📚lore_discussion

[bold geode]

Also he might not even need to know, as long as dern does

We don’t really know if it’s him opening the dark portals, since his preferred method of transportation just seems to be teleporting, as seen in a hunters calling

[rotund gust]

🤨

[bold geode]

^ purely speculation btw, probably entirely untrue

[regal spire]

Public access to the internet has ruined the world

[amber nexus]

oh man with my apologies to the builders and CT I like this waaay better.

SE feels off to me. It doesn't fit with the theming of any of the rest of Wynn. The builds are kinda cool I guess but they don't match each other or anything else. Eyeball forest and toxic wastes especially I just don't like at all.

That said, the olmic city is one of the coolest places in the game. Maybe it's because the ambience and music and builds there were so spot on and worked so perfectly together that the rest of SE was such a letwodn

[bold geode]

The eye is also explicitly stated to see all of Wynn constantly, so I have reason to believe the dark sees all

[shut hornet]

it would have been a really lame update without those biomes imo

[regal spire]

I don’t think the eye can see all the way to Corkus, though, pretty sure it’s just the Wynn province

That’s why they’ve got Ba’kal + to a lesser extent, the parasites. They do their thing where the eye cannot see

[bold geode]

True

I guess we don’t know the scope of how far the realm beasts see

[regal spire]

Orphion having an actual body kinda screws with the perception of it, tbh. I wish he was just a giant castle hohoho

The day we see the Dern beasts chosen form is a day I hope they 100% deviate away from tangible forms

I wanna see some morphing, slinking fog of darkness, little eyes peering from the shadows and what not

[dim plover]

Good point

Wait what

[regal spire]

CGG

[amber nexus]

It would have been a lame update if it was actually, genuinely empty. But it would have been a better update with thematically consistent areas and appropriate content instead of lime green alien color fiesta

[regal spire]

But then we wouldn’t have gotten the gloopy, bubbly music that toxic wastes offers

[shut hornet]

its deliberately really weird and varied

its supposed to be very unusual and alien, completely unlike anything youve seen before

[regal spire]

Did we ever get to see the scale of the creature/the actual creature combined with the toxic wastes?

[true eagle]

books are ridiculous

[shut hornet]

no

[regal spire]

Will we?

[amber nexus]

Am I insane to say that it seems too normal for that? Like making it bright green and cartoon radioactive sorta trivializes it to me. That's a setting that's been explored so many times in other games, and just don't land in a Wynn context. And the mobs are much more similar to the rest of Wynn, except more green.

Olmic City works so well because it's sorta facially like Wynn but the experience of being there is unlike being anywhere else on the map. It's haunting and it feels unlike anything else you've seen before in a sorta uncanny valley way.

And then the rest of SE is just like "What if the colors were wonky!?"

IDK just my experience. I generally try not to do SE content because it doesn't feel immersive to me, but there's plenty of other game that I can play with

[regal spire]

The linear nature of SE doesn’t give it a lot of chances to take its concepts as far as they need to be taken. If it had a more scattered, open world esc environment (Wynn plains huhuhuh) it’d make the environments feel more expansive, even more appropriately desolate

Although, because I have this context, I’ve been able to add to its immersive potential in general, making my own world with the given concepts. SE, creativity wise, is super enchanting. I never really get bored of it, the same way as something like molten heights, where despite the unique environments, it’s all kinda the same “flaming tunnel”.

Honestly, themes aside, Wynn just needs to be given more breathing room. There’s so much amazing potential slotted in between each other, crowding its world. Even a 50 block bit of space between landmarks and objectives would be a great start in making the world a bit more breathable

[zinc quarry]

are some parts of wynncraft's world canonically stated to have stronger enemies btw? I know its mentioned that the llevigar plains enemies are stronger than wynn's and obviously the se is. but what about like ahmsord or the molten heights

basically ig what im asking is are enemy levels roughly canon

[regal spire]

Some are, like the above mentioned, but others no. Creatures like cyclops and harpies are higher level only because their concepts are more complicated, requiring more “experience” to expertly fight

They’re not necessarily more powerful, but they are more complicated, smarter, “experienced”, etc

[warm flicker]

for me, the Silent Expanse is a journey of emotions. First is tragedy at the site of the ruined Olmic city and the state of the Lutho citizens, then that tragedy turns into existential horror as u venture into terrain that is quite literally one giant creature until u eventually make ur way to the areas where even the ground itself gets removed. That's what i loved about SE, tragedy turning into existential horror

[rotund gust]

Honestly yeah. Emerald mine is basic because it’s supposed to be a normal mine that went to deep, ruined olmic city is empty and atmospheric, an abandoned civilization. Eyeball forest ruins headfirst into eldritch horror and gets worse the more you realize it’s ties to luthos citizens. Void valley is a result of the fabric of reality being torn away as a result of the darks conquest, and the portal is a huge mystery with lots of ideas surrounding it. Meanwhile toxic waste is just… green

https://tenor.com/view/green-ninjago-ninja-sensei-sensei-wu-gif-6467414812525449281

it doesn’t really matter to the wider narrative of the expanse

[warm flicker]

for me, it feels like the dern beast's attempt at making life. The toxic waste, like other lively environments, is green, has its own ecosystem, and teeming with life. However, it just all feels... wrong, like that whole region is a mockery of the natural order. The green color is too uncanny to convince myself its just grass, the lifeforms too alien to see as anything other than dernic. Not sure if any of this made sense, just my inner thoughts

[dim plover]

Maybe they need to make Toxic Wastes more toxic-looking

Like, a lot more fumes and stuff

And like, many parts of the land that have massive body parts like large mouths that occasionally open and close at random times across the day

[regal spire]

I wish toxic wastes leaned into the whole “merged with a beast” aspect it apparently has. More visible pores, sweaty, green geysers, teeth hanging from the walls, just more than the green and geodes littered throughout

Also, never realized how many tumors there are around the place

[zinc quarry]

what are the exceptions you mention

also im assuming the differrence between lvls is not as large as depicted in the game

otherwise like a single mobs from later areas could just annihilate like all of wynn

[regal spire]

It’s harder to say, because I’d be inclined to say the experience on things like the lizard folk/ogres is purely location based, as they’d have the advantage of home turf to use against us

Things like zombies are low level because they’re just stumbling corpses, with only a few exceptions because of better armor/weaponry

[zinc quarry]

hmmm ok what about like skyraiders are they meant to be stronger than orc or whatever

[regal spire]

They’ve got more advanced weaponry, which is what gives them their advantage, as well as their ecological niche of having advanced aerial technology. They’re basically human level in power, but they’re humans with more unique guns

It’s why there’s skyraiders at lower levels, where they’re basically just the same thing, but at a lesser advantage, such as the pirate queen in a level 70 quest

I’d imagine they’d be distracted, what with all the commotion, as well as us catching them way off guard

Same with stuff like wolves, tbh. They’re not powerful at all, basically more magically potent version of the real thing. However, their environment gives them the perfect scenario to have both the upper hand on our inexperience—we’re new to the tundra—as well as a pack mentality to boost their numbers

Everything else in the area is basically just us being new to the tundra environment and trying our best to get on the combative equal to them

[zinc quarry]

hmmmm ok

[foggy zinc]

Super ramdom but if were talking elemental alignments with runes yoy can look at the bftb rune mini easter egg descriptions.
They are on wiki and it implies such a combination of runes like nii uth tol etc make stuff in the minigame like rune of shadows or rune of halting

[vapid moon]

fruma

[rotund gust]

fruma

[hexed nova]

I wonder what fruma lore is

I hope aledar revives

Or there’s another afelis like character

[regal spire]

Oh, really? That sounds cool, I’ll read into it

[foggy zinc]

its a neat easter egg :)
ill link it

https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Battle_for_the_Bonfire#Trivia

[regal spire]

Thats really cool, thanks for the link.

Uth already has the closest association with air, but it seems to also hold some more latent potential with fire. However, I can’t tell if the message regarding a warm breeze is Uth influence, or tol

It seems that, whenever Tol is involved, words associated closely with heat, fire, etc are used, whilst uth utilizes more air—regardless of heat—related terms, like breeze, smoke, etc

[foggy zinc]

mmmh

funny rune set armors

[regal spire]

Ek seems to be closely associated with thunder, with words like crackle and adrenaline used alongside it

[regal spire]

That’s what’s throwing me off, because both Nii and Uth have defense as a main selling point, despite their water/air attributes

[foggy zinc]

i wouldnt take it all as full confirmation, throw some salt in there

[rotund gust]

curious that none of the bonfire rune combos use Nii

[regal spire]

I’d hope my original assumption might actually have some weight, implying a majority of runes are multi-elemental in nature, despite each just having a more specified element that implies its prowess

[regal spire]

I’d assume Nii is the water related rune, and none of the available runes in battle for the bonfire actively go for a more “intelligent” playstyle. There’s strategy, yes, but they’re more angled towards upperhands and overpowering through strength

[rotund gust]

also tol az and ek armor when

az kinda gets a pass cause of the bow, but no Tol armor despite us having Tol rune corrupted dungeons is sad

[regal spire]

Tol and Ek could be weapons 👀

[foggy zinc]

i wish but the bftb weapons dont have rune lores

[regal spire]

Grrrr

[rotund gust]

but Nii and Uth sets are both “missing” an armor piece. make tol and Ek sets also miss an different armor piece, and if you wear one of each rune set you get a hidden set bonus (even higher if you use Az with a rune set)

[regal spire]

Maybe more mythic weapons with rune names

[rotund gust]

no hold on I think i’m cooking. Pure and Apoc have major ideas, but the other three low level mythics don’t. Instead give Az hidden buffs or a major id that interacts with the rune armor sets

[regal spire]

Rework az to be an entirely new tier of mythics: Runic Mythics, where only specific Runic tier Mythics can get set bonuses with the Rune set armors

[foggy zinc]

real

[regal spire]

Az just being a random low level mythic was always strange to me, tbh. I don’t think this kind of implementation is actually too far fetched, for Rune related items

[rotund gust]

crackpot ideas aside az archangel and aftershock need majorID, pure and apoc get them but the other three don’t?

[regal spire]

Make them available from the Forgery and bam: new forgery loot pool that’s actually interesting

[rotund gust]

Hold on that’s kinda fire though. Forgery chest drops 1/5 rune themed mythics, one for each class with Az being reclassed to fit into that

we have 5 runes even if Ek is sort of unused

Uth for shaman, Nii for assassin Ek for warrior, Tol for mage

and if az gets reworked then boom, easy set of new fruma levelcap tier mythics

[regal spire]

Fire af idea, brother!!!

[rotund gust]

and they could make them awful to use by having crafted item durability, but instead of emeralds they need runes to repair

[drifting aurora]

oh shit we're talking about this :>

[foggy zinc]

yes we are!

[drifting aurora]

this was something that had thought put into it so im happy to see speculation

[foggy zinc]

i helped find it afterall like LONG ago

bftb gamer

[drifting aurora]

rune lore is one of my . side special projects

[foggy zinc]

😳

[drifting aurora]

well theres only 2 of em compared to the 3 nii and uth have each

[rotund gust]

yeah. But presumably CFF will exist eventually boosting Tol to 3, otherwise forgery is just gonna be even more irrelevant once the level cap increases. I guess CEO would probably be Ek then following the pattern (or az but az being for late game keys wouldn’t make sense)

[drifting aurora]

i think forgery as a whole needs a lot of retooling

[rotund gust]

i mean yeah, but regardless if the general pattern stays the same of the dungeons gradually going up on level, something’s gotta exist for the boosted cap. Plus 9 is a good number to end off on so that each rune had 3 (and CEO feels like it would be a lot hard than the other dungeons given the eye being seemingly more complicated on the outside than the other bosses)

CTS still not existing is funny though. Old Garoth banished to a pocket dimension rematch dungeon

[drifting aurora]

check out the new flavor text on cor garoth's breath

[rotund gust]

lmao, even the item knows it’s gonna get removed eventually

how would CEO even work. The eye is a piece of the dark beast how would it even get corrupted. That’s like corrupted orphion or something. Fallen factory you can stretch to be “corruptible” by saying corkus is part of the ocean which is somewhat affected by the war of realms. Eo though?

