f1-technical

[rich gust]

2014 sound:
https://youtu.be/lDjtr0VhsZE

2021 sound:
https://youtu.be/A_srnMBPbN0

Both merc engines

[floral kite]

Different microphone positions, sounds like the 2021 cars is the same pitch, but you just hear more of the gearbox noise and the MGU-K etc

[deft burrow]

Nowhere near at this extent though

The side skirts being millimeters from the road were, I'm pretty sure kept the downforce at high speeds consistent

unlike now

but the side skirts back then being so close to the ground meant they were also extremely dangerous

because one chip in the side skirt could mean your life

[sudden scroll]

look at old videos from 1980 or 1982 at high speed tracks like Interlagos for instance

[edgy anchor]

Oh no the porpoising with Skirters was much more of an issue

[sudden scroll]

they were sitll very much bouncing up and down constantly

[edgy anchor]

Mainly from the skirts themselves porpoising rather than the car

They just ran the cars massively stiff to compensate

[sudden scroll]

"why don't you just sit on your wallet"

[short ether]

they changed the mics too

oh it was said

I think Audi and Porsche (likely others) had porpoising issues at Le Mans aswell

[deft burrow]

I had taken a look, how would you differentiate porpoising from the track being bumpy?

[spiral gyro]

Watch old videos of the cars in that main straight

You’ll see how much more the car bounces around

[floral bramble]

If anyone knows the op, pls link it here

[civic fern]

W13 crushed coke bottle

[jade moss]

Rumours Merc are going to have a significantly revised sidepod for the Bahrain test.

[spiral gyro]

I’d expect it from few other teams too not just to the sidepod area but other areas as well cause the teams got all the suitable data

[stark ember]

Mercedes were quick anyways with adding the grills to their car
Possibly they already had the part made and ready for testing or they saw other cars launch with it and quickly made it

I'm sure it'll take a lot of time, and probably too much time, to copy what Red Bull did because teams will have to change a lot of their cars' philosophy
And that's only if they see a gain in them copying RB's intake

[vernal elk]

do you guys think the cars will still make over 1000HP with the revised fuel?

[jolly tangle]

No

[edgy anchor]

If they were already making 1,040~bhp, and the E10 instead of E6, like chief

They're having not much difference

Not to mention that if they wanna go full E then the Octane rating will be much higher

And they run intercoolers and vents so

Recovering the power is easy, recovering the fuel mileage for said power is the issue

[weary gulch]

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1498265659880480772

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

The intricacies of the #F1 2022 stepped underfloor tunnels were exposed with a sneaky picture of the AT03.
There are new surfaces allowed to get the underloor working and to keep the front tyre wake away.
upto 8 floor fences serve a specific function in creating downforce. https://t.co/nqpQLPRT58

Twitter · Feb 28, 2022, 11:55 AM

[short ether]

howw did they picture that

[spiral gyro]

^

[short ether]

noice

[plush panther]

Ground effect my beloved 😍

[upper ivy]

it honestly blows my mind how small the tunnel-inlets actually are

I thought all of it was fed into the tunnel

[short ether]

I won’t watch f1 ever again if they go full e

[placid condor]

Ok

[edgy anchor]

That's a reasonable point of view but I doubt it'll be the case

[heady vale]

Vortex generators. Found in the Evo as Well

[cursive wraith]

No?

[spark matrix]

[sudden scroll]

Obviously.

[edgy anchor]

Bro I didn't know we had the inventor of aerodynamics here

[civic fern]

Do those even do anything

RICE

[tall wyvern]

Yes lol of course

[plush panther]

Might be poorly worded of me, and a stupid question, but are they allowed to use the front wheels for energy recovery?

[tall wyvern]

No just rear

[zinc smelt]

But for shure it would be interesting to have electric motors/genreators in the front tires

[nimble marten]

there's no space for motors in front tyres

it's already loaded with suspension, drink system and a lot of other stuff

plus it'll increase the weight in the front tyres, offsetting the balance

and it'll cost more for the teams

and the front part will be wider

but ofc, would be interesting

[nocturne dock]

drink bottle is inside the nose

and its tubing

[edgy anchor]

There is no ability to recharge with the front wheels, however it was/is in consideration nto add a front axle for the new regset, tho unlikely due to packaging

The way the rear wheels recharge as far as I know is jacking up the resistance in the MGU-K to increase engine braking on the rears

[calm burrow]

Would porpoising be an issue if we active suspension ?

[gleaming cape]

Idts

[deft burrow]

Most likely not, but active suspension doesn't seem like it will be a necessity

worst case scenario, teams add more ballast to the car to combat porpoising until they find a fix

[gleaming cape]

Yea

Also it’s quite a short notice to develop active suspension so fia unbanning it would not be the most balanced

[calm burrow]

will the minimum weight be raised ? Cause there are some rumours that some teams are overweight ?

[deft burrow]

I don't see why it should.

If anything, that just benefits the top teams, because they'll have to spend less money in development on how to reduce porpoising

or in Alfa Romeo's case, just add enough ballast to where its not an issue.

McLaren had the least amount of porpoising, so it is clearly not an inherent flaw of the regulations

[jolly tangle]

They were smart enough to fix it aerodynamically iirc so I don’t see as to why any team shouldn’t be able to the same

No need for a mechanical fix

[edgy anchor]

They want to add weight anyway

[halcyon void]

hot

[edgy anchor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/914818911621509191/949976968126939186/IMG_8124.jpg

[nocturne dock]

cars are already heavier this year and now the teams want it to be even heavier

f1 cars are gonna weigh like 1600kg by 2027

[edgy anchor]

Reports... Sited by MS Italy anyway, are saying they might've settled on a further 5kg increase

So 800kg including driver

Pain

[civic fern]

what

why

[edgy anchor]

Coz a ton of peeps are complaining that their cars are struggling to hit the min

[deft burrow]

This just sounds like the top teams don't want to actually put in the work to fix the issue, and rather ask for a weight increase that way their season doesn't get compromised because of a design flaw

Especially since McLaren seemingly was the only team that had no porpoising issues

[edgy anchor]

They want more weoght so they can make the cars longer and add more which is sucky

[civic fern]

Speaking of which how the hell did Mercedes and Red Bull weigh the same the last few years

The Merc is like a third of a meter longer

[deft burrow]

weight distribution

[civic fern]

Exactly

Where did all that weight go lol

Is the Honda engine heavier etc

[deft burrow]

I would imagine that the Redbull weighed less

but of course, they add ballast to meet the minimum

[civic fern]

Thats the thing, ballast is pretty much a waste for the sole purpose of tipping the scales

Its equivalent to dead weight in the car

I highly doubt thats what it really came to

Did the RB have extra fins on the bargeboard etc

Thats the kind of thing I’d put the extra weight allowance to

[short ether]

[granite tundra]

it isn't, having the space to play with ballast can be very significant because you have a lot more freedom to change where you put it and it can go down low and close to the car's center of rotation

[civic fern]

Actually isnt it mandated to be under the driver these days

[granite tundra]

that's the driver ballast

other ballast is free

[floral bramble]

So apparently the min weight has been brought up by 5 kgs from 795 to 800

F1 Alleged car weights in BarcelonaTest:
AlfaRomeo 795kg,
McLaren 798kg,
Mercedes 799kg,
Ferrari 801kg,
RedBull 805kg.

Red bull still 5 off

They are bringing weight upgrades to bahrain so they should be ok

[short ether]

source for these?

[floral bramble]

I believe it's @hlawiczka on twitter

[short ether]

Ty

[rich gust]

Probably too much of a generic qn but does anyone know what these were called on the 2007-8 front wings?

Williams had one that went over the nose

[tall wyvern]

Bridge wing

[rich gust]

ah thanks

Would be cool to see these return

[edgy anchor]

I love those spoon wongs

[upper ivy]

those wings look so huge

especially on that ferrari it just looks like a vertical wall lmao

[pastel falcon]

https://twitter.com/formularacers_/status/1500835523274821633?t=IfQhBInanHknqIIf8O5mCw&s=09

FormulaRacers (@formularacers_)

🚨 | BREAKING: The plane transporting Haas F1's cars and equipment to Bahrain has broken down in Istanbul.

