📚lore_discussion

[narrow kestrel]

so why didnt she just do that

😭

those two were on something

[hybrid gazelle]

it either she was not htere

or she just wasn ot made awareo f parasite

[whole river]

She didn’t care enough

[hybrid gazelle]

we dont know when she arrive in Gavel

[narrow kestrel]

shes in gavel

[hybrid gazelle]

again we dont know

[narrow kestrel]

and we know she could be contacted by orphion too

so she cant be that far

back then

[whole river]

She said that they asked her and she said no, so it could simply be that she didn’t see anything in it for her

[narrow kestrel]

she just declined for ??? reasons

[hybrid gazelle]

I dont think she ever contacted by Orphion

where is this coming from

[narrow kestrel]

she was literally asked

??

[hybrid gazelle]

when?

[whole river]

Idk about Orphion I thought the people of gavel contacted her

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah

people of Gavel contacted her

[regal spire]

I’m still interested in the depiction of Orphion being a Fox and a Deer/Stag. (2 notably divine creatures in Fruma lore, btw)

[hybrid gazelle]

but I dont remember when did Orphion contacted her

[regal spire]

What else do we have? A salamander? An owl? What else

[hybrid gazelle]

winged serpent

[winged narwhal]

Qira is Potential Scion

[mossy badge]

A serpent

[narrow kestrel]

"called upon"

🤷‍♂️

i dont think it'd be that wording if it was jusr random bozos in gavel

[mossy badge]

He's just a dog and sephanis will be a cat 🔥

[hybrid gazelle]

called upon can be just the government contact her

it not necessery need to be higher being like Orphion

[unique cedar]

Probably thought that helping with decay won't stop the war of the realms from continuing

[narrow kestrel]

most likely reason

[unique cedar]

so she decided to prepare for the chaos?

[narrow kestrel]

ig she didnt view the parasite as the main cause

[regal spire]

I have a sneaky feeling that DB will take the form of the missing divine animals, or go the exact opposite route of orphion, and be a formless blob of sigil and eyes, shape shifting constantly

[hybrid gazelle]

again Qira lore we have rn is incomplete

she likely get revisit when CT get into it

[unique cedar]

Time to wait for Gavel Re-reborn a lot of gavel lore is foggy

[narrow kestrel]

still dont know why she declined though, could have delayed it a bit

[hybrid gazelle]

bercause uh

she

[narrow kestrel]

can we get wynn shit first

😭

[hybrid gazelle]

need build her army

[regal spire]

I’d be hyped if DB was a serpentine owl

[mossy badge]

Why u got that feeling

[narrow kestrel]

40-100 is gavel

[mossy badge]

Meowl

[unique cedar]

Well, yeah that's first obv

[mossy badge]

🔥

[regal spire]

Crawled like a salamander when running

[narrow kestrel]

called upon implies something higher than her

[unique cedar]

You know prob something lizard related

[regal spire]

It also explains the fire balls, btw, if Saph was a winged serpent, breathing fire

[narrow kestrel]

and i doubt yansur would describe random mfs from the government to be above The Mistress ™

[unique cedar]

The Eye can turn in weird ways in the dungeon

[hybrid gazelle]

by definition

[unique cedar]

Also Owls can't turn their eyes

so prob not an owl

[hybrid gazelle]

Call upon can be mean just formal way to ask someone to do something

which would be the case for government such as villager

as they FORMALLY ask her to deal wit hthe decay

[regal spire]

I’m fully expecting an Owl with the body of a serpent

[mossy badge]

Meowl theory debunked 😔

[hybrid gazelle]

call upon does not mean called by higher being

it just FORMALLY being ask to do something

which is

[narrow kestrel]

have you seen the way yansur talks to people outside the hive

😭

[unique cedar]

Watch it be the opposite

[narrow kestrel]

and genuinely i doubt the regular villagers would even dare ask qira

[shut mist]

we do know it has arms

[hybrid gazelle]

and?
it would make sense for him to make it appear the governemnt formally ask Qira for help

[regal spire]

That’s just a harpy

[narrow kestrel]

especially when her hideout looks like an Evil Ass Murder Building ™

[unique cedar]

Harpies don't have lizard faces though

[hybrid gazelle]

I mean

[narrow kestrel]

hell

[regal spire]

Some depictions do, ig

[hybrid gazelle]

she made public apperance in villagers cities and town before

she certainly a feared figure

[narrow kestrel]

we even know the government sends her offerings just to make sure she doesnt

yknow

do murder hobo shit all over gavel

[hybrid gazelle]

I though those are just slaves she pick up from decay area

what offering tho

[narrow kestrel]

i really doubt they'd ask her

[regal spire]

But, I’d just like for my theory to be confirmed that Orphion took a heavenly form to better appeal to known deities people worshipped

[narrow kestrel]

to do something THAT big

if anything they'd probably treat her as dullahan 2.0

😭

[mossy badge]

In the other half of the world lol

[unique cedar]

That's probably Orphion's lesser form no?

[regal spire]

I actually don’t even know if stags and foxes are elvish deities too

[unique cedar]

Eye is like half as big as Orphion

[mossy badge]

No mention

[unique cedar]

surely he'd be bigger if he had the upper hand

[regal spire]

There’s a not zero % chance that orphion took this form for us specifically

[unique cedar]

I mean

we can see in the light forest ultimate discovery

the same form

[regal spire]

Do we get other people’s depictions?

[regal spire]

That’s from our pov, though

[unique cedar]

true

[regal spire]

We are watching this. Who’s to say Orphion doesn’t look different from another NPC’s pov

Does Lari even know what he looks like?

[unique cedar]

Do you think she has a light sigil somewhere on her?

like the sovereigns do with the war sigil

[regal spire]

I think it’s on her back

[winged narwhal]

Orphion changes his form depending on what people want to see, clearly

[regal spire]

I mean, Orphion IS the embodiment of light. Blinding light (much like suffocating darkness) has a way of showing different images in itself

[unique cedar]

My theory is

Orphion is going to be the last we kill

we go kill Derny

and then he gets a power boost and we fight the true form

Probably not in a raid?

would kinda be repeating things

[winged narwhal]

Orphion trying to convince the player to kill Saphanis then not attack them

[unique cedar]

[regal spire]

Orphion feels like it wouldn’t be fought in quest. I have zero clue what’ll happen, but that seems like a job that’ll be split, where we weaken saph, and others manage Orph

[unique cedar]

We glue both beasts together and then kill them at once

[regal spire]

Call my overreach cause 6 bashes

[regal spire]

I think we’ll kill Ba’kal, first, tbh. We’ll weaken Saph until it’s on even playing field again, then either seal them properly, or potentially take out DB first, and end with a post raid Orphion quest boss

[unique cedar]

Ba'kal is probably the final boss of the Dern questline?

Saphanis is the raid boss

[regal spire]

I’d have to imagine

Because I fully believe the power Saph has attained is similar to the power Ana attained

[unique cedar]

And Oprhion is an Avengers Endgame quest boss

[regal spire]

And that’s purely because of Ba’kal

[unique cedar]

Everyone we've helped in quests appear

including Yahya

who deals the final blow

[regal spire]

Yahya could do that, he COULD

But, wouldn’t it be funnier if Mel did

[mossy badge]

🥺

❤️‍🩹 🌹

[unique cedar]

Even more probably

[mossy badge]

Nah

[regal spire]

Wait, wait… Aledar’s soul is used to open EO… would he be freed? And tasim and him can kiss in death’s trivia room?

