f1-technical

[short ether]

well, Ron Dennis isn't an engineer

[soft shadow]

Never forget... the most op engineer lineup that never went to success... Haas-Lola

[short ether]

mhm

what could have been

if Beatrice didn't pull the plug

they also had Neil Oatley

who basically replaced Gordon Murray (another you forgot to your list) after 1989

[soft shadow]

Newey, Brawn and Oatley... the mega lineup of building a car...

[short ether]

although Murray is south african.

[tired gust]

btw curious how much time does the halo cost you if any

[abstract pawn]

what

[tired gust]

lmao

[steel lily]

-time

they can use aero bits on it

[tired gust]

can they?

[steel lily]

it is pretty important for the total design of the car

because these cars were designed with it it would probably be a problem if they were removed

[tired gust]

ahhh

[steel lily]

i mean originally they probably were not good for the aero but now they are pretty important, the cars have to be designed around every part

those devices look like they deflect the air outward

[tired gust]

oh

[steel lily]

i would say that if they didn't need a halo it would help with aero, but on the current cars removing it would be a problem

[tired gust]

makes sense

[soft shadow]

Idk if this CFD model looks accurate, but you guys do the math

Not an aero nerd, but I don't think the Halo really affects much of the aerodynamics of the car... well the air flow going through the airbox prolly would but it's not much of a problem

[spiral gyro]

Ain’t a big problem really

Might create a tiny bit of drag but no problemo

[zenith pumice]

Keep this channel serious 🙂

[soft shadow]

Uhh.... Should someone tell Ferrari?

[short ether]

tell them.. what?

[limber girder]

Tell them what exactly?

[soft shadow]

Their rear wing spec for Monza....

[limber girder]

I was like; wait isn't Monza full on speed

[edgy anchor]

Unless they're banking on the idea that they're gonna be drafting alot and so will want the extra downforce to compensate

[crimson granite]

Well it's not definitive that they're gonna use that rear wing for the race

[boreal ginkgo]

nothing particularly wrong wif it ~ they even ran a similar spec in 19 even merc but yes its not certain tht is the race spec wing

[soft shadow]

X

[spiral gyro]

Look teams can change rear wing setups so ain’t a problem

From the looks it may look like they are running a pretty high downforce setup but u never know Ferrari’s plan may work but nothing to worry about if they see the car is producing unnecessary drag they will change setup

Another angle^

[edgy anchor]

Awh that shade of red looks so good

Interesting their wastegate shape

[green marlin]

The Ferrari looks so good, except the green on it

[limber sluice]

Yea everyone is in the same boat with this...with the drag

[edgy anchor]

I actually think if they made all the MissionWinnow logod green it'd look better

Or just the green logo with black text

[past blade]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/1436603116842110982

Tobi Grüner 🏁 (@tgruener)

Breakthrough expected from this weekends Monza engine meeting. Looks like all parties agree to get rid of the MGU-H. Introduction of new engine to be delayed till 2026. Surprisingly Honda will take part in the discussions too.

AMuS (in German): https://t.co/2r9QwTKa3Q

Twitter · Sep 11, 2021, 8:10 AM

[reef pine]

This is a win

[last plank]

so much juice here
standard blocks incoming yo
no mgu-h yo

Electric power is to increase to 350 kW
more batteries yo

[edgy anchor]

350kw? That's 470bhp

Or 475ps

So... What a 600bhp engine level?

[short ether]

why 600

[edgy anchor]

To match the level of power currently generated?

Like initially starting at say 500 or so

[last plank]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/f1-to-drop-mgu-h-setting-up-likely-red-bull-volkswagen-tie-up/

nice art @violet smelt

[edgy anchor]

FRONT DRIVING

[zealous mirage]

Hot Take :

Lewis after his crash, tried quickly switching from 1st and Reverse to try and get out (which failed)

BUT

This might have damaged his engine, just speculations tho

Evidence :https://twitter.com/y0jam/status/1437078295305232387?s=20

Yojam🦁🧡⚒ (@y0jam)

If anyone wondering why max didn’t check up on Lewis it’s because Lewis was doing this while max was trying to get out of the car https://t.co/2b1LCAigFG

Retweets

106

Likes

592

▶ Play video

Twitter · Sep 12, 2021, 3:38 PM

[abstract pawn]

Why would it have

[zealous mirage]

F1 Gearbox aren't really great are reversing, and what Lewis done could have damaged both his Gearbox, and possibly his Engine by the Gearbox slowing it down when the gear engages and forces the engine to slow down while he's on the gas

[abstract pawn]

Okay but how is that a hot take

And how is that a detailed and in-depth technical discussion

[granite tundra]

anyway here's my rant for the day

time to kick it into gear and go down the closed cockpit/aeroscreen route

this has been my problem with the halo from day one. it was effectively a stop-gap solution being pushed in under mounting legal and political pressure, at a time where other solutions weren't mature enough

[abstract pawn]

Is it possible to raise the halo? Like make it taller?

Or would that fuck with the structural integrity of it

[granite tundra]

imagine a similar incident with ocon

[granite tundra]

yes, it was done with the aeroscreen and that has even higher static load ratings than the halo

[abstract pawn]

Right yeah

[granite tundra]

there is still a significant portion of the helmet exposed, and while the halo is great for large debris approaching front-on, it still exposes the drivers to cars climbing over the top of one another

stroll at canada

potential there for significant ingress into the cockpit

[abstract pawn]

Was that not a point of discussion already right when the halo was introduced?

