Will M's GRF Things

[sly creek]

The politics of this area are Not Good but I didn't move here for good politics.

I moved here because it was affordable.

[echo bay]

i dont see any benefit to being unusually politcally informed

[sly creek]

Right now there isn't. Locally I need to keep an eye out so I can show up and give support for things like building electricity infrastructure.

Apparently controversial out here 🙃

[echo bay]

oh yeah local stuff is more interesting tbh

[sly creek]

"Lincolnshire Against Needless Destruction" say that instead of pylons they should dig up the ground to bury electrical supply cables.

[echo bay]

but nationally its just a case of either voting for a centrist in red or getting some degree of right wing nut job in blue, purple or turquoise

[sly creek]

Tragically in the UK you cannot currently vote for a Maoist.

[echo bay]

well you can according to the telegraph

[sly creek]

Or anyone who will do what the country needs (BUILD HOUSES, OH GOD JUST BUILD SOME FUCKING HOUSES)

[sly creek]

The telegraph makes politicians sound so much cooler than they actually are 🙁

Give us Red Ed Redemption.

[echo bay]

i think the new generic white man from labour wants to build more houses

[sly creek]

He does want to build more houses, but not too many!

[echo bay]

so they can be sold off to international companies because we have no laws stopping people without a passport buying proprty here

[echo bay]

right???

[sly creek]

Build some houses so that housing costs go down so that people can afford to do more with their money than survive.

Oh and put the sulphur back in the boat fuel.

[echo bay]

the housing costs will go down for black rock

and landlords

[sly creek]

fucking LIE

it's NOT IDLING

STOP REVVING IT

[echo bay]

this is one thing i like about denmark, outside of copenhagen the house prices are cheaper than here

[olive lily]

I need this put its the popping of a 313 spirax valve

[echo bay]

idk what's going on in london

[echo bay]

ahahaha

[sly creek]

If Rugby still has a Thunderbird in the bay platforms I should go there and just record 3 hours of Rugby station ambience.

I will get arrested for doing it but it'll be worth it.

[echo bay]

what'd they even arrest you for

not saying they wouldnt tho

justice system in this country is a joke

[sly creek]

Leaving a zoom recorder on the platform on a little tripod and watching it from 30 metres away? Oh, whatever they felt like honestly.

[echo bay]

30 is a bit far

someone will nick it before you even have a chance of being arrested

[sly creek]

Rugby always felt like a very safe station to me.

[echo bay]

fair, i aint been there but i cant imagine just leaving something more than a few M from me like that

unless i knew literally no one was around

[olive lily]

I've only been to rugby briefly when changing but I've always liked that the platforms are red brick, makes them look a little nicer compared to just asphalt

not sure when that was put in

[echo bay]

i couldnt even place it on the map tbh

[sly creek]

in the WCML upgrade

[echo bay]

my knowledge of uk geography below like, sheffield, is non existent

[olive lily]

rugby is just to the east of birmingham, and its where the wcml splits, one going into bham via coventry, and then one avoiding bham

[echo bay]

ive been south a bunch of times but it was always to like

wales

or weston super mare

[sly creek]

proof that i have been to rugby

[echo bay]

ive been to london 2 times and both were during legoland holidays, it was quite nice in july of 2005

but i didnt like it so much the other time i went

too busy

[olive lily]

always loved the ews logo, for mostly furry reasons

[sly creek]

the three beasties were great, yeah

the big version ruled

[echo bay]

[sly creek]

if you hang around too long without a fursona a fursona WILL be assigned to you

[echo bay]

the EWS livrey is good tho

[sly creek]

unattended users will be asked what their favourite animal is

[echo bay]

best friend of 18 years is a furry and i am still pure

wait

18 that dosnt sound right

fuck

it might be 19

i met him whn i was in year 7

and i am 29 now

[echo bay]

swan

do your worst

failing that i am rather fond of geese and seagulls

[sly creek]

seagull would be an objectively funny fursona

[olive lily]

quite a based pick tbh, you dont see many swan sonas suprisingly

[olive lily]

I know two people with gull sonas, both play openttd lmao

[sly creek]

just go absolutely feral and start sweating profusely whenever you see someone eating chips on the street

[echo bay]

people dont like these birds because they're aggressive or bastards

i like these birds because they're aggressive or bastards

[sly creek]

swans aren't really bastards in my experience

[echo bay]

i am cursed

[sly creek]

i give them plenty of room

geese though

woof

[echo bay]

ive been walking through parks and had swans come up to be just to be cunts

[sly creek]

ask any british furry about the geese at the NEC hilton hotel

[echo bay]

like yeah, they was with their kids, but i was literally here first

they swam over to me from across a lake to be cunts

geese dont bother me at all

like

emotionally

i remember in york some guy was walking his dog and they were cornered by a fucking goose

i honked at the bastard thing and it fucked off

[vivid token]

There is a vehicle_is_flipped switch you can use for this behaviour

[olive lily]

i swear theres more goose shit on the ground than actual concrete between the hilton and resorts world. I would not step foot anywhere near in suit

[vivid token]

So trains (and horses) don't moonwalk

[echo bay]

i know my friend goes to something in manchester

[sly creek]

    {
    0: switch_{{$element}}_anim_1_curve;
    1: switch_{{$element}}_anim_4_curve;
    2: switch_{{$element}}_anim_2_curve;
    3: switch_{{$element}}_anim_3_curve;
    4: switch_{{$element}}_anim_3_curve;
    5: switch_{{$element}}_anim_2_curve;
    6: switch_{{$element}}_anim_4_curve;
    7: switch_{{$element}}_anim_1_curve;
    }```

[echo bay]

like a furry con there

[sly creek]

this was my solution

[ocean bluff]

I think I went to a Star Trek convention there once. Much geese.

[vivid token]

Oh yikes

[sly creek]

https://kentrail.uk/92031_NEC_Birmingham_12_6_2001.jpg

this pic is somehow funny to me

the shit I've seen in that car park

[vivid token]

Im in bed and barely awake im not gonna act like I understand that

[sly creek]

(lots of fire drills)

[olive lily]

[sly creek]

don't worry about it

[echo bay]

all you furries are degenerates istg

[olive lily]

also this is amazing

[sly creek]

can't hear you + planning a nice little bbq with my friends + happily married + no bitches?

[echo bay]

i was at my friends and he legit whipped out a greggs sausage roll fleshlight just to show me it

and he's one of the normaler ones

[sly creek]

hey that was a limited edition

please don't send this conversation to my boss thx

[echo bay]

THE FACT YOU KNOW ABOUT IT

[sly creek]

it's not appropriate to go into further details on the openttd discord

[olive lily]

wait until you learn about the train... actually not going to elaborate further

[sly creek]

shit there was a train wasn't there

[echo bay]

i know there's train plushies

[olive lily]

this is insanely off topic as it is sorry for ruining your grf chat will 😭

[sly creek]

Plush 🤨

Who said anything about plush

[echo bay]

oh

[echo bay]

i do wonder if either of you know him but i dont wanna like, give out his name to randoms yk

[olive lily]

my collection (has actually grown since then lmao)

[sly creek]

I don't know him, I know like six people now.

[olive lily]

ive moved house and had to stop myself from buying more simpily because i dont have any shelves to put em on yet here

[sly creek]

When you turn 30 you just find the 5 nearest, coolest people and make them your social circle.

[echo bay]

one of these haunts m

idk which

ive seen too much

[sly creek]

is one on top french?

lookin kinda RATP

[olive lily]

nah its the new dlr trains

[sly creek]

ohhhh

[olive lily]

B24 I think?

[sly creek]

don't ask me i don't fw clankers

[echo bay]

its the bombardier aventra that haunts me

the white and purple one

[sly creek]

friendly aventra

[olive lily]

good air con tho

[echo bay]

i aint been on it

i just seen the plushie or something in contexts i didnt want

[sly creek]

tch

that was a HST anyway

[olive lily]

we regularly get new hoss updates and now getting wolfp update, uk openttd fans eating good

[echo bay]

hoss?

