📚lore_discussion

[formal bridge]

considering the significance placed on her being a manaweaver, I have to assume it's very important

[rich scarab]

considering how ||two talks to her about her manaweaving at the end of apotheosis||, i'd imagine it's probably super rare and unique

[formal bridge]

if it was just a generic description for a cursed then it'd go like

[rotund gust]

she also kinda implies that she could use all 5 elements with her magic but just has a preference or affinity for water and ice. Since she can see all 5 strings but says she usually just tugs on the blue one

[formal bridge]

"And you are... a manaweaver."
"...yeah? I knew that from the start, I've been doing it all the time."

[rotund gust]

sui meeting theorick would be so funny.

“The strings everywhere…”
“what?”
“the colored strings i tug on for magic… you don’t see those?”
“no? “
“How do you make your ice then?”
“idfk i just do”

[hollow lynx]

That's why I think the twains were not manaweavers. I feel like one of them would use multiple types of magic

[rotund gust]

i mean, sui only uses water and water adjacent magic

presumably she could use more but she isn’t trained for it

presumably

granted mael would be a weird case since his magic doesn’t seem to be elemental aligned like the other 3. maybe air cause wisps but ehhh

[primal anchor]

she pulls on more than one elemental string she says as much

[hollow lynx]

Still seems like whoever the original twain was didn't know of this because they would probably want their "children" to be as strong as they could be

[mint gull]

probably water and air

[rotund gust]

? you mean marius?

[hollow lynx]

Yeah, sorry

[rotund gust]

she says she pulls to blue one mostly and occasionally the blue and white (i think i got the colors right)

so water and water/air for ice

[hollow lynx]

So either he didn't know they were manaweavers or they were not manaweavers

[spring kernel]

A natural-born manaweaver! I never thought id see the day

[mint gull]

I believe they weren't

same way as we use magic but don't see strings

they were just strong cursed

"cursed"

[hollow lynx]

And that line from two makes it even more obvious they werent. He said they were ancient maybe even the olms

[rotund gust]

yeah cursed is the best word we have for “innate magic user” right now, for lack of a better one

[spring kernel]

Naturally you do not know the gift you possess. That knowledge was lost with the old world after all

[hollow lynx]

I don't think two would consider the twains ancient

[rotund gust]

but cursed also covers people who use foci like the player and || the rebels from remains of the cursed||

[mint gull]

don't they mention that some people don't need it?

maybe the twains were just exceptional

[hollow lynx]

The player can be a manaweaver I think

[mint gull]

umbrella academy ahh place

[hollow lynx]

Isn't there an option to pull the strings?

After the queen fight

[rotund gust]

yeah they do say some people don’t need foci to use magic. But that doesn’t seem to just be mana weavers. And cursed applies to more then just that

[mint gull]

technically we pull our invisible string

[formal bridge]

considering the entirety of the fruma storyline takes place over the course of like, a week or two, and Sui didn't even really use her powers prior to that? She's extremely inexperienced lmao

[rotund gust]

yeah the player got somethin goin on with that

[hollow lynx]

If she be snowgraving within 2 weeks that's kinda crazy

I have a crack theory for the end of the game

[mint gull]

I believe manaweavers are people that can understand that everything is made by energy and can manipulate that, like how soosu knows everything is just matter. not that soosu is a manaweaver obviously

[hollow lynx]

Sui freezes both orphion and sephanim

[rotund gust]

soosu can’t see corruption though

sui can

[mint gull]

not that soosu is a manaweaver obviously

it was just por comparison sake

[rotund gust]

i know what you mean

apotheosis sui vs. prime theorick duel

[spring falcon]

proceed

[rotund gust]

imagine the peak

[mint gull]

Theorick is getting washed

[hollow lynx]

Is... that the thorn ring?

[mint gull]

how much prep time sui has?

[rotund gust]

idk, theorick freezing all of the nesaak region while succumbing to corruption is a pretty big feat. ||gotta be atleast equal with the dam, and even then sui needed tasim’s power boost to fully hold it back once the dam fully broke||

[spring falcon]

sui sweeps annie

[shut mist]

||proceeds to do a gikyo out of theorick with the ice||

[hollow lynx]

Two said something about it driving peole insane

[mint gull]

is the thing inside us why Death can't let us die?

[mint gull]

I think it's because you get detached from reality

[hollow lynx]

Might be that she will discover something else

[mint gull]

Like how soosu went kinda crazy after realizing that everything is just matter and nothing is really special and shit

[spring falcon]

I think it may be related to the fact the PC may not have a "soul" in the sense other npcs have

[mint gull]

I'm a full believer on us being an avatar of the world itself, so probably

[hollow lynx]

The player almost doesn't seem real

[mint gull]

literally made to save it

[spring falcon]

same here, overworld beast

[rotund gust]

the player is a psionic trust (my evidence is that i really want the psionics majin mentions to be relevant)

[spring falcon]

cause think about it, if your inside dern, the light realm, or the corruption the portal from that realm is an overworld portal

[mint gull]

I think it parallels great with Bob being actually born and became a hero with lots of talent, and us being spawned and quite literally the "chosen one
"

[hollow lynx]

I kind of hope that if we are just an avatar of the world that there will be multiple endings

[rotund gust]

the “i spawned in” line when talking to the newspaper person in hyloch is foreshadowing

[mint gull]

"haha funny meta line" when it's revealed that the player is nothign but a shell

[spring falcon]

either that, or the "bottomless well" in the player refers to the void

[tough axle]

I’ve actually come to agree with this idea, particularly because of the anguish that is mentions that we the player feel (which is not all ours) and suggests the realm of existence as suffering extreme pain

[rotund gust]

the player is the hollow knight

we have the radiance inside

[mint gull]

i really loved the mention of sorrow and pain from our "past" because that's all wynn has ever known

[tough axle]

I made that reference when everything came out lol

[hollow lynx]

We are a pale being trust

[rotund gust]

our string is pale 👀

[spring falcon]

exactly, I think they will reveal the overworld is the 4th realm

[mint gull]

I think we kinda are the hollow knight yes

[hollow lynx]

Maybe we are the very embodiment of nothing? When the war ends we are all that is left

[mint gull]

being born completely empty to hide Something

[tough axle]

Honestly it also doesn’t help that even though fruma is our home province thrrr is nothing about our past life there, implying that we are actually not originally from fruma

[hollow lynx]

We are from dern trust

[spring falcon]

I think the player is a shell for an overworld beast like the queen

[mint gull]

I think it would be lowkey worse if we were a person before and something happen to us rather than we were just spawned

[tough axle]

Also the strand inside us.. could be considered a flame? A spark? We carry a flame.. we are Charlie kirk

[hollow lynx]

It took us as a shell

It left us with nothing

[spring falcon]

for a moment I considered the player could be dern related, but then remembered that the dern beast was active and pulling strings from dern, so it couldn't be hidden in the player

[rotund gust]

crack pot idea. ||anathema mentions she may reemerge some day as a new creature after we kill her. We know the portals closed a long time ago but not why. Maybe orphion and saphanis killed the influence/overworld beast, hence why she doesn’t recognize us, which closed the portals somehow. Anathema manifests in this time and never learns about the overworld beast. The player is either A. the remanifeststion of the beast or B. an influence scion with a remnant of its power like lari and the sovereigns for light and war. ||

[mint gull]

Dern beast hates our guts fr fr

[hollow lynx]

What if the beast we are a shell for is nothing? And the beast inside us wants the war to end so that it may claim victory

[rain saffron]

Woah peak

[mint gull]

I think it's less of there being a beast and more in the like of War where it just experienced conflict and tragedy and sorrow and eventually, when the time seemed good for change it manifested itself on a shell

[hollow lynx]

And it is just using us a peon to carry out its plans. Maybe that is why we are a manaweaver aswell

[mint gull]

Don't seem to be the story's tone tbf, it seems a lot more hopeful with us actually managing to accomplish everything we want to

[spring falcon]

I think the player has the manifestation of the overworld, and the emotions the player felt weren't actually a "beasts emotions" per say, but rather us, what if we the player behind the screen is the overworld beast, manifesting an avatar when the realms are out of balance by creating a shell to house us.

[hollow lynx]

It would certainly be an interesting ending

[rotund gust]

i mean ||anathema is the war beast. She is manifestation of war even though she doesn’t want to be. Her just being a strong devil like annihilation isn’t really supported||

[mint gull]

I guess if we take that every realm must have a beast than yeah

since we're in the realm of phisicality

[hollow lynx]

Then the void must have a form too

[spring falcon]

the void technically isn't a realm

it's the space between

[mint gull]

the void is just there vibing

[gleaming apex]

I mean the thing is that we're probably ||being manipulated by something, given how she says great lengths were taken to hide whatever's up with us from her||

[mint gull]

iirc there's also a distinction between the Void where people live and all that and the actual void nothingness, like the nameless anomaly creates

[hollow lynx]

Maybe the reason two finds us unpredictable is because we are nothing but the void. She may hope that we escape It's grasp

[rotund gust]

Not must, but just does. ||if i understand correctly Anathema comes to exist once the portals are closed since it gives war a lul to establish itself. Like the influences have a desire to have a form but don’t need one. Granted that may just be war since war is a result of two other influences interacting, not a thing in and of itself||

[spring falcon]

I really believe the thing that is manipulating the PC is us the player

[mint gull]

Doesn't make sense since we didn't hide anything

is probably the same thing that said that death can't take us

[gleaming apex]

My personal theory is that we're ||some sort of defense system for the world. Like the world knows it's in danger so it just spits us out to take care of it||.