[drifting aurora]

i think in an ideal world, forgery is detached from Needing its content to be Corrupted

[rotund gust]

fair. i guess all of them being in wynn thus far (exception galleons but it’s still referred to as corrupted galleons) makes their “bad ending” version corrupted

forgery Fallen factory should be just straight up Aperture Science. no more steampunk, just full on lab coat white walls and a hardlight bridge instead of conveyer. Bad ending is the antikythera evolved its technology past the primitive electromagic it was built with into something more

idk what its prefix would be though. Corrupted doesn’t fit but there’s nothing else that would make it fit the pattern of the other forgery dungeons

Industrial Fallen Factory? Compounded Fallen Factory to keep the “C+initials” theme? Corporate Fallen Factory 💀

Cosmic Fallen factory and lean into the white lab aesthetic we see in the ??? labs and the gavel excavation secret. A meteor hit fallen factory and caused antikythera to go even more crazy that alternate dimension

[foggy zinc]

cool idea actually
cosmic horrors to our comprehension :)

[wispy bay]

They should just call it

Battlemonk factory or paladin factory

[rotund gust]

Cosmic Fallen Factory
Castaway Galleons Graveyard
Coagulated Undergrowth Ruins
Cryonic Ice Barrows
Canopic SandsweptTomb
Chrono(something) Timelost Sanctum
Chthonic Underworld Crypt
Creeping Infesting Pit
And keep Corrupted Decrepit sewers as is

there’s a way to rename them that breaks the “corrupted” pattern without breaking the C-dungeon pattern

sandswept tombs is the only one i couldn’t really think of a good one for

i’m going to bed now. i put my phone down to sleep, had the idea, and needed to type it out otherwise i would’ve been laying there for an extra hour thinking about it

[crisp locust]

chronic?

and cosmic should be for EO tbh since lutho is inspired by cosmic horror
corrupted might fit better on FF (think bit rot, etc, file corruption)

[hybrid gazelle]

Goign to explore the idea of how effect of Bluecap mushroom is like in the rewrite ROL

The idea is that the effect of Bluecap mushroom allow one to connect with the Light more

and with human being more affected by the mushroom property that it overbearing

It manage to break the barrier that cut off Light from Plane of Physicality, allowing player to contact with Orphion in that moment

[regal spire]

I wanted to speculate on the idea that each Rune has any intrinsic elemental prowess, or if they’re all generally elemental. It seems to lean more towards the former, with the latter concept having less to support it

[hybrid gazelle]

IN the rewrite of ROL honestly I probably explore more of Lari character first while putting realm stuff in the background as worldbuilding

The theme of the story definitely be about accepting the past and be better for the present

I really want Lari to have 2 skins in this story

to show how much 1000 years have done to her

TBH cant really deny that Deltarune definitely have some influence on Light vs Dark in wynncraft LOL

[regal spire]

There’s just an issue with the fact that Az’s association with being a thunder mythic goes against the idea that Ek is the intended thunder rune, despite both working within the concept. I’d assume Az to be the earth one, with its availability being first spotted in swampier areas, alongside its inclusion in the halting rune having plausible justification to why it now has slowing properties

[hybrid gazelle]

while at first I do not agree with the idea of adding more quests into ROL from my co writer. Eventually I would agree with the idea to allow Lari character to develop better and not shove everything in 5 parts while allowing room to breathe in the story

Honestly this rewrite also would come with remake of Aldorei which will probably touch later

like Aledori's secract part 1 and 2
Lazarus Pit
Most of dark forest quests actually get affected by this ROL rewrite so I have to go and rewrite them

[regal spire]

Although, I’m also inclined to believe that involving a multitude of runes in a single creation would create more unstable magic, as the halting rune appears to halt everything around it, freezing it in time, rather than merely slowing it or creating some kind of resistance field

[hybrid gazelle]

this was like layout idea for the quest progress

honestly not accurate to final product now but the first did the basic job

definitely need to finalize dialogue later but I want to add more character interaction

I want Lari to shown to be caring but a bit asshole-ish(because elf)

I like to add subtle idea of how long she been in service of the Light, like her forgetting people name(Usually people she met is live for less than 60 years compare to her 1000+ years)

I definitely do want to explore Lari's relationship with people in decay region

maybe remake discovery but we will see and I still think some of them could use some fixing

[regal spire]

Although, it’s difficult to pinpoint whether or not there are actual intended elements to each Rune, since they seem to change depending on their involvement with other runes. If we’re looking at Az’s lore—ignoring the loose canon—Az, Ek, and Nii were inscribed to be the downfall of a civilization, whilst also appearing to relate to the bow itself. Nii matching with the water damage on the bow is perfectly fine, and Ek supplying the thunder damage makes sense too, but then there’s that fire damage that leaves me questioning whether or not I’m getting it right.

The fire damage could imply that Ek is the actual fire associated rune, with Az holding the title to thunder, especially when the bow’s name itself is represented by the Rune of Az, making it thematically appropriate for the weapon’s main damage to be thunder. However, that just doesn’t seem to fit with how Ek’s involvement within the Battle of the Bonfire (forgot the exact name) runes depicts it as, where Ek is seen in the adrenaline rune, using language like “surge of energy” to accurately depict the feeling of using it. That has a significantly closer association to Thunder, where electricity and surge are used together in general terminology

[drifting aurora]

the halting rune's a bit of a complex one tbh

given it uses 4 of the 5 runes in its string

[hushed comet]

why not rework it to be olms related since they do time/interdimensional travel and whatnot iirc

forgery is already multiverse shenanigans as far as i know

would also make it easy to justify in world as endgame content

[drifting aurora]

nah

we have forgery lore set in stone already, it just hasn't had a chance to get much in game

[hybrid gazelle]

As much as I dislike how sometime they never use olms when thing become time and space related and stuff

I would say Forgery can probably be on its own and can be a case of other civilization attempt to use cosmic magic

it would gone to show that Olms indeed few civilization out there that capable of utilize cosmic magic while something like Forgery could happen if other civilization attempt to do the same thing as they do

[regal spire]

If there’s any runes that have some more isolated Az usage planned, I’d love to know what their flavor text would be

[limber swan]

Az is one of only seven known Mythic-tier Bows released with the Gavel update

why does the wiki say known?

[stoic tree]

We might have missed one

[regal spire]

Honestly, wynns been around a while, they probably forgot one or two

[regal spire]

Also, wait a minute, George carlins a fan of Wynn lore fr

[limber swan]

lol you noticed

[hybrid gazelle]

here DUllahan design for the rewrite and me rambling about Dullahan in ROL

[regal spire]

I can’t believe he came back to life just to enjoy the wynncord

[hybrid gazelle]

I think the state of Dullahan in wynncraft currently

Is pretty bad? I feel like there just Dullahan is a kind of character that wayyy pass story that he could perfectly fit in and no where else so he just existing there with no purpose

Forbidden prison feel more of an apology ROL 3 rather than being geniune afford to make him relevance

[hushed comet]

dullahan raid bro

dulla raid will fix everything

[hybrid gazelle]

forbidden prison got issues of its own but I feel like Dullahan just have be more involve in ROL storyline and ended there later than being drag out in the story for him to reappear like IDK dern story for some reaosn

I dont think they will ever make that work or not feel forced

Even then Dullahan as character would not really work as raid or dungeon because his backstory are all connected to Lari and I think he has more oppurnity as quest exclusive ratehr tahn being in stasis for raid and dungeon

in summary I believe that Dullahan should be a problem for Lari to deal with in the story that would then translate to her character progression rather than just be another threat for player to deal with

it's something that personal for Lari and therefore she need to dealt with him herself

So yeah I think Dullahan in current state is really confusing to where they want him to go even if they did have plan I just dont believe it going to be "good" as it can be because again like I mention Dullahan FEEL like character long pass their prime in narrative like his oppurnity to really shine been long pass

and I think he has problem where the writers just dont know how to convey his power because like

one moment he can capture someone soul from far away and then like Forbidden Prison just introduce concept of soul extraction where they extract soul from prisoner and send it to Dullahan????

the idea of souls can be deliever through mail is really funny but like it just weird how they dont even know how his power should work

that one of the reason why I feel like Forbidden Prison felt like they try to make DUllahan work, they try to bring him back to relevance but in the end it just feel awkward

I never really agree with keeping him enterwine with forbidden prison but yeah it still in my opinion that Dullahan should end in Headless History

or at least end in ROL storyline because I feel like anything else is just dragging him far too long that needed to

I felt like those who want DUllahan raid or dungeon just do not really understand why what is wrong with Dullahan and hope that give him more content would fix him which it would not and make the problem worse in my opinion

[hushed comet]

i was being ironic

[hybrid gazelle]

Honestly I just think it very weird but it probasbly chalk down to lack of time that they cancel Dullahan raid and do nothing to compensate that so even then ROL pretty half bake because of it

but yeah personally I would make Dullahan the main threat of Dark Forest that build up throughout Dark Forest quest untily ou get to Headless History where he was dealt with for good

this also mean Forbidden Prison need to be remake but I think that fair trade off because now you can open the prison for other use like Urelix or literally anything

and also remake other dark forest quest to build up Dullahan presence in the world more like Lazarus Pit and maybe Memory paranoid IDK we will see

[rotund gust]

maybe. But fallen factory i think cosmic would be the easiest way to redo it. Right now most of the others are just: OG dungeon + fire and netherrack. It would be hard to to actually show data corruption in the build

where as a cosmic theme could go full aperture science to meteor lab

[crisp locust]

just delete half the blocks

[rotund gust]

and EO is kinda already cosmic horror, it’s hard to make it… more cosmic horrory

[rotund gust]

so true

[regal spire]

Holy, I don’t think we’ve ever seen corruption interact with machines, in Wynn

And especially no machine like anti, which is an actual super computer

Corrupted blocks that are just actually corrupted data blocks retextured for Wynn’s aesthetic would make the dungeon so unique

[pallid rain]

i think nii rune should be a least use at one raid

[rotund gust]

nexus using uth and then both TCC and TNA using tol never made sense to me. Nexus Nii, TCC Uth, TNA Tol would’ve made more sense

i guess it’s cause TNA was added later?

[rotund gust]

Az being added solely for grootslang instead of grootslang just using nii never made sense to me though. I guess it’s cause nii guardians don’t spawn till light/dark forest? (i could be wrong but i’ve never seen them in the swamp)

[cold cove]

Presumably

[rotund gust]

And then nexus is uth because of the aldorei uth alter i guess? But then TCC doesn’t really have a link to Tol seeing as the Tol altar is in the silent expanse

TNA as tol makes sense though

Then presumably a fruma raid would be ek? Getting another Tol raid would be weird

[drifting aurora]

its the levels

groot is a bit too low level for nii

[rotund gust]

fair enough

atleast you can get both nii and az from most world events that offer runes in that range. Cause nii isn’t worth nearly as much

[hybrid gazelle]

QUATRON RAID COMFIRM????

[rotund gust]

wouldn’t the quartron be even lower level than grootslang

[rotund sphinx]

There’s a second tol altar in sky islands that costs more but is available no quest

[limber swan]

would be peak

[rotund gust]

i lowkey forgot that one existed. I only realized it existed mid lootrun onetime

[bold geode]

When dullahan raid

[rotund gust]

dullahan major world event instead

[regal spire]

He’s breaking free oh god

Imagine a reskinned Annie with dullahan’s texture breaking through the door lmao

[rotund gust]

lmao

[lean wadi]

Quarton raid sounds insane

Or even the prison from the angry village raid

[rotund gust]

dwendle raid

new level 40 raid vs. the goat dwendle

[regal spire]

I wonder what the first ocean raid will be (if there will ever be one)

[wispy bay]

Skiens island raid could be fun

[rotund gust]

actually would be hype

level 20 raid vs. durum protector

[wispy bay]

Final boss is the fucking cow

[regal spire]

Durum protector is such a perfect example for an amazing “road block” type of boss. It forces you to understand every available attack pattern, whilst having the patterns themselves entirely comprehensive on the first/2nd attempt. There’s enough downtime for every class to be able to consistently deal damage to it, and it’s flashy enough to make every attack generally readable, with huge drawbacks to not being quick enough.