There is a possibility Haas will not have everything transported in time for the first day of testing (March 10th).

[@tgruener]

Likes

13463

Retweets

531

Twitter · Mar 7, 2022, 2:07 PM

[deft burrow]

In person, they are smaller than some people think

[spark bridge]

Haas struggles continues....

It's better just to sell it as this point

[pastel falcon]

Mazepine might still buy it

[spark bridge]

With the current situation, probably not

[deft burrow]

Because they had a logistics issue?

[spark bridge]

Because they are so many issues in that team

[deft burrow]

The sole purpose of the team existing is to advertise Haas’s CNC company

You don’t sell whenever a hiccup or issue pops up, you know?

[spark bridge]

Would probably be better for gene just to become a sponsor of a team then to have it's own team, they haven't exactly been stable since rich energy

[deft burrow]

Guenther and Gene have both said the team is financially stable

and Haas sponsors Haas btw

[spark bridge]

And red Bull sponsors red Bull, that's quite obvious

[spark bridge]

Not only financially

[deft burrow]

The operation of the team currently looks stable, under the wing of Ferrari.

[civic fern]

i mean at this point hiccups and issues seem to be the norm rather than the exception

[spark bridge]

Losing it's biggest sponsor and driver 2 weeks before the first grand Prix is never ideal, they threw everything at 2022 and the Spain test didn't seem that good for them, so if this year is another failure, it's better to just sell I believe

[deft burrow]

Testing is to solve the teething issues, however in the article published by APNews

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-vladimir-putin-business-sports-las-vegas-6f400d2325deef5bf9b31e9b088d9d1e

“Gene Haas also said his team was financially stable despite the decision Saturday to cut ties with Russian driver Nikita Mazepin and sponsor Uralkali. The Russian fertilizer company is owned by Mazepin’s father, Dmitry Mazepin, a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin”

I am rather inclined to believe Gene, that the team is financially stable and business is operating as usual, despite the absence of Mazepin.

We need to remember

Gene is not in the sport solely to be competitive

He is in here to advertise his company

[spark bridge]

The things is though, if they are not very stable but it's manageable, they would most likely just stay it's stable otherwise it could cut morale in the team etc. Gene has threatened a lot that's he's going to sell the team, I'm honestly kinds surprised he didn't do it yet, so there still a big competitive thought behind the team, otherwise gene just wouldn't say he wants to sell when go's bad i believe

[short ether]

Gene?

[nimble marten]

the owner of the Haas group

Gene Haas

[short ether]

Genie?

[nimble marten]

Mommy?

sorry

Mommy?

sorry

M-Mommy?

[rich gust]

Dirty air vs slipstream?

[short ether]

Depends how close the car is.

[rich gust]

How about slipstream vs drafting

[paper wing]

Congrats @rich gust, you're now on lap 35

[rich gust]

F1 uses the term slipstream a lot yet Nascar uses drafting

But from what I've read they're the same thing??

[vestal blaze]

it's just different terms of the same effect

[spiral gyro]

^^

[zinc smelt]

Dirty air is turbulent air, wich makes it harder to follow another car, bc the car that is following can't create very good downforce

On the other hand a Slipstream also contains dirty air, but on a straight line where it is not important. the car in front so to say is punching a hole in the air and drags some of it behind the car. The effect of this is that the airspeed for the following car is much smaller than the leading car, so that means it can go faster cause of less air resistance

I hope this explains it good enough

[nocturne dock]

american english moment

[floral bramble]

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1501207551366549509?t=9TFhZXrpGIcowfFL6PVL-g&s=19

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

@dr_obbs @hotlapmode @T0mas_lima https://t.co/aVp7Uy7EL4

Twitter · Mar 8, 2022, 2:45 PM

This man is a absolutely legend istg

[heady vale]

Drafting is a technique used by nascar drivers. They use this technique in order to get closer to their opponents. Nascar cars don't have open wheels. Since they're basically a shell. So the air doesn't affect them at all. It more over helps the driver to learn the other drivers move And Use that as a chance.
F1 uses the word slipstream,this is also a very similar technique but You cannot do that for a long time As the dirty turbulent air and the debris can ruin the car. Whereas in nascar you can keep on doing it. Slip stream is used by F1 drivers when They feel their car is faster than the car in front. So they get in the way for the Dirty air. But as for aerodynamics as cars push down for Downforce the driver gets a chance to clean pass his opponent

[tall wyvern]

This is amazingly wrong, of course aerodynamics has an effect in NASCAR. Drafting is exactly the same thing as slipstream. The only reason it’s bad in F1 and not NASCAR is because you need way more normal loading on the tyres to get round the corners since they’re so fast and not banked.

[languid fractal]

Yo what's happening here

[floral kite]

Sidepods in the bin, thats whats happenin

I hope these rumours are true, would be epic

[viscid shoal]

what

that would be the most epic thing I've seen technicalwise since I started following F1 closely

we'll see in two days I guess

[heady vale]

I said that. "Open wheels."

[tall wyvern]

‘The air doesn’t affect them at all’ what?

[heady vale]

yeah okay i agree with that

[languid fractal]

As a joke?

[left kestrel]

does anyone understand this merc no sidepod thing

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1501251580124819462?s=20&t=MZtwa5q7JhffKYkjb5cwIA

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

Mad takes on #F1 cooling...
No sidepod inlets, air sucked through via a fan...
@PlanetGMA https://t.co/PYXCXLl0Me

Twitter · Mar 8, 2022, 5:40 PM

return of the fan car... ok whats gordon murray doing

[sudden scroll]

making his own road supercars with a V12 and a manual gearbox

what do you not understand with this idea

[left kestrel]

i meant the merc side pod thing. why is everyone saying that? and what will be the pros and cons of not having an inlet

return of the fan car, well thats just a scarbs mad take. how cool does it feel to say return of the fan car, i mean cmon, i feel like an 8 year old who has just discovered fire.

i know its possibly not true, but cmon.

[sudden scroll]

that's the account he tagged btw, if you wanna know what they do

[left kestrel]

i should be asleep and not trying to become an aero expert in one night

👀

[fringe hull]

It should allow them to generate more downforce on top off the floor and produce less drag because cross-section is smaller

[deft burrow]

of course it'd be Mercedes to come up with crazy cooling ideas that allow them to "remove" the sidepods lol

[plush panther]

curious, id like to imagine that wheel nuts on one side of the car have a different thread direction than the other, due to the rotation of the wheel? it seems like something they would do

[left kestrel]

thank you

[left kestrel]

i mean, its unimaginable that a team like mercedes will not come up with something amazing in recent time haha

the next isnt f1 tech, so ill ping you in f1 gen

[edgy anchor]

As far as I understood, it was some sort of wild report that people are getting creative with that was a joke. There was a simulation done with no sidepods and found that there was more of a drag increase due to the rear tyres getting a brunt of air sk

[left kestrel]

Ah dear.
F1 twitter besting me here then. The Tupac single Alleyesonmercsidepods at Bahrain will be number one in Bahrain then

[edgy anchor]

Scarbs or whoever scarbs is referencing is just having fun with the idea, if it could be legitimised

It couldn't be due to regs with impact structures and whatnot so

[left kestrel]

Yeah I got that. madtakes is what he called it. But I assumed those mad takes were based on something concrete

[edgy anchor]

Like Ferrari having pullrod suspension?

[deft burrow]

I mean, you could have the impact structures outside of the car

like Ferrari did in 2018 iirc

[edgy anchor]

Eh?

[plush panther]

Anyone?

[deft burrow]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.tech-insight-ferraris-clever-crash-structure-solution.2isdJOibneSawM2Kcs2kg2.html

Sorry, they introduced it in 2017

[edgy anchor]

Yes, this is the case with single lug nuts in road cars too, hence the Porsche Carrera GT having blue on one side and red on the other.
This being because if a wheel rotates in the same direction as the nut loosens, the momentum of launching or whatnot could work like an impact of a torque gun and start to loosen it, whereas if it were the opposite way the momentum and air resistance would keep it nice and tight

They have spring loaded lock parts anyway, which stop the wheelnut just falling off if it gets loose, but

[plush panther]

Cool!

