📚lore_discussion

[hybrid gazelle]

, the beast will stil lnot in balance

because Parasite would run its course

[exotic yew]

I think "might" is A keyword

[hybrid gazelle]

Surpirsingly

Killing Bak'al make thing worse

sadly

[slim belfry]

what if we meet bob in dern "oh my gosh he's alive???"
||later on he's revealed to be a hollowed corpse that saphanis is wearing||

[exotic yew]

Nah.....

Bob turned evil

[hasty beacon]

Bakal when i pull up with dodegar’s ultimate weapon and a purified helmet of legends

[slim belfry]

both can work
main point is that bob becomes a pawn of the dark

[exotic yew]

There surely will be someone else that can save Orphion

[whole river]

Ok yeah I had to look at the dialogue again and corrupter of worlds actually beat Bakal lmfao

[exotic yew]

Bak'al just don't want any of it man

[whole river]

His army rather, but i got an agenda to maintain

[exotic yew]

He's like a bully

If there's any push back he's gone

[whole river]

Imagine not even being the strongest one coming out of the portal

Bakal GET UPPPP

[exotic yew]

He sure is smart enough

[whole river]

That’s his main saving grace, I imagine he’s gonna pull a Dottore somehow and gain what he needs from the Dark to use for his own gains

I hope he’s not just a lapdog until the end

[exotic yew]

Imagine bro crashed out on you because he betrayed anathema so he can sabotage dern

(he loves anathema or something)

It would be funny

[whole river]

In a way, Bakal is in the best position to essentially do what anathema always wanted to achieve

[exotic yew]

With that being said dern probably is a lot more cautious around him

Since dern knows he betrays anathema

But idk

[whole river]

Definitely a game of cat and mouse, I hope we see scenes of Bakal navigating dern politics

[exotic yew]

Both dern and orph has that kind of pride

[exotic yew]

Does dern even have politics

I don't think both beast have politics

Anathema is special but still

Also holy shit giyko just delete half of my health bar with a kick

Playing Fruma with 200ms is ass bro

[whole river]

I would hope there’s some structure there, maybe even a new race

Tieflings time?

[exotic yew]

I mean

Rol doesn't have politics

[whole river]

We haven’t seen all of ROL tbf

[exotic yew]

Ehhh

Well I cannot say much about that

But

[whole river]

But yeah ROL is quite boring in that regard

[exotic yew]

Dern and Orphion are not supposed to be like a region

They're more like living creatures

Think of when you entering rol like you enter Orphion

's Body

[whole river]

Orphion secretly nukes all attempts at his light creatures creating a town 🗣️

[exotic yew]

Like does you body started making a house inside of you

Well I mean technically we're made of millions of smaller creature working in sync but

You know what I mean

[whole river]

I mean yes

in a way

[exotic yew]

Politics inside a body sounds insane

But I mean

Sure I guess

A lot of things gonna get melted off by WBC

[slim belfry]

the blood cells within my 2nd vein in my left arm wanna start a revolution

[whole river]

Since Orphion is a higher entity than the average Joe, I wouldn’t say it’s impossible. But I doubt we’ll see a town in ROL

[exotic yew]

Getting labeled as cancer

Also if it's rbc it's impossible

It has no brain

[fervent sun]

does anyone remember the Heliolux people from old realm of light? lol

[exotic yew]

Well unless you're like

[whole river]

Vaguely when I played in high school

[exotic yew]

Birds or something

[slim belfry]

nope I have no idea what those are

[whole river]

Wait

What the fuck is that where I got that thought from

[exotic yew]

Rbc does selflobotomized upon maturity

[whole river]

I forgot the realm of light literally had a village

[fervent sun]

yeah lmao

[exotic yew]

Scrapped

[whole river]

#BRING IT BACK

[exotic yew]

Tbf it doesn't fit too well with new concept

[whole river]

Yeah it doesn’t but I wish they would’ve reintroduced them in the light forest

[exotic yew]

I feel like body direction is a good way

[whole river]

Which as of now is weirdly empty of any light related quests

[exotic yew]

But that's just my preferences

[exotic yew]

Shroom beings

🙏

[whole river]

Shroom civilization NOW

[exotic yew]

I still cannot believe Orphion didn't contact you in fruma

[whole river]

These guys were cute

[exotic yew]

Like bro keep doing the same shit of being absolutely stupid

[slim belfry]

anathema's presence probably blocks any outside "signals"

[exotic yew]

It would be so peak if Orphion been gaslighting you throughout fruma

Or urge you to enter fruma

Like

What the fuck is bro doing

Bro got his parasite shot and dipped

[whole river]

He’s recovering prob

Getting drained for a while probably cooked him

[exotic yew]

Ok but like this is golden chance for him to use you to kill the queen

It's so stupid

[whole river]

It’s kinda weird cuz in a way Orphion seemingly doesn’t want the war to end

[exotic yew]

He just kinda do what he does for thousands of years

[whole river]

He just accepts the status quo

Which I wish they explored more of

[exotic yew]

Which is really weird

He's supposed to want to get rid of dern

But he does absolutely jackshit

[whole river]

Does he? What purpose does he have if not to fight the dark

[exotic yew]

His goal is the same as the dark

[whole river]

He’s been fighting it for longer than time itself, reminds me of Nier automata a little bit

[exotic yew]

They both hate eachother

Now While I agreed he might have grown tried of it but I don't think that's what cts wants us to think or want to take the story in that direction

[whole river]

He hates the dark but he never moves against the dark

He always does just enough to bring it back to a stalemate

[exotic yew]

Like it's very clear they wanted him to be a threat

But if he only wants balance then

Would he actually be a threat

[whole river]

I doubt they’ll go that direction but I think an orphion who doesn’t actually want to annihilate the dark, in order to keep fighting for the one thing he was born to do, is kinda neat. And kinda makes sense for a being like him

[exotic yew]

What the fuck did he even do

[whole river]

Lari…and then 1000 years later the player

And he only utilized the player to kick the parasite out

[exotic yew]

Idk man

He got lari and does nothing with her

Almost got himself killed

[whole river]

Orphion is a bit sus, keeping an eye on him

[exotic yew]

So he called out to anyone powerful enough to help him

And that's...

It?

[whole river]

Imagine he tried waking up tasim and Tasim just freaked tf out and ran

[exotic yew]

😭

You can do that with my Orphion player model

Trust

||Shameless self plug||

[exotic yew]

He definitely needs more action

He kept blaming lari for how she's not doing the thing but his ass doing absolutely nothing is insane

I mean I guess we have like

Soul sucking monolith in lutho

Which also heals

[lilac vale]

i NEED to know the fruma industrialisation lore

[hybrid gazelle]

it said it in game

like Soosu is responsible for it

[lilac vale]

surely not all of it?!?!

[hybrid gazelle]

there is secrect discoveries about how Soosu come to invent it

IDk what you mean by all of it

it explain pretty well in the game

and how it tie to Soosu as character

what started as project to allow herself to have more free time with her friends and family

[lilac vale]

like, that's just plain unrealistic at that point, from steam locomotives to vending machines to pesticides to chainsaws?