[rotund gust]

hard disagree. Protector is so out of the way for most players who don’t know about it, and its new patterns are a lot easier and less dangerous then they used to be

Bovine Barn is really out of the way, and Rotten Passage is fairly hidden and quest locked. Sunrise canyon is quest locked too, but it’s easier to see going into the mesa and think “i wonder what they is, i wanna go up there”

[wispy bay]

I mean, for a new player who goes around and does quests and then sees an ominous skull on the quest book, it’s not that far out of the way

[regal spire]

You know, that’s an entirely fair assessment. Looking at it from a new player perspective, it’s a boss that’s just really out of the way, needing significantly more willing oceanic exploration.

I’m definitely speaking from a perspective of level caps and challenge runs, where this boss is the main roadblock to level 20+ content. It offers such a fun challenge with the available items at level 20, and even more of a unique challenge when you’re actively trying to stay at level/use the offered AP exclusively

Like, doing durum on archer or assassin at level, with like no notable legendaries is just an amazing time. Plenty long to experience every attack, and tense enough to make every mess up exciting

Haros being the first “local” boss altar is one that bothers me the most, tbh, because it’s genuinely awful. Cannot wait for it to get the necessary rework it deserves, because Nemract needs a better boss altar

[rotund gust]

ehhh, idk though durum is a little too easy now i think. It’s attacks are a bit too heavily telegraphed and slow now

granted I’ve done a lot of playthroughs and know what i’m doing, so it might not be too easy for a new player, but like durum is fairly reasonable to do at like level 15 now

[regal spire]

I think it’s more that the first few attempts, for new players/challenge runs with level caps can force you to die a couple times just to understand how the intended outcome of the attack is supposed to go. I know I got caught off guard near the end, where he did his normal floating slam attack, but made a huge shock wave that instantly killed me

It works really well as a roadblock for that reason, because it doesn’t block your level cap for long, since you can learn the fight fairly well, but it’s still challenging enough to make predictions interesting

[dim plover]

If only it wasn’t completely obscure to new players who have zero reason to travel to Durum

You know, the island where no quests are involved in

[regal spire]

Its unique in its implementation, but has the horrible downside of no one knowing it’s there 😭

[dim plover]

I want more skillcheck bosses tbh

As in, bosses that block major game content (or the next major region) that you’re forced to get good at the game to get past

[regal spire]

Rymek Luke on shaman

[dim plover]

(This also means that you can’t cheese it with getting some endgame player to kill it for you)

So they have to be solo

[regal spire]

Again, at level Rymek Luke shaman

[dim plover]

.

[drifting aurora]

this is intentional

boss altars are meant as more of a second playthrough thing- at least, the earlygame ones are. this is seen through how the boss altar intro quest is in the 50s

[dim plover]

It’s more like Durum Protector specifically that’s more obscure than the others

Because the island isn’t really nearby any regularly-playable area like the other ones

I know stuff like Orange Wybel and PZ are really out of the way but this thing is:

1. On a remote island nobody aware of the altar/ not proffing has a reason to pick on the Seaskipper (and even then I never remember that there’s an altar in the barn when I do go there to farm)
2. The lowest level boss altar, which makes it less likely for players to not shoot past the recommended level range whenever they do actually hear about its existence

[dim plover]

Anyways about this

I know Wynncraft is explicitly an MMO so singleplayer-locked content might be a controversial idea here but I really do want combat skillchecks uncheesable via assists

(Unless the other players are within the same level range from each other or something that one I’ll allow. Just scale the boss accordingly)

Otherwise getting a level 106 oneshot glass cannon or a Lightbender full instaheal to just carry you through a pre-2.0 CoW tier boss is something that irks me

[rocky smelt]

annie canon gender

context

annie's gender is Evil

[rotund gust]

the problem is that bane and the eye are really the only bosses that could serve as roadblocks. No other regions are as closed off as the back of the expanse and the jungle. I guess a skill check boss to get into RoL could work? (dullahan?)

pretty much any other region you could just go around the boss

maybe an early fight with one of the hive bosses (probably gale) trying to enter the hive?

their could be other like “jumps you” world encounter bosses, but they wouldn’t really be roadblocks just cool

honestly random “relevant” npc’s jumping you would be cool

[regal spire]

That’s why I love playing Wynn with level caps, because it forces you into interactions you wouldn’t naturally be forced to optimize, creating these cool, artificial roadblocks

[rotund gust]

hive npc’s in the canyon, a haywire golem in the swamp or plains just straight jumping you would be cool

more world encounters would just be cool

all the ones besides bane and fool eater suck

[dim plover]

As long as skill checks block something that the player would really want

[rotund gust]

idk if unified gnome even works

[dim plover]

Or at least really doesn’t want to like, “skip over” in gameplay

Skillchecks that block regions is difficult so this is the next best thing

[rotund gust]

idk a lot of stuff is quest locked for that purpose

maybe the sky island tol altar? since the SE one is quest locked

[regal spire]

Honestly, I wouldn’t mind the SE lootrun camp being blocked like that

It’s just sitting there, with zero reason to have even been able to get there. Make it so you’re forced to fight through some kind of hive/nest to clear the area for silverbull syndicate usage

[dim plover]

Oh btw I never really got the chance to talk about something really specific when I was going on about the empty SE

I don’t really have the words to describe this though so I’m probably not going to get past the idea well

Nvm I’ve already said it a lot of times scratch that lol

[regal spire]

Oh purp 🙂

[dim plover]

Okay I fine will

So me and Wynncraft have very different worldbuilding styles when it comes to the task of conceptualizing a magical realm

(This is not me bashing on Wynncraft’s decisions, theirs is unique and I very much welcome it)

[hybrid gazelle]

NOti final dialogue but I try to rewrite the dialogue from the original quest while retainning the essentail meaning

this would happen after she pacified the turtle miniboss

[dim plover]

Okay so you know how Wynncraft’s Realmic influence is a lot more

Rooted in biology than one expects

[hybrid gazelle]

from the concept art it would be this scene

[regal spire]

Mhmmm

[hybrid gazelle]

honestly I try to make this dialogue have more wieght into it

showing Lari method have capability to work in one thing I change about the quest

[dim plover]

As in, you’d think that magical entities born from a godly force wouldn’t have organs and body parts and plantlife that are otherwise comparable to Earth’s in terms of “laws”

As in, they check out
They work like what we know of current Earth life rules, if not way weirder

[hybrid gazelle]

The beginning fight where you repel wild creatures while you and Malo try to search for fallen workers just there to establish your usual method

I probably have to add more dialogue between these sections

[dim plover]

Anyways that whole thing is cool and all,

[rotund gust]

i mean, SE already has fool eater i don’t think it needs another world encounter

[dim plover]

Okay how do I word this without sounding like I’m disregarding Wynncraft’s worldbuilding design

[regal spire]

Speak subjectively, not objectively, using the basis of the original intent as the forefront of your inspired design

[dim plover]

Anyways my way of creating magical unearthly forces beyond even this plane of reality is more to make it like

Unexplainable
Ethereal

[regal spire]

“They inspired me through this aspect, which led me to develop my own interpretation”

[dim plover]

In the sense that you shouldn’t expect to see even the semblance of the regular rules you would expect to see

[hybrid gazelle]

but overall I want to show that both player and Lari method have some valid point to make
Player definitely benefit from some of Lari's method like she applying repellent on them allowing mobs to be passive to them and how she help the player by ending the fight with turtle quickly with putting it to sleep

[ancient aspen]

Did diddyblud really invent the mango

[dim plover]

Like, Kantry are from the Realm of Dern but yet they have regular Earth animal behavior comparable to said Earth animals and still thrive in an ecosystem

[regal spire]

I do really like having concepts of wynns lore whenever I’m considering your creations. They’re so genuinely unique, it gives the world just that bit more potential magic, especially when a lot of the lore is actively being developed and changed

[dim plover]

While if I were to make something otherworldly (and I have) there wouldn’t be nearly as much to sort of “tie” itself to what we are familiar with

However, I will say that I have been inspired by Wynncraft’s methods

@regal spire (Continuing on to #🌎wynncraft)

[regal spire]

To the main 🦸

[hybrid gazelle]

from the original quyest, this dialogue happen when you get to diverge tunnels

I kinda change this to after turtle fight because I just think that Lari seeing player's method would be far better time to bring this dialogue up

[drifting aurora]

yeah theyre kind of different categories of things

the old world encounters are all very... odd i guess

[hybrid gazelle]

there was idea of Lari see player actually killed mobs but like it just feel odd to me to like "oh wow you killed soemthing, I dont disagree wtih you but I prefer not"

so I just change it to Lari actually pacified something to stop player fight

Honestly the dialogue in ROL is pretty intresting

I think they try to hint Lari's past a bit when she mentionning guilt which is pretty cool
I just focus on it more in this rewrite because I want to set it up for Dullahn

Also ngl I been confusing this decision to spawn spiders attacking you while Lari tell you to ignore

[rotund gust]

cannibal encounter being… odd and the unified gnome which supposedly exists but i’ve never gotten to spawn are the only other ones i can think of off the top of my head

oh and the mage island one

[hybrid gazelle]

it odd decision to put player into situation where they have ot kill to progress with Lari just standing there with no reaction

[rotund gust]

that one’s neats although it’s sort of pointless. Inoffensive

[hybrid gazelle]

but I can chalk it up to needing gameplay but at the same time this is something that definitely is odd decision that drag the narrative a bit

For this rewrite I also aim to show more Lari's relationship with people of Olux a bit more

because I Feel like that something that would be intresting to explore
Lari definitely help these people a lot in the past and definitely have some reputation among them

[regal spire]

Ternaves had one, but it seems to be broken. Now I’ll never access that t2 chest

[hybrid gazelle]

this is probably one off but I like the idea of Lari not remembering people name
Most people she met only live under 60 years while herself is 1000+ years old

that like a speck in her life spans, she aint gonna remember all of them

60 years is generous for olux and other decay area actually

[rotund gust]

oh deltas rat is funny

[drifting aurora]

there's the ternaves mine, the tree island hermit, the ragni peninsula defend

[rotund gust]

i forgot that classifies as world encounter. That’s a good one

[drifting aurora]

uhhh. the guy who gets his pigs stolen by gerts. thats one

[rotund gust]

i feel like ragni peninsula defend needs something besides just a new prof spot. Unless i’m forgetting something in there

[hybrid gazelle]

I still want to write Lari as bit asshole but also still caring

[drifting aurora]

i think it should get removed entirely tbh. or at least heavily reworked

[hybrid gazelle]

I probably need to look more dialogue, I really wanna get that mean Lari from death whistle quest

[rotund gust]

i mean, it’s kinda cool that it’s there. it adds something to that region. But something should be behind it besides proffing. Like an exclusive item like afelis locket

[hybrid gazelle]

oh yeah found this older version of the scene

[rotund gust]

and just updated to modern standard

[hybrid gazelle]

new rewritten ROL definitely longer than the original but mostly because I just want thing to be more slower pace

[rotund gust]

olux fisherman is inoffensive. Doesn’t do anything but doesn’t require anything either. it’s fine

[drifting aurora]

honestly id remove most of the existing world encounters

[rotund gust]

unified gnome needs to spawn more i’ve gone to the cords like 5 times from different directions, explored the little village, /classes and it’s never spawned

[drifting aurora]

and the old ones that remain should be declassified from that category

[regal spire]

Don’t forget the guy who’s tent burns down in CotL

[rotund gust]

i mean, the pure dialogue ones are fine. It’s the ones that are more than just dialogue npc’s that are sort of outdated. As of now there’s the inoffensive dialogue ones, the outdated ones, and the modern “a boss randomly jumps you” ones

[drifting aurora]

right

[rotund gust]

thesead coal mine event seems fine, never done it but the wiki entry seems good

[regal spire]

Honestly, looking back at the implementation of world events, I kinda figured a majority of them would behave like the bane encounter

Where you’re forced into the first time, and then it’s active normally after

[rotund gust]

curious starer in the expanse is cool, minor reward for exploring

[drifting aurora]

this shouldnt even count

world encounter as a category is like. really vague right now

[rotund gust]

i’m just going off the wiki entries for world encounters. Those + fool eater since it fits thematically

but curious starers seems to fit the more modern ones. You walk to an area and get jumped, minor reward. Except no boss fight attached

