📚lore_discussion

[drifting aurora]

5 elements

[mossy badge]

Ye there's literally war in the weave

And light and dark

[drifting aurora]

but these are not elements

explicitly

[mossy badge]

[hybrid gazelle]

we already git like 5 runes did not we

[mossy badge]

Least confusing lore

[drifting aurora]

theyre not even threads/strands actually

theyre something else

[mossy badge]

Ok whatever they hold power

[drifting aurora]

or maybe im misremembering how ensemble describes it

[hybrid gazelle]

nah you are right

they are not even strand I think

SZui just keep mentioning this like

another one

that entirely different

soosu mention it too

[mossy badge]

But but the blacksmith in AJF!!

[drifting aurora]

explodes

[hybrid gazelle]

Even before Assemble, Soosu make it clear that it none of the element

also fuck I just realize

that we literally like

have one rune that dont use in raid LOL

[mossy badge]

W forgery

[slim belfry]

=(

[hybrid gazelle]

it so weird beucase like

[slim belfry]

I hate seeing this

[mossy badge]

But in dern it might be different

[hybrid gazelle]

I feel like you could just use Nii rune for osmething here

[ashen relic]

WTP icon when

[mossy badge]

Nol

🤯

[hybrid gazelle]

Please let WTP be drawn by other artists

like at least outsource someone in the community

[drifting aurora]

i think we have an icon already

[hybrid gazelle]

awesome

[mossy badge]

Yo bro ts is disrespectful, wym u dont like our goat

I hope its the same artist

I hope they've drawn a beatiful skipper

[hybrid gazelle]

NGL I feel like you could use album art and try to like

tinker it to be new raid icon

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVWn4yVBuhY&list=RDZVWn4yVBuhY&start_radio=1

[mossy badge]

Nah this looks better 🔥

[hybrid gazelle]

My live playthrough for amongst the mist

I have no issue with the chapter

so I do wish it has 3 main questline like other district

but overall it fine

[silk ravine]

Dullahan was meant to be a raid boss in the original 1.14 gavel update

[hybrid gazelle]

Good fucking god that nver happen

this is realdy public knowledge when gavel dev blog was out

[silk ravine]

OG Dullahan was a very different character to current Dullahan

I don’t see how current Dullahan can be a raid boss, but if they do rework ROL for the third time perhaps he could be the Nii rune raid boss

[stray karma]

Nah Nii rune raid bosses must be three knights

[hybrid gazelle]

I think it will be fine if Dullahan is not a raid boss

literally dullahan as character better serve as quest boss that push the story

this is like a soverign in Fruma become a raid mid way through the stoyr LOL

oh god imagine ||gikyo raid||

[silk ravine]

Like I said Dullahan in his current state doesn’t make sense as the raid boss, he’s not the main boss guy in his quest line

[regal spire]

In all honesty, dullahan doesn’t need to be a dungeon, a raid, or a boss altar. Dullahan should just be a quest boss, separate of RoL3

[silk ravine]

Agreed

[drowsy crown]

If only we've got the Karoc Quarry raid

[regal spire]

Karoc needed to exist

[hybrid gazelle]

I think Dullahan should be madetory for the story IF the story take into more direction into wanting to develop Lari

which I think it will

[regal spire]

That one bums me out a ton

[hybrid gazelle]

like

if ROL rewrite will focus on Lari

then YES

Dullahan have to be madetory

if it not then no

but I highly dbout ROL rewrite will not focus on Lari

only thing that stopping Karoc raid from existing is probably that the ystill want NOTG to be first raid

[regal spire]

I really like the idea of there being secret bosses, separate of boss altars, tied to completing a single quest. I could see Dullahan having its own ??? Style start, where you look for clues from RoL’s depiction of Lari (if a rewrite goes deeper into her specifically), and using said info to unlock his seal

[hybrid gazelle]

The reason I think Dullahan should be madetory is because he should be the wheel to push Lari's character arc

because this is like

this is like ||turning Gikyo into secret boss||

he should be important and main character of the story

and not exist in side line

[regal spire]

I think it’s closer to what Deraj’s sovereign will be, tbh

[hybrid gazelle]

we dont know wasteland story yet

[regal spire]

Only problem is Dullahan is kinda important

[hybrid gazelle]

||it likely that it will have its own quest||

[regal spire]

As of now, at least, we know its side content

[hybrid gazelle]

but yes Dullahan is important to main story

or he SHOULD BE

consider his connection to Lari

and I thin kit necessery fro him to appear in order to progress Lari character

he certainly woudl be better candidate to push Lari character devleopment

than

a fucking tree

[regal spire]

regardless, we need him as a quest boss. Dungeon, raid, or boss altar isn’t a fit

[hybrid gazelle]

yes

[dim plover]

Hi I was scrolling and found this
You posted an in-progress image where the textures are still placed at the left edge there how in the hell

It’s literally just a screenshot of the GIMP interface lmao

Anyways that image is outdated
The TNA raid islands should be in Dern, not in the middle of the void

This image is also outdated
We don’t live in a realm

This one is still technically correct though

@burnt robin Hi there hello do you need some info on plane lore

I know plane lore

(Disclaimer I can’t fly a plane)

[pallid glen]

rol rewrite?

I didn’t really like fruma’s writing so I’m not looking forward to this

[dim plover]

The edge was meant to he metaphorical to visualize TCC breaking a hole out of reality

[pallid glen]

um, isn’t the ahms region just part of the earth

and why show the silent expanse but not the light forest

[hybrid gazelle]

the surface of Ahms regions is part of the earth yes

but the void below is not

I think the graph trying to say like

[dim plover]

Like I said, that image is really outdated

[hybrid gazelle]

you can access the void through Ahms regioj

[dim plover]

It’s based off of lore that I now know is false

Anyways yes the Ahms Region is on Earth

TAC just broke a hole out of reality and the hole is in the Ahms Region

You could have pinged me I missed everything lol

[slim belfry]

yeah I kinda didnt think of that at the time

[split night]

RoL storyline would directly be responsible for 3 world ending threat xd

[uneven basin]

I'm curious what did you not like about fruma's writing ?

[hybrid gazelle]

||Since resoance weaver seems to be able to make corruption visible and also tangible

Is it possible that what ever happen in Forgery is the ruin TRYING to show corruption but due to the wrong chain being activate, it result in whatever the bullshit it doing rn||

[rustic nexus]

maybe

[silk ravine]

Also is ||the “Gendarme commander” mentioned at the end of Apotheosis the same guy you kill while escaping the palace, or is it the corrupted gendarme knight in the second room of Wartorn Palace?||

[hybrid gazelle]

||that meant to be Hyhet but I guess they did not change it yet||

[silk ravine]

||Hyhet is the gendarme with no helmet who spawns in one of the loot caves right?||

[rich scarab]

the boss altar

[hybrid gazelle]

boss altar

[silk ravine]

There’s also ||Kenshi, but I don’t know if that’s supposed to be one specific guy or just a mob type||

[hybrid gazelle]

||mob type||

They are part of the gendarme

[silk ravine]

I thought that was the ||Sun Judge|| for some reason.