[edgy anchor]

So say the right side wheels will be rotating anti-clockwise, the nut I believe would be clockwise affixing

[gleaming cape]

Lmao yes

[floral kite]

Interesting analysis about the possible sidepods on merc.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1501521152262422533.html

[fringe hull]

Hmm

What if the "no sidepods" will be extreme interpretation of Williams' idea

No cooling inlets there but it becomes literally a barge board ?

[edgy anchor]

Ugh

[arctic hinge]

latest pic I got online

Apparently this is a montage how the actual car could look like if the rumours are real

[opaque mulch]

Guys, isnt this against the main purpose of the new rules? Not against the rules, but the purpose of "cleaning" the air

[opaque mulch]

isnt this risky?

like, it could or not go wrong

[arctic hinge]

Mercedes is playing 4D Chess

But I think Redbull had something similiar, but they only run it once in Barcelona, not sure

[wanton bronze]

clearly, there should be a lot of work about thermal management in there lol

[edgy anchor]

You can see the photoshop blurring on the floor topside

[upper ivy]

Im wondering with those rumors why, if true, we haven't already seen such a radical cooling concept with previous cars

[arctic hinge]

@edgy anchor

[edgy anchor]

O

[wanton bronze]

because it's difficult to create/they are a grey area of rulebook/it's difficult to manage in terms of thermal conditions

also cons may be even more than pros, only track will reveal

[upper ivy]

I just hope those rumors will remain rumours

[opaque mulch]

thats what im thinking about, is like they better manage temp well, cuz we know what will happen if not

[edgy anchor]

What is this fascination with the no sidepod theory anyway?

It'd be worse for aero

[fathom dune]

Anybody got an idea what we are looking at here? Has to be a sensor or something, right?

I.e. something they would not run on a race weekend.

[arctic hinge]

temperature sensors

[modest gust]

Hi ppl, prob someone asked that but do u guys have a pic to show the areodynamics(the air flow, etc) of some cars, if possible like alpine,mclaren, ferrari or merc idk if thats possible but if it is can i have pics of them pls thx

[sudden scroll]

what do you want, some CFD visualisation with the latest models?

[modest gust]

yep

[civic fern]

Thats what im thinking

Where did this even start

This sounds like some X2010 or MP4X kinda shit

[floral kite]

CFD of Williams sidepod

CFD of merc Diffuser

[civic fern]

I will eat my words if Mercedes deadass pulls up to Bahrain with no sidepods

[modest gust]

haha

[civic fern]

And probably cry when the engine blows up during the race

[modest gust]

u guys have any other CFD visualisation???

mostly the front wing if possible thx

[edgy anchor]

I am absolutely certain that'll still have sidepods, there's no benefit that I am aware of to having none

[modest gust]

thx but if have more that would be good though if it can be ferrari 2022 thx

[wanton bronze]

also mercedes engines are not well known to be very reliable

[tulip nebula]

How have computers changed Formula 1?

[modest gust]

yall have cdf of the 2022 floor by any chance...(sorry for spaming)

[tall wyvern]

Ask Ferrari lol how would anybody have CFD data

[fathom dune]

Where is this from?

[dusty wave]

https://www.instagram.com/formula.jokes/

[fair heath]

One of the ugliest modifications in recent times

[tacit summit]

Is that from Spain

[tall wyvern]

It’s a fan

It literally sits on the halo in the garage to cool the driver

[dusty wave]

thank u

[tacit summit]

Ah ok

[runic radish]

so much cleaner

[open crater]

Are the rumours regarding the no-sidepod thing actually plausible on an F1 car?

Like

How would that work exactly?

[verbal glen]

Does that even fit the regulations tf?

[short ether]

.

[civic fern]

By using a fan to suck the air into the engine

At least thats the idea

How viable/legal that is, is a different matter lol

[open crater]

Sounds interesting

[merry delta]

absolutely insane

[open crater]

How much time could they theoretically gain by doing this?

[versed inlet]

not sure

but my guess is the drag coefficient is greatly reduced

so their straight line speed will def be impacted

also something going unnoticed with these photos is the new floor

none of the side wrinkles anymore

[sudden scroll]

True

[merry delta]

well, I'm not too surprised, they reverted from the wiggly floor last year as is

[crystal forum]

What’s that whole then on the side?Is that still a “side pod”?

[merry delta]

I mean, it should be. The intake is vertical instead of horizontal

[short ether]

merc forgot their sidepods at home guys nothing to worry about

[crystal forum]

So just less space it’s taking up? I’m guessing there is another radiator somewhere else

[spice eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/yeah-excellent-extra-hello-hello-u-gif-21823546

nortttt

[languid fractal]

Wow so it was real

[sudden scroll]

@main horizon no shitposting here

[stable trench]

did merc actually fuck up by eliminating sidepods

[main horizon]

Sorry

[sudden scroll]

That's what testing is for, to see if it's a viable option

[stable trench]

someone said it's porpoising like mad and there's virtually no ground effect so i just wondered

[sudden scroll]

It is porpoising yes, but that's an indicator the venturi tunnels are doing their thing

How bad was the porpoising with the flat bottom floor ground effects we had before?

[tall wyvern]

How can it be porpoising if there’s virtually no ground effect?

[arctic hinge]

Amazing what does genius are able to read out from the regulations. But it doesn’t mean it will be the fastest. They can still go to the old design

[runic radish]

if it's worse than ferrari's than it can make sense why mercedes is trying new sidepods with newer undertrays

[floral bramble]

It's empty in the sidepods of the astons

F1-75s engine

[jolly tangle]

Doesn’t look to be a very tightly packaged car ngl

[calm urchin]

Guys whats the idea behind the merc design?

Why are the sidepods so small

Like not the usual square design

[true pendant]

i cant even see any sidepods there

its all i am seeing on facebook and everyhwere

merce side pods

[runic radish]

yea because it is completely different and goes against the norm

[true pendant]

but not illegal?

any performance advantage?

[runic radish]

it is not illegal at all

[true pendant]

then why is horner crying?

[runic radish]

there is no rule saying that the sidepods need to large

in fact the teams can run no sidepods if they want

[runic radish]

what else do you expect?

[true pendant]

he is such a niusance

all the TP are quite

[runic radish]

this side is very interesting

[true pendant]

how so?

can RB also close their side pods?

[runic radish]

yes if they want to but i don't it will benifit their aero package

or their floor design

[karmic bronze]

can we still call it sidepod ? its very slim though. I wonder if merc have some better cooling and reliability this season

[runic radish]

so it's completely pointless to go through that route, unless they radically change it

[runic radish]

yes, it is physically a vent that sucks in air to the engine

[true pendant]

what is aero package?

[runic radish]

the entire aero of the car, front wing, rear wing, side skirts

they all need to work together to be effecient

mercededs has already said that the car has gained significant performance with this new design

simulation though

[karmic bronze]

yes, technically correct. maybe a very slim sidepod for the name. I wonder if it won't disturb the cooling in the race distance

by just looking at it, drag should be reduced

[runic radish]

that's what they call it, a slim sidepod

[runic radish]

that's they're main goal and what they're going for

this also what williams came up with

[karmic bronze]

to direct wind and help accelerate it on the other side ?

[runic radish]

yep

[karmic bronze]

interesting, it makes me feel curious about the team's crazy innovation real works on race day

[runic radish]

that's what they do

[merry delta]

yep, I was thinking the same thing. Radical does not always mean fast

[arctic hinge]

Let's see how it goes... Horner is already bitching about but from what I heard no one seems to care about his bitching in the Paddock but people are mostly interested in the Mercedes Concept than allying with RedBull to protest

[modest gust]

Is this a good idea, cause ik merc and they are good with the cars and stuff but having a small ass sidepod is good?

[arctic hinge]

Honestly I don't know, they could use this version for different tracks, for example in Bahrain they use the normal spec and Brasil they use this spec, but like we talked before, radical looks doesn't mean they are radically fast but this is very good for the sport giving more specs to the sport, making engineers getting out of their comfort zone. We all should thank this BigBrain dudes who knock their head and decided to do this, because it will make others look into it and think, test and try to make a similar one

[calm burrow]

what happens when they go to mexico and the air density is very low will they need to expand their sidepods ?

[silent heron]

I don’t think that’s allowed. Since you can’t expand inlets they’ll open outlets like they’ve always done

[calm burrow]

can you go double pushrod ?