[hybrid gazelle]

she been soverign for long time

these things can be invent at some point

I dont get what you trying to say here

[lilac vale]

i am trying to say that the base technologies required to achieve this level of industrialisation requires hundreds of years of engineering by thousands upon thousands of engineers and scientists, and one person invented them all

so-

[hybrid gazelle]

who say it was one person

[lilac vale]

or sorry, credited with

[hybrid gazelle]

there literally entire discovery of her having a team after she becoming soverign

[winged narwhal]

I mean, presumably she isn’t responsible for every invention

[hybrid gazelle]

Yasanu just said all things can be TRACED back to Soosu

but Soosu is not directly invented them

it could be people fro muniversityu

it could be people that Soosu have as a team to research

[winged narwhal]

She’s just quite good, and then having the ability to manipulate matter in the atomic level is… helpful to kickstart things

[hybrid gazelle]

the Industree is example of this

[lilac vale]

oh, not to mention packaging technologies required to make canned drinks

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah LOL

I mean yeah what about it

these things can be invent by other people

she literally has team that invent industree once

who to say these things are not the same too

[winged narwhal]

Soosu probably pioneered atomic theory in Wynn

[lilac vale]

interesting, if i may ask, which secret discoveries and quests was this information included in?

[hybrid gazelle]

Life Before Technology

And The Great Sap Siphon

anmd also literally like info scatter throughout the quests when they talk about Soosu

it a crumbs

[lilac vale]

notes taken, will consult the sources

[hybrid gazelle]

there also Soosu diary in Price of Ingeniunity

[primal anchor]

they should add an easter egg for if you do the great bridge world event with immolation

[wary lantern]

just realized

the parasite got into RoL

despite that being something orphion can normally just deny

[whole river]

They should put a mythic alter room at the bottom of the bridge

[wary lantern]

derns advantage has to be bak'al atp

[whole river]

Like restitution has

[wary lantern]

only he would know enough abt it to sneak things through the weave like that would require

[whole river]

Yeah the dern beast got the parasite in prob

It attacked while they were both on omegle

[wary lantern]

either using bak'al or his knowledge

wait am i in the wrong channel

no ok i am in lore chat ok lol

idk what else the advantage could be atp

it facilitated the parasite delivery where itd be otherwise impossible

[whole river]

I mean that was more cuz lari failed to kill it while it was weak

[wary lantern]

thats why it lived to get to that stage of its goal

[whole river]

And then it got strong enough to where it could break through while Orphion was weakened

[wary lantern]

but to get into rol its not like it can just walk in

orphions influence over gavel was weakened

not his actual core power, that was the direct compromising of orphion by the parasite itself doing that

and we see bak'al can just waltz on in

he still has enough power and knowledge even without the Weaver

[whole river]

Bakal waltzes in after Orphion is under the parasite

[wary lantern]

true ig

[whole river]

Not before

[wary lantern]

but two couldnt go in

and orphion still has to recover, its not instant

[whole river]

Two doesn’t have the dern beast as a benefactor

[wary lantern]

so the advantage is bakal then why are you agreeing in the most argument sounding way ever i got so confused 😭

bruh

cuz two has war's blessing too

[whole river]

I don’t believe Bakal is the advantage, actually

[wary lantern]

bak'al just has both dark and war

[whole river]

Like, it would be a piss poor advantage

[wary lantern]

and he was the one to make the Weaver so he knows how to mess with the weave

[whole river]

1000 years just to barely be winning against humans

And got his ass beat by Bob

[wary lantern]

well i mean itd be stupid if they just went "oh yeah the advantage was this random macguffin we literally never set up before now"

bob was very special tbf

[whole river]

Isn’t it worse if it’s the guy who lost to not only Bob but lari

And again, the corrupter of worlds

[wary lantern]

and its more the combination of his power and knowledge

he was the guy who made the resonance weaver in the first place

his departure is likely why it can no longer be used like it was in that original situation

when did he lose to cow

he didnt need to fight it

there would be no point but to get himself injured, all he had to do was free it and itd just kill everything

thats like saying a bomber plane lost the battle against its bomb because it flew away before it was caught in its own explosion

[whole river]

It destroyed an entire army of his and Bakal had to call off the siege

Is that not a loss?

[wary lantern]

when what

i dont rmeember that

also thats. the armys loss

he didnt fight that

it jsut mowed down his undead and regular undead are weaksauce

mf just fed the guy

[whole river]

I mean, he didn’t defeat it

[wary lantern]

its a loss in terms of strategy

not in terms of his power

very different things

[whole river]

So he just..left it?

[wary lantern]

what the fuck else do you do

[whole river]

Beat it?

Seal it?

[wary lantern]

again literally no damn reason

[whole river]

The twains did it

and they’re supposedly fodder compared to Bakal

Actually new agenda unlocked

Bakal couldn’t even do what some orphan boys did

[wary lantern]

i dont even know wtf ur point is man atp ur just being contrarian

nvm

[whole river]

The point was I don’t think it’s that easy to guess the main advantage was Bakal

How am I contrarian if we agreed on something like not even two hours ago lol. Chilllll

Actually it can’t be Bakal anyways, the secret discovery proved that wrong

[cursive surge]

Well Bakal killed most of the Twains, so we know he has to be pretty powerful
Judging from how strong Theorick is, the Twains were no joke, especially in their prime, which Theorick certainly isn't in when we fight him

[frozen turtle]

The Dern Beast is stated to have some weird source of power which is how he got the parasite (either creating it or getting it)

[whole river]

From what we know of the secret discovery, he says the new power invigorates him

Can’t be Bakal

[frozen turtle]

plus, the queen doesnt know what the new power is

[whole river]

Unless Bakal is like a battery for dern beast which I doubt

[frozen turtle]

so it def isnt bakal then

[whole river]

Totally forgot that too

@wary lantern aye we figured it out

[frozen turtle]

Cause if it was Ba'kal, it would imply that somehow the dern beast managed to utilise the realm of war without the realm of war even detecting it at all

[whole river]

It wouldn’t make sense that the queen couldn’t sense that true

I assume it’s something more cosmic than a single being

[frozen turtle]

Ba'kal still has his blessing im pretty sure so yea no way anathema can't tell the realm is losing power

cosmic is weird

[whole river]

Wrong term

[frozen turtle]

cosmic crystals were near the SE area ig at some point

[whole river]

I meant like grand

[wary lantern]

bakals new power is derns blessing, wdym we dont know

wut

[frozen turtle]

no that

[whole river]

Dern beast is the one with the new power

Not Bakal

[frozen turtle]

yeah

[wary lantern]

o

misread

[frozen turtle]

Dern has a new power which allowed it to get the parasite directly to realm of light pretty sure

[wary lantern]

maybe absorbed bakals blessing? idk

[frozen turtle]

cuz Orphion could only get his monoliths to the silent expanse

[frozen turtle]

i think anathema could tell honestly

[whole river]

Doubt it, how would fruma queen not know

also why would absorbing a blessing from a weaker realm help

[frozen turtle]

the blessing uses war itself im pretty sure or smth like that

also Ba'kal is still corrupted like in his skin

[whole river]

Gotta be something beyond that we don’t have all the pieces for

[frozen turtle]

so he couldn't of had it taken away

cuz wasnt ba'kals blessing done shoddily by anathema which made him corrupted

[spring kernel]

Bakal has not been blessed by darkness

[whole river]

Lore nerd stepping in👀

[wary lantern]

tf ok

even saphanis dont want him lmao

rejected by all the gods

[cursive surge]

Perhaps the advantage is Bak'als knowledge of the Resonance Weaver? If he's in line with the Dern Beast, making another Resonance Weaver for her would probably be very useful, even if we don't know exactly what it would be able to do

[whole river]

It’s so funny today has just been people hyping up Bakal before the theory is just wrong 😭

[wary lantern]

dunno just feels stupid to have bakal be a total failure the whole way thru and then die?

like lari got bullied for that but we just. expect bakl to be the same and only get upset if he does end up being cool?

idk

i dont get it

[whole river]

I mean I don’t think lari should’ve been bullied for it, and I actually like Bakal too so

I just don’t think in any way shape or form he’s the advantage, and I like that more

People expect less from him and then he’ll do something badass and we’ll all get hyped af

