📚lore_discussion

[solid ibex]

both Syndra and the Queen when talking personally to the player "The answer has always been in front of me" smth like that
although Syndra's is probably not directly to the player, shes still talking to the player bout it

[narrow kestrel]

She's talking about magic

She's been avoiding the shit like the plague when it was literally free

Even Sui mentions it after True Colors

[slender copper]

I do also want to mention that the "Reach into the Bottomless Well" dialog in Apotheosis likely refers to the something within the player then the player itself. So it's likely that the Player isn't responsible for this (since if they were, that would completely destroy them being a self insert)

[narrow kestrel]

I don't wanna believe player is a self insert

💔

please let player be a real character

if it becomes a self insert, hollow serenity will be the last quest where our choices meant shit

[solid ibex]

its kind of both

we have dialogue options to set in the player's personality ourselves

at the same time the player has their own shenanigans going that we still have no clue about

[slender copper]

I do believe it's called "player character is up to our interpretation however is separate from the person playing the player character"? Perhaps saying "self insert" is a bit confusing lol.

[solid ibex]

yeah that quote is the most sense to make out of what they are going for with the player

[lavish knot]

Self insert and blank slate kinda exist in an awkward grey area

I'd moreso see the Wynncraft Player as an up to interpretation character

[slim belfry]

it's pretty blank slate with the whole dang character menu lol

"All beginnings start with a choice. Who will you be? Only you can decide."

[regal spire]

“Guys, what’s the strongest class?”

[formal bridge]

I think Player Insert is going to be like a skyrim/oblivion/that kind of open RPG genre kind of protagonist

[slim belfry]

😭

[formal bridge]

Our general past and events and personality are up to interpretation and whatever we want to say based on our choices

our one special thing that Anathema noticed happened to us

And now we're here

[lavish knot]

Player is checking the class rankings pre amnesia

[hybrid gazelle]

The only way to prove that player is not self insert is when there are romance invovle

[slender copper]

As in the player having feeling for someone?

[regal spire]

I still like to believe that our player has a past completely up to the interpretation of anyone, but once we (yes, you and me) joined Wynn, whatever void that’s in the player completely wiped their existence/past from reality, and left what was basically a wandering husk in Fruma, until an Inquisitor noticed us, and sent us to Wynn

[hybrid gazelle]

No any romance invovle

Because we all know wynncraft player is unlovable human being

So it likely that ct would never make romance for them if they want to keep player as self insert

[regal spire]

Not if you nickname yourself “Casanova”

[hybrid gazelle]

This is why beyond the grave is non canon fr

[slim belfry]

lexnt witnessing the horrors of what people said the other day

[hybrid gazelle]

Because that imply player is likable enough that concept of death want to keep them alive

[regal spire]

When will they let us activate “smooch mode” so we can smooch every character and boss

[hybrid gazelle]

And we all know all Wynnex player are unlikable

[slim belfry]

GOSH?

[slender copper]

And another thing, the player character has yet to grow any feelings past "we're friends" when it comes to the NPCs they interact with.

[regal spire]

We fuck wit look outside

[slim belfry]

or not friends

wonder how they'll deal with tasim after fruma

we got people that are friends with him again and those that aren't and want him to die

[formal bridge]

I assume he'll continue to be in the storyline itself

[slender copper]

As in with relationships, but yeah that too (the non-friends are beaten to death)

[regal spire]

I like that every relationship we (more exclusive to the player, less understood by multiple people) is entirely surface level

[solid ibex]

by any means, the player is considered beautiful by the skyraiders

or they just heavily glazing

[formal bridge]

I think it fits for the player's psychology and the writing tbh

[solid ibex]

or have different standards

[regal spire]

Tasim seemed to care about us, but we never took the initiative to follow em fr

[formal bridge]

considering how vehemently we try not to ever even risk losing Tasim

Our little player is so lonely

[regal spire]

Aledar’s care for us is only more so prominent when someone else is involved, or when he’s dying lol

[formal bridge]

Hopefully a rewrite of the earlier quests develop those relationships more

[regal spire]

Lari’s relationship with us is as surface level as possible, so nothing to pull from there. We’re/She is essentially a tool, and barely an “Achara”

[lavish knot]

I wish we get to see Tasim in Gavel

[slender copper]

Tbf we don't get a lot of Aledar or Tasim interactions mid game.

[solid ibex]

planned

for the later reworks iirc

[formal bridge]

Yeah it's very clearly planned

[vestal rivet]

do we know what that word means specifically or do we only have the context guesses

[regal spire]

It means friend ig

[formal bridge]

i see the spider dungeon as a blueprint for future reworked quests and maybe dungeons in general in future

Just giving them more personal connection to the player

[regal spire]

I don’t speak Gaelic, or understand it, but it translates to friend

[hybrid gazelle]

this quest should be non canon then

[solid ibex]

LMFAO

[vestal rivet]

I bet High Gavellian was originally just Elven
and the writing system was adopted by most of the rest of Gavel, barring the Doguns

[hybrid gazelle]

NO WAY IN HELL wynncraft players describe as beautiful by a group of pirate women

this is not real

[regal spire]

Even the ones we have are entirely objective driven (on our end), regardless of whether or not it’s personally driven by a character

[vestal rivet]

I'm pretty sure half of them are meant to be "dumb blonde" stereotypes too

[solid ibex]

if its wynncraft players hell yeah

[hybrid gazelle]

what does salted mean by this

[solid ibex]

but the player itself when not considering the skin they are wearing

[vestal rivet]

Salted has-

[solid ibex]

itself?

[hybrid gazelle]

srly what was the plan with Skyraider

[solid ibex]

themself

[hybrid gazelle]

what was the fucking plain

[solid ibex]

wow i called the player it

[hybrid gazelle]

with skyraider

[slender copper]

So... every quest? /j

[hybrid gazelle]

the though process of making skyraider

[vestal rivet]

women group

[formal bridge]

Well it's not that personal. From what I'm finding it's more just a general polite way to refer to someone

[vestal rivet]

that was the plan
group of women

nothing else

[formal bridge]

so Lari is basically just going "hey, you sir/madam, help me out here"

[vestal rivet]

no logic no story

[solid ibex]

they doubled down and added a bunch of stuff as trinkets where you talk to skyraiders and get shit

[hybrid gazelle]

Gavel writers dev when they realize that they can just write character as a women instead of making entier group that is about being a women

[solid ibex]

like the egg where you have to walk lots of blocks before it hatches

[regal spire]

I must have a different definition of friend, lol. Friends always been a general terminology for acquaintance, for me

[solid ibex]

the player does absolutely nothing in their position as queen of skyraiders LMFAO

[regal spire]

Yeah, lmao

[formal bridge]

I meant moreso in the irish language that's the use case for it

Like you could say to a stranger "hey friend, mind helping me out?" but that doesn't mean you know them personally that well

[solid ibex]

MR BEAST

[hybrid gazelle]

MR BEAST

[vestal rivet]

iirc it's acknowledged elsewhere that the Skyraiders have a new queen

[unique jungle]

free money no wayt

[vestal rivet]

Mist, or Beast

[slim belfry]

oh my gosh the beast of capitalism

[unique jungle]

beast all the way

[hasty beacon]

Do skyraiders reproduce via mitosis?

