#Have Mclaren ruined racing?
lavish otter
i dont know what this poll for, like how does mclaren rn was any different from, say red bull 2010-2013/2022-2023 or mercedes 2014-2020?
last halo
the current state of f1 doesn’t offer much racing to ruin in the first place
karmic dew
lavish otter
implying that multi-21, rosberg-hamilton strats does not exist
last halo
icl im not exactly sure what people think would happen without papaya rules, do they just want the mclarens taking each other out every race or what
knotty crescent
icl im not exactly sure what people think would happen without papaya rules, do ...
i dislike papaya rules and i stand by it, we r here to see racing not a bunch of "Oh i got a slow pitstop, please let me thru" or "oohh u couldnt overtake him cleanly so u will face the consequences next race" bs. Also acting like they would take each other out every single is just blatant ignorance to cover papaya rules imo. there would be some races that it might happen. but in a title fight its NORMAL. if they cant cope up with it then they dont deserve it.
i would have genuinely crashed out if lando was asked to give back the position in singapore especially as mclaren have now actually confirmed that he was in the wrong
last halo
i dislike papaya rules and i stand by it, we r here to see racing not a bunch of...
at monza there was an agreement to not let piastri undercut in exchange for pitstop priority
thats just teamwork
and at singapore they did nothing in the race and agreed lando probably shouldn’t have made contact
its just basic team etiquette
the drivers are allowed to freely race each other, as seen in Canada, Austria, Hungary
and in all of those they didn’t just play it safe
knotty crescent
and at singapore they did nothing in the race and agreed lando probably shouldn’...
so u dont think if they would have asked for a swap if they had confirmed during the race that lando shouldnt have made contact? cmon
last halo
yeah they wouldn’t have lol?
knotty crescent
and in all of those they didn’t just play it safe
and i see nothing wrong with it
last halo
and they didn’t?
last halo
and i see nothing wrong with it
well yeah and they were allowed to do all that WITHIN papaya rules…
knotty crescent
yeah they wouldn’t have lol?
so they deemed lando was the one under mistake AFTER the race and told him he would face "consequences" for it but if they had came to the conclusion during the race u dont think they would have made him face the "consequences" then and there itself? yeah i comepletely disagree with ur point here
knotty crescent
well yeah and they were allowed to do all that WITHIN papaya rules…
why do we need papaya rules in the first place, they r TITLE RIVALS lmao. let them race freely. if one steps over the line u have the FIA taking care of it.
last halo
so they deemed lando was the one under mistake AFTER the race and told him he wo...
well they ran their own ‘investigation’ into it and probably just made lando take blame afterwards to keep oscar happy lol
last halo
why do we need papaya rules in the first place, they r TITLE RIVALS lmao. let th...
but they won’t ALWAYS be title rivals
they are teammates
knotty crescent
well they ran their own ‘investigation’ into it and probably just made lando tak...
yeah and how could u defend papaya rules after that lmao
last halo
if they get in a situation next year where one outperforms the other and they need assistance then having a free skirmish this year is going to be insanely detrimental
knotty crescent
but they won’t ALWAYS be title rivals
they r title rivals THIS season, and by the looks of it it can be their only chance too, cuz we dont know what lies in the future
last halo
yeah and how could u defend papaya rules after that lmao
wdym their investigation in race yielded the same results as the fia
its just driver management tactics
ultimately the on track outcome was the right one so who cares
knotty crescent
wdym their investigation in race yielded the same results as the fia
their investigation after the race has hurt lando....
last halo
no it hasn’t lol
knotty crescent
its just driver management tactics
a very shit one by the looks of it
last halo
they r title rivals THIS season, and by the looks of it it can be their only cha...
yeah it would be really smart for mclaren to let their drivers fight each other and completely savage their relationship
in the current state they can race
knotty crescent
a very shit one by the looks of it
u really think lando deserved to take the blame for that incident?
last halo
there is a difference between racing and fighting
last halo
u really think lando deserved to take the blame for that incident?
no, but if lando is willing to accept blame to keep oscar happy, then its fine
knotty crescent
yeah it would be really smart for mclaren to let their drivers fight each other ...
me as a driver would rather have a title in my hands than a good relationship with my teammate.
knotty crescent
in the current state they can race
yeah we will see for the next 6 races how well of a "race" they show us
last halo
me as a driver would rather have a title in my hands than a good relationship wi...
okay but you’re looking at this from a) your personal perspective and b) a drivers perspective
knotty crescent
okay but you’re looking at this from a) your personal perspective and b) a drive...
both very valid perspectives too and perspective b) holds way more VALUE than the teams perspective
last halo
lol?
no it doesn’t?
why in rules for a team would a drivers perspective hold more value
knotty crescent
maybe cuz they r the ones driving for them? and as a tp i would want my drivers to feel satisfied with the team at the end of the day
ok a genuine question: how did merc handle it in 2016?
last halo
they let their drivers do whatever they wanted
last halo
maybe cuz they r the ones driving for them? and as a tp i would want my drivers ...
any driver would be scrambling at a chance to drive the mclaren lol
its not as if they’re protecting the 2 best drivers on the grid
the team is infinitely more valuable to the drivers than the drivers are to the team
knotty crescent
its not as if they’re protecting the 2 best drivers on the grid
then y care about their relationship then?