[olive lily]

iron horse x3

[echo bay]

ooo

"x3"

this fucking emoji

[olive lily]

SORRY

[echo bay]

hahahahahaha

[olive lily]

lmfao

[sly creek]

i use :3c and :9 mostly

[echo bay]

what's the diff between :3c and normal :3

[sly creek]

:3c is raising his little kitty paw up to his mouth

[echo bay]

i just associate :3 with twinks and femboys

[sly creek]

^-^

[olive lily]

you have to use :> and ovo now you're officially a swan

[echo bay]

ooo

[sly creek]

Publish

fingies crossed nothing is fucked

i dont think I changed any vehicle IDs so upgrade should be easy

[echo bay]

oh i miss using -_- at people

[olive lily]

shall report back!

[sly creek]

i didn't write a changelog because i am a dumbfuc

[echo bay]

mood

[olive lily]

changelog
-horses no longer moonwalk
-everything else is irrelevant

[echo bay]

xd

im gonna try and go back to doing heightmap stuff, if i can focus enough

[sly creek]

check the params

[olive lily]

lmfaooooooooo

Extremely minor graphical bug, the padded cell cars have a small bit of pink on the intermediate cars where i presume the rear lamp is supposed to not be

also on the purchase menu too

other cars seem fine

[ocean bluff]

But they're underground trains
So no-one sees them. Problem solved 😛

[sly creek]

must have missed them in the processing pipeline, i'll sort it out

the tail lamp/eotd pipeline is fairly complex

[ocean bluff]

and oooh new version, will DL pronto

[olive lily]

yeah i can imagine, the results look absolutely fantastic atleast, love seeing my trains terminate and their headlights actually swapping

[sly creek]

crap probably a bunch of the tubes are messed up

i'll figure out a fix

Yeah, all tubes are bad, let me just fix that.

The way headlights work is that there are a set of unused pinks in the OpenTTD palette so I've assigned each of them a meaning (headlight, tail-light, front/rear, EOTD with steady/flashing light) and a build step goes through and recolours each model to make a "lights off" version, and then it produces a transparent overlay model for headlights front, taillights front, headlights rear, taillights rear.

Then we render the 4 light permutation models in each possible orientation and use a sprite stack to render those on top.

It adds a loooot of sprites to the render pipeline and a lot of sprites to compile but I think the results are really good.

[olive lily]

insane amount of work but 100% worth it, it looks so damn good

[sly creek]

just waiting for sprites to finish rendering and then 10 minutes to build the nml

[sly creek]

it's fixed good enough, i missed resetting the purchase sprites but you'll live for now

And new version uploaded.

[sly creek]

I blew up my working environment, let's find out how long the rebuild takes on my 2nd rate gaming PC.

[tardy ridge]

I like the idea that your command line is impressed by your sprites.

Ooooooo! 👀

[sly creek]

Making the machine sweat is my goal.

[sly creek]

it takes 4 hours to render all the sprites and 25 minutes to make the first nml build, for the curious.

[sly creek]

a bounty: if anyone can get me some rough dimensional drawings of the eurotunnel rolling stock (passenger shuttle/truck shuttle/truck driver lounge car/class 9 locomotive) i will, in addition to adding all the eurotunnel stock to the current set, give them anything they want in this stupid train set within 30 days of deliver.

private owners are annoying. i am slightly intoxicated and for the avoidance of doubt this is not a request in a professional capacity.

[olive lily]

Not great but I found this which shows length / wheel spacing

In beautiful low res

[sly creek]

no that is better than any i've seen

if it has the rolling stock (even just the bogie centers distance and the overall length) that'd be even better

[olive lily]

Sadly not, but I shall keep looking around!

[sly creek]

the rolling stock is so big that i'm fairly sure it'll break OpenTTD at the existing scale, but it's worth a try.

[olive lily]

This one doesn't have size but shows how absurdly large those car shuttle are lol. No clue if it's up to scale or anything

[sly creek]

it's probably very close

the ET class 9s are too big to be towed to Loughborough but not by that much I think.

[olive lily]

Finding absolutely nothing at all online 😭

Found this on railforums, no source tho

Loading gauge is GB+ so it seems they've basically built the car wagons to perfect fit the gauge

[sly creek]

I guess these days if you reversed at St Pancras you could drive an ET Class 9 all the way on your own if you didn't mind shaving every platform on the midland main line

[olive lily]

The wagons would demolish the platforms tho haha

[sly creek]

oh the wagons don't stand a chance those things are gigantic

the loco itself is quite bad too, the reason we didn't get mk4s on the MML was gauge clearance

[olive lily]

Apparently this book: has diagrams with specs of the class 9 💀

[sly creek]

I have been meaning to grab that book for a while.

I really want the mk1/mk2 coaches books but those are long since out of print and expensive.

[olive lily]

Wish lumo had gone with the mk4s/91s for their sterling run as originally planned , wouldve been so much nicer than the meridians and actually electric 😭

[sly creek]

I wish Grand Central's mk4 sets hadn't died because of Covid but that's life.

[olive lily]

Know someone who worked at grand central during that time, was extremely upsetting to the team morally as they'd all been working so hard on it

[sly creek]

I guess I'll buy this for £4 and see if it's got anything good inside!

[olive lily]

Only other thing I've found is this, but again, not super useful sadly

[sly creek]

lmao "fat shuttle"

[olive lily]

In the same book

[shy linden]

that massively helps

[echo bay]

Ask in train groups online

I was able to get a full scan of a Danish booklet from the early 90s about trains that never left the drawing board

[sly creek]

i am already in the train group to end all train groups but i can buy a book

[ocean bluff]

I'd happily demolish the entire Midland Main Line 😛

[sly creek]

I'll agree to it but only if we get to go back in time and prevent the GWR from ever having existed.

[shy linden]

agreed

[ocean bluff]

Thirded. And we keep the GCR open at all costs

[shy linden]

the gwr never needed to exist really if you think about it

the M4 goes that way its good enough

[ocean bluff]

or if we allow the GWR to exist, it has to remain Broad Gauge

[shy linden]

they would have to invest in electrics like the other 3

[olive lily]

@sly creek a friend has a book on locos and scanned in a bunch of pages on the class 9 for me

[olive lily]

The rolling stock scans!

[ocean bluff]

Noice

[olive lily]

god the size of those car wagons are just mental, look like something the combine would run

[sly creek]

hell yeah

you win the bounty @olive lily

i would not be surprised if those are the scans in the book i bought

[olive lily]

do i get to select a train to be added then, because i have one in mind that you will probably fucking hate me for

[sly creek]

blank cheque, fuck my shit up

[ocean bluff]

Fell Diesel 😛

[sly creek]

if you fuck my shit up too bad it might take more than 30 days

fell's ALREADY ON THE LIST and isn't that hard

(other than having animations)

[olive lily]

So theres going to either be absolutely infinite details, or absolutely no details about this train online, so totally unstandable if you dont want to do it, im not going to hold you too it (and if it takes longer than 30 days i also dont mind)

the class 895, aka the HS2 trains

[ocean bluff]

(I figured the animations made it painful)

[sly creek]

who got the contract for these?

[olive lily]

Alstom/Bombardier

[sly creek]

Hitachi X Alstom?

[olive lily]

oh yeah actually hitatchi too

[sly creek]

if they look like that i'll be amazed

[ocean bluff]

You just want Will to google "High Speed Hitatchi" don't you? 😛

[sly creek]

You think I don't know what a hitachi mr. buzzy looks like?

[olive lily]

25KV powered for your pleasure

[sly creek]

Such innocence.

No with how they fall apart you definitely don't want 25kv in one.

[ocean bluff]

https://klipy.com/gifs/ainsley-harriott

but to be serious, those trains look interesting

[olive lily]

they do look good, as will said, its the uk so it probably will end up looking like ass, but theyre nice plans

[sly creek]

No they'll probably end up looking good.