[hybrid gazelle]

||nope, it was Hyhet||

[silk ravine]

Ahh ok

||Does Hyhet have any specific lore or is he just a gendarme leader?||

[hybrid gazelle]

||He featured in Boss Altar and he is one of Fruman soldiers that realize that the queen truly is after her shell broken and decide to defact||

||After being fucking blasted by light house ofc||

[silk ravine]

||Understandable. I haven’t done the altar yet, I’ve just seen pictures of him||

[young sequoia]

||what defact, you mean try to kill the queen?||

[hybrid gazelle]

||he just left the army and try to rally other soldiers to join him in his desertion||

[young sequoia]

||so that the reason he got blasted by light house then||

[silk ravine]

||Probably. We’re canonically only a few moments after the Queen’s death in the raid, there’s probably still a bunch of loyalists who don’t know she’s dead and are fighting for her, so they tried to kill the traitors with the lighthouse beam||

[rustic nexus]

not even months

the same day or the day after

[mossy badge]

They said moments

Btw i can't believe we're still in the same year, like the fruma storyline only takes 1 month canonically

[rustic nexus]

a

[rustic nexus]

yea

we're gonna ||defeat saphanis|| and as celebration we'll throw a dance party in detlas which coincides with 1001AP

[grim arrow]

I guess there was no war inside the Fruman walls after all

[silk ravine]

||I mean there technically was war in the fruman walls, although the "war" in this case doesn't really fit the traditional definition of the word||

[mossy badge]

There is war inside the fruman walls.. on my archer

And my assassin

And my shaman....

[winged narwhal]

I feel like if Dwarves and Doguns came out after 1.20 Garaheth would be a raid

The lack of Nii Rune raids is weird, though

[barren phoenix]

||Is the Nightmare Kenshi we fight in room two of WTP the same Kenshi soldier we killed while escaping the palace, but revived by the corruption? If I remember correctly, the two rooms are pretty similar.||

[silk ravine]

Probably tbh.

I feel like there's room for an intermediate raid between Grootslangs & Orphion

[frozen turtle]

garaheth would be after orphion tho

sadly

[mossy badge]

Ye..

[silk ravine]

||Honestly it might be, I've been thinking that myself. The 2 mobs do look extremely similar.||

[frozen turtle]

make doguns happen in level 65

[silk ravine]

Yeah unfortunately

[mossy badge]

They all look the same lol

[silk ravine]

||Kenshi & the Knightmare are smaller than the other Gendarmes, have the same weapon & very similar horned helmets.||

[mossy badge]

Kenshi is a type of soldier in the gendarme, there are multiples

[barren phoenix]

||I think Nighmare has a cracked helmet, but I might be wrong||

[silk ravine]

||AFAIK he does||

||Knightmare reminds me a lof of the Abyss Watcher from DS3||

[barren phoenix]

||I think it’d be really cool if they did turn out to be the same Kenshi soldier. It’s a neat piece of world building that wynncraft really excels at, especially with the Fruma expansion ||

[silk ravine]

Agreed 100%

[opaque remnant]

What do Changelings do with the ||people they replace? || Kill them? Send them to Wynn?

[mossy badge]

Well they prolly interrogate & torture and then kill but idk for sure

Don't remember if it was mentioned

[tepid blade]

||I would think they would just be imprisoned and/or tortured, as we see Rurie being replaced, and we later find him in a jail cell after we get captured, but they also probably would kill at some of those they replace||

[uncut zodiac]

In the strong survive, where is the first diary note?

[mossy badge]

On the stage where majin did the speech

[copper breach]

Gikyo was the least plot significant sovereign

One and done

[swift niche]

Her POTENsty is a true "potential woman"

The woman nobody invited

[copper breach]

Was majin really dead or jsut faking?

[swift niche]

Dead

He done the "LTG thing"

[copper breach]

Wdym LTG?

[swift niche]

https://tenor.com/view/ltg-gif-24337002

[copper breach]

And?

What does that have to do with him faking or not faking it?

[swift niche]

Majin killed himself

The powers turned against him

[copper breach]

wdym

[copper breach]

And?

[swift niche]

You should be seen , that his weapon stabs him 2 times (2nd was fatal)

1st when he enters 2nd phase

[copper breach]

I did not pay attention to the cutscene when I fought him, but huh

When was that

[mossy badge]

Tbh i didn't notice that either

[swift niche]

But i noticed that

[primal anchor]

if i refight him can i see it or do i have to play every quest again

[gloomy idol]

Lmao I just went through some of your old images and looked for it I didn’t know if there was an updated one

[uneven basin]

After || the strong survive|| can we find || the guy who was exiled in Wynn || somewhere ?

[gloomy idol]

In think you can near the stage

[uneven basin]

You can refighr every boss iirc

[wind prism]

ya

[swift niche]

At the safe zone of Aelumian Citadel

[mossy badge]

He means the recruiter

[uneven basin]

No not Arnol the recruiter

[swift niche]

Oh

Idk

[uneven basin]

I expect you can't

[swift niche]

I think you can't find him

[mossy badge]

I thought u could

But never checked it myself

[uneven basin]

I mean he could be I haven't scoured the province

[mossy badge]

I remember seeing his in ragni

[azure tangle]

He is in Ragni

[mossy badge]

Ok found him, at the ravine entrance

[primal anchor]

yea but when i do will it play the scene or just tp me back

[hasty beacon]

And in the canopy cave if you save him before you go to the citadel

[winged narwhal]

Folks do we support the anti colonial struggle of the Skyraiders against villagers

[uneven basin]

Are they even native from the sky islands tho

I thougtit was like a huge criminal hideout

[worthy hornet]

will there be more information on 2

[hasty beacon]

Wasteland update

[mossy badge]

Sure

[brave rune]

When do we get an option to raze llevigar to the ground in clearing the camps

[winged narwhal]

The Skyraiders have been there for quite a while

[tribal crystal]

||Intresting the mistwoods used to actully be happy being under the queens control...
Wonder why they added changelings and changed the entire order of the mistwoods.||

[wintry sky]

I like how simple minded the warrior is

but also fallen warrior might be canon

he somehow gets an iq upgrade in corkus

even the shaman is surprised that he succeded

Rip butler

[lusty glacier]

where are these logs from?

[mossy badge]

OST on yt

[wintry sky]

the song ost

reading the silent expanse logs i think the warrior becomes fallen at the end

[mossy badge]

Are there fruma logs?

[wintry sky]

from the logs it feels like he separated

[wintry sky]

yeah but not on wiki iirc

you have to go to the channel

so far idk how the numbers relate

but the first letter is the class

for some reason there is As: which i think is archer but idk why they put an s

[lusty glacier]

archer vs assasin?

ar as

[wintry sky]

ohh im stupid lol

[mossy badge]

https://tenor.com/view/an-iq-too-high-raven-crow-tiktok-gif-3869671553367641450

[wintry sky]

forgot about assassin

baby spear users smh

[mossy badge]

The number is just how many logs there are for that character in that lvl, and indicate order of events

[wintry sky]

wiki might be outdated but i saw a number repeat

i wonder if anyone compiled them in order

[mossy badge]

What page are they even on, on the wiki?

[wintry sky]

also i think some numbers are missing

[wintry sky]

https://wynncraft.fandom.com/wiki/Music

Log: [level]-[number][class]
so thats the pattern

[rich scarab]

fyi fandom wiki is discontinued and out of date

https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Music heres that page on the new wiki

[wintry sky]

oh is that why there are 2 wikis

[mossy badge]

Ig its a new person then

[mossy badge]

Can't delete the old one

[rich scarab]

yeah fandom doesnt let you delete your old wiki when you migrate elsewhere

[wintry sky]

i see

when i read through quests they seemed identical so i never made the distinction

for some reason warrior is referred to as Wa now

which means next class starts with W

epic theorizing

[rich scarab]

Wbard

[wintry sky]

warlock?