[hybrid gazelle]

THIS WILL BE BROUGHT IN DERN

[unique jungle]

mist is whatever

[hybrid gazelle]

With Qira's slave army and our women army

[hybrid gazelle]

we storm Nexus of Dern

[hybrid gazelle]

Holy shit

[regal spire]

Yu, mon, ova ‘ere

[formal bridge]

Hopefully the sky pirates get at least... something to do with an eventual Ahms region rewrite

[hybrid gazelle]

the Triple Y

[unique jungle]

the player is like genshins traveller but nothing they do is ever mentioned again

[formal bridge]

Cause at the moment there's literally nothing to do there, it's just Gylia plains again but with more holes in the ground

[swift gale]

what is aledars canonical alchemy prof level

[vestal rivet]

the farther east you get in gavel the more its lore falls apart I think

[solid ibex]

recent reworks have been triyng to go away from this

[hybrid gazelle]

@mossy widget omg meefy if you think about it they are like the 3 brotheres are like sonic underground

[solid ibex]

but yeah barely anyone would acknowledge the fact that the player has saved wynn and gavel so much times

[unique jungle]

i dont think theres anything inherently problematic honestly but

[slender copper]

Ah, my favorite characters... all started with "Yu" lol

[unique jungle]

aside from large scale "player has done a lot"

[slim belfry]

need more random npcs going
wait... I've heard of you

[unique jungle]

aside from the fact player could have done nothing and have this be their like fifth quest

[solid ibex]

fruman npc: arent you that mass murderer

[regal spire]

Wait a minute… I’ve seen you in a cave

[hasty beacon]

They couldnt afford more prefixes, thats the roughworks for ya

[slim belfry]

I think post-fruma will definitely get player more attention though

[regal spire]

wtf, I’ve seen you kill some random farmer’s cows

[formal bridge]

For the stiff nature of the old design of wynn in the Breaking Point, it felt very satisfying to have your activities actually acknowledged lmao

[vestal rivet]

Thanos Depository starting NPC has changing dialogue depending on whether or not you've done D&D4 and/or finished the Qira Hive

[unique jungle]

ive seen you in that sheep pen outside detlas

[slim belfry]

yeah I recall that

[vestal rivet]

all I can think of that actually changes for the player

[regal spire]

wtf were you doing in the fountain

[slim belfry]

hey you beat up the Qira lady

[unique jungle]

wtf were you doing to the fountain

freak

get away from me

really killed chat with that one

[slim belfry]

find it funny the dwarves dont really know Qira while a villager army tried to attack the hive

[hybrid gazelle]

I mean

she is beast of missing contents

[slim belfry]

wait wait wait

[hybrid gazelle]

ofc they would not know her because the content that contain them acknowledge her is not in the game

[slim belfry]

villagers hate her because her vouchers hold more value than emeralds

[hybrid gazelle]

holy shit

I will be real man I

half of Qira's army get solo by unarmed sterotype asian man

I dont think they can beat army's artillery if that the case

but IDK man that asian man got that uhhh

[solid ibex]

villagers geniunely think gavel was promised to them 3000 years ago

[hybrid gazelle]

Kung fu style that design to specifically destroy Qira's army or something

Qira's army realizing that they up against the only asian rep in the entire game so they cant afford killing him

pre fruma ofc

[slim belfry]

this does NOT help with the villager rep oh my gosh

[formal bridge]

Yeah let's just

Not

No thanks on that one

[hybrid gazelle]

hwo Gavel writers felt when they make villagers entire personality being racist

[unique jungle]

was it?

[hybrid gazelle]

that shit is liek what if Fruma entire personality is they hate magic

[slim belfry]

villagers try not to be a certain representation challenge (impossible)

[formal bridge]

fruma if it was released years ago

[hasty beacon]

I think thats just on notch

[hybrid gazelle]

Have jewish sterotype in the game because they base the game on minecraft
Make them more racist and stealing territory from other spieces

What did Salted mean by this

[solid ibex]

probably not but they so similar to a certian representation you might as well think they had that going around

[slender copper]

Very glad they let it bake in the oven and actually brought it out when it's ready.

[formal bridge]

I think it's really just

[slim belfry]

there was a whole thing about villagers being a scapegoat for decay due to their greed

[formal bridge]

The early CT working off of "what would minecraft villagers be like in this fantasy world"

Cause villagers are played up to be greedy and irritable in minecraft content usually

But that's uh, not from a good place

[hasty beacon]

Early ct was certainly something alright

[formal bridge]

Which is why I advocate for completely replacing them in the game with anything else

[slim belfry]

yeah glad they're steering away from that

[hybrid gazelle]

Fruma if it was release years ago would contain shit like

The Great Fruma World
The Ching Division
The Great Dragon Empress
The Fruman Dynasty

[slim belfry]

fruma also solely being an ATLA reference

[hasty beacon]

Zhiraoks gotta restore his honor yknow

[slim belfry]

GOSH TRUE

[hybrid gazelle]

They gonna have a character named LingLong and they are the main companion for the player who has slightly yellow skin and slit eyes
(This is old man matyrn skin)

[hasty beacon]

Now how would gavel look if it was released today

[formal bridge]

Good

[hybrid gazelle]

half the size of WYnn but it actually good

[slim belfry]

beautiful

[hasty beacon]

50,000 years to develop and release

[formal bridge]

We'd probably at least get some idea of how the entire region actually functions governmentally

[slim belfry]

modern epic gavel theme is gonna be hype

[formal bridge]

beyond one mayor in the swamp town

[slim belfry]

we already have some idea

[hybrid gazelle]

Back then when Fruma was unrelease

the only asian rep in the game

is that one fucking area in canyon

you know what I am talking about

[slim belfry]

the dojo or the once again another ATLA reference

[hybrid gazelle]

I think it base on karate kid

or some shit

IDK

[slim belfry]

then dojo yeah

[slender copper]

What's ATLA btw?

[slim belfry]

the karate kid reference

[slim belfry]

avatar the last airbender

[hybrid gazelle]

look

I know avatar is a great show

probably

[hasty beacon]

It is

[slim belfry]

I like it it's great

[hybrid gazelle]

I never get to watch it

but damn wynncraft really love referencing it back then

[slim belfry]

I think a few times is fine but I like to see what wynn comes up with on its own

hence fruma being really good

[hybrid gazelle]

acutally

is there any limbus company referencei n wynncraft

[slim belfry]

I can't answer idk that

[hybrid gazelle]

LIMBUS COMPANY

[slender copper]

o_o the what company?

[hybrid gazelle]

it's a game where you manage group of lunatics from killing each other

and every character is named after well known literature

[slim belfry]

ohhhhhhhhh

that's why they're named that way

[slender copper]

The one where you need to stay inside because the sun will kill you?

[hybrid gazelle]

no

[slender copper]

oh

[hybrid gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/limbus-company-gif-17719505235537059258

[hybrid gazelle]

the character by the name of Vergilius is ABSOLUTELY not reference to a character named Vergil from Dante's Inferno

and he ABSOLUTELY not a guide to another character named Dante who is ALSO not reference from the hit single literature, Dante's inferno

[slender copper]

Hm... Houseof Leaves

[hybrid gazelle]

House of Leaves probably reference there or something

I haven ot get to it yet

and I dont read

[slender copper]

...Guess you use text to speech when on Discord?

[hasty beacon]

Who doesnt

[hybrid gazelle]

and in Limbus Company you get to fight bug people, KKK, and total opposite of US healthcare

[slender copper]

I don't.

[hasty beacon]

I jest

[slender copper]

So health care at reasonable prices/free?

