📚lore_discussion

[sinful terrace]

What im saying is that i think the parasite is literally the only darkness creature that has entered wynn. And the rest is just. From the parasite

[dim plover]

Hi back what did I miss

[vestal rivet]

I don't think the parasite has physically gone to Wynn province
unless you mean the physical plane or whatever the lore calls the "real world" that isn't Dern or RoL

[dim plover]

Does the game not mention “Realm of Dern” or smth sometimes

I must have missed it

[rotund gust]

the RoL 4 cutscene showing the basic’s of the war of realms and dern being mentioned in the Llevigar secret library (even if it is completely destroyed) is what keeps me from believing dern is just a synonym for the realm of darkness. it’s just odd that they would put so much effort into making it a mystery if fruma is the only option for realm of darkness

[vestal rivet]

I think it's pretty accepted that Dern = Realm of Dark

[dim plover]

We live on the Physical Plane yeah

The in-game Realms, on the other hand, are in the Plane of Influence

[rotund gust]

Darkness js known for conquering things like the silent expanse or void. It’s not out of the question that Dern used to be a normal province but got colonized by its beast and subsumed into the realm of dark. It would explain why dern is such a weird subject throughout all the lore dumps we get on provinces and the war of realms

in my mind it’s either that, or Fruma is darkness’s plane of influence, but that feels almost too easy for how much of a mystery it’s set up to be

[vestal rivet]

so you saying that:
Dern is a physical place
Realm of Dark or RoD just invaded Dern so hard that the terms have become synonymous

[rotund gust]

basically

would explain why dern is even in the llevigar secret library while the realm of light isn’t

[vestal rivet]

well we don't read every book in the library

[rotund gust]

but also why the darkness portal is referred to as the portal to dern

and why the rol 4 realm breakdown has the darkness realm of influence as garble text, it doesn’t even exist as its own thing anymore

[vestal rivet]

that I think is the one thing against your idea, and the main tie that most people (including me) use to tie Dern and the RoD as the same place just with dif names

[dim plover]

Wait you are actually cooking with this theory

Put it on the forums or smth asap

[vestal rivet]

where's trashie when you need him
he's like the unofficial lore scholar for wynn

[rotund gust]

i feel like it already was i feel like i heard this somewhere before. I’ve genuinely thought this was just a common theory up until now

[vestal rivet]

nope never heard of that until now

[rotund gust]

weird, i know i heard it from somewhere

[dim plover]

Nah everyone else just accepted that Dern’s Realm of Darkness

[rotund gust]

fair enough, i guess in my theory it is just not in the commonly accepted way

[dim plover]

Anyways if you want to learn Wynncraft cosmography just ask me

I’m an expert

That and Madeline but she’s not here

[rotund gust]

also if dern were straight up ripped from our reality and placed in the realm of darkness that would help explain greg and why the silent expanse has connections to the void. It whole thing is tearing holes in reality

[dim plover]

The entirety of Wynncraft is basically two planes

[rotund gust]

with the void in between i guess

[dim plover]

Yeah your theory has legs

[rotund gust]

the void is weird i always saw it as an analog to the astral plane in d&d

[dim plover]

Yeah

[dim plover]

I don’t play d&d but Wynncraft’s void is basically defined as nothing

Lack of everything

No matter, no space, no direction, time, laws of physics, reality, nothing

[vestal rivet]

wait isn't mineblast madeline?

[dim plover]

Just absolutely nothing

[rotund gust]

the astral plane is basically just in between space between planes of existence where scraps of destroyed planes exist. if you keep traveling in the astral plane eventually you find elder gods n shit

[dim plover]

Huh?

[vestal rivet]

same person I thought

[dim plover]

Madeline (Deusphage) is a CT

[vestal rivet]

oh

[rotund gust]

also another thing. RoL IV outright states there are more than 3 realms, just that only 3 matter in the war of realms. Given that fruma is incredibly closed off in the physical plane it would make sense that it’s realm, whatever it is, also isn’t involved with the others in their battles

[vestal rivet]

I think mineblast used to use Madeline as a name and it through me off

[dim plover]

Does Fruma even have a Realm

And if it did, what would that Realm’s relation be to the other three

[rotund gust]

rol 4 confirms something exists as darkness’s influence plane, just not what. And darkness being a conquest focused force while its mirror is closed off to everything else wouldn’t make sense

[dim plover]

Huh?

[rotund gust]

something exists as the darkness realm of influence

[dim plover]

You mean this?

[rotund gust]

yeah

[dim plover]

That’s

The Silent Expanse

The Light Portal is in Gavel
The Corruption Portal is in Wynn
The Dark Portal is in the Silent Expanse

[rotund gust]

no? Silent expanse is still part of wynn. It only becomes dark after the olm are kicked out

[dim plover]

Like, we can literally goto all three portals and look at them

[dim plover]

Silent Expanse is not Wynn territory like 0.2 people in Wynn even know that valley exists

Also like I said, the portal’s literally right there behind EO

[rotund gust]

silent expanse also has a giant hole to the void behind that which neither other portal has

it could’ve just gotten moved there

[dim plover]

Yeah because TNA

[rotund gust]

or the silent expanse used to be a border with dern, which got ripped from reality, hence the void being there

[dim plover]

TNA has been ripping chunks of reality out of the Physical Plane, Void Valley’s currently undergoing whatever happened to the portal area

[rotund gust]

also, it’s not great evidence, but wynn and gavel are both massive and disconnected by oceans, while silent expanse is really tiny and connected to wynn. It’s not great but it doesn’t follow the patterns of other realms

i don’t think the garble text has to be the silent expanse, it’s definitely a valid interpretation of it though

[dim plover]

Anyways uh
Yeah this has been confirmed to be SE by the CT lol, they thought it was obvious enough to clarify it to us

(Unless you don’t take out-of-game CT word as canon idk)

The letter count even fits Silent Expanse, in that case

[rotund gust]

silent expanse being derns realm of influence just seems kinda lame. especially given we know it was normal before the portals opened

[dim plover]

Silent Expanse isn’t a realm

[rotund gust]

you know what i mean. Silent expanse being gavel and wynns equivalent in the war of realms

[dim plover]

Yeah

Gavel, Wynn and Silent Expanse have their portals spreading their influence outwards

[rotund gust]

there’s so much reality tearing and weird obfuscating that the silent expanse being darkness’s physical plane is just such a boring answer

[dim plover]

The Silent Expanse is under dark influence, as is massive parts of Wynn with corruption’s influence

[rotund gust]

and with dern being so weirdly referred to alongside other provinces while the realm of light isn’t just makes it too odd

[dim plover]

What

[rotund gust]

(llevigar secret library)

[dim plover]

(Ok to be fair Dern’s mentioned alongside like, the only three provinces we know of)

(+Corkus)

Because it’s one of the five major regions of the game (excluding the ocean’s water body)

[rotund gust]

true, but it is mentioned. if dern were the realm of dark plain and simple there’s no reason to mention it at all. Realm of light isn’t mentioned and the silent expanse isn’t either

[dim plover]

Fair

But then what’s the Silent Expanse though
What does that make SE

[rotund gust]

i just assumed it was part of the realm of war actively showing the imbalance. Wynn is the battle ground of the war of realms, silent expanse shows darkness is winning, or atleast more powerful right now

[dim plover]

I’m not sure I understand

[rotund gust]

Gavel is currently being turned dark, or atleast less bright. instead of 3 balanced realms there’s imbalance. If wynn is a reflection of the war itself as the realm of war, somewhere in the physical world would show that

silent expanse is the part of wynn reflecting that darkness is currently more powerful in the war of realms

[dim plover]

Well, you are correct in saying that the Realms reflect their status onto the Physical Plane

In this case, yeah Darkness is winning the war while Light is in trouble

[rotund gust]

Corruption is stated to just be a byproduct of the two fighting, not a dark force itself or a product of imbalance. So something else should be showing that one side is winning the war

[dim plover]

The fact that Corruption is growing is indicative that the war of the realms is intensifying though

Is the Realm of War not a representation of the war of the realms?

Or like, a reflection of how big the conflict is getting

[rotund gust]

i suppose, but escalation doesn’t outright imply one side is winning, just that both are putting in more effort

[dim plover]

Yeah

[rotund gust]

so something else should imply imbalance in the war. And given that silent expanse is geographically part of wynn, it would make sense if silent expanse is that part

[dim plover]

And given that silent expanse is geographically part of wynn
Actually wait hold on was this ever said somewhere

[rotund gust]

also just thought of something that still makes SE being the garble text in RoL 4 possible in this theory. Dern used to be the physical plane, and SE used to be part of realm of war, but if dern was ripped from reality then silent expanse just kinda… took its place as the most dark influenced area as of right now.

[rotund gust]

the world map? there’s mountains blocking it sure, but it’s still part of wynn it’s not seperated by ocean or anything. If barrier blocks didn’t stop us we could easily go there from the mesa

[rotund gust]

if silent expanse is actively being pulled into the realm of dark like we see in void valley and TNA, then it won’t be able to be the physical plane for RoD forever anyway, and it unnaturally beinf the RoD’s physical plane would explain its distortion

[dim plover]

I still think you should put this entire theory on the forums in one compiled post

It genuinely has legs

[rotund gust]

see, the problem is i don’t wanna touch the forums

[dim plover]

: (

[rotund gust]

actually void valley kinda completes this theory. Darkness is actively doing to SE what it did to dern in this theory. We have in game evidence darkness is trying to add to its realm by tearing holes in reality. if dern used to be a physical plane and got torn out, it would explain the massive void behind the portal, since that’s where dern used to be, and why the portal is in the silent expanse, it’s the most dark area still left in reality

we don’t see it exactly with portals, but things linked to portals can move. Aldorei’s secret 2 shows the elders cutting down the guardian of the forest which opens the portals, but in our time it’s moved to someplace else. the guardian was linked to the portals and it moved 🤷‍♂️

[dim plover]

It’s the same place actually

[rotund gust]

under aldorei we see the original stump, and then in RoL 4 we see the new one regrown somewhere else

[dim plover]

The old guardian of the forest tree that Elder Prometheus cut down is still there in modern day

Like, the stump
Or I guess the Light Portal

[rotund gust]

it’s remains are still there, but it’s dead, and there’s a new one in the light forest

The big tree stump with light portal wasn’t the previous guardian, the stump under aldorei was.

actually lemme rewatch the cutscene to double check

yeah they outright state the tree stump under aldorei was the original guardian. And cutting it down is what opened the portals, or atleast what allowed elder prometheus to open them

and then the guardian regrows where it is in RoL 4

[cloud phoenix]

what do you think happens if someone were to take down the new guardian

[rotund gust]

bad things assumedly

if yall can come up with more evidence for this lemme know. I can’t think of any more rn

[rotund gust]

you think trashie would get mad if i pinged them to get an opinion on this?

[vestal rivet]

idk what timezone he lives in, he may be asleep

[rotund gust]

mmmm

@hybrid gazelle need your opinions on a theory

and now we wait and see i guess

[rotund gust]

trashie has posted things at like times of day before in this channel so who knows

gotta track down like every mention of dern or the war of realms in wynn to see if anything else gives this credence now

[dim plover]

Wouldn’t that make Fruma part of Wynn as well

It’s in the same continent as Wynn
Or like, land mass

[rotund gust]

hmm, fair enough. Silent expanse just seems to be like more a part of wynn i guess. Like the border SE shares with rymek mesa isn’t very tall, while the border fruma shares with wynn spans the entire length of the continent and pushes into the ocean while being snowcapped across its entirety

it’s more of a clear geographic border than what the SE has with the rest of wynn. The jungle (and especially dernal) is argueably more closed off from the rest of wynn than the silent expanse is

it has the great bridge chasm but nothing else, the pigman ravine tunnel is very man-made looking

[wary lantern]

i mean so was the light forest i think
wait no im stupid
it was definitely normal further back i imagine tho, the light cant have been present eternally

[rotund gust]

when do we see the light forest before the equinox?