[wintry sky]

but also this leads mre credence to my fallen theory

[mossy badge]

Man the cover arts are so good

[wintry sky]

warrior no longer has qualms about killing after silent expanse

[wintry sky]

true

[cinder cedar]

could be a Warden too but people might confuse it with vanilla MC wardens

but I don't think people would be that dumb

[mossy badge]

Warden 1v1 in deraj

[wintry sky]

i would assume they are keeping with rpg classes

what would warden be

[outer heron]

Looking for resistance members/important characters after WTP but I only found Tasim so far

are they out there?

[wintry sky]

but i think its the scrapped class from silent exapnse update

[mossy badge]

Nope

Im so unsatisfied with the ending

[wintry sky]

maybe wilder?

[cinder cedar]

They would be a better tank than warriors

[mossy badge]

Tf is that

[limber swan]

||Weaver?||

[wintry sky]

it says its from dnd and has psyonic abilities

[celest falcon]

The guy from Elden Ring Nightrein

[wintry sky]

that might be interesting

[mossy badge]

Mage 🤯

Like thats all class bro

[wintry sky]

maybe like a doll with strings like in naruto

[limber swan]

||manaweaver specifically||

[cinder cedar]

concidering the lore we have been given about them, would be an option

[mossy badge]

Pretty much all class

And i can't imagine no weapon class lol

[cinder cedar]

but we got like, mages which are heavy magic users and shamans wich are also heavy mana users but in a different way

[wintry sky]

honestly some kind of martial artist or fighter class would be fun

[celest falcon]

Wynncraft when it’s time to end a questline by simply segueing into a piece of content and offering not much closure (Realm of Light, Silent Expanse, Fruma)

[cinder cedar]

would be a bit redundant to get avatars as next class but im all for it

[mossy badge]

Well thats the opposite

[mossy badge]

W wonncraft

[wintry sky]

Wynn class lmao

[celest falcon]

Bob class confirmed

[outer heron]

i mean there's still a piece of fruma missing so theres probably hope for the future

[mossy badge]

Ye

[celest falcon]

Save the world Butterfly effect

[nocturne nimbus]

the description logs are not canon btw just to be clear

[wintry sky]

sad

no new class

[hybrid gazelle]

making new class would take large amount of workload by the CT

[celest falcon]

It’d probably be a balancing nightmare to have a sixth class anywyas

[outer heron]

what about the two doors in the WTP lobby? I opened one by finishing the raid, couldnt open the rune sealed door (no one has been able to, to my knowledge), what about the other locked door? Do you just have to do the raid again? Is another sealed door behind it?

[hybrid gazelle]

that mean new items(Which increase due to the recently increase level cap)
New ability trees
new ultimate
new vfx
and more

[wintry sky]

true but its fun to scizo on a few letters difference

[hybrid gazelle]

a new class alone would pretty much like

[tepid blade]

Yeah, this is definitely something I do hope they do improve on having more stuff after the end of a quest line, I do think that RoL and SE ending were made that way so that they would be answer when ever the Dern expansion comes out

[hybrid gazelle]

be its own update

[wintry sky]

but yeah in terms of updates id rather see some of the older quests reworked first

[ripe heath]

what year is wynncraft world set in now

[hybrid gazelle]

Fruam storyline ending is weird rn becasue there is no epliogue yet

[mossy badge]

Other door: 🍈 ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hybrid gazelle]

1000 AP

[wintry sky]

temple of legends my beloved

[ripe heath]

cheers

[hybrid gazelle]

Once epliogue come out

thing likely warp up nicely

but so far

this is probably the best ending they done

but then agian we got

SE and ROL as standard

I mean DND also got pretty well done epliogue

despite

utteryl awful ending

so we likely expecting DND level epliogue

with increase in quality ofc

[celest falcon]

Breaking Point was good

[wintry sky]

what does dnd stand for?

[celest falcon]

Dwarves and Doguns

[hybrid gazelle]

Dwarves and dogun

[wintry sky]

ohh

[hybrid gazelle]

Breaking point is better example yeah

we likely getting breaking point style of epilogue

[tepid blade]

Okay, I personally do hope they actually given us a better time scale for when events take place (please some later quests be set in 1001 and 1002 AP PLEASE DEVS)

[hybrid gazelle]

they likely will fix timeline later on

[hybrid gazelle]

but rn we dont know when

[mossy badge]

I wish the elders would cycle in tcc

[hybrid gazelle]

but they talking about fixing the timeline later

[tepid blade]

yippee

[wintry sky]

chad mc finishes in less than a year what took most (lari) 1000 years

[hybrid gazelle]

So yeah ethe entire game wont take place under a year

[wintry sky]

i kinda get her crashout

[hybrid gazelle]

which tbh probably good improvement

Fruma stuck in limbo where like

[mossy badge]

Make every irl year canon 🔥

[tepid blade]

Okay it wasn't actually 1000 years, it was probably like 800 or so from what I understand

[cinder cedar]

MC has the advantage of all of the possible discoveries of combat and class systems groundwork being done and common knowledge in Wynn

[hybrid gazelle]

the story that is not in the game rn

is pretty irrelevant to the bigger picture

[wintry sky]

i would like to see reincarnation wynn excavation and temple of legends become like a questline maybe reincarnation becoming a raid or something

[hybrid gazelle]

that it not wroth delaying the update for

Anyway on topic of Fruma flaw

[limber swan]

I think it would be cool if each province took place over a year timeline wise

[wintry sky]

well 800 is essentially 1k if your round up or ar an engineer

[hybrid gazelle]

This is my fucking devastating relevation

it so fucking sad

[full harness]

Give us martial artist class and give bmonk’s ult to it as a normal spell

[hybrid gazelle]

honestly I dont thinkI notice that in beta

[mossy badge]

W Hyloch

[tough axle]

Martial arts class would effectively be a monk which is what battle monk is

[tepid blade]

but still a long time, and her crashout about us was very reasonable, as we came out of know where and kind of replaced her in like 2 weeks (which my head canon on how long the RoL quest took)

[mossy badge]

Give us hubert class

[hybrid gazelle]

ROL will get remake eventaully

[mossy badge]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1036586382233194496/1469796720228696247/hubert.gif

[wintry sky]

maybe you can make archetypes for punching, kicking and grappling

its just perfect lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

so we will see what they gonna do with the story

[cinder cedar]

tbh, the possible unqiue class that wynn could get might be a bard or a ride class

[hybrid gazelle]

but it likely will be told better now

[tough axle]

Imo we don’t need a new class

[wintry sky]

there is even an inner peace quests

[tough axle]

5 is more than enough

[cinder cedar]

but combat with mounts is already possible with any class

[hybrid gazelle]

with the fact that current ROL is simply a rush work

[mossy badge]

15 basically

[cinder cedar]

yea

[tough axle]

You have the 4 central ones with 15 archetypes and then shaman

That’s way more than enough

[mossy badge]

Its impossible cuz they removed the major id

[full harness]

||manaweaver class dropping tomorrow!!!||

[tough axle]

This is sad but true

[cinder cedar]

galloping spurs no longe exist?

