Kinki

[teal geyser]

@peak cedar @magic cape @spice hinge - starting this up so we can coordinate our zone

[magic cape]

Ah ok, we got our own dm group as well

[peak cedar]

ello

@teal geyser hey, can you send a quick screenshot of our area? So I can draw a rough sketch for the shin and/or regular lines

[teal geyser]

this work? wanted to make sure you got @crimson thicket in to the north

[peak cedar]

Yeah, that works

[teal geyser]

loosely, I got something like this in my head... terrain dependent

[peak cedar]

Is the area on the west yours or is it a separate prefecture?

or is it mine lol

[teal geyser]

Looks like this....

[peak cedar]

So it's a good situation

Okay going to draw these now

The previous image was also partly my idea too

[teal geyser]

awesome, i'm easy on what we do... just would love one solid connection to your main station to run the mini-shinkansen, and some freight links

[peak cedar]

I probably won't put up the shinkansen at my main station, the junction is already quite big and there's no space to make it bigger

[stoic sigil]

🕵️

[peak cedar]

I thought of another alternative with connection to the regular rail

Also, forgot to mention, terrain is really tricky on your side too

[teal geyser]

It’s super tricky. I am thinking we get a bit creative with the city on top of the hill. Maybe flatten it out a bit and rebuild it nice.

[teal geyser]

Fair but I think @glacial comet idea of a mini-Shinkansen is not as intense as a proper bullet train

[peak cedar]

My network is narrow gauge though

aren't shinks standard gauge?

or are you talking about just having an "express" train

[teal geyser]

You’re right, I was thinking it was something else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-shinkansen. maybe we go with expresses. It’s going to be very hard to do level straight track in the hills

[peak cedar]

You could certainly have shink going trough the coast into osswix's area

[teal geyser]

That is a great point. I’ve got to get familiar with my land haha

[peak cedar]

And from osswix all the way to oume (?)

[glacial comet]

ooh i've been summoned - the one good thing about the mini-shinkansen is it doesn't need to hit the big shinkansen standards
and you can do cool things where you have like
1 track standard gauge (normal standard gauge) minishinkansen
1 track narrow gauge (normal train)

then a passing loop where it suddenly turns dual gauge to allow for passing

but thats my 2 cents and i'll be happy whatever happens (and even happier if a shinkansen (a nd even happier if a mini shinkansen) )

[peak cedar]

Interesting

I don't know where a mini shink might be possible

[teal geyser]

Now this does sound interesting! I’m mostly here for the scheduling and this sounds like a fun challenge haha.

[teal geyser]

We got time to think! Lots of challenges ahead

[peak cedar]

Really just a basic sketch, pointed lines are some I am unsure about or that are suggestions, I've also marked some places where the important stops could be located

Yes, I know the shink at Isesaki is really far into the (still future) suburbs, but it has railway service

[glacial comet]

whats red

[peak cedar]

possible shink

[glacial comet]

i agree

[peak cedar]

Actually, I might have an idea for a mini-shink

Magenta

I think It's suitable, not sure if a little long

[glacial comet]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-happy-dog-dog-happiest-dog-super-happy-gif-17885812

[peak cedar]

other alternative can be this

Though this one would require lots of terraforming and tunnels

let me know your thoughts, @teal geyser

[teal geyser]

Will do, will take a better look later when I’m back at my computer

[teal geyser]

Putting this here too. I agree that this would be a great route as it will be a primary access point to the north of the island #1204088496755712000 message

[teal geyser]

I think this works well, the other 'pass' from kumamato is actually really steep so lets do this. Shinkansens from Isesaki can terminate at kanazawa while the shinkansens from through run from migazaki to kumamato.

[teal geyser]

Question, where does the actual shinkansen run to... as these mini-shinkansens we'll be doing are essentially branchlines that run at 130kmh.

[peak cedar]

This is the main shinkansen line to China if that's what you are asking for

[peak cedar]

I actually planned on having a different line that's more straighter and faster from the junction south of Isesaki

I will certainly do that one

[peak cedar]

@teal geyser I've built the shink station at Isesaki by the way

[unreal blaze]

the orange doesnt go through the caldera anymore

[glacial comet]

The mini Shinkansen trains usually run onto the main Shinkansen line and then to wherever

If they are run in the shared blue company as all the other main shinkansen then it won’t be hard to slot it into a main timetable and run it from somewhere crazy like Nara even

[teal geyser]

Got it, so here’s what I think I’d like to do. I would like to run a mini-Shinkansen single track standard gauge, parallel to the DC tracks, narrow gauge, between isesaki and Kanazawa. It will connect to the bigger high speed network for through running but won’t be a high speed section.