Check out what the original Pendolino/Voyager concepts looked like.

[olive lily]

i believe they where pretty on point iirc, mainly cuz they had those beautiful 2000s 3d renders where everything is mega shiny

[sly creek]

nooooo

[olive lily]

oh my fuck

[sly creek]

voyager first, pendo second

absolutely atrocious

[olive lily]

they are absolutely horrific, especially the voyager

the pendo looks a bit like a 180 tbh

one trains that i really loved the look of, was one of the applications to the HS2 rolling stock- the Aeroliner 3000, which was a plan to have a double deck train fit into the UK loading gauge by making it low floor. In reality would've been absolutely horrible to ride on as the top deck did not have much space at all, but

enjoy breaking your neck

[ocean bluff]

I thought we'd got away from goppingly awful HSTs after the Class 41 and the APT-E

Yeaaah as a 6ft 2 man, that top deck is just several hours of neck pain

[sly creek]

no matter what happens with HS2 the reality is this:

we should have bought some shit off the shelf from Siemens

[olive lily]

agreed, and same for the signalling too, i had no fuckin clue until recently that HS2 wanted a bespoke, unique signalling system, rather than using something standard like ECTS (which they have now confirmed they will use, thank fuck)

[sly creek]

ETCS isn't standardized at all, because it has EU-brain.

[olive lily]

well yeah thats true but its a bit better than them just doing their own thing for some reason

[ocean bluff]

That does feel very much like "how do we make this already willy shrinkingly expensive project even MOAR expensive for no reason"

[sly creek]

There's the "national" customizations which are all absolutely stupid.

And then there's the vendor-defined customizations which are all stupid.

And then there's the fact that ETCS standardises some things but does not strictly standardise the interoperability.

So there's no guarantee that Thales shit works with Siemens shit.

My firm belief is that moving block/CBTC based train signalling is a gimmick.

You can get rid of the track circuit if you really must. You can get rid of the axle counter if you really, really must.

But at the end of the day don't trust the train to tell you where it is.

The train is a lying pile of crap made by the worst companies on planet earth.

LZB should be good enough for everyone.

[olive lily]

idk, i kinda agree except in some extremely specific examples, mainly metros that absolutely neeed the capacity, i.e. the victoria line, or line 14 in paris. when you get down to less than 1 minute intervals

[sly creek]

if you built the victoria line today

you'd build the elizabeth line

and the elizabeth line doesn't actually need it's maximum frequency mode except when recovering from disruption

the elizabeth line gets its capacity back by having long, wide trains.

[olive lily]

The victoria line doesnt have moving block, and its very apparent when you have like a 15 second delay because someone got stuck in a door, often you have trains sat at the entrance of platforms, because one is leaving a platform and it has to wait for it to move out the block, where as in line 14 the trains start moving foward. Saves about 10-20 seconds but when you're running with such insane intervals its a massive help

[sly creek]

It does have CBTC though.

Moving block is kinda whatever, I don't think anything really uses it.

[olive lily]

i think this is basically the only case where it really helps, but it does help here tbf

is it fun to watch one of the other trains slowly stalk behind you during disruption haha

[ocean bluff]

Jaws theme on train horns

[sly creek]

You can have that in the US if you want, just have most signals be permissive and let the driver pass them on sight 🙂

(obviously you do that with absolutely no train protection system, because the US is insane)

[ocean bluff]

Yeah that got me as well "So you guys keep having accidents, so you either need ATP on all your services, or they can't go above 55mph"
"Okay, so, we'll just go 55mph then, screw you"

[olive lily]

"we dont need train protection if something happens we die like men"

[ocean bluff]

kills HSR in the US

[sly creek]

What they've done now is design an ATP system that doesn't actually work.

[ocean bluff]

American ingenuity that

[sly creek]

PTC via GPS is just a joke, it can't possibly work.

But what it is, and this is very important, is cheap to implement.

Problematic for me as person who in the future has to make a PTC simulation for gamers that provides the same sort of driver experience.

@olive lily what do you think, it's going to look a bit like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zefiro_(train)#Zefiro_V300

in a formation rather like the Eurostar E320

(same door config)

it's a bit... E320 with a TGV-M nose

[olive lily]

toooo be fair, i think that was the 2012 Zefiro design, so honestly i think it would probably be closer to the renders we've got so far, especially since HS2 have been putting those renders up everywhere at this point lmao

but yeah, door layout is like the e320

honestly its probably one of those ones where you could be a little creative and kinda go how you feel is best

[sly creek]

it's a bit slimmer than an e320, I assume the formation is like DM-PM-TS-(R?)TS-TS-PM-DM

who am i kidding why would there be catering on HS2?

there's not even going to be phone service or a view

[olive lily]

strangely, alstom mentions it being 8 car on thier page, but wikipedia says 7 cars, with the source locked behind a paywall, but theyre confirmed to be 200m long to couple into 400m long pairs

https://www.alstom.com/press-releases-news/2021/12/hitachi-and-alstom-win-order-build-and-maintain-high-speed-two-trains-britain

this is their press release which says 8 cars long

[sly creek]

probably confusion between the spec for classic compatible sets and dedicated high speed sets

[olive lily]

seeeems like 8 car is the actual answer, but ill keep lookin around

[sly creek]

just tell me what spec you want and i'll figure it out lol

[olive lily]

also lmao yeah, probably a trolley service if that 💀

[sly creek]

speaking of

thinking of forking timberwolf's tracks

i won't go crazy with speed limits or anything

but do we want a dedicated high speed line type with TVM/ETCS block markers instead of signals?

maybe shiny white ballast too

[olive lily]

Do 8 car, 360kph, rest is up too you :3

[sly creek]

🙂

[olive lily]

that would be very cool, hell yeah

[serene garnet]

The battersea bullet train 😀

[sly creek]

it looks like a bullet alright

[serene garnet]

So there's a design from this that I find quirky

A double deck suburban train on the apt wheel set

[olive lily]

Fun fact,: at one point is was proposed to have video screens rather than windows.

Could you imagine how quickly some 1995 3d render would age on this haha

[sly creek]

where are the passenger's legs meant to go?

[serene garnet]

😭

[olive lily]

The orb era

[sly creek]

at least with the VIRM or double-deck RER trains they make sense!

[serene garnet]

Oh my bad

It looks to be pacer

Imagine a double deck pacer 😭

[sly creek]

Pacer is APT wheel set 😛

[echo bay]

Reminds me of the stuff LNER run now

[sly creek]

(so the legend goes)

[serene garnet]

Looks quirky yet I like it

[echo bay]

Leyland Olympian

[serene garnet]

Oh yeah there's this

[olive lily]

Also all this just to run a 3 minute journey at like 20 mph

[sly creek]

I don't know how I feel about the 'Class 93'. For one it looks stupid.

And for two it doesn't really offer anything over a class 91.

[serene garnet]

Oh yeah they were gonna build this bit uhhhhh political shenanigans

[sly creek]

They were never going to build it, I assume it was actually a political gambit from the get-go.

[serene garnet]

Oh they were going to build it but budget fall short

[sly creek]

for where?

the west coast main line?

[serene garnet]

Major upgrade of its suburban and commuter Electric Multiple Unit (EMU) rolling stock on Network SouthEast, with the introduction of the Networker series as well as the construction of the Channel Tunnel lines.

[sly creek]

the ic250?

[serene garnet]

And upgrading the wcml

[serene garnet]

For the east cost

[sly creek]

upgrading the wcml was what they wanted to do and they might well have designed the IC250 to say "well if you let us upgrade the wcml before it falls apart you'll get this shiny new train" but they were never going to build something like that without the infrastructure to match.

[serene garnet]

Hmmmmmmm

[sly creek]

but they weren't going to build a fleet of 155mph trains for the WCML in the 90s. If they'd got the upgrades they would have been very happy running at 110mph as they did for years.