About stuff like a spring like the one that hit Massa still getting through and impacting the driver

[granite tundra]

compare this to the level of protection from the rear/sides the aeroscreen offers

[granite tundra]

the halo offers a net benefit of around 40% for stuff like small debris

i.e. deflecting it in a way which isn't ultimately going to impact the driver

small debris is also less of a problem nowadays, but it still isn't flawless

stuff like gravel getting kicked up can still really hurt, and it's happened a few times

then consider the extra protection from fire and smoke

https://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/aeroscreen-protected-davison-from-explosion-flames-fumes/4864048/

then you have pigot where a suspension arm was punched through the screen

there are so many edge cases that the halo doesn't quite manage to mitigate

and my major complaint is that the FIA have basically gone "job done, halo's good enough" and aren't apparently making any meaningful efforts to go down the aeroscreen route

and it's hard to see today as a big 'victory' for the halo or f1 safety because there are other, more mature options out there which would have resulted in a much less serious outcome

and like brundle said, it could well have gone worse if verstappen had spun his tyres up even more

https://twitter.com/ianparkesf1/status/1437107900569227269
this isn't the sort of conversation we should be having when there are other, proven systems that have been implemented which can more effectively mitigate this

Ian Parkes (@ianparkesf1)

Lewis Hamilton is set to seek the advice of a specialist due to his neck injury he said had become worse a couple of hours after the incident with Max Verstappen.

Have to say, Lewis did not sound at all himself when he spoke to the written media.

https://t.co/UrQlcCgdbm

Twitter · Sep 12, 2021, 5:36 PM

go aeroscreen, go closed cockpit, and if it pisses people off, it doesn't matter

those are the same people who were rightfully ignored when the halo was originally introduced

and that's the end of my rant

[short ether]

I just want to say if the crash today wouldve been Esteban Ocon. Ocon would be dead. I've noticed for a while that Ocon sits way too high for the halo to protect him and after today I think we need to get a ruled enforced so noone gets a broken neck or worse dies.

[granite tundra]

exactly, if the concern is around neck compression/loading, think about how it would pan out if the driver was sitting substantially higher

another problem is that there's no regulation stipulating your height relative to the halo

only between the forward and primary roll structure

[short ether]

I just dont want to see another person being injured/dying in motorsport

i'm afraid that's wishful thinking, but that doesn't mean the authorities shouldn't try their best to do it

[granite tundra]

which i don't think will happen with the halo

[short ether]

also agree for the aeroscreen, if does what the halo does and more, it should be implemented

the concerns about visibility should be nullified by now, for how long has IndyCar used it?

[granite tundra]

this is indy's 2nd full season with it

[short ether]

and how many complaints

[granite tundra]

there are still issues with heat, and visibility might be a bigger problem if f1 makes fewer stops to use the tear-offs

[short ether]

i don't recall hearing a lot of them

[granite tundra]

a reasonable amount because of the heat

[short ether]

makes the inside foggy?

[granite tundra]

just makes it super hot inside the cockpit

[short ether]

ah ok

[granite tundra]

but that's just one of the tradeoffs you make

same with the halo raising minimum cockpit exit times

you take a small safety/comfort hit for a much bigger benefit elsewhere

[short ether]

what about the rain? i'm not sure indycar does lots of racing when it rains so.. idk if this point has been prooftested

[granite tundra]

you have the tearoffs and they're also hydrophobic

but think about how unpopular the halo was to begin with

do you think there's going to be political will to push something like the aeroscreen or closed cockpits through when people already consider the halo to be doing a good enough job?

[short ether]

it depends on the support by key drivers like Lewis or Sebastian i suppose

if they can be convinced the aeroscreen is safer than the halo by giving some examples where the aeroscreen prevents injuries where the halo wouldn't, yes

in our case.. it can be argued raising the halo can be sufficient

[granite tundra]

i don't have any confidence in that

people were presented with black and white facts as to how the halo would be safer and people in the paddock still hated it

[short ether]

true, but it's not a real concern that people like it or not

the concern is about safety

[edgy anchor]

I don't think anybody has thought the Halo was better than the Aeroscreen

[granite tundra]

but there still has to be the willpower to push something like that through

[granite tundra]

but there are people who would consider the halo as enough

[edgy anchor]

Just that they couldn't do it due to the overhead intakes

Oh

[short ether]

yes, i don't know if there is willpower for the aeroscreen

wasn't red bull involved in its development?

[granite tundra]

in the same way that there were people who knew that the halo was safer than not having any head protection, but said it wasn't necessary because f1 was already safe enough

[edgy anchor]

Ye

[granite tundra]

there weren't a lot of people arguing that the halo wasn't objectively more safe than having nothing

but they just felt that f1 was already safe enough

[edgy anchor]

I don't remember how passionate I was but I think I was strongly opposed in favour of the aeroscreen...

Which I guess is still the case

[granite tundra]

same

i'll be cheering the day they chop off the halo and put an aeroscreen on instead

people really shouldn't be patting themselves on the back about the halo and the FIA today

[short ether]

only that they did it before it was too late

but that's not the end all be all

[granite tundra]

and barely

they deserve credit for actually forcing it through

but that was in 2018, there are now better and more mature options out there

[short ether]

yeah, i still remember the opposition there was against it

[granite tundra]

they shouldn't just get to coast and say "look, we did a good with halo 3 years ago, well done us"

it's not like the aeroscreen is even fundamentally different

[short ether]

no, in F1 if you rely on something good you did, instead of working to improve yourself constantly, you slip at the back of the field
safety should be treated the same way

[granite tundra]

but yeah, this shouldn't even have been a discussion

[short ether]

now, is there something that can be done as of today to prevent something like Hubert's death from happening?
iirc, the issue was his tub was hit twice, and cfc "can only break once"

[granite tundra]

nope

[short ether]

arf

[granite tundra]

it could happen pretty much anywhere

[short ether]

as in, it's not the track's fault?

[granite tundra]

i mean it can be more likely at some tracks than others

but fundamentally it's a problem wherever you go

[short ether]

yes.. and it seems we'd almost need a new material if we want to prevent this from happening

[granite tundra]

the solution is just to stop racing

[edgy anchor]

Am I the only one who thinks that the proportion of electrical energy they've gone for for new engine regs is a touch too high?

