📚lore_discussion

[full jackal]

it could’ve been really really interesting, like a secret society infiltrating the world on all levels

[mossy badge]

#60000th ppl saying ts 😭 🙏

[full jackal]

instead its just kinda boring puzzles that 90% of people just use the wiki for anyways and amadel’s boring bossfight

[full jackal]

just because it’s been said to death doesn’t mean it’s no true

—description for aphorism item

[mossy badge]

Ye i didn't say its not true

[full jackal]

ik

tbh jungle quests are all such a slog to get through

[signal bough]

damn didn't see the abandoned mines update

[regal spire]

Lost in the jungle goated

[full jackal]

either they’re short and annoying or long and annoying

[signal bough]

wonder if the secret tunnel to rymek is still present

[full jackal]

uncivilization is a banger though

[hybrid gazelle]

probably the most unforunate name OST could ever have

[full jackal]

wdym

i mean yea its kinsa racist rhetoric

actually no yea racism bad kids

[hybrid gazelle]

"kinda"

[full jackal]

don’t do a racist kids

[signal bough]

would the tribes would be partially olmic if the jungle got remade?

[full jackal]

that would be so cool

Honestly it was confusing to me how they said that the olm had nearly died out /died out but they’re everywhere in WynnExca. D

[regal spire]

That’d realistically make sense

The origin of the tribes isn’t exactly explained, and they don’t really do anything to explain how they ended up there

They’re not even mentioned by the Olm, and the tribesmen don’t mention them either, so who really knows

[signal bough]

making them all olm doesnt make sense

given how olm have long lifespans and are generally knowledgeable

but partially olmic makes sense

[hybrid gazelle]

descendent of olms is viable option

just make them the gnereation of olms that born from the batch that recently escape from Dern

have 0 idea what Dern and exiled by the main olm colony to prevent them knowing about the horror

[signal bough]

they appear to be related to the eagle and owl tribes at the moment

[hybrid gazelle]

those tribes can be remove like

there literally 0 thing they can offer and htey appear for like one quest and SD

[signal bough]

and they're conflicting with some recent lore changes(unless humans have been in the desert for longer than the rest of wynn)

[hybrid gazelle]

They do

[signal bough]

but there's also some stuff there cause they were separate from the desert empire

rymek is a good place for olmic exiles tho

right next to SE

[raw badge]

Okay so apparently ||Orphion and Saphanis are the antagonists of the storyline as they are responsible for the War of the Realms, although does this mean Orphion is a sort of "twist villain"?||

Okay nevermind, that "joke" has likely died ages ago and I doubt wisedrag cares about Orphion tbh

[signal bough]

||it’s basically just saying that Orphion would not hesitate to do some of the same stuff the dern beast has, which I do think is up for discussion given the Fruman inner circle is biased and operating off incomplete information||

[hybrid gazelle]

The idea of Orphion being a “villain” is always there but vaguely

And the game shown it very very badly

[raw badge]

Okay

Also Sovereign Xima's portrait in Aelumia University's Library looks cool as heck tbh

[cedar kernel]

the swords in the cave with "on hierarchy" have wynnic text

[raw badge]

Not gonna lie this bloke looks amazing and probably cute even though he is unfortunately ded

Xima btw

[cedar kernel]

It's upside down but says yaming or smth?

[spring kernel]

that's just part of the weapon skin

[raw badge]

Okay I deleted most of my messages as I felt like it would be pointless to edit at times but idk

[cedar kernel]

ok next update their weapons will be updated to not have wynnic

[chilly tulip]

So this may be a stupid question, but is the place Two is in when we access their memory accidentally during Ensemble of Hope an accessible area? Or does it just exist in the cutscene

[regal spire]

It’s in the Mistwoods

[slender copper]

"accidentally".

[regal spire]

Next to the citadel catacombs

[narrow plover]

bro i just got boxxed up by sewage is this the average day in the wynn province?

[regal spire]

I think that’s just a quest

[past peak]

depends on ur level

[hot timber]

anathema is quite literally the most reliable source there is regarding the light and dark's conflict so i'd trust that orphion is equally as bad as saphanis, he just cares about putting up appearances whereas saphanis doesnt

[signal bough]

The mask has led to some unusual actions for a thing allegedly only caring about expanding its influence, such as dropping the monument of light in Lutho to protect the miners, and the existence of professor Eih, a creature seemingly born entirely out of light being unusually affable for a construct like that

[violet tiger]

Personally, I agree, but for different reasons.
There was a whole line where Orphion would judge based on their own sense of morality, which we even see the consequences of the stubborn and rigid morality system he taught the elves in Lari.
Best I can describe it is Anathema is Chaotic-Neutral, Orphion is Lawful-Neutral, and Saphanis is Pure Neutral.
They all transcend the concepts of good and evil and would all lay claim on the world and enforce their vision if allowed.
They're all dictators, to put it simply.

[signal bough]

I don’t know if you can separate orphion from its mask

[hot timber]

yeah, none of the beasts believe they're evil

[violet tiger]

It doesn't really matter how "good" or "evil" any of them are. The fact of the matter is they are dictators with rigid morality and the people on the Realm of Physicality are too morally grey to exist within any of their systems with freedom and without fear.

[hot timber]

the obelisk in lutho might serve some other actual purpose, two's mirror dimension (which i think is accurate enough) shows its just a way of expanding influence

orphion never really cares about anyone other than himself during the course of the RoL questline

[violet tiger]

Anathema was the best, but solely because she rejected what she truly is, if only temporarily. She could empathize with the struggle for freedom War is all about, but at the end of the day, she can't truly change what she is.
When you fight her in the Wartorn Palace, the final title she gets is "Destruction Unwilling", and I think that perfectly describes her.

[hot timber]

when he tells us to go murk the queen we initially think its to stop the war from growing out of hand but then we learn from her that its literally the exact opposite

he tells us that because without anathema he can spread his influence without threat of MAD

[violet tiger]

At the end of the day, whether she likes it or not, she is War.

[violet tiger]

Yup. But she laid her claim and forced her own sense of morality on an entire province. Despite her hatred, she is the same as her creators.

[violet tiger]

Her titles perfectly describe her inner turmoil, actually.
Equilibrium Incarnate, Mayhem Made Manifest, Bringer of Balance, Heart of Hatred, Order Upholding, Chaos Unfurling

Destruction Unwilling

[hot timber]

yeah its basically tasim's inner conflict

her regime is fucked up but also she's the key to making light and dark piss off

[signal bough]

Eih does appear to care for others, given he's leading you through a terrible high for no observable benefit to himself or the Light as a whole

[buoyant depot]

im not sure that overworking the industrial district's residents is the best way to go at it, but pop off queen

[violet tiger]

We don't even know for sure if Eih is real, and assuming he is, he is just an individual.
Just because the elves are born from Light's influence doesn't necessarily mean they follow Light's will.
I mean just look at War's scions.
Tasim, Soosu, Zhiraok, Bak'al, AND Syndra all were given power by War and all betrayed her.

Plus, we were on the path to help Orphion get that parasite off of him. He had a vested interest in helping us.

[signal bough]

Eih is real given the SD and possessing knowledge of things the player does not, and the SD does seem to indicate he is either a scion or born entirety of light

[hot timber]

btw do we ever find out who jiro was replaced by

[signal bough]

Probably the latter, Orphion making a random toad a scion is silly

[hot timber]

like the changeling

[shy hemlock]

who is jiro again

[signal bough]

Runner between the Leaves and Steel Feathers, also a bit of an information gatherer?

[violet tiger]

Though the fact that Anathema just left her realm brings a horrifying prospect.
Both Saphanis and Orphion are more cautious than Anathema, so it makes sense they wouldn't immediately leave.
However, Orphion eventually couldn't leave because he was weakened by the parasite and Saphanis couldn't leave because Bob sealed him away in some fashion.
Now if we go off the theory that the place The Eyes resided was at least part of that seal and Aledar and the player broke it to get to the eye, both of them might very well be free to roam the Realm of Physicality.

[shy hemlock]

oh that guy

[shy hemlock]

imagine post-dern is a free for all fight between saphanis, orphion and the player in the middle of the ocean between SE and Light’s Secret

Actually is the portal to dern in SE or somewhere else?

[signal bough]

yeah that's the portal

[shy hemlock]

a ok

also

whats up with the guardian of the forest?

like, the original was cut down to reveal Light’s Secret

but that means the tree is purely made of light right?

is it like a scion to Orphion or what

[signal bough]

maybe orphion does make scions of trees or smthn idk

[shy hemlock]

if the tree doesnt serve orphion then what the hell would it even exist for

but then again i think the tree doesnt really do anything to spread the light or do anything really?