[wary lantern]

i disagree with the lari hate too im just offput by the utter disconnect here in the community

like pick a side damn

[cursive surge]

I really hope we get some content reworks at some point to establish Bak'al as a prominent force earlier in the story, since currently we only see him in secret discoveries until RoL 5

[whole river]

It’s mostly because lari doesn’t really flaunt her power like Bakal does if I had to guess

[wary lantern]

tbf i also would just be hella dissapointed if bakal really is just a failboy forever despite the hype/fear/awe its tryna build for him

[whole river]

And also I think Bob being a prominent hero and also notable for always beating Bakal is a bad intro to Bakal lore wise

[wary lantern]

also ana says to kill him next

so like

yeah somethings up with him somehow

him then the beasts

[split night]

RoL rework better make Lari situation more clear, girl need more glow up and empathy from us

[whole river]

The player talking genuinely might change a lot more than anticipated

For ROL especially

It should anyway

[wary lantern]

thats what im saying, ppl always say hes ass and weak cuz theyre compring him to bob, bob is DIRECTLY and EXPLICITLY referred to as "wynn's personal demigod" ingame iirc

ik the comparing him to a demigod is right i just forget if its private or personal or smth else

[whole river]

I agree Bakal needed a better intro

[split night]

I mean he need a win against someone on even ground with him 😭
he lost to Bob and Lari
if the next time we encounter him and we beat him too he will be in aura debt

[whole river]

If your first appearance is a loss, it doesn’t matter to who it will always create this agenda against you

[wary lantern]

he killed at least 2 if not more twains

hes probably why rickeo immolated himself if i had to guess

[split night]

huh
did i miss something, when did this happen

[wary lantern]

that and the undead

some lore mentions multiple twains fell to bakal himself

ofhers to corruption

[split night]

where

[wary lantern]

forget which

[split night]

is it in the library??

[wary lantern]

wiki search

lemme look

[split night]

what

[wary lantern]

i saw it a few days ago

wdym what

[paper wyvern]

Nessak ultimate I think

[wary lantern]

right yeah

[cursive surge]

Yeah Bak'al is responsible for the deaths of quite a few Twains

[whole river]

Rickeo beating the horde then immolating against Bakal himself could be peak

[split night]

??
the ultimate is the grave one

where is it

[cursive surge]

I don't think it's the ultimate one

[wary lantern]

nope its lusuco library mb

there u go

[hybrid gazelle]

Golden Tasim

[split night]

oh neat
the twains got killed offscreen

[cursive surge]

Yeah most of the Twains are glossed over, unfortunately

[wary lantern]

we know rickeo fuckin immolated himself to protect the Great Bridge, i have to assume that was a response to bakal cuz what else would warrant that, the shits STILL molten after all

[wary lantern]

yesssss

omg

[split night]

manaweavers are something else

[wary lantern]

oh wait is that canon???

i mean ig itd check out

[paper wyvern]

It's the library

Eventually, one by one, the Twains fell. Some to Bak'al - immortal leader of the corrupt, some to corruption itself.

[wary lantern]

something you can be born with and hone over time

hell maybe bob was too

but idk

[split night]

no not really
im just deducting that they might be manaweavers
since you can see that they can control magic without a focus and is said to be gifted

born gifted i mean

so manaweavers

[split night]

yeah i got it

[wary lantern]

ooohhh yeah wait

cursed in that sense being the same could check out

hmmm

cool

[paper wyvern]

There's 3 different classes of magic use
Focus
Focusless
Manaweaving

[split night]

cursed is more like
being able to use magic, not the same

[paper wyvern]

The second category exists

[wary lantern]

did you even read my message

[cursive surge]

Pretty sure "cursed" doesn't actually mean anything, anyone is capable of using magic

[wary lantern]

also if we're being pedantic yeah, it just means the crown doesnt like u

[split night]

I might have misinterpret it because i read it

[wary lantern]

"cursed in that sense" referring to innate magic user not needing a focus to cast

[split night]

i mean as long as you are a noble, you are fine doing magic
Her's Majesty just hate poor people

[paper wyvern]

Yeah cursed is just a label for magic use not endorsed by the crown

[wary lantern]

what are we even talking about now

nvm im leaving

ahfjskfksjf

[split night]

what?

[wary lantern]

i was alr saying that

[cursive surge]

Also, I would argue there is a huge amount of support for Theorick being a manaweaver
Doing something like freezing over Nesaak shouldn't really be possible if he isn't one

[whole nebula]

The player was called cursed despite the fact that we are a type of focus magic user

[wary lantern]

cursed doesnt mean magic necessarily it just means anyone they dont like which doesnt even include all magic users

once again no one reads "in that way"

[paper wyvern]

No cursed means magic

[split night]

No??
it's pretty clear that cursed mean magic

like

[wary lantern]

holy shit what

[split night]

it has been repeatedly shown in the main quest multiple time

[wary lantern]

i should have knownbetter than to trust wynncord's reading comprehension

it is one of the things it can refer to

[paper wyvern]

Yeah your reading comprehension sucks

[wary lantern]

also you are LITERALLY contradicting yourself now

all of you troll shits are getting blocked thanks for making it obvious i guess

[split night]

"curse doesn't mean magic necessarily it just mean anyone they don't like which doesn't even include all magic users"

??

are you drunk writing this

and then insult us

😭

[paper wyvern]

I mean sui struggled to freeze the damn without help

[whole nebula]

Yeah and the general implication is that natural born manaweavers seem to be adept at manipulating elements, which in this case allowed theorick to be strangely effective at fighting corruption due to how the resonance device was used to explain corruption's manifestation

[paper wyvern]

But I do think it is reasonable albeit I don't personally support the theory

[whole nebula]

Sui had magic for like weeks at best while theorick had 40+ years before bakal tried to take over nesaak. She just needed tasim's limiter unlock to feel the elements faster

[split night]

yeah that make realize how powerful theorick is damn
he might be able to take on bak'al 1v1

[whole nebula]

Definitely not but he's not too far off from pure scion tier

[tepid blade]

Majin literally says that being cursed and using magic are the same thing

[split night]

yeah hm, actually getting into P*werscaling is weird as hell

cuz Sui went with us to fight Anathema

[tepid blade]

But off course it also has him saying the obvious, that it is a means of controlling the public

[tepid blade]

True, powerscaling in Wynn if kind of fucked

[cursive surge]

In A Hunter's Calling, Bak'al mentions that he doesn't want to fight Theorick
While that's not canon, we know that Bak'al never does fight Theorick, despite actively killing multiple Twains, so I assume it's true that he's avoiding him

[split night]

I think we already got it clear that the guy just ragebait us xd

[whole nebula]

If we follow AHC to be somewhat true, Theorick had no chance against a 1v1 encounter with bakal, but bakal is unable to personally melt theorick's suicide attack on neesak

But yeah Wynn powerscaling is fucked

[tepid blade]

I know, I was just bringing physical evidence

[split night]

I'm bak'al could beat Theorick but it would be one hell of a fight

[cursive surge]

I think that Theorick might've been able to take Bak'al because of the elemental advantage, not out of raw strength

[whole nebula]

That could certainly be the case

[cursive surge]

And yeah, powerscaling gets real weird, especially with the introduction of Mana Weavers

[whole nebula]

Sui casually breaking the entire powerscaling system by herself

[tepid blade]

i think Bak'al doesn't fear loosing a fight against Theorick, but more fears that the amount of damage Theorick could do to him and his army outweighs a victory

[split night]

we won't know whether or not a character could beat one another without them actually fighting so

[split night]

yeah, it's just not worth it

[whole nebula]

I like this interpretation

[whole river]

Isn’t this…a good thing for Bakal?