[hybrid gazelle]

they remove the major id

[mossy badge]

I think it does, but not the major id

[cinder cedar]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[tough axle]

The major id is gone so it’s useless

[hybrid gazelle]

due to its interaction with wyvern

[wintry sky]

rip

[mossy badge]

+1 inventory slot

[cinder cedar]

must have been thanks to Olinu's discovery

[mossy badge]

Best class for lr, no junk weapons

[mossy badge]

?

[full harness]

I originally had an axe barbarian class idea, but when they added archetypes, fallen was basically my idea thrown into an archetype.

[tepid blade]

I really hope that RoL does eventually get the remake it deserves, as while its not a bad quest, it is VERY flawed (the entire third quest has no impact on the RoL story currently, with only one mention) and I think it makes Lari's flaws way to prevalent without giving her enough positives to compensate, which is probably the reason so many people don't like her

[wintry sky]

if we go by theme maybe electomage is more realistic than bard

u can have an avo archetype too

[cinder cedar]

Wyvern + Galloping Spurs with the major ID = cheap grind and enemies cannot touch or hurt you

[wintry sky]

or a gavalian mage

[full harness]

I did have an idea that it could get an axe throw though and depending on element infused it would change the effect of the throw when archetypes were added

[cinder cedar]

he discovered it and reported it

[mossy badge]

We got acrobat at home ahh

[hybrid gazelle]

avo archetype

would just be shaman

becuase you cant turn a race

into arhcetype

like how would that even work

gavelian mage would just be a mage

[cinder cedar]

tbh avo culture is heavily tides to shamanism

[hybrid gazelle]

as far as we know there is not like

there is no distinct between gavelian mage and wynnic mage

becuase wynn learn its magic from gavel

[spring kernel]

the music during dialogue is quite buggy rn and i don't think it's intentional

[hybrid gazelle]

I hope so

[spring kernel]

during the earlier quests whenever you talk to a story npc literally all music stops

[hybrid gazelle]

||the queen literally has no theme of her own playing||

[spring kernel]

and doesn't come back until you enter a new music area or toggle and untoggle music

[hybrid gazelle]

||The entire fight just weird so weird and jarring||

[wintry sky]

damn

[hybrid gazelle]

||Majin does not even has his own theme playing right before his boss fight||

honestly sdo far I been happy with fruma fanart that been appearing

[tepid blade]

||Which sucks, as Majin's boss theme is great and fits his character very well||

[hybrid gazelle]

||His boss fight theme paly for me it just the hyloch theme continue playing BEFORE boss fight started||

||so it very jarring|| LOL

[shut hornet]

any specific ones? there might be a broken track

[spring kernel]

i mostly noticed it during the canopy sections

[tribal crystal]

its because the dullahan dungeon was cut.

[tribal crystal]

Correct
D&D was done in 1.18 after they had given up hope of making raids which retunred in 2020.

#🌎wynncraft message (I have message links to ct comments here)

[winged narwhal]

according to the Ruler of the Skies discovery they'd already had 356 queens by 573

[tribal crystal]

Dullhan and Garaheth are still on the table but more raids are not the priority.

[winged narwhal]

and Ahmsord was originally Skyraider

[winged narwhal]

understood

[tribal crystal]

I still wish both would be raids...
One more endgame raid and a nii raid.

[winged narwhal]

lore experts, what time was the Fracturing

[tribal crystal]

nope it was 0AP

[whole river]

Honestly never considered Gara as a potential raid boss because then the quest line kinda breaks its flow

[formal bridge]

Gara is just too close to TCC to be another raid boss

[whole river]

Would you need to beat the raid too to see the ending of D&D? And then what if you don’t will it just pretend you did?

[tribal crystal]

was a planned raid boss before D&D was even designed

[tribal crystal]

D&D would end and grant you access to the raid.

[tribal crystal]

Wrong. it could be level 90 and tcc could be raised to 100
Dullhan was also a planned raid boss...

[hybrid gazelle]

Garaheth being raid boss in ||Fruma style|| would work

but yerah

[tribal crystal]

I would say level 90 boss with uth runes tbh

[hybrid gazelle]

not like that

[tribal crystal]

And raise tcc to 100 from 95.... its quest is level 97 already.

[hybrid gazelle]

actually no

raid bosseven in fruma style wont even work

There a big event happen after Garaheth boss that is too big to be after raid dialogue

which is Axelus fucking die

so yeah no

I dont think Garaheth should be raid

I take it back

[tribal crystal]

only actual good part of the quest.

[tribal crystal]

well I disagree

[whole river]

Huh

[tepid blade]

I personally liked the quest

[whole river]

Axelus is like the only good dwarf

[hybrid gazelle]

literally you cant turn Axelus death into a non quest cutscene llol

[tribal crystal]

I do as well its just outdated, and full of tedious elements need a rework

[hybrid gazelle]

you just literally cant

[tribal crystal]

you can.

[tepid blade]

true

[hybrid gazelle]

espicalyl if we under the idea of DND getting rework

[whole river]

The rest of them are just stock-DND dwarves aka racist af and underground people

[hybrid gazelle]

how

Axelus's death require a big set up

[tribal crystal]

DND rework RoL rework and Wynnexpedition reworks...
Think we are getting atleast one more raid.

[hybrid gazelle]

with the doguns and dwarves at war with each other

okay

but how

you just say quest rework

that very vague

[tribal crystal]

It would be locked behind the quest...

[hybrid gazelle]

okay but how

like a cutscene after finishign the raid?

that not a thing in Fruma

[tribal crystal]

Also dont think we kill Garaheth...

[tepid blade]

okay, I would say that I don't think Garaheth would become a raid, as the DND questline is required to unlock the Canyon Colossus raid

[whole river]

I don’t see him as a raid in anyway whatsoever

[hybrid gazelle]

I think that is the lesat concern

yeah

I dont see him as a raid

[whole river]

Dullahan’s quest meanwhile is legit a raid setup

You literally end the quest at his doorstep

[tribal crystal]

Well thats because Garaheth lost the raid vote to TNA

[hybrid gazelle]

espically when Axelus death is happen right after Garaheth's defeat

so the only way to turn garaheth into a raid

[whole river]

Meanwhile for gara he’s not even the MAIN part of the finale

[hybrid gazelle]

is you make Doguns vs Dwarves war keep on going until you finish the raid

||Which btw is not something easy to do as skybox like in Fruma||

and somehow

make cutscene play only after you finish the raid

[tepid blade]

Yeah, that does put a wrench in that idea

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah

that the only issue about Garaheth as a raid

[tribal crystal]

dont we just put Garaheth into a dormant state?

[hybrid gazelle]

that not the point

that literally not the point of this LOL

[whole river]

Gara, lore wise, also is like on a timer is another issue

[hybrid gazelle]

Garaheth being killed or not in not the issue here

[whole river]

This is in the MIDDLE of a death war

[hybrid gazelle]

the issue ehre is that Axelus dying is not somethign you can turn int raid epliogue cutscene

[tribal crystal]

Then we can just stop them and that is a temporary measure.

[hybrid gazelle]

that the issue

[tepid blade]

yeah, because you only completed a raid canonically once, so them dying or not is not an issue with the raid

[hybrid gazelle]

uit not about Garahethdying or not

that mean you somehow need to turn Axelus's death into this epliogue cutscene

and even then what we see in Fruma that is not really done

[tribal crystal]

well they said Garaheth raid is now depending upon community approval.

