📚lore_discussion

[solid ibex]

you can just see them blindly following orders, killing n stuff

[unique pumice]

yeah i do think the character development is present

[summer bluff]

It's actually kinda funny how there's like. NOTHING in bremmlingar

[hybrid gazelle]

somehow got lore in Fruma

LOL

well more of Fruma update

[solid ibex]

then like it just evolves away from that a lot

[hybrid gazelle]

but yeah it surpirse either way

[solid ibex]

like does the player immediately kill those erm

what are their names again

gurts

yeah

[unique pumice]

and we exterminate like three orc camps

[solid ibex]

like do they just commit genocide against the gurts

[unique pumice]

even though we did NOT need to do allat

[full jackal]

We killed Mother Wyrm, The Parasite (assist with Orphion), The Nameless Anomaly, The Well Witch, Witherhead, Arkadius, Charon, Garoth, Hashr, Theorick, Slykaar, Redbeard, THE EYE, Aledar, Majin, Gikyo, Anathema (assist kill), Commander Ferreo (assist kill)

[hybrid gazelle]

we kinda need to

[solid ibex]

we were ordered to

[hybrid gazelle]

because we given mission to do so LOL

[full jackal]

Uhhh

[echo hamlet]

does Rex die in the end or is she revived ? I didn’t really get that part.

[hybrid gazelle]

the only thing that we did not need to do is cut their head off

[solid ibex]

revived

[hybrid gazelle]

she revived

[solid ibex]

we have killed a lot more

[full jackal]

Yea ik

[echo hamlet]

can we meet them after apotheosis?

[hybrid gazelle]

we will

[full jackal]

I can’t list all of them that quickly

[hybrid gazelle]

after epliogue is finish

someday

IDK when

[full jackal]

Uhh we also killed uhh

[hybrid gazelle]

but someday

[solid ibex]

epilogue needs to be done

[full jackal]

Nope

Not yet

Unfortunately

[cinder cedar]

the first time we start to question our orders is when we complete The Mercenary or by at least during our adventures in Gavel

[full jackal]

We killed Takan

The Witch on the Maiden Tower

[echo hamlet]

guys after all

[unique pumice]

Like we were ordered to just get rid of the leaders but bringing back their impaled heads is kinda psychotic

[full jackal]

The… Quartron guy

[echo hamlet]

there was war behind the fruman walls.

[solid ibex]

crazy thing to say, what if Lari pushed us a lot to consider more things than just killing

[full jackal]

The Lieutenant in Torann

[unique pumice]

I like this

[hybrid gazelle]

it is but then again you could say it's to verify the mission is done

rather than word from the mouth

but this likely getting change because like

again

[solid ibex]

like story wise, it makes sense

[hybrid gazelle]

decapitating orc's head is not even the most insane shit that player done

[unique pumice]

Especially because RoL is so canon to the player and clearly a very important questline in our development

[solid ibex]

Lari is kinda right about blindly killing, but it is necessary when its actually needed

[hybrid gazelle]

the blazing rebruititon

[full jackal]

I actually think the mercenary

[hybrid gazelle]

literally have you

wear an orc skin as reward

[full jackal]

Lines up very well with RoL

[hybrid gazelle]

oh what if ROL was written good

[hybrid gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/umamusume-uma-musume-special-week-spe-chan-stare-gif-12138960336223403084

[full jackal]

Because in the mercenary we help the Wynnic Alliance to take out a rebel, but we never even considered what Takan’s goals were

[hybrid gazelle]

the wasted potential of ROL

[solid ibex]

😭

[hybrid gazelle]

How the fuck

[unique pumice]

i wouldnt say wasted

[solid ibex]

i hate the fact she chooses to spare it so much

[full jackal]

We blindly trusted them and ended up killing so many people without knowing why

[unique pumice]

i think it did its job well

[hybrid gazelle]

do you write a quest where player learn nothing from it

I am not even going to humor that

dogshit opinion

anyway

[full jackal]

And I do think Takan made an impact on Aledar and our worldviews

[solid ibex]

I like told my non wynncraft player friend about the realm of light stuff

[unique pumice]

lol???

[solid ibex]

SHE HATES LARI

[split night]

average flowey and frisk interraction

[hybrid gazelle]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/HDjeVDsW4AAghul.gif

[full jackal]

SO this parallels RoL

[hybrid gazelle]

okay I hate how like

[full jackal]

Where we sorta just blindly accept Orphion and Lari’s worldview of Light=Good Dark=Bad

[hybrid gazelle]

the quest writing in the game

literalyl give you every reason to hate Lari

[unique pumice]

the whole point of the discussion we are having is how the player learned from lari and this is evidenced in the nuance in our actions the quests post RoL have that the ones before it lack

[hybrid gazelle]

like

and it WEIRD

because they did not intend to make Lari hatable

just flawed

[full jackal]

It is weird

And contradicts Fruma

[hybrid gazelle]

but like IDK wtf are these writing decision

but like that explainable I guess becuase like

ROL just made in crunch time

but still man like

[full jackal]

Fruma states that light and dark are 2 selfish forces that fight out of hatred for each other and they don’t care for any of the people they hurt in the process

Which is really cool writing decision

[unique pumice]

i think seeing that we're given this, beginning to realize it might not be the full truth is what introduces the nuance into the player's mind and begins our journey of questioning authority and orders

[full jackal]

But like this framing contradicts pretty much…

EVERYTHING IN LIGHT FOREST

[hybrid gazelle]

if you did not tell me

[split night]

Just give Lari a win in her pacifist way and RoL would be so peak

[hybrid gazelle]

I would have though the writers just really hate Lari for some reason

[solid ibex]

would it have been better if like in Rol 3
she spares the parasite first
then in their later encounter, she actually plans to kill but the parasite has already gone too strong for Lari and Dullahan to fully stop and they had to retreat when dullahan gets injured

[full jackal]

Man if only that continued into ROL

There is…

0 nuance in RoL

Light=good

[unique pumice]

Well i take it as we do ROL under our naivety and blind orders

[full jackal]

Saviour of gavel

Dark=BAD

[solid ibex]

yeah theres like

some conflicting shit

[unique pumice]

And after the questline we have the realizatoin

[full jackal]

It’s never stated as naivety

[solid ibex]

Lari needs a rework ong

[full jackal]

In fact we’re made out to be heroes for it

[full jackal]

True

[solid ibex]

shes actually a good character if it werent for the fact that her flaws are more highlighted and her flaws continue to outshine her

[full jackal]

That would make her more likeable at least

[unique pumice]

Made out by who? Theres always going to be some bias because the story is from the player's perspective and so we are constrained by our thoughts and our knowledge of the world

[full jackal]

Like she just suddenly completely changes in RoL V

[light ocean]

I think I heard they're planning to rewrite Lari

[solid ibex]

they are

they have to

it hurts the story a lot

especially since Lari is actually important for the Dern expedition

[full jackal]

“I think i found someone who deserves to die” mf literally nothing changed except some tree gave you a pep talk shut your corny ass up

[light ocean]

Honestly RoL 5 isnt the one I have a problem with, that makes sense because the tree actually knocked some sense into her

[solid ibex]

or whatever Two has planned

[light ocean]

The real problem is RoL 3

Which tells us for the first time she had 1000 YEARS to think this through

[solid ibex]

Rol 5 is the better of the questline

[light ocean]

And I thought Dullahan would idk... be more relevant???

[solid ibex]

Rol 2 and 3 are my contenders for the worse ones

[full jackal]

RoL 2&3 are loredumps

But at least 3 is fun

[light ocean]

Eh RoL 2 isn't that bad, it is mostly setup and I like the dilemma but it doesnt do anything that actively hurts the story

[hybrid gazelle]

Dude

[light ocean]

RoL 3 though...