[wary lantern]

i imagine the darkness just had been playing its cards more carefully while the light was effectively invited so the light emerged earlier

99% sure the world didnt just come into existence with the forest already lightified we just see even less and the dates arent identical

also wait when does it say the expanse only began darkening when the gate opened?
one of the old cutscenes when they changed rol2 showed the dern portal opening and it was alr se-ified around it
from what i hear at least, never saw it in person since it was during one singular patch of the 2.0 beta iirc before they decided nether portal was cooler

[rotund gust]

more implied. miners we see in wynnic excavation aren’t being jumped, olm are able to live there without eldritch horrors, happy lutho being normal

[wary lantern]

happy lutho is normal but like i swear i remember it being implied any further down the road was not so fine and it just chilled before lutho cuz of the obelisk which it eventually got thru as we see in present

[rotund gust]

none of the flashback secrets in SE show it being darkened already

granted none of it show them being normal either, but the fact people are able to live there just fine makes me think it wasn’t darkened yet

[wary lantern]

i just thought it was implied in some dialogue and also with the ponr having the further area being void and all derny i imagined it was implying the kinda "push onwards despite it being fucked" thing tho maybe ig

i mean have you seen elkurns proximity to RoC? lmao
at least lutho has walls and some light influence lol, ppl in this game will live fucking anywhere

[rotund gust]

that part got removed so it isn’t canon :/ but fair enough

[wary lantern]

ig? still shows intent and stuff, it wasnt removed for inaccuracy so it can be considered dubiously so imo but yea best to keep in mind it might be different now or have been misleading

[rotund gust]

also, the light beast infecting gavel with light is only really implied one by one of dialogue as far as i’m aware, and it’s just an interpretation of it. In light forest ultimate Orphion says “a simply nightfall is no worry of mine, and no worry of my claim”

that could imply he claimed gavel as his own and made it light, or it could just imply he always had a claim to gavel.

[wary lantern]

like not to brainrot supreme but like the spamton sweepstakes were "non-canon" but the teasers not only didnt clash with anything but also built things up, like the thing itself isnt canon but the ideas it shows and represents usually are is all i mean

well yea i imagine so i just mean like the light forest was probably just a forest waaaay back down the line

[rotund gust]

Yeah it’s valid, but not enough to shoot down the whole theory

[wary lantern]

yeah agreed
idk tbf they barely made a deal of the expanse being not-derney in ponr and otherwise only for olm lore, it might just be implied and unimportant that the light also showed up in the woods at some point

also the forest guardian being like, a thing that can regrow implies a beginning in the first place since its a tree that grows and became a portal when they fucked it up after it got hella potent, the tree had to be planted/whatevr u call it when that happens naturally at some point

then again the dark portal also had to show up

[rotund gust]

the old guardian didn’t become the portal though. Aldorei secret 2 shows us the original guardian and it isn’t the light portal

[wary lantern]

what??
the whole thing was that they cut down the old guardian to access the portal

[rotund gust]

both are tree stumps, but not the same tree stump

[wary lantern]

the one we know is new i thought, the old ones stump being the portal, i figured an ancient light guardian tree would have a strong enough connection to the light to use as a gateway if exploited was my headcanon at least

[rotund gust]

We see the remains of the first guardian. That’s what’s at the center of the big spiral under aldorei. The elders outright say that was the original guardian. We also see prometheus going into the portal of light in the following cutscene very clearly at the big stump

[wary lantern]

ohhhhhh
why the hell did they have to cut it then now im confused

[rotund gust]

it’s just confusing that both are tree stumps

the guardian is apparently just really linked to light

[wary lantern]

wait no thats not it
they said thats the storage area for the remains of the old guardian
it was the portal?? i think?

the immortality was cuz they had so much op ass light guardian wood it leaked kindaa
the tree there is still a tree notably not cut down and pink instead of the current guardians orange leaves and thicker trunk

[rotund gust]

no they it’s the remnants of the original guardian, not that they moved the part they chopped down under aldorei

oh wait no your right. They do say “we decided to hide the rest of the guardian in”

[wary lantern]

what the hell huh tahts weird
did i fuckin misread the whole quest holy shit im stupid 😭

[hybrid gazelle]

What theory

[rotund gust]

hold on lemme summzerize it gimme a sec to type

[wary lantern]

ok so but why the fuck did they need to kill the old guardian if not to open a portal inside it
like what?? what is the purpose??

[rotund gust]

Dern used to be the Realm of Darkness's physical plane, but it got ripped out of reality and subsumed into the realm of Darkness, hence it now being called the realm of Dern. Thats the premise lemme go over the evidence

[hybrid gazelle]

God I hate guardian trees

[rotund gust]

Dern is referred to alongside the other provinces in llevigar secret library, this wouldn't make sense it if were just another way of referring to the realm of darkness, since the realm of light isn't referred to seperately from gavel in the library

[wary lantern]

WHAT
ok what the fuck dern =/= RoD????? when was this mentioned huhh
it just ate a piece of the main map? what im so lost

[rotund gust]

The RoL 4 war of realms breakdown has the physical planes mirror to the realm of darkness glitched out, its the same letter count as the silent expanse, but then why both obfuscating it, and why is it referred to as realm of darkness there instead of realm of dern.

Silent expanse presumably used to be normal. The Olm used to live there, human miners used to be able to work there, and happy lutho is normal wynn province terrain

[wary lantern]

what did this mean if it wasnt that
like it just. loses all comprehensibility barring my interpretation? or am i dumb

[rotund gust]

Darkness is already known for tearing holes in reality and conquering land, their doing it right now in void valley and the void through Greg.

And lastly theirs the big void hole at the end of the silent expanse with the portal

So heres the idea. Dern used to be the realm of darks physical plane, like gavel for light and wynn for war

[wary lantern]

oh shit ok

[rotund gust]

It got subsumed into the realm of dark, hence why the two are referred to interchangebly. The portal is now in the next darkest location, being the silent expanse.

[wary lantern]

oh my god if thats the case thats cool af
like there used to be a wholeass other province worth south of wynn that just got ate u mean??

[rotund gust]

Thats why the RoL 4 cutscene has glitch text, its not supposed to be the silent expanse

[wary lantern]

oh my god even with the definition of dern

[rotund gust]

thats it. thoughts trashie? any additions or holes thought can think of?

[wary lantern]

i still have zero fucking clue how this solves or even explains any of the whole light guardian isnt the portal thing u mentioned but
aaaa

[hybrid gazelle]

Yeah sure

[rotund gust]

mb i was explaining the theory i pinged trashie for early i was ignore tf out of you sorry

[wary lantern]

a

[hybrid gazelle]

I kinda just wake up so will think about it

[rotund gust]

oh yeah also, the light guardian regrows somewhere else after the portals open, and its linked to portals so the concept of portal related things being moved, such as the dark portal now being at the edge of the silent expanse, isn't out of the quest. thats why we got on the topic of the light guardian tree

[wary lantern]

ok wait so what the hell is with this if it wasnt its corpse that became the portal
i cant see how that makes any sense if its not that

[rotund gust]

idk i think you might be right i may have been misintrepeting.

[wary lantern]

bro is schizophrenic?? (the elf)

ah aaa
my brain melting now qwq

[rotund gust]

i missed the line about them moving the remains of the guardian under aldorei

[wary lantern]

ahh
fair

[rotund gust]

i was gonna go into that but then trashie appeared so i wanted to catch them up to speed

[wary lantern]

yea understandable lol aa
i do really think the dern eaten theory is cool af
the anomaly was further along than we thought

[rotund gust]

Yoooo i like that name

[wary lantern]

lmao x3
consumed dern sounds more ominous to fit darkness if u want a more serious name lol

[rotund gust]

im going to steal that whenever i bring this up again

[wary lantern]

x3

[hybrid gazelle]

That what confuse me like fucking how???

[rotund gust]

im bad at naming theories (do not look at my bob theory on tumblr i still haven't given it an actual name"

[hybrid gazelle]

The light’s screct one shown to be a stump and so as one underneath Aldorei
Like tree can’t have 2 stumps lol

[wary lantern]

i mean its all smaller wood scraps, they probably just broke it down and carried it xdd they do have magic
still would be hard to hide while they did it without all the elves ever helping tho

then again villagers might not have been so prevalent back then too, might have been easier, plus they really dont hang around the light forest whatsoever let alone the valley

[rotund gust]

i didn't intrepret them to be the same. i thought the old light guardian was the same size as the current one and under aldorei, and the stump the light portal is in was soemthing different

[hybrid gazelle]

Why can’t we just have one guardian man

[wary lantern]

we do, it just regrew once it was cut down and killed
theres only one at a time, the light just had to make another after the og died

ig kinda a non-duplicative hydra situation?

[rotund gust]

regardless though, the guardian regrows. something linked to portals moves, so its not out of the question the Dark portal could've moved to the edge of the silent expanse once dern got eated

[wary lantern]

yee
hell the portal floats and portals are by nature highly potently magical, it could have just floated over lol

the rocks arent even all attatched, its probably just RoD/darkness/DB assembling a gateway as needed or moving the old one or smth

the question i have is, what the hell is the RoW portal abt

[rotund gust]

Also the other canidates for being Darkness's mirror in reality don't make sense. If it were always the silent expanse, the text being obfuscated in RoL 4 wouldn't make sense, its lack of mentioning in llevigar library, and why dern is mentioned at all in llevigar if it just a synonmy for darkness

[hybrid gazelle]

Like no I meant just have one guardian and some Therr I literally don’t see the point of this plot

It’s another wynncraft being fucking stupid and try to tell its story in the most frustrating and confusing manner that could easily be done in more simple manner

Like I don’t even see the point of current guardian trees beside fucking up lari for no reason

[wary lantern]

was it just like, the middle placement between dern and gavel? and it just happened to be right on the cliff of a mining setup? or was the portal there first, and what the hell is the significance of that one its just rocks
or maybe emeralds is something sommehow tied to corruption and that was an anomaly hence them mining the shit outta it, would fit the early plans they seemed to have for it

[hybrid gazelle]

Sorry I just woke up so kinda bit hostile but god mentioning guardian tree kinda piss me off cause jfc I hate this goddam tree

[rotund gust]

fruma can't make sense either, since fruma is incredibly cut off from everyone else, while darkness actively conquers. And the silent expanse being the location for the portal to dern/dark if the two are synonyms wouldn't make sense if it were fruma

[wary lantern]

fair
i mean i see why it exists imo, cant have the only methods of communication to the light followers being one random elf being high as balls on shrooms 24/7 or manually afflicted schizophrenia

[hybrid gazelle]

We literally have messeger of the light

[wary lantern]

isnt that the frog

[rotund gust]

so true why does mans need weed to wake up then force 52 lines of unskippable dialogue down our throats

[hybrid gazelle]

We literally have Eih and they never fucking use him at all

[wary lantern]

yeah i am kinda upset abt that i really wanna know more abt the fucker
we get a brushed off kinda "yeah thats the mushroom frog he tells us riddles and is deeply important to our culture" and never mentioned again

