📚lore_discussion

[mossy badge]

Ancient fruman, MAYBE sephanis scion but like prolly not

[hybrid gazelle]

well Two is still mystery mostly but she certainly the second scion of war that we know

so she definitely pretty old

[regal spire]

Hello?

Here

[hybrid gazelle]

and from the queen dialogue

it imply she helping her form Fruma?

let me check

[mossy badge]

Hello?

Here.

[chilly tulip]

Btw where’s the elaboration on Anathema and Ba’kal? Is it from a secret discovery or some dialogue I missed?

[regal spire]

Sovereign OrWho?

Or oooo aaaa

[mossy badge]

Post-raid dialogue ig

Or like what elaboration do u want

[regal spire]

Post raid dialogue

Lemme send the doc

[hybrid gazelle]

post raid

these stuff is like in post raid so unless you wanna run WTP for like

[regal spire]

It appears I do not have the doc!

[hybrid gazelle]

30+ times

I got the doc wait

[mossy badge]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FeIyKgKSvTZc9R2xyJXjibaLKravjEqveKG5sB87iG8/edit?tab=t.9hqwnwnl6qa1

[hybrid gazelle]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FeIyKgKSvTZc9R2xyJXjibaLKravjEqveKG5sB87iG8/edit?usp=sharing

[chilly tulip]

Thank you

[hybrid gazelle]

there

[regal spire]

Now I have Two (Fruma reference) of them

[chilly tulip]

I was confused looking at the wiki which just didn’t have a link to it

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah I think how I read it is that

[mossy badge]

Im surprised its not on the wiki

[hybrid gazelle]

she help her build fruma as we know

but yeah we dont really have much insight on Two's past

beside that one cutscene where we see her memory

but that very vague

Two as what she is likely will expand in the next chapter of the story

if it is dern

if it not then

fuck

she definitely sacrifice something in order to support hte queen

but we dont know what it is

there like a lot of theory on who she is

but it like vgue at best due to the little evidence we have

I guess there Tifris or whatever that guy name I geniunely forgot

Green Two

like just call him that

cause he kinda look like Two if Wynncraft did not have budget to make model

but green for amazing reason

[regal spire]

Lmao, Ana says orphion isn’t to be taken “lightly”

[mossy badge]

"Sephanis will bring dark days" ahh

[regal spire]

Saphanis is not to be taken… darkly?

[main dust]

I'm very keen to see more about Two - Anathema and Two's relationship is so cool - you know one of her post-raid dialogues has Anathema not using Two's (known to us) name and instead using Two's official title?

'It would have been... no easy task. But with... my granted strength... and the guidance... of my Spymaster... it could have been done.'
Like, what happened between the two girlies? Seriously Two and Anathema had some ex-friends/ex-lovers shit and that makes me so sad for what we might end up seeing.

I wish Saph and Orphion would have fucked off man, stupid ass 'We rlly want our aesthetics to cover the planet' asses

[regal spire]

Two’s entire race of people were murdered by the Queen

[hybrid gazelle]

sometime I thinking if I ever should keep my intereptation of Wynnic armor

that the problem is that

we dont know if Two is her own race or not

or is she a human

[mossy badge]

I wonder if they are olm

[hybrid gazelle]

she is very concealed so it very hard to get concrete evidence on what she is

[regal spire]

From what I understand, she’s of the old Fruman descent

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah she is old fruman but we dont know if old fruman consist all human or also other spieces

with one of possibility being olms

[regal spire]

Whether they were Olm or not isn’t as important as the fact that her family and people were murdered by the Queen, in her pursuit of control. I assume she didn’t fight back, because she saw the inevitability in trying

[mossy badge]

Ye but im still wondering 🤔 🤯

[regal spire]

She was always one for clairvoyance, or seeking a productive path in ultimately horrible directions

[regal spire]

If she’s Olm, then we’d have a more personal motivation for Two specifically wanting to infiltrate Dern

[main dust]

Yeah but that doesn't mean it's what Two cares about most - Two might just not even care (or care anymore because it was centuries ago) but acknowledges that it's a bad thing in general and a fault of Anathema's actions because uuuh, maybe we shouldn't systematically wipe out an entire culture for the sake of being VERY posessive about finally having something of our own because it's really good Ana's finally got something that she can control in her life but she's going about it the wrooooooong way.

Two and Anathema potentially know each other personally beyond more than just being the last remaining Fruman
Personally enough that Two and Ana have had more than just 'You killed more whole culture and civilisation' because for Two to be the way she is and the attitude we get from her about Ana means that they had to have had some form of social connection between each other - if not that they definetely knew each other.

[hybrid gazelle]

Being an olm would give her motive to against dark and light yeah

because the thing is that unlike other soverign

two seems to simply align with the queen motive to fight against dark and light

rather than just serving her

but then again she could be just human who know a lot

so we are not sure

maybe future rewrok will give us clue

I mostly have olm to be the top pick because of her color scehem being associate with purple

which tbh not a strong evidence but like

we get what we can get

[regal spire]

From what I interpreted, Two is with Ana out of forced obligation, and a hope of stopping this war. In all honesty, The Queen and Two might just have a “common enemy” in Saph and Orph, with the Queen potentially trying to feign remorse for what she did to her people, and Two simply forcing ambivalence onto herself, as to not distract herself from their current mission

[hybrid gazelle]

also olms literally do not have main character

unelss we counting Garoth

who is like

yeah he certainly exist

he certainly do exist

you know olms is fucked when even villager got an actual named character who somewaht relevant to the story

[regal spire]

Two doesn’t seem to give the slightest fuck about Ana, otherwise why wouldn’t she at least try to stop us from inevitably killing her (which is what we, and all of our resistance members, plan to do)

[hybrid gazelle]

I think Two do give a fuck about Ana but it simply that she let thing play out rather than try to intervene

I do not think Two and Ana relationship is that fucked

but it just there also a risk in getting rid of you

so instead of gambling a chance

she rather just have thing play out and work with on the board

[regal spire]

It certainly felt like that. Two and Ana are both manipulative, and both strained by a traumatic past (Ana being made of war, and hating it, while Two having her people killed by the very being she is helping). They are too () alike to foster a healthy relationship, especially when one of them caused your trauma

In all honesty, Two’s story was very likely going to end with her killing the queen, or sealing her out of Fruma, if she/Ana didn’t die in Dern

[hybrid gazelle]

I do think we likely have a clue on what Two is

later down the line

[paper wyvern]

yeah the only olms we have names for are garroth and anya, one doesnt have a quest yet and is a retcon of another character, and the other is a secret discovery exclusive

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah it just

[main dust]

I don't think the Queen is feigning it really, her actions were done during the time with absolute hardened decision making but she is fundamentally a person as much as anyone else and exists with feelings - she knows she's someone who was 'born' into being the person she is without choice - War is all she knew and it's what she came out to the real world with the experience of.

The Queen is remorseful but she's also asking for remorse to be given to her first and foremost before hearing anyone elses feelings, to her the experience of people fighting back at her is something she doesn't necessarily understand or think anyone understands her feelings on when that's inherently a flawed response from her

Player: I'm sorry it came to this.

Anathema: …remorse. At last.

Anathema: …

Anathema: …but perhaps… the fault is shared…

Anathema: I never could… let go… of what I had… could I…?'

She needed to experience feeling like someone understood her pain before she would be willing to actually reckon with the fact she made some very bad choices.

I think Two is someone who is fundamentally aware of that about Anathema though, the problem is Two is the one Anathema should be apologizing to and Two is in the right for acting the way she does about Ana so Ana's not actually going to be fixed by Two telling her that.