[hasty beacon]

Free ambulance rides

[hybrid gazelle]

No it like health care but the source if from the world's suffering

actually no it not free health care thinking about it

yeah it not

so just US healthcare

[slender copper]

lol

[slim belfry]

that's basically the same as funding it with money

[slender copper]

cries in Floridian

[hybrid gazelle]

they record people getting brutally rip apart and show it to the EYE and that how they get the healthcare

[slim belfry]

well uh

that's not the same as money then

[hybrid gazelle]

One of the main character favorite food is hot dog

I want to say that because like

it's measurement of the level of unhinge of these cast

that one of them see hot dog as their soul food

[formal bridge]

hot dogs taste like garbage in a tube so I can see why that is an indication of insanity

[split night]

Guardian of the forest smoking canned abis

[manic kraken]

nice

now make this orphion smoking canned abis

or saphanis

or acc no make it anathema

[formal bridge]

Anathema smoking canned abis to deal with only having like, 2 competent sovereigns

[hybrid gazelle]

Majin "competent" with his job

it just he do nothing to go and beyond

which is like

fucking nothing for a man of his status

it just GOOD enough to keep the queen content

but it not necessery improve Fruma in anwyay

[manic kraken]

bro what episode does majin get brutally mauled by mountain lions

[zenith coral]

majin emits a field of cosmic insanity turning people around him into oblivion npcs

cue shanenigans

[manic kraken]

can we like genuinely give him the gojo treatment

[potent isle]

Did they re-add the Tell Aledar about Tasim option yet

[zenith coral]

majin stuck with a bunch of oblivion npcs could be a hell of its own

every fruma guard is an oblivion level psycho

[wide ibex]

no

[zenith coral]

https://giphy.com/gifs/thought-oblivion-tes-q2vnZ5sIuL5Di

[potent isle]

are they still planning on doing so

[zenith coral]

the average oblivion conversation majin has to suffer through

[wide ibex]

i did ajb and ajf a few days ago and there is no such options

[zenith coral]

theyll add it with the wastelands alogn with the ewpilogue ig

[potent isle]

alright

[zenith coral]

wait a year

[potent isle]

thanks for letting me know

[zenith coral]

or maybe not im speculating

[wide ibex]

it will take them oblivion to retouch those old quests that have no signficants in the lore

[zenith coral]

could be tomorrow for all i know

[wide ibex]

they are just reconnecting the dots base on what came after all those quests were made years ago

i dont have faith in them retouching many quests to address the relationship between aledar and tasim prior ajb and fruma quests

they have been lazy in quest writing

they will continue to be

[drifting aurora]

i think you flipped these two

no it hasnt been added yet, yes its still in the works

[potent isle]

whoops yeah i meant tell tasim about aledar thanks

[drifting aurora]

ok lol

[potent isle]

cool thanks for letting me know

[wide ibex]

i dont have good faith but ill see

[dim plover]

Imagine a way to make Tasim be the lead for the SE questline instead

And then we go with Aledar to Fruma

They have the exact same dialogue except the names mentioned are swapped

[drifting aurora]

🤔

[dim plover]

(This is a reference to the fact that picking either of them didn’t actually matter in Arachnid’s Ascent)

[astral void]

I think it would be a VERY different story if Aledar went to Fruma instead of Tasim

Because of that one flash back from recover the past, Aledar was running from something

Maybe Rex's brother was Aledar all along

[dim plover]

Btw is AHC meant to be fabricated by the Darkness rather than an accurate diversion of events

Because given recent events Tasim reacted way too little to us killing Aledar first in the fight

[astral void]

But I think this wouldn't be true because i'm pretty sure pissing Tasim off is enough and we prolly don't need another "You killed my significant other therefore we are friends no longer" situation

[formal bridge]

I mean at this point AHC basically is completely noncanon because it makes no sense and ties into literally nothing

But yeah it's definitely fabricated as well

Which means the darkness has like, a ton of faith in maxie's abilities for some reason lmao

[limber swan]

Fruma's storyline would be VERY different if Aledar was involved

[formal bridge]

The interesting thing is that Aledar never got his memories back either, even to a small degree like Tasim, Caid, and what's his name super sniper

[limber swan]

lol imagine if he did though

[formal bridge]

I think it'd be interesting in this AU if Aledar still joined up with the Sovereigns

[slim belfry]

the player goes into fruma and it's already under a civil war lol

[limber swan]

nah

[formal bridge]

He's very mission oriented from the SE quests though

I feel if he was told the whole situation he might join up with the queen

[manic kraken]

uh uh

aledar aint no snitch

[formal bridge]

Why though

[manic kraken]

he a real one

[formal bridge]

We don't know why he rebelled to begin with, and he wouldn't have his memories back

[manic kraken]

aledar isnt a chud tasim

hes a chad aledar

[formal bridge]

Ok

[drifting aurora]

tbh i dont think aledar would get selected in the first place

[manic kraken]

he aint gonna break down over hearing that we sacrificed tasim for the mission

he knows it was needed

[drifting aurora]

during the tournament i mean

[formal bridge]

Oh yeah him getting selected would be dubious for sure lmao

[limber swan]

of course he wouldn't

Tasim would still be selected

[manic kraken]

absolute massacre

[formal bridge]

He's a bit too strong willed for the queen's liking

But I do think he'd at least be tempted if the queen explained the situation

[drifting aurora]

no i mean in a scenario where he's in fruma instead of tasim

[formal bridge]

She just wouldn't choose him to begin with lmao

[limber swan]

oh

in that case would the queen select anyone?

[manic kraken]

putting him in first place would be like the obvious result of setting a pitbull named cupcake loose in a children's playground

[tame igloo]

so is the queen a physical representation of war
like how orphion is light, the eye is dark, and anni is corruption?

[limber swan]

clearly we aren't a good option

[formal bridge]

Anni is not corruption

[limber swan]

so who would she choose

[formal bridge]

Anni is one of many devils in the corruption realm

[drifting aurora]

shrug

[tame igloo]

idk man I'm guessing based on limited knowledge
I haven't finished the questline yet

[manic kraken]

anathema is the beast of war

[gloomy idol]

bro might have some things mixed up

[formal bridge]

The queen is corruption and by extension war

[manic kraken]

corruption is just one of the many forms of war taking place in the realm of influence

[gloomy idol]

Oh maybe get out of spoilers ngl

[formal bridge]

I assume in this aledar swap AU, realistically, nobody gets chosen

[tame igloo]

no no I want some answers

[manic kraken]

corruption is just one of war's many extensions i thought?

[formal bridge]

I mean I gave the answer lmao

[gloomy idol]

In any case I think the Dern Beast has already been mentioned in name as the beast of darkness the same way that orphion is light

not the eye (which is dern beast's eye)

[drifting aurora]

i think player gets picked is the most interesting way to think about it

[slim belfry]

anni isn't a realm beast

the queen is corruption

[formal bridge]

yeah the player is really the only option left if the Queen needs to pick a sovereign out of the tournament

Blank Slate is better than a bunch of randos quite frankly

[manic kraken]

i think anni is just a relative beast to begin with, like a henchmen

somewhat like how the founder titan -colossal titan relationship works

[drifting aurora]

corruption = war

theyre the same thing

[manic kraken]

there just exists a bunch of annis in the realm of war and anathema is just the beast of war

[drifting aurora]

Effectively

[tame igloo]

okay

[vapid path]

Eh I mean it’s clear the queen doesn’t really have control over Annie’s or any inherent creatures of corruption

[formal bridge]

We still haven't been told of why the queen chose Tasim to begin with so it's not clear if she'd choose the player

We still have no clue what Tasim's blessing was

[limber swan]

it would be yeah, the queen choosing the player knowing the player won't be loyal to her

[vapid path]

So it’s more like they’re all just unconscious offshoots or cancers of war

[slim belfry]

what if the player is very insistent in this theoretical alt route

[limber swan]

question is how would the players blessing work

[drifting aurora]

doesnt super matter because we're already straying from canon significantly

i honestly dont care much what happens with the player in this scenario because its mostly about what happens with aledar

[slim belfry]

100 extra skill points to leave up to interpretation

[manic kraken]

theyre her dysfunctional children running amok throughout the household

[vapid path]

lol I like that picture

[limber swan]

Aledar meeting the leaves and not remembering them would be so sad

[manic kraken]

or walking very slowly in the realm of war in this case

[slim belfry]

Aledar??? You're alive???