[hybrid gazelle]

Appearantly you have to be fucking high to see Eih but like being high look like elves culture

So why Eih did not contact Lari in the first place

[wary lantern]

ngl it might have just been that elf being weird and eccentric and making shit up
like just elf astrology lmfao
idk tho

[hybrid gazelle]

Guardian tree literally exist just to steal Dullahan role of moving lari character and stopping the quest from being something that actually interesting or good story

[rotund gust]

Another thing that got brought up related to this. Wynn is the realm of war. So something in wynn should reflect that darkness is actively winning the war. The silent expanse is the only viable candiate for that something, meaning it has to be part of the realm of war, not realm of dark

[wary lantern]

or maybe the guardian is named Eih and it wasnt supposed to be a frog that was just a side effect of tripping absolute balls? idk

[rotund gust]

corruption shows the battle itself, not that theirs imbalance in the war, and nothing else in wynn is inherently dark or unbalanced besides SE

[wary lantern]

idk its def weird and a holey plot point i hope they patch that up

[hybrid gazelle]

Lore said thst elves get high to talk tot he light which pretty in this case talking to Eih

[rotund gust]

thats why they made this channel, so we could theory out the plot holes ourselves (joke)

[wary lantern]

well i mean the lore there comes from the same person who was addicted to shrooms tbf, im hesitant to fully trust their reliability
but idk

[wary lantern]

lmao
they made this channel to trick us into making lore to fill in their plot holes /j

[hybrid gazelle]

Elves being high likely reference to how irl religion they do practice drug in their ceremony

[rotund gust]

wynncraft is a scott cawthan plot and we are all the matpats

[wary lantern]

lmfaooo

[hybrid gazelle]

But too fucking bad wynncraft never use thst bit as world building but instead of a joke

Because Appearantly the idea of not exploring religion to be respectful does not apply to actually respecting people culture

[rotund gust]

tbh the little bit they do tease us with the religion of light and the dark cult in kander makes me really want more

[hybrid gazelle]

They can’t at that moment because SOMEONE thjnk using religion in your story could be disrespectful and cause people to question th wit faith

Which baffle me cause why the fuck you have religion in your story in the first place

[rotund gust]

we get one whole secret about light being a religion that is worshiped

one everything else is just the elves never shutting up about light

[wary lantern]

yeah the bit about dark magic being banned and the secret cult/old royalty stuff is really interesting
i imagine theyre planning content about that tbh, theres also the very nearby plot thread of all the tisaun stuff and the weird side canyon offmap area thru the airship with the husks

and the items in heros festival and also the TWO mythic lores referencing what seems to have happened
some cursed wizard bound their souls, see Revenant and Alkatraz and the other lore, im so hyped for when they expand the tisaun stuff
also OG gavel stuff pre-calamity PLEASE IT SEEMS SO INTERESTING WHAT WAS AHMS LIKE PRE COLOSSUS WHAT THE FUCK IS THE RUNES AND FORGER ABOUT I MUST KNOWWWW

[rotund gust]

ong i might listen to purple emerald and make a big eaten dern thread on the forums, or atleast on tumblr so i can have all the thoughts related to it gathered somewhere

[wary lantern]

the last bit i imagne will probably come whenever the hell they do anyhting more with cosmic magic
lol nice do it

smh tho consumed dern sounds cooler /lh/j
lol idk im teasing

[rotund gust]

pre calamity? wynncrafted calamity mod when?

[wary lantern]

pfft
cataclysm my bad
like the chaos/order meteors lol

[rotund gust]

devourer of light beasts

[cloud phoenix]

MORE DISCOVERIES!!!

[wary lantern]

oh my god you reminded me WHY IS THERE STILL NO JUNGLE DISCOVERIES HELPPPPP

[rotund gust]

i think samsam answered that a while ago in this channel

[wary lantern]

oh?
where whatd they say

[cloud phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/annoyed-cat-cat-meme-grumpy-cat-grumpy-cat-stare-gif-3894596944565590640

[rotund gust]

nvm it was lex

[wary lantern]

link?

[rotund gust]

^

[wary lantern]

ahh ok

[rotund gust]

all the gavel ones got added together cause gavel update. jungle wasn't a priority with them

Both the ocean and jungle need secrets still

[wary lantern]

i mean those crystals were there for like forever im just sad they blocked off the cool cave under them for it and the lore doesnt explain why the hell that specific valley got like 5 meteor hits lol

[rotund gust]

and one secret inside the realm of light wouldn't go amiss either to cover all the bases

[wary lantern]

ocean needs a revamp tbh lol
they totally could now too, 32 more blocks to work with since newer versions

[rotund gust]

Ocean update: removed grookwarts. thats it

[wary lantern]

lmaooooo

[rotund gust]

thats all we need, instant improvement to the lore (who cares about gameplay)

[wary lantern]

they better keep the nexus somehow tho thats really nice to have
i love the seaskipper but sometimes i do not have the patience to wait 30s

[rotund gust]

isn't it 45s?

[wary lantern]

idk prob
also find a way to keep the cool ass SE foreshadowing secret if they remove it that is a rly fun bit imo

[rotund gust]

i mean its not really SE foreshadowing as much as it is dark in general

[cloud phoenix]

make grookwarts teach actual stuff 😭

[wary lantern]

yee idk why i said se i meant darkness agkjsdgld

[rotund gust]

the ocean is just a weird mix of outdated content and islands with little to no content

[wary lantern]

calculus puzzle

[rotund gust]

or stuff irrevelant/disconnected from the wider world

[wary lantern]

yea

[vestal rivet]

me when that one quest in Cinfras gives you a random location tp option as a reward, and the a place the sequence sends you on the way to your destination is SE Worm Tunnel where Aledar got swallowed

[wary lantern]

the islands while cool feel weirdly disjointed too ngl, like if u look at it enough it just feels weird in places like they just collaged a bunch of random pictures of islands from google maps on a blue paper

[rotund gust]

really cool foreshadow tbh

[wary lantern]

skiens being so close to ice is jarring
tho tbf its not like theres much they can do abt the placements now

[wary lantern]

YEAH i love that bit the worm tunnel snippet is super cool

[rotund gust]

its almost made worse by the fact that corkus is like right there and does "island nation disconnected from everything else" so well

[hybrid gazelle]

ngl for my ROL rewrite I straight up just remove light guardian

I will find a way to try to make guardians lore less confusing but for now I just remove the current light guardian

I probably make it that you can go underneath aldorei in ROL 4 to get into it so there wont be like fucking 2 tree stumps

[rotund gust]

mage island is fine, its used as a midpoint in a lot of quests, ice nations could use a bit more content given how big it is (4 islands but only one quest???) half moon is just a cave, durum is fine with it having the first boss altar and being really small, selchar is good enough although seavale is really outdated, skiens needs something, everyone hates maro, pirate town is okay i guess, bear zoo could use a cave or something, zhight sucks, rooster is fine since its small and has both cluck cluck and ???, volcanic could use a world event or cave but otherwise fine

dead island has kinda of been left to rot

[hybrid gazelle]

I dont like idea of mage island because like

gavel fucking exist
why are all mages are here

[wary lantern]

sort of sidenote i love how gawrick canonically accidentally reinvents shamanry 😭

[hybrid gazelle]

this info should have been in grookwart IDK why it's not

[rotund gust]

true, but it think its fine as is. I don't like mage island but it does kinda do the "home of human mages" idea infinitely better than grookwarts

[hybrid gazelle]

I feel like they should make Grookwart an organization or foundation
Like SCP type shit but like just hear me out

[rotund gust]

gawrick after realizing the avos already do that

[wary lantern]

omg actually yes

PLEASE change grookwarts from a harry potter reference to an SCP one i would KILL for that that sounds sick
they alr have the dern creature thing in the back area too itd work so well
im alraedy automatically making stuff abt this in my head i love that sm

[rotund gust]

oh yeah the isles of fiction are fine too. maybe a cave or world event would help but honestly their fine

they don't need it nearly as bad as the others

[hybrid gazelle]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xEVC2cMm4xJ4npoKisJDtu2AdMjR7ihy7yID8gkhNjs/edit?tab=t.1vzt68tjkvln
here full information

[rotund gust]

like why does the GHOST SHIP have a world event, but skiens, ice nations and dead island don't

GHOST SHIP! THATS A QUEST AREA ITS NOT EVEN AN ISLAND AAAAAA

[hybrid gazelle]

I dont like ghost ships

I will be real

I hate random undead inthe setting I wish it just being gone

ghost ships is the product of those time where like CT just forget that alive people can be bad

[wary lantern]

oops sorry, real gawrick cuz apparently the one we know is some nutso who took the og ones spot after he fucked up trying to do this exact thing

[hybrid gazelle]

let us fucking fight actual pirates man
Like imagine we get to fight corkian pirates

[rotund gust]

yoo that would be sick (also more lore for the corkian nationalist)

[hybrid gazelle]

I havce to remake pirate as a faction in my wartorn take because pirates in wynncraft is so fucking BORING

[wary lantern]

this is the real gawrick who the fuck is the other guy in his house 😭

[rotund gust]

anyway, trashie the reason i called you here. now that were over trashing the guardian what do you think of consumed/eaten dern? You are really good at poking holes in theories

[hybrid gazelle]

Wynncraft lore is like that one kid who have a lot of potential but he does not want to show it out because he is too shy so he just okay stuck being second best or third best in the class even tho he literally could become first best at any time

[rotund gust]

I needed your opinion on it before i go crazy thinking i might be onto something

[hybrid gazelle]

Honeslty I am okay with this theory it could be intresting consider I remember the fact that TNA do pull Dern into physical plane

[rotund gust]

YOOOOOOO A THEORY OF MINE TRASHIE DOESN"T HATE LETS GOOOOOOOOOOO

[wary lantern]

lol

[hybrid gazelle]

I mean go ahead with any theory my opinion litearlly should not affect your LOL
cause mostly I just ramble about how I fucking hate Qira or Guardian tree

[rotund gust]

https://tenor.com/view/woo-yeah-baby-thats-what-ive-been-waiting-for-thats-what-its-all-about-moist-gif-15801276436537760830

[rotund gust]

i mean yeah but your also very knowledgable about wynn theories and almost everyone else who frequents the channel saw it and didn't immediatly find a hole in it

[hybrid gazelle]

I just liek to question theory a lot because I wanna see if the person who make it got something to back it up or not and I dont want to subs to theory that just exist for the sake of existing

[wary lantern]

i have unfortunate news for you sir
the good news is nobody else but you is stuck in random pocket dimensions

[hybrid gazelle]

like Lari being dead theory

Liek that theory only fucking exist because people just LOVEEE the idea of LAri being dead to uncomfortable amount

[rotund gust]

tf is lari being dead theory

[wary lantern]

oh

[hybrid gazelle]

it just people think lari is fucking dead post ROl 5

[rotund gust]

me when im a chrono trigger reference

[wary lantern]

huh wym

[hybrid gazelle]

which is like stupid because how Lari being dead offscreen benefit the story

[wary lantern]

yeah

[rotund gust]

oh that. i mean maybe idk theres no evidence one way or the other. the only evidence is either "thats a dumb writing decision to kill her off screen" or "i hope they killed her"

[wary lantern]

i feel like she will probably end up being relevant to us when we finally get dern content and go there
in one way or another

[hybrid gazelle]

it is and it really dumb because these people dont think what this theory would do for the narrative of the story
they just want it for their personal reason