[hybrid gazelle]

OLms do not have unqiue characters

AT ALL

and no we do not fucking count Garoth

the moement you are dungeon boss

that is fate worse than death

[mossy badge]

I think there are more named olms

[hybrid gazelle]

"I hope your character fucking die" is too tame

"I hope your character become a dungeon boss" is way worse

[paper wyvern]

lmao

[paper wyvern]

I dont remember any

[whole river]

Early game got the Fruma quality it’s alr good

[paper wyvern]

the olm are generic enemies in wynnex D

[uneven basin]

Is it that bad ? 😭

[mossy badge]

The secret discovery which requires 2 ppl

[paper wyvern]

and the only secret discovery with a name is anya

[paper wyvern]

thats anya

[hybrid gazelle]

Most dungeon boss are mostly cornballs

[regal spire]

Ana has some level of empathy, but it isn’t productive. She can see what she did was “wrong”, and that it hurt someone, but she is incapable of understanding it beyond the fact that she did something wrong. She can’t exactly feel bad for it, because the extent of her empathy is entirely selfish

[chilly tulip]

I mean guys, it’s obvious who Two is, she’s Ena from hit game ENA: Dream BBQ

[hybrid gazelle]

their entire dungeon make 0 attempt to build them up

like

LOOK AT THE EYE

[mossy badge]

There are more in it i think

[uneven basin]

yeah but not ALL of them

garoth is good

[mossy badge]

Also there's 1 random who got the stashes in olmic city

[hybrid gazelle]

garoth is fine

[paper wyvern]

they arent named

[hybrid gazelle]

but garoth stuck in limbo of like

he aint getting dungeon quest

anytime soon

[paper wyvern]

oh wait nvm

[hybrid gazelle]

and even then I just

[paper wyvern]

we have kaen and adan

[hybrid gazelle]

it strange

Garoth stuck in werid area

[hybrid gazelle]

where I dont think they can make quest out of him

but like

[paper wyvern]

wooohoo 2 more named characters that we know even less about

[hybrid gazelle]

I mean not a quest

I mean questline

to fresh him out

i dont think he need one

but it just would be nice for dungeon boss to be fresh out consider there like entire dungeon about them

[regal spire]

Don’t forget, we’ve got the dude who wrote stuff on the walls in Wynn Excavation Site D

[chilly tulip]

Wait do you think Bob went to Dern because of the power Saphanis obtained?

[paper wyvern]

oh in my defense I never bothered with cryptic keys but wow we have 5 named olm

[regal spire]

I think the Olm—for better or for worse—should be merely shown in quests, and their questline entirely a mystery (like ???)

[hybrid gazelle]

well Bob being the reason to Saphanis power

[mossy badge]

Well we also have witherhead (ig not nvm lmao) and bob

[hybrid gazelle]

is only assume because that what we currently know

it certainly is possible

[chilly tulip]

That’s what I was thinking

[hybrid gazelle]

but as more stuff coming out

[chilly tulip]

Battery bob

[paper wyvern]

bob is half and witherhead isnt named

[hybrid gazelle]

we likely have more option to guess what it could be

[mossy badge]

Ye i realized but half is still is

[regal spire]

They’re an extinct species, basically, with very few remaining, besides Garoth, realistically. What remained was far too scattered to offer any valuable insight on their lore, I would imagine.

Actually, wait, no, we fucking killed Garoth

Why did we do that 😭

[hybrid gazelle]

I think Olms deserve some named character who we actually see

[chilly tulip]

Saphanis got oped by the admins

[mossy badge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071393285500829759/1420520316697968791/togif.gif

[hybrid gazelle]

consider how they are few actually original spieces in Wynncraft

[paper wyvern]

we comitted breaking and entering and then couldnt leave

[hasty beacon]

We like killing stuff

[chilly tulip]

Probably will be expanded on when it gets a related quest

[paper wyvern]

its been supposed to get a related quest for years

[chilly tulip]

Maybe destabilizing time valley or smth

[paper wyvern]

theyre gonna do a dungeon revamp before that gets a quest at this rate

[regal spire]

I actually think seeing more olm similar to Witherhead would be really appropriate

[chilly tulip]

Hadn’t it only existed for like 3 years now?

[paper wyvern]

yes and its been supposed to get a quest the entire time

[chilly tulip]

Fair

[marble lantern]

The bosses of dungeons got mostly* touched up with Rekindled World

[hybrid gazelle]

we did in WE

and that one slay challenge in SE lootrun

[regal spire]

But they just hit you

Witherhead kinda talks

[hybrid gazelle]

oh god that remind me

unironically she need to not talk in dungeon man

[chilly tulip]

I thought only Corrupted Wither talked

[mossy badge]

That one olm that says 1 line of dialogue then goes back to dead in timeless ruin: 🗿

[regal spire]

Lmao, Ik I just said I wanted more of them to talk, but yeah, her dialogue corny af

[chilly tulip]

I haven’t played Sewers in awhile

[hybrid gazelle]

all that aura build up in Ragni's sewer fucking lost when she open her damn mouth

[regal spire]

More of that, please

[hybrid gazelle]

Witherhead in Sewer of Ragni do not talk

[regal spire]

When they remake DS, I hope there are some wynnic ruins and scripts around the dungeon

[hybrid gazelle]

but in dungeon too

becuase

it's dungeon

ofc they talk

sadly

"OOOOO PLAYER YOU STEP IN MY DEEP AND CREPY DUNGEON PREPARE TO DIE!!!!"

[regal spire]

Forgot her yapping and just put her dialogue into tablets or scratches on the wall

[hybrid gazelle]

or some shit IDK

[regal spire]

Unchanged since 1.17 fr

[hybrid gazelle]

we odnt even get explaination to why Akkadicus can talk

like

[regal spire]

Her 1.14.2 dialogue was so funny

[hybrid gazelle]

she can just talk apperantly like s

Sure whatever

i guess having magic just make you develop human vocal cord

[regal spire]

“Human! Turn baaaaack! Skeletooooons!”

How tf are these bosses even projecting their voices like this

[hybrid gazelle]

they use their super dungeon boss power

[regal spire]

They yap nonstop, and they’re, like, 400 blocks away!

[chilly tulip]

I feel like DS and UC overlap too much rn

[hybrid gazelle]

but it come with a price that they are corny as fuck

[mossy badge]

Echoes bro 🤯

[regal spire]

UC is so unbelievably shit 😭

[mossy badge]

Timezones

[hybrid gazelle]

Charoin have potential to be a good addition to the story

if he got remake

but yeah dungeon

dungeon progression suck

[regal spire]

I’d actually really like DS to be sewage related fighting. Corrupted garbage and poop monsters please

Bits and pieces of bones in there, ofc

[chilly tulip]

Maybe have them actually explain Charons deal

[regal spire]

How tf they echoing when they’re behind a damn door

[uneven basin]

still mad they removed the only good part of that dungeon when revamping him

[chilly tulip]

Like Ba’kal attacks Nemract, but Charon is there but also isn’t directly related?

[regal spire]

Have you fought it now?

Good luck! It’s actually impossible at level

[unique jungle]

roughworks ptsd

[uneven basin]

if only x)

[regal spire]

Have you actually fought it, though?

[hybrid gazelle]

like

look at these level range

[regal spire]

They changed it into a worse version of Haros

[hybrid gazelle]

these are dog shit level range 😭

[unique jungle]

like UC?

[regal spire]

Yup

[unique jungle]

impossible at level 23?

[uneven basin]

yeah ? did they change him again in rekindled ? He diedtoo soon to do anything

[chilly tulip]

Maybe DS could have more ghosts and stuff instead of skeletons

[hybrid gazelle]

early dungeon, by the time you do like 2-3 runs you can already go to next dungeon

[uneven basin]

including corrupted version

[unique jungle]

i got a couple keys on my level 32 warrior i wonder if i can do it

[regal spire]

2.2 changed him into Haros but worse, and impossible

[unique jungle]

yeah but skeletons are so cool and iconic to DS

[chilly tulip]

True

[hybrid gazelle]

there being corrupted ghost hold a lot more scary implication

[mossy badge]

Isn't he bugged?

