f1-technical

[short ether]

Yeah, what’s a breather? @deft burrow

[deft burrow]

a valve system that allows air into the tank to replace used fuel

Renault mentioned they were running a full tank, so the fuel escaped through the breather, ignited, and showed you what happened in the photo

the likely cause of the failure with the fuel breather is that they just didn't calibrate it properly

[short ether]

Thanks

[short ether]

Why would you want air in the tank?

[deft burrow]

because fuel tanks need ventilation

otherwise it can cause a vacuum

[short ether]

air is also a good cushion for impacts !

[onyx nova]

guys, since mclaren clearly had a good week due to their car working well with the Australian track, what cars/teams do we think will do well at imola?

[short ether]

Thanks

[short ether]

Ferrari

[short ether]

Australia could be an anomaly due to its new abrasive surface, but McLaren seem to understand their car better. Imola surface is more well known and not that hard on tyres so probs Alpine will be up there. Fuck knows

[onyx nova]

haha thanks for your response, yes i assumed ferrari and was speaking of more the mid field. 😄

[short ether]

If I were to predict who stand out in the midfield I’d say Alpine McLaren Alfa Romeo

All are so close

[onyx nova]

haas had a great start i wasnt sure if their troubles this weekend were track related

[deft burrow]

is most likely track related.

[onyx nova]

so Mclaren and Haas are opposites in a way

[primal acorn]

average ferrari hater

[onyx nova]

ye i mean sum1 who loves ferrari wouldt bring it up. but u cant blame people for going on about flexi wings haha last year we watched that go back and forth so maybe just take it and move on lad.

[karmic nest]

lol

nah I dont want Ferrari to make it like 2019

they have a good car

so if they are fined then that might obstruct the team's surpemacy in the sport

[fair pilot]

How does DRS work

and why do we need it

How did DRS failing cause Ericsson to have such a big crash in Monza 2018

[short ether]

Didn’t shut under breaking hence lack of rear stability. Causes spin when the car is under load from 200mph and turning into a heavy braking zone. This is accentuated by Monzas already low downforce levels

[fair pilot]

Did the front wing also come into play since most of the force is now towards the front

[short ether]

Front wing doesn’t affect rear grip. Ericsson hit the brakes and was about to turn into the corner. The balance does shift to the front of the car meaning the rear is now more loose. Flap open meant crash

Guys, how does the technical relationship with Ferrari and Haas/AR work? Of course they supply engines and gearbox but what about suspension, gearbox casing and fuel systems?

Also, how is the Ferrari technical dynamic different to Racing Point 2020 where they got a fine?

[fair pilot]

Thanks.

[hasty lagoon]

Lmao

[hasty lagoon]

To over take the car -_-

[hasty lagoon]

Driver didn’t control well

[short ether]

Which car weighs the heaviest?

What’s the minimum weight limit

[deft burrow]

Drag Reduction System (DRS) What happens is there is an actuator on the rear wing, and when the drivers press a button on their steering wheel, it will open the top flap of the rear wing. As in the name, it's job is to reduce drag.

The reason why we "need" it for racing, is because of how difficult it was to follow another car

there are designated DRS zones on each track, every single track on the calendar needs at least one. Since the cars were having difficult following through the corners, the FIA came up with the solution of the top flap of the rear wing opening, to promote better racing and more overtakes

[deft burrow]

If I recall, the minimum is 798kg

and the heaviest car is probably the Aston Martin

[deft burrow]

Suspension, gearbox casings, and fuel systems can be bought from their engine supplier (or built inhouse in the team). Basically anything that is an "LTC" "TRC" part, or better known as non-listed parts, can be bought and sold to different teams within the sport. Listed parts however, must be made by each individual team, and then there's the SCC parts, or standardized components every team must use.

As for your second question, I assume you're talking about the alleged Ferrari cheating situation.
Racing Point used a listed part when they copied the Mercedes (It was not listed when the car was built and developed). However, since the part was listed for the 2020 season, and they had used it, teams complained and the FIA gave them a deduction of Constructor's points because of it.

The Ferrari situation is a bit more complicated. There was a report that came from Redbull about Ferrari's engine, the FIA launched an investigation. During this investigation, right around COTA or so, we saw a massive reduction in engine power from Ferrari, and then soon after a TD was launched and the regulations around fuel sensors were changed.
We do not know what happened between Ferrari and the FIA in that investigation, whether or not they had a deal, etc.
What we do know is that neither Redbull, nor the FIA could prove that Ferrari was operating outside of the regulations in regards to their engine, and as far as we know, that is why the FIA did not give them any "set punishment".

[upper ivy]

Just a minor correction: "LTC" are "Listed team components" which are the parts that no other teams may use. Transferable components are defined as "TRC"

[deft burrow]

Oh right, my bad

[tepid sky]

that is very much looking like it

Camber of the track, could be damage to the control rods, in fact it could be a number of things, all we know right now is that the Aston Martin is an absolute mess of a car.

[nocturne dock]

flap opens and reduces drag

and we need it because overtaking is still bad

[edgy anchor]

I'd disagree

[outer torrent]

Or just make a simpler front wing

And put like something around the wheels

Like a strap around all 4 tires

To lessen the tyre wake

[dense shadow]

tbh I wouldn't mind seeing less overtaking in general because DRS if phased out, DRS overtaking is extremely boring

[dense shadow]

cough cough

[civic fern]

well if DRS overtaking is boring and less overtaking in general is also boring (yes, it is), whats the difference?

[dense shadow]

racecraft

[civic fern]

for what tho

you can't racecraft your way out of dirty air

with a same pace car

unless the other guy is shit

[dense shadow]

not really

or you can just overtake normally around corners

DRS overtaking is nothing more than a box moving on screen for me, nothing exciting about it

[civic fern]

its better than a parade

[dense shadow]

these newer cars are great on open tracks

just the fact 2/3 races have been street races so far

[civic fern]

i think DRS made the racing better in Bahrain

Verstappen had his work cut out for him just keeping up with Leclerc

without DRS Leclerc would've just driven away

[dense shadow]

that's assuming there's a decent pace deficit

idk, maybe there could be some tracks where there is DRS, and some where there isn't

maybe even different DRS ranges for different tracks but that might overcolmplicate things

[outer torrent]

Drs can be scrapped

Just make the front wing simpler

[outer torrent]

But they don’t wanna do that

[civic fern]

they've tried

what you're looking at this year is the result

[vestal depot]

And it is not the worst thing, it should be updated at some point to have that new challenge for engineers but must still be in a way that limits dirty air and doesn't make it 100% spec

[civic fern]

i think minimizing wake turbulence has already been achieved for the most part

but at the end of the day a car going through the air itself is going to punch a hole in the airflow

no matter what you did to it

[outer torrent]

No they havent

Lol

[civic fern]

explain

lol

[outer torrent]

It could be reduced

[vestal depot]

It'll never be zero though

[civic fern]

if you mean go back to the 80/90s of front wings literally being a flat rectangular box placed at an angle, sure

[outer torrent]

They coulda tried this

Yes

[civic fern]

that car is probably slower than F2.

[outer torrent]

Who cares

The racing will he much better

[civic fern]

then go watch F2 lol

[outer torrent]

Will be better

[vestal depot]

And its also this, engineers can't unlearn that the complex bodywork would make them go faster, dirty air be dammed

[civic fern]

F2 is the exact series you're looking for lol

[outer torrent]

Im not saying f1 sucks lol

They coulda tried it tho

But its what ever lol

[civic fern]

whats the point of F1 if the cars are going to be slower than F2?