[hybrid gazelle]

again

you missing the point

the question I am asking rn is

how would you turn Axelus' death scene into post raid cutscene

that what I am been wondering

because the idea so far sound unappealing

[tribal crystal]

You can make it a one time cutscene...
Like how the end of the fruma raid adds (what comes next)
It would be like the post orphion sequence.

[hybrid gazelle]

Fruma spoiler
||this is not a concern because Fruma done something smilar||

[hybrid gazelle]

after raid complete?

also

what fruma add is different entirely

[tribal crystal]

You can do it after raid completion or before.

[hybrid gazelle]

||Tasim visting Aledar grave is a cutscene you do on thes ide||

||it's optional||

Axelus' death

is fucking not

it should not be optional

and if we go by post orphion format

then you gotta have the case where Axleus fucking die and NPCs just standing there for you to interact

[tribal crystal]

Answer is they can make cutscenes post raids your just cherrypicking.

[hybrid gazelle]

How am I cherry picking when I pointing out the example of post raid cutscene we have

[tribal crystal]

Just because its done in an optional manner post fruma raid doesnt mean it cant be done in a manditory manner.

[hybrid gazelle]

with Orphion and ||anathema||

all of thsee post raid cutscene simply just feature the character just standing and let you talk to them

[tribal crystal]

I dont see any reason why they cant do it. Based upon the ending cutscenes that already exist.
I dont see any technical limitations that the CT has explained beyond a creative choice.

Where is your evidence they cant do it.

[hybrid gazelle]

never say they cant do it

but it would be awkward

it just seems awkward imagine getting out of raid

and just have Axelus death being just part of epilogue and not its own emotional scene within a quest

[tribal crystal]

Yes it would. Or they could die right before the boss fight IE after the third challange.
But that would loose the emotional impact

Or they could go out during a scene like the end of the parasite.

[hybrid gazelle]

one way to make this work is having Axelus die at the end of the quest before you get into Garaheth raid

but then again depend on the direction of the story

[tribal crystal]

yes
I already brought that up

[hybrid gazelle]

because the original scene meant to be that

everything is over

[tribal crystal]

true.

[hybrid gazelle]

there is nothing to fight oever anymore, the doguns are back into corner but both side are on edge

if we move Axelus death BEFORE Garaheth's defeat

we just recontextualize everything so it come to the matter ofa question

would DND rewrite change the scene of Axelus' death

because it could went from Axelus dying in order to stop the hate between the two to Axelus dying just so the two spices can work otgether to stop Garaheth

but that in turn also butterfly effect to the pacing of the quest

[tribal crystal]

True

Also what was the cause of death or removal for the past soverigns?

[regal spire]

I just do DND3 for the resource mine, atp

[exotic bough]

||- caetal was treason I think from killing a changeling

• xima was assassinated for building fort torann on the old temple
• selium disappeared in the wastelands after researching the origin of changelings and is presumed dead ||

All the others don’t have a clear reason

||ig rieke resigned after gale disappeared||

[pallid glen]

there was like, a weird approach to the queen being evil

like she has the power of a god but also doesn’t care to just, conjure up food for the roughworkers while complaining about civil unrest

then it turns out she’s actually good because she’s fighting dark and light

then it turns out she’s suddenly bad because she wants to flood an entire region

which makes no sense because why would she do that

[exotic bough]

I dont think she can just snap her fingers and create a feast

[pallid glen]

and it wasn’t foreshadowed at all

[exotic bough]

Not really, it’s just more so sympathetic. Doing the wrong things for the right reasons

[exotic bough]

Makes a statement for dissenters

[pallid glen]

they have farming technology way better than anywhere else

[exotic bough]

Is foreshadowed in secret discoveries

[pallid glen]

if other regions aren’t super poor

you’d think they’d be fine

[pallid glen]

it is?

[exotic bough]

Washed away

[pallid glen]

you wouldn’t leave any dissenters alive

[hybrid gazelle]

Yeah and it foreshadow in overture of dis pair

The mention of auburn flood mention quite sometime

[uneven basin]

Also some of the bad things she does is because fruma is basically a garden to her

[hybrid gazelle]

Even in off the raid

[uneven basin]

She deliberately dries the auburn forest because it looks pretty to her

[pallid glen]

oh when?

[exotic bough]

Prevents future dissent by saying “don’t rebel or else I’ll destroy everything you love” or smth like that

[tribal crystal]

||How did they assasinate xima... (he was a jerk)
selium just dissappeared... Didnt realize that.
So rieke just didnt get replaced by sousoh and retire?||

||I am a bit unclear was gale meant to be a soverigm? I know Majin's wanted her which is why she fled fruma||

[pallid glen]

that’s what killing syndra was for

[hybrid gazelle]

if you read the book in Majin's library

[pallid glen]

not wiping out an entire region

[hybrid gazelle]

it literally talk about Auburn flood LOL

[pallid glen]

I read one of them

oh weird

[hybrid gazelle]

well you read ONE

not all of them

but yes

[rich scarab]

yeah it comes across a lot more as a motivation than a redeeming quality imo

[hybrid gazelle]

it been foreshadow for quite a while

washed away
off the rail
Majin's library

I think there more

[exotic bough]

||Method is unclear but they used wind chimes to communicate||

||gales parents placed a shit ton of pressure in her to be the next highlands sovereign||

[hybrid gazelle]

like there probably more

so it definitely not out of nowhere

[pallid glen]

wait like

qira hive gale?

[hybrid gazelle]

there is nuisance

[tribal crystal]

||Why did Majin get picked then?||

[hybrid gazelle]

she is right about things such as war of the realm

[mossy badge]

Yes

[pallid glen]

damn

[mossy badge]

Gale nasin

[hybrid gazelle]

but that does not stop her from being a fascist dictator

[spring kernel]

gale nasin of house nasin

[hybrid gazelle]

that what make fruma story good

[spring kernel]

relative to zhiraok nasin

[hybrid gazelle]

there is a nuisance to this

it not just straight line

[mossy badge]

Who else would be picked

[exotic bough]

Right place at the right time if I had to guess

[tribal crystal]

||also caetal was killed for treason? were they warned not to interfere with changelings, they seem to just have appearned and several soverigns were looking into them||

[hybrid gazelle]

yes the queen is right for certain thing and her motive has good inteention

but that does not justify her literal dictatorship over Fruma

[tribal crystal]

||Gale||

[mossy badge]

Bro

[hybrid gazelle]

and her action echo from the tTwin that responsible for her existence

[mossy badge]

She fled

[hybrid gazelle]

in tne thend

in the end

no matter how much she try to stray away from her origin

||she still a realm beast||

[tribal crystal]

||wait she fled before?
I thought she fled from Majin||

[hybrid gazelle]

||She still seek control and lay claim||

[mossy badge]

Fym from majin 😭

[pallid glen]

also

[hybrid gazelle]

||no she flee from Fruma||

[mossy badge]

Is majin supposed to be her stalker?

[pallid glen]

who was there before fruma

[regal spire]

Why do people think she fled because of Majin

[pallid glen]

wasn’t there some people before

[tribal crystal]

ah. nevermind im just confused.