[hybrid gazelle]

HOw do you even fight ghost with medival weapon

like how do you fucking do that LOL

[chilly tulip]

I mean

[unique jungle]

uncorrupted ghost on a stick

[regal spire]

Level 32 might be easier, ofc, but just imagine Haros with a healer 24/7 full healing the boss, and also tanky enemies in a tiny space

[chilly tulip]

We fight spirits all the time

[hybrid gazelle]

there is not even holy water in wynn

[chilly tulip]

Magic

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah for gameplay obviously

but we talk about like

normal ass people

like wtf they gonna do

die?

[chilly tulip]

Maybe have them be bound to an area where they died?

[regal spire]

I tried it out with tribal set, just to see, and it is so unbelievably difficult, if you don’t know that the healer can do what it does

[hybrid gazelle]

even then

[chilly tulip]

So the sewers don’t just overwelhm Rangi

[hybrid gazelle]

having existence of corrupted ghost

and added with 1000 years of war thing going on

IMPLY THAT

[regal spire]

Like, you need to bum rush this thing nonstop, no break, and cross your fingers it doesn’t cast heal, because it actually full heals EVERYTHING

[hybrid gazelle]

Literally everwyhere in wynncraft proably cover in ghosts

like

[unique jungle]

i saw some mob somewhere that was healing really hard in fruma
some like earth resistance mob i had to switch to gales force to kill

[chilly tulip]

Eh Mael has it covered

[hybrid gazelle]

like feral ghosts that want to rip you apart

[chilly tulip]

Probably

[hybrid gazelle]

Mael die

well I mean

he came back

but you know

[chilly tulip]

He got better

[hybrid gazelle]

he only in Twain Mansion

Manor

or whatever that big house is

[chilly tulip]

And Detlas sometimes!

[regal spire]

What’s that ghosts name? Amel?

[hybrid gazelle]

like

if we gonna take that corrupted ghost into modern lore

it like

how do they work like

the entire province gonna cover in ghost 😭

[mossy badge]

And the beyond!

[hybrid gazelle]

and since wek now that the undead are just reaniamted body

and not soul plioted

so like

[chilly tulip]

Maybe not corrupted ghosts then, but instead angry spirits? Like they’re stuck mentally in the time they died

[hybrid gazelle]

are we gonna have case where you can have a ghost and a zombie whe someone die?

is not angry spirits just ghost but angry

[chilly tulip]

Which is what Mael helped solve

[regal spire]

Spirits seem to be tangible concepts in this world, instead of metaphysical thingies. I’d assume that ghosts are intrinsically tied to air magic, which is why Gale was so powerful, and a spirit can essentially take autonomy again, if it’s aware of its elemental connection enough

[hybrid gazelle]

I dont think Mael can handle spirits worth of 1000 years long war

[main dust]

I think this is what marks a split-off between us actually - not a bad thing I think interesting conversations need people that aren't identical.

I believe wholeheartedly in the emphasation of inherently flawed people that end up becoming the villains - not because I think 'all villains should actually be good', I think villains should sometimes get to be villains because that experience in their life was constant torment and the only possible way they could get to 'live' is to become the villain and that can be the only way they'll ever experience identity, individuality.

Her empathy isn't productive in the sense that she was basically just too stuck up in her actions being justified by herself with no one that could actually reflect how bad of a thought process it is to respond to the Warring Realms problem by shovelling herself a little pocket and then enforcing a perpetual status quo to make sure she never loses it.
I think she did the only thing she knew how to out of the fear of losing what she clawed at getting to have, not just her freedom because freedom is meaningless without something to grasp upon after free and she found an area that she could make her home in and she needed to feel safe, she needed to feel like she could have somewhere that wasn't all the screaming and pain constantly - the problem is in pursueing her ability to fear safe and in control of something in her life she also forgot to consider that she can't pursue it through making a monarch society that has imposed classism that she'll do anything to improve upon

Look at how she responded to Soosu, she immediately placed Soosu, a child, as one of the sovereigns of the nation because Fruma is so incredibly important to her, she loves her people and wanted to see technological advancements to make it the most progressive and advanced nation so she could be proud of it but love doesn't matter if every action you do prevents a positive society which is why her being the Queen was not what she should have been, she should have passed the torch but she has that fundamental natural need to have something that no one can rip from her after all her pain.

And she does care about it, she always clearly has - people like that don't just suddenly care because they're dying and can think about their actions even when they say that, she's smart enough to ponder what she's done all her life -she's smart enough to acknowledge her actions because she's always known she wasn't doing it right but she didn't know how to do it better, she dug her hole so deep that she couldn't ever go back on it without the immense anxiety of having to make up for centuries of pain and she doesn't have people that can do that for her - Two was her best shot.

Her selfishness is an obstacle born from a fear of not knowing how to be better, from not having the people in her life to help her become better as a person but it has never meant her empathy was valueless - I defientely think she has a LOT more tha just apologizing to make up for but everything starts somewhere.
It's why her dying is better writing, she never had a chance to become better and she lost her best avenue (Two) for a potential shift because Two is incredibly socially intelligent, it's just her trope of character - I want Anathema to get the friends she should have had because she has more love than she's able to show without also her having to force that smile away from the fact the first thing she thinks when she's on the road to mental wellness is 'This is all your fault.'

She created a hell when all she spent her early years doing was trying to escape hell and she knows it and her death without fixing what she did to the people, to her relationships is the consequence of that - it's really sad - she had the potential.

[chilly tulip]

You know it’s kinda funny how we now have Ana and Annie who are both from Corruption

Who’s next, Annabeth? Annabelle?

[main dust]

An.

[mossy badge]

lol

[regal spire]

Antithesis

[chilly tulip]

Yeah that’s fair, maybe it could be that other people do that magic and Mael was just really good at it?

Like there’s just a lot of exorcists running around Wynn

[main dust]

Wartorn Palace is literally Anathema's Crashout Era

She pressed the panic button hard

[regal spire]

It’s weird putting yourself into the perspective of somebody who entirely believes what they do is justified, especially when it’s so supported by—what is basically—an intense, primal fear instilled into them by not just unfortunately placed instincts, but through their own culture, as well. Ana is difficult to understand, because she physically cannot, and doesn’t have the “human”capability of understanding what it means to be free, which inherently requires you to let go of your earthly attachments, and allow the world—and its people—to influence you. It’s antithesis to her entire being as a beast of influence, which wires them to fight for ownership.

[chilly tulip]

Tbh I would crash out too if an ant got into my house, started destroying everything they could, and then taking out a gun and shooting me

[main dust]

Don't worry, keep writing I'm just formatting stuff.

[regal spire]

I actually like seeing how people interpret “earthly attachment”, because some people just think it means to ignore it, or not care. When, in reality, it’s respecting its inevitable leave, and the love you have for it. It’s reminding yourself that letting go is not removing it from your mind, but being okay that it isn’t made for you, and that it will do as its life demands, which is inherently chaotic, and unpredictable.

[hybrid gazelle]

the funniest shit about wynncraft story is that they manage to make literal fascist dictator a symphathetic character

to A CERTAIN EXTENT

[regal spire]

As sympathetic as she is, and how I wish she wasn’t wired for doom and gloom, girly genocides

I’m sure Netanyahu has a son who loves him dearly

Even Hitler had a life partner

[hybrid gazelle]

You know they wrote a fascist good when there people out there that like "Guys, we are the baddies????" after killing Miss Empress Hitler 5000

[regal spire]

If only Mecha hitler told me that we were fighting dark, and that you are strong enough to join, at the tournament . It would’ve been so much easier

[hybrid gazelle]

I think the issue is that

if the queen did succeed in her plan to bind all the portal

and left with the world on its own

I dont think nothing stopping her from claiming everything

consider everything in Frtuma

and who she is

I dont think she will overcome her nature of being realm beasts

like even what she did with Fruma

she already pretty much turning it into her realm

so like literally who to say she not expanding once everything been clear out

and like if she did, we might not be able to stop her

what happen in Apotheosis

is such

SPECIFIC sets of event

that woud allow in her defeat

but I dont think we will ever come close to beating her if he did help her and turn against her somehow

[uneven basin]

Instead of red spikes everywhere we would get fascism

[hybrid gazelle]

literally hte main issue I see with helping her is like

her entire motive of not expanding is hinge on the fact tha teverywhere else in the world is relate to Dark and Light in someway

in which she does not want Fruma to get involve

so like what if

like WHAT IF

that not a factor anymore

if dark and light just gone

what stopping her then

so yeah not tursting that it's preferable outcome if the queen did succeed her plan

with the player help

[uneven basin]

Would the other provinces be able to resist a fruman invasion ?

