📚lore_discussion

[tepid blade]

same

[rich scarab]

we also know that they have some unknown factor adding weight to their side of the scales (unknown to the queen and to orphion), so i imagine removing that will also probably weaken them a lot too

[silk ravine]

I think so too, but they’d need to buff him quite a bit to make him seem threatening. He was getting manhandled by Lari who we know isn’t stronger than the player and got embarrassed by Bob who is probably stronger than us at his absolute peak but I wouldn’t say by much.

[hollow lynx]

Even then, She seems stronger than someone like theorick in we don't know how many years

[silk ravine]

Also do you mean the wastelands expansion or the realm of darkness?

[tepid blade]

Also we don't know how powerful a full powered beast is, we know that bob tried but failed

[tepid blade]

true, your point still stands

[rich scarab]

bak'al isnt nearly powerful enough for that, we're probably pretty similar in strength to him already

[gleaming apex]

I'm just saying I wouldn't be surprised if Bak'al was secretly planning to betray ||Saphanis||

[tepid blade]

Dern expansion

[silk ravine]

I don’t think Sui is stronger than Theorick as of right now tbh, an old, dying almost corrupted Theorick still froze two whole cities and the surrounding area. Sui held back water coming though a big hole which is impressive but not quite enough to match him.

[tepid blade]

well, Bak'al is powerful but a coward, and I saw someone give out a theory that he threw the fight with Lari to capture her, and Bob was a long time ago and Bak'al only had the powers of war on his side, not both War and Dark

[hollow lynx]

She just kinda killed a scion cause she was angwy

[gleaming apex]

Yeah and he froze the area permanently, which is pretty crazy

[rich scarab]

plus theorick was basically dying at that point, plus sui was very nearly failing

[hollow lynx]

And that was barely any time into fruma

[silk ravine]

I feel like he’s probably more of a “Villain” than the Dern beast. The beasts are more forces of nature that cannot comprehend life below them rather than outright evil, but Bak’Al is undoubtedly a bad dude.

[tepid blade]

wasn't that the halfway quest though?

[tepid blade]

true, he would make a more compelling final evil

[hollow lynx]

My point is that we won't go storming into dern and she will probably get quite a bit stronger

I don't think theorick was a manawaver

[silk ravine]

Gikyo was badly wounded already though, he said so himself after turning into ||Mora||

[gleaming apex]

Yeah but Theorick literally changed the climate of like 1/5 of Wynn

[tepid blade]

But he was more powerful, just because she has a capacity to be more powerful, doesn't mean she is more powerful yet

[rich scarab]

i think given enough time and training sui could probably overtake theorick but she isnt there yet

[gleaming apex]

Sui has the potential to surpass him though

But right now I don't think she's stronger

[silk ravine]

This, she definitely could be stronger than Theorick but she isn’t as of right now. Although we don’t even know how powerful a prime Theorick is considering we only see him when he’s either old, dying or dead.

[hollow lynx]

I do find weird that we are sort of a manaweaver

More evidence that we are just a shell

Two finds it quite interesting that Sui is one but doesn't mention us

[rotund gust]

she kill stole

[gleaming apex]

She probably didn't know anything was up with us since even ||Anathema|| couldn't tell until she inspected us extremely closely

[rotund gust]

AHC theorick is prime

i assume so anyway

i just figured he has like white hair because of the ice magic, not because he's actually old, seeing as in family fractured his brothers all have hair that matches more middle aged people, and its not mentioned that he's significantly older than them

[rich scarab]

p-3 is theorick prime??

[hollow lynx]

You have to no hit all of dern for it

[hollow lynx]

Would make sense as even at the start she was wondering why we were so special

[rotund gust]

also i don't think we have a birth year for theorick.

Marius dies 570AP

theorick he gets corrupted 589 AP. Wiki says "born around 500 AP" but has no source listed.

[gleaming apex]

If anyone asks, we're just really good at fighting and everyone else has a skill issue, nothing special about us. Definitely.

[rotund gust]

theorick leaves the twains in 550AP.

and he seems to be an adult by then (granted he never changes his skin so who knows)

so lowball age for his corruption based on the dates we have is probably like late 40s early 50s.

if we take the wikis word for it and he is born around 500AP, then he gets corrupted at 89 years old

which

idk i don't see that making sense

[gleaming apex]

Why not?

[rotund gust]

bro would've shattered like glass

[gleaming apex]

He's just that guy

[formal bridge]

Magic

Hes literally got magic powers, slower aging isn't that odd lmao

[rotund gust]

i mean marius's slow aging is described as an anomly in luscuco library

idk i just feel like 50s-60s fits better for his age then old ass man who should be in a wheelchair

[uneven basin]

Has anyone made a timeline of fruma's ages yet ?

[rotund gust]

what does the current sovereigns 2nd number mean

[steep forum]

frum year to AP conversion

[rotund gust]

oh

[steep forum]

given AP is standard for wynn, gavel, crocus

[uneven basin]

Do we have one for past sovereigns ?

[rotund gust]

i mean two we know is before >4KA, just because we know she joined second so before Oru

[rich scarab]

two's been around since pretty much the start iirc

[rotund gust]

two joins after bak'al becomes war scion but i don't remember if queen says thats before or after bak'al abandons her

[uneven basin]

If only two was public enough to have a portrait in the library it would make this easier

[rotund gust]

heres the architect shrine cutscene

yes i dropped 12stx for dialogue

[tepid blade]

What the even is that person, they don't even look human

[rotund gust]

curious that this character has a name, while the character in restitution is ???

olm maybe?

[tepid blade]

but Olm skin is grey?

[rotund gust]

yeah this is more white

maybe one of the psionics? but we don't know if thats a species or just group of people

anyone know if the language people have deciphered some of this cutscene yet?

[tepid blade]

It could be a mask, as the black part stops not long before it becomes which, which looks like hair

[rotund gust]

maybe its Two lmfao

[tepid blade]

I'm more interested in that outfit, it looks like some kind of advanced technology, possibly an alien species of some kind?

[rotund gust]

its probably the same as the author of the text on the shrine

same character count

Tefris Ethprilash

so unless bak'al turned from that into a human, i think my Tefris is bak'al theory might be dead

[tepid blade]

They still could be a person in a mask

[rotund gust]

ok yeah i just checked

that person IS Tefris

we have a face to the name i guess

[tepid blade]

cool

[tepid blade]

also how did you check this, did you translate it?

[rotund gust]

the shrine itself has fruman text and the wynnic translation

and its signed at the end by Tefris

[tepid blade]

okay, just wondering

[rotund gust]

and the characters match up

[tepid blade]

makes sense

[rotund gust]

that first word matches the name of that npc

so thats Tefris

[rotund gust]

@wary lantern idk if you saw them yet but you were the other person invested in the shrines on beta

[wary lantern]

do we really still not have a video

gah

[rotund gust]

i screenshoted both cutscenes for restitution and architect, i don't have a way to record on my laptop

but nothing happens in either

[wary lantern]

obs not work?

[rotund gust]

its just a person standing still with dialogue

i've tried it just doesn't like me (im stupid and can't figure it out)

[wary lantern]

also

wait holy shit

[warped cargo]

Fruma spoilers ||I wonder if Annihilation is War trying to form a new realm beast after The Queen abandoned War. Because Annie seems far too powerful to just be a normal inhabitant of the Realm of War, and we don't see anything even comparable to it from Light or Dern. And given that light and dern end the world by winning the war of influence, but Annie is said to destroy the world if it ever manages to fully exit the portal it would make sense.

If so, I don't think Annihilation is fully a realm beast yet, but more of something that was formed in War trying to fill the lack of one||

[wary lantern]

||that looks like two||

[rotund gust]

yeah thats my thought. Tefris could be Two

[wary lantern]

||same glove design, masked appearance, etc||

[rotund gust]

but also didn't CT confirmed Tefris was a guy in the old story spoilers thread?