[deft burrow]

They did try it, in the 80’s 😉

[outer torrent]

They can just make the tyres wider for more mechanical grip

[vestal depot]

Formula 1 is also about car design, you can't make the box to tight or it becomes a spec series, I think the compermise right now is alright

[outer torrent]

Did i say it was gonna be a spec series

No

[civic fern]

they're already pretty fat as is

[outer torrent]

Did you hear what i said

Lol

Im just saying i think it would help a little

Just saying

[civic fern]

and im telling you just how out of touch you are lol

[outer torrent]

How am i out of touch

Do you want good racing or not

[civic fern]

for one, you're suggesting going back to 80s level aerodynamics

[outer torrent]

Yes

[civic fern]

💀

ok whatever you say

lol

[outer torrent]

I mean the front wing can be 80’s esque

But the rest of the car doesn’t have to be

[vestal depot]

Problem is aero understanding has changed much the last 40 years so you'll never get an exact copy today

[outer torrent]

Fair

[outer torrent]

I dont want it to be 80’s esque tho

[civic fern]

i hope you're not assuming front wing and rest of car aero isn't aligned

[outer torrent]

The front wing can be simplified tho

For sure

Alot more then it currently is

[vestal depot]

I think F1 has a decent midground right now

[outer torrent]

Im not saying the racing is bad but i think it would help

[vestal depot]

It's very restricted compared to a few years ago but not too much to were they're all the same

[outer torrent]

Im not out of touch tho lol

Im being reasonable

[civic fern]

I’ll believe it when you stop presenting 80s era front wings and super fat tires as a solution to the aero issue

[outer torrent]

Well it would definitely help

I dont want super fat tyres

[civic fern]

But at what cost?

[vestal depot]

And not like the 80s front wings would be a lot better as it couldn't extend to cover part of the front tires which you want fatter

[civic fern]

You’ll need super fat tires to have the same level of speed as current F1 cars

[outer torrent]

I just want a front wing thats not overly complicated

[vestal depot]

To limit a lot of the dirty air with these cars they have that tall endplate and a mainplain covering the full width of the front

[civic fern]

You’ll end up with a slower car

[outer torrent]

But better racing

Lol

[civic fern]

That already exists in F2 tho

[outer torrent]

Fair

[outer torrent]

Did i ask for the rest of the car to be spec?

[civic fern]

Does it matter?

[outer torrent]

It any to be spec

[outer torrent]

Yes it does because that’s what your implying

[civic fern]

If you make the F1 car slower and less aero dependent, you end up with F2

So much for pinnacle of motorsport

Running 40 year old front wing designs

Lol

[outer torrent]

Ok you need to calm the fuck down

First of all

I was a giving a suggestion

[civic fern]

….you talking to me or yourself?

Lol

[outer torrent]

Who do you think?

[sudden scroll]

erm.

[outer torrent]

Its not a bad idea

[civic fern]

💀

[outer torrent]

I dont want

Exactly 40 year old front wings

[sudden scroll]

that's a very bad idea

[outer torrent]

I just want this current wing to be simplified a little more

But it wont happen

Obviously lol

[outer torrent]

Lol no it’s not

[sudden scroll]

we still want the fastest cars

[outer torrent]

Fair

Go ahead

[edgy anchor]

... They just went back to tunnels which haven't been used in F1 for 40 years

[outer torrent]

I mean

My idea isn’t terrible

But i can see yall want the fastest cars

And i do tkk

[edgy anchor]

The FIA doesn't...

[outer torrent]

Too

[outer torrent]

Lol

[edgy anchor]

Also I'm a big fan of the lesser spanned, inwash wings of pre-2009

[outer torrent]

Im just trying to understand

[sudden scroll]

these looked great

[outer torrent]

Is a simpler front wing really that bad of an idea?

Like then what we have currently

Like more simplified to what we got now

[edgy anchor]

No, however I will posit how the Front wings for 2022 did go through a massive simplification already

[outer torrent]

Yep

It definitely looks better

That’s for sure

[edgy anchor]

Bois gone ahead and took CART homework and tried to make it different

[outer torrent]

lmao

[short ether]

We got simpler front wings rn

[edgy anchor]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/700000/740000/740000/740400/740480/s8/f1-jerez-september-testing-2008-red-bull-racing-front-wing.jpg

More complex example

[short ether]

What year

[edgy anchor]

But I adore these bad bois where it's all mainplane

2008

Horni car hours

[short ether]

Didn’t realise the nose was so thicc

[edgy anchor]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/David_Coulthard_2008_Canadian_GP_003.jpg

I love me the thiccness

Though I'd scale this up to 2m wide and get the underbody goinf

But I understand my preference is more aesthetic than Aerodynamic, as I find it very unappealing when the front wings are wider than the sidepod/floor edge

[outer torrent]

No man i totally understand

[edgy anchor]

But I'd believe that would also insentive less outwashy wakes than has been accepted as the norm

[vestal depot]

I mean some of this philosophy did return this year as teams can now place the front wing at different heights

[edgy anchor]

Yes, so it's definitely just way better

But... We all have our own view of perfection I guess

[vestal depot]

@edgy anchor I mean the one thing I would change about the front of the 2022 cars is the nose cone. Some like the level position with the wing elements but I wish teams still has the option of lifting it a bit but in a way to prevent the 2014 ridiculousness

[edgy anchor]

Wdym?

[vestal depot]

For the first time in decades the nose cone is directly attached to the front wing elements instead of it being raised above it

[edgy anchor]

Oh you prefer it not?

[vestal depot]

I would still give teams the option of keeping a nose higher instead of mandating it to be directly attached

[edgy anchor]

Wdym?

Sorry I'm confused now

I think the idea was to eliminate the issue of complex front wing geometry in the centre, and just leave it open for the floor alone

[vestal depot]

Complexity is fine as long as it doesn't destory the racing, and I feel like it coulda been rewritten instead of just scrapping that area of design

[edgy anchor]

Also I quite like the aesthetic afyer all...

Well I think the idea was to keep that zone empty so the techniques to curve clean air around it wouldn't be expensive

[vestal depot]

Oh the 22 cars definitely look better than the 2012-2014 noses, but I have just seen cliparts of hypothetical F1 cars with that style of nose cone and looks really cool

[edgy anchor]

2022 cars with pre-2022 nose aeemblies?

[vestal depot]

Not exactly but somewhat like it, if you've seen the nose of the 2015 Ferrari that would be what I would aim at for the nose cones to look like

[edgy anchor]

...

I'm sorry chief I gotta hard disagree on that one

[vestal depot]

The 2014 nose was the one that looked like a vacuum cleaner, the 2015 one however looked kinda sexy with the roundedoff front and no middle piece that eventually went on their 2016-2021 cars

[edgy anchor]

But it's big

Actually I can't use that excuse as my favourite F1 car is the FW26

But it's like... At least with that aero package it looks not great

[vestal depot]

@edgy anchor C'mon, can't tell me this isn't the best looking nose of the 2014-2021 ruleset by far

[edgy anchor]

It is not the best looking nose

https://www.autocar.co.uk/sites/autocar.co.uk/files/styles/gallery_slide/public/images/car-reviews/first-drives/legacy/20170223_03-header-1700x850-1700x850_0.jpg?itok=xERMcDaN

This is

And even so... Man went low poly for the topside

[vestal depot]

Those weren't terrible either, and regs can be open enough where both those designs can be hypothetically put on

[civic fern]

Im not sure which one actually looks better

[vestal depot]

That one looks like a vacuum cleaner, however still one of the better nose designs of that year

[civic fern]

The SF15 seems like they took the F14T and stuck it through a crusher

And just flattened the nose

[fair pilot]

Sexy car

Too bad they didn't have me to drive it.

[plush panther]

What is your favorite piece of engineering on a car that isn’t obvious to plain sight?

[short ether]

Rear suspension or brakes

[odd canopy]

Any one know of any good sites to read about the technical things or know of any decent YouTube channels that goes into the technical side?

[short ether]

There's kyle engineers, former mercedes aero engineer:
https://www.youtube.com/c/KYLEDRIVES/videos

Then there's also F1 dictionary which has a ton of things:
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net

[odd canopy]

Thanks. I’ll check it out.

[deft burrow]

@odd canopy Chainbear is also a good channel, he takes the technical aspects and simplifies them into easy to understand videos.

One of the most highly regarded channels that has a focus on F1

[odd canopy]

Thanks. I’ll check that out also

[edgy anchor]

Good engine

[weary gulch]

How does Parc Ferme work in Imola?

[radiant sun]

Let’s get the sporting regs out

60. POST SPRINT AND POST RACE PARC FERMÉ
    60.1 Only those officials charged with supervision may enter the parc fermé. No intervention
    of any kind is allowed there unless authorised by such officials.
    60.2 When the parc fermé is in use, parc fermé regulations will apply in the area between the Line and the parc fermé entrance.
    60.3 The parc fermé shall be secured such that no unauthorised persons can gain access to it.
    60.4 Each Driver must remain fully attired until after they have been weighed (e.g.: Helmet, Gloves, etc.)
    60.5 Drivers must not interfere with parc fermé protocols in any way.

