📚lore_discussion

[formal bridge]

yeah the sovereigns were written very well

[hybrid gazelle]

DUDE IMAGINE LOOTRUN OPENNING ANIMATION AND THEN ENTIRE ASS ZHIRAOK MODEL EMERGE FROM THE CHEST

[bold geode]

he’s faster every time so by EO he just yoinks you at light speed and drags you in front of tasim with your hands still bloody, grasping a dernic knife

[hybrid gazelle]

LIKE HE A PICKABLE ITEM

[formal bridge]

The leaves funnily enough didn't get enough time for each of them to develop despite being a 13 part questline

but the soveriegns got good time to shine thanks to the four act structure

[rotund gust]

minigame updates with fruma character would go so hard

Banish the Beyond
The Faceless: play as gikyo and transform into survivors
The Isolated: play as two and teleport around with portals

Blizzard Brawl:
Majin as a new DPS. Sui as a new supports. Syndra and Zhiraok as new tanks

Claim to Herosim:
New Hero? Tasim or Sui maybe… we don’t really seem to have many folk hero’s for fruma but someone new would be cool.

Battle for Bonfire:
that idk about this one it doesn’t really use characters

[bold geode]

Trashie has me blocked because I hated on lari too much lmaooo 😭

[quartz mist]

oh pfff

but wait

[unique hill]

agreed

[winged narwhal]

what rarity is he

[bold geode]

The “villain” sovereigns are so wonderfully hateable

[bold geode]

mythic, to trick you into thinking you got an awesome reward before crushing your hopes

[hybrid gazelle]

Nasin Tier

[drifting aurora]

i like gikyo

[quartz mist]

zhiraok and queen chasing you and the leaves through auburn and you manage to lose em, get to the roughworks, they're right there
syndra: "How did you manage to get here before us?!"
queen: "I- ...how did we, Zhiraok?"
zhiraok: https://youtu.be/bseN1uf9zPY

[hybrid gazelle]

okay but fr on topic of taht

we know that the queen has her private train

how tall is the goddam train

that lady is like 4 block talls

[bold geode]

big train lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

Majesty-mobile

[bold geode]

They’re just fucking deranged (it’s very fun)

[hybrid gazelle]

okay btw I cant gush over how character like Majin that the writers could easily make him just surface level asshole

[formal bridge]

they lower her in on a crane into the top

[hybrid gazelle]

is so well done when you look through his history

like his family bckground

[rotund gust]

each of them feels very necessary. gikyo is a bit disconnected from the rest so maybe not them, but even then mistwoods just wouldn’t be the same without them being crazy and killing mora and setting the evil sui arc in full swing

[quartz mist]

it's like the Laytonmobile, it's just a normal car except it has an extended roof to account for his top hat, or in this case the Queen's height

[hybrid gazelle]

and everything that he done

[drifting aurora]

i think majin should explode and die

[bold geode]

Also we got Sui pulling a “watch what happens when I cast a spell I don’t know” except I like to believe she does know

[hybrid gazelle]

this is true

[quartz mist]

anyway, imagining zhiraok traveling economy on the train and having to deal with the fact he's pressing up against some poor citizen in the window seat next to him

now here's the question

[rotund gust]

this is my new headcanon voice for zhiraok

[quartz mist]

is that citizen upset or excited

[drifting aurora]

evil sui arc is crazy

[rotund gust]

evil is the wrong word

unstable

[hybrid gazelle]

oh my god

[formal bridge]

gikyo works as the token evil one

[rotund gust]

unstable sui arc

[drifting aurora]

i really like sui's arc in general

[quartz mist]

https://tenor.com/view/kronk-its-all-coming-together-gif-15058130

It's all summing together

[hybrid gazelle]

the idea of Majin in Blizzard Brawl is so funny

cause like

who the fuck invite this guy

[drifting aurora]

Tom

[bold geode]

Snowballs? Would you like meteors instead

[hybrid gazelle]

"Tom, is not that guy stalk 16 years old in his uni year?"
"What"

[rotund gust]

yeah also majin i think would work best as a pure dps out of the other fruma characters. Maybe syndra too but even then i feel like she would fit a tank role

[hybrid gazelle]

I feel like Soosu would be cool in BB

I think she deserve some whimsy

I think Majin can go burn in hell

BRO NOT SEEING HEAVEN'S GATE

[rotund gust]

and as it stands (if the wiki is correct) there’s only 2 tanks vs. 3 dps and 3 supports, so if the update would theoritically equalize it to 4-4-4, syndra would need to be tank

[bold geode]

Is there some kind of summoner archetype in bb yet? If not she could have that role I suppose

tf 2 engi but golems

[rotund gust]

unless you do sui dps, two as support, then zhiraok and syndra as the new tanks

[hybrid gazelle]

I wonder if Theorick and Sui would be able to be buddy or not

or Theorick just too cold

"Look girl, I know you have issue but like I got work to do so

get out of my way"

[drifting aurora]

i dont think sui and theorick are very similar personality-wise

[rotund gust]

but then that means two is either in both fruma BtB and BB, or Gikyo is just the sole new addition, since doubling up feels lazy

or

[bold geode]

Cold

[quartz mist]

zhiraok leaving fruma for any of the festivals after apoth

Player: "If you're here, who's in charge of Fruma?"
Zhiraok: "Well..."

smash cut to Xao sitting at the desk with the biggest grin on his face

Xao: "This is the best day of my life."

[rotund gust]

majin gets put in banish the beyond alongside gikyo

lmfao

[formal bridge]

Theorick is another power hungry douche sui would crash out upon

[hybrid gazelle]

they 100% do not but I like the idea of them interacting due to their power

KILL FROSTBITE

THAT QUEST SLANDER THEORICK

[drifting aurora]

i hate frost bite

[hybrid gazelle]

Theorick is not power hungry, he just want a job

[rotund gust]

banish the beyond adds survivor characters (one guaranteed perk for your character + the random perks) and majin is a survivor so you can kill him

ong just delete frostbite

it slanders my goat

[hybrid gazelle]

Zhiraok and Gale family meeting would be so fucking awkward I wanna see

[quartz mist]

I don't think they would get along personality-wise but I think they would work together in battle well and Theorick would respect Sui's abilities greatly, since he values people Doing Things and Sui would have proven herself well-capable, and I also think Sui would, even if just at first, respect Theorick due to the whole "Don't worry, you're just like the Twains. It's natural to be like this, nothing to be scared of"

pep talk that the player gives her

like. they would mutually set aside their differences to Get Shit Done together

[bold geode]

Majin I think would feel better as a spirit, still being megalomaniacal and spamming space magic beyond the grave

[rotund gust]

or

consider

[bold geode]

tormenting others as in life he did

[rotund gust]

majin as claim to heroism new hero

lmfao

[bold geode]

TRUE

[rotund gust]

siegfried is a fake hero but gets up there

so

[hybrid gazelle]

They will let ANYONE be a hero

[rotund gust]

majin could too

[drifting aurora]

thats fucked up

Although

[hybrid gazelle]

Majin pay his way up to be featured

[bold geode]

although it would be VERY FUNNY

[drifting aurora]

bak'al was in my original roster of 6 hero ideas

so maybe not out of the question

[bold geode]

that is also peak

[rotund gust]

syndra would slot in nicely as a new hero though

[drifting aurora]

mmh

[hybrid gazelle]

the idea of you ascending to heroism to become Bak'al is too fucking funny

[drifting aurora]

i kind of hate designing CtH heroes

[quartz mist]

since Bakal is referenced in the festival a few times, like in the plushie sold of him which is stated as minimizing his impact on the province and letting people take out their anger, itd track to have bakal as a "hero" due to everyone ganging up on the hero who gets to ascend

[hybrid gazelle]

"Kids! Who is your hero?"
"HITLER!"