Something like this… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ōu_Main_Line#Ōmagari–Akita_(51.7_km)

[glacial comet]

YESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYESYES

continue as you were

[peak cedar]

so this? #1406045547240099930 message

[teal geyser]

This... its too steep the other way

[peak cedar]

Okay okay

[hazy shadow]

Exactly what I want to do as well, always good to do mini shinks with the two parallel gauges and the weird 3 track dual gauge station layouts haha

[teal geyser]

Sweet, this is exactly what I was thinking too... such a weird mix of lines but some coolness to it. Have you started yet? If so where?

[teal geyser]

Tinny, whats the magic tricks to get those dual platform stations you had at Trennton? (In Kaleserv)

[hazy shadow]

Nah I don’t see a value in doing so for a few years yet, we in 1970 it’s more a late 90’s thing so probably won’t for a while

[hazy shadow]

Overlaps and waypoints from Dutch and North Korean Set, gotta get a signal in there somehow to stop a full reservation

I’d help more but I’m away, been enjoying the old buses at a show

[teal geyser]

No problemo, I forgot the signal darn... enjoy the show! I'm patchy these days so maybe by the time I get on next it will be 1998.

[hazy shadow]

Haha, you should check some cab views of these sections, the layouts are fun….and yea, 1998 would be the prefect year to start construction 🥲

[teal geyser]

I will have to, I have no idea what I am building!

[magic cape]

I've done the main rail on my side

Expect for a lot of things like station and signalling

[hazy shadow]

I’ll sneaky drop some somewhere where you can see later 👀

[peak cedar]

@teal geyser This afternoon I will be off on holdays for a week

[teal geyser]

Enjoy! Maybe DM me your pw just in case.

[peak cedar]

Thanks! I asked Osswix if we can give you the password

[teal geyser]

Sounds good, if you’re sharing then no worries, you got cover

[peak cedar]

I have DM'd you the password

[hazy shadow]

While I always say that if you're doing a mini-shinkansen, the prime choice should be to isolate a section and convert to standard gauge and run standard gauge 719-5000 series or 701-5000 series EMUs on locals....the exception to that is this incredible (not very long) dual-gauge section of the Ou Mainline. You have the standard gauge on the left, narrow on the right - with the standard gauge staying single track for the most part and the narrow gauge expanding out to 2 tacks at most stations (like at 26:00). Here you get the standard gauge and narrow as dual-track for a section, effectively making a long loop for a mini-shinkansen. Meanwhile the narrow gauge continues to have 2-track looping stations as well through this section.... https://youtu.be/yP58a3weIzY?t=2376 then stations at 42:20 and 49:00 before it ends at 51:50. At 55:20 you'll see a standard gauge local on the left, here the shinkansens reverse and continue on a standard gauge only single track line to reach the Shinkansen route towards Tokyo. This train we're on continues down the Ou Mainline to Shinjo where it pulls into a split platform - because the other side of the buffers is a different mini-shinaknsen that's converted the Ou Mainline to Standard Gauge. 🤭

Anyway, I hope you find some inspiration from this fun 2-car local trundling along~

[teal geyser]

Mint, thanks Tin! I will take a look, I made a convoluted multigauge set up last night and looked at this AM and wondered what the hell I made haha. I have been reading the wiki on mini-shinkansens... and took some creative license to create combos of these strange kinda setups in and around Kanazawa.

[hazy shadow]

It is a fun one this bit! I get quite passionate about it haha. I'll have to peek at what you've done a little later on!

[peak cedar]

@teal geyser Hey, I don't know what you've worked on, but if you want you can track up the station at Toyooka (I think it was called that?)

that and connect the track between toyooka and the rest of the shink

[teal geyser]

I have just been picking at the Kanazawa area. But I see about starting this! As it’s on your side of the border can I build in your company name?

I’ll leave the decorating to the pros!

[peak cedar]

Yea sure

Make sure to add terminating tracks on my side for shink and Narrowgauge terminating tracks at both my and your side

I will ask epicpixel to connect the shink tunnel at Isesaki with Oume

If we get that we would be able to already run the shink from Oume to Isesaki

[teal geyser]

Good stuff! Im also set up at Kanazawa to receive mini-shinkansens

[hazy shadow]

Your train 52 is going on a very long lost joyride ;p

[teal geyser]

@peak cedar For your return, I made the routes through the valleys towards Isesaki... just needs connecting at your end!

Maybe some new towns added along the routes too!