[winged narwhal]

we use the resonance weaver to seal both orphion and saphanis in humanoid bodies

[regal spire]

Seal them both into the same cage lmao

Have them implode onto themselves

[unique cedar]

afaik aledar's soul got exploded

when the door opened

[regal spire]

I seriously don’t know anymore, because phantasmal hostage is referencing Aledar

[mossy badge]

He's gone from existance 🙏

[regal spire]

Also, hang on, I think it’s really funny that you could, theoretically, never complete EO or NoL, and the game believes you did

[mossy badge]

Ye thats crazy

[regal spire]

The level of busted Queen’s Recruit becomes, if you haven’t done the Mercenary, is very funny

[unique cedar]

weird that it's not required

[regal spire]

Also, mid game rework inbound: gavel is now level 60-100, and its first quest is enabled only after you’ve completed the 30-60 storyline for Wynn Excavation, where the king gives you status and permission to alliance yourself with them. This would, also, explain Tasim being seen as a deserter by his superiors (aside from the king of Ragni, who’s goated)

[mossy badge]

Sounds good

[unique cedar]

Imagine how cool the Gavel Gate is gonna look if/when it is redesigned

Also there's no gavel introduction quest

[limber swan]

I think there should be a quest requirement to enter gavel ngl

[regal spire]

To compensate for the 20 levels of lost content, the scaling for 60-100 is cut back around the 80-90 region, and a majority of quests are now placed within that 60-75 range. You will have a RoL questline that starts itself at 60, very similar to Queen’s Recruit in our access to Gavel. Lari is introduced at level 62, but the first quest introduces us to Gavel, and the potential problems in the swamp fr

[limber swan]

its like that for Corkus, Wynn, Fruma, why not gavel

[regal spire]

I think Gavel should be treated like Fruma

[unique cedar]

Treating Gavel like Fruma is hard though

[mossy badge]

I mean who said there shouldn't be

[regal spire]

But, instead of it being closed borders, it’s just “you need permission/passport to enter through the Llevigar Gates”

[unique cedar]

considering how content rich Fruma is

Gavel is huge

[rugged trench]

Was it ever explained why fruma queen sends recruits to fight the corruption when… she is the corruption? Seems counterintuitive?

[mossy badge]

Llevigar plains is so content rich 🤑

[hybrid gazelle]

yes

[regal spire]

Gavel could be given a similar density to Fruma, considering how it packs 21 quests into such a small area. The swamp has, like, 4 quests, and Llevigar has 3.

[hybrid gazelle]

it explain to you in post raid or pretty sure at any point in the story

Fruma queen despite being Beast of War

is not attatch to her force like Orphion or Saphanis

She is a shard seperate from War and with her own goal and motive

[regal spire]

It doesn’t do much with density, because you have Nesaak and Troms rn. But! If you compacted it to 60-75, you’d have a ton of content for Gavel

[hybrid gazelle]

so sh eis not really corruption

she came from War

just like Corruption

[rugged trench]

Ah

[unique cedar]

the whole jungle area is very outdated

[drifting aurora]

im not sure this is a good density

[regal spire]

You want to zig zag back and forth across the world? Well, the oceans there for that

[rugged trench]

So is she like anni?

[hybrid gazelle]

corruption as a whole is also a shard of larger whole just like the queen herself

[unique cedar]

one thing I absolutely like

[hybrid gazelle]

no annie is a devil

[unique cedar]

Slykaar is like the best dungeon boss besides the eye

[hybrid gazelle]

devils also consider as shards from larger whole

[unique cedar]

replayed the dungeon recently

it aged like wine honestly

[hybrid gazelle]

she STILL is beast of War

[unique cedar]

still good to replay

[hybrid gazelle]

just like Orphion and Saphanis

but War as a whole is lesser than Light and Dark

[unique cedar]

least outdated besides Galleon for obvious reasons

[hybrid gazelle]

she also see Fruma as more of her claim that War ever is

so she literally prefer Fruma in tact rather than corruption

[regal spire]

Why not? I feel Llevigar and the Swamps are quite open for restructuring, with tons of dead space, and not a lot of areas to engage with for content. Quest density is a start, imo, especially density with no distraction or backtracking

[hybrid gazelle]

which is why she sending recruits into Wynn

to ensure the corruption dont reach Fruma

and destroy everything

because even then she has no control over it

[unique cedar]

Let me plug my super cool suggestion while i'm at it : https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1498021460457947237

[hybrid gazelle]

though

Corruption still give her power

which is why she let Bak'al wield it

it just that

she PREFER

not have corruption consume everything because then like

everything will be shit and awful

[rugged trench]

There’s like 4 swamps in this game

[hybrid gazelle]

and she does not want that

[drifting aurora]

llevigar has 7

[mossy badge]

Could u name them

[drifting aurora]

im remembering off the top of my head so theres probably more im missing but olux also has at least 7

[regal spire]

Let me check rq, because I remembered one that I know why I forgot

[drifting aurora]

i dont think pushing gavel up to 60 is the right move

imo there are better ways to solve the back and forth issues

[regal spire]

Seems, Llevigar only has 5, and I don’t really count pirates trove

Lemme check Olux

Oh, wait, 6, forgot that Quartron is close to Llevigar

[drifting aurora]

well pirates trove would have to count because its the start of gavel

if you push gavel to 60

you need to push pirate trove to 60

[regal spire]

I’d want it to go away, is what I’m saying

Also, ik it’s old, but we’ve had 2 Fruma quests do pirate troves entire gimmick as stages

[unique cedar]

Imo

[regal spire]

You just kinda wander around Llevigar, but you don’t really learn where anything is, besides the bank and identifier

[hybrid gazelle]

TBH

I think Gavel still deserve its own introductoryquest

[unique cedar]

quests should reuse mechanics so they're easier to create

[hybrid gazelle]

IDK how you gonna do that

but like

[unique cedar]

Like the forbidden prison sneaking around and missing piece sneaking around

[hybrid gazelle]

SOME QUEST gotta be remake into Gavel introduction

[unique cedar]

should work the same way

[regal spire]

Olux definitely has more, close to 8 I believe. However, its ones like Crop Failure, the Sherk Quest, Master Piece, and shadow of the beast (which I have not done in 5 years)

[unique cedar]

so you wouldn't have to code the same thing twice, but that's probably how that works already to a certain extent?

[regal spire]

That’s a sneak section, though. And there’s actually significantly more to the quest, too. Pirate’s Trove has literally nothing

[drifting aurora]

ideally yes but something like forbidden prison was made long enough ago that its stuff isnt easily reusable

[unique cedar]

It just feels like a lot of effort was put in the Through the Pipes quest for the boat building mechanic for it to only be used once

it's sooooo cool

not the most ideal example

[regal spire]

Its entire quest is to wander around Llevigar and find specific pillars, until you end up in a statue. It doesn’t even take you to notable places in Llevigar, like the potion merchant, or scroll merchant, or some potential secret tunnels. It literally just has you go to a flower, go to the town square, then go to a statue

Like, it’s just the normal path you would’ve taken to traverse Llevigar, but with a statue at the end

[winged narwhal]

They would start making out

[unique cedar]

twins

[summer bluff]

Wynncest

[radiant harbor]

Is the back and forth generally considered as an issue? I found having content in multiple places at once pretty fun

[summer bluff]

Sweet Home Alekin

[regal spire]

Gavel has a bloat issue, and restructuring its quests is a start, imo, but ofc not the solution. So many quests are just filler side quests (which isn’t a bad thing), but it doesn’t feel good to have 7 side quests and 1 main line story quest in a single area. And, unfortunately, due to how it’s structured, the story will potentially be halted every time Nesaak or Troms pops up, if it did have more.

It isn’t like Wynn or 80-100 gavel, where you’re exploring exclusively in that area of the game, and have opportunities to develop some kind of connection to the world. 40-79 Gavel is bloated by not just its own myriad of side quests, but by Wynn’s structure, too. You are forced to go back and forth constantly to stay at a similar level for the quests, and it just feels exhausting to do so for somewhere like Troms, where you have no readily accessible boat to Gavel

It feels like it’s designed to make you exhausted, and that sucks, because there isn’t even alot of engaging stuff there to justify the narrative exhaustion that range of the game forces onto you.

[drifting aurora]

fair enough

[summer bluff]

It weeds out the weak

[regal spire]

Fruma has just made this problem so much more apparent, too. I want to replay the game, and perform it for my partner (who makes me do silly voices for everyone), but I struggle to even want to, since Ik I’m about to exhaust both her and myself with the opening to Gavel.

Also, Fruma is the best thing ever. Makes me feel like I’m playing Deltarune again, where I did the same thing

[regal spire]

It do, unfortunately. Challenge runs and level caps have been my saving grace fr

[slender copper]

It seems like the general issue is that there are many quests that are outdated or are completely overshadowed compared to the more cohesive, understanding, and plot relevant Fruma. I am pretty sure I heard that the CT team is working on redoing a lot of the quests to better fit with what they are able to do now, but for now... we need to wait.

