Who is best?

[cloud hollow]

I think they are all future world campion material

[fierce linden]

Its leclerc russell norris and the top 2 are pretty clear of lando

[glad haven]

Agreed

[glad haven]

I feel lando and leclerc are close, and George is Slightly behind them.

[calm peak]

leclerc
russell
norris

[little rapids]

I don't know why everybody thinks Lando is such a bad driver when he demonstrates otherwise constantly

I'd say Russell is underrated, and they're all really close to each other

[fierce linden]

Lando is just not as consistent as the other 2

I mean, look at Brazil for instance, the Ferrari was horrible and Leclerc still finished 5th

Or Baku, where the Mercedes was 4th fastest and Russell managed to finish on the podium

Meanwhile Norris has unfortunately thrown away numerous opportunities this season to score big points, something Russell and Leclerc have already largely refined out of their driving

[little rapids]

Examples?

[glad haven]

To be fair, leclerc and Russel aren't all that consistent either. They have their own off days aswell.

[little rapids]

Lando's errors have just been more in the spotlight

[glad haven]

Though got to give it to leclerc, he has been more consistent this year than last few years

[glad haven]

That's cause of all the hate on social media

[little rapids]

Yh

[little rapids]

Exactly

[glad haven]

I don't see anyone criticizing leclerc for going wide in mexico and losing a place to lando, but lando was criticized so much for "nearly binning" singapore, which he won regardless.

[glad haven]

Baku? Lando finished 4th starting p15, ahead of his championship rival, and also incredibly helped Oscar in the process. George got a free podium because of perez-sainz crash

[fierce linden]

Imola, Spain, Monaco, Silverstone, Spa, Monza, COTA, Brazil

All partially or wholly his fault

[fierce linden]

Because leclerc going wide didn’t matter

He would’ve lost the position anyway

[fierce linden]

In Baku George finished on the podium because he drove an exceptional race

[glad haven]

Norris "almost binning " singapore didn't matter either, he still won. By 20s......

[fierce linden]

There’s a reason he benefited from the chaos, not max or lando

[glad haven]

Aka Perez and sainz crashed

[fierce linden]

Hence why it isn’t listed in my errors

[glad haven]

No I was giving an example of how lando's mistakes come in the spotlight but others don't.

[fierce linden]

I think the other 6 mistakes he has made come more in the spotlight than that one

[glad haven]

Max's car was shit and ocon engine failure caused lando to start p15......

[fierce linden]

Max’s car was not shit

Perez was contending for the WIN before he retired

[glad haven]

That is true 🤔

I don't know what was max doing that weekend then

[glad haven]

Monaco? What did lando do in Monaco?

[fierce linden]

Qualified 4th

[glad haven]

And? Finished 4th didn't he?

[fierce linden]

Got outqualified by a notoriously slow qualifier in the most important qualifying session of the season

[glad haven]

I mean piastri had a steller lap doesn't mean lando made a mistake. Ferrari was faster any day

[fierce linden]

well yeah but its still not ideal

even if you ignore that one, there’s seven examples there

[glad haven]

And I don't remember what happened in spa? I know he was having a very hard time that entire weekend in general, but did he make a major blunder?

I don't think he did

[fierce linden]

He ran wide at the start

Lost 3 or 4 places

[glad haven]

Ahh right,

But he did regain them eventually. But alright yea that counts as a mistake

[fierce linden]

He regained one of them, the other two cars finished ahead

Albeit one was Russell who was disqualified

[glad haven]

Right, yea I had forgotten that

Anyway lastly Imola. He fought hard, I feel got the best he could.

[fierce linden]

he had a faster car and wasted its potential by not pushing hard enough in the final stint

so much tyre potential left at the end

[glad haven]

He pushed as hard as possible

It was a battle well fought

You win some, you lose some

[fierce linden]

He finished behind in a faster car.

[glad haven]

Max was really good, it wasn't lando making mistakes

He didn't like bottle the start, or had a incident or anything.

[fierce linden]

Yes but he still finished behind in a faster car

[glad haven]

Faster car doesn't always = win

And at that time, Red Bull wasn't like shitty, Max was still dominant.