[manic kraken]

in case yall havent payed attention to the landscapes outside of the realm of war during the WTP raid

[limber swan]

"Huh!?"

[manic kraken]

ptsd bruh don remind me what i did to him 😭

[formal bridge]

The blessing take on the shape of whoever receives it in terms of personality more than anything else, so if the player got one it would probably be like... black holes or something. Since emptiness and a lack of something is used often in description of the player. Being able to erase things out of existence

https://tenor.com/view/crying-emoji-gif-21922016

the player to enemies after getting blessed

Or to go with less OP powers maybe just perma invisibilty

the true shadestepper buff

[drifting aurora]

i actually think i Know what player's blessing would be, but i cannot tell you

[slim belfry]

scary

[formal bridge]

squints

[limber swan]

not yet at least

[formal bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-suspicious-stare-reaction-gif-gif-26297876

[chilly tulip]

The blessing the player would’ve gotten is called “/op”

[drifting aurora]

truth nuke

[slim belfry]

admin rank blessing

[formal bridge]

The player just turns into steve from smash bros

[slim belfry]

Tasim Wynncraft for smah

[chilly tulip]

Oh god I wouldn’t wish that on anyone

I’d feel bad for anyone we fought if we were Steve

[formal bridge]

https://tenor.com/view/stfu-steve-link-minecraft-smash-bros-gif-6596165115984375085

[dim plover]

The player’s blessing will be +50% spell damage +75% main attack damage +10/5s mana regen +100 elemental defence

[slim belfry]

TRUE

[formal bridge]

the player's blessing is the secret 9th item in the morph set, the morph weapon

[chilly tulip]

Wait do we know what group Aledar was a member of in Fruma? I don’t remember finding any dialogue or clues hinting towards anything

[formal bridge]

He was a rebel in Auburn, he was a leaf

[chilly tulip]

Seemed a lot more proactive than the Leaves though

[formal bridge]

Tbf if he was the secondary leader it makes sense they'd be a bit aimless with him gone

[drifting aurora]

there is one interaction that tells you outright

[brittle prism]

Is the portal to the realm of balance/peace/restoration/tranquility/harmony/serenity/renewal/equilibrium/firmness/order in Bloomi?

[hybrid gazelle]

who the fuck is Aledar man

[formal bridge]

Syndra only really cares about the matter of keeping her family safe when fruma storyline starts

[drifting aurora]

if you progress to ensemble you get locked out of it

[chilly tulip]

Huh

I must’ve missed it then

[hybrid gazelle]

okay to explain

pre ensemble

you can go to one section of the leaves base in Auburn

where you would be able to talk to Kaio at the graveyard

which then lead to relevation that Aledar was the member of the leaves

that the rough summary of it

[chilly tulip]

Huh

[hybrid gazelle]

there are more info about how Aledar do in the group but overall he pretty active

[chilly tulip]

I’ll make sure to check that out on another character then

[hybrid gazelle]

and the flashback in RTP was one of his stunt he pull attempting to get into Zhiraok's office

also this is just hyper speculation with no concrete evidence

but you can take Zeph highly competitive nature with his racing as something he got from Aledar

since ALedar also competitve as the first thing he do in King's recruit to try to race Tasim and the player

[chilly tulip]

That would make sense

[gloomy idol]

W reading comprehension in wynncraft?

[hybrid gazelle]

but again huge speculation buti t just possiblity of ALedar being sorta adoptive big bro to Zeph

[mossy widget]

weep

[signal bough]

I mean, they ARE both assassins

[hybrid gazelle]

and also Zeph mention how someone made a dummy for him if you talk to him post Cursed one

he did not name

[formal bridge]

Which funnily enough means that the player effectively replaces Aledar without even realizing it

[hybrid gazelle]

but from the first hint, we can clue in that it could be Aledar being the one that made Zeph the dummy

again

[formal bridge]

gets close with Zeph, helps push the group forward, active against the crown

[hybrid gazelle]

HUGE speculation

[chilly tulip]

I wonder how much time has passed in the story, because I would’ve expected at least a slip up or two mentioning Aledar in some Leaves dialogue depending on the length of time

[hybrid gazelle]

the thing is that

in the story there is 0 oppurnity for Aledar to be brought up

cause to the leaves, he is a dead man

[gloomy idol]

is it 1001 ap yet

[formal bridge]

Timeline is always slippery in Wynn and we don't know how long prisoners are held pre exile

[hybrid gazelle]

IDK

it either 1000 or 1001

it does not really matter

[formal bridge]

But considering that the only one who knows Aledar is the player

and the player is so vehemently against mentioning him even to Tasim, their besto friendo

No way are they going to bring it up to the leaves, even over the course of getting to know them

[hybrid gazelle]

there just 0 oppurnity to mention Aledar from both player side and the leaves side

[formal bridge]

The player is MEGA traumatized

[signal bough]

I think Sui could mention it after echoes

[formal bridge]

And the leaves aren't going to want to talk about their exiled maybe dead in a prison cell friend of theirs

[mossy widget]

tbh in the grave dialogue with kaio he mentions that they lose a lot of people so it seems routine. likely reasoning for them not mentioning aledar at all cause they've lost so many people

[formal bridge]

I think having some epilogue dialogue about it whenever butterfly effect comes out would make sense

[slim belfry]

yeah wondered this since leaves seems pretty small for what they are

[formal bridge]

But so far in the story there's never really a point it would get brought up with how badly it affected the player

[hybrid gazelle]

the leaves are actually bigger but the main one are the one we goes along the way

[formal bridge]

If we assume that the quests happen roughly sequentially level wise, Aledar would have literally just died pre Fruma

[hybrid gazelle]

some people of Auburn do suppor tthe leaves

[slim belfry]

ohhhh

ok

explains why the queen might as well flood auburn whole

[formal bridge]

Yeah the sense of scale isn't quite easy to grasp since we only see a handful but they are larger than just the main 5 or so we see

[hybrid gazelle]

the one we have as a group is just the outcast that have no place to go

[formal bridge]

they're also really the only 5 doing anything since the rest don't have much motivation to do so. Sure they're poor in Auburn but there isn't quite as much need to do anything

That's why Syndra was sitting on her thumbs for however long pretending to be a spy til the player shows up and gives them magic

The queen just decided to flood it all since she was like "f it, they have magic now, gotta start over again to make sure nobody does this anymore"

[chilly tulip]

More like “They got magic again?! HOW?! WHY DOES THIS HAPPEN EVER SINGLE TIME?! SCREW IT, FLOOD TIME”

But yeah I hope we get some elaboration on Aledar in epilogue stuff, especially if Tasim is sticking around

That would probably be the most natural way to bring it up

[formal bridge]

I'm personally looking forward to the PC getting more expanded dialogue like we've had in fruma

[chilly tulip]

Yeah that was weird when I first played

[formal bridge]

i want to learn more of the traumatized bean, even if we're keeping it mostly vague

[signal bough]

huh, I don't think Rex needed to have lost her arm/die

[formal bridge]

I like it personally

[chilly tulip]

Did the PC ever get dialogue before Fruma?

I love it honestly

[formal bridge]

Nothing beyond the dialogue options

we were going Link style

[signal bough]

yeah, there would be a couple prompts and dialogue options rarely

[formal bridge]

I think it works, it just really feels a bit much when you also have the zhiraok scene immediately after

Having Tasim actually do something f-ed up besides being a sovereign works better for his character

[chilly tulip]

If the whole story has happened during 1000AP, that means literally everything the PC goes through happened in a year

[formal bridge]

But then Zhiraok falling over dead just kinda doubles up on the same type of emotional beat

[chilly tulip]

Like they’ve gone through more than basically everything other recruit pressumably

[signal bough]

yeah, but Rex could have theoretically focused on defending herself cause the player can come back from the dead(as long as that quest's still in the game it's canon)

if only the player told the leaves

[formal bridge]

the player arriving in Fruma after just going through every single quest in the game watching so many people die in front of them or betray them

[signal bough]

but the CT prob thought it was stupid

[drifting aurora]

we are not writing things with this in mind because we plan on changing it lol

[signal bough]

it's in-vogue

[formal bridge]

death quest hanging over the shredder by a string ready to be cut down at any time lmao

[chilly tulip]

“Oh forgot to mention, on top of being capable of fighting gods I also can’t die. I’m friends with Death so I just pop back in like nothing happened. Forgot to mention that earlier I guess.”

