no

[wooden grail]

I'm not sure how anyone can ever say yes 💀

[junior dagger]

ik

just want a 100%/0% poll for once

because for some reason everyone can't agree that the best plane variations are the one without wings

[boreal token]

He was just lucky

There's no need to talk about if he deserve of not lol

That's the race

[untold ridge]

The guys in front were doing stupid shit and he won

Theres no “deserve”

[wooden grail]

nvm 💀

[junior dagger]

how is this nearly 50/50 😭

[simple raft]

If George crossed the line first then he deserves to win

Bullshit like the things between Max-Lando don't deprive him of that he officially took P1 in the race

If he finished where he standed then thats where he deserves to be

[junior dagger]

staying in third place for 95% of the race and overtaking in the when the two drivers ahead of you take eachother out isn't deserved

[wooden grail]

he drove a good race

deserved the p3

but he inherited the win

never had the pace to win

[simple raft]

If he's able to keep it clean given the conditions then he deserves to win

[wooden grail]

no it means he won

[simple raft]

thats like saying lando and carlos don't deserve their wins this year

[wooden grail]

Lando had the pace to win in miami

and pulled away from max

Carlos was less deserved but max retired so early he had to do an entire race after it anyway

[simple raft]

George also had a whole race to drive lmao

[wooden grail]

Russell had decent pace all race but all he had to do was drive 5 or 6 laps of Austria in the lead

[wooden grail]

not in the lead

he was 14s behind the leaders

Lando always had the pace in Miami

Australia is different cuz

brake go boom literally as race starts

[simple raft]

Geroge had a car well behind the pace of Mclaren and Verstappen, then he was given the cards to get by them

He took the chance he was given and so if he finishes ahead then he deserves it

[wooden grail]

well yeah his car was slower but that's the point

if Logan sargeant wins cuz everyone else retires is that deserved?

[simple raft]

no if hes in p20 not doing shit

[wooden grail]

he has a much slower car but that doesn't make it deserved because to win in F1 on merit you need a fast driver and a fast car

[fathom venture]

Russell won by not making a mistake

[wooden grail]

is that not the bare minimum for a driver

Russell drove a great race

[fathom venture]

Yes, but the 2 cars ahead of him apparently reached that below minimum category

[lucid mesa]

50/50 is crazy

[wooden grail]

comfortably ahead of piastri

fair play

he had great pace

[junior dagger]

ik 😭

[wooden grail]

but nowhere near the leaders

[wooden grail]

well max not lando

[simple raft]

oh so norrif deserves the win then

could have said that from the start

[fathom venture]

Lando also fumbled a couple of times, though they were apparently not enough to cause a huge accident and be granted a penalty

[wooden grail]

Norris deserved the win more than Russell for sure

[fathom venture]

He's rather reckless I'd say, which is fair Ig

Both drivers seemedpretty desperate for that win

[wooden grail]

but that's racing isnt it, he gave positions back if he went off

[simple raft]

Norris didn't deserve the win since Max had a pitstop issue completely unrelated to him then?

[wooden grail]

question is did Russell deserve the win

[fathom venture]

He did give the position back, yeah. But that doesn't remove the fact that he fumbled

[wooden grail]

not s much as lando

[simple raft]

There are too many what ifs so just directly go with "the person who literally wins deserves the win"

[wooden grail]

or max

[fathom venture]

Fr, if my mum had balls she'd be my dad

[simple raft]

lando doesn't deserve it because of max's pit stop

so then just go with max deserves it over lando

[wooden grail]

yeah you can argue that but you can also argue max threw away his win

[wooden grail]

because imo Russell did nothing to deserve his win except keep driving

[simple raft]

lando took advantage of max's pit stop and made a collision that was at least his fault by a smaller extent

[wooden grail]

when did Lando collide with max

[simple raft]

russell and lando both "just kept driving"

[wooden grail]

Lando was trying to overtake

different to driving alone

[simple raft]

you can't say that the lando-max collision was completely max's fault

[fathom venture]

And failing on multiple occasions

[fallen ingot]

hell yeah he deserved it

Lando got aggressive and Max crashed into him

George for the win

let’s go

[wooden grail]

okay? your point is what exactly

[native rivet]

if max or lando had an issue which led them to dnf which was out of their power then russell didnt deserve it, lando and max went full elbows out and paid the price so neither deserved it

[simple raft]

max made a mistake and lando shouldn't have event been in a position to overtake him anyways

george made no mistakes

[junior dagger]

the point is that George did literally nothing to win besides just driving

[wooden grail]

yes

[junior dagger]

he wasn't keeping up with the leaders

[wooden grail]

George took advantage of situation yes

[simple raft]

so did lando and where did he end up

[junior dagger]

he wasn't in contention for first until the crash

[simple raft]

lando took advantage of max's bad pitstop????

[fathom venture]

"Trying" isn't enough to decide whether someone is worthy of something. Everyone on the grid is trying. The top teams are fighting for podiums, midfielders are fighting for points, and backmarkers are fighting to not finish last

[wooden grail]

he kept up with the leader in the last stint

[simple raft]

lando also wasn't in contention to win until the pitstop??????