[weary gulch]

So Parc Ferme starts after sprint?

Not Quali?

[radiant sun]

I guess

[strong kite]

the steering wheel

[plush panther]

Where’d you go man!

I was scared we lost ya!

[vestal depot]

I'm just curious, you think F1 should switch to a HUD system for the 2026 cars instead of the conventional screens on the steering wheel. A lot of new luxury cars have that feature and perhaps Formula 1 should follow the high tech trend.

[graceful sun]

why

Literally extra weight for no additional functionality plus visibility would be harder for drivers

[edgy anchor]

They thought to do that in visor for 2001 and ralf schumacher tested it

[short ether]

There’s really no reason to do that, all the buttons are on the wheel and it just works better with the OSD

[short ether]

https://youtu.be/0Kr0bY0SeTU

Is the high pitch whine helical cut gearbox noise?

Why isn’t the whine heard in earlier f1 cars

[edgy anchor]

1. It's the gearbox whine plus the hybrid whine
2. Typically because the microphones weren't as good, and the engines were loud and big screamy anyway, however

https://youtu.be/eYifxN4cSCU

You can hear it on the braking

[zenith delta]

Will the tyres last longer if the drivers don't weave and fire up the tyres during the formation lap or is the difference negligible?

[opal ember]

yeah def mercedes had the best looking cars in the turbo hybrid era

[zenith pumice]

it’s always nice when a hot looking car is fast too

[short ether]

Difference is negligible

[short ether]

Why is the gearbox sound so much louder in GT3 cars?

https://youtu.be/DpSdlaQnYuY

[edgy anchor]

Well you have the gearbox right next to the driver in an insulated cockpit

[slender wagon]

I know of one video, or a few, but it is core race car engineering.

[primal patrol]

what does stall mean? (not in terms of aerofoils but the venturi tunnels)

[edgy anchor]

Stall is where the airflow begins to detach from the surfaces it's meant to flow along with

Therefore stopping the downforce generated as all the airflow is turbulent and not pulling the surfaces with it

[primal patrol]

does porpoising cause the airflow in the underfloor to become really turbulent?

[edgy anchor]

Yes, because your violently changing the direction the airflow is meant to expand from underneath

So it's limiting the amouth air flies of when the diffuser is yanking upwards

[edgy anchor]

It's even more difficult the longer the surface is, because surface friction will cause you a boundary layer to build where flow will start to be less... PReverbially glued

[velvet ledge]

New floor ?

[merry delta]

not quite, but I'm pretty sure it's been discussed by B sport on this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_vu4YUe890

[earnest yew]

thats the engineering high school project here in ireland

[dim bronze]

Would've loved that in high school Engo work

[tranquil tangle]

i go to ireland

[edgy anchor]

How in depth is the design?

Coz I'm tryna do that for fun

Oh wait it's a model?

[civic fern]

Thats my question lol

Cuz that sounds like FSAE

Well, until the 400 mm part

[civic fern]

Is that just design or do you have to build it?

[pulsar dome]

Can anyone explain me what is a sprint race please?
I'm new :)

[nocturne dock]

smol race

[rotund kelp]

Check out #formula-faq ☺️

[nocturne dock]

quali on friday

[pulsar dome]

Thanks! :)

[rain bronze]

where in ireland?

[rain bronze]

oh this is the metal work project

[short ether]

Is the high pressure pump open source or listed or trc.

Can someone send an FIA document listing all the standardised pards

[tall wyvern]

Appendix 5 of the technical regs

[upper ivy]

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2022_formula_1_technical_regulations_-_issue_10_-_2022-03-17.pdf#page=165&zoom=auto,-58,19

everything classified as "SSC" is a standard part

[spice eagle]

That was supposed to be their “minor” change

I think it was the one in Australia tho

[velvet ledge]

Yeah that was Australia

[edgy anchor]

https://twitter.com/scarbstech/status/1516438835730788354?s=21&t=Q4ke2WYpydIBEAISfclR6Q

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

#F1 piston and rod by @AlpineF1Team (Renault).
Fascinating generative shape to the rod and note the serrated joint on the big end.

Likes

693

Twitter · Apr 19, 2022, 3:29 PM

I believe this isn't a V6 piston but oh well

[sudden scroll]

what makes you think it isn't?

[edgy anchor]

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/a/img924/6717/bZPPDE.jpg

Because this is Ferraris

Bore shrunk from 95mm to 85mm for the new engines in 2014

[sudden scroll]

hmm yeah indeed the piston above is much wider

Rookie question probably, but do piston heads necessarily have to be round? the one of "Alpine" looks almost oval to me

[edgy anchor]

Wdym ?

Also the rules stipulate that they have to be circular, yes

[sudden scroll]

ok 🙂

[edgy anchor]

No Honda Oval piston for you

[sudden scroll]

outside of the rules, would having a non round piston head give any benefit to a normal reciprocating engine

[edgy anchor]

Doubt

Other than to get around some weird rules, hence the oval piston from before

[sudden scroll]

what was this Honda one for?

[edgy anchor]

https://riders.drivemag.com/wp-content/uploads/default/0001/27/Ovalpiston-medium.jpg

For the NR750 RC40 race bike

It was done to circumvent the 2-Strokes, by going to the maximum 4 cylinders, but keeping a 4-stroke they needed double the valves

And once you go above 5 per cylinder on a round piston, you lose surface area

[sudden scroll]

i've never understood why you would want 5 valves on a 4 stroke

[edgy anchor]

Because you get more surface area for valves?

[sudden scroll]

what does the additional valve do, which bit of the cycle is it in charge of

[edgy anchor]

Intake

[sudden scroll]

so if you go for this, you always have 2 valves for the intake?

[edgy anchor]

No?

You have 3 intake

2 exhaust

[sudden scroll]

oh right, my bad 😄

[edgy anchor]

Because the exhaust valves are smaller than the equal number intake valves

You have a touch more space to work with on the intake side

https://www.speednik.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2021/10/video-five-engines-with-five-or-more-valves-per-cylinder-2021-10-21_15-45-31_324628.jpg

So instead of 2 slightly larger, therefore heavier valves, you have 3 slightly smaller ones

[short ether]

What’s the advantage of running longer and shorter gear ratios

[upper ivy]

those serrated joints are really interesting, looks VERY precisely manufactured!

[edgy anchor]

Shorter gears gives you less variance in your torque output, as the revs between the previous and next gears are less drastic, which is good for acceleration

Longer gears allows you to use the full powerband more and achieve higher speeds

For road courses anyway

[edgy anchor]

https://youtu.be/Kjo8BEku080

Wastegate cracks

[pine forge]

is carbon fiber visible on the f1 car?

[cyan wadi]

it is the f1 car

[pine forge]

ik but how did they cover the texture

[worldly ferry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7707zEX9X4 best explanation of how a F1 car works on youtube

[onyx nova]

when do teams have to submit new parts for imola

is it today or tomorrow

or have they already done it

[upper ivy]

it's just painted over

some parts are left bare maybe but usually they really just paint over it in whatever colour(s) the teams use

[rich gust]

Which was the first F1 car to make use of sidepods instead of a front air intake

[sudden scroll]

lotus 72

[rich gust]

Looking at this, no?

[sudden scroll]

they’re just small

[rich gust]

Oh wow

[dire moth]

Also the first formula 1 car to use an air scoop on the top

Isn’t it?

[sudden scroll]

erm no i think it's on Tyrrell to introduce the airboxes

[short ether]

What are theee on the rear suspension called?

[worldly ferry]

what is the job of a rear diffuser

[nocturne dock]

make downforce

[civic fern]

Expanding the flow (velocity decreases with area) at the rear of the car, creating a low pressure zone and hence downforce

[edgy anchor]

Which ones?

[short ether]

The circular thing

Is the gold torsion bars?

