f1-technical

[tulip isle]

@mystic pebble when you said college, do you mean uni?

[obtuse hollow]

Whats with the fuel being at a certain temp and how do teams keep it that temperature

[mild iron]

what do the engine settings actually change

[wintry pollen]

How do they raise the car when the pit crew has to change the front wing?

[viscid shoal]

since the famous party mode from Mercedes was banned since Italy 2020 and only one engine mode for the entire weekend now is allowed, the only variability I can think of is in ERS usage

[formal estuary]

Ers passive mode usage can be increased as well as the active overtake mode usage.

[jagged horizon]

Ers usage and throttle mapping possibly

[mystic pebble]

Yep

[jagged horizon]

What are you a recruiter?

[mystic pebble]

No I need some advice 😂

[jagged horizon]

What would you like to know? I do engineering

[viscid shoal]

yeah

[short ether]

Is mercs instability related to the sidepod design? Due to it increasing the flow a lot around the bottom but lessening it around the sides?

[noble laurel]

Will the 2022 F1 car make the Spanish GP great?

[graceful sun]

No

It’s like polishing shit

The track has no heavy braking zone

It’s all just high speed to medium speed corners

[noble laurel]

no exiting overtakes?

[edgy anchor]

It has no heavy braking zones+

Other than T1, T4, T5, T10 and T14

[gloomy light]

is Redbull gonna be invincible again ?

[viral prawn]

Lmao

[opaque mulch]

Guys is there anyway I could contact a team for technical and engineering advice??

For context, we are gonna build a scaled down wind tunnel in class, but I know there’s some specifications we need to meet in order for it to work correctly

Now, it has been really hard for me to find enough information in research papers around the internet

So I was wondering if I could email or something to teams like Ferrari, Red Bull or Mercedes, that are known to have their own wind tunnel

Btw, any help from someone else would be nice 👍

[viral prawn]

Hmm

Worth a try ig, what's the worst that can happen? They ignore your email

[strange hill]

Hi there

[fringe hull]

@opaque mulch I think looking for someone on LinkedIn could be good idea. I've searched sites and you can contact only corporate. Always worth trying but I doubt they will be interested in helping you since corporate probably thinks it's forbidden knowledge

[marble osprey]

there are also private wind tunnels that some teams like alpha and haas use that you might be able to contact

think the one some teams use is based out of california

dont remember the name though

[wintry pollen]

How do they raise the car when the pit crew has to change the front wing?

[prisma dome]

https://youtu.be/WXEeySwuiTQ

[civic fern]

https://youtu.be/Sx5BQjKvElk

If that doesnt satisfy you, consider shooting Adrian Newey an email

Quite likely it’ll end up in Spam

But he did the same sort of thing back when he was a student, writing letters to Gordon Murray

So if anyones going to reply, its probably him

[opaque mulch]

Oh thanks for the vid and the info

[edgy anchor]

https://twitter.com/scarbstech/status/1524397030445129729?s=21&t=WeJbUEK8U677rhKdCpwgug

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

Found these pictures of a Ferrari 2020 #F1 piston and rod from the @HOFCollection Insta page.
Look carefully at the piston crown, you can see the starburst pattern @MAHLE_Group jet ignition (pre chamber)

Likes

192

Twitter · May 11, 2022, 2:32 PM

[wintry pollen]

Thanks!

[silent harness]

does anyone know the gearbox’s gear ratio of McLaren MP4/4 IRL?

cuz i need those data for one of my game

[deft burrow]

you could email mclaren

outside of general info, a lot of the technical stuff would rely on you having to get in touch with the team, or possibly other game developers who've already made one

[leaden timber]

During ImolaGp commentary Crofty and Horner discussed about 'overtake delta' or pace difference required to make a pass. How can we calculate this metric for different circuits?

[edgy anchor]

Wdym calculate?

Isn't it just the pace above the car ahead?

[leaden timber]

I'm taking Miami circuit as an example to calculate the overtake delta. The total circuit length is 5412m and the maximum length of car is 5.76m. I'm considering the fastest lap on the circuit as the reference, which is 1:28.796s or 88.796s.

The average speed = Circuit length (5412) / Fastest lap time (88.796) is about 60.949m/s.

Car length + gap length = 5.76m + 1m = 6.76

For calculating the pace difference, it is (car length + gap length) / average speed = 0.111s.

But I know this is wrong, because cars can't overtake at several parts of the track, so how do we calculate mathematically?

[silent harness]

is it impossible to get the data?

[drowsy nacelle]

Take historic, extrapolate as per your understanding of the new cars

Add correction factors as you progress from 1 race to another to understand and get better at predicting car dynamics around corners and straights

Your score should improve in the longer run

Almost feels like deja vu though, didn't someone try that on YT

[leaden timber]

Could you please find the youtube video? I searched on YT for 'formula1 overtake delta' 'formula1 overtake pace difference' but couldn't find any relevant results

[jagged horizon]

By that logic it is a slow overtake throughout the entire lap, inching up a few centimetres a second through the whole lap which doesn't happen. Would be better to compare minisector times in overtaking zones and more specifically the ability to carry a pace delta through the corners leading up to the overtaking zone

[civic fern]

I think its just better off using speed difference and gap between start and finish of a straight

[leaden timber]

https://tracinginsights.substack.com/p/why-hamilton-lost-out-to-george-in?s=w

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fbb16348f-b93c-4622-9d6b-128763d54ef1_1198x718.png

In this post, I explain the pace difference between mediums and hard, also how hamilton lost out to George due to safety car

[short ether]

Barcelona is a Ferrari circuit or a Red Bull circuit ?

Who’s favourite

[wintry pollen]

Last sector is definitely Ferrari

[short ether]

ok thanks

[civic fern]

Well, the whole reason why Barcelona is such a good test track is that its fairly balanced between high speed, medium speed, and low speed corners

So in theory, cars of equal overall pace should be equally fast around it

And that the main differences between cars of the same “class” (i.e. championship contenders, midfield, backmarkers) is likely due to better setup over one design being outright better than the other

[short ether]

Where can I find data on the brakes of f1 teams, such as break temperature and quality? I’m thinking of writing an research paper on lockups

[drowsy nacelle]

Hey sorry I am replying a little bit late

I couldnt find the exact vid, might spend some time later

But I found some beautiful links

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/nf4jkq/f1_overtaking_database_19942020/

https://mlusiak.com/f1-race-strategy-ml-net-bahrain/

[leaden timber]

I used this data in my post here: https://tracinginsights.substack.com/p/who-is-the-best-over-taker-of-the?s=w

[leaden timber]

Thank you for sharing, looks interesting

[blissful yarrow]

What do the new changes for this year actually change about racing. Like I know closer racing, but how do bigger wheels mean closer racing. I'm new to F1 so explain in stupid terms lol

[edgy anchor]

1. No, no stupid, no
2. The aerodynamics are simplified up top, with cleaner surfaces, and made to be more developed underneath. The topside of a car primarily makes drag and turbulence because it's in the way of air. whereas underneath the airflow is allowed to primarily expand and follow a clean surface after being contracted, so it's downforce is alot more efficient

This not only makes the cars more slippery, their wake has less of that turbulence/dirty air which would stall out the aero components of the car behind

3. The tyres & wheels have been made taller and lower profile predominantly to copy road car trends and F2 and whatnot, however having less profile means the tyre deforms less, which is better for drag as the tyre won't balloon as much but is worse for mechanical grip as you don't have the slip angle

slip angle referring to how much the tread can twist to still follow the direction of the road/car, when the wheel is turned slightly more or less

So they're able to be less of an inconvenience to the air, so they're less of an inconvenience to eachother

[blissful yarrow]

Oh wow, thanks thats very helpful

why the smaller wing, is that to do with simplifying of the top for drag?

[heady pulsar]

What will happen to a constructor if the FIA decides that their whole car is illegal?

[spice eagle]

Sainz getting overtaken is incorrect he lost 5 places in Australia then he crashed. Sed sainz

Oh wait first lap unavailable

[merry delta]

if that happens, the team might as well not exist

[heady pulsar]

o

[merry delta]

if I'm not mistaken, in current times, the FIA has access to CAD drawings to determine if things abide by the regulations or not

[heady pulsar]

can they enter with a new car?