[regal spire]

I also cannot reiterate how much Fruma does for the lazy man player. Someone who just wants to immerse themselves in the landscape, and run around, or AFK

[radiant harbor]

But at the same time fruma is the most linear part of the game so far: making the entire game about fleshing out each area following a precise order doesn't feel like a solution to me

[winged narwhal]

I mean, you have to spend a third of your time in bat cave

[unique cedar]

Finished Fruma so decided to do some professions to see what the profers find fun about it

never again

[mossy badge]

If u ignore half of the content ye

[winged narwhal]

There are notable gaps in Fruma leveling

[mossy badge]

Eh

[slender copper]

But definitely not a third... a bit of an over-exaggeration.

[mossy badge]

Just do every content + a few WEs

I didn't have issues

[unique cedar]

there are only like two

one in mistwoods between one quest

and one in highlands

if you engage in all caves/world events/secret discoveries you only have a bit left to level or nothing at all

[winged narwhal]

I do not enjoy the wynncraft grinding experience so I may be biased in my retelling

I should finish my tour so I can get back to Fruma quests

[mossy badge]

I reached lvl 120 without a single min of grinding 🤯

[regal spire]

It does, to me. Wynn gives you free rein to explore its world, with suggestions for level caps. Gavel, narratively, would have you work for their government, as a representative of Wynn. This kind of structure, imo, only works if you’re tied to a specific level range (my ideal being 60-80, maybe 100, depending on how we are developed in Gavel).

You would be strapped to a more structured storyline, and do tasks as instructed by your superiors, before inevitably seeing something to do with The Decay, and potentially running into Lari. I would want there to be structure in why a human is in Gavel, because it’s a bit nonsensical, considering the nature of Eltom, the silverbull syndicate, and the fact it’s basically only soldiers there. Why can we just go as we please and run around, when the region is very clearly designed to be linear and structured.

Fruma would, then, prepare us for that structure again, but then give us free rein to destroy it, since we’re breaking free into it. The storyline still forces a familiar linearity, but the freedom of no longer being tied to a soldiers representative, or even superior, is gone, now. You’re free to explore all you want, if you’re sneaky about it.

[radiant harbor]

You truly are saphanis' silliest trickster

[unique cedar]

Wynncraft mob grinding is only fun when there's a 2x XP event

[winged narwhal]

Admittedly my specific situation is atypical because I burnt out grinding because i don’t want to finish the Ellie quest at the moment

Or whatever her name is

[radiant harbor]

Why

[unique cedar]

Elise?

[winged narwhal]

I want to continue giving her tours

[unique cedar]

or do you mean Elphaba

[radiant harbor]

It's like the best wynncraft quest ever together with the queen's recruit

[winged narwhal]

Elise

[slender copper]

I'm with you there, can get very mindless.

[regal spire]

Do you? I leveled just fine, doing basically everything it had to offer. Only was grinding for 5 minutes one time, cause I wanted to use architect a level earlier

[radiant harbor]

Fair

[drifting aurora]

the struggle is always organizing these sorts of massive reworks

[winged narwhal]

I’ve been taking her all around the province

And I wanna assemble a full photo album

I even took her to meet Tasim

[drifting aurora]

i will say

i think there would be value to having 2 concurrent storylines running in both wynn and gavel

and as such id be less inclined to such a drastic level change

[winged narwhal]

(I haven’t done the new spider dungeon quest line on this class so he’s just there outside Nivla)

[regal spire]

I’d agree with this more, if it wasn’t as big of a level range, and if Corkus didn’t exist. Corkus actually does the split storyline quite well, and eventually converges them into Kandon for TCC

[drifting aurora]

well wdym As Big A Level Range

[regal spire]

I’ve mentioned this before, but I think the Ocean should be this concurrent storyline

[drifting aurora]

because i think gavel can be split into several distinct sections

[regal spire]

The stretch is 40-75

[drifting aurora]

no, it really isnt

[regal spire]

Back and forth between Wynn and gavel

[drifting aurora]

well ok going back and forht yes

but i mean in terms of storyline

[regal spire]

Oh, I misunderstood, mb

[hybrid gazelle]

TBH Aledar and Tasim being split up to Wynn and Gavel is really good set up for split storyline

lol

[regal spire]

I’m not sure on Wynn and Gavel being the two regions that run simultaneous stories. That kind of design feels appropriate for Corkus, or The Ocean, imo. I see what you mean, though, containing two stories to their regions, and eventually converging them. It doesn’t need to be lead by the last thing you did in Wynn, and that can be saved for converging for Fruma.

[hybrid gazelle]

my only problem with is that, it ognna feel weird for player to switch back and forth between the wto lol

but god

tbh IDK how to even fix mid game

[warm flicker]

nuke it

[regal spire]

I still think my idea is a good one

[warm flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/wynncraft-violet-knight-wynn-fruma-update-gif-12928055234226484310

[hybrid gazelle]

Also

one of my biggest gripe with the story so far

is that we introduce to the realm war stuff in ROL questline

which is like fine and all

but then the story complete detatch and look away from it until SE

[regal spire]

This is another huge gripe I have, too

[hybrid gazelle]

which is like yeah sure nothing after ROL can be related to War of the realm

it just odd to have like

[unique cedar]

Aledar cameo in Wynnex rework and Tasim cameo in ROL

[hybrid gazelle]

introduction to this big story going on

[unique cedar]

[hybrid gazelle]

and then have it absent from the story for like

god know how long???

[radiant harbor]

Yeah, between ROL and fantastic voyage we don't have anything about it

[regal spire]

Actually, I would absolutely adore this, but what if the storyline forces TCC behind orphion being freed of the parasite

[unique cedar]

Maybe it should be introduced earlier in Wynn?

but the Light stuff would be in Gavel

Weird for the main storyline to only start in Gavel

[hybrid gazelle]

Corruption should be more focus on in Wynn yeah

[heady ridge]

I wish there was a bigger corruption storyline in wynn around lvl 20-50 ngl

[hybrid gazelle]

I think ROL have the POTENTAIL

to give us big lore drop

well not us

[unique cedar]

What if

[hybrid gazelle]

but like future beginners out there

[unique cedar]

we fight ba'kal in the hypothetical wynn storyline

[hybrid gazelle]

to reveal what corruption actally is

[unique cedar]

he dips

appears in ROL like he does now

[regal spire]

That makes actual sense

[heady ridge]

Maybe even make Bak'al make a cameo in it? His appearance in ROL is kinda random for what's basically the first time we meet him

[unique cedar]

or it's a fakeout death

[radiant harbor]

Make the cows affiliated with Dern

[regal spire]

And also would justify him just separating us from Lari

He doesn’t want to risk losing to two people

[unique cedar]

I wonder how the story would've worked if SE released after Fruma

[regal spire]

Probably better

[unique cedar]

(Fruma would keep the same quality)

[regal spire]

But probably the same, tbh

[unique cedar]

Aledar would be alive

[hybrid gazelle]

Anathema be setting up Bak'al for being this big bad as if he did not appear for 2 quests in this entire game(one of them being what if)

[unique cedar]

Tasim or Aledar would've probably died in Fruma then

[hybrid gazelle]

Bak'al is so rock bottom that Anathema slandering his ass is count as glazing him somehow

[regal spire]

Ba’kal is totally gonna be a pushover, and the real bad is Rune Frum Sahur

[unique cedar]

[heady ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/re-zero-subaru-subaru-re-zero-ragebait-rage-bait-gif-17437586675169145997

[radiant harbor]

They should stop raising the quests' quality with each update and make them more consistent

[regal spire]

They were consistent, for a while

[heady ridge]

remember when a journey beyond was considered a top tier quest?

[regal spire]

Then 1.19 released a decent storyline, and it ruined everything

[radiant harbor]

It's still a cool quest cmon

[heady ridge]

oh it definitely is, one of my favs in fact

[radiant harbor]

But queen's recruit is on another level yeah

[heady ridge]

but it does feel kinda weak compared to Fruma quests

[regal spire]

AJB and AJF on release were awesome. Idk if the sequences are still broken, but they really did work back then

[heady ridge]

I really wish Elphaba had a more active role in Reclaiming the House

also lf Lucio cameo

[warm flicker]

first playthrough of AJB and AJF were incredible

[heady ridge]

1.19/1.20 era is so nostalgic to me

[warm flicker]

honestly if not for those quests i probably wouldnt have developed a crippling addiction to Olmic lore

[regal spire]

1.19 has more nostalgia for me than 1.13

[heady ridge]

1.20 trailer hype was so peak

[warm flicker]

my silent expanse is too silent and too expansive, i need more content

[regal spire]

Oh, yeah, 1.20 felt like nothing could top Wynn

[heady ridge]

housing, siegfried, orphion, large storyline, TCC

insane amount of content, probably my 2nd fav update ever

[atomic hamlet]

Is there any known canonical timekeeping system

I assume it’s just AM and PM rehashed

Or is it military time

[regal spire]

It’s both

They’ve got both clocks

[atomic hamlet]

Are terms like AM explicitly used

[heady ridge]

clocks? clock mystery...

