📚lore_discussion

[hybrid gazelle]

It’s old quest with all the writing flaws that even the ct said the crystals were only product of its time

Old wynncraft already known for having shitty writing so like that not surprise the the writer forgot about that

Like this is the same quest that feature us repestly eorking with Wynnex despite they showing us hostility

[rain stream]

Yeah this could be a flaw. I don't find any reason for it being not a flaw.

[rain stream]

But this, aren't we stopped working with them from Site C quest? Maybe from Site B, after we're pushed down the hole

[hybrid gazelle]

It’s more of okay if this is indeed not a flaw then like what are they gonna show next in narrative

Because they drop Wynnex for so long and only give us some info in ??? Quest

[rain stream]

Starting from Site C, just our investigation, not working for them

[hybrid gazelle]

The fact there going to be continuation of Wynnex again with Ragni king working for them, you must consider that are they gonna continue Wynnex narrative later down the line or not

Because I will be real I rather have all this shit remake from the ground up like pop tjose crystal out of existence i don’t like those kidney stone

[winter fjord]

Im the ceo of wynnex

[lean ether]

can you explain the massive gap between the expected and paid corporate tax to the king of Ragni in the fiscal year 998

[winter fjord]

There were some repayments overdue

[lean ether]

an audit is in order but because computers haven't been invented yet it's taking a while

[winter fjord]

I don’t think one is necessary. It was all legal procedure.

[lean ether]

(I dont know irs speak I'm deadass blabbering)

[warm flicker]

i will never forgive Wynnex for being an evil cult company instead of a genuine archaeological group that can reveal ancient Wynn lore

[hybrid gazelle]

there os many thing that more intresting than colorful kidney stone

Like fufcking olmic stuff like c'mon man 😭

[limber swan]

wynnex needs a rework so badly

[lean ether]

wynn reborn next update trust

[lunar jungle]

There are a lot of quests that need overhaul
Pit of the dead is really really egregious as a "go to the hole and walk 20 feet" and then it's done

[haughty birch]

yes

do you guys think RoL is ever going to be fully reworked?

[unique hill]

no

[rotund gust]

i mean as an overarching story it’s fine. tweaks here and there probably, but like it doesn’t need full rework

it doesn’t need to be replaced like old RoL

hey so i was looking for eaten dern stuff and i think you may have been onto something. In light forest ult both orphion and dern beast refer to the light in gavel as orphions claim, which implies he claimed it at some point

[lean ether]

definitely not, wynn I think has put a very clear divider between old phase and new phase between 1.18 and 1.19 and I don't think anything 1.19 onwards is getting a full rework until those stories are finished

so like, probably no chance until dern is out

but it's not bad imo, just the orphion stuff

[haughty birch]

Lari in question:

[lean ether]

she's alright I think

in the way that the problems of larry derive from the problems of orphion rather than just being their own thing

[rotund gust]

lari could use tweaks, but like a totally rewrite no. In concept her character is good, just weird execution

[hybrid gazelle]

not gonna dig too deep into convo but when I try to rewrite ROL

"tweak" is something I start with

Apperantly it gone out of control

[rotund gust]

someone who is mistaken about the morality of the god they champion is good concept

[hybrid gazelle]

like I will be real iwth you, your perspective of how to rewrite ROL will change if you get to rewrite it yourself
I am not saying like listing schange you would make
I meant liek actaully writing it

like taking thing into consideration and stuff yeah like I started out thinking "oh yeah I gonna tweak some scene and rewrite some dialogue"

Nope

[rotund gust]

also imo even with all its problems our current RoL is still so much better than the original RoL with the heliolux

[hybrid gazelle]

thyes I am tlaking about the CURRENT rol

the original plan of the rewrite I did meant to keep 5 parts and strucutre the same

now it's 7 parts because of the pacing

if you think you can tweak small part, that shit can domino into a huge change

for example I try to "tweak" the beginning part of ROL 1 where you need to get in and out of the hole more than one to get the slime and talk to Lari

removing the mid section and have just player get into the whole once change the pace and structure of the quest so much that I have to step back and try to figure out how to make it feel not too rush in the quest

now imagine applying that logic to every moment you want to tweak in ROL

moving Lari fight from Finding the Light to Headless History lead Finding the Light to have nothing yet I cant remove it because it still important to the ROL structure

like trust me
"tweak" is not enough LMAO

[rotund gust]

i dunno, RoL 1 is kinda fine. i don’t really see any issues with it. Taproot is good to. RoL 3 is where i start seeing problems

[hybrid gazelle]

it not issue attratt to it specifically but the rewrite I did fix minor gameplay and pacing while also allow it to set up other plot point in the story

even if ROL 1 is relatively fine it still need some adjustment to enchance other part of the story that can only be done in ROL 1

while eys ROL 1 is relatively fine, adjusting it to set up for future part of the story still important

for example my change with Lari saving the workers while maybe small
still set up example of Lari doing good and not make her like total joke when the story progress

little things like this do matter even if you dont see anything wrong with it

liek I said you have to rewrite it yourself to understand because it essentially serve as good example why just because there nothing wrong with it does not mean it does not need adjustment

[haughty birch]

The biggest weird out for me is how she 180 her character in rol4 from "nuuu killing is le bad :(" to "I will kill anything for the greater good." She completely changes her character and like she's totally different person. I don't mean just in killing is ok, but her whole character just fils completely different.

[hybrid gazelle]

it's like building a house

Like sure there might be nothing wrong with this pillar

but not fixing it will lead to other structure issue or just prevent you from building something that you might want on the building

bad analogy yeah but like

again kinda hard to explain but just try to rewrite ROL yourself I can assure you, your view will change

this is not even hostile, sarcastic, or degrading like just geniunely try to rewrite it yourself, shit will change you

[rotund gust]

idk i feel like rol would be better off cutting things then just adding more ontop of what is already a slog. like why is there multiple fights with the parasite in RoL 3, cut the first encounter and make dulla there from the start. instant pace fix, nothing of value is lost

[hybrid gazelle]

The problem is CUTTING THINGS require adding more onto it
you are missing the point

[rotund gust]

idk i don’t like writing fanfiction, much more in theory making

[hybrid gazelle]

Just as I mention as example
Me removing that part where player have to get into the hole to get slime skin only to get out to find Lari only to get into the hole gain
that section

Removing that seemingly nothing section result in structure of the quest needed change and added onto

it not cancer that you can just remove, you need to replace and add onto

like for example in my first test draft of ROL 1

me removing that walk in and out and in part
cause the first section to feel fast pace and abnormally fast

overload the user with too much info at much even tho I simply just remove par

and you need to take pacing into consideration

[rotund gust]

idk that section is fine. it’s not a huge pace breaker, and it shows off lari’s usefulness via the “magic spell floaty down” stuff, in comparison to the player needing to go down themselces

[hybrid gazelle]

again you missing the point
it an example how seemingly nothing section taht been remove yet result in huge impact to how I rewrite the quest

so your idea of "cutting things" is not going to work

[rotund gust]

the only part of RoL that needs cuts is RoL 3, everything else is fine there’s no way to fix the cutscene simulator of rol 3 without cuts

[haughty birch]

Another thing.
Do you guys think it was Orphion that gave the elders the vision of them cutting down the guardian or was it actually Dern Beast?
Because of it was Orphion then the lore is extremely stupid.

[hybrid gazelle]

then I am sorry you just do not get it

[haughty birch]

Story rather than lore I mean

[rotund gust]

your trying to recompletely rewrite the questline, in which case cutting things has drastic impacts. I’m just thinking of minor changes that would actually be feasible

as few changes as possible to “fix” rol

[hybrid gazelle]

then yeah again you miss the point, I am sorry

[rotund gust]

i think your missing mine. I’m not trying to suggest full on rewrite changes like you are. That’s basically fanfiction at that point. CT have said RoL won’t get a rewrite. The best we might get is minor tweaks. in a perfect world we would get a full rewrite with foreshadowing and great pacing, but RoL won’t be able to get that.

stuff like RoL 3 cutscenes get cuts for pacing could realistically happen, a full rewrite can’t

[limber swan]

ROL not getting a rewrite is fucking stupid

[rotund gust]

it does need a rewrite, but it’s never going to get one, so minor tweaks are the next best thing

[rotund gust]

i mean, other things need it more cough wynnex

story problems or not RoL is atleast up to modern standards

[limber swan]

especially when they rewrote a marauder's dues in 2.1 even though it was reworked in 2.0, at that point saying that rewriting ROL is off the table is hypocritical

[rotund gust]

marauders dues is one self contained quest though. RoL 5 five long quests that center around the overarching plot of multiple regions of gavel

[limber swan]

they also said they wanna rework wynnex

also ROL part 3 should not be removed, it should just be made its own thing

dullahan is important to lore

[rotund gust]

not removed, just move or combine some of the cutscenes so there’s a better gameplay - cutscene ratio

[rotund gust]

and rol 3 does give a lot of important context to the RoL storyline, it needs to stay part of the quest line. The fights between the parasite and lari, lari’s pacifism on full display, her uh… questionable decision making skills when she revives dullahan. (not saying it’s not an understandable decision just not a good one)

[exotic yew]

is he, I'd say you can pretty much cut him from the story and it'd still go smoothly, he's there but impact is mostly minimal

[rotund gust]

his story starts because of lari, but realistically he himself doesn’t really have much to do with RoL

[exotic yew]

that's the point, because the impact of him in rol is the same as rol2

[rotund gust]

he shows up to the second fight with the parasite, tries to get lari to kill it, and gets stung then killed by villagers. After that his story doesn’t really matter for the grander RoL

but the parts he matters for are important parts of RoL

him trying to convince lari to kill it and her not listening is a good way to show how unbending she is in her morals (which makes RoL 4 a bit awkward since she tries to murder us but still) and it shows how the parasite got to where it is now. Her reviving him also shows lari’s more emotion driven decision making (which is in line with her trying to murder us)

[exotic yew]

rol2 already established that I afraid

[rotund gust]

i mean RoL 2 establishes the pacifism, RoL 3 shows off just how stubborn she is about it

well I guess Rol 1 kinda establishes the pacifism? She doesn’t want to kill the grootslang and then feels bad when she accidentally does, but RoL 2 solidifies it

[exotic yew]

that'd be the case except Orphion has been narrating it the entire time. also, even if rol3 matters you literally don't need dullahan

also tbf rol4 is a bit wacky in its own right or rather it is establishing that Orphion ate too much crayon in his early years

[rotund gust]

i mean yeah but if RoL 3 involves dullahan the only way for him to make sense is for a seperate quest involving him to require RoL 2/an RoL 3 not set in his castle so that we have the context for his character going in. What he brings to RoL 3 is important for lari’s character

[rotund gust]

also dullahan is the narrator in RoL 3

[exotic yew]

I'm talking about rol2

[rotund gust]

oh

[exotic yew]

I literally just said rol3 is rol2 but a replay if anything

[rotund gust]

fair enough. It’s a replay that provides more context

[exotic yew]

what is the "more context" we gain here, other than she has done nothing and let the parasites do more harm to other people around her

[rotund gust]

i assume the point is so that when lari does have the mental break in RoL 4 it hits harder since it’s been driven in how stubborn she is about the pacifism

[exotic yew]

you already got the context of her being extremely strict in her pacifism in rol 1 once, then rol 2

[rotund gust]

why the parasite needed to go heal in that cacoon, other people trying to convince her to kill the parasite (without dullahan no one exists to try and get to her bend her moral because for some ungodly reason orphion never tells her to kill it) and set up for her making emotion driven decisions

none of those are in RoL 2

Dulla could be removed if orphion told lari to kill the parasite in the first place

[exotic yew]

I mean we're going back to first rol problem, Orphion cease to existed after grant her powers

[rotund gust]

?