Bakal can use flames

[whole nebula]

Bakal seems to be fairly impatient despite being effectively immortal

[whole river]

Theorick almost died to rickeo who had flames

[tepid blade]

True, and even then we don't get to see all of the characters power in a fight, either because they just don't show it, or they held back

[paper wyvern]

Honestly I'm putting manaweaver with olm on the powerscale

[whole nebula]

Tbf none of the Twains were seriously trying to kill each other there

[cursive surge]

Theorick's ice specifically is known to repel corruption
Also, many corrupteds are weak to water

[paper wyvern]

Cause RN it's way too high if you don't nerf it with headcannon

[whole river]

They had Theorick on death’s row for a “play fight”

[split night]

they are like siblings so, i doubt they intend to went full on murder mode

[whole river]

Bakal is way beyond the corruption Theorick dealt with. Hell, he was losing as is to the corruption gradually

[whole nebula]

Makes sense

[cursive surge]

He was spread thin and tired, the problem didn't seem like his magic just wasn't strong enough

[split night]

could Theorick snowgrave himself

[cursive surge]

He kinda did

[fervent sun]

ice barrows

[whole nebula]

Yeah theorick kinda tried to kill himself slowly on purpose

[tepid blade]

I mean, have you seen Neesak, he kind of did already, unless that is not what you meant

[whole river]

Just means his magic was clearly bad at repelling the corruption, the fact he had to do it so many times and it’s not even Bakal-levels

[cursive surge]

That's like saying a sword is bad at repelling corruption. Just because corruption comes back doesn't mean something is bad at repelling it

[whole river]

The only ice he’s done that lasted was when he iced himself, compare that to his old ice that constantly melted

And again this is regular corruption!

[tepid blade]

Well, his old ice didn't terraform an entire region into a snowy forest

[whole river]

He’s sweating over the bare minimum

[whole river]

Agreed

[little pasture]

wow... i find you guys talking about Theorick just now after I murdered him in A Hunter's Calling....

[whole river]

Gotta add that Bakal can use fire too, and we know that beats Theorick

[whole river]

Lmfao

[little pasture]

literally less than 3 minutes ago

[whole nebula]

Tbh I have no clue what the continuity on getting corrupted is anymore

At first I thought anyone that entered the realm of war gets corrupted

But Zeph came out of it unscathed in WTP

[whole river]

Zeph’s just like that

[grizzled sphinx]

not being able to tell tasim about ||aledar dying|| even after going through all the dialogue kinda cringe...
obv ik it comes up later in the questline but still zzzzzzz

[muted crypt]

im sure this theory has been brought up before but has anyone considered that we (the player character) may be, in some form, a being of influence

[split night]

not only zeph
4 people come to the realm and make it out normal

[mossy widget]

u just have to wait fam

[split night]

player's Character realm beast theory has been pulling up more lately

[mossy widget]

not in the game Yet

[muted crypt]

I had thought about it before but knowing how Anathema came into existence it makes more sense

beast of balance? idk

[cursive surge]

It's something I was thinking about as well

[muted crypt]

or maybe

[cursive surge]

Beast of Twilight? Or something related to the cosmos?

[muted crypt]

beast of Void

since yk, we have absolutely nothing within

[cursive surge]

They're referred to as empty repeatedly, and the infinite cosmos is relatively empty

[split night]

we're pretty chaotic xd
i mean most of the goal we achieve is ultimately for the good, the way we achieve it is a little bit "why did chara make us do this"

[muted crypt]

beast of chaos could make sense too

and

existence is chaos

if either other beast wins there wouldnt be chaos

[whole nebula]

It's an interesting theory I saw on reddit not too long back where they claimed that chaos which borned anathema also borned peace which technically also makes us a realm beast

[muted crypt]

so it aligns with our desires

[split night]

I always imagine that we are a black hole of somekind, the event horizon being the mask of vast emptiness and the sparkle nested deep within is the singularity

[muted crypt]

I can see this

[whole nebula]

Like the budget mythic wand

[muted crypt]

but ofc

[split night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1135348779877404869/1402455625816084580/1277048160359026770.gif

[muted crypt]

the biggest argument against the theory would be that we have no connection to the plane of influence

[whole nebula]

Yeah which makes it strange

[muted crypt]

perhaps it has something to do with our memory wipe, maybe War did it to us purposefully

[split night]

they leave it vague for Up to interpretation gimmick

[whole nebula]

We have no past before the memory wipe I think the quests made it pretty clear

At first I always thought it was just a cute jab that we're the player and they're just doing a bit to that

But I think there's deeper lore ties they're going with this

[split night]

no i'm pretty sure it leave space for us to make a past for our own character i think

[cursive surge]

It probably was originally and then got retconned

[whole nebula]

Also possible

[muted crypt]

I mean we can make our own past up, but for vagueness sake no past is the same as an interpretative past

[cursive surge]

Do we think that the player is actually from Fruma, or maybe they just sorta, popped into existence?

It's not like anyone from Fruma recognizes them

[whole nebula]

I think it's a lot more adjacent to the latter

[split night]

Recover the Past did mention us
anything before that is up to you

[muted crypt]

so giving us 0 existence at all isnt necessarily bad for allowing us to make character lore

[whole nebula]

I don't think we have any files on us anywhere in fruma

[split night]

yeah we do??

the one in Zhiroak tower thingy

[muted crypt]

we do

[split night]

in auburn region

[muted crypt]

yea

[fierce oasis]

We definitely do, that’s integral to one of the main quests

[whole nebula]

I mean in the sense in our prewipe past

No?

[cursive surge]

Yeah that report was made based on the Fort Torann incident, not our past

[whole nebula]

Unless if I missed that part

Yeah ok then I just worded that poorly my bad

[muted crypt]

or perhaps actually

[cursive surge]

As for Recover the Past, it gives no confirmation we are actually from Fruma

[muted crypt]

when in recover the past is it mentioned that we do

[cursive surge]

The orb just blows up

[muted crypt]

I remember seeing the memory wipe scene but that was from tasims pov

[muted crypt]

yea

[split night]

huh?
I thought that was they talk about the Fort torannn in that quest so they couldn't make a paper about us while talking about it or at least that

[split night]

??
"now who do we have here" after like tasim got brainwashed

[cursive surge]

The player says they're from Fruma, but we never see their past, and in a previous iteration of the quest Picard says it's like we hav eno past at all

[split night]

hold on

[muted crypt]

thats them seeing us in tasims memory

not our own memory

[cursive surge]

Yeah the player wasn't actually in the room when Tasim was getting brainwashed

[split night]

Is this your interpretation of that line?

[muted crypt]

its the correct interpretation

[split night]

not what i meant

[muted crypt]

they see us and then picard says we are beginning to get trapped in the memory

[muted crypt]

yea

[split night]

It's more "hey you next in the line"

[muted crypt]

nah

[split night]

than we being literally in the memory

[muted crypt]

he’s asking what we are

as we are leaking into the memory

[split night]

otherwise the detail of us existing the caravan at the very start of the game wouldn't make much sense if we aren't literally from Fruma

[muted crypt]

the room is empty u can see it in tasims pov

[split night]

if we literally pop in to existent, the caravan driver would know that xd

[muted crypt]

notice something

when the recruits are coming through

in a journey home

they are ONLY coming in pairs

[whole nebula]

HOLD UP

ARE YOU COOKING

I'VE NEVER EVEN NOTICED THIS DETAIL

[split night]

coming in a batch of pair?
why is the number 3 so hard to accept xd

like couldn't they just give a batch of 3 person coming to wynn instead of 2

[lilac vale]

aledar and tasim were established as a pair ish

[muted crypt]

bc we might have actually popped into existence in the cart lmao

[lilac vale]

where in the story we came in is the mystery

[cursive surge]

Hmmm
I can see the interpretation of the Inquisitor being intrigued at being unsure about some vague power in the player
But I think it's far more likely that the memory version of the Inquisitor recognizes there's some strange magic going around and is addressing the memory

[frozen turtle]

its more, every single batch was 2 people, not a mixture

[split night]

then the Caravan driver would notice like if it always IS a pair, wouldn't he question about it??