[edgy anchor]

No, so the big cylinders will be the torsion bar housings even tho the bars themselves are tiny

The golds I assume are Individual corner dampers

As opposed to heave ones

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/content/dam/brandhub/mercedes-amg-f1/news/2019/06/the-suspension-of-a-formula-one-car/3_4252.jpg

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/content/dam/brandhub/mercedes-amg-f1/news/2019/06/the-suspension-of-a-formula-one-car/2_4252.jpg

Here we go

What is gold for that assembly I believe is blue here

[short ether]

Ah

[short ether]

Apparently the additional part in red on the suspension is helping manage the loads to reduce porpoising for RB. What to we think?

[edgy anchor]

That's the heave

[odd canopy]

I thought it gets wrapped or something??? I read somewhere awhile ago it gets wrapped and not paint as it can add weight or something. 👀🤨

[upper ivy]

Both add some weight, and I think the sponsor logos are just stickers, but overall painting is the easier solution for the base colours

https://onestopracing.com/are-f1-cars-painted-or-wrapped/#:~:text=F1 cars are painted.,'%20names%2C%20and%20racing%20numbers.

[odd canopy]

I see. I'll look in to it.

Haven’t thought about if their wrapped or painted.

[short ether]

Are there any plans to move to solid state batteries for the energy store system in F1 cars

[short ether]

Would you run higher or lower pressure in wet conditions

[edgy anchor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/891915216592437275/967118191081947236/IMG_8495.jpg

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/891915216592437275/967118190758998126/IMG_8494.jpg

Supreme floor

I'm glad the concept floor profile wasn't mandated

[short ether]

It’s so different to RB floor

[graceful sun]

Merc taking notes as we speak

[dense shadow]

woah that's a great shot

[dense shadow]

you have that pic?

[modest gust]

Hi, on the FP1 that f1 just got out on the 1.10 minute mark... the mclaren seemed strangely stable on the gravel is there anything to do with suspension?

[dense shadow]

was probably just going quick enough to skim across the top of the gravel rather than stick into it

also smooth gravel

not much trickery that could happen there

[modest gust]

ok thanks

[dim bronze]

Can anyone think of a benefit for Merc powered teams to be running on an older ECU iteration compared to HRCs, Ferraris, and Renaults ECUs?

[deft burrow]

Reliability is my guess.

[fringe hull]

You suggest that newer ECU is less reliable? Or you think that new Merc PU is not ready for new ECU yet?

[deft burrow]

I would go with the route of their PU not being very stable with the latest version yet, yes.

I can't think of many benefits to running an older version

[merry delta]

cost?

[spiral gyro]

it can be a possible reason

but i sorta doubt it

[merry delta]

with the cost cap in place, it might just be

[spice eagle]

Twitter be like: Hamilton’s team always gonna start copying Ferrari 💀

[fallow flame]

Was the only change to the sprint format that the top 8 get points?

[graceful sun]

Yeah

And fastest in quali gets the pole honour not whoever wins sprint

[fallow flame]

But I thought Max got pole for the main race?

[sudden scroll]

where did Max finish Q3 yesterday

[fallow flame]

P2

But on the broadcast today, they were saying he would start on pole on Sunday?

[sudden scroll]

who finished first then

[fallow flame]

In the sprint?

[sudden scroll]

no in quali

[fallow flame]

Charles

[graceful sun]

Tf what are you guys talking about

Max got pole in quali and won the sprint so will start on pole on Sunday

[sudden scroll]

Max finished 1st in Q3

[fallow flame]

Wait shit, no he didn't

[sudden scroll]

you probably forgot that bit 😄

[fallow flame]

Yeah nvm, for some reason I thought Leclerc had got pole lol

[dense shadow]

lmfao

literally anything merc does, even though they're not the top team anymore, everyone is down their throat

just give them time, everyone will hate ferrari if they become dominant over the next few years

[merry delta]

bread bull

[cursive wraith]

Thanks for the very technical question at exactly 12:00

[jolly patrol]

hello technical fans!
I'm here asking if you got good resources to learn about F1 technical stuff for beginners, like YouTube channels, information websites or other, so we can make a pinned post in this channel with all of them to help new F1 fans who are interested to learn the technical aspects of F1 :)

Most obvious one for beginners for me is ChainBear youtube, but if you have more we will make a list

[graceful sun]

Peter Windsor vids with Scarbs

F1 tv tech talk

Driver 61 imo isn’t really that good and his content mostly is very repetitive

kyle.engineering has some f1 content as well

Also merc f1 have some really good vids about how f1 components work

[merry delta]

b sport is similar to kyle.engineering, so that's another good channel

[dense shadow]

kyle.engineering is my favorite

merc f1 is also great, covers a very very wide range of topics

[dry garden]

This may get answered better here

Does anyone know why certain teams are allotted more curfew breaks than others

Why do RB and Williams get 6 and Mercedes get 8?

Are they like leftover from last year or something

[dense shadow]

maybe bc merc is a large part distributer?

don't really think it'd be down to finishing position/saved from last year

[dry garden]

I don’t see how being a large part distributor contributes to the teams count

Red bull supplies parts to teams too

[vital depot]

they have changed the terminology, pole is for the sprint, and for the race is just p1

[brave field]

Merc before the rw and the other 2 during the rw ig

During the rw you can do it 6 times and before 8

[dry garden]

Oh I see

[fair heath]

what were alfas upgrades for this week?

[jagged horizon]

Anyone know what came off latifis car? Looked like a retaining ring or circlip. Didn't seem to affect him which is weird as can't imagine something like that being non crucial

[cursive wraith]

Downgrade of pitstop times was Alfa's upgrade

[jagged horizon]

Legit, could have had 4th if it was smoother

[cursive wraith]

Heck he could've challenged freaking Norris

Man took a freaking 12s gap out of Russell

Also think #f1｜abu-dhabi-gp is the chat for this my bad

[short ether]

Diffusor

[oak zephyr]

Bit of a weird question but how are the new front wings changed during mid race?

[nocturne dock]

same way as last year and the other years where front wing changes were a thing

[noble laurel]

How does the new 2022 car affect the Monaco GP?

[merry delta]

well, heavier cars with less downforce are bound to do worse in a circuit like Monaco

the 2022 cars are showing to do much worse than the 2021 cars in slower corners, and doing about the same if not better in faster corners

[civic fern]

well, if it means more equal mechanical-based grip and a tighter pack

its really the limo sized cars thats the thing

[noble laurel]

oh boy, here we go another boring Monaco GP

[short ether]

How is the w13 draggy when it has no sidepods

Yo so.. where do I go to learn about how the f1 cars work n shit

I wanna know everything about f1…

But I don’t know where to read

[deft burrow]

The slimmed down sidepod design doesn't allow the tyre wake to be controlled efficiently, you add that on top of fully exposed rear tyres and you get more drag

the benefit is the amount of downforce it can produce

[short ether]

What I thought

[deft burrow]

and I would assume Mercedes did not think they were gonna take as much a hit on their PU as they though

[short ether]

Do you think they will lift the freeze to allow Merc to catch up on the PU side, the gap is so big

[deft burrow]

Mercedes could do some threats like Renault did in the early part of the turbo hybrid era, and say they're gonna leave because of how uncompetitive they are

but

I don't think their PU is that far behind

and if it is, they can get their battery updated and that can compensate

[uneven nest]

Can somebody help me with how to use this?https://medium.com/towards-formula-1-analysis/how-to-analyze-formula-1-data-with-python-a-beginners-tutorial-23087c4eef1d
(I am absolute beginner to python, never opened python.) (Linux user)

[modest gust]

Hi..... Can someone explain how the floor of the car makes it porpos? Is there too much downforce or is it something else.... If possible a CFD visu can be good for me thx

[civic fern]

thats my guess

they're probably using their 2019 battery or something

its gotten no updates last year, even as the engine was cranked to 12 i.e. Brazil

Lewis never took a full grid penalty start from last for a PU replacement, it was -10 at Turkey for new ICE and -5 for Brazil

[civic fern]

long story short, ground effect sucks car into the ground, lowering the ride height

eventually the air flow detaches (look up stall) from the surface (of the floor) and the downforce is lost, making the car rise again

now just imagine that happening over and over and over again really quickly, and thats how you get bouncy car on the straights

[modest gust]

Ya thanks but like ik that but like how does the structure of the car change its areo... Like to be sukced down to the track

[civic fern]

@edgy anchor

[modest gust]

XD ok

[edgy anchor]

Wdym by structure of the car?