Sorry I... Different topic

[short ether]

no problem 😄

[granite tundra]

It does strike me as a bit high at first

But I think they're going in the right direction with an uprated mguk

As it stands, we could run with about 20kg less fuel if harvesting requirements were urestricted

And that's with the current anaemic ERS

[short ether]

that's massive

that's like 10% less right?

(at the bare minimum)

[edgy anchor]

Coz they're aiming for 350kw/470bhp

So I'm just... Like that's alot

To do a Hybrid with

[granite tundra]

But we have no idea what those deployment regimes might look like

It could well be a similarly sized battery but with much better K regen and a very high peak power output that can only be deployed super briefly

[edgy anchor]

But that's... For me that doesn't seem like a good idea

For a car to have drastically different power peaks

[granite tundra]

Is that very different from having the current ERS dump 160hp and all it's torque at different moments?

If its all deployment controlled through decent mapping, you can probably smooth out that delivery without much trouble

[edgy anchor]

Well no, because that's 160bhp/200nm... I guess it isn't deployed 100% all the time

[granite tundra]

I can't really see it being a big driveability issue

It's not like the old days when the drivers are actively choosing when to dump the battery

Though I do agree the peak power seems to be on the high side

[edgy anchor]

I guess it depends on the power of the engine itself, and the amount of time that deployment is for

I guess that's why they're going to a front regen, which also answers my question as to why the nose length is further extended

[granite tundra]

I get the feeling that the battery size won't actually increase that much

Considering how gimped regen currently is

[short ether]

it would be an excellent POC if they can increase the pwoer this much without having bigger batteries

[edgy anchor]

Well I don't want battery physical size to increase

I hope Graphene will start to come into the frame by then

So physical size/weight/density can be better

And Cross-Plane V8

[short ether]

i wonder if a V4 could be worth it

[edgy anchor]

Oh yeah a V4 would be cool

Like a 1L-1.2L V4

[steel lily]

What would be some of the positives vs negatives of an inline 4 vs vee 4

For example I think an i4 is more road applicable

[short ether]

won't lie to you... i threw this question there, but have no idea of advantages a v4 would have over an inline-4

[edgy anchor]

An i4 you can't do for a modern car

They cannot be fully stressed members

[short ether]

modern formula 1 car?

[edgy anchor]

This is what Adrian Newey said against i4's for the 2014 regs

Ye

[short ether]

hmm, how come it can't be fully stressed? not sure what the concept means in this case, and i remember there being some inline-4 turbos in the 80s

granted, they weren't very reliable, but nothing was

[edgy anchor]

So... A V-Engine is good because it has more points of contact, mainly across, so it can be bolted to the tub without needing a frame around it to support it

Inline engines don't really have that luxury

[steel lily]

Well that depends on packaging I would think

[edgy anchor]

https://racingotaku.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/dsc05925.jpg?w=640

[steel lily]

I think they could figure out a solution

[edgy anchor]

So you'll notice these i4's would have frames around them that would compensate for torsional/structural support which defeats the point of using an engine for a Formula chassis

It also creates it's own rigidity challenges

[short ether]

indeed

[steel lily]

Hmm that is interesting

[edgy anchor]

Also V4's are preferred in MotoGP alot because of their compact nature and lack of Second Order vibration that Flat Plane i4's have

[short ether]

i was thinking about the Porsche in WEC more

[edgy anchor]

Which is less of an issue because riders need that extra feel that that vibration gets rid of

Oh I know the idea is brought up because of the 919's V4

But you're looking towards more the smaller displacement end, hence I relate to MotoGP more... Also V4's/CPi4's at revs are just pog

[short ether]

ah yes the 919 had a 2.0L iirc

which, in the grand scheme of things, isn't a huge displacement

[edgy anchor]

Well I guess not, but 500cc per cylinder and 9,000rpm is... Not an F1 vibe

[short ether]

true. they'd probably lower the displacement even more as you said

something between 1.2 and 1.4L i suppose, if the manufacturers want road relevancy

(which isn't exactly what a V4 provides)

[edgy anchor]

So a 1.6L V6 would be equal to a 1.066L V4

[short ether]

hmm

[edgy anchor]

So... I'd love to think 1.2

[short ether]

if doing a simple cross product is the way to go, our current displacement equates to a 2.13L for a V8 or 2.66L for a V10

[edgy anchor]

I do think 300cc per cylinder was good for F1

[short ether]

yeah>

yes so 1.2L for the 4 cyl

[edgy anchor]

Y'know 3L V10, 2.4 V8, would've been 1.8 V6, 1.2 V4

Just make the revs 16,500

[short ether]

oh snap, never noticed it's what we had for both the V10 and V8 eras

what about 350cc per cyl, like when Williams was winning stuff with Mansell or Prost
means 1.4L for a 4-cyl

[edgy anchor]

350 was for V10's... And then for V12's that was 290 so near enougy

[short ether]

yes

that' why i said Williams, who used a Renault V10

[edgy anchor]

I just want 3.6's so it's 300 for V12, 360 for V10, 450 for V8

Even numbers breh

But I guess we just have to see, coz I personally wouldn't think F1 wouldn't go as low as a Litre simply due to MotoGP being a thing

[short ether]

oh no they won't care about MotoGP

[edgy anchor]

I guess this is creative ideas at this point so sorry if I overload this chat

[short ether]

still a bit of interesting points you've raised, better than nothing 😄

[edgy anchor]

Meanwhile I got me 4.8 N/A Hybrid regs

[short ether]

N/A Hybrid..

we want energy efficiency

but not that much

[edgy anchor]

Yeah essentially

Or Supercharged, coz... Superchargers just are objectively better

Coz I said so

[short ether]

hey guys

anyone here?

[edgy anchor]

Maybe?

[wintry pollen]

What does it mean when the engineers said "Recharge on" after the race?

Is it to charge the battery?