[sudden scroll]

What

[calm burrow]

pushrod on the front and rear ?

[edgy anchor]

Of course you could, yea

[strong wave]

From what I see, it looks like they got their Spain Intake and turned it 90 degrees

[modest gust]

Is anyone in here a cfd expert or knows well this topic of f1

[weary gulch]

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1501860657788071940

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

From ahead the jelly mould sidepods, do have inlets and side radiators.
To create the shape the side impact spars are detached from the sidepod and have their own shroud shared with the mirror mount. https://t.co/LIpUkhD8TO

Likes

512

Twitter · Mar 10, 2022, 10:00 AM

[brazen valley]

even though this would never happen, what would happen if no driver completed a lap in Q3? would they just go off of lap times from Q2

[upper ivy]

yes, i believe so

however if drivers have left the pits, they will be ranked in the order of when they left

[brazen valley]

ohhh ok

[gleaming cape]

That’s how seb got pole when he was in rb

Frgting the race name

He got the pole position from the garage

[deft burrow]

Singapore.

[gleaming cape]

2013

[tribal nacelle]

what side, i dont see one

[runic radish]

small sucking zone

[open crater]

Didn't he get that because his lap time was just that fast and no one could top it?

[crimson granite]

yes

[plush panther]

Not so car oriented, but this can’t be good for the drivers physically, can it?

And 50+ laps of that?

[deft burrow]

The drivers did it in the 80's

on arguably much worse surfaces

[plush panther]

Well that doesn’t mean much

There’s also like 2x as many races in a season

[jolly tangle]

Drivers in the 80’s raced in much less compact cars and were themselves psychically built different tho

[deft burrow]

what do you mean by physically built different

[spiral gyro]

I mean drivers have done a lot of laps

But they have not reported problems

If they are facing problems with porpoising then yes ofc immediate measures will be taken but it’s ok for now.

[deft burrow]

It looks worse to us than it is to them

cause when you're driving the car, your eyes make it feel more stable than it really is

[azure wind]

Guys wasn't DRS supposed to be banned in 2022

Why did it come back

[jolly tangle]

Drivers were a lot more rugged-ly built in the previous groundeffect era compared to now

[sudden scroll]

They didn't exercise nearly as much as now

[deft burrow]

It was never gonna be removed for 2022

[azure wind]

Oh

I thought that the new regs compensated for the loss of drs

[sudden scroll]

No, they aim at removing it sometime in the future

[jolly tangle]

I’ve heard that they’re trying to find a different place for the system, besides the rear wing

[deft burrow]

I would argue that drivers now are much more "rugged" than they were in the past.

Maybe not in arm strength anymore, but definitely in other areas.

[jolly tangle]

They’re definitely more resistant to G forces, given that their necks are the size of Pluto.

But imo, the ground effect cars this time will take a higher amount of toll on drivers.

[harsh pilot]

I confused. What is this thing on the Back of Ferrari Steering Wheel?

[deft burrow]

It's a switch

Some teams use those style, others like Mercedes use buttons

[harsh pilot]

Like, Example : Magic Button?

[spiral gyro]

No, they have that in both the sides one for drs and another which I’m not sure

Not magic button

[harsh pilot]

Thx for the info @spiral gyro and @deft burrow

[spiral gyro]

They may have a system similar to magic button but its located somewhere else

[deft burrow]

It's all personal preference to the driver

[harsh pilot]

finally my curiosity is answered

[deft burrow]

I know Renault uses an additional paddle set instead of extra buttons on the back

[harsh pilot]

Oh yea, that extra pedal

[spiral gyro]

Well ofc but both the drivers do not prefer that button to be in that location. Those to switches are for very important uses such as drs and even Ers but not for magic button that’ll be located somewhere else

Plus those 2 switches are used a lot so it must be located in place where it’s very easy for drivers to use whereas a system like magic button isn’t used as much so it can be located somewhere else

[left kestrel]

ok so, i am going to be extremely vague here. but more weight, if optimised the right way, can technically mean more downforce right?

are teams just reluctant to take off 'that' weight? making that car heavy? i am wearing my in foiled hat

[deft burrow]

It could help with a more consistent flow of downforce

Especially with these new cars

More weight can help the car stay down, rather than pop back up because of the Venturi tunnels

[left kestrel]

hypothetical: well if a strengthened floor has a better centre of gravity than another, but is a couple kilos heavier, it sort of can be helpful by just rallying for the increase in weights

but that sorta contradicts the theory because, its not just one team

who is struggling

[deft burrow]

Pretty much every team

[left kestrel]

yeah

[deft burrow]

I think it's McLaren as the only team without any porpoising

which makes me believe they went to an LMP1 engineering team for help

[left kestrel]

they look like they had sorted that out before spain

yeah i think, some old employee in mclaren went, "In my time in 1978....."

and they were like, "good point"

[deft burrow]

Since those guys have experience running the car as low as possible with the low profile tyre, and have dealt with porpoising

[left kestrel]

yeah definitely

i mean, unless they somehow, somehow, guessed, or in the sim, or in the data, or even in the shakedown saw that they could potentially have this issue

they were just not looking for this issue i think. all the teams

[floral bramble]

https://twitter.com/GiulyDuchessa/status/1501986869432705036?t=HmJ1uEgARVpevOkDbip8eg&s=19

Giuliano Duchessa (@GiulyDuchessa)

#Ferrari ecco il nuovo fondo montato oggi sulla #F175 : Più stabilità tramite bordature progressive del fondo (limita il saltellamento), forse un po’ di sovrasterzo in più da compensare ma sono stati capaci di andare un po’ più morbidi nel lento
I dettagli https://t.co/zccOYKm1m8 https://t.co/nb1jFbv824

Likes

469

Twitter · Mar 10, 2022, 6:22 PM

[calm burrow]

can you rev the f1 engine to 15000 rpm now

current gen 1.6 v6

[sudden scroll]

the issue is always fuel consumption

as for your question.. the technical regulations are pinned!

[deft burrow]

I think these V6’s could go up to 20,000 RPM, but then you get to a point where it’s not efficient at all

[floral kite]

Large floor vibrations under front lockup into T10 on Ferrari F1-75 https://i.imgur.com/9DV4Fzd.gif

[jolly tangle]

Oof

[spice eagle]

why everyone locking up on t10?

[floral kite]

Heavy braking zone with camber, where cars are also required to turn. Has always been a common place for front left lock-ups. The stiffer cars are likely contributing to higher chance of locking as wlel

[spice eagle]

thx

[nocturne dock]

u could since 2014 but its limited to 12-13k because reliability

u only have 3 per season to use

[cerulean walrus]

Can someone explain, why might the merc's lack of sidepods be illegal?
I can't think of any rule it's broken and it seems people are just sort of assuming it's illegal cause it's 'different'?

[fringe hull]

Currently afaik no one found anything illegal about them

But if teams protest them and 8 of 10 teams agree they can be banned

[cerulean walrus]

Surely it'd need to be a 'ban from next season onward' type thing?
I mean, seems kinda odd that other teams can effectively just vote to ban what is currently a completely legal design

[fringe hull]

I don't know honestly

[bronze echo]

to turn this on

[harsh pilot]

Haha Nice One

[deft burrow]

If I remember, Anthony Davidson said the drivers don't get enough feedback from the tyres and are having a hard time judging how much brake pressure they need

[spice eagle]

[short ether]

who said so?

[spice eagle]

horner apparently

unofficially

[spice eagle]

there's an article in #f1｜media it's extreme but legal

[short ether]

yeah but they obviously changed their mind since they wanted it to go away right

[spice eagle]

sigh

[short ether]

probably horner talking too much shit

[spice eagle]

[short ether]

Binotto also wants to discuss the mercedes car but more specifically about using the mirror area for aero devices

[spice eagle]

ye spaceship mirrors or something right?

[sudden scroll]

Iirc ferrari got hit on the fingers with that a few years ago

[short ether]

exactly

I believe it's this that ferrari does not like and argues is against the spirit of the regs

[arctic hinge]

is it true that the new Mercedes did 12 laps in the same time as Ferrari did 13 laps'

?