[drifting aurora]

that is true actually

[rotund gust]

out of the 3 minigames that feature characters CtH does feel the least interesting. Siegfrieds is funny the other two just kinda whatever

[bold geode]

Bak’al as a hero but another player can ascend as Lari to contest him, trust

[hybrid gazelle]

I wish Bak'al have more presence in canon wynn

please early game remake

mention Bak'al more PLEASEEE

[formal bridge]

corruption in wynn in general needs to be worked more into the quests

[quartz mist]

like yeah you get to play the villain for a bit and everyone either gets catharsis from beating the tar out of you in that round or else you get to knock down some castles and go "RAAAH I AM EVIL BAKAL I EAT POOP AND HAVE A SMELLY FACE RAAAGH" and then giggle like a schoolgirl afterwards

[formal bridge]

Compared to decay and SE it has so much less presence

[hybrid gazelle]

ngl now I imagine in the festival

there is a puppet show with puppet bak'al lol

[formal bridge]

somehow makes him look less pathetic than he actually is

[quartz mist]

and a convenient crate of rotten tomatoes next to the stage

[bold geode]

and let me guess at the end of the puppet show

[rotund gust]

gikyo in BtB would be so much fun though.

like garavans invisibility but even worse, since they transform into a survivor, and while transformed can willingly charge beacons to fool people

[bold geode]

That’s horrifying

[rotund gust]

that’s the only one i’m confident in for a festival minigame placement

they just wouldn’t work as well in blizzard or hero’s

[limber swan]

I hate Frostbite and the nessak secret discos in general ngl cause they all show him as a power hungry corrupt dude meanwhile fate of the fallen and AHC just show him as a guy who is realistic about things

[bold geode]

I’m sure Gikyo’s some twisted individual’s hero 🥰

[quartz mist]

I don't think the discoveries paint him in too poor of a light outside of maybe the random pottery one

[limber swan]

the one with him and marius talking to each other tho

[rotund gust]

the other discoveries just paint as having anger issues

[quartz mist]

like, when he's confronting marius over being ridiclously cryptic and obscure and high-and-mighty over him just asking for Some Fucking Pay for his work- and at the funeral, tempers are really high

because it's a freaking funeral, and everyone's upset

[hybrid gazelle]

Gikyo in BTB would be so good yeah

[limber swan]

not that one

[hybrid gazelle]

imagine they can trap people with purple goop

[limber swan]

the other one

[hybrid gazelle]

THE HALLOW/HOLLOW would be such a good name

[quartz mist]

the first half of my message

[limber swan]

yes that one

[rotund gust]

see i went The Faceless cause of the raid debuff

[hybrid gazelle]

that work too

[limber swan]

sorry this is a habit I need to break

I dont know how though

its been getting really bad this year

[rotund gust]

i think Two would make for a good 2nd spirit for banish the beyond, but also two would be really cool in blizzard brawl as like a Rivals Dr. Strange type, making portals for the rest of the team

and overlap feels kinda lame with so many new characters

[quartz mist]

I don't think Torn In Twain shows Theorick as power hungry or corrupt, just as fed up and angry

[drifting aurora]

sadly two is not dead

[hybrid gazelle]

"sadly"

[winged narwhal]

yet

[hybrid gazelle]

I mean fair eonugh she is facist dictator supporter for a while

[drifting aurora]

i'm a two apologist

[limber swan]

doesn't it have to be someone whos dead

isn't that why Aledar is in it?

cause hes dead

[hybrid gazelle]

I think Two oopsie is making no attempt to help the queen learn about being human

but then agian

[drifting aurora]

its based off the Taker mobs

from EO

[hybrid gazelle]

she probably think it easier to let queen go off her course

[rotund gust]

i mean all of them are dead but ToA death and the random pile of rats idk. Kinda dead but

[hybrid gazelle]

letting than try fixing her

I guess Two see the queen and like "no fucking way I can fix her"

[drifting aurora]

death gets an explanation

[limber swan]

really?

always felt like it was Aledar

[drifting aurora]

she's very hard to pin down. constantly just getting out of the beyond again

[drifting aurora]

well the Taker mobs are aledar. or semblances of him

[winged narwhal]

I like Two

[drifting aurora]

the rats are kind of silly

but we're allowed a silly character i think

[rotund gust]

then Gikyo and Majin probably as the 2nd best options for BtB. I think panic zealot already covers the teleporter well enough for two to be left out

majin could be interesting

[drifting aurora]

i dont know what majin would do

[limber swan]

yet again i prove myself to be a casual as much as I want to believe I'm not lmao

[drifting aurora]

truthfully for btb i think we come up with the mechanics first

and assign a character after

[rotund gust]

hmmm

[winged narwhal]

explode

[drifting aurora]

trye

[rotund gust]

i mean you have the ability to make the players have their screens covered in various color filters right? he could apply a rainbow filter to people’s screens lmfao

[drifting aurora]

why

[rotund gust]

idk

rainbow funny

but also yeah explode

[hybrid gazelle]

oh yeah on topic of false death

I remember liking the deaign I made for her

[rotund gust]

him walking into you and just blowing up then respawning a few seconds later would be really funny

[hybrid gazelle]

I wonder how I should deisgn real death

[drifting aurora]

i liked your crow

[hybrid gazelle]

yeab vut I feel like

I could do more with the idea

||espcially with the new sphanis design I made||

||they are too similar||

[rotund gust]

lmfao, mora and syndra as BtB spirits

[hybrid gazelle]

they be throwing any dead people in BTB 😭

[drifting aurora]

not unheard of

but eh

[quartz mist]

oh, right, BTB

[hybrid gazelle]

what the possiblity that Azeal appear in bonfire

[rotund gust]

idk i don’t see why they’d be evil (granted mael isn’t really evil either)

[drifting aurora]

unlikely

[hybrid gazelle]

I think at least he would be sadden that Gikyo did not turn their life around

[quartz mist]

charging up a spirit well? from underneath...