[violet tiger]

I was thinking more like a scholar of Orphion than a scion.

[shy hemlock]

Maybe

[signal bough]

Orphion was contacting the elves prior to 0 AP, we know that

[shy hemlock]

maybe the guardian was the messenger then?

but cant orphion just… talk to them

like

he talks to us in taproot

idk the guardian of the forest seems like something useless

he just sits there

[violet tiger]

He can, but his words were less clear before the portal was opened.
That's the whole reason the portals got opened.

[shy hemlock]

all he did was make lari get mad and attack us

[shy hemlock]

hm ok

[violet tiger]

He basically told the elven leaders of ancient past "don't kill this beast, it'll open the portals" and it came out as "kill this beast, it'll open the portals".
Though with that being said, there's a genuine argument to be made that they didn't misinterpret Oprhion as he hated Saphanis so much he wanted back to the area where he could fight him, and when things went to shit because of his decision, he rewrote history with a convenient excuse to maintain people's perceived image of Orphion as the just and moral superior.

It's actually part of the reason I feel the tree is probably more of an ancient scholar who studied Orphion than a scion.
Orphion has taught his version of morals and proclaimed himself righteous in elven culture for so long that it becomes the very thing that keeps Lari from killing the parasite, and then Tree Dude just says "yeah, that's bullshit. He is Light. Concepts like good and evil don't apply."

I think probably the biggest mystery of Wynncraft is who closed the realm portals originally. Remember; Saphanis and Orphion eventually found the Plane of Physicality, created portals, fought, BUT THEN THE PORTALS WERE CLOSED, before eventually being reopened by the elves approx 1,000 years before the start of the story.

[hot timber]

it has to do with the colossi in some way imo

[violet tiger]

This is a BEYOND ancient history, and is one of the pieces of lore I want the answer too the most alongside anything involving the giant civilization m

[hot timber]

runes are the only type of magic we know that is capable of messing with the weave and the barrier between realms

[violet tiger]

Probably.

[hot timber]

the civilisation that made the colossi had runes

as we can see from spider ruins

and they had beef with "forces beyond their control"

and they're extremely ancient, and activated when the light showed up

[violet tiger]

While the Olm and Ancient Frumans also used Runes, they weren't ancient enough to be the ones to do so, so I agree this is the most likely option.

[violet tiger]

On the matter of Giants, we got practically no info. We know of precisely 3; one of which was taken over by Dern, one of which was taken over by Corruption, and one of which seemingly went insane.
The only lore we have is from the level 42 Legendary Chestplate "Giant's Bracer" which reads as such:

This ill-fitting, bulky chestplate was never intended to be a chestplate at all. Rather, it is a broken fragment of an arm bracer, from the time of giants.
AND THIS IS ALL THE LORE WE HAVE ABOUT GIANTS!

[rich blaze]

THERE WERE GIANTS?

[exotic bough]

May not be canon anymore

Should be as like a super ancient civilization, but no strong evidence exists that they are still canon

[vestal rivet]

iirc they were also once referenced to hang out around Cinfras and Gylia areas in ages past

[exotic bough]

That’s goliaths

The mini colossi

[rich blaze]

Also weren't those made by the ancient villagers

[vestal rivet]

hm

[exotic bough]

Unknown

[vestal rivet]

that one bracelet is just hallucinating then

[exotic bough]

Maybe but they could also have just naturally arisen

[rich blaze]

wonder how colossi were made

hope wynn revisits that

[exotic bough]

Paku (early dogun with their bodies created by the colossus)was created in 4000 bp

[rich blaze]

yeah ik

[dawn otter]

How do they not know who I am

Oh shit

[warm flicker]

another bit of pseudo-lore is the story of the Progenitor of the orcs, goblins, ogres, and trolls being some giant entity who carved the pathways of the Llevigar plains

[dim plover]

Took me way too long to realize that the flag I translated into a pixellated model was slightly wrong

Okay fixed
Best I can with a lack of a sharp triangle point anyway

[warm flicker]

Auray was its name, and the myth says it was the only one of its kind. Its also said that Auray found the ruins of an even older civilization and used its rune magic to split himself into the four species

[worthy cargo]

philippines

[slim belfry]

I misread this as naturally asian 😭

[split night]

are nii rune like
fire element coded

[exotic bough]

yea

az = water
nii = fire
uth = air
tol = earth
ek = thunder

[dim plover]

"Oh god I did a goof"

(I'm doing final touches the gif will be ready later)

[tribal crystal]

Wonder if the beast regains its power if a scion dies

[dim plover]

I mean the Queen sure didn't

[tribal crystal]

So that power dissapears for good

[celest falcon]

This is why the Dern Beast made the sensible decision of stealing Bak’al

[tribal crystal]

So like 10 soverigns are dead now...
So all drained her power? Or did those who choose a peaceful death probably return the power

Or can beasts regain power by doing things?

[slender copper]

I've never seen Gikyo so guilty, what did they do-

[rustic nexus]

I feel like we need to learn more about fruma in queen's recruit to justify this line from her majesty, perhaps actually getting to read some books in the library

otherwise like, the "little we've learned" is just like. there's more sovereigns? the queen already told us that

we don't really learn anything more than what we're allowed to about the province in that quest

[dim plover]

They shapeshifted into a Trans-colored Blahaj when they were supposed to be throwing a party for the Queen joining their Polycule

(Real)

[slender copper]

Polycule???

[dim plover]

Yeah

That's a really funny scenario actually someone should make a gif about it

Like, in the form of a fake cutscene or something idk

[slender copper]

I thought this was about Tasim revealing to the sovereigns and Her Majesty that he let the player get away on three separate occasions, what are you brewing??? 😭

[dim plover]

Ha ha ha

that sure is a comedic situation

that's an excellent idea that I should have done

ha

.

..

...anyways

[radiant harbor]

I thought she was referring to the trip through Auburn forest and Highlands before we got to the palace

[rustic nexus]

everyone saw that

cuz it was a guided tour

[exotic bough]

where is ||tasim||

[dim plover]

I didn't really consider him a Sovereign tbh

[rustic nexus]

clearly this is the reality where the player was chosen

[dim plover]

That and he's irrelevant

[exotic bough]

isnt he part of doomed yaoi though

[dim plover]

I think the mild lore that I established for myself while making the gif is that the player isn't part of the polycule but it's in an AU where the Sovereigns are nice and don't know about the Queen being Anathema and the player via a weird series of events in the new versions of quests just ends up helping them with the party preparations

(As for why Gikyo's the trans flag they're either goofing around and not taking this seriously or they got the spirit but genuinely didn't know what flag they were shifting into)

(The "oh no" pose at the end is either them pretending or serious I left it to interpretation)

[summer bluff]

? when did i get pinged

[dim plover]

Sorry I removed it after

Anyways cutscene ^

[summer bluff]

ahhhh

[summer bluff]

BLAHAJ GIKYO LETS GOOOOO

the polyamoury cake pan is peak

omnomnomnomnomnom

[slim belfry]

GOSH THIS IS CRAZY

[summer bluff]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/262010576295821312/1490875537827041310/Sui_Nom.gif

majin with the rainbow name he really pulled out the cosmic magic for this party

[icy juniper]

peak

also the wartorn palace was such a cool raid omg

[summer bluff]

best in-game portrait

[icy juniper]

fr

[cedar kernel]

HOW

Did a CT make this for fun

Is this content that will be added for a joke update

[icy juniper]

no this is cannon trust me

[summer bluff]

purple is a magician

[slender copper]

No it was them that made it lol

[cedar kernel]

How then

Did they rip the models or recreate them or something

[summer bluff]

i told you, purple is a magician

[slender copper]

From what I've seen, they made the models themselves, so I guess a good knowledge on how animation and modeling works.

[cedar kernel]

God the best part about it is majin just throwing the rainbow baton away and leaving through a portal

“Fuck this shit” type energy 😭

[icy juniper]

the wiki page says this in trivia does anyone have an image of it?
"Silhouettes of multiple Annihilations can be seen scattered in the backdrop of the 'Realm of War' segments of the raid."

[icy juniper]

Majin was the best fight in Fruma imo

it was so fun seeing him use all the elemental attacks

[cedar kernel]

Majin was like a dark souls boss or silksong boss in wynncraft

[warm adder]

i eat majins for dinner

[cedar kernel]

Hits hard as hell but is incredibly choreographed

[icy juniper]

majin was the easiest Sovereign imo 😭

[slender copper]

I would agree but bro froze mid air in the middle of his second phase. But his was a lot more fancy, yeah.