[spice eagle]

they started at different times so i dunno. + it's testing so different teams test out different components at a. time

[arctic hinge]

makes sense but apparently they were lapping with the same tyres but we never know the fuel

still... pretty interesting if Mercedes is actually sandbagging

[spice eagle]

they do this every yr

last yr their pre-season was soooo horrible

it was as if merc was a mid or back

[arctic hinge]

can't forget that mercedes last season was already focused on this season but looks like some guys at the factory relaxed too much

[spice eagle]

well we don't know that do we?

[arctic hinge]

maybe we do

maybe we don't

[worldly ferry]

do those w13 sidepods cool the engine enough?

[merry delta]

remains to be seen

[worldly ferry]

can RB copy it?

[merry delta]

likely not since the radiator placement requires a monocoque redesign

Williams is likely the team in the best position to copy such

[worldly ferry]

if those small sidepods gives them the same pwerformance like the w11

horner will be in the fia office daily

that w11 was an amazing car

[silent heron]

He’ll get every team to sign a petition to ban them so Mercedes will only have 1 season of the advantage if it really is an advantage

[static vigil]

Can’t forget about Mercedes forcing the pitstops to be slower, just because they couldn’t match Red Bull’s pitstops.

[tall wyvern]

Or they wanted to know if they could copy the automated system red bull were using and the FIA said no

[zenith pumice]

can’t forget about how you can’t do basic math

I’m surprised people are still on this after so many explanations on why it was implemented in the first place

[civic fern]

Are you sure it was Mercedes forcing it? Cuz it could’ve totally been Ferrari who are still stuck in refueling era times

[arctic hinge]

it's all tactics

[civic fern]

I don’t think anything can beat the W11 for a while

The F2004 is the only comparison

The dominant team at the end of an era of mostly stable regulations with a 7x champion at the wheel

When the field is supposed to be closest, they come up with something so good they walk away with an even bigger gap to 2nd place WCC

And the year after, regulation changes were made that hurt them the most

[solemn sand]

the mp4/4

[civic fern]

I rate the MP4/4 below even the RB9

For the reason that McLaren were the only team that actually pulled up in an 88 spec car

Everyone else reran their 87 cars

[solemn sand]

didn't the f2002 finish on the podium of every race it competed in

though it wasn't introduced immediately

[civic fern]

The W07 had better stats than the W11 actually

But to claim the W07 as a greater achievement over the W11 is a stretch

But yeah the MP4/4 was like sticking an F1 car into an F2 grid. You’ll get 1-2s out of every race you don’t bottle, but you don’t know if the F1 car is a Haas or a Mercedes

Theres just nothing on the same level to really compare it to

[solemn sand]

the f2002 also introduced titanium gearboxes

[worldly ferry]

why not immediatly

[silent heron]

Well if it’s not an advantage there’s basically no point for them to ask to ban it

[worldly ferry]

what if its proven to be a huge advantage

can they not do anything till next year?

[silent heron]

They can protest it and “sign a petition” or idk what it is to ban it. They can also try to convince the FIA that it’s against the “spirit of the regulations” and apply pressure to ban it.

[fair heath]

what is switch on the top corner of the wheel for

[nocturne dock]

driver preference

some stuff might be mapped there

[deft burrow]

I don't suppose he'll have a higher veto power than Mercedes

Toto can pressure his own customers into agreeing with him, and Ferrari doesn't seem like they give a shit about Mercedes sidepods

[opaque mulch]

Correct me if im wrong, but are the sidepods in bahrain meant to not separate the airflow coming onto the floor as they did with the barcelona sidepods?

Apart from the fact that u dont have a hole going extending outwards creating drag

Note: the green lines are my own drawings trying to represent (very unprecisely) the airflow

[plush panther]

Bruh they changed like everything

Even livery and sponsor placement

Floor is different as well

By quite a bit

[deft burrow]

Spot the niki lauda star on the new car

[plush panther]

Og livery underneath ineos

[plush panther]

I honestly don’t see it in any pic on the new car, is it on both sides ie symmetrical?

[deft burrow]

It is behind the halo

[plush panther]

Ah ok

[arctic hinge]

yes! CFD! Amazing!

[astral rock]

Do power units matter and which car has thr best one?

[fringe hull]

We don't know yet tbh

Merc and Ferrari were probably running on a low power

No clue about Renault and Honda

[calm briar]

Guy?
What happening of Red Bull/AlphaTauri motorhome?
Why they because small during 2021 season?
https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1018561983-emilia-romagna-gp/1018561983/?tag=paddock&team_id=12

Red Bull/AlphaTauri motorhome in 2019:
https://www.motorsportimages.com/photo/1017485632-spanish-gp/1017485632/?tag=paddock&team_id=12

[fringe hull]

They have to save money

On top RB were the ones that struggled the most with money because of budget cap

[calm briar]

Wait...
I through cost cap exclude the cost for build motorhome...

Cost cap is excluding: Drivers, Top 3 staff salary / Marketing / Taxes / Facilities / Staff bonus / Entry fee / Staff accommodation / Super License
Right?

[deft burrow]

and a few small other bits

[fringe hull]

[astral rock]

Is cost cap the reason honda left?

[edgy anchor]

Honda haven't left

[fringe hull]

they've left in like 10%

90% of them still in F1

[deft burrow]

No, the direction of the company has changed

[sudden scroll]

like in 2008

[nocturne dock]

obviously and its mercedes

[astral rock]

Source?

[nocturne dock]

2014-now

[rich gust]

How did F1 go from simple looking barge board & turning vanes that look like a tuning fork

to something that looks like this

[merry delta]

increases in bargeboard size, advancements to CFD, rising team budgets, etc

[rich gust]

but like

Fuck I meant sidepod vanes
Its evolution from 2017-2021 was so drastic compared to 2009-2016

[feral vessel]

I think after the 2015 aero rule changes, the area in front of sidepods got relatively free to develop and barge boards.

[edgy anchor]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp/25keDgM6/s1000/formula-1-2000-illustration-20-2.jpg

Embrace tradition

[short ether]

the regs opened up with the 2017 rule changes

then even more when they simplified the front wings in 2019

[rich gust]

I get the feeling like every team eventually decided to take the 2017 Ferrari approach to its sidepod vanes last year

this was the 2021 red bull

2021 merc

just find pics of the other cars side and you'll see the resemblance they had to the 2017 ferrari design

[delicate kayak]

because the FIA wanted to reduce the aero performance of the cars for more shows and so it decided to reduce the bargeboards but realizing that the cars were too slow so the regulation changed in 2017 for increase the aero performance of the cars

[plush panther]

[merry delta]

well, teams converge on ideas that are effective

[frail socket]

we must agree that Mercedes definitely thinks out the box xD

[deft burrow]

no love for ferrari

they've got hollowed sidepods

[edgy anchor]

Why's that not love inducing?

[astral rock]

What's soft hard and medium tyres good for?

[grave fiber]

sex

[nocturne dock]

soft is grippy af but wears out fast

mediums is like balance between grip and wear

hards are the least grippy but wear out slower

[bitter quest]

Soft bangs fast

Medium bangs medium

And hard bangs slow but steady hehe

https://tenor.com/view/evil-laugh-gif-22378372

[spice eagle]

quite the opposite in bed

[bitter quest]

Lol

[fringe hull]

[civic fern]

Soft is good for qualifying

Medium/Hard is good for race

Basically in any given fully dry race strategy, you’re looking at whether the pace advantage of the faster tires offsets the pit stop it takes to put them on

[midnight steppe]

bruh why does merc have buttons on their halo

[edgy anchor]

I doubt they're buttons, but little pop caps to expose the mounting bolts

[fair heath]

Does anyone have a pic of the new merc mirror supports they were using

[fair heath]

Interesting

[rich gust]

Hear me out

Looser car regulations but a much stricter budget

In which teams are only allowed to spend a certain amount of money on certain parts of the car

[short ether]

I always wonder how you'd stop collaboration between teams

You can't really prevent 2 engineers from doing something akin to:

1: Hey so remember that no sidepod concept we were trialling? yeah dont go down that route, not worth it
2: Oh okay sure thanks

[deft burrow]

I think 140m this year is pretty "strict"

For teams like Ferrari, much stricter budgets just becomes even more damaging towards their employees livelihoods

[jolly tangle]

^

Especially the mechanics

I know travelling around the world with an F1 team sounds like a dream but most of these guys and girls spend around 300/365 in a hotel room, detached from their families

[fringe hull]

Imo salaries should be excluded from costcap

I know there are ways to overcome this

but case of Ferrari and Haas makes me think it doesn't look like that

[jolly tangle]

They are

I think

But livelihood's a bit different from salary

[fringe hull]

I think only top 3 non-driver salaries are excluded

benefits are excluded but the salaries itself not

But ofc I may be wrong

[deft burrow]

Mercedes had to cut people's salaries by a good bit to avoid having to lay off employees

but unlike Ferrari, Mercedes doesn't have another team to send their engineers to

[little veldt]

It should be only the top 3 count to the cap or someshit like that

The rest don't count

Decreases the incentive for teams to just buy other teams' engineers for a higher amount but also helps engineers earn a decent amount lmao

[worldly ferry]

why do clouds form at the tip of rear wings down a straight?