[hybrid gazelle]

I fucking hate guardian tree

[hybrid gazelle]

I hate the guardian tree so much

Who the fuck even take guardian tree seriously lol

[solid ibex]

i just think of the meme

[split night]

treesus

[solid ibex]

or that one song "are you coming to the tree"

[hybrid gazelle]

It literally the meme

It like

[light ocean]

But yeah I'm really looking forward to a rewrite of both WynnExcavation and Realm of Light

[hybrid gazelle]

Realm of light getting remake someday

After fruma

We don’t know when

[solid ibex]

man i thought WynnEx was so cool, then like compared to the rest of the content its so fucking shit

[light ocean]

I'm kinda not tooo hard on RoL because the version that came before Gavel Reborn was absolutely fucking dogshit

[full jackal]

Chop down the tree

[hybrid gazelle]

Wynnex just get the issue where

The entire fucking story is just chasing mcguffin

[solid ibex]

probably when midgame rework comes about

[hybrid gazelle]

There is no engaging character or development

[light ocean]

WynnEx needs more characters and plot twists

[full jackal]

Ooh secret society oh noooo

[hybrid gazelle]

You just chasing these mcguffin

[full jackal]

Fuck off

[split night]

i don't want mcdonald villain plot twist

like

[cinder cedar]

wynnex should tie into more the villager civil war

[light ocean]

Imo it would be the perfect time to utilize the characters we saw in Queen's Recruit that didnt show up for the rest of Fruma

[split night]

they seriously think Amadel being the twist villain is good writing?

xd

[summer bluff]

I like assigning quests to my player ocs, and wynnex is for the one with cosmic magic

[light ocean]

Same with Aledar

Tasim I get because he went to Gavel

[full jackal]

“Secret Society” has literally 0 impact on the rest of the plot

[unique pumice]

I want more lore on the yahya family

Where is sohso

[solid ibex]

geniunely i was like "oh, bruh"

[full jackal]

Soho’s wastelands

[light ocean]

Yeahhhh it was predictable and boring because we hardly knew anything about him

[full jackal]

I did not care for him

[cinder cedar]

sohso is in the prison district

[unique pumice]

Why

[cinder cedar]

meteor

[full jackal]

They do research

I think idk

[unique pumice]

Oh i wonder if they'll do more meteor/cosmic lore in the wastelands

Surely right

[cinder cedar]

meteor + figuring out how life and changelings work

[full jackal]

Perhaps

[light ocean]

Anyways hear me out, the questline becomes tighter but still ranges from 35-70, it picks up right after The Mercenary, and it involves some of the other Wynn soldiers. I also think Junes would be a good fit for the questline given how she is a researcher

[cinder cedar]

more so using changelings to further technology and to figure out how to create artificial life forms

[full jackal]

Yea true

Like they just appear

[solid ibex]

i think its the plan

[full jackal]

In queen’s recruits

And suddenly they’re actually good characters with personalities

[solid ibex]

especially since they are reused in queens recruit

[full jackal]

And they disappear

[summer bluff]

There is something so messed up with gavel as like. A place
Wynn has Corruption, gavel has corruption™️

[solid ibex]

it would honestly be so fire if wynn and gavel were styled like fruma's quests

[light ocean]

I want to know more about the soldiers, they were used in The Mercenary and Queen's Recruit but they actually seem like they're supposed to be major characters

Oh and hear me out one more thing

Turn Amadel into a raid boss

[full jackal]

And it only affects like half of the province

The other half…

Colossus i guess

[solid ibex]

Gavel is geniunely a fucked up province

[fervent sun]

A Cabinet in True Colours probably refers to Sohso

[light ocean]

Maybe he could still be fought in Wynn Site D but like, maybe he could become more powerful kinda like the Queen

[full jackal]

But I don’t see how the colossus is really uh… related

To anything else

[light ocean]

I'd argue the Colossus plotline is way tighter than the Realm of Light plotline

But still

[whole river]

The colossus doesn’t really have to be connected though

[full jackal]

It is

The Breaking Point is a great quest

[solid ibex]

1/4 is decay, 1/4 is light shit, half of it is just the colossus shenanigans and then theres molten

which is still affected by colossus

[full jackal]

But it’s just… uhh

Yea

[solid ibex]

long?

[light ocean]

We also get some good buildup in other quests from lvl 80-95

[summer bluff]

Nah the colossus area still has the seigfried corporation, that cosmetically alters humans and then if they fail at being seigfried they get killed and stuffed into the monument

[full jackal]

Sorta irrelevant in the grand scheme of things

[whole river]

Amadel is fought pre-parasite so he can’t really be that strong unless you mean making him hard to fight

[summer bluff]

Corrupt

[nocturne nimbus]

wynnexcavation is genuinely older than a good chunk of wynn players

[summer bluff]

When was it added?

[light ocean]

No I mean like, given that he basically becomes a god with the crystals I'd argue he could be on the same level as the Grootslangs

[split night]

yeah xd

[nocturne nimbus]

like 2013 or maybe 2014

[solid ibex]

the entire colossus thing?

though think about it

[whole river]

Since like damn near the start

[full jackal]

Uhh yea

[solid ibex]

we saved like almost half the province by calming the colossus

[light ocean]

Gavel I feel like could work in two sections

[whole river]

I feel like irrelevant is the wrong term to use

[light ocean]

The bottom section is the decay, while the top is the Colossus

[whole river]

Gavel is massive so of course it shouldn’t focus all on the realms

[nocturne nimbus]

seems to have been added in 1.13 so about 11.5 years ago

[solid ibex]

you can consider the colossus is just another player upscale

[light ocean]

The Orcs and Meteors could also be cool to focus on as well, and I'd argue the Orcs are handled well for the most part

[full jackal]

Wynnexcavation was…

[solid ibex]

like wow bro you somehow fought this giant ass mf and calmed it down with 3 other soldiers

[full jackal]

September 2013

Oh fuck

[solid ibex]

and like you solve SO MUCH PROBLEMS

[hybrid gazelle]

Me wearing Poxer's Skin while ding Road to Peace Quest

[slender copper]

People are younger then that are here!?

[full jackal]

Oh no

[hybrid gazelle]

that the thing the game alow you to do

[solid ibex]

like do you know how much problems the colossus was causing in canyon of the lost

[hybrid gazelle]

and the gmae will not judge you for it

[signal bough]

I hope not

[hybrid gazelle]

you could literally roll up to All road to peace in this fit and the quest will act liek it's the wind

[nocturne nimbus]

It's Minecraft

[uneven basin]

Orcs know we don't got internet it's okay

[nocturne nimbus]

I first joined Wynncraft at about that age

[solid ibex]

yeah bro we def chill with you even tho you have the skin of our dead fellow orc

[nocturne nimbus]

Although obviously they wouldn't be allowed on Discord which I believe has an age limit of 13

*depending on your jurisdiction

[hybrid gazelle]

wynncraft truly one kind of a game

[solid ibex]

im crine

[hybrid gazelle]

IDK who has the fantasy of wearing acutal sapient skin

but like

[full jackal]

I actually think if you wear that stuff

[hybrid gazelle]

here you goes I guess

[full jackal]

You should get an alt ending to the quest

Where you have to actually kill the orc leader person cuz they won’t listen to reason

[light ocean]

Like I think the WynnExcavation storyline should be a sequel to the spider storyline and the mercenary, and maybe more than 4 quests because it's really hard to tell a story in that small amount of time (Maybe not 13 like Fruma but they handled that really well). Realm of Light and Canyon Colossus kinda make sense to keep their own things but I still dont fully know why Realm of Light is required for Queen's Recruit other than "oh Sovereign Two brought up Lari". Then Silent Expanse, then Fruma, and then if we're gonna go to Portal to Dern I'd argue it makes sense to bring Tasim back for that because he probably would've done what Aledar wanted, and it could sort of be like a redemption arc for him (plus even though the Silent Expanse is dangerous, he's a sovereign he can handle it)

[uneven basin]

Honestly just rename it to Poxper's chestplate 😭

[solid ibex]

oh my god THATS WHAT IT MEANT

[hybrid gazelle]

literally this

Zuitt trying to explain to other orcs that player is chill

[light ocean]

I honestly love the changes they made to Recover the Past, they made it slightly shorter but also tighter, and it's some really good setup for Fruma and Aledar/Tasim's backstories

[full jackal]

I mean RoL is required because Fruma only really invites us because of the events of RoL

Like we impressed them or smth

[light ocean]

Ohhhhh

Huh

[full jackal]

And it’s necessary context for the rest of it

[hybrid gazelle]

also neat detail

during this segment

you can see Tasim''s wing

when he heal Aledar

[shy hemlock]

Don’t you need that quest for Queen’s Recruit too?