[regal spire]

Technically, that’s more of a loot cave. Although, there are curious starers that sort of follow you around Olmic city, your first time in it

[rotund gust]

it’s not classified as a cave though, and wiki lobs it in with the world encounters. I know the wiki could be wrong but it makes sense

[regal spire]

Fair enough

Tbh, ternaves’ mine kinda behaves the same way as that cave, but it’s not repeatable. Always wondered what the deal was with that one

[rotund gust]

fool eater is only classified as a rare mob on the wiki though, even though it functions a lot more like bane or unified gnome than other rare mobs

[regal spire]

Some miner goes cooky and kills himself, until it was retconned as an accident

[rotund gust]

so the wiki definition isn’t perfect

[regal spire]

Who was that guy, in that cave? I always thought it was a ghost, but it seems to have been an actual guy

That and the prison have zero answers to their existence, with like 100 questions as to wtf

[drifting aurora]

the unfortunate truth is that most of the old world events didnt really have much thought put into them

[rotund gust]

i mean yeah, but their still neat none the less. Most of the old “dialogue” ones add character to empty parts of the world

it’s the old ones that try to be more than that which are outdated

[hybrid gazelle]

I got like couple of notes for ROL rewrite

[rotund gust]

and even then they aren’t bad in concept, just outdated in execution

[hybrid gazelle]

I wish I coujld bring malo back in other time
but what i though off is like feel forced so for now he just act as post quest NPC

[regal spire]

I could see the ternaves mine one having potential connections into both the construction and usage of the nearby prison, but its initial implementation was just so random and—pardon my language—stupid that it just gave it nothing to work with

[rotund gust]

unified gnome (if it worked) is a cool idea. The gnomes are super unexplored outside of bigger picture, and the area near light forest gate (if i’m remembering where the gnome huts are correctly) has basically nothing of note.

Putting something neat there untied to the quest book is good in concept

[hybrid gazelle]

this was original outline of the worm's holes I have to change bit and there

[rotund gust]

having random stuff laying around the world not tied to content book progression like the world encounters is healthy imo

[regal spire]

I’d like some little dialogue blurbs to go with the prison, tbh, despite its real-world past

[hybrid gazelle]

Really afraid I might be overdone with dialogue but oh well

[regal spire]

Staff should take a page from the past and start locking players inside the tern prison again

[rotund gust]

thinking about it, does corkus have any world encounters

the only thing that comes to mind is the avo ghost but that’s linked to the lost city secret

[regal spire]

I think it does, but they’re not really finished

[rotund gust]

like there are no random mechs with dialogue or anything that can randomly spawn in

[regal spire]

There’s the one unfinished discovery that sort of behaves like a world encounter, the one with the lake near Corkus entrance

Idk if that was removed, though

[rotund gust]

a lot of secret discoveries could also really easily be world encounters or vice versa. see the sky islands swordsman for an example

or cannibal ambush (jungle secret >_>)

[regal spire]

I think all the possible, notable world encounters for Corkus were kind of just made into lootrun events

[rotund gust]

lootrun events being awesome and cool when i introduce them to someone who doesn’t lootrun (me)

[regal spire]

Lootrun events try to both work and show up challenge (impossible)

[limber swan]

would be cool if there was a world encounter where you fight Tisaun Sodera's ghost, cause you don't fight him in the COTL lootrun, just his guild members

[rotund gust]

i’ve never had one show up. Granted i don’t lootrun often but i’ve done a few

[regal spire]

Haze Cave shortcut is still broken, btw

[regal spire]

He’s got his grave in Cinfras, I’d want his fight to be taken there, in the Valhalla he’d belong in

[limber swan]

maybe they could replace the grave with a tomb, and you have to get in with a key to fight him

[rotund gust]

it’s kinda over shadowed by the massive fuck off siegfried monument though

[regal spire]

Not sure on Tisaun, yet. I do know that I’d really like for it to be another SD sort of boss, maybe even one that’s hidden to similar levels of ???

[regal spire]

Honestly, tisaun’s grave got a tad shafted, where the SD next to it is easier to notice 😭

[rotund gust]

tisaun in general is a bit shafted

[regal spire]

Bro’s spear gets more attention than him 😭

[rotund gust]

only thing he has going for him is claim to heroism

granted its choices for the 3 hero’s are a bit strange anything (lari over bob??? i get siegfried, and tisaun makes sense even if he is mentioned a lot less than siegfried, but no bob?!??)

[regal spire]

Even there, he’s shafted. Outclassed by Buddy and Babushka

[rotund gust]

Imo, should be Siegfried, Tisaun, Bob and then one of the twains. (maybe dwendle since theorick and rickeo have blizzard brawl? marius or mael would work too though)

lari being in claim to heroism never made sense to me

I get she’s important, but like… she doesn’t really have the “hero” image down like the others. She doesn’t really do anything

[regal spire]

She spent her entire career trying to make up for how crap of a job she did. She’s an outlier, for sure, but Siegfried is there and he’s canonically a literal nesting doll

[rotund gust]

Siegfried was probably a hero once, brought into star power and very much has the image of a hero, even if he doesn’t have the ideals anymore
Tisuan is the opposite, no star power, but actually a hero
Bob is both star power and valor
Lari is… neither. She tries to make up for her failings but doesn’t really succeed being the dividing force secret, and she certainly doesn’t have the image of a hero

granted lari brings a play style to claim to heroism that bob couldn’t and apart from the weapon switching Bib doesn’t have much unique that tisaun couldn’t offer

idk he could spawn the elemental swords or something

[regal spire]

Honestly, there aren’t really a lot of options, and I’ve got a sneaky theory that they only represent heroes that are canonically dead. Got a feeling that bobs alive, but lari ain’t gonna make it

[rotund gust]

I mean maybe, but siegfrieds ability is resurrection. And he’s kinda alive? maybe. A version of him is anyway

[regal spire]

Either that, or bobs soul is currently busy, and cannot be replicated in the game

Maybe Nilrem’s magic has a hold on replicating images of Bob, making it impossible for him to be a playable hero

[rotund gust]

or it’s claim to heroism and we shouldn’t think to hard about it because asters weird storytelling magic

[regal spire]

I thought that about the bonfire mini game, but then I saw the runes

[rotund gust]

i mean, scraps of truth inside things that don’t matter

plus BftB doesn’t involve characters like BB or tCtH

[regal spire]

True true

Corrupted Santa lore anyone?

[rotund gust]

banish the beyond also has characters but idk how canon that one is

[regal spire]

Wait, which characters

[rotund gust]

garavan, panic zealot, colossal rat, mael and one of the deaths. I forget who the taken is supposed to be

[regal spire]

Oh, what lmao
What is this line up

[rotund gust]

it’s dead by daylight logic. The classes have different names, but it’s the same character. Look at the images of them on the wiki

Wanderer is garavan. Terror is panic zealot etc

idk how the stalker or the taken are i don’t recognize their models at first glance

[rotund gust]

EX. In dead by daylight the character is “the animatronic” but like it’s clearly springtrap. It’s just the naming convention

https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Banish_the_Beyond

scroll down to the gallery you’ll see

wait it’s in the trivia section at the bottom

[regal spire]

What is mael doing with these hardened criminals

[rotund gust]

Taken is aledar, stalker is krolton apparently

i don’t see it with stalker. Taken being aledar checks out though

“based on” still i think it still fits in with blizzard brawl and claim to heroism. It’s not like the person playing claim to heroism actually becomes lari. (maybe takes up the visage but that’s not actually lari)

blizzard brawl idk the lore though

[regal spire]

There is no way stalker is not blade of shade

[rotund gust]

also according to the wiki the death in banish the beyond is ToA death

[regal spire]

How is it krolton???? Do they even know what krolton is

[rotund gust]

idk it doesn’t really fit the skin of any mobs. the others are either reskins that still resemble their originals or just straight up their model

this one though. How tf is this supposed to be Krolton

the others all check out

[drifting aurora]

krolton had a redesign internally that hasnt made it ingame properly yet

[rotund gust]

#notmykrolton

[regal spire]

Way closer to this than krolton

[drifting aurora]

we'd have used the actual model if the disguising system used for banish the beyond supported new models

[rotund gust]

oh. So is banish the beyond’s stalker closer to what the new krolton is supposed to look like, or is it a banish the beyonded version of the new krolton design

[drifting aurora]

it's literally just a skin version of the new krolton model

[rotund gust]

gotcha

also. Battle for the bonfire being the only one of the 4 without being able to play as wynn characters is really funny to me. idk why

[drifting aurora]

originally, cth had 6 heroes planned for release: bob, siegfried, tisaun, lari, theorick, bakal. tisaun and lari proved to be the simplest to implement & there wasnt time for the rest

[regal spire]

Oh, this kinda changes alot about krolton, too. Instead of it being some goofy looking earth monster, it’s now akin to something more dark looking. Wonder if that has any significance

[rotund gust]

bak’al!?!

hold on that’s kinda hype

[regal spire]

A hero to the corruption no doubt

[drifting aurora]

yea. "hero" for the minigame was a bit of a loose term

[rotund gust]

i guess if the amount were expanded then yeah lari fits

[drifting aurora]

i had a fun concept for his kit

[hybrid gazelle]

TBH the worm's hole just one of those quest that on its lonesome do not need fixing but I change it a lot for this rewrite just to set up for future change in other quests so it not necessery that the worm hole is bad but it more of ROL just need more set up in which the worm hole provide the space for. TBH I kinda excited and dreaded to rewrite other part because while the process is fun, the deeper I get into, the less I have something to base on because onward the quest will divert from the original. There definitely some massive change but I will try to keep the original meaning and tone of the questline.

I also feel like making Lari know that Grootslangs is affected by decay straight away would shown her to be more capable and familiar with the decay. Rn I deciding if Lari should know if the grootslang is a mother or not because the detail is not important until yo uget to raid which is the role I give to Malo that let you know about there nest in the temple. I also probably add more world building lore to the temple but we will see in post quest dialogue.

[rotund gust]

honestly o think marius would’ve been cooler than theorick. As much as i love theorick we’re exposed to him a lot, and he’s the least “heroic” of the twains

[drifting aurora]

well the reason i picked him was cause i had an idea for an ice themed kit

[regal spire]

Is Theorick in BB? It’s the only mini game I haven’t actually tried

[rotund gust]

fair enough. But a rune themed kit for marius (bak’al calling runes “twain magic”) would’ve gone hard too. Especially since theorick is already in blizzard brawl

[hybrid gazelle]

should have make his ult freeze the entire map and kill everyone fr fr

[drifting aurora]

ehhh soft canon. in the sense that all the banish the beyond stuff is technically story magic making it manifest, so it's not entirely real, but it's based off of actual souls/spirits that would exist

[drifting aurora]

now that's an interesting connection :]

[regal spire]

Somebody mention rune lore? I’m still interested in that

[hybrid gazelle]

I have a lot of plan for Lari character in this rewrite like REALY wish Lari got 2 skins in this story so establish how much 1000 years have change her

[drifting aurora]

blizzard brawl is even looser canon than banish the beyond because it doesnt really have any lore

[rotund gust]

that’s what i mean. the characters in the festival mini games aren’t like… the characters we know. In universe fictional versions. Like asters headcanons for the Claim to heroisms hero’s

[hybrid gazelle]

Lari in BB

[regal spire]

Aren’t there the little employees/elf guys that mention some existential grief they have?