[vagrant parcel]

https://scarbsf1.wordpress.com/2011/08/08/analysis-mclarens-rear-wing-vapour-trails/

Slightly older article but yea this is a detailed explanation on why

[worldly ferry]

ok thanks

[zealous hazel]

https://twitter.com/LappedCars/status/1503709221736665090?s=09

LC (@LappedCars)

🗣️| Guenther Steiner on Mercedes' sidepod concept:

"Exactly this concept was our first draft. We had it in the wind tunnel last July and already realized that it brings advantages in slow corners. As an overall package, however, we saw greater potential in wide sidepods." #F1

Likes

753

Twitter · Mar 15, 2022, 12:26 PM

[spice eagle]

[fringe hull]

He meant Ferrari had that idea?

Honestly if by any chance they had that idea and thought it's good they probably just failed to apply it

[languid fractal]

Probably

[harsh pilot]

It's like Max's sidepod in Hungary

[violet smelt]

Mercedes, McLaren and Williams are constructively one family. Short side boxes and a slim waist in the rear help in slow corners, because with this arrangement the top of the diffuser, the lower rear wing and the many small fins on the rear brake ventilation are better flown. "Exactly this concept was our first draft. We had it in the wind tunnel last July and already realized that it brings advantages in slow corners. But as an overall package we saw greater potential in wide sidepods," reports Haas team boss Guenther Steiner.
https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-mercedes-upgrade-seitenkasten-trick-red-bull-ferrari/

[violet smelt]

more info and direct source ^

[civic fern]

Bonuses aren’t included are they

and top 3 staff aren't? i.e. Newey can keep his 10 mil or so

but for everyone else you just reduce salary and give them mega bonuses for race wins etc

like what Alonso does

[earnest jackal]

So, and I recognize this is a massively noob question, but I've yet to understand why Mercedes can supply 40% of the engines on the grid.

I thought there was a customer cap?

Williams, Aston, Merc, McLaren all have the MPU. I reckon Williams and Aston aren't a threat yet, but it's interesting to see McLaren remain a customer team after all these years.

Granted, RB only became a supplier on accident and on the back of Honda, but still.

[civic fern]

Ferrari supplies itself, Haas, and Alfa

Red Bull has its own thing now, and does itself and AlphaTauri

[earnest jackal]

Yeah, that I know.

[civic fern]

Thats 9/10 teams accounted for

[earnest jackal]

Im saying i thought 3 was the max

[civic fern]

And everyone avoids Renault like the plague

[earnest jackal]

McLaren was Honda and they switched to Merc like... last year? Or were they Renault for a year

Cant remember

[civic fern]

Aston got their Merc engines grandfathered from Force India days. Williams has been supplied since 2014. Merc obviously does itself, so it already had 3. The only one who was in question is McLaren

McLaren, who dipped on Honda and also Renault, and Ferrari won’t supply them

So from that perspective, who else is there but Mercedes?

And thats how you end up with the 4-3-2-1 distribution

[earnest jackal]

Fair enough I suppose

[nocturne dock]

honda 1988-1992 | 2015-2017
renault 2018-2020
merc 1995-2014 | 2021-now

[nocturne dock]

mercedes good
renault shit
honda left
ferrari said no to others

[violet wolf]

I dont know if this is the right channel but can someone explain how overtaking works. Like I know that drs makes the cars go faster but it can only be used in some zones but are those the only places were overtaking can happen? I also have no idea if you are always allowed to defend an overtake cause sometimes I hear brodcasters talking about it but other times it looks like drivers just let them go by but im not sure if its because its hard to keep an eye on cars behind you or because they cant defend at that time.

[fringe hull]

I don't really know how to answer

But I'll try

[violet wolf]

lmao sorry

[fringe hull]

Well

there's DRS, ERS

slipstream

all of them make it possible to drive faster that car in front

[violet wolf]

can they overtake anywere on the track?

[fringe hull]

Yes

but in some places it's almost impossible

And in some it's relatively easy

[violet wolf]

i see

and you can always defend an overtake?

[nocturne dock]

not always

[violet wolf]

are there specific situations where you cant or is it more complicated

[sudden scroll]

you can't defend while moving, you can't defend when the car is more than half in front of you (forgot the exact wording, lookup the sporting regs pinned)

[rotund kelp]

« While moving » you mean zig zags?

[sudden scroll]

sorry, i meant moving under braking.

also that's right, you can put the "can only switch lines once" around here i suppose, so you can't zig zag like the Michael would do

[violet wolf]

thats probrably the part that was confusing me because i was wondering why drivers wouldnt just always block their path

so if a car were to active their drs to try and overtake you, you can only move in their way once to try and stop it? and that resets every attack?

[sudden scroll]

yes, there's some trickery where you're still allowed to take the racing line back at the end of the straizght

[violet wolf]

thanks

[astral rock]

Kinda embarrassing question

But I still don't understand the purpose of wide tyres

[zinc smelt]

more tire on the ground -> more grip -> faster car

[astral rock]

What's morge?

Oh

Okay

So how much faster are the cars gonna be this season?

[fringe hull]

We don't know yet

They should be generally slower

As of now it looks like they are

[astral rock]

In testing they're slower?

[fringe hull]

Yes

[astral rock]

Okay

Will wait for the first race

[zinc smelt]

A bit slower i think, because of the reduced freedom for aerodynamic parts they can play with

[astral rock]

What parts?

[zinc smelt]

but we will have to see and let the season progress

[astral rock]

Okay

[zinc smelt]

like the bargeboard

[astral rock]

Will wait

Is removed?

[fringe hull]

Yes

[zinc smelt]

Because there are now the inlets for the floor

[true pendant]

Why do drivers do a burn out right before they line up for lights out.

[floral kite]

A burnout will heat up the tyres. The tyres need to be hot to give the most grip.

[deft burrow]

You want your tyres up to the optimal temperature before reaching the line, will help you get more grip off the line

Just like you see drivers ride their brakes at the end of SC's and stuff

[true pendant]

But during formation they weave weave to warm up is it not enough

[deft burrow]

Weaving heats up the front tyres, rear tyres typically need more than just weaving to get up to temperature

[granite tundra]

weaving is actually pretty useless at putting heat into the tyres

it does it a little bit, but it's normally a combination of getting a bit of heat into the tyres, clearing debris off the tread during the race, and sometimes just to build a bit of confidence

[fringe hull]

Theyre just extending distance to travel so more time to heat up tyres

[tall wyvern]

That is not why lol

Tyre slip generates heat, turning = tyre slip by definition

[wispy trout]

how merc cooling their engines? cuz so far idk

[deft burrow]

with air

[nocturne dock]

duh

[astral rock]

Power units

[nocturne dock]

same thing

[astral rock]

No

You don't call a merc power unit an engine

[wintry pollen]

Can a team run different liveries at the same time?

[nocturne dock]

no

BAR tried it in 99 and fia said no

[wintry pollen]

Because "power unit" includes both the ICE and electric motors?

[wintry pollen]

Ah

[astral rock]

Yes Ice, turbocharger and ers

[calm burrow]

everthing that give the car power and torque

[astral rock]

Thermal efficiency is the shit for me

[calm burrow]

since the new tires are a lot harder do you think it's possible t one stop bahrain

it you have checo/hamilton's level of tire care

[astral rock]

Hm?