[hybrid gazelle]

damn

[quartz mist]

https://tenor.com/view/majima-goro-majima-yakuza-manhole-gif-23026679

[drifting aurora]

hi zhiraok

[hybrid gazelle]

I guess Azeal probably make peace with the fact that like

Gikyo bound to end that way

[rotund gust]

yeah, gikyo being the only new spirit would be fine actually, the other dead characters all kinda whatever

[quartz mist]

zhiraok-chan

[rotund gust]

wait

[hybrid gazelle]

Notice how Azeal being surrounded with people that respect him and call him their master

while Gikyo just alone in the fort and mostly just train changeling

also their ||death|| just not really talk about much huh

[rotund gust]

Elise in BtB

she’s old

that’s her gimmick

hard mode for the spirit

lmfao

[hybrid gazelle]

she has a chance ot just die again

somehow

[quartz mist]

cripples a player at any distance with memory loss, preventing them from charging wells and slowing them down for a time, so long as they get LOS

idk

[hybrid gazelle]

I wonder where in the world woudl fruman character go

[rotund gust]

what would her spirit name be

[hybrid gazelle]

Yasanu and Soosu probably go to corkus

if Soosu accepted his invite

[rotund gust]

The Forgotten

also i just realized would zhiraok in blizzard brawl just be tracer 💀

[formal bridge]

Rex goes to wynn obviously to search for her brother

[formal bridge]

Tracer but big buff man

I only see improvements here

[rotund gust]

tracer but bear

[formal bridge]

Hell yeah

[quartz mist]

would he have his boomerang swords to use instead of just Guns

[rotund gust]

yeah

[rotund gust]

i mean, zhiraok and the canopy probably stay in fruma. I could see soosu going to study the colossus too

zeph probably would just go travel

[formal bridge]

Zeph and Yuman on a honeymoon around the world

[quartz mist]

zeph and yuman go on vacation to zhight island

[rotund gust]

actually BtB could feature any of the previous sovereigns.

assuming it’s post-wasteland selium would probably be the best choice since we’d know of he’s dead or not, and he’s the most relevant of the old sovereigns.

otherwise just any fun moveset and apply a sovereign to it since be know nothing about any of their blessings

Xima in BtB

[hybrid gazelle]

we gonna find selium like this

[bold geode]

These are lowkey the coolest fantasy weapon I’ve seen in a while btw

[rotund gust]

probably

[bold geode]

They’re just so unique

[quartz mist]

boomerang leaf sai

[bold geode]

“Let me see what you have!”
“A KNIFE”
“NO”

Oh yeah uh what are the ritual masks for

And why can’t I wear them

[bold geode]

NOOO they obliterated him

[humble wave]

i just did the lvl 111 quest "The Missing Piece" and the quest ends rather suddenly does this lore get expanded upon in future quests?

[mossy badge]

Ye

In echoes of change i think

[snow kiln]

Why is it that when you click the button to enter fruma here it shows a train sequence, that literally makes 0 sense.

I actually despise this so much

[slim belfry]

might be how the fast travel tech works?

I don't think you ever canonically exit fruma during the whole questline

[snow kiln]

I think a screenfade from black that puts you on the other side would be much more sensible though 😭

the train was an actual decision

[mossy badge]

SAME

[slim belfry]

yeah idk

[snow kiln]

And its an unskipable train sequence as well :|

[mossy badge]

Really? lmao

[mossy badge]

Well more like lack of decision lol

They just put the fast travel thats everywhere else

[drifting aurora]

nah

the reasoning for it is

[mossy badge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1071393285500829759/1420520316697968791/togif.gif

[drifting aurora]

youre not actually passing through the gate. you cannot pass through it during the fruma questline

so you take the train from ragni outskirts

[slim belfry]

OH

that makes a lot of sense now

[drifting aurora]

it's definitely not communicated the best

[slim belfry]

can you do the same at the ragni entrance

[mossy badge]

There is no train at the fruma gate 🥀

[mossy badge]

How?

What station are u arriveing at

lol

[slim belfry]

you go from ragni outskirts station to the torann station

[mossy badge]

So how tf do u end up at the royal gate 😭

Like if u would end up at ragni it would make sense

[slim belfry]

because it's gate to gate

[slim belfry]

in reality it'd be back and forth between these two

[mossy badge]

So u walk from ragni to royal gate off cutscene? 🥀

Crazy

[snow kiln]

oh, then why not make it impossible to reenter from gate and put the reentry back inside ragni palace?

feel like it'll make more sense thataway

[drifting aurora]

i did make a request to add that to ragni palace

but im unsure if its happened

[snow kiln]

I see yeah, cause I did actually try to go back to ragni palace to reenter it felt more logical :\

[slim belfry]

ragni also more convenient because of tp scroll

so there's that

well

could just buy any fruma ones =P

what's the main usage for gate travel

[mossy badge]

Good question

Idk

[dim plover]

Oh people are thinking that the Tasim alt option removal was actually intended

[mossy badge]

Its kinda useless

[dim plover]

I’m on Reddit rn and just saw this lol

[drifting aurora]

oops

[slim belfry]

not too far off given that the real choice is not telling

[drifting aurora]

Well its still gonna happen just taking me A While aaaaaa

[dim plover]

I’m a bit confused at the third comment because they seem to think that Tasim’s reaction to us in the later quests was the result of us telling him

Which

Idk why they would think that

[drifting aurora]

lol

[dim plover]

But

I can’t wait to finally enter Fruma

[slim belfry]

same

[dim plover]

(Not entering until the alt route is done is my own self-imposed restriction I’m not blaming anyone here)

[mossy badge]

💔

[drifting aurora]

i regret having the path available in queens recruit on beta

[dim plover]

I’m losing so much monetary value from not selling expensive new 107-120 stuff early

[slim belfry]

it's a part of my character arc because I kinda did bad in some other quests

[snow kiln]

Isn't it mega work cause it changes like the whole story 💀

[mossy badge]

When i dont do the beta cuz i wanna play on main BUT then i also can't play on main cuz shit is missing 😭

[dim plover]

All my classes are still stuck at 107 lmao

[mossy badge]

Sad

[dim plover]

Because I set myself this stupid rule

[drifting aurora]

yall the healthy thing to do would be to disregard the alt route's existence

[slim belfry]

true

[unique cedar]

What alt route?

There is only one route

[snow kiln]

Lmfao

[mossy badge]

True

There is no alt route in the fruman questline

🗣️

[snow kiln]

Bars mf

[drifting aurora]

i thought id be able to get it done prior to release, but the rest of the quest dialogue ended up taking more out of me, & it only ended up giving people false expectations

[unique cedar]

Smh people spreading misinformation

[mossy badge]

😂

[drifting aurora]

so. mistake. but it is what it is

[dim plover]

I won’t even be mad if the alt route doesn’t actually change any important events, I really doubt that Tasim’s boss battle will be excluded or that he won’t, uh, disarm Rex(’s bow)

But I’m just so mad at how the regular route was written that I absolutely want to do the alt route no matter what

[slim belfry]

it all ends the same anyway

[snow kiln]

How do u know all this without doing the quests

[dim plover]

Is this how Deltarune players felt in Noelle’s house

[mossy badge]

Disarm rex's bow 😭 🙏

[dim plover]

Like, I’m actively fighting against the game here

[drifting aurora]

lol

[dim plover]

This game thinks that I wouldn’t want to tell Tasim

[unique cedar]

Yeah

[dim plover]

And it’s ridiculous

Like, not even in the joking way I genuinely just hate this trope lol

[drifting aurora]

i do also regret the implementation of it

[dim plover]

(Even worse is when the protagonist is the player character that you yourself can control and the narrative forces you into the trope anyway)

[unique cedar]

How so?

[drifting aurora]

but it ended up this way due to the quest's structure

and is hard to change as a result

[snow kiln]

Are the internal lore teams pushing for this or?

[drifting aurora]

?