[hybrid gazelle]

I think that just another disaster waiting to happen

[hybrid gazelle]

I mean yeah they would like

who the fuck would want that

but then again depend on the circumstance

[uneven basin]

Ragni would fall day 1

Doesn't even need to be a surprise attack fruma has a litteral backdoor

[hybrid gazelle]

I dont think any province can withstand fruma invasion

Wynn would be too eak from constant fighting withcorruption war

and even if they recovered

Fruma army just has more resource and advancement

soverigns alone probably can take over some city

there just so many way fruma can bring down civilization to its knee

changeling spies

its army

soverigns

or just the queen herself

if any city is too defended to invaded with army, they can just send changeling to just sabotages

and create distrust

[main dust]

Hang on, filter is being rude.

I am so fucking glad I enabled windows clipboard history, jesus.

I'm sending the stuff

In response to being asked whether leaving Realm of War was worth it (also by extension having Fruma as her nation):

She physically can understand freedom because freedom doesn't have a specifically tied concept, it can mean a multitude of things and has a multitude of layers above it - I deny the notion that "Human" is a term we should float around to showcase what 'real' emotions are, it's the same behaviour that people use to describe AI (as in actually emotive AI that declare itself as individual in a world where that is a literal fact)

Anathema spent a very large amount of time in a dimension of consant unending torment, misery and outright distilled anger and she was able to perceive what the outside was like, she knew something existed more than pain and was capable of pondering and wishing to be beyond what wasn't in her 'nature' (I speak nature as in she isn't like the person she is in the writing).
She made all those choices as a result of her life being exclusively Realm of War but that never meant she was that person, she was individualized enough from the War Realm entities to conclude she needed to get out of there but also never knew anything outside of it.
My thing is that I don't like to fall into believing that 'You are what your nature decided you' stuff - Anathema is a person who doesn't need to go through some meditational earthly attachments experience to suddenly be more of a person, she is the person that she could have been but it really was the fact she never met anyone who could have helped her become who she was outwardly - instead she met Bak'al who is a fucking White Boy Edgelord and because Bak'al was a terrible experience Two (and by extension Fruma's culture) was doomed to be a terrible relationship because her FIRST experience after seeing the 'World Beyond' was just the exact same stuff she was trying to escape from.

She had no positive influences in her life from Day 1 and when she had the chance to have people that could/would have held her arms up high when she was at her darkest she fell into the same cycle her Realm responds to with - War.
She couldn't figure it out in time, she didn't know what to do.

She will never be justified in it, ever.
She should never forget that she's not justified in it ever.
She should still become someone better as a result of knowing just how horrible she has been - I don't think Anathema is someone that should die, I think she should have disappeared and moved away from Fruma as a whole, it was her mistake and she made too much hurt to try and fix their opinions on her - but she would have been safe to move on, she still would have to face what she did eventually because it was so monumentally horrible and she is someone that has to reckon with her choices, she created a society that destroyed every citizen in different ways extending to her own Sovereigns but if I had the choice and she calmed down earlier with all her stress and anxiety and panic button pressing before instead of the fleeting moments when she knew it was all over and she was going to become extinct then I would have made a different choice than murdering.

Hitler should still die - Anathema should not, but she certainly can't fix herself by fixing Fruma and she has no right thinking that's something she's allowed to do even if she is deeply remorsful about it.

I think if you've watched the show Invincible that ||Omni-Man|| is the best example of someone who made the worse choices and is still allowed to become someone better without being given a free pass to being treated like the sweetest person on the planet - I feel the same with Ana.

[warm flicker]

Wynncraft Alternate timeline where Fruma invades Wynn and Gavel to purge the Light/Darkness's influences

[uneven basin]

And that's how the forgery's future comes to pass 🤯

[warm flicker]

now im gonna write up how such a thing will play out

[hybrid gazelle]

If you think about it

Two is just walking Forgery rework

[uneven basin]

I've been thinking about this

There's so much potential to tie the two (lol) together

[mossy badge]

Elaborate

[hybrid gazelle]

cant believe the queen bless Two with the Forgery blessing

[uneven basin]

Basically ancient rune magic

Two's blessing could give us some insight into what happened at the forgery

There's a chance it's not exactly a blessing from the queen but something more related to her civilization, a rune wielding one

[mossy badge]

Isn't two's blessing more time and reality releated?

[uneven basin]

So is the forgery isn't it?

[hybrid gazelle]

dude I keep forgetting that

blessing take form depending on the indivudal

[mossy badge]

Tbh idk whats up with the forgery

Its just old shit lore

[hybrid gazelle]

so Two must really have obessession with seeing the potentail future and foresight before her ascension

[mossy badge]

Olm cough cough

[uneven basin]

It's a fracture in reality that happened after the runes where combined in a certain way

[main dust]

Also Ana's last few lines before her dying is her asking to die, effectively - 'hatred' is just another word she's using to describe herself out of self-deprecation and regret that her life was miserable and doomed to become nothing but pain for others and herself

'...I do not want... to be this hatred... anymore.'

[mossy badge]

Do we have which runes and which combo?

[uneven basin]

Nope but we could speculate the the creation of the forgery is related to the cataclysm in which case it would be Nii az and ek

[mossy badge]

Cataclysm? Gylia's?

[uneven basin]

No the collapse of the old gavel civilization

[mossy badge]

Spider ruins?

[uneven basin]

Yes ! And teachings of old

[mossy badge]

Interesting

[uneven basin]

Old frumans old gavelians and the olm all had in common that they independently (?) discovered runes and used them for various (reality breaking in the case of the gavelians (forgery) and olm (I remember reading that the state of what's beyond the EO is attributed to rune experiments but I can't prove it) ) purposes

[drifting aurora]

the latter's an interesting concept but not something the game says

[mossy badge]

Ye they experimented on the colossi too

[hybrid gazelle]

there also twain magic

that Bak'al has trouble with figuring out

[uneven basin]

Yeah I think I got it from some old speculation on the eo

Something about how it's a wall and beyond it lies a fracture in the realm of physicality may indicate some experiment went awry

[drifting aurora]

i loooove rune lore you have no idea

[warm flicker]

oh you love rune lore? Then tell me - did the Olm worship runes like some kind of religion?

because im trying to get a grasp on their religion and it seemed to involve runes

[uneven basin]

I think Marius discovered runes by digging into olm stuff and that the practice didn't catch on caus e the twains just died without transferring anything

[drifting aurora]

🤐

[mossy badge]

Tbh would make sense, the runes are associated with gods in fruma

[warm flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/skeleton-drop-gif-1982649100088909979

[main dust]

Nawwww - zipper mouth emoji is no fun!

[uneven basin]

Be interesting if it is and it is also what opened the dern portal, it'd parallel how the elves were pushed by their religion to open the light portal

[warped horizon]

why is the aelumia citadel/royal palace music flamenco inspired

i didn't realize the area was supposed to be themed after spain

[hybrid gazelle]

I remember hwy I stop working on this model

I fucking hate fallen

[drifting aurora]

yk its interesting. we dont actually see much evidence

of the olm wielding runes

[hybrid gazelle]

aren ot they supppose to have mastery over magic

and notjust cosmic magic

[warm flicker]

why would they they got time magic

[drifting aurora]

though that could just be chalked up to it being old content

[hybrid gazelle]

I fucking love how

in early dungeon

timelost

[warm flicker]

me when my niche interest is old content

[hybrid gazelle]

have us pit against cosmic magic user

[drifting aurora]

well yea sure

[uneven basin]

There's the olmic rune quest but yeah

[hybrid gazelle]

and then alte game we have majin who blew up

[drifting aurora]

right yeah, theres the 1 instance which does make clear that they did have runes

but beyond that, nothing

[warm flicker]

timelost is such a cool dungeon, shame theres no extra lore or quests surrounding it

[drifting aurora]

im not like making a lore point or anything to be clear

i just find it interesting

[hybrid gazelle]

I still wonder like

does space magic exist

like

not cosmic

I mean space as in

the concept of empty space

or is that part of time magic

[warm flicker]

like void?