[signal bough]

rain world. subnautica 2

[drifting aurora]

quest'll stay, its just a one-time occurrence where you die and get revived

[chilly tulip]

That makes more sense

[signal bough]

Death does say you need to kill what killed you

[light zealot]

That is great (because that quest is so weird - like why does that random creature in the mountains permakill you when nothing else can)

[drifting aurora]

which will be justified in plot etc etc

[light zealot]

I'd understand for something like The Eye or whatever

[hybrid gazelle]

Lexnt, can krolton blitz through Her Majesty

[light zealot]

But a random creature in the Canyon of the Lost?

[formal bridge]

Tbf you also get donked over the head and get KOed instantly in multiple quests so it's probably just story over game mechanics

[hybrid gazelle]

Her Majesty when Krolton came back from the dead

https://tenor.com/view/punk-megamind-animation-metro-man-megamind-nemesis-gif-17788637

[drifting aurora]

krolton's just built different

[hybrid gazelle]

Where does this place Krolton is power scaling

if we go by sucess rate

[formal bridge]

I do hope there's at least a bit of writing change to better fit it when the quest gets revamped lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

Krolton is at the top
while the 4 orcs following the second
with Ardulf at the third

THIS IS OBJECTIVELY TRUE POWERSCALING TIER

NOTHING ELSE

[formal bridge]

Like, at the moment I just assume Krolton is a especially powerful bit of decay that slipped over into the canyon by just being strong enough to do so

[drifting aurora]

krolton is not decay

[hybrid gazelle]

IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THIS POWER SCALING TIER, YOU DID NOT PLAY THE GAME AND ILLITERATE

[signal bough]

will the quest be tied into the festival of the spirits at all

[formal bridge]

Wel i guess they're just a weird little guy then

I don't think any festivals are ever getting tied into main quests

I wouldn't want to have to wait for a specific month to understand the story lmao

[drifting aurora]

um. no? festival of the spirits ties into beyond the grave, not the other way around

it's supplemental but it builds off of the baseline that beyond the grave sets

[chilly tulip]

Especially if you have all the SE stuff happening sequentially. Like you go in with a party, almost everyone dies, you have to deal with nearly losing your soul, your friend dies, you fight an aspect of one your reality’s gods, you go through whatever the hell AHC is, and also fight something that tearing reality apart in the Void

[signal bough]

eh, okay

[hybrid gazelle]

Lexnt why dont play bring 4 orcs into fruma to steam roll everything?

[chilly tulip]

That probably took a toll on the player a bit

[hybrid gazelle]

are they stupid?

[drifting aurora]

you forgot gikyo

[formal bridge]

Fruma also requires RoL as a prerequesite

[hybrid gazelle]

the 4 orcs when Gikyo copy them and split into 12 orcs

[formal bridge]

So the player probablt was starting to get close to Lari as a friend only for her to get chucked into the dern dimension and horribly die

[hybrid gazelle]

holy shit true

GIKYO AT THE THIRD PLACE

[chilly tulip]

Eh she might not be dead

Yet

[hybrid gazelle]

acutally no wait

[signal bough]

the funny elf girl is 100% still alive

[hybrid gazelle]

Gikyo single handedly knock the player out

[formal bridge]

Something horrible happens at least lmao

[worldly raft]

Are we ever gonna get the ability to talk with the leafs after completing the raid?

[hybrid gazelle]

so Gikyo would be at the second

[formal bridge]

We hear her screaming in terror effectively

[drifting aurora]

probably

[formal bridge]

so the player is still going to wind up f-ed in the head as a result of that too

[chilly tulip]

Yeah, she ended up in Hypixel Skyblock

[hybrid gazelle]

So here the OBJECTIVELY TRUE power sclaing list

1. Krolton
2. Gikyo
3. 4 Orcs
4. Ardulf
5. Her Majesty(I guess...)

[chilly tulip]

Truely the most evil and demented place possible

[signal bough]

saw some cool art with her with a scar over her eye

[drifting aurora]

we 100% will have an epilogue eventually, once we're done with it. we would like to do smaller dialogue interactions in the meantime, but thats more up in the air

[formal bridge]

Yeah I don't blame the time it's being taken to finish it up

[chilly tulip]

I’m just happy we got Fruma

[formal bridge]

It's not like there's any intricate dialogue systems like that anywhere else in the game after all

[hybrid gazelle]

Alt routei s not lost media,,,

[formal bridge]

Alt route is in the oven still lmao

[signal bough]

and it was amazing

[hybrid gazelle]

Lexnt you wrote 50+ pages of post raid dialogue

[formal bridge]

I just assume it's weird implementation that's making it hard to reintroduce

[signal bough]

wynncraft would be crazy with the same standard of content

[hybrid gazelle]

but at what cost, Lexnt

what what cost

WHAT WILL YOU HAVE AFTER 5000 DIALOGUE IN THE POST RAID

[signal bough]

I want to see post-fruma selchar

[drifting aurora]

nah, its primarily post-fruma burnout making it difficult to finish writing

[formal bridge]

Fair enough lmao

[drifting aurora]

the implementation is probably the simplest part of it

[hybrid gazelle]

reminder that Lexnt is the one who wrote the post raid dialogue tree branch

which contain like

[formal bridge]

Yeah very understandable lmao

With every fruma cutscene being like

[chilly tulip]

This also means the the player at the very least probably took care of the Grootslangs, did a majority of the Light/Dark Forest quests, and learned about how the fundamental forces of the universe are fighting over who gets to own the world and everyone is stuck in the middle of it

[formal bridge]

52 message tree dialogue at minimum

[hybrid gazelle]

the entire post raid dialogue that being in the google doc rn have 4 main option with branching options along the way

[formal bridge]

I assume there's a writing fatigue lmao

[drifting aurora]

5

[formal bridge]

So no worries on taking a bit of a breather afterward

[hybrid gazelle]

damn 5

[signal bough]

Queen's Recruit does have a LOT of people from the past

[mossy widget]

the past you say ? are we um. recovering it

[drifting aurora]

god. ensemble of hope is the quest that did this the most for me lol, it ended up being a lot more dialogue heavy than anticipated

[signal bough]

so every quest that they were in, the player did

[signal bough]

absolutely.