[regal spire]

They are

[atomic hamlet]

Okay then

[regal spire]

Rurie says 9pm

[tepid blade]

Do we know how long years last in Wynncraft, days wise?

I would assume normal 365 day years

[unique cedar]

Oh when he talks about breaking into the prison right?

[regal spire]

Ye, but there are tons of other instances of analog clock’s and military being used

[regal spire]

I seriously have zero clue

I think everyone assumes as much

[slender copper]

When? o_o

[drifting aurora]

this is an impossible thing to answer

fruma storyline is shaped around SE existing as it does

[unique cedar]

I mean

SE doesn't really affect the storyline apart from Aledar's death does it?

Oh right

the Eye

[radiant harbor]

We closed the beast of darkness'eye indefinitely

[unique cedar]

Yeah Derny would've seen what we did in Fruma otherwise

methinks

[hybrid gazelle]

I mean

Aledar's death is prettymuch like

the full impact of SE story

so yes SE really affect the storyline

[formal bridge]

to give a genuine answer to it

I think Aledar and Tasim would both be characters in the story

with one joining the rebels with us and the other the queen

[signal bough]

<@&268142859327242242> RENDER THEM INTO ASH

[spring kernel]

TWO?

[unique cedar]

the lore is that good

[elfin oak]

aledar was speculated to be a rebel before he got zoinked so it'd probably be him

unless... we are aledar?

[formal bridge]

we can't possibly be aledar, tasim isn't gay for us

[cobalt remnant]

Does anybody have the coords / know what the architect shrine secret discovery is called? I want to do it.

[spring kernel]

southwest agri

up in the mountains

[cobalt remnant]

Thank you ill go look for it now

Do you know if its like really high up or closer to the ground?

nvm found it

[shut hornet]

i think this is the first time a staff member has forgotten that agri is an internal name for the roughworks that nobody outside of the ct knows

[spring kernel]

that place already has like 4 names

[slender copper]

THERE'S HOW MANY????

[regal spire]

Is it not referred to agricultural district by some of the world discoveries?

[spring kernel]

it is

[regal spire]

So agri is just a shorthand of agricultural, which is a very expected shorthand, given the community culture, and general inference

I’m pretty sure this is just something that anyone would naturally refer to it as, so why is it mentioned as staff specific in this case

[unique pumice]

I think they'll find a way to bring aledar back in some form

Since his death wasnt an ordinary death but has magical properties to it

And also clearly death isnt final in the wynncraft universe anymore

Well i guess it never was

[regal spire]

His death was the total obliteration of his soul

[shut mist]

Yeah

Two said this

[regal spire]

There’s nothing left of him

[unique pumice]

Is that said somewhere

[shut mist]

We erased him from reality

[regal spire]

Send the Two dialogue

[shut mist]

Yes

Dont have it

[unique pumice]

Ah i must not have been paying attention to that

[regal spire]

I just assumed as much, given the cutscene

[shut mist]

But its very brief

[unique pumice]

Where is the dialogue from

[shut mist]

From two in

Ouverture to despair

Very very brief

[unique pumice]

I thought if his life force was just harnessed or whatever to open the gate that there could still be a chance we see him again

[shut mist]

A shattered soul means nothing in the grand scheme of things

Smth like that

[unique pumice]

Oh shit he's the shade or whatever

Wish this mf would stop speaking in riddles but i guess thats the appeal

Or no wait he isnt the shade

But the eye is

[shut mist]

The shade is the dern beast

[spring kernel]

the shade, the dusk

yes

[radiant harbor]

We even have that tasim letter epilogue, bringing him back would be lame

[shut mist]

We cant bring him back

[brave atlas]

We could if we get rid of the beard

[radiant harbor]

what

[shut mist]

???

[unique pumice]

I guess i just dont think he was developed enough before his sacrifice for it to mean as much as it did in fruma but im pretty sure theres plans to change that anyways

[radiant harbor]

Who knows, maybe the "siege of troms" will become an actual quest

[spring kernel]

aledar and tasim will be implemented into more quests throughout the game

similarly to how they've been added to the earlygame questline

[shut mist]

Thats nice

[spring kernel]

i remember doing ahc on my first class and having no idea who the hell aledar and tasim were

[shut mist]

More story building

[regal spire]

I remember seeing Tasim and going “who tf is that”

[spring kernel]

i mean that was partly on me since i had literally just killed aledar

[regal spire]

Also, Tasim back then did not give af about Aledar lmao

[spring kernel]

but i hadn't seen tasim in months

[regal spire]

Have you seen the old Tasim dialogue, from 1.18’s tutorial? And his AHC dialogue?

[full bough]

Oh right ahc had both of them gorp

[regal spire]

They did a 180 with Tasim fr

Tasim: ...no sense screaming for the dead. But do you think I'm going to just give up like that?
Bak'al: It would be easier on yourself to.
Tasim: Hah. Didn't know corrupteds had a sense of humor, twisted as it might be.
Tasim: I won't dare die while everything here is at stake.
Tasim: How's this then, hm? Think your PEON can handle me at my strongest?

This is AHC, where Aledar cares more about Tasim than Tasim does Aledar

[full bough]

Gorp

[radiant harbor]

That's a gorp if I've ever seen one

[stuck sinew]

something something alternate world jimble jamble

[regal spire]

Who tf was in charge of the story back then lol

Why were there so many Old Man type NPC’s whose entire character is being named Old Man

[tough axle]

probably same person who made corkus story line

(slander)

[regal spire]

Yeah, Tasim and Aledar had nothing in 1.18. No character at all fr

They just showed up for the tutorial, and then you saw them leave off into the world

[radiant harbor]

They died in the ravines

[regal spire]

Tasim got super fucked, though. Poor guy had no character at all

Aledar had AJB/AJF, and even had character in AHC. Tasim got shafted bad in AHC, and still had no good dialogue for 1.19

[regal spire]

Unironically what I assumed back then. I figured they were just tutorial characters who would’ve died randomly on their own, because Wynn had no story back then

[drifting aurora]

i can justify this with modern characterization still

tasim and aledar are going into this confrontation with the knowledge and expectation that they might die. theyve said their goodbyes already

[regal spire]

I think the tone is off for Tasim, not even the reasoning. He wouldn’t behave so “Marvel”y

[drifting aurora]

true

[radiant harbor]

That's also what made a journey beyond special: NPCs returning after so many levels

[regal spire]

I like that Tasim is depicted as a grounded realest. He would go into a battle with love for his world, and wouldn’t listen to what some loser like Ba’kal has to say. He would probably be pretty silent, all things considered

[radiant harbor]

But still, aledar needs at least another quest

[full bough]

Yeah more recurring charactwrs is alwways nice

[signal bough]

maybe more occurrences of the others who went to fruma

[silk ravine]

I honestly don’t even know what he is. He shares a model with the Gendarme Casters in the raid iirc.

[regal spire]

Sun judge just runs the lighthouse fr

[unique pumice]

Don't reinvent the wheel man

[rich blaze]

?

that is what they asked us to do

[regal spire]

They didn’t ask us to bring them 3 severed heads

That’s unpredictable

[rich blaze]

still in an old quest though

player acts more reasonable in newer quest

[cinder cedar]

Must be because of their and your experience during A Point of No Return, the Ragni Soldier is finally starting to reflect

[regal spire]

Mi brata, what exactly is reasonable about the level of terrorism we’ve done in Frumie

[uneven basin]

It's not actually it's as old as all roads to peace

It's kind of a quesline now

[rich blaze]

yeah

[rich blaze]

in my defense they were kinda mean to me

[regal spire]

That is objectively the best defense we have, other than I needed to test my new build

[rich blaze]

yeah i see your point now lmao

player is unstable

[regal spire]

“Your honor, the dummy numbers were inaccurate”

[uneven basin]

To our defense it was but self defense

Red nametags yo

[regal spire]

I slimed yellow ones, too, idgaf

[rich blaze]

green better

[regal spire]

Test my dps on the Timasca Constables countless times

[shut mist]

Imagine the pov of all the roughworks npcs

[rich blaze]

in my defense that citizen was taking a 5 minute break from his 12 hour shift

[uneven basin]

THEY were the ones jumping because I'm "a cop" or "on their turf" or something

[shut mist]

True

But what about the drunk guys

They werent in a right state of mind

[uneven basin]

No an excuse for trying to kill me sorry not sorry /s

[shut mist]

Ig

What about those wandering constables tho

They were on their 12h shifts protecting the region

[unique pumice]

They represent a corrupt system

So killing them is the right thing to do

[cinder cedar]

the constables are known to be bullies since they keep picking meanies to be constables

[sterile dew]

what does this mean?