Just more reliably and with less conflict with local services.

[serene garnet]

Ok that's a new information added to my goo goo brain

[sly creek]

That's like, my opinion.

I don't think the IC250 project was very serious. BR hadn't forgotten why the APT was a failure, and they were just about to prove that the 91s didn't need to operate at 140.

[olive lily]

Imo, the 250 wouldn't have happened I agree, but if BR hadn't have fallen, we probably would've got some sort of derivative of it to replace the push pull services in the 2000s, that's basically the only way it would've happened

But yeah I think the writing was on the wall for BR at that point and they knew it

[sly creek]

(the APT was a failure because a very fast train takes up 3x more 'space' than a medium-fast train)

[ocean bluff]

Speaking of APTs...found this site today

https://www.apt-p.com/APTConfigurations.htm

[serene garnet]

I feel like they din't give br a chance with the apt

[ocean bluff]

the APT-S and APT-T with actual locos looks very cool

[sly creek]

I think you can do all of these in my set, maybe not the van-ended articulated sets in APT-U

Excuse me, non-articulated apt-U sets.

I could make a coach but I won't they're silly.

[ocean bluff]

Do you have the APT loco thingies? (I am not sure what to call them or what class they'd be)

Dat

[ocean bluff]

Sexy

[sly creek]

wait isn't the voxels for that the header image for this thread?

[ocean bluff]

I am only just in 1948 so these things are mucho in the future but, I look forwards

Oh, derp yes it is

Did you go with a class name or just APT-U? (or eDP3/1, which feels clumsy)

[sly creek]

The most speculative stuff (okay forgive me the big class 51... and the goofy dual-voltage 442) doesn't get a class number

[ocean bluff]

Righto, lots of fun APT based goodness, and more

[serene garnet]

Add the double deck pacer 🙂

[sly creek]

If I did the electric 158 that a few transport fever modders knocked up I would probably call it a class 358 for the jokes

[serene garnet]

Would be really funny

[sly creek]

I mean, double-deck olympian body on a railcar we can look at but there might be clearance issues.

Not as bad as the eurotunnel stock will have.

[stiff acorn]

Yet another case of me forgetting this server exists, i come back with another few ideas for things to add that were built irl but were few in number and a bit crap : The LNER P1 & P2 mikados, the Thompson A1/1, the D600 Warships, and the Raven A2 pacifics.

[ocean bluff]

I would love those, but alas I believe Will has said hes not doing steam engines. I shall have to figure out how to do the voxel thing myself I guess 😄 (we need a 2-4-2T and a more generic, less GWR 0-6-2T as well as the pre-grouping LNWR, NER and LSWR are badly in need of them)

[sly creek]

I didn't say never. I understand how to make them now.

Also gotta say, Hush-Hush is a nice looking loco.

[serene garnet]

Same for this one

[sly creek]

turbomotive?

it's hideous

[serene garnet]

Not nice 👁️ 👁️

Fun fact before the 9f was envisioned as a 2-10-0 they intend it as a 2-8-2

[sly creek]

https://github.com/WolfieFox/wolfiewolfs_trains/issues/16

Next page in the book is the Taff Vale Class A 0-6-2T, but there's also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taff_Vale_Railway_O1_class

What 2-4-2T do you want?

[vivid token]

How about a LNER F7?

Derpy little things with a massive cab

[sly creek]

Known as "Gobblers" due to their excessive fuel consumption, they were not a great success and many were withdrawn before Grouping in 1923.
(of the F4 class) I love when a loco has a derogatory nickname

LNER "Not very good" class

The Ruston 48 being a "Really Useless Engine" is because someone who dealt with one on a heritage line instantly told me how crap they are when I said I'd modelled one.

[vivid token]

Incredible

[sly creek]

I am working on it I swear.

[sly creek]

It really is going to be like a Class 374 cut in half.

And not just because that's where I'm starting from with the sprites

[sly creek]

I don't really love the door layout or the underframe yet

need more reference material. Could easily go to 2 doors per side.

also the sprites might be skrunkly because i've been messign with some other stuff

[olive lily]

Ooooooooh! That looks great so far!

[sly creek]

The dark area around the cab needs more of a curve from the isometric pov and I wanted to make it a bit pointier but I don't think that's happening.

[olive lily]

I can imagine trying to get the front curves to look good is an unbelievable pain in the ass 😭 glad when I tried to make some voxel models I stuck to buses for that exact reason lol

[sly creek]

working on some stuff. holes are all my fault but still, progress

[sly creek]

If anyone says DC Overhead electrification I will be shooting them with this gun.

[kind rampart]

the self discharge wagons are bugged

you cant see the wagons

[tardy ridge]

They've been discharged out of existence

[olive lily]

U shud add side contact third rail so we can build tht 1 route in Manchester/s

[graceful jolt]

One parameter for all railtypes

depends on how many tracks you'll have tho

"fences" to make it automatic like in jp+ would also be cool

[fleet cape]

that would be really cool tho

[sly creek]

I'm taking a brave position which is that the JP+ grass border "fences" are not really my cup of tea. I'm working on a new set of templates and offsets so that full tile slops align correctly.

[sly creek]

they seem to be fine for me, though the cargo recolour isn't working

(this is in 0.2.1)

[kind rampart]

my version was 0.1.3 🥲

my bad

[sly creek]

you're all good 🙂

[sly creek]

maturing is realising that pikka was right and that the scale on Timberwolf's original set is ever so slightly too big.

It's frustrating me because I want to do a few things that are continental-scale and it's basically not possible.

[vivid token]

Redo Timberwolf's for continental scale

Go on

You know you want to

[sly creek]

i don't think i'm going to be modelling every vehicle again, gotta be real with you

[feral ice]

You don't have the will to do it?

[echo bay]

Another uk train set at a different scale? Yolo it

[sly creek]

Time for a 1-hour time box to experiment with scaling and see if I want to drive myself insane.

[tardy ridge]

Is timeboxing a hobby project a cry for help? 😛

[sly creek]

I'm trying to be realistic, I'm going to be spending an hour trying to prove that I wasn't going to be able to do it without remaking every model.

and technically I haven't started yet

I hate windows lmao

[tardy ridge]

How is the clock an app that can even be updated

[feral ice]

Probably going to stuff ai in it

[olive lily]

Finally, time 2

[sly creek]

i retract this statement

[echo bay]

too late now

gotta get making the 67th UK train set for openttd

[sly creek]

wrong, i'm going to get making the 84th germany set for openttd (everything is much too big)

[echo bay]

2x zoom german trains will be cool

personally id just draw them to the same scale tho

[sly creek]

if i draw european trains to the same scale as timberwolf's existing things even very ordinary locomotives are in danger of clipping

[echo bay]

no i mean like

same size

[sly creek]

scale down the euro stuff to fit the existing bounding boxes is the other option but

[echo bay]

unless you mean that DD stuff is gonna be fucked by default?

but yeah

with my set when i draw uk stuff it will be drawn so that it looks fine with mainland european rollingstock

[sly creek]

it's a little bit tight because the Velaro D is already absolutely massive.

A class 92 is 20cm shorter than a Vectron

which is at the level of noticable at 4x zoom

[olive lily]

I think this is probably the better option tbh. Reworking the entire set sounds nuts, and i dont think 99% of players would care about the lack of a size difference

[sly creek]

I'm spending an hour investigating it to see if there's an (insane) shortcut.

[olive lily]

Good luck

[echo bay]

[sly creek]

the thing is, adding 4x zoom was an hour's work

rescaling the whole set is (nearly) the same as rendering the UK trains at 0.9x, 1.8x, 3.6x zoom...

(and then fixing all the lengths and offsets and turning sprite bounds, tee-hee)

I know how to do it, I know it's possible. I think it's a bad idea.

It would mean sacrificing a lot of stuff - the fidelity of the vehicles in a lot of views in particular - to make other vehicles that I haven't even got a plan to make look better.