[rotund gust]

i think their the same? Void is just like… emptiness between realities.

if i understand correctly.
The archipelago and realm of dark are just parts of the void claimed by darkness

presumably the realm of light is the same

how the realm of war and influence relate to that is unsure. Whether they are seperate, also in the void, dunno

the realm of influence is important since it’s actually area the two influences can fight over. The void isn’t really a good battleground since it’s just nothingness that both exist in, presumably impossibly far away from each other. They reason ||anathema’s existence stopped the war from progressing is because she held the power to destroy the realm of influence. No battle ground means no war, and light and dark need a battleground to fight each other in||

[hollow lynx]

It would explain why we are able to technically interact with the strings

[slim belfry]

oh yeah apparently the nameless anomaly void is on the edge of dernic space

[spring falcon]

what if she simply cannot detect us the player as a separate entity thus resorts to hidden, my evidence for us being separate from the character is the fact that we cannot tell Tasim early, cause the PC themselves would refuse

[hollow lynx]

CT mentioned that we are only not able to tell him early because they did not have enough time to develop it

[spring falcon]

well that answers that

[mint gull]

I think the pc and us the player are in a weird state where the pc is an actual person with feelings since it cares about other without your active input

[rotund gust]

if i understand ct statements correctly. The archipelago is just the very edge of dern. Hence why it’s so voidy. It’s right before you reach unclaimed void, but it’s still claimed by darkness, hence why it is in the realm of dark

[slim belfry]

also kinda why it's like a beach

I hope the RoL gets expanded like this

[gleaming apex]

I think another possibility for our origin is that we're ||A fragment of something powerful(not sure what yet), that fell into the void and eventually formed a shell from other random stuff, and just returned to the physical plane in a place where we wouldn't be noticed (either placed there by something else or instinctively entered there)||

[spring falcon]

so that something that will probably be answered eventually, if the PC is a conduit for us and us and the PC are the same or we are separate.

[hollow lynx]

The player is a shell for us

[rotund gust]

i mean if Realm of Dern is just the part of the void where ||saphanis lives||, realm of light is presumably the same for orphion. It is just floating islands with empty space beyond. Not an alternate reality just part of the void

[hollow lynx]

We are the true villain /j

[rotund gust]

fits nicely as part of the void

[gleaming apex]

Well yeah

[slim belfry]

I do feel like this is the case

[gleaming apex]

It's said in one of the quests that the realms of light and dark are just the sections of the void the beasts laid claim to

[slim belfry]

point of no return explicitly points out you are you

[silk ravine]

Theorick probably no diffs, a washed old Theorick froze all of Nesaak & Lusuco while literally on death’s door.

[rotund gust]

i wonder if deaths realm is also just part of the void or if it’s its own thing

[rotund gust]

ong you’re so right

[spring falcon]

Another thing we are forgetting, is that when we pulled on the string that "bottomless pit" it said it was filled with vibrant colors, so if you treat it as it is, what creates things from nothing, a deity of sorts, so possibly, the PC could actually house an entity before realms even existed. So maybe it could be what "created" the void/overworld

[mint gull]

as in the Two explanation?

[gleaming apex]

Yeah

[mint gull]

because it feels like their realms are an extention of themselves

[hasty beacon]

I wish we could tell our friends that we are actually a vessel for an incomprehensible being on another plane of existence that only exists in this world for its own entertainment

[mint gull]

I believe the vibrant colors were the elements?

[gleaming apex]

Yeah it's like the part of the void that they exist in, and that part of the void is colored by their presence is my idea of it

[rotund gust]

also i imagine we’ll eventually get an explanation of how space works when the void also exists.
is space just part of the void as well (like our solar system is just floating in the void) or is the realm of influence a completely alternate reality unrelated to the void and realms of light and dark.

[hollow lynx]

Hell yeah! Meta narrative

[gleaming apex]

No space is separate from the void I think

[rotund gust]

i mean probably

[mint gull]

I believe space is still in the physicality

[slim belfry]

yeah and void is emptiness space between any realms

[mint gull]

at least i imagine the RoP as the actual universe

[gleaming apex]

To get to the void you have to actually pierce the fabric of reality

[hollow lynx]

I presume two will inform us

[mint gull]

with Dern and RoL being in the void outside of it

it doesn't really work tho

[rotund gust]

yeah but if you travel far enough out do you reach void eventually? Travelling to the edge of the realm of dark eventually leads to void, so is physicality the same?

is space the realm of physicalities* version of the archipelago

[mint gull]

because why would they choose a specific place

[spring falcon]

I think we need to ask, what made the void, what created the beasts

something exists beyond their power

[mint gull]

I think the void just is

[slim belfry]

space is physical plane not influence

[rotund gust]

influence i mean plane of influence

[spring falcon]

cause like war was made by light and dark, so what made light and dark

[hollow lynx]

Then we loop back to what created the creator. It will not bring us anywhere

[mint gull]

and the beast is just a concept that eventually created itself a mind

[rotund gust]

like our world

The “real” world or whatever we wanna call it

[gleaming apex]

The realms of light and dark exist in the plane of influence, and our world is in the plane of physicality

[tough axle]

There is no space wynncraft is flat and Maijin is a fraud

[rotund gust]

edited it

[hasty beacon]

No wynncraft is just the center of the universe so its more convenient for light and dark to fight there

[mint gull]

the void is weird because it's not really a portal and it's not really space

[spring falcon]

they deadass could go all God of War and say something existed before/made everything, but never elaborate

[mint gull]

but it's not actually important too

[slim belfry]

it might be? we don't even know what the wynn world is truly like

[hollow lynx]

Would be kind of boring tho

[tough axle]

It’s incredibly difficult to speculate on what the player character is from 5 lines of dialogue. Maybe ct will expand in the butterfly effect

[rotund gust]

and if physicality is fully an alternate reality unreleased to void how tf did light and dark find it. Also how did the ahms colossus open rifts to the void if physically isn’t atleast related to void

[mint gull]

I think wondering what created primordials is just going too overboard in worldbuilding

is too far to matter

[gleaming apex]

I heavily doubt that they're actually gonna go with a fourth wall breaking explanation for our origin, probably more like leaning on the fourth wall. Something like "you are controlled by something that exists in game and is basically a stand-in for the person at your computer but does actually exist in the lore"

[hollow lynx]

At a certain point you have to accept that something exists just because it exists

[spring falcon]

that I think is most likely

[slim belfry]

ahm colossus was so stupid strong it literally broke reality

[tough axle]

Honestly I feel with the direction they are going we are like a hollow knight

[spring falcon]

how sick would it be to be able to change forms

[rich scarab]

convergence lore gives some juicy hints as to the nature of the void

[rotund gust]

i mean, ||anathema describes how she came to be. i think it’s also mentioned light and dark created orphion and saphanis some where||

[tough axle]

LIMITLESS? We are GOJO SATORU??

[rotund gust]

i’ve always assumed void as basically d&d astral plane.

empty space between reality stuff

[mint gull]

It's better to speculate what is inside of the player by the actions it takes and what it's destiny is like. Unlike Light, Dark and War it does not seek to conquer, but to protect all the regions, thus it stands to reason that it's aligned with the planet

[hasty beacon]

I wish that they would go more into the players backstory but i think they want it to be open ended so we can make our own story and stuff, which makes sense

[slim belfry]

it still is

[rain saffron]

DnD mention…

[spring falcon]

wait does this literally say the player harnesses the void, or that in using the weapon the void is harnessed

[eternal helm]

I can’t believe Orphion BETRAYED me like this and used me as a pawn… I can’t wait to beat his a$$

[rich scarab]

using the weapon

[tough axle]

I honestly disagreed with that, I feel they could have gone the Skyrim route

[mint gull]

War is different because she's the result of two things clashing. Orphion and Saphanis are just Two Concepts creating two personas over infinite time i guess

[rotund gust]

i’ve already finished 13 subclasses for the 2nd edition of my wynn d&d supplement. It’s happening

[gleaming apex]

I mean as long as the backstory leaves us as a blank slate at the beginning of the game, it's probably fine. Which I why I like the idea that we just spawned in by some way.

[rotund gust]

yeah but in the sense of the force just existed and eventually gained a will

[tough axle]

We effectively did spawn in

[hollow lynx]

The void is everything magic confirmed??? The power that you harness is magic so it is the source of magic????