[exotic bough]

||arent there like several annis in the realm of war||

[rotund gust]

unless the queens blessing force-femmed Two

[wary lantern]

thought so too

trans two? good for her

[wary lantern]

ah

nvm then

[tepid blade]

The mask doesn't look like theirs, but it could be related to her mask as they share the same colors, just inverted

[wary lantern]

finally, we found One /j

[rotund gust]

and then restitution cutscene here

[wary lantern]

also

anyone wanna lend me an archi

[rotund gust]

yes i bought both mythics

[wary lantern]

i wanna replaymod it

[rotund gust]

ill lend you mine

[wary lantern]

see if their gloves are also opposites

ok leme get on

[rotund gust]

i did just sell the restitution i bought inorder to afford the architect tho

so uh

[warped cargo]

||I don't think so, why do you say so? In case I missed something and you're right.||

[wary lantern]

how much is resti

i got 5stx rn

[rotund gust]

i bought mine for 1stx

arcitect was like 12stx

[wary lantern]

ah ok

im online

wya

im in espren na18

[rotund gust]

at architect shrine

[exotic bough]

||you can see them in the background while in the realm of war in wtp||

[rotund gust]

ill switch worlds

[warped cargo]

||oh, I guess I just didn't see them||

[tepid blade]

I think that Two and Tefris are related in someway, because they each have similar color patterns, but different colors in that pattern, and their masks are similar, but Tefris's one is different horizontally, ||Tefris could be one of the people Two was talking about in that cave we saw in her memories||

[rotund gust]

oh they defo related somehow

[wary lantern]

sibling maybe?

or friend/partner

not sure

[rotund gust]

two but green

[tepid blade]

||I was thinking same organization at least, as they where other thrones we see in that sequence||

[wary lantern]

yea

council members?

[rotund gust]

is there a dedicated thread for the shrines rn? I know the mystery thread exists in general but idk how active it is

[wary lantern]

oh shit

[tepid blade]

||possibly the colonial council that the stone overlooking Ragni mentioned||

[wary lantern]

it is what i suspected

||half white half black underdressing/gloves just like two||

[rotund gust]

wait

am i in the video

[wary lantern]

yeah it uses the onmap spot lol

just with clientside cutscene

[rotund gust]

do you wanna do it again so i can leave for a cleaner video?

[wary lantern]

nah its fine we know it was u

the important bits are gotten

[rotund gust]

yeah

also i feel like thats olmic

the skins a bit white

[wary lantern]

we dont see skin

what

[shut hornet]

||its just a very big devil, you see more of them during the raid||

[wary lantern]

they also have a green splotch on their back?

glowing

motherfucker this outfit is COOL

[shut hornet]

thats a hood

[wary lantern]

ohhh

wait holy shit

[rotund gust]

you can you get a replay mod screenshot of the of the skin?

[wary lantern]

green two

he(?) is green because he is placed there...

ignore the leg jank

[rotund gust]

hmmm

[exotic bough]

does that look like a nasin or is that just me

[rotund gust]

maybe a psionic, maybe whatever two is

[wary lantern]

im beginning to think this is the Council Member garb

[exotic bough]

mainly the white hair and green highlights are doing that for me

[wary lantern]

and thats what two is/was

OH

[rotund gust]

yeah that seems like it would make sense

[wary lantern]

CUZ THERE WAS AN AMOUNT OF THEM

[rotund gust]

lmfao

[wary lantern]

this may well actually be a number title

[rotund gust]

Tefris is Three cause they both start with t

trust

[wary lantern]

maybe that name is like also a title idk

lmfao pft

[tepid blade]

It could be a kind of green hair ornament, not a bald spot

[wary lantern]

what

who tf thought that was a bald spot

[rotund gust]

also ashdew did you see the partial translation of the restitution cutscene yet?

[wary lantern]

of course its a fuckin ornament 😭

[rotund gust]

its already kinda translated

[wary lantern]

also no i havent

imma go see it myself rn

[rotund gust]

hold on ill find it and reply to it

[tepid blade]

I thought that what you said when talking about their skin color, oops, I'm just stupid i guess

[rotund gust]

i believe this is the restitution cutscene

oh architect is also somewhat translated

lmfao Blight is also mentioned in architect

i KNEW it was signifcant that it was capitalized

[wary lantern]

well yea

[exotic bough]

pretty sure that takes place between 0 ap and 200 ap if thats referring to the corruption

[rotund gust]

idk yall we're trying to talk me out of it in the old thread. just a quirk of capitalization

[warped cargo]

no wonder i missed those, they blend so well into the spikes

[wary lantern]

i wasnt

i remember saying the opposite 😭

[rotund gust]

wait a minute

[wary lantern]

that capitalizing it meant it was a title for something

[wary lantern]

like specifically relevant

[rotund gust]

look at architects item lore

then look at the translation

[wary lantern]

..

[rotund gust]

hold on

[wary lantern]

was two a creation?

was two fucking created?

what

am i stupid (yes) (dont listen to my stupid fucking ass)

[rotund gust]

"My [SELETS] will demand to build soldiers with [KROV]"

architect talking about soldiers

[wary lantern]

hmmmm

[rotund gust]

ok so i’m gonna place a bet rn

Halcyon is gonna be somewhere in or around majin’s mansion. That or in the aelumia university. The item lore is literally about him

[wary lantern]

chat do we think this is bak'al IM JOKING DONT KILL ME

[drifting aurora]

holy true . . .

[wary lantern]

wait ok but with tefris bak'al theory and also the way they look so much like Two and were also the First...

maybe its the other one

but prob not idk

imagine my joke about that being One was right hahaha

no no way tho

[drifting aurora]

maybe we were bak'al all along

[digital swan]

no One is from the old world
before humans arrived in Fruma

[wary lantern]

woah...

[tepid blade]

Okay theory about two, ||She worked as part of the council with Tefris, but she later became the Scion of Dark and betrayed the council, possibly wiping them out in the process, which is the mistake she mentioned in her memories, and she joined Anathema to make up for the mistake of siding with the dark||

[rotund gust]

she’s bak’al, terfis is two. The queens blessing changes your gender

[exotic bough]

anathema explicitly mentions blessing two in her postraid dialogue

[warped cargo]

what if the real bak'al was the friends we made along the way?

[tepid blade]

||Well it could be possible that she left the Dark the same way Bak'al left Anathema||

[digital swan]

remember, we see spacefaring humyns
this indicates that at some point nuclear war occured on some other planet ("the old world") and a select few people survived to colonize wynn planet
while the survivors of the nuclear war were mutated into humyns

Old is from the old world and got left behind I bet

[tepid blade]

what???

[rotund gust]

i love that architect shows us some freakish person and then restitution is just a normal person

[wary lantern]

also

[digital swan]

mayb when we see Humyn home planet we might see One

[wary lantern]

very interestin that One(tempname prob wrong as shit) is Green

and mirrors two in most other ways

isnt green like

opposite of ourple

im stupid hang on

i have to check

yeah

[rotund gust]

Green is Blight color

Corruption is Red
Light is Yellow
Dark is people

[digital swan]

from the Ahmsord chef quest

[wary lantern]

magenta technically

but two is magenta

so

hmm

[digital swan]

we see the humyns who crashlanded on the moon

[tepid blade]

But how do the Humyn relate the Wynn?

[wary lantern]

i literally only connected that because color opposites are important in my shti im making lmao

ironically chaos and order magic symbolism

tho green is chaos for my shit

[tepid blade]

Also isn't it confirmed that Humans originated in Fruma?

[digital swan]

they're heavily mutated humans presumably
likely both Fruman humans and Humyns originated from a previous spacefaring human species

[wary lantern]

what the fuck are we even saying anymore

[digital swan]

on the Wynn planet

they probably landed in Fruma

[wary lantern]

i feel like trying to make sense of Humyn's is a surefire way to give the ct a collective aneurysm

[digital swan]

so yes originate from Fruma

[tepid blade]

where does it suggest that Humyn and Humans are in any way related??? Also a nuclear war on another "origin" planet feels a bit stretched

[wary lantern]

but yeah this is like

literaly just two, but with the mask split rotated, and the standout color inverted (#ff00ff magenta > #00ff00 green)

[digital swan]

we copyrighted our name with the Galactic Federation years ago unless these guys are copyright violators they're descended from Humans
with humyn probably being "human" transliterated poorly

[rotund gust]

Two pre-transition

tefris is deadname

[wary lantern]

very very interesting

[tepid blade]

Your fucking with me

[wary lantern]

even the sash thingy tied in the back

and also yea that green thing is a tie for their ponytail thingy

[digital swan]

I mean. The realm beasts are way too powerful for us right? so how do we beat them

[tepid blade]

by not destroying the world?