[cinder cedar]

and tbh most of the fruman guard in all levels are just looking for an excuse to enact violence or petty revenge

[unique pumice]

Is that the coming soon

Near the wastelands

[sterile dew]

ye

[uneven basin]

This is the player vs fruma in my mind (ignore the fact it's a video I couldn't find a gif)

[unique pumice]

Thats also aleumia citadel vs the player

[tepid blade]

Unstoppable force vs. immovable object

[jovial ember]

This is probably an old troll video but what is this and where is this from lol

[tepid blade]

Purple emerald

[slender copper]

Oh my goodness why did bro do to Lari 😭.

[tepid blade]

At least I think it them

[jovial ember]

Is purple emerald just a person who makes alternate version of wynncraft quests

[jovial ember]

I didnt even notice that till you noted it lol

[tepid blade]

I don’t know, but they make gifs like this as kind of joke I think, but the one you have is an older one

[jovial ember]

Oh damn i wanted this to be some sort of unreleased quest

Thanks for the help

[cedar badger]

This is making me nervous to go into Fruma lmao

I really don’t understand SE yet

like I get the concept but it’s like

4 quests

[brave atlas]

The eye is cool

[cedar badger]

It’s a cool dungeon

[unique pumice]

SE is such a cool area

[brave atlas]

Parkour

[unique pumice]

I love the olm lore

[cedar badger]

I dont know shit why the eye is imporant tho

And why do we have to sacrifice a main character to defeat it

[brave atlas]

Olm is lutho?

[cedar badger]

😭

[brave atlas]

Or soemthong else

[unique pumice]

Olm is an ancient race

[unique pumice]

Like the eye is the darkness beast's eye

In a sense

Its vision into our world

I forget if its a literal eye or not

[cinder cedar]

kinda makes you think, is the dern beats blind now?

[cedar badger]

I legit don’t see how it fits into the universe lmao

Like it’s not explained kinda

And I’m struggling to explain it myself off the gameplay I’ve had

[hasty beacon]

It watches us and thats lowkey weird

So we gotta kill it

[cedar badger]

Maybe secret discoveries will help

[unique pumice]

Yes, in the sense that it cannot see into our world anymore. Per the dialogue in overture to despair
||It seems the Shade did not take well to losing its Sight. An act of caution, blocking your access to its domain. The Light is much the same||

[cedar badger]

Shoutout santaclaus

[hasty beacon]

At least he gives us gifts

[unique pumice]

Its just another way for the darkness beast to spread its influence into our world

[cedar badger]

Do we find out why the eye is important later on?

[brave atlas]

The eye is like orphion but darkness?

[unique pumice]

No

[cedar badger]

Uhhh

Okay but when do we get informed of what it is

[unique pumice]

Well we know what it is

[cedar badger]

And why it’s important lmao

[unique pumice]

Its like a seeing eye

[cedar badger]

Aight thanks 😭

[unique pumice]

Idk how to describe it 😭

[primal anchor]

is dern a province to the south of everything or is it a realm

[brave atlas]

The all knowing brain basically

But an eue

[unique pumice]

Like its just the mechanism for which the beast (and the realm) of darkness can see into our world

No no not an all knowing brain

[cedar badger]

Like Realm of Light and Aldorei explain to us in detail what Orphion is

Is there like something that explains what the eye is

[unique pumice]

We dont know much about the darkness beast (ill spare the official names for now since you wont have encountered them anyways)

[cedar badger]

Like a quest

To discovery

[primal anchor]

do the SE ult discovery

[cedar badger]

Yeah I’ve beaten the dungeon

[cedar badger]

OH SO IT IS A SECRET DISCVOERY

thank you my goat

🙏🙏🙏

[cinder cedar]

So only blind to our realm but not in general blindness?

[unique pumice]

Oh yeah i forgot about those its been a while

It wont really tell you THAT much more than what u can already infer though

[unique pumice]

Realm like the RoL

[cedar badger]

I mean any justification why it’s important will do it for me

[unique pumice]

Okay then yeah i guess it will tell you more

[cedar badger]

I was just confused why do we do so much

To beat it

Like holy shit killing of aledar should be a big deal lmao

With the new storyline yknow

[unique pumice]

Its kinda hard to answer that because the dern beast is (presumably) so powerful that it doesnt really adhere to things like blindness

[opaque copper]

Can someone explain to me the lore behind celebrations in smoke? I did that quest fully and left dumbfounded by the ending confused

[unique pumice]

You wont find much about the eye in fruma

Just a few lines about it

In one quest

[shut mist]

Killing aledar was required to access the outlook

[opaque copper]

Like what the hell is the point i went through all that and they all just burn to crisp ???

[unique pumice]

The point is that || they were all innocent and the whole thing was staged to have somebody to burn ||

Lore implicatoins idk everybody's corrupt

[opaque copper]

Damn thats one messed up festival

[cedar badger]

I know, it’s just never explain why accessing it is important

[shut mist]

Well ...

Kinda ...

The darkness has something tiping its scales

[opaque copper]

So either 1 burn or all 3 burn huh?

[shut mist]

And we gotta tip the scales

Conveniently thats also the parasites theme name

[opaque copper]

fruma somehow is worse than wynn like damn with all the brainwash/murder/corruption and stuffs

[unique pumice]

Well fruma is a totalitarian government

Wynn is not

[opaque copper]

Fair

[unique pumice]

Becuase u dont want the realm of darkness to take over the wynn province so u need to reduce its influence as much as you can

[shut mist]

Ill be honest ..
Murder is everywhere

Wynn fruma gavel

[opaque copper]

I wonder if wynnexcavation falls into that category?

[unique pumice]

Gavel iron golems are also just as irreprehensible

[cinder cedar]

pretty sure they a cult

[cedar badger]

I would refrain from talking about that quest line ngl

Let’s leave it

[primal anchor]

then whats the scrambled letters

[unique pumice]

Wynnex is just like the elites or something idk

[cedar badger]

Alone

[unique pumice]

We dont know

[opaque copper]

sounds like something a wynnexcavationist would say i jest

But aight

[cedar badger]

No it’s just

It was

Wait

WynnExcavation is a 2015 quest

Desperate for a rework lmao

[shut mist]

Yeah ...

[cedar badger]

Will not die on that hill but it’s old

I think I discussed this with someone here

It leads to nothing

It’s completely disconnected

[shut mist]

There is like

2 discoverys

Talking about it

In 1 gavel

[opaque copper]

Point proven

[shut mist]

1 in se

[cedar badger]

It throws a Hail Mary attempt to tie into Olm lore

[opaque copper]

Theres not much connection to it

[cedar badger]

And the other important thing I guess is just

Showcasing corruption

[cinder cedar]

doesn't Excavation tie to ???, I haven't been able to done that yet

[cedar badger]

But like “we are stronger then governments, we have kings on a payroll, we will gain UNLIMITED POWER” and we just burn the crystals and get a neckless 😭😭😭

[shut mist]

Long story short is unstopable force using cosmic crystals to get unimaginable power gets defeated by a random guy who doesent care

[cinder cedar]

because the crystals are from the meteors?