[snow kiln]

Like whose idea was the alt route

[drifting aurora]

mine

[split night]

what do you mean by this, im a deltarune fan

[snow kiln]

So you dug this hole yourself then, that's a shame :/

[slim belfry]

play the game first smh

[drifting aurora]

but i originally conceptualized it for an outline of queen's recruit that was much more open ended than the final version

[split night]

I played the game in so many time that I lost count

[drifting aurora]

and it doesnt work as well in this one

[dim plover]

I just realized that Tasim both Grime’d and Marcy’ed Rex in a single second

Which is wild

[snow kiln]

Rip scope creep, don't overwork yourself lexnt 😭 it's okay if purple doesn't play fruma we won't miss em anyways

[split night]

I'm asking for the context of that statement if you misunderstood xd

[slim belfry]

is this the version which wastelands was still included

[drifting aurora]

it doesnt really work as a secret optional route when it's as in your face as it is

[drifting aurora]

no

well. yes but thats not relevant

[slim belfry]

ah ok

[split night]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1167848346485006459/1394255128696979568/togif.gif

im not even getting the context now, woaw

[unique cedar]

How would you make it more secret?

[drifting aurora]

it had more open ended explore stages in between fights, where you'd get to explore the palace more

[snow kiln]

Gurl has one image and will use it to her grave.

[dim plover]

(Amphibia spoilers)

[mossy badge]

Lock it behind 64 dialogue of "you cant tell him" 🔥

[drifting aurora]

and to get the alt route youd need to intentionally get every tasim interaction in each stage

[split night]

This happened many times before this is just one particular image that im obsessed with

[dim plover]

Btw whose decision was it to have Tasim just do that

He could have just did the stab he didn’t have to do that other thing
It was actually just unnecessary lmao

[slim belfry]

weird route trying to make noelle thorn ring

[snow kiln]

It is a particularly easy image to obsses over I must say

[drifting aurora]

we wanted a consequence

[unique cedar]

Whenever I first did queen's recruit I thought the queen's decision to boot us away was based on if we lied or didn't lie to Tasim

[split night]

How is that related to the Tasim choice?
In deltarune thorn ring sequence have at least 3 dialog option that abort Snowgrave route if you choose it xd
it snew.

[drifting aurora]

in the first draft rex was going to die

[dim plover]

Ok yeah but like is there a reason why he did that other than “the story needed it to happen”

Because realistically he needed to go out of his way to do that additional move, like, he was already in a stabbing pose when he charged forward

[drifting aurora]

we decided against it because it felt like a death without much real reason behind it

[snow kiln]

Mhhm moras death was very impactful, seeing sui transform was great 👍

[drifting aurora]

i kinda imagined it as a slash at the arm expecting rex to dodge out of the way

[unique cedar]

I feel like Mora's death could be a bit more

Like he gets to say his last words to Sui

Or like tries to say something

[snow kiln]

I feel like it's worse for sui the way it is now

[split night]

Not even getting a chance to say goodbye hurt more

[drifting aurora]

but we still wanted some physical consequence to that final encounter

[snow kiln]

Gikyo kicking his lifeless corpse across the room is disgusting

[split night]

Yeah it fit their personality
very sick and twisted

[snow kiln]

Also room for epilogue content in future 🥺

[drifting aurora]

i do think we could have pulled off killing rex. but i think it was the right choice not to

[split night]

we need a Mora grave interaction like the one with Elise

[unique cedar]

I just feel like it would be more tragic if he tried to say something to Sui and died after rather than him just dying before we enter the room

[unique cedar]

Doesn't it disappear after the quest?

[snow kiln]

I think 3 grave interactions in fruma is far too much :p

[split night]

oh you mean like, he want to say something but his mouth is so filled with blood that he can't say it

[drifting aurora]

we need more graves...

[split night]

snow....

SNOW GRAVES

[slim belfry]

where are the other graves in fruma

[unique cedar]

Gravebuster...

[mossy badge]

Is there a grave interaction?

[snow kiln]

Should also add a grave for rex's bro in industrial

[split night]

chapter rewritten fan

[unique cedar]

Yep yep

[drifting aurora]

eh

[split night]

i mean like we burry or at least interact with it

[drifting aurora]

nobody wouldve really made one

[mossy badge]

Ah

[split night]

hold on lemme show you something

[snow kiln]

Oh yeah that's true

[drifting aurora]

he wasnt like. officially part of the steel feather or anything

[unique cedar]

It's a bit weird that we don't get to see Rex's family at all

I thought we would meet them in highlands

[snow kiln]

He was just a cog in the roughworks wheel to be disposed

[drifting aurora]

they are more of a background detail

[split night]

the Roaring Dullahan
It's kinda crazy someone could get what inspired this image

[snow kiln]

But I wouldn't be surprised if rex made one while she was looking for him

[drifting aurora]

there was a side quest planned in auburn that'd have dealt with them a little, which ended up scrapped

[unique cedar]

Worldsmith?

[snow kiln]

Any loose threads you want to tie up in the next couple of years with fruma or?

[split night]

sans is the worldsmith!!

[snow kiln]

At least you personally

[drifting aurora]

a couple

[snow kiln]

Aight good to hear

[unique cedar]

Always bet on papyrus knight

Jk we all know it's Rudy obv

[drifting aurora]

i kind of want to do an overall dialogue pass of the fruma storyline at some point. theres some things i'm not entirely happy with

[unique cedar]

Mooooooreeee Gikyoooooo

🥺

[snow kiln]

Just add the gikyo majin ao3 in a book in majins library

[drifting aurora]

gikyo has a cut cutscene we wanted to slot back in somewhere

but didnt have time

[unique cedar]

Yaaay

More Gikyo content

[drifting aurora]

it was a cutscene with gikyo and majin, but it played at the end of true colours, and was removed for tone reasons

[snow kiln]

Gikyo and majin you say🧐

It is cannon

[unique cedar]

Interesting

[snow kiln]

I can't believe those ao3 bars are actually cannon

[unique cedar]

Probably about majin taking the prisoners

[split night]

Gikyo transform into a horse for majin

[snow kiln]

You've read it too then

[unique cedar]

Gikjin 💀

[split night]

I have seen the art, i haven't read it

[snow kiln]

Good dont

[split night]

this ship is worse than Lari x Bak'al 😔

[unique cedar]

Save yourself some sanity

[snow kiln]

Ship, pfttt it's basically cannon

[slim belfry]

[split night]

so who tops

[unique cedar]

What are yall bets on the blessings of the past sovereigns?

[snow kiln]

For the record majin and gikyo are the oldest sov. Apart from two

[snow kiln]

Depends on gikyo's form

[unique cedar]

Caetal is just Plantern

[drifting aurora]

oru:

[split night]

Two always givem e the vibe that she is ancient as hell

[snow kiln]

Fogor

[drifting aurora]

i think you do learn about caetal's blessing

[unique cedar]

Yeah

It's said that it helps navigate the mists

So Plantern

[snow kiln]

Her dern coloured fit doesn't instill much confidence in me either.

[unique cedar]

Aelumnia Library has it

[slim belfry]

wonder how oru doesnt get bored managing a prison for that long

guess we'll find out

[unique cedar]

What if Oru is a changeling too

[snow kiln]

The same way wardens don't get bored in our prisons?

[slim belfry]

okay yeah got me there

[unique cedar]

Considering they originate from the wastelands

[snow kiln]

Oru is older than gikyo so I doubt.