[digital swan]

we ask the humyns for help

[digital swan]

the gunship cavalry is coming to wynn

[wary lantern]

also probably not anything like pre-transition two, the mask rotation thing i dont think could work? two's mask clearly has like pins holding it in place on the black side, she couldnt just take it off i imagine

idk tho

[drifting aurora]

oh shit its tetris

[rotund gust]

pre-transition 2 is just a bit

[wary lantern]

tetris zeph'seyelash...

x3

i keep forgetting is it ethprilash or zephrilash

[drifting aurora]

ethprilash

[wary lantern]

ty

[gleaming apex]

Is this mythic shrine stuff?

[rotund gust]

their gonna shadow add another shrine and no ones gonna find it for weeks

[tepid blade]

yeah

[drifting aurora]

or something along those lines

[gleaming apex]

I haven't seen it yet

[drifting aurora]

this is the ideal i think

[gleaming apex]

Because I'm broke

[tepid blade]

I mean a new update just came out

[hexed birch]

the green colour is most certainly from tefris' connection to the earth element. he praises Tolos (earth god), his shrine has architect (earth mythic)

[shut hornet]

we could do this any time :)

[digital swan]

the humyns have space capable technology
it seems like the best bet for taking on two super powerful magical entities 20 quintillion times more powerful than us... is to combine humyn futuristic technology with gavellian advanced magic to create the most fucking powerful superweapon in the universe and slice up orphion

[tepid blade]

so it could have already happened

[rotund gust]

time to go scout everywhere for another shrine

[wary lantern]

torment

[rotund gust]

oh no

[wary lantern]

lol

at LEAST we know vaguely where some are likely to be

the old Riptide one was at fruma gate

[gleaming apex]

Please add it to the most unknown neglected corner of the map no one ever goes to

[wary lantern]

pre-arg gate but it was out in the very front so

most likely around there if it even is in fruma proper which i wonder about

[warped cargo]

we have some as of yet unexplained power that involves us being kinda empty inside. the spymaster shows it and briefly mentions it in ensemble of hope, and it might be the same emptiness shown in point of nor return also. i personally theorize its connected to the primordial void, but we just don't have enough on it to really know.

[tepid blade]

They where fucking with me earlier, so they know

[wary lantern]

unfortunately riptide is expensive as fuuuck

so i wont be able to help there

besides looking for it

wait

are both new wands water

nvm no

halcyon is rainbow

we good

its Riptide

and uh

Ascendency? i think

fire spear

not sure the bow

nothing like thats ever appeared yet

[gleaming apex]

Add it right outside Maltic. No one will ever find it

[wary lantern]

wait

no

both spears were

urghh

ok thats not the pattern

unless literally all 10 are gona get one

ok but ct when are we getting a Gaia shrine in that one dernel lootcave its in /j

[digital swan]

I mean surely however powerful we are, if we could imbue our magical prowess on something technological that is already way more powerful than simple humans, then surely the result is that many times more powerful
hell the ahmsordians can probably voidify technology if they study the ahms colossus
that thing has probably been exposed to so much void energy there's gotta be a way to figure out how to artificially do that to, say, a humyn battlecruiser

[wary lantern]

well a functioning one anyways, also im joking lmao

also im beginning to think the emptiness isnt our power

its something buried underneath it

its not like void could have a beast or any power

plane of influence scion is kinda goofy but idk not outruled?

[warped cargo]

hasn't like 95% of the ahms colossus fallen so deep into the void that nobody knows where it is?

[wary lantern]

we just have a First Guardian

...wait

that neon green on tetris...

jkjk

i will not bring homestuck into this

[digital swan]

wait what if we're actually Darth Nihilus from the Sith Triumvirate but we haven't figured it out yet

[rotund gust]

prediction time:

Halcyon is prob majin or university
Riptide i would say lake but restitution is already there. maybe fruma gate at ocean border
Vengeance… maybe the mistwoods fort? erodes all other thought fits changeling madness
Transfiguration maybe in soosu’s mansion? cause resonance weaver
Eschaton no idea, maybe somewhere with two?
Revolution at one of the rebellion bases
Ascendency we had but got removed
fate could be anywhere

wait i’m missing one

[warped cargo]

theres like a single foot left on one of the sky islands, thats why i say 95% instead of 100%

[digital swan]

there are pieces still visible in the void

[wary lantern]

we are Tefris Ethprilash /j

[digital swan]

the torso is in the outer void

for one

[rotund gust]

nvm no i’m not

[warped cargo]

ah, i hate navigating the void. so thats probably why i havent seen it

[digital swan]

it's visibly heavily corrupted with the blue veins turned black but clearly a colossus torso

[drifting aurora]

i'm glad you always have something very helpful to say

[wary lantern]

i mean still better than me even suggesting tefris is a homestuck reference as a joke lmao

[digital swan]

cmon I can hope at least one KOTOR fan will get the reference

[winged narwhal]

Halcyon's lore is very thematically appropriate because you can get very high stat lbender builds but at the cost of the most godawful playstyle known to Fruma

[drifting aurora]

majin blast, go

[warped cargo]

i don't even know how people who don't play one of the hyper mobile subclasses even navigate the void at all

[wary lantern]

thats the secret

we dont

[winged narwhal]

who needs a hyper mobile subclass when you can play mage

[wary lantern]

it is weird that we dont see any mention of some important dissapeared that could possibly be us

why the FUCK did they go so ham on us specifically

were we just That Fucking Annoying to oru

or were we just relevant in a way no one knew

we're either Tefris or the most fucking annoying piece of shit known to man

lol

[gleaming apex]

I'm just saying we could be a piece of something powerful that fell into the void. I think it would make sense for the void to have stripped away everything so thoroughly like it's described.

[wary lantern]

well tbf

the hole within us would make sense if we are some sort of homunculus deal (as in constructed person) considering Archi's lore

hm

[winged narwhal]

the player is clearly secretly the ahms colossus

[wary lantern]

whatever we are the queen is familiar with

so that does narrow it down ig

but BARELY

[rotund gust]

also worth nothing that the architect shrine has the 4 statues around it

[uneven basin]

Is there a mythic for each rune ?

[rotund gust]

maybe construct soldiers?

[wary lantern]

||given the whole shes a god who was looking at the world for fuck knows how long and broke out of her own damn realm to live in it and take part of it for herself thing, i doubt theres much she wouldnt know||

[wary lantern]

oh yeah good point

hm

[gleaming apex]

Here's a question: do we know what actually happened to the fruman gods? I don't remember

[wary lantern]

Archi's MId being a defensive and restorative buff with clones would fit with it being a homunculus/vessel kind of thing too

a backup

hm

[drifting aurora]

i eated them

sry

[wary lantern]

i mean

we see the ghost(?) of one

iirc

the fox thing

[digital swan]

I'd imagine at some point we'll figure out how the colossi work and check out their internal circuitry
and then we can pull the outer void colossus torso out, send it to either humyn or corkian techs to disassemble and study, figure out how to imbue any technological construct with void energy, and then we have the stage all set up
humyn spacefaring technology + gavellians to try and imbue void energy to them + wynn crew because let's be real wynn province humans are the most disposable brave people in the universe and nobody else in their right mind would volunteer to crew a ship that's been corrupted by void energy

[wary lantern]

its name is in old fruman

i dont think its translated yet but

[dry drift]

waoh

[wary lantern]

idk what this thing is

or where it spawns

but

[warped cargo]

i feel like the voidillagers and the dogun would have the best chance of understanding any of whats going on with the sky island colossus

[dry drift]

lootrun challenge i think

[wary lantern]

ah

[gleaming apex]

Has anyone translated it?

[wary lantern]

seems not

unless its not in doc

yeah no

[dry drift]

The doc lowkey outdated

[wary lantern]

urghhh

ofc it is

why cant we have one with suggest mode on

[dry drift]

idk i didnt make it 😄

[warped cargo]

do we even know where the colossi came from, or did they just kinda appear at some point a long ass time ago?