[short ether]

I think he’s referring to underbody damage but I can’t be sure

[edgy anchor]

If you mean like the chassis of the car, like the gearbox and engine placement, it changes the gradient or slope of the diffuser, which Mercedes have found has made theirs quite sharp at the rear, making the downforce increase strongly at the rear

[short ether]

When will mercedes bring upgrades? Will they get any wins this year?

[fringe hull]

Barcelona

[dense shadow]

every race they're trying new parts

[spice eagle]

Miami perhaps. They can’t afford to keep stuff in line for longer

[full drift]

where on the f1 cars are the track rods?, you can easily see them on the older cars like the 2012 ferrari but i cant find them on the newer cars, can anyone point it out for me i am confused

[amber kraken]

With TC you just basically just stomp on the accelerator mid corner https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kcD-MRDP4

[fringe hull]

Everyone is saying Barcelona so I believe it's Barcelona

And Miami is completely new track so imo Barcelona is much more reasonable choice

[full drift]

where on the f1 cars are the track rods?, you can easily see them on the older cars like the 2012 ferrari but i cant find them on the newer cars, can anyone point it out for me i am confused

[upper ivy]

do you mean the pull rods?

[fallen tulip]

I think the track rods are inline with the lower front wishbone arm on the RB

[grim notch]

Sorry if this is the wrong channel (let me know which channel is best for stat posts), there doesn't seem to be a stats channel

Thread with Some charts and cool statistics after the ImolaGP https://twitter.com/motorace_addict/status/1518587011636072448

motor_racing_addict (@motorace_addict)

2022 Formula 1 Viz
👉🏼 https://t.co/vi1sbTyuwo

Max's #ImolaGP
⏱ Pole Position ✅
🏆 Sprint Win ✅
🏆 Win ✅
⏱ Fastest Lap point ✅
🏁 All GP laps led ✅

🏆 #MV33's 2nd Grand Slam

𝟭st time in #F1 history there's been 2 back to back Grand Slam's by 2 diff. drivers/teams

Twitter · Apr 25, 2022, 1:45 PM

Worth checking out the interactive charts online, to get more information and toggle various settings. 👉🏼 https://is.gd/hKA2ph

Happy to answer any questions ( pls @ me)

[frozen slate]

Anyone reckon that the merc has the worst porposing because their floor is getting significantly more downforce on the topside of the floor?

In terms too much for the floor to handle

Causing stalling?

As there is hardly any sidepod the airflow is directed straight down the side of the car compared wrapped around so from an aerodynamic point of view the top of the floor has significant downforce

[edgy anchor]

So? Why would that contribute more to an underbody issue?

[frozen slate]

Well perhaps the underbody isnt at the correct height or it is fighting the generated downforce from th efloor that may be superior to the underbody?

[edgy anchor]

What do you mean?

[frozen slate]

I'm just guessing that the top of the floor is possibly generating more downforce than the underfloor? its hard to explain what mean

I mean

The porposing may be caused by the floor edges having so much airflow compared to ferrari for example as there isnt enough surface area for the air to provide lift to the sidepods

As ferrari have "Bath tubs" the surface area is large

And merc have pratically no sidepods eg

[edgy anchor]

The reason why I ask is because the stalling that kicks off the porpoising is caused by the underneath, I'd presume that the floor having more downforce on top, meaning more overall, means it would porpoise less, no?

[frozen slate]

Yeah more downforce on top but the bottom is also fighting it/counteracting it

Causing even worse porposing

You kinda get what i mean

[edgy anchor]

sorry if I appear condescending I just love convos like this and finding the why's

[graceful sun]

Toto said that they know how and why it happens but there’s no easy solution which means that it’s something fundamental with their concept

[edgy anchor]

Not really... Downforce is Downforce

[frozen slate]

Same man, All good 🙂

Its cool to talk about potential issues

[frozen slate]

Thats what i agree with, the sidepods are clearing ALOT more airflow towards the floor potentially causing ALOT more downforce but also causing the worst porposing

[edgy anchor]

I just don't see why the two surfaces would fight eachother when making an aerofoil means making use of both surface sides

[frozen slate]

My theory has some evidence based on the Merc which is the only team with no sidepods vs the ferrari which has the biggest side pods

[edgy anchor]

Your theory is based on the idea that Mercedes has the most raw downforce, and I think you'd be mostly right

[frozen slate]

well not no sidepods but Significant reduced surface area compared to the ferrari

[graceful sun]

Not really when you consider that Ferrari also has the issue

[frozen slate]

Precisely my point

[edgy anchor]

But I don't get why having more downforce topside would increase porpoising rather than decrease it

[graceful sun]

But rb don’t when their sidepod is smaller

[frozen slate]

hm

[edgy anchor]

Red Bull has Adrian Newey

[frozen slate]

Well that is the problem, identifiyng the issue xd

[graceful sun]

Same with McLaren who have medium pods

[frozen slate]

I really do think merc produces the most downforce

As it has extreme porposing

but its unstable af

[deft burrow]

Ferrari's porpoising was just as bad no?

[graceful sun]

I think it’s something fundamental with the floor rather than the side pods

Aston have the largest pods but say they do still suffer from it which is causing them a lot of performance

[edgy anchor]

The current going theory is that because Ferrari's bellhousing is quite long, and so's the gearbox, that the floor has a much smoother, more linear curve

So their downforce is more central, and doesn't come on as exponentially

[frozen slate]

Could be suspenion anything but I have a gut feeling having that significantly less surface area for the floor (No sidepods to wrap air around to the floor) that the merc is unstalbe af

Hm

we'll see at barcelona but only they know atm

[graceful sun]

Yr only using merc as the point of reference without looking at all teams

[frozen slate]

Yeah

^

true

[edgy anchor]

Mercedes, trying to shrink their wheelbase on the other hand, have a much stubber package underside, so the floor has a steeper curve making bias more to the rear which'd choke the floor out harder

[graceful sun]

Does anyone have pictures of the rb floor edge?

[edgy anchor]

And explains why they keep tryna trim the rear wing

[edgy anchor]

Suspension is the reason for porpoising fundamentally

[graceful sun]

Would like to see if them and McLaren have anything in similar to use air to seal the floor edge

[frozen slate]

But then again merc has no side pods pratically and every team has some.. dam this is hard to adere to hm

[edgy anchor]

My personalbelief is that the porpoising would be way less if they still were allowed a Hydraulic heave damper

[graceful sun]

I think Alfa are the other team that doesn’t have issues as well

[paper wing]

Congrats @graceful sun, you're now on lap 20

[frozen slate]

The haas looks very stable

[frozen slate]

True

[edgy anchor]

Because mechanical dampers, essentially two way springs.. Have resonance

Which'd exemplify an oscillating issue if in tune with said spring

A torsion bar does not have a resonance like that

A hydraulic damper would not either

[frozen slate]

Hmm

Maybe for the 2023 regs they will be sligtly more lenient on suspensions as porposing could be deemed harmful/dangerous

[graceful sun]

I don’t think so especially with the budget caps

[frozen slate]

hm

[edgy anchor]

I think it might be a reason they're ballooning the tyre profiles for 2023 tyre tests

[frozen slate]

Porposing can in theory cause a crash similar to having your drs stuck open under braking

[graceful sun]

Can’t tell the teams that suspension rules are this and change it after 1 year cus some are having issues not all

[frozen slate]

loss of downforce as the car stalls

[edgy anchor]

Porpoising was incredibly dangerous in the 80's

[frozen slate]

Exactly

Surely they see that

[edgy anchor]

But we're not using mechanical skirts

[graceful sun]

I think it will just be an issue that all teams figure out by the end of the year

[edgy anchor]

Screw it

Realise colin chapman's dream in 82

Active suspension for tunnel stability

[frozen slate]

facts

regulate it to each team so its fair

[edgy anchor]

Just make it a standardised com- well

More a standardosed design, with availability to support all suppliers

[frozen slate]

yeah

[primal patrol]

anyone care to explain this

[frozen slate]

Didn't know this existed 😮

[full drift]

they could add springs that get exponentially stiffer the further they are compressed along with half active suspension

[jagged horizon]

Is that even possible with torsion bars? Progressive rate springs are possible with coil springs I know, but idk about torsion bars

[full drift]

fuck it, use leafsprings

[unique burrow]

Fuck it, just make the suspension not move at a certain point, problem solved... 💀

[full drift]

levitating car

[full drift]

at least for the front suspension they could, maybe for the torsion bars they could have 2 different metals or have 2 different ones that actuate at different levels

[jagged horizon]

What springs does the front use? And leaf springs would definitely be a sight to see haha

[full drift]

The front uses a shock and spring with an anti roll bar and heave spring and damper and the rear uses torsion bars with anti roll bar and heave setup

[edgy anchor]

Both sides are torsion bars

And have been for a good decade

[heady vale]

Hello my Technical friends i have a question. So we see onboard camera right? So are the T-cam the ones who record those.? If yes how does the camera make it look like it's so low. I mean it looks high from the outside.