[snow kiln]

Dropping the soap is universal no matter time and space

[unique cedar]

I mean that can happen

Older changeling

[drifting aurora]

i think we do have blessings thought up for all the past sovs

[snow kiln]

Weren't gikyo and canopy dude some of the first of the queens changelings?

[unique cedar]

That's not stated anywhere who knows

The most mysterious sov now is Amastli I think?

Barely any info on him, just the portrait and that he ruled over the industrial district

I don't think he's a Nasin?

[bold geode]

Btw can I talk to the characters somehow, after apotheosis

I don’t know where to look atm if I can

[drifting aurora]

you can find tasim

the rest, not yet, but we will likely add that in the coming weeks/months

we're still sorta recuperating from the fruma release

[bold geode]

Fair enough, makes sense

Kinda sad I cannot ask sui how she’s feeling after möth is obliterated and the rift has closed and such

expansion is still very peak regardless

[ripe tiger]

i would love to talk to mr.math, he seems like a cool guy to be friends with

[drifting aurora]

he is not going to be friends with you

[bold geode]

lmao

I’m sorry but Z probably sees you as a deranged killer

he doesn’t even side with you at the end of apotheosis

He just looks at the queen and goes “fuck this fight, we have a bigger problem”, essentially

Goes to evacuate auburn forest

if you get to talk to him again I’d expect that encounter to be at least a little hostile and ambivalent

[unique cedar]

Those Torann guards hit me first

[bold geode]

The worst thing is, he’s right

You break into the province again, illegally

Against all warning, take the train

Resist arrest, causing twelve deaths

[snow kiln]

yup Z is still a family man in the end, trying to undo the sins of house nasin. So killing children and parents who are military men and women in cold blood is disgusting

[bold geode]

I love how in all of Wynn and gavel you kill and slaughter left and right and nobody bats an eye

and then in fruma you are instantly held accountable

The whiplash is crazy

[uneven basin]

There's a bit in rise of the quartron where you slaughter like 50 ppl and the boss is like "wtf dude they had families and shit"

[snow kiln]

good writing shows 👍

[past plover]

non-lethal combat when?

[uneven basin]

Also there's the orc storyline that holds you accountable

It's a pretty good storyline

[bold geode]

In motherfruming fruma

You duel quite a lot of people and they don’t die

Though you do murder those guards in cold blood

or is it sui, doing that?

[warm flicker]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-are-we-the-baddies-surprised-gif-19176339

[uneven basin]

The thousands of slaughtered sentient canyon species :

[bold geode]

Mr Majin, another ice mage has hit the castle

[past plover]

It's also quite amusing the we are still able to kill citizens, especially by capital's gate where tourists for some reason have very low health

[bold geode]

Not necessarily though, I’d say

Player is a very morally gray character with a lot of potential for and history of doing wrong

But they do seem to care, they seem to strive for ultimately preserving the world

They aren’t like, evil. More misguided, too willing to reach the end, whatever the means might be.

[still zodiac]

Yo why when i look into my soul everythings just black?

Whats wrong the the player character

[bold geode]

“Who’s gonna hear?”
* ME

[snow kiln]

they also have 0 empathy

or at least had 0 empathy

I think player's changed since SE

[bold geode]

They have empathy, just not for anything getting in their way

[snow kiln]

[bold geode]

they don’t even speak before SE though, so we really cannot know what’s going on in their head

[snow kiln]

They felt 0 for mora and syndra tho and only helped rex cause they were peer pressured

The player is just legit such an odd character

[past plover]

I think we can safely include the desire for more wealth and powerful gear. Given how often we break in and do lootruns which I guess now includes burglary?

[snow kiln]

lootruns aren't cannon

anything silverbull that isn't the actual silverbull corp is non cannon I believe

[bold geode]

It’s not really made completely clear. What I assume is that in a way, the player character has your personality and is limited only by your own determination to push onwards in the story.

Which is why others cannot see anything when looking within, and your magic is described as a boundless, dark well

[mossy badge]

The silverbull lore grey area

[bold geode]

That’s my explanation, anyways

[past plover]

What about 'caves' themselves?

[mossy badge]

Is it canon or not 🤔

[snow kiln]

I mean they exist but them having loot makes 0 sense

its just there for gameplay

[snow kiln]

I mean there are silverbull corps in fruma so anything silverbull fruma is non-cannon

[snow kiln]

It feels like with fruma its pushing towards a more deltaruny player is their own character we're controlling

[past plover]

I would say it makes total sense for palaces in highlands, bandit hideouts and similar to have valuable loot

[snow kiln]

yeah but like who keeps 4 t3 chests in a room full of worms

[bold geode]

^

[snow kiln]

dude how are we reacting in this channel

is that rank only

[mossy badge]

Ye

[snow kiln]

do I seriously have to link my wynn to disc

uarhg

[still zodiac]

That makes sense wich makes the dialoug with the shadow lady make a little more sense

[radiant harbor]

Truly a Frisk type of situation

[radiant harbor]

Also Shadow lady says "Is this your reflection?" when your screen is black, so the intention was to probably infer that us, the player behind the screen, is John Wynncraft's reflection

[snow kiln]

Oh

That makes so much sense

[slim belfry]

what the heck

didnt think about that

deltarune angel player theory

[snow kiln]

I feel like this is too meta for wynncrafts lore tho

[slim belfry]

yeah I think there's a more grounded explanation

[snow kiln]

Is there?

[slim belfry]

the emptiness is supposedly there to hide the whatever is in there

[snow kiln]

...

[slim belfry]

also thinking because you can also draw out what's in it yourself without issue

[snow kiln]

Player can draw out not us

[radiant harbor]

Yeah I agree, but there's a chance this was intentional from the writers

[slim belfry]

you make the choice to directly pull it out

[snow kiln]

Mhm yeah this is true

[bold geode]

I think it’s still funny because there’s potential for like.
“Two, her Majesty was wrong from the beginning.”
“After all Zhiraok has already killed me.”
“7 times.”
“And when did that ever stop me from destroying her vision?”

[split night]

good bak'al

[bold geode]

Peak

[split night]

them side by side

[bold geode]

Is this what happens when you focus on the endless well instead of your weapon when trying to recharge the nasin revival charm

I need to look at that dialogue still

[slim belfry]

yes

[snow kiln]

Yes I don't understand what this endless well is exactly?

Is it just mana

[slim belfry]

we don't know

[snow kiln]

Too many metaphors

Everyone be speaking in riddles

[slim belfry]

I'll get the full dialogue if I can find it

[snow kiln]

It's weird tho cause you'd think people outside of fruma would know this stuff already???

Like why don't we have more suis in wynn

[slim belfry]

||Reach into the bottomless well.
. . .
For a moment, you feel nothing.
Is this your reflection? Emptiness?
It is. But it is also not. There was something here, once - you have caught glimpses of it before... but no longer.
And yet, you seem hardly affected by the lack...
It is still with you, you think. Taken and buried, buried deep, deep down, where you would never find it again.
Is this the source of your strength?
Whatever it was... you have not yet lost it. Something remains, something is hidden within that bottomless well... you only need to reach it.
Reach out.
A strand. Brittle, fraying, but... it is there. Colourless, transparent... but it. Is. There.
Pull on it.
A sudden rush of colour and light and energy and life, illuminating the unending emptiness - you can see now the extent, the sheer magnitude of this hole within your self-
You feel a deep, deep loss. Pain, anger, desperation, regret - and not all of it your own. A weight of something you cannot comprehend, cannot know.
The last thing you feel in this cavernous space is a quiet, mourning melody. You have never heard it before. But your soul knows it well.
The screen is no longer black.
You regain awareness. You look into your hand, at the charm gripped tight. It is charged.
Holding it, the sensation is unlike anything you have ever felt before. Energizing glow, soil and steel, raging ocean, and... something else. A melody, now known.||

[radiant harbor]

Sui is just an exception

[snow kiln]

Wait does the quest say your screen is no longer black???