[hybrid gazelle]

Lenxt you should have take cautionary tale from Syndra story

[mossy widget]

hmmm good yes good

[hybrid gazelle]

now you are reckless and burn yourself out

[formal bridge]

I'm pretty sure canon wise the player does every quest

[chilly tulip]

I mean we could probably assume the player did everything before Fruma

[drifting aurora]

❌

[chilly tulip]

Including dungeons and raids

[formal bridge]

except the maybe kind of noncanon ones that will get rewritten eventually

[mossy widget]

lexnt listen to yhe messages in ur own story plz

🙏

[hybrid gazelle]

yet another writer not listening to their own story,,,,

[chilly tulip]

So throw in the Colossus too

And stopping like two wars

[drifting aurora]

no

[chilly tulip]

Technically three I think

[formal bridge]

the true greatest tragedy for the player was missing maxie's wedding

[mossy widget]

but Y

[chilly tulip]

Indeed

[formal bridge]

That's what broke them

[hybrid gazelle]

Lexnt told me to take a break from ROL rewrite because I was stressing the fuck out while she write whole ass dialogue branch for Anathema

[signal bough]

the player also doesn't need to eat, drink, or sleep, and no one's ever commented on smell or blood covering your armor so presumably also self-cleans

[drifting aurora]

i think we should emulate every one of the queen's decisions

[mossy widget]

on it boss

any one know where i can buy. a mother of all bombs

[hybrid gazelle]

okay I will start a dictatorian regime

brb

[formal bridge]

Time to be fascist

[signal bough]

bloons

[formal bridge]

I already live in the US so

[signal bough]

when will the option of giving Sui a highland spring water in overture to despair be added

[chilly tulip]

I imagine the player does this whoever camping during travel or resting at a city

[formal bridge]

when can we get a pokemon style camp feature where we have all our pets hang out and play with toys and eat curry with us

[chilly tulip]

I would love that

[formal bridge]

the player's sanity is hanging by a thread made of adorable wybels

[chilly tulip]

And a raccoon

[signal bough]

what about the canon fish tacos

[chilly tulip]

Don’t forget the raccoon

[formal bridge]

And also baby anathema

That one might strain canon a little bit

[chilly tulip]

And a mirror

[formal bridge]

and baby orphion

[signal bough]

and aledar in a cart

[formal bridge]

He didn't make us a scion but he did give us a baby deer

[chilly tulip]

Are we sure it’s not just Aledars body

[hybrid gazelle]

the fact that Sui actually eat this is story telling indicate of how far she fallen

[chilly tulip]

That would be even more sad

[formal bridge]

the player hiding aledar's corpse behind their legs whenever talking to Tasim

[chilly tulip]

It’s a client side hallucination, the player can’t let go

But yeah I would go crazy too if I found out the the force destroying an entire continent is just a byproduct of two gods fighting

Like it wasn’t even intentional which makes it worse

[formal bridge]

I mean that's basically what happened to Tasim, it's how he got recrruited lmao

[chilly tulip]

Also the player had to learn that everything is the Elves fault and they have to live with that knowledge now

[signal bough]

it's not that crazy

what's crazy is that the redhead dictator is actually the god of that force

[chilly tulip]

Wait

[eternal helm]

guys wtf is this 😭
https://youtu.be/KpG08FwJW0M?si=relSq1Ykly3mcEdw

[chilly tulip]

Guys what if during Festival of the Blizzard after beating WTP there’s a dialogue option for inviting the Queen

[eternal helm]

Spoilers: || she’s dead ||

[formal bridge]

Invite zhiraok, he could use the vacation

[chilly tulip]

Imagine actively dying on the floor and the person that killed you handed a party invite

[formal bridge]

is that better or worse than "I have a healing potion"

[chilly tulip]

Equal

Both responses could be genuine or malicious, I’m not sure which is worse

[formal bridge]

Both are 100% geuine from the player

[chilly tulip]

Equally bad then

The player misunderstands the tone of the interaction because none of the presbicia raid bosses were able to talk

[formal bridge]

I mean, orphion technically lmao

[chilly tulip]

Orphion isn’t really the boss though

[signal bough]

speaking of festival invites, I know Rex is gonna get her arm back because of that

[unique pumice]

assuming they update the festivals

[whole river]

If they do they should make Rex appear in one searching for her brother and then have her brother pop up in the next one searching for her in a perpetual state of never meeting

[unique pumice]

we dont know what fruma border situatoin is

post wtp

im curious what they decide on

open borders would be too chaotic

[regal spire]

This some weird route shit

[carmine orbit]

how did bob solo annihilation if we defeated his reincarnation that easily

[regal spire]

Nesaak SD’s explain this

[carmine orbit]

i havent done them yet

[regal spire]

I’d recommend doing em, if you want the answer

[carmine orbit]

ok ok

[regal spire]

Cause I ain’t gonna say!

[carmine orbit]

but i want to know one thing atleast

how strong are we

at level 120

lore wise

[regal spire]

Strong enough

[carmine orbit]

are we stronger than lari

[regal spire]

There isn’t really a lore wise strength. Theres just experience

[eternal helm]

Huh

[carmine orbit]

ok i see thanks

[regal spire]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-ch-chapter-4-weird-gif-13904849671711587894

[eternal helm]

I’m confused 😭

[regal spire]

Zero music, flickering icicle, little twinkle sounds that make some sorta jingle

This some “It Snew” type shit

[eternal helm]

There might be music I relogged to see if it was a bug

But yea I wonder if it’s some secret

[unique pumice]

one of the strongest beings in the wynn universe based on our feats

[regal spire]

It just looks like a bug rn

[unique pumice]

at least in the physical world

[regal spire]

What’s secret about it? Does it have some kind of weird, consistent requirement to make it occur?

[carmine orbit]

and who is the strongest when considering all realms?

[formal bridge]

Probably dern beast

[unique pumice]

hard to say based on what we dont know

[formal bridge]

Realm beast with least scions

[eternal helm]

Idk like the noise could somehow be used to make some graph or word or something (arg ppl would figure it out lmao)

[unique pumice]

but if just the dern beast's eye is supposedly so hard, id assume it would be the full beast

[carmine orbit]

is that the hunters calling guy?

[unique pumice]

no

[carmine orbit]

oh isee

[unique pumice]

we havent seen the beast yet

[regal spire]

What schizo island has done to the community 😭

[gloomy idol]

It's secret rymek -> detlas plains shortcut

for the rymek lr

[eternal helm]

SOBBING

[unique pumice]

but for all we know bob is the strongest across all realms

[carmine orbit]

so is dern beast like the opposite of orphion?

[carmine orbit]

i see

[eternal helm]

Jungle lr when

[hybrid gazelle]

Cause Bob reincarnation is old lore

[gloomy idol]

"With the exception of Bob of course"

[unique pumice]

yeah counterpart to orphion

[carmine orbit]

i just wanna be stronger than that bum lari

[gloomy idol]

p sure they can state (i forgot if they did ingame) that the reincarnation is mere shadow of bob power

[carmine orbit]

i see

[unique pumice]

we are probably stronger than lari

its hard to canonize strength when the player always has to win at some point

[carmine orbit]

yeah but we are like the protagonist that doesnt mean we are the strongest

[unique pumice]

true

[gloomy idol]

u can oneshot her even at level in that one fight in rol4

[carmine orbit]

but she says to the tree that she almost killed us so i think that health bar is more like the patience of the tree or something idk

[regal spire]

It’s not really a fair assessment to compare strength in Wynn, since so much of it is justified through sheer will, not just strength

Like, canonically, you could just beat the whole game with a wooden stick

[frozen turtle]

power scaling will never work

[regal spire]

But does that make you stronger than everyone, cause you did it?

[unique pumice]

the players gear isnt canon

[chilly tulip]

I still can’t believe that whole thing

Like man

[carmine orbit]

also is fruma the strongest province so are like area levels canon?

[chilly tulip]

It seemed too crazy at the time

[regal spire]

Exactly, and since that’s where basically half/all our strength comes from, what’s exactly the base for comparison

[regal spire]

I cannot believe I almost solved it, too

[unique pumice]

i wouldnt canonize area levels

[regal spire]

I had a metamorphosis on that island, but I didn’t stay still on the right spot

[unique pumice]

well that depends on the players backstory on where our strength actually comes from. ||we get a hint of this in apotheosis and cant say much without more expansion on that front||

[chilly tulip]

Dang really? I wish that the area was bigger for the cutscene trigger

[regal spire]

I’ve already seen all that stuff, yeah. Seems it’s less of player strength, and more of “power of will” type strength

[chilly tulip]

We’re just built different, everyone needs to just get on our level

[formal bridge]

Yeah it's so vague right now we could literally be anything

[unique pumice]

well it seems like ||there is actually something we tap in to. id imagine like the strands that sui sees but im not too sure it could just all be willpower||

[regal spire]

We (not the player, no, you and me) are that infinite will/that well of potential within the player.