[pallid glen]

psionics or something

[hybrid gazelle]

THe council

[mossy badge]

Fruma

🤯

[hybrid gazelle]

no the pisonic is post queen take throne

before the queen there was councisl that rule fruma

[pallid glen]

before the queen came to the physical plane

[hybrid gazelle]

the councils

[mossy badge]

Fruma was before the queen

It was full (u could say) of their gods and culture

And colonized wynn

The queen stole fruma and made it her own

[tribal crystal]

||Weird that bost the mistwoods, and highlands soverigns dissapeared due to the changelings...||
||the queen basically ruined all trust she had in the mistwoods by removing the former soverign and she lost the person who made the highlands propserous||

[uneven basin]

Secret discoveries flesh out the story a whole awful lot

[mossy badge]

Canonically [Prof] Professions Guild was before fruma 😂

[hybrid gazelle]

||I think Seilum was auburn soveriegn||

||yeah he is||

[tribal crystal]

[hybrid gazelle]

||he was auburn sovereign||

[tribal crystal]

oh my bad.

[mossy badge]

Blame sohso

[tribal crystal]

and ||Amastli
And Gitephe Nasin ||were responcible for which respectivly?

[pallid glen]

I’ll

go find all the secret discoveries

later

[mossy badge]

-# Idk

[tribal crystal]

I just did all but one.

[hybrid gazelle]

||Amastil was industrial district before Soosu

Gitephe is highland soverign and the first nasin to be soverign||

[tribal crystal]

Who was the former highlands soverign before the arogent peacock

[mossy badge]

So ig Amastil was replaced by soosu for obvious reasons

[mossy badge]

Rieke

[drifting aurora]

all the portraits in the library have a background color based on the region they governed

[hybrid gazelle]

Lexnt

what is your favorite past soverign

[mossy badge]

Idk what the fuck could have happened to gitephe

[tribal crystal]

oh

[hybrid gazelle]

not counting modern one

I am feeling so xima

[drifting aurora]

idk i dont really think about them that much

[hybrid gazelle]

damn,,,

[drifting aurora]

i think xima just because i like his design a lot

he's really funny to me

[mossy badge]

Gitephe is the true sigma

[tribal crystal]

Ah why did they get replaced?
||(or is that in the peoples soverign discovery?) [the only one I havent done yet]||

[drifting aurora]

retired

[mossy badge]

Retirement

[hybrid gazelle]

||Likely retired after Gale left||

[tribal crystal]

I see...
||And gale is why the Nasim clan got disgraced?||

[hybrid gazelle]

||cause having your daughter runwawy from home is uhhh
Not good for mental health||

yes

[mossy badge]

Sure

[tribal crystal]

true.

[hybrid gazelle]

||from what we see from the diary and the fact she has transcribe the old fruman||

||It probably that Gale was suppose to be a person to help the queen with her resoance waver project or whatever||

||but since she leaving the province is you know||

||yeah||

[tribal crystal]

ah...

[mossy badge]

Retirement is pretty much /kill for a sovereign damn

[tribal crystal]

oof.

[mossy badge]

She must have been depressed

[tribal crystal]

so green is highlands?

or blue?

[hybrid gazelle]

blue is industrial district

[mossy badge]

Blue is roughworks

[hybrid gazelle]

light green is highland

more darker green is mistwood

IDK why dont they use yellow

probably so it does not look like piss background

[mossy badge]

🔥

[tribal crystal]

Ok so what ||did the other previous highland soverign gitephe do?||

[mossy badge]

They should make auburn orange so wastelands can be red

[hybrid gazelle]

||he was highland soverign before Rieke||

he literally like the first Nasin to be soverign LOL

[mossy badge]

Maybe also retirement

Not every1 wants to live forever ig

[tribal crystal]

Majin was just taking the credit for their predicesors work...|| (the dumb peacok deserves to be tormented in deaths realm, until his ego is shattered)||

[hybrid gazelle]

pretty sure he being a soverign around the same time as Xima

yeah he did

[tribal crystal]

I see.

||So gale was planned on being a soverign but fled for freedom...||

Wonder if qira could beat the queen...

This chestplate is outright insane.

[hybrid gazelle]

that mean Qira gotta break the shell first

and I dont think Qira would be stupid enough to do such a thing

||no fucking way Qira would go against a realm beast||

[mossy badge]

Sure

[tribal crystal]

the shell?

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah

[mossy badge]

👩

[tribal crystal]

||(If we can beat one qira can probably)||

[mossy badge]

Well the player is not just some random guy

[hybrid gazelle]

player got plot armor

[tribal crystal]

Qira is the strongest characture in gavel

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah sure why the fuck not

yeah

she probalby can beat the queen

[tribal crystal]

||We have the realm beast of Deaths favor...||
(IE death)

[hybrid gazelle]

we gotta fucking kill beyond the grave man

we gotta

do the deed

[tribal crystal]

No

[hybrid gazelle]

and just

remove that goddam quest from the face of the game

is Lexnt here

[mossy badge]

https://tenor.com/view/ishowspeed-try-not-to-laugh-gif-7682731162751353849

[tribal crystal]

To bad so sad lexnt refueses to remove it.

[hybrid gazelle]

can she just fucking kill Beyond the Grave real quick

Like OMG

whatif

[tribal crystal]

No cope and seathe it had a secret discovery

[drifting aurora]

o7

[hybrid gazelle]

thanks you Lexnt

[drifting aurora]

when trashie says kill beyond the grave, he means killing the weird parts of it

[tribal crystal]

fair.

[drifting aurora]

which i am very open to doing and already have wanted to do for a while

[tribal crystal]

Which parts exactly?

[drifting aurora]

i dont like the respawning lore

[hybrid gazelle]

I have issue with Beyond the graver but so far I think you know what it is

yeah

[tribal crystal]

fair.

[hybrid gazelle]

Like

OMG WHAT

WHAT IF

DEATH SUCK PLAYER TOE AND LIKE BE IN THEIR FAVOR EVERYTIME

SO HE JUST KEEP RESPAWNING THEM

LIKE OMG

WOULD NOT THAT BE FUN AND COOL

[tribal crystal]

TOE death is fake

[hybrid gazelle]

WOULD NOT THAT BE FUN AND COOL FACTS TO KEEP IN MIND THROUGH THE ENTIRE FUCKING GAME

WHERE THERE NO STAKE AT ALL

[tribal crystal]

true

[tribal crystal]

So they are instead just govering the realm of the dead?

[spring kernel]

what

[hybrid gazelle]

I can say worse but I stick with sucking player toe

[tribal crystal]

TOA is out of date as hell.

Plus that death is a fake

[hybrid gazelle]

I dont really care about TOA

I did not talk about TOA

I never talk about TOA

IDK why you brought it up

[tribal crystal]

oh Toe... my bad

[mossy badge]

lol

[tribal crystal]

Honeslty it would make sense if death respawns people for a bargin.

And thats how people like gale exist as ghosts

[hybrid gazelle]

how do you read player toe and then come to conclude that I am talking about Player's Tower of Ascension

I think that is like

a very entirely different sentence

[tribal crystal]

dyslexia.

[hybrid gazelle]

with whole anotehr meaning

Ghosts exist fuck ton butw e dont know the circusmtance

but then again it probably death do not want to do his job

[tribal crystal]

How would beyond the grave even make sense if respawning doesnt make sense anymore...
Hmmm would the quest instead revolve around a creature that cheats killing people by sending them to the ream of death.