Or is that just describing the scene

[slim belfry]

I think the screen is black this entire sequence

[snow kiln]

I see

[split night]

Bak'al

[snow kiln]

Okay so we had house twain, bakal and sui

You telling me that's it?

[split night]

The Twain Father somehow found all of the most powerful orphans ever in the province??

It must be at least a bit common

xd

[slim belfry]

or probably sensed their magic potential

[snow kiln]

It's probably just something you can develop

[split night]

powerful orphan radar

[snow kiln]

It's not like determined on birth

[gleaming apex]

I mean it's apparently something you can be born with naturally.

[snow kiln]

How do we know this?

[slim belfry]

I don't think we know which type of casting magic the twains have?

[split night]

the Twain library thing

or just a library near tower of ascension

i have foggy memory

[snow kiln]

Oh so big T did just have a goat orphan radar then lmfao

[split night]

Bro casually adopted 4 of the powerful orphan in the province

[slim belfry]

yes the lusuco secret library

[mossy badge]

Big T 🥀

[slim belfry]

they have natural magical gifts

[snow kiln]

I still find this crazy, imagine how common strong magic users actually are

If he managed to find 4 just in wynn, who were the same age and born in one time period

It's mad

[gleaming apex]

Because Two said Sui was a naturally-born manaweaver specifically

[slim belfry]

not exactly

[snow kiln]

Oh I remember this dialogue

[slim belfry]

there are there types of magic users to cast

[snow kiln]

But it also implies there are trained mana weavers

[snow kiln]

I only know of elemental and cosmic what's the third?

[slim belfry]

not like that

almost anyone can use magic but how they produce it differs

• with a focus (weapons, items, etc)
• without a focus (their own mana reserve)
• manaweavers (can draw from "an ocean" of sorts)

[gleaming apex]

Yeah I do think it's probably possible to train but I assume it's probably not very easy. Since they seem kinda op and two implies even the natural ones are super rare

[snow kiln]

Do we have any actual mention of mana weavers apart from what two said?

[slim belfry]

nope

[snow kiln]

Aight so we don't know then if manaweavers are inherently different to non focus users?

[slim belfry]

no they're definitely different as I said

they get their energy from outside themselves

[gleaming apex]

Just Sui's own description. That she can basically draw on the mana in the world around her and use it for themselves, which makes them pretty powerful

[snow kiln]

Which quest does two say this Im gonna check

[gleaming apex]

Sui says it herself

[slim belfry]

almost any quest with Sui using magic

Sui mentions how she's never really tired

[snow kiln]

No the quest where two name drops manaweavers

[slim belfry]

Apotheosis

[gleaming apex]

Apotheosis at the end

[spring kernel]

the end of apotheosis

[radiant harbor]

One of the last sentences we have

[slim belfry]

hi Magic the Lore Nerd

we're magicking it up rn

[gleaming apex]

Actually yeah Two says that the knowledge of manaweavers was lost with the old world

[snow kiln]

Yeah so she doesn't distinguish if they're different from non focus users

[spring kernel]

that's cool

have fun figuring out manaweavers

[snow kiln]

It could be that any non focus user can become a manaweavers

Or that focus use is not tied to the threads

[slim belfry]

what kind of elemental magic would you want mastery over

[snow kiln]

It's sad we'll never get any lore about this tho 😔

[spring kernel]

you might

[slim belfry]

we might in later quests

[snow kiln]

I highly doubt it

Old world lore is like non existent

It's so sad 😭

[split night]

I think all this seem to make them more fluent and hard to deal with
I imagine it would be a tough fight if I ever try to neutralize Sui

an ocean of mana seem infinite

[snow kiln]

I think they're trying to keep it vague to lead up to some big reveal

[spring kernel]

thanks queenie

she did a good job

[snow kiln]

I mean the precursors in gavel?

Also gone

Zilch

Nada

[slim belfry]

apparently she mentions that it can still "drain" and she needs to wait for it to "fill" again if she uses too much

[snow kiln]

The few who may know don't say jack

[snow kiln]

When she stops the dam she says it felt unlimited to her

[split night]

Huh so the only thing that make them better at combat is that even when they lost their weapon they can still defend themself

[split night]

yeah because Tasim boosted her

[snow kiln]

Oh I see

[split night]

I thought that one was clear, Tasim said and give her a bit of butterfly power xd

[snow kiln]

Isn't his magic intention tho

I feel like it's only boosting what she could do?

[split night]

yeah it is exactly that

he supplies her with like, near limitless mana regen at that moment

[snow kiln]

I don't think sui has mana the same way the player and tasim do

[split night]

Im made a metaphor

[frozen turtle]

honestly Majin was right w/ tasims blessing being boring

[snow kiln]

ah

[snow kiln]

its cooler than his blessing smh

popping like a balloon ain't cool

[frozen turtle]

Majin, despite his many many flaws does have a cool blessing

imo

[mossy badge]

Ye

[snow kiln]

tell that to Gale

[split night]

Tasim have butterfly power wdym boring

He look cool as hell in those wings

[snow kiln]

I still don't understand how intention = butterfly lmfao

[frozen turtle]

majin blessing: basically a god
tasim blessing: 🧚‍♂️

[snow kiln]

at least tasim didn't blow himself up

[slim belfry]

oh? I never looked at the weapon dialogue

[snow kiln]

also majin trained his blessing over hundreds of years

[frozen turtle]

or how intention means boosting powers

[snow kiln]

but like tasim had like 30 ish years and was getting close in strength with his blessing

[snow kiln]

intention boosting powers makes sense

[slim belfry]

weapon dialogue has a different tone compared to reaching the bottomless well

[frozen turtle]

its less the strength its more "wtf is his actual blessing"

[snow kiln]

yeah its not as clearcut as the other sov.

[slim belfry]

here I'll get the dialogue for the weapon choice

[split night]

@uneven basin https://discord.com/channels/143852930036924417/1495805797274484736
I made a the Bak'al design check em out!!