[merry delta]

that, I don't know

[heady pulsar]

k

[merry delta]

but if a team screwed up that hard, then it's either a bad discontinuity in the regulations or a team was just being really stupid

[blissful yarrow]

What would've happened if in the last race of 2021 max and lewis dnfd

[prisma dome]

max would still have won the championship

[spice eagle]

so there are 2 cases there. if they dnf when lewis was in lead in the last lap or dnf after max overtook on last lap

[spice eagle]

there could be a case where the dnf at turn 5 where the overtake happened

[spice eagle]

what if they dnfd at turn 5 with classification as ham and then ver. in that case due to some cars being one lap down, the race would end with carlos winning. if carlos sainz overtakes danny ric b4 completing the final lap. in that case ric would be classified as a lap down of ham and max making ham p10 and max p11. that would have given ham 1 pt

and hence the championship

check out wtf1's video on that

[blissful yarrow]

Oh right

[paper wing]

Congrats @blissful yarrow, you're now on lap 5

[prisma dome]

max 384.5 P
ham 382.5 P
in saudi

[spice eagle]

they were 369.5 as far as i remember

each

[crimson granite]

well that’s wrong

max finished the season with 395.5 points

based on the image you sent that would mean max scored 11 points in Abu Dhabi

and the whole talking point before the weekend was that they were level on points

[prisma dome]

https://www.formula1points.com/season/season-progression/2021

[crimson granite]

uh that seems to be wrong

nobody scored more than 400 points

[spice eagle]

that seems incorrect or fake

check f1's website

for real ones

[crimson granite]

yes it is incorrect

https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/2021/drivers.html

[spice eagle]

i think sprint points are incorrectly added

resulting in the increase

[crimson granite]

possibly

[spice eagle]

so like it's wrong @prisma dome

[crimson granite]

okay yea it is sprint race

here instead of 3 the winner gets 8 points

so they implemented this years sprint race points system into last years standings

[spice eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/sueñitosgifs-traumatized-mr-incredible-los-increibles-meme-gif-24305569

[prisma dome]

apparently.. very strange

[short ether]

if a car is illegal, then it will be determined whether it can be deemed accidental (like merc rearwing drs) or on purpose. If its accidental then they will get disqualified from the session the car was illegal in (theres some leeway for crashes of course). If it is deemed on purpose the FIA can disqualify them from the constructors or fine them. The whole car will never be illegal because the FIA has access to p much every data surrounding the car, including design stuff like CADs and they do frequent checks (iirc after every session). Teams also usually ask if something new they came up with is legal. They can inquire with the FIA at any time, Merc did that for DAS for example. Usually if a team cheats its done in a way that they are in some kinda grey zone, so they get a slap on the wrist and nothing more. Or obviously, "cant" get caught at all.

[ember rune]

If it’s within the season, the FIA will request the team to change up / correct the irregularities (see RB in 2012 Monaco or RP in 2020) and charge a fine and/or points

If it’s after the season, idk the team might get DSQed but it depends on the FIA leader / Liberty (idk)

In 07, for eg, McLaren was DSQed from the WCC for getting classified info from Ferrari but Bernie (role similar to Liberty Media of that time) didn’t want to DSQ the drivers since the title fight was Close

[drowsy nacelle]

Now what if you also add the circuit and corner the overtake happened

You can also categorise the corner as a high medium low speed corner for example

Now you have the trend of a whole year

Now compare it to the next year

Anticipating the change in cars and see if you can build a correlation

You don't have huge banks of data, which makes this a bit tough

And you will have to run a separate percieved driver skill prog

That might also factor in, although you can do the whole package tbh

Just ignore mid year driver changes and similar stuff

[agile barn]

what does this winglet do

[deft burrow]

direct air

[calm burrow]

The new aston looks very similar to the redbull

[sly ore]

Aston martin has even copied RedBulls split fin design at the front of their underfloor veins

Seen in picture above

[fringe hull]

I really don't see any difference except the sidepod inlet

[merry delta]

no longer the Asston Martin

[calm urchin]

Do you think that Redbull gonna protest

???

[merry delta]

hmm, that's a good question

I personally don't think so as Aston Martin independently copied the design, so they had to do they own development to get the package to work with their car

however, Red Bull is known to protest things, so it's more than feasible

[calm urchin]

Yeah, this is also the reason why I am so curious.

[merry delta]

it does look like they took something which was known to be working very well and adapted it for their own car

so it remains to be seen whether the Aston Martin actually becomes a good car to drive because of it

[calm urchin]

That's a good argument

well, I am still angry because seb doesn't get it for the Spain GP

[merry delta]

the interesting thing is that teams protested the 2020 TRacing Point because of the brake ducts rather than the aerodynamics of the car itself

[calm urchin]

Wait, they have not protested because of the aerodynamics???

[merry delta]

"After the Styrian Grand Prix, Renault lodged a formal protest against the legality of the RP20, suggesting its brake ducts (a part teams must design themselves) may be too similar to the Mercedes W10's.[10] Brake ducts of the RP20 were impounded and stewards requested Mercedes provide brake ducts from the W10 for comparison."

[calm urchin]

Oh, I guess that I need to get informed better.

[merry delta]

so yeah, if Aston Martin independently (as in designed their own models, tested parts, manufactured parts) developed the new parts on that car, then the car will more than likely be out of any sort of allegations

but if they attained drawings/CAD models from Red Bull (somehow, I wouldn't have a clue how though, maybe Spygate 2.0?) then Aston Martin would be in some muddy water and legality would very much be in question

[calm urchin]

💀💀💀💀

I do not hope for this.

[merry delta]

same here

[calm urchin]

Hopefully, they have been designing everything on their own.

[merry delta]

more than likely, they have

[calm urchin]

yeah

[merry delta]

they independently developed the RP20 (besides the rear brake ducts) after all

[calm urchin]

Yeah

I think in this case, the only way to become competitive with a “shitty” design is to inspire yourself.

[merry delta]

essentially

[calm urchin]

Well, that automatically means that everyone could “inspire” themselves by looking at the rivalry

[merry delta]

I personally think they could've adapted things from the Alfa Romeo in order to be more similar to the prior design

since Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo have similar starting concepts

[calm urchin]

Yeah, I also think, they did a radical change to the car

[merry delta]

I honestly hope this radical shift in design philosophy works out for them

[calm urchin]

Same here

[merry delta]

but to consider it, Aston Martin is actually one of the most ideal teams to do such

as Force India and Racing Point, they were very efficient on funds, so design changes and adaptations were feasible

[calm urchin]

Exactly

[merry delta]

but if they get it wrong, then it'll end up like the 2021 Aston Martin

[calm urchin]

.

[fierce oxide]

Guys is Red Bull bringing any updates to the car in Spain?

[west pasture]

Just weight reduction, sources are saying 7kgs.

[fierce oxide]

K thanks

Damn 7kg is a lot

[merry delta]

I've heard that it's largely weight reduction, but there may also be some aero changes

though that does remain to be seen

[fair heath]

Any alfa upgrades for spain?

[merry delta]

we don't know the full extent, but there definitely is a package coming in Barcelona

[deft burrow]

What we know so far is a new front wing and floor.

[fair heath]

O

[fair heath]

alfa have brought 8 upgrades to spain

3rd most

mclaren bought 10

aston 8

merc 4

alpine 4

ferrari 3

williams 3

RB 2

alpha tauri 1

haas 0

according to motorsport.com*

[heady pulsar]

I just got a tought

If yuki and ocon come 1-2

Will ocon be higher on the podium than yuki

Yuki 1st ocon 2

[merry delta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g-B4Lwz88c

[languid fractal]

What's up with Ferrari's tyre deg. In the beginning they were good on tires

[short ether]

maybe its the track 🤷‍♂️

[languid fractal]

It has happened 2 races straight

[cinder nova]

Hello, I have a question. Since this season all teams have to inform FIA about new upgrades they will bring for the grand prix. And list of these upgrades for each team should be available somewhere, but I cant find it. Does somebody know where to find it ?