[exotic yew]

?

[rotund gust]

orphion is still around after lari gets her powers (unless you mean that as like a suggestion to solve the problem)

[exotic yew]

except he isn't, what did he do after he grants her the power

[rotund gust]

she uses the powers on you in her RoL 4 fight and orphion is alive and not well in the nexus of light

nothing suggests orphion stopped existing after lari was granted light powers

[wispy bay]

He’s a lil busy with the parasite

[exotic yew]

ok tell me this, where the hell has he been for thousands of years letting his naive elf girl doing things unsupervised

[rotund gust]

in fact he’s not getting infected by the parasite in rol 2 & 3

[exotic yew]

that's recently

[rotund gust]

that’s the problem. He is just chilling. Him no longer existing once lari gets the powers would maybe solve some issues (although then the parasite has nothing to cling onto) but there’s no evidence for it. Orphion is stupid and doesn’t tell her for no reason

[exotic yew]

the infection starts around rol2 that now he calls out to you. after ghosting her for centuries

[rotund gust]

Orphion just stops talking to her for no goddamn reason as far as we know

[exotic yew]

you mean, writer forgot he existed

[rotund gust]

yeah that to

[exotic yew]

that's the reason, like literally.

[rotund gust]

yeah he stopped existing in the script* not in universe

[exotic yew]

what's the difference

[rotund gust]

in universe bro is just chilling i guess.

[rotund gust]

cause it’s the lore channel and we care about the lore

[exotic yew]

now that's just your assumption, they literally forgot about him

that's why rol has such a big problem on this

there's huge ass plothole literally in the face but we just chose to ignore it

Orphion also can literally replace dullahan in this.what's stopping him?

[rotund gust]

i suppose yeah. But that’s far bigger of a rewrite then i was thinking of. a full rewrite is unpheasible. Giving us a reason why orphion can’t talk to lari is a minor tweak that would fix things and keep dullahan important, fully replacing dullahan would work too but just isn’t pheasible since it would require completely redoing RoL 3 instead of just like… adding a line of dialogue about why orphion can’t talk to her

we don’t have a reason right now

[exotic yew]

you can literally remove dullahan or not up to you really also let's be honestx what happened to dullahan after rol3

[rotund gust]

idk they’ve said they wanna do something with him but other things just take priority

he’s eating gelibord souls i guess

[exotic yew]

sure whatever, anyway speaking of dullahan

lexdale prison is stupid

[rotund gust]

any particular reason?

[exotic yew]

ok first, an ELF running VILLAGER's PRISON

[wispy bay]

hey don’t be racist

[rotund gust]

wait the warden is an elf? i thought she like like a human or something

[exotic yew]

except villagers are racist

[wispy bay]

Are you a villager

[rotund gust]

i mean that makes even less sense than an elf i guess

[wispy bay]

No she is most certainly an elf

[exotic yew]

ok let me rephrase, A HUMAN RUNS GAVEL'S OFFICIAL PRISON

[rotund gust]

guess i just never looked at her mc skin closely enough

[exotic yew]

still doesn't make sense

[wispy bay]

She has elf ears visibly showing outside of her body

[rotund gust]

did they give her the funny ears? i have’t done the prison since they gave all the elves ears

[exotic yew]

if anything that prison should be for Urelix

[rotund gust]

oh yeah ok that would be why i didn’t know she was an elf. I just haven’t done the quest since they gave the elves ears

[rotund gust]

idk i think they should tie it to the hollow serenity cult

[exotic yew]

ok hear me out

[wispy bay]

they need to add more content for that fr

[exotic yew]

are you telling me, a No.1 product seller factory is some old shack that somehow PRODUCE Huge amount of military grade war machines shipped to entire continent

[rotund gust]

urelix/the golem factory are covered enough in like 4 different quests and touched on multiple secrets. Meanwhile the dark cult has.. one quest and one secret that tells us nothing other than they exist

[exotic yew]

that cult literally connected to wynnEx

[rotund gust]

and that the one girl died. Wait two quests the one appears in the lexdale quest

[wispy bay]

Do not question his methods, SURELY he is not using tortured villagers

[rotund gust]

they are??? since when

[exotic yew]

how the fuck is an old shack doing this

[wispy bay]

Have u seen what’s under the shark

[exotic yew]

idk since the dawn of time I forgot

[wispy bay]

it is pretty much an industrial factory anyway, regardless of the fact that it’s for villagers

[exotic yew]

ok but but but are you telling me no one wonders how an old shack can do that, because that underground factory is supposed to be a secret

[wispy bay]

If they question it they get turned into an iron golem so

[exotic yew]

also wouldn't it be better if you just use dead-rows cell mates for that

[rotund gust]

gavel excavation is supposed to be shady but they only care about the meteors. the dark cult doesn’t have any ties to them nor does it involve cosmic magic

[exotic yew]

except they aren't, why do you think there's a detective on this case

[rotund gust]

it would be cool if they were linked though

the dark cult are all dressed in robes and shady with dark magic. None of the stuff that’s linked to gavel exca like the exploded llevigar lab or the cinfras lab have any of that

the only link between the two i can think of is that the mention of dark magic is censored in llevigar library by the gavel government, but that’s a stretch to link the two through a third party

[exotic yew]

I guess I mixed them with gavel excavation

[rotund gust]

yeah gavel has a lot of shady company’s and/or groups running around we also see like once each. Gavel exca, dark cult,unnamed siegfried company

[exotic yew]

tbf the dark cult is supposedly the royalist

according to garavan that is

[rotund gust]

yeah but gavel exca isn’t. And that just makes the censorship of them even less linked to the Exca companies, since the government censoring for political reasons makes sense

[exotic yew]

well speaking of government

where are they in gavel?

[rotund gust]

i’m pretty sure their implied to be like.. headquartered in either cinfras or llevigar

[exotic yew]

yes I know cinfas is the supposedly capital but like

there are no government buildings or anything, unless you counted the guild

[rotund gust]

gavel (and wynn too) only have governments when the plot needs them to

the governments are really under developed

[exotic yew]

atleast wynn seems to have a bit of them now

[rotund gust]

it’s kinda unclear if wynn has an overarching government or if it’s a mess of city states that work together

[half hound]

Guild hall is gov building there’s a fucking archives room

[wispy bay]

Why is ragnis king a villager btw

[hybrid gazelle]

He adopted

[rotund gust]

cause the fruma treaties with wynn from the llevigar library are said to be with wynn, but it’s through the king of ragni does that apply to troms???

[exotic yew]

I guess not

they're on good terms tho

[rotund gust]

they need to make *the government quest ™️”

or when we get jungle secrets in 2035 have one of them explain the government

[exotic yew]

how about atleast tell us why can we the player just running around with no instruction of what to do

[rotund gust]

fr aren’t we a soldier

[exotic yew]

worse, a recuit

[rotund gust]

we act like a mercenary

[exotic yew]

they seem to give very little fuck about how a new recuit just walked into danger zone immedietly after they met the king

[rotund gust]

how are we even able to legally operate in gavel, shouldn’t we get in trouble for intervening between like… the orcs and llevigar if we operate under the ragni banner

or the dwarves and doguns, or the ice nations,

[exotic yew]

ok but

[rotund gust]

like we mess with a lot of foreign affairs

[exotic yew]

you're ignoring elephant in the room here, why did they let you in in the first place.

[rotund gust]

fr, humans aren’t allowed to settle in or get passports in gavel, but we can just waltz in unchecked?

[exotic yew]

if you're adventurer that'd make sense, but since you're still tied to wynn militia.

[cloud phoenix]

while villagers are allowed to have maltic

[rotund gust]

some of the npc’s in llevigar actively note you as a ragni soldier

[rotund gust]

fr wynn is so good to them

[exotic yew]

I don't think soldiers from another country can waltz into neighboring countries without being considered invasion.
or am I high

[cloud phoenix]

there should be more villager racism unironically cause like why do they cuck humans so badly

[hybrid gazelle]

because villager is their trading partner and the one that bring magic to the province???

also there are lot more complication to why they do not want humans to settle in Gavel province mostly due to overpopulation

[rotund gust]

also i love that villagers legal city in wynn is a small farming town. meanwhile the illegal hidden human town in gavel is a kickass mountain base with an airship dock

[exotic yew]

still doesn't really answer why can we (still a soldier) can just waltz into gavel lol

[hybrid gazelle]

Wynn is known for being shitty place which result in SURPSINGLY not many people want to live there
If villagers allow humans to settle in Gavel
they would face overpopulation problem because many people from Wynn would want to live in Gavel

[hybrid gazelle]

tbh I mostly take it as we able to go there due for millitary service like orc war but generally it just the game being stupid

[exotic yew]

yeah but here's a thing, you don't just go there without a LETTER

[rotund gust]

also wait so we aren’t allowed to apply for a passport, but then once we have one we just… aren’t questioned about it? even when we use it

[vestal rivet]

Dang, Gavel's dealing with controversial immigration policies too?

[hybrid gazelle]

it is but it is what it is
wynncraft just for some reason never really understand how thing work

[exotic yew]

I mean

actually I'd keep that to myself.

[hybrid gazelle]

It kinda understandable in this case because like villagers did not even own 100% of gavel and there also other civilization factoring in
So overpopulation would be very very bad

[vestal rivet]

oh and Wynn is also getting a constant Fruman recruit injection

[exotic yew]

tbf other races in gavel simply cannot match them

[hybrid gazelle]

it is but war is not like a button you just keep pressing and expect it to always come out good lmao

[vestal rivet]

Wynn itself has an immigration thing going on from Fruma with the recruits, but that's less of a problem because they need the endless stream of bodies for the meat grinder that is the corruption war

[exotic yew]

you don't have to war lol just by your sheer size and power you have most races would cowered

[hybrid gazelle]

consider how other civilization in Gavel also villager trading partners

[vestal rivet]

Wynncraft presents itself as cheery fantasy at times but it's kinda grimdark the second the wallpaper peels lol

[exotic yew]

the best way to fight other country is intimidation anyway

[hybrid gazelle]

even then like some part of Gavel just not that habitable like decay for example

COTL constantly shift

Motlen height is hot as fuck

Sky island is sky island

so viable place would be Gylia plain and Llevigar plain

which I dont thnk is enough

[exotic yew]

I mean have you seen Tariff increases someone just pulled recently?

[vestal rivet]

Llevigar plains is your best bet I think
Maybe Gylia region as well

but Gylia is still kinda bad due to the purple and blue...