[edgy anchor]

I assume so, so it remains charged so it doesn't reduce it's lifespan so much

[soft shadow]

Does engine mapping also affect battery recharge? Coz if that's the case... it prolly really has to do with it

[edgy anchor]

I assume they recharge by putting extra load with the MGU-K, not just the brakes

[spiral gyro]

The output from the ers would be limited

When they are in recharge mode cuz they are recharging duh

So that means engine power would be down

[abstract pawn]

Both Daniel and Lando were told to "keep an eye on the revs" and "keep the revs high" on the cooldown lap after the race in Monza, and Daniel was also told "over 8,000 please".

Why would it be so important to make sure they were over 8,000 RPMs and kept the revs high overall?

[versed inlet]

I was thinking the exact same

surely on a cooldown you'd think they'd wanna cool the engine

[dawn kernel]

is there a maximum weight or something? idk

[dawn kernel]

i mean its called the cooldown lap for a reason

[versed inlet]

at high revs, you're not cooling the engine at all

found this on Reddit:

It is pretty common. Its normally not for warming up the engine as they don't want to cause damage to a cold engine by adding extra revs. I believe the main reason is to make sure the turbos boost is registering properly.

[dawn kernel]

ah

ok

[abstract pawn]

I have just never ever heard it from someone else so I was just curious

[edgy anchor]

If not for boost consistency, I'd assume it's because they don't want the engine to not be below a threshold where it's not allowed to cool down or lose oil circulation, and to keeo the load on the engine up, coz they idle at like 4,000 I assume they just wanna keep the reliability up

If the load comes off of an engine it can actually be really bad for the engine

[feral vessel]

https://motorsport.tech/formula-1/f1-in-2022-how-teams-may-interpret-the-regulation-changes

[upbeat mural]

What’s the difference between the small wing and big wing? Sorry don’t know a lot about the technical stuff of F1

[void elbow]

i think it might be relating to the downforce levels

big wing might be used on a high downforce track

and small wing on low downforce tracks

[soft shadow]

Small wing means less wing angle, meaning less downforce for power tracks like Monza, Big wing.... Shape the fucking wing into Scoops for maximum downforce

[void elbow]

yeh

[haughty radish]

ye

[leaden hare]

Ah ok

[edgy anchor]

I thought that article would show different looks that could be possible with the new rules

Instead it just said what's able to be done

[short ether]

Why drs mclaren so fast then other team?

[gentle sage]

I wonder why the single exhaust pipe.

[edgy anchor]

Because there's only been a single exhaust since the Single turbo engines have come in

[spiral gyro]

It isn’t the drs it’s the aerodynamics of the car which makes the car very slippery

[short ether]

ok

thank

[supple bison]

Hey guys

dont u think verstappen should get a grid start penalty

sorry

pit start

[short ether]

this is not the place to talk about this

you'd rather ask in #formula-1

[haughty radish]

he did

[dire owl]

Ya

3 place

But I thought Hamilton was gonna get it becuase he cut verstappen off on turn one

But they said verstappen could have brakes

[abstract pawn]

Did you read what Reb said?

[dire owl]

Who??

Who’s reb

[abstract pawn]

8 messages above

[dire owl]

Ya I was replying to him

[abstract pawn]

?

[dire owl]

Oh that message

Oh ok sorry

[dire owl]

Omg ur staff hi

[granite tundra]

fucking hell

[cursive wraith]

Maximum confusion.

[spiral gyro]

This supposed to be a serious chat

[dire owl]

My guy

My guy

This is serious

[spiral gyro]

My guy I don’t think it is

Anyways

[limber sluice]

There's always someone

[soft shadow]

Does having more complex aerodynamics produce downforce?

[zenith pumice]

depends obviously, if you have complex aero which is all haphazard then it won't increase performance

but if you specific with the way you direct air into different mechanisms, it could lead to more downforce

[spiral gyro]

it must work

[edgy anchor]

Having more complex aero in F1 terms is usually compensating for the lack of being able to make it simply due to rule changes getting rid of the opportunity

And while yes, it does make more, afaik it's still not as great as the clean alternative should it have stayed

[spiral gyro]

i mean like some methods of producing downforce will require complex aerodynamics

[edgy anchor]

N9w have some of the hottest aero never seen on F1 cars

[edgy anchor]

I'd love to see these combined with the underfloor sealers

[short ether]

Does anyone have or can find the McLaren Mp4/4 tech drawings?

i've looked everywhere and can't find them

[soft shadow]

Just search up Giorgio Piola sketches of the MP4/4

Piola does technical and extensive amount of time and research on how the cars were designed

[crimson granite]

this is meant to be a serious discussion channel

[dusky wraith]

yeah i know its kinda silly

[spiral gyro]

You mean blueprints?

[zenith pumice]

found this online, as drawn by Giorgio Piola

[spiral gyro]

Think he wanted original drawing of it which must be there somewhere

But the one’s by piola are pretty good

[zenith pumice]

makes a great poster too

[spiral gyro]

Yup

[short ether]

yes those

I need the measurements for everything, car width, length etc

[granite tundra]

https://group.williamsf1.com/careers/jobs
quite a few industrial placements up for grabs at williams

lots of wide ranges as well- aero, composites/structures, sys eng etc.

https://racingcareers.mclaren.com/o/production-graduate-scheme-2022

mclaren graduate opportunity as well, which isn't strictly limited to those with engineering degrees

[tulip isle]

oh heck, i need to start applying

[south token]

mate this is too compli for me

[spiral gyro]

Gotta wait for 5yrs and probably then🤷‍♂️

[teal oasis]

I was just thinking that

[short ether]

vs

[leaden hare]

no

[short ether]

OH NO

Alpine is in 7th and 8th

alonso is old

[leaden hare]

and

that doesn't mean he lost all his talent

[crimson granite]

guys pls use this channel appropriately

[leaden hare]

ok

[spiral gyro]

Oh for god sake

[steep prism]

Ooo I'm tempted

[short ether]

if you've got some qualifications, just apply 🙂 Worst case scenario they don't take you

[little oyster]

How much did it cost to repair the Mercedes?