[short ether]

https://twitter.com/albertfabrega/status/1527585668561608704?s=21&t=WKoybg_6fpStWkXLeYUhBg

Albert Fabrega (@AlbertFabrega)

Las novedades de cada equipo para Barcelona.

Every team Barcelona's upgrades.
#F1

Likes

759

Retweets

122

Twitter · May 20, 2022, 9:42 AM

[cinder nova]

Thank you so much

[fair heath]

alfas new floor

and front wing

its huge

[zinc bison]

mechanically, why do V6 engines sound so much worse than V8's, despite making similar revs?

[edgy anchor]

These V6's would, if Naturally Aspirated with the single exhaust exit sound almost like baby V12's, as those exhaust pulses would work 6:1, however even so, straight 3's which have the same noise can sound way better simply because they run more revs

For example I don't believe I would complain as much anyway if these V6's were able to get to 13.5-14.2, let alone actualoly hitting the 15 mark they're hard capped by but never reach due to fuel flow

[zinc bison]

I recall hearing part of the reason was the MGU-H?

[edgy anchor]

So because that is sucking in the thermal efficiency

Part of the reprocussion which gets rid of resonances that would make it sound better, it muffles or just dampens the noise

[zinc bison]

Makes sense

Cheers mate

[edgy anchor]

Recently IndyCar tested their new 2.4L V6 at the Indy road course, which is only 200cc more than before, however it sounded a fair bit deeper or more complex

[zinc bison]

Do you think if the current power units were V8's with the hybrid systems, they would sound similarly poor?

[edgy anchor]

But I would posit that if the cars could run N/A or with a very basic/low boost turbo with the single exhaust, they could sound along the lines of the 911 GT3/RSR at 12, or almost like the T.50

Depends, because the MGU-K doesn't change noise other than adding it's own whinyness similar to the gearbox

At the same revs well... We have an example

https://youtu.be/lWHJ1VT9DU0

not quite as good as their 2000 peak

[zinc bison]

yeah that doesn't sound too bad

[edgy anchor]

Every cylinder you go up in a row or bank, your harmonic split goes up by 3/4 semi-tones

So for example, a basic Flat-Plane V8 like that has a 2 Octave split between I guess it's two defining notes

A V6 has less, a V10 has 2 octaves and if I remember correctly 3 semi tones, and a V12 is 2+7

So I think the V6 is like 1 octave and 10 semi tones? idk whatever half the V12 would be

Of course when you join the zhaust the reonances of each side produce the one you would have

[short ether]

can someone explain porpoising

[edgy anchor]

When you increase your speed, your downforce increases, which further increases your speed potential
Your downforce pullls down the car, and the suspension compresses
The floor gets too low, the air gets throttled underneath and stalls, and so the car loses downforce and comes back upward, and the airflow re-engages
Compound this with suspension that has mechanical heaves which I'd assume are more susceptible to resonance
And also you have alot more flexible bodywork in F1 which can also resonate, you've got yourself an issue

[short ether]

this isnt related to porposing anymore but i thought downforce would decrease speed potential due to drag?

also sorry that i cant spell keyboards got me tripping up

[edgy anchor]

While yes, underbody downforce is much more efficient than overbody, and also if you have more downforce to get a high speed on corner exit, then you might be able to get a higher top speed or average speed than if you had a drag rocket

[short ether]

ah so it allows the car to basically maintain its energy bettery?

better

ffs

[edgy anchor]

YEah, downforce and cornering speed is all about preserving momentum

[short ether]

oh yeah momentum was the word i meant

but yeah

thanks bro

[short ether]

why dont teams just have the floor curve upwards so it wont stall under it? or does that cause other problems?

[edgy anchor]

... That's the profile of a venturi tunnel anyway

[short ether]

sorry bro haha i am quite new and i am trying to learn alot about the cars

[edgy anchor]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQ9-9RlWUAYLMNA.jpg:large

But you want some point to be the lowest point as right above the choke point is the peak downforce

[short ether]

isnt this something to do with ground force or whatever its called or is that something completely else

like ground effects

idk what its called

@edgy anchor btw not f1 but is there any difference to 2 stroke and 4 stroke ik one has 2 strokes and one has 4 but they look literally the same on an animation or is that just it

[edgy anchor]

A two stroke only does 1 revolution, so 1 up stroke, one downstroke, to intake, compress, ignite and exhaust

A 4 stroke takes 2 revolutions to do that same amount]

[short ether]

so then do two strokes perform better? or does it depend on the rpm?

[edgy anchor]

2 strokes tend to be more powerful but like...

For example a 500cc V4 two stroke will make the same power as a 1,000cc V4 four stroke, just about

But use just as much fuel

[short ether]

wtf lmao

sometimes engine smake 0 sense

or is it with how it has to be injected

idk anything about fuel ima be fr

[edgy anchor]

Because it takes half the time to cycle the engine

It has double the amount of power strokes

Which means double the amount of fuel intake... However for an engine half the size? They even out

Theoretically anyway

[short ether]

wouldnt it need more then? higher intake/injection or something like that?

[edgy anchor]

Wdym?

[short ether]

if it cycles faster it would need more fuel delivered to it to maintain right

[edgy anchor]

Yes

The two stroke uses more fuel

[short ether]

so how come the 4 stroke needs a higher amount to go the same?

[sudden scroll]

a higher amount of what?

[edgy anchor]

Right

[short ether]

fuel

well bigger tank

whatever

i just dont understand

[edgy anchor]

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/--_oCRZXaogA/V8aO13zIHhI/AAAAAAAAB7g/PE4C-EoN1v42UhYHGBxxtbtiK7QatZUiQCLcB/s1600/two%2Bstorke%2Bvs%2Bfour%2Bstroke.jpg

[short ether]

yeah but i dont get this wouldnt the two stroke need 1000cc to keep up with the cycles

[edgy anchor]

No, the two stroke is smaller and can rev even easier than the four stroke

[short ether]

oh alr so it has nothing to do with its cycle but its just smaller so it takes less from it?

[edgy anchor]

Wdym by cycle?

I know I said it first

[short ether]

by that i mean its full well cycle so say in a stroke the whole process of it once

ik im a bit dumb rn when it comes to cars i need time to learn bro trust

[edgy anchor]

Two strokes take half the time to do their full cycle

You're not dumb

You're learning and I'm confusing terms

[short ether]

yeah thats what i mean so then how would the 4 stroke need a bigger tank if the two stroke completes it earlier wouldnt it need more fuel as it does the full cycle faster or is it smaller so it balances out?

[edgy anchor]

Yes

The 4 stroke wouldn't need a bigger tank

[short ether]

i thought cc means the size of the tank

[edgy anchor]

No, cc is the volume of the engine's cylinders

[short ether]

oh shit that makes way more sense now

lmao

[edgy anchor]

Yea

[short ether]

thanks so much for talking to me btw rn all i talk to is wikipedia

[edgy anchor]

The fuel useage... At least on paper would be about the same if a two stroke was half the size

And they were like identical other than that

[short ether]

so the only difference between 2 stroke and 4 stroke is its cycle length and its size

good to know

do cars use this because i only hear about it in motorcycles or so

[edgy anchor]

Well the size isn't an inherent difference

They just tend to make them smaller because it's more convenient

[short ether]

yeah but as a power comparison they are generally smaller right

[edgy anchor]

Yea

[short ether]

man how do you learn all this

[edgy anchor]

1. College

2. I like enyins

Well British College so... High school

[short ether]

haha im british too

[edgy anchor]

Things that're highly technical I like anyway so I guess I got ore-disposed

[short ether]

im in year 9 rn and i want to do motorsport enginering in the future

i overall wanna do f1 car design

[edgy anchor]

Should've known

Ayo same... I'm a bit older tho oof

[short ether]

yeah lol

but im trying to learn as much as i can rn

i might make my own go kart chassis but if i do make one i want to make it perfect so itll probably take ages to do

[edgy anchor]

Bruh that'd be sick

[short ether]

i kinda got a chassis designed but i got no clue if it would actually work

[edgy anchor]

I need to apply for mclaren work experience again

[short ether]

oh shit bro u just gave me a great work experience idea for like next year or whatever lmao

[paper wing]

Congrats @short ether, you're now on lap 20

[short ether]

sadly i live in the north tho

nothing interesting goes on around here

[short ether]

the main idea was to make it smooth by creating sort of a suspension by the shape and the idea was to make a space frame on a flat area so basically triangles supported by the general frame in the front and rear which would also be support by just a square frame sort of picking up the main shock then delivering it into the rear and front into those frames leaving the centre untouched basically

but like i said idk if it works in practice

@edgy anchor what do u think taking in consideration my idea? the wheels would go in the slots and this isnt like very scaled but yeah

[edgy anchor]

I have to say I'm not into karts so I wouldn't know much

But in the cnetre there's not alot of strengthening going on

[short ether]

yeah that is the point that all the shock would balance out in front and rear and if it goes the other way that is strengthened too

so it would be still smooth and maybe save some weight than making it all strong

but idk

[edgy anchor]

Well torsionally that's... A bit iffy I'd say

[short ether]

i think what i will do is get it 3d printed in small so like idk a 15cm version or something and test how it holds up then change however i need to

[edgy anchor]

I see

Bruh

You have acces to a printer?