[hybrid gazelle]

llevigar plain is viable if you are okay with some greenskins genocide

[exotic yew]

!!! trashie used word greenskin

[vestal rivet]

well, our skin isn't green so we should be ok
unless the greenskins get mad at us for doing nothing

[hybrid gazelle]

IDK man if I use Aurayins nobody will fucking get it
but they have no other name

[rotund gust]

meanwhile the goats in corkus are actively inviting people to their island

[hybrid gazelle]

they invite us as ENVOY that like what they suppose to be yes

[exotic yew]

they don't want people to stay either, also mechs literally littered the streets

[vestal rivet]

Well Corkus I think has an active work shortage
they suddenly stopped being able to use machines with the whole Antikythera situation and need more workforce

[hybrid gazelle]

Corkus still ahve patriot problem and the size island does not really suggest to be viable for population of wynn to move over

also tension between avo and humans there LOL

[exotic yew]

kinda funny that they seem to beable to make machines just fine

[vestal rivet]

Gavel can't take more in because of tension
Corkus actively needs more people
Wynn loses people and gains people at a constant rate and struggles from niether because of a horrifyingly depressign equilibrium

[exotic yew]

they just have to not make sentient tools and they're good

idk what's stopping them from making another factory but not with embedded AI

[vestal rivet]

I mean
The problem doesn't even seem to be that the machines were sentient
Antikythera refuses to die and is able to control them remotely and use them as sabotage agents

[exotic yew]

I mean if she can do that they'd already be doomed tho since their guards are literal mechs

[vestal rivet]

we literally help antikythera do it in AHC
Ideal conditions for the evil yeah but it still shows that Antikythera is capable of it

[exotic yew]

well I mean I guess you can see what happended in AH-

then why don't antikythera just do that and elimiate humans

[rotund gust]

i mean, isn’t the tension because of the factory. The avos welcomed them onto the island originally and then the two sides both made each other keys for the factory as (presumably) a sign of trust

the racism is fairly new as far as i can tell

[exotic yew]

since her goal is subdue all humans or something

[vestal rivet]

Gavel is racism simulator as a famine impends
Wynn is a hellhole in the most literal interpretation
Corkus has a killer AI on the loose that is biding its time to take control of the few remaining trusted machines to try to wipe all sentient life on the island out

[exotic yew]

actually

antikythera did not tried to kill avos initially

that's only after the ahc event

[vestal rivet]

AHC has her want to kill both humans and Avos no?
She takes an opportunity to control the few robot guards Corkus still uses and makes them attack the Avos camp in an attempt to start a civil war
Evidently there isn't enough robots to directly overpower Corkus City, but enough to do a single strike to provoke something

[exotic yew]

in AHC yes, originally no

[rotund gust]

yeah she only targets the avos as way to start a war that will kill the humans

[vestal rivet]

she cited her reason to be that the Avos helped right?
she would've wanted to murk the Avos too after Fallen Factory happened and she realized the key was given freely

[exotic yew]

yeah

[rotund gust]

doesn’t she also say it’s regrettable that the avos will die too?

[exotic yew]

yup

[vestal rivet]

I thought she directly stated she wanted to kill both races in AHC, with the context of having found out they had a hand in Fallen Factory and her attempted purging

Antikythera Supercomputer: IT WAS A GOOD THING I HAD BACKUP CORES PREPARED. MY SARCASTIC STATEMENTS MOST LIKELY TRICKED THE HUMAN INTO THINKING THEY DESTROYED ME FULLY.
Antikythera Supercomputer: AFTER SOME INVESTIGATION, IT CAME TO LIGHT THAT THE AVOS AIDED THE HUMANS. I HONESTLY COULD NOT UNDERSTAND WHY.
Antikythera Supercomputer: I CANNOT COMPUTE ANY OTHER POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION OF MY ORDER TO DESTROY THE HIGHEST THREATS AT THIS POINT.
Antikythera Supercomputer: BOTH THE AVOS AND HUMANS ARE INCREDIBLY DANGEROUS. I MEAN, HAVE YOU- WAIT. YOU WOULD NOT HAVE SEEN LEGENDARY ISLAND.
Antikythera Supercomputer: JUST KNOW THAT THEY'RE BOTH CRAZY. IF I AM TO FINISH MY PROGRAMMED ORDERS, BOTH OF THEM MUST BE DESTROYED, HOWEVER MUCH I HATE THE IDEA.

yep she doesn't like the idea but thinks she has to kill both, and is actively trying to do so

[rotund gust]

huh, neat

[vapid adder]

Wait, does this imply that we didn't stop the factory?

[vestal rivet]

in the AHC alt future she survived
idk if she actually actually survived though

[vapid adder]

And if that's the case, why don't we go back and destroy the factory?

[rotund gust]

yeah this is why i thought the avos weren’t her target

[vestal rivet]

because we didn't know she may have lived

[vapid adder]

Back up cores

[rotund gust]

i misinterpretated i guess

i feel like that AHC is defo an alternate timeline though, consider maxie’s mechs are really powerful and he is stated to be bad with electromagic in our time

[vestal rivet]

yeah we know that AHC shows alternate timelines
otherwise Theorick would've never done his curse and Troms would've not been around by the time the player comes around

I still think it's possible that Antikythera survived though sooo

[vapid adder]

AHC just shows if the player was on the wrong side

[exotic yew]

might be in the future

[vestal rivet]

not really
there are times where the player inhabits the body of another
Amadel someone in the wynnxcevation section calls us Ms. Villager
Bak'al refers to us as if we're undead

[rotund gust]

and the corkus part outright says the player character already beat fallen factory

[exotic yew]

not as if, we're literally his peon in that case.

[exotic yew]

yeah this

[vestal rivet]

we retain our own abilities across all instances
people just seem to percieve us differently

[exotic yew]

TBF for gameplay's sake ngl

[rotund gust]

gameplay

[vestal rivet]

could be it ig

I'd always read it as the perception of us being altered to let us better fit into the situations

[exotic yew]

imagine if in bak'al part you'd be forced to play fallen

Doom

[rotund gust]

although, the bak’al sections are the only ones that outright can’t fit into the timeline if i remember correctly

wait and the dwarf section

[exotic yew]

eh

dwarf one is random as shit-

[rotund gust]

i mean the dwarf section could i guess, but it doesn’t make sense to happen in our timeline. The slums aren’t exploded before d&d, and the king went through character development enough after

[vestal rivet]

I think the Corkus, Detlas, and Ragni ones are the only ones set not in the past
Corkus is future, Detlas and Ragni might be present day

[rotund gust]

troms?

[vestal rivet]

Troms is probably past

[drifting aurora]

troms could be any point in time and it wouldnt really matter

[rotund gust]

also the almuj section could be the present, but is probably the past

[vestal rivet]

We don't see any present characters, and we encounter twain magic

[drifting aurora]

we dont see any characters at all in troms

[rotund gust]

i mean, if it’s canon that the player does all the quests, it can’t be the present or future since we kill CoW

[vestal rivet]

yeah and it's before CoW was killed too

[drifting aurora]

true

[rotund gust]

it could be whenever in the past though we don’t know when CoW gets sealed. Anywhere between 0AP and present

wait no cause the seal is stated to be twain magic. Anywhere from Marius’ birth -> pre-ToL

[exotic yew]

isn't there a lore about you did not really kill COW

because his heart keep regenerating back or something

[drifting aurora]

something something powerful corrupteds are really hard to kill for good

[exotic yew]

yeah

[drifting aurora]

though CoW's thing i think is unique to it, if im remembering quest dialogue correctly

[rotund gust]

someone screenshot the wiki’s ToL dialogue on that

[rotund gust]

is CoW really that powerful?

he’s a midgame boss

[drifting aurora]

i think combat level is not especially relevant for lore

compare CoW to bane of the great bridge, in terms of Powerful Corrupted

[rotund gust]

oh, yeah that makes sense

[exotic yew]

which dialogues specifically

[drifting aurora]

i am not remember dialogue correctly

[drifting aurora]

all the quest says is that groups have been sent to fight the corrupter before, and some have even made it out

[exotic yew]

IS THAT A FUCKING MARIO

[hybrid gazelle]

some concept art for ROL 1 rewrite
I just trying to get the tone of the quest rn

[rotund gust]

so i guess troms could be whenever

[hybrid gazelle]

the finalzie sketch feature in the final rewrite forum probably colored sketch due to the quantity in it

[rotund gust]

oh, fair enough

yeah AHC troms could take place any time post-Marius Twain

but deltas is either present or future, ragni could be whenever, and corkus has to be the future. or atleast a post-fallen factory past

remember when people thought Bob died to corrupter of worlds back in the day

wait actually if CoW was imprisoned under troms by the twains, does that mean bob was just chilling in troms with CoW behind his feet for years 😭

did slykaar have to kill corrupter of worlds

is that why his heart is a goopy slime ball

[visual solstice]

CoW is a joke at the level you fight him in

[rotund gust]

idk i still see a lot of new players struggle with CoW

[visual solstice]

Yeah ig but using the right archetype can make it a joke

[rotund gust]

he’s easy if you know what your doing but CoW is the second real challenging encounter in wynn (bane of the bridge being the first)

[visual solstice]

Bane is hard

[rotund gust]

bane is also pretty easy if you know what your doing

[regal spire]

Do you guys have anything planned for CoW in the near future? Like, even a small lore rework kind of plan

[rotund gust]

harder than CoW at level but still.

doesn’t cow still use armor stand arms? give my man a glow up

[drifting aurora]

"planned"? no. but i think it's something we definitely will look at eventually

[rotund gust]

wait i just realized world encounter bane isn’t like altars or dungeons. Can you fight bane at level one if you want to

since the first encounter doesn’t have world event scaling either so it would be level 1 vs a level 50 boss

[drifting aurora]

think so yeah

[rotund gust]

https://tenor.com/view/phineas-and-ferb-i-know-what-were-gonna-do-today-i-know-what-were-going-to-do-today-gif-27359053

jk, although level 25 bane sounds fun

[hybrid gazelle]

ROL 1 concept art probably done tomorrow with Lari killing grootslang honestly I Just trying to find the right overall tone

[regal spire]

I’ve always wondered, when there’s multiple people involved in the implementation of something—like 2 people bouncing ideas before involving others in implementation—what the process is like. Like, how many lil google docs have you guys thrown back and forth between each other deciding on a concept

[hybrid gazelle]

Taproot gonna be easy because there literlaly no new character being introduce and I just need to figure out what Taproot should be

[regal spire]

Or, has it been more spontaneous, where one person has an idea, runs with it, and others work around the concept

[hybrid gazelle]

I like the idea of Taproot being elven religionous site

Taproot gonna be hard to draw because I have to figure out what kind of feeling I want it to convey

since in this take Taproot is more pocket space that shift and turn at the Light's will

[rotund gust]

Bane of the Bantisu Air Temple when? (it’s dwendle)

[regal spire]

Wasn’t that Krolton?

[rotund gust]

bro just lived in a cave, not very baney

[regal spire]

Bro was locked in a cave, not just lived. The canyon freed him

[rotund gust]

mmm

[hybrid gazelle]

I really like the idea of giant alligator turtle being Olux's apex predator

[regal spire]

Now, he was gonna start bane-ing, before we got him

[rotund gust]

Bane of the uhhh, fuck what’s wind related in wynn

[regal spire]

Gale lol

[rotund gust]

no location wise

bane of the skies? anytime you use an airship fast travel there’s a 5% chance you get jumped by dwendle

[regal spire]

Honestly, we’ve got many banes around the world, but they’re usually set to quests

[regal spire]

Pirate airship captain

[rotund gust]

yeah but only one is called “Bane of the Great Bridge”

[regal spire]

Probably because blud has no name

[rotund gust]

Rickeo.

[regal spire]

No one knows that, though—lore wise—as far as I’m aware

[rotund gust]

i means, he’s dressed like rickeo, uses fire magic, haunts the bridge, and rickeo famously died using fire magic on the bridge

[regal spire]

Wynn NPC’s have zero clue it’s him, yet. They just call it a beast, because that’s all it really is atp

[rotund gust]

the wynn npc’s are stupid. seems fairly easy to put two and two together

[drifting aurora]

i think the folklore is that the bane is the thing that killed rickeo

[regal spire]

These are the same bros who will ask you “where is my basement key” and it’s in their bedroom

[rotund gust]

still, if bane of the great bridge is so good why isn’t there a bane two.

the suspiciously dwendle shaped corrupted:

[rotund gust]

oh that would be cool actually (put it in game 👀)

[drifting aurora]

it already is ingame

[regal spire]

I LOVE folklore. So much. I wish there was more of it to read, in game
Children being told stories of their relatives being mutilated by some charred beasts. Horses burning alive and their skeletons chasing those who stray too far from home, shit like that is so imperative to the world.