[drifting aurora]

yeah but thats meta commentary from the people who developed it lol

[hybrid gazelle]

can we have DUllahan and Lari in BB so they can be chirstmas elves

[rotund gust]

actually dullahan would go kinda hard in claim to heroism

[regal spire]

Dullahan could be a BB support

[hybrid gazelle]

Dullahan passive is that he take extra damage when attack hit his head hitbox

Dullahan would be damage

Lari being support is predictable but tank would be cool wild card

[drifting aurora]

aster's headcanons is a good way to put it

[regal spire]

Dullahan behaves like a punching bag, losing his head to deal damage to itself, but supporting his teammates with heals and buffs, simultaneously relying on the damage it does to establish DoTs like bleeding and… blight…

Wait a minute…

[rotund gust]

Dulla would fit best in banish the beyond though, seeing has he’s a villain who steals souls

[regal spire]

Fair enough 2x

[hybrid gazelle]

no fucking way actual Dullahan relvancy

[rotund gust]

There’s a lot of characters who could easily slot into festival minigames. Unfortunately that’s a lot of dev time for a minigame that’s around for less than 1 month a year 💀

[drifting aurora]

i wanna give festivals more attention, but that's been hard the past couple years lol

[rotund gust]

Banish the beyond could add survivor characters or just more spirits.

battle for the bonfire could just add references to any characters, maybe new weapons

blizzard brawl could add atleast one more tank and support to even out the numbers

and claim to heroism could use more hero’s

as is though their all fine. Especially banish the beyond it’s kinda peak

[regal spire]

With fruma on the horizon, I’m excited for the onslaught of added and improved content to the existing world that will follow it

[rotund gust]

oh yeah, fruma integration to the festivals would be cool

[hybrid gazelle]

Linton for festival,,,

[rotund gust]

queen of fruma as a banish the beyond spirit

[drifting aurora]

[regal spire]

Fruman queen invited to the festival

[rotund gust]

well maybe not the queen. But that one guy from recover the last who wipes people’s memories could have a really cool banish the beyond kit

[regal spire]

Nah, make him into a slug

[hybrid gazelle]

I want Egpla as invitable NPC for blizzard

[dim plover]

Hi everyone what’s up

[regal spire]

HEY EVERY

[dim plover]

(I would’ve kept the Lacenet pfp until Silksong is released but I changed it back to be more recognizable)

[rotund gust]

the Adjustor for banish the beyond

hold on you know who would slot perfectly into blizzard brawl

lucio and elphaba

greg for banish the beyond 💀

[regal spire]

They’re a bit too dead too early

[drifting aurora]

not like that means anything for blizzard brawl

[rotund gust]

i mean… like half of the blizzard brawl characters are dead or can be killed. Theorick and rickeo being prime suspexts

[regal spire]

Yeah, but they’ve been dead for a while/around longer. They’re both young and dead, their stories cut too short to truly be told

[rotund gust]

true, but i think they can still fit. There’s a bunch far more niche characters in blizzard brawl

[drifting aurora]

ok and tom is any better?

[regal spire]

Tom is a decade old, he’s lived his life and served his time

[drifting aurora]

tom doesnt even exist in game anymore

[rotund gust]

Haily my favorite wynncraft character

[regal spire]

Tom lives on as the junkrat, I think (I don’t play overwatch and just assumed based on his rocket launcher)

[rotund gust]

irlok is just a quest npc. He has literally nothing going for him. He tells you to kill krolton, and you get your reward from him that’s all he is

garwick atleast has a use outside of his quest with the tp scrolls

[regal spire]

These guys are old farts, though. Their stories are good as done

[drifting aurora]

my point is saying lucio and elphaba wouldnt fit in but tom somehow does is crazy

[rotund gust]

haily is just a random npc in meaningful holiday

[regal spire]

Well, he IS the 2nd major Christmas quest related NPC, it’d be a disservice not to include em

I’m just saying, there’s just a bit more merit to Tom’s history compared to Luigi and Elmo

[rotund gust]

Lucio and elphaba are a lot more story relevant. and seeing as the festivals are kinda just asters story magic running wild (at least that’s what i think they are i could be wrong) he’s more likely to have heard of some minor hero’s then multiple random christmas quest npc’s

[hybrid gazelle]

when you adding santa

[rotund gust]

they wouldn’t be that at of place

[hybrid gazelle]

since he is likecanon to wynncraft lore
Like Santa is canon part of wynncraft lore, when he gonna be add to the main roster

[rotund gust]

also add mael or dwendle to blizzard brawl for support so there’s a twain in each class

[drifting aurora]

yeah ok not gonna bother

[rotund gust]

don’t pay attention to my nick name

[regal spire]

Fair enough 3x

[rotund gust]

also bonfire not having character references is weird to me. like even the dropped weapons are generic. it feels weird that with the theme of “using old character to tell a new story” that the other three minigames kinda have bonfire has nothing

it’s kinda harder to slot them in since bonfires “identity” isn’t as strong as the others though (christmas, halloween, and celebration of heros vs. hearthflame)

[regal spire]

I figured the rune involvements were enough. They may hold key to the most important story of all (how the magic even works)

[drifting aurora]

its cause this was the first minigame lol

[rotund gust]

yeah that would do it

[regal spire]

Fair enough 4x

[drifting aurora]

the character theme wasnt really a definitive thing either

it just happened incidentally

[rotund gust]

i do like how it is now though. Out of the 4 though bonfire definitely needs changes the most. it feels the most outdated of the 4

[drifting aurora]

bonfire and heroes need attention

[rotund gust]

heros atleast has the little fair in detlas. although the scavenger hunt being changed up would be nice

[regal spire]

Bonfire doesn’t actually feel all that bad, but it doesn’t give much leeway for a comeback, in any disadvantage

[rotund gust]

none of them feel bad. i’m just finding stuff to complain about cause it’s fun

[drifting aurora]

i meant the minigames here

[regal spire]

You’re basically gonna be hoarding runes for the right moment, and then praying you get a good weapon

But the potential for debuffing and movement with the runes is really fun

[rotund gust]

bonfire defo needs the most attention for minigames. Hero’s is alright but nothing special. then blizzard brawl is just over watch and banish the beyond is just dead by daylight

granted banish the beyond is actually fun unlike dbd though

bonfire could use a full rework. hero’s just needs more content to it, at its core the minigame is good it just feels lacking

[regal spire]

The best thing about Minecraft is the fact it’s movement is very easy to understand and significantly more fun to manipulate, especially compared to a game like DBD

[rotund gust]

bonfire is just capture the flag though. it feels like a hypixel minigame or something

[regal spire]

DBD looks so boring, tbh, might as well play a Roblox version and save myself the money

[drifting aurora]

im fond of battle for the bonfire

[regal spire]

That’s not necessarily a bad thing, tbh. I kinda wish more festivals didn’t just have one type of game

[rotund gust]

battle for bonfire isn’t bad on its own. but in comparison to the others it’s not really the same level of quality

[drifting aurora]

if anything, heroes is the one i feel is the most... janky

[rotund gust]

idk one per festival is fine. if you add more queue times for them will get even worse

[regal spire]

I want Wynn build battles with Wynn textures and assets

But we’ve already got 4 mini games, so my dream is gonna be put on hiatus 😭

[rotund gust]

heros is definitely the hardest to understand how to win. banish the beyond is just dbd, the goal is survive or kill. Blizzard brawl is just murder the other team. bonfire is capture the flag. meanwhile hero’s isn’t as self explanatory

like resource and hero phase? huh. Am i going for the center or am i supposed to stock up for hero phase, whats the point of killing other players if most will be my teammates later. Hero phase the hero either dies instantly or just will not die no matter what

and the festival combat is definitely at its most jank in heros.

in concept it’s cool though. in the first half everyone fights to be the hero, and then in the second half everyone teams up against the hero

but siegfried pisses me off. mans will not die no matter what

tisaun is also annoying since he can hit you very easily before you get in range

festivals in general are cool though. i do hope they continue to change atleast a little every year. get slightly better each time

although i get the feeling the next few festivals will stay relatively the same with only cosmetic changes like firey bonfire crates

[bleak torrent]

Host one yourself on housing or smth

[kind lily]

Turn bonfire into mineplex domination and @foggy zinc will pop off…

[hybrid gazelle]

Design for Lari, Servant of Light in ROL rewrite

Honestly the idea of fighting Lari in ROL is very appealing because it's this breaking point of her character that could develop her into final stage of her character

I think what happen in current Finding the Light is fine in its lonesome, it just everysurrounding the crashout kinda suck

HOnestly in the new rewrite I wish I could have actual Lari fight to the same extend that the original quest does but sadly that has to be scrap due to how the crash out would happen in the rewritten quest

now refering as "fight" with big quotation from Finding the Light to Headless History because I feel like not only I give Lari more room to display her more developed character in later parts but I think if it anyway for Lari to have justify breakdown is the time she has to confront reality and cut ties with the past to improve herself

Well the reason I put quotation in the fight is mostly the fact that it would be change to Lari trying to protect you but due to her mental state, she actaully become a hazard to you as well. There will no true fighting her since it more like a survive as she trying to kill all Dullahan's servants while you try not to get into the cross fire.

TBH this "fight" is more of a hint on what Lari could been with her power fully utilize which then being put on full display in Realm of Light quest where you fighting dernic forces alongside her

[foggy zinc]

So true

[rotund gust]

thinking about the festivals. It’s storytelling magic right? Is aster considered the “author” or is the magic itself the author of the festivals. Is everything just asters interpretations of these characters or are they like.. magically accurate. Are his brothers actually his brothers reincarnated through magic, or just his vision of his brothers brought to life

[rain saffron]

this looks so cool! Im scared of her now though 😰

[hybrid gazelle]

Lol yeah Lari definitely shown much more capable in this rewrite

there is a scene in my mind rn where Lari taking down threat in the background while you advancing through Realm of Light

where one section where you have to fight through horde of dernic creatures while they spewing out from whale carrier wayy out of your reach until Lari swoop it to completely obliterate the carrier, allowing you to progress

[rain saffron]

oh wow

Backing away slowly

[hybrid gazelle]

again tho sad that she did not get her fight with the player in the rewrite but oh well

maybe some way in the future to implement it

[hasty spoke]

New a hunters calling material?

[hybrid gazelle]

TBH I prefer no because it just does not really work narrative wise and I think it would be redundant LOL

[hasty spoke]

Fair, it’s already about being the villain and killing the good guys, it wouldn’t really add much

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah it just not gonna add much to the quest and just make the quest longer for no good reason

[potent sleet]

Wait hunter's calling is killing the good guys?

[hasty spoke]

Aledar and tasim makes more sense for the boss, sience it’s literally full circle, but Laris boss fight was much harder at least for me

Kind of? I am not the person to ask

[potent sleet]

I never played the quest

[hasty spoke]

Go do it!

What level is your highest profile?

[potent sleet]

All 4 are 105, only 2 have beaten EO

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah they make more sense for the narrative and god forbid I rather not give this community an ammunition LOL

[hasty spoke]

I don’t want you to get spoiled on it any more, I recommend going in blind and if you can’t beat a boss, ask for a carry

[drifting aurora]

it's a mix of both... he is the author figure, essentially, but the magic has a mind of its own. he can direct and shape it, but it does draw upon real things when doing its work

[rotund gust]

So like.. for example let’s take claim to heroism siegfried. The magic draws upon the real siegfried, (or the public image/story of siegfried) and then puts it through the lens of asters ideas of him to form his appearance in claim to heroism

does that imply aster afraid of colossal rat 💀

wait but aster can’t know about a lot of those characters. Siegfried dying is constantly hidden from the public, so his ability being revive doesn’t make sense from that explanation. Neither do half the spirits in banish the beyond.

it’s intentionally vague but still

unless asters omniscient which would be funny

[regal spire]

Maybe the magic is omniscient, and all it needs to do its thing is for Aster to simply have even the faintest idea of the person/thing

I’d imagine Aster merely creates the image, whilst the bits he can’t control do their thing, making things like Siegfried’s revival mechanic

Honestly, how much of Siegfried is even real? Did he ever do anything close to slaying actual dragons/stopping hundreds of orcs?

[hasty spoke]

Maybe there were many accomplishments that everyone just associated with Siegfried

Like how colombus didn’t discover America, or that the earth was round, but many textbooks say he did both

Maybe the sky raiders slain the dragon in sky islands, but eventually everyone who knew died and they didn’t want to tell their children a band of criminals saved them

[rotund gust]

lore reason for my rank not syncing on forums and discord 😔

lore reason is the bovemist god hates me

[hybrid gazelle]

One of the thing I want to explore in rol is also different between Aldorei and efilim clothing to show the different culture between different elven civilization

This is simply a tease for the rewrite Aldorei’s secret quest line but verbally I want to go for the idea of Efilim elves are what elves usually are without Orphion influence their culture unlike Aldorei where Orphion have completely overwhelm their attune to nature to the point that is secondary feature to them

Efilim view the light as part of nature and the world itself while Aldorei view he light as something otherworldly and beyond this world

[true eagle]

idc about books

[tight mango]

is it really bobs corpse in nesaak? idk it seems too basic for being the hero of the land

and how old is Tarod for him to know bob and still be chillin

[exotic bough]

the bobs letter discovery indicates that bob likely faked his death to get into dern. his current status is unknown.