[light ocean]

Yes, you do

[hybrid gazelle]

Tasim's original magic innate is him be able to buff people

Tasim literally got 2 set of wings LOL

[shy hemlock]

thats cool

[slender copper]

You specified Wynn players, not Minecraft in general lol.

[hybrid gazelle]

Bak'al could have butterfly wing like how Tasim and Lari have wings from their blessing

[light ocean]

Oh and if we do go to Portal to Dern, let's say like exactly at 120, Hunter's Calling probably should be required lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

but I cant prove that

[whole river]

Tasim should be in aledar’s secret part 2 ngl

[hybrid gazelle]

Bak'al with Anathema's wing

[solid ibex]

im so glad they changed this shit instead of it having that goddamn "there is no war in the fruman walls"

[unique pumice]

Wynn is a minecraft server..

Its not a reach to say that players would stumble onto wynncraft

While playing minecraft

[light ocean]

Yeah they pretty much ripped off Avatar for that one

[full jackal]

What was it like before?

[unique pumice]

Well yeah it was a reference

[full jackal]

A reference that goes too far into more of…

[nocturne nimbus]

I'm saying there are definitely Wynncraft players that are below 11.5 years old, because Wynncraft is a game in Minecraft which is very popular with kids

[full jackal]

Being unoriginal

[unique pumice]

References =/= ripping off

[light ocean]

It is a reference but it kinda uses it unironically

[hybrid gazelle]

weynncraft back then

is more of reference to pop culture

than anything substantial

[solid ibex]

fuckin in character 😭

[light ocean]

Something like Maiden Tower feels like it was deliberately designed to be a Shrek fanfiction which I feel like is funny

[unique pumice]

It was...

A lot of the wynn quests especially the older ones have a shit ton of media references

[full jackal]

True I guess, I mean I wouldn’t really think that… they’d actually understand anything that goes on in the questline

[hybrid gazelle]

WYnncraft back then literally cant comphrend

a single quest without referencing pop culture material

that probably outdated by the next months of the quest release

[uneven basin]

It doesn't "feel like" it is xd

[hybrid gazelle]

LOL

[full jackal]

Well yea, but when it’s part of a big plot beat in the story

I feel like you probably shouldn’t be uh… referencing shit in that place

[light ocean]

Its a shame they removed Lord of the Clock

[hybrid gazelle]

they reference so hard that even harry potter quest have reference to the transphobic black mold

[uneven basin]

Cough order of the grook cough

[light ocean]

AND MACABRE MASQUERADE

[slender copper]

looks at how easy it is to get into Wynncraft
Guess that makes sense, especially if they are looking for servers.

[light ocean]

WHYYYYYY

[full jackal]

But like I do think there’s a good filtration system though

[nocturne nimbus]

eh probably not but you can have fun anyway, I did

[full jackal]

Like if you were a stupid 10 year old

Like me

Playing wynncraft

I got impatient and didn’t understand anything that was happening

So i left

[unique pumice]

I put my little brother onto wynn when he was 10 lol he had a lot of fun playing it

[full jackal]

And then I rejoined when I was like 11.5

And like finally I understood shit

Barely

Sorta actually not really

[light ocean]

Actually now that I think about it, I'm kinda hoping they make another Holiday quest or at least tie it into the story better. Craftmas Chaos was removed and Meaningful Holiday is just shoehorned in

[full jackal]

But like I could at least have a basic grasp of the plot i guess

[light ocean]

But Grave Mistake is unironically peak

[solid ibex]

i got bored of it then i came back after like a few months

[unique pumice]

I think the festivals are meant to replace holiday events

[full jackal]

A grave mistake actually scares me shitless ngl

[light ocean]

Fair!

[uneven basin]

When craftmas chaos is better than meaningful holiday

[solid ibex]

continued till i got endgame then the updates made me stay a lot

[full jackal]

I cannot handle horror quests

[full jackal]

Why would nick give them their food back

[light ocean]

I love it so much

[full jackal]

Just like… don’t

[slender copper]

Let's hope that system stays with all the reworks underway then.

[full jackal]

You know how many starving kids in Africa that could feed

[solid ibex]

Craftmas Chaos is such a weird quest

[light ocean]

My ONLY issue with it is that the armor stand animations are outdated to where now they dont work

[full jackal]

Yea please don’t dumb it down

[light ocean]

Memory Paranoia has the same problem

[full jackal]

Just so the small children can understand

[full jackal]

I actually have never done hollow serenity

[uneven basin]

Nah it's amazing

[light ocean]

Yeah it's... ehhh

[solid ibex]

i played thousand meters under and i was laughing my ass off when i saw the armor stands

[light ocean]

It's peak

[full jackal]

Because I get way too scared

[solid ibex]

santa v0re

[uneven basin]

Fire

[full jackal]

It’s embarrassing what it is

[light ocean]

OH TRUE

[uneven basin]

Anyways honestly I think there's potential for a forgery / time magic tie in if it were to be cleaned up

[slender copper]

Because there's... quite a bit of content in late game that will probably introduce a kid to a lot of... blood.

[light ocean]

I havent done that in a while

[full jackal]

Meh it’s pretty mild

[solid ibex]

forgery is so fucking mid

[light ocean]

Im pretty sure the characters also swear

[full jackal]

Rex’s death portrait is like the worst thing

[solid ibex]

please give it lore and make it better

[light ocean]

Gikyo says dumbass at one point

[full jackal]

And it wasn’t that bad

[full jackal]

So?

[uneven basin]

That's the point I wish it wasn't

Potential feature

[light ocean]

No it's not a problem I'm just saying how it's not so kid friendly

[uneven basin]

0 reason to do it 0 interesting aspects 7 delayed updates

[slender copper]

Oh yeah and the racism/fascism/classism.

[full jackal]

Like some people in my class of 7th graders actively say slurs (not that that is acceptable or anything like it isn’t cool at all) someone saying dumbass is not gonna affect them

They’ll just laugh and be like hahaha swearing funny

Swear funny swear funny hahahahahaha

[light ocean]

Yeah I dont think they should change that

[full jackal]

I think the least family friendly stuff is probably like… the horror quests definitely

[light ocean]

OH WAIT YEAH THERE IS A LOT OF BLOOD I FORGOT

Syndra literally gets decapitated

[full jackal]

I mean it wasn’t that bad

[light ocean]

And Rex gets stabbed and loses an arm

[slender copper]

Yeah lol

[full jackal]

Meh… seen worse

[light ocean]

Dont worry I'm not asking them to tone it down, I think it's effective for the story

[full jackal]

It was really sad but not that gruesome

[slender copper]

It's still enough to make a kid scarred lol

[light ocean]

Tbf... kids under 12... probably shouldn't play Wynncraft lmao

[full jackal]

Agreed

[slender copper]

Agreed

[full jackal]

I mean I wasn’t actually able to appreciate it tbh

I wish i could re-experience the quests first-hand while also having basic media literacy

[light ocean]

I started playing Wynncraft when I was like 13

[light ocean]

Thats kinda what I'm doing too

[solid ibex]

🤐

[slender copper]

o_o

[full jackal]

But in that case

[light ocean]

I used to love Realm of Light questline, and honestly after replaying it... I dont think it's completely horrible like everyone said but RoL 3 yeahhh we dont talk about that

[full jackal]

Wynncraft loses like 39% of its player base or smth

[split night]

Undertale where sans murder thing might genuinely have btter writing

[full jackal]

Dusttale?

Killertale?