[cedar kernel]

The way they say things before everything makes me think they’re inspired by Ultrakill Powers

Majin does boatloads of damage, he kills you so so fast if you are under 30k ehp

[icy juniper]

😭 bro im pretty sure they were being developed before like february

[icy juniper]

I had like 33k ehp

[warm adder]

Is it just me or was the zhiraoak 1 boss really easy

[icy juniper]

gikyo was annoying asf

[icy juniper]

yeah they're super easy

the second was not

[cedar kernel]

Did you use shop consumables

It was really hard for me until I used one

[icy juniper]

I had to use consumables for all the bosses Zhiraoak 2 and on

[cedar kernel]

Oh I used none until majin

Majin with no consus means that you just get two shot

[icy juniper]

I was running non mythic if that makes a difference

[icy juniper]

I mean they still two shot me

[cedar kernel]

I was not running anything good, it was a low id’ed fatal lightbender

[icy juniper]

I just used healing potions

[cedar kernel]

Ok it’s lightbender

[icy juniper]

😭 lightbender is goated for survivability no?

[brittle prism]

Gikyo was the only sovereign i died to

[icy juniper]

acrobat assassin for me

[cedar kernel]

Yeah…

Gikyo mora stage hits hard

[brittle prism]

Cause my paladinmaxxing didn't work in the mora stage so I actually had to dodge attacks

[icy juniper]

I genuinely locked in too hard in Gikyo and forgot the last phase entirely

but they were lightwork (took like 15 attempts)

I suck at the game lmao

[hasty beacon]

I dont think i took more than 2 attempts on all the bosses

[hybrid gazelle]

On topic of boss fight

[brittle prism]

Before i beat gikyo the normal way some random guy showed up and killed him when i was in the room

[icy juniper]

what class?

[vestal rivet]

Gikyo took me 3 attempts including the one where I died to a bug lol

[hybrid gazelle]

I think it funny that some people thinks we solo these boss

[hasty beacon]

Lightbender

[vestal rivet]

only boss that killed me outside of WEs

[icy juniper]

😭

lol

[hasty beacon]

You solo some of them

[icy juniper]

I wish other classes had self healing

I CANT BELIEVE THEY GOT RID OF TRICKSTER GIVING OVERHEAL BTW

THAT STILL UPSETS ME

[hybrid gazelle]

Like Zhiraok you have the help of the leaves in both fight
Gikyo, Sui killed them
Majin kill himself befoee you actually beat him

[slender copper]

Oh yeah Majin does just blow up.

[vestal rivet]

for Gikyo and Majin, it is still true 1-on-1 fights
with Gikyo, Sui is busy trying to save a dying, inmoving Mora
with Majin, we're isolated to pick us off by ourselves
granted, Sui does step in and carry once Mora is dead

[hybrid gazelle]

Majin fight probably impossible if it for side effect of cosmic magic

[dense spindle]

im reading this after i just died 4 times to this dude LOL

[icy juniper]

wasn't he overusing the magic and killed himself thats a victory we exhausted him

[hybrid gazelle]

Majin is hinge entirely on the fact that cosmic magic would be too much for him to handle

[hybrid gazelle]

Yes I would not say we beat Majin

More like

[vestal rivet]

Majin took on that power because we were that hard to fight
and then he kept drinking deeper and deeper and deeper in an attempt to finally squash us

[icy juniper]

thats still a win and it was 1:1

[hybrid gazelle]

Majin ego got better of him lol

[icy juniper]

I dont think thats true though he just got a blessing that was too strong for him and overused it

[hybrid gazelle]

The queen fight is one that I literally do not see how people fall that shit solo

[vestal rivet]

we drove Majin to that point

[hybrid gazelle]

You literally see queen fucking beat us in cutscene 😭

[hybrid gazelle]

Cosmic magic induce madness and combined witb majin’s ego

You can see how it is

[icy juniper]

and we exploited that and exhausted him and he died

[hybrid gazelle]

It been well known in lore that cosmic magic is something that cause madness to thise who expose to it

[vestal rivet]

I wouldn't say exhausted
but 100% we exploited it intentionally or not

[hybrid gazelle]

If you are not an olm

For some reason

[icy juniper]

would he have died if we werent there, no. We killed him

[vestal rivet]

could be an alegory for how irl olms are often straight up eyeless and cannot fully appreciate the madness of the open cosmos

[hybrid gazelle]

I guess

Garoth is so far showcase of cosmic magic where the user does not go honker

I guess yoh can say TNA if you subscribe to that theory

[vestal rivet]

what if cosmic is just
all of the other random stuff floating around that isn't War, Dern, Light, or the physical plane

and is just inherently unknowable to our feeble little localized understandings

[icy juniper]

I think that us not being able to beat zhiraoak or Gikyo is pretty lame because I'm not a big fan of "win in the fight lose in the cutscene" things but I get that it had to give characterization and set up puzzle pieces for later

[vestal rivet]

never shared a single common rule with us, so what platform do we have to stand on to get them?

[icy juniper]

well space is in the current physical plane, we see this in the Aelumina city's library there's a solar system model

[vestal rivet]

Gikyo references himself to be injured while in Mora's form
he also stops fighting us to attack Sui, because he's realized we're just a bit too hard of a target

[icy juniper]

yeah I just wish it was solo I suppose

[vestal rivet]

doesn't have to be the same plane to have connections or be seen

well
have connections at least

[hybrid gazelle]

I wonder if we will get fruma boss rush

[vestal rivet]

changeling bossrush lol
they just pretend to be the sovereigns

[icy juniper]

my issue with that theory is that other aspects are from specific planes that NEED a portal to access our plane, cosmic has no portal and the few space objects (at least to me) don't seem on that level

[icy juniper]

yeah I hope its beyond the other locked door in WTP

[vestal rivet]

that or we get a feature in Time Valley that does something like this

[hybrid gazelle]

the only thing that flawed about that idea

is because changeling cant copy other people power and only their apperance

beacsue Gikyo is only one who can do it

due to their blessing

I wish they clearify it more

but apperantly that what their blessing is

[vestal rivet]

ah so that's Gikyo's blessing

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah

[vestal rivet]

where is this said?

it does at least make sense

[hybrid gazelle]

from CT in beta chat

I think it make a lto of sense for their character

[vestal rivet]

also makes him somewhat terrifying, more than he already was

[dim plover]

party popper

[hybrid gazelle]

Gikyo is an indivudal who accept their place as a tool of the crown

[icy juniper]

I think that something like a corruption magic where its a corrupted boss rush a dungeon where you just fight corrupted versions of them would be cool

[hybrid gazelle]

so their blessing would take shape as extension of their changeling ability

rather than anything else

[hybrid gazelle]

they

[icy juniper]

are they said to be nonbinary? I didn't catch that in the secret discovery

[hybrid gazelle]

yes

[vestal rivet]

Zhiraok is speedster lite
Soosu got matter crunching/bending
Gikyo is able to take more than just appearance
Majin is cosmic stuff
Two is memory reading? unless that came from before
Oru is who knows

[hybrid gazelle]

Zhiraok is not just speedster

he literally able to manipulate his own time

so that how he can reive himself

he is literally smaller scale time manipulator

[vestal rivet]

funnily enough, Gikyo refers to themselves as an it as opposed to a they
it's the other characters that gave Gikyo that pronoun, or CT

[vestal rivet]

makes sense

[icy juniper]

huh I guess I never noticed it

[hybrid gazelle]

I think Two blessing is foresight

[vestal rivet]

probably

[icy juniper]

two my fav sovereign

also tasim sucks as a sovereign

[vestal rivet]

and them Tasim's was
initiative or something
which really was just yellow butterfly magic in his fight

[icy juniper]

genuinely HATE Tasim

[hybrid gazelle]

Tasim blessing seems ot like

empowering himself??

[icy juniper]

wasn't it copying or smth

[hybrid gazelle]

It was not clear

[icy juniper]

literally didn't even know

[vestal rivet]

Gikyo's thing

[hybrid gazelle]

I think it just empowering himself with the queen's power

the thing that Tasim's blessing has to revolve around him as character

[icy juniper]

no he like absorbed and reflected the ice woman's attack

[hybrid gazelle]

and it seems him accepting his role in the mission and wanting to stop the war

[upper ruin]

Okay, so who carried adulf? Half villager half human but two dads...? Can male villagers have children in wynn lore?