[glacial mulch]

I just thought of something that might technically be a plot hole? Maybe someone can explain it.

How are you able to damage the parasite in NoL BEFORE completing the A Journey Beyond quest, considering the blacksmith only then cleansing you of the dark element in your soul and allowing you to damage creatures of darkness?

I think the parasite is completely fair to consider a creature of darkness

Any thoughts?

[zinc quarry]

idk maybe being in nol has a similar effect?

[exotic bough]

Ajb has funky lore. I think some of the stuff like the darkness element isn’t hard canon and so is being unable to damage dernic creatures. Afaik just ignore the whole darkness spiel in that quest.

[limber swan]

what is the lore behind this?

[south kernel]

email support

[rotund gust]

don’t they say it’s only certain dark creatures that are immune to non-darkness. Basically making the wither in AJB even more out of place

[bleak torrent]

Journey beyond dark element is stupid therefore it is non canon

[midnight bison]

[regal spire]

My favorite thing about Wynn’s bad parts of the lore is that it’s not canon, and will be changed later

[hasty spoke]

Capitalism

[hybrid gazelle]

Redesign EIh for the ROL rewrite

his frog form still exist but that mostly for post quest

I completely remake Eih overall while kinda like combine his role with guardian tree in the rewrite

which mean guardian tree do not exist in my take on ROL rewrite but I will explain later when I talk about Eih
I think Eih as character is pretty weird not because he featured in a funny quest but his existence is kinda confusing because like he is messenger of the Light but for some reason also have no presence in the lore at all. I feel like it kinda undermine ROL in my opinion because wtf you mean there is messenger of Light running around but we dont know if Lari ever interact with him

Like in the original quest his dialogue like some nod to what happen or whatever but overall it just exist and it really weird that they never bring him up again despite the implication. Some people dont even know if he is real or not LOL

So my take on the character is pretty much just overhaul his role as messenger of Light into something else while reintroducing heliolux into the setting. Now he is serve as more like guardian tree where he act as the seal that prevent Lari from access ROL. His reasoning for sealing ROL with himself is because after Parasite manage to burrow its way into Light's secrect, it would overwhelm Eih and drain him from the Light resulting in him going berserk before it went into ROL to siege the Nexus

So he would seal himself to prevent further damage and thus result in sealing ROL as well in which later Lari and the player reawaken him and have a fight in his berserk stage

but that like very rough summary of Eih's new role in the rewritten ROL

as for removal of guardian tree, I just do not like the idea of guardian tree. I just think its existence is pointless and only exist to spew out lore dump at the player and that it.

[regal spire]

Love this ethereal rendition

[hybrid gazelle]

Playing around how ROL entity could appear as

[blazing sable]

gate guardian scp :o

[hybrid gazelle]

LOL I Knew someone gonna mention that but tbh I dont really meant to reference that

[blazing sable]

thats fair its a cool name

[regal spire]

I’m surprised there aren’t more entities in RoL that have the taproot growing from them

[hybrid gazelle]

I really wanna capture weirdness of ROL with more angelic stuff

like some ROL entities are not even creatures just objects

[regal spire]

Love how there are a ton of eyes throughout both Dernic/The Eye’s influence and Lights influence

Puts them on a similar level of concept, both aiding in the almost eldritch inspiration for both

[hybrid gazelle]

I think the eye just overlap thematic that connect the two together

because it even shown in Corruption with burning iris

[spring kernel]

RoL will be getting more eldtricth type enemies in the future

to make it more similar to darkners

[regal spire]

Cannot wait for Orphions Tail at the Nexus Outlook

[rotund gust]

https://tenor.com/view/deltarune-ralsei-fact-check-darkner-true-gif-2880648568442993696

[hasty spoke]

I don’t know if this was how the whole evil/good speech was meant to be interpreted, but I almost think of light being a second infection, just the foil to darkness. Like Galeem and dharkon from SSBU. Neither are good, but they must be in balence or one will grow too powerful

[regal spire]

Pretty sure that’s how it’s meant to be interpreted, but it’s definitely not narratively shown like that

Lights been losing hard, which turns it into a victim in the eyes of the story. However, I’d really like to see how orphion would try to overtake Dern

It’d be really cool to see what kind of story could be made villainizing the light

[dim plover]

That and humans have a natural bias to light anyway

It’s like a biological instinct thing

[rotund gust]

https://tenor.com/view/scp-foundation-united-states-government-broadcast-alert-system-stay-away-from-the-light-gif-16272006

[regal spire]

Wish we didn’t, tbh

Hate how one sided the conflict feels, despite the fact that I’d hope orphion would behave like Dernic beast, if the opportunity arose

[dim plover]

Can’t wait for the twist that Orphion is even worse than Dern Beast when we finally turn the tides

Then we have to stop the light this time

[regal spire]

Reverse of SSBU

I want a penultimate battle of both sides just destroying Wynn

Then, we’re forced to find a new world… in space (2018)

[rotund gust]

i don’t understand why light is usually analogous to good. Blinding light is worse than pitch darkness since it burns

the last time i was a player in d&d (cause im forever dm it was a whole go) i played an evil white mage whose signature ability was casting light and then putting my hands on peoples eyes to blind them

light being neutral or evil is a lot more interesting then it being good

[regal spire]

Blinding light is bad, but darkness quite literally cannot sustain any plant life/vegetation. Makes me wonder why mushrooms don’t represent Dern more, because they thrive in damp, dark caves

Both are deadly, but I wouldn’t exactly say one is more or less

[rotund gust]

true, but sunlight can also cause skin cancer (granted it’s more complicated than that but still) I guess that’s a more modern discovrry so it wouldn’t really affect historical ideas of light = good

darkness > light any day

[regal spire]

Light sustains a majority of our natural life, but distance and the cover of “darkness” balances it out to ensure that it doesn’t overpower it. Without the dark, we’d all burn alive and the earth would be as uninhabitable as mercury or Venus, but too dark and it freezes over, killing everything all the same

[rotund gust]

fear of the dark is basically just fear of the unknown for most people, not dark itself

[regal spire]

Fear of the dark is fear of nocturnal predators/thing we can’t see. We’ve got to be afraid of it, because something can very easily hide in it.

[dense python]

instinctual thing

[regal spire]

However, a darkness with nothing in it is one of the most relaxing experiences, imo. Gentle light with a cover of dusk is just an entirely different kind of ethereal

[dense python]

one of your most apt senses at detecting danger is now impaired so fear response kicks in to make sure you can bolt away if you get caught by surprise

[regal spire]

Even pitch black, it’s basically our eyes when we sleep. “It’s lulling, the abyss”

[quartz mist]

would love to change that eventually

[rotund gust]

if yall ever revamp the gylia or llevigar plains secrets one for him would be cool

or even add a book cinfras library about him

[warm flicker]

i will never understand why the llevigar and cinfras libraries are basically inaccessible unless u find a secret way in. The other secret libraries are supposed to be ancient and lost to time, but theres still people in these two libraries. Are we the player just too stupid to find the door?

[regal spire]

It’s because they were actively kept more exclusive, needing staff to access it for you. Llevigar is accessed by getting the staff key to open it, and Id assume the same to be the case with Cinfras, had we not snuck in through the roof.

There are incredibly ancient and important records stored in some of these libraries, which means that letting anyone into it at will is dangerous to the integrity of the information stored. Great libraries always had intense security to ensure precious records weren’t stolen or destroyed.

[warm flicker]

on another note, the dialogue between these characters is so good and i wish we had more interactions between different characters

[spice bloom]

if Detlas is to be the main player hub than it would be cool if every now and then a new group of two-four characters were to stay in Detlas and chat

like one day its these three but another day its another group like the dogun elders meet the avos chief or something

[quartz mist]

I have had plans for tisaun for ages, they just are, like many things, on the backburner

[warm flicker]

enjoy my sleep deprived ramblings of the anatomy of the Toxic Wastes, wynncraft's largest living entity!

[dim plover]

I still miss Naragath

(I know he’s implied in random festival dialogue but I meant in relevance)

I had an idea of how to being him back but modern Dern lore might forbid this

[weary sigil]

ok ima bring this up since a lot of people seem to get this wrong. we already know somewhat what the Dern beast looks like. It appears to be sort of a one-eyed dragon or something similar

[hybrid gazelle]

"A lot of people seems to get this wrong"

No it literally just a hand made out of block LOL that already vague in itself

what part of it even a dragon LOL

[weary sigil]

fair

but you can see sort-of wing-like arms resting on the throne armrests

[hybrid gazelle]

this is minecraft we talking about, these set of blocks give barely ANY info

[weary sigil]

as well as the singular eye on a snail/slug like stalk

[hybrid gazelle]

These wing arm can be something else again these are just stairs blocks we barely have somethign to make out of

like how yellow part of the eye before 2.1 was suppose to be crystal

[weary sigil]

either way i think its pretty clear the dern beast isnt some kind of stag or fox like orphion is

[hybrid gazelle]

okay but like where LOL

you cant just take these vague detail and think it like a concrete evidence

[weary sigil]

1. singular eye on a stalk
2. large winglike arms on the throne armrest

[hybrid gazelle]

What stalk????

And again that wing-like arm could be something else again you cant take minecraft mimial style for granted

this is literally the eye before 2.1

it fine to headcanon dernbeast as a fox but I dont think you should take it as a fact because the little info we have

[weary sigil]

im saying the dernbeast ISNT a fox

[hybrid gazelle]

Oh yeah I misread

[weary sigil]

also look at this

you're telling me you dont see the giant eye on a stalk there

[hybrid gazelle]

no? That could be just eyelid

do you mean these wooden part

[weary sigil]

"could be an eyelid" yeah i dont think u see what i see
no

[hybrid gazelle]

Do you mean the dead bush part'

[weary sigil]

this part

[hybrid gazelle]

that an arm

[weary sigil]

nope. the eye is resting on it

[hybrid gazelle]

and the ender rod is the claw
you can see it pointing its finger with ender claw at the end here

[weary sigil]

unless it's holding its own eye out

[hybrid gazelle]

It literally holding its eye out
It rip its eye out and give it to Bak'akl

[weary sigil]

oh

ig i didnt see that part

[hybrid gazelle]

have to use olinus footage but you can see it here reach its hand into its POV

and next shot have blood gushing out from its pov before next shot having it holding its eye and say "The tower stands. Bring my gaze there. From on high, it shall blossom. And then my will shall exert upon all."

[rotund gust]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/262010576295821312/1249085281630683236/thei.gif

[rotund gust]

interesting that it calls pre-eye EO “the tower” it’s not really tower like, more like a gate

[twin sail]

@foggy zinc

[foggy zinc]

WHAT

thats me

IM the dern beast guys

[rotund gust]

real

[foggy zinc]

ender claw

[hasty spoke]

Imagine the fruma expansion reveals that the entire province is ruled by the aluminum fist of The Dern Tyrant Pepsiman and the crystal sovereigns.