[opaque copper]

Blah blah blah infinite power blah blah blah

[cedar badger]

yeah see

don’t worry about WynnExcavation

It’s not worth it

Trust me

Nothing to see there

Nothing suspicious going on

[opaque copper]

You're right

Nothing out of ordinary

[cedar badger]

Glad you agree

We all should stop looking into it

[opaque copper]

Perhaps

[cedar badger]

Okay so back to the eye, summing it up

Its darkness operative, we need to tip the scales in the realms war

And this will be made clear in the secret discovery

[shut mist]

Yeah

Cuz

Light is getting its ass beat

[cedar badger]

Or is it just not made clear in anything and we just know that from context clues

[cedar badger]

Yeye

[cinder cedar]

I'm just a small disappointed that there isn't much to do in SE but I guess that is the point since it's a hostile wasteland

[unique pumice]

A lot of it is just piecing stuff together

[shut mist]

Keep in mind the portal is closed

We will come back

To find a way to open it

[cinder cedar]

I just wanna chuck a pipebomb in there or a flashbang

[unique pumice]

SE is also just a small area you can only make it so dense after having a lootrun a raid a dungeon and all those world events

Where else would you put stuff

[cinder cedar]

the space they have and how they used it is very nice

same with fruma

[shut mist]

Trowing a bomb in a closed portal ? Might as well land right on top of you

[cedar badger]

Guys what if we just brought guns to Wynncraft

And kill everyone

[shut mist]

We already have some

[cinder cedar]

we have canons and railguns

[shut mist]

Its called sharpshooter+ cosmetics

[dim plover]

Has anyone here not done Ensemble of Hope yet but is about to do it soon

[slender copper]

Interesting to how pre-fruma quests have the player as a mindless soldier who's incredibly silent, doesn't question their tasks, and the solution always needs something to be killed (causing the player character to not flinch at death).

Meanwhile, post-fruma, it shows the player... having morals alike to normal people. They can hold themselves back from fighting, and the player character has had many interactions with their group and other npcs.

I'm sure that the writers will rather make a good transition between mindlessness to more extroverted. Or keep the other when a new update rolls around.

[exotic bough]

Silent Expanse

[warm adder]

What if it was fruma

Se would be more fitting thouhg

[primal anchor]

nope part of wynn

fruma too sort of

[exotic bough]

See the amount of letters

Also that’s where the dern portal is

[primal anchor]

sure if you count the space it works

why would that name be obscured though

this cutscene released after SE

just level progression?

[twilit lake]

In lore SE isn't really known about at that point though, right?

[digital swan]

I mean I hope this logic gets added because like

for stuff released after Fruma should give more info on Fruma at lower levels

[primal anchor]

they already retconned recover the past for fruma

[tepid blade]

no?

[primal anchor]

what more is needed? i agree itd be nice but the devil is in the details

[tepid blade]

Recover the Past isn't retconned

[primal anchor]

There is no war within the fruman walls

[tepid blade]

But we already knew that?

Recover the Past didn't show any war in Fruma

[primal anchor]

-_-

[split night]

when in recover the past shown war in fruma??

[primal anchor]

recover the past showed brainwashing tasim to believe this and we would therefore think the opposite is true

[split night]

that's a deduction from a data
a conclusion you came up with

not the objective truth then

[tepid blade]

No it doesn't show that, it says "You will fight in their war"

in refrence the war in Wynn

[split night]

or that, you fight in their war just mean that we are gonna fight the war in Wynn

xd

[brave atlas]

Do you think light and dark will kill us? Or not care about us until we become a problem like the queen

[tepid blade]

Y E S

[split night]

Anathema did said that they overlooked us, but in any case they would kill us whether or not they find out our true nature

[tepid blade]

they will kill us eventually, because we will become a problem where we are seen as one or not

at least try to kill us 🙂

[split night]

we're just an abnormal beast 😭

literally an unkillable pest

[slender copper]

I mean, ||Two|| said themselves that ||Sapharis|| is very mad at us from the eye incident. So that's already one beast wanting us dead.

Orphion will likely follow with ||Anathema|| saying that both need to be purged... ||since they will immediately start trying to claim Wynn with her not there anymore.||

[dim plover]

The size of DB’s eye when it was pulled out (along with the claws) leads one to assume that they’re much bigger than Orphion, at least in their “common” forms

Is it because their size represents their current power in the War of the Realms or why is DB so much bigger lol

[brave atlas]

Thank you

[restive yacht]

does the second door in the queen's palace ever open in normal gameplay as of now?

[restive yacht]

imagine a massive sync world event

light and dark war everywhere, it would be chaos

ARG

[primal anchor]

when this quest first released in 2020 this is what it said and its a meme

[restive yacht]

lol fruma has no enemies

[primal anchor]

its an avatar reference and it predates the ct actually writing any real fruma content for sure

and for that reason they ended up having to change the lore in the quest

[winged narwhal]

I think a DB sized Orphion form and an Orphion sized Saphanis form would be fun to have

[restive yacht]

Spreading Alternate path hopecore!

[slim belfry]

eh

feel like no matter what you'll end up opposing given everything that happened

[dawn moon]

idk i think there was a bit more than war in the fruman walls

[dim plover]

Anyone here hasn’t done Ensemble of Hope yet
I need Flashback/ Replay Mod footage of the meeting room cutscene

[quiet flare]

There is no war in ba sing se

[sinful vine]

why cant I gain exp in bat cave easily as paladin

or well i do but its very slow

and its almost always with a large party

[winged narwhal]

I mean, an outcome where you don’t unlock the raid seems unlikely

[restive yacht]

It doesn't need to be that way

[winged narwhal]

Huh?

[restive yacht]

Idk * something something * A hunter's Calling alternate path kind of thing in a future quest

Tbf we also already explored time fractures

Lore in the trinket shows you the world where u haven't defeated Anathema yet

[slim belfry]

CT person said they like to think of the trinket being a shard from one of two's mirrors

but not confirmed to be the case it's a neat thought

[hybrid gazelle]

Frightful fragment is not showing you the world where you did not defeat anathema

It just show you the past

It literall written in description

[shut mist]

it also shows you horrors that have yet to come

whatever that means

ig it must show the fact im dying to a random gendarme guard

in the next like 5m

[dim plover]

Does Two appear anywhere outside of quests

[shut mist]

no

[dim plover]

rip

I should have kept my recordings

Has anyone here not done quests with Two in it yet

[main dust]

Who wrote most of the world development with Fruma? There's some incredibly good layers of Classism with imposed Monarchy that enforces a state of culture where a rebellion or uprising is outright denied in a customized fashion depending on the district a rebellion is taking place in.

Auburn Forest is so minimal that the sort of rebellion's they can do are unimportant to the grand scheme of the nation because what are they going to do, steal food, water?
Roughworks is in a perpetual state of never making real progress because the safety bubble they made was far more important than continuing a real fight for the sake of the future children that will be born there

Mistwood's lives in a perpetual state of Aldwell's citizens trying to kill a species that are stolen from their source location just to specifically be bred as spies that themselves get forced into 24 hour regime's and their lives only exist to be eventually burnt at a Wickerman Festival - The Canopy doesn't have any real power over Fruma, they do Climate Activism at best and are so focused on The Mistwood's Changeling Spy population (Those same spies that don't actually know anything about Fruma, they're made to essentially enforce the fact The Mistwoods will never be able to 'truly' take down the crown, Gikyo themself knows this information very directly and instead of trying to fight against it doubled down on the fact because they knew just how pointless it is to fight against the crown, even for the sake of their own people

I have only just now reached the Gikyo boss fight, haven't finished it but the Highlands have a major implication through my own reading of the place and it's music track names that it's essentially a small village that stands against the grandioseness of the Capital, that meaning anyone born there has no idea of anything other than how beautiful the nation is that they get to live right next door to, they couldn't possibly fight for something because they aren't given the education to find out.
Numerous readings throughout the quests up to where I'm at have told me that Highlander's have no idea the Roughworks is even an industrial factory at this point, thinking it was still farmlands before Soosu's technology boom - the Auburn Forest is treated like a tourist visiting area which enforces the culture that the Highlander's are made to think the nation truly is as ideal as it can possibly be whilst all the other districts have a powerless crusade to attempt to dethrown Her Majesty.

The Auburn Forester's have the benefit of having their consequences be so minimal that they're the most willing to fight the Monarch, shown in the Roughworks mainline where some of the gang decide to save the woman being kicked out without waiting for the guards to leave, something the Steel Feather was not willing to do ever which would have meant a status quo that never shifted.

And I've got grander thoughts on it, especially because The Mistwoods became my favourite area because it's world development is incredibly strong if you're coming in with a view of understanding the ways in which rebellion and classism as well as the Mistwood's specialized species racism exists in a way that despite it having not much time for Gikyo it has enough to tell their entire story.
I don't think there's a better showing of just how much power the Queen has and how many strings she has (to my knowledge) the skills to pull.

Soverign Selium wanted to push for more with the Changeling's and was found dead and Gikyo was hardly helping with information through the Changeling Fortress diaries just a few years later, how? Why?
I'm basing this off my understanding of the world that Selium was pushing their luck just too much with curiosity, the Changeling system exists on purpose, they're bred to be spies that eventually die because they don't actually matter to anyone, at all, not even the crown cares.