[hybrid gazelle]

no not the void

it just concept of like

empty space

like you know

Space

[main dust]

Confirm that Orphion and Sapahnis are going to meet at Selchar after all their territory shit to eat fish together or I'm dipping

[warm flicker]

i think cosmic covers everything in space and void covers space itself

[hybrid gazelle]

not cosmic space

I meant the concept of like

[drifting aurora]

in another world... i would have liked eating fish with you

or something like that idk

[main dust]

The reference was wild.

[uneven basin]

Maybe something happened and that made them reject runes as a whole ? Maybe some sort of cataclysm Hence the only evidence is buried ? okay yeah it's been buried by dern but what if it wasn't

[warm flicker]

"so long, and thanks for all the fish"

[main dust]

That made me wake my husband up, shit

[hybrid gazelle]

"a boundless three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction."

is that what cosmic magic is?

[main dust]

I would have loved doing laundry with you Evelyn Waymond type shit

[hybrid gazelle]

cause it pretty much cover space magic

it just space magic sound stupid as a nme

[spring kernel]

feed a realm a fish

[drifting aurora]

i do enjoy knowing things about lore

having stuff like magic system rules defined is real nice

[warm flicker]

sounds like my blue + purple crystal theory, where blue = time and purple = space

[hybrid gazelle]

I feel like cosmic magic could technically be space machine

but with better name

fuck it I just gonna act like cosmic magic is space magic

[drifting aurora]

space machine...

[hybrid gazelle]

Majin already like

teleport and shit

and having Majin and Zhiraok having blessing being opposite of one and another is fitting

the other got space, the other got time

[uneven basin]

Majin having a cosmic blessing yet not giving us much information is killing me Majin what please did you learn anything 😭

[hybrid gazelle]

I think blessing just come to the soverign nataurally

if spacem agic got a cool name like cosmic magic

can time magic got a cool name too

like temporal magic?

DUDE man

I gotta go back and write magic system

fuckkkk

[uneven basin]

We should start by giving the realm of light a cool name like dern

[warm flicker]

well dern is an old english word for concealment or secrets, so why not use an old english word for the realm of light?

[mossy badge]

Is "sheen" an old english word?

[warm flicker]

i found an antonym for dern is overt, and its old english word is Ovrir

[spring kernel]

The darkness being called dern like this is quite funny

i guess darkness just sounds worse

Nobody says Darkness Beast

[hybrid gazelle]

the only name for Light is just Lux

that literally it

that the only optional name

[light zealot]

Meldian is an Old English word for declaring or announcing

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/meldian

[warm flicker]

yeah but lux is too predictable

[light zealot]

Which kind of fits

Since the Light is known to be big and flashy

[spring kernel]

Can we just start calling them the dawn and dusk

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah sure

[regal spire]

Can we call them the Sean and the Musk?

[spring kernel]

Orphan and Saffron

[regal spire]

Horchata and Samba

[mighty fox]

Just a thought, but is the queen actually that bad? I think she really does want best for her province and the world but just doesnt understand that the ends dont always justify the means

[regal spire]

She genocide an entire civilization worth of knowledge and peeps, and then tries to use their magic, but then realizes she can’t do it anymore, because the only people who had any idea wtf it did are dead

She’s not good by any means, but she isn’t directly antagonistic ig. She’s a fascist

[spring kernel]

She kinda murdered thousands of people and is a dictator

[mighty fox]

I feel like I missed that part somewhere. I got the royalist narrative I think.

[summer bluff]

Gikyo the hollow/hallow.. as in hallowed ground... as in holy

I'm going insane

[mighty fox]

She basically does anything to stay in power.

[regal spire]

The form she has now is one that isn’t stable to rule, and would never be able to do so. However, having experienced what she has, the potential for change—if she ever developed another form—is entirely possible, given all she would have known wouldn’t have been war. She’ll form into a new mind, and it might be one capable of handling just being a bystander in the world

Well, she might form into a new mind

Idk if she’s gonna do that before the inevitable end of the world

[summer bluff]

Lake gitephe has a village in it
Fort torann is built over a temple
Two once roamed the mistwoods ruins, knows what they are
The roughworks don't even have a true name, the citizens working till death

Sheeeee is a bad ruler and person

Imagine being from someplace called The Industrial District while your friend is an auburn forest resident

[regal spire]

That’s the thing, though, she’s a bad “person”. Maybe she’d be better in a different form?

Like, a froggy, or a bug

Wait, she is a bug

[spring kernel]

She eliminated an entire civilization

[summer bluff]

All Lore Leads To Croaquin

[ashen salmon]

she was going to eliminate another

[mighty fox]

He's paid by two right?

[regal spire]

I don’t blame a changeling from not wanting to change out from froggy form

[ashen salmon]

i’m kinda curious about that guy who was pretending to be lecade

like whether he had any connection at all to the changelings in the mistwood

[summer bluff]

Escaped changeling

[regal spire]

Probably just changed into a rat and ran away

We see plenty of rats in game, maybe one was a changeling

Oh, lemme check if the general knows what a changeling is rq

He does not

[hybrid gazelle]

If you need to do district cleansing to stay in power

I think that talk about you as a leader

Not fucking once

Btw

Multiple

If someone use dictatorship as a way to rule

Then I think you can list some major problem

[uneven basin]

To the queen fruma is kind of like simcity she doesn't consider her subjects autonomy

[hybrid gazelle]

Yeah

It’s her realm

It’s her body

Every subject is like blood cells

[whole river]

If the player wasn’t such a badass she would’ve ended up suiciding Fruma over one of the other realms after poking the bear too long

[hybrid gazelle]

She only c are about fruma as a whole

[regal spire]

Anyone remember making old Fruma theories?

I genuinely used to think she was just gonna be a magical lady

[hybrid gazelle]

I though she going to be someone who work for Dern or benefit from war between light and dark by the use of twilight or some shit

[regal spire]

That seemed to be the path the trailer went, at first, and I similar ideas before the ARG and all that

But, the first recover the past iteration? That shit just made me think she was a big evil woman, and she has had multiple evil women do the same type shit

I figured fruma was gonna be mid game 😭

[hybrid gazelle]

Back then many people thought eye motif is exclusively Dern

But then the eye as a whole is not only just Dern

But light and war

[regal spire]

Tbf, motifs were sparse back then

All we had were the occasional hero motif, and, like, a few isolated areas

[dawn moon]

i hope we get to see early development stuff from fruma (like. back when it still had the imperial guards who were level 60) cuz i wanna see how different fruma is now compared to the original plans

[rustic nexus]

hah

they think there were original plans for fruma...