[uneven basin]

It's really not that bad

[split night]

Killertale is a made up name
that thing is named Undertale: Something New

[full jackal]

Oh yea right

[light ocean]

Well I'm not just talking about the quests

[ashen salmon]

what if in rol3 instead of going through dullahan’s memories in the paintings you played sm64 levels

[light ocean]

Peak

[split night]

the fact that i now realize the similarity is kiling me

[ashen salmon]

you just jump into the first painting and hear “bababa bo ba bah”

[slender copper]

[Player]: Let's a go!

[light ocean]

And its the iconic Bob Omb Battlefield

[slender copper]

???

[full jackal]

IT’S SMOKE BREAK TIME!

[split night]

it's out of context

[slender copper]

Yeah I can see that-

[full jackal]

Wait why don’t the changelings just

Morph into flies

And fly out of Fruma

[light ocean]

I dont think most Gen Alpha kids would even really know what Wynncraft is

[split night]

I'm waiting for someone to draw Lari smoking like this

It'd be funny as hell

[full jackal]

Sure why not

[light ocean]

I mean Wynn only gets consistent what like, 2000-5000 players a day?

[full jackal]

I could try ig

[light ocean]

Like it has a dedicated fanbase but nothing crazy

[full jackal]

I mean i do

[split night]

I think a solid 85% is at least am adult

[full jackal]

That’s probably a bit of a high estimate

[light ocean]

Everyone just kinda got older

[full jackal]

Maybe more of like 48% if we’re talking anyone who has played the game for more than 1 hour

[light ocean]

Maybe, I'm probably a bit biased here since I am in a guild that's all adults but like, I'd think it's a good majority of the playerbase

[nocturne nimbus]

way more lol

[full jackal]

I mean its at any time though

[nocturne nimbus]

it has 2k+ concurrent players

[full jackal]

So like what would the daily player count be

[nocturne nimbus]

you just have to multiply the average concurrent player count with the average session time

[solid ibex]

lowkey after sometime to think

[nocturne nimbus]

so if you have 2k average concurrents and an average session time of 1 hour for example, that would be 28k players daily

[solid ibex]

i have decided that i do not want kids to touch this game

[nocturne nimbus]

wait no

48?

[solid ibex]

because i would fucking bully them

[nocturne nimbus]

maybe my math is wrong

[light ocean]

This game is peak ragebait material

[solid ibex]

if you dont do your part in the raid, you a bih forever!

[full jackal]

That’s… a bit mean to punch down on other people just because of their age

[full jackal]

If they’re bad at the game tho

Then yea it is justified to bully them ig /sarcasm

[light ocean]

Hard to understand builds that you'll dedicate your le to only for them to fail miserably? Check
Being bad at raids? Check
Bosses that will kick your ass and make you rage? Check

[full jackal]

I honestly feel really bad when doing raids cuz I barely even do them so I have to read the instructions

[light ocean]

Oh and 2.0 made it even more complex, I dont think most kids want to play this game

[full jackal]

But i also feel terrible cuz I’m slowing all of them down

[light ocean]

I remember back when it was four spells that got upgraded by you levelling up

[solid ibex]

the thing that makes me hate players is when:
they control the challenge room, but have 0 idea on what they are doing
its okay to have bad builds, its okay to be a newbie, its okay to be any of that
but the moment you control the progression, i will have a knife by your throat if you dont do it correctly

[full jackal]

So a lot of times I don’t read it then have no idea what to do when the challenge starts

[light ocean]

Back in my day Gavel wasn't even reborn yet

[nocturne nimbus]

back in my day gavel wasn't even born

[full jackal]

I joined at like 1.20 i think

Just before 2.0

[nocturne nimbus]

it's definitely more complex now but wynncraft isn't a very hard game imo, before endgame at least

[full jackal]

I remember the levelling skill progressions, that shit sucked ngl

[ashen salmon]

lebron reportedly took berry as a warrior

[light ocean]

I started playing in the beginning of 2019 so that had to have been Economy Update

[nocturne nimbus]

you can level up and complete quests even if you suck at the game

[light ocean]

Yeah its easy to level up

[full jackal]

Up until Fruma at least

[light ocean]

Even like bosses that are around Level 70 I have almost no trouble with

Corrupter of Worlds? Cake

Amadel? Cake

[full jackal]

Rymek Luke on level

[light ocean]

Bob? Actually gives me some trouble

Same with Death

[solid ibex]

these bosses pre 2.0 were actually hard

now they just a cake walk

[light ocean]

But not even close to the shit I had to deal with in Fruma

[light ocean]

No I'd argue I did fine on them even before 2.0

But they got even easier

[full jackal]

Okay but like Rymek luke on level is like harder than every boss in Fruma other than maybe her majesty

[solid ibex]

vine boom

[light ocean]

Not if you play Archer

[solid ibex]

you basically saying the same thing

[nocturne nimbus]

yeah boss altars are usually pretty hard at level

[light ocean]

Bovine Barn and Prison of Souls are tough especially

[full jackal]

Except for some reason Hyhet was pretty chill

[light ocean]

Rymek Luke is actually manageable if you play Archer (which you're SUPPOSED TO DO since you can get Deadeye)

[full jackal]

Like I managed to face tank him with my crappy 38k EHP build

[light ocean]

Like I fought him with Trapper, almost never died unless I couldn't read his pattern

[ashen salmon]

cant say the b word

[light ocean]

He hurts a lot but keep your distance and youll be fine

Odd

They dont censor shit or fuck but they do censor that

[ashen salmon]

i think because it’s technically a slur against women

[full jackal]

They censor the word b i l a b i a l too

I think it’s cuz it means a different word in anatomy than linguistics

But it’s still weird

Do not search that up by the way big mistake

[light ocean]

Literally dont even know what it means nor do I want to know

[signal bough]

I remember struggling a lot with bosses

I wasn't doing builds, at least until I could get my hands on enough morph

[light ocean]

I had a dogshit build on my Assassin that was mostly just a tank but like then I learned "oh just play Thunder assassin it's broken you'll be fine"

And then 2.0 happened

[signal bough]

maybe its cause I'm sharpshooter

[light ocean]

And I learned Shadestepper and I guess later Acrobat

Still dont fully understand Trickster given that I never played it

[whole river]

Trickster is way easier when people find out the third person mode

[light ocean]

Honestly the same is true with Acrobat when it comes to grinding

Speaking of which

Oh my god

Acrobat is so fun to grind with

I actually got a good build with Petal Blade and I can solo batcave and some Fruma WE's

[sick quest]

Yeah the only one you’re actually forced to do at level is the deserter in aelumia

[signal bough]

damn they put in all but oru's portrait

[sick quest]

Bob is in desperate need of an update

The hero of wynn basically just looks like a vanilla zombie

[light ocean]

Honestly? I'd argue for the bosses around that level he's one of the most fun to fight

[signal bough]

ever since I did that bossfight I have wondered- what the hell is that

[light ocean]

He holds up better than CoW and Amadel

But I agree he could still use a rework

[sick quest]

Amadel u right

Corruptor of worlds i just dont rly care abt

[light ocean]

All CoW does is run at you and combo you but once you just learn to keep your distance he becomes so easy

[sick quest]

Its kinda a nothingburger

And is the least interesting of the three

[light ocean]

Bob actually gives me some trouble because of the phase changes and sometimes getting hit with the Warrior phase

Heavy charge is really hard to predict when its spammed

[sick quest]

I mean the fighting mechanics are fine-ish but the fact that the old scab of ragni Witherhead has more aura than Bob is crazy

[solid ibex]

Bob might be important in dern

so like he will need that update

although its most likely he is dead
it will be so interesting to see him in dern still kicking

[sick quest]

I mean isnt Bob entirely disconnected from the War of Realms outside of Corruption

[solid ibex]

its implied he is in Dern because of gateway island

in fantastic voyage, we travel to gateway island with his old friend
we find his old camp which is confirmed to be his because of the letter there, relend also implies that his friend is Bob and he took Bob to gateway island

[sick quest]

