#Remove the weekly time limit for the Abyss.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fading tendon
#

  1. SUMMARY:
    Request to remove weekly Abyss Time Gating to allow players more freedom in PvP.

  2. MAIN ISSUE:
    Azphelumbra Daevas!
    First of all, I’d like to introduce myself. I’m Adartaer — a long-time MMORPG enthusiast with over 20 years of experience. But above all, I’m an Aion player — I’ve spent more than 12 years of my life in this game.

Today, I’d like to draw attention to one specific topic: PvP, or more precisely — The Abyss.
We already know from the KR/TW versions that The Abyss is time-gated on a weekly basis with the option to extend it, but in my opinion that’s not enough for those who want to focus almost exclusively on PvP.

I believe this is a huge mistake, and I’ll explain why in a moment.

Not long ago, we saw a similar approach in other NC Soft games, such as Blade & Soul NEO or Throne and Liberty, and I believe this approach is simply wrong — because PvP is an inseparable part of every MMORPG.
Don’t get me wrong — I truly understand that "times have changed", that "PvP can sometimes be toxic", and so on. But please also try to understand us — the PvP players — that there are people who enjoy this Content and want to spend their time in the game exclusively in the Abyss or other PvP-related activities.

Some people will probably say things like:

"The game isn’t out yet."
"But there will be Arenas."
"etc."

I agree — but as I mentioned earlier, knowing today’s trends and looking at previous NC Soft titles, we can assume that the plan is the same for the global version as it is for the Korean and Taiwanese versions. To keep it with restrictions.

Now let me tell you something — no one is forcing you to take part in it. You won’t be "forced" into PvP like in the old days. There will be separate PvE and PvP Gear, and there won’t be Open-World PvP as before. The Abyss will be a separate instanced zone accessible through a portal, just like all the new PvP maps in Aion Classic — so you can simply ignore it if you wish.

Besides, I think we can all agree that Aion is deeply associated with PvP, and that Aion simply cannot exist without PvP. Limiting PvP means stripping away a part of the game’s very identity.

Let me say this one more time so it’s perfectly clear: we are not asking for the return of Open-World PvP as it used to be. We fully understand that “times have changed.” All we ask for is the removal of unnecessary restrictions.

  1. POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS:
    A) Instead of limiting the hourly weekly entry limit access to the Abyss, let's introduce weekly limits on earning Abyss Points in order to 'prevent' or 'slow down' the acquisition of PvP Gear.
fading tendon
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Remove the 7-hours weekly time limit for the Abyss.

meager lichen
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I believe the 7 Hour Limit is in place due to the Abyss Skill Upgrades and Passives.
Removing the limitation would allow players to farm whenever they want and complete the Tree sooner than anticipated.

It's not just a simple as removing the 7 hour timer, many other systems need to be adjusted to accomodate this change.

fading tendon
# meager lichen I believe the 7 Hour Limit is in place due to the Abyss Skill Upgrades and Passi...

Hello, "old friend" ^^
Of course, I fully agree with you. I didn’t include some of my thoughts in my post because it was already too long. I just wanted to point out the "problem," and I still maintain that something needs to be done, because if there is too little PvP in the game—especially in a game from Aion IP—it will have a very negative impact on the game. From my side, I did what I thought was right (before it's too late) out of respect and love for Aion; the rest is in NC Soft’s hands.

calm marsh
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The limits are there for a reason, mostly because there are people who can farm 24/7 and people who can't because they have responsibilities irl and so on. Having unlimited time in abyss would allow sweatlords to reach max grade pvp gear a lot quicker than the rest of the population, where it would create a massive imbalance and cryout. I agree pvp is a big part of the game and i do enjoy it myself when it's balanced and i think 7 hours a week is more than enough considering majority of players won't even use it up most of the time. Also don't forget you can extend the time using the items you can get ingame like in throne. Another factor devs have to take into consideration is player burnout. Humans are weird creatures and sometimes we can't feel the healthy limits and once you burnout you start seeing only the bad things about the game and after that people will most likely quit. Anyway i think 7 hours a week in one content is more than enough considering there will be tons of other content to enjoy once it runs out.

fading tendon
# calm marsh The limits are there for a reason, mostly because there are people who can farm ...

I don’t agree with you, but of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion 🙂

I truly believe that, of course, it’s just one of many factors, but I still think that a problem affecting the longevity of today’s MMORPG games is the limitation of PvP.

What does PvE give you?
New Expansion>Clear Dungeons/Raids and then "complain" about having nothing to do in the game. Notice that in games like WoW or FF players often take breaks between expansions and come back when a new raid comes out.

And what does PvP give you?
PvP give a thrill and sense of uncertainty. Players compete with each other and even when there is nothing to do in the game they just fight all day with each others to prove who is the best. Now 90% of new MMORPG games have given up on the Open World PvP because PvE players keep saying it's a niche and all that's left are PvE Scripted Fights and PvE Mechanics which you can just memorize...people are unpredictable, scripts are not...

But yeah time will tell who was right 😉

calm marsh
# fading tendon I don’t agree with you, but of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion ...