[fierce linden]

That has happened to Leclerc (through fault of his own) once this season. It has happened to Russell three times through his own fault with one being questionable.

Lando has done that 7 times with one being questionable

[little rapids]

Imola - ?
Spain - ?
Monaco - ?
Silverstone - indecision by the team, so they asked him and put him under pressure to make a tyre choice
Spa - small wide moment
Monza - ?
COTA - made a (by the racing guidelines illegal) overtake, which he probably wouldn't have kept if he'd handed it back so worth pushing for the 5s gap
Brazil - two small wide moments
? = elaborate on what the mistake was

[little rapids]

Wouldn't agree

[glad haven]

👏👏💯💯

[fierce linden]

Imola - didn’t push hard enough. Was catching loads by the end.
Spain - awful start letting 2 cars past, he admitted it cost him the race.
Monaco - bad qualifying where he was outqualified by his teammate, a notoriously slow qualifier, at the most important qualifying session of the season. That one is debatable though we’ll let him off.
Silverstone - overshot his pit box
Monza - start. Messed it up.

Oh, Silverstone was also a tyre preparation error. As demonstrated by Lewis Hamilton.

[glad haven]

Monza again, it was more of Oscar's brilliance than lando making a mistake

[fierce linden]

He got caught napping lol

[glad haven]

Mate, he avoided a double dnf for mclaren

[little rapids]

Imola - would say there was no sign of lack of pushing
Spain - was a poor start but the slipstream is always advantageous to those behind
Monaco - wouldn't say Oscar is notoriously bad at quali but it wasn't a mistake
Silverstone - slight error but the team strategy cost him more
Monza - again, hard to defend against lap 1 slipstream, there was nothing he could have done to avoid getting passed really without risking contact

[fierce linden]

He also had a moment on the exit of turn 2

That compromised his run

[little rapids]

People focus much more on Lando's errors since Max is one of the most consistent drivers around

[fierce linden]

We aren’t talking about Max.

[glad haven]

Absolutely agreed 💯

[little rapids]

Why aren't we saying Max is terrible after he got beaten by Hulkenberg in a Haas to P7 in the Qatar sprint

[fierce linden]

We’re talking about maximising car performance, in comparison to Leclerc and Russell

[glad haven]

He sumed up what I was trying to say much better than me 🙂

[fierce linden]

And if you look at who maximises the car, you’d back either of them any day over Lando

[little rapids]

I don't think Lando consistently fails to maximise that - he's definitely not perfect, but not terrible relative to Leclerc and Russell

[glad haven]

And not to mention he lost 2 places at T1

[little rapids]

Thanks 😁

[fierce linden]

I also don’t get this discourse around ‘Silverstone was a strategy error’. Lando was on Hamilton’s winning strategy.

Sure, there was a better one available, but it shouldn’t have mattered

[little rapids]

I'm not saying that Max deserves the same amount of criticism as Lando, more that Lando deserves the same (lower) amount of criticism as Max

[little rapids]

It could have got him the win or at least kept his p2

[fierce linden]

On the soft tyres he should’ve been able to hold P2 anyway

[glad haven]

Silverstone was a strategical blunder. The only thing lando could have done better is, he shouldn't have lost the place to max.

[fierce linden]

In fact, without the jumping the pit box he would’ve come out in the lead.

[glad haven]

But didn't u say these are lando's "mistakes"

[fierce linden]

Yes, if you don’t maximise car performance you have made an error somewhere.

Well, you or the team.

[little rapids]

It would have been very close, and Lando dropped 7s anyway

[little rapids]

I wouldn't necessarily agree but ok

[fierce linden]

Yeah because he cooked his tyres

[glad haven]

Ita not fair to generalize it like that.

@fierce linden tell me this. Did Max win Imola because he drove a very good race or did he win because lando made an error?
did Oscar qualify ahead of lando in Monaco because Oscar put up a very good lap or was it because lando made a mistake?

[fierce linden]

its both

in both examples

[glad haven]

See now that's where it gets unfair. U are undermining Oscar's and Max's very good performance. And for what? Just so you can claim that to be lando's mistake somewhere. Thats so not fair for both of them.

[fierce linden]

its perfectly fair that I analyse a driver not extracting peak performance from the car as an error