[short ether]

its broken and small but u can also order online

[edgy anchor]

Ah

[opaque mulch]

Why do they get the cars into the pitbox after qualy stints? Why not letting it out on the pit lane?

[edgy anchor]

Heat

[median folio]

If the DRS doesn't open on straights, you can race anyways or you have to DNF?

[short ether]

if it doesnt open its no issue, if its loose u have to pit because then u loose a ton of downforce

or if its stuck open

but u wont be DSQ unless u use it to set a time in Q, during the race its just a part failure

[tiny ermine]

what exactly does drs do?

[short ether]

its a flap on the rear wing that opens up to create less drag and downforce for top speed

DRS zones are usually on the straights

[grave fiber]

they're always on the straights

[short ether]

yep my b

[deft burrow]

more like you're required to pit

because if it gets stuck open, you are now a danger on track.

[nocturne dock]

black and orange flag

[astral rock]

How did red bull rear wings stop working exactly during the last seconds?

[plush panther]

This guy?

[feral vessel]

Yes, and the boards on track have the flag with the name of the driver in question accompanied with it.

[soft junco]

it enables wind to cut through so that the cars can reach a higher speed in a slane

my wording is prolly not right but it is used to gain speed in the straight

[opaque mulch]

Do teams need to pay for fuel and tyres??

[short ether]

No

[opaque mulch]

Ok

[short ether]

Thats all managed by fia

Just to overcome cheating

[opaque mulch]

Sir, do you read the future??

[short ether]

what happens if a driver skips a gear accidentally? does the car shit itself or can the engine take it?

[median folio]

[opaque mulch]

It depends on the revs of the engine at the moment, surely, the engine will take in most cases it because they are really powerful, however that could damage the engine badly

[zinc bison]

are last years halo wings banned this year?

[deft burrow]

No.

It's just that most of the teams do not use them

AlphaTauri has the,

them*

[short ether]

Well technically, they can't skip gears because the gearbox is sequential

[vestal blaze]

DRS opening comparison down the Barcelona main straight

[short ether]

i know but like it was a general question

[sudden scroll]

if you skip a gear you can overrev the engine and blow a valve, it happened quite frequently in the 70s and 80s

[blazing breach]

Red bull wing should be closed

[short ether]

Ah ok sry

[plush panther]

All very different, wow

[short ether]

why doesnt redbull add like an insert which goes into the side pod which creates vortices, if the drs is fucked they can atleast help it by closing that

unless its some regs shit

[jagged horizon]

Yep very illegal. Can't have active aero other than drs. Also why would vortices inside the sidepod do anything other than limit flow to the radiators

[merry delta]

williams moment

[radiant elm]

Apartnly 2026 rules will have active aero🤞

[bronze ocean]

just an illustration of how these cars are absolutely not the same

[radiant elm]

Interesting aero wise aswell

[plush panther]

You could also do this, which shows all the similarities

Obviously they took inspiration because of the pace of the redbull, but it’s definitely not a carbon copy.

[mint nacelle]

Its the exact same thing

But different

[plush panther]

Exactly

[short ether]

f1 fans when they find out physics apply to every car the same

[granite tundra]

not really possible with a semi sequential box

[civic fern]

yeah in F1? it's a paddle shift so its not really possible to get from 5th to 7th without going through 6th

Leclerc has double tapped the upshift from 6th to 8th once, didn't kill the gearbox or anything

just accelerated a little slower, as expected for skipping a gear lol

[edgy anchor]

If it does accidently do so it probably would jump to a neutral between gears and then either seize or just kinda nuke that fork

Lyn St. James used a sprung loaded sequential in her Lola in 1995 for the Indy 500, which is not the same now because it's far more mechanical, and putting preload on the lever before shifting meant it dropped into a neutral and just kinda had a box of neutrals as the barrel just decided to misalign

[viscid shoal]

Over one year into this server, and the amount of tech-related knowledge of some people in here still amazes me

thank you for sharing what you know and even explaining certain words so that non-native speakers can understand it

[worldly ferry]

what are control electronics and what do they do?

[gleaming cape]

I mean tbh

They had fia investigators checking

[deft burrow]

Purely just a wild coincidence.

[gleaming cape]

I think someone can fact check this but they are responsible for communicating with the sensors and stuff. They would also be responsible for driver mfd.

[deft burrow]

It’s a bit implied in the name

control electronics

[worldly ferry]

ahh yes so its the cnetral nervous sytem somewhat

[gleaming cape]

Yea

[floral bramble]

Is it possible for a team to have 2 different car designs running at the same race? I've read that sainz is used to understeery cars, unlike the f1-75 which is a more oversteery type of car
Can Ferrari create 2 different car concepts, a more understeery type of chassis for a driver while the other driver has another type of chassis?

[astral rock]

Are repairing costs after a collision also accounted for in cost caps

[astral rock]

Yes

Cars have same pu and aerodynamic bod but customisable driver settings

Like steering resistance for example

Or the seats height

There's more to it ig

[candid solar]

Can someone explain why was the w11 so fast

Or send a video explaining it

Nvm

[keen pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-gif-23140940

[merry delta]

very powerful engine that allowed for the downforce to be cranked without losing top speed

plus, the low rake concept let Merc have quite low drag overall

[deft burrow]

kinda hard to explain the why without getting into the engineering part, and that is something no one active in this discord knows

[merry delta]

that is fair

[graceful sun]

Merc were just the superior team

Pretty sure if the rules didn’t change they would have had a car in 2021 that was able to fight for the championship without any changes

Even banning the party mode at the request of rb who didn’t have it didn’t change a thing

[edgy anchor]

Wdym without getting into the engineering part?

[sudden scroll]

you sure?

[edgy anchor]

We've got some comprehensive aero bois here

[civic fern]

I mean, it depends on how deep you’re going

If you’re asking how it works, that can be googled. If you’re asking how whoever made it work came up with the idea for it, then its a different and likely irrelevant (in the sense that its a long detour that doesnt really add much) story for answering why the end result is so fast

[merry delta]

ah yes, the typical armchair f1 aerodynamics engineer (like myself!)

[edgy anchor]

That's the one

but like seriously tho

[civic fern]

If we werent armchairs we’d be working at a factory in England or on the way to Monaco rn lol

[sudden scroll]

you think aerodynamicists only work in f1 teams? 😄

ever heard of planes

[civic fern]

Yes but in the context of the W11

Planes arent particularly relevant

You dont get underbody ground effect or deal with vortices anywhere near the level on a race car

Nor do you have to consider sidepod cooling

[civic fern]

But back to the W11, 2020 was basically the peak of an era of relatively stable regulations from 2017, and Mercedes essentially evolved their car for 4 years

So the end result is what you’d expect out of an era’s dominant constructor in the final year of those regulations, at least before targeted nerfs

Like Red Bull RB9, Ferrari F2004, Williams FW19, McLaren MP4/4

Theres nothing particularly specific about any of those cars that made them super fast like the double diffuser on the Brawn, they were just end-of-era halo cars

[short ether]

das

[edgy anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/planevortex-planebermuda-vortex-gif-14410857

.... My guy

That's just kinda wrong

[sudden scroll]

that's a cool gif

[edgy anchor]

Okay you don't get the same ground effect as the high pressure side is toward the ground as opposed to Low pressure

[civic fern]

Yeah but you dont need to create them to specifically seal the floor

[edgy anchor]

... Elaborate

[civic fern]

The vortex you’re seeing there, is a simple consequence of wing design

You cannot tell me its the same as what F1 does with even just the floor.