[digital swan]

yeah but idk if they would know how to combine that energy with technological constructs because gavellians aren't good with tech
we see that in llevigar
so presumably we'd need voidillager and corkian techs working together to figure if out
void experts and tech experts respectively

[formal bridge]

some random civilization we don't really know anything about made them

[digital swan]

dumb idea here but like with a sword that size they look like terraforming machines

[warped cargo]

they probably have a connection with Garaheth given that dogun creation myth has them being made by Garaheth out of the same material that the colossi are made of.

[formal bridge]

big bro collosi and their many little siblings of the dogun

[digital swan]

imagine if the corruption portal was opened earlier once, and these guys used colossi as terraforming machines to bury the portal and dig the ocean as a natural barrier
wynn may have been at one point an exclusion zone with that species then moving their things to the new north side of the new ocean and over millenia becoming villagers

[gleaming apex]

Actually, I wonder what would happen if you threw the Beasts into the void.

[exotic bough]

they kinda already are in the void iirc

[wary lantern]

yeah

[warped cargo]

theyd probably reform their respective domains around them, given they originate from the void

[wary lantern]

they just have a claim over parts

[exotic bough]

the realm of light and dark are just places in the void

[wary lantern]

hence the phrase "Light/Dark's Claim"

[warped cargo]

technically everywhere is a place in the void

[rich scarab]

https://forums.wynncraft.com/threads/a-gavellian-history-theory.313184/ kinda old and hella wild theory which (though a bit outdated) does attempt to explain the colossi (among many many other things)
not sure if there's been any huge cracks found with this theory, if so i havent heard of them, or how much people generally agree with it anymore but yea

[wary lantern]

and two mentions they have a pocket of void they were "given" in OtD

[gleaming apex]

Yeah but they can't travel through the neutral void can they? Because otherwise they wouldn't need to connect to our world in order to fight

[wary lantern]

holy wall

im braindead right now can i get a tldr

[digital swan]

It's a wild theory but I come up with crazy bullshit 24/7 this is on the tame end

[dim plover]

Hi I hear people talking about void stuff

[wary lantern]

wait if this is mentioning there being some huge war in old gavel

..isn't it mentioned, in OtD, that this is light and dark's second incursion?

War only appeared now, so itd explain war being new to villagers, it was only watching the first time.

o.o

oh my god and the forgery being

right in the middle

of gavel

hm.

[rich scarab]

ancient people combine nii, az, and ek
things go wrong (very wrong)
big war
in the aftermath, lots of defenses being made around gavel (i.e. big wall of mountains separating it from the ocean, ocean being riled up, colossi defending the only natural exit they left)

[wary lantern]

oh my god

was that fucking rune shit

why they found this plane??

did that unlock this world to light and dark??

GOD DAMNIT DISCORD WAKE TF UP

oh we back

[rich scarab]

quite possibly!

[wary lantern]

holy fucking shit

and the corrupted dungeons being placed there

[warped cargo]

my ownly crazy bullshit theories relate to the void, my most out there one that i think still has decent evidence for it is that something within the void is manipulating big S

[wary lantern]

oh my god

the cataclysm, chaos and order arriving and wiping everything out, an oddly strong parallel to both anathema's arrival and presence, and her final gambit

[warped cargo]

my evidence for that is that the silent expanse has an entire area named after and based around the void, and the nameless anomaly was created to remove chunks of existence leaving only void. neither of those line up with dern, but they do line up with something in service to the void itself.

[wary lantern]

ok im fully convinced now that light and dark's first incursion was the forgery cataclysmic war stuff

holy shit

how the only ones who knew of either were in gavel before it becamse more researched

[digital swan]

and basically like the ancestors of villagers opened the corruption portal, were totally unprepared, got basically shredded to oblivion, used a bunch of superweapons that probably made things worse (which probably includes the forgery since that has corrupted dungeons)
and when all that failed they set up a safe zone, cut a gigantic ditch in the world, filled it with water, and that's how the ocean was formed
as the final defense barrier after the precursor to villagers abandoned wynn province
plus they buried the portal too for bonus safety

[wary lantern]

i think less of opened the corruption portal, and moreso opened the door to other planes, and caught the eye of the last two gods you would ever want to notice you

i presume given its centralness and corruption vibe, that was the entry point

chained up

trying to seal them back away

light and dark's current gavel shenanigans are both north and south of it

[rich scarab]

yeah the combining of the runes and creation of the forgery could be the seal rather than the tear

[wary lantern]

oh maybe

i was saying it was the tear from which they both accessed the plane of influence

but perhaps yeah

[snow kiln]

Excuse fym the villagers 'made a ditch ' the size of he ocean

[wary lantern]

both, likely

[gleaming apex]

And then the forgery was an attempt to fix it?

[wary lantern]

im not sure

[warped cargo]

i think if there was an ancient civilization that spread that far it would've needed to spread even further over to wynn to explain the presence of ancient wynnic everywhere and also why big S speaks wynnic (and also gaelic, but thats because hes irish or something idk.)

[wary lantern]

i think it was both

it waas the site of the rift that let them in, and where they were cut off again

[drifting aurora]

big S is crazy

[digital swan]

oh no I'm talking about my idea from earlier relating to using the void soaked ahms colossus to void soak other tech

[wary lantern]

you have to seal a hole in the world at the source after all

huh

idk what u mean by that ngl

[warped cargo]

listen, i don't want to spoiler the name and i'm just taking the nickname of big E from 40k but changing it to S

[rich scarab]

i think this SD would suggest that the forgery was created by the runes being combined (seeing as it's "when" not "after"), and that it's sealing away the fracture

[wary lantern]

i think we're talking about entierely diff things rn

[drifting aurora]

no its good, i like it. its just funny

[digital swan]

from here down

[gleaming apex]

I do like the theory because it makes a bit of sense for why the Colossi would even need to exist

[snow kiln]

Actually this is a good point when will we get any real ancient ones lore?

[wary lantern]

yeah

[drifting aurora]

wdym by ancient ones

[wary lantern]

constructs to try to keep them both in relative submission

[digital swan]

oh you're talking about some forum post idk about that

[wary lantern]

to fight as well as youre even able against a god

[snow kiln]

People who built tcc

Do we have any hard lore for that?

[drifting aurora]

youve already gotten some crumbs. and we'll probably continue adding crumbs

just gradually

[snow kiln]

Yes this was my meaning good to hear

[gleaming apex]

New prediction: we tell the Canyon Colossus about the whole portal stuff and they come in from the top ropes with a steel chair to dunk on the Beasts

[wary lantern]

im talking about the theory that the ancient gavel Niiazek cataclysm was the first incursion, the first battle of the War of the Realms, the one Two talks of, where they were henceforth sealed until 0ap

[warped cargo]

the guys who made the ur runes for purely canonical, more theoretical but with some backing they also made the colossi, forgery, and were the original speakers of ancient wynnic

[hexed birch]

we got some stuff with their script

[rich scarab]

not really, but there's enough for that gavellian history theory and iirc we've only had extra support for that theory since

[snow kiln]

Actually how will story work after dern

[hexed birch]

i think the translations are on the wiki under dogunese?

[wary lantern]

or

hm

[snow kiln]

Will u go back to existing areas to add more story?

[wary lantern]

nah nvm

[rich scarab]

like the armory by the ancients talking about weapons made to fight forces beyond their control or smth?

[drifting aurora]

armory my beloved

[hexed birch]

it was baller (i love tunic)

[gleaming apex]

Yeah that theory actually makes really good sense, if you just replace "unknown cataclysm" with
"First war of the realms"

[drifting aurora]

i gotta add more of those. theyre just a bit of a hassle since we dont have a proper font (and likely never will)

[rich scarab]

https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Dogun_Script

"ARMORY / OF THE CREATION OF SUCH WEAPONRY AND CONSTRUCTS WHICH MAY BE UTILIZED IN OUR PERPETUAL ONGOING CONFLICT WITH FORCES BEYOND OUR CONTROL"

[gleaming apex]

Holy shit

[digital swan]

i'm talking about the theory that the predecessors to the villagers probably created the colossi as terraforming machines, since nothing else of that size would be necessary for any other purpose, and since the forgery exists both of them might have been superweapons against a previous corruption outbreak that devastated the entire world and led to the formation of the ocean using colossus terraforming machines as an anti-corruption barrier

[drifting aurora]

perpetual ongoing conflict with forces beyond our control

truth nuke

[snow kiln]

Terraforming machines?