[spiral gyro]

Hamilton’s?

If so

Wouldn’t be that much in formula 1 standards

We didn’t or atleast I didn’t get any news about the cost

[wintry pollen]

is 2022 cars gonna be wider than current car?

[edgy anchor]

Slightly, but only because of the wheel covers

[spiral gyro]

Just by a bit

[silver bear]

is 2022 cars faster or slower?

[steel lily]

I believe they are supposed to be slower

[spiral gyro]

They will be slower

[dense kayak]

Just wondering, what does " Safety car window is closed " mean?

And also what is the safety car line 1 and safety car line 2

[short ether]

Yeah I'm wondering that too

[zenith pumice]

the safety car window is when the team decides if during the SC is a good time to stop strategically, so if the team says "you are in the safety car window" it usually means "pit"

[short ether]

Ahhh thanks

[zenith pumice]

safety car line 1/line 2 is where the safety car period officially ends, on the track there's a line where the safety car goes in

it either does so on line 1 or 2 of the track, so the drivers need to know that so that they don't get a penalty

so you can't actually pass until line 1 of the track

but I am not too sure about line 1/2 so someone please feel free to correct me if I am wrong

[vale inlet]

I just introduced myself to the world of WEC, and I wondered how it would be if F1 had a system like LMP1 where only manufacturer teams can run hybrids. But not exactly the same way where they take away the hybrid systems.
I was wondering what would happen if privateer teams were given some sort of a handicap to essentially divide the performance levels or to create a gap.

[rich gust]

Wait only manufacturers were allowed hybrids?

[tame raft]

no no

this is in WEC

not in F1

[soft shadow]

I just wanna say... this will kill half if the grid instead...

[short ether]

if done like WEC has done atm, yes it would

[spiral gyro]

duh

[little veldt]

F1 is meant to be the pinnacle of racing, it will never have a large amount of teams because these are the fastest cars going around circuits. I don’t get why you want to make it super dumbed down and cheaper. If you want to see that Indycar exists, watch spec series’. I mean F2 and F3 have close racing but not many people watch it because they aren’t super fast like F1

[rich gust]

Probably a dumb qn

But how accurate are the rev counters on f1 cars

Like what’s the margin of error that the flashing lights have

[spiral gyro]

Very low chances

Very very low of it having a error

[rancid ruin]

ppls no

[paper wing]

Congrats @rancid ruin, you're now on lap 5

[reef pine]

Again, this is the serious channel

[spiral gyro]

Very very very serious

[short ether]

What is this part of a circuit called?

a chicane?

or an escape road

thanks

[queen anchor]

car is in the escape road, the chicane is the portion of the track that goes around it. I prefer the term bus stop. Nascar in the US calls the one at watkins glen an interloop

[abstract pawn]

https://twitter.com/EngineMode11/status/1439989653847908358?s=20

Engine 11 Position 5 (@EngineMode11)

Want to work for an F1 team but don’t really know much about aero, geometry or tensile strength?

Are you good at telling people to turn things off and on again?

Well Now’s your chance!

https://t.co/4NOgVr2ZHN

Twitter · Sep 20, 2021, 4:27 PM

[haughty radish]

ok

[spiral gyro]

It’s an Escape Road it is used especially when cars lockup and run wide the run off is very useful plus let’s say there is an incident in t1 right after Lights our cars can use the escape road.

[short ether]

Thanks

[spiral gyro]

[tulip isle]

Or if your brakes are not working properly

[thick jacinth]

oooofies i defo can't apply

[paper wing]

Congrats @thick jacinth, you're now on lap 5

[thick jacinth]

damn

i got a question, how do you decide if a certain car get's drs or not?

[soft shadow]

A driver can only get DRS through DRS zones and if they are behind another car by a second or less

[thick jacinth]

ahhh thanks for explaining man

and

ers is available at all times?

[soft shadow]

Depending on the mapping

[thick jacinth]

?

[soft shadow]

Sometimes, drivers just dump the ERS and only recharge it at cooldown laps, but that's in quali...

[thick jacinth]

ohhhhh

[soft shadow]

ERS is 50/50... half from the MGU-K aka the brakes, half from the heat coming from the engine aka the MGU-H

[thick jacinth]

ok

[spiral gyro]

The usage of Ers is down to the teams and drivers when they want to use it, it is mostly used for overtaking and for Hot-laps ofc you might’ve heard engineers telling their drivers to do a recharge lap during qualifying that means they can harvest all that energy so they can go for a hot-lap the next lap

[thick jacinth]

oohhhh that makes it much clearer

thanks

:)

[spiral gyro]

Here’s a very good example of drivers in recharge mode after a hot-lap

[rich gust]

Dumb qn but

Are the wheel rims designed to be spec

Like would it be possible for a McLaren wheel to be put into another teams car

And vice verse

[short ether]

rim suppliers in 2020

[rich gust]

Just thought of that since I remembered the pit box mix up that happened a while back

[short ether]

now, i suppose they could use another rim since the width of the wheel is the same?

that's not a dumb question actually, never wondered.

[rich gust]

I’m just thinking that the wheel nut wouldn’t match

But I don’t know if that’s spec too

[reef pine]

that is interesting, OZ has most of the large teams

Incidentally all of the manufacturers

[soft shadow]

I never thought Enkei is still part of the Rim games in F1

But Aston running BBS.... Really interesting....

[abstract pawn]

Idk why they would use BBS when Mercedes used OZ and the Racing Point was literally a Mercedes

Idk how that would work

[soft shadow]

There's not much of difference in the wheel design of BBS and OZ anyway

[granite tundra]

This is off the top of my head

Wheels are prescribed design components

[feral vessel]

How much time did OZ supply Ferrari wheel rims ?