[spring falcon]

we got light and dark, so I think we need a third primordial, grey, us

[tough axle]

Everything in fruma makes it seem like we actually aren’t from fruma

We aren’t a normal human

That’s as much as we know

[mint gull]

yeah

[spring falcon]

I agree with this

[rain saffron]

Wow

[hasty beacon]

What if the player is actually a changeling, cause those guys are mined out of the ground i think and we can also change our skin

[slim belfry]

we could still be from fruma we just decide if we are or not

[tough axle]

In a way that’s depressing cause it forces the idea that you have to be special to make change

[gleaming apex]

Yeah I'm almost certain we started existing in the way we are now very close to the beginning of the game

[mint gull]

if you go by color theory, War is red and the planet is green which are opposites i think? The same way with black and white

[rich scarab]

when this item lore says "such is the power you harness", im like 99.999% sure it means "...when you use specifically this weapon"

[eternal helm]

Twilight!! The cosmic power that is of light and darkness when there isn’t a powerful violent exchange

[tough axle]

Us getting paired with tasim and aledar also doesn’t feel like a coincidence

[rotund gust]

i mean, consider:
for some godforsaken reason zeph is our 4th canon WTP raid member

[hollow lynx]

If the first quest when dern comes out isn't us and sui snowgraving orphion the game will be unplayable

[spring falcon]

that is what I'm saying, we are the balance, and we see it by bringing balance to the world

[rotund gust]

||the player, tasim, sui, all insanely powerful magic users. And normal ass guy||

[hasty beacon]

He uses the power of gay

[rotund gust]

normal people can make change

[spring falcon]

as long as we don't become what will be what destroys the balance

[mint gull]

I mean, i guess? i don't know if it's supposed to be social commentary

[slim belfry]

I should've saved it but someone said at one point it was considered the queen was gonna call herself "Queen of Twilight" to cope

[rich scarab]

look at the queen's eyes, she has homophobia - she is no match for zeph

[tough axle]

Will sui come with us to dern? I think it would be awesome if dern was tasim us and sui fighting for our lives in dern while exploring the tension of tasim and sui anf the players relationship

[tough axle]

Someone fish react this

[hollow lynx]

It feels like she would. Seeing how she is a manaweaver and all that

[hasty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/no-reaction-perms-no-perms-gif-20903053

[rotund gust]

i really wanna see a “canon” cutscene of WTP.

someone using the default player skin from the “class select” screen. Then someone using || tasim, sui and zeph skins ||

[rich scarab]

then the tention between the player and lari too!!

[hollow lynx]

I feel like two would encourage sui to go to dern in a way

[tough axle]

The player and lari are NOT romancing

I refuse

[gleaming apex]

Now here's a BIG theory I've been cooking up for a while:
||So first off, when you're fighting Anathema, some of her titles are grey and related to order and balance, while some are red and related to war and chaos||

[spring falcon]

I really wanna be able to do nexus of light solo, cause based on lore the player did nexus of light solo

[rich scarab]

not that kind of tention 💀

[hasty beacon]

I wish we could have our canon wtp team members i would take zeph over a morph user

[mint gull]

"Hey buddy, Lari. How's it going? Water under the bridge right? anyway we have to kill your god"

[eternal helm]

What if the entire lore is just a breakup between orphion and Saphalis or whatever

[tough axle]

The player honestly is basically an amorphous blob that Everyone just accepts is a part of life

[rich scarab]

"so i went and killed the god of the realm of war - long story lol! - anyway with her dying breaths she said i need to kill your guy soooooo................ you down?"

[mint gull]

They hatefucked and spawned war

[hollow lynx]

I wish the npcs fought with you when they say the would

[rich scarab]

divorce leads children to the worst of places (fruma)

[slim belfry]

||pretty sure it was confirmed the title are two opposites then settled on a neutral one||

[spring falcon]

I think the general consensus that everyone has is that the player is a shell for some other entity, and there is no real way to determine what until we get more info

[rotund gust]

pretty sure that’s just supposed to show her dual nature.
||She’s the queen of fruma and the war beast. Order and chaos, war and peace. Nature vs. Choice. Hence why it ends with destruction unwilling. Since her nature is fighting against her will and destroying fruma because of it||

[mint gull]

can i say that? i don't know the server tos

[tough axle]

Technically true

Unfortunately true

[slim belfry]

literal hate child

[rotund gust]

idk i like idea of the player being a scion more compelling. but it’s the same difference either way

still chosen by a god

[hasty beacon]

When are we getting the cutscene

[tough axle]

It’s the bovine entity

[spring falcon]

so then they must have also spawned peace to balance war out

[rotund gust]

orphion mpreg…

[rich scarab]

i absolutely adore the title "||destruction unwilling||", sums up the character so well

[hollow lynx]

How would light and dark do the yknow....

[slim belfry]

when two realm beasts hate each other very much...

[tough axle]

Considering the realm beasts are basically furrys probably how you would think

[rich scarab]

why do you think they have the beasts

[mint gull]

would the parasite consider as a disease?

just saying

[rotund gust]

parasite was an STD

[hasty beacon]

Idk if i can say that here but i have a theory

[slim belfry]

this is a stupid convo lol

[hollow lynx]

I need the 3 hour cutscene

[mint gull]

totally lore relevant

[gleaming apex]

And in Overture to Despair, ||Two says that the mirror that the Beasts looked at each other through shattered, and War was created from the pieces.||

||What if that mirror was initially a realm of its own? A realm of balance or order or something along those lines?||

And an even further reach:
||Given how the mirror was in the void between them, some of the fragments when it broke could have fallen into the void instead of becoming part of war.

What if we are/contain a fragment of that mirror and or realm. This would also explain why Anathema is familiar with whatever is inside us||

[tough axle]

Yeah I’m out

[slim belfry]

yeah player is twilight beast theory

[mint gull]

did the mirror shatter before or after they hated each other?

[gleaming apex]

After

[mint gull]

because if it's after than it probably implies that before they were a mirror image of the other, but when they created consciousness they started to despise, and then the "mirror" breaks and they fight

[hollow lynx]

I think two is very much related to dern. So why would they look for a way to stop the dark? What if the dark is staging all of this? It doesn't add up

[mint gull]

two sides of the same coin and all that

Two is just edgy i think

[slim belfry]

because the dark has an unknown advantage in the war and they need to cut it off

[mint gull]

I don't think Dern would let someone have a human appearence

[hollow lynx]

But why would she care?

If she is on their side

[rotund gust]

maybe. But also two just uses mirror imagery a LOT. It could just be how she’s explaining it not literal. The mirror shattering (i think) is the portals closing for the first time. Since ||anathema|| didn’t exist the first time the portals were open. their war broke temporarily with the portals closing, giving war time to pull itself together into a force of its own will and more then just a reflection

[gleaming apex]

She's not?

[slim belfry]

I don't think she's dernic

[hollow lynx]

Actually

[slim belfry]

she's heavily implied to be whatever lived in fruma before the queen

[tepid blade]

This is actually similar to one of my theories in that the colorless thread within our character either represents balance (or life)

[hollow lynx]

Forget what I said

[rotund gust]

i think two is definitely associated with dark somehow. Just based on the colors used in her design

[hollow lynx]

She and mr. Ending speak in a similar manner to eachother

[mint gull]

funny how orphion and saphanis are like when you meet someone who is too much like you and you start to hate their guts

[slim belfry]

she probably liked how dernic stuff looked lol

[tepid blade]

Mr. Ending?

[hollow lynx]

Hunters calling

[slim belfry]

this is something I pointed out

[mint gull]

my crackpot theory is that mr.ending is bob

[gleaming apex]

The reason I think this is just because of how she has titles flashing in two different colors, and how the ones in grey are all related to balance/order, which could imply some kind of realm of order/balance existing beforehand

[mint gull]

dead af

[hollow lynx]

She says choices, choices, choices

Which is like

[slim belfry]

I think realm beasts have at least one person appointed with seeing ends

[hollow lynx]

Come on

[rotund gust]

i think that’s just talking about her desire to be the queen of fruma, not her nature as a beast of who used to be order

[mint gull]

ugh, too big image

[slim belfry]

so ??? is either the portal guardian as always thought or the dark scion

[rotund gust]

thematically the role she chooses vs. the role she was born for makes for a better story then “the nature she has vs… the other nature she has”

[gleaming apex]

I disagree

[hollow lynx]

Two seems to have left some place or someone as we see in her memory

[mint gull]

I believe is quite tragic how all the beasts have an innate desire for dominance, like Ana dominating Fruma, Orphion and Saphanis for obvious reasons and us for "forcing" our resolution and desires upon the world

[hollow lynx]

Hollow knight pale beings ahh

[mint gull]

true

[slim belfry]

I call this the beast mentality

[gleaming apex]

Another thing is that the titles flashing before a fight are always what someone IS, instead of what they're trying to be. I also am unsure if the titles in grey even apply to her actions as queen.