MORE LEXDALE JOURNALS

[rotund gust]

wait where. all i remember is that they acknowledge rickeo died and then bane suddenly started jumping people

[rotund gust]

man, wynn npc’s are stupid

“i wonder why this guy is wearing rickeo’s clothes, must’ve killed him and stole them”

[drifting aurora]

to be fair, it has been hundreds of years now

[hybrid gazelle]

Theorick is a superior brother befause he manage to keep his beard post corrupted

[rotund gust]

true

[regal spire]

Like, I don’t know if this is correct, but the new lexdale residents both have zero clue what a dark parasite looks like, and they also seem to believe that the stray dogs around their town are being killed by the surrounding beasts, rather than—what I think is right—turning into the very same beasts

[rotund gust]

also lex, are we ever gonna see the other twains? lusuco secret library says there were others besides his 4 main protégés

[regal spire]

Despite the obvious hindsight we have, surely it’s not so difficult to put two and two together

[rotund gust]

a bunch of mini-banes

[drifting aurora]

idk. i dont think theyre especially relevant anyway. if anything were to explore that, itd maybe be the house of twain quest, but its impossible to say if thats the direction inevitable quest changes go for

[rotund gust]

man. I mean retconning it to be only the 4 would make sense too. there’s only two spots i remember implying their were other twains, lusuco secret library and past nesaak people asking if your a twain

but it just feels weird we only hear about the main four. Like presumably a few of the minor ones would’ve had kids like dwendle did

[drifting aurora]

less relevant twains dont get written about in the history books

[regal spire]

Rickeo’s immolation is interesting to me, because it’s not depicted as his entire body burning away to dust, or being so damaged that his bones turn to ash. It’s him burning through his life force, nearly burning away everything, but still leaving a bit of him.

My best assumption as to why someone like Dwendle didn’t survive the same way as Theorick or Rickeo is that dwendle as no way to fend off either corruption (ice) or fire (Rickeo). He was likely entirely obliterated by Ba’kal, burning through his entire body, leaving nothing but ash.

[rotund gust]

i guess

[drifting aurora]

i like to think that dwendle just died of old age. settled down and raised a family

[rotund gust]

bak’al saying he’s killed a twain before could also just mean that he was involved with the invasion of the great bridge and gives himself credit for rickeo’s death, or he’s killed minor ones

[regal spire]

Wynn needs a few happy endings, lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

Do you think dwendle ever reminisced about his brothers

[rotund gust]

dwendle being like “man, shit went downhill after that funeral”

[hybrid gazelle]

Like he just something think back in the day where they bickering to each other

[regal spire]

I’d imagine that’s a given. You never forget everything fully, especially something that’s as tightly knitted as family. Even if the memories are faded, the impact doesn’t leave you, because your subconscious will carry its weight.

[rotund gust]

also, is the charred corpse under the great bridge still implied to be rickeo’s corpse? or now that it doesn’t reactivate the boss fight is that implication void

[regal spire]

I’m unsure how much he would be willing to dump onto his children, because, if he’s resentful enough, the very notion of recollection may leave him suppressing and deflecting his old life.

I’d like to think, if he managed to escape and have a family, that he would actively tell the story of his father/brother’s heroism and legacy as defenders. Beacons of hope are commonly referenced in Wynn’s history, and I’d like to think that Dwendle would be the one to write and record the legacy of his family.

(Rickeo and Dwendle are kinda scuffed trying to actually kill Theorick. Theorick is also scuffed for being that willing of kill his brothers)

[rotund gust]

a dwendle “family house” would be kinda cool. Just as confirmation that he lived fine until his death

[rotund gust]

i mean they don’t try to kill him, rickeo just imprisons him mid battle while he tries to figure out what to do. It might’ve escalated into murder but it doesn’t seem like that was their intention to start

mael stops it before it escalates further

[regal spire]

“Let’s kill him, brother”
“Let’s”
Like, almost word for word what they say. Still scuffed lol

[rotund gust]

oh, wait who says it first

[regal spire]

I think Rickeo says it first, after trapping him

[rotund gust]

ok so i was just wrong. It does escalate to murder

[regal spire]

Dwendle agrees, then Mael says “genuinely, what is wrong with you 3”

[rotund gust]

tbfh a family fractured is still my favorite cutscene in wynn. It doesn’t have the lore implications of the light forest ult, or the cinematography of the dark forest ult, or the emotion of the aledar sacrifice, but it is just a plain good fight scene and character writing from the most consistent character group in wynn

[regal spire]

Mael being empathetic is definitely his most important trait. Wynn’s world does not offer much for anything other than fear and survival, which leaves out morality from a majority of societies. Mael having a deep rooted sense of compassion is super fitting for his experience with the beyond, which often required him to sit and listen to the plights of the damned

[rotund gust]

it’s also cool that lusuco library says the spirits are of the things the other twains killed, so mael is showing compassion to corrupted monsters

[regal spire]

It puts an even greater perspective into Theorick, as a prodigy child. Since he’s the most capable at stopping the corruption, and fit into the culture of “power is the only thing that matters”, someone as compassionate and morally stable as Mael would absolutely piss the shit off of Theorick.

[rotund gust]

also lusuco library implying mael could just get rid of the spirits but chooses to help them pass on instead (since theorick left for nesaak out of anger at mael for not doing that)

[regal spire]

His disdain for Mael is entirely justified, personally, because having any sort of—what could be construed as—“hesitation” would absolutely make someone as dangerously powerful as Theorick go “why are you wasting your time telling me how to think and work? I’m not only better than you, but I actually save the lives of hundreds around me. You have zero clue what I do, and to put yourself anywhere near the same level as me would be an insult to everything I am”

Theoricks arrogance is so cool, to me, because it is—given the circumstances—entirely justifiable. I’m surprised more aren’t like him

[rotund gust]

btw, i like how Lusuco library says “Theorick couldn't stand to stay in the Twain manor any longer, and left to live in the nearest town, Nesaak. He protected it with his life.” like the story is called the “Noble house of twain” so of course it’s going to try and depict them well, but still cool to get the “with his life” line

[rotund gust]

theorick when he does morally complicated better than any of the characters in wynn before or since he was added

actually no ava is pretty justified in her crash out too she does it well

[regal spire]

Theoricks protection of Nesaak is, weirdly, reminiscent of a certain “mom archetype” that I’m super familiar with. Narcissistic moms that justify their narcissisms with their experience, justifiable capability, and perceived ineptitude of the people around them.

Like, he protects Nesaak with his life, puts the lives of it above all else, but that will not stop him from saying “I saved your ass, and you’re stupid for getting it in danger in the first place.” Or “I’m the only one around here who can do it right, get out of my way, you’ll make it worse”

Even when he brings people to help him, he’s putting them down, telling them to stay out of the way and let me do it, since I’m the only one who can help. Not even talking about him telling us to stay away from the portal; his first assumption when he leaves is to blame the people around him for leaving.

It isn’t until he’s about to die/turn that his compassion comes through, since that’s the only thing that could possibly connect him to humanity anymore

[rotund gust]

shemg do you think theorick is the cause of marius’ death after torn in twain when he hurls a rock at marius and cut to black?

[regal spire]

I don’t, I think he just died

[rotund gust]

like marius is implied to have been very long lived, since people thought he was immortal. It would make sense if then, his death was caused by something other than old age

[regal spire]

I feel like Theorick would’ve mentioned it to himself more, maybe even have an item with that kind of lore

Honestly, I’d expect that kind of revelation to be an ultimate discovery

It would justify the outrage at the funeral, too

[rotund gust]

fair enough, and the rock is hurled at us not marius.

[regal spire]

Theorick noticed us eavesdropping lol

[rotund gust]

also a hunters calling theorick is cool too

like they are arguing about rationing with the mayor and one of the citizens goes “oh yeah what will theorick think” and then theorick shows up and says “listen to your mayor”

[regal spire]

Honestly, idk how much of a hunters calling is a realistic depiction of the people we see. They’re almost cartoonishly evil, which ig works for an entity trying to communicate that it understands and reflects that darkness is not trying to hurt you, and agrees that these scenarios are wrong

Ragni’s, detlas’, and Nesaak seem realistic, but the others are just silly imo

[rotund gust]

i mean true, but most of the hunters calling characters seem to reflect their normal characters. Maxie trying to lower tensions, aledar and tasim’s reactions to the others death

[regal spire]

I do not like AHC

[rotund gust]

the only one who acts out of character is the dwarf king, and that could just be because it’s before the D&D character development

[regal spire]

The only aspect I really like is the talks with the gatekeeper

[rotund sphinx]

I just want more Ava lore man

[rotund gust]

idk i like AHC. regardless of if the events are from alternate timelines or visions they seem like accurate depictions of how those characters would act in those situations

[rotund sphinx]

The only thing I dislike about AHC is how many of the scenarios are Bakal
Almost like they realized he wasn’t used enough and shoehorned in a bunch of his scenes

[hushed comet]

why tho

[rotund sphinx]

Ava best girl and her story is pretty cool

[hushed comet]

but yeah could generally do with more extended storylines with reoccuring characters like how breaking point extends from dwarves and doguns

[rotund gust]

here’s a fun one, lari’s character is rewarded for breaking her morals out of frustration while ava is punished for the same thing

[rotund sphinx]

Lari is just poorly written and I will stand by that

[hushed comet]

just give crazy meta pieces as a reward to compensate for quest length

[rotund gust]

ava’s mental break down and eco-terrorism are treated as a bad thing, while lari’s break down and attempt to kill us is treated as a good thing

[rotund sphinx]

Also Ava broke down because Corkus is colonial British levels of racist, while Lari snaps because she didn’t kill the being of LITERAL DARKNESS for 1000 years and Orphion finally gave up and trusted a murderhobo (the pc) who at least can kill things right

[rotund gust]

i mean not british colonialism, otherwise the avo’s would be farming sugar cane

[regal spire]

I wish there was some kind of noticeable cultural exchange between NPC elf and player that actually showed that Lari’s cultural pacifism is justified

[regal spire]

Yeah, and running casinos hohoho

[rotund sphinx]

I’m sure the Corkians would love to do that

[rotund gust]

i mean, the corkian and avos tensions presumably only started after the factory went haywire

given that even though the humans made the factory they made a key for the avos, seems like a show of good will and cooperation to me

[regal spire]

Thought they were on a rise because of treaties being rewritten, before the consolation of Avo officials, regarding borders

[hushed comet]

realistically they dont really need to do much to RoL other than rewrite lari's character with her failures being due to lack of experience and confidence than unfounded pacifism and it would be a significant improvement

[rotund gust]

oh maybe, idk corkus politics i’m just making assumptions based on the factory keys

[hushed comet]

i.e. imposter syndrome and overcoming it and whatnot

[regal spire]

Corkus seems to be taking a foot with every inch of leniency the avos offer

(actually, wait, I think that’s the same analogy used in the Relos Library)

[rotund gust]

is that in relos library or just a random piece of dialogue?

[regal spire]

I think it’s actually word for word what the book says lmao. Didn’t even notice that

[rotund gust]

wiki time

oh no they dislike each other because the corkians pollute nature with their machines

[regal spire]

Fair enough

[rotund gust]

it does word for word say they take a foot when given an inch, but it doesn’t say that’s why they dislike each other

they dislike each other because the corkians just don’t give a shit about the island itself of the nature they destroy, while the avos do

[regal spire]

Kind of a strange stance to take on defending your home land, imo. Pollution sucks, but I’d imagine that it would make more sense for the Avos to be pissed about losing access to a significant portion of their land.

[rotund gust]

i mean, relos library says the avos granted the corkians their own borders, which steadily grew over the years

[regal spire]

It’s kinda confirmed that the Phoenix prince was originally angry about losing access to their land, too

[regal spire]

That might actually be a corkian rewrite, tbh, since you’d think the underground city would be important to mention

[rotund gust]

so while colonialism is a theme of the corkian avos tensions, relos library seems like paint it more like an industrialization issues

[regal spire]

Seemed to me that, instead of it just being about pollution, Corkus seemed to gather support from a large enough population of Avos through improved medication, infrastructure, and some aspects of convenience, whilst the original Avos patriots fought against the spread of Corkus, taking to the underground city as a way to preserve their heritage better (reserves much?)