[formal bridge]

The ||colorless string|| dialogue could mean so many different things

[unique pumice]

Yeah

True

All we can do rn is speculate

[regal spire]

I just speculate it as a meta recognition

[frozen turtle]

so are you saying our power is..
plot armour?

[formal bridge]

I think it's going to be something more concrete

[unique pumice]

But the fact that || they use a string when they couldve used anything else and theyve already used strings to represent magical elements || is interesting

[formal bridge]

Wynn so far and Fruma have never been the most meta of stories

[regal spire]

An infinite well of black that reflects our limitless will and potential for power? Uh, yeah, what’s that black screen reflecting back

[chilly tulip]

Genuine question: Is Sui on Theorick level? Like man she gets to do some pretty big stuff there

[formal bridge]

At the moment, no probably not

[frozen turtle]

||colourless as well, its kinda described as invisible much like corruption is described||

[formal bridge]

In due time she could go far above theorick level

[hybrid gazelle]

Sui is beyond Theorick level due to her being mana weaver

[frozen turtle]

both manaweavers, Theorick has more experience though

wait

[formal bridge]

But theorick solely defended an entire region of the map

[frozen turtle]

Is Theorick a mana weaver

[hybrid gazelle]

Theorick never mention to be manaweaver

[formal bridge]

Theorick is not a manaweaver

[hybrid gazelle]

no

[formal bridge]

He's just ice

[frozen turtle]

oh

[hybrid gazelle]

there no evidence of him being manaweaver

[regal spire]

It seems that Wynn runs on “imagination”, where believing and desiring is a major part of power. Seems humans like Sui are born with an insane level of potential, and all it takes is being aware of it

[frozen turtle]

oh right nvm

im getting confused

[formal bridge]

Sui assumed she was waterbender cause it came naturally but theoretically she can use any element

[unique pumice]

|| could also be the fact that we have an innate mastery of all 5 elements which together manifests itself as a colorless string. vs sui who only has mastery over water ||

[formal bridge]

Which means she has a much higher ceiling

[chilly tulip]

Sui mentions pulling on Water and Air

[frozen turtle]

there are manaeavers, people who dont need weapons and just magic using weapons

[unique pumice]

Theorick could be though right

[formal bridge]

I mean I guess?

[unique pumice]

I feel like that would make sense as a retcon

[regal spire]

Potentially, sure

[formal bridge]

But I think it was an intentional misdirection

[unique pumice]

Obviously they didnt have the terms for that but it could be the same power

[formal bridge]

Theorick feels like he'd have learned more than just ice if he was a manaweaver

[regal spire]

They aren’t shown using foci for their powers, but idk

[formal bridge]

He was well old by the time he got corrupted

[frozen turtle]

we dont really know what manaweavers are

[formal bridge]

And used his power constantly

But never used other elements? Unlikely

[frozen turtle]

exactly

[unique pumice]

this is also true

[formal bridge]

Theorick is just another cursed who happens to use ice

[frozen turtle]

Can Sui use the other elements? i mean i'd think so but she seems very stuck on ice and water

[formal bridge]

Theoretically yes

[chilly tulip]

Air

[unique pumice]

i dont think so as easily though

[formal bridge]

She's just learning this on the fly

[chilly tulip]

She says she pulls on air

And water

[unique pumice]

like innately drawn to water and air to some extent

[frozen turtle]

im assuming ice is air & water

[formal bridge]

Yeah she has zero experience with it and only water and some air comes naturally

Sp she's going to need Two to give her a training montage or something for the others

[frozen turtle]

but we still dont know if she can interact with all the strands she sees so

idk

[hybrid gazelle]

we dont know what manaweaver is but like

[frozen turtle]

we know its strong

[hybrid gazelle]

surely not all ice base mage users are mana weaver

LOL

[formal bridge]

I would assume so until otherwise stated

[unique pumice]

but the twains were said to be very powerful so it would track

[formal bridge]

Two gives it too much emphasis

[regal spire]

Weren’t manaweavers just people that can access the strands without a foci

[unique pumice]

thats what i thought

[frozen turtle]

i dont think so

[formal bridge]

No

[regal spire]

What are those, then

[formal bridge]

A cursed is anyone who can use magic without a foci

Not strands but magic in general

[unique pumice]

a manaweaver has infinite mana then or something

[formal bridge]

Only Sui has been confirmed to see the strands on her own unaided

[frozen turtle]

uh well

[unique pumice]

|| and us for a second there ||

[regal spire]

Oh, that’s what that is

[frozen turtle]

Do cursed needs spells and such

[regal spire]

Just being able to see em

[signal bough]

Sui seems to exhaust the local mana

[formal bridge]

Not really?

It seems they just have powerful abilities in general

[frozen turtle]

Wasnt the twains people who could use magic with no weapon, foci or spells

[formal bridge]

Tasim can heal people, Theorick and co have elemental powers and ghost powers

Yes they were all cursed

Daddy twain gathered all the cursed he could find and adopted them

[regal spire]

Do we only have the word “cursed” for those with the innate ability to harness magic without a foci?

[formal bridge]

I mean it's the only in universe term we have for them

[signal bough]

could use 'magically innate'

[formal bridge]

I think cursed is better shorthand

[frozen turtle]

i dont think cursed is even the right word for this

[formal bridge]

But it is, that's what it originally meant

[frozen turtle]

cuz we've seen "cursed" people who just use weapons

tho

[formal bridge]

No

[regal spire]

It’s more that the cursed has a lot encompassing it, including magic users with foci

[frozen turtle]

like in that one SD

[formal bridge]

Thats a misunderstanding

I mean

[unique pumice]

weapons might just make it stronger since u have a foci

[formal bridge]

People on modern fruma assume anyone not blessed and uses magic is cursed

[frozen turtle]

and also we know cursed is the same as blessings, which a lot of them gain from foci so

[formal bridge]

Yeah like

[signal bough]

to the fruman govt, if you use magic and you don't do a funny ritual then you're cursed

[formal bridge]

Zhiraok doesn't need a foci

He just uses a sword cause duh

[unique pumice]

zhiraok has a blessing from anathema

i think thats different

[formal bridge]

The cursed rebellion was cursed

But they just also used weapons

[frozen turtle]

pretty sure its just anyone who uses magic whose not "blessed"

[regal spire]

Technically, he’s always holding the sword

[chilly tulip]

Wait when regular citizens get mind wiped and thrown into Wynn, does Fruma put in knowledge of how magic works so they can be effective soldiers?

[regal spire]

And that charm

[formal bridge]

No

[unique pumice]

no i think they just throw out the magic users

[formal bridge]

They just have to figure it out on their own

[tropic locust]

tasim in recover the past doesn't use a focus either lol

[formal bridge]

And it's super easy too

[unique pumice]

plus we technically have to "learn" it through the ability tree

[formal bridge]

Consider how the leaves pick it up so fast

[regal spire]

Syndra even comments on how remarkably easy it is to do it

[formal bridge]

They have to stigmatize magic so much so nobody realizes that stuff is easy lmao

[regal spire]

They all picked it up super quickly, too, except for Rex

[unique pumice]

Oh yeah a lot of it is propagandized

[frozen turtle]

but cursed is just anyone who uses magic without permission from the Gov, its like not really a term for without a foci

[signal bough]

how did she handle her 'blessing', anyways?