Well, if im not wrong, nc repeatedly mentioned that Aion 2 is going to be PvE focused game (lets be real like 80% of casual mmorpg players are pve focused) so i guess they will keep introducing new PvE content regularly so people wouldn't run out of things to do. I have 4.6k hours played in throne and most of it i've spent in hc PvP guilds and believe me a lot of people do burn out of constant PvP. I have nothing against people who wants to do only one content non stop in a game that has to offer so much more and quit it after few months though.

native cairn
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While I agree that those limits helps limit the gap between players that can play the game for a long time and those who can't, I believe that limiting the access to content isn't necessary the only way to approach this issue.

By restricting access to specific content - and more broadly a specific type of content, you are, in a way, forcing some players out of the game that they may want to enjoy it (only), and that is an issue that will come bite the game at a later point when some of those players will try to bypass the system by creating more characters and effectively try to maintain multiple main characters instead of one. That is how you create player fatigue and lead them to burn out. Limiting access to too many content will always be an issue.

I think that a better approach for NC would be to hold specific catch-up events. That way, you can tailor those events on what the community needs rather than put an arbitrary restriction on content that some people want to enjoy.

Going back on the topic of the abyss, I'm not entirely against it IF either rifting can make it up for it, or extending time spent in the abyss doesn't cost you too many hours of farm in it.

fading tendon
autumn owl
#

You got battlegrounds, arenas, abyss, night pvp, faction pvp, riftstones, boonstones, dungeon stones, god knows what else

naive epoch
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People’s replies show that they haven’t read the full thing, yes there’s arenas but why limit open world PvP? The sweatlords will get the gear fast, ok then put a limit of the weekly AP you can farm don’t restrict the zone!!

autumn owl
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No one goes to the abyss to pvp for free. At least in TL

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Rewards are important. Otherwise you will get empty abyss. So might as well save server load and restrict the area

#

Abyss is interserver and will heavily impact server load and stability depending on number of players inside it

fading tendon
# autumn owl PvP is 24 hours all the week in TL. Same thing in Aion2.

I'm sorry but I think you don’t understand what PvP means to us "PvP players".

Seeing what you’re writing now, I’m convinced of it — because for PvP players, PvP rewards are secondary; our main reward is the opportunity to fight.

PvP, in our view, means first of all: "Open World PvP whenever we want" — but as we know, we won’t have that. Just because a game has a lot of "PvP Content" doesn’t mean there’s actually a lot of PvP in the game.

calm marsh
native cairn
# fading tendon I would suggest an even simpler solution. Instead of restricting access to the C...

That would just shift the limit elsewhere.

Honestly, I don't agree with having a direct limit on the system at all. Simply having a daily/weekly PvP quest there would pretty much do the job, without having to put an actual restriction. It gives enough incentive for all rounder players to come at least for some time, while keeping the system free of any restriction for those who want to enjoy more.

autumn owl
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They can still provide open world pvp instance of the sub server like they used to do in BDO. But again not in the abyss cuz that's interserver and the infrastructure might very much need such a time limit

native cairn
zenith pollen
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I have no opinion on this topic yet, need to See the Full scale of the Game and its Content first before I can judge if it needs any changes or not. If there Are other good options to have small scale PvP I dont think I will mind the Limit

fading tendon
autumn owl
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If say for example we have 3 populated servers full of hardcore pvp guilds and the rotation comes to put them together, the abyss will explode while they fight 24h idk how exactly it will work but I guess the developers put this type of limit for a reason

fading tendon
dapper vine
autumn owl
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Yeah pvp sub servers should be back

#

The abyss is more like a weekly interserver event that needs to be refreshed with server rotations and other technical details

fading tendon
calm marsh
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oh I remember those 5 fps battles where my pc nearly exploded because of the amount of people in one place on that engine totally not designed to accommodate that 😄

fading tendon
# calm marsh oh I remember those 5 fps battles where my pc nearly exploded because of the amo...

Yes, and that is why, due to technical limitations, NC Soft later decided in Aion Classic to 'move' the Sieges to instanced maps, which was good for the players at the time. I believe that nowadays, with current technology, this would no longer be necessary, but even so, they should do it in such a way that others do not have to participate if they do not want to, just do not take away that pleasure from those who want to take part in it.

zenith pollen
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ok but sieges have nothing to do with the 7 hour abyss limitation tho. sieges is a whole separate topic we know nothing about.
i think having limited time in a space increases the stakes, which is kinda good for pvp. you have to tryhard more & be efficient & smart with your time & if you die its more annoying, so it will lead to more heated battles.
i remember in elyon, there you also had limited farm time on different maps and some maps even had limited times of entry. but the amount of action and friction this created was great & good for the game, that otherwise didnt have the best open pvp 24/7 map.
so thats why i said earlier i think its just too early to make such demands without having the full picture of whats in the game for us pvpers

fading tendon
# zenith pollen ok but sieges have nothing to do with the 7 hour abyss limitation tho. sieges is...

If you are also a PvP player like a few of us here, believe me my friend, it is better to start talking about it sooner.

As I mentioned in the first post, we've had a few examples of the NC Soft games over just a few years.