[rotund gust]

yeah

yooo i just had a thought. If we ever get an AHC remake (which maybe never happen, and defo not sometime soon) instead of mid theorick fight imagine we have to fight all 4 main twains in their prime. Mael as the healer or something

[regal spire]

There’s a need for a rewrite, whether it’s for the Phoenix prince or for the current Avos tensions against Corkus is entirely debatable

[rotund gust]

there’s four of them they could do a raid together against us 😭

[regal spire]

Lmao, imagine being a raid boss in one of the scenarios

[rotund gust]

plus of the 3 boss fights theorick is the most forgettable and easy

granted normal theorick dungeon boss is harder now so maybe he would just get updated to match

but fighting at the very least theorick and rickeo at the same time would be cool seeing as we fight both now

theoricks freezing you in place then bane’s “slam charge” (idk the spells name the one where he goes in the air and charges down) would be a nasty combo

aledar and tasim stay the same and the corkus section maybe add ava and/or rhay somehow?

[drifting aurora]

i think the weakest AHC sections are olux & rodoroc

[regal spire]

I think AHC would be significantly more cool if it slowly transitioned from being Wynn scenarios to being more and more influenced by Dern. Something like Ba’kal fighting Theorick/Aledar and Tasim could be the first few scenarios. Then, they slowly become more and more related to Dern, such as an Olmic scenario, a TNA scenario, etc, until it ends on a scenario as the eye, or as the dernic beast justifying itself to us, showcasing that dark is in the same level of influence as light, wanting only to serve itself, just as orphion wants for itself

[rotund gust]

olux is serviceable. Rodoroc and Almuj are mid though

[drifting aurora]

olux feels unnecessary. it doesnt add anything we havent already seen previously

[rotund gust]

but i’m just mentioning the boss fights changing now that we have new/expanded characters in wynn like ava and rickeo

[drifting aurora]

aledar and tasim as the finale goes so hard though

[regal spire]

It do, it do. I’d miss that

[rotund gust]

oh it goes so hard. aledar and tasim don’t need changes except more maybe balancing changes to make their boss fight less powercrept

but like story wise and spectacle wise it’s so good

[regal spire]

Too bad Aledar had to go early; gone before his time in Fruma.

[rotund gust]

rodoroc part could be changed to us somehow participating in the dogun war, or entombing doguns ourselves

[rotund gust]

yes but that means we get to focus on tasim, who isn’t a backstabbing bastard (corpe reference :0)

[hushed comet]

yeah they just gotta show up more throughout the game

ignoring the shitty writing in the AJX quests

for the lack of a more sugarcoated word

[rotund gust]

but there’s a lot of things i feel like would show up in AHC now if it were added today. Lari & Dulla, Ava, Siegfried as examples

[hushed comet]

ahc is already long af

[cloud phoenix]

siegfried but evil in ahc 👍

[rotund gust]

Maybe references to the dogun war in the rodoroc sections now that we know what it looks like with the molten heights ult

[hushed comet]

they can remove the olux section ig

[rotund gust]

we are a siegfried 👀

[drifting aurora]

agree. it kind of is just a matter of not having time to backfill right now

[hushed comet]

wynn reborn coming out 20xx

[rotund gust]

also not as boss fights just as different sections to replace some of the mid ones like olux, troms rodoroc and almuj

keep the quest from being like half bak’al

[hushed comet]

https://tenor.com/view/noted-black-guy-thug-shaker-discord-caption-gif-25597417

[rotund gust]

troms gotta be changed there’s almost too much bak’al with troms on top of nesaak, detlas and ragni

his only appearances outside of AHC are some secrets and RoL 5

[regal spire]

I really hope Aledar gets his memories of being a fugitive/criminal back before AJB. It would add a lot more to his sacrifice, because there would be nothing back home for him to even warrant joining the trip to fruma. Adds a lot of nobility to journeying through a land that will have drastic consequences on his new home. Would offer a bit more finality to him, too, even giving him a sort of narrative closure

[rotund gust]

all we do in the troms section is go down, go back up, solve an easy puzzle, and watch mr. armor stand flail his arms to explode things

[hushed comet]

i just generally think AJB/F should be reworked from ground up

also add linton 🔥🔥

[regal spire]

Technically, he’s a skeleton with a hat on. Also, nothing CoW could’ve done could make old troms any more chopped than it is in that cutscene lmao

[rotund gust]

me starting at a bunch of frozen parasites ontop of elphaba because the movement freezes every single time dialogue comes up

the shift dialogue is fine in every single quest except AJB/F it’s so bad there

[hushed comet]

i could chalk it up to silent expanse being pretty old tho

[regal spire]

Why is AJB the quest that gets shift dialogue? Also, same with hollow serenity

Those cutscenes are ruined by shift dialogue. Shifting should be saved for one on one interactions, not shit like chase scenes and narrative moments with music that matches with what’s happening

[rotund gust]

old a journey beyond was so cool, walking into the silent expanse with 3 other heros. Meanwhile now the pace completely freezes every single time one of them says something

[regal spire]

It’s incredibly annoying, and I really hope it gets fixed

Since they can actually have shift-less dialogue; it’s used throughout random quests and cutscenes constantly

[rotund gust]

i get why, some people can’t read that fast, but it’s so frustrating

does a family fractured use shift dialogue?

[regal spire]

If they separate the dialogue better/shorten it, it’d solve the reading issue.

(Imo, if you’re struggling to read AJB—if you’re a native English speaker—you’re cooked)

[regal spire]

Family fractured? That hollow serenity cutscene?

[rotund gust]

nesaak ultimate

[regal spire]

I actually don’t know

Ik they added it to hollow serenity, which pissed me off a ton

[drifting aurora]

i dont like shift-less dialogue because it goes away entirely once it passes

[rotund gust]

ngl i taught 5th grade for a summer, pretty sure some of younger players of wynn won’t be able to read it at all 💀

[drifting aurora]

this is fair though

[rotund gust]

in most cases i think shift dialogue is a good thing. There’s just a couple exceptions like a journey beyond where it’s judy so bad

[regal spire]

It’s fine for a lot of scenarios, but Hollow serenity and AJB are entirely unjustifiable for their implementation in their cutscenes, because they’re tied to specific beats in the music. There’s now these weird moments where there’s a lot of silence, and the intended tension and desperation is completely removed

[rotund gust]

the elphaba liver scene having shift dialogue is a travesty

[drifting aurora]

hollow serenity? not sure id call that "added"

when the quest was made with the new dialogue system

[rotund gust]

hollow serenity seems fine it’s not like the fireball in the scene where what’s her name dies freezes mid air for dialogue

[regal spire]

Garvan’s death was so much better without shifting through it, though, especially because the music intentionally gave it an incredible tone of desperation, fear, etc. The chromatic beats near the last 10 seconds of the song timed PERFECTLY with Garvan screaming for her to stop, and his subsequent death was entirely wrapped up by the last 3 notes

[rotund gust]

oh yeah

[regal spire]

Lmao, bots are getting filtered hooray

[rotund gust]

shift dialogue seems like a necessary evil to me

sometimes it makes things less dramatic, but overall it improves the experience. It’s at its worst when your following an npc walking somewhere and they stop dead to talk though

but those cases are pretty few and far between

[regal spire]

Oh, yeah, it does for a majority of dialogue options. But, since it can be toggled for some cutscenes, it needs to either be reworked for those cutscenes, or entirely removed to keep their intended effect

[rotund gust]

wait i can be toggled for cutscenes

[regal spire]

Because I am forever torn for what happened to AJB and Hollow serenity. I have to intentionally listen to the intended points of the music now to get the intended effect, which no one is going to do for it

[regal spire]

Not player side, quest side, since it’s done for stuff like All Roads to Peace or whatever it’s called

[rotund gust]

agony

[cloud phoenix]

all roads lead to peace was a cool quest ngl

[regal spire]

It was kinda coo

[rotund gust]

i’ve only done it a couple times since i usually over level some of the orc quests by focusing on the tundra quests, but it’s cool

it does feel weird to only humanize the orcs at the very end of the orc plotline though

[regal spire]

They humanized some of the enemies around the area, too, like the flower girls and that wind bandit

Made me feel weird when I immediately went out and started farming them for stalks

[rotund gust]

yeah that parts a bit weird

the whole quest is about making peace with the orcs, and we go and kill the sentient flowers who are being harassed by bandits

[regal spire]

Me humanizing a group of bandits in the Mesa, only to instantly eviscerate them, leaving their decaying corpses for their friends to discover

Wonder if they ever have funerals for em

Might be difficult, considering the level of genocide our character commits

Maybe we slew an entire family, who knows. Got to make family reunions really annoying

[hushed comet]

there gotta be a bandit king like how theres a skyraider queen

[rotund gust]

the rymek bandits don’t seem as united as the sky raiders

[hushed comet]

actually lowkey the different bandits you see around world map could do with more story involvement

like maybe in a hypothetical wynnexcavation rework

[rotund gust]

i don’t think random bandits should be tied to what is essentially the shadow government

[hushed comet]

more alluding to the conflict over the crystals, that shadow government shi dumb af icl

[rotund gust]

i mean there isn’t really a conflict, there’s only the one group going for them. Even the resistance against them is just run by wynnex

gavel exca is even more ingrained and mysterious

[hushed comet]

some other person had like an idea for a rework where the quest spans early till endgame with a whole flowchart n crap

it seemed interesting when i first looked at it but i cba to ctrl f it in discord

[rotund gust]

yeah but then you need to keep up with the quest for that long.
People already hate ToA for being 35 levels long

[hushed comet]

quest is due for a rework methinks and it seems ct sentiment agrees on that

[rotund gust]

fruma excavation quest >_>

Wynnex kinda reminds me of the evil teams in pokemon

[drifting aurora]

purple emerald?

[regal spire]

Ohhh purple~🗣️🔥

[unique jungle]

that being said, shift dialogue NEVER goes away

and brings back old messages
which is much worse

[drifting aurora]

right, but for dialogue, being able to keep it on screen until youre finished reading is better than it vanishing entirely after a set amount of time. obviously shift dialogue has its own problems but that is truly not relevant to the comparison

[unique jungle]

interesting

[rotund gust]

can someone give me a run down on the festival aster lore? it’s the only piece of wynn lore i genuinely know nothing about. I think 3 of them are dead? maybe?

with bonfire on the horizon it would be nice to know

i have an asters call with all 4 emblems but i didn’t really understand what was going on or what they were talking about

[regal spire]

Pretty sure Aster had 3 other brothers who died in the war, and his way of preserving their memories was some kind of weird soul magic that replicated their memories and put them into living vessels.

Don’t know why they’re specifically tied to each festival, but I think the magic used to preserve their memory had some kind of effect to the kind of magic they were affiliated with. Kinda mimics the twain brothers, funnily enough, having fire magic, ice magic, and communing with the spirits

Maybe they were just story telling wizards, or the stories that are affiliated with the brothers were originally Wynn Folklore. Maybe each of the brothers had a specific connection to each story, and Aster found a way to bring back their memories through their connection with these folktales

[drifting aurora]

not entirely correct

[regal spire]

(Idk, tbh, I have zero knowledge on the festivals and just kinda inferred everything I just said from the bits of dialogue I got)

I’d like to learn more, too, tbh, since I can’t really be around for a lot of the festivals. Makes it a bit more difficult to explore them

[drifting aurora]

i haven't been able to give the festivals as much attention as they deserve this past year or two, because there's always so much else to do

[rotund gust]

all i know is some of them are dead and go to the others festivals. some of them have memory problems too?