[frozen turtle]

idk

[cursive surge]

Maybe he noticed and reported it afterwards?

[muted crypt]

i doubt he gives a shit

[whole nebula]

I don't think he gets paid enough to care

[muted crypt]

if he did he wouldnt stop you

[lilac vale]

it's not like he can just drag people into fruma anyway

[frozen turtle]

caravan driver is suspicious anyways

[muted crypt]

just more recruits

[lilac vale]

well, sure, he can

[cursive surge]

Yeah caravan driver isn't just gonna say "sorry that's too many people, I'm sending one of you back to Fruma"

[split night]

come on now
the first thing to do when you establish a theory is to try and disprove it
if you can't disprove your own theory then it make it more plausible

[cursive surge]

Even if he knows it's off script

[tough kelp]

why does everyone lowk hate lari

[whole nebula]

Tbf wynnooblet makes a very good point

[lilac vale]

no kill when kill is necessary or something

[split night]

that's weird because in ajh, you also see one person in the train and no one else

[whole nebula]

We have a lot more signs of the player not existing than we do of them existing

[split night]

are they gonna move the train back to get another so they can walk in pair??

[muted crypt]

other cars are closed

we can assume theres more

[split night]

absolute pacifism

[cursive surge]

That might not necessarily be a recruit

[split night]

might be a recruit

i could also assume there is none in the other carts

[frozen turtle]

The caravan driver was also suspicious in bringing us into Fruma, in the report they were going to question him because it's something that was abnormal/strange to do

[cursive surge]

To be fair to the caravan driver, what was he supposed to do, fight us?

[split night]

we-pop-into-existence theory 😭

[frozen turtle]

Like if it was customary to bring them to the fort if someone tries to re-enter, why's he being questioned about it

[muted crypt]

if we are a realm beast it makes sense

overall this ties to player realm beast theory

[frozen turtle]

I doubt we just popped into existence but we clearly weren't meant to be there

[warm flicker]

In Recover the Past, the inquisitor specifically says that the cart sending Tasim into Wynn can carry two more convicts - strange that it’s the only known trio sent into Wynn but Fruma seems to be aware of it at least

[cursive surge]

If we're not using the pairs as evidence, maybe we pop in somewhere else along the line, after memories are wiped but before the caravan

[muted crypt]

“can carry 2 more” doesnt mean theres 3

it just means it can fit another pair of 2

we arent mentioned at all there

theyre just gonna send aledar and tasim

[split night]

wouldn't it leave like, idk some evidence of a portal breaching the realm somewhere or at least recorded
if we did breach the physical realm it should at least be noticable or known by someone

[frozen turtle]

I wonder if its cannon or when they made it the CT just thought it was easier to put them in pairs

[muted crypt]

if we were there it wouldnt be able to fit 2 more without making it so that we’d be split up

with a random

[cursive surge]

Why is Fruma even sending recruits if there's still a cave-in?
Do we think the cave-in is staged?

[split night]

because like
the theory of us poping into existence with no prior past is just gonna kill off a lot of OCs and other theories if it turns out ot be correct, it make me doubt that it being correct

[muted crypt]

prob the latter but still a detail to consider

[cursive surge]

I think those OCs can just exist as normal wynn soldiers, and not fight strictly into canon as the player

[muted crypt]

how does it kill OCs if your OC literally pops into existence

[cursive surge]

because the realm beast theory would kill off those ocs anyways

[cunning geode]

why would killing off theories make it less likely...

[muted crypt]

just bc your OC cant be rexes brother doesnt mean its ruined

[split night]

because it's WEIRD
entropy just randomly decided that all the atoms in the air spontaniously combien into us one day??

like, no flair, no nothing

[regal spire]

I think it’s far more likely that all OC’s, and all origins, could be correct, but the nature of what we (yes, you and me) ended up doing to their reality, once we took over, changed it. I think that, once this void took over the player character, whatever origin they once had was wiped from reality

[split night]

random, and just exist

[regal spire]

Feels fitting for the void, imo

[frozen turtle]

they want the player to be able to have their own OC's so I doubt they'll see the player just appeared randomly

[whole nebula]

The queen gets to not care about the corruption meanwhile getting rid of anyone that could be going to resistance it kinda adds up

[muted crypt]

it worked for anathema

[split night]

she breached the realm and enter fruma via a portal of some kind

[frozen turtle]

yeah, thats what they said didnt they

[whole nebula]

They kinda have to get rid of people somehow

[frozen turtle]

that the bridge, cavein and such was to deter people from wandering back

[split night]

she would do a cover up to like, cover the past just in case that happen

because only her scions know her true nature so

[cursive surge]

Oh yeah
Perhaps it's time for me to go to sleep, I'm starting to forget details like this 😅

[frozen turtle]

crazy they managed to make a one way bridge

[muted crypt]

having my oc be from fruma ruins my oc lore that I wanted where i come from gavel and am a villager so pls dont make the player from fruma

[split night]

it's kinda hilarious that the bridge keep collapesing and rebuild itself every time

like some kind of time magico n it

[whole nebula]

Afaik bakals resonance weaver forged her the shell to be in the physical plane. The portals made from the realm of war are uncontrollable because its chaotic in nature

[cursive surge]

The logistics of it are hilarious

[whole nebula]

We don't really know if there was a lasting portal

[frozen turtle]

i mean they crash the carriage over and over again so

[warm flicker]

Wait the weaver was bakal’s doing?

[frozen turtle]

honestly makes sense

[whole nebula]

And anathema probably couldn't just go through the great corruption portal in Wynn otherwise she would've done so

[split night]

she's a big woman, like i imagine the portal would behave the same as the one in Apotheosis but disappear after she breached through

[cursive surge]

• Build bridge that will fall
• Recruits approach, bridge breaks
• Recruits fell tree
• After recruits leave, use magic to reattach the tree to the stump
• Rebuild bridge that will fall

[whole nebula]

Bakal is the first scion and human to meet her so probably

[split night]

she must have seen fruma first hand so

[split night]

weird ass script xd

[regal spire]

Don’t forget to revive the killed grooks in the grook cave

[muted crypt]

did anyone notice the tutorial tree is really weird looking as well

the one that falls

after it falls it turns entirely grey

[split night]

yeah they don't look like any tree that we can cut

[frozen turtle]

caravan driver:

• crash into a rock
• go "oh no u better walk"
• fix caravan
  repeat

[regal spire]

Its a conveniently placed fake tree

[muted crypt]

as if it’s made of some other material

[frozen turtle]

instead of what, just leaving the caravan there if the passengers are already asleep

[split night]

it's kinda weird that either no other recruit just didn't ask about how each other got into wynn or at least we haven't seen anyone question about why they all share the same "enter wynn" origin

[warm flicker]

Caravan’s broken? Nah I fix it

[whole nebula]

Very much possible that it's synthetic since they have to reuse it like 10 times a day

[regal spire]

They essentially have a break point connected to a collapsing hinge, where they then lift the tree back up, and reattach it

[split night]

why are they going through so much effort for the damn tree 😭

[regal spire]

Gotta make it convincing

[split night]

wouldn't it be better to make a working bridge xd

[whole nebula]

Nah fr tho

[regal spire]