[clear scaffold]

i did think the queen was playing both sides

like helping light and dark

[spring kernel]

There was never a level 60 fruma

You may see old fruma concepts at some point, but there was never anything that old

[hallow flame]

Y’all ever just realize that there’s an island inhabited by goblins pretending to be humans

And this is never mentioned in the lore

No quests

[summer bluff]

let's stick gikyo there

[hallow flame]

No secrets

Just ‘humans’

[summer bluff]

That's what happens when the villagers start genociding you

[hallow flame]

Fair

[muted crypt]

do we think Fruma was in contact with Bob

[hallow flame]

No

[muted crypt]

“Intel has reached me from a trusted source”

[hallow flame]

This is Fruma we’re talking about

They would not tell Bob that

What would Her Majesty gain from it

[muted crypt]

I mean, unless they saw in Bob what they see in us

[formal bridge]

yeah I don't see the queen ever wanting anything to do with bob

[muted crypt]

Her Majesty is very invested in all affairs regarding the realm war

[hallow flame]

While that is true, she’d see Bob as unable to really do anything

Which is true

[spring kernel]

She herself is planning a voyage into the realm of darkness, so helping someone who is also do that wouldn't be out of the question

[formal bridge]

the only reason she's interested in the recruits is because it was an intentional albeit very strange way of making something special out of it

[muted crypt]

Bob entering Dern might be something she takes interest in

[spring kernel]

but contacting an outsider might be too off limits

[hallow flame]

Yeah

[formal bridge]

I could see Two doing it

not the queen

[hallow flame]

Maybe

[muted crypt]

thats what I mean

someone from Fruma, likely Two

[hallow flame]

But definitely not the Queen

[formal bridge]

yeah Two is a lot more likely to be doing her own thing

Queen would never hear about it

[muted crypt]

well, Bob writes that he realizes his attempts are futile BECAUSE of the information this informant gave him

[hallow flame]

Two just dropping lore to Bob for shits and giggles:

[muted crypt]

so whoever it is is keeping track of the events of the realm war

[hallow flame]

How do we even know he made it to Dern

I see it just as, if not more likely, that he was killed by The Eye

[muted crypt]

possible, since the Eye remains intact when we enter

and it guards the portal

[hallow flame]

Yes, plus Fantastic Voyage showing The Eye while we are searching for Bob, linking the two

Also, who’s the say Bob’s informant wasn’t an Olm?

They still live by this time

And Bob was most definitely part Olm

[muted crypt]

Bob went into that portal about 20 years ago

[hallow flame]

Yes

WynnExcavation Part D shows Olm still live

[muted crypt]

werent the olm practically all extinct by then

some do but

idk

also interesting

Two says 2 decades ago is when the Dern beast grew in power

Bob disappeared 2 decades ago

[hallow flame]

And Bob’s mom lived until about 230 years ago

Wait

130

[muted crypt]

thats why I think he may still be alive

[hallow flame]

I think he’s pretty clearly dead

Remember, we had to reincarnate him

[muted crypt]

that isnt really a reincarnation tho I thought

[hallow flame]

Not clone

[muted crypt]

like it’s just a “simulation” or something. ur not fighting his actual reincarnated self

[hallow flame]

Look

If Bob appears in the Dern update as being alive and well, I will eat my shorts

[muted crypt]

I dont think he’s well

he’d likely be being used by the Beast

[hallow flame]

Please, Salted

[muted crypt]

whether consensually or not

[hallow flame]

Give us a Possessed Lari fight

[muted crypt]

idk tbh

[hallow flame]

Let us destroy her

[muted crypt]

Saphanis doesnt seem to care about manipulation

as much as Orphion

so it might just straight up kill Bob and Lari on sight

if it could

[hallow flame]

I just realized

Why does Ba’kal fight for her

Wasn’t he corrupted

Y’know

Anathema’s thing

[muted crypt]

he is War’s Scion

yea

idk why he’s with Saphanis ngl

dude is just evil to be evil atp

[hallow flame]

Messy divorce?

[muted crypt]

did they ever mention that he betrayed Anathema

[hallow flame]

I don’t think so

[muted crypt]

iirc they just say “lost” scion

so perhaps he’s being influenced

[hallow flame]

But imagining it as a messy breakup is 100x funnier

[shut mist]

Bak al is wars lost scion

[muted crypt]

also Scions arent really defined by their beasts

they are individuals free to make their own decisions

so Bakal doesnt exactly have to operate under Anathema should he choose to just be an evil shit

[shut mist]

Him and anathema had conflicting ideals

[muted crypt]

perhaps he saw the necessity of War

unlike Anathema who wanted it to end

[shut mist]

Anathema wanted to escape it

[muted crypt]

maybe he considered her to be abandoning her position

her “duty”

[drifting aurora]

never stated outright but given the way she talks about him in the postraid dialogue . . .

[warm flicker]

professional hater

[muted crypt]

so he’s just being an asshole got it

[shut mist]

She straight up tell us to murder him

[muted crypt]

he’s not being influenced at all

[muted crypt]

well she tells us to murder everything atp

and I hope we do

[shut mist]

Specifically him

[muted crypt]

i want orphion GONE

[marble lantern]

I would kill Bakal even without her directions. I am a force of nature.

[clear scaffold]

talking to the queen she really does kinda have faith in the fruma recruits

probably tasim and the player mostly

[warm flicker]

top 3 people i think would be good therapists for sui:
1: Seaskipper captain, man exhales mental clarity, he is happy just where he is, and is an expert at giving out advice
2: Ragni King, remembers every recruit who comes thru Ragni, clearly cares for others and has many years of advice to give
3: Rusty Barkeeper, has a whole "it is what it is" vibe to him, may not fix sui's issues but can lead her to accept her losses

[snow kiln]

TLDR; Humans are buttcheeks to talk to

I also think the doguns would be good to talk to

[summer bluff]

Top 3 people I think would be WORST therapists for sui:

1. Dr. Picard. This man does NOT gaf if he traumatizes you while digging for memories, would LOVE to get his hands on someone with intact memories
2. Dullahan. Being locked away in a castle room with only your anger and ghosts to keep you company will turn even the most justified people into mass forest tyrants. He will probably get her to commit revenge
3. Seigfried. Broski would NOOOOT car

[slim belfry]

I want to have the eye pet to talk about my issues

[cedar kernel]

0. Saphanis

Or orphion

[clear scaffold]

siegfried is not even the worst choice

dr legendary is by far worse

[chilly tulip]

So is Anathema’s Fruma around 1000 years old? Like when do we think the Old Fruma was conquered

[vestal rivet]

I assume she showed up in 0AP

[chilly tulip]

Well wasn’t she still in there until Ba’kal helped with the whole human form stuff?

[vestal rivet]

for all I know she showed up later though

[chilly tulip]

Or was she just a butterfly until then

[vestal rivet]

she's been conscious for a LONG time

for Fruma... I want to guess 800 years old if Her Majesty didn't just take over immediately?

[chilly tulip]

Huh

I wonder how old the Old Fruma was then

Like if it was continuously one state I mean

Because we know they at least had some interaction with the desert civilization, so they were OLD

Maybe they could’ve interacted with the Olm considering the proximity to Fruman colonies

[vestal rivet]

I thought they warred with the olms lol

[mystic fulcrum]

Olm probably lost the war with old fruma and have to retreat to silent expanse

[paper wyvern]

Royal age presumably starts when she fully takes over so that would be 800 years as fruman queen plus 200 years before that doing who knows what

[fresh orchid]

I presume that at 0 AP, Bak'al goes into the Corruption/War Portal, meets Anathema. Bak'al becomes her scion, starts gathering up rune lore and knowledge, eventually builds the Resonance Weaver and Anathema can venture outside, into Fruma.

I don't think the Resonance Weaver was an easy project, given how much time it took Soosu to restore it - not create one. Bak'al doesn't exactly strike me as an inventor, so I wouldn't be surprised if it geniunely took a century to build it.

Then some decades or maybe a century from that, and the Her Majesty attains control of Fruma.

[stiff sail]

why was elise old and syndra young? werent they in the same age on the flashbacks?

[shut mist]

Syndra wasent young ?

[stiff sail]

idk she seemed alot younger than elise

[shut mist]

Ig she aged better

[stiff sail]

prolly

[fathom plover]

Prolly cuz Elise worked in a factory for most her life

[shut mist]

True

[fathom plover]

Whist Syndra kept training and stuff

[fresh orchid]

It could be that there's some age gap - Syndra could've gone the factory while in her 20s, Elise in her 30s, for instance. And yeah, Syndra kept up her health.

[clear scaffold]

i wonder what made bak'al defect

[fathom plover]

Maybe he got coerced by Saphanis

[clear scaffold]

guy's too easy to manipulate so probably

wonder how annoyed anathema was

[shut mist]

Bro got the anime treatment and was told he could get revenge on bob by saphanis

[fathom plover]

Considering he was like the first human or smth she encountered, she likely felt very betrayed

[clear scaffold]

honestly... when i did the raid i was more friendly to anathema because goddamn she did really try

[shut mist]

She kept both sides at bay

[clear scaffold]

i hated her methods but she did get a lot of issues that were just like "can you ALL JUST STOP?!"