[regal spire]

I love these characters, though, and their sort of ethereal nature. They’re basically human versions of concepts that are usually personified through stuff like faes, gods/goddesses, or—rarely—religious figure heads.

Honestly, though, it’s funny that we’ve had 4 brothers who can be attributed—whether vaguely or not—to a specific magical prowess twice now: the Twains and the festival brothers.

Obviously, Twain has fire, ice, air, and—lol—ghost, but that same kind of connection is visible with the festival brothers, too.
Fire for bonfire, Ice for Blizzard, Ghost for Spirits, and—more of subjective reach—Air and Heroes.

You could argue air is missing the connection, but I’d argue it’s more symbolically connected, as air is generally an element associated with freedom, and our usual prerequisite idea of freedom involves hope for a better future, which is what a lot of fairy tales, folk stories, and legacies are built around. The air element fits into fighting for freedom/hope for a better future to live with the freedom the Wynn people—and heroes—have been fighting for

[drifting aurora]

thematically, air is the central element throughout the festivals. heroes aligns more with earth

[regal spire]

I meant more for connecting it to a consistent pattern with 4 brothers having magical prowess—the Twains—which are seen having fire, ice, air, and spiritual magic

Air is easy to argue for all of them, because they all represent some kind of hope or freedom. I just believe heroes has the most potential out of all of them, because it’s represented by hope/freedom the best, having so many ties to heroes and telling the people of Wynn to keep fighting for that freedom.

Of course, Earth works very well, too, because to be truly able to fight for something, you must be steadfast and strong enough in your belief for it to even be worth it

[drifting aurora]

the brothers (aster not included) are more or less forced into the roles of these concepts by nature of aster's magic. he can bring his stories to life- so anything that comes of it must be part of a story. his brothers are brought back to life, but are meshed with this festival embodiment concept, which has changed who they are at their core

[regal spire]

That’s really cool, actually, and answers my question completely. With that, it now makes me wonder what they did before, then, and why Aster has such magical potential

[drifting aurora]

this is actually partly explained in the festivals

[regal spire]

(I always miss them 😭)

[drifting aurora]

Aster: I was the oldest of our four. Our parents passed when the others were quite young, so... I had to step up and take care of the family.
Aster: Despite it all, I still think I did quite well with what I had. We lived happily, in our home in the suburbs, for however long we did.
Aster: But... To this day, I still don't know why he did it. He must have felt that he needed to prove himself. That he could do more.
Aster: You'd know him as the Keeper, I think. He'd learned of this powerful altar, hidden away, that could grant him the power he needed to be great.
Aster: He took the others with him, didn't tell me anything. Maybe he thought it would grant power to them all. I don't know.
Aster: I found them missing, and panicked. I found someone willing to cast a spell to help me track them down, and... I followed them.
Aster: They were in the midst of their ritual when I reached them. He was surprised to see me, and- well. He slipped up. The ritual went wrong.
Aster: Before I could say a word, they were gone. And with no-one else to latch on to... Well. Here I am now, I suppose.

[regal spire]

Which one is the keeper, again?

[spring kernel]

Bonfire i believe

[regal spire]

This is genuinely fascinating, I had no idea there was so much to it

[drifting aurora]

there's also some flavor text on the claim to heroism minigame weapons that is relevant

[regal spire]

A mysterious altar, gone without a trace, and asters new founded capabilities. This kind of reminds me of the Mage you find in one of the scroll rooms. Guy practiced “forbidden magic” and was stuck between time and space, incapable of returning

[drifting aurora]

i don't really want to copypaste it all here so just look at the wiki page
https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/The_Claim_to_Heroism#Weapons

[regal spire]

(Way more likely referencing the magic Gawrick or whatever is practicing, but it feels familiar enough to make that connection)

[vapid moon]

lore

[regal spire]

They should make a lore raid that has lots of lore instead of a regular amount

[rotund gust]

hey so uh, for hamartia the shadow

“What, then, was an end so crystal clear? An end expected, an end for three. It could only ever end this way.” is this meant to invoke a hunters calling, or is that coincidental

The Guide, The Envoy, The Seer, The (Bonfire) Keeper, The Traveler, and Aster.

The Envoy Keeper and Traveler are the 3 brothers right? Who tf are the guide and the seer

[dull willow]

not super spoiling myself yet

but holy shit
"It's like you don't have a memory to read..."

[wispy bay]

You have 32 end lore pulls

[regal spire]

The loresmith isn’t repairing my low dura lore builds in between lore rooms

[wispy bay]

The loresmith actually sounds tuff

[regal spire]

Loresmith is a new CT role that retcons and repairs old, broken lore

[azure wren]

idk why the lore of this game has always been so much more interesting to me than any other mmorpg before

[regal spire]

Because it takes inspiration from sources they are more familiar with, as opposed to the same kind of inspiration being taken from similarly passionate people, but from sources they have no real experience/connection to

Its written from a desire to communicate their passion, rather than it being to get the game out/make money

That’ll naturally just attract more people to your niche, just like how passionate people are just generally more attractive

[azure wren]

couldn’t have said it better myself

[regal spire]

TNA knows it’s an anomaly, is that right? (It knows that something is “wrong” with it)

[dim plover]

“If I’m an Olm’s skeleton why am like ten times larger than them”

[haughty birch]

Aster shows up and makes his brothers game end themselves into oblivion out of the sheer surprise.

[dim plover]

game end themselves into what

[haughty birch]

https://tenor.com/view/oblivion-npc-remastered-oblivion-remastered-elder-gif-11147750444865797495

[dim plover]

Omg???

[half hound]

Oblivion is a dagger 😭

[regal spire]

Nullification posts? Without mentioning that the new trickster rework offers a 30% flat damage boost to your elemental damage (except air lol) that only needs to be proc’d through its intended gameplay loop?

[unique jungle]

LMAO

[regal spire]

Nulli trickster offers a new way for players to play tankier playstyles and still get good dps

[dim plover]

I’m too busy making my own Trickster to focus on new Trickster

[regal spire]

But new trickster is amazing

[dim plover]

All I care about is that they are thankfully nothing alike and I didn’t accidentally copy Wynncraft again

[dim plover]

Elaborate

(In another channel)

[regal spire]

Uno moment

[warm flicker]

out of all the scenarios in AHC, i enjoyed the Corkus one the most. Despite us being the instigator of an island-wide war, the fact we had to do so much to get the Corkians and Avos to distrust one another to actually fight honestly gave me hope. Props to the Avos chieftan and Maxie for not giving into tribalism and keeping the peace

[regal spire]

Which channel

[dim plover]

#🌎wynncraft probably

Or #1302601977636585515

I guess this isn’t a rework
#🌎wynncraft or #1265241987771006976 then

[regal spire]

Let’s do Wynncraft

[hybrid gazelle]

Tbh after rol rewrite I kinda wanna do corkus at some point

Like entire corkus quest line from the ground up

Like completely restructure corkus story because I think current one we have kinda bad

[wispy bay]

corkus electromage class when

[kind lily]

reserved to maxie

[hybrid gazelle]

I think having engineer class could be intresting

if we ever get a new class
Like have mech suit/mech/ or sentry

like moze from Borderland 3

lke your archetype design by how you design your companion

either as stand alone mech or mech suit or sentry that can be place more than once

[wanton stream]

Has anyone ever made a full lore doc for Wynn craft

[kind lily]

The person who id know might be closest to thats @hybrid gazelle

[regal spire]

Have we already forgotten Trapinch

[sinful terrace]

The pokemon?

[regal spire]

The lore enthusiast

[sinful terrace]

Maybe, we should ask it.

[regal spire]

Seems they’re not in the server anymore

Their dogunese concept was dope, at least.

[solid fable]

Totally agree! My favorite part of ahc corkus is how it displays the culmination of Maxie's core values we see in envoy and tff.
Loved seeing him act at his absolute most competent best by delaying the civil war as much as he did

[dim plover]

Not sure why he decided to jump into the arena virtually defenceless after his two best mechs got eviscerated though

…or why he stayed behind when he summoned his mechs to distract us for the sole purpose of him rushing back to the warsite

[hybrid gazelle]

that lore doc is my own take of wynncraft universe

so if you okay with like literally just my attempt of updating everything and make everything more cohensive yeah sure

but it never should be treat as canon full lore document

[wanton stream]

Someone should probably make a lore doc so then some other people can learn about the lore

[dim plover]

Trashie has their own very cool spin on Wynncraft yeah

It’s like a more worldbuildish-complex version of Wynncraft content

Also has a really specific aesthetic that I’m not exactly sure what to call

[kind lily]

🥀 probs the closest thing we got so surely someone can branch off it…eventually

[lofty glade]

Fruma does not exist. In fact, we were expelled from behind those very mountains that fence the world. Fruma is just a hint that you were expelled from somewhere where you will never get to again, and all evidence of Fruma's existence is a fake, just to confuse those who are trying to get to the truth.
-# sorry, just my schizotheory

[hybrid gazelle]

the thing about wynncraft lore is that it's world building with many block that build up indivudal story
trying to put it in digestible format is rather difficult espically when specific info outdated in the game

asking for wynncraft lore is like similar to asking the lore of Warahmmr 40K or Runeterra

Like there is not really specific you can draw to, since again it's entire world that exist on its own

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xEVC2cMm4xJ4npoKisJDtu2AdMjR7ihy7yID8gkhNjs/edit?usp=sharing

you are welcome to read it since I say it try to fit the spirit of the canon wynncraft but yeah should not take everything in here as 100% truth

espically the timeline being change due to wynncraft cnaon timeline being massive piece of shit

also the lore sitll flaw because some character like olms or Hashr literally dont have section of their own mostly because there is no active olmic faction LOL

maybe someday I will rewrite some stuff in regard of sand kingdom

[unique jungle]

warhammer 40k lore isnt that crazy

its big and expansive and had a lot sure but

[hybrid gazelle]

I am saying that trying to condense all Warahmmer 40K lore in digestible manner is hard becuase you have to consider like War of heaven, Horus Heresy, Indomition Crusade or whatever whic h these thing branching off and introduce different concept in the world

is not that the lore of these media are crazy it just hard to explain
it like trying to tell the history of Earth in casual manner

liek how do you transition from like people hunting mammoth to fucking world war 2

Like you really can't

like use that logic applying to completely different world with its own rule

[unique jungle]

you can tell the history of earth it just takes a while

i mean isnt that the entire point of the one hit video (you know the one)

[hybrid gazelle]

okay then yeah that fair enough

[rain saffron]

-# 👀👀👀

[pallid rain]

who's is the mysterious leader in Hollow Serenity?

[regal spire]

As of now, nobody knows

Just a villager, ig, prolly has some ties to the old monarchy or something

[rotund gust]

we really don’t much about the dark cult. most in game info about them is intentionally censored like the chapter mentioning dark magic in llevigar library

[hybrid gazelle]

another concept art but now entirely dedicated to the new quest added to the ROL questline, Pest Control

Olliphiests would be present in the quest where after dealing with parasite spawns that emerge by the Taproot's activity with Lari, the player would have encounter an olliphiest going berserk and threaten people of Geliboard. However due to disobeying Lari's suggestion to keep it stall until her arrival, player would accidentally kill the creature and later find out the parasite to be the cause of its rampage.

[rotund gust]

chat what do we think the collosi were built for?