[sudden scroll]

Pirelli says it might be one stops for many races

[astral rock]

Whoa that's cool

Will kinda miss them tho

[deft burrow]

The teams think Bahrain will be a two or even a three stop

[astral rock]

Cuz bigger circuit?

[deft burrow]

I have to find where I read it at

[calm burrow]

same circuit

[deft burrow]

but I recall vaguely, that the teams said the wear was the same across all of the tyres

[calm burrow]

harder tires, take longer to overheat

[astral rock]

But less grip tho

[calm burrow]

no in general the tyres now have better thermal degredation, they degrade slower

[astral rock]

That's cool

[calm burrow]

so you can push the tires a lot harder now and they will degrade slower

also when you follow another car dirty air will affect tires degradation less

[astral rock]

F1 tryna remove pitstops

[deft burrow]

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/f1-testfahrten-bahrain-hamilton-gasly-ueberholen/

So Bahrain won't be a one stop

[astral rock]

Ok

[sudden scroll]

No they dictate how the tyres shall behave for the sports, and make pitstops mandatory in the first place

[astral rock]

Ooooh

Nice

[edgy anchor]

Do we need to get that pedantic?

[astral rock]

Yes, but just for Merc tho

[sudden scroll]

No we don't

[deft burrow]

Likely not.

[wintry pollen]

Nah but whats wrong in using the correct term

[edgy anchor]

When you correct people on the term beyond it mattering

[civic fern]

What if its Perez driving?

[cursive wraith]

Yeah even I remember reading this, idk from where 💀

Wear was the same but the softs were tenths faster

[rich gust]

Do the rules dictate that you have to use the same shape of sidepods for both sides for the car?

[void ibex]

technically, i dont think the cars are required to be symmetrical, but it wouldn't make sense to have different sidepods on different sides of the car

[rich gust]

I mean

if a track has more right turns than left and said sidepod would improve aero efficiency through those corners

could it still work

[void ibex]

yes, but I believe the cost is just too high for the teams t afford swapping sidepods for every race, it just becomes to much st some point

especially with the cost cap

[merry delta]

^

[fringe hull]

Teams use Weights for it

that's why it was important for top teams to raise minimum weight because you want to be under the limit

[alpine gale]

Well it’s actually cause the engine is superior to the wheels

[zinc smelt]

RB hiding its electronics down there

[astral rock]

Race one, not practice right?

[spice eagle]

so they do this again

change stuff

[astral rock]

Why not

[spice eagle]

isn't it the same car whole weekend?

like kinda

but ye ig

[spice eagle]

not like as usual

[floral kite]

I believe he just means at the start of the weekend. I would expect these changes to be tested during practice

[astral rock]

They better not sandbag with the changes too

[floral kite]

They will be sandbagging until Q3

[wintry pollen]

the last lap of q3

[jagged rose]

What was the theory behind Brawn’s double diffuser?

[clear vine]

Go fast smoke grass (trust me id know)

[short ether]

RIP Alpine lol

Entire sidepod just said bye on the pit straight

[fringe hull]

again?

[fallen tulip]

basically, if I can expand a greater volume of air from the diffuser then the floor will work harder and we can recover lost downforce from the new regs

[jagged rose]

So it gave more downforce?

[fallen tulip]

yes

[edgy anchor]

The double diffuser was just a loophole that allowed some of the air to be vented to a higher diffuser above what was allowed, therefore granting more downforce

[wispy trout]

heard a bit abt mercs split turbo back in 2014 or something how does tht help?

[astral rock]

Didn't they replace it?

[fringe hull]

No

[deft burrow]

If you split the turbo, allows much less turbo lag and provides better cooling, which means you can push the engine harder. You also were given the ability to use a larger compressor wheel, adding a larger compressor wheel allows more airflow, which in turn makes more power.

[wispy trout]

dam nice

so they took mine turbo and kinda split it?

[sudden scroll]

Mine turbo?

[azure timber]

Random question, I remember hearing that engineers didn’t expect porpoising to be as bad cause they didn’t see it in their wind tunnels. Why wouldn’t they see it in a wind tunnel

[bleak peak]

Assuming it’s cause the floors in the tunnel are smooth

The bounce is causing it to be worse

[clear vine]

Can’t touch the belt In a wind tunnel, thus can’t simulate the acc on the track affect

It would rip the belt to shreds

[azure timber]

Oh I did not know that

[clear vine]

Yeah In a wind tunnel the car is raised

What is the main differences between bbal offset and break Biase (sorry I’m new to the
technical side)

[deft burrow]

The cars are limited to 180kmh in the wind tunnel.

In previous years, the limit was 360kmh, or 100 m/s

[sudden scroll]

and porpoising occurs only at very high speed, right

[little veldt]

yes

[deft burrow]

For the most part, but being limited to 180kmh would explain why you would never find out about how bad the porpoising is

[sudden scroll]

yeah, that's quite smart from them tbh, cause they knew it would happen

[edgy anchor]

The split turbo just increases the distance bwetween the intake and exhaust halves... So far less heatsoak, and you can now put your MGU-H in the middle, which will not mean a shaft interrupting your airflow

[wispy trout]

dam thx alor

[edgy anchor]

The only issue would be the torsional stress on the shaft but

Ehhh

[naive lake]

Isn't this wrong

It's not really technical but

[nocturne dock]

yea its wrong but eh

[dense kayak]

just a question, why do some teams, like alpine and ferrari, allow helmet cams? won't it show information from the wheel like different engine settings and such?

[deft burrow]

They can use a filter on the screen that does not allow you to read what is on it

from the camera

[dense kayak]

i mean i can still see the buttons though, and especially on night races like bahrain i can see what's on the screen

[true pendant]

Hey guys did Red bull ditch Honda for a new in-house engine or did Honda change the name to RBPT?

[fringe hull]

Honda is now RBPT

Only that changed

RB did because new suppliers will get benefits in 2026 and currently they are not supplying engines

[modest reef]

Hi guys, how are you? is there a way to see telemetry from F1??

I saw a guy name federico albano doing that

[tall wyvern]

https://theoehrly.github.io/Fast-F1/

[paper wing]

Congrats @tall wyvern, you're now on lap 5

[fringe hull]

Really interesting

Given how small Merc's sidepods are it may look even worse for them

that would also explain Toto's comment on way more drag compared to others

[civic fern]

Whats up with McLaren and Aston Martin

They have gigantic sidepods, especially AMR

And they’re in narnia

[fringe hull]

Compared to Ferrari they aren't actually that big

[merry delta]

yep, if the merc sidepods can't manage the wake properly, the car would generate more drag

and it's looking like that has come to fruition

poor Williams

[short ether]

yea yea exactly

combustion n engine n whatnot

[astral rock]

What are the changes ferrari made to their engine this year?

[edgy anchor]

They've made an infrastructure change, I believe upgrading to the split turbo, and then also they've made a new intake box that has the compressor side in it... In some way different to usual, so

I think to allow a pressurised intake before being compressing further

[merry delta]

nope, Ferrari stuck with the normal turbo layout, Renault was the one who upgraded to the split turbo

[edgy anchor]

O

Thanks for correcting me

T'was one or the other

[merry delta]

that's fair lol

[deft burrow]

https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status/1505271629718425601?s=21
https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status/1505271632335716352?s=21
https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status/1505271633719832581?s=21

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

#AMuS Toto Wolff says that the current deficit is coming more from the chassis side than the engine: "Our data shows that we are running with more drag. Our deficits in the chassis area are bigger than those in the engine."

https://t.co/b1UBWC611K

Likes

557

Twitter · Mar 19, 2022, 7:54 PM

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

#AMuS Despite running a bigger rear wing, Mercedes lost out in Turn 1, 2, 4 and 6. From Turn 8 onwards, they are as fast as Red Bull and Ferrari.

Mercedes: "We seem to have to compromise more than the other teams in solving the bouncing problem."

Likes

256

Twitter · Mar 19, 2022, 7:54 PM

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

#AMuS Toto Wolff hopes that they will make a big step forward once they know the reason for the bouncing issue and find a solution for it.

Toto: "Only then will we be able to exploit the full potential of our car."