[edgy anchor]

Oh right, yes, however those vortices going down is good for lift

I thought you were saying cars don't need vortices to seal the floor

[civic fern]

For example, you don’t get stuff like Mercedes doing wavy floor edges the past two years on an airplane, you just don’t

For the past 30 years, all advancements there have just been in raked wingtips, winglets, and most recently scimitar winglets

[edgy anchor]

Like I get your reason for your point but I guess I still disagree

[civic fern]

Other than using wings (for very different purposes), how is the 787 useful for explaining why the W11 is so fast?

[edgy anchor]

The 787 isn't the only plane out there

Nor do I see that response of bringing up the relevance of planes to be a good response to where they work... Aerodynamic principles work the same way no matter the direction of the body if the flow is the same

[upper ivy]

fluid-flows and vortices visualised always are cool as fuck

I had a lab class today where we looked at Karman vortices in a water tunnel

[edgy anchor]

https://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/vortices1.jpg

We have to nyoom

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6EhRHS3O8aUAOpXy/giphy.gif

OH I KNOW THOSE ONES

[upper ivy]

link doesn't work?

[edgy anchor]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/71/Heard_Island_Karman_vortex_street.jpg

Embed fail.mp4

[upper ivy]

lmao that exact picture was used in the instructions as an example

well, ours didn't look exactly that spectacular, especially in the pictures I tried to take

[edgy anchor]

Isn't that part of the coanda effect as well but symmetrical?

Nevermind that's cavitation

[upper ivy]

yeah coanda is about the flow not separating isn't it

whereas the vortex street is the flow (and the vortices) separating periodically

[edgy anchor]

Coanda does happen on stall, but floats above it

[short ether]

hm

[short ether]

it was a change to the floor

which meant that low rake was horrendous

or not horrendous

but it wasnt the wave

aswell as the ban of DAS

it hit merc hard

they had a essentially worse w11

[edgy anchor]

But he's talking about the W11

[sudden scroll]

W11 is the 2020 car?

[civic fern]

Aerodynamic principles being applied in completely different ways for a rather opposite purpose. Thats why I didnt find the guy bringing up planes to be particularly relevant, especially in the context of answering why the W11 is so fast

[short ether]

meant w10

sorry

w12

[short ether]

yh

so the reg change fucked it

[edgy anchor]

... That's his point

[short ether]

oh yh

thats what i was reinforcing

mb

[edgy anchor]

Oh, sorry

[civic fern]

come to think of it, there actually isn't a good comparison of W11 and W12LH at all

the rocket engine went in for Brazil, and was used for that, Saudi, and Abu Dhabi (Qatar used the Turkey engine)

the W11 never went to Brazil or Saudi, and Abu Dhabi's layout changed between the years

[graceful sun]

I mean that’s literally what f1 have planned for the 2026 regs

Also there practice limits as to how light the cars can be

All the safety stuff plus heavy pu and large size means the cars have to be heavier

[astral rock]

Nah he said that about road cars not f1 cars

Read his interview

Clickbait be wilding

[short ether]

Anyone willing to explain importance of gravel traps. Why some tracks have it while other don't?

[candid solar]

Iirc its mostly in fast corners, to slow down the drivers

But in the the French gp its rough asphalt

Blue slows you down a little

And red slows you more

[short ether]

But most drivers when crash in it and stop, then they have to retire whereas in case of asphalt they can continue

Should asphalt be everywhere then?

[candid solar]

Yea, but you can still recover from gravel with skill

[sudden scroll]

there's often the cases of tracks where MotoGP also runs on. gravel isn't good when you fall out of your bike and slide, while asphalt is the best apparentlky

[candid solar]

I think its because of costs

[sudden scroll]

asphalt shouldn't be everywhere because drivers abuse of the possibility to get away from the track

[short ether]

Might be technology as well, old track have more gravel I guess

[short ether]

Makes sense

[plush panther]

gravel is very dangerous because a body moving at 100+mph hitting gravel... doesn't end well. In full pads, asphalt is basically just an ice skating rink with friction, very rarely will you get tossed up on asphalt

most Moto deaths or major injuries are either collisions or gravels

[sudden scroll]

didn't know it caused deaths tho

now, there's also sand that's a possibility, i have no clue how good or bad it is for moto

some tracks had sand traps in the 90s

it was perfect for cars

[plush panther]

look at marquez's crash in 2020 where he goes into gravel, barcelona

if it was asphalt, he likely would have slid or maybe tumbled once depending on orientation

[short ether]

I don't think so it's gonna be possible for an f1 car to come out of sand under any circumstances

[sudden scroll]

yes that's the idea

[deft burrow]

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/05/26/green-notebook-from-la-dynamite/ notebook time!!

[deft burrow]

🇧🇪 F1s contract with Spa is not likely to be renewed due to the lack of support from the Walloon provincial government.

• Their maximum capacity of 75,000 also makes it impossible for them to produce the numbers that F1 want.
• The Commercial Director of Spa was in 🇪🇸 to discuss, but the word is that the promoter is not keen on another deal.
  🇫🇷 F1s contract with Paul Ricard is also likely to not be renewed due to them struggling to meet the financial demands from F1 (entry fee).
  🇿🇦 South African Grand Prix is unlikely in 2023 due to the political instability in the country and the constant bickering from the African National Congress party.

Williams will not kick Nicholas Latifi out for Nyck de Vries before the end of the year.

• There is no guarantee de Vries would sign for Williams for 2023 either, as de Vries is no longer a youngster willing to grab an F1 chance at any opportunity, but rather a 27 year old that wants to make decent money from his career and can live without F1.
  Domenicali met with the team bosses in Barcelona and once again explained that he would like to regionalise the calendar for cost saving and overall efficiency.
• There are also problems over the next could of years with Ramadan, so 🇦🇺 might be the first Grand Prix for a year or two to ensure that Bahrain and Saudi Arabia do not upset the locals.
• There is a desire to have a Grand Prix in 🇰🇷, also no interest in getting 🇲🇾 or 🇻🇳 back on the calendar.

More changes are expected at the FIA this week, as an affect of the new leadership cleaning up the messes and structures left bu the ancient regime.

• A new "Chief of Staff" will be appointed in Shaila-Ann Rao, who currently works for as their Special Advisor.

• She was previously with the FIA as a Legal Director in 2016, but then left to join Mercedes and is now going back to the FIA.

-Slendis (yes I am stealing your summary.)