OHHH SHIT UR RIGHT

[solid ibex]

we didnt travel that far cause of the eye, but knowing bob, he probably found his way to dern

[sick quest]

Goddamn

Hope Bob is rocking Bak’al’s shi in Dern

[solid ibex]

it would be scary to think though

[civic wren]

Bob is probably our scion

[solid ibex]

since Saphanis is implied to have gotten a power beyond their means

[sick quest]

Im glad we’ll have a few allies in dern (especially since dern will be much larger than RoL)

[solid ibex]

imagine if they are using Bob as a pawn
like he undead which will be sad to see

and he being controlled

[sick quest]

I hope not

[solid ibex]

unless he is like infected in a way where we can save him
idk lets just see how they use bob in the future and rework

since he is undeniably one of the most important characters

[sick quest]

I mean Im guessing Tasim will come w us to dern

Since its tied to Aledar

Maybe Sui for the manaweaving skill and because shes pretty ride or die

Def not Zeph, Rex, Ava, Maxxie, or any of the other major characters

[solid ibex]

Tasim is def coming with us

he has to make up for the fruma shenanigans

[sick quest]

Our raid team could be Tasim Lari Bob or Tasim Lari Sui

[solid ibex]

besides Two will also approach us about it since they now are the ones doing the plans

[solid ibex]

shit bro this is too sweet

[sick quest]

Tasim Lari Sui as a raid team would be kinda elite

And with Bob as a mentor figure

[signal bough]

Ava could do it

not Maxxie tho

[sick quest]

I always want more Ava but her storyline is in a weird limbo rn

I rly wanted her and maxxie to join us in Fruma

[signal bough]

that's why we get her coming back in wastelands

it's a good point for a (re)introduction of her and maxxie imo

[sick quest]

Yeah for sure

[whole river]

I don’t see anyone in the current wynnverse stronger than a tasim bob lari core tbh

[sick quest]

I want the Corkians to get involved with the Fruman government post apotheosis

[solid ibex]

WE ARE NOT INVITING ANYONE ELSE TO DERN

[sick quest]

Ava and Sui both have crazy potential

[solid ibex]

especially after that SE shenanigans

[sick quest]

Fr

[solid ibex]

only people we inviting are the fruma folks like Tasim and Sui since they are capable of handling

[sick quest]

I imagine most of the ppl who end up in dern will die

[signal bough]

Professor Eih is non-negotiable

[sick quest]

Dude Eih can clear dern without us

[signal bough]

he will give dern a good lickin... literally...

[solid ibex]

son

anyways how about we give the sovereigns a try?

jk zhiraok and soosu would probably handle fruma stuff

[sick quest]

Zhiraok and Soosu are def just gonna stay in fruma and rebuild

[solid ibex]

im so happy both of them survived tho im so happy for them 😊

[whole river]

Ava? Like my Avos girlfriend?

[signal bough]

probably most of the Canopy too, I could see Rurie

[solid ibex]

lari defender and ava as your girl?

ggs bro

[sick quest]

I hope Fruma installs a socialist representative government given its been absolutely fucked by its class divide

[signal bough]

#AzaelForPremier

[sick quest]

Also Soosu should not hold a place on rep council

[whole river]

Sui is strong but she’s not at that level yet

[solid ibex]

much of the fruma npcs would be focused on fruma only lmao
really Tasim is like the only one willing to go to dern with us

[sick quest]

And sui

[solid ibex]

im not sure about Sui

[sick quest]

Sui doesnt seem rly tied down to fruma anymore

She was rly heartbroken abt mora

[signal bough]

it depends on what happens in wastelands, I presume we're going to get further information there, somehow

[sick quest]

I think she could benefit from a corkus trip

[solid ibex]

or whatever epilogue implies

i am so excited to see epilogue stuff

it would help a lot

[solid ibex]

Sui taking a break from Fruma would certianly help her

[signal bough]

I'm sure sending Sui to hell will help her mental state

[solid ibex]

yeah Sui needs to stay out of anything that will involve in her fighting

sure she is a great asset, but thats weaponizing her lmao

[sick quest]

Oh no it wouldnt help at all but its something someone struggling with general anger at the world and grief might do

[solid ibex]

id rather have her actually stop fighting and just well, do whatever in fruma now

[sick quest]

But i hope my girl sui goes to corkus and chills w ava and maxxie

Get her outta fruma they dont deserve her

[solid ibex]

Sui hasnt properly mourn for anyone yet too

since like she has to keep moving till the raid where it all ends

[honest adder]

Obviously sui is an incarnation of theorick twain and is going to jump straight into the war portal (joke)

[signal bough]

that's why I think she'll be going with us into the wastelands

[sick quest]

In a just world we would toss tasim into a fruman cell for war crimes and throw away the key

[honest adder]

What war crimes did he even commit

[solid ibex]

sob

[signal bough]

Tasim committed no war crimes

[sick quest]

Accessory to a genocide

The dam

[signal bough]

he attempted to commit war crimes

[sick quest]

The only sovereign who could get out of the post-apotheosis political crisis unscathed is soosu

[solid ibex]

Tasim is very complicated but can you really blame him for absolutely everything

[sick quest]

I mean yes

Hes an adult

We can understand the mental health crisis he was going through

[solid ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1345278561094733835/1482806976550408192/IMG_2635.gif

is discord trolling

wheres the embed

[honest adder]

Embed fail

[solid ibex]

😭

[sick quest]

L meme

[honest adder]

W meme

[solid ibex]

there the embed

[sick quest]

W it just went thru

[solid ibex]

lmfao

this so rigged

[signal bough]

the Queen is a pretty great gaslighter and I'm pretty sure she told him 'oh yeah player just sacrificed Aledar and exploded his soul. Against his will, ofc.'

[sick quest]

Yeah but still he attempted the shit at the dam

[honest adder]

Im so confused why the player didnt just tell him in the tourny

Like we literally went to bed in the same dorm

[solid ibex]

depends on whats gonna be added

in beta we were actually be able to tell him

but like nothing much changed

[honest adder]

Bruh

[signal bough]

he tells you he accepted the queen's offer in that route

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah alt route is not finish yet

[slender copper]

I mean the second part definitely happened, the raid has us going into the realm of War, right? (and the canon team is Player, Tasim, Zeph, and Sui)

[sick quest]

People keep bringing up that the queen gaslit him like he didnt still try to wipe out a city and more

[solid ibex]

"Tasim, i cooked aledar's ass and he is 6ft under the ground now"
"Nooooooo"

[solid ibex]

can we talk how conflicted he was till deciding to side with the queen

[signal bough]

this is why we need double gaslighting

[sick quest]

I mean yeah he def hesitated

[signal bough]

'Aledar sacrificed himself'

[sick quest]

Still did that shi tho

[regal spire]

Zeph is so fucked, in the story mode raids

[sick quest]

Like it would take a LOT for tasim to undergo any sort of redemption

[signal bough]

I think he's about equal to any other defector

[mossy widget]

we could tell him and the route was up until true colors iirc and then it defaulted to the lie route cause truth wasnt finished

[slender copper]

Technically he isn't an ordinary class assassin and with his agility abilities and ranged attacks, I think he can help.

[signal bough]

he fought for the queen but then he helped kill the queen

[sick quest]

I mean Zhiraok the second the queen started considering genocide started trying to help people

And he had been in her service for a lot longer

[sick quest]

No other servant of the queen was abt to straight up engage in genocide

GENOCIDE

[honest adder]

Two, majin, and gikyo had no problems no?