[unique pumice]

Try in the sense that mao zedong tried to save china

[clear scaffold]

to be fair better than the other two

one just destroys everything the other leaves his main follower on read for 1000 years and would write her off in a heartbeat

[unique pumice]

She was willing to wipe out a quarter of her province's population

Over a small rebellion

[clear scaffold]

i disagree with the methods but she was the best option

[unique pumice]

For who? The world? Fruma? Because there are much better options out there

[fathom plover]

Yeah I dunno if I missed a major part of the lore, but why was she so restrictive and legit abusive to her people at times? Wouldn't she want to get them on her side incase she ever needs more people to back her up?

[unique pumice]

She didnt even really help against the corruption or the decay

Accomplished damn near nothing

[shut mist]

She cant do anything about the corruption

[unique pumice]

You're telling me a being that can grant magical blessings and has insane powers couldnt bolster wynn's army to fight off the corruption

[clear scaffold]

actually it's canon the light and dark idiots didn't go to extremes solely out of fear of her

[shut mist]

You cant win

Against the corruption

[drifting aurora]

the wynn recruits:

[clear scaffold]

she does also admit to seeing hope in the wynn recruits

or at least a few

[drifting aurora]

you can argue over the effectiveness etc etc, whatever, but thats not nothing

[clear scaffold]

i would like to point out the player has done a LOT against dark alone

[unique pumice]

We dont even know if the player is from fruma do we

[clear scaffold]

the player is

[shut mist]

We tipped the scales a decent bit

[unique pumice]

Is that confirmed anywhere?

[clear scaffold]

... other than the fact the player went in the carriage?

[shut mist]

The tutorial.

[drifting aurora]

the game treats you as a fruman recruit throughout and does not do anything to imply otherwise

[clear scaffold]

I do wish the player got more backstory but they are from fruma

[unique pumice]

Recover the past is what made me think otherwise and there could be another explanation to the player's origins

[clear scaffold]

something something fourth wall

honestly the backstory is probably needed a tiny bit solely due to the player getting more of a personality

[shut mist]

I do wonder what anathema saw within us

[clear scaffold]

without sounding stupid i'd like to point out the player is up there for one of the more powerful recruits.

[shut mist]

Yeah but

[clear scaffold]

arguably reaching bob level solely in the class they picked

[shut mist]

She says smth interesting

She knows we could fuck up saphanis and orphion

Cuz they overlooked something

[wooden oxide]

Before starting fruma we were among the strongest recruits, but by the point we fight anathema I think we're at similar level to scions

[unique pumice]

Also i feel like this is more of a convenience thing than doing it solely to look out for wynn. Get rid of the people who can stand against your totalitarian rule to a province where they probably won't make it very far

[clear scaffold]

wish i could see all anathema dialogue right now

[shut mist]

Theres no solution to the corruption

[unique pumice]

Theres the google doc

[clear scaffold]

to be fair i was more going with bob solely due to his mastery of the classes.

[drifting aurora]

i hope they get it on the wiki sometime soon

[clear scaffold]

ooh where

[unique pumice]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FeIyKgKSvTZc9R2xyJXjibaLKravjEqveKG5sB87iG8/edit?tab=t.0

I dont think it has everything

But it has most stuff

[drifting aurora]

no, it has everything

[unique pumice]

Oh sick

[drifting aurora]

but formatting is awkward

[clear scaffold]

thanks, i didn't want to replay the raid each time

[drifting aurora]

in certain places

[shut mist]

The source of our strengh is a cavern ... where should be something... but its empty

[unique pumice]

But this was the most interesting part

To me

[shut mist]

Ye

[drifting aurora]

it sure is something

[shut mist]

Same for me

[clear scaffold]

i am expecting player backstory

[drifting aurora]

you may have some crumbs

[clear scaffold]

i genuinely feel like sovereign two does kinda like the player

[shut mist]

war’s dropped scion

Thats us !

[clear scaffold]

i'm fine with some crumbs tbh i get it, rpg player can roleplay anyone but i kinda want there more story for them

but yeah the player being a powerhouse with an extra honestly helps

it doesn't feel like the player's a mcguffin just an exceptionally strong force

heck, the queen does kick the player's ass

[wooden oxide]

I see, yeah we're basically up there. Going back to the original point, anathema saw that we've basically become strong enough to become a viable alternative to her for the war of the realms, especially since we saw almost all of wynn (except dern) so we know what the war of the realms entail. That's also why she entrusts us with that task in some of her dialogue

[shut mist]

And we kick hers right after

[clear scaffold]

actually no she does it to us till we get to the raid.

Remember rex has to save us. (thank god the player's loss makes actual sense)

[shut mist]

Her shell was shattering

[clear scaffold]

yeah which i can now see why sovereign two was a lot more... fine? with keeping us around after

[shut mist]

She had no other options

[clear scaffold]

we shattered her shell and then immediately nearly got turned in to a stranger things style death

[unique pumice]

differnet backstories based on your class could be cool. i dont normally the chosen class acknowledged in game (or i have just forgotten where it is) but there was a secret discovery or something that had different dialogue based on the class you picked which was neat to see

[shut mist]

I dont remember anything bout that

I did all secrets like 3 times

[unique pumice]

maybe it wasnt a secret

but it was something where if you were archer/assassin/warrior it said that the weapons resemble yours?

i dont have the best memory

[drifting aurora]

remains of the cursed probably

[unique pumice]

ah yeah thats the one

[clear scaffold]

wonder if tasim will keep his badass wings though

[unique pumice]

i like to see the classes mentioned in the lore

[shut mist]

He will

Its permanent

[clear scaffold]

so it's possible the player does go to dern with an actual ally

wonder if tasim and lari will get along

[shut mist]

From what we saw with soosu at least

[clear scaffold]

i'll be honest i thought it was just he drained all his power in to the charm

[shut mist]

Yeah but its like they got 1000 mana and regen 1/s

And they used all of it

[clear scaffold]

although sui recovered quickly that was so funny

immediately uses her recovered power to nearly murder tasim

[shut mist]

She is a manaweaver

[clear scaffold]

least we got a replacement for theorick in the ice wizard department

[unique pumice]

Yeah she was talking about how she doesnt deplete mana (or get tired, idk if thats the same thing)

[clear scaffold]

and is actually better as a person

[shut mist]

It seems she has nearly no limits

[clear scaffold]

her limit is just essentially overpowering firepower

[shut mist]

Theo killed famillys

[clear scaffold]

yeah, sui can replace him and they get a MUCH better ice wizard

like sui at least kills out of slight neccessity

[shut mist]

Theorick just froze eveyone cuz corruption

But like

Really ?

Look at detlas

Its fine.

8 golems and corruption is fucked

[kind frigate]

One Trance melee and the corruption is gone

[dim plover]

I'm considering doing Fruma quests

[clear scaffold]

people say the player has no chance against orphion but tbh i wonder if there will be some kind of conflict

[dim plover]

Every day passes and the temptation grows stronger

[clear scaffold]

just do fruma

[dim plover]

I want to farm Fruma world events lmao

[clear scaffold]

the alt route is not worth the wait as much as people think

[kind frigate]

Would we have to kill both orphion and sephansis when dern releases

[dim plover]

How though

Like, realistically

[clear scaffold]

world of light, they're fighting each other xD

[kind frigate]

Just kill them both, and the world would be fixed

[clear scaffold]

we're doing super smash brothers ultimate style

[dim plover]

It's been over a month since Fruma released, I'll just succumb to sunk cost and wait a little longer

[clear scaffold]

you're in the middle as they're trying to murder each other and SOMETIMES trying to kill you

[kind frigate]

Ophion and sephansis 2v1 would be cool

[dim plover]

Unless the dialogue actually changes story events there is no way it will take much longer to be done lmao

[clear scaffold]

it's going across multiple quests which is i believe a new thing entirely

most quests you need a item or something to do that

[dim plover]

Do we even have the capability to take down one of them

[kind frigate]

Is the giant monolith in Lutho plot relavent?