[formal bridge]

Iy originally was a term for those who use it without foci

[regal spire]

Dunno, she just got one from the Queen, and manages it from there

[formal bridge]

But in modern fruma they assume that it's anyone who uses magic without a blessed weapon

[regal spire]

Seems she needs her spear to better harness it, though

[frozen turtle]

i dont htink thats said anyways

[formal bridge]

Even the leaves go "oh, you aren't actually cursed" when the player explains things

[chilly tulip]

Eh, Rex wouldn’t of wanted anything handed to her anyway

[frozen turtle]

i think its just a propoganda tool for anyone who uses magic without permission

[formal bridge]

Let me fond the dialogue

[regal spire]

She couldn’t get a handle on the concept, yeah

[frozen turtle]

also i swear didnt Sui or someoen say "the dangerous cursed are the ones who dont need a weapon" or smth

[regal spire]

Mora said it

[frozen turtle]

Mora yeah

[regal spire]

Bro was rage baiting his sister

[frozen turtle]

so clearly yeah both are cursed if you use a weapon

[hybrid gazelle]

curesd is just propoganda by Fruma

it is a loose term

we dont have actual wrod for those who have magical talent yet

[regal spire]

Yeah, that’s what I was saying about calling it “cursed”, since there’s a lot to associate the term with

[hybrid gazelle]

if anyone with magic that dangerous to the crown

[frozen turtle]

Non-weaponery Magicers is my official term

[hybrid gazelle]

they would be classified as cursed

[chilly tulip]

I vote that we call everyone by terminology used in Order of the Grook

[hybrid gazelle]

with or without focus

[regal spire]

I just think of it as magic. Everyone can do it, but to a varying degree of awareness, which Foci help tap into

[frozen turtle]

but essentially, Twains were people who didnt need a Foci

[hybrid gazelle]

we are not using terminology from a quest that is base on the hit novel hiary pothead

[chilly tulip]

What about Bob?

[hybrid gazelle]

he just born like that

[regal spire]

Bob’s half human

[formal bridge]

Bob was half olm so he probably had some innate magic

[regal spire]

And half olm, which I assume both to be quite capable with magic

[hybrid gazelle]

in usual fantasy world

[unique pumice]

yeah i think calling non-foci magic users cursed is the best definition of that word then

[chilly tulip]

But did he need his weapon for it

[hybrid gazelle]

epopel with magical innate would be named Mages

[regal spire]

Put the two together, and you’ve got a super soldier with great proficiency fr

[hybrid gazelle]

but since mages is a class

I dont think people use accept that terminology

[frozen turtle]

tradiational cursed yeah, again its also just a propoganda term anyways

tho i think its also just a case of, People with no need for a foci would be found first

[formal bridge]

Ph for sure

[regal spire]

Call em Wizards and put em in a Fortress

[formal bridge]

Like, Aledar got healed by Tasim and instantly clocked he was cursed

[frozen turtle]

Like, non-foci users would be declared first before Foci users

[formal bridge]

Foci users could blend it as guards

[unique pumice]

I mean anyone can be a foci user

[formal bridge]

That's what the players does for the most part

Everyone just assumes you're a guard cause you have a weapon that does magic

[unique pumice]

I think thats also the point of the queens blessings that she gives to the regular people/guards (not scions). its just magical gear that lets them ahrness magic

[frozen turtle]

Im just talking chronologically as well from early Fruma times

[formal bridge]

Oh for sure

[frozen turtle]

We know Wynn had non-foci users before foci-users

[unique pumice]

so calling anyone that can use magic with a foci cursed is calling everybody cursed

[frozen turtle]

so probably same for Fruma

[formal bridge]

Following from actual history

They target the most outstandinf people first

Then narrow it down to whoever is left

Til the group you want genocided is all dead, and everyone even remotely like them is dead

[frozen turtle]

so it makes sense why "tradiational" cursed would be non-foci because I dont think Foci were even that known yet as well

[formal bridge]

And now you need a special weapon from the queen to do magic

Any history of foci would be erased to ensure no chances of it resurfacing

[frozen turtle]

I wonder if foci magic was discovered because the Queen was giving people blessed weapons

[formal bridge]

I assume foci were just commonplace pre queen

[unique pumice]

i dont think it was necessarily discovered. all humans have some level of innate magic potential

[formal bridge]

Like wynn has it all pver the place

[unique pumice]

it just takes finding a tool that lets u harness it which could have easily happened considering some of the weapons we see

[frozen turtle]

during the Twain times they didnt tho

[unique pumice]

it wasnt common knowledge

but some people def knew

[frozen turtle]

When the portal opened 1000 years ago, magic was not wielded by the hands of man.
Although totally capable of performing spells - just like fire, magic had to be discovered.
There were however, humans that possessed natural magical gifts. Gifts that needed no teaching or practice.
These people were few and far between, and rarely did they possess enough power to fight corruption.
Before the time of Bob however, these people were invaluable and are probably responsible for keeping the province alive.

• Lusuco Secret Library

[formal bridge]

Yeah but twain times were also in fruman colonies more recently split from the crown

[unique pumice]

how would lusuco authors know whats going on in every corner of the province

[formal bridge]

So they probably had the knowledge suppressed in fruma, spread out, then Bob rediscovered it

[frozen turtle]

I mean the fact Marius was searching across the area to find people with magic
I would assume that meant he didnt find anyone with foci

[formal bridge]

I'm assuming that pre queen foci magic existed too considering how easy it is

[frozen turtle]

and I think considering a giant portal opened up, if people knew how to use magic they would've helped out

[formal bridge]

It's just that twain times still had the propaganda convincing everyone that you needed special magic to help

Just lingering from when they were fruma colonies

[frozen turtle]

but what it kinda sounds like is the reason "tradiational cursed" had no Foci to me was because it was an art that was forgotten for a while

[formal bridge]

Yeah cause of the queen

[frozen turtle]

well no, from what it sounds like

[formal bridge]

The queen showed up when cursed were around

[frozen turtle]

they didnt have that magic before the queen even came into fruma

[formal bridge]

Killed all the cursed

But they did

[unique pumice]

yeah right i mean we were able to make foci with a few pieces of wood metal and whatever in the ultimate weapon

[frozen turtle]

.

[formal bridge]

Cause all the stories we get from the leaves is from the perspective of people who grew up on crown propaganda

[unique pumice]

surely someone wouldve stumbled across some foci before

[formal bridge]

That is also a derivative of crown propaganda though

My theory is that

If they could build the resonance weaver

They had to knoe about foci too

It's so easy to learn I don't see how they couldn't

[frozen turtle]

Its only easy to learn if you know about it

[slim belfry]

I'll leave this here for everyone to read https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Remains_of_the_Cursed

[formal bridge]

Yeah and before the queen

Nobody was telling them not to do it

[whole river]

Ngl I used to think so but scions got a narrative power boost

[formal bridge]

So why wouldn't they figure it out

[hybrid gazelle]

plea dont take a joke quset to heart

also in gavel quest

[whole river]

Lari trounces us still prob

[hybrid gazelle]

ALWAYS REMEMBER

[frozen turtle]

currently, from what we know is that before the Fruma queen ever became Her Majesty, people didnt know how to use Foci

[hybrid gazelle]

IF IT GAVEL
DONT TAKE IT TOO SERIOUSLY

[formal bridge]

Why wouldnt they

Cause like

They huilt the resonance weaver

Cursed used to be all over

Nobody figured out how to use magic from them? Nobody?

[frozen turtle]

that was runes

not foci

[formal bridge]

Cursed ones were around

And the resonance weavers show they studied magic

They learned runes

[hybrid gazelle]

also

to make a focus, you also need magical materials

which is not common in Fruma

[frozen turtle]

and also you need to know that ur trying to do magic like

[hybrid gazelle]

that too

[formal bridge]

Except we still make one easily enough with zeph so long as we know where to look

It just feels like

[frozen turtle]

yeah the cursed used class specialisation