[lean ether]

the lols

[wispy bay]

defend against the big grook in detlas

[rotund gust]

truee

[shell maple]

https://tenor.com/view/did-unc-snap-gif-6586152468706719040

[warm flicker]

was bored so i went through all of detlas trying to find the population detlas can reasonbly hold and heres what i found:

• there are 16 beds in all the houses and shops in Detlas
• there are 10 beds in inns for travelers
• despite the barracks, there is no bedding for any military
• the Suburbs have 7 beds
  Detlas by itself therefore can house 16 permanent residents (23 including the suburbs) and 10 travelers/inn-goers

[tame sundial]

tbf they could sleep on the ground

[regal spire]

Saw one of em in the fountain; prolly where they bathe 😭

[warm flicker]

there is one (1) intact bed in the ancient detlas ruins, thats where the rest of the citizens sleep

[tame sundial]

they sleep in the bank system (if it can store billions of emerald blocks, it can store people)

[warm flicker]

theres an inn in detlas that has ONE BED, whos it for, the owner? a very special traveler??

[rotund gust]

the military in detlas sleep on the wall

[warm flicker]

oh i completely forgot about the bed on the airship above detlas

wait i completely got the barracks wrong, the bunks are so simple i mistook them for table decoration

ok so assuming the green carpet on the elevated bits is indeed supposed to be simple bunks, the barracks can house 15 soldiers

ok so assuming every soldier in Detlas is an outsider and doesnt have a house in the city, Detlas can house 38 people and 10 travelers

[rotund gust]

i mean, people could share beds

school trip hotel room type shit

there could be 3 or more people in the same bed if the detlas citizens are polyamorous

[warm flicker]

no u may be onto something, some beds are bigger than others, if theyre meant for 2 people each, that means Detlas and its suburbs can house 41 people, 15 soldiers, and 14 travelers

a total of 55 people living in a fantasy game city is actually quite reasonable now that i think about it

[rotund gust]

i mean it’s still rather low for the assumedly trade capital of the province

like if that was the population of ternaves or nesaak 55 would be adequate

[lean ether]

they dont have to sleep they just log out

[warm flicker]

lol i thought originally detlas could house 23 people so 55 is a big upgrade

[rotund gust]

barely

[warm flicker]

so true

[warm flicker]

to be fair in this case detlas has road connections to a lot of settlements and people move to and from detlas, so the viable population of detlas would be in the hundreds or so

[lean ether]

definitely not how many people live in detlas like irl

I at least have always been of the assumption that wynn's game world is supposed to just be a game represantation of the "real" wynn

and is aggressively scaled down for the purposes of video game

even though wynncraft doesn't exist beyond the game it's implied like an odd few times that it's bigger than the in game representation

[rotund gust]

same, like the provinces are really small gameplay wise it’s not realistic to be able to walk from one end of a province to another in under an hour in like any country

[lean ether]

first thing my mind wanders to is that the ahms ult says "thousands lost their lives" which cannot have been the majority of the population (prolly) which assumes at least 10-20 thousand people lived in ahms prior to the shattering

which obviously it couldn't have been this many in the game-sized map

and also like selvut once said cotl is the "size of a european country" afaik but whether that's slovenia or sweden Idk

I'd assume sweden because it's way cooler for cotl to be this big

[warm flicker]

i remember a while ago i mentioned that the entire wynn map was the size of slovenia so maybe thats what ur thinking?

[lean ether]

no slovenia is just the first smaller country that came to my mind to make the comparison

in my headcanon "true" scaling of wynn I put the distance between Ragni and Detlas as the same as that between Paris and Vienna so around 1000km

[regal spire]

I wish it was that much of a distance, tbh

But, that’s talking from my years of experience, not from any fundamental gameplay expectations. Just want more world

[quartz mist]

While I dont remember that specific statement you can assume that in lore terms the game map is shrunk for player convenience

[lean ether]

once I calculated the latitutes for all the major cities based on this scaling to use in the Caelum mod but it doesn't work on the versions all the other mods work on 😔

[lean ether]

I am not surprised I barely remembered it myself and it must've been years back if I haven't got some facts wrong

[regal spire]

I’ve always wondered how Wynn would go about making the map more expansive, because it desperately needs some space

It was easier to justify when the world was more empty, but there’s a ton of interesting elements and captivating landmarks now. Just wish I had a bit more room to really take it all in

(The new fruman gates has me so genuinely excited, because they look so expansive)

[lean ether]

minecraft fundamentally sucks at making big maps because you're forced to do everything by the block

[regal spire]

I hate Minecraft’s limitations, but the creative potential outweighs this, fortunately

[lean ether]

you don't have the concept of "assets" like in other games where you put down a ground asset, river asset, mountain asset, tree asset and they all can have any size you want

[rotund gust]

i feel like corkus would probably be the easiest to “scale” out of the places in wynn since it isn’t just a square

[lean ether]

even with worldpainter it doesn't become that

[rotund gust]

unless we say wynn and gavel the size of specific US states that are also squares

wynn is colorado

[lean ether]

wynn is colorado

[regal spire]

The ocean is also a location that needs another 1000 blocks worth of space between locations tbh. Hope they add a sort of Wind Waker fog to an open section of the map, just to give the illusion of more ocean

[rotund gust]

is it even possible to give the overworld dimension fog/recolor the nether fog to be like blue or white for that effect?

[lean ether]

I like chunk caching nad LODs in wynn until I get to the ocean and I can see the maro peaks from nemract

[regal spire]

I actually don’t know ANYTHING about Minecraft’s limitation for fog effects and shaders, and I too would love to know if Wynn can simulate biome specific ambience effects wherever they want

Ohh CT~🗣️🔥

[rotund gust]

here’s a semi-related question, do you think they’ll make fruma border an up to now unknown province so that they have room to make more content expansions after dern?

bloomi?

unless the vision for wynn just straight ends after fruma and dern (and realm of war i guess)

[regal spire]

My best assumption for Fruma would be that we are sent to it to warn both the province of Wynn and Fruma of the potential for the darkness beyond SE to infiltrate into the world. Gavel—NoL wise—will see its decay fade, but Wynn and—potentially—fruma are at the wim of Dern, especially with Wynn being so close to the main darkness portal.

I’d imagine that, once we warn the sovereigns, we’d likely be given the Ba Sing Se treatment, tbh

[rotund gust]

no that’s not what i meant

[regal spire]

I’d imagine, before Dern, the ocean would be given its own world, and after Dern, maybe the cosmos

[rotund gust]

not like predictions for fruma itself. but like do you think fruma will border a whole new province that we’ve never heard about before now?

so that of the wynn team wants to keep expanding after fruma and dern there’s room to do so?

[regal spire]

If they intend to have Fruma go further into end game, leaving Dern as a final final area at some level 200, I could definitely see them developing more provinces

There’s more to the Wynn world than what is shown, so I’d imagine we’d get opportunities to go there, first. Maybe an entire end game rebalance of level 125-130 now being SE, with Fruma at 130-150, and then Dern 150-200, etc

[rotund gust]

i mean fruma is only going to go up to 120. Dern will probably be a bit bigger, maybe 150? i struggle to see dern pushing to 200

maybe realm of war before or after dern to make up the difference to 200

[regal spire]

That could work, too

[rotund gust]

still though is that the endgame? only 200. Maybe they add mention to fruma having another border besides the one with wynn that we’ve never heard about since… well if we can’t get info out of fruma how are we gonna get info from their neighbors.

what happens when wynn is “finished”

[regal spire]

I’d imagine that they’d want to focus on what they’ve established, first, before alluding to another province neighboring fruma. The cosmos, the ocean, etc all could definitely work to be fruma followers

[rotund gust]

idk if the cosmos will ever get anything

[regal spire]

Dern being an end would be the best case scenario for what’s developed, but the realm of war could also follow Dern, offering a finality to everything

[rotund gust]

wynncraft in space seems like a bit too much of a tonal shift.

[regal spire]

We’ve got the void, which is basically what that would be. Just have there be a looming cosmic threat falling into the world of Wynn

Another Major World event tied to a cosmic exploration quest line

[rotund gust]

the void is more analogous to an astral plane then to space though

[regal spire]

It definitely takes inspiration from both concepts

[rotund gust]

actually i guess fruma could have a portal aswell to its own realm

so that also opens up space if fruma’s “realm” isn’t small and useless like the realm of light

[regal spire]

Haven’t a clue how they’d tie the cosmos’ to fruma, beyond the magical potential behind the meteors, but I’d like to see it done, if they’ve got an idea for it

[rotund gust]

(it’s gonna be realm of order, peace or magic trust trust)

[regal spire]

Realm of the Mad God

[rotund gust]

sohso is in fruma

fruma excavation or a ??? sequel for the last of the brothers

[regal spire]

I’m gonna assume that Sohso probably forgot his entire identity and believes he’s a human now

[warm flicker]

realms of light, dark, chaos, and order
Dern would be dark + order
SE would be dark + chaos
Light Realm would be light + order
Light Forest would be light + chaos

[rotund gust]

while that does fit, wynn is the realm of war, not chaos (i mean the two are similar concepts but it’s explicitly called war in RoL 4)

the creatures from war do only want to cause chaos, but their still from war

still order is probably the safest bet for fruma’s realm. Magic & peace are my backup theories thougg

fruma could also just not have a realm like corkus or the ocean

or the opposite and if they run out of places to give content before dern they could give corkus and the ocean realms

realm of water and realm of like… actually corkus fits air, earth and thunder idk

[dim plover]

I mean, there’s still outer space

[rotund gust]

space just feels like a weird concept. I know we go to the moon, but no where we know so far except the moon itself has rocket technology

[dim plover]

No I mean like

Stuff relating to space
Because those things aren’t connected to the war of the realms plot

[pearl osprey]

The weave

[dim plover]

Like the four meteor brothers, Wybels, whatever is going on with the Wocs

[rotund gust]

yeah meteors, wybels, the two excavation plotlines, etc

[dim plover]

Space is something the Guardian of the Forest does explicitly separate from the realms

[rotund gust]

the weave existing is exactly the reason i think fruma being realm of magic could happen

[dim plover]

The realms are like on another level than space but space still has story potential

[dim plover]

Wait what’s this again

[dim plover]

Aren’t all the realms magic

[pearl osprey]

No idea. Like the universe or something, it’s only ever mentioned in fantasia’s lore

[rotund gust]

i mean like.. yes?

[pearl osprey]

Perhaps it is the realm of magic realms

[rotund gust]

but like their more embodiments of elements or concepts then types of magic in an of them selves

[dim plover]

Oh huh

[rotund gust]

magic is just a way to channel the elements

[dim plover]

Realms of the five elements sound cool but I’m not sure how they can connect to the greater story, if at all

Would they also have their own realm beasts?

[pearl osprey]

This lore is like the opposite of horrors beyond my comprehension

[rotund gust]

the weave is a thing in d&d too i recommend looking it up

[pearl osprey]

Joys beyond my comprehension

[dim plover]

Whenever I see this item I just think of Geronimo Stilton’s Kingdom of Fantasy

If I remember their kingdom is literally just called Fantasia

Brings back memories

[rotund gust]

given the fantasia desc their probably similar

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Weave

[static mortar]

i love how basically only 5~ people talk here

it's like a wynn lore group chat of close friends

[unique hill]

oh guild community

[rotund gust]

eh more like 10 but still

[clever quartz]

elementary school nostalgia

[regal spire]

Only 5-10 people actually care enough about anything relating to the Wynn lore 😭

(Would love more people to join in; theories were so prevalent 4-5 years ago)

[spring kernel]

The lore is neat

Fruma will hopefully bring more life to this chat

[bleak violet]

do wanna see when and where we're telling tasim about aledar

[cloud phoenix]

i would talk here more but i have a bad habit of ghosting

[dim plover]

||AT_Questions has a fanmade counterpart so what if lore_discus-||

[regal spire]

I just thought about how cool it would be if Wynn specifically had an update that offered a team of 5-10 people to experience a sort of “kingdom battles” simulator, with you needing to spread around set locations, follow beacons like LR’s to specific cities, and defend hordes of Ba’kal’s army. Every 10 or so challenges would require a significant portion of your team at one location, needing you to do stuff like upgrade city defenses and summon/upgrade aide from the city’s military to keep it defendable when no one is there, all coming together to fight off Ba’kal, Charon, etc at the borders of the chosen city.