Celebrations in Smoke showcased just how much the culture of Aldwell is built upon keeping up the culture of systemically wiping out the Changeling species because you don't get to save all of the people, you saying that nobody did the crime of burning the Wickerman doesn't mean you get a good ending because it was never actually your choice, the player never was the person deciding it, it was the festival head and the whole village would have still decided the same thing because they want to have ANYONE in the Wickerman, it doesn't matter if they're human or not it matters that the kids see what you're supposed to do when you see someone that's suspicious by even a little.
I really liked the quest because of it, it was willing to tell me that nobody was the real source and no one was evil or vile but that the fact I knew that, and the festival head agreed knowing that and it still told me 'This isn't the world it should be, it doesn't care that you're morally right, it ares that someone has to be burnt'.

And Gikyo, despite all the power they posess just like how I'm seeing Tasim act, still chose the Crown.
Still chose to continue the endless dying of Changeling's and the endless fight The Canopy won't actually win and that's incredibly, incredibly fucked up.

Gikyo is my favourite soverign, I think they had a perfect amount of time because holy shit the impact htey have on the mistwoods however behind the shadows has stopped the chances of a rebellion ever.
The Canopy is infiltrated by Gikyo for probably who knows how long and it's their way of stopping any actual problems, The Canopy isn't the issue, it's people that meet The Canopy like us, the player, they're there to stop the real threats.

I'm still stuck on the boss fight for Gikyo so I'm sure shit will change but the fact Fruma steals them out of the Wastelands just so they get imported into The Mistwoods for indoctrination as spies is completely fucking out of pocket wild - and again, they will just end up dead anyways because they were just a smidge too bad at being a spy.

[calm kelp]

shakespeare still alive?

[main dust]

I've had a lot on my mind :P
I've got more but I didn't want to be wild, sorry.
Fruma just has some incredibly thought points with how it's designed and it's the sort of world development I specifically give like, several hundred fucks about, it's really good.

Also of note is the fact we kill a rookie Changeling as a mini-boss during the fortress exploration, did they think we were just... training with them? They're straight up dead now.

[slim belfry]

it gets better if you did the mistwoods secret discoveries

[astral void]

I'm saving this. This is really good to read.

[dim plover]

@main dust Sorry for the slight derailment (I'm in the middle of reading your stuff I haven't finished yet) but if you get to Ensemble of Hope would you be able to get a Flashback or Replay Mod recording of it

I need some reference footage of a specific cutscene in that quest for the thing I'm working on and I'm waiting for Tasim's alt route to be added into the game before I actually enter Fruma myself

[main dust]

You'd have to guide me around but I'll hit you up again once I do.

[dim plover]

Alright, thanks

[main dust]

I did! They were all great.
I'm still learning the Aldwell library stuff, functions of the tribes and such but Gikyo was just such a fascinating Soveriegn to me despite the pattern I'm seeing in the server that they (and the Mistwoods which I also disagree with) didn't get enough time.

I for one think they didn't need more screentime, the best parts of Gikyo are the reasons why they are the way they are - the screentime is just a dessert of seeing them after what the nation taught them about having a power to save their own kind.

[hybrid gazelle]

Changelign are written good enough thst I did not care about wynncraft sapient roster being over bloated lol

Changeling being sapient is dubious at best but like some of them proven to be capable of actual human intellect without just mimicry

[main dust]

Anyone can be a person if they actually have a culture to grow with - Changeling's have as smart brains as anyone else it's just whoudathought they were collected by Fruma's military instead of meeting real genuine people to be friends with.

Note the Changeling in General's Orders who clearly has been trying hard to learn how to... be normal?
It's not a passable job but it's the best they have because clearly they only have viewed other people talk but haven't had someone to actually talk with.

They're just not given the chance to be a society anymore, or at all, they're plucked from formation at the drill site in Wastelands.

[midnight bison]

Anyways, what's everyone's favourite sovereign

[slim belfry]

it's hard for me to choose now

genuine difficulty because of how well everyone is written

[hybrid gazelle]

I think they all have capacity to be sapient, it jsut require training and stuff thst they would not have if they stay in their

tar pit or whatever

It going to take long time training it seems because only Azeal and Gikyo who we know are the original possesses these

[vestal rivet]

Zhiraok

I think Zhiraok is the most competent, dependable, and actually caring of the Sovereigns

[split night]

I love soosu

[unique pumice]

Big Two fan

Not sure whats up with them

[vestal rivet]

none of the others actually care about the people they are charged with
we see Majin ignoring the Highlands except for a few publicity moves
we see Soosu neglecting the Roughworks entirely
Gikyo is a monster to his own kind even, and not exactly much better to those in the Mistwoods
Two doesn't even have a district, nor did Tasim
Those who came before Zhiraok in Auburn evidently didn't care much about the people themselves either
on and Oru just kinda exists for now

[unique pumice]

Two's just a chiller fr

Doing they own thing

[split night]

she's just smart and mysterious

[vestal rivet]

Zhiraok was the single one to actually stand up and do something when the people he was charged with were threatened or suffering

[split night]

and goth

[slim belfry]

Oru is dedicated to his job based on his absence

[vestal rivet]

Zhiraok for new Fruma leader 1002AP!

[slim belfry]

I like to think that even after the queen is gone he'd keep on overseeing the prison

[split night]

Zhiroak definitely gonna work with the resistence for a more secure Fruma from then on

[rain saffron]

Soosu..

[dim plover]

Doesn't Zhiraok still kinda hate us

For like killing a bunch of people

[vestal rivet]

he's needed as a figurehead at the very least
he's the only remaining Sovereign that garners any respect at all
the fact he almost ran himself to literal death for his people should help too

[vestal rivet]

99% he does

[dim plover]

And I guess Sui to an extent because she also Noelle'd a bunch of the guards

[vestal rivet]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1377807036053459126/1484012054749905018/wynncraft_prophecy.gif

[split night]

Zhiroak won't work with us but would work with the rest of the resistence i would say

[tepid blade]

I definitely think he will not like us, but he will tolerate us for at least saving him

[split night]

SNOWGRAVE

[restive yacht]

Sui will proceed

[vestal rivet]

he would work with us out of necessity
he's rational almost to a fault

[tepid blade]

and killing the queen

[dim plover]

The player's moral compass is spinning at ten billion revolutions a second and I love it

We're just chaos incarnate when it comes to what we do

[split night]

chaotic good

[dim plover]

More like chaotic neutral

[slim belfry]

chaos incarnate you say?

[dim plover]

I feel like if the questbook tells us to slaughter the entire resistance in their sleep we would 100% do it with no hesitation

Like, anything for that 5 LE reward

[vestal rivet]

so many silent protags are jush either chaotic good or chaotic neutral
meanwhile I'm here somewhere between lawful good and lawful neutral

[restive yacht]

Do u think the queen gets a funeral?

[tepid blade]

Chaotic good or Lawful neutral is what I would say my OC is personally, although they don't see themselves as a good person

[tepid blade]

no

[split night]

i'd do it for her

[restive yacht]

Very big plot hole imo

[dim plover]

Wartorn Palace Raid ending if it was good

[vestal rivet]

99% some people in Fruma will demand that, and carry it out themselves if the demand isn't met
some simply worshiped the Queen even after all she put them through

[dim plover]

(I need to make more funny dialogue I just don't have any ideas atm)

[vestal rivet]

Gale and Zhiraok reunion (Gale's departure is what made Zhiraok's house scorned)

[restive yacht]

Hopefully this gets mentioned at some point.