Likes

225

Twitter · Mar 19, 2022, 7:54 PM

Now, is it a coincidence that all the merc teams are struggling? probably. McLaren and Williams are running chassis concepts that aren't very far off from what Mercedes is running

The skinnier sidepods would allow for more downforce, hence while Mercedes went with it, however with the rear tyres exposed, and no way to control the front tyre wake, contray to popular belief, this concept was not designed to reduce drag

There is some speculation going around that Mercedes are having issues with E10 not working properly

but I have my doubts, I think that if Mercedes realize this no sidepod concept has too many drawbacks, they'll revert to their original design, which should see them back on form

In which case, we know the Aston Martin is just plain and simple, shit. their concept, according to scarbs has so much drag they are rendered uncompetitive. McLaren can pretty easily put together the pieces of their chassis concepts flaws if Mercedes fix theirs.

Williams, well their concept is just flawed.

Jost Capito mentioned it was disjointed, so going off of his wording, on paper the concept was rapid, but I think it's a mixture of certain pieces not working together at all in real life conditions

So quite literally
2018 Williams concept ™️

[scarlet abyss]

Nice anal||ysis||

[fringe hull]

If Merc issues aren't really PU (which I'm not sure about) unless they come up with sorcery with the floor I think they will have to switch to old or even another concept if they want to be competitive

[calm burrow]

Aston the new backmarker

[rich gust]

Do the rules forbid any “internal wings”? Such as inside the sidepods or other areas of the car

[fringe hull]

wdym inside sidepods?

[rich gust]

Putting aero elements within the bodywork of the car

[rich gust]

What I had in mind

[fringe hull]

Isn't it side impact structure?

[rich gust]

No

I meant like adding wings inside the car if you understand me

Side impact structure is a separate thing

[deft burrow]

putting an aero element there would be quite useless don't you think?

especially when that area is used for engine cooling

[rich gust]

Yea but you could also use the wing to channel the airflow to specific areas within the car

Just wondered why nobody seems to be using the concept of internal wings to help increase downforce

Would make more sense this year especially since they’ve opened up the bodywork regs to allow for cooling fins

[short ether]

I assume they want strong clean air for optimal cooling

[plush panther]

The big succ

[short ether]

That’s a lotta words

Too bad I’m not reading it

[short ether]

this channel isnt for shitposting

[spring sparrow]

and what's gonna be its benefit or purpose

less cooling? 😏

[rich gust]

Increased downforce without resorting to wings outside the car since they're banned

I was thinking internal monkey seats in the sidepod

[calm burrow]

Here is some data on speed if you guys were interested

[spring sparrow]

but the wing will be enclosed inside the sidepod and air would be stuck there and airflow be disruptive inside the sidepod 🤔

unless something like williams to let the airflow free

btw the rules don't specify having a wing inside the sidepods i believe as it is imo not beneficial by any means

[short ether]

Ohh

[paper wing]

Congrats @short ether, you're now on lap 5

[short ether]

Wtf

[silent heron]

Not really technical, but I heard drivers have free choice of tyres for the race.
Has the parc ferme rule been changed or removed? Can the cars only change tyres or also setup? Is this only for Bahrain?

[deft burrow]

The Q2 rule was removed, because they felt that it didn't promote racing

which is a bit contradicting to say, especially when the starting tyre rule ended up with the big teams starting on the slower, medium tyres, while the midfield teams would do soft tyres and try to undercut, or in Monaco for instance, try to overcut.

Which would in turn allow for better racing to happen

But I guess their thinking is that because the slower teams were not close enough to the top teams to make a difference on the softer tyre, they decided to scrap it completely, which also just gives a bigger advantage to the top teams

[silent heron]

Oh thanks! So they only removed the tyre rule and not the setup?

[deft burrow]

Correct, Parc Ferme is still enforced.

[peak falcon]

They removed it because it punished drivers in the bottom of the top ten, it would have been advantageous to start P11 on fresh choice of tyres than most likely on used softs if you are in P10

[wanton bronze]

has someone already talked about engines yet? Is Ferrari/RBPT really more powerful than Mercedes'? Like has someone said sth about that on twitter ?

[fringe hull]

I feel it may be the case

Looking at raw straight line speed Merc may be even the weakest but we will know more after few races

[peak falcon]

Are tyre blankets still a thing or were they removed

[fringe hull]

Still a thing

[peak falcon]

Ok

[astral rock]

Whys it so hard to get info about ferrari engines

Anyone knows where to look?

[fringe hull]

Sikrets

[edgy anchor]

It's very hard to get info about most engines in F1 due to the secrecy around them

[silent heron]

Because it’s an f1 team

[edgy anchor]

Okay yeah, Honda and Mercedes show images of their engines sometimes

But like eeeeh

[astral rock]

Yeah but can I at least know about the old ones

They don't need that tech anymore

I mean it's relatively easier to know about merc

[sudden scroll]

they're still a thing, but tyres are warmed to 70C, it was 80C last year

[fringe hull]

Ok, almost halfway through. It really looks bad for Merc PU

It's quite hard to believe it's all due to aero design

[dim bronze]

3 Honda Units died out in this race

3, one from a fire, 2 from loss of power normally

and every single other Merc customer is down on power completely

[peak falcon]

Mercedes and RBPT are screwed

No performance upgrades

[dim bronze]

but RBPT can prove reliability issues to give an upgrade that may improve performance

[stable belfry]

Do we think red bull under fuelled?

[dim bronze]

unlikely

3 RBPT PU's failed

for 3 different reasons

[stable belfry]

Oh, fair enough.

[dim bronze]

and 6 Merc PU's were completely under powered too

both have a lot to improve for reliability

[graceful sun]

Merc just need to fix their internal combustion engine and make ut more durable

[fringe hull]

We don't know if it's ICE

[graceful sun]

Pretty sure it is

[fringe hull]

It can be everything including bad fuel

[peak falcon]

Wouldn’t be surprised if it’s the new fuel

Ferrari said they recovered lost performance and they did

[fringe hull]

Don't think so

[graceful sun]

The engines this year run at hotter temps due to the fuel and it’s making the ice problems worse

[peak falcon]

So it looks like Mercedes is that

[fringe hull]

Petronas just like Shell heavily invest in new fuels

[peak falcon]

RBPT I’m not sure

[fringe hull]

Imo it's overheating issue so they have to be turned down

[peak falcon]

Its not the fuel, it’s the other parts of the engine that need to be adapted around it

[obsidian veldt]

What was the problem of Honda??

[peak falcon]

Like if you put 87 octane into a 93 car

It will go, just underpowered

[wintry pollen]

So did the cars actually race closer?

[peak falcon]

Yes

More overtakes, closer following

[wintry pollen]

nice

how many overtakes compared to last year Bahrain?

[vernal elk]

Are engine modes still banned?

[graceful sun]

Yeah

[graceful sun]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1505595073429450755

Tobi Grüner 🏁 (@tgruener)

Talking to @skysportformel1 Helmut Marko confirmed that both Red Bull cars had the same problem with not getting enough fuel to the engine. Verstappen also suffered from a power steering issue that might have been caused by the jack during a pit stop. #BahrainGP #F1

Twitter · Mar 20, 2022, 5:20 PM

[astral rock]

Can anyone explain why hamilton went for hard tyres when he needed speed

Can't seem to wrap my head around it

[civic fern]

no one really understood how the tires would work in a race yet

and since Mercedes were in their own narnia (slower than RB/Ferrari but still a gap to midfield) they could experiment with strategy lol

they probably thought about doing a two stop S-H-S at the time

but then the hards turned out to be kinda shit and the mediums were better

[astral rock]

The temperature was cool enough for soft to work

[astral rock]

Yes this

[civic fern]

and for the hards to, well, unpleasantly surprise Lewis at pit exit lol

driving on concrete tires

[astral rock]

He said he didn't get that grip

[civic fern]

yeah he was quite literally the first person this season to find out that undercut outlaps aren't as strong as they used to be

first pit stop of the era

[vernal elk]

I was listening / watching through F1 TV and one of the commentators (Not crofty / brundle (bring them back to F1TV)) was talking about engine modes...

Was perez's spin due to engine lockup?

[astral rock]

No fuel to engine

Yes

Both rbs suffered that so design issue

[graceful sun]

It has been like that for nearly 1.5 years no