[mossy widget]

he still stood by for 20 years letting her do what she was doing and agreed to work under her knowing what she did in the past. its all a matter of manipulation and generational pressure

[sick quest]

I mean Majin and Gikyo were already dead by that point

[solid ibex]

Tasim has understood he has done wrong, he almost gets killed by Sui cause of it, has helped us with the raid, properly grieved at Aledar's grave before going somewhere we dont know
if you need more redemption (which is valid), expect him to make up to us by helping us in Dern

[slender copper]

||two of them are dead so-||

[regal spire]

Bro is not ready, though. Sui is at least completely detached and willing to Kamikaze herself, and Tasim is actually competent. Zeph is just a baby

[sick quest]

Like the fact that Tasim was going to defend the Queen as she wipes out the entirety of auburn forest is crazy

[sick quest]

I mean yeah I need a lot more redemption

[mossy widget]

well he's said hes ready to do whatever it takes to make up for his mistakes so 😭

[mystic remnant]

Let sui 1v1 the jagaubis not for any narrative reason but so I don’t have to

[honest adder]

Ok maybe gikyo but wasnt majin sat right next to her on the stage in hyloch when she threatened to destroy auburn and he did noting

[mossy widget]

its not like he's just gonna fuck off

he helped us defeat anathema canonically

[sick quest]

Like he feels bad abt it (only after realizing that he chose the losing side) after killing rex

And then he helps fight anathema

Like big whoop

[slender copper]

He also got permission to kill off the Nasins so... think that answers it.

[sick quest]

Genocide is genocide

Cook his ass I say

[mossy widget]

i dont think that he feels bad after realizing he chose the losing side, he felt bad the entire time ???

did u read

[honest adder]

^

[sick quest]

That almost makes it worse

[mossy widget]

how?

[sick quest]

He knew he was doing the wrong thing and still chose to do it

[mossy widget]

he was being manipulated and felt horrible abt it lol?

[solid ibex]

you cant seriously be saying this when the player himself has had their fair share of genociding species lmfao

[regal spire]

I mean, Tasim didn’t stay with her purely because of ideals, or his living situation. The Queen is literally the War Beast. And she intends to fight against darkness in the war of realms. Why would you try to kill this very powerful, very capable thing

[mystic remnant]

Queen kinda overloaded him with the “death of all things” speech to be fair.

[sick quest]

Oh yeah u right abt that

[sick quest]

True

[regal spire]

Tasim changed sides because she’s destroying the world

[honest adder]

Its literally the problem of bad or even worse no?

[sick quest]

I just think people are working overtime to defend someone who was going to drown an entire forest full of people

[solid ibex]

okay by how you word it

its like its just Tasim

ofc there is the queen thats fully doing it

[sick quest]

Yeah he still was going to do it

[mystic remnant]

Like on one hand the queen’s whole “I’m going to impoverish countless people because I alone get to decide what’s important and everyone else whose lives were wasted and ruined because of me don’t matter” is only slightly redeemed by the fact that she’s fighting like. The actual concept of the end of the world

[slender copper]

He also said that being in this position he could possibly help change Fruma, and he told us that Anathema could be the only chance they got to helping this war?

[solid ibex]

the decision is FULLY on the queen, its just Tasim to stand his ground since he was also instructed

[mystic remnant]

But on the other hand THATS STILL MAJORLY FUCKED

[regal spire]

Believe it or not, Wynn’s world is constantly at the edge of complete annihilation regardless. Why wouldn’t you follow somebody who—despite being a horrible monster—is actively trying to stop the end of the world

[sick quest]

By this reason we should just serve anathema

[solid ibex]

actually atp

[regal spire]

We should’ve ngl

[honest adder]

Oh shit raw bread is here

[solid ibex]

stop wording it like that 😭

[sick quest]

And this is just some ends justify the means

[solid ibex]

you are saying it like HE IS DOING THE DAM BREAKING LMFAO

[mystic remnant]

Yeah but like. Literally every player is also trying to stop the end of the world and we’re not also oppressing an entire ass civilization along the way

Queen tells you all the suffering is necessary

I ask “how”

[regal spire]

We’re doing far worse things

[sick quest]

Bruh this is “im just following orders shit”

[signal bough]

Tasim's actions aren't unique, many normal Frumans(mostly military) keep supporting the Queen until she is dead, and it seems like we'll get a loyalist redoubt in the form of Deraj prison.
I think the big thing is that he should know better. He should, but his motives for not are understandable

[hybrid gazelle]

also the queen is control freak

at some point she will become a problem

whatever if you like it or not

at the end of the day, she still a realm beast who seek to take control

[sick quest]

Do all of the fruman soldiers that torture civilians, brainwash people, etc deserve redemption because they were following the queens orders

Does the queen alone take the blame

[hybrid gazelle]

so who know wtf she gonna do when war of the relam is over with the portals being binded?

[mystic remnant]

It’s not the control freak part it’s the fact that like. People in the roughworks are being killed by quotas and people in the auburn forest got flooded to extinction in the past and literally no part of hyloch contributes to the queen’s cause

They’re just there to party

[weary sigil]

I think the real people we should be mad at are the stupid council of elves that got our asses into all this mess in the first place 1000 years ago

[regal spire]

Ofc she would, but why on earth would you take the chance at making the already insanely bad problem rn into an even greater problem, by killing her. I say the only time she needed to die was when she started destroying the world, because yeah, there’s no going back from that

[sick quest]

Fr the ancient elves suck

[weary sigil]

And then offered no help except lari

[mystic remnant]

If the queen really wanted to bend all her resources to save the world then why is it that only 2/4 districts suffer for it

[mossy widget]

tasim the whole time tells you that killing isnt necessary...... i feel like him standing by as the queen tries to break the dam is a testament to how much he's lost himself due to the queen's manipulation. this is not tasims character. this is highlighted so many times in the dialogue that he has FORGOTTEN HIMSELF. he has SIDED WITH THE PERSON WHO PUT HIM IN THIS SITUATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. HE FEELS HORRIBLE ABOUT IT. HE HAS SAID HE WANTS TO FIX HIS MISTAKES AND SAYS SUI HAS THE RIGHT TO BE SO ANGRY WITH HIM 😭

[hybrid gazelle]

tbh at first glance it feel like Hyloch not doing anything

Until you realize that it's breeding ground for poltician, powerful figure, or even soldiers

[solid ibex]

the queen fully takes the blame for lots of fruma's problems because much of the problems stem from her and the multiple generations of her brainwashing has made it so lots of people following her actually believe her shit and do evil shit in her name

[hybrid gazelle]

that will ensure Fruma rule stay what it is

because they are ignorance to the suffering of the people below thek

[mystic remnant]

For soldiers - they come from hyloch but there’s nothing special about hyloch that makes it necessary for soldiers to come from there

And for politicians - it’s to ensure her rule

[sick quest]

Thats a really dangerous road to go down

[weary sigil]

Or actively support it

[sick quest]

Only blaming things on leaders and ideologies

[drifting aurora]

tasim has lost his semblance of control and does not feel like he has a way out of it

[sick quest]

Think of the crusades

[mystic remnant]

So she’s evidently not bending every resource to saving the world. She’s using a lot of her resources to maintain her power

[sick quest]

Was Urban alone to blame

[solid ibex]

it will like depend fully on the soldiers if they are to defect against the queen's word or stick by it against the new government stuff

[mystic remnant]

Personally I blame that one hapless soldier in the strong survive

[sick quest]

That doesnt erase their actions tho

[mystic remnant]

I think everything is his fault

[sick quest]

Especially since people did rebel

People have rebelled in Fruma

People have chosen to do good

People have also chosen to do evil

[solid ibex]

i mean duh thats why they will probably stick with the queen

[mystic remnant]

Rip xander my goat

[solid ibex]

yk thats why Tasim stepped down a lot of soldiers canonically???