It would really suck if they forgot about such details

[dim plover]

Agreed
I'm sure some of them are into moths

[unique pumice]

gale is my favorite character i would love more lore for her

[restive yacht]

Also pls put Syndria grave where it belongs like, it's obvious now

[vestal rivet]

well
reunion is the wrong term
more like awkward meeting

[tepid blade]

True, we need a Syndria grave

[dim plover]

I'm still baffled that the second Sovereign is actually called Two

[vestal rivet]

"so you're one of my distant cousins from several generations ago, and something you did when you were like 16 is the reason my life sucks as much as it does"

[unique pumice]

Well its almost definitely a code name

[restive yacht]

We need a grave for every single guard we kill ngl, i'd make a business out of it

[unique pumice]

You could call her spymaster too

I think it just contributes to the mystery behind the character

[slim belfry]

that one image you made

[vestal rivet]

she says we can call her Two
not that her name is Two

[unique pumice]

Or maybe her longetivty to the point her true name is lost

[dim plover]

The Queen and the Sovereigns calling her Two as if it's natural naturally implies that either Two is her actual name or that she is so secretive that not even the Sovereigns know her

[tepid blade]

Well, we don't have her actual name, and she also wants us to call her Two

[unique pumice]

Do we even know two's species

[dim plover]

She's a two

[slim belfry]

the two species

[tepid blade]

No, I personally presume human, or at least human adjacent

[dim plover]

(She is actually the second ever species to ever exist. She comes second in everything)

[vestal rivet]

pre-queen era human
probably this long lived due to either some ancient now-lost magic art or a blessing

either her or the queen mentions that she was already around when the queen showed up iirc

[dim plover]

Two has mirror powers which implies that Two's origin is actually Sky Islands Mirror Cave

[tepid blade]

Likely blessing or the Wellspring of Eternity

[vestal rivet]

what's the deal with that place anyways
no quest took me to it ever, nor did any secret discoveries

[dim plover]

They also removed the Man in the Mirror a few updates ago
Coincidence?????????

[unique pumice]

Probably just not developed yet

There is a world discovery there though

[dim plover]

(Disclaimer I don't actually know if they did I just didn't see him spawn in again went I visited the cave a week back)

[vestal rivet]

they has to rename Rex too

Rex, the 1km Under NPC

[tepid blade]

We don't know, but all we know is that is super heavily guarded and only the queen and her sovereigns can enter it

[vestal rivet]

who was also a lady you talked to

[unique pumice]

Might just be because of the allegations

[tepid blade]

You could have two characters with the same name

[vestal rivet]

or a character and a town could also share a name

[tepid blade]

so you don't have to rename them, particularly because one isn't important to the main story

[vestal rivet]

(Samsam said that Rex the 1km Under NPC would be renamed when asked about it, that's where I'm getting this from)

[tepid blade]

oh

[unique pumice]

Its weirder for no two characters to share a name in an entire world tbh

[vestal rivet]

it's because Rex (the Fruma character) is very important story-wise so just having another woman named Rex showing up and even being killed off in a one-off quest like 1km Under could be confusing

[tepid blade]

What is this again?

I know where it is from, but not its name

[slim belfry]

lurking anathema

[tepid blade]

ah

[drifting aurora]

why

[vestal rivet]

oh dang
either this was teased wayyyyy in advance or this is another Rex situation lol

[slim belfry]

rex situation

there's a funnier image for this

[vestal rivet]

spider man?

[slim belfry]

no I meant with the name

[vestal rivet]

Rex from Star Wars?

Rex from Toy Story?

[dim plover]

Maybe baffled is the wrong word but it felt almost goofy after wondering for quite awhile on what she will end up being called

Ok goofy is the wrong word as well

Whatever energy "really? that?" exudes

[drifting aurora]

you may call me two

[dim plover]

really? that?

[drifting aurora]

the lack of proper name is indeed the point

[slim belfry]

hmmmmmmmm

maybe she doesn't have an "actual name"

[dim plover]

She certainly is an anomaly

some kind of-

[vestal rivet]

she 100% has a name, she just doesn't want to give it out for some reason or another
Her Majesty prob knows it, maybe Bak'al or someone as well, but nobody else who's still alive

[slim belfry]

tangentially related dark scion proof

[dim plover]

I mean she's purple

She wears a black and purple hooded outfit and uses powerful magic

The only conclusion I came come to is that Two is actually me

[slim belfry]

would not be surprising

[vestal rivet]

if I throw the purple changeling goo on you, do you gain shadowmancy powers
and if you test this and it works can we test it with the whitish goo from the purified-to-death grootslang from RoL next

[unique pumice]

Do names have any power in wynncraft

[fathom plover]

Greg

[slender copper]

Man it's between Zhiroak and Soosu (I also love their dynamic so in my mind they belong in the same first place lol)

[vestal rivet]

not to our knowledge
wynn doesn't really have fae in the traditional horrifying sense
gavel faeries are helpful and elves are more the tolkien kind than a fae-adjacent kind

[celest falcon]

Two

[vestal rivet]

poor Gikyo and Majin
only seen Gikyo chosen once, and Majin wasn't selected at all
ah well
Majin can go die in a corner, again

[primal anchor]

two is a dernic spy

i will field no questions

[split night]

who happen to realized that anathema is the better deal and betrayed saphanis

[vestal rivet]

me when Her Majesty once had a crush one Two, but was never reciprocated and eventually gave up (Anathema post-raid dialogue)

[split night]

what is this ship, this is amazing

[drifting aurora]

thats one way to interpret it for sure

[vestal rivet]

and Bak'al is her ex in a way too lol

[vestal rivet]

I feel like it's rather direct even if a brief mention?

[tepid blade]

I actually thought of that as a possibility too when reading the dialogue LOL, but personal belive it is more of an uncaring daughter relationship between the two

[vestal rivet]

you could be right

[slender copper]

I would say that Gikyo is like a second favorite lol, I love all of their music and how he is written is really good!

[drifting aurora]

more than 1 type of love. for the record i do think its a valid interpretation, just not the only one

[unique pumice]

Sounds a lot like mine tbh

[main dust]

Thank you.

[split night]

so it's canon that they have a relation ship

[slim belfry]

I mean

it's at the very least close love

[unique pumice]

a relationship yes not necessarily a romantic one

[split night]

yeah? any relationship is a ship no less

[drifting aurora]

it's i think the only place anathema ever uses the word love. which is important

[vestal rivet]

Two does effectively backstab the Queen, and yet the Queen still just sorta rubs it off

that means a lot if you ask me

[restive yacht]

PIN TS

We taking NOTES

War + Love wynn-ship is real

[split night]

old woman yuri

[tepid blade]

Yeah, I don't think it is romantic between Anathema and Two, but it definitely think there is at least some kind of familial bond that Anathema with Two

[main dust]

Just last remarks I forgot to send because I was in a Deadlock match :P
I'm excited to get to see the Wastelands and the Tar Pit's changes given it's now apparently just spouting out unusable for Fruma changeling messes that aren't trainable in the slightest - that's what you get for digging into life essence pits without thinking.

Also just a side-interesting thing, The Auburn Forest is super interesting culture-wise, they're unable to have the riches and spoils of the Highlands but live a pseudo-idyllic life in the way I imagine Highlander's do, it's idyllic and a tourist visit for Highlander's and they even have 'spooky stories' about the Frog in the Bog because they're such a (if this wasn't a districted nation) 'rural' part of the whole nation's culture that the most interesting thing you're raised as a story is that there's a scary door with a scary creature in there that talks
Also the Bog seemingly only exists because a giant tree is half-dead and was the only roots giving any form of energy to the north-western section of the forest?

I don't actually remember much about Auburn, as much as I want to because I locked into the writing when I realized how exceptional the world building was starting Roughworks where I got to actually glimpse the nation's tireless endless worker culture in Roughworks.
Made Mistwoods that much stronger compared to it because Roughwork's and Soosu's story are tales of regrets and an enforced sped up industrialization of otherwise farmland which singlehandedly meant their lives where taken from them from birth as well - Mistwoods is just more interesting but I resonate the most with Roughworks just because I've been around

[split night]

I think Two is at least 1000 years old if she's Olmic and a Dark's scion

[tepid blade]

You changed your title LOL

[vestal rivet]

now I'm confused as to why healthy straight ships are so rare yet again
it's always a pre-existing couple lol, with 99% of them being the parents of another character

[split night]

yes

[calm kelp]

people looooooove yaoi

[split night]

oh hey check out this cool redesign of swap lari

[drifting aurora]

in a world where straight is a minority . . .

[restive yacht]

Straight is boring ig

[tepid blade]

Cool

[restive yacht]

They always need to tighten some knots

[vestal rivet]

in this world, the birthrate is either lower than South Korea's or they have some magic way of reproducing lol

[calm kelp]

not straight ships rely on the shock factor of "woah its no straight" to actually be viable

[split night]

I think at least a lot of them is straight and healthy
it's just that they are boring enough that we brush them off

xd

[vestal rivet]

just in general
most of the relationships that get a spotlight aren't straight unless it's a pre-existing couple, usually the parents of another character

[calm kelp]

straight ships are only not boring if its highly debated