[elder tundra]

maybe you mean the camera which is on the side of air intake (i dont know the name of the cam)? for me the T cam (which is on top of air intake) has proporsional viewing height based on the position of the T cam

[edgy anchor]

The T-Cams on Broadcast footage, I presume because they want to minimise issues of either motion sickness or just to give people the most amount of awareness, have really really low Field of View

On twitter vid uploads of onboards they have some more FOV and they seem way quicker

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FO3-X8KWUAoFF42.jpg:large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FL6u6hvWUAIA2M7.jpg:large

[deft burrow]

I actually think the lower FOV is purely because of sponsors

[edgy anchor]

Why?

[deft burrow]

The more viewing time the track sponsors get, the more money they can generate

[graceful sun]

It’s also why the cars look slower than the cars of the 2000s

[upper ivy]

the bottom screenshot is from some promotional video by mercedes themselves so it uses a whole different camera than the official FOM T-Cam

though I wish that was what they used

[edgy anchor]

I'm aware

But it's not like it's impossible, or even difficult for the official ones to do so

[median folio]

What if for example 13 cars DNF in a race but the race ends at its intended distance. What happens to those who end in points positions before they DNF'd they get half points for not completing 90% race distance or they get no points?

[sudden scroll]

no points

4.17.2 Cars having covered less than 90% of the number of laps covered by the winner (rounded down to
the nearest whole number of laps), will not be classified

[jagged horizon]

As in a coil spring and air shock in the front?

[full drift]

I was wrong, its a torsion bar both sides, I assume they use oil dampers

[jagged horizon]

No worries, I thought they were torsion bars. And I think they banned hydraulic this year so its purely mechanical/air dampers

[full drift]

Oh wow ok

[edgy anchor]

The hydraulic heaves were banned this year

The corner dampers are Hydraulic because well they're corner dampers

But still I think banning the hydro heaves was not a great idea

[heady vale]

Yeah i found the answer:
I was watching gross Jean Saudi Arabian meme Recap and In Mick's crash his T-Cam got damaged and this is the footage it recorded. This can very well mean that the T-cam is the one recording the onboard

[edgy anchor]

... What else would it be?

[heady vale]

Idk i was stupid 😭

I felt that it was really high to record footage like those. they seem very low

[edgy anchor]

O

https://youtu.be/PK4rh8faues

Here's 97 when it was straight up

https://www.formula1.com/content/dam/fom-website/manual/Misc/2020delay/GettyImages-826744598.jpg

[full drift]

How u know so much bro

[edgy anchor]

I'd be very surprised if they ran corner dampers mechanically considering that every road car uses hydraulic dampers

[full drift]

When u say hydraulic dampers is that the same as oil dampers?

[edgy anchor]

Yes

Hydraulic is fluid

Pneumatic is gas

[edgy anchor]

I don't know

[full drift]

And I am pretty sure that either heave springs or dampers are made of rubber washers that compress

Not sure. If it’s the springs or dampers though

[edgy anchor]

Yeah so the hydraulic heaves were being used as mass dampers

[full drift]

Ok

[edgy anchor]

At least by F1's understanding

[full drift]

Renault used inverters at one point

[edgy anchor]

Renault used a straight Mass damper like a building would use because they were smart and cool and had Michelins

[edgy anchor]

The reason given is that it enables aero geezers to make more peaky aerodynamics which I assume is not as safe for this motive

The problem is now, which I will state like a broken record

Mechanical heaves are springs, which means they can have resonance

[full drift]

Ok

[edgy anchor]

Well porpoising is a heave issue

Either up or down or rocking back to front

So I assume resonance will further compound issues like that

[full drift]

The fia should make some stock components to help if the teams are having issues

Like make the heave springs and dampers stock

[edgy anchor]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/Y99MzvLY/s6/red-bull-racing-rb18-brake-dru.jpg

Mmm

Spicy

[full drift]

Do u know where the pivot point for the steering is?

[edgy anchor]

Well that's the rear suspension

https://cdn-8.motorsport.com/images/mgl/0L1Q3eJ2/s8/mercedes-w13-detail-1.jpg

Here's Mer's front

You're staring at the steering rack

https://cdn-9.motorsport.com/images/mgl/0k7EkDv0/s8/suspension-in-the-ferrari-f1-7-1.jpg

Lookit how clean that is

[full drift]

Looks nicer when u can see all the components

Imo

[bleak wasp]

f9

[short ether]

How hot are the new tyre blankets?

[sudden scroll]

70C

[short ether]

Is the metal part at the top the anti roll bar

[short ether]

What was it last year?

[sudden scroll]

80

[edgy anchor]

That centre top bit is the Mechanical heave spring

The two little smallwire type rods will be linked to the anti-roll bar I believe

[plush panther]

almost as hot as my heating pad 💪 (i have 3rd degree burns on my back)

[astral rock]

I want that

[worldly umbra]

Guys, do the drivers who are about to be lapped have to let the leader pass? like for example the 12th driver and behind him is the leader, do 12th car have to let him pass? or is it up to 12th driver to let him pass or not

I read some stuff online which is against what i knew so i wanted to ask

[short ether]

once the leader(or other drivers who are lapping slow cars) is within 1.3 seconds of the car ahead a blue flag will be shown

the car about to be lapped then has 3 corners to let the over taker through

if not, they will get a penalty

[worldly umbra]

Blue flag is not shown in the leaderboard right?

Cuz that's what i knew

Blue flag is not seen on TV, the drivers gets notified and has to let him pass

The website only said blue flag only used to warn a driver that another car on the same lap is going to attempt to overtake them

[upper ivy]

no in F1, you actually have to actively let the car pass that's gonna lap you. In other series that's not the case, e.g. in multiclass endurance racing the blue flag is often just a heads-up - but the faster car needs to find its own way around you.

[upper ivy]

and that's also correct. Of course the blue flag/LED-board might be visible in the tv footage, but it's not specifically shown in the leaderboard like a yellow flag

[worldly umbra]

Thanks that helps a lot

[short ether]

How does the BT46b work?

[feral vessel]

it had a conventional radiator mounted horizontally over the engine, cooled by a gearbox-driven fan at the back of the car. The engine bay was shrouded and sealed by flexible skirts running on the track, the radiator fed with air but also the car was sucked down onto the ground, which gave a lot of downforce.

the faster the engine ran, the more suction the car generates.

[sudden scroll]

imagine this with a cvt

[worldly ferry]

i want to ask something about turbo

why does it need an intercooler

cause when intake air comes in it gets compressed

isnt that enough charge for the engine

cant you send air from turbo straight to engine

instead of turbo-intercooler-engine

[edgy anchor]

An Intercooler cools that compressed charge air which not only increases its' pressure further, but reduces the temperature. Ironically enough one of the main issues with combustion is heat

If that hot hair gets compressed further in a hot combustion chamber, further raising it's temperature, it increases the likelyhood of uncontrolled detonation

The fuel gets more prone to auto ignition the hotter it gets

However something like a Methanol runner can get away with this, as Methanol is so small it's almost endothermic in burning so it'll suck the heat right out of the engine so an intercooler isn't necessary when you have frost on your intake plenum

[worldly ferry]

didnt know cooling increases pressure of air

[edgy anchor]

And also stripping the intercooler can be used as a power limiter

Well you see... A compressed canister gets cold

[worldly ferry]

ahh yes

[edgy anchor]

But yes when you cool something down, it compresses itself more as the atoms don't move about as much to keep gaps

Well... ACTUALLY, I'm thinking of it backwards

Cooling increases air density

[worldly ferry]

that makes more sense

dense air bigger explosion

[edgy anchor]

Yea

More density for the same pressure

[worldly ferry]

huh? how so?

so i turbo direct to engine wouldnt be as powerfull as turbo intercooler engine

[edgy anchor]

Yes

Because that air would be hotter and is less predictable with fuel

Reduces compression potential

Reduces timing potential

Just less power overall

[edgy anchor]

If air is hotter, those atoms have more energy to want to push away from eachother, aka... More pressure

[worldly ferry]

okay colder air more desnse but less pressure

hotter air less dense more pressure

but you want dense air in the engine

does the pressure of the air coming in the engine matter?