I don't really understand openttd sprite sorting, I should look into it and find the actual limits for how big a vehicle sprite can be lol.

[vivid token]

15.5/8, which is unhelpfully 255vx

At least that's how the GETS manifest does it, I think it's possible to do 16/8 but the clipping issue would suck horribly

[ocean bluff]

Just pondering, as i've reached this point on my current game. Any plans to offer the Metro-Cammell DMU (Class 101) in 3 or 4 car sets?

[sly creek]

Wasn't thinking of it since there's the 117 and 127 to fill those holes (admittedly at different times and in different configs)

but perhamps

I want to do some (more?) 101 livery variants

[ocean bluff]

More liveries is always welcome. BR Green, Small Panel, and then Full Yellow Ends options would be lovely for the BR diesels. As would the Sector Liveries but they're quite a lot of work.

[olive lily]

@sly creek

Just noticed you've updated with the HS2 set! It looks fantastic, i love it

However this update appears to have broken steam tenders spacing, although it hasnt affected multiple units.

new wireless techology <:

[sly creek]

what the fu

i'll get right on that

what did I even do?

[olive lily]

Reminds me of this horrible idea from Toyota 😁

[sly creek]

hey it's called "virtual coupling" and until recently it was in the spec for ETCS

[olive lily]

I vaguely remember something happening similarly before and you said it was a table entry which has shifted everything or something? Very vague memory

[sly creek]

this might not get fixed until tomorrow because my working directory had a big change in it and I might need to re-render every sprite

(takes about 4 hours)

[olive lily]

No rush 💙 just if anyone's looking at this thread, don't update your set yet 😁

[sly creek]

Okay it won't be that bad but the replacement version might be a little weird.

Just looking for where that bug has come from this time.

The generated NML looks correct.

switch(FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_stanier_coronation_articulation, extra_callback_info1) {
    0 .. 5: stanier_coronation;
    return CB_RESULT_NO_MORE_ARTICULATED_PARTS;
}

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, SELF, switch_stanier_coronation_length, position_in_articulated_veh % 6) 
{
    0: return 2;
    1: return 5;
    2: return 2;
    3: return 5;
        
}```

wait no it doesn't

0 .. 5: stanier_coronation;

we're missing some entries in the length switch

found the bug, I think

VLOOKUP sucks

I had shuffled some columns around in the excel but VLOOKUP uses a column index to look up an offset from a searched column

so those don't automatically update

VLOOKUP highkey shit excel function

new thingy building

[ocean bluff]

Ah good old spreadsheets

The old garbage in, garbage out mantra. It will unfailingly populate all the wrong info, because it didn't update the cell references.

[sly creek]

Libreoffice is normally pretty good at keeping cell references valid but because there's no syntax for a relative cell reference vlookups crap out all the time.

it should be something like "In the range $B:$BC, give me the cell referenced by $BA" but nope, gotta be an index

i'm sure there's a workaround or some new function I could replace the vlookup with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICp2-EUKQAI

[ocean bluff]

Ah I use LibreOffice these days too (as OpenOffice stopped being updated)

[sly creek]

Libreoffice seems fine, I don't even use excel on the desktop at work.

Even when it'd be the right tool 😈

Fixed, please ignore my fugly WIP track

i'll upload in a sec

[olive lily]

Exactly 50 minutes from the report to the fix, incredible stuff

[sly creek]

Fix uploaded. I am around for a few more hours if you need to tell me I broke something else.

[ocean bluff]

I'm afraid I must report a further issue

[sly creek]

go for it

[sly creek]

lol

easy fix

[ocean bluff]

The Blue Pullman (the LMR version at least) is missing the rear power car

[sly creek]

but that might wait until next release

[ocean bluff]

WR set seems fine

[sly creek]

yeah, i forgot to take 2 coaches out of the 6-car set so it stopped reading at car 6 but car 6 wasn't a rear power car

[ocean bluff]

Easily done 🙂

[sly creek]

@ocean bluff Pick your poison

[ocean bluff]

Ooh I like 🙂

[sly creek]

Whiskers look fairly sharp at 4x, I like them too.

I did not look up reference images for them lol

[ocean bluff]

The small yellow warning panel version could do with the panel being a bit shallower and wider

Thusly

[sly creek]

oh yeah it was normally full width huh

where am i remembering the little little one from

that livery is extremely sus that's gotta be someone's reskin

[ocean bluff]

I've definitely seen the small one too. Probably one of the other first gen DMUs

[sly creek]

oh it's sus because they put on a yellow 1st stripe

definitely a later thing

TSW reskins and being super sus, classic combo

[ocean bluff]

Oh aye it was just the first image I grabbed.

The ultra small panel seems to have been popular on Southern EMUs

[sly creek]

yeah that's what I had in mind, probably thinking of a thumper

[ocean bluff]

Ah yup, they had the extra smol panel. It always seemed like it was a reluctant addition by staff. "Fine, we'll have a warning panel but its going to be the smallest one we can get away with"

[sly creek]

Think they didn't want it getting too scuffed up by the MU gear.

So they tried to paint all of it inboard.

not possible on a BIL

[ocean bluff]

Then you get the reverse with some regions

ALL THE YELLOW

[sly creek]

wraparound yellow is funky

don't look up what the guys at thornaby did to theirs

oh wait you can't because TSW DLC fills all the image search results

[ocean bluff]

I find the BR blue with small panels looks weird. Almost European

[sly creek]

that's even a weird shade of blue

[ocean bluff]

Yeah it reminds me of the "almost BR blue" ford car paint I used to use on models in the 90s

[sly creek]

don't get me started on the intersection between paint, sunlight, photochemical processes and the resultant question of "what colour is BR blue meant to be"

the shade the artists picked in TSW doesn't offend me and my brain has just gotten used to that being the colour now:

also all 101s are power twins because non-twin units are a bit pathetic

[ocean bluff]

I have long had arguments in my WWII game modding over shades of colour, trying to explain how scale alters colour

[sly creek]

luckily we got this all settled and there's one canonical modelling shade of rail blue now

🙃

[ocean bluff]

"There are 13 standards" 😄

[sly creek]

🫩

[vivid token]

Yeah, that's almost BR Caledonian Blue

[vivid token]

For a moment I thought that's a Thumper

[serene garnet]

Runner up liveries for br

[olive lily]

Oooooh fantastic, more variations are always great

[olive lily]

Literally unplayable 😁

[sly creek]

qqq

that was definitely correct before... I wonder if I accidentally copied in the gangway when I was adding the tail lamps.

that is probably what happened. maybe.

[olive lily]

it doesnt appear to have tail lights on it.. i think? maybe im a little blind and its those black dots

[sly creek]

are you sure that train is going forwards

it does have an oil lamp for me (ignore jank track, still. not been working on that)

[olive lily]

that is super strange, it doesnt look like any of my units have tail lamps now, although MU lights are still working. I've got a bunch of other newgrf on, lemmie run it on its own and check if its maybe some weird compatibility thing

[sly creek]

:S

that might be the jank build issue I alluded to

[olive lily]

Yeah running it on its own and it seems to have the same issue

[sly creek]

because in my up to date version I've been playing with tail lamps a lot (getting ready to put them on freight wagons) so some stuff has been juggled

[olive lily]

Ah well, its no biggie, minor and visual haha, happy to wait till whenever your next version is ready

[sly creek]

what I'll do is get all the container wagons done tonight and see about making a 0.2.4 with them+fixed coaches and then everything should be in alignment.

actually changing the sprites for each train is the fast bit now that the optimized logic is done for wagons

[echo bay]

B r o a d gauge

[vivid token]

More like rail fence gauge

[sly creek]

the train runs on it's left wheels for half a tile, then it's right wheels for half a tile. this is to balance out the wear.

[sly creek]

oh right

cargo compatibility

i think tanktainers makes sense for all the ISO container wagons, I will add them

do people have other cargo extensions in mind? I know open wagons with barrels was a want, I sort of think flat wagons with road tankers on top is an option

that was a thing for beer/milk

answers on a postcard thx

[vivid token]

There is one prototype for a roadrailer in the UK

[stiff acorn]

is there still plans to add 10800, fell and other stuff?