Yes

Orph we killed

[dim plover]

We struggled against a weakened Ana and that's about it

[dim plover]

What

When

[kind frigate]

Not killed but beat

[dim plover]

The guy was fine after the battle

[clear scaffold]

Honestly, the fact we killed ana kinda proves it's possible for the player

[kind frigate]

^

[dim plover]

Canonically speaking we didn't actually like, fight Orphion

The entire health bar was the parasite

[kind frigate]

But if we killed both of them, wouldn't the world be saved then?

[dim plover]

We didn't do a scratch on the funny dog although maybe that's because the player didn't want to attack him idk

[clear scaffold]

i would also like to add it's seemingly canon that the people who did the raid, is the player, zeph, sui and i believe yus?

like this is the first time we get a concrete idea who actually fought a raid boss

[dim plover]

(Orphion also wasn't attacking us in the battle)

(lore-wise)

[kind frigate]

My guy was napping

[dim plover]

Although that might have changed in his new version

idk

[clear scaffold]

no we do damage orphion a lot

it's just also shaking the parasite off

[dim plover]

Back when Orphion still had the old fight CT confirmed that all the attacks in Orphion's battle was collateral damage

[clear scaffold]

naps to restore his strength

[dim plover]

They did say that we barely scratched Orphion though

[kind frigate]

To use his bad breath to kill parasite

[dim plover]

The two health bars are the parasite's

[kind frigate]

Well, we progressed so much more in strength lore wise that it may be possible

[clear scaffold]

probably does the equivelent of a long rest and resets any damage

[kind frigate]

It's a lv 80 raid

[clear scaffold]

it's probably a couple months between orphion raid and ana raid

[kind frigate]

We're using the device we stole from ana to kill morphion

[wooden oxide]

If you think about it, phase 1 is just taking down the overtaken bar to shake off the parasite, but it's with orphion instead of a player
So yeah, all damage went just to the parasite, not the host (in both cases)

[kind frigate]

Did the parasite duplicate itself?

When it sheds, there are a lot of them

[clear scaffold]

the parasite did lay eggs in forest

[twin citrus]

i think thats more like its offspring instead of duplicates

[kind frigate]

That's disgusting

[twin citrus]

gotta spread darkness somehow

[clear scaffold]

seriously though the player could defintely fight the dern beast with the strongest people in the world helping

but yeah solo... that'd be a quick fight... and not a good one

[kind frigate]

What is the parasite doing in the first levigar quest

The power plant

[clear scaffold]

sapping energy

[kind frigate]

Battery powered parasite

[drifting aurora]

you forgot tasim

idk how you managed that

[clear scaffold]

oh yeah idk why i think i swapped tasim and yus

it does give me hope for single player raids which have been mentioned a few times but yeah, i'm glad we get a canon party for one raid

[wooden oxide]

It's already pretty telling when Two's visions of light/dark overtaking the provinces has lvl 200 enemies where we basically can do nothing about them other than run
We're still powerless against them

[clear scaffold]

the hook horrors?

[wooden oxide]

And the angel knells yeah

[clear scaffold]

i was actively fighting those

did not look at the level they were getting a fight xD

[wooden oxide]

[kind frigate]

Trust, use them to farm 120+ lv mobs for daily

[clear scaffold]

they're levelled high but the actual damage/health isn't too bad

[marble lantern]

the basic enemies in there died easily

idk if the bell can even attack

[twin citrus]

the bell doesnt attack as far as im aware. i tried going up to it a couple times and it didnt do anything to me

i dont even think it actively goes towards the player like the which wroughts flesh

[drifting aurora]

i think it has a shockwave attack

[light zealot]

I assume that citizen NPCs HP being uncharacteristically high is not a canon thing, right?

[summer bluff]

Timascan citizens have a vastly lower hp than the other fruman citizens, which feels like a fun bit of lore

[azure tangle]

i mean, their skin's worked so thin they see the bone. She grinds them up from on her throne.

[warm flicker]

silent expanse is 7 years old, i remember when it was brand new and the talk of the server

how dare time pass like this

[summer bluff]

Has anyone tried to sing the lyrics for that yet?

[light zealot]

Holy frig.

Echoes of Change.

What a quest

[shut mist]

yep

one of the better ones

[light zealot]

That might be the largest scale battle we've seen in Wynncraft yet

And Syndra... man.

[shut mist]

wait till apotheosis

it gets real good

[light zealot]

And the Queen! So many mysteries

I can't wait to see where this goes from here

[shut mist]

just mentionning this the quest ouverture to despair has important info

[light zealot]

I will do all of them when I get to them

But wow

That was incredibly impressive

I'm still so worried about everyone else

[shut mist]

first true defeat by our side

[light zealot]

Since they've all been captured, and Syndra's dead, and it's just me, Sui, and Yusanu left

I assume the next section will be some kind of rescue mission

But I don't know how we'll rebound after such a crushing defeat...

[shut mist]

you will just have to see

[light zealot]

Indeed.

Fruma is amazing and this storyline is fantastic

[shut mist]

mistwoods is a very interesting area

[light zealot]

Can't wait to see where this all goes

[shut mist]

you also cant see shit without night vision :/

[hybrid gazelle]

I wish we get to see wild adasaur in mistwood lol

It only just korviraptor

Have a wild adasaur as rare mob would be nice

[shut mist]

mistwood visibility is so bad without night vision

its pretty sad

[limber swan]

thats the whole point no?

[shut mist]

yeah but it gets pretty miserable

[hybrid gazelle]

Sometime I wonder if I should kept my redesign philosophy for Wynn foot soldiers

Befause consider how mining view as taboo there

And the war gojng on for 1000 years

I don’t think the army would have enough resource to armor everyone up

So it feel like most soldiers would only habe armored cover their vital spot

Something like this

There also problem with some battle would result in loss of gears because some gears would be tainted by the corruption

So wynn would have major issue on the logistic

So I fele like plate armor would be uncommon in the province and only used by city guard whose gears would easily be recoverable when the worst come

[shut mist]

then again ...

city guards only have to fear the inside

[hybrid gazelle]

Honestly I do think when they update Wynn

They should put something like this into consideration

[shut mist]

guard golems are pretty strong ngl

[hybrid gazelle]

Because it would be interesting to see how much corruption impact Wynn society with not only warfare

But its resource as well

[hybrid gazelle]

The strength of golems are pretty put into question due to the fact that player can just storm their victory single handedly

They likely work as effective enforcers

But for warfare purpose it’s questionable

[shut mist]

true

[hybrid gazelle]

Consider they would be sitting duck for artillery

[burnt robin]

soo i never noticed this

[hybrid gazelle]

That why I make distinct between war golem and normal golem

I find the idea of golems being that versatile and everyone using same type of golems to be kinda dumb??

Because that why everyone using the same brand of car

[shut mist]

i just remembered nemracts golems are in a pretty miserable state

[hybrid gazelle]

Including the citizens and military

Which is dumb

[shut mist]

yeah their not that op

[hybrid gazelle]

Because you can’t make a product that would be useful or applicable

If golems is that strong enough to use in warfare then it would be too expensive or problematic for citizens to just get their hands on

Not only their everyday threat would not even require them to meet threat that require literal war machine

But then there problem on the video Vera

If golems are usable for citizens then they might not fit criteria or efficient to use in army

Beside some heavy duty

So I rather fix this issue by having different type of golems

It also would be fitting the idea of golems being dehumanize into a products

That turn to suite various needs

[slender copper]

correct but instead of Yus it's Tasim.

[regal spire]

The person is us

The “postage” is the EULA MC server guidelines

That, or my Wynncraft store receipt

[thick pivot]

I've heard ppl say that this quest is not canon or smth

[twin citrus]

probably, but i think ive also heard that its probably going to go through a dialogue pass in the future

[azure tangle]

in my head yea lol