[hexed birch]

right now my headcanon is that ||they were the ones to seal the portals shut, but the only basis is this text which isnt a whole lot||

[wary lantern]

i was just about to say, what if they made them to carve more land out of a mountain range

imagine they corkus'd it but actually incanon

aka moved the border out (by carving it using them)

[digital swan]

I think we had the exact same idea from two completely different and unrelated starting points
which means we're either both smart or both stupid

[snow kiln]

Wait is the moving mountains of cotl intended by the ancient ones?

[rich scarab]

it's not a whole lot but at the same time it's the most we have

[warped cargo]

i find beyond the grave's lore implications very funny. its probably not actually supposed to be canon, but the idea that anyone that died could just beat the crap out of whoever killed them and come back is really funny.

[gleaming apex]

Actually! If the ancient people actually did seal off Gavel from the rest of the world, who's to say they didn't do the same for the area around the Silent Expanse?

[hexed birch]

its also a little trippy how the doguns inhereted their language through 3 generations of creature (ancients -> tcc -> doguns)

[wary lantern]

i also wonder what the significance of there being Two colossi was

[drifting aurora]

yeah this is probably going to be changed. lol

[wary lantern]

one to fend off light, and one to fend off dark?

[drifting aurora]

Rather curious indeed

[snow kiln]

The olm sealed of se

[digital swan]

my thought was they created two to terraform the world faster with the ahms one probably being a more unstable and smaller prototype design

[wary lantern]

prob?

[drifting aurora]

the doguns are my favorite little guys

[wary lantern]

i think they were multipurpose at least

[gleaming apex]

I mean as in actually create the mountains around it. Did the olm do that?

[wary lantern]

they wouldnt need weaponry if they werent also a defence mechanism

[snow kiln]

Likely not?

[winged narwhal]

How geologically plausible is Wynn, anyways

[wary lantern]

maybe they were a like, gambit by gavel precursor civ

[snow kiln]

Not at all lmfao

[rich scarab]

probably one to shuffle the canyon to stop influence from getting through (think of how there's barely any light influence beyond the canyon and the dernmites are outright stated (iirc) to be destroyed by the shifting canyon), and the other to act as a last line of defence to more directly prevent stuff from getting to the jofash opening

[drifting aurora]

the answer is dont think about it too much

[warped cargo]

they would've placed the other one near the not yet silent expanse then, because the portals were there since the planes of influence first connected with the world, they just weren't active

[wary lantern]

where they gave up on the land the Beasts were battling over

and dug into the east range

hence them seeming to be straggling around Ahms most recently before gone

and how the canyon so effectively stops BOTH influences

[snow kiln]

Oh yeas this seems plausible, esp if they were around for the light portal opening hmm

[wary lantern]

the colossi were made to create their safe zone

[winged narwhal]

what about the gylia statue

[rich scarab]

note also that the colossi react very strongly to the portals opening in 0AP

[wary lantern]

to create a new land, and continue keep light and dark out of it

[tepid blade]

Ask Trashie what he feels about this quest 🙂

[wary lantern]

exactly

and the discovery

[snow kiln]

Lmao weren't they ranting about it literally yesterday xD

[wary lantern]

where its made explicit that the canyon DOES NOT LIKE anything of darkness

[warped cargo]

mostly not possible, though you could argue that the entirety of the world is a massive fjord

[tepid blade]

They ranted about it today again

[gleaming apex]

Wait a second. HOLY Shit! If the Colossi were created to guard against the light and dark. And we know they can fracture a region into the void. What if there was a Colossus next to the Dern Portal, and that's why it's just floating above the void

[snow kiln]

Ofc ofc 😂

[wary lantern]

and there is no light or decay or anything at cotl or eastward

[hexed birch]

maybe wind fortress falling into the void kinda got the good ending, out of reach of the influences

[wary lantern]

the portal void is confirmed tna's doing

greg got hungry

and still is

til we murder it

[gleaming apex]

We know the holes around the SE are because of Greg, but couldn't the huge void the Dern Portal is in could be from something else

[warped cargo]

the lack of a colossi at the dern portal is what really makes me think thats not what the colossi were originally made for

[wary lantern]

..in a way, greg is big S's attempt to imitate the old civ's collosi to its benefit if my theory is right

[hexed birch]

i dont think there necessarily was a 3rd colossus, but the ancient gavellians seemingly had some contact with the olm. the wynn plains guardian is a (slightly inferior) replica of the gavel protectors

[wary lantern]

???

[snow kiln]

Big S 😭

[wary lantern]

this isnt about the current war

[hexed birch]

id also wager eo might have been built to guard the location the dark portal was anchored but thats a guess

[wary lantern]

this is about the first one

the portals are now REpoening

there was a prior incursion. this is about my theory that the Forgery Incident was their first incursion

[warped cargo]

the portals were always in those places though, they just got reopened by the elves messing everything up

[wary lantern]

as two says

[snow kiln]

Yes but the olm were technically inferior in every way cause humans are pathetic :D

[wary lantern]

they were not limited to their portals before

they could roam

they could fight freely

until they were sealed away again

lost their connections

[gleaming apex]

Yeah wasn't that the portals could move around before

[rich scarab]

i dont think there's any evidence of the rune civ ever having prescence in wynn, else that gavellian history theory almost certainly would've mentioned it (that thing was damn thorough)

[digital swan]

0%
this is why I suggested the colossi were terraforming machines

[wary lantern]

had to build their power, and wear through again

[tepid blade]

Okay a question about the elves opening the portals, would closing the light portal or sealing away Orphion remove the elves immortality?

[gleaming apex]

Probably yeah

[wary lantern]

almost certainly

[warped cargo]

ya

[tepid blade]

got it

[warped cargo]

they deserve it though

[snow kiln]

Shellfish bastards

[wary lantern]

the elves r gonna be PISSED when we inevitably have to mirk big O

[snow kiln]

For sure

[wary lantern]

lol

[gleaming apex]

Maybe the mountains surrounding the SE were created by the same ancient civilization

[hexed birch]

(olinus)

[wary lantern]

thankfully it seems dern doesnt really have any supporters lol no one will miss it

[wary lantern]

pffft

[digital swan]

I support dern

[snow kiln]

I dunno the olm seem to have a think for being surrounded by Mountain

[tepid blade]

Because I was thinking, that when the story does get around to us sealing away or in some other way defeating the beasts, would the elven government help us, or attempt to stop us

[warped cargo]

wynnic excavation i think and also bak'al(fraud'al)

[wary lantern]

i mean maybe the olm were the dark equivalent of elves

[wary lantern]

maybe thats why big s olmnapped em

[drifting aurora]

the darkness just wants to reshape everything to be perfect. that doesnt seem so bad

[rotund gust]

oh hey bud

[wary lantern]

but i doubt it

[snow kiln]

Time valley* and the troms olm refuge were both surrounded by Mountains

[digital swan]

oh this was in the meme lore doc

[wary lantern]

?

also i think the olm just knew a lot and dern wanted to steal their knowledge so it had more advantage

[snow kiln]

Yeah and id get to be in seph's big kink dungeon. Who wouldn't want that ???

[wary lantern]

given what we see in WE they really did not like the dark

[hexed birch]

this might have been the plan at some point, one of the olm churches literally has the old element symbol of darkness on the floor, but im not sure if this is canon anymore (especially considering the element and its symbol arent)

[wary lantern]

i really doubt they liked it

ohh shit neat

which church

[gleaming apex]

Actually, the Fruman gods are each heavily related with a certain rune right

[wary lantern]

also what

[hexed birch]

the one with elphaba in the quest

[wary lantern]

darkness sigil is v much still canon

its in the corru cache along with lights

[snow kiln]

Fruman what?