[sly creek]

Yes

[sly creek]

https://igg.org.uk/rail/11-kitba/rrtank.htm

I was thinking old-timey.

[vivid token]

Yes I know, I ought to be making a few of these too

[sly creek]

The actual roadrailer for dog food or whatever it is seems a bit whatever.

I would like to do a curtainsided wagon though.

[sly creek]

I fixed a confusing, hard bug at work today.

First person to ask me for something that can be delivered in under two hours gets it.

[sly creek]

💀

[vivid token]

Franco-Crosti 9Fs?

Or if you're making steam, the Ivatt 4MTs

For wagons, maybe the HRA cut down aggregates hoppers

[serene garnet]

I remember like one of them missing a drive wheel making them 2-8-0 9fs

[ocean bluff]

Oh, reminds me. The Blue Pullman

The 8-car version is only capable of 78mph, rather than 90mph. Is that prototypical due to the extra weight, or a bug?

[sly creek]

timberwolf short changed it by 1000hp and it's overall TE is pretty pathetic too

i'll buff it a bit

[serene garnet]

So I was not hallucinating

Also sorry for the low quality pic it was from an old british transport film

[ocean bluff]

Okeedokes, just wondered. I did see it was only a 1000hp unit so I did wonder if it was prototypically anemic 😄

[ocean bluff]

Also, bit confused, might be me trying to "cheat"

• Has Baby Deltics on Suburban duties. Due to a tunnel, one station requires quite a long reverse to turn around. So they spend a long time at 20mph reversing

• So, sticks a Class 419 MLV on the back. That'll act as a cab to reverse faster than 20mph, and carry some extra post. Win?

• Train now reverses at 18mph not 20mph ???

[sly creek]

Uhhh, huh.

Are you sure you don't have any conditional order/programmable signals shit going on because I can't reproduce that.

[olive lily]

I actually have another bug to report that may be related as it relates too driving backwards

But its on a different unit entirely

I believe the APT coach sets arent treated like a usable DVT for some reason, So on the squadrun sets, they have different behaviors if swapped around. Here are two squadrun sets, one was built with the power car in front and a rake of APT coaches behind, the other was built with the APT coaches in front and a power car behind

[sly creek]

should be fixed in the next version

[olive lily]

when they reach the end of the line, one correctly doesnt flip, but the other (the one with the apt cars trailing) does

[sly creek]

already knew about it, hoped nobody would yell at me

the back half rakes lack the cab flag

[olive lily]

Ahhh fantastic <:

[olive lily]

sorry 😭

[ocean bluff]

I think it might be it being slightly too long for the station, and for some reason when it reverses it thinks it hasn't reserved a signal (it has) so it goes at 18mph

I have shortened the consist by one coach and will test again

Yep all fine, was the game goofing out about path reservations

[sly creek]

sounds like maybe a jgr programmable signals thing?

you should report to JGR

[ocean bluff]

Possibly, it was a very niche situation

(same reason i reported it here, I figured no-one else would be trying to slap a southern region battery parcel van onto a baby deltic suburban mk.1 consist and trying to use it as a pseudo-DVT 😄 )

[stiff acorn]

bit of a what-if but could we maybe get steam era and MK1 era DVTs/Autocoaches?

[olive lily]

huh, i could've sworn timbers had autocoaches but i cant find em, maybe im thinking of iron horse

[stiff acorn]

i think you are yes

[sly creek]

It doesn't have an autocoach but I am up to add some. Steam era DVT equivalent is a bit tricky.

[ocean bluff]

Maybe a modified beaver tail observation coach, except it's a driving cab?

Particularly the later BR modified one. The LNER one is a bit too sleek. Doubt you'd see anything

[sly creek]

New vehicles are, I think, going to wait until the end of tail lamp season.

I am more or less half way done with the wagons. I have the hoppers, opens and bolsters left to go.

I'm 100% going to go to a double-scale flashing tail lamp though, the first one I made is barely visible.

[sly creek]

To speed up iteration times and save some filesize, the next version will only have 4x sprites and I'll let openttd handle the downscaling.

shouldn't be noticable visually, it's not like the 1x and 2x sprites were handcrafted beauties

[olive lily]

How long does it take to compile it all just out of curiosity?

[sly creek]

rendering sprites was 6 hours when including the 1x and 2x sprites and doing it in parallel on a 6-core CPU

nmlc was 12 minutes when all the sprites were in the cache after that

[olive lily]

daaamn, yeah thats a decent chunk of time

[sly creek]

with only 4x sprites, nmlc takes 5 minutes

rebuilding all sprites was pretty rare at least

[olive lily]

ahhh makes sense ^^

[vivid token]

Damn, sounds like I should do that too

[sly creek]

honestly, yes.

i had to hack at the whole pipeline to make it work but worth it

your pipeline might be simpler

[vivid token]

No, I need to figure out ways to make it also lighter and easier on storage as well

I just ran a stupid experiment on the palette

And it works

grumbles

Do you just directly call spriteset(*name*, ZOOM_LEVEL_IN_4X, BIT_DEPTH_32BPP, PATH, MASK_PATH)?

[sly creek]

Yes (but this set is 8bpp :^))

[sly creek]

0.2.4 uploading. Next version will have new vehicles, unless this one is horribly broken.

Thanks for the patience 🙂

Took a minute. Uploaded for reals now. I'm going to the shops, hopefully it's not totally borked.

[olive lily]

Thank you for the hard work, Its really awesome to have my favorite train grf to be worked on significantly further

[sly creek]

I like doing it.

[olive lily]

I dont know if this is intentional, but the purchase list sprites look a little odd?

Compared to how they used to be

also the 225 dvts have their tail lights on when driving foward

tail lamps on the freight seems to be working perfectly tho ^^

[sly creek]

perils of downscaling the 4x sprites to 2x for the purchase menu probably, if you had a higher UI scale they might look better?

and uhhh, who knows what I broke with the Mk4 DVT, I'll look at it lol

[sly creek]

the dvt tail lights was a dodgy copy paste of code, will be fixed next version.

[sly creek]

Sleep time. 2.5 new vehicles today

Here's the other one, just a little guy, also a GWR beast. There is no prize for guessing it.

(not super happy with that sprite)

I should do the Autocoach

[ocean bluff]

Taff Vale 0-6-2T?

[sly creek]

Barry Railway B1 but very solid guess

Ian Beattie's book inspired me

(after I found it for £3 in a secondhand shop)

[ocean bluff]

Noice

[sly creek]

Worked late figuring out a thing for a demo build. Is it boxy friend time?

[olive lily]

what is boxy friend lol

[sly creek]

Fell Locomotive

[olive lily]

99% radiator

[sly creek]

WIP, need to mirror the radiator and add bodyside and roof details

also a brighter bufferbeam to make it pop a bit

Also maybe I could nudge stuff around to make the bonnets longer

[sly creek]

That'll do me. What next?

Autocoach?

[echo bay]

A silly little guy

[sly creek]

Joke's on you everything is silly little guy. Autocoach done (kitbash from my slightly dodgy railmotor trailer)

[sly creek]

who fucking said "steam DVT"?

own up

[olive lily]

lmfaoooooo

[olive lily]

that does look fucking awesome tho (and equally cursed)

[sly creek]

need to introduce a new level of optional param called "shit I made up"

[olive lily]

parameter just called:

actually, if where doing cursed 'completely made up' stuff, I do have a suggestion, the fictional 'class 78' a modder on tpf made, which is basically a third rail 87. Fills a nice gap of having a slightly higher speed third rail loco to match the 442

[sly creek]

are we at the "nicking stuff from tpf2 modders" phase yet? i feel like that's still a little way down the road

maybe once the todo list is empty

LNER P1/P2/W1 might be up next?