[granite tundra]

So their specification is detailed by the fia, but the actual manufacturing and distribution of them is down to the teams

[short ether]

2012 from what i can see

they used BBS before that

[feral vessel]

ah, so it looks like McLaren has spent time most with Enkei Wheel Rims.

[feral vessel]

Do F1 teams choose the wheel rim design by themselves ?

[spiral gyro]

Yes

[hazy tulip]

car go fast

why

[spiral gyro]

Cuz f1

[granite tundra]

I WAS WRONG

NO

wheel rims aren't PDC, they're FSC/H (TRC)

so design and distribution is free

and for a couple of years at the beginning, haas were the only ones who actually manufactured their own rims

[edgy anchor]

The wheel rims all have the same display and such because since 2008 they've had a spec ECU and electronics from McLaren

They will lijely read the same thing but maybe button allocations and quick releases might be incompatible

[short ether]

are you talking about the steering wheels?

[spiral gyro]

Bit confused

Probably meant the steering wheel

[granite tundra]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

nice one skippy

[rich gust]

I said wheels

like

[edgy anchor]

Oooooh

[rich gust]

just wondering if you'd be able to put these on any car

[spiral gyro]

Don’t think so

[feral vessel]

Those are the wheel rims that Mercedes managed designed to manage tyre temperatures that Ferrari protested against.

(2018)

[abstract pawn]

Ferrari PU

[pliant parrot]

hi guys im working on a math project about how the thickness of a rear wing aerofoil affects the downforce generated, does anyone have the dimension of RB16B rear wing?

[zenith pumice]

By rear wing do you mean the entire assembly or just the wing

Do you also want the height of it attached to the car

(Ie, height of the rear wing off the ground)

[pliant parrot]

if no, then is there a average rear wing dimension used for this 2021 season or it can be 2020 season too, im mainly focusing on monaco grand prix as the track needs a high down force to turn sharp through the corners and there are less straights. Some teams cant offord to change wings so I am mainly focusing on red bull and mercedes.

Answer to Oreodaphne: Only the rear wing, height of it attached to the car.

[zenith pumice]

So you want the height of the rear wing off the ground too

[pliant parrot]

nvm i mean just the rear wing structure height from the Chassis not like off the ground

[zenith pumice]

See because I’m going to use a scale to find the value of it from a 1:43 model car since that data isn’t publicly available

And I need to know what measurements you want

Okay so let me go measure

1:43 scale model shows:
Height of 0.9cm (x43 = 38.7cm)
Width of 1cm (x43 = 43cm)
Length of 2.4cm (x43 = 103.2cm)

Final dimensions:
Height of 38.7cm
Width of 43cm
Length of 103.2cm

[pliant parrot]

thanks!!

[zenith pumice]

Granted it’s not 100% accurate but it’s the best I think you’ll find

[pliant parrot]

ye i didnt know like how to measure it from the model cause i havent learnt it yet in highschool (probably wont teach it), thanks again 🙂

[zenith pumice]

no issues

good luck with your project

[pliant parrot]

can i come back again if i have any questions?

[zenith pumice]

yes of course :D

[granite tundra]

hi uh

you want the dimension of the airfoil itself? so stuff like camber, chord etc.?

you can't just plug in height/width/length and get any useful airfoil data (sorry johann :P)

you also need to be more specific- what element of the rear wing are you modelling? if you're not looking at the main element then you have additional considerations like having a significant AoA to build into your baseline

try finding something you like the look of on airfoiltools- you get given geometries as a .csv that you can plug into a CAD or CFD program

probably go NACA.. 23012 is a decent starting point for motorsport, although it won't be as cambered as something like an f1 rear wing- the principle is the same though
http://airfoiltools.com/airfoil/details?airfoil=naca23012-il

there's also lots of info on airfoil thickness vs. cl

but i'd recommend building a profile of NACA airfoils- with 4 digit airfoils (i.e. 0016), the last 2 digits give thickness, so it would be easier to get information for airfoils with different thickness but similar chord and camber

..nvm he left

[reef pine]

He came for information and then left

[wintry pollen]

bruh lmao

[spiral gyro]

[feral vessel]

Well, at least this hasn't gone fully to waste.

[edgy anchor]

When you realise you're in out of your depth?

[abstract pawn]

https://youtu.be/M0XcSQOmYhk

[little veldt]

more like a closer look at the 2014 ferrari power unit

[spiral gyro]

^

[edgy anchor]

Ques:
Thoughts on F1's useage of a CVT Gearbox?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/L7Obvtq-K9Rsc7FBtLkrEt3v_5OSrYB5U2-emZa-MymlKxzTx44L4wfEvx9aK5Q1FyLL_Y1Byu9n7lKuF7nMOsJST2A

[spiral gyro]

its cool

but i personally dont want it

i believe a williams had a cvt gearbox

[edgy anchor]

Yeah that's the FW15C's CVT

I would like to see it used but... Only really on Ovals

[spiral gyro]

in ovals? would be cool

[edgy anchor]

Yeah where you only need that very top end

[short ether]

Thanks Jo, very cool

[feral vessel]

If i recall correctly Williams' engineer discovered that it was quicker with a CVT gearbox than a conventional one, but I think this would have been a lot more expensive than a conventional gearbox because of component wear.

though I'm curious how this kind of gearbox would work around tracks like Monaco.

and I agree on the point it would work better in Ovals

[short ether]

why better on ovals than on tracks where Monaco

Aren’t CVTs banned?

they disallowed them before they could arrive in the sports ye

[edgy anchor]

Because on SuperSpeedways you don't really have the stigma against lack of shifts

[feral vessel]

because a CVT would have absolutely blown contemporary sequentials out of the water specially in lower speed, technical tracks.
and Monaco is a technical track with low speed corners

also what Skippy said

[short ether]

the stigma against lack of shifts
the stigma?