Hey, no one questioned it

[muted crypt]

bc theyre all brainwashed the same way. they think they applied to be soldiers

and also

many people in wynn were born in wynn

so it’s not like EVERYONE u meet is from fruma

[split night]

i mean most of the recruit seems to be from Fruma

[frozen turtle]

i mean

[muted crypt]

if u ask another soldier “hey whered u come from” and they say “i also came from fruma as a soldier” it makes sense

[split night]

like there are 8 of them i think

[frozen turtle]

technically everyone is from fruma,

when it comes to humans

[whole nebula]

Yeah the king seems to make it clear that soldiers of Wynn rely heavily on the income of fruma recruits

[split night]

well duh xd
before Anathema come, human just populate everywhere

[muted crypt]

which makes me think about something deeper as well

[whole nebula]

But he doesn't seem to say it's entirely 100%

[muted crypt]

if humans are from Fruma, and fruma is the province of War. is it possible that humans are creations of anathema

[frozen turtle]

well it explicetly says that the humans come from fruma and populated wynn

[split night]

i mean
the Troms tribe can't possibly be related to fruma, they are just kinda human from Wynn

[muted crypt]

bringing war wherever they go

[frozen turtle]

but like

a long time ago

[split night]

how long was this ago

[frozen turtle]

before 0AP at the very very least

ancient fruma stuff

[warm flicker]

Atleast since 688 BP, but very likely since at least 1000 BP

[frozen turtle]

but a vast majority of wynn is settlements were fruman

pretty sure all

[muted crypt]

were there humans before anathema or is it possible Anathema created the species

[whole nebula]

If so, it certainly seems unintentional from Anathemas part

Maybe like how she was born to begin with

[muted crypt]

possibly

[whole nebula]

Neither orphion nor the Dern beast intended it

[split night]

like, if it was 1000 years BP then it just far enough that many human in Wynn is in Wynn
otherwise I can say that i originated from somewhere in the continent of Africa and my ancestor just happen to migrate to Asia 😭

[frozen turtle]

yes they were before anathema entered earth

[muted crypt]

I feel like humans are naturally creatures of War just as there are creatures of light and dark

bc yk, we start wars

[frozen turtle]

so i doubt anathema managed to create them before the portal was even open

[whole nebula]

Anathema seemed to have slumbered in the realm of war for a LONG time though before coming into contact with the physical plane though

[muted crypt]

but consider that in the syndra stories everyone lived at peace before anathema

[whole nebula]

We don't really know which came first

[split night]

huh
when did the entire Universe of wynn even exist again, like
when did Light and Dark come into existence

[whole nebula]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[split night]

xd

[muted crypt]

so maybe anathemas emergence into the plane of existence is what tainted the humans with our warlike tendencies

we were peaceful creatures before

[split night]

there are more than one of her now??

i want those anathema

[whole nebula]

She even got crafty with building that spiral surrounded by annis that kiss each other

[frozen turtle]

Light & Dark predated Wynn

[split night]

yeah i know

i just wonder how long ago that was

[muted crypt]

I intended that as possessive but id also like more anathemas

[warm flicker]

Hashr’s betrayal in 688 BP occurred long before Anathema emerged into our plain of existence, I think humans are just like that

[fervent sun]

anathema came to the world at 200 AP didnt she?

[frozen turtle]

• if u count dwarves to of also been tainted, they were killing doguns before 0 AP too

and yeah the entire desert

[regal spire]

She took over Fruma then

[warm flicker]

Not necessarily, that’s when she conquered Fruma

[regal spire]

I think

[whole nebula]

Damn laris older than her shell?

[fervent sun]

yeah yeah youre right

[regal spire]

She started the new age, which was 800 years ago, I’m assuming

[fervent sun]

she took fruma in 200 AP

[split night]

she's an elderly young adult

[muted crypt]

bro dropped hashr lore. u are truly tapped in. respect

[split night]

like soosu being an elderly child

[whole nebula]

Damn thinking about soosu makes me depressed...

[regal spire]

Hashr lore so obscure and unimportant that Idt anyone has even bothered to check it

[whole nebula]

Literally cursed

[frozen turtle]

i love Hashr law

[regal spire]

It’s, like, one of the most important pieces of Human lore that we have rn

[split night]

Soosu situation is just depressing

[regal spire]

Besides Fruma, now, ofc

[muted crypt]

even theorick got more influence

[warm flicker]

Content team silently changed the timeline of desert lore and barely anyone noticed

[whole nebula]

For real

[frozen turtle]

they've been changing timelines to make stuff fit fruma

[regal spire]

Nobody even questioned it, because it was just the same cutscene

[muted crypt]

i mean idk if its not noticed as much as skipped over the region entirely

[fervent sun]

poor hashr even his boss fight is depressing

[warm flicker]

Used to be 1400 BP now it’s 688 BP

[split night]

she's literally older than her parents by now I think
that picture in the secret discovery must be very old

[whole nebula]

Ok now I need to read up on the hashr lore

[frozen turtle]

corkus used to be way older im pretty sure but it's now only 150 years ago

[split night]

😭

[muted crypt]

nobody goes to almuj after their first playthrough

[regal spire]

With Fruma context, Hashr’s lore is literally almost history defining for the development of Tefris’s ideology on Fruman society

[split night]

i just dislike the sand, too bright

[whole nebula]

Almuj and rymek most nothingburger areas I'm sorry

[frozen turtle]

have the translated mythic cutscenes been put somewhere in a document

[fervent sun]

soosu is more than 120 years old

[frozen turtle]

prolly in odl fruman language

[split night]

elderly child 😔

[fervent sun]

yeah

[regal spire]

Its also very funny that a seemingly immortal god (Desert Emperor) ruled another human civilization (desert empire), and it fell in almost the exact same kind of way (unintentional side effect of assuming the one in power’s dethroning/death would solve it’s inherent flaws)

[whole nebula]

Foreshadowing or smth

[regal spire]

Fruma almost got the desert treatment, but with a big ass rift, instead of sand

[split night]

human natural instinct to be a tyrant

[regal spire]

Also, the fact that both the tundra and desert are entirely artificial

How tf did a mesa get there

[warm flicker]

Problems I have with Almuj lore includes: was the region always desert or as green as the Savannah? What did Hashr do after killing his father and why did the people build a giant tomb for the guy who caused the downfall of their civilization? How old is Almuj? What does the economy of the region consist of - tomb robbing?

[regal spire]

Wastelands fucked up reaching that far

[frozen turtle]

one hell of a curse ig

it decided some of the are ashould be a mesa as well

[muted crypt]

maybe it was there before

[regal spire]

Tefris (who I thought I heard was Ba’kal) unironically was inspired by the downfall of the desert empire, and realized the only way to preserve Fruma was the unify its people under 1 culture, 1 ultimate, unkillable ruler, and conveniently found Ana

[muted crypt]

perhaps the sand weathered it down over time

or even buried it

[regal spire]

It’s more how tf did it form

From the desert SD’s, it’s shown to have been there for a while

[split night]

i don't think getting into the geology of Wynn is gonna make any sense

[muted crypt]

mesa was built in 2013 im not gonna say they were considering geological implications

[regal spire]

No sensible rivers allowed

[fervent sun]

tefris is someone?

[regal spire]

I thought I heard Tefris was Ba’kal, but idk

[fervent sun]

hmmm...