[young heart]

ok

[viscid shoal]

well most of the decisions/plans/rumors regarding the future calendar suck imo

but well thats how this sport works

[civic fern]

Punishing going off the track is the global purpose

Gravel specifically is some 90s era nostalgia

I think they were phased out for asphalt because it was safer

But naturally drivers would take liberties with track limits

[edgy anchor]

The way they grooved the gravel in the 90's would sometimes just make cars skate on it and ramp

[blazing saffron]

no more Belgian or the French GP? ffs why

[sudden scroll]

oil country and shady dictatorships offer more ig

[blazing saffron]

I hate it

[upper ivy]

I can live without the French GP but Spa would be sad to lose

[short ether]

how do ducktail spoilers work wouldnt they technically create lift

the compute is not computing

[edgy anchor]

But there's a low pressure zone behind the car

The ducktail just extends that influence

[short ether]

oh ok that makes sense

[edgy anchor]

I would assume anyway

[short ether]

what happens to the air does it just go to the backrooms or what

[edgy anchor]

🤨

[short ether]

well yeah but i mean it makes sense regardless

[edgy anchor]

I'd assume it's like cupping over the drag zone at the back so instead of just pulling it back, it pills down too

[short ether]

maybe the edge spins it or smth

but it makes sense eitherway

BRM H16

This engine is just

v12? i dont know my engines well

or v16 i guess

8 carburetors on each side or whatever they are

H16 engine

wtf

thats so cursed

Yeah

do they work atleast tho

Yeah

They used it in f1 in the 60’s I believe

Or maybe before idk

[plush panther]

idk where to post this, but man F1 cars have gotten huge

[short ether]

it seems like a solid design ngl air flow would be easy

[short ether]

yeah man the old ones were literally go karts with a big engine

[plush panther]

I know its for safety and what not, but man, no wonder GP’s feel boring

Qualifying is fun and the actual race at long open tracks is fun, but these cars are just too big for these tracks

[short ether]

Pretty sure it’s for safety and to give it more downforce

[plush panther]

And I’m not saying we need to get rid of the tracks

[short ether]

as far as i know downforce hasnt much to do with length

[plush panther]

I’m glad the 26 regs are aiming at reducing the cars size

[short ether]

its all about the vortexciescs and angles and shit

[short ether]

why do they make it so far ahead is it like mini eras or smth

F1 cars with a v-twin engine

🥵🥵🥵🥵🥵

opel 4 cylinder 🙀

[edgy anchor]

1967 BRM H16

Also they have to make it very far ahead so they know who to nosh off when a constructor has a problem coz they believe they can't win

[short ether]

https://tenor.com/view/cheeseburger-aerodynamics-gif-18099723

@edgy anchor ik this is a bit silly but how is it producing lift and downforce at the same time

[granite tundra]

lift and downforce are the same thing

[edgy anchor]

I'd say that's making more df

Coz the bottom bun is trailing upwatd

And the wake is slightly less stalled at the back

[short ether]

yeah agreed because it has an angle u see

[short ether]

yeah ik that

[edgy anchor]

AEROBUNGER

[short ether]

yeah but it makes vortexes doesnt that play a part in it

or nah

[edgy anchor]

Well that's what I meant

[short ether]

yeah

[edgy anchor]

The vortices are made coz of stalling/turbulent flow

[short ether]

aerodynamic cat

[edgy anchor]

... Try to keep it somewhat more sensible

[short ether]

me starting at the neighbourhood cat ( its gonna make a perfect spoiler for my mustang )

[edgy anchor]

https://preview.redd.it/2z72f4flf8u01.jpg?auto=webp&s=4f1a4b2ee05b34e0d9c0b398d6b5958215c729f4

Like this

[short ether]

ik this is basic but the way to avoid this is vortexes right it pulls the air down

[sudden scroll]

The H16 was used between 1966 and 1968

[edgy anchor]

That's some prime stall right there

[short ether]

ik but u fix it with vortexes right

[plush panther]

I think someone discovered that a lobster is more aerodynamically efficient than a jeep wrangler in that program

[edgy anchor]

Yup

[civic fern]

what do you mean fix?

[short ether]

bruh

do you not see whats wrong with it

?

[sudden scroll]

the stall is a problem that needs fixing, basically?

i can see where it happens, but having no big aero knowledge, i've no clue why it's a problem

[short ether]

basically the problem is it doesnt do what it does when its stalling, in this case its on the up side so it wants to create lift, but because the angle is too high the air doesnt naturally suck itself to it anymore due to low pressure, but using vortexes it should sort of spin the air down down and keep it down

so if it stalls it wont produce any lift pretty much because the air wont stick due to the angle of it

that should be right

[sudden scroll]

ok 😄

[short ether]

you see how the air is basically falling off the wing in this picture

[sudden scroll]

oh yeah i can see

[edgy anchor]

But the Vortices are the result of stalling

Also I'm pretty sure that's an image to specifically shoe stalling characteristics from using too high of an attack amgle to show the Coanda effect flow on top of the stalled flow

https://www.formula1-dictionary.net/Images/coanda_angle_o_attack.gif

Like myar

[short ether]

nice image mate

[edgy anchor]

You fix that with more wing elements

[short ether]

was the sd version locked behind a paywall

[edgy anchor]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-BYtQ9t_llCM/UsGRzOeAi_I/AAAAAAAABqQ/yaxrkBTRVIs/s1600/Stall.jpg

There we go

Sugma bro

[short ether]

isnt that just turbulent flow

as you can see its clearly pulled more

[edgy anchor]

Yeah but I don't see your poijt

[short ether]

because i asked if the problem with the stall is because it doesnt have enough vortexes and you said its caused by it but clearly the vortexes pull it more so i should be right and that is just turbulent flow

[edgy anchor]

But the vortex is caused by air which doesn't have anywhere to go but forward

So that makes a vacuum back there

Pulling more air towards it

[short ether]

that sort of makes sense but why doesnt it pull it down tho

[edgy anchor]

It does

You just said how it does

The vortex is flow air being pulled to fill the space because it's lower pressure

[short ether]

yeah but then why doesnt the rest of the flow get pulled

is it because its pushing it forward then?

[edgy anchor]

Because it'd have nowhere to go

[short ether]

bruh idk if i am not being clear
you can see clearly from the coanda effect a vortex pulls the air closer, so then why is the air going above the vortexes, is the vortex too big or what

[short ether]

@edgy anchor its kinda weird that to cause downforce the air needs to like go up and with lift it goes down is there some sort of explanation for that or is it just physics is physics

[edgy anchor]

What?

Can one of thge proper aerodynamicists please help

That example of the Coannda effect there is just to show it attaching to a surface, that'd pull the surface upward

[short ether]

like this i just a general question how does it work that in a plane it pushes the plane up even tho the air goes down and opposite in a car wing

is there some legit explanation or is it just how it works

[edgy anchor]

Yea

If I push against you, and you're stronger than me, I'm just gonna push myself backwards

An object pushes against flow, and directs it one way, itself is gonna push the opposite way

[short ether]

oh alr so its not some fancy engineered shit it just is what it is

[sudden scroll]

the laws of physics?

[civic fern]

hes...playing a weird game of chicken or egg

what he originally presented was an airfoil that is at an angle of attack beyond the stall angle

so it stalls, and the air over the suction side is turbulent, as you can see in the pic

in it's turbulence, vortices are also present

the part where he's gone full chicken and egg is that he thinks the vortices somehow "fix" the flow (back into laminar? re-attaching to surface?) by....dragging it back down onto the wing

[edgy anchor]

Your guess is as good as mine

But I meant someone explain what I mean

[civic fern]

i was confused what he meant by fixing

cuz as its shown theres nothing wrong lol

stalled airfoils are supposed to look like that

[edgy anchor]

I think he means that stalling is wrong

[civic fern]

what were you trying to explain lol

[edgy anchor]

Just the principles of Aero and I guess the Coanda effect to this d0000d with the proper terms because I'm working off of inference and I'm more of an engine guy

[civic fern]

yeah hes....acting as if vorticies are a feature rather than an effect

that's why hes confused why they're not "working"

[edgy anchor]

If you did wanna help them not exist tho you gotta have that entry flap and more elements to get that Coanda REALLY goin

[civic fern]

the vortices to not exist?

[short ether]

listen bro i am constantly trying to learn

sorry if i make any mistakes

[civic fern]

that's where you've been going across the gravel lmao

[short ether]

i understand its an effect but ive only understood it so far as something that happens due to generators being used @civic fern hence my confusion. but i get it more now that its turbulent flow and low pressure and etc

[edgy anchor]

Vortex Generators are basically using said vortexes in a way to help the rest of the flow

[short ether]

i know but i though thats all how they worked

which i understand now its not

[edgy anchor]

Oooooh

[tired nebula]

F1 pancreas

[short ether]

🤔🤔

[sudden scroll]

do you have a question to ask?

[short ether]

How easy would for a team to implement this designs to their cars (as ferrari photo is also out), or would it not work due to different aero philosophies

[calm burrow]

are those two metal blocks made of titanium

[short ether]

Most probably

[calm burrow]

the floor seems to complex and i think it would only work on car who chose high rake concept

[merry delta]

well, images of the floor have released before now, and only Aston Martin copied the floor design from what we can see

[opaque mulch]

What’s that second thinner pipe coming into the big exhaust pipe??