@magic cape I am set up to run mini-shink from Miyazaki direction if you wanted to build a line. I was kind of hopimg you would as they can run all the way to Kumamoto.

[glacial comet]

👀

[peak cedar]

Okay cool, I saw you made the ng lines to Renamitsu (cool name choice btw)

[peak cedar]

I will make a junction there yeah

Though I thought it may be a better idea if the ng tracks didn't go as parallel to the sg tracks as they are

since most towns would be on the middle area

[magic cape]

I dont really have hs plans

[teal geyser]

I wish I could say I placed and named that city! It was not me!

[teal geyser]

There is scope to push the lines out into the middle of the valley. In my head, this is rice field country so less urbanized, smaller towns, bus services. Also the single track line at renamitsu doesn't need to have a new junction, it can meet the 6 tracks further up. Your zone, so up to you but this is what I was thinking as I was building.

For context, the 'hs' lines are not really high speed. They are 130 kph lines to allow mini-shinkansens to branch off the high speed shinkansens lines and onto the mainlines. They are often a single standard gauge track that runs parallel to the existing narrow gauge line. That's the vibe I am suggesting for the lines from Kanazawa to Isesaki and Miyazaki... and beyond. (This... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ōu_Main_Line#Ōmagari–Akita_(51.7_km)).

[teal geyser]

So with that in mind, it could be pretty straightforward to run a single track of standard gauge next to the line from tunnels at our border into Miyazaki and beyond? Could be a decent challenge!

[peak cedar]

Yes yes, the 6 tracks up there are the junction for the single track line and the other line

[peak cedar]

Rice fields from the junction at Renamitsu towards the more hilly area it will be fields. Rest of the valley Renamitsu to the port and some of the coast + Isekai is going to be suburban and urban development

[teal geyser]

Awesome, look forward to what you come up with

[magic cape]

Why would it be there?

it doesn't make too much sense to have it loop around the mountains to come back there i think.

[peak cedar]

Most people would prefer to take the NG line from Isesaki to Musashino and transfer to Miyazaki instead of the shinkansen via Kanazawa, since it'd take longer

[teal geyser]

Fair enough, I'll temper my expectations on mini-shinkansens lol. It will just be the single line from Isesaki to Kanazawa.

[peak cedar]

Also how is the shink station at Toyooka made?

[teal geyser]

By the magic of dual guage. I'll grab a picture in a second, Openttd crashed on me.

[peak cedar]

Basing on how it is done I may have to modify Shin-isesaki slightly, since right now it only has one terminating platform and maybe it needs more (?)

and then just have two trough platforms instead of 4

or maybe Renamitsu can have a shinkansen station or a yard

[teal geyser]

Toyooka...

[peak cedar]

Interesting

[teal geyser]

I think this is the best idea...

[peak cedar]

Leave it as it is or do the 2-trough platform only idea

[teal geyser]

It depends what you are doing.... is this intended as a full shinkansen line from the NE? (if so you are using the wrong track... its only got a 160 limit)

[peak cedar]

Idea is full shink line from Oume, to Toyooka, and a mini shinkansen to your capital

[teal geyser]

How about terminate the Shinkansen at Isesaki instead, using your idea of 2 through, 4 terminating platforms.... mini-shink via Toyooka. it's too small for a full shinkansen and the terrain is very steep I had to reprofile the whole valley to make it look reasonable

[peak cedar]

Alright okay seems reasonable enough

Terminate at Isesaki and mini-shink to Toyooka and your capital

[teal geyser]

you got it. mini-shinks can run all the way to Oume!

[peak cedar]

4 terminating? Aren't they 3?

I'm not adding extra tracks

[teal geyser]

miscount... 3 and 2

no new tracks needed

[peak cedar]

I am thinking of having double track until a Shinkansen yard at Renamitsu (or somewhere nearby), thoughts?

Maybe Shin-isesaki can still conserve a third trough platform, but only for terminating trains (so no trough running but allows terminating from both sides)

[teal geyser]

Sure, gives options!

[teal geyser]

This one is tricky but I love a challenge of squeezing in a yard.

Renamitsu feels wrong

With some finessing and slight adjustments to the bridge, you could fit two sidings here. Depends how many you need overall I guess...

[peak cedar]

I won't run really really many shinkansen

[peak cedar]

You could maybe have two sidings for Shin-isesaki. for some express trains or something, I don't know

I like the two sidings idea there on the bridge, seems quite interesting

[teal geyser]

I didn’t realise those were shin tracks? I thought they were local tracks.