[rotund gust]

they also talk a lot related to the queen about how she tore herself out of war, how she chose fruma and saw the beauty in it. A lot of emphasis is put on choice in fruma. And her being a reflection of the war of realms i just don’t think works with her being a remanifestation of order and war together

[hasty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/hehehe-mrbeast-mr-beast-gif-12965960423730225064

[gleaming apex]

I am not saying she is order and war together, I'm saying she was made from the broken pieces of order maybe, and that's why those titles keep intruding when they don't apply to her

[slim belfry]

oh right last convo reminded me I need to add to the player ref doc I have

[rotund gust]

i don’t think that’s fair. There’s a lot of titles which are both.

like yes with orphion and the parasite that’s fair. But many of the boss titles are also just titles. hashr usurper of the sands, arakadicus queen of spiders

[gleaming apex]

At this point we're pretty far into just speculation territory, so agree to disagree?

[rotund gust]

fair but one last thing

[slim belfry]

yeah the only concrete thing we have is this

[tepid blade]

Okay quick question, do you think the last line that Orphion says at the end of the dialogue they have after the Nexus of Light boss fight is in reference to the Fruman Queen? It goes by "She must be snuffed out. Her influence feeds this senseless war."

[gleaming apex]

Where was that confirmed?

[rotund gust]

but they do apply to her as the queen.

order upholding, bringer of balance, her majesty. even equilibrium incarnate, since her plan is just to remove darks advantage not to remove the war itself

mayhem made manifest, heart of hatred, chaos unfurling fit her nature as the war beast.

destruction unwilling being its own color is because it’s the convergence of the two. as queen she doesn’t want fruma destroyed, but as the war beast her nature is to destroy

ok i’m done

[hollow lynx]

Everything felt extremely staged from the beginning which is in my opinion the most interesting detail

[rotund gust]

mb mixed up which were which colors

fixed it

[misty horizon]

does anyone have all dialogues from ||anathema last speech?||

i wanna see all combinations

[mint gull]

Of course, bro is keeping up with the i'm good they're bad act

[slim belfry]

||https://docs.google.com/document/d/1FeIyKgKSvTZc9R2xyJXjibaLKravjEqveKG5sB87iG8||

[misty horizon]

thank you pal

[rotund gust]

bro is fully manipulating us to take out the queen so he can make a play to take over the word without risk of mutually assured destruction

[slim belfry]

np

[tepid blade]

True, but to be fair I never thought Orphion was as good as it was acting, anyone who forces you to side with that Iron Golem creating madman has to be evil in my mind

[mint gull]

he didn't even spare a single line to say anything about lari getting kidnapped

[hollow lynx]

Orphion is thinking 23 steps ahead

[mint gull]

"necessary evil" speech can get you pretty far as a figure of ultimate power

our sacred monoliths vs their despicable spires and all that

[hollow lynx]

Both of the beasts seem to really like necessary evil. Orphion makes us kill the detective and the queen considers the washing away situation something that must happen

[rotund gust]

knowing orphion was manipulating us to take out queen does recontextualize the light forest ultimate secret. Dark is gloating about how it’s winning and going to take over. Meanwhile orphion knows about the player’s existence and maybe that’s why he’s so confident

[verbal canopy]

Man

Wynncraft's first yuri, and it's doomed old woman yuri

[mint gull]

The og beast dropped thousands of offspring into dubious liquid. they can't compare

[tepid blade]

Okay, I created an insane theory today about how Lari getting kidnapped was Orphion's plan all along during the Realm of Light quest, as while Lari was loyal to light in her mind, not in her actions, which made her a loose end in Orphion's eyes. The reason it didn't make us (the player character) do it was because it still needed her powers to fix the realm of light so you could get to them and fight the parasite.

[rustic nexus]

we need more yuri in wynn

[tepid blade]

do it as in getting rid of her ourselves

[mint gull]

I don't think it even cared for Lari tbh

[hollow lynx]

If orphion knoes what we are, then it most likely means we do not have a beast inside of us

[rotund gust]

i’m so ready for wastelands to expand on project hallowground and tell us about whatever primordial earth was used to create the changelings and what it is

[mint gull]

like, she was nothing in his eyes

[verbal canopy]

surprised it took this long for any

[mint gull]

since she didn't really served his purpose

[rotund gust]

or we DOES know we have one, and he knows he can manipulate us for his own end since we don’t know. I’m not fully on board with player = physical beast but there’s probably something like that

[verbal canopy]

there's been some yaoi for a while

[rustic nexus]

yeah there's been yaoi for ages

[mint gull]

sound like some chaos sea from LOTM ngl

[hollow lynx]

That would actually be even more likely therefore my crack theory is gaining merit

[mint gull]

i'm one hand the queen had to really look into it. in the other we were really exposed to orphion influence

so 5050

[rotund gust]

player = physical scion i think is a bit more likely just cause the player being a god is a bit lame imo but still

[mint gull]

i like physical scion too

[rustic nexus]

actually wait @verbal canopy we actually also have nonbinary yuri in the form of afelis and the mysterious E woman we never hear about

[mint gull]

will of the world

[hollow lynx]

May I ask, what is a scion in wynncraft?

[mint gull]

think of lari

and bak'al

[rotund gust]

Person empowered by a force.
Bak’al, the sovereigns and lari

[hollow lynx]

Oh

Ty

[rustic nexus]

a person who serves a realm who has been given power from the beast of said realm

[verbal canopy]

The only yuri Wynn has is doomed

what did they mean by this

[tepid blade]

I personally don't think we are either a god nor a scion, as either would kind of cheapen the story in my mind, but I do think that we are something special

[rustic nexus]

who has been marked in a way to receive a shared part of the beast's powers

[rotund gust]

Bak’al is wars lost scion (since he defected)
Two calls tasim a “fellow scion” confirming the sovereigns are also scions because they were given a portion of anathemas power
lari is the light scions.

two mentions anathema creating so many scions weakened her A LOT

and presumably a scion dying doesn’t return the power to the beast

[hollow lynx]

Hear me out

[rustic nexus]

do you think killing sovereigns actually gave back some of the power she had lent to her sovereigns

[tepid blade]

I would assume no

[rustic nexus]

insane

[hollow lynx]

What if orphion was the one who staged everything involving us from the beginning

[rotund gust]

So the queen has created tons and tons.
And light losing 1 scion in lari is considered a trade by two, now think about how many sovereigns existed

[hollow lynx]

It would certainly make sense

[mint gull]

Would it cheapen though? The world thats being used as plaything for things more powerful, the people suffering in their hands and it finally takes action to fight against them?

[rustic nexus]

but then each dead sovereign is just a permanent loss of power then

[mint gull]

if you think about it revolution and resistance is all over in wynncraft

[rotund gust]

i don’t think so. Otherwise lari being lost to dark wouldn’t be considered a price paid for taking out the parasite since the power would go back to light.

[rustic nexus]

we don't know if lari is dead though

[mint gull]

she isn't

is kinda implied

[rustic nexus]

yeah

[mint gull]

that she's captive by dern?

[hollow lynx]

Where?

[rustic nexus]

so like why would that matter for lari/the light

[mint gull]

i think

[rustic nexus]

if dying grants back the power you had to the beast

[tepid blade]

That is what I think what happened to her

[rustic nexus]

yeah she's definitely just captive

[mint gull]

she's probably in a cage just like the ones she put dernmites in

lmao

i really hope we don't fight her tho

[rustic nexus]

I'm 50/50 on if we're gonna fight her

[rotund gust]

dying returning the power would also create a bit of a plot hole. Otherwise light and dark would be appointing scions constantly to fight each other since there’s no real downside

[tepid blade]

I personally like stories of normal human beings using their own abilities (or powers) to fight near impossible odds against beings much more powerful than them

[rustic nexus]

fym no downside

[mint gull]

that's Bob

[rustic nexus]

the beasts become weaker

and if just ONE parasite could do so much damage

[mint gull]

I don't think the beasts are investing that much power as you're talking tbf

[rustic nexus]

imagine what it would be like if orphion was weaker by having a dozen scions

[hollow lynx]

I propose that both light and dark can't traverse the void.

My evidence for this is that the parasite can't go to the cotl because the collosus is there which is said to wield the void

[tepid blade]

I think the only reason we would fight her is if she has been corrupted or possessed by the dark somehow (such as through a parasite)

[mint gull]

like, ana was a exception since she was a shell and limited

but the other two?

that's like a drop in the sea

probably

[rotund gust]

yeah but if the scion dies and the power just goes back to the beast there isn’t really a downside to appointing since amount of power held by that “side” stays the same
Unless power just disappears in the process of making a scion.

makes more sense for scions to be a permanent lose of power for a beast. Which is why orphion doesn’t create more to fight the parasite, one is already a gamble since it’s a permanent loss in power for the war

[rustic nexus]

but then why wouldn't anathema not protect her sovereigns more

[mint gull]

why would she?

her sovereigns are like top tier

[rustic nexus]

they're extensions of her power

[mint gull]

and she could take the blessing from them

[rotund gust]

i mean she seems pretty confident in their power to handle themselves and gets really mad when they can’t . Also that would explain why she doesn’t just kill soosu beyond just “death is too good for you”

[mint gull]

if they rebelled

[rustic nexus]

the first zhiraok fight should've been enough to start ringing the alarm bells

[rotund gust]

she does offer to take soosu’s away.