[junior dagger]

george's performance was hard to be considered trying imo

[fathom venture]

You can "try" to beat Verstappen in an f1 race way harder than him. And no matter how much effort Verstappen is putting in, he's going to win that race because he's simply better. He deserved that win not by trying harder, but by being better

[frosty burrow]

I don’t think merc had the pace to keep up with red bull and mclaren in the first place. All things considered, to finish first, first you must finish. That’s how races work. Lando abused the track limits, Max got as aggressive as Lando and they both crashed. George won by keeping consistent and ahead of all the other cars.

[simple raft]

you can't estimate george's maximum in the car when its off the pace of the 2 leaders

[wooden grail]

yh that's fair which is why people should probably refer to it as like

Lando + mclaren

max + red bull

because it's the driver and car package

[junior dagger]

now we're back to the question of Sargeant deserving a win if everyone else DNF'd

[simple raft]

immediately assuming "he was just driving" just says that you think that he had a poor performance when in reality it was fine

if he is able to keep the win on the pace ahead of oscar and carlos then he gets it fair and square

[wooden grail]

no but he never did anything to win

[wooden grail]

never said it was unfair

and I said he had a great race

[fathom venture]

If all other 19 drivers crashed into each other, I'd assume that'd create a huge mess. Being able to survive a 19 car pile-up is quite an impressive feat, I'd say

[simple raft]

every single driver always drives to the maximum and max and lando just ended up wrong place wrong time

so supposedly max doesn't bahrain because all he did was drive

[wooden grail]

or there's a 19 car pileup and Logan is so far behind he can make it through

[wooden grail]

he drove as the fastest driver

[simple raft]

hamilton doesn't deserve to podium in singapore because all he did was drive

[fathom venture]

So if he wasn't putting in as much effort as the others, yet still get the win. Doesn't that... make him a good driver in a way?

THink about it, that means he doesn't even have to try to win

[wooden grail]

yeah cuz without even putting the effort in hes quick enough to win

[fathom venture]

tututu du george russell 🔥

[wooden grail]

that inherently makes him a very good driver

anyways ultimately it doesn't matter landos still P2 and will get more wins this year

[fathom venture]

That.. kind of reinforces my point?

[frosty burrow]

if all other drivers fuck up, he’d be the most deserving. the minimum expectation of a driver is to finish the race. if you don’t finish it, you won’t get the results you want. ever.

[simple raft]

you cant make this stupid logan hypothetical since your example is just a fantasy

[wooden grail]

I get that if everyone was at fault

[fathom venture]

Back to my previous analogy. You can try to beat verstappen in an f1 race. And no matter how hard you push yourself and the car, verstappen is gonna get out on top, even if he's not trying at all. In this scenario, Verstappen deserved the win not because he tried harder, but because he is better

[simple raft]

meanwhile im asking you whether or not past results like hamilton singapore 2023 are bullshit since "drivers don't deserve their positions since all they do is drive"

[wooden grail]

not sure how it does but it doesn't matter anymore what's happened has happened and we are never gonna agree so no point knocking heads for no reason

[wooden grail]

it's more nuanced than that tho

[simple raft]

is it really?

[wooden grail]

Singapore 2023 is different because Russell threw away his position on his own

this is different because max threw away his win and took another guy out

if max hadn't hit Lando but had DNFed himself Lando would have won

[simple raft]

max threw it away on his own and lando kept pushing for a collision

[wooden grail]

Lando kept...racing...

in a motor race

[simple raft]

George was driving

in a car race

[wooden grail]

yeah

driving slower than the leaders

[simple raft]

they were both driving

[wooden grail]

not fighting for the win

[simple raft]

one of them kept trying to pass and paid a price

[wooden grail]

so what should Lando do

if he doesn't attack he's not trying hard enough

if he tries and gets taken out he's pushing for a collision

[simple raft]

not send it from miles back

[wooden grail]

damned if you do damned if you dont

[simple raft]

dont send it around the outside

wait till turn 4 which is better

[wooden grail]

why can't he?

he kept his car under control

no contact

[simple raft]

in the sprint he literally overtook max in t3 and got overtaken immediately after

[wooden grail]

the effectiveness of his move could be debated for days

[wooden grail]

yeah but are we talking about the sprint?

[simple raft]

he decided to do it again and instead of getting passed again he instead collided

[wooden grail]

different circumstances, different move

[simple raft]

lando doesn't deserve the win if he's out of the fucking race

[wooden grail]

but ultimately Lando made a perfectly safe, controlled and legal move

[simple raft]

both lando and george took initiative and lando made the risk

[wooden grail]

anyways

[simple raft]

there is always risk in overtaking

[wooden grail]

no point arguing

when we are never gonna agree

George won

[simple raft]

yeah its already happened and guess who won

[wooden grail]

he won fair and square and I won't take that away from him

[lucid mesa]

this is like that one guy

i forgot his name

i think it was the 2002 winter olympics speed skating finals

he won cause eveyone else crashed

[opal fjord]

"To finish first, first you have to finish."

[lucid mesa]

🗣️🗣️🗣️

[hot copper]

171 messages y'all yapping

[smoky laurel]

why are people saying no ☠️

[untold ridge]

The only thing we can talk about is if piastris time wasnt deleted he would have probably won

[lucid mesa]

Fs

[native rivet]

if my grandma had balls she'd be my grandpa