[edgy anchor]

For example, CVT's when introduced to road cars had put pseudo-shifts in them because people whined that the rpm was the same

I'd be afraid the same would apply to racing in Road course form

Whereas at Superspeedways, you already want to have that top speed regardless

And getting rid of 2 or 3 gears at very similar Rpm ranges to just one variance?

[short ether]

Nah racing drivers aren't your average Joe, they won't complain about that. But the speed indicator would need rethinking i suppose

[edgy anchor]

I'm not thinking about drivers, moreso fans

[short ether]

meh, what matters is the racing, not the sound of the cars

[edgy anchor]

[tame raft]

does anyone know how to build a wind tunnel at home ?

[short ether]

i'm afraid there's nothing on that topic on wikihow

[tame raft]

xdd\

[reef pine]

Denford makes a "windtunnel" of sorts

for F1S size models

Though I would question the accuracy of the data you would get from it.

You would be much much better of going with CFD

[edgy anchor]

Build a venturi tunnel out of paper and stick two PC fans on each end

It wouldn't do much but it's... It is one...

[mystic warren]

@lament drift

[calm valley]

tech

[sleek trail]

How do F2 cars compare with Indycar

Like are they faster, similarly paced or slower?

[spiral gyro]

They are pretty close

But I’d say the indycar would beat it

Will have to see the data only then I can say for sure

[limber sluice]

depends where u take it

an indy car set-up for indy would be a horrid driving experience at monaco

i mean u prolly wont be able to get it around it one piece

[short ether]

On a road course.

[edgy anchor]

On a road course, IndyCars are faster because they have more power and generally... Yeah

[limber sluice]

they'll eat the f2 cars on a straight yeah

for breakfast

[edgy anchor]

They're a bit heavier that being said

And of course on Ovals there's no match

[short ether]

of course, Formula cars were never developed with ovals in mind

(ok, maybe in the 50s)

[elder plover]

Yeah, because they all looked exactly the same.

[tame raft]

its better to visualize things when you actually see them, on the screen its kind of sketchy

[reef pine]

Depends on if you want actual data or if you want a visualisation

[tame raft]

yeah

[reef pine]

He definitely will not have access to a perfectly calibrated Low speed windtunnel (I am assuming)

and if he wants proper data, then CFD would be better

[tame raft]

(im the guy btw)

xd

[reef pine]

Oh wait shit

I forgot who wrote the question

kek

[tame raft]

haha

[reef pine]

Yeah, so do you have access to a low speed windtunnel

[tame raft]

no

[reef pine]

exactly

And what do you want, visualisation of the airflow or data

[tame raft]

i want the visualisation

also i can get a bit of data like downforce i saw a guy doing some wind tunnel with weight sensor

[granite tundra]

visualisation of what exactly? just things that you have lying about the house?

[tame raft]

no, 3d printed aero models

[granite tundra]

tbh if you're purely looking at doing this to get results, it would make more sense to buy a desktop tunnel

[timid mulch]

but didnt the god williams in the 90's have one?

[short ether]

they couldn't make a racing car with it

because it was forbidden before they would

[feral vessel]

they could only make a test with it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3UpBKXMRto

[edgy anchor]

I wonder what the rev range would be? Would it just be varying between peak torque and peak power or even further?

[short ether]

i suppose they'd go peak torque at low speeds and peak power otherwise

[true tiger]

hey

[true tiger]

ive not gone into the detail of the technical side of f1 but would love to learn more about it

[edgy anchor]

What about?

[true tiger]

aerodynamics and the complex suspension system

[short ether]

you'll have to ask specific questions 😉

[edgy anchor]

One might even say complex questions

[livid cedar]

Have F1 cars always had single-nut wheels?

[edgy anchor]

I... Yes

GP cars of the 30's even had those single lug knock on nuts

[spiral gyro]

^^

[blissful sonnet]

Bit of a strange question, (Only know probably an average level of the technical side) if you have a car with a high level of downforce but low mechanical grip would this cause understeer/lower the benefit of the downforce?

I guess it is somewhat equivalent to running wet tires on an F1 car in the dry?

[livid cedar]

When it comes to rewards for constructors, is it purely based on their position in the constructors championship? If a team wins both championships, do they get more? In other words, do driver standings matter to teams reward wise, or it's just for prestige and attracting sponsors?

[harsh plover]

in a very simplified nutshell, yes

there are (as with everything in life) more specific details, but that is the correct concept

[harsh plover]

im not 100% sure, but i think for constructors, it is based on their position in the WCC. if a team wins both championships, i doubt they will get more from the FIA (or however teams are payed apart from sponsors) but they will get attention from sponsors which is a big +

[short ether]

So 2022 engines won't have mgu-k?

I don't know if thats true

[crimson granite]

2026 engines

[short ether]

oh

Time to wait

[spiral gyro]

It’s the constructers which matters more

[crimson granite]

yes the money comes from the teams constructors standings

[short ether]

Kind of.

[short ether]

The car has to find the perfect balance between both, and adding more downforce to a car with low mech. Grip is sometimes a remedy

Because mechanical grip is also traction to what I know about it

Too

[steel lily]

I believe they won't have the MGU-H.

[spiral gyro]

they will have the mgu-k

not the mgu-h

[steel lily]

yes

[ember fossil]

Sorry about the link earlier, I misunderstood what can and cannot be shared. 👍

[fervent timber]

Like us 😭

[edgy anchor]

They won't have the MGU-H, which is that batty that harvests energy off of the turbo. The K is what takes from the brakes and is like a hefty alternator

[short ether]

Heh?

MGU-H

[edgy anchor]

Yeah, the Motor Generator Unit - Heat

[short ether]

I know what's that

I was just testing the reaction

MGU-K

Ah,okay

[fervent timber]

An admin we used to have was called mgu-h

[karmic lynx]

I thought it was 2026 engines

[steel lily]

That is correct, they will be removed from 2026 onward

[ember fossil]

Hybrid system power will increase to 350kW 🤯

[edgy anchor]

I personally think that'll reduce a touch

Maybe to 300kw

[calm valley]

Opinions on the aerodynamics of late 70's and early 80's cars?