[rotund gust]

not really a theory when the only "evidence" is intrepting one singular line of vague dialogue. thats a headcanon

[wary lantern]

yeah lmao

[rotund gust]

like in middle school, have atleast 3 different points of evidence for your essay

[hybrid gazelle]

anyway looking back at Grookwart I kidna wanna remove Collector Guiild and replace them with Wynnex and Grookwart

Collector guild kinda dumb so I probably gonna remove them as subfaction

[wary lantern]

so many people instantly hated lari more than they liked to breathe air that it just became default it was crazy
i mean i can see the points about her being fucky i guess but jesus christ ppl went insanely far into hatred lol

[hybrid gazelle]

From what I seen Lari hater is more obessesed with Lari than people who like Lari
this is not even a joke

[wary lantern]

yeah lmfao
lari simps could not dream of the obsession with lari lari haters have lmao

[rotund gust]

i mean, theres also the people who really like lari

[hexed nova]

Real and true

[hybrid gazelle]

People who really like Lari is either one of those "elf waifu" MF or do it just to troll Lari hater(Lari hater is the easiest mf to ragebait), the first being very rare and mostly just hated by other anyway

there is reason why I just have people who geniunely like Lari character into more safer space because talking about Lari in wynncord is near impossible

anyway on topic of Lari I kinda explore her spell set for ROL rewrite

honestly I like the idea she enchance her magic with Light magic somewhat
her spells mostly focus on retraint, disarming, and pacifying

[rotund gust]

so... ralsei

[hybrid gazelle]

I ahve htis lay out so it does not look like Lari just bullshitting but she actually have ability to dealt with situation with no violence needed

Yeah this is pretty much Ralsei only on pacifying part
Lari can control vine, create barrier, and flashbang people

she has general spells that elves would have but also added light on top

elves usually call upon Orphion or other light entity to aallow them to use light but after Orphion disconenct from plane, most of them have to relying on elemental magic solely
Lari is different because she is chosen one so she can generate her own light magic to use

which is why she can live for so long becasue she essentailly walking reactor of light

so summary other elves needed Oprhion to do light magic for them but for Lari the light came from herself

[wary lantern]

wht the fuck does this mean-

[hybrid gazelle]

if this is Dern Beast hten it pretty sick but yeah

[wary lantern]

is the goddamn DB tryna fuck this man up or is he only now after 900 years in the void developing mental issues

[wary lantern]

thatd be cool af ngl

[rotund gust]

thats the chronotrigger reference lost outside time guy right (i really hope its a chrono reference and im not misintrepreting that)

[hybrid gazelle]

I always imagine Dern Beast be a cat but yeah the design is not really final

[wary lantern]

this is depressing as shit

[rotund gust]

dern beast not only colonizing space by taking the void but also colonzing time? mf got dialga and palkia in his party

[wary lantern]

also idk anything abt chrono trigger qwq elaborate?

[hybrid gazelle]

It did kidnap olms who have power over cosmic magic so it very likely

[rotund gust]

Ok so in chrono trigger the central hub is called the end of time. theres an old man stuck there who gives wisdom to the party.

[hybrid gazelle]

it's my personal belief that Dern Beast drawn to olms due to their use of cosmic magic

these cosmic magic have space origin

Space is literally just space of darkness

Dern beast is being of darkness

[rotund gust]

can you take a screenshot of the whole pocket dimension thing?

https://tenor.com/view/chrono-trigger-super-nintendo-jrpg-end-of-time-video-game-gif-24208873

[wary lantern]

specifically time magic too with time valley (what is up with that i wonder, i know the weird temporal catastrophe was likely plotted by DB but how? did it use the olms power to fuck themself up thru time in the first place? thatd be neat ngl)

[hybrid gazelle]

I like to protray Realm beast as being that madeu p of abstract concept

[wary lantern]

the area looks this way which is similar looking somewhat

[hybrid gazelle]

and ngl I kinda dislike how Dern Beast protray as loud attack like BIG ASS FIREBALLS and stuff

I think that ruin its vibe a bit

it attack should be more quiet and subtle

[wary lantern]

that was a meteor

[rotund gust]

yeah but its not as close of a reference as i hoped it would be. They should add like a lampost or something there

[hybrid gazelle]

https://tenor.com/view/thunderbolts-thunderbolts-marvel-thunderbolts-sentry-sentry-marvel-void-marvel-gif-10809741654256285358

[wary lantern]

sent by it but still

[rotund gust]

aren't there three different pocket dimensions you can get stuck in?

[hybrid gazelle]

I wish Dern Beast did to olms instead of big ass fireballs

[wary lantern]

yes

[rotund gust]

❌

the observatory is meant for meteors but the olm explicitely say that whats heading towards them is a fireball though

[rotund gust]

does one of them have a lamppost?

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah it like stupid because i wish Dern Beast 's attack have more aura and something that fit it mroe than big ass fireballs

[wary lantern]

it literally baited them into the expanse and kidnapped them tbf
and when they escaped it went fuck no and bruteforced their minds so bad they all either submitted or went insane and died
the fireballs was just to get the city out of the way and stuff

[rotund gust]

wdym baited them into the expanse?

[hybrid gazelle]

Even then it should not been fire ball it just lack aura that ltierally it

[rotund gust]

i thought they went their cause they fucked up time in timevalley

[wary lantern]

temporal cataclysm shit i thought was db
idk

[rotund gust]

oh maybe

[wary lantern]

ohh that was their fault?
i thought it was ambiguous and figured thatd be the kind of thing db could and would orchestrate

[hybrid gazelle]

ltierally this movie could be use as reference to how Dern Beast coul be like

[wary lantern]

https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Old_Mage

bro please look 3 feet to ur left theres a way out

[hybrid gazelle]

cause like I knwo this sound like such tiny thing to get upset over but little thing like this matter because it made up the villains

like imagine instead of we getting big ass fireball

we just see Olmic city just get dark and trhen people start disappearing everytime darkness surrounding them

[wary lantern]

then again hes 900 years in the future everyone he knows is dead and the world is significantly more fucked up idk if hed want to lol

[hybrid gazelle]

like imagine we found a note from survivos of olmic city talking about how people been disappearing in the dark and their only mean of survival at the moment is this one lantern that by the time you manage to uncover their hideout, the lantern already went out

this would make dern beast feel more overwhelming and unknown forces rather than
BIG ASS FIREBALLS

becaus sadly that just generic and not fit with the whole beast of darkness kind of thing

[rotund gust]

especially when nothing in the SE has fire motifs

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah wyncnraft just have very strange running idea of them being the most boring fantasy setting possibled I geniunely dont know why

[upper drum]

its like his weapons apparently so they are weak
the flower like shed his blood ig?

[hybrid gazelle]

I geniunely dont know why I almsot liek they dont want being fantasy setting it very weird

[rotund gust]

meteors? theres the observatiory and A wynnic excavation showing that the excavation crystals were all meteors that crashed in the SE, makes sense. A wave of darkness, sick as hell. Anything else? better

BUT FIREBALLS? SOMETHING THAT PRODUCES LIGHT????

[hybrid gazelle]

I will be real I think we better discard crystal in the lore because most of them just very outdated materials

like some crystals in the lore literally exist for the sak eof it like fucking Wynnex

also here my concept of crystal replacement
Wynnex rewrite maybe

[rotund gust]

I mean, currently sloting the wynn excav crystals into meteor lore makes sense, and honestly it would make even more sense for them to lean further into it in the wynnex rewrite

the olm say meteors fell in the SE, thats why they have the observatory watching them. the crystals are in the SE, hence wynnic excavation, and they are a similar size to the gavel meteors. and they arguebaly turn amadel insane when he harnesses them

[hybrid gazelle]

no I mean like crystal use in Wynnex just boring mcguffin

even then CT state that the crystal discovery in SE just nothing burger

wynenx crystal also just product of its time, they serve nothing and PERSONALLY their existence also just boring when you have better alternative option in the setting

IDK man I feel like the idea of olmic artifacts just a lot more exciting than colorful kidney stones that apperantly powerufl I GUESS?

[rotund gust]

i mean samsam talked about it a bit earlier in this channel when i misintrepreted it as implying theirs multiple wynnexc crystals

its boring as hell, but its canon

[hybrid gazelle]

fuck them canon because canon wynncraft geniunely one of the most boring fantasy setting I ever seen

[rotund gust]

i mean, theres interesting parts of canon they just aren't explored

[hybrid gazelle]

IDK man othe fantasy dont need to hide away its intresting part
Runeterra is pretty intresting on surface level
so as Warhammer in both fantasy or 40K

[rotund gust]

warhammer is a lot more completed with a lot more writers though

[hybrid gazelle]

it just wynncraft specific problem for some reason
it take 2.1 to finally get something intrest like that annie lore is awesome and it does not neven need to be hide away with layer of layers of gameplay

[rotund gust]

idk shit about runeterra

[hybrid gazelle]

does not matter even if you remove all that the premise of thes etting still intresting
the writing is not the point

it's the idea
Warhammer 40K start out as some dumbass reference to sci fi plot that eventually evolve into something intresting

it's about the IDEA

[rotund gust]

also i think wynncraft lore does have capacity to be interesting, see the fact that i've been mad raving about eaten dern or a bunch of us going on about how great the twain story line is except frostbite yesterday

[hybrid gazelle]

also it does not need t obe big story it just world building tidbits

like did you know in Warhammer fantasy, steam tank is a rare machine that its creator die laong with his blueprint making some sort of national treasure

or in Runeterra, how demacia soldier ride fucking sausage dog in battle

this small thing can make setting feel intresting
it make thing feel original
it feel like I reading something written with intrest

like sure there like intresting story about wynncraft but you really need to dig into it
I say that wynncraft just need bit flair in their presentation and little things

like do you need a lot of writers to come up with a name "Bloodletter" for basic daemon grunt? No

but yeah most of thse complaint mostly gone after 2.1 beccause those those time it feel like they done a lot of work on little things that make setting intresting

it just the problem of there so many old stuff i wynncraft at this point
like jfc the pirates

anyway looking at this piece of shit doc and I feel like it already old somehow
I hate most of my work

like why the fuck do I have this here

[dim plover]

I made the scepter Olmic in my WynnEx rewrite :>

[hybrid gazelle]

ok

[rotund gust]

i wish gavel excavation were a bit more explored

wynn excavation gets the massive quest series (even though its outdated it still was the longest questline until RoL)

where as gavel excavation gets name dropped in ???, has one secret discovery and thats kinda it

star thief and the llevigar meteor lab thing maybe?

Like, tie them to something else like maybe siegfried is their mascot or they have their hands in something related to the heights

a thousand meters under is kinda weird with them since its implied their the ones funding the expdation down, but then the villagers give us a recipe to make the crystal. Is that it? cosmic magic is solved cause the villagers give us the recipe to make our own meteors???

A thousand meters under is so good im just now realizing its implications on meteor lore

[dim plover]

I still want to know where the Gavel meteors come from

They’re like a Catalyst Comet situation

[rotund gust]

https://tenor.com/view/space-tim-curry-gif-7935778

i mean the gavel meteors (and presumably the wynnex crystals) seem to just be from space

maybe their linked to the void somehow given that the void villagers know how to make them?

well probably get something meteor lore related in fruma given sohso

wait hold on what year do the gavel meteors fall

1400 is the two gylia cataclysm meteors. Presumably the 4 wynnex crystals feel in the SE shortly before 0AP, unless the dern beast invades the SE before the portals open somehow since i don’t think we get any years for that

so their probably not linked to significant events like catalyst comets then, just all of similar origins

yahya being in the shattered minds trip actually proves that the meteors and cosmic magic are related to Light and War of Realms (jk jk, unless?)