[tepid blade]

She probably couldn't protect them in the idea that one, they are very powerful even alone, and two, she is limited by a physical form in our reality unlike Orphion or the Beast of Dern

[gilded gazelle]

random question, does anyone know who the "him" is that Anathema mentions when you talk to her after defeating her

[rustic nexus]

yeah but I think the Weaver would've been how that is done though

[eternal helm]

Btw any theories on what the added weight is for the dark? My mind first went to Bob but that doesn’t make sense bc he existed only like 800 ap not before the queens time

[rustic nexus]

bak'al

[gilded gazelle]

aahah

thats what i was thinking

but i wasnt sure

so he was one of hers? before he went corrupt

[rustic nexus]

he is the first sovereign, the first scion of war

[mint gull]

Bak'al, the parasite screwing orphion, possibly bob

[gilded gazelle]

interesting

[mint gull]

It's better to talk in terms of influence than power i think

[tepid blade]

I would assume Bak'al as he wasn't originally a servant of the dark

[rustic nexus]

no clue, but it could be something from the physical plane since it's something "beyond it" maybe

[mint gull]

as one influence dimishes the other gets bigger

[rotund gust]

fair, but that leads even more credence to blessings being a “permanent” loss in power. Without the weaver to transfer the power back into the queen the queen can’t afford to kill soosu since her power is still in soosu.

[mint gull]

she also didn't take syndra's blessing away

[rustic nexus]

syndra's blessing....

[tepid blade]

good point

[mint gull]

which makes sense if she needed the thingamabob

[rotund gust]

syndras “blessing” is just her using a foci

someone confirmed it back in story spoilers

[tepid blade]

ah

[rustic nexus]

was it a CT

[mint gull]

true

[rotund gust]

i believe so

[rustic nexus]

mmm

[tepid blade]

What is a CT?

[mint gull]

Syndra's cursed technique

[tepid blade]

oh

[rotund gust]

or atleast they said that only the sovereigns get blessings in the sense of being granted power by the queen

[mint gull]

Content team

[rustic nexus]

cuz the queen in the echoes of change cutscenes says she gave her the blessing

so like

?

[rotund gust]

and we never see syndra use magic without her spear

[rustic nexus]

true

[rotund gust]

well that could also be her being given and trained with her focus

[rustic nexus]

ig it should be worded better in that cutscene ig

yea

[rotund gust]

there’s a lot of confusing wording with blessing and curses rn

[rustic nexus]

that's what I was thinking

I hate the fact that sovereign blessings and just using magic approved by the crown BOTH use the same term

[tepid blade]

Wasn't Syndra a sovereign once? I thought it was mention that she was one in Echoes of Change?

[rustic nexus]

😭

[rustic nexus]

she was going to be

but she never was

[tepid blade]

ah

[rustic nexus]

she was a gendarme though

[rotund gust]

anathema making a bunch of mini scions with her high ranking soldiers like syndra would make sense and account her why she’s so weak beyond just powering the sovereigns. But also we never see any of the soldiers/blessed frumans use magic without weapons, which fits with them just getting foci and their “blessings” just being permission to use magic

[rustic nexus]

yea

server invite filter fail

[rotund gust]

lmao

[rustic nexus]

👏

[mint gull]

does anyone know why that one knight in the ana raid looks like the knight from deltarune lmao?

it has antlers

[rustic nexus]

because deusphage thought the roaring knight looked cool

[tepid blade]

The Knightmare? yeah, kind of

[rotund gust]

she was a contender to be the next auburn sovereign but then she refused to end the yuri for the queen

[hasty beacon]

I was too busy beating its ass to get a good look at it

[rustic nexus]

in yuri we trust 🫡

[rotund gust]

i’m still wondering if it’s meant to be the same gendarme we kill when escaping the palace

[mint gull]

I tried ana just once and she spawned a nuke and killed everyone

[rustic nexus]

most likely

[mint gull]

that's what i thought

cuz tasim mentions they're nowhere to be seem

[summer bluff]

Yeah you gotta kill the nuke before it detonates

[rustic nexus]

taism says this about the gendarme commander

[exotic bough]

That’s ||hyhet||

[rotund gust]

it’s not the same room but like, Knightmare does not seem to be alive. that’s a lot of blood coming out of its chest for a living creature

[rustic nexus]

the guy from the boss altar

[summer bluff]

Gendarme commander is the boss altar

[gleaming apex]

I will say she says that the Beasts don't realize what they missed, meaning that she at least thinks they don't know about us

[rustic nexus]

that dude is corrupt as SHIIIIT

[mint gull]

she wasn't in the room where it happened tho

[rustic nexus]

it spawns corruption spikes as an attack and spews out blood that damages you

[mint gull]

as in RoL

[rustic nexus]

there's no way that's a real alive person anymore

[shut hornet]

its a corrupted yea

[rustic nexus]

yea

[mint gull]

but like, maybe orphion would've just obliterated us?

[shut hornet]

the other mobs in the room are too

[gleaming apex]

I figured that she thinks they would've been acting differently if they really knew what was inside us

[hollow lynx]

Makes sense

[rotund gust]

your right. But that could also just be implying the don’t realize the extent of what they over looked. Like maybe orphion doesn’t realize just how much of “physicality” we have in us, just that we have something. It’s pretty damning but not theory killing

[rustic nexus]

and we only see one gendarme roaring knight in the palace

so it makes sense for it to be the same one imo

[mint gull]

Orphion was really weak too

and we never see him again

[rotund gust]

i mean orphion wasn’t trying to kill us

[eternal helm]

Btw does the WTP raid existing mean that ||we aren’t getting RoW anymore.. like a expansion Ik we “got it” bc we go into the area during the raid||

[rotund gust]

orphion was just thrashing

[rustic nexus]

they've said they want to do more with RoW

[hasty beacon]

Well its not like we saw that much of it

[mint gull]

i don't think we would ever get the RoW

[rotund gust]

if anything orphion was just having a mental breakdown during the raid, not trying to kill us

[eternal helm]

!!!! OMG

[mint gull]

oh shit fr?

[rustic nexus]

yeah in story spoilers

and in DMs

[hasty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/minecraft-minecraft-movie-a-minecraft-movie-steve-jack-black-gif-8675616492999829547

[rotund gust]

but anathema literally tells us not to come back since there’s nothing else for us in the realm of war 😭

[eternal helm]

^ that’s what made me scared

[mint gull]

I believe the RoW is something that would be much better described with words than in minecraft. Like the amount of chaos and anger and death and survival and blood

[rustic nexus]

ok but who's to say we have to enter after wtp....

[mint gull]

but i hope they try

[rotund gust]

true

[mint gull]

when did that stop us

[tepid blade]

True

[rustic nexus]

TRUE

[mint gull]

Full Body Anni Event

[hollow lynx]

Realm of war?

[shut mist]

||theres rivers of blood in ROW||

[rotund gust]

so true

[mint gull]

ONG

[hasty beacon]

Anni part 2 where we go into the portal to chop off her legs so she stops going to wynn

[mint gull]

seas of blood even

[rustic nexus]

yeah and that's where the devils spawn from

[shut mist]

Yeah

Also

[fossil marten]

So ‘the missing piece’ quests story and lore was. Really something.

[rotund gust]

full body anni fight where it’s like attack on titan or shadow of the colossus

[tepid blade]

That shit was fucked up, in a good way

[shut mist]

||why tf is there so many dead devils in the raid like tf is going on||

[hollow lynx]

So the portal is to the realm of war?

[rotund gust]

||i mean war doesn’t really seem unified. Maybe the devils just killed eachother||

[fossil marten]

Im never going to recover i just thought it was a silly post quest and then i got punched in the heart 27 times

[mint gull]

here in brazil there's an rpg called ordem paranormal where there exists a dimension of blood that is described as an inverted ocean of blood, turbulent. but when you look closely is not actually water but countless monsters squirming and fighting

[hollow lynx]

Where anni comes from

[mint gull]

i see the RoW like that

[rustic nexus]

||you expect there to NOT be corpses in the realm of WAR? c'mon now||

[hasty beacon]

Yea the big one is

[misty horizon]

||wait wtf, Bak'Al and Two are son and daughter of Anathema?||

||am I understanding this correctly?||

[rustic nexus]

...SURE, IN A WAY

[rotund gust]

i mean… yeah kinda

[hasty beacon]

https://tenor.com/view/i-guess-bro-i-guess-bro-bro-what-whatever-you-say-gif-16572066316579867256

[rustic nexus]

😭

[tepid blade]

no genuinely it started off a bit funny but then it punches in the gut like 8 times

[rotund gust]

like adopted children

[eternal helm]

I wonder when we will see ||Sohso||

[mint gull]

Corrupted son or edgy daughter

[rustic nexus]

wastelands

1000%

[hollow lynx]

Two doesn't really seem to be related to anathema in any way

[rotund gust]

it’s a better reading then the bak’al x anathema romance reading of it

[misty horizon]

but it's true right?