[icy juniper]

maybe thats just more magic stuff

[hybrid gazelle]

the villager

she is a woman

they just dont have different model

[upper ruin]

OMG

[slender copper]

"ice woman" 😭

[upper ruin]

I thought it was a dude LOL

[vestal rivet]

I think that was more of a technique thing

[icy juniper]

maxie mpreg NOW

[icy juniper]

HER POWER WAS ALL SHE EXISTED FOR

[hybrid gazelle]

No?

Sui is a character?

[vestal rivet]

Tasim was very skilled with magic and had experience fighting other magic users, which Sui did not, so she had no idea that a simple wave could probably just be caught

[upper ruin]

They claim to be exs but have a secret rendezvous tunnel

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah cause they help each other

[icy juniper]

that revolves around her getting over her fear of her power and using it as a tool to liberate her and her friends, but she would be NOTHING without her power.

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah I mean

that the point

Sui character is all about accepting the fact that she is cursed

[upper ruin]

So then what about the dougan and the amulet smith?

[hybrid gazelle]

and overcome her fear and use the said power to protect her family

what geniunely the fuck are you trying to say

[upper ruin]

So many forbidden relationships in the current section of lore I'm doing LOL

[icy juniper]

I don't like people who are magically powerful without trying I hate sorcerers

[hybrid gazelle]

what

[slender copper]

"she be nothing without her power" Feel like that argument is a bit weak because... you can say that... with a LOT of Wynncraft characters lmao

[upper ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/kid-stare-blank-face-uh-okay-blink-gif-17510019

Mage Island honest reaction

[hybrid gazelle]

you geniunely are a specimen

[slender copper]

Why does this sound familiar, lmao.

[vestal rivet]

Queen X Bak'al
Queen X Two (possible by interpretation ig)
Zeph X one of the Y-name Steelfeather brothers I can never keep track of them
Syndra X Elise
uh
that's it in Fruma I think if you ignore random background NPC couples

[slender copper]

Yuman? lol

[icy juniper]

yeah but like if ppl are magically powerful from birth then why isn't everyone and everything doing eugenics constantly to become extremely powerful there are IMPLICATIONS to innate power and "Chosen Ones"

[vestal rivet]

you can't give me 3 brothers named Yulie, Yuman, and Yusanu, introduce them at the same time, and have them do things together often and have a shared background so they have heavy overlap while also making 2 of them general rough looking workers and expect me to have an easy time telling them apart lol

[slim belfry]

fruma is quite on the nose doing that and the reverse

[vestal rivet]

one of them being "fabulous" does help a bit though

[icy juniper]

it also works off the assumption that eugenics somehow works and makes people strong which is completely false

[vestal rivet]

thought Yusanu was a girl at first

[icy juniper]

how beyond the basic class system rather than a kraterocracy

[slim belfry]

cursed are imprisoned or killed

[icy juniper]

they are a MILITARY REGIME and they KILL THE PEOPLE WITH THE MOST POTENTIAL

or wipe their memory

[hybrid gazelle]

we dont know how it work yet

also Sui is special case

she is not only with higher magical innate

but also a manaweaver

[vestal rivet]

based on what happens
most "cursed" are just people who discovered that they can do magic if they have a channel lol

[hybrid gazelle]

Fruma only kill cursed becuas they threaten the power structure

and the queen simply hate chaos

[vestal rivet]

while only a few are especially powerful and don't need a channel or have that increased control

[hybrid gazelle]

something like magic need to be moderate

but you cant really relying on trainning with every cursed you find

not saying it's a good thing

but yeah the queen is control freak

[nocturne stone]

Quite ironic

[icy juniper]

I'm using this as an outlet to be upset at fantasy settings because "powerful bloodlines" just means eugenics is just perfectly functional and has positive output and thats stupid and I hate eugenics

[vestal rivet]

her realm is war specifically
not chaos
what better way to direct a war than with orders?
I think it suits her nature well

[hybrid gazelle]

What

[slim belfry]

uh

war IS chaos

[icy juniper]

but chosen ones in general sucks I think you should go to wizard school and be a wizard and kill a bunch of goblins and become strong that way instead of be born magically good

[round wraith]

jjk

[nocturne stone]

Anathema, Chaos Unfurling

[slim belfry]

war, chaos, corruption

all the same thing

[round wraith]

https://giphy.com/gifs/wtf-bruh-he-doesnt-know-RXtD0Rt2xrUxIvJYkP

[icy juniper]

yeah I don't like that power system that much but it at least shows it as a bad thing and it ties into core themes of the story

[round wraith]

thats exactly why i love it

such a well done portrayal

[vestal rivet]

it's associated with chaos sometimes, but war != chaos in itself

[round wraith]

using a common shounen trope and tying it into everything wrong with this world's magical society

[vestal rivet]

she even did everything she could to escape the chaos of war when unordered

[icy juniper]

ikr it makes the characters do something cruel that works in line with the power system and criticizes that act because evil is evil no matter what power you gain from it

[round wraith]

point proven

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-gif-10804346947536782797

[slim belfry]

yes but she's both

she just has it under control

(mostly)

[vestal rivet]

my point proven you mean?
I said that Her Majesty is not chaotic, she hated the chaos, that's one of the reasons she hates her origin so much

[round wraith]

again youre just proving that war and chaos are one in the same

[vestal rivet]

never said this wasn't the case???

I said that the queen isn't chaotic

and hates the chaos

[round wraith]

maybe i missed context cuz i came in midway thru but thats what i thought i read

[vestal rivet]

not war itself

[round wraith]

hmmmm

apologies

[slim belfry]

I think context is mixed maybe we should use capital letters

[round wraith]

ok i agree then

[icy juniper]

ALSO I have a funny idea, the final fight in TWP has the queen summoning a REAL bomb so the physical plane of our world exists as a separate dimension in the wynncraft lore and affects the chaos realm

[slim belfry]

duh it already exists
the player is the real world scion and we're individual beasts

[icy juniper]

mrbeastttttt

[icy juniper]

LITERALLY WHAT WAS GOING THROUGH MY MIND WHILE I SAW THE BOMB SPAWN LMAOO

[slim belfry]

what the fullmetal

[icy juniper]

they had to know

[round wraith]

thats the one thing 03 has over brotherhood

what an insanely cool twist

[slim belfry]

oh

I haven't watched 03

[round wraith]

spoilers!

😬

[slim belfry]

I know what it involves though I dont mind

[icy juniper]

it was so cool also I watched it before brotherhood because I thought brotherhood was a sequel series 😭

[round wraith]

SAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i will always prefer brohterhood but im sooo glad i watched 03 first because it has such nostalgia for me and i will alwyas sing its praises

even if ultimately its a worse show

[slim belfry]

huh wdym worse

which one

[round wraith]

more flaws, bad writing decisions

03

[slim belfry]

ohhhhhhh

[icy juniper]

I think the twist makes 03 so much cooler than fmab

[round wraith]

less satisfying conclusion

[round wraith]

borhterhood's twist is cool to me too

[slim belfry]

I was recommended brotherhood by someone irl and they regret it because I was spoiled with something too good

[round wraith]

its like if u split aot's plot into two

brotherhood has the government/world conspiracy aspects of aot
03 has the "Truth of the world" / "where the magic originates" parts of aot

[vestal rivet]

ok so
war != chaos INHERENTLY <- big important keyword
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
however, the way war is, it is still very chaotic despite the concepts not being one and the same on the base level
and Her Majesty here hated that part of her and the realm, and is the thing she worked hardest to suppress
chaos is something that war brings and creates, and is a good descriptor for, NOT the same thing by concept alone
what Her Majesty is trying to do is exercise the parts of her own nature she didn't abhor, a war without chaos, which means orders, and being a control freak

[round wraith]

watch aot

[slim belfry]

I was also suggested aot I'll get to it

[round wraith]

its not as like completely 100% amazing as brotherhood but it has higher highs imo

[icy juniper]

I'm super interested in her latest anime daemons of the shadow realm im looking forward to where it goes

[round wraith]

aot is my #1 and fmab is my #2 oat

[round wraith]

same, even if the really really really really generic title has me a bit cautious

[icy juniper]

I feel like aot's ending ruined any good will I had for it and the release schedule was miserable

[round wraith]

release schedule was not miserable

[slim belfry]

that's a good way to put it

[vestal rivet]

so yes war is chaotic no chaos is not war by itself

[round wraith]

just marketed wrong

calling s4 pt 1 "the final season" was stupid as fuck by them

but mappa knew they needed eyes during the height of covid

so it makes sense

[icy juniper]

it was like aot: the final season part 2 and PART TWO WAS SPLIT INTO 2 PARTS

[slim belfry]

explains why she hates war yet is still almost as bad as the beasts

[round wraith]

actually thats part 3

[icy juniper]

😭

[slim belfry]

Her Majesty: I hate them all they do is take and claim their own they don't care!!!
Also Her Majesty: Time to invade this land for myself and make everyone do as I say because I know best.

