#Who is better in their prime?

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

burnt vault
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lewis prime has been longer

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but for max we dont know how long his is

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i think

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max peak was higher

lavish otter
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Saying Verstappens peak was higher is basically saying that Hamilton peaked/was at 99% of his peak in 2021

trim pike
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What season would you argue is Hamilton's prime?

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2018?

lavish otter
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Yes

trim pike
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Not discrediting any of Lewis' peak years, but statistically 2022 and 2023 are better than most if not all of Lewis' championship-winning seasons

lavish otter
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Good thing F1 isn’t watched on paper then

restive thunder
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Not discrediting any of Lewis peak years but Max's were just better.

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Max beat Ascaris record for win %

lavish otter
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Does that really mean anything though

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I think a fair few drivers would win all the races Verstappen won in 2023

hexed osprey
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Verstappen had the fastest car built to him for the entirety of 2023

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Vettel’s Peak > Verstappen’s Peak

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Alonso’s Peak > Verstappen’s Peak

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Prost’s Peak > Verstappen’s Peak

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Reminder verstappen still cant defend or make an overtake lol

trim pike
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2018 may make a good argument for Lewis but Verstappen was flawless in 2023 despite having the best car, while the Vettel take is objectively wrong

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Verstappen beat his records

lavish otter
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Was he flawless?

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Did some random lawnmowing and was overtaken by both Mercedes in Australia

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Knocked out in Q2 in Singapore (no one is convincing me the Alpha Tauri was genuinely better)

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Didn’t even break the pole record despite the fastest car at every round bar one and a terrible qualifier as a teammate

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It was a very good season, one of the best, but it wasn’t flawless

trim pike
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Certainly closer to perfection than any other season in the 21st century at the very least

hexed osprey
trim pike
lavish otter
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No doubt Schumacher, Hamilton, Prost, Senna, Alonso would’ve done just as well

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Its kinda why it isn’t even prime Verstappen because of just how little pressure he was put under

trim pike
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Did you expect him to bottle races then?

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He had the fastest car and dominated several races with it

lavish otter
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No, but it just isn’t as impressive

trim pike
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We could use that same analogy for Hamilton's 2020 season to put it below 2018, the same way 2023 is put below 2021. Hamilton also had the fastest car in 2020, but 2020 wasn't as good as 2023.

Could also say that Vettel in 2018 wasn't even remotely as competitive as Hamilton was in 2021 relative to Verstappen. Vettel made a lot of mistakes and his team made a lot of mistakes.

lavish otter
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2020 probably would’ve been as good as 2023 if Hamilton had the Red Bull strategy team and didn’t get Covid

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And in 2018 Hamilton had far higher highs than Verstappen did in 2021

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You can’t even name a legendary Verstappen drive from that season

trim pike
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Could say the grand slam in Austria and the win in Zandvoort but there's a reason that 2021 isn't considered as Max's prime by quite a lot of people

lavish otter
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Theres no legendary Verstappen drive in 2023 either lol

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And the win in Zandvoort? Are we deadass

trim pike
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What would you consider legendary? Hamilton's win in Monza 2018 that came as a result of one driver fumbling and the other having a bad strategy, thus paving the way for him? Or Germany 2018 which don't get me wrong, he went from 14th to first, but it was once again a result of a rival fumbling

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I agree about Silverstone 2020 or Turkey 2020 but they're part of a different conversation

lavish otter
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And Singapore where he put in one of, if not the best qualifying lap of all time

trim pike
lavish otter
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Lol?

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He would’ve caught him with about 10 laps to go

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Its not even really up for debate whether he would’ve won or not, at that rate he would’ve won the race and then some

trim pike
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That would depend on the strategy Ferrari'd give Vettel on those damp conditions

lavish otter
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everyone would’ve gone to the end lol no it wouldn’t

restive thunder
restive thunder
lavish otter
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Posting a qualifying time in the fastest car that is less than 2 tenths quicker than Ocon in an alpine is not a legendary lap at all

sleek ember
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Yeah i dunno what @restive thunder is on about

restive thunder
lavish otter
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Ocon and Alpine didn’t have top 3 pace

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And you’re ignoring the fact that Verstappen was 2 tenths down in the first place

restive thunder
lavish otter
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doesn’t that just prove ferrari were faster as well as aston and rb lol

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leclerc qualified ahead of ocon anyway but got a grid penalty

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and if sainz had pieced together a halfway decent first sector then he’d be ahead too

sleek ember
restive thunder
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the difference is max put together an extremly quick lap and gapped the field when the field spread was a lot tigether than 2018

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and ocon and alpine had pace to challenge for top positons

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so max being not even 2 tenths quicker than them is not the insult to maxs lap you think it is

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by that logic i could say lewis only gapped max by 3 tenths in a time where the field spread was 2 seconds in q3

lavish otter
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it was obvious all weekend that red bull had the best car

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and to take pole by less than a tenth just isn’t that impressive

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anyone who saw that singapore 2018 lap live, and the reaction to it, knows that lap was unlike basically anything seen before

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mercedes, 3rd favourites headed into qualifying, hamilton heads out in q3, blitzes the entire field, doesn’t even need a second run

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the mercedes were nearly knocked out in q1 and then that happens, absolutely remarkable

restive thunder
restive thunder
restive thunder
restive thunder
restive thunder
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anyway im not going to argue about feelings and reactions anymore. gaining 3 tenths in the shortest sector on the track by a signifcant margin (the gap lewis put on max in signapore 2018 btw) during a time where the field was only seperated by 0.8 seconds is insane and worthy of being a legendary lap

lavish otter
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Its not 👍👍👍👍👍

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Also what does field spread mean when you’re in the fastest car

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Verstappen still had more advantage than Hamilton car wise in the laps so I’m not really getting how thats relevant

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And all the comments are only about the sector 3

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Its a great sector, against a great lap

restive thunder
# lavish otter Also what does field spread mean when you’re in the fastest car

field spread refers to how much of an advantage you have on the cars you are compeiting with, a large field spread means the top cars are much quicker than the cars behind and therefore the driver doesnt have the make much of a difference. if a car is 0.3s faster than p2 a driver doesnt have to drive as quickly than if a car is 0.01s faster than p2. if the driver in the 0.3 car makes a mistake worth 0.2s than he is still 0.1 faster than the car in p2 whereas the same could not be said in a tight field spread.

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the closer the field spread is the more a driver has to be perfect

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like signapore 2023, max was not perfect and got knocked out in q2 despite hacing a top 4 car because the field spread was so close

lavish otter
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If you have a slower car, then you have to be even more perfect to make up for the performance deficit

restive thunder
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good point actually

restive thunder