[dim plover]

What

[rotund gust]

in one thousand meteors under were sent to go get a “crystal” that fell in the void by a mysterious company

it’s down in void village, and their using it to power something, so instead of giving it back they give us a recipe to make more

i feel like it’s implied that the company is gavel excavation sending is to get a meteor

i just checked the wiki says in trivia that’s its funded by wynn excavation (but it’s more likely gavel excavation since their sister companies)

mf just… gives us a recipe to make more crystals??? So just make more things harnessing cosmic magic???

[dim plover]

Yeah but where does it say that the void crystals and the wynnex crystals are in any way similar

Or that the void crystals are even cosmic in nature

[rotund gust]

i guess it doesn’t other than i look similar. But like, every crystal we’ve seen thus far is connected in some way. The wynnex crystals, the gylia meteors, star thief, the ??? meteors, the cosmic crystals secret. It would be odd to just introduce a crystal, link it to the excavation companies and just not have it be a cosmic crystal

also it originated from the surface, we’re just going and getting it

it being linked to the Excavation companies and being a crystal is enough to imply it’s a meteor in my mind, or atleast some type of cosmic magic

[dim plover]

The meteors aren’t crystals what

[rotund gust]

the wynnex crystals are though, and a wynnic excavation and the final moments together all but confirm they are meteors

their just called crystals.

[rotund gust]

also cosmic crystals secret has crystal in the name

the two crystals in a thousand meters under are blue (the fakeout one we build a bridge to) and purple (the one in void village) which are both implied to be a set given the two fall together in lake gylia representing chaos and order. just another weird coincidence

[drifting aurora]

well the silent expanse certainly got dark-ified long before 0 AP

because the olm have been gone from there for a long long time

[cloud phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/curse-of-ra-curse-of-ra-gif-10622361558915339590

[hybrid gazelle]

THE DARKNESS IS COMING

[rotund gust]

so the portal didn’t need to be open for darkness to invade… hmmmmmmmmmm

[drifting aurora]

that's one interpretation

[rotund gust]

eaten dern becoming more and more promising by the minute

well either that or the portals were previously open when darkness invaded SE and then got closed again for some reason, but there isn’t evidence of that. They seem to open as a set given that war and light open at the same time (i know dark opening with them isn’t in the cutscene anymore so it’s not canon but still)

or its all fuck off Olm time crap. since bak’al would’ve needed to put the eye in EO atleast after 0AP since he goes into the portal, and all the olm go crazy cause of the eye, but they leave SE long before that

[hybrid gazelle]

cosnider Light Forest exist even 0 AP happen

it entirely possible that Light and Dark always able to access Plane of Physicality to begin with

[dim plover]

Do we know the earliest recorded year and what happened in it

[drifting aurora]

i dont think the eye necessarily needs to be detached from the beast to drive the olm crazy

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah I think olms just gone insane over their paranoid

OLms gone into dern and came out crazy after their escape

[drifting aurora]

i will point to this

[rotund gust]

oh… i mean i guess, i just figure the eye being seperated and actually in the SE overlooking wynn is why they seem so caught up with the eye, not the dern beast as a whole

[drifting aurora]

from ne du valeos du ellach

[rotund gust]

yeah for the first time, the eye can only see now that it’s in wynn instead of realm of dark like the rest of the dern beast

atleast that’s what i thought that meant

[hybrid gazelle]

have to bring upt he giant theory i have again but I feel like what happen to SE likely could happen in Gavel that result in existence of Light Forest

[drifting aurora]

the beast speaks of it as if it's a recent event

is moreso what i mean

[hybrid gazelle]

my theoryu is Equinox happen to allow Dern Beast to get access to ROL by the use of Plane of physicality as proxy

which is why it send Parasite the moment the Equinox happen because now the parasite would able to access to ROL through plane ofp hysicality where portals are now open

this thoeyr kinda fall apart when parasite just pull portal out of its ass but let's ignore that

[rotund gust]

i mean their assumedly primordial embodiments of elements that are probably older than history, the portals opening 1000 years ago could be considered recent to them

i assumed when the dern beast mentioned “recent events” at the start of the secret their either talking about the portals, in reference to them upping their conquest now that the portals are open, or maybe the players actions?

also piercing the viel is a bit odd word choice. The eye gave the olm ptsd all the way our in dernal. If the olm got freaked out about eyeballs before the eye got put in EO what exactly is it piercing. It can already see out of the realm of dark

[hybrid gazelle]

I think it more of paranoid of Dern Beast going after them again

[rotund gust]

if it’s referring to the player as the “recent events” i guess it could be a 4th wall break since the eye stares at the screen

but feels really out of place in wynn

[rotund gust]

but they mention the eye specifically a couple times

they all got eyeball ptsd

although that’s all like… old signs on walls lore so that could be really outdated

[drifting aurora]

could be your timeline is incorrect

[rotund gust]

MAN

[drifting aurora]

tbf i dont know what your timeline is so maybe not

but if something doesnt click then maybe somewhere else theres an incorrect assumption

[rotund gust]

Hold on lemme summarize then

[drifting aurora]

the site D ancient city signs are up to date, they were updated relatively recently (either 1.20 or 2.0)

[drifting aurora]

im not gonna confirm or deny so you dont gotta do it for me, just pointing it out

[rotund gust]

D: you tell me i could be wrong then won’t tel me if im right or wrong what is this

scammm

idk bak’al being the one who puts the eye in EO just makes be really confused with timeline of things

everything else makes sense to me just not that

since bak’al appears after the portals open, but the olm already had like eye related trauma and imagery. but why was the eye specifically so special compared to the rest of the dern beast before it got ripped out

it makes sense why it’s special after it gets ripped out and put it EO, it’s actively seperated

but if bak’al’s the one who put the eye in EO, we know it has to be AP that it happens, then the dern beast was whole when it invaded the SE so what gives with the eye stuff

did the olm just have a thing about eyes

[drifting aurora]

the darkness as a whole seems to have a thing with eyes tbh

[rotund gust]

fair enough i guess

[drifting aurora]

lots of eye based creatures

[rotund gust]

i’m also curious how many eyes the dern beast is gonna have, since in the ult secret when it rips out the EO eye we can still see from its perspective, so either that’s just a gameplay thing or it has more eyes

mf is just a lovecraftian ball of eyes

that’s why bak’al has that freaky big eye it’s cause he spent too long with derny

[dim plover]

1

Just 1 eye the Dern Beast is blind now

[rotund gust]

unfortunate

[dim plover]

Don’t worry though Dern Beast is not completely defenceless, they’re just nerfed

When we fight the Dern Beast they can see us through echolocation

(Also it is deaf)

[dim plover]

_ _- pig man reference

[rotund gust]

mf got tremorsense from d&d

dern beast is Toph now

can’t wait for them to give dern beast an actual name im tried of typing two words. It’s so much work

derny

[dim plover]

Theory: Dern Beast is named Dern

[rotund gust]

Dern Beast is the blacksmith Dren in disguise

[dim plover]

Since we already know that the Beasts are the Realms themselves, this doesn’t necessarily not make sense

[rotund gust]

i mean yeah, but then you get that situation of “oh yeah dern” “wait which one the realm the beast or the not-province”

[dim plover]

Light Realm -> Unknown Name
Light Beast -> Known Name

Dark Realm -> Known Name
Dark Beast -> Unknown Name

It fits
Soon they’ll reveal to us that the Light Realm’s name is Realm of Orphion and then via process of pattern identification the community can guess that the Dark Beast’s name is Dern

[rotund gust]

mmmm, idk about that one

[void gale]

Did Dullahan die a virgin?

[rotund gust]

probably

idk how freaky the elves get wynn (unfortunately) never explores that side of their world building

[dim plover]

Probably also isn’t something we should be discussing too deeply in a family-friendly Discord server

[rotund gust]

oh right

anyway, do you think wybels are tied to cosmic magic?

they both come from space and orange wybel is like weirdly powerful for no discernible reason

also it would be funny if wybels were the reason the meteors have cosmic magic

[dim plover]

I find it hard-pressed to believe that Wybels are the source of the meteor magic

They’re just really intelligent aliens

[hybrid gazelle]

I think the naming of cosmic magic is more of the fact that the magic is magic of hte universe which is time and space

rather than being from literal space actually now that I think about it

so I dont think wybel would tied to cosmic magic

[shut hornet]

i mean.. hes not dead

so No

[dim plover]

I think they meant during the chop

[lunar jungle]

I've always wondered what the lore reason for the key guardians existing in the world and why there's always a villager taking them as payment at every dungeon

Instead of y'know
Just walking past him

[dim plover]

Are those even canon

I thought they were gameplay features

[thin geyser]

I always interpreted the villagers as guardians, to stop any random person from wandering in

[hybrid gazelle]

mostly gameplay stuff because why the fuck random villager guardin some abanoned sewers LOL

stuff like this probably need take with certain common sense
I am sure these get remake later on but it probably like raid party NPC situation

[wispy bay]

The villager in EO:

[left needle]

Afelis character quest

[hybrid gazelle]

I think Afelis having quest of their own would ruin the charm

It’s same line as seaskipper kind of deal

[errant geyser]

Idk man

I don’t think lari got freaky because she probably thought that it was against the light

[rotund gust]

afelis fills a niche no other character does, i like them

they go through their journey at the same time we do, making it a quest just wouldn’t work in that format

[hybrid gazelle]

yoiu know that women can have other reason to not get "freaky"?

Like you know maybe he does not even like the guy romantically

[hybrid gazelle]

yeah it never would work I think Afelis work better as twhat they are now

[errant geyser]

I know but laris reason was probably what I said

[hybrid gazelle]

No? It literally taht she does not even like Dullahan romantically

I pretty sure CT once mention there is a scene that was cut in ROL 3 where Lari reject Dullahan advancement

[errant geyser]

Wait actually?

[hybrid gazelle]

yes? Like your reasoning is weird to begin with

[errant geyser]

My bad chat

[rotund gust]

(pretty sure that’s just a common suggestion for additions, since people kept bringing it up when the lari ace discussion happened)

[hybrid gazelle]

nah it not I think some CT mention that was a scene that got scrapped

[errant geyser]

So she’s not aro ace

[hybrid gazelle]

sicne it also meant to show the freacture between the two relationship

[hybrid gazelle]

she is an ACE from what i heard
I pretty sure Grain have her as that but dont quote me on that

[rotund gust]

soft canon. It’s not actually hinted at in game at all that she’s ace, but CT say she is ace, so take it as you will

[hybrid gazelle]

i would say just treat her as an ace since that what her creator want her to be

[errant geyser]

Dang

[hybrid gazelle]

Depend on the context

[rotund gust]

that’s probably the best option, but like you also aren’t wrong for treating her otherwise since there’s nothing in game to say otherwise

but like if you want to be most correct then yeah she’s ace

[hybrid gazelle]

there nothing wrong that why I never mention her being an ace but thinking that women does not want to get "freaky" solely because of her religion is such a weird though rpocess

like IDK man maybe women just dont intrest in the guy romantically, there is literally like other though process too

[errant geyser]

I assumed she liked dullahan

[hybrid gazelle]

She did not, she like him platonically but not romantically

[errant geyser]

Cooked

[shut star]

Are there gods by lore in this game? Who is the manager!?