[edgy anchor]

Lower temperature allows you to have more dense air, for the same pressure

[sudden scroll]

interesting, i thought compressing the air with the turbo would rise its temperature, thanks for the explanation 🙂

[edgy anchor]

You always want more pressure until well... You detonate your fuel

[edgy anchor]

It does

That's what the intercooler is for

[sudden scroll]

oh ok, so i didn't get it wrong then 😄

[edgy anchor]

The intercooler gets the hot high pressure to cool down it to keep the charge more volumous

[sudden scroll]

this reminds me briefly of the thermodynamics lessons in uni

[worldly ferry]

im more confused about the pressure

does the intercooler change the pressure anyway?

or is the cmpressed air from turbo having the same pressure

as the intercooled air goin in the engine

[edgy anchor]

The charge air is the same pressure

But the reduced temperature increases the density

[worldly ferry]

ah okay that makes sense i understand now

so puting in a intercooler takes away super hot air that can lead to misfire

or overfire

exploding before intended

i dont knw the word

[edgy anchor]

Detonation

Which'll lead to knocking

[sudden scroll]

can you remind me what engine knock is?

[edgy anchor]

When you hear a knocking or pinging noise as fuel detonates separate from where it sparks

Thos two flame fronts hit eachother and create a shockwave

Which if resonant with the engine, it can crack it

[sudden scroll]

thanks 😄

[worldly ferry]

so how does a turbo wear is it the impallers

that have a turbine

or the bearings

[edgy anchor]

Either the turbine or impellor wear due to heat expansion and contraction which'll stress overtime

Or fuel dump that backfires in the turbo itself

Ot the torque/torsion on the bearings and spindle

Or oil issues...

Or funnily enough Surge, or underboost, the flutter we hear can be quite damaging

As the air is cut by the blades, rather than pushed by them, it can make the end play flutter, or just kinda act like an erosive

At least, as far as I can assume

[worldly ferry]

ah okay so f1 cars intercooler is the same as normal civilian cars?

[edgy anchor]

Yes, mostly

[worldly ferry]

the fin air type

not water

[edgy anchor]

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52d46dd9e4b0f63bcb07fa01/1501799395120-W8KNJOHJ5C0976819ADP/image-asset.jpeg

Oh no it's air to water

https://car-images.bauersecure.com/pagefiles/93699/hybridf1_03.jpg

[worldly ferry]

two big pipes wtf

[edgy anchor]

Yeah those two pipes are into the intake maifold as far as I believe

[worldly ferry]

why two not jus one big one

[edgy anchor]

Each bank

[worldly ferry]

thought it would be bigger

[edgy anchor]

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/52d46dd9e4b0f63bcb07fa01/1501799622066-RACCZG58HUEB0H6MDKF1/image-asset.jpeg?format=1000w

[worldly ferry]

here is mine it seems

[edgy anchor]

That's an air to air right?

https://f1tcdn.net/t/m/f1devblog/2017/ferrari-2014-intercooler.jpg

[worldly ferry]

yes air to air it also has a catch can underneath for something called PCV oil

i have no idea what that it

is

[edgy anchor]

https://en.f1i.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/F1-technical-analysis-bakou-ferrari-engine-intercooler_EN.jpg

Here we have 2 intercoolers oof

Yeah they're not gonna be as big as they wanna keep the packaging proper small, and also keep them as efficient as possible

[worldly ferry]

yeah im sure the material for constuction is something light and small

[jagged horizon]

PCV is positive crankcase ventilation. It occurs when small amounts of combustion pressure finds its way past the piston rings and pressurises the crankcase, the excess air pressure is vented out through the PCV valve, but an oily mist is often carried with the air and the catch can filters the oily air and 'catches' it into the can

[plush panther]

On average, how many visor tear offs do drivers go through in a race?

[worldly ferry]

are there many layers?

[worldly ferry]

wow fantastic definition i didnt know this

[orchid burrow]

5?

[prisma dome]

depends on how dirty they get? no need to tear one off when its not dirty

[jagged horizon]

Thanks, in f1 i think there is a limit to how much oil can be lost during a race. A few years ago I'm pretty sure teams were exploiting this fact to channel oil into the intake to gain a tiny bit more power as there was a limit on max fuel flow

[worldly ferry]

can puting oil in the intake make more power?

[fallen tulip]

you can burn it

[jagged horizon]

Yep, very very slight amounts of power but enough for teams to exploit it

[silent harness]

normally how many laps (in-lap, on-lap and out-lap, time to change car setting in pit are all counted) can a car do in a single practise section?

[hoary dock]

Guys

I have a question

What are that things that look like shark teeth?

[jagged rose]

random thought: would mazda rotary engines be allowed in F1?

[feral vessel]

it's made to reduce wake on the helmet and helmet lift.

[feral vessel]

no

Article 5.2.1 states of the technical regulations states:

Only 4-stroke engines with reciprocating pistons are permitted

[hoary dock]

What the name

Anyways thanks for the answer

[feral vessel]

I'm not sure of the name, but I'm sure of its effect.

[hoary dock]

Ah

Alright

[feral vessel]

but you could call it a Mountain-Shaped Windscreen

[edgy anchor]

Since 81, nawh

[deft burrow]

I've heard Mike Elliott call it an airflow deflector in the past

[plush panther]

Are the wheel nut guns standardized across teams?

[merry delta]

I don't believe so; though I may be wrong

[marble osprey]

Eight guns are laid out for a pitstop (one for each wheel plus one spare for each gunner in case of failures). They are extensively customised by the teams but a recent rule change demands they be powered only by compressed air or nitrogen.

From the Mclaren website, (F1 Playbook tab)

If you look up pictures of the different teams pit stops you can see the mechanics holding different designed wrenches so its safe to assume they are different

[silent harness]

anyone？

[upper ivy]

well, at most about 2/3 of however many laps there are in a race (fp duration 60 minutes; races typically last roughly 90 minutes).

teams of course run different programs and might sometimes just not do laps even though they could in theory, so the theoretical maximum typically isn't reached

[silent harness]

ok so just like two sprint races?

[upper ivy]

in theory that would be about the maximum, yes

in reality, most teams do less than that depending on what they want to do

[silent harness]

ok

[gray knoll]

is ther a time limit for how quickly the race leader needs to restard the race after a saftey car

[nocturne dock]

green flag = go

no time to wait

[gray knoll]

nah but like if you were lap 49/50, could you just go slow till the finish

[drowsy nacelle]

With only 2-3 corners left? for sure

I think the decision is subjective, but you have to restart at the next long passage else it becomes questionable?

That makes sense?

And if it is a safety car

It goes into the pits

and the pits always have straight

straights*

[gray knoll]

ye abut hypothetically,

you could just never restart the race

[drowsy nacelle]

So the driver has to restart before the pit straight as a thumb rule

objectively? Idk

[gray knoll]

is there a rule

that says you ahve to restart lmao

[drowsy nacelle]

It is mentioned in the sporting regulations

58.12

58.12 If track conditions are considered unsuitable to resume the sprint session or the race
from a standing start, the message “ROLLING START” will be sent to all Competitors
using the official messaging system, at a time no later than one (1) minute signal detailed
in Article 58.5.
When the clerk of the course decides it is safe to call in the safety car a message
“ROLLING START” will be sent to all Competitors using the official messaging system,
all FIA light panels will display “RS” and the safety car’s orange lights will be
extinguished. This will be the signal to the Competitors and drivers that the safety car
will be entering the pit lane at the end of that lap.
At this point the first car in line behind the safety car may dictate the pace and, if
necessary, fall more than ten (10) car lengths behind it.
As the safety car is approaching the pit entry the FIA light panels will be extinguished
and a green flag and/or green light panel will be displayed at the Line.
No driver may overtake another car on the track until he passes the Line (see Article 5.3)
for the first time after the safety car has returned to the pits.
Each lap completed while the safety car is deployed will be counted as a sprint session
lap or a race lap as appropriate.