[solar ingot]

maybe

[misty horizon]

like i don't wanna be confused lol

[fossil marten]

It took me like 5 minutes to be able to breath because i was crying so hard and finish the last task. This game is evil sick and twisted

[slim belfry]

the queen speaking about bak'al like an ex

[rustic nexus]

IN A WAY YEAH SURE

[misty horizon]

?

[solar ingot]

Two was ||previous saphanis scion||

[mint gull]

I mean she did love him

[shut mist]

||yeah but i wouldve expected devils yo attack anything near the roots if that was the case||

[mint gull]

but not as a lover

[rotund gust]

yeah, and loving bak’al and two like children seems a much better and more valid reading then loving them like lover

[hollow lynx]

Could be the case but then it almost seems like the person in hunters calling would also be a scion

[misty horizon]

?

[eternal helm]

Can we make a Ne du Valeos du Ellach (The War Of The Realms) family tree

[tepid blade]

That would not surprise me seeing how she does have a mostly dark color scheme

[mint gull]

me when my children abandon me for the abusive thing that created me

[rotund gust]

https://tenor.com/view/look-away-nolan-grayson-omni-man-invincible-head-turn-gif-21376177

[misty horizon]

can I get eli5 please

[rotund gust]

anathema be lile

[solar ingot]

also, it looks like a beast can have multiple scions

[misty horizon]

i don't understand this chat

[rotund gust]

he’s more like a pet

[mint gull]

lmao

[hollow lynx]

Yeah

But there isn't a lot of evidence for two being the scion of sephanim that I can think of

[solar ingot]

but what is exactly a scion?

[tepid blade]

We (as the people here) were discussing this earlier, and it seems like the reason they don't create more is that if they lose one then they don't get that power back

[hollow lynx]

Sovereign, baakal, lari

[tepid blade]

A person who gets gifted powers by a beast

[rotund gust]

queen does love bak’al. Two as well it seems. What form that love took isn’t really elaborated on but loving them like children seems the most valid interpretation.

[eternal helm]

wtf is the difference between pulse vs scion

[rustic nexus]

realm beast servant with their share of their power

[tepid blade]

Is this stated in the Queen's post raid dialouge?

[rotund gust]

i mean

[misty horizon]

ohhh, that's why ||I have only had two followers… which I could truly claim… as my own.||

it's ||followers, not childrens||

🥀

[rotund gust]

just look at how she talks about him when talking about how she almost killed him

[rustic nexus]

...used to

[rotund gust]

and how much she hates him for betraying her

[snow kiln]

I think u meant that she used to love him

yeah

blud helped her get out after all

[rotund gust]

yeah i did

[tepid blade]

When does she talk about this agian? I don't remember seeing this

[rustic nexus]

the beef between anathema and bak'al is insane

[snow kiln]

raid

[rotund gust]

i forget what dialogue tree it is

but when she talks about “him” lying almost dead on the ground. And all the crash outs about “him”

him is bak’al

[solar ingot]

Could u consider Charon another war scion? or just another creature from war realm like anni?

[rustic nexus]

CHARON 💔

[tepid blade]

oh, well I did interact with her, but couldn't get through the dialogue tree fully as I got disconnected from the server

[rustic nexus]

ALWAYS BET ON CHARON SIGNIFICANCE

[hasty beacon]

I always forget dungeon bosses

[misty horizon]

For the timeline:

||Miners open the portal||
||Bak'al Enters, starts the chaos||
||200 years later Anathema shows to realm as well||

[mint gull]

Do we think that Bak'Al betrayed her by wanting to destroy the world she loved and turn into what she hated or something personal?

[misty horizon]

is that right?

[rustic nexus]

HE'S THE REAL POTENTIAL MAN VILLAIN

[rustic nexus]

yea

[rotund gust]

charon is so stupid lmfao. The lore has expanded so much and he’s just still there, 0 significance to the wider world

[mint gull]

when do they open the portal?

[hasty beacon]

0ap duhhh

[misty horizon]

why did Bak'al betrayed her tho

[tepid blade]

1000 years ago, approximately

[snow kiln]

200 years between bak'al entering and queen appearing, seriously?

[rustic nexus]

cuz she betrayed him first

[rotund gust]

1st time we have no idea. We also don’t know when they close
2nd time is 0AP aka 1000 years before the story.

[misty horizon]

how?

[rustic nexus]

by deciding to rule over fruma

after destroying the old fruma

and being basically the same

[mint gull]

lmfao

[rustic nexus]

WHAT

I WAS ABLE TO READ THAT

[hasty beacon]

What was that link bro

[snow kiln]

the ad?

[rustic nexus]

HOLY THIRST POSTING

[mint gull]

didn't show for me

[snow kiln]

it showed for me for a pico secon

[misty horizon]

iirc Queen started her ruling of fruma by 200 AP

200 years after the portal

[rustic nexus]

it began in 200ap

[misty horizon]

while Bak'al started chaos right after the opening

[rotund gust]

Bak’al convinced the queen to destroy old fruma. But then he wanted to keep on destroying while she wanted to build something from the ashes

[tepid blade]

Does anyone else think that Bak'al is kind of a coward, as the only two times he is ever equally matched (Bob and Lari) he just runs away

[hollow lynx]

What is IA?

[misty horizon]

oh i see

[hasty beacon]

Yea bakal is a fraud

Cant even beat lari

[rustic nexus]

yeah he is lmfao

[mint gull]

Bak'al is on fraud watch

[misty horizon]

so Bak'al and Queen worked together, but at some point she wanted to escape all of this

[mint gull]

bro only won against normal soldiers

[misty horizon]

and create peaceful place

[snow kiln]

btw can someone rq explain what the years mean in fruma, KA, NA, IA?

[mint gull]

got his ass kicked by the corrupter

[rustic nexus]

where's that one zhiraok quote calling majin a fraud

we need it for bak'al too

[snow kiln]

"you insignificant fuck"?

[hollow lynx]

Yeah, like an ex

[split night]

Everyone consider Bak'al a fraud, dw
all of his win were on random detlas soldier and citizen
he'd fold or die if he face us

[tepid blade]

That would work

[solar ingot]

Royal Age, New Age, Industrial Age

[misty horizon]

lowkey zhiraok went from generational bum to generational goat

[mint gull]

don't know

[solar ingot]

not sure what was KA

[rustic nexus]

true

[hasty beacon]

Knowledge age

[snow kiln]

Mb mistyped

thanks

[rustic nexus]

zhiraok is goated

[hollow lynx]

Zhiroak goated

[mint gull]

Zhiraok was only a bum because he was the only one working

[rustic nexus]

TRUE

[rotund gust]

he goes on corrupting in wynn and she builds up in fruma. They tolerate each other (she mentions how she detested corruption but let “him” spread it since it made her stronger)

eventually he leaves her for dark. We don’t know when this happens exactly. My best guess is when he loses to bob for lack of a different event to act as the catalyst for this change

[misty horizon]

he was bum because bunch of forest kids kicked his ass

[mint gull]

literally didn't want to kill not even the resistance because they were frumans

[split night]

Zhiraok and Soosu is the only 2 respectable Crown members tbh
cuz they either genuinely want to help the citizens or want to help us

[snow kiln]

dude we need pre-portal Bak'al backstory 😭

[tepid blade]

How do you folks pronounce Zhiraok's name? I always pronounced it like Ziroak

[misty horizon]

tbf the only reason Soosu was helping is because she wanted to die

[mint gull]

i think when he loses he's already with saph

[misty horizon]

Zhiraok is the only goat who wanted to help people

[rustic nexus]

apparently like "sheer-oak"

[tepid blade]

bruh

[rustic nexus]

I personally replace the sh with z anyway

[split night]

and also the guy helping her remind her of her younger self

[mint gull]

i always thought it was Zee-rah-ok

[misty horizon]

ye

[snow kiln]

I'll have to consult the VoW mod for this answer

[misty horizon]

like lowkey Zhiraok in 20 years made his region better

[rustic nexus]

HIS NAME IS YUSANU

[rotund gust]

yeah we don’t know though. I just say bob since it’s the only significant event we have to push that. And bak’al’s destruction (2?) got changed to say “all in the name of wars conquest” or something like that.
Bak’al was working in wars name in wynn for atleast a while. Him being beaten by bob makes sense as a reason for him flipping sides too. He loses and so flips to dark for even more power

[misty horizon]

while Soosu with her inventions didn't change that much

[slim belfry]

VoW has the official pronunciation yeah

[snow kiln]

still no water cause of majin

[split night]

I HAVE THE MEMORY OF A GOLDFISH OKAY 😭

[snow kiln]

soosu arguably made it worse

driving up productivity to the point of making people unable to sleep

[misty horizon]

uhh i would argue, since people worked the same

[hollow lynx]

Majin is atleast not a coward

[rich scarab]

||and almost a lot of water because of the queen!||

[rustic nexus]

WHAT WERE THE NAMES OF THE RANDOM GUYS THAT DID BARELY ANYTHING IN THE LEAVES IN THE WIND AND STEEL FEATHER, HUH?