[bright crater]

do the wynncraft writers finally lore

are there any canonical reasons why the barrier mountains exist

[pallid rain]

because Maro Peak

[rotund gust]

Hold on i may have hit a wrench in eaten dern theory. I’m trying to put to together a draft of it on tumblr, and while looking for dern’s mention in llevigar secret i have discovered that was actually removed in 2.0

[cloud phoenix]

why tumblr?

[rotund gust]

this does not bode well. there’s enough evidence for me to still believe it but like that was one of the main ones

i use tumblr and hate the forums. And i already posted a couple wynn theory’s on tumblr

figure i’ll make the draft there then put it on the forums once i have a more completed version

i want to get all my thoughts about it in one place though since each time i try to think through or explain it i come up with something else adding to it

[mint yacht]

Do you think we will ever get a lore rework update?

[bright crater]

So Wynncraft's geography is really weird
I believe this is mostly due to the fact that Wynncraft was initially made in Minecraft 1.5 which did not have barrier blocks
Custom maps in that era had two options to prevent out-of-bounds: use unscalable barrier mountains, or make the map floating islands, and Wynncraft being an MMORPG with a large continuous map had to use the former
This map style continues to today (with Salted confirming that Fruma will also be in this style), but without a lore explanation I believe

[rotund gust]

not a complete one, but each update seems to bring minor reworks to lore. I doubt we’ll ever get a complete overhaul to lore though

[mint yacht]

i think at this point it wouldn't hurt despite how huge of an update/change it would be

theres not much fluidity. especially with the legend of Bob

[bright crater]

yea i hope a complete lore rework is done

[mint yacht]

They may release mostly polished updates, but were still building on an outdated foundation

[bright crater]

so we won't need any more retcons

[rotund gust]

1.20 completely redoing realm of light is probably the most overarching lore changes we’ll get for a very long time

[mint yacht]

there's still many outdated builds

not that they are making bad changes. they are doing good things, but i think their focus is on new ideas instead of foundational updates

and at its current state, wynn needs foundational updates

[rotund gust]

a lot of more self-contained stories could use reworks (wynnex, bob, certain parts of the twain storyline, etc) but as far as overarching story goes i feel like it’s fairly solidified

[mint yacht]

I would agree

[rotund gust]

some things we’ll probably get in fruma. Like sohso being will fruma will probably give us more lore on meteors or the wynnex crystals (Fruma Excavation quest?)

[mint yacht]

that would be crazy

[daring cloak]

we just had like two foundational major updates tho. mob rework and spell/class rework

not to mention like lootruns raids etc etc etc

[mint yacht]

This is true

[bright crater]

yea but lore

[mint yacht]

I meant lorewise. I should have specified

[bright crater]

lore, background, and settings

[daring cloak]

what like a lore rework?

[hybrid gazelle]

I think most lore update that wynncraft need the most is update most of the quests
I still do think some lore still need to be update in general lioke making Wynn feel more like wartorn province

Lore rework can go in a lot of work
either Mass quests rework or update maps to fit with the modern lore

[daring cloak]

interesting idea how would that go tho

[bright crater]

i also think we need a landscape rework

[mint yacht]

Personally I think the legend of Bob could have a greater impact on the main storyline. He was the former hero of wynn. Now you, the player, fill his shoes

[hybrid gazelle]

it wont because this update would not benefit Salted's pocket at all

logically this would be massive waste of money
and I am not talking about Salted being greedy too
it just logical

[mint yacht]

the only problem is a lore rework and quest rework is a huge endeavor, and pricey for sure

[daring cloak]

meh bad reasoning salted doesn’t care about money. 2.0 and 2.1 are reasonings behind that. if it makes the game better he will be happy

[hybrid gazelle]

2.1 at least have benefit of giving player reason to play the game mroe
lore is just
such a niche piece of content that nobody would care or play more

[rotund gust]

the biggest “retcon” we’ve had since the RoL rewrite was aldorei’s secret 2 showing us how the portals got opened

[mint yacht]

some people are lore nerds

[hybrid gazelle]

2.0 at least update ground work for archetype that allow the game to be more playable more

2.1 update mob system allowing for various form of contents that they would use to make new contents like Annie

[daring cloak]

if they added a whole new intro storylines + a bunch of long quest lines and this discord channel lore is very cool. plus i know a bunch of ct who would WANT to work on lore

[mint yacht]

I feel like the lore behind the portal opening is so convoluded

[hybrid gazelle]

the problem is SOME not the majority and but if we do have lore update, it liely mass quest

[bright crater]

though a major landscape update would need wynncraft to update its map engine to allow extended height ranges and it doesn't seem like the wynn dev team is willing to suffer through that

[rotund gust]

fr i don’t like the entirety of wynn and gavels problems being one old elf’s fault

[hybrid gazelle]

mass quests, anotehr mobs update, build update would be good

Charon need fucking rework man

[bright crater]

still hope that a major landscape update happens

[daring cloak]

honestly what i want to see is at least some of the secret discos library lore be turned less into reading and more into actual dynamic stuff

[hybrid gazelle]

shit like golem need update lore wise because holy fuck golem lore suck
Please CT if you update golem just update them over all

[daring cloak]

wdym by mass quests

[mint yacht]

not to mention the miners excavating it and finding the crystals along with it? With the addition of the Olms hiding them again.

[rotund gust]

i mean the libraries are good tbh. there’s only a couple and they give us info that would be really hard to tell elsewhere

[hybrid gazelle]

updat eA LOOOOTTTT of quests including advance Tasim and Aledar story to most updated level

[mint yacht]

But then the dern beast comes out of the portal near eldritch outlook and drives them out into time valley at some unknown time

[bright crater]

libraries could use the dialog thing minecraft added

[rotund gust]

oh yeah, the meteors cause problems too. one old elf guy and space are the cause of all of wynn and gavels problems

[daring cloak]

i feel like quests reworks, mob reworks, build reworks always happen intermittently or are spiced into major updates

[hybrid gazelle]

that no longer relevant lore LOL according to some CT, it's just there for the sake of it

[mint yacht]

yeah gavelexcavation becoming wynnexcavation

yeah theres just so much and it doesnt make sense

[bright crater]

we need a retcon to end all retcons

[hybrid gazelle]

that not how the time line goes
Cosmic event happen first that drove Olm into SE and then Dern Beast attack SE which result in olms getting kidnap into Dern

which Olms escape Dern and then end up in dernel jungle where they all went insane

[mint yacht]

the olms were in time valley though

[hybrid gazelle]

as I say COSMIC EVENT HAPPEN that drove them from Time valley

[mint yacht]

then the jungle. Otherwise who built the valleu?

[daring cloak]

the issue with this current lore it’s just a spaghetti monster of old lore and updated more mashed together

[bright crater]

see this is why we need a lore update

[mint yacht]

From time valley to silent expanse?

[hybrid gazelle]

Yes

[daring cloak]

but i feel that kinda makes it beautiful in a way?

[mint yacht]

I didn't know that. That makes sense, thank you

I feel like that could be explained through the main storyline better

[rotund gust]

no the excavation lore kinda makes sense right now. Gavel excavation investigated the meteors (including the Se Meteors/wynnex crystals) Once they find the wynnex crystals they set up a sister company/new branch for wynn dedicated to those crystals

[hybrid gazelle]

it is because you can annoy CT by mentionning tribal peopel

[bright crater]

what was their escape route

[rotund gust]

it’s kinda boring when you break it down but it makes sense. The meteors effects themselves are what’s weird

[hybrid gazelle]

crystal

Dont ask me how I have 0 fucking idea

[mint yacht]

yes that makes sense. I was just confused on the whole timeline of them finding the crystals, then the olms re-hiding them

[bright crater]

i have a "southern ocean" speculation

[mint yacht]

And they also studied the meteors via the 4 brothers as gavelex

I do like the lore of the 4 brothers. I hope we see sohso in fruma

[bright crater]

there's a ship in lusuco basin right

[daring cloak]

😭 for the love that all that is holy rework dernel troms quests fucking “troubled tribesmen”

[bright crater]

since there is a shipwreck in lusuco for some reason i believe there is an ocean to the south of wynn not shown on the map which borders the dern portal, lusuco, dernel, maybe even fruma

[rotund gust]

the wiki (idk if it still does but it used to say) that the twains hid the crystals. But that’s kinda dubious idk if there’s actual evidence for that. Most of the crystals aren’t in areas with olmic architecture though, outside of the green crystal which has the ancient olmic city near it

[drifting aurora]

open 1 portal = all portals open. chain reaction

[mint yacht]

yes

[drifting aurora]

wynnex lore mostly makes sense except for the one damn SE discovery that i hate

[mint yacht]

okay there is one thing i dont get

[bright crater]

does the shipwreck in lusuco still exist

[drifting aurora]

might be a cave

[rotund gust]

I mean, after learning i was misinterpreting it as being multiple crystals it makes sense. It just confirms that the wynnex crystals are meteors that hit the silent expanse, which as already kind of implied

[mint yacht]

during the legend of Bob, he gets 3 pets. Afterward, near the end of his story he travels to gateway island. How do all of his pets get to where they are? Did he meet Nohno, Skien, and why is Baab in maro peaks?

[drifting aurora]

Good question actually

[hybrid gazelle]

I will be real I think that just old lore LMAO

[mint yacht]

is it applicable lore?

[bright crater]

yea Raging Survivor

[rotund gust]

idk their really competent pets

[hybrid gazelle]

What did mooington do....

[drifting aurora]

what crimes did mooington commit

[rain saffron]

I just thought they just scattered around yk but gen idk

[rotund gust]

moonington was arrested for his involvement in the milking machine of cowfusion

[mint yacht]

it would make sense that while Bob was training in Troms, he met Skien before he went insane, and sent Mooington with him

[drifting aurora]

baab i think mostly makes sense. Yeah a sheep with part of bob's power Would probably result in a cult

but why is mooington at skiens island

[mint yacht]

It would make sense that Bob at least was acquainted with the Sodeta guild

[drifting aurora]

i think when that quest inevitably gets touched up or remade there'll be an explanation added for it, but as of now it's just odd

[mint yacht]

and Skien

[rotund gust]

ok i checked the wiki. The purple crystal being right next to twain manor is why people think the twains are the ones who hid the crystals, and it fits in the timeline to assume that

[drifting aurora]

hot take: i like bob's pets :)

[mint yacht]

I thought there was a discovery that said otherwise. I could be wrong

[drifting aurora]

maybe not that you kill them. thats a little sad

[mint yacht]

My wife drew a picture of Bob's pets. It's actually pretty dope

[regal spire]

My assumption is that skien was a friend of Bob, left mooington in skien’s care, then he got taken to the island, once he went all coo-coo crazy

[cloud phoenix]

hard asf

[mint yacht]

That's what I was thinking too

[rain saffron]

YOOOO that is so fire

[drifting aurora]

that timeline has mooington going with skien way early in like 900 or so though

[mint yacht]

She's a very talented artist

[regal spire]

Did skien “die” around 955?

[rotund gust]

the discoveries just show that the olm used cosmic magic to some degree. We know they were studying the SE meteors. But given that the wynnex crystals are still in the SE during a wynnic excavation secret, the olm weren’t the ones who brought the crystals out of the SE

[hybrid gazelle]

I still dont like teh animal companion like why did Bob jjust have his friend getting kill 😭

[regal spire]

Lemme check that, actually, I haven’t brushed up on the island lore since 1.20

[hybrid gazelle]

There must be way better to do it right?
Surely Bob dont just have like "alright my friend, you gonna die"

[mint yacht]

Okay who is Nilrem?