[icy juniper]

and also (spoilers for AOT) || magical eugenics bad again and it had a doomer ending which just suckedddd imo||

[round wraith]

part 1, part 2, final chapter (part 1), final chapter (part 2)

[round wraith]

genuinely fire writing on ct's part jus shows that all realm beasts are the same

[vestal rivet]

look at Fruma
it prides its military and control
its government structure is more akin to a military occupation than it is actually ruling
all of the potential for war with as little chaos let in as possible

[round wraith]

nah i mean u can dislike it if u want, i definitely like that brotherhood has a happy ending

but aot's will always be thematically perfect

execution maybe there are some bumps, but any other ending any other way wouldve been just wrong

[round wraith]

no war inside fruma walls except for class war

[slim belfry]

there's more fighting between people in the province than with the outside

[vestal rivet]

I wouldn't say exactly the same
the way they go about things differs
Saphanis is taking a more... direct approach
Orphion is trying to coax the denizens of the world he's taking over to his side so that they do it for him
and Anathema just tried to screw off and do her own thing in her own little corner lol

[round wraith]

"1 is greater than 0" ahh

[icy juniper]

are we wynncraft Monkey D Luffy

[round wraith]

i wouldnt say orph is doing that

orph is only coaxing YOU

because it needs YOU to kil lthe parasite

[vestal rivet]

the elves too

[round wraith]

so that it can do what saphanis is doing and take it by force

idt orph talks to the elves

only lari

[vestal rivet]

he's made part of Gavel dependant on him

[round wraith]

god i hope so

[vestal rivet]

they literally cannot choose to back out of their little unofficial union

[round wraith]

except we union bust 🤔

[icy juniper]

when???

[round wraith]

Karoshi Union

[vestal rivet]

we do the opposite
by killing the parasite we stop the union bust

[round wraith]

WE

[icy juniper]

what quest?

[round wraith]

WE

[vestal rivet]

random world event
he was making a joke

[round wraith]

= world event

[vestal rivet]

in Roughworks, near post office

[icy juniper]

😭

[round wraith]

slight joke, there's nothing rlly confirming thats what we're doing other than it being called union

but nothing that doesnt confirm :D

[icy juniper]

we fight a surprising amount of blue collar workers in fruma tho

foremen are just innately hostile to magic users apparently 😭

[vestal rivet]

a surprising amount of them are hostile on sight too lol

[slim belfry]

a lot of them think you're a cop

[icy juniper]

I really wanna see a run where someone plays as lore-accurate fruman and uses no spells

[slim belfry]

or a highlands resident

[icy juniper]

ah so class warfare yet again

[vestal rivet]

the Constables and actual Highlands/Aelumia residents can tell you're definitely not one of them though lol

[slim belfry]

they just look at you weird

[vestal rivet]

Harvin and Maurey can tell something is off without much difficulty, even narrowing down you aren't from the Mistwoods

[slim belfry]

I kinda already do that

[icy juniper]

I like how the ppl of the mistwoods are kinda like the okinawans in japan that was a good parallel

[slim belfry]

I'm like rex

[icy juniper]

you lost your arm?

[slim belfry]

[icy juniper]

did the two weirdos who came with us to WTP do anything in the raid?

[slim belfry]

yeah it's awesome how fruma evolved from avatar reference to its own Asian-inspired environment

Sui is definitely Katara though

[nocturne stone]

Have you done WTP?

[icy juniper]

when did katara impale someone

[vestal rivet]

yes

that is part of why I came to that conclusion

[slim belfry]

she almost did

person that killed her mom

[icy juniper]

ALSO

[vestal rivet]

lookie here for more

[icy juniper]

AVATAR IS YET AGAIN MAGICAL EUGENICS

[slim belfry]

it is lol

[nocturne stone]

Did you see the part where one of ||Anathema's|| titles is "Chaos Unfurling"

[vestal rivet]

one of a billion titles yes

[nocturne stone]

Is it any less true

[icy juniper]

you can't be an earthbender if you're not from the earth kingdom

[vestal rivet]

and just because one war-related creature is labelled that doesn't mean the entire fing realm is also just chaos incarnate by concept

[icy juniper]

lol got rid of the maybe after some thought lmao

[slim belfry]

yeaaaaah

[nocturne stone]

Sorry did you call her "war-related"

[vestal rivet]

so I fail to see your point

[slim belfry]

4 nations business

[icy juniper]

also that one guy who was magically better at lava bending

[vestal rivet]

she IS war yes

or at least, the war beast

[slim belfry]

oh that one is easy to explain

that's actually a case against "magic eugenics"

uh

sorta?

[icy juniper]

okay sorry the entire story is called avatar the supreme magical eugenics guy

[nocturne stone]

You think the embodiment of the war realm is just "one war-related creature" and it being described as "Chaos Unfurling" doesn't mean anything about the war realm

I think we'll agree to disagree there tbh

[vestal rivet]

but surely you still get that one title among many still doesn't dictate that the entire realm is that concept no?

[icy juniper]

she embodies all of war and chaos

[slim belfry]

yeah yeah the main character is quite the spotlight case of it

[icy juniper]

the war between light and dark creates chaos and more war

[nocturne stone]

The isn't only chaos, she's definitely chaotic

[vestal rivet]

she embodies war, and intentionally suppresses chaos

the war brings chaos but is itself not chaos

[nocturne stone]

Ok my man just doesn't know what chaos is

[vestal rivet]

hey, that's why it's called chaos unfurlling! besides the moth theming

[slim belfry]

war can be order too

[icy juniper]

she seems to be in not a lot of wars for someone who embodies war therefore she's neither chaos nor war

[slim belfry]

in a way order and chaos can be seen as twins

like light and dark...

PLAYER TWILIGHT BEAST THEORY

[icy juniper]

thers gonna be an order beast trust

[vestal rivet]

she's isolationist
she tries to stave her warlike nature off as well, but if you look at Fruma's government structure, it's more like a military occupation than a government

[nocturne stone]

By this logic she wouldn't be war as she's actively trying to suppress it lmao. But she's still war and, in my opinion, also chaos (or at least what we'd call chaotic)

[icy juniper]

no its just a different type of government the names are different but they're just lords

[vestal rivet]

...literally only the highlands isn't being forcefully held by constant threat one way or another, and they're only the exception because they're close enough they don't need a specific threat

and Aelumia is the seat of power itself

[icy juniper]

ALL GOVERNMENTS USE THE THREAT OF VIOLENCE FOR PEACEKEEPING LAWS ARE THREATS THAT LIMIT YOUR RIGHTS AND RIGHTS ARE PROTECTION FROM THE GOVERNMENT

THATS HOW GOVERNMENT WORKS

The king of ragni has the largest army in ragni, therefore anyone living in ragni has the threat to follow the laws of ragni or the guards will detain or harm them.

[vestal rivet]

not constantly on an everyday basis like in the Roughworks they shouldn't, because that's, guess what, a military occupation or a draconian dictatorship
not with the threat of a fing apocalypse either, which is what the crown holds over auburn with the threat to flood even if they aren't always aware of it
and not be constantly making people unable to trust one another with shapeshifting spies
yes governments do (or would do) bs like this but it still stands that this isn't typical peaceful government behavior to do to its own people in peacetime

[icy juniper]

THERES A PORTAL TO HELL OUTSIDE THE GATES OF DETLAS

AN APOCALYPSE LITERALLY PRELUDES EVERY WEEK OUTSIDE DETLAS

[vestal rivet]

and that justifies Detlas having that military, and means jack for Fruma! so I don't see your point with this comment

[vestal rivet]

this isn't cannon either it's more every several decades

every 40 years or so

[icy juniper]

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PEACE TIME EVERY COUNTRY IS CONSTANTLY ON THE BACKFOOT OF TOTAL ANNIHILATION THE CANYON COLLOSSUS, NOL, THE GROOTSLANGS, ORPHION, THE PORTAL OUTSIDE DETLAS

[vestal rivet]

(source: Afelis says the last one was that long ago when spoken to in Detlas)

[icy juniper]

but there is a constant threat of violence its just social violence generally just because you can see it more in Fruma doesn't mean it doesn't exist

[vestal rivet]

this still isn't Fruma

[unique hill]

https://klipy.com/gifs/ragebait-lion--k01KQRHFQ4NBXH9R331YBRJ95G5

[icy juniper]

except for like our whole backstory where we're sent to wynn... to fight... in war...

from fruma....