[peak cedar]

No no, they are NG tracks

[teal geyser]

Let me put them down and then when you’re back you can decide whether they stay or not 🙂

[peak cedar]

I originally thought of that tunnel thing to put a road on

If you want you can put a buffer on the outermost track of Shin - Isesaki SG area

[teal geyser]

I won’t do too much. It’s your area for your return. I have a list as long as my arm for the Kanazawa area to do!

[peak cedar]

Yes yes, sorry if I am holding up Kanazawa

Don't worry, I will be back in Monday

[teal geyser]

No apology needed. We have lots of time. I’m away for some of this weekend so I won’t be here.

[glacial comet]

Bold of you to assume through Mini-shinkansens won’t continue past Oume 👀

[peak cedar]

why shouldn't they

[glacial comet]

Someone will probably get on my back and say ‘oOh CaPaCiTy’

capacity my arse if we need more capacity then we reduce headways further

[peak cedar]

Line capacity is not a problem

Only if variable gauge trains existed in OpenTTD

[unreal blaze]

if only

well, couldnt that be coded like how multi-voltage trains are coded

[peak cedar]

Yeah that's true

But that would make specific trainsets work with specific tracksets only

[teal geyser]

That’s me just being unfamiliar with the map! Absolutely they can go as far as they need to… I want that!

[cobalt lintel]

im also part of this group btw

[peak cedar]

@teal geyser Heya hey as you probably saw I've finished the line to Toyooka, but no train running until I signal everything and place all stations

I've also built some highways

[teal geyser]

Sounds good, whenever you’re ready.. the highways are curvy!

[peak cedar]

Yes

[peak cedar]

heyya, @teal geyser @glacial comet , I have done the SG signalling from isesaki tunnel to toyooka

you can now run shink and mini shink trains

make sure they are on the shared company

[glacial comet]

yep

[peak cedar]

Signals are programmed too

by the way, I have set up a dual gauge platform at Renamitsu for mini-shinkansen services to/from Kanazawa terminating at Shin-Isesaki platform 4 to stop there

rest of services should pass trough the sg-only track

[glacial comet]

are the signals programmed so that happens automatically

or are there any special orders i gotta do

[peak cedar]

waypoints

there are 3 or 4 waypoints

so the programmed signals work you know

[glacial comet]

gucci

[peak cedar]

I've set a 30km/h limit at the Shin-isesaki curve, not sure if It's too slow

[teal geyser]

50 is the lowest I do, 30 takes forever.

Thanks for the setup!

[glacial comet]

yep

well guess i've got another mini shink to setup

hopefully this doesn't go kaboom like the isesaki one did

not isesaki

toyowhatever

chinchinshinshin

[peak cedar]

Toyohashi or something

[glacial comet]

bad news

due to my stupidity Onara (and all other mini shinks for that matter) won't run half-hourly but instead slightly botched 2tph

24,36 interval

good luck :DDD

[teal geyser]

Is this related to the 2 minute turnaround in Kanazawa? Could you add one more train and have it sit there or have it go to a siding for the time it has to wait?

Talking of which, overnight storage can happen at Kanazawa too

[glacial comet]

no no

this is due to it fitting into the rest of the shinkansen timetable

also uh

[teal geyser]

lol, yes we got to figure out where to have them pass each other

Or if they are infrequent we can prevent the lines being 2 way

[glacial comet]

also they're doing this in kanazawa

i think i forgor something

[teal geyser]

Perhaps the wp B_W

Throw that in before the Kanazawa order with a 0 tick travel time to Kanazawa

[glacial comet]

alr

for now i'm forcing all trains into that depot by removing the bypass track and set the yellow signal to reserve through

till you can sort something

[teal geyser]

Ok sounds good, is any thing leaping out to you as where they cross each other?

[glacial comet]

honestly i got a notification and clicked it and boom shaboom

haven't looked into it

[teal geyser]

Cool cool

[glacial comet]

im fixing 3 "jams" at once rn so uh not in a diagnostic mood

[teal geyser]

Totally understand

[glacial comet]

they do this here too

maybe some temp 1 way operation luca style would be fitting

or more simply just make allthe signals reserve through

[teal geyser]

If you are done with timing I can just take a look at times and plot some passing places

This looks like a good place to start haha

[glacial comet]

Yep times are done

(When they decide to show up)

[peak cedar]

preferrably where a station could go

[glacial comet]

due to bad timetabling on my end the times hasve been shifted again :((

but now its permanent till 320kmh era

[peak cedar]

Hey hey! Sorry I haven't joined in a while now

I have been taking a general break from everything

I will resume tomorrow

[cobalt lintel]

really starting to come together