[drifting aurora]

idk specifically. but i know skien's trip to the island was not something he would have ever gone back from

[mint yacht]

Bob wrote a letter addressed to Nilrem, warning him about the dern beast after going through gateway island

It's a Lusuco discovery

[rain saffron]

huh. Interesting.

[drifting aurora]

we don't really know. he's an enigmatic figure

[rotund gust]

random mage friend of bob’s who presumably is the one who made the fake tomb and body outside nesaak

[mint yacht]

dang

What of old man Martyn?

[rotund gust]

if we assume bob isn’t dead and the reincarnation is just a manifeston of the 3 animals power, he could’ve also been the one to set up the reincarnation fight. but bob being alive is just a theory

[hybrid gazelle]

Dont worry with my homebrew brain I can make Nilrem

[rotund gust]

life series lore

[mint yacht]

Bob sacrificed his soul to try and contain the dern beast

[drifting aurora]

nilrem was the friends we made along the way

[hybrid gazelle]

Friend... DELTARUNE REFERENCE???

[mint yacht]

Also why do we have so little about Tisaun? He seems cool

[drifting aurora]

we have a decent bit about him through some festival dialogue

[rotund gust]

chat what do we think about gateway islands portal

[hybrid gazelle]

this is my design for Nilrem

here my homebrew lore

"Nilrem was the first among his people to contact the people in the province that he would know as Wynn. Just like any of his people, he would find opportunities to exploit the desperation of the people of the wartorn world by giving them magical knowledge for them to use to fight against the horror of war. He would easily become rich with emeralds as he taught the people more.

One faithful day, no matter the amount of riches he has could have protected him from what was to come. The undead would attack his caravan and are about to end him. The hero of Wynn would come to his aid and save him from certain death with no expectation of reward. Confused by this incompressible heroism, Nilrem befriended the hero and was changed by him. Now no longer teaches the people of Wynn for profit, he teaches it for them to thrive in the harshness that life puts them in.

After spending more time in the Wynn province, he would come upon a series of letters sent by his dear friend. He would long to forget its contents but for the sake of his friend, he did everything the letter told him to do. Fake the body and create a tomb to bury it, making his sacrifice unknown to the world. He would continue to help the people of Wynn province until he finally retired in Nessak where he watched over the would-be hero in doing the trials that he set up for the future Hero of Wynn as he still reminisces about the time he spent with his friend, Bob."

[mint yacht]

im sad I cant go back after doing the quest

[regal spire]

Is Nilrem still alive? (before I check every bit of missed festival dialogue )

[drifting aurora]

https://wynncraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Message_in_a_Bottle
this has 2 things from tisaun that are interesting

[drifting aurora]

oh theres nothing on nilrem. i was talking about tisaun

[regal spire]

Oh, lol, nvm then

I love how there are little bits of potential put around the world, like Dullahan’s door and Tisauns Monument

[mint yacht]

Was he the founder of the Sodeta guild?

[regal spire]

Gives just that little bit of a necessary drive to theorize

Also, this is something I’ve wanted to know more about for a while, but does anyone have any extra info on the void altar?

I’ve been wanting to learn about all the little items you can give it

[rain saffron]

ooo! Cooking frfr

[rotund gust]

speaking of potential i think it would be really funny if the company backing siegfried was actually gavel excavation. i have no evidence for this i just think it would be cool

[drifting aurora]

there are the two interactions people have documented for it, but beyond that i'm not sure there's much more

[rotund gust]

wait what void altar

[hybrid gazelle]

PLEASE CT MAKE NILREM A VILLAGER AND MY LIFE IS YOUR

wynncraft really need more named character that still alive and not human LOL

[regal spire]

There’s an altar down in the void that can be offered a couple items, like a that void quill and the “follow the wind” bracelet

[rotund gust]

where in the void. I feel like i know what your talking about but i don’t remember exactly

[regal spire]

I haven’t offered it a morrowind, but I don’t think it does anything

[hybrid gazelle]

making Nilrem a vilalger also would add so mcuh like what I did with my homebrew lore

[drifting aurora]

it's close to the one discovery i think

[rotund gust]

oh, okay yeah i know what your talking about

[regal spire]

Honestly, I thought I knew where it was, when I last tried to find it, but I haven’t found it again in a while lmao

[hybrid gazelle]

also here some udpate on ROL rewrite

[drifting aurora]

The mechanism within your bracelet spins wildly, then abruptly stops. You feel there might be something to find here... but not yet.

[rotund gust]

it has a special interacting with 100% mythic rolls, you gotta trust

it won’t eat your mythics i promise

[regal spire]

Please, more secret discoveries that give you that feeling of being lost out sea, stranded on an island

[drifting aurora]

you must drop your mythic and then /class and when you return the altar will transform. trust

[rotund gust]

so true

you have to drop bank page of stx on it and /class

[regal spire]

I LOVE feeling hopeless (lmao) in games. Like, completely and totally lost with no hope of getting back (there is an exit in the corner)

[rain saffron]

-# 👀

[regal spire]

Like the secret Warick scroll areas (I forgot his name)

[rain saffron]

THIS

[mint yacht]

do those still exist?

[drifting aurora]

gawrick

[regal spire]

Mhm, I found one not long ago

[rotund gust]

wait actually lex while your here, is the old man in the teleport scroll easter eggs a chrono trigger reference or am i insane

[drifting aurora]

idk i wasnt involved with its addition

[mint yacht]

I thought they replaced the scrolls with the juggle teleport in cinfras

[rotund gust]

fuuuuc i need to know if im crazy or not

[drifting aurora]

the scrolls got replaced with being able to just talk to gawrick directly in his house for him to tp you the same way

[mint yacht]

ah. thank you

[regal spire]

Was that old mage in the one gawrick scroll location referencing being watched by the eye? Or TNA? Or just something else entirely

[rotund gust]

lmao we were talking about that last night

bro just like cyrus pokemon frfr

[drifting aurora]

i like writing the dark beast's dialogue. it speaks in very short and blunt sentences

[rotund gust]

i love how they contrast with orphion in the light forest secret. it’s so blunt about how it’s winning while orphion is a lot vaguer

[regal spire]

Orphion speaks in a weird, vague, riddle-like manner. Good to have that overly verbose chump get neg diffed by the stoically reformed, strategically confident dernic beast

[rotund gust]

orphion be like “i’m not worried :)” meanwhile the parasite the decay and the canyon colossus in gavel alone

[drifting aurora]

well he's not worried about the parasite specifically (in the moment of the cutscene) because he thinks he has sealed himself away perfectly so it cannot reach him

[rotund gust]

i mean yeah, but there’s other problems going on at the same time

“i’ll be fine” the ahms region is gone orphion

[regal spire]

Dern beast: what’s that behind you? 🫵😧

[drifting aurora]

he's got it covered. trust him.

[rotund gust]

i’m not sure i do, bro got neg diffed by a bug

[pearl osprey]

I mean

We also get neg diffed by parasite's hitbox

[rotund gust]

so true, but also aren’t the embodiment of light, we’re just some guy

[rocky smelt]

Were dullahan and lari a thing
Got some weird vibes from them

[regal spire]

They were roommates back in ASU (Aldorei State University)

[rocky smelt]

[hybrid gazelle]

Nope they are just friend

[rotund gust]

why is this the reoccurring question on this channel 😭

nothing in game says one way or the other if lari and dulla were a thing, CT say lari is ace. Make of that what you will

[rustic nexus]

erm moderators

<@&268142859327242242>

[rotund gust]

https://tenor.com/view/mrbeast-ytpmv-rap-battle-squid-game-squid-game-vs-mrbeast-gif-25491394

[rustic nexus]

guys... why is the filter for these scams not applied to this channel...
it works on #🌎wynncraft, why isn't it on this channel too

[rotund gust]

new channel so they haven’t messed with it too much 🤷‍♂️

[rustic nexus]

it should be like, number one priority to make new channels have the same automatic moderation as every other channel

[hexed nova]

mr least

[rotund gust]

there’s also only like maybe 10 people who frequent this channel, if we get scammed its survival of the fittest

the lore people should be smart enough to avoid Mr. Yeast on our own

[split verge]

people losing their accounts to phishing attempts in the year of our lord 2025

[rotund gust]

i know multiple real life people who have lost discord accounts to the “i think i may have exposed you to a virus, here’s a link to discord support” -> fake account “we’re discord give us your account details and the details to the linked email”

all of whom are grown adults

[wispy bay]

The smartest people fall for the dumbest scams bro

[rotund gust]

one of those people was my sister 💀

[wispy bay]

friend of mine got got by a Spotify voting scam 😭

[rotund gust]

that’s gonna be us in the nursing home when they need our bank account over the phone

does anyone know what marius twains magical ability is supposed to be?

[wispy bay]

Adoption

[rotund gust]

batman..

[rustic nexus]

has beta corrupted dungeon tokens gotten lore yet
some were still missing lore last I checked

[rotund gust]

no idea

[rustic nexus]

also does this confirm that dernic trees are actually called eyestalk and not dernic
because the current naming convention for tier 110 materials is lame and also wtf are they gonna do when actual dern comes out

[rotund gust]

only thing i can think of is that he has spirit magic like mael, given him binding the enslaved and the beast in the boss altar, and him talking to us as a ghost

but their aren’t blood relatives so there isn’t a link between them that way

[rustic nexus]

marius never talks to the player ?????

[rotund gust]

in the ult secret doesn’t his ghost say something? could’ve sworn

[rustic nexus]

no like, in the cutscene, at his funeral, after everyone leaves his spirit shows up and has a chat with mael

saying he has to remain to train somebody, aka bob

[rotund gust]

oh, then idfk. only magic feat we have from him is binding the boss altar

[rustic nexus]

yeah I have no idea what he's meant to do, magically speaking lmao

[rotund gust]

and maybe good with runes? considering ToL refers to rune magic as twain magic, and none of the 4 main kids use runes that we see

[hybrid gazelle]

His magic is being a single father

[rustic nexus]

lmao

[rotund gust]

https://tenor.com/view/test-gif-2341822946696656132

[rustic nexus]

hmm likely

[hybrid gazelle]

Ethe on his way to have magic during corruption war and receive no lore at all

[rotund gust]

3/4 of bobs masters in their way to receive little to no lore

[hybrid gazelle]

Bob should habe at least go to dernel jungle

Or at least hint the fact he has interact with something olmic

I feel like curiosity about how olmic side should be what get him to find out about Dern

[rotund gust]

mael teaching him archery is really funny considering the Mael we see in the twain related quests and cutscenes has no link to archery

[hybrid gazelle]

It such??? Ever like I know you want to subvert expectation but like now you got this guy Ethe who do fucking nothing

[rotund gust]

i don’t even remember the names of the dagger and spear teacher tbh

[hybrid gazelle]

Wynncraft when they could easily connect the lore easily without any problem(it not shit enough, they have to overcomplciate it)

[rotund gust]

bob on his way to train with 3 absolute nobodies and one spirit medium past his prime

[hybrid gazelle]

How the fuck momo even know of the guy lmao

I think Bob lore mostly fine until you get to specific

It even got character development too Whcih is fine and good but Yeha specific is bad

I literally have no idea what purpose of animal companion is like why Bob be sending his friend on a purpose to kill by some nobody

Also Nilrem constructing Bob tomb in middle of fucking nowhere

[rotund gust]

was mael even alive when he taught bob

[hybrid gazelle]

I find it bully shit Ragni people did not run to build their own Bob tomb in their own city his brith place

[remote river]

Chak and Fier respectively

[hybrid gazelle]

Yes Mael Alice and by the time he finish teaching Bob, he did

[rotund gust]

this is why my goat Siegfried is the superior hero

never lost a battle, never dies, always happy to see his fans

he even sells merch, bob never sold merch

[rotund gust]

yeah those two. Bob trained with random nobodies 😭

[cloud phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/who-da-fook-conor-mcgregor-who-the-fuck-gif-12856313

[rotund gust]

also wait how did marius know bob was coming. Did he have like future sight or something

[wispy bay]

he has adoption super power that tells him about all adoptable people in the timeline

[remote river]

This probably changed since the last time I checked, but wasn’t Marius just a rich guy who adopted magical children and trained them to use their powers?