[vestal rivet]

yes
explicitely so that Fruma itself isn't in that war

and also to get one special person for some ambiguous task too but hey

[icy juniper]

using proxies doesn't make it not war

[vestal rivet]

being a proxy isn't the same as being in active war, is it?

not full-blown war like what Wynn has been seeing for generations

[icy juniper]

the cogs of war are still turning on your dime, so yeah its close enough

[vestal rivet]

I guess?
but that still doesn't justify the absurd amount of internal control

the Wings and the Constables are a huge part of Fruma, and with no real consistent external threat to fight, they turn to the internal and subjegate and occupy effectively

[icy juniper]

I'm not saying fruma is justified I'm saying that every other country is also using threats of violence and is also "at war"

[vestal rivet]

I'm saying that Fruma is doing it to the extremes when it doesn't need to

Detlas needs to, which is why I didn't accept the comparison

[icy juniper]

I mean how do you figure out what it needs to do

its safe from the corruption, and it continues to be safe if it keeps doing the same thing and we don't interfere

[vestal rivet]

pretty easy
one has undead hordes and violence incarnate knocking on its front door and the other is an isolationist province who's greatest threat is rebellion caused by measures to brutally stomp out said rebellion before it happened, among other things

[icy juniper]

both are national defense, where is the line

[vestal rivet]

it's almost like ruling a province like a military occupying an area isn't good for the long-term for the peaople

[vestal rivet]

one is self-inflicted

[icy juniper]

it is in a nation's best interests to continue it's rulership, and they are both doing the selfish thing to their own benefit

[vestal rivet]

so much order that it's become a problem again

[icy juniper]

wasn't a problem til us

as long as you're not level 105+ then they're pretty secure from any of these attacks

[vestal rivet]

Her Majesty actually said this herself
we weren't the cause in the slightest, we just got things moving

we made things happen earlier, not made them happen at all

[icy juniper]

I didn't kill the village I just broke the dam

[vestal rivet]

again
we only made it happen sooner

it 100% would've happened eventually even without us, even if it would've taken another generation or few to brew to that point

[icy juniper]

except we killed majin, beat zhiraoak twice, weakened gikyo, fought Tasim, and weakened the queen enough for rex to get a good shot on her

[vestal rivet]

mhm
that escelates things, speeds up them measures

[icy juniper]

all of which were thought to be nigh-unkillable

[icy juniper]

what was the water girl gonna do against zhiraoak at the first gate?

[vapid path]

(And delayed soosu’s project)

[vestal rivet]

Anathema admits she could not hope to hold it forever
she knew that the populace was going to see the sovereigns fail eventually, and had plans in place to "bury" it again as well

[icy juniper]

AND DELAYED SOOSU'S PROJECT!

[icy juniper]

SHE CAN WIPE PEOPLE'S MEMORY IT IS LITERALLY FOOLPROOF

[vestal rivet]

you mean Sui when Zhiraok catches Syndra breaching her agreement? probably not much, but it would've still made a scene

it didn't have to be the leaves to do it specifically, or the steelfeather, or even the canopy

[icy juniper]

and then she dies and never figured out her power just like the other hundreds of people who died

[icy juniper]

none of them could do it alone

[vestal rivet]

yep
yet another end avoided, time to wait for the next one!

[icy juniper]

we needed everyone, and even then we lost multiple times

[vapid path]

She also makes a bunch of ocean metaphors for someone who’s never seen the ocean

[vestal rivet]

well yeah
that's obvious

I don't see why this matters though

[vestal rivet]

lol

maybe she climbed stackpeak and got a glimpse or something
that would've just gotten her mauled by the hawks and shot to death though sooo

[icy juniper]

she can teleport and Two probably has shown her the ocean because of the seaskipper being the secret 5th beast

[vapid path]

Damn I knew something was fishy

Wait 5th? Lol

Who 4th

[icy juniper]

we were the only one who Two couldn't see the future of thats why its important, they lost because WE are special

the player specifically

[icy juniper]

yes... he's the beast of fish...

[icy juniper]

ME (the player trust)

[vestal rivet]

these are separate concepts
Her Majesty's reign was ended far sooner than it could have been thanks to us, yes
that much still could've happened without us eventually
Two saw us changing other things because we were special, not Fruma, otherwise she may have been a bit more cautious

like
she didn't know you were "empty" on the inside until she did a really deep look lol

and, tbf, even Anathema didn't realize what was going on there until the very end

[icy juniper]

The queen can see the future, has the perfect spies who are invisible and can transform into anyone, and has the powerhouse that is Majin, Soosu's brain and zhiroak has basically immortality with a cooldown that makes him stronger each time

[vestal rivet]

idk if that makes him stronger

but yes

[icy juniper]

he says he got stronger since last time and all that happened was he died

[vestal rivet]

as strong as a rule is, can it really stand to eternity in a setting?

[icy juniper]

THEY ARE ALL IMMORTAL

[vestal rivet]

that we see :/

[vestal rivet]

and yet killable, as we see with Selium and Gikyo

[icy juniper]

WHO CAN KILL ANY OF THEM WHEN THEY CAN SEE THE FUTURE

it would have to be someone as strong as Qira to make the province of fruma fall

[vestal rivet]

randos apparently
it wasn't even us who did the final blow to half the Sovereigns
Zhiraok was canonically us + the leaves, or us + Sui and Yusanu in the case of the second encounter
we hurt Gikyo, yes, but somelike Sui obviously was able to as well

[vestal rivet]

the fact someone as strong as Qira exists proves its possible without us

[icy juniper]

how would they figure out magicccc if their memory gets wipedddd by the spyyyy who can see the future

[hybrid gazelle]

inquistors did memory wiping

[vestal rivet]

for Fruma to fall I mean
that specifically
idk about the future stuff

[hybrid gazelle]

Not Two

[icy juniper]

they wouldn't even know about magic without us, we are the sole catalyst

[hybrid gazelle]

Inquistors did not have blessing like Two

[slim belfry]

they figure it out again?

that didn't stop many recruits

[icy juniper]

It doesn't matter who wipes their memory if their memory can be wiped at all and someone can see the future then there is no resistance unless it is another godlike being or someone who you can't see the future of

[full jackal]

Is there a canonical explanation for why we fight Orphion (literal god, probably stronger than Anathema), and then The Colossus (not nearly as strong canonically), then The Nameless Anomaly (also not nearly as strong has Orphion or probably even the Colossus, all they did was void holes), and then Anathema (literal god again, though not as strong as Orphion)?

[hybrid gazelle]

Two likely did not take account to people gainning memory back

ti seems her power only possiblei f she looking for it

rather than being omnipotence

[icy juniper]

her blessing is literally called omnipotence

[hybrid gazelle]

consider Queen's recruits have the crown not aware at all that some recrutis regain their memory back

[hybrid gazelle]

No?

[slim belfry]

two isn't omnipotent what

[hybrid gazelle]

We literally have quest

[vapid path]

We aren’t really fighting orphion full power at all, they’re not only nerfed bc parasite but also they have some semblance of control/are resisting its influence

[hybrid gazelle]

mentionning that Two came back from her investigation

on what palyer been up to

the fact that she need to do that

mean she is not omnipotence

[vestal rivet]

1: I think the word you mean is omniscience, or the knowledge of everything
2: no

[full jackal]

Reasonable take, completely agree. I'd believe that Orphion was heavily weakened by the Parasite, so really we were fighting Orphion at about 16.823% of his True power, then probably a weakened version of the parasite considering they just had their host beaten up (we didn't even kill them, it was Orphion). Maybe the Parasite fight was at about 79.348% of their True Power. But I'm probably missing something ngl

[hybrid gazelle]

she literally said it herself that until she go off doing her thing, they have 0 idea what the player been up to

Two ltierally said she retrace the player step

[full jackal]

Source for Statistics: The Voices in my Head

[icy juniper]

I saw this as a part of trivia for WTP wiki so maybe its a rumor or title my bad
"Sovereign Two: Omniscient yet Isolated"

[full jackal]

But also, is there a reason why enemies in the emerald trail are much, much weaker than those in sky islands or roughworks? Because by all accounts, Arkadius should be stronger than some beetle in the Auburn Forest.