Also I just realized that the eye is the actual eye of the Dern beast, which explains why pepsiman has no eyes, he ripped it out and put it on EO

[regal spire]

I’m still running with the headcanon that we’re going to fruma to ask for aid/enlist the sovereigns help in managing the Silent Expanse

Everything regarding our own past is just a byproduct of exploring fruma. Besides that, I see zero reason as to why we’d just be let into fruma, other than as some sort of messenger

[rotund gust]

tasim’s gonna pull up in detlas and say “hey soldier, you wanna go to fruma” and that’s it

[regal spire]

If he does that, I’m gonna have a conniption

That might ruin the story for me entirely, so it better not happen

[hasty spoke]

Wait what if the sovereigns try to colonize it

[rotund gust]

“i was gonna ask aledar too, but i haven’t heard from him recently”

“come to think of it i haven’t heard from elphaba or lucio either, not that you’d know them”

[regal spire]

If fruma doesn’t start out with us meeting with the King of Ragni properly to discuss an audience with the Fruman Queen for whatever reason, I’ll blow a fuse

[hasty spoke]

Like reverse America, they send an expedition there but they all die of disease

[regal spire]

Because, story wise, SE is just kinda sitting there, opened and free

[warm adder]

isnt this the eye from fantastic voyage

[regal spire]

Surely this provincial wide threat in the midst of another apocalyptic disaster with the portal isn’t exactly something they’d just forget about

SURELY this will be answered in Fruma

[warm adder]

theres 3 realms 3 provinces fruma is the third province do we think another realm will come with fruma

[regal spire]

You could argue the realm of war is realm enough

(Tired of calling it that, it’ll always be the nether to me)

[foggy zinc]

tbf i think were the only ones who know about it

[hybrid gazelle]

No The eye from Fantastic Voyage is the Eye LOL
this is just Nexus of Light mobs

[warm adder]

oh

[foggy zinc]

horrors only known to our comprehension
actually ig rhyming man does too but thats it really

[regal spire]

I don’t think that’s entirely true, because they had to get the info from somewhere that SE is even there, and they had to get permissions and supplies for it—supplemented by the Detlas regiment or Wynn whatever. But, even if that’s the case, the army should definitely know about this.

[foggy zinc]

fair

[regal spire]

Creatures of darkness having almost full access to Wynn, now, should be alarm bells sent across every important military official in the entire world

[foggy zinc]

se quests are old kinda wish it got some more tie in like how other ones have done so

[regal spire]

(Also, the mage island dudes had to have figured it out from someone)

[warm adder]

what lv req do we think fruma will have will it be like a low level accessed from recover the past lieke a fast travel from one of ragnis doors or something else like a high level area

[edgy jungle]

definitely a high lvl area, at least lutho lvls

[warm adder]

where did silent expanse even come from

[warm adder]

no nvm this wouldnt make sense bc fruma was the one that closed off the doors to ragni because of the realms opening up

but because of that do we think fruma will have less mobs

[rotund gust]

rol 4 says there’s other realms besides the main 3, they doesn’t don’t matter for the war of realms

[warm adder]

well

[rotund gust]

my bets are that fruma is either Realm of Magic or Realm of Order/Peace

[warm adder]

o ok

[warm adder]

do u think fruma is gonna be a low lvl req to get in and high level places and stuff like gavel or a hgh level req to get in and like high level places everywhere l ike silent expanse

[limber swan]

fruma will not have other realms

[regal spire]

It’s minimum 105, as of now

[warm adder]

for fruma?

[limber swan]

theres like 3 realms and the place of existance

[regal spire]

Yes

[warm adder]

dang i wished there would be some quests in there
or i mean with fruma update couldit maybe increase max level from 106 to like 111 111 being the easter egg level

[regal spire]

It is increasing the max level

[warm adder]

oh nice

[regal spire]

Don’t know how much, but I’ve heard somewhere that it wouldn’t be beyond 120

[rotund gust]

three you must know implies there are others that we didn’t need to know for the war of realms story

[warm adder]

it shouldnt

[regal spire]

Apparently, that’s just a poor wording on their part; there are only 3 realms

[warm adder]

but what happens to the people who are already at 106 will their xp like scale to match what level they should be at

[regal spire]

No, they’ll just be 106

[rotund gust]

https://tenor.com/view/nuh-uh-beocord-no-lol-gif-24435520

[regal spire]

Fair enough

[warm adder]

but shouldnt it scale because 105-106 is the same xp as 1-105

[regal spire]

They’ll just give you more exp

Just like what they did with 101-106

[rotund gust]

i’m betting fruma will have a realm, but it won’t matter in the slightest to the main plot

one that isn’t an invading force like dark or war, or what some people think light is

[regal spire]

If fruma got anything, it’d be something to do with darkness, or an SD with a very secluded, very contained bit of corruption

[warm adder]

fruma should add netherrite armor frfr

[rotund gust]

idk, given that fruma’s whole thing is seclusion and it isn’t shown in the RoL 4 cutscene, i don’t think it will be darkness

and it would make more sense for it to either be a counterpart to wynn’s war, or completely unrelated

the only thing that makes me question whether or not fruma could have a realm is corkus. The rest of the ocean seems tied to war or darkness somehow, with the undead everywhere and dead island. Corkus doesn’t seem affected at all though

[warm adder]

0i l;oj/ifvds;loihhfds

[regal spire]

Avos magic is inherently light based, maybe. Dullahan seems to have a pretty similar type of control over nature, and elves are historically associated with light 🤔

[warm adder]

corkus really is just a big island trying to be a province i guess corkus's problem is their mech stuff

[rotund gust]

true

[rotund gust]

yeah but my point is their problem seems unrelated to a realm. Wynn and the rest of the oceans problems seem to be corrupted undead or darkness related. SE is a mess of mostly darkness, a bit of light and a really small amount of corruption, and gavel seems mostly light

[rotund gust]

grookwarts nature magic lesson be like

[warm adder]

whats this area behind ragni

[regal spire]

Haven’t done poopwarts in years

[spice bloom]

Besides dead and skien island there isn’t that much corruption/dark influence tho, unless I missed something

[warm adder]

dont you get a good bit of le

[regal spire]

Mhm, but that requires new characters, and I’ve only fully leveled 2 since 2.1

[warm adder]

oh

[rotund gust]

galleons maybe

[hasty spoke]

Tutorial area

I don’t remember galleons being corruption but I guess seince he’s reanimated maybe

[rotund gust]

ghost ship near the ice nations

sarnfic is filled with undead

[regal spire]

Plus, I’ve done the quest 7 times, it’s boring after you’ve done all the classes

[rotund gust]

There’s just a suspicious amount of undead in the ocean, and reanimated dead is a corruption thing

[regal spire]

Apparently, he’s just too angry to die

[spice bloom]

True

[regal spire]

The ocean seems to have Lazarus properties (new theory?)

[spice bloom]

I have a theory

Gavel: province of light
Wynn: province of war
SE: province of darkness

Fruma: province of death / life

Fruma / the Queen unlocked immortality / necromancy and can reanimate dead / corrupted bodies, wipe their memories, send them to Wynn

Would tie with Death and their realm maybe

Think about it: how are they sending so many people to Wynn while being able to uphold their own army?

[hasty spoke]

That’s kind of insane though. People can just live off of pure will, maybe the corruption is pure hate and will

[rotund gust]

Hold on hold on you just reminded me those exist. new eaten dern theory stuff (i’ll get around to it trust)

[regal spire]

Dern was eaten mmmm yummy

[rotund gust]

cause like, gavel and wynn have a life granting spring, but the SE doesn’t. Trust it’s in the realm of dark cause it got eaten trust trust

i’m not crazy

[hasty spoke]

I guess us being dead explains how we are incredibly strong

[regal spire]

They basically supply “criminals” and—my personal theory—test subjects bred and experimented on to test the effectiveness of brainwashed soldiers

[rotund gust]

could be. Idk the more the topic of the realms comes up in this channel the more i’m leaning toward the idea that none of the lands should have realms. Light and dark are both just invading forces. most realms like the realm of death aren’t tied to real places

[hasty spoke]

Actually, we are dead, death literally kicks us out of his realm every time, but wouldn’t that just be reanimating?

[rotund gust]

i think fruma will have a realm, but it’s not out of the question

[regal spire]

The ladder of the 2 is definitely a bit of a stretch, and would require actual evidence beyond head canon, but it definitely feels right to me

Keep in mind, though, Wynn does a huge portion of the soldier supplementation. They’re practically bred for it

[rotund gust]

it would be cool to see what a realm of death style land would be though. but death doesn’t seem the invader type

[hasty spoke]

Maybe it’s like death’s door where the queen has an deal with death to end the wars

[regal spire]

Children learn to slit a throat before they learn their ABC’s up in Wynn, so it’s not far fetched to believe that fruma’s support is just an added portion of quicker, more army-ready soldiers

[spice bloom]

I agree, I think Fruma would be more thematically associated with life/death, not necessarily tied to it via portal to a realm or something

Because between Light, Dark and War, life and death would make sense for another two “realms”

[rotund gust]

idk peace also makes sense. Light and dark are counterparts creating war when they clash, a place unaffected would be peace/order

[spice bloom]

Or, maybe once we arrive back to Fruma they will activate some magical brain chip in us and make us work for the Queen to take over the entire Wynn province for Fruma

[regal spire]

I’d imagine death would fit that criteria for a realm of peace

[rotund gust]

i also like magic too since fruman nobility are very powerful magically for a reason we don’t know yet, so realm of magic would work

it’s a vague concept but realm of secrets could also work (war is also a vague concept compared to light dark and death so it’s fine)

[regal spire]

Realm of secrets kinda fits the void, though, no?

[rotund gust]

as far as it seems the void is a special case

[regal spire]

Shits filled with undocumented, impossible to conceive worlds, so it fits the criteria better than any real realm made for it could

[spice bloom]

Realm of peace is quite interesting

Maybe Fruma is a utopia similar to Lutho where they have such strong mind altering magic they basically turned the whole province into the matrix

They send off the bad apples to stop the war because their goal / the Queen’s goal is total peace through ultimate control

[rotund gust]

its an in between space between realms and plane of existence. like d&d’s astral plane

[regal spire]

Ik, which is why having an entire realm of secrets wouldn’t really fit, since we’ve got the void

[rotund gust]

hence why tears in reality like void valley or the shattering create entry points into the void

so the void kinda is a realm in its own right? but also isn’t. Its its own thing

[spice bloom]

It’s the inter-realm, like the nothing-space between them

[rotund gust]

the void is the blackness and stars in the background as far as i can tell

[regal spire]

It’s basically a world filled with fragments of other worlds, morphed and warped by whatever void magic there is

[rotund gust]

there is no war in fruman walls

[regal spire]

Very secretive, and very mysterious. You could wade through the void for eons and still only scratch a tiny portion of the incomprehensible nature of it all.

[hybrid gazelle]

that one fucking avatar reference become Fruma entire identity despite being removed from the game LMAO

[spice bloom]

Exactly

[rotund gust]

but also you could go on a circle. like the lonely void sending you in one direction and you end up back where you started

[regal spire]

It was so ridiculous, how could it not

[hybrid gazelle]

God bless wynncraft and their pop culture reference bit them in the ass

[rotund gust]

voids weird and more or less unrelated to the various realms (well except for dark trying to conquer it through greg)

[spice bloom]

Lmao what if the first quest in Fruma is you go to the Ragni King and he explains the new realms and it’s just this but with a realm pointing North and one South

[regal spire]

The fact Greg is just “a dernic creature sent to eat” is kinda horrifying. How many more Greg’s are there, and how many more concepts like it exist in Dern alone

How the FUCK is lari gonna survive in there when 7 more Greg’s meet her ahh

[rotund gust]

not even sent to eat. greg is trying to escape the realm of dern. It turning the void dark is just a byproduct

[spice bloom]

Lari is dead full stop bro 🥀 now way she survives one day in the SE let alone Dern

[regal spire]

Lari is so mentally unstable, girl couldn’t make it even half as far as Relend

[spice bloom]

She probably got eaten by that worm that got the one guy in Journey Beyond

[rotund gust]

the goat referick living without his soul

[spice bloom]

Under the huge arch in the mining road

[regal spire]

I got the name wrong 😭

[rotund gust]

“that one guy” 💀 you mean aledar?

[spice bloom]

Oh I forgot I thought one of the other ones got eaten, I forgot he gets eaten but survives cuz we save him

[regal spire]

And it still had merit, Referick and Relend put more effort into fighting the darkness head on than lari is ever shown to do

[rotund gust]

relend dying is kinda sad. bro says “i’ll save my friend! and i’ll do it without a single scar!” and then immediately gets no diffed. (and then the eye just… lets us go? still not clear why)

[regal spire]

Pretty sure the eye intended to send us where he sent Relend, but we kinda moved out of the way or redirected it towards the portal in the mine

[rotund gust]

what’s up with the portal in the mine anyway. is it the same thing as the equinox point under caritat manor?