[misty horizon]

"at least not a coward", the only reason bum was winning is because of cosmic power

[snow kiln]

yeah but now water if filled with shit, its noisy, dirty and disgusting, they have no trees, everything is smog

[misty horizon]

he then disappeared like a bum

[rustic nexus]

I BET YOU DONT REMEMBER JIRO AND KAIO

[snow kiln]

You can't sleep well in conditions like that

[misty horizon]

lowkey wtf happened to Jiro

[hasty beacon]

Yea i remember them

[solar ingot]

||JIRO IS DEAAAAAAAAAAAD||

[misty horizon]

bro dipped after Roughwork arc

[rustic nexus]

slimed and replaced by changeling

[split night]

she just make modern day
the thing is, industrial district would work the same way even without her, they would be farmers working tirelessly because of her's majesty
Soosu invention just make them work with improved quality of life

[snow kiln]

they literally already got portraits

[hollow lynx]

The only reason you were winning is because of magic

[rustic nexus]

just recently

[hasty beacon]

Ohhh was he the leak mentioned by tasim?

[split night]

I do remember those guy cuz I love my goat Aledar

[misty horizon]

where?

[rich scarab]

kaio i remember only as the one random guy who got a portrait in a patch between me doing roughworks and highlands so this random guy with like 3 lines had a portrait and i was very confused

[snow kiln]

Like a couple days ago

[misty horizon]

ah i see

[snow kiln]

The roughworks used to be paddy fields, look at it now 😭

[split night]

slavery

[misty horizon]

who is Kaio tho to Syndra

[snow kiln]

the capitalist slog is modern slavery but I digress

[rustic nexus]

another member of the leaves

[slim belfry]

if fossil fuels exist in wynn roughworks would be worse than current day roughworks

[snow kiln]

A high ranking member of the leaves that she trusts a lot clearly

[misty horizon]

from their dialogue to each other it seems like they knew each other for a very long time

I even assumed that he is lowkey her brother atp

[snow kiln]

must be if she left the leaves to him

[mint gull]

the real random goat is that mf from the fruma guard training that goes to the revs

[snow kiln]

He appears to be much younger, at least from his portrait

[rich scarab]

wait kaio is from the leaves? i thought he was just some random mid ranking guy in the steel feather 😭

[hasty beacon]

All of fruma would be dead

[snow kiln]

like Syndra is like 50-60

assuming she and elise are simmilar in age

[solar ingot]

i hate that i haven't see a single "0 days without an accident" joke on roughworks

[snow kiln]

she leaves the leaves to him when u leave

he was on that table

[cinder cedar]

Elise is 70 if I remember it correctly

[snow kiln]

ah explains her posture

[hollow lynx]

She looks 90

[snow kiln]

and

death

[rotund gust]

also my personal theory is the writer of the 1st rosetta (the one with architect/grimtrap ontop of it) is bak’al under a different name.

queen mentions bak’al was scorned for his magic. the writer of the stone talks about how they want to save fruma. Bak’al tries, gets rejected and maybe exiled to wynn, finds his way into the RoW somehow, meets the queen, gets his scionhood and disillusioned with the fruman government (and probably a bit evilier due to raw hatred being infused in him) convinced anathema to destroy fruma for him. She does that, takes over, bak’al leaves for wynn to cause more destruction and then we see him for the first time in bak’als destructions.

thats how i read it with what we have

[slim belfry]

syndra was confirmed to be around 40s

[solar ingot]

YOOO

[split night]

Kaio is ||Aledar||'s friend before Aledar got ||exiled||

[solar ingot]

wth dude

[hollow lynx]

Holdup

[misty horizon]

huh?

[hasty beacon]

Where was this lore

[split night]

huh, she's much younger than I thought

[rustic nexus]

zhiraok: "soosu! your district is rapidly losing affordable housing! people are getting subtracted by living near the infected rivers!"
soosu: "7 thousand tons of asphalt. eat these slums"

[snow kiln]

there's a 1st rosetta?

[split night]

interact with Aledar grave in the leave in the wind base

[slim belfry]

gosh

LOL

[snow kiln]

dude who's advertising this shit

[tepid blade]

Wait, wouldn't that make Bak'al the first soldier from Fruma sent to Wynn if you think about it?

[solar ingot]

yo pls stop spamming furry discord servers

[split night]

thirsty people

[snow kiln]

excuse moi??

[rotund gust]

there’s the one overlooking ragni and there’s the one in roughworks with the earth dagger ontop of it

[snow kiln]

god zamn I needa check this out

[snow kiln]

Ah I never found the roughworks one

[hollow lynx]

Oh that one

[misty horizon]

that doesn't makes sense, since Bak'Al was attacking from Detlas

shouldn't he attack from ragni?

[rustic nexus]

why the fuck does the first rosetta have a music trigger for the UR music 😭 😭 😭

[snow kiln]

He attacked all the cities

[mint gull]

wait, if aledar was actually from the leaves it would make sense why we tell tasim that maybe he didn't know aledar at all

[snow kiln]

Akias was his biggest one

[split night]

There is also a post raid interaction here too
You can only get the Kaio dialog about Aledar if you haven't done the quest that move everyone over here I think

[rich scarab]

not really, fruma was already a place before the queen came and took over

[slim belfry]

I think it's right next to UR LOL

[rotund gust]

ct confirmed that’s not intended. Just cause undergrowth is behind the walls so the music trigger overlaps

[snow kiln]

god dammnit

[misty horizon]

ye, but it was starting from detlas, Nivla Woods secret discovery shows that

they were defending from Bak'al for several years

[solar ingot]

I feel like

[snow kiln]

Akias was his first attack?

[rotund gust]

yeah bak’al was just causing problems all over wynn for decades.

[snow kiln]

oh mb then

[split night]

always check your surrounding ay? xd
it's okay try fruma on a new save and search for the Leave in the Wind base that time

[rotund gust]

we only see 3 of them

[solar ingot]

you need to fight bakal at some point between lvl 80-100

[snow kiln]

I would've never thought to go back lmfao

[misty horizon]

where is the post raid interaction?

i wanna read all of them

[tepid blade]

Well I know not really, but if you think about it, he and the player character were both exiled from Fruma for separate reasons only to come back and topple the current order

[solar ingot]

and then the rematch after fruma stuff

[rotund gust]

i think we just need to see him win at some point.

or confirmation that he could’ve beaten lari and threw the fight to lure her to the realm of dark

[split night]

I did because I missed Aledar so I want to visit his grave, I didn't know there was a post raid interaction at his grave xD

[solar ingot]

like, if i'm forced to fight bakal at rol 5

[snow kiln]

wait is the grave there from the second you enter fruma?

[split night]

at aledar grave, you will find two letters from tasim and Aledar

[rich scarab]

bak'al was a menace to wynn all over for centuries, he got corrupted in 0AP and bob only beat him like 120 years ago

[solar ingot]

and it's a scripted defeat, it would make sense

[snow kiln]

and bro still ain't dead 🙃

[split night]

Aledar was a ||member of the Leave in the Wind|| that's why his grave is in their base

[snow kiln]

That's incredible lore, seriously man CT was cooking with this

do we know what the player or tasim were before they got ba-sing-sae'd?

[solar ingot]

also, this grave was made because he was exiled

[tepid blade]

That is actually kind of what I assumed based on my theory from earlier about Orphion plotting the whole Realm of Light quests as an attempt to get rid of Lari, Orphion expected or knew that Bak'al would try to stop us, get out matched, and try to retreat

[solar ingot]

they don't know he's dead

[split night]

Yeah I was genuinely surprise knowing that and he also have friend in here too
CHECK the post raid interaction, there is huge lore as well

[rustic nexus]

I KNEW IT 😭

[snow kiln]

will do

[split night]

they just kinda assume anyone going to that ass prison always result in death

[tepid blade]

I did not know that he has a grave in fruma and now i'm sad I never saw it

[drifting aurora]

fk did i not fix this properly

i added a silence music region around it

[rustic nexus]

haven't checked recently

let me go look

[snow kiln]

make it hardcore russian dubstep pwease <3

[split night]

2 Letters in a pot next to his grave btw, you will see Tasim when you're here, his grave on the right side of the Leave in the Wind base's entrance

[tepid blade]

Will Tasim be there after the main Fruma quest?