[hexed birch]

yeah the sigil

the elemnent symbol is a black donut with holes in it

[wary lantern]

tho i didnt notice that was what that was

[tepid blade]

My personal theory is that the Dark had a chance to make the Olm it's version of the elves, but was to impatient and decided to wipe them out now rather than later, unlike the Light which decided to subjugate the elves instead, playing the long game

[hexed birch]

which is not canon anymore

[wary lantern]

ohhh the element one

i thought it was just a fancy floor

thats not the sigil

[hexed birch]

but it obv was canon when the church build was made

but its less convincing nowadays thatn it was then

[wary lantern]

sigils more like this

[hexed birch]

yeah

[snow kiln]

This does make me wonder, how much of the story is planned ahead?

[hexed birch]

that things too new to appear in any se builds

[wary lantern]

i also love how the war sigil is the combination of light and darks sigils

very clever

[snow kiln]

Cause that darkness retcon is massive

[wary lantern]

ah

hm

well tbf

[digital swan]

the one joke lore doc where orphion and db were once human are are both larping as gods using insanely powerful magic? orphion created elves as playthings and had them worship him because he's insanely conceited and db created olm for the same reason, got bored, and started killing them

?

[wary lantern]

i guess being fucking kidnapped and corrupted would sour anyones opinion on someone

so maybe they were

idk

[wary lantern]

lol ah

pfft

[hexed birch]

for now its more of a fun tidbit, the lore couldve been rewritten

[tepid blade]

Right now, probably a lot more that what it was in a long time, I don't think they planned the Light being evil in RoL

[digital swan]

i don't have the doc on me I thought you would

[wary lantern]

ive never heard of that lmao

[gleaming apex]

So each fruman god is associated with an element and it's rune right?

[wary lantern]

why would i ask if i didnt 😭

[snow kiln]

Yes it certainly didn't feel like light was evil

Rol rewrite gonna come in clutch tho

[digital swan]

multiple joke lore docs exist presumably

[wary lantern]

ngl the elves always did give big cult vibes

neat to see that reinforced

[gleaming apex]

So what if they helped in the first realm war thing

[snow kiln]

Every elf deserved what happened to them, lari especially

[tepid blade]

Right now though, my theories about the quest are that the light was faking everything, playing the long game

[wary lantern]

well yeah

it plays at divinity and help and stuff

to get an advantage

[formal bridge]

I think even outside of RoL, orphion had never done anything excessively cruel like Dern does

[wary lantern]

its been made pretty clear

[split night]

Orphion have foresight after all
he just, could have god tier planning

[snow kiln]

Yes this done seem reasonable, but going from rol to furma it isn't obvious if u only play the main story.

[formal bridge]

orphion doesn't make a forest of eyeballs stolen from people

[hexed birch]

orphion for sure didnt 'miscomunnicate' to the elves when they chopped the tree down and let him into our world anymore with the new info we have, if you ask me

[wary lantern]

yeah

[rich scarab]

orphion is just hella weak rn

[wary lantern]

he tricked them into freeing him

[snow kiln]

Instead he's smart and makes immortal slaves to do his bidding 😭

[formal bridge]

I mean even before that we've literally never heard of him doing something cruel

[split night]

So far, the only thing that is mildly "evil" he have done was send an obelisk that suck people soul in and protect them from being consume by dark

[rotund gust]

ok i checked some important areas i don't think theres any new shrines

[gleaming apex]

Except they don't lmao elves are so useless

[rotund gust]

unless theres one in aelumia i didn't run through it yet

[formal bridge]

the worst thing he did was probably tricking the elves into cutting down the tree

[wary lantern]

and they were like "oh shit" and he was like "wait no please keep worshipping me uhhh yea youu uhhh misinterpreted!! thats why shit got bad really fast. i definitely didnt want this. anyways light is awesome isnt it am i right"

[hexed birch]

tricked them and then he either blamed them for the badness of decay etc on them, or in their zealosy they started blaming themselves

[snow kiln]

That's cause he was clean with it and didn't leave a trace to get people to continue to worship him and do his bidding ;)

[formal bridge]

Definitely the latter

[rich scarab]

not directly but if we're correct about niiazek being orphion, that'd definitely be something cruel by him

[split night]

not really?
I thought it was clear that he warn the elves not to cut it, and the elves just kinda misinterpret it

[formal bridge]

I don't see orphion gaslighting the elves about it being their fault

[formal bridge]

Which we hear from the elders who are obv going to blame themselves over it

[tepid blade]

My theory, is that the light wanted to use us to get rid of Lari, while she was serving him in spirit, but not in action, making her loose end, and he only need her around to repair the realm of light, and didn't have us kill Lari because it would be waste of his power

[dim plover]

Is Tasim’s alt route added yet

[digital swan]

I think that was pretty much the point of the entire doc
caricature anything and everything for being the assholes they are

[quartz cobalt]

Sorry im new here, whO is big S?

[wary lantern]

was Az the air or water one btw

[rich scarab]

have you dont wtp yet?

[drifting aurora]

it'll be in changelog

[split night]

The fault was the first elders too, they didn't even got paid for their crime, the second elders just kinda here to protect this secret as well xd

[gleaming apex]

Have you finished fruma?

[quartz cobalt]

aH i haven't yet

[wary lantern]

i forgort

i know i was told but it was in beta spoiler chat

[quartz cobalt]

planning to tonight

[tepid blade]

I don't think Orphion would let the elves see that cutting down a magic tree would give them immortality unless he wanted them to do it

[quartz cobalt]

i shall get my answer then lolol

[rich scarab]

should probably get on that. there's often unmarked spoilers in this channel btw

[snow kiln]

Oh damn new hotfix dropped an hour ago

[digital swan]

shame I can't fucking find it
might have been deleted

[wary lantern]

of az and uth which was air and which was water

help

[gleaming apex]

Well if you don't want spoilers maybe leave until then lol

[drifting aurora]

what imagery is attached to Atlahas

[hexed birch]

wa'uh

[wary lantern]

atlahas uh

wh

fox

[azure tangle]

ive still not been in fruma yet. been waiting on it lol.

[wary lantern]

fox ghost(?)

uh

[split night]

No??
the tree didn't give them the immortality, the spread of its remain did
you don't notice how the first elders died?

[warped cargo]

no matter how S looks i can already tell it's gender goals. and i have no issue with being in dommy (me friends and i had a full discussion on the gender neutral version of daddy/mommy uses sexually, and we settled on dommy) Seph's kink dungeon.

[wary lantern]

air..? is air right? am i stupid

wait no it was water wasnt it

uh

hold on

i forget where to find the dialogue

[hexed birch]

air = uth = big white owl god sasshahuth

[split night]

It was explained by the second elders that the first elders die because the magic of RoL haven't settled in after the cutting of treesus

[wary lantern]

ok ty

[snow kiln]

@drifting aurora sephanis better be incredibly hot btw, like when oda dropped imu and everyone went at it for pretty boy. We need this, it's been 15 years WE NEEDA BADDY.

[wary lantern]

az water then

[hexed birch]

yeah

[wary lantern]

nii - fire - red
az - water - blue
ek - thunder - yellow

[drifting aurora]

man i gotta get around to this dialogue rewrite cause this is so silly

[dim plover]

Alright

[tepid blade]

Well they knew that cutting down the tree would give them immortality (or technically amortality), at least I think

[dim plover]

I can't wait to finally enter Fruma

[wary lantern]

wonder why it was 3 of 5

and what the order exactly means

[snow kiln]

Have fun

[wary lantern]

we know the orc changed effects of rune magics by rearranging

so the order matters

[warped cargo]

given that according to sui said corruption looked like the elements to her, do you think the old gods were actual gods?