knotty crescent
the team is infinitely more valuable to the drivers than the drivers are to the ...
not every team, nope. take a look at redbull
knotty crescent
they let their drivers do whatever they wanted
and what was wrong with it?
last halo
then y care about their relationship then?
because they don’t want to be chopping and changing every season
last halo
and what was wrong with it?
they literally lost the reigning world champion at the end of the season on incredibly short notice
knotty crescent
because they don’t want to be chopping and changing every season
but if any driver would be "scrambling" for a chance to drive the mclaren that wouldnt be an issue would it?
last halo
i mean it would because they would have no continuity
its ok to happen once but you don’t want it happening multiple times
knotty crescent
they literally lost the reigning world champion at the end of the season on incr...
it was his own decision...
last halo
yeah and whos to say piastri/norris don’t fall out and one (or both) leave if they were fighting like in 2016?
knotty crescent
its ok to happen once but you don’t want it happening multiple times
it happening multiple times is just an "if" and i dont see y they cant do that
last halo
mercedes in 2016 was obviously not a healthy way to run a team
knotty crescent
yeah and whos to say piastri/norris don’t fall out and one (or both) leave if th...
then its their loss lmao, like u said it wouldnt be hard to find a replacement
last halo
they would’ve lost the following drivers championship had rosberg stayed
the sides of the garage were literally opposed with one another
knotty crescent
they would’ve lost the following drivers championship had rosberg stayed
well if u have to equally paced drivers u would expect that to happen, if u dont want such a ruckus then u shouldnt have equal drivers.
last halo
Or you could have equal drivers and papaya rules
And it could work for your team
And the only people unhappy with it are the fans at home 👍👍👍
knotty crescent
And it could work for your team
but not for the drivers or the people watching
knotty crescent
And the only people unhappy with it are the fans at home 👍👍👍
which was the entire point of the poll lmao
last halo
but not for the drivers or the people watching
It works pretty well for the drivers
They’re both in world championship contention and have a long term deal with the best team in the sport
The rules don’t ‘ruin racing’, they just don’t make room for drama
Which is what people want, not racing
knotty crescent
It works pretty well for the drivers
oh yeah both the driver's love the papaya rules and completely agree with every decision they take right?
last halo
well clearly they like it enough to sign long term deals at the team… so uhh yeah
knotty crescent
The rules don’t ‘ruin racing’, they just don’t make room for drama
punishing a driver for a slight touch is not racing
last halo
he wasn’t punished on track so who cares
knotty crescent
well clearly they like it enough to sign long term deals at the team… so uhh yea...
then they shouldnt be complaining about it
last halo
actually, let’s use the rosberg-hamilton example to show what is allowed and not allowed in papaya rules, and what people want and don’t want
bahrain 2014 (best w2w battle of the decade) - allowed
austria 2016, spa 2014 (took a driver out the race) - not allowed
knotty crescent
he wasn’t punished on track so who cares
its not about if he was punished or not its about how they have enforced the rules,
and by the looks of it they have done a very bad job
last halo
see, most people here would expect that bahrain 2014 would be what people want
but clearly it isn’t
not that bahrain 2014 is possible in these cars
knotty crescent
see, most people here would expect that bahrain 2014 would be what people want
i disagree, most people would love to see a bahrain 2014 and if that somehow ends producing a spain 2016 or a spa 2014 here and there, ITS FINE. ITS RACING.
thats what its all about
cmon now they r in the pinnacle of motorsport, they r not gonna crash into their teammate every single race if they can avoid it
they know how to drive
last halo
i disagree, most people would love to see a bahrain 2014 and if that somehow end...
well mclaren allow that to happen
as shown by austria
they were allowed to race w2w
and the only time mclaren intervened was when oscar nearly took both cars out of the race
knotty crescent
well mclaren allow that to happen
well they didnt in australia
also allowing them to race wasnt my only concern in how shit the papaya rules r
last halo
they did once they cleared the backmarkers
knotty crescent
they did once they cleared the backmarkers
they asked piastri to hold position when he was within 5 tenths of lando, but after oscar dropped the gap to 2 seconds they agreed for them to race.
last halo
yeah because they were getting through backmarkers
knotty crescent
not like we have never seen drivers fight when they r overtaking backmarkers
last halo
but it would be pretty stupid to let your drivers fight through backmarkers in the wet
knotty crescent
if the drivers can handle it then, y not? i would suppose a driver is smart enough to know when to finght and when not to
last halo
your drivers probably couldn’t handle it because both drivers proceeded to leave the track a few laps later
and one spun out of a podium position
knotty crescent
your drivers probably couldn’t handle it because both drivers proceeded to leave...
it was an unfortunate incident, which can happen to anyone. they raced pretty well in every other rain filled race this season didnt they?
last halo
they didn’t really do any wheel to wheel racing in any of the other wet races
knotty crescent
they didn’t really do any wheel to wheel racing in any of the other wet races
my point was that they r talented enough to race in wet condition
last halo
well they clearly aren’t if their singular wet battle ended the way it did
knotty crescent
well they clearly aren’t if their singular wet battle ended the way it did
they werent battling when they went off
last halo
well, they were pushing
knotty crescent
well, they were pushing
they were pushing in every other wet track asw