[hybrid gazelle]

it not just

get a new storyline

like

I will be real I dont really care about it at this point just do whatever

literally just do whatever

@drifting aurora also btw i forgot to ask

[tribal crystal]

Would be intresting if the reason the creature is able to kill the player reguardless of how powerful they are is because they are outright cheating by sending people to the realm of the dead without dying...

[hybrid gazelle]

are you planning toa dd more music in Apotheosis

||The hyloch theme keeping playing is so jarring||

[drifting aurora]

yes

[hybrid gazelle]

awesome thanks

I doing my through of apotheosis today

literally the first half is so fucking jarring

you know music change a lot when you feel its absence

[tribal crystal]

when you rework the quests can you include an explan for ghosts?

[drifting aurora]

?

[hybrid gazelle]

her majesty cutscene without her theme

it so wrird

[tribal crystal]

Mainly gale...

like how are they not in the realm of the dead. WHy are they exempt

[drifting aurora]

well gale does have an explanation, no?

[hybrid gazelle]

NGL i geniunly ofrogt why she is a ghost

wait wait on topic of Gale

Majin is older than her during her uni year right?

cause I geniunely want to know if Majin has a fucking beef with someone who is 3-4 younger than him

[mossy badge]

I think so

[hybrid gazelle]

Gale mention that everyone else is older than her

so like

[tribal crystal]

LOL

[hybrid gazelle]

does that imply Majin too

[uneven basin]

Gale was kind of a kid genius no ?

[hybrid gazelle]

she is

but that does not hcange the fact that

Majin still ha a beef

[tribal crystal]

So she was a prodigy.

[hybrid gazelle]

with someone who is more younger than him

it still does not really change that fact man

[tribal crystal]

He is an overgrown petty manchild.

[hybrid gazelle]

if you have a beef with a kid

you have a beef with a kid

there is no but

[uneven basin]

Oh no definitely it's funnier that he beefed cause he was fuming at the 14 years old outperforming him

[tribal crystal]

Cant find it on the wiki or in discord messages.

[tribal crystal]

Mujin is just book smart with zero wisdom.

[uneven basin]

Oh on Majin btw do we have anything we could interpret as the madness of the cosmos affecting him ?

[tribal crystal]

intellect without understanding

[tribal crystal]

He was insane enough the cosmos didnt effect him.

[hybrid gazelle]

well the fact that

||he kinda go over board and fucking explode himself||

[uneven basin]

Yeah I thought so as well but I found it kind of underwhelming where is the psycho shit in his house, plus || the exploding thing || can literally just be his ego

WAKT

What if

[tribal crystal]

he is a dramatic freak who is an overgrown entitled noble that never learned to hear the word know or learn from their mistakes.

[uneven basin]

Majin's big obsession was himself

[tribal crystal]

Always was the cosmic powers just made it worse.
It goes from intrest to obession thats what happened to the siblings

Nuts, mushrooms and chickens

[uneven basin]

Yeah and for Majin it was just himself, hence the statues he has lying around and the fact he just wants to be a star

Also very cool CT he's a star indeed

[tribal crystal]

Nah he is just a firework

they arnt long lasting like a star.

[uneven basin]

We should be visibly covered in blood once we get out of him pocket dimension smh

[tribal crystal]

Yes I will diss and insult majin, as they are a piece of crap, human being.

[uneven basin]

He just majined all over the place

oh god.. there's Majin everywhere

[tribal crystal]

and it lasts all but 15 seconds before the firework fizzels out.

Also I managed to call out the fact that gikyo ||was not human and a shapeshifter before fruma came out.||

[summer bluff]

Don't they literally melt into a puddle on the floor and reappear next to you in their short?

[tepid blade]

Okay, I do think the Air Temple quest either need to changed or removed, particularly about the "all player deaths are canon thing" however, I would be fine if the player does have a single canon death in the main story of Wynncraft (in that only that single death would be canon, but none of the other ones are), for an idea, the player is killed by a realm beast in a big story fight canonically, however we get revived by something or someone (such as the unknown thing inside of us or Lari, seeing how she does have that power)

[hybrid gazelle]

there like

a lot more intresting things about canyon of the lost

but death being explore would be nice

I dont mind death being explored

it just thwe ay BTG does it is just

wasted

it just lame

we got this idea of realm beast and stuff going on

and death is

skeleton in balck robe

it feel

basic

lame

uninspired

and worst of all

boring

which only humor to carry it

[tepid blade]

true, because currently we know so little, but somehow a bit too much at the same time, like its as wide as an ocean, but as deep as a puddle when it comes to the lore around death (like the concept) in the universe

[hybrid gazelle]

there is no other substance

[silk ravine]

Scrapped class? That’s my first time hearing about this.

[tribal crystal]

People seemed to think they had a slime ability at the time but maybe im misremebering.

[feral storm]

saphanis is dern beast right?

[hybrid gazelle]

Yea

[tribal crystal]

true

[summer bluff]

Who would win
Slykaar or gikyo

[tepid blade]

Okay, now that I think about, is there any reason that Lari doesn't use her powers to revive things on Dullahan when he dies like she does with the Grootwyrm? Am I forgetting anything or is that something that might need to be addressed or changed in a RoL rework?

[tepid blade]

Gikyo most likely

[tribal crystal]

gikyo slykaar is a pushover

[silk ravine]

Gikyo probably, Slykaar is powerful but wasn’t on Gikyo’s level of threat

[gleaming apex]

Why doesn't Gikyo just copy the queen? Infinite power glitch!

[limber swan]

ye there was a scrapped class they were gonna add with the silent expanse but they cut it

[silk ravine]

||Qira is building an army specifically to fight the upcoming darkness IIRC, if she knows the realm beasts exist & knows how strong they are, she wouldn’t be building an army if she wasn’t confident she could take one of them on.||

[limber swan]

the will still release it eventually

[silk ravine]

Do we have any idea what it was?

[limber swan]

no

they still wanna add it

no clue if they are working on it rn tho

probably not though

cause it would need to have like 3 archetypes and such

and a new kind of weapon

thats like 1000+ items at least

including Mythics

thats a whole major update in it self lmao

there's balancing too

[tribal crystal]

does orphion want to win the war or keep the status quo?
They seemed content not exherting their influence and not opening the portal...
But this seems to contradict fruma lore.

[tribal crystal]

the realm bests have armies.

[limber swan]

||Orphion wants to win the war, both of the living realm beasts do||

[tepid blade]

win, most definitely win, and I do think the portal was open, just wasn't allowing us to go into, and also the reason they didn't exert their influence was because they couldn't for hundreds of years as they had the been infected by the parasite

[tribal crystal]

yet orphion did not want the portals opened.

[tepid blade]

Also, they did have influence through the Elves

[silk ravine]

||Orphion was infected by the parasite and couldn’t really do much even if he wanted to. It’s also worth noting that Anathema isn’t exactly the most reliable narrator when it comes to talking about Orphion, unless they’re planning on retconning him to more of a neutral force of nature rather than bound by morals as he is now||

[tepid blade]

I think that is because it didn't want to either A. let the parasite possibly spread through the portal B. or let more parasites enter through it, and C. It's possible it didn't want to play is cards to early, keep up the "I'm benevolent and the dark is not" act until it had the upper hand

[silk ravine]

If Orphion really is just putting on an act of benevolence I’m honestly hoping we don’t have to fight him a second time, a weakened Orphion already gives me more trouble than nearly every other boss in the game lmao

[tepid blade]

The problem with Orphion from what I know is that he seeks to enforce his morals on EVERYTHING, which means that any form of opposition to him would need to be destroyed, a bit similar to the queen

[tribal crystal]

This is before the parasite even enters the physical world

Orphion did not want the elves to open the portal

but the elves fell to confirmation bias

[tribal crystal]

fair.