[wary lantern]

which makes sense given its the code of reality

[dim plover]

Well, I'm waiting for the alt route to be added first

[snow kiln]

Oh

[split night]

They don't know that...?
The second elders just deduct from it and them being immortals
When was the last time you done this quest xd

[dim plover]

So I haven't actually been to Fruma in live yet

[drifting aurora]

worth noting- az as an item was made before rune lore was fully conceptualized and detailed. the lore has been retrofitted to fit in but just keep that in mind

[wary lantern]

niiazek does something that seemed to result in the realms finding us and getting in

[gleaming apex]

So if the old gods were each related to a rune, and the runes were used to fix the mistake in Gavel, did they help seal the beasts during the first War of the Realms

[wary lantern]

ah

wait is az the only mention of niiazek being the forgery summon

[hexed birch]

corruption isnt an element, it was just tangled within the air like them, but we do see a literal spirit fox who is associated with atlahas so idk

[tepid blade]

I have a memory of an insect, but like about two months ago

[hexed birch]

it might be real

[burnt zodiac]

🦊

[hexed birch]

everything else is written in texts as mythos though

[rich scarab]

there's also the forgery SD that mentions the runes being combined

[wary lantern]

also it probably matters how theyre used

no way no ones just accidentally combined them

[split night]

but yeah like, the quest specifically said in the cutscene that Orphion warn them to not cut the treesus, yet they do and he banned them from entering the RoL
and then blessed Lari because she opposed to the cutting

[wary lantern]

it has to have been something specific or there would be countless fucking incidents from rune researchers accidentally invoking it

we dont know how 'charging' runes works either

[digital swan]

is the cthulu mythos canon in wynn

[wary lantern]

a theory i have is the crystals are rune stuff

[gleaming apex]

So like maybe the old gods helped/possibly sacrificed themselves to seal away the Beasts the first time

[rich scarab]

Az lore says about nii, az, and ek being combined and causing mass destruction
forgery SD mentions "the runes" being combined creating the forgery sealing away a rift in spce and time

[wary lantern]

unfathomably potent clusters of rune magic so powerful it crystallized

[split night]

i haven't see any king who happen to be yellow so idk yet

[warped cargo]

she just explained it as being very similiar to the other elements, and given that she could naturally see it and also naturally see the elements it seems to me that corruption atleast behaves in a very similiar maner as the elements

[wary lantern]

and we know strong magic can crystallize/manifest, Weirds are a good example AND tied to similar ideas too

so

[hexed birch]

yeah the dialogue kinda gives that impression

[tepid blade]

Okay a question I do have about that quest is how old would Lari have been, at least a young adult right? because she was called young or something like that by the elders

[wary lantern]

nii - fire - red
az - water - purple
uth - air - blue
ek - thunder - yellow
tol - earth- green
maybe

[snow kiln]

Wait where did y'all see this fruma god shabang

[wary lantern]

we know a blue crystal exists and WE just didnt find it since it was in the damn void

[snow kiln]

I literally haven't heard or seen this till now

[drifting aurora]

||Sui: The strands. I've been- I've been seeing them for a while, I just... didn't bring it up, because, ha, we had, um, more important, things, going on-
Sui: Everything has them. They're not, um, unaffected by the- the raging ocean, but it's more like... like they are the ocean, and- and-
Rex: Sui, calm down. You're talking too fast.
Sui: I could recognize five of them. I- I usually pull on blue and sometimes white, for my- my magic, but- but- but anyway, there was a sixth I could feel but couldn't see, and-
Sui: ...and it's that. Right there. That's the sixth, and- and you're saying it's... the Queen?||

[wary lantern]

unless that was a goofy ass decision that they wanna retcon but

for now ill treat it as canon

[drifting aurora]

wait

this is the wrong dialogue

[gleaming apex]

Well given how the runes needed to be in a certain sequence with the resonance weaver, it could've been like a 1000 long sequence of the runes strung together

[drifting aurora]

why is the wiki wrong

stupid wiki

[wary lantern]

true

yeah

ur prob right yeah

[split night]

Yeah she is young adult, similar to Soosu, her age got paused by immortality and never grew older
that is why she act like a young adult sometimes because she is one

[hexed birch]

wasnt the line rewritten at some point? probably an old version on the wiki?

[wary lantern]

lol the resonance weaver really is just a command block huh

[drifting aurora]

yeah it was

[warped cargo]

so what are the known names of the old gods?

[wary lantern]

i wonder why it cant be re-made

probably the red orb is something from corruption

that acts as a power source

so you can chain any amount of runes as you need on top

[hexed birch]

atlahas, tolos, nifilis, sasshahuth, nasaheksh

[tepid blade]

Well I imagine her being at least in her mid to late 20s, as the immortality of the elves did take some time to settle in if I remember the quest correctly, so still young, but a bit older than she would have been in the quest

[wary lantern]

and thats why it stopped working

[snow kiln]

It's old magic that bak'al knew

[wary lantern]

because the 'battery' was exhausted

[gleaming apex]

Wasn't it because Bak'al helped make it and he you know left

[wary lantern]

true ig

but it also stopped working right as ana says

[drifting aurora]

||Sui: The strands. I've been- I've been seeing them for a while, I just... didn't bring it up, because, ha, we had, um, more important, things, going on-
Sui: Everything has them. They're not, um, unaffected by the- the raging ocean, but it's more like... like they are the ocean, and- and-
Rex: Sui, calm down. You're talking too fast.
Sui: I could recognize five of them. I- I usually pull on blue and sometimes white, for my- my magic, but- but- but anyway, I can see them, red-blue-green-white-yellow, but-
Sui: But it's not just them, there- there was always something else, s-something different, something I could feel but couldn't see, and- a-and-
Sui: ...and it's that. Right there. That's the s-something, and- and you're saying it's... the Queen?||

[split night]

she got blessed directly

[drifting aurora]

ok theres the correct dialogue

[wary lantern]

hence getting soosu to upgrade it

[snow kiln]

Probably just old and planned obscelesence by bakal

[tepid blade]

Well there is the question of when did she get blessed, unless that is known

[gleaming apex]

Or maybe it needs maintenance or something

[wary lantern]

im thinking the orb is a power source, like a magical battery they burnt out by making the form, that was needed to be repaired

yeah

[drifting aurora]

this to me does not actually imply corruption works similar to the elements

[snow kiln]

Well we d have to know what yusanu did to it to make it work again

[split night]

sometime in 0AP
the cutscene literally said that what
she just kinda wandering into the treesus remain after its cutting sometime in 0 AP

[gleaming apex]

Yeah it seemed clear to me that corruption was something separate

[wary lantern]

whos saying it didnt alr do that

[rich scarab]

yeah that seems rewritten specifically to make it no longer sound like corruption is an element

[hexed birch]

i would assume the fix is the whole brass construction around the original core

[wary lantern]

its probably just long chains of runes aka more powerful and specific things it cant do rn

[tepid blade]

ah, I see it on the wiki, it does say that the parasite appeared around 0 AP

[drifting aurora]

this happened shortly after the quest released on beta because ppl were getting the wrong impression yes

[wary lantern]

its constantly on low power mode

[warped cargo]

to me it reads as corruption being something similar but not being an element.

[snow kiln]

Oh ig, maybe just needed to recharge her body and she forgot the manual

[azure tangle]

it reads like corruption being a battery that boosts the elements

[split night]

Damn, S really didn't wait to do some weird stuff with Orphion huh

[tepid blade]

nope

[wary lantern]

wut

[rich scarab]

it reads as being "s-something different" to me

[warped cargo]

the fact that sui's immediate reaction was bringing up the element strands and saying that while she couldn't see corruption like the elements she could feal it makes me think its not the same but similiar

[gleaming apex]

My current vibes based theory is that the old elemental gods helped seal away the Beasts in the past

[cunning geode]

can you tell all the ct to stop rewriting dialogue so I don't have to update it

[rich scarab]

yeah i think similar but distinctly different

[snow kiln]

Dude what are these elemental gods what SD is this 😭

[shut hornet]

she is the one rewriting the dialogue so

[drifting aurora]

no

[rich scarab]

different things that both happen to have a link to manaweaving i think

[drifting aurora]

also i did this before release

[hexed birch]

old fruman translations, mainly in buried records

[uneven basin]

The library in the highlands

[gleaming apex]

It's all in ancient fruman so that's why you probably don't know much about them

[snow kiln]

Ah

[cunning geode]

😔

[snow kiln]

I haven't read the doc yet, should do so

[drifting aurora]

you should expect beta dialogue to change

[warped cargo]

i'm having a bit of a theory that maybe something that makes something a god is a corresponding type of magic, darkness is said to be another element at the start of the quest you do to get into silenet expanse, but sui doesn't see darkness so it isn't the same as the other elements, there are old gods tied to the 5 elements, and corruption behaves similiar to the elements but isnt the same.