[muted crypt]

that would be cool

[whole nebula]

I've heard that theory before

[fervent sun]

indeed

[whole nebula]

But I'm not entirely convinced

[regal spire]

It’d track, ig

[whole nebula]

I don't think we have enough info tbf

[regal spire]

We do not, infact

[warm flicker]

COTL has like half a dozen waterfalls leading to one river that has no outlet, I’m surprised the canyon hasn’t flooded yet

[whole nebula]

But it does line up

[muted crypt]

if different regions had different names for bakal it would make sense

[regal spire]

The things changing non stop

[frozen turtle]

isnt tefris an ancient fruma thing

[regal spire]

Water likely gets moved around nonstop

[whole nebula]

They've been glazing bakal as the mastermind for years atp so it makes sense

[regal spire]

He just would’ve had to survive to the portal

[whole nebula]

We don't talk about how bakal has pretty much been taking L's on screen tho

[warm flicker]

Not anymore after we stopped it (we doomed the region to ecological disaster)

[regal spire]

And, given the technology of old Fruma, I don’t doubt they lived for hundreds of years

[regal spire]

Doguns will surely save us

[warm flicker]

Doguns currently drowning in the COTL sea

[frozen turtle]

is the technology discovered from the mythic cutscenes

[muted crypt]

doguns will summon garaheth at the first sight of a threat

[whole nebula]

Doguns currently trying to finish their 50 word conversation

[regal spire]

I’m under the impression that the Olm and the Humans were interbreeding, and potentially coexisted in similar territory

[muted crypt]

doguns are like megumi from jjk

[whole nebula]

Doguns literally when they see a minor inconvenience:

LOL

[regal spire]

I think the resonance weaver and runes in general are a given for this

[split night]

I wonder how many hair glue did her majesty use to have her hair look like that

[muted crypt]

Bob is proof no?

[split night]

yeah bob is half olm half human

im pretty sure

[muted crypt]

heres my crackpot theory

[whole nebula]

Yeah but his mom kinda withered

[frozen turtle]

the resonance weaver was built by ancient frumans?

[muted crypt]

Bob being half olm means he might still be alive

[warm flicker]

Currently trying to figure out if the Olm and Fruma had a hyper-war or a hyper-alliance

[muted crypt]

bc olm live for a long time

hes in dern somewhere

[whole nebula]

PLEASE

[regal spire]

There’s proof that an Olm and a human snoosnoo’d, but there isn’t a lot of info depicting an alliance between old humans and olms rn. That’s what I mean, and what I’m assuming rn

[whole nebula]

I've been headcanoning that Bob's gonna be a central figure we meet in Dern

[split night]

he's just too important to die rn, i would be HYPE as bell to meet him

like meeting a superhero

as a young fan

[whole nebula]

YEAH

[muted crypt]

olm architecture looks oddly fruman

[regal spire]

Their technology seems to be similar in nature to old fruma tech, though, with the psionic’s crafting incredibly powerful magical artifacts

[muted crypt]

too bad they got nuked

[regal spire]

I don’t doubt the Olm and the Human’s were interbreeding for eons, only to have their capital in the expanse destroyed

[warm flicker]

Want my opinion? Olm originally inhabited the Wynn plains as part of their civilization, fought a war with Fruma and surrendered their town of Sikshahrath (Ragni) and retreated to SE and Time Valley, their remaining lands

[muted crypt]

yk now that I think about it

[regal spire]

I don’t doubt there to be struggles for territory

[muted crypt]

and I think theres evidence against this but

do we have any definitive proof that is was saphanis that nuked the olm

or could it have been anathema

since she alr did it to her own people in auburn secret discovery

[warm flicker]

It’s heavily implied to have been Saphanis

[regal spire]

But, there are pieces pointing towards both species working together, with references to the cosmos, and “the astronomers” being common in descriptions of old Fruma

[warm flicker]

What’s in SE isn’t corruption, it’s pure darkness. Doubt Ana could do that

[muted crypt]

either way I still question the connection between anathema and saphanis

[regal spire]

It was Saph

[muted crypt]

considering how much eye imagery she wears

[regal spire]

Explicitly stated to be them

[frozen turtle]

"Shortly after the portal broke into this hidden land, a beast from an unknown realm laid siege to the city forcing the Olm to his domain."

[split night]

I'm pretty sure it's either Saphanis or comic asteroid
Anathema is like, way too late into the scene considering they were nuked at about 0AP

[warm flicker]

I am inclined to believe, wouldn’t be the first story of enemies to allies, but I still don’t have concrete evidence the astronomers refer to the Olm or to humans with that profession

[regal spire]

All of the SE SD’s point towards the emergence of Saph to be what done em, and the Eye’s influence as a work around Ana’s threat of destruction to their insanity

[muted crypt]

his?

does it refer to saphanis as a He

[warm flicker]

It is also implied that the destruction of SE was the first opening of the portals, before they somehow closed and reopened again

[frozen turtle]

has to be because the olm city fell under saphanis domain so

[regal spire]

It’s very likely a Colonizers killed and bred with the Natives story, which is a common motif in basically every single world in history

[split night]

Saphanis rn have no confirmed pronoun I think
just call them they or it

[split night]

what the hell is this

[regal spire]

I’m fine with them being a they

[whole nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/not-a-sigma-sorry-you-are-not-a-sigma-sorry-you're-not-a-sigma-you-aren't-a-sigma-you-are-not-sigma-gif-337838532227751572

[hybrid gazelle]

I think CT specfically refer as it/its

[regal spire]

We’ve got Orphion for He, Ana for She, and Saph (who I hope to take the form that I’m theorizing) a them

[muted crypt]

theyre all theys

technically

or its

[split night]

Orphion kissed Saphanis and create Anathema

[whole nebula]

Anathema referred to realm beasts as THEY in all caps right

[hybrid gazelle]

It/its also actual pronoun that people use

[regal spire]

Technically, yeah, they’re actually it’s, but they have the power to choose forms for themselves, and settled on what suited em

[muted crypt]

in plural

[hybrid gazelle]

so Saphanis pronoun is it/its

because if it meant to be a mystery

[whole nebula]

That adds up

[hybrid gazelle]

then the mean to refer dern beasdt would be vary

but Saphanis ALWAYS

and ALWAYS

refer as it/its

[regal spire]

I think it’s delightfully interesting that Orphion—the deceptively divine—takes the form of a he, which God is generally referred to as by many

[frozen turtle]

they probably just either it,he or they im assuming

[hybrid gazelle]

it's it

[muted crypt]

i really wish we got like a sneak peek of the dern beasts leg hair or smth at least in fruma

[hybrid gazelle]

It/its

it's actual pronoun

[muted crypt]

im too curious to what it looks like

[hybrid gazelle]

I know people irl that use it/its as their pronoun

[muted crypt]

we know it has arms

[frozen turtle]

so the ct got the wrong pronouns then

[hybrid gazelle]

why?

they always refer Saphanis as it/its

[whole nebula]

Leg hair is an uhhhhh interesting specificity

[hybrid gazelle]

so IDK what you mean

[muted crypt]

I personally think dern beast is a giant tentacle monster with many many eyes

[split night]

just enjoy crow Saphanis rn

[frozen turtle]

not always

[warm flicker]

Please I need this

[hybrid gazelle]

then it likely just came from CT from other department

not from writing

[split night]

The Thing in Purple

[hybrid gazelle]

but in Game

IN THE GAME

Saphanis always refer as It/its

[whole nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-reverse-smile-ishowspeed-confused-gif-17362243368421867313

[hybrid gazelle]

never they/them

[frozen turtle]

no

[regal spire]

I pray that Saph takes no consistent form, and is a chaotic blob of sigils, eyes, and limbs

[split night]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-look-cat-look-at-camera-silly-cat-in-a-cage-gif-889392959852579879

[frozen turtle]

"Shortly after the portal broke into this hidden land, a beast from an unknown realm laid siege to the city forcing the Olm to his domain."

[fallow heart]

I wonder if ct is going to make a better design for saphanis and change the SE ult discovery

[hybrid gazelle]

where is this?