[tepid blade]

I personally am good at him (but that is because I beat him basically alone with a low DPS build while he was at half health and every other party member was dead) so it was a trial by combat for me to get good and not feel embarrassed that I flubbed for the rest of the party

[tribal crystal]

He wanted to stay out of it.
He also wanted the parasite dead and once he saw the decay saw the iron golems as a way to delay as time... (Ie for the masses over the individual)

[tepid blade]

Also it's a bit funny as the parasite phase broke and stopped attacking or moving when I got latched on too

[tribal crystal]

Well unless Rol rework changes the questline and aldois secret part 2.

Then orphion seems to have wanted out of conflict.

[tepid blade]

like I said, he might have not wanted to play his hand too early, let himself grow in power slowly and secretively, and more manipulative in his movements, that is how I interpret it

[tribal crystal]

? What they were on even playing fields before the portals opened...

The elves opened them. And orpion specifically warned them not to open them

[tepid blade]

But the dark was much more aggressive, destroying the Olm rather than making them servants, like Orphion did the elves, which could leave it more venerable to a counter attack

[tribal crystal]

The parasite isnt until after both sides choose champions.

[tribal crystal]

And for the entire fight orphion wasnt ever treated as agressivly trying to reach derns realm.
Instead waiting to have a conversation with the dernic beast which is when they forced the parasite to attach to them.

[tepid blade]

I think that could be a part that might need to be changed to fit the current lore and story direction, them meeting up and all

[hollow lynx]

I don't want to hear one word from orphion. He was keeping the truth from us, because he probably knew what we were capable of and what we knew, so we better beat his ass first thing when dern drops

[tribal crystal]

yeah if they want to change orphion a recton in the ROL rework would make sense

[tepid blade]

Or beat his ass eventually, as I don't think we will be trusting him in Dern

[hollow lynx]

Go sui, use snowgrave

[rich scarab]

yeah i feel like if we are to beat orphion up it'll probably only be after at least evening the scales by removing dern's advantage (if not after beating up dern beast)

[shut mist]

We tiped the scales once

We can do it again

[tepid blade]

its also possible we will have to fight him as going on my theory that he wanted to get rid of Lari in RoL, and how we probably will have to save Lari from Dern in the expansion, he won't be happy to have her return, and we will have to fight Orphion from attempting to get rid of her permanently, so at the end of the questline

[tepid blade]

true

[hollow lynx]

I'd kill Lari

[tepid blade]

damn bro, cold

[hollow lynx]

Why would we fight Orphion for that

Just let her die

[tepid blade]

Because she is canonically our friend, and the main reason people don't like her from what have seen is that she is badly written in RoL, but other wise a perfectly fine character (in my opinon)

[hollow lynx]

Friend my ass

She got so pissed she wanted to kill me

There is no forgiveness

[tepid blade]

To be fair, it entirely in reason for her to get that mad, we suddenly appear one day after she spent centuries trying to solve the decay for Orphion, only for us to gain his favor (for whatever that is worth) and follow him blindly and fix the problems she had attempted to fix, she feared losing Orphion's favor and being replaced by us

[hollow lynx]

Can't she just accept that she is shit at everything

[tribal crystal]

Makes no sense for him to kill lari...
Removing the blessing makes more sense.

[hollow lynx]

Don't believe blessings can be removed

[tribal crystal]

true

[tribal crystal]

fair.

[tepid blade]

which to be fair, my theory is that Orphion used us to get rid of Lari in the first place, as while she was loyal in spirit, not action, making her loose end in his eyes, and he only needed her to open the portal to the realm of light to fix it (that's why he didn't make us do it ourselves)

[hollow lynx]

I think Orphion knows of the players nature

Whatever that may be

Anathema could see it so what says he can't

[tepid blade]

very unlikely, as if he did he would probably have killed us because of it if what Anathema said has any truth about how powerful what we have is

[hollow lynx]

I feel as though he thinks he can lie to us

[tepid blade]

true, Orphion is a pathological liar

[hollow lynx]

And we already solved his problem

He probably thinks we are more likely to attack sephanim now

[rich scarab]

if we're powerful enough that he'd potentially be worried, we'd be powerful enough to make a difference in his favour, and at that point he was our only source of knowledge on the war of the realms so we had no reason to go against him really

[silk ravine]

My build is glass but agile, the issue with me is he’s one of the few bosses that can reliably hit me when I’m flying around all over the place like a maniac because he shoots down beams of light from above & that shock attack can reach flying enemies too.

[rich scarab]

and tbf he's kinda right about that, it's just that we're also likely to turn around and attack him once we're done

[hollow lynx]

I believe he didn't know we would learn of everything this quickly

[tepid blade]

However, we know that we can't beat one and be fine, as both need to be beat at the same time (or at least in a very close timeframe) or the other could sweep in and win, ending the world

[hollow lynx]

Sui used snowgrave

I feel as though we would take her to freeze them

As then both could be killed

[rich scarab]

yeah i think if we end up going and actually killing them, we'll probably need to seal both of them away beforehand (forgery time maybe?!) (then maybe re-enter plane of influence through RoW???)

[tepid blade]

also personally, I think if we do meet Saphanis in Dern, he will beat the shit out of us, as while Orphion and Anathema were weakened by the Parasite and the Scions respectively, Saphanis is going be at full power when we meet him, so it won't be fight, it will be a beat down

[hollow lynx]

We aren't just going to storm in to fight sephanim are we?

[silk ravine]

Orphion after being freed from the parasite probably could have just beaten the brakes off the player right there and then, but he didn’t. He’s probably going to try and use us to kill Bak’Al and tip the scales in the favour of the Light, because it’s in our best interests to kill him even without Orphion’s influence.

[tepid blade]

true, but he could always show up to stop us, it is their realm after all

[rich scarab]

if we do end up fighting them, i think we'll almost certainly do some stuff to weaken them beforehand

[tepid blade]

well like I said, they could just show up without us expecting them too, which what I think will happen if we meet them

[hollow lynx]

Also if our nature is seemingly strong enough for orphion to think we would atleast pose a threat to sephanim I don't think he will stomp us

[rich scarab]

i mean the queen seemed to think it'd be possible to go in there and remove the added weight on the scales

and she seems to think we could do the same

[tepid blade]

This is going off the idea that we can't use our power, at least willingly, yet

[hollow lynx]

With enough preperations victory could be ourd

[hollow lynx]

We might also have sui with us

[silk ravine]

We’ve already killed the Eye & if we destroy the Dern Beast’s scion that would likely weaken their influence even more.

[hollow lynx]

And in just 2 weeks she learned stronger magic than almost anybody else

[tepid blade]

Bak'al (Saphanis's Scion) is who I think will the final boss the of the expansion

[tepid blade]

Doesn't the Fruma story take place in a month?

[hollow lynx]

I hope sephanim won't be a raid boss