[snow kiln]

tho I still don't understand what's gikyo's blessing

just boosting his powers is mega sad

legit the most boring one

[split night]

Gikyo being more powerful than the average changeling

xd

[mossy badge]

True

[slim belfry]

gikyo's is using the abilities of copied people

[snow kiln]

still kwinda wame

[slim belfry]

changelings can only do appearances

[frozen turtle]

its hard to tell because we never see another changeling as someone with powers

but it is that

[mossy badge]

But the changelings at the fort used magic

I love hearing thunder all around me

[snow kiln]

they're trained in magic

[slim belfry]

||You tighten your grip on the weapon in your hand. You concentrate on the points of contact, the feel of it pressing against your skin.
Through the weapon, you feel the singing hum of magic in the air around you. A sensation like warmth, like rain, like soil, like wind, like static... it is familiar.
Your focus draws inwards, pulling the hum with it. Towards the center of your body, your self, your soul. Flowing within, a rushing river - of magic, of mana, familiar. You know it well.
Points of contact - your grip on your weapon, and the charm in your other hand. You push the mana outwards, divert the river's course, and watch it flow out into the charm.
And just like that, the hum fades, and the river returns to its natural course. The revival charm is charged.
Holding it, the sensation is unlike anything you have ever felt before. Energizing glow, soil and steel, raging ocean, and... you. A catalyst. A hum in the air.||

[snow kiln]

gikyo used mora and rex's abilities

[split night]

Oh yeah Gikyo can copy moves that is pretty powerful

honestly i was DYING to have a fight with a mimic player's Character

[frozen turtle]

depends on which moves he can copy

[mossy badge]

I mean who says others can't learn it

[split night]

but we never get that

[snow kiln]

see this dialogue makes it seem like manaweavers just do what is written here, the just leech directly from the ocean

[split night]

Imagine *they copy us, that fight would go pretty hard

[snow kiln]

well he's not dead

[slim belfry]

okay player is an EXTREMELY UNIQUE case

we have no clue what the player is

[split night]

It's kinda funny how fluent we are at it as well, to a powerful case

[frozen turtle]

would be cool, but i feel like gikyo cant change into something too strong

[snow kiln]

no we need a superboss

[frozen turtle]

who knows gikyo might've just been goofing around lowkey

[mossy badge]

I mean they could have made it based on ur class/archetype but it would have taken shit long

[split night]

we are identified as too strong now, so peak

[snow kiln]

endgame players are cheesing too much

[radiant harbor]

Didn't Sui, like, impale him?

[snow kiln]

he's alive

[mossy badge]

I thought gikyo is dead?

[split night]

*They are not dead? i thought Sui pierce *them with ice

[snow kiln]

He's alive

[frozen turtle]

I kinda thought gikyo was alive cuz i assumed they burnt changelings because knives and stuff dont work

[split night]

That's kinda odd xd
interact with *their lifeless body is weird to know that *they was still alive

[snow kiln]

He's alive

[slim belfry]

erm

[mossy badge]

https://tenor.com/view/an-iq-too-high-raven-crow-tiktok-gif-3869671553367641450

[frozen turtle]

chanelings are weird

[radiant harbor]

Why the asterisk? Because it's not clear?

[split night]

No im trying to subtly remind the guy but he's a little stubborn 😭

[snow kiln]

remind about what?

[slim belfry]

yeah but meant the source of the magic

[mossy badge]

They/them theory

[mossy badge]

Wdym?

[snow kiln]

wouldn't it be more accurate tho

[split night]

the 51 they them citation

[frozen turtle]

cows i made an entire theory about it

[mossy badge]

🔥

[slim belfry]

the nature of the bottomless cavern inside the player and why it hides our magic

[mossy badge]

Well does that matter for gikyo to copy ur abilities

[slim belfry]

weapon dialogue choice at least confirms the magic we use is ours

[frozen turtle]

depends on what magic they can copy, cuz im assuming gikyo cant just transform into like Orphion and win

[mossy badge]

Btw why do changelings look suspiciously dernic

[slim belfry]

because they came from tar

[mossy badge]

lol

[split night]

Gikyo immediately cast 10000x fireball

[slim belfry]

from the wastelands

[frozen turtle]

theory: Orphion this entire time has actually been gikyo in disguise

[slim belfry]

and people are going "oh my gosh wastelands is dernic"

I think

[mossy badge]

If they could copy the ones they copied, they could prolly copy the player

[slim belfry]

they probably could

[snow kiln]

no we can see it

it just looks like mesa

[split night]

I want that but like
the copied me would be green

it would be so cool

[mossy badge]

The devs just didn't make it cuz would take shit ton of time (or atleast i assume)

[frozen turtle]

do u think gikyo can only transforms into someone he beats cuz gikyo beat mora, zeph and rex and get their abilities or smth weird

[slim belfry]

it'd be like overtaken anyway

[mossy badge]

Well rex and zeph are alive

So like "beat" would be pretty abstract

[frozen turtle]

yeah but he still beat them

idk

cuz if i was fighting someone who was strong, i would just turn into them

[slim belfry]

I think they can copy anyone's abilities as long as they know what they are

or what they're capable of

[frozen turtle]

maybe, but then why not just become anathema

[mossy badge]

If they touch u

🔥

[frozen turtle]

i think there is probably a limiter

which they just havent explained

[slim belfry]

anathema is an entirely different entity yeah

[mossy badge]

At most they could look like the queen

[frozen turtle]

or one of the sovs

[mossy badge]

I mean maybe they could

It just makes more sense that they copy our "friends" i think

[frozen turtle]

tasim!!

[slim belfry]

I think the ceiling would be advanced magic

[frozen turtle]

probably

[radiant harbor]

The answer is: they wanted to make the player fight the leaves of wind

[slim belfry]

anything above is off limits

[split night]

I think Gikyo can genuinely transform into the look of anyone due to their changeling nature
but the copy ability part is probably near or at Sovereing level below

[snow kiln]

well how do we define sov. level 😭

just moving the goal here

like was majin actually strong

[frozen turtle]

the level between sovs is so big

[split night]

below demi gods or near our level i'd say
we beat all of them

[snow kiln]

cause he was weak as hell

[slim belfry]

ew is this p*werscaling

[frozen turtle]

Soosu is too op we dont even fighth er

[snow kiln]

unless he is canonically stronger lore wise

[mossy badge]

1shots me at 40k ehp smh

[snow kiln]

which makes no sense

[frozen turtle]

sadly it is

[snow kiln]

in context with what else we've seen

he's weak as

[mossy badge]

Are the others stronger?

[frozen turtle]

lowkey i kept losing so many bosses in fruma but like its just cuz i kept walking into the vfx areas which do a bunch of damage

[mossy badge]

How do u know

[radiant harbor]

He destroyed me...

[snow kiln]

I mean his boss fight was strong, but like tasim and gikyo weren't that far behind

was my meaning

like he only had 11m hp in the boss fight

[frozen turtle]

how much is the power vs just gameplay quest scaling

[snow kiln]

this is true and is problematic

[split night]

I first tried every boss in Fruma
they were hard for like the first few minute but when I learn their attack patterns they are pretty easy to dodge

[mossy badge]

Still strong attack

Tasim is just paladin, ez 1st try

[frozen turtle]

I would just stand in like Syndras fire or the changeling goo and wonder why i kept taking so much damage

[slim belfry]

I need to try fruma live as soon as possible

[snow kiln]

try dodging with 800ms :\

[mossy badge]

How much ehp

[split night]

40k, im bolt

[mossy badge]

Hmm

[split night]

I just dodge everything

[mossy badge]

Majin just dashes into me and rip 40k ehp

[snow kiln]

do you actually have 0 ping

gosh darn americans

[mossy badge]

Ig im just slow

[split night]

80ms arounds
I'm AS

xd

[snow kiln]

WAYHT

still basically 0 tho :(

[split night]

I beat them during the time the server wasn't ass so

[slim belfry]

bolt expert wtf

[split night]

I did spend like 21 hours finised Fruma xd

[slim belfry]

I played sharp and kept getting one shot by tasim

[snow kiln]

true tho how did the server get worse when less players were playing :\

[snow kiln]

tasim didn't have any one shots tho?