54 foot autocoach on top, 70 foot autocoach on the bottom

and the new cursedness in the middle

[olive lily]

Fantastic work

[sly creek]

Not sure how best to 2cc a steam loco, especially a freight one.

A P2 is a P1 with a heftier boiler barrel
A W1 is a P2 with dipping sauces.

[serene garnet]

I just find it funny how the boiler look fat

[sly creek]

boilers always look a lil chub

[serene garnet]

P2 you have either the "normal" and streamlined

Btw I say normal cuz none of the all p2 have a same component

[vivid token]

Externally only the Cock of the North was different from the rest of the P2s, mostly

Because the P2s are less a class and more a collection of engines with similar exteriors

[serene garnet]

More of a test bed

[sly creek]

Everything about the P2s sounds like they would have been pretty spectacular in service.

[vivid token]

(They were not)

[sly creek]

Look if O.S Nock says they were probably fine, I trust him.

RIP O.S Nock you would have been insanely good on Tumblr.

They might have been broken a lot but 3 big cylinders working very hard sounds cool as hell and I hope I get to see one someday.

[vivid token]

Oh it's really funny, cause OS Nock really just shittalked Edward Thompson after his death

Despite like, him having said "Yeah no they were bad" during wartime

[sly creek]

OS Nock wearing his "#1 Gresley Fan" hoodie.

P2 Unstreamlined, revised P1.

[vivid token]

Looking good

[sly creek]

need to make the fatass A4 and then the A4 that I gave the landlord special to

[sly creek]

Gallping Sausage (top)
P2 (Streamlined) (bottom)

last locos for the weekend

[serene garnet]

Well they were too big too strong and route availability was small and coal consumption would make an a1 more viable

[tardy ridge]

Out of curiosity, are the grey sprites the final colour or are they awaiting paint/shading?

Not too familiar with the prototypes.

[serene garnet]

Hmmmmmm

Kinda look like the a4 with smoke deflectors

[sly creek]

just 2cc, I try to pick a varied colour each time.

[sly creek]

after the rebuild it's basically just an a4 with a bonus axle

[serene garnet]

Yeah basically

Although the tender survived

[sly creek]

Yeah, the tender matches the cab.

[serene garnet]

Used by an a4

[serene garnet]

Oh i just now only see it

[sly creek]

Yeah special weird curve.

[sly creek]

wip

quick train before swim time

[shy linden]

LNER tyneside unit?

[sly creek]

ding ✅

[shy linden]

one of my favourite EMUs

[olive lily]

hell yeah ❤️

[shy linden]

i feel the front isnt rounded enough however

[sly creek]

yeah it's slab fronted and it needs about as much nose as the autocoaches got

[sly creek]

I'm going to nudge it out in the middle and tidy up the underframe, then maybe redo the windows

but later

and then i'll do the earlier NER units

[shy linden]

is this like a quick pre-draw then?

i do this as well lmao

[sly creek]

first pass to get the shape and size and stats right

[shy linden]

yea

[sly creek]

then import, see how it looks and tidy up the voxels based on how the sprites came out

[sly creek]

So... done? Maybe?

Release this weekend? Maybe need some suggestions again though I dread to ask.

[sly creek]

Oh actually, I do want to improve the diversity of wagon loads, so any suggestions for things that wagons should carry but don't are welcome.

I think I'll already have a stab at tanktainers and steel barrels for liquids/chemicals

[vivid token]

Realistically all open wagons should be able to carry everything, but that's also a lot of work

[sly creek]

It's not crazy bad because the list of open wagons that aren't hoppers isn't super long.

[olive lily]

I don't know if it would be possible, but one thing I think could be an improvement would be having the container wagons have 40ft containers, with it being a random mix. Always found it weird that timberwolves only seems to have 20ft ones when irl I think they're mostly 40ft these days

[sly creek]

Yeah I think I can make that happen.

[sly creek]

not final colours or styles, but technologically, it's there.

[olive lily]

Ooooooh I love it, awesome work, having randomised container colours looks miles better too

[sly creek]

That was a lot of work, I basically went to bed for 10 hours after I was done.

[sly creek]

Oof the tankers look way too bright lol.

[sly creek]

I wrote a new set of colour remaps for the containers but I haven't got any screenshots. I'm drinking and eating leftovers, give me your requests and I'll see what I can make happen.

(Vehicles, cargo, features, bugs)

[olive lily]

I think it may have been mentioned before, but what about those Met 4th rail locos?

[sly creek]

Oh yeah, I'm up for that. Do you have pics of the stock they're meant to go with?

It might just be generic clerestory stock.

[olive lily]

I think it has been a mix over the years, but the most used are those compartment coaches that have the rounded door tops

I believe the rounded door tops stopped the doors from getting ripped off if opened inside the sub surface tunnels

[sly creek]

stubby non-clerestory compartment stock (teak)

[olive lily]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_carriages

may be of some help

[sly creek]

I think I said previously, it's a bit of a bummer that the openTTD palette doesn't have good colours to make teak rolling stock look good

[olive lily]

also, it might serve the same purpose, so a bit rendundant, but the district railway had these goofy two part boxy locos, if you wanted to also do something silly lol

[sly creek]

charles tyson yerkes commits yet another crime against railways

those are hideous yet fascinating

how many did they make?

[olive lily]

according to wikipedia, it seems 10

[sly creek]

i'll see what I can do...

[olive lily]

cant find any stats that arent just on wikipedia, but i did find this image which just shows them as basically hollow boxes lmao

[sly creek]

were it not for the arc flash hazard you could put a bunch of mail in there.

[shy linden]

if you look at the sources at the bottom of the page

10 of them, source from a book

[ocean bluff]

To be fair, as the entry there says "The London Underground opened in 1863 with gas-lit wooden carriages hauled by steam locomotives. "

Safety wasn't exactly high on the agenda 😄 wooden carriages with gas lighting, hauled by coke-fired steam engines, in a confined space. What could possibly go wrong? 😄 its honestly amazing there wasn't a Quintishill level horror down there.

[sly creek]

Hard to have a serious accident at 30mph but I take your point.

[sly creek]

container wagons are a bit overpowered now

[olive lily]

Ooooh that is absolutely awesome tho, love going to see that variation on em

[sly creek]

If I went a little bit more crazy I could add tarped containers and let container wagons haul coal...

actually

there's an idea

yeah PFA wagon is a good idea

i'll get right on that after I work out some other stuff

[tardy ridge]

hides my containerised livestock, coal, and limestone trains

[olive lily]

I did not know those existed, googling it and wow that is incredibly cursed

Could they be lifted like regular containers? I suppose that would be the only way to empty them

[sly creek]

honestly no idea what the logistics were, I assume a regular container crane has enough clearance to get past the coal pile

[serene garnet]

A tavern coach would be a funny idea surely they din't made it in real life

[sly creek]

they really did

tbh the set needs more early coaches

[serene garnet]

Observation car:) ?

[sly creek]

I published an update but you should only update if you're brave.

I don't know what's in it. I sort of cooked a chilli, got half-cut and decided to click buttons on bananas.

[sly creek]

my promise to you: the next release will be 1.0

[olive lily]

testing it on my big save and nothing has exploded yet 😁 the new containers look fantastic

[sly creek]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgDXFjJWeqY

bumping

I had the day off work.

I made a class 303.

I'm mad at #1429587322944622602 because their scale is correct so they can always get the right number of windows on the side of each train

Only solution: quit my job and go live in the woods, thank you for your attention in this matter.

[sly creek]

the vehicle gaps on non-gangwayed vehicles piss me off. i should fix that.

they look too big imo

i've never seen a class 303 in isometric perspective because my stupid can't focus on infinity so maybe it's fine

[tardy ridge]

Passenger cars without gangways is such a strange concept to me 🙂

Wait, these don’t look like compartment stock, do you just mean passengers can walk between cars but without rubber diaphragms?