[split night]

boat, all this just make me love Aledar so much, he was a great hero IN fruma and out, he always is a hero

[rich scarab]

what are the coords for the roughworks rosetta/shrine/thing?

[rotund gust]

I said it in story spoilers but i’ll say it again here. With all the info we have on bak’al now i think it’s really likely he threw the fight with Lari in RoL 5.

he got the strongest blessing out of any war scion (his blessing almost killed him while the sovereigns were given while the queen was in her shell, they were more focused an contained) plus whatever was done to him to keep him alive.

Then he joins dark, he definitely got some power out of that, maybe even a second scion blessing.

He’s also an experienced fighter who the queen describes as incredibly good with magic (anathemas blessing in her weakened state kills us if we try to take it while bak’al survived it barely survived. He also built the resonance weaver)

there’s no way he loses to lari in a straight fight.

[split night]

yeah it's a post raid interaction

Tasim was visiting Aledar grave

[rotund gust]

he definitely just wanted to lure lari into the realm of dark to capture her

[tepid blade]

Awwww, that's sweet

[snow kiln]

wait we can take a blessing from anathema?

[split night]

Yes you have to do Wartorn Palace

[rotund gust]

yeah

[snow kiln]

is this post raid dialogue?

[rotund gust]

one of the post raid options is “give me your power”

it just kills you lmfao

[snow kiln]

legit does it instakill you xD

[rotund gust]

it mutilates your body and kills you

[tepid blade]

No, I did that already, I was responding to your post below it but misclicked

[snow kiln]

player weakest character in the story legit

[rotund gust]

not weakest, but definitely weaker then pre-scion bak’al

[rustic nexus]

ok so good news and bad news

[rotund gust]

since he survived it

[split night]

okay gud, just check it
Aledar is very goated the more you learn about him

[rustic nexus]

there IS a silence trigger around it

but there's also an area you can still hear tribal drums beating

[split night]

I can't believe they make Aledar grave a missable interaction xd

[rotund gust]

i’m kinda sad that the highlands lake shrine hasn’t gotten any dialogue, and we haven’t gotten any other shrines implemented

[hexed birch]

Boy howdy i have news for you

[tepid blade]

That actually kind of believe, when compared to other powerful characters like Lari and Bak'al, but we are just so stupid determined and unwilling to give up that we just make it through anyway

[rotund gust]

oh no

[snow kiln]

yeah what are the mythic shrines for exactly, I've noticed them but I didn't figure out a way to do anything with em

[rotund gust]

is there another shrine now

fuuuuu

[hexed birch]

Nah but maybe revisit the lake one

[rotund gust]

i just looked at it yesterday

what

[hexed birch]

Oh

[snow kiln]

💀

[hexed birch]

Right click the spear?

[rotund gust]

yeah i tried

maybe it was just buggy?

[snow kiln]

wait how do the mythic shrines work, do you need a corresponding mythic to interact with it?

[misty horizon]

do we know what happens with others? post-raid

[snow kiln]

like do I need a thrunda for the lake shrine?

[rotund gust]

no

[misty horizon]

like is there any other dialogue except Tasim's?

fuck

[tepid blade]

Is this the spear shine at the bottom of the lake?

[snow kiln]

what so u just click it?

[split night]

CT is yet to add new post raid dialog im afraid

[hexed birch]

For the full dialogue yes, and its the fruman mythics

[rotund gust]

hold on i’ll go check that rn and send screenshots of the dialogue here

[hexed birch]

Should still have short text without the mythic

[snow kiln]

ah

[split night]

I've check every where and I found them nowhere post raid

[rotund gust]

wait what? you didn’t need architect for the 1st shrine

[misty horizon]

oh that would be nice

[snow kiln]

right so since the mythic fruman spear is 20 stx I'm screwe

[hexed birch]

It gives more with it

[mint gull]

maybe it's because of what we have? like trying to pour water in a full cup?

[split night]

I'd love to celebrate our victory with them xd

[hexed birch]

Both have been posted in the language thread if you want to see them

[rotund gust]

oh, i guess last time i check it was beta before architect was added

oh bet

[hexed birch]

Use discord search to find them

[rustic nexus]

OH SHI

[misty horizon]

high five to Rex

[rustic nexus]

THERE IS AN INTERACTION

[rotund gust]

WHaT

bless send screenshots of the legible text

[hexed birch]

Weathered? Spear? Thats not correct

[rotund gust]

also wait which fruma mythic is thunder spear

[hexed birch]

Restitution

Pretty sure

[rotund gust]

gotcha

[split night]

I lowkey thought Aledar was Rex's brother after the grave interaction

[rustic nexus]

this is the only two lines

[rotund gust]

hmmm

[tepid blade]

I think I got this interaction before, but couldn't do anything with it

[rotund gust]

must have more with restitution

[misty horizon]

wasn't letter in grave between Tasim and Aledar?

after Aledar death

[split night]

There is two grave interaction btw
one is in the first Leave in the Wind quest ( part 1 2 ) and the second is post raid

[misty horizon]

oh 💀

[snow kiln]

when you interact with the spear with the mythic its in fruman apparently

[split night]

the letters is a post raid thing

xd

[rustic nexus]

both are real gutpunches

[mint gull]

what are the ltters?

[snow kiln]

I don't think we have a cheatsheet for fruman cause its super complicated

basically its own language

[split night]

I LOVE ALEDAR!!! 😭

[misty horizon]

what is says in first one?

can i get the dialogues?

[solar ingot]

what's the 2nd?

[rotund gust]

the restitution dialogue also there? i tried searching and didn’t find anything

[hexed birch]

Language thread kinda does, and snerps doc has his translations on it, but yeah not like wynnic

[rustic nexus]

hold on I can forward it

[hexed birch]

Its a video iirc

[rustic nexus]

holy image wall

[hexed birch]

Let me see if i can find it

[rustic nexus]

and then there's

another letter you can read

which is a lot longer

[split night]

I forgot the details, it just say that Aledar was a ||Member of the leave in the wind|| and that he was their ||information scouter|| sorta like zeph, but got captured after ||the thing happen in memory||
This is all told from Kaio btw

[rustic nexus]

and I won't be sending cuz it's a lot longer

[hexed birch]

Restitution shrine with restitution #1489836179665981621 message

[split night]

It hurts rereading this again 😭

[solar ingot]

i think we all know who wrote this

[rotund gust]

yeah uh

ima just buy a restitution so i can screenshot it

[tepid blade]

Who?

[misty horizon]

dammit i should read this in second run ig

[split night]

duh
it's Tasim and Aledar xd

[split night]

you don't even need to read, there is a cutscene to it as well xd

[tepid blade]

Is this the letter before the raid, or after the raid?

[misty horizon]

maybe someone have video or dialogues

idk

surely someone does

[hexed birch]

The letter is after

[tepid blade]

ah, okay so this is one written by Tasim

[cinder cedar]

There’s footage of After Raid by the grave

[split night]

yeah the first one is written by Tasim, the second one is written by Aledar before SE

[tepid blade]

Are you able to forward it?

[cinder cedar]

Olinus streamed Fruma and filmed it and also reading the post raid letter

[misty horizon]

is there a footage of before raid?

[cinder cedar]

After

[split night]

How many of you missed the first grave interaction xd
damn

[tepid blade]

I didn't even know there was a grave, I thought that the entire place was empty outside of the quests (I definitely there should be more interactions with the other characters outside of the quests in the base)

[rotund gust]

it disappears after doing the cutscene

chat, ??? 2 time

[split night]

It feels like we're doing archeology xd

[rotund gust]

ignore my guild

[tepid blade]

Can anyone quickly translate what that says?

[rotund gust]

have they even deciphered the language yet? i haven't been keeping up with the conlang people

[hexed birch]

Its already been partially translated in the language thread, you can check the pinned doc by snerp in there

[tepid blade]

I think I heard they partially got it, but not all of it

[rotund gust]

fair

[misty horizon]

isn't there a stone with normal and fruman language?

[tepid blade]

Also is the Fruman language a one to one English alphabet or is not (if not then I like that)

[misty horizon]

i thought you could decipher from it

[hexed birch]

What happens if you try to interact after its gone btw. Same thing?

[rotund gust]

lemme go check

[hexed birch]

It only translates the symbols into letters. The words and grammar are also a custom language and need to be translated properly

[snow kiln]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bvjamsqt8nJMu69KDAwyVb3r44UX1pbXZvBveRm5LOM/edit?tab=t.rekm0ksqed4a

[misty horizon]

oh i see

[rotund gust]

it reappears if you go to far or /class i seems

lemme go through the scene again

[snow kiln]

I've been taking a read of this

[rotund gust]

theres no interacting, but holding right made the spear reappear