[slim belfry]

ok

killed by single attack

[snow kiln]

yeah I get that

[slim belfry]

maybe idk

my memory is kinda off

[mossy badge]

Does tasim even do much dmg

Like he's pala

[split night]

I just love bolt's movement, even if they nerf the damage, I would still use it because of how fast it is and how versatile it can dodge anything quickly

[snow kiln]

you might have been hit by 2-3 hits in one frame or something

cause tps is ass

[radiant harbor]

I dodge 74% of attacks according to my agility, but the others 1shot me

[slim belfry]

gikyo took me 2 tries

[mossy badge]

The humble agi fail

[split night]

I'm talking about actual dodging not agility effect xd

[slim belfry]

1st was because MY ULT KEPT MISSING AND I DIED

[snow kiln]

yeah I was like 1 more phase?

another phase?

[radiant harbor]

Yeah I know lol

[snow kiln]

oh how long does this keep going

[mossy badge]

I mean its pretty ez other than the mora 1shot

[slim belfry]

mora phase has a 1 shot?

[split night]

how did you guys even die to mora

[snow kiln]

the mora 1 shot with no real telegraph of it being a 1 shot

[snow kiln]

yeha

[mossy badge]

Ye

[snow kiln]

I mean he instakilled my 80k monster

[mossy badge]

Launches on u and ur dead

[split night]

Mora have a one shot??

[radiant harbor]

Rex is the only hard phase

[snow kiln]

if it wasn't one shot then idk

[snow kiln]

nah u just go in circle

[slim belfry]

rex was easy because I just burst damage it

also dodging

I know my own attack's weaknesses

[mossy badge]

I have 20% ws btw 🔥

[slim belfry]

arc vs arc

[snow kiln]

I was running monster so I had 0 walk, I had to jump walk

[split night]

I do that for every bosses, real tricks

[snow kiln]

legit none of the wynn bosses have any real aoe

[slim belfry]

what about the fire and water spells

[split night]

If I happen to encounter an actual threat I just escape cast myself away

I always play with the mindset that if I can stay alive means i can still do damage

[snow kiln]

Imagine having reaction time

[uneven basin]

What about quira's water guy

[slim belfry]

apparently if I touch the water a few times I instantly die

[frozen turtle]

just monster spam heal

[split night]

I'm a deltarune fan what did you expect

I beat roaring knight no heal no mantle before

[mossy badge]

Not gonna avoid the 1shot lol

[frozen turtle]

the water waves are actual annoying in boss fights

[mossy badge]

U need a fire pot

[snow kiln]

all the qira fights are exceptions they're all quirk based fights

[frozen turtle]

fiery aura scrolls 😎

[snow kiln]

which water?

[slim belfry]

the wave spell that pushes you

[radiant harbor]

You can't escape qira's cobwebs of doom and despair

[snow kiln]

Oh yeah if u lag out and u get stuck and take like 6 hits

yeah

[mossy badge]

Sky mushroom water spell, i love that

[frozen turtle]

why do both gikyo and majin have that weird light circle attack, there is lore there fr

[snow kiln]

I'm so happy that fruma just doens't use the spell system

[slim belfry]

I get pushed once or twice and die not 6 lol

[snow kiln]

so tired of push pulls

[mossy badge]

Gikyo has that?

[mossy badge]

Hop in krisa manor 🔥

[frozen turtle]

ye in the Mora phase

pretty sure

[snow kiln]

eh i just tp through the fodder

its not as bad as how it was in other areas

[mossy badge]

They still knock back

[frozen turtle]

i just remember seeing it in multiple sov fights

[mossy badge]

lol

[frozen turtle]

idk if its just a sov ability

[mossy badge]

Also the fucking trapdoors fuck up ur spells

[snow kiln]

I wouldn't know I still haven't done fruma lrs

spend too much time yappin here

[split night]

Fruma lr is pretty fun

I like it

[mossy badge]

https://tenor.com/view/he-made-a-statement-statement-dog-clowned-trash-opinion-your-opinion-gif-15033044919438935088

[split night]

I mean don't take advice from me though, i get 100 pulls from 100 challenge runs on average

[mossy badge]

In 2 hours?

[frozen turtle]

i havent even done fruma lr cuz i did those castle caves and i hated it so much i never wanted to do it again

[split night]

yes 😔

I'm ass at lr

[mossy badge]

real

[split night]

I lr with bolt

[mossy badge]

Well well well

[frozen turtle]

lr with shaman

[mossy badge]

Shade lr 🤑

[split night]

I did just that with the same result xd
I think I'm gonna start with a mage class and try to warpslop my way in lr

[frozen turtle]

i had a great warrior lr build but it was nerfed and im sad about it

[mossy badge]

The days when hero bashscream was the goat 🥺

Wtf did i just read

This never came to my mind

[split night]

Parent got divoced with their children 😔

[snow kiln]

we're taking time off our lifespan clock with this one

[split night]

I had fun though, isn't that what matter most? xd

[snow kiln]

well croaquin is an alcoholic

checks out tbh

[mossy badge]

🔥

[snow kiln]

That's what I told to the bank when they tried to repo my house. It didn't work :(

[boreal crane]

dont know if this is lore relevant but he's here now

what a downfall

[rotund gust]

what…

the wiki just be sayin shit huh

[mossy badge]

I mean it kinda makes sense

[slim belfry]

it's implied to be the case

the sanity part ehhhhh

[slim belfry]

"Hi I know what you did before being here."

[snow kiln]

sand underzale?

[rotund gust]

what

[slim belfry]

talk to croaquin

[zenith venture]

can you imagine dr picard doing the memory ball thing on him and we can bring eftal to picard as a little easter egg?

[rotund gust]

them being a changeling is implied but

i don’t really see the gikyo thing. “Father? Mother? Couldn' really tell. Dey seemed real proud to be my parent, though.” like that could be anyone.

[exotic bough]

I mean

[rotund gust]

i get that gikyo is our resident non-binary character but also, that mf is not the parenting type

[exotic bough]

Do we know of any other changelings with an androgynous appearance

[snow kiln]

Mhhm this was my confusion as well

I wouldn't be surprised if it's just another changeling

Like azael is way more parently then gikyo

[hybrid gazelle]

Yeah but

[snow kiln]

But azael doesn't use his changeling powers at all

[hybrid gazelle]

Azeal would already form the canopy by then

[uneven basin]

It really is tbh

[hybrid gazelle]

so he has no way chance to be who Croquin saw

[snow kiln]

Yeah but there are other changelings

[hybrid gazelle]

SINCE WHEN

yedah but then again who else LOL

there literally only few noteable

[uneven basin]

Gale ?

she kinda nuked the house's reputation by running away

[snow kiln]

I hate how the wiki is just injecting head cannon hear and thete

[rotund gust]

“some believe it is worth it while some believe it is not worth it at all” 🔥 ✍️

[exotic bough]

Why did the person writing that think it was selium

The last sentence there pretty much confirms it’s gale

See house divided for my reasoning

[snow kiln]

Because the editor wanted to affirm their head cannon 😭

[slim belfry]

OH MY GOSH WHAT

[hybrid gazelle]

Seilum transition theory??