[rotund gust]

“sent Relend” that mf got sent straight to the realm of death

[regal spire]

My head canon for it was that it was basically as if we were in a ship that got sent off course, and attempted to readjust itself. It had itself crashing into the closest, most notable vantage point it could find, which happened to be a random spot in the mine. It’s kinda shown that there’s a ton of our own blood just splattered throughout the spot we landed, making it feel like an unintentional crash landing

[wild osprey]

So is fruma just ba sing se

[rotund gust]

basically

[regal spire]

I have zero clue why that would be the case, but, the eye clearly didn’t think us powerful enough to actually survive the encounter

[wild osprey]

Cool

[rotund gust]

fruma is just ba sing se. old version of recover the past even had the “there is no war in ___” scene

[regal spire]

If fruma goes the actual Ba Sing Se route, then my “Message for the Queen to warn everyone about the uncovering of the silent expanse” has even more merit.

[wild osprey]

Yeah thats why I asked cause I remembered that

[spice bloom]

the eye just could not stand Relend anymore, wanted to obliterate his ahh

[wild osprey]

Wait they changed recover the past?

[rotund gust]

yeah

it’s fairly different now

[regal spire]

They made it match better with the proposed look of Fruma, and made the brainwash scene less stupid

Also, Tasim is involved now

[wild osprey]

Wait whos tasim

[rotund gust]

aledar & tasim the tutorial people

[regal spire]

Final boss of hunters calling

[wild osprey]

Ohhh

So fruma is coming out this year right

[regal spire]

As of now, that’s the plan

[storm willow]

Maybe

[regal spire]

Personally, I don’t expect it to reach the 2025 deadline

I’m on the fence on whether or not I want it to release in 2025, because one side has me thinking “oh, better make it as stable and good as possible before beta”, while the other side has me wanting this shit to release asap so my guild mates will play again

I wanna graid at least for an hour please 😭

[rotund gust]

presumably. december 31st 11:59pm

[regal spire]

I’m just really not in the mood for another 1.20 type of release, where it took 4 months for the update to be stable, and we still don’t have things released that were anticipated

I’m hoping that a beta release is in 2025 of December, but an actual release could be even 2 months after, if they pace out patches properly

[rotund gust]

i feel like fruma won’t be as buggy as the last few major updates. 1.20 added raids which were fully new, 2.0 added a whole new spell system which was bound to be buggy, and 2.1 completely revamped the mobs.

Fruma probably won’t be as buggy since it seems like it will be more of a content expansion using existing systems, rather than new systems

unless they decide to add whole new systems in fruma (new class new class new class new cla-)

[drifting aurora]

the eye kicks you out of wherever youre at, but relend accidentally falls through the cracks

[jolly kayak]

excited for the cata major id and base damage buff when fruma drops

[rotund gust]

so relends either in the backrooms, or he’s just gonna appear in void village one day

[wispy bay]

anyone knows what triggers this dialogue? (im in se lootrunning, never seen this before)

[rotund gust]

huh

[wispy bay]

i assume its wynntils translated from ancient wynnic or smth

but never seen this particular dialogue before

i did kill a key guardian like a minute before

[pure pivot]

i see it in eye forest all the time idk what iti s

[drifting aurora]

only thing i know that does that sorta ominous text is the key guardian

[rotund gust]

but the eye guardian says something else

[wispy bay]

ye, thats why i was confused

[rotund gust]

lootrun random events actually spawning?

[regal spire]

The fact that it’s been an entire year since implementation and people have still not even noticed some of them

How many of them even work, because I know SE has like only 2 that consistently show up AND work

[hasty spoke]

Wait there’s random events?

[regal spire]

They’re generally small, except some of the ones in Corkus

(Also, idk if there are any in places like CotL, Molten Heights, or even Sky Islands)

[hasty spoke]

Oh wait is one the ulcer in gwaranii

[regal spire]

I wouldn’t know, I never see more than 1 type

I just recently noticed the Avos one that summons a super powered kill you machine whenever you kill some Avos guards

[hushed zinc]

I remember there being an ambush inbetween where the supply wagon and the rare dragon bone is in molten heights, but they're so rare that I've only seen it 1-2 times

Like that under area near the elevator connecting the zones

[dim plover]

Wait is this on the wiki
I want to see it

[regal spire]

The wiki is entirely devoid of all random events in lootruns 😔

However, if you do a Corkus lootrun and just farm a bunch of avo’s citizens, it’ll show up

(Idk if there are any green names, but specifically the yellow ones you need to kill)

(Also, I’ve only ever seen it by the “do not enter” sign by the avo’s town entrance, with all the blood and viscera)

[wispy bay]

Update it happened three more times in that lootrun

Hadn’t had it happen even once before that on several lrs

[rotund sphinx]

I don’t think that’s a kill avos thing, those just kinda appear in certain areas afaik

[wispy bay]

Oh so it’s like the bandit in molten or the fanatic carver in corkus that randomly just spawn in

[regal spire]

Fairly certain it is, though, because it has only appeared at that specific location.

And, it’s only happened when I hit/kill any avos, which is pretty replicable

[lunar jungle]

I probably just wasn't paying attention or whatnot but what's the deal with your soul just leaving you in a hunters calling

[regal spire]

I can’t remember the exact reason, but it’s something to do with the obelisk and its ability to take your soul into itself, leaving your body at the whim of darkness. You’re just kinda trying to fight them both from taking you apart

[pliant plank]

Bob

Aladar dead

lari vanish

[hushed comet]

ts what the doguns were doing in dwarves and doguns pt 4 😂😂😂😂 Retweet ts

[robust anvil]

^

[potent sleet]

Tasim is 100% going to Fruma with us isn't he

Just played the revamped Recover the Past quest and hoo

yeah no the way he reacted to all that was a significant sign that he's got hell to pay for what Fruma did, especially because he got a glimpse of his last moments in Fruma

[regal spire]

Considering he’s the only one left of our tutorial trio, I’d be shocked if he didn’t try to join us

[rotund gust]

i struggle to think of who else it could be. Maybe one of the other recover the past npc’s? but none of them are all that relevant

[regal spire]

Maybe one of the scientist brothers could join us, idk

Comic relief

[rotund gust]

i’m hoping the replica memory restorification orb from blizzard gets a use

actually yeah i wouldn’t be surprised if Sohso ends up being a major fruma npc

him and Tasim are the only named characters i can think of with ties to fruma that have a reason to be there

none of the recover the past npc’s have much of a reason to go back

[regal spire]

There’s a chance that the admiral aegis quest line will be properly implemented, and whatever regiment we develop from the available storyline will join us in our messenger quest to fruma

[rotund gust]

king of ragni maybe?

[regal spire]

Probably not, since a figure head needs to remain in their given capital, especially during war times. I could definitely see a representative, similar to the sovereigns, joining us

[slender copper]

Don't know if #🌎wynncraft allows for later level decisions about certain NPC character, so I'm gonna say it here.

I feel so bad for Lari, girl just wanted to not fight and to have peace and now she has so many regrets and mistakes. Two centuries... TWO of them.

Some villagers don't listen to her, she's grieving the loss of her friend she needed to trap, I would be so confused too if some human comes along and is able to enter the Taproot! Especially one you just met.

[solar ingot]

Imma just say Lari is the reason why Gavel is so fked up

oh wait this is lore discussion

[slender copper]

Yep... enter the "mistakes" part of my statement... could have been much worse turns out if she got BITTEN by the thing.

[solar ingot]

her friend was ""corrupted"" because she didn't attack in a life or death situation

[slender copper]

Yeah, it was only quickened after they went to the waters of life thing to raise them from the dead.

[solar ingot]

she did ruin everything by trying to be pacifist in a war

[solar ingot]

war which ended up being worse because of her being pacifist

[slender copper]

Yep... so many regrets... really makes you think to how different everything would have been if Lari used the full scope of her Light magic.

[solar ingot]

I don't really like when a character tries so hard to be pacifist in this kind of situations where everything is already fked up

and lari doesn't really help when you realize that 90% of gavel problems were caused by her

[regal spire]

I can understand if she had only 1 shot to get it right, but she fibbed it twice. And the entirety of that second time was filled with people telling her to just do her job, and get it over with. That’s where her character falls the most, because now, instead of it being ignorance, it’s arrogance, and the idea that she knows better than everyone else

[solar ingot]

this is why orphion supports you, because you know what has to be done right in the first moment you enter the province

[regal spire]

Anyone with any sense of agency, no matter their religious or ethical/moral position, would EVER try to do the same mistake a second time, especially after the thing almost killed her

[solar ingot]

lari took almost 1000 years to understand that

[slender copper]

Yeah, looking at the walkthroughs (haven't done part 4 and 5 yet) she really started to dug a hole for herself even deeper as we discover more of her lore.

[regal spire]

The fact it’s portrayed as her needing to understand that, but everyone in her entire social circle is saying “dude, you’re wrong, and you’re gonna kill us all thinking this”

Because of this connection, it’s no longer her needing to learn and understand, but her needing to get over her superiority complex

She’s had nothing but people telling her to kill this one thing. ONE thing. One that is ACTIVELY DESTROYING the thing Elves held as a literal deity. Their god.

[slender copper]

Also. Seems that part 4 of this really cuts deep to this... especially with her snapping and attacking us.

[solar ingot]

the decay absolutely destroyed half of the light forest (including gelibord and olux), forced llevigar citizens to get the hell away from there

[regal spire]

Which is the most inane thing ever. She’s driven to action because her ego is hurt

That’s the biggest turning point for her. Not anything of any real substance. No, her ego was damaged because we were doing a better job than her

[slender copper]

Yep... and it was because a human was blessed by their god... which as the elder elf said "you should be glad with this aid".

[slender copper]

And that also.

[regal spire]

Which, actually, I’m completely fine with this. I’d love for her to be this egocentric, literal elf who actively tells people she was chosen, which means she is right. But she’s portrayed as someone whose self reflection isn’t that she’s the problem, but that her “morals” are. There isn’t anything moral about her decision, she’s just going with what makes her feel the best, not what is actively best for her god, her people, the entirety of gavel, etc. Her morals are based in such a selfish disposition, it’s impossible to ever show her as anything other than

Morals are established societally for the betterment of the mental wellbeing of people at large. Ethics take a more political, lawful approach to the organization of it, but morals are made for the better of the emotional and mental wellbeing of the people. If there’s a mentality that goes against this, it’s either morally grey, dubious, or “wrong”. That’s what should be understood, and it needs a character who actively portrays that personality better

[slender copper]

Yeah, and that tree REALLY shows that to her... which I'm glad it did because we would technically... at that level of the quest... be dead.

[regal spire]

He doesn’t, really, but the idea is there. Don’t like the direction of a huge text dump by a tree after having a literal conniption fit, but it’s what we got

[slender copper]

Eh- it made her cooperate enough, at least.

The text in the walk-through was a bit blurry so may have misread.

[regal spire]

Lari needs either a different story, where her agency is tested only once and she has no second chance, or she needs a different character with the lore we have

[slender copper]

Also... now that I think of it... is there a canonical explaination to why "???" refers to us as "My pulse" in part 2?

Unless they just like saying that their heart is beating. Saying ??? because I'm unsure if it's their god or something else.

[regal spire]

Metaphorical comparison as us to their “heartbeat”. (We vibe on the same wavelength as them)

[slender copper]

Hm, judging from how Lari is... makes sense. Now remembering the last part in the 5th quest... do we ever... "save" the god, or is Lari pushing Ba'lak into a portal all that was needed. Or is there like a dungeon in the Realm of Light. (More of a question but still somewhat on topic)

[regal spire]

RoL 5 has us open NoL, and then we complete the raid, where orphion tells you the exact answer to that

[slender copper]

Ahhhh... I'll likely figure out soon to what the acronym of NoL is when I reached the level for it.

[regal spire]

Nexus of Light, the raid unlocked by Realm of Light 5 quest

NoL and RoL

[woeful vigil]

Lari doesn’t understand utilitarian concepts and that she should sacrifice her morals for the sake of everyone else’s wellbeing

[regal spire]

What’s funny is that her morals aren’t at all reflective of what her people even stand for. They’re entirely self made, and “justified” because she was picked by Orphion.

They’re more like a coping mechanism, tbh, less of anything based in any substantial understanding or care