[hybrid gazelle]

these soldiers likely getting proper trianning and go on to be wing member

so yeah

[sick quest]

Bruh -_-

[mystic remnant]

Yeah it’s just internal security at that point

She’s playing to secure her own power as much as she is preparing for the world’s end

[hybrid gazelle]

so one way or another, they will ensure that Fruma rule stay as what it is

[solid ibex]

its like such a blurred line of morality

[sick quest]

Hyloch is very much an example of traditional authoritarian hierarchy

[mystic remnant]

Her cause is to save the world but she wants to save the world in a position where she can like. Maintain her authority

If all she truly cared about was saving the world she wouldn’t have drowned auburn and tried that same shtick again

[sick quest]

By maintaining a loyal elite you give the lower classes someone to blame as well as giving yourself a shield and people to delegate oppression to

[hybrid gazelle]

Queen reaction when the roughwork workers want 1 day break per week

(she will take down the mistwood's wall)

[solid ibex]

ggs

[mystic remnant]

Me when the queen gives a blessing to the roughworks pest controller (we’re so fucked)

[sick quest]

Im actually very impressed by how the ct designed fruma because its a very convincing authoritarian government

The isolationism the nationalism the manipulation of class the manipulation of holidays the typical designation of an out-group

[mystic remnant]

I leveled five classes to 120. In total I’ve died to majin twice. Meanwhile I’ve died to the roughworks pest controller like 8 times just by trying to wait for karoshi union to start

Who tf set that spawn point

He always spawns right behind me

[solid ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1201054803506245644/1483561770923855872/caption.gif

[sick quest]

If anything the only big fumble on the queens part was giving soosu control of timasca

[regal spire]

I can try to blame her all I want, but it’s literally baked into her instincts, especially because she was essentially guided by Ba’kal. We have some context showcasing how Ana was almost used, but learned that there was more to claiming something later on. She’s treating Fruma like a realm beast treats its own claim, which is basically the same thing as treating its body. Unfortunately, this body is completely separate of the Queen, and all that instinct does nothing to actually build a world that works to her whim, like a body would, and she resorts to totalitarianism.

Her death was inevitable, regardless of if we joined her or not, but it was objectively better to have kept her alive long enough so that Saph and Orphion aren’t going to fuck up the world any more than they have tried to

[sick quest]

Shouldve given Zhiraok Timasca and leveled Auburn

[signal bough]

the auburners would cling to gigastropods

[mystic remnant]

What does auburn do for fruma’s production anyways

[hybrid gazelle]

I think it just serving as tourist spot

[mystic remnant]

The roughworks is its industrial superpower, hyloch produces its politicians, and the mistwoods its spies

[ashen salmon]

the queen keeps it around becuase she thinks it’s pretty

[signal bough]

well it has the immortality fountain

[hybrid gazelle]

The queen seems to nto meddle with it that much

like auburn is the least area for fruma authority

[sick quest]

Tourism, maintenance of fort torann

[slender copper]

All of Fruma's production is in Timasca isn't it?

[sick quest]

Yeah

[hybrid gazelle]

The queen mention that she has fondness of that region

so IDK

[mystic remnant]

Tourism for a closed off country is something

[hybrid gazelle]

maybe we will see more in discovery

[mystic remnant]

Especially considering how few people can even afford to travel

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah I dont think tourism is the best word to use

[sick quest]

I wouldnt be surprised if anathema first arrived in auburn

[mystic remnant]

I mean there’s more to production than material production

[hybrid gazelle]

but I feel like it's likely just the queen's personal choice to leave Auburn as what it is

[signal bough]

internal tourism?

[sick quest]

I disagree

[mystic remnant]

Hyloch is its intellectual centre

[solid ibex]

by all means though, she advanced industry district and it makes sense it would be her region to take care of

[sick quest]

Domestic tourism is a huge industry

[mystic remnant]

With its university and its nobles

[hybrid gazelle]

it would be REALLY funny if Bak'al came from Auburn Forest

[sick quest]

But soosu isnt a great leader/administrator

[solid ibex]

yeah all she does is just invent shit

[honest adder]

That’s literally her whole plot no?

[mystic remnant]

Soosu is funny though

[solid ibex]

thats her entire thing

[sick quest]

Plus it undermines the very machiavellian (taking from the way cesar borgia ran medieval/renaissance italy) way anathema runs fruma

[solid ibex]

especially since she also DOES NOT LIKE HER POSITION AT ALL

[sick quest]

Yeah i love soosu as a character im just talking abt how internal fruman politics works

[solid ibex]

its like a curse for her to even be a sovereign in industry

[mystic remnant]

Typa shit she went through after the roughworks arc

[sick quest]

I think the queen should have (considering the way anathema was governing) just tossed soosu into some weird lab in the mountains

[ashen salmon]

doesnt the sovereign of timasca not have to do much aside from manage factories and stuff

everyone is too busy WORKING to actually cause problems

[mystic remnant]

She’s also in charge of research for new tech on a wide scale

Like the industrees

And the sap research

[sick quest]

Yes but the problem with soosu is she cares about her citizens

Thus allowing the steel feather to form

[regal spire]

I see her fondness for Auburn being like looking at a good photo of yourself. Fruma represents her longing to hold something, much as the realm beasts entire biology shows, and she desires a beautiful world to represent herself. The colors of Auburn might elicit more than just a simple fondness. The orange, yellow, brown, and red of the leaves could very well be interpreted as a subconscious longing for her own claim to have such control, and to be able to represent itself so cleanly.

[sick quest]

Like anathema is very typically authoritarian but she has some blindspots

Auburn being the main one

[ashen salmon]

soosu just thought the steel feather was a glorified homeless shelter didnt she

[sick quest]

Soosu being another

[mystic remnant]

Nice reading but then where does her deciding to destroy it come in then

[sick quest]

The tourney being another

[mystic remnant]

Foreshadowing for her own unravelling?

Destruction of the self in the way she throws aside her love for auburn

[solid ibex]

Soosu is constantly like advancing fruma, and like shes technically more useful to be in industry than in any other place since thats wasting her potential

[regal spire]

It could be foreshadowing, but it could also be her complete denial of origin. She despised her original claim, after all

[ashen salmon]

and it mostly was until the player happened

[regal spire]

To find beauty in one’s insecurities is super important for humanity, but she isn’t a human

[sick quest]

Yeah u right, it was just dangerous for anathema to give soosu that much control

[mystic remnant]

I think it is narratively very neat that the form anathema chose to inhabit when she gained form was human

[regal spire]

She would rather cling to her piece of a claim, and completely forgo all reference to her own origin, rather than have that reminder

[mystic remnant]

I think she does hold a little bit of an admiration for the foremost scholars of war

[sick quest]

I do quite like that Anathema has genuine love, desire for companionship, and affection

[mystic remnant]

Same yeah

[sick quest]

She is a much much better character than Orphion

[regal spire]

It’s in line for a realm beasts to despise a piece of itself, if it doesn’t work to its every whim. It’s like having a body that can’t control spasms, or aches and pains

[solid ibex]

that much control i agree, tho if she had maybe a personality like Zhriaok she would actually be such a great sovereign

[mystic remnant]

Whoever drew that one slightly pensive and wistful expression during the first hyloch quest for her really did well

Pulled on my heartstrings and I had to remind myself she killed syndra

[sick quest]

Her love for auburn, her disdain for soosu, her desire for companionship all led towards her own downfall

[solid ibex]

ofc because well Orphion is now a very complicated character

[sick quest]

Oh yeah for sure zhiraok was a great sovereign

[hybrid gazelle]

Man I like fruma queen

[regal spire]

Ana’s capacity for love is far too psychopathic to ever be genuine. She is entirely capable of garnering perspective, ofc, but she will never feel it. The most she can ever have is always going to be entirely selfish, which is the antithesis to empathy

[sick quest]

Orphion “Ends justify the Means” Realm Beast

[hybrid gazelle]

Such a cool character

[mystic remnant]

I wonder if her line about “maybe I’ll one day reform can you be kind to what shows up” will mean something later on

[uneven basin]

Nah that's the queen orphion isn't that

[sick quest]

Sociopaths can feel genuine love though

[hybrid gazelle]

So complicated tbe writers did not bother to give him a screen time

Lamooo

[regal spire]

Orphion “wouldn’t it be funny if I completely abandoned her lmao” Realm Beast

[mystic remnant]

Some random flower shoppe owner in detlas named “ana “

[sick quest]

Orphion with Dr. Urelix?