[vapid path]

Eh, game balancing lol

[stray karma]

1M hp Auburn dear 📸

[vapid path]

I choose to believe the leveling processes is less raw stats and more ability unlocking/improving

Bc you know, mmorpg moment lol

[dim plover]

gameplay level

[hybrid gazelle]

CT should have make emerald trail mobsd fucking one shot you

[full jackal]

Charon, Ruler of the Dead, Conquerer of Ancient Nemcract vs idk some overworked sick poor farmer

[vapid path]

Yeh lol

[hybrid gazelle]

and and have Roughwork workers who are end game enemise get like one shot by player's fist

I think that what they shoudl do

actually I think they also should make Charon have inf revive because he is undead

[full jackal]

Like for example in a journey home:

[icy juniper]

the queen has too many cards stacked against any sort of rebellion for it to be feasible and they're all immortal the queen wouldn't fall without the plater's intervention for a long, LONG time

[full jackal]

When you kill the weak zombies they say

"You were afraid of those once"

The hell do you mean I two shot them?

[vapid path]

They took more than two shots during tutorial

[full jackal]

3 max

[hybrid gazelle]

ONCE

it meant to show how far ytou come

since you once a normal recruits who just left your home with no memoeries

being thrust into warzone

filled with undead

if it not in video game, you would be scare shitless

but too bad this is video game so they cant relaly have you afraid of lvl 1 enemy

[full jackal]

True

How do you even survive Autumn Poachers wave three Ursa Major is actually harder than Zhiraok II

Wait

How cool would it be if there was a place in the Aelumnia Citadel where you could do a bossrush of all the bosses in Fruma

Yes I know you can refight the Sovereigns I mean in a straight row

And then add light a new Soosu fight or smth

And also make sure to include Syndra I and Syndra II

And then it ends with a nerfed solo version of Anathema

[split night]

a familiar spark is all we know

[full jackal]

Wait Gikyo literally kicks Mora away and he explodes

[split night]

interpret that how you want xd

[full jackal]

Also maybe add the Mora duel between Syndra I and Zhiraok I (though he's still dead and this is just a projection of him)

[summer bluff]

Well no, mora disturbs the dust when they get kicked and the kick is so hard that it sounds like an explosion but

[full jackal]

it was funny that's all i know

[formal bridge]

grenade shoes

[full jackal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o84vJH19toI

[drifting aurora]

fair

[rustic nexus]

maybe we learn something from what majin and zhiraok talk about instead? idk

I just think it feels like not enough to warrant it being brought up like that

[full jackal]

The Liftal Family apparently just stores loaded automatic cannons in their rooms

[dim plover]

When they add Zhiraok post-raid they should give us a dialogue option to fight him and he just looks at you really confused

Like, is this a threat or does this fella want to duel with me

[full jackal]

Wait this should happen with Soosu

She's the only Sovereign of a province that has already been added who we can't fight

[dim plover]

Can’t she just clap her hands or smth and we instantly turn into swiss cheese

What are her powers again

[full jackal]

I think its to shape stuf

Like metal

[full jackal]

She is NOT stronger than HER MAJESTY

[rustic nexus]

molding matter

we are matter

a soosu duel would have to be something like friendly sparring

otherwise she'd crush us into a cube

but even then like why would we

[solar ingot]

i wanted her to use flowers as a mecha and have an epic battle against a mecha
-# dr legendary sucks

[full jackal]

Okay maybe it'd go like this: Tasim III --> Syndra I --> Mora (Projection) --> Zeph --> Kaio --> Zhiraok I --> Yuman, Yusanu and Yulie --> Quill + Jiro --> Syndra II --> Zhiraok II --> Cileon, Fuhue and Rurie --> Azael --> Gikyo --> MAJIN --> Tasim IV --> Rex --> Sui --> HER MAJESTY --> ANATHEMA

With Zeph, Rex and Mora being similar to Gikyo's phases but buffed

Tasim I being in EE duel and Tasim II being aHC

[full jackal]

her powers probably have limits

If they didn't she could've crushed Her Majesty (given that I don't think Her Majesty has control over her blessings once they are given)

[hybrid gazelle]

tthat because she has no reason to or that would not do anything

I think she would be awere already that her majestywould have contigency plan for her

[full jackal]

I just don't think Soosu is that strong tbh

Zhiraok may be the ever-moving Zephyr but even he gets tired

[rustic nexus]

soosu does have limits

fixing the dam is getting close to it iirc

[full jackal]

I'd say if we take HER MAJESTY for scale as 100

Purely based on our fights with them respectively (so this is heavily opinionated

Syndra is like a 42, Zhiraok is 45, Gikyo is a 53, Tasim is a 50 and Majin is 64

So Soosu is probably between Zhi and Gik

[rustic nexus]

syndra is NOT THAT HIGH

[full jackal]

I meant purely based on fight with them

*fights

Syndra II beat my ass so hard I had to switch to a tank build

Well tbf ingame fights isn't a good measure

Cuz in that case Solar Judge (or whatever the guy in the Aelumnia Lighthouse is called) is stronger than HER MAJESTY

[rustic nexus]

the sun judge

[full jackal]

If it wasn't for his HP carrying over to the next fight I'd be cooked

[rustic nexus]

what class even were you

[full jackal]

Actually, you can call Fruma many things. Fascist? Probably. A Dictatorship? Absolutely. Corrupt? To the core, yes. Evil: Most Likely. But at least it ain't racist or sexist

[full jackal]

Double Totem Acolyte

I played Demonomicon before Syndra II

Then I switched to Absolution

[rustic nexus]

why'd you even fight the sun judge if you ain't flying around aelumia

[full jackal]

Because that lightouse is such a pain

[full jackal]

Wait are you the guy who constantly comments on Wynncraft ost?

[rustic nexus]

gal, and yea

[full jackal]

Right, sorry

[rustic nexus]

it's fine

[full jackal]

Based

[split night]

honestly
a kind of bossrush game mode that reward you like raid is great
rushing all boss in the game no breaks

im not counting forgery, that fucking suck

[full jackal]

Okay but like lemme elaborate. First: Fruma is ruled by a queen. Second, 2-3/6 of the Sovereigns are female, and it is completely normalized for women to be in the army or positions of power. Third, there are numerous people of color in the Fruman army. Therefore, Fruma is actually not racist nor sexist (i think)

[split night]

if you die at any point of the boss rush, it end and you will get your reward, like a lootrun

[full jackal]

That... is actually kinda genius

[split night]

we're lacking an actual bossrush game mode rn
maybe in the bossrush there can be challenge run where you fight 2-3 boss at the same time

[full jackal]

I think it'd be really cool if there was like a Hollow Knight style hall of gods

[hybrid gazelle]

wait

[hasty beacon]

Not rasict against humans, theyre racist against other species , villagers for example

[full jackal]

Except this time they aren't gods

[hybrid gazelle]

there are 2 womens in soverigns

they definitely are isolationist

[full jackal]

i think that's called speciesism (probably spelling that wrong)

which still is pretty bad

And also insane classism

[split night]

no bias against minority but the whole (poorer) population because the cursed propaganda thing

[dim plover]

They should make a bossrush yeah

But have it also be like, canon-compliant so it makes sense to run it in-universe
Time travel seems kinda unfeasible so maybe the bosses could be like, mechanically-built recreations of the original ones or smth like that

[split night]

like i wrote in my note when i first play fruma, there are more women in fruma than out

[full jackal]

Fruma is very deprecorophobic

[split night]

Time Valley gain relevancy

[split night]

actually make this a suggestion in #1019649786799996980
it's a neat thing
something in Time Valley and then we have to do bosh rush

[full jackal]

Maybe there should be one for lvl. 1-20

[split night]

3 boss, bossrush? 😭

I feel like just lock it in lv 105 and above is good

[full jackal]

look hear me out

[split night]

because if it behave like an endless mode then it would be weird to fight the same guy 3 times

[candid cliff]

It can just scale to level

More you have more bosses appear

And yeah it being in time valleg is actually peak ngl

[split night]

someone beat me to it and make a feedback on it please i hve to do something busy

I'd love for a bossrush game mode

because im pretty ass at lootrunning

[full jackal]

It would be Corrupted Goliath I --> Defender of the Plains --> Spider Mother --> Witherhead --> Corrupted Goliath II --> Fire Flak --> Well Witch --> Infernal Adjudant --> Tasim I --> Corrupted Summoner --> Infernal Lieutenant --> Dr.Essren --> Drifting Reaper --> Albert the Strong + Etus the Blind --> Arkadius --> Sayleros's Brother --> Infernal Captain --> Charon

All with Heavy buffs

Also this is probably a stupid idea

But it'd be cool if Enzan's brother started off like it did

But then we climb the stairs together and then it becomes a 2-part quest where the second part leads to the secret discovery

But also

Why do pigmen even exist

what purpose do they even serve

[warm adder]

can we have a gamemode where you can just practice raid bosses

pls

[full jackal]

Why do the pigman ravines exist at all

[full jackal]

That's be so cool

[tribal patio]

Bro what

[warm adder]

ikr he spelt epstein wrong

[minor flame]

are fruma spoilers allowed here?