Throne and Liberty - was advertised as a PvP game, they started introducing changes to "day and night cycle" if I remember correctly 5 hours of day and 2 hours of night during closed tests were changed to 4 hours of day and 1 hour of night due to players complaining about too much PvP (I might not remember the exact numbers anymore). The final nail in the coffin was the introduction of Nebula Island with a weekly time limit, at a moment when players were already disappointed and expecting the loudly-advertised RvR content, but got this instead. And where is the game today?

Blade & Soul NEO - ask the players or type B&S NEO Arena into YouTube to see why players were so angry at NC Soft (besides, CM Rownen knows something about this, because he was in Crimson Legion Faction during Faction Event if I remember correctly). And where is the game today?

Aion Classic - TOP 3-4 MMORPGs in Korea for the first 3 or 4 years after launch. Laphsaran was an instanced, unrestricted PvP map and that was good, then they introduced a new map Teven which is weekly time limited, just like Nebula in Throne and Liberty or Abyss in Aion 2. And where is Aion Classic in Korea today? It dropped to 15th or 16th place in the Korean GameMecca Ranking in MMORPG category. Coincidence?

calm orchid
#

@fading tendon i think for anyone that has not played Aion back in the days to understand what large scale fanction pvp was, it's hard to comprehend this. 5 fps battles with 1k people but we would still go at it. It was all about that pvp ranking getting to 1 star, then 2 stars, then 5 star officer, then army general... No MMO came close to having a pvp system similar to aion.

We just want that back. Unrestricted. Whether its abyss or tia eye. all unrestricted pvp.

molten lodge
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Nebula Island make me feel sick and burnout and one of the reason why i drop TnL. While Abyss in original Aion keep me in game longer.

dapper vine
molten lodge
# dapper vine Same here

Didn you played retail Aion on Asmo side In Royal Legion guild? Nick seems familiar, but maybe i confuse it with someone else?

dapper vine
molten lodge
# dapper vine Yes

Then we were there together i was Gladiator named Typhoon back then 😄

honest fable
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Gatekeeping is the biggest cancer of modern MMOs. If I'm not at work, kids are at school, I want to do the content I want to do. Do you want to make it fair? Just gradually decrease drop rates / earned points proportionally to time played (>4h - 10% less, >6h - 20% less, >8h - 40% less etc.). But STOP deciding what and how much I should play.

molten lodge
honest fable
molten lodge
#

Battle/premium passes are harmless comparing to gatekeeping content. So i happy to pay for them as well.

zenith pollen
vast ether
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I agree in principle based on my Aion experience as I am strongly against this arbitrary limit but I also want to see how they implement abyss cause it might work differently to what we think. The fact is though that I despised nebula island in TL for its time limit, and as a result I didn't bother with it at all. This was the only way to avoid negative emotions associated with this mode.

peak jewel
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+1

Time limited PvPvE zones push people into spending 100% of their limited time farming mobs in that zone which kills the PvP. Happened in every single MMORPG so far. Will happen in this one too and there is already limited PvP content in this game, don't take away a huge one by limiting it to x hours per week.

knotty coyote
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i mean..couldnt they just put limits on the amount of rewards and pvp currency you could farm and still let you pvp?

flat jungle
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Limiting the time forces people to put efficient farming over fun, thats not what a game should be.

hollow bear
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@fading tendon Hey, I'm totally disagree with AP gain timegating. Please remove this suggestion. It's much better to make this content open 24/7 and that's it. Wanna play and do pvp go and play, time gating is a reason of player burnouts.

As i heard the time for the Abyss will dropped from the mobs and also refillable via AP shop

fading tendon
stoic cosmos
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I agree that the time limit should be removed and instead cap the amount of points/coins/gear etc on a weekly basis. That way, both camps are happy.

zenith pollen
honest fable
versed sinew
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Just take the approach from throne. Can get X amount of tokens per week and use them to get rewards. And then you add something like the chests on saurodama which give you a permanent incentive to go to that place and fight for extra stuff

spiral valve
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Make the time unlimited but put a cap for the exp etc. You get

rain jackal
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At global release, remove the limits. In an MMORPG, we come to experience a sense of freedom, not to be constantly restricted to keep a business running! In Korea and Taiwan, they've killed the rifts .
So I spend my time in the Abyss, and when I run out of time, I log off to play another game. Say so if you want players to go elsewhere !

#

Many Aion players love PvP, which is the basic of the game , even without AP, we will PvP because that's what a PvP player is all about !

fading tendon
#

up

#

Remove the weekly time limit for the Abyss.

zenith pollen
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the cap might aswell not exist and never was an issue in TW / KR. you get so many cap reset items & with the sub you have more than enough hours in the abyss. it also gets split between middle and lower abyss layer etc.
all in all i m still at the opinion that this is not an issue, there are more relevant issues.

limber solar
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I really don't know how people manage to fishing their abyss time

gusty river
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You can refresh your PVP timer with an item you get so many mats for if you PVP, most people don’t even realise it’s time gated because they aren’t in there enough. I don’t think this is an issue when you get so many of the refresh mats and they are cheap to craft