[drifting aurora]

i will say you should disregard darkness being an element

it's in game, but it's incorrect information

[rich scarab]

darkness being an element is outdated and will be changed

[azure tangle]

Dren in shambles

[warped cargo]

i wonder if that would mean there's a yet unseen cosmic god.

[split night]

It's not canon, Light and Dark aren't element

[azure tangle]

whos got the image

[gleaming apex]

I think the elemental gods maybe opposed the Beasts back before they were sealed away

[warped cargo]

i suspected they weren't actually elements given sui cant see them, but i imagine they also behave similar to elements. even if out dated lore i imagine it's still something similar to what there is now

[digital swan]

https://tenor.com/view/cillianmurphygun-cillianmurphy-jazmincoded-gif-3811002643797340103

[winged narwhal]

Wait there are elemental gods?

[hexed birch]

yeah

[gleaming apex]

Yeah

[hexed birch]

old fruman gods

[exotic bough]

in old fruman mythos

[azure tangle]

i would say they (light and dark) would be similar to the corruption but she doesnt sense them like she does corruption so maybe not

[exotic bough]

idk if thats just myth or if they actually did exist

[snow kiln]

I mean these elemental gods could've very well just be very strong magic users

[dim plover]

They don’t behave similar to elements

[azure tangle]

i mean there could be multiple something eleses

[warped cargo]

could just be that we are actively in an area that has a massive magical beacon of war energy sitting in the center

[hexed birch]

they were all animals though

[snow kiln]

The same way how most modern gods and tales are based on a real thing or event but then just exaggerated over time

[hexed birch]

i suppose

[winged narwhal]

I mean the five elements could just be an inherent property of the world

That’s what I’d lean towards

[snow kiln]

Yeah it could just be symbolism

[winged narwhal]

Current evidence doesn’t have any of these five elements doing corruption like the other realms

[snow kiln]

Yea I dont think the beasts are elemental

[gleaming apex]

Well yeah presumably these gods are something different to the beasts

[warped cargo]

do you have a backing to that? given that sui can feel but not see corruption, like she can see the other elements, and that her first thought when seeing corruption visualized is bringing up the elemental strands, there is evidence for influence forces working sorta like elements.

[snow kiln]

Seeing that they don't even live on the material workd

[snow kiln]

I mean they changed to dialogue to make it explicitly clear that it isn't like the 5 elements

[warped cargo]

my current beginnings of a theory is that all magic is somewhat similar and each god has their own domain of magic, the elemental gods could've just been very closely connected so they share the same magic family.

[azure tangle]

its because they arent material girls

[snow kiln]

This could be, but it's just head cannon with what we're working with.

[digital swan]

according to lexnt it's offically not supposed to act like other elements and the stuff that suggests it is like other elements is incorrecr and will be updated

[warped cargo]

they changed it to make it so it doesn't read like corruption is an element itself, not to make it read like corruption isn't similiar in any way. sui wouldn't have even brought up the elemental strands if there was no connection.

[warped cargo]

it's head cannon with a backing, aka a theory.

[snow kiln]

Not much backing 😭

[snow kiln]

That's what I said.

[drifting aurora]

this is about darkness being an element

[digital swan]

close enough

[warped cargo]

while it would take a good bit to fully prove it, there is something that if we ever learn about would give heavy credence to the theory. that is if we ever get lore on a cosmic god. because currently cosmic magic is the magic that doesn't fit into this theory, its canonically a different type of magic from elemental magic, but doesn't as of yet have a god that corrosponds to it.

[snow kiln]

We may hopefully get hints when the next books in the university are written

Maybe.

[warped cargo]

not really. i never said darkness was an element, i was just saying that the text in game seems to support darkness behaving somewhat similiar to an element. and she said that what she said was about darkness not being an element, not disproving that it isn't at all similiar

[warped cargo]

if we do than i'm going to have atleast a bit of an "i told you so" moment. i wan't be mean about it, but still.

[snow kiln]

We'll see ;)

But we definitely won't get any god mentions in library cause queen would erase that. But we may get hints of it's existence

[warped cargo]

i think if we were going to in fruma it would be from majin or his castle, given that he is currently doing cosmic magic stuff

[lusty glacier]

is queen aware of everything in the kingdom though?

[real onyx]

So in the end what was the point of the tournametn at the start of the fruma questline?

[gleaming apex]

To find someone with the right qualities the queen wanted

[warped cargo]

flavor text for the libray says that everything should be taken with a grain of salt, so presumably the queen indirectly oversees whats in it.

[slim belfry]

that's why she has spies

I think she can feel anything that happens but can't specifically tell what

[lusty glacier]

was two the only one who knew of the queen?

[warped cargo]

i think thats more of the spymaster's thing

[real onyx]

what was the whole point of spymaster existing in the storyline

dude was just fucking useless

[slim belfry]

I'm saying the queen because the entire province is literally soaked in her influence

[slim belfry]

she just does her own thing

[real onyx]

could have removed her from the whole storyline and nothing changes

all she did was add dialogue of "je donc je suis" philosophy bullshit and called it a day

fruma could have been out 2 years ago if they didn't make this spymaster character

[slim belfry]

yeah but then we wouldnt have any lore clearing some things up

[real onyx]

what did it clear up that I missed?

I remember there was talk with majin about a some bigger world pictures but I didn't quite understand

when we visited majin in his mansion

[signal bough]

how useful will an extremely censored library be anyways

[slim belfry]

that

[signal bough]

shouldn't have broken the mold smh. Should've been a secret library, part of a public one

[warped cargo]

explained the queens reason for not being in charge of war, explained that queen was war before the literal last quest in the game telling you, showed the outcome of light infection which we haven't seen before, introduced the lore on us having power from being empty in some way, also introduced how the entire world won't actually be fucked if we kill the queen because she believes that we could hypothetically deal with the war of influence instead of requiring her, and introduces big S currently having a yet unknown thing that gives dern a major leg up in the war.

[winged narwhal]

Without sovereign two who will aurafarm and loredump

[slim belfry]

nobody

[warped cargo]

https://klipy.com/gifs/morgan-freeman-true-4

[warped cargo]

she also was the one who actually told us why tasim was chosen over us as sovreign

[winged narwhal]

Who will be mistakenly seen as having a thigh gap?

[signal bough]

Maijin or Gikyo

[warped cargo]

idk, but sui 100% has massive thighs. she eats a lot, yet her picture is shown being relatively thin. that weight has to be going somewhere. shes def built like a pixar mom.

[winged narwhal]

I didn’t need to read that

[wary lantern]

what the fresh hell did i come in to

[real onyx]

shi ig i have to read and understand

[warped cargo]

you cant say im wrong though

[silk bronze]

dawg 😭😭

[winged narwhal]

We were discussing what Two brings to Fruma and I made a joke about the thigh gap thing

[warped cargo]

i speak only truth, even if it is truth you do not wish to hear

[winged narwhal]

And shrimp decided to share that

[warped cargo]

i am the door that always tells the truth

[winged narwhal]

Could sui not just have a fast metabolism

[dense saddle]

any1 know the lore behind ragni king? is he just a cool dude?

[slim belfry]

ragni king is a person

[dense saddle]

lol all i could find on him too

[warped cargo]

is she powering an entire city?

[rich scarab]

he's the beast of the indomitable human villager spirit

[dense saddle]

now my headcannon thx

[rich scarab]

he secretly gave bob a blessing

[exotic bough]

uh

[winged narwhal]

How much do you think she eats?

[signal bough]

Cave Spider? What next? Chic...

[winged narwhal]

Plenty of people just eat a lot and stay relatively thin

[slim belfry]

me

I have a black hole for a stomach

[warped cargo]

that is actually fair, its just like 40% of her personality before she locked in was being a glutton.

[brittle prism]

hes a racial minority

he is the race

[warped cargo]

there are a lot of villagers in wynn, are they even a minority?

[brittle prism]

he is the only villager

[rich scarab]

isnt that literally just the bread scene

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1076545160583839884/1478539541735407760/Sui_Nom.gif

[brittle prism]

wasnt she just good at cooking

[rich scarab]

she was a cook but i dont think she ever feasted much besides the bread

[warped cargo]

no, she also regularly ate a lot at some restaurant in auburn, and a good bit of other dialogue about eating a lot