[lean ether]

I would like to make mention of the fact how absolutely tragically written the whole thing in Ragni about Bob is

like, genuine wattpad-tier writing

[rotund gust]

he had magic of some kind but it’s not stated what. assumedly he bound the two spirits in prison of souls (could’ve been mael aswell i suppose) and he knew bob would come ahead of time when he tell mael to wait for him

[lean ether]

In the last chapter or two out of fucking nowhere two sentences out written out in first person and it hits you like a truck

[rotund gust]

and he might’ve used rune magic, since bak’al refers to runes as twain magic when you break CoW out of his area in AHC

and none of the 4 twain kids are associated with runes

[crimson ridge]

can we talk about the political and economic state of the world right now

[lean ether]

where is that mentioned btw, that marius knew? in ragni?

[crimson ridge]

yo lowkey can we talk about how bak'al looks like he's half grian and half salted. Scary.

[lean ether]

RAHH 15 SECOND SLOWMODE
should be 10

[rotund gust]

in twains downfall marius talks with mael after everyone else leaves

[wispy bay]

hes already dead so

maybe thats why he knows

[rotund gust]

i guess, but its better than nothing when trying to assume what magic he had

[wispy bay]

rich

[rotund gust]

there’s also the fact that people thought he was immortal (he wasn’t) so maybe he extended his life magically?

heres his wiki profile

“powerful magic user” what magic

[lean ether]

generally I suppose
wynn doesn't have that hard of a magic system I think

[remote river]

The magic of wealth is truly powerful

[lean ether]

I think it's fine we don't know a whole lot about Marius

[rotund gust]

wynn, as far as it seems, operates in something akin to d&d. you can learn magic, you can also be born with it. Everyone we see born with it has affinity for some type, like the twains, while people born without like bob struggle to learn it and use general magic (with his wand)

[lean ether]

and with the connection to bob as much as I think it's terribly outdated and the ragni library is horribly written I think like maybe 50% of that happened to the letter still

it is after all called a legend and part of why it sounds so ridiculous at part (like the agreed upon matricide) is because this is not meant to be anywhere near literal

[lean ether]

counterpoint: the player can do basically anything while being born with it

[rotund gust]

i mean, i think the point i’m making still rings true. The ragni library goes out of its way to say magic was the hardest for bob to learn, and he uses general spells when fighting bak’ll

[lean ether]

and also bob was most likely born with it because he's olm

[rotund gust]

player could be cursed like tasim 🤷‍♂️

[lean ether]

cursed is a fruman euphemism, it's not an actual curse

it's just being magically proficient by being born with it

[rotund gust]

i know, i’m just saying like, we don’t know what the player was born with. So like they could be magically proficient if we choose mage

[lean ether]

yeah but like arrow storm and shit are clearly spells idk it seems to be that in the context of fruma the player is indeed cursed

[rotund gust]

idk, i saw someone float the idea that being “cursed” just means being able to use magic without a staff. that’s why bob needs one

[lean ether]

although! knowing magic alone isn't enough to excercise it well - the reason the twains were got together is to learn to use their innate magical skills

[rotund gust]

doesn’t quite explain how aledar is able to use charge in AJB without holding a dagger though

[lean ether]

that is an extremely weird interpretation imo it feels far more natural to say that "cursed" is a fruma-specific term propagated by the upper classes to spread the idea that it's only them that can do magic because they're divine

like it's obviously that, right? idk

[rotund gust]

i know, i’m just using cursed since it’s the only term we have. If the twains were born in fruma they’d probably be cursed

cursed = born with magic.
so being cursed means you can use magic innately without conduits or items

since tasim heals aledar in recover the past without a weapon/magical component

[lean ether]

true, and I suppose the player actually does need one?
then again aledar charges without one

so I would honestly go with being able to use magic at all, it's just that some have it easier than others to learn to use that innate skill

[rotund gust]

yeah, it’s just weird that wynn draws a strange distinction about some people being born with magic and some not

atleast among humans

[lean ether]

I think there's a bit of looking through layers to be done in Wynn
as in - not everything that the games tells you is true about the world, but all of it is true about what people believe about the world

[rotund gust]

and why the twains even have elemental affinities. If they were all born magically proficient then it would’ve made more sense for all 4 to just learn ice magic to beat the corruption

[lean ether]

so like - the legend of bob isn't an actual retelling of events, it's a legend in-universe and the weird shit like the matricide thing probably didn't actually happen

and similarily I don't think there's an actual divide between people who are innately magically able and those who aren't -- I think all are, just to differing degrees

anyone can come to grookwarts and everyone leaves knowing some sort of magic

[rotund gust]

grookwarts destroys any sense of a magic system for wynn for a harry potter reference and i hate it

[lean ether]

it's way more of a soft magic system that the game likes to tell us tbh

or it's probably a hard magic system whose attitude toward itself is kinda "yeahhh fuck it"

[rotund gust]

they give us multiple hints towards different hard magic systems and then never elaborate which one their using

[lean ether]

cosmic magic is I think the most soft

"look at rock too long you go crazy AHH"

the actual mechanics are undiscussed

[rotund gust]

i fw cosmic magic since they don’t try to half ass explain it. they leave it a mystery in it’s entirety

[lean ether]

also the mention of cosmic magic allows me to sneak in a mention of the theory that emeralds are also space rocks from meteors

[rotund gust]

i think it would be really funny if fruma used a different currency, since emeralds as a currency seem to be related to villagers in universe

[lean ether]

gavel bombarded by meteors -> heavily abundant in emeralds -> villagers dig them all -> trip balls over them
SE mountains bombarded by meteors -> heavily abundant in emeralds -> olm dig them all -> trip balls over them in the jungle

[rotund gust]

i like that the meteors individual effects are all theorized. Purple and blue are theorized to be order and chaos. but the others are left to interpretation

[lean ether]

I have to retract that the olm didn't trip balls over the emeralds specifically but they did trip balls

[rotund gust]

if a wynnic excavation is to be believed they didn’t even bring the SE meteors with them to dernal 🤷‍♂️

just left them in the SE for humans to find and eventually hide away

they tripped out over eyeballs

[drifting aurora]

this comes down to being super old lore tbh

itd be nice to give bob lore as a whole some attention

[rotund gust]

do a bob rewrite after the inevitable wynnex rewrite

hmmm, i wonder what that was. A big body of images that got deleted in a split second sent by an account i’d never seen before. hmmmmm it’s almost like the auto mod got turned on after Someone. pointed it out 💀

[lean ether]

bob library gotta get redone fr

[rotund gust]

bobs everything gotta get redone. Make his two quests more than just fetch quests with one boss fight at the end 😭

atleast make it so i don’t have get the climbing helmet by beating ice nations for reincarnation

[wispy bay]

At least let us use the helmet without doing the quest

I was gonna do TOL on my other account for fun but u literally need the quest to use the helmet

[rotund gust]

I just grabbed multiple copies of all the ToL stuff and stored it after i did it the first time so i wouldn’t need to go back. i did the same for the reincarnation stuff but i ran out of baabs wool on my last playthrough and had to go to maro for more

[wispy bay]

Smart

[rotund gust]

well i didn’t grab multiple old toronto hides, i was broke my first playthrough

[rustic nexus]

oh my god @hybrid gazelle
THEY STILL EXIST

[regal spire]

Does anyone remember listening/reading on the origins of class spells, and they had the explanation for assassins vanish spell being “concentrating on the particles that move through the air, as they are what hold together the very fabric of our reality. When these particles hit just right, you are given an opportunity; a moment to cut through the fabric of our reality, and slip through the air, rendering yourself invisible to everyone around you”

[wispy bay]

Bro killed the dern beast

[regal spire]

Alive island Dern beasts my beloved paradox

[dim plover]

Where was this

[spring kernel]

HUH??? weren't they renamed

[rustic nexus]

the ones in the quest still are like that...

[unique jungle]

dern beast

[rotund gust]

i thought got renamed what

don’t forget that is also the same quest with guy named cinfras 😭

[regal spire]

Really old wiki forums post on the lore of Wynn

I think this was around the time—maybe a bit after—when Wynn had no humans and only villagers

[lean ether]

I remember seeing a very similar definiton of teleport

[lean ether]

although definitely not that old I wasn't here around then lol

[regal spire]

It took a while for it to be archived, but I do distinctly remember some pink named dragon guy talking about it with me, and then finding the wiki archive of some Bob training montages

[lean ether]

pink named dragon guy may be chaosdragon

[regal spire]

Whatever happened to Travis

[unique jungle]

real

all the old good wynners are gone (slowmode moment)

[dim plover]

Hi

[rotund gust]

i think i came up with a better name then eaten dern or consumed dern

[rain stream]

In the WynnExcavation Questline why does the King throw the Crystals in the Lava to destroy them, while the Red Crystal has been submerged in Lava for ages?

WynnExcavation Site E Quest confirmed?

[remote river]

A popular theory back in the day (may still be popular) is that the King of Ragni didn't destroy them

[rotund gust]

it is still popular

[remote river]

We were told that Wynnexcavation has their grip on even kings

And the sister company Gavelexcavtion still exists

[rain stream]

And then there is FrumaExcavation

[hybrid gazelle]

Don’t question it

[hexed nova]

Obviously it’s because items always burn in item form regardless of their physical powers!

[hybrid gazelle]

Yes but Ragni king willingly work with us and tell us info about how they are still around even without Amadel

[rain stream]

We don't even know whether Amadel is the rook or the pawn.

Also the King could be held at gunpoint to tell lies or he just don't know shit

[hybrid gazelle]

So far we have no evidence of Ragni king being puppet for Wynnex like Troms king did, it very likely he did not give out to work with Wynnex

And there literally no benefit of telling player thst Wynnex still around

[rain stream]

A big Company like WynnEx have tons of way to manipulate a King, even not directly

Like manipulating the price, the Economy,...

[hybrid gazelle]

Okay but have you got evidence tho

The evidence we have suggest more thst the king still against Wynnex and not work with them

You are talk about the IF without substiant evidence in the game thst suggest Ragni king to be working with Wynnex

Troms king even said he was am fighting against Wynnex before giving up

[rain stream]

No I do not says he is working for WynnEx

I just say the King is under certain pressure that stops him from saying the whole truth

[hybrid gazelle]

What pressure? Amadel recently dead and Wynnex is scatter and recovering

Even then thst god Wynnex rewrite someday, this quest is old and wrinkle

[rain stream]

Because look, he threw the Heat-resistant crystal into Lava

Assume it is intentional, then there are things we don't know

[hybrid gazelle]

Look I appreciate you try to look deeper into the story but like this is also same quest mf saying how he destroy crystal even tho it’s clear Therr like big ass chunk of them somewhere