[short ether]

can someone pls send me the link to the live🐝🐝

can’t find it💪💪

[opaque mulch]

We can’t

[fallen tulip]

wastegate exhaust

I think previously they were separate to the main exhaust but this year they were mandated to join into it

[opaque mulch]

Ok thanks

[echo solstice]

What is happening with the drs, it isn’t enabled, right? Why is it not, and when will it be?

[silent heron]

It was enabled after this question, probably wasn’t earlier because of “safety”.

[round bloom]

DRS isn't enabled when the track is wet, even if there is a dry line, the full track has to be dry for drivers being able to use DRS out of the racing line without any risk of crashing because of the high downforce and acceleration on wet track

[short ether]

i got a question
so i was at a race today and the cars wing just fucking blew off in the straight for no reason and was literally on a direct path to me i pissed myself so hard

why did that happen

there was no contact or anything

[edgy anchor]

A rear wing failure?

[short ether]

ill show u the livestream

i was legit pissing ymself so badly

this part completely fucked itself out onto the straight

oh nvm he hit barriers

💀

i didnt see it irl

i just saw it compleely go to the backrooms

but bro he was literally like 3m away from me

scariest moment eve

[upper ivy]

what series was that?

Also sometimes parts do just fail randomly without an apparent cause

[short ether]

gb3

its like a british f3

[short ether]

i rewatched ithe hit barriers but irl it jut looked like it blew off because it was too far to see it

[radiant elm]

How different would f1 cars be if had no planks

[radiant elm]

The plank generates Venturi tunnels so without the plank how much extra downforce would we gain or lose

[prisma dome]

are you referring to the vertical strakes?

because they do not create the venturi effect

the shape of the floor created the venturi effect

the vertical strakes try to keep the air following the path

because the low pressure fast moving air wants to spill over the sides to a higher pressure

[radiant elm]

Ye sorry wrong phraseing

[prisma dome]

this shape creates the venturi effect

[radiant elm]

Ok

It's a really interesting field

[prisma dome]

what you want to do is take the incoming air and accelerate it to lower its pressure

purple is main downforce area

green is the edge trying to prevent the low pressure air from spilling over the side

[radiant elm]

So doe that mean a bigger intake at the front smaller middle section that compressing the air and a large out take to maximize performance

Is that why they used the rubber skirts on the old lotuses

[prisma dome]

this is what the air wants to do

[prisma dome]

yes those side skirts are the best solution for trapping the low pressure air beneath the car

[prisma dome]

and yes this is the basic principle

[radiant elm]

Is there any way of doing that artificially like with the fan car design

[prisma dome]

its quite literally just this

except the tube is the bottom of the car

[prisma dome]

yes the fan car achieves the same result except the air is quite literally removed

[radiant elm]

Very interesting so if you close the gap of more the air whil have too speed up to get through

[radiant elm]

Ye, as far as I know there still are loopholes to get a fan like that in your car not as big but still loopholes

[prisma dome]

yes, but if you reduce the "gap" too much you lose all downforce and you will have a big accident

[prisma dome]

there arent any loopholes to do it right now. thats why nobody is doing it

[radiant elm]

Ye isn't called the air stalling and that is why there's proposing

[prisma dome]

im not sure stalling is the correct word

stalling refers to the AOA of a wing/surface being so high that the airflow delaminates (aka stalls)

[radiant elm]

Ye

[prisma dome]

this is not what happens when you basically bottom out the car

and no airflow is possible

this is also why cars will have small skid plates underneath the car which will prevent the car from bottoming out

[radiant elm]

So the car compresses to the ground and it bottom outs

[prisma dome]

so a complete lack of downforce can be avoided

[radiant elm]

Why don't road cars use aero like this though

[sudden scroll]

to achieve what?

[radiant elm]

I mean like Ferrari

[radiant elm]

Better fuel economy

If it is better shape won't I cut through the air better so less drag

[sudden scroll]

there’s safety concerns to take into account

[radiant elm]

I may be wrong though

[radiant elm]

True

But even just make the shape more like airfoil

Like a bus it's literally just a rectangular prism

[radiant elm]

Have active aero

So it will be nice at high speed and low speed

[sudden scroll]

production costs

[radiant elm]

True

[sudden scroll]

people who really care about fuel economy likely don’t have the means to buy fancy aero bits

[radiant elm]

But even for super cars don't effectively use it

[prisma dome]

because owners can change the ride height of a car which will impact the performance

it can be really dangerous

[radiant elm]

It isn't the companys fault if the end user changes it and gets hurt though

[prisma dome]

what do you think will happen when a hotboy slams his ferrari which uses ground effect and then he bottoms out while showing off to his friends at 200kph+

a very dead dumbass

nobody wants that kind of reputation

and there are cars that use it

[prisma dome]

no, but ppl dont understand that and its reputation. if 10 guys kill themselves in a short period of time there is no way you will ever sell those cars

[radiant elm]

Make it clear you can not modify the car

[prisma dome]

that never works

[radiant elm]

I understand where you are coming from though

[prisma dome]

we thought nobody would ever modify a ferrari

[radiant elm]

Yea

[prisma dome]

yet here we are

testarossa cringe supreme

[radiant elm]

I mean if I bought a fiat 500 though put a v12 in it and it spins ou and I die it isnt fiats fault

[prisma dome]

no, but just lowering the car isnt the same as putting in a different engine

[short ether]

this baby better

they are lowkey kinda small irl

[prisma dome]

testarossa is a GT

F40 is meant to go fast af boye

[short ether]

@prisma dome btw what is this car

[prisma dome]

thats a mosler

[short ether]

do they be rare

cuz it won a race

[prisma dome]

look it up I think only a handful were ever made

[short ether]

35

💀

how do mfs be consciously bringing that to races

feast ur eyes upon the british gb3 / formula 3 car engine

[prisma dome]

they were made to go racing

it wasnt meant as a street car

you buy it. enter a race series. drive it to pieces.

[short ether]

thats incredible

it was gapping ferraris in the race

i got soo many pics from yesterday

[prisma dome]

where were you at?

[short ether]

donnington park

i was fucking around in the paddock

engineers didnt care

[prisma dome]

theyre usually pretty chill if you dont get in their way

[short ether]

yeah

[prisma dome]

donington* btw

[short ether]

it is like watch dont touch and feel free to ask as long as we arent clearly working

[short ether]

pretty much same thing

[prisma dome]

http://www.speedhunters.com/2022/05/the-bmws-of-bimmerfest-europe-2022/

speedhunters covered this event I went to

I couldnt bring my camera and only had my phone with me 😭

[short ether]

bmw

[short ether]

also thats sick

i had a few races it was like gb4/formula 4 3 hour gt classic car race then gb3/formula 3

[prisma dome]

S54 with carbon intake

so good

[short ether]

also they cover the fucking gb3/4 seats in tape

😭

i would not feel safe driving that

[prisma dome]

wdym?

[short ether]

hold on

💀

it is just covered in tape

[prisma dome]

doesnt seem like a problem to me

worry about the belts

[edgy anchor]

https://mobile.twitter.com/f1motospogp/status/1531221213389160448?t=8F7s0GOVrJ6PQIw5il1-Kg&s=19

Jin(F1モタスポGPcom) (@f1motospogp)

RedBull RB18 Sidepod & Louver
Outlet air flow

#TechF1

▶ Play video

Twitter · May 30, 2022, 10:29 AM

[edgy anchor]

Scrapes and sparks would be brown trouser moments

[short ether]

What is the smoke machine engineers use sometimes when driver is in the cockpit?