[uneven basin]

Orphion just kinda waits around for someone to save his ass

[hybrid gazelle]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1015394899497058304/1500357685877542993/Smol_Ana.gif

[sick quest]

Sociopaths can feel genuine love tho

[uneven basin]

That's more of a commentary on how realm beasts work

[sick quest]

I think Anathema demonstrates many more traits of Sociopathy than Psychopathy

[solid ibex]

Orphion spawning a random obelisk in SE rather than saving his ass from parasite

[signal bough]

admittedly a parasite is eating his light

[sick quest]

We havent rly seen Saphanis yet

[ashen salmon]

what is up with the lutho obelisk

[mystic remnant]

“Lend me some dps morph nothing user, this is a decrepit thousand year old parasite I’m up against”

[regal spire]

She’s not human, though. And she’s psychopathic in nature, rather than the more human concept of sociopath. Her “love” is entirely justified through selfishness, and has very little to do with empathy for others

[signal bough]

I don't get it. Why didn't Orphion simply have Eih eat the Parasite?(Eih is toad. Parasite is bug.)

[regal spire]

She “loves” fruma because it’s hers. It’s her body, basically

[honest adder]

I thought orphion was a super gaslighter as wall like anathema, since he preached to the ancient elves to be in harmony but in twos mirror dimension, we see he corrupted the physical plane as well

[mystic remnant]

Honestly even if lari is annoying it is entirely orphion’s fault for not choosing another champion sooner

[uneven basin]

I'd say taproot and rol 4 show us that the beasts just "do", is the "would you blame fire for burning a tree o water for putting it out" line still canon ?

[mystic remnant]

How do you not drop her after the first failure

[regal spire]

Everything that doesn’t work to be her body is a parasite, a bratty child, a blight, etc. she doesn’t gaf about empathy for others, unless it’s entirely bound to serve her own hold on a claim

[sick quest]

I mean yes shes definitely a classic narcissist meaning her love is fully self-indulgent/anti-introspective but yeah you largely right

But you are saying that empathy = love

[uneven basin]

He 100% is

[sick quest]

Empathy is a big part of love but they are by no means the same

[solid ibex]

okay mentioning orphion and saphanis
its gonna be so interesting how we will deal with both of them

[sick quest]

You can love someone without being entirely empathetic and vice versa

[regal spire]

I think empathy is love. It’s the rawest form of love, to care about the well being of others, separate of your own autonomy.

[sick quest]

Oooooh yes yes yes

[void swift]

just finished fantastic voyage

[solid ibex]

like i thought dern was just as simple as going there to slime dern beast

[void swift]

rip relend man 😭

[sick quest]

I hope we fold orphions ass

[void swift]

im so devastated

[solid ibex]

NOW we have orphion to worry about

[regal spire]

Love has many forms, though

[sick quest]

Empathy doesnt necessarily mean full care

Fuck my gf is much better at explaining this

[uneven basin]

Bro got annihilated

[regal spire]

I define it as something more altruistic, in nature, because it’s just what I’ve grown to understand more

[warm flicker]

dont worry, my friend kevin can defeat him

[regal spire]

Ik what you mean, dw

[sick quest]

She did a whole year long research project at a lab on empathy in medicine

[signal bough]

did you see the tree?

[honest adder]

The obvious answer is we finish the resonance weaver and instantly slide into dern and slime sapahanis and then jump into the tree and slime orphion with the power of dern

[whole river]

cares about them but also doesn’t rebel until the player comes in like Lafayette came to America

[hybrid gazelle]

What make this funnier is that Anathema literally said thst the otjer are not so attatch

[uneven basin]

Raids be like

[solid ibex]

i think like the biggest worry for dern isnt just the realm beasts

[hybrid gazelle]

So wtf did lari do to get Orphion that interest lol

[solid ibex]

its like

[hybrid gazelle]

She can’t be that good

[solid ibex]

what the fuck does saphanis has

[regal spire]

Isn’t it obvious? She was an outcast, and emotionally vulnerable

[sick quest]

Im guessing its void related

[regal spire]

The perfect candidate for religious zealotry

[warm flicker]

she was the only one to try and protest the opening of the portal originally, make of that what u will

[uneven basin]

The implication being she was the best before we came along 😭

[regal spire]

Orphion’s whole shtick is feigning divinity. What better scion than somebody entirely dedicated to you

[sick quest]

Ong

[hybrid gazelle]

Oh man would be nice if we know the deal with light religion

[regal spire]

He made the horrible mistake of not realizing she was super empathetic, though, and that it would tie to ALL creatures lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

So learn more about Orphion as character

[regal spire]

Once orphion realized this, he completely abandoned her. It’s comical how fast he abandoned her lmao

[sick quest]

I mean its also very narcissistic of him

He thought he could take advantage of her empathy

/her kindness

[regal spire]

All the beasts are entirely driven by their desire to feed themselves. Ana was the only one “lesser enough” to kind of break the mold

[slender eagle]

"hmm yes... this elf girl is very loyal to me... she'll be the perfect pawn-- wait What is she doing"

[regal spire]

But, she was inevitable still a realm beast, and it shows very well in her ability to rule

[whole river]

We are attributing a lot of things to Orphion that Orphion has not stated lmfao

[sick quest]

We’re lowkey lucky that anathema was the one to manifest

[regal spire]

He doesn’t need to. He’s a piece of shit

[whole river]

True

[sick quest]

Because orphion or saphanis would be so much worse

[whole river]

But he’s less malicious and more apathetic

[regal spire]

I think that, if Ba’kal wasn’t the one to guide her, she might’ve had a better chance

[solid ibex]

i love how quick we turned against orphion

[regal spire]

Ba’kal fucked her mind so bad by leading her into destroying fruma

[sick quest]

Oh yeah if she had met bob instead shed be goated w the sauce

[regal spire]

She might even be lime zest wit a freezie pop

[whole river]

Thing is Bob wouldn’t be able to do the things Bakal did to help Anathema right?

[sick quest]

Anathema would be fixed by some therapy

[solid ibex]

we need to slime Bakal personally

[ashen salmon]

baby ana in dern arc trust

[regal spire]

2.1 did a better job at letting us realize that Lari is the biggest victim in the entire game. She was screwed over by everyone

Other than Dulla

[solid ibex]

okay speaking of bakal, oh my god imagine the fight with him with all the new mob stuff

[regal spire]

That was her fault

[void swift]

the tree?

[sick quest]

Dude id love that

[signal bough]

there was a tree at the very top of the canyon

[sick quest]

Chainsaw man style

[void swift]

also i was doing this back to back with the feathers fly part 2 too poor ava 😭

all alone and now gotta live with a random ass person

[regal spire]

I wonder if Ana will ever reform, though. And I wonder if the world would even be around for us to actually guide her

[solid ibex]

i feel so bad for her lmao, then again she needs to have better writing for us to really feel that initially

[void swift]

i think i saw many trees

what were those

[whole river]

I believe post fight dialogue implies she can

[sick quest]

It wouldnt be Ana but War definitely can

[signal bough]

grey leaves, dark wood?

[ashen salmon]

i need a full art of ava if only to understand how avos hands work

[sick quest]

Itd just be a new war baby

[whole river]

I need a full art of Ava too

[regal spire]

Yeah, she’s rough rn, but I like what they had going for her. Her writing almost makes her seem egocentric in her ideology, which is a unique way to take somebody so empathetic

[whole river]

Are avos just the rito or different, wonder how they spin it

[regal spire]

It’d be anA

[sick quest]

Lowkey itd be rly cool if (in the fruma epilogue) we saw an egg at the corruption portal

Or a lil caterpillar

[sick quest]

YOOO I FKIN LOVE THIS

[void swift]

dude idk if its js me but the bits of pieces and glimpses of dern in the few quests excite me so much

[regal spire]

I’d fucking ADORE a little fetus crossbreed of a caterpillar just sitting in the portal

[sick quest]

Dude weve been FIENDING for dern for forever

[regal spire]

If we could enter it afterwards…

[sick quest]

God i hope so

[regal spire]

Imagine, no more shitty Annie. You can just fight them whenever now

[slender copper]

...the... a what?