[drowsy nacelle]

no overtaking allowed till the start line

The leader can dictate the pace till that point

after that everyone is up for themselves.

[gray knoll]

ah

[west pasture]

I just read that Ferrari tested Red Bull’s solution to their porpoising in the Pirelli test. Does anyone knows if this is true?

Because I want to know what Red Bull their solution is

[rustic acorn]

Hi lads

I need a quick favour]

anyone know where I can find statistics for on track overtakes?

[rare crypt]

i thought red bull's solution was a super secret rear suspension trick that is buried under bodywork so no one has really seen

but i have no idea

[west pasture]

Watch this 😄 https://youtu.be/l29SZc19y4I

The video explains it, it’s insanely smart.

[civic fern]

@edgy anchor ever tried Star CCM?

[edgy anchor]

Whuzzat?

[civic fern]

CFD program

[edgy anchor]

Uh, no

Why?

[sly ore]

So do we think Mercedes will finally implement a floor/low drag rear wing this weekend that will tame its bouncing?

[rose basin]

What % will it reduce the bouncing by? Any guesses

[sudden scroll]

why would a low drag rear wing help with porpoising

[worldly ferry]

low or high drag porpoising is still there?

i think mercedes just need a new drawing board they got the design wrong and they made a mistake

they can only salvage now, but that car is not championship wining but definetly has the potential to be a midfield winner

[west pasture]

I think Mercedes will probably take some inspiration from the Redbull floor.

[short ether]

bro the mercedes design is not working AT ALL they have to erase that and get some new ideas

not that shit

[deft burrow]

They haven’t brought any major upgrade packages yet. I don’t think it’s time to completely “write off” the concept.

[short ether]

i couldn't agree with you more

[spice eagle]

They’re bringing updates to Miami

[short ether]

ik

[drowsy nacelle]

Was nice!

[amber kraken]

Always wondered how they sat in the cockpit

[fringe hull]

Yeah, when you know how they seat you start to understand how bad is porpoising for their health

[prisma dome]

would be worse if they were sitting upright? atm the load is distributed on the back. the neck is the main concern

[dense shadow]

definitely

would be way worse

[edgy anchor]

If it was upright then the compressive loads would be ughy

[regal jewel]

strange how much space they take up

especially with their feet literally where the wheel is

i feel like bumps would be really uncomfortable and track surfaces

[nocturne dock]

the legs have padding incase of big bump or something

[unreal delta]

New front wing

looks like they are trying all the new things

[fallen tulip]

what's new?

[plush panther]

The front wing but for real, here’s a side by side

Shit that is low quality

Anyways

The top section had a “clipped” part of it, but now it’s truly round

Overall shape is very different

[dense shadow]

I'd assume that's mostly just bc miami has so many short tight corners

a higher downforce spec

ngl the livery additions are pretty ugly

[unreal delta]

Rear wing is narrow for top Line and front wing for the narrow tight turns

[fair heath]

Bottom is old

Top is from Imola

[unreal delta]

https://twitter.com/FiratKeskinF1/status/1522499391428468736?t=uSIV9A9OgUmrrJQOlCEjcg&s=19

Fırat Keskin #F1 (@FiratKeskinF1)

Ferrari'nin arka süspansiyon yapısı. Ferrari'nin çekiş bölgelerindeki üstünlüğünü sağlayan başyapıt.

#F1 #MiamiGP

Twitter · May 6, 2022, 8:51 AM

Translation:

[west pasture]

Mercedes taking notes as we speak.

[normal tangle]

Nice

[tulip valve]

In case anyone hasn't seen it, this is the clearest picture of the mercedes new endplates i could find

[short ether]

.sessions

[deft burrow]

dude

[short ether]

i have a question

why isn't the DRS not allowed in wet sessions?

[spice eagle]

Safety reasons in short

Coz there’s water all over

[short ether]

aquaplaning basically

[spice eagle]

Yeah ig u can think of it that way

[edgy anchor]

Lack of rear downforce keeping the rears glued

So you don't spearhead off on a strsight

Another reason to not be a huge fan

[mellow sedge]

Is there a limit on the speed and power of wheel nut guns? Also where do drivers throw out tear offs?

[edgy anchor]

They just throw them away, onto the track or the pitlane

[dense shadow]

woah that's whacky

looks really cool

[dense shadow]

must be cheating

[silent heron]

• Horner

[dense shadow]

lol yea

or RB fans

always the first to cry

[strange torrent]

well, is there a live api for f1? something to receive the data during a race?

[tall wyvern]

If you mean telemetry, no

[strange torrent]

and lap time?

[chilly warren]

What’s the thing behind the C2 3 and 4 cause they change every track

[opaque mulch]

why does track improve conditions mid qualy or race? is it just temperature?

[merry delta]

it's likely a combination of factors, now, I am but a armchair F1 engineer, so take what I say with a grain of salt. For starters, you're correct, temperature is a large factor for grip. Secondly, over time, some rubber will wear into the track and increase grip (up until a point where little pieces of rubber start to collect on the track and actually decrease grip). Plus, there's always the case of driver confidence, which likely increases the longer they're out there

[opaque mulch]

oh ok thanks!

[fair heath]

did anyone see daniels DRS flap "bouncing"?

[short ether]

Dident know where to put this, but only a little over one and a Half tenth beetwen Hamilton and Norris in Q2

[spiral gyro]

yepp time gaps are quite close

[wintry pollen]

Pirelli decide which compounds are avalaible to be used in each track. So you might see in track A Pirelly supplies C1 C2 C3, while on track B they use C2 C3 C4, etc.

+the 2 wet compounds

Bcs every track has their own characteristics in terms of grip level and whatnot

Cmiiw

[civic fern]

Or in some cases into the intake, into the rear brake duct and cause overheating, into the rear wing

[edgy anchor]

If you want a good combo, of course

[fair heath]

.

[jagged horizon]

I did see that, didn't look good at all. But haven't heard anything about it in the media as his gearbox issues were the highlight. Tough day to be an Australian F1 fan anyway as he was looking so strong in Q1

[fair heath]

It was like the flexible wings last year

Wasnt in place

Was "vibrating"

Idk if intentional but

Caught my eye when camera was on him

[short ether]

DRS flaps are def not allowed to move

most likely a technical problem

[calm burrow]

This is from the account . formula_statanalysis . Can anyone explain how mclaren are so far behind on straight line speed compared to the rest of merc powered teams ?

[forest elbow]

Mabye Mclaren have to run a higher wing (more downforce) beacouse their groundeffects don't work as good as the other Merc powered teams. Beacouse of the higher wing, they can't reach the same top speeds.

I don't know it to, it's just my guess

(Sorry if my english isn't very good)

[plush panther]

I mean the scale of the graph is definitely contributing to how much you think it is, but still, milliseconds count in F1, so it’s probably just their aero package.

[forest elbow]

absolutly, but 334 kph is still much slower then 342 kph, when Mclaren cant find the lost time in the corners

[heady vale]

So is that the reason why mclaren has minimal to no porpoising

[forest elbow]

honestly, i don't know

[mystic pebble]

Anyone who is in college looking for a career in F1 engineering, can you please dm me? Thank you :)

Sorry to post this here as well in in #formula-1 , but someone told me I had a higher chance of finding someone here

[heady vale]

Mate are you talking like a whole career in mechanical engineering and F1

[mystic pebble]

I wouldn't say a whole career

I'll dm you

[spice eagle]

So like auto engineering?

[mystic pebble]

Yea any branch of engineering

If it’s not too much trouble, can you dm me?

[upper ivy]

do you work in the industry

[short ether]

@tulip isle

[tulip isle]

Helo