[viscid shoal]

the smoke is carbon dioxide that just turned into gas, liquid carbon dioxide is used for cooling in F1 cars as it is very, very cold

[fallen tulip]

solid carbon dioxide (dry ice), it just directly sublimates into a gas after so no liquid to have to clean up but still good cooling

[short ether]

Could someone who knows what this is plz label this pic?
Thanks

[edgy anchor]

That right there's a bellhousing and what yer lookin' at is rear SUSpension

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/content/dam/brandhub/mercedes-amg-f1/news/2019/06/the-suspension-of-a-formula-one-car/3_4252.jpg

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/content/dam/brandhub/mercedes-amg-f1/news/2019/06/the-suspension-of-a-formula-one-car/2_4252.jpg

And on the right of the housing I think you have s dry sump gearbox pump

[short ether]

Dry ice, cools the engine

[civic copper]

Basically a fancy leaf blower with a box full of dry ice

#engineering

[lunar karma]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/red-bull-open-to-evolving-rb18-f1-car-characteristics-in-title-fight/10314785/

[short ether]

Got a question about diffusers. No diffuser at all, is basically the same, as diffuser with 90 degree angle? I'm trying to understand how diffuser work, and apparently most of explanations are contradictory with each other

[civic fern]

Hmmm?

A diffuser is basically that portion

Thats about as simple an explanation as it gets

It trades fluid velocity for pressure

[edgy anchor]

A 90° Diffuser would be like a wing with a Gurney flap, it'd have a little effect but not a huge amount, unless it was really tall and top flow wasn't there at all

[floral hemlock]

It’s the same picture

[short ether]

Could you just circle in the pic where the gearbox is?

[edgy anchor]

It isn't visible

[short ether]

Ah

So suspension lays over the gearbox? I thought it was behind

[edgy anchor]

The rear suspension assembly is now in the Bellhousing

[short ether]

So the in-house suspension for the rear of the car comes pretty far inwards

Damn

[edgy anchor]

It used to lay on top like so

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4zs3yTjcrcY/U5XQse0c8jI/AAAAAAAAACk/fIZZ7NIFAp4/s1600/Renault+rear+suspension.jpg

[short ether]

When did they change it

[edgy anchor]

Idk, Pullrod suspension rear ends becoming commonplace with longer cars

[short ether]

I remember Scarbs mentioning a regulation change this year with the gearbox or smth

It’s positioning

[edgy anchor]

I dunno about that

[nocturne dock]

"mm"

[true pendant]

why does the HAAS car split in half wehn crashing?

[merry delta]

the new 2022 cars were designed to split apart so that the engine breaks away from the car

[true pendant]

oh so all cars split like that

[merry delta]

that's the goal, yes

[true pendant]

the point being?

[narrow sundial]

Is everyone here engineers or smth

Cuz i dont even understand shi-

[severe knoll]

safety reasons, i guess
also in the event of a crash, if the engine goes on fire while the car is split in half, it wouldn't cause the whole car to go on fire

but that's just a theory of mine

[true pendant]

ohh the romain grojean crash

they dont want arepeat of that

so when the engine detaches the driver is away from th fire

[somber cypress]

+1

[edgy anchor]

They're all meant to. To just be pedantic, cars were meant to split apart before 2022, however they lowered the required energy to do so, because in the Romain crash, those bolts didn't break and so tore the back off of the tub, and exposed/pierced the fuel tank

[tribal nacelle]

But i. The mock crash i dont think the Engine split right?

It was a very small section of the back of the car

[edgy anchor]

What?

[rich gust]

Why do F1 cars of the 70s look so outdated today
yet Fighter jets from the same era still look modern

For instance here's a Ferrari 312B from 1970

and here's an F14 from 1970

[merry delta]

makes sense, thanks for the further clarification!

[wispy wren]

the biggest reasons is that the military has/had a WAY bigger budget and they didn't have to follow any regulations on how to make a jet

[merry delta]

^

and that airplanes had been around 70 years by that point while wings had been on F1 cars for only 4 years for the car you showed as an example

[nocturne dock]

absorbing energy

[civic fern]

With just mechanical grip, yes

The back end will want to slide out

Well, assuming we are talking edge of grip here

Design a car?

How deep are you going?

Its not cringe at all, but it really depends on how much you want to design

Even something like this is not a one person job

Yes

Thats my school’s car actually

I mean, you’re still essentially building a new car from the ground up

Even if all the parts used to be part of 1 Beetle

Emphasis on a lot of time

The car i posted took an entire school year

And parts were outsourced as well

Well, by outsourced i mean we just ordered them from sponsors, parts that are legal to be done so, because we dont have the capacity to make it ourselves)

(Before anyone who does FSAE here pulls a Christian Horner and files a complaint lul)

But yeah, ground up car is no joke

Also it takes like 50k+

$$$

I mean, for you that number will depend on where you get your parts

But its not gonna be cheap

[upper ivy]

I think most teams do that?

Outsource manufacturing I mean

[civic fern]

Probably

But I havent gone and seen any other teams’ shops

[upper ivy]

When I was in FS one of the partnerships with a company basically was that we could use one of their huge CNC mills (5 axis) for a few days.

My team's shop was super small, with only a conventional mill and lathe (literally from soviet times)

The university didnt even give us any actual support

[stark adder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8A6Hf9sFxE&ab_channel=yelistener

love me some yelistener

[civic fern]

depends on quality lol

i guess

i looked it up

a new one would be 40k

which seems about right for a car with every part thats fresh tbh

but i guess on a budget 5k will do

just don't cheap out on safety lol

[civic fern]

I mean, if you want to make your own modifications beyond what comes with the kit then you’ll need to understand how everything you do affects the rest of the car

[dire moth]

1: holy fuck I thought it was younger!
2: makes sense. Military does not follow regulations or budget caps when making planes or tanks

[civic fern]

I mean, the Abrams is from the same era

[ripe narwhal]

I thought the new cars are smaller than the cars from last year. But they are pretty heavy. If they could make the cars smaller, will it solve the problem at Monaco?

[merry delta]

smaller? Yes, but significantly smaller? No

smaller, lighter, less draggy cars are the plans for the for 2026 regs as it stands right now

whether it solves Monaco remains to be seen

[edgy anchor]

Smaller in length only, if at all

[nocturne dock]

monaco will only be solved if f1 goes back to 2000s size cars

which will never happen because safety

[fringe hull]

of course can happen

It's not like new material can't be developed

[merry delta]

yes, but with the reduction in development costs expected and the increase of standardized parts, it's much less realistic

[edgy anchor]

New material, plus a weight increase plus x and y which manages to give it more momentum

[lost ice]

If the FIA finds a way to cut of 60cm in the length then it would be the same length as a formula e car, and the racing with those cars at monaco is pretty good.

[dark bear]

Yeah I think so too. But Monaco is reclaiming a lot of land. By 2025 the Portier Cove will most likely be done and maybe they will be able to expand the circuit?

Although I have no idea how everything will look like at the end of the project. I am not sure that this is even a possibility, but it would be pretty cool

[median folio]

Has any F1 or former F1 driver died on track, but not by colission, debris or anything like that? Example, Denny Hulme

[severe knoll]

niki lauda died after a period of ill health, one cause of that period was that he was having kidney problems

he almost died in that firey crash on the nurburgring but otherwise whatever i said

[median folio]

Every single new WDC ever since Hakkinen has won the Monaco GP at some point in their carreer, could Leclerc break that streak?

[upper ivy]

He still has a long career hopefully so I don't see why he wouldnt win Monaco at some point

[median folio]

I hope so, but I fear a Dale Earnhardt Daytona bad luck

[dark bear]

Monaco might not be an F1 track in the future...

[median folio]

It's like removing Indy 500, it's ridiculous to even consider having a conversation of removing it

[deft burrow]

and while you can argue "oh but it doesn't have good racing" of course it doesn't, but its still the most prestigious and unique event to F1. and unlike indycar or endurance series, F1 isn't all about racing. I think it still has a place on this calendar that it deserves

[rotund kelp]

Oi the racing this year was fire

[upper ivy]

I also think it's perfectly fine to have a race like this where qualifying matters a lot more.

There are so many tracks with different characteristics; we don't need to only have tracks where overtaking is super easy

[dark bear]

I agree, I think it's a completely different race compared to the rest and it's pretty interesting to have in the calendar. However, that changes nothing. We can debate it and say what we think but it's up to F1 to reach an agreement with them or not

[ember jungle]

Monaco is being a bit cocky rn, but I think that if F1 tells them that they have to do as they're told they will oblige. I don't think it will be like the boycotts of Spa or the Nürburgring in the 60s.