[ocean bluff]

Apparently when originally built they did not have gangways

[tardy ridge]

How did they check tickets?

[ocean bluff]

I guess they didn't. Was intended for short commuter journeys so presumably checked at one end of the line or the other

[echo bay]

a lot of early rollingstock also didnt have doors between carriages too

i was told by someone, probably james, that tickets would be checked first before being allowed to the platforms

[ocean bluff]

Yup, used to need a ticket just to get onto the platform

[vivid token]

Love you too

I'm jealous that TW's/Wolfie's is so much easier to build

[shy linden]

The middle coach is slightly longer irl btw

[sly creek]

I think I built them 63 feet long. Think. I'll check later 😛

[sly creek]

Kitbashing and 2cc both make it very easy to build. The art style isn't my ideal but I think it fits with the average asset a bit better.

Now that I fixed the build times (from 12 minutes to about 25 seconds) the only nightmare in the dev process is if you need to re-render every train, but at least that goes in parallel.

[vivid token]

Yeah I imagine. I'm considering updating the Mark 1s in my set and use a modular style

So I would just drag in predesigned components per livery

[stiff acorn]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_10800 regarding this thing i suggested a while back, you could do its original 800hp form and its rebuilt 1400hp form as 'Hawk'.

[jaunty smelt]

ya know im really curious

do ya think your able to convert Timberwolf's Class 77 to a NS 1500?

[sly creek]

Hardly any difference, probably. I'm holding off on doing anything European until I have a good idea of scale.

[vivid token]

@sly creek How do you do the passenger aging stuff? I'm dumb and can't find the templated code

[sly creek]

switch (FEAT_TRAINS, PARENT, procedure_passenger_cargo_age, cargo_age_period, hasbit(bitmask_consist_info, HAS_BUFFET_CAR)) {
    1: return (cargo_age_period * cargo_age_multiplier * 5) / 8;
    return (cargo_age_period * cargo_age_multiplier) / 2;
}```

it's newly de-templated 🙂

[vivid token]

What about for like sleeper cars?

[sly creek]

they just have a bigger number

cargo_age_period: procedure_passenger_cargo_age({{if .cargo_age_period -}}{{.cargo_age_period}}{{else}}185{{- end}});

full disclosure: i probably believe 2talltyler's assessment that cargo aging is just busted.

[vivid token]

I also agree

I will copy those out to somewhere

[tardy ridge]

It needs a real proper test, in case I screwed up somewhere

If we can repro it, we can fix it

The opposite is also true: it can only be fixed if we can prove that it’s broken, and prove that a change fixes it. 🙂

(Obviously you know how this works, Will, I thought this was #add-on-development and I was explaining to GRF authors at large)

[vivid token]

Can we not just change it for the sake of improving it? As in make it more reproducible and predictable?

Well, very royal we here. I'm nowhere confident enough to touch the OTTD code base

[tardy ridge]

What we need:

• A test GRF with three vehicles identical except for their cargo aging property: 0, normal value, maximum value
• A test savegame with three parallel tracks from a big city to a number of smaller towns, each a different distance along the track: 100 tiles, 500 tiles, 1000 tiles, 4000 tiles. Each train loads fully at the big station (not Full Load, the station should just be busy using the 100% rating cheat) and then goes to a station to unload.

Do this, and we can see what the delivery payments are for each distance. If they are identical across trains despite the cargo aging being different, it’s broken, and then I can fix it and prove my fix worked by showing that they earn different payments. 🙂

I ran this test previously using a hacked-up version of Danish Trains and got the same numbers, but I don’t trust that my test GRF was set up properly.

[sly creek]

I can make a grf no problem.

[sly creek]

lol no kidding

(just a quick test, obviously not working but this is not vanilla at all)

i can stop the train for as long as I like and the payment is always the same.

actually I guess 0 decay time is equal to 65535 decay time.

okay, it does do something, think I should try a spectrum of values (100, 200, 300) and see if the numbers make sense.

[graceful jolt]

looked into some of your BAD_FEATURES and you really should consider replacing bitmask_vehicle_info with badges

[sly creek]

I can do that now, I couldn't when I was still a fork/extension of timberwolf's set.

[graceful jolt]

Why? Does timberwolf's have a generator?

[sly creek]

Well the generator is just a different flavour of restaurant car, your honour.

The dining car bonus is the original sin and I just copied it. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa 😛

[ocean bluff]

What does the "Stayin Alive" parameter do?

[feral ice]

Well you can tell by the way the trains use their walk

[ocean bluff]

Oh also, pleased to report that upgrading still works, and my JamesTrains addon still seems to work fine with your pack. (of course, I have mine set to use 2x sprites, and they don't have 4x sprites so you'd see quite a jarring difference if set to 4x but, eh)

[sly creek]

||makes horses walk backwards instead of flipping||

||but with reversed animations||

[ocean bluff]

Ah okee 👍

[olive lily]

#1485801256269381702 message

[sly creek]

So I have a bunch of stuff work in progress and my motivation for all of it has evaporated, so I think I need to play some OpenTTD to feel it again.

Current WIPs:
Teak coaches (really just the top-flight express versions) but I'm thinking about the quad-art very hard once I figure out how to make wood look good.
A really crappy narrow gauge loco from the 21st century, if you can guess what it is you get a biscuit.
I've made a 303 that I'm happy with, I'm thinking about a 312 or something (it's the face of a 310 on an all-door body, right?)

[serene garnet]

Uhhhhhh for the narrow gauge is it steam or diesel:> ?

[ocean bluff]

I know it's a "gamey" thing but, Class 128s make excellent ad hoc DVTs and post boxes for otherwise all-passenger DMUs

Would you be opposed to making said Class 128s, as well as the other cargo DMU conversions (and things like the Mk.I GUV) carry food, fish etc too?

[sly creek]

Uhhh, yeah I think I'd be up for loosening the refit on Mail coaches other than the TPO.

[ocean bluff]

Excellent. Just found it odd that the GWR Siphon Van can carry all these things but not the GUV or Parcel DMUs, which also carried various odds and sods when required (Tyneside EMUs famously having part of the luggage van for carrying fish)

[sly creek]

a van is a van

[shy linden]

No, 310s and 312s have the same amount of doors

they are pretty much identical except 312s being built later

[sly creek]

shit which vehicle am i thinking of

[shy linden]

not a mk2 derived one

[sly creek]

thinking of a 304 🦕

[shy linden]

very different cab, that being from the 1959 bodyshell stock (304, 305, 308, 504)

[sly creek]

it's not that different at openttd scale. I'd use the cab off the 127

(with some jumpers etc)

[shy linden]

knowing this ill forever be mad at it lmao

[sly creek]

if you look at the voxels you will get so incalculably mad

mk1 and mk2 stock have the same profile, for starters

some things are OK. The thumper family are actually good, distinguishing between the slab-sided and tumblehome stock

i should make the 310 in pre-rebuild and post-rebuild fronts. if I do a 312 it'll just be an excuse for a livery variant

the header pic on wikipedia for the 312 is like: finally, an excuse for me to use 4cc

[shy linden]

oh yea first great eastern

[sly creek]

i don't think there are many vehicles in the set that really would benefit from me figuring out a 4cc scheme. FGE and NSE both work

the mk4s having a non-paintable black window surround bugs me a bit, they could do with some love

[shy linden]

ill disagree there, i dont think any other colour would look good for the window surround

[olive lily]

304 would be kinda sick tho, such a weird look to em

[olive lily]

Carrying nuclear waste in the cargo compartment of my Tyneside emus

[sly creek]

I just think it'd be nice to get a vibe more like the LNER/TFW sets, maybe I'll do an alt livery.

[sly creek]

1 barrel of waste and 60 blokes with machine guns

I've been meaning to model an FNA forever but there is not really an industry set for them to go with

and KUA

[olive lily]

Would be very cool, even if just to larp nuclear. But yeah, I can't think of any existing sets that work with the nuclear chain, shame really as it does feel a little unique