[full jackal]

Epstien -- the italian version

Yes

If you haven't done Fruma questline you're going to be heavily spoiled

[minor flame]

I just finished the Recover the Past quest on my other character, and I talked with Caid again and he said this and I realized

[full jackal]

Good idea to make it to at the very least, Overture to Despair

[warm adder]

yeah rex

[full jackal]

WHAT

[minor flame]

I finished Fruma dw

[full jackal]

That... actually makes a lot of sense

Wait but how do you pronounce Aelumnia

[minor flame]

I just do silent e

dunno how its actually pronounced tho

[nocturne nimbus]

Älumia

[full jackal]

æˈlʌmniə

[full jackal]

huh?

[minor flame]

AL-oo-mee-uh

[full jackal]

so like ɛːˈlymiə

[full jackal]

Cursed

[minor flame]

i have no idea how phonetics work

[full jackal]

It's pretty easy actually

There are many places to make sounds

in terms of consonants

why can't i type???

WHY CAN'T I TYPE HELLO?

Alveolar

Post-Alveolar

Uvular

Dental

Alveolo-palatal

epiglottal

glottal

pharyngeal

Velar

I can't say the word /baɪleɪbɪiəl/

labio-dental

Alveolar means stuff like "s" or "z" or "t" or "d"

Glottal means stuff like "h"

/baɪleɪbɪiəl/ literally just means with two lips idk why it's censored

means stuff like p or b or m

Uvular means the sounds often found in Afro-Asiatic languages like χʁʀɴqɢ

like with k but further back in your mouth

Touching the Uvula

Labio-dental means stuff like f or v

Velar means stuff like k or g

Alveolo-palatal is like s or z but your also move the back of your tongue to the place where y is made

like in the Cyrillic languages I think

ɕʑ

Paltal is like y

Dental is the "th" sound in english

Post-alveolar is like alveolo-palatal but with less emphasis on the palate

More on the alveolar ridge

Like "sh" or "zh" in "SHut" or "pleaSure"

Retroflex is t and d in the indian accent

So like alveolar but behind the alveolar ridge

ɽʂʐɻɭɳʈɖ

Epiglottal is basically in your throat sorta

Similar to Pharyngeal (I cannot pronounce pharyngeals)

Palatal is sounds like "y"

So yea that's pretty much places of articulation done

Now we get to manner of articulation

Sounds can be Taps, Flaps (usually these two are categorized together), nasals, fricatives, lateral fricatives, plosives, approximates, lateral approximates or trills

they sound complicated but they aren't

Taps/Flaps is when you briefly make contact with an area to make a sound

so like "laDDer" or "meTal" in american english

which is different to plosives which is when you build up air pressure in a place then release it

Like "p" "b" "t" "d" "k" "g"

Trills are like when you vibrate a place

Like in spanish "peRRo"

the rolled r basically

Fricatives are when you constrict a place then let a tiny bit of air flow through "s" "z" "f" "v" "h"

lateral fricatives are literally that but with the two sides of your tongue instead of in the center

Approximates are like fricatives but they don't touch, it's more like there's still a bit of space where air flows through

think "r", "y"

lateral approximates are approximates but with the two sides of your tongue instead of the center "l"

yea that's pretty much it

...for consonants but my hands are tired from typing now

https://www.ipachart.com/

just look at this thing

press the buttons and watch the guy say funny sound and eventually you'll memorize it hopefully

for example

in fruma

The wonderful CT made an entire conlang

With a whole lot of phonetic stuff like "m" "n" "p" "t" "k" "s" "ʃ" "f" "θ" "h" "r" "l"

[bold geode]

is it like the german ä or what

[full jackal]

probably

[bold geode]

that feels kinda wrong even as a german person but if that’s the intended pronunciation

like, ä is typically kind of a flat, monotonous sound, don’t exactly know how to describe it, and so seeing that at the start of the name like that is kinda weird

I am still unsure of how you pronounce Sui’s name so, don’t give whatever I’m saying too much thought or credit

Friend from Greece thinks it’s this and that is so ?????

I am truly baffled. Quiche type situation?

[full jackal]

Like saying ɛːˈlymiə sounds kinda russian

[full jackal]

Ehh, not sure

In my native language of cantonese

The word for water: 水 is pronounced sɵɪ5 (souei) sorta

so I pronounce Sui as sɵɪ

or alternatively you could also pronounce her name as "suɪ"

[full jackal]

"sway" isn't actually that off from the mandarin pronounciation

THE FRUMAN MILITARY MUST HAVE INSANE TRAINING

WDYM GENDARME KENSHI is harder than ZHIRAOK

Tbh Fruma was definetely highly inspired by Asia

Or at least the names

I mean, they have Hwachas, Kenshis, Blossom trees, and some highland mobs look like Samurai

The roughworks however is inspired by third world sweatshops

[signal bough]

a lot of the formal clothing is def asian

[full jackal]

Aelumnia citadel is also slightly japanese vibes I think

like 19th century japan maybe

[full jackal]

Highlanders wear something that seems to look like Saris

[regal spire]

What about the wastelands? What Japanese influence could that potentially represent

Oh…

[full jackal]

Not sure

I meant Aelumnia Citadel

It's a bit of a cross between Victorian age britain and 19th century Japan

Or at least that's the vibes I'm getting

[regal spire]

It just gives off an industrial vibe with generally dilapidated housing structures. Istg I saw Elise’s house in Augustov

[full jackal]

Maybe a bit of Kremlin vibes

like in Moscow

[regal spire]

If not Moscow, Balkan

Novi Beograd has tons of housing on the outskirts of the city that look like that

[signal bough]

do we know if any districts experienced rioting following Bleeding Rose's newspaper that said Majin was going to be killed by the resistance?

[full jackal]

Don't know

[regal spire]

That hand made, semi desperate, lazy architecture made by people who cannot waste time on improving the infrastructure, or people who don’t gaf

[full jackal]

Systems like Fruma's often try as hard as possible to keep citizens complacent

[full jackal]

Auburn and Roughworks maybe

[regal spire]

Considering just how quick of a development it was, it’s very likely all of Fruma was thrown into a frenzy, with the Queen’s departure

[full jackal]

Mistwoods too

Often times the more you're personally affected by something the more you'll want to rebel against it

[signal bough]

damn that seems like a massive vibe

[regal spire]

I’m actually fairly certain Fruma was thrown into disarray as soon as she tore open the rift

Like, everything went to hell. I’d imagine the roughworks to be the worst of it, but Aelumia had it pretty bad by then

[signal bough]

street barricades, mass civil unrest, house to house fighting when the sky looks like THAT and there's red lightning striking tall towers

[full jackal]

AND THE DAM NEARLY FLOODED TOO

[regal spire]

Bro, atp, people have nothing to lose. Or, they recognize the potential for an aftermath, and intend fully to prepare themselves for it

[brittle prism]

I think everyone was just chill

[regal spire]

I think the two most peaceful areas would’ve been Espren and the Mistwoods.

[signal bough]

yeah

[full jackal]

In barely any time, 2 Sovereigns have died, HER MAJESTY metamorphized into ANATHEMA, Auburn nearly flooded, Hundreds dead due to "LE DOMESTIC TERRORISTS" and Aelumnia citadel was infiltrated

[full jackal]

Espren nearly completely downed but yea I guess

[signal bough]

https://tenor.com/view/gun-shot-pumpkin-revolver-44magnum-gif-9991224

[regal spire]

Roughworks doesn’t have Zhiraok entirely dedicated to it rn, and Soosu is in the middle of some stuff, but Espren is totally under control from Zhi and Xao

[hybrid gazelle]

<@&268142859327242242>

Look like the new find new way to scam shit

[full jackal]

BE QUIET, LOWLY WORM

[signal bough]

Mistwoods reactions:
Canopy: currently in Highlands and Aelumia
Aldwellers: 'what the fuck is the monarchy doing now?'
Changelings: 'guess sky sometime do that.'

[full jackal]

I mean Espren would be under control

Very wary because they almost all died but under control

I think Zhi and Xao would be great leader

Roughworks would most likely completely riot

Everyone might just stop working and revolt against soldier

Soldiers now don't have much to fight for and might mutiny

Highlanders would probably be split between people who are mildly happy and people who are mad that the old order is gone and want the queen back

Cuz they don't have much reason to dislike the Queen

Mistwoods wouldn't change much I guess

Changelings would be on the loose everywhere though

Cuz Gikyo is dead and Fort Hegea would be in chaos