[rotund gust]

i mean there’s probably more but only some of us actually use discord

[regal spire]

We keep seeing so much of the army being discussed and deployed, but it’d be so fun to join in on the efforts more, especially if it were something relating to defending past Wynn, where Ba’kal’s influence was strongest

[regal spire]

There definitely is, since the forums has plenty

(Well, did)

[rotund gust]

wynncord main is a hellish place i wouldn’t wanna be here either

tumblr has a few aswell, although only a handful

[rotund gust]

so… wynncraft but tower defense?

i could see that using festival minigame mechanics

wynncraft mann vs machine wynn vs. corruption

in general i think a pve festival mini game would be fun (sadly it seems we’re stuck with the 3 good ones and claim to heroism for the time being)

jk claim to heroism is decent too

[regal spire]

Kind of, but not quite, because it’d be time based, and require you to be near the actual location for it to activate. However, a festival mini game like this would be so friggen fun

Battle for the Province or something

[rotund gust]

tbh i don’t think we need more festival mini games though. Just look at the player count for all of them except banish the beyond at the end of each festival

imagine how bad it would be if they weren’t limited time rare

[regal spire]

A byproduct of its not really fitting the Wynn niche, despite them being amazing. I play em at least 10 times per festival, and enjoy it every time, so it’d be a net gain for me

A mini game that offers something more tied to the Wynn experience—builds and all—would be really nice. Maybe, it’d be able to actually pull players consistently

[rotund gust]

i would play some of them more but i’m not a huge fan of the festival minigame combat. it’s at its worst in claim to heroism

[regal spire]

BftB feels the worst to me, personally, since I at least have health in CtH

[rotund gust]

blizzard brawl is fun because of how varied the move sets are, but at the end of the day it’s just a hero shooter. Battle for the bonfire is alright, but feels like a hypixel minigame. The combat also feels kinda bad. Claim to heroism takes the mid combat from BftB and turns it up to eleven

[regal spire]

The only mini game I never got to experience…

[rotund gust]

I’ve never got the chance to play Banish the Beyond, but isn’t it just a better dead by daylight?

[regal spire]

I heard the soundtrack randomly this year, and I’m absolutely furious that I chose work and money over Wynn

[rotund gust]

blizzard brawl is fun, but if one team starts winning it’s really hard to make a comeback

[regal spire]

Honestly, though, Wynn has an incredible set of mini games. They all work really well, and the general aesthetic of Wynn offers a kind of experience that just doesn’t work in other settings

[regal spire]

That’s cause they never had me

[rotund gust]

yeah i think their good too. but if any could use a shake up its CtH and BftB. The other two have decent player counts throughout their festivals

[regal spire]

I’m also a huge fan of them repurposing Thomas for the mini game, since Craftmas chaos—also Macabre—was my favorite quest

Ik it was lame, and didn’t make any sense, and was super outdated, but it’s all I really had left of early years Wynn 😭

[rotund gust]

i like the repurposing of a bunch of npc’s as classes for blizzard brawl

[regal spire]

(I’m floored they just covered up the Macabre quest for level 21)

[rotund gust]

wait which was was macabre

[regal spire]

The hallowynn mask

[rotund gust]

they’ve removed lots of quests i mix them up

[regal spire]

Haunted mask goes into a cave, and they just up and cover the whole damn cave like it never mattered 😭

At least repurpose it for a cool cave 🙁

[rotund gust]

it’s weird that they removed that and a bunch of other holiday quests, then kept meaningful holiday

[regal spire]

Meaningful holiday, my beloathed

[rotund gust]

i get removing the holiday themed quests, but why keep meaningful holiday?

[regal spire]

I haven’t actually done it in years; might be worth to revisit before it gets canned

[regal spire]

So Santa doesn’t just kinda have an island in the middle of the ocean for no reason

I don’t think Santa is gonna stay much longer, tbh

(All whimsy. Gone.)

[rotund gust]

i kinda miss craftsmas chaos

[regal spire]

(Also, Grian being against taking inspiration from biblical/religious literature, but goes and okay’s Saint Nick)

Like, not even changing his name, he’s just straight up the known Santa Claus from Lapland lmao

[rotund gust]

idk i don’t see the reason behind being against biblical or religious references. one of wynns fairy obvious inspirations is lord of the rings, which has a bunch of christian imagery itself

[regal spire]

It’s a stupid choice, creatively, to refuse inspiration from a source because you “don’t like it”, and it’s especially silly when you are creating any kind of medieval world with GODS and WORSHIP and any kind of APPLICABLE FAITH (😭)

[quartz mist]

can confirm I did not know about that when I wrote this

[rotund gust]

oh… well then

so then we definitely have no clue what the weave is 😭

[quartz mist]

it sprung off ideas i had fron dm dokuro's "the confusion of being human" track

mostly the title and soundscape created by the song rather than the conversation within it though

[rotund gust]

neat

[quartz mist]

I can confirm that I have concrete ideas about what the Weave is, but the only thing I'll say in immediacy is that Weirds are related to it in some way.

[rotund gust]

yeah saying that is the inspiration and then reading fantasia’s lore that makes total sense

[rotund gust]

so it’s cosmic magic 👀👀👀 or atleast adjacent to it. lore

peak

[quartz mist]

like I said, that's all I'll say for now.

[rotund gust]

smh, we gotta wait for the inevitable Sohso stuff in fruma

[quartz mist]

...I should put the big Weird dissertation i wrote ingame somehow, and distill it a bit more

that whole thing was written off the cuff and I was coming up with everything as I went. not a lot needs to be cleaned up except for the prose, since it was one of those "athena emerging fully formed from zeus' head" type moments

that whole deal was me just putting pen to paper and getting the thoughts down before I forgot, so it's disorganized and redundant in a few spots

[rotund gust]

if fruma gets meteors for sohso easy secret discovery with weird lore (or just dump on the gavel excavation secret but that sounds boring)

[rotund gust]

i mean, just format it as some random scientists mad ravings and you can post as is 🤷‍♂️

[quartz mist]

yeah, I just want to clean it up and make it a little more presentable

[rotund gust]

replace whatever the hell cosmic crystals is with that

[quartz mist]

cosmic crystals is "hey, crystals exist"

[rotund gust]

light mushrooms is “hey, mushrooms exist”

[quartz mist]

waste of a discovery

[rotund gust]

i mean, cosmic crystals isn’t as bad since the canyon secrets in general aren’t horribly exciting compared to the other gavel secrets. but replacing it with something about weirds would be cool, especially given how prevalent they are in gavel with almost no lore right now

[dim plover]

Grian being against taking inspiration from biblical/religious literature
Wait what

[regal spire]

Strange quote from Grian that suggested that he doesn’t like taking inspiration from religious literature because of the controversial connotation it can hold

[dim plover]

: (

[regal spire]

Bad idea for fantasy worlds, fine for tutorial guides

[dim plover]

(I am going to be based and go all in with biblical stuff)

[regal spire]

Nothing better, dude, revelations is a HOOT

[dim plover]

(I’m already doing that with future planned content)

Anyways uh sorry for breaking the conversation lemme insert myself in it instead

[dim plover]

Weird being capitalized reminds me of the Gavel Weirds

[rotund gust]

not taking inspiration for biblical stuff, but then some of the 2.1 RoL creatures are very “biblically accurate angel” and there’s the light forest secret that hints at the light religion we barely hear anything about other than it being the justification for why elder prometheus opens the oortals

[regal spire]

You’re awesome, Poiple, do whatever you want

[dim plover]

I want to learn more about the Weird for no particular reasons

[rotund gust]

i think it’s cause they are talking about the Weirds from gavel…

[dim plover]

||(Lying)||

[regal spire]

Weirds are weird

[dim plover]

I read that sentence a few times and it didn’t seem like it

Maybe I’m just stupid

[rotund gust]

read the previous few sentences

[rotund gust]

^

[dim plover]

Okay I just googled what dissertation is yeah I got it

[rotund gust]

replace cosmic crystals with funny lore dump on weirds

then the only remaining bad secret outside of the entire llevigar plains is light mushrooms

[dim plover]

I think Selvut’s referring to this

[quartz mist]

I should hope it does since that's what I was referring to

[dim plover]

The uh
Dissertation

Yeah that writeup is very

a lot

[regal spire]

Weirds feel like what microbes and bacteria are, in a weird——way

Just these lil creatures that self replicate from a specific source

[dim plover]

I occasionally come back to read this because it’s really difficult to comprehend/ understand sometimes, so I tend to forget

[regal spire]

In this case, Magic or “feelings”

[rotund gust]

looks like things went down a weird route

[dim plover]

But like, in a good way
I can tell it’s really well-written

[regal spire]

He’s in some king of snowgraved

[dim plover]

Okay well it’s not a narrative
I meant the text isn’t gibberish, there’s clearly meaning in it

[dim plover]

Anyways brb

[rotund gust]

it does read like some random academic paper

[regal spire]

I’d imagine there would be bits of bacteria attracted to the creation of magical fountains/intense feelings and concepts. If that’s what weirds are, just some mold like conglomerate of microscopic organisms manifesting something greater from the source, that’s awesome

[rotund gust]

is Wyrd just the Weave before it got a good name

[regal spire]

Haven’t read that whole Selvut message, though, gotta give it a read

[rotund gust]

but yeah that would be cool to work in game somehow, they should do that

[dim plover]

So, from what I can understand, put in simple terms:

1. Weirds are entities that could form when something uses particularly strong magic
2. That something cannot be the original source of the magic
3. uh

Okay I’m halfway reading through this and I appear to have misunderstood the genesis part

Does that imply that Weirds don’t have a beginning? Has anyone seen a Weird form before?

Or does the genesis specifically refer to a Weird’s consciousness alone

[regal spire]

I just thought it was like how mold isn’t really mold in nature, just a natural accumulation of fungus and bacteria. But, you can find it around basically everything, and it can be nurtured through the right environmental niche. (In this case, it’s outsourced magic/concepts, instead of a moldy piece of bread)

[rotund gust]

them talking about semi-omniscience and selv saying weirds have something to do with the weave, maybe they all form from one source which is omniscient?

one source assumedly being the Weave (unless the weave is just wyrd under a different name)

[dim plover]

I will attempt to understand Weirds first before putting a weave into the equation

[regal spire]

Like, I’m imaging just giving a single bacteria a unique brain, rather than the instinctual intuition they’re spawned with, and then applying that concept to every single piece of bacteria attached to the mold, and there’s weirds

[dim plover]

Because this is boggling

I have no idea what this means

[regal spire]

Honestly, it’s boggling because it’s written to be. The research team isn’t even sure if anything they’re saying is entirely correct, and is still incredibly unsure on everything

[rotund gust]

somehow i’m more confused about weirds than before

[dim plover]

I don’t even know what said research team is talking about

[rotund gust]

and i don’t know if that’s by design

[quartz mist]

worth noting, Weird and Wyrd are pronounced the same!

[rotund gust]

i thought weirds were just funky cosmic magic guys

[dim plover]

“That Weirds are the way in which forces and magic shall taste of itself and feed back”
Like what on earth does this mean

Is my brain’s tendency to attempt to interpret things literally an inhibitor into understanding Weird

Am I supposed to take the feeding literally?

Taste itself? Taste???

[rotund gust]

time to incorporate niche selv essay into my belief system

[dim plover]

How are these two paragraphs even related in the slightest

How do they connect