[frozen turtle]

could be an incosistency but they dont always use it/its ingame

[hybrid gazelle]

because this likely an error

[split night]

I'm all in for Crow Saphanis design

[warm flicker]

All I want for Christmas is a SE with new lore bits and secret discoveries

[frozen turtle]

the final moments SD description

[regal spire]

Why would a god that depicts itself as cruel, war mongering, and strategic need a dainty form, when it can take whatever it need to get the job done as effectively as possible

[muted crypt]

my theory is something like this (yes its tadc)

[split night]

like Orphion just be a pet and convince us that he is good

[regal spire]

That, but like an owl mixed with a salamander

[muted crypt]

i thought those forms were only interpretive

like in the canopy stories

[regal spire]

Orphion is basically a hive mind playing the role of heaven

[muted crypt]

does it actually appear to us in a secet disco or smth i havent done them all yet

[regal spire]

“Assimilate into me and know what true divinity is” type shit

[split night]

-# wynnswap

but yeah he just basically give drugs

and ask us to join for more drugs

[regal spire]

It doesn’t take so much of an oppressive form, because its goal for control is to have people fight for it, leading others off example to join it

[frozen turtle]

i hope that Orphion's true form isnt that lame fox-deer thing and he just choses that to make the player think he's good

[regal spire]

The elves are a prime example, tbh

[muted crypt]

i LOVE how they made evil orphion

such a good twist on light vs dark

[frozen turtle]

and we later get a really cool design

[regal spire]

They work to convert those to worshipping the light. They believe it to be a deity, and desire contact with it to full assimilate into its influence

[warm flicker]

During the potential futures part I asked content team if Orphion’s monolith takeover of Cinfras implied the villagers were all sent to “Happier Cinfras” and I got neither a confirmation nor denial

[muted crypt]

that would be even cooler

[hybrid gazelle]

@frozen turtle okay it not refer Dern Beast as Him in game

the wiki got it wrong

can someone go check

what it is in the game

[muted crypt]

realm beasts can obv take any form they want

[whole nebula]

I wish they gave orphion some more ominousness nearing the end of RoL

[muted crypt]

idk why orphion chooses the dog

perhaps to lure us

bc we trust dogs

[regal spire]

It was a perfect ploy for Orphion to take advantage of, where it plays up its “divine” role, leading with riddles and metaphors that intend to trick the minds of the elves into killing the guardian of the forest

[muted crypt]

this is almost making me realize

all these years we were calling orphion “stupid” or “vague”

[fallow heart]

I feel like theres still a general theme they convey
Like even in human form anathema had many references to her moth form

[regal spire]

Ana actually mentions something that I thought was a reference to the guardian of the forest. There are these “seals” that weakened their connection to the plane of influence, and I thought the old guardian of the forest was one of them

[muted crypt]

he was trying to trick us

obv he wasnt being clear

[regal spire]

Oh, dw, bros still an utter moron

[frozen turtle]

afterwards (imo) Orphion then gaslights the shit outta the elves like "No it was a warning not a command 🥺 "

[fallow heart]

Yeah no hes the biggest manipulator in all of wynncraft

[whole nebula]

I had a dream where a future Wynn update made changes to the NoL once you free orphion and you talk with him there's one more piece of dialogue that feels super disconnected and eerie while all music suddenly cuts from the background while he just stares at you with a grin on his face

[muted crypt]

unless he wants u to think he is

[fallow heart]

Like even after freeing him he goes "yeah this is all the queens fault" when it clearly wasn't

[muted crypt]

why did orphion suddenly randomly take interest in us when we showed up. is it possible that he saw the same power Two did?

[regal spire]

He’s a moron because he already had complete influence/control over an entire population/race, and all he had to do was convince the one he gave his powers to that killing a big ass bad bug was the only way to save gavel

[split night]

Wynnsanity
Before fruma
i had a dream about being in the auburn forest for some strange reason

[regal spire]

And he couldn’t even do that, because he was too busy gaslighting and rage baiting with riddles and proverbs

[regal spire]

It’s because we’re unpredictable, and don’t ask a lot of questions

[fallow heart]

I don't think so
Pretty sure he just saw someone that was able to make lari kill (in the grootslang quest)

[regal spire]

He offered gameplay

We took the gameplay

[muted crypt]

i mean we proved that yea, but even before then he immediately pulled himself from lari

[regal spire]

He’s also hella victim rn, so it’s even easier to convince an unpredictable sociopath to fight something

[whole nebula]

Like before it was revealed?

[regal spire]

That’s the idiot part

Orphion fumbled so bad

[split night]

yes

[whole nebula]

Eerie...

[snow kiln]

The Wynnsanity was stronger than silksanity ong

[warm flicker]

Player: “I know what you are” Orphion: “…then you better start running”

[split night]

my mind probably just conjured up some bullshit and im remembering a dream so it might not be as accurate

[regal spire]

That is, unless we see dialogue showing orphion telling Lari to kill this thing, but then Lari says no. Only then will the Lari slander come back.

[muted crypt]

pretty funny that the parasite was literally about to win the war until we showed up

dern beasts pet almost soloed

[snow kiln]

Soloed without even using his secret weapon

[regal spire]

Orphion’s strategy only works without Ana limiting them. Her threat forced Saph and Orphion to be creative, which lead to Orphion being parasited

[muted crypt]

yea now theyre free and we’re fucked

[fallow heart]

Saphanis is lowkey the one who sold
Got literally all of its assets removed from the material plane

[regal spire]

Orphion can’t be a god of influence when he’s objectively out matched strategically by the dark, who likely has access to the same shit the fruma people did

[muted crypt]

I wonder how soon after the events of apotheosis (and the raid) the beasts are gonna realize ana is gone

i’d imagine almost immediately

[warm flicker]

Anyway time to seal up Wynn’s corruption portal with the resonate weaver

[astral void]

After reading the Wynncraft Wiki on some enemies, I now realize how much of a goat Bob was.

[muted crypt]

like next quest immediately

[whole nebula]

Saphanis 100% didn't even intend for the parasite to do anything but serve as a test run to take influence over the physical plane

[snow kiln]

Dude imagine if saphanis thanked us or something when we killed anathema or something

[regal spire]

Orphion’s weakened rn, so gavel’s gonna have to wait

[hybrid gazelle]

okay guys update, the pronoun is fixed

[whole nebula]

Bro must've been STOKED to see orphion fumble

[regal spire]

But, Saph? Oh boy

[hybrid gazelle]

It/its Saphanis let's gooo

[fallow heart]

Im guessing itll stay open for gameplay reasons

[regal spire]

That shit starts NOW

[muted crypt]

unless he’s weakened as well

Bob cooking his ass

been in a 1v1 after all these years

my theory

Bob is alive and fighting saph on and off

[astral void]

Bro Bob is so badass according to the wiki on some enemies

[whole nebula]

I will singlehandedly make sure that never happens because I need my Anni rewards

[fallow heart]

Well saph is a wuss and sealed its portal shut
Its afraid of us

[snow kiln]

This would make sense as dern hasn't really done anything the past decade.

[astral void]

So, I saw all of Bob's achievements but why tf when we fought him, he was nearly a minor inconvenience???

[split night]

I'd imagine they all just start out as they then they decided on their pronoun when they discover the concept of gender in the Physical Realm
I mean most eldrich horror thing kinda follow the same path, make the perfect analogy for trans

[whole nebula]

My guy how is Bob gonna fight a realm beast in his own territory

[regal spire]

Prolly cause it realized for half a second “oh god, Ana and this dude could fucking snipe me, better be safe”

[whole nebula]

The agenda must be STOPPED

[muted crypt]

theres a reason i know it

it’s either Bob or smth else

light parasite