[edgy anchor]

Ground effect cars were gorgeous, albeit stubby at the front

Obviously now people could do wayyyy better, for example how in 1981 Dan Gurney's Eagles pioneered BLAT in Motorsport for Indy which dials up the notch further

[short ether]

BLAT?

[edgy anchor]

Boundary Layer Adhesion technolog6

https://i.ibb.co/bdr9q1S/Pepsi-vortex.png

If you make a skirt which is angled, or nowadays the cheese grater floors, it makes a vortex which seals the floor despite no physical contact

And the BLAT Eagles were incredibly quick

https://tianyizf1.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/delta-wing-vortex.png

This is what they went further on with the Deltawing

[short ether]

ok 😄

feel like Dan Gurney is quite underrated to his contributions to motorsports

[edgy anchor]

Bro Dan Gurney was a monster as an owner

[violet smelt]

https://twitter.com/Vetteleclerc/status/1445290465973215235?s=20

tami. (@Vetteleclerc)

#AMuS Mercedes had noticed some weaknesses in its engines over the course of the season as they get older. And a higher loss of power than in previous years. That's why it's not an option for Hamilton to do the final races with just his remaining two power units.

#F1

Likes

375

Twitter · Oct 5, 2021, 7:31 AM

[short ether]

Wowo

[dire owl]

https://tenor.com/view/the-finger-goofy-person-above-me-finn-finn-above-gif-14403914

[crimson granite]

sigh...

[short ether]

Explain why

Imean it is not like the car are not getting faster

right

[edgy anchor]

Wdym explain why?

That's what they said

[wise stratus]

,

[short ether]

Lol

[zenith pumice]

because they’re removing the MGU-H and need some compensation from it

[zenith pumice]

no… the cars are getting slower

like that’s pretty established with the 2022 regs

[edgy anchor]

They're getting slower/heavier but people are saying that there's potential for even more power than we have now

[rich gust]

If we gave Engineers the 1950 F1 car regs
What could they possibly make?

[zenith pumice]

quite a bit more than what we can imagine

[short ether]

you can't imagine what they would come up with

1950 regs is just 4.5L NA or 1.5L supercharged. but i suppose turbocharged is allowed as a consequence

[edgy anchor]

If engineers now had 1950 F1 car regulations, you'd essentially be giving them no rulebook at all

Also Supercharged meant Forced Induction as a whole

It wasn't until the Turbo revolution in motorsport that they weren't just TurboSuperChargers

[steel lily]

yeah

imagine the power engineers would get out of those

and the tyres would be amazing

same with the aero

[edgy anchor]

Bro you essentially would have the progression had 1983 not stinted things

Like 4.5L... Insanely tunneled, active aero beasts

Or... Well do we go for 1.5L Supo or 3.0L supos?

[steel lily]

the tyres alone would be absolutely amazing

[frozen tinsel]

can’t wait for the era when the cars have to make 6 pit stops per race

[main ermine]

And hamilton has to make 1

[dark trench]

ig i should ask this here but do we know if the 2022 cars have drs or not?

[short ether]

they will

[edgy anchor]

Just a quick back to 1950 regs... You'd essentially have Cyber Formula

They actually... I don't think there was any other regs bar saying it was open-cockpit, and had engine size limits

[nocturne dock]

they will but wont be used in the way they have been for the past 10 years

[short ether]

why not? i mean how is drs gonna be used?

[edgy anchor]

They want to test it and eventually 0hase it out

Because DRS is... Well... A gimmick, or a stop gap to band aid a stab wound

[short ether]

yes. i hope these new regs allow them to remove the DRS

[edgy anchor]

I would personally prefer either full active wing elements or none at all

[short ether]

i'd prefer none at all, to keep with the (probably) singlemost important rule of the regulations since the late 60s

[edgy anchor]

Well exactly

Thqt kind of thing, and of course I'm a broken record with this... It needs to be all or nothing

To have DRS "zones" Imo not only kinda beans the setup because you can cater more to cornering and not fully focus on the balance, but also any overtake done kinda doesn't mean as much

[short ether]

but also any overtake done kinda doesn't mean as much
that's a broken record opinion i can get alongside with

like in Italy, the DRS is almost useless since all cars run low drag setups, so the overtakings were difficult

[edgy anchor]

It's also like... Wow you pressed a button and the button worked

Not wow you overcame the awareness of the driver

It's not like push-to-pass or whatever where you have it, they have it, use it desparigingly because only so much can be used but it can be used anywhere

[untold maple]

Kinda a dumb question but can anyone explain the wheel and tyre mounting and how the breaks fit into it. Cause all I see is a cylinder with the brake air intake and I have no idea how it all works

Like how do the tyres s🅱️in?

And where are the brake discs?

The suspension and mounting to the car I get

It’s just the actual mount I have no clue how it works

[edgy anchor]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a4/9d/5a/a49d5a4d7e2729b1b6aa4d1125daf643.jpg

Here's it without the brake disc

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/6nKlJXO0/s8/f1-chinese-gp-2017-mercedes-amg-f1-w08-front-brake-and-wheel-hub-detail.jpg

Here is it with

https://images.ctfassets.net/q2hzfkp3j57e/4K9DQt9N49XRgvUcSO1esZ/0913259551d478038e973e74e362aed0/article-high-precision-cnc-machining-formula-sae-race-car-image-4.png

[untold maple]

Ah okay

I understand it better now

Thanks

[limber sluice]

how are both cars said to equipped with double T wings?

and this

the two 'bars' holding the wing in mcl35 refers to the double T?
but the T shape with double flap is a T wing as well?

pls tag me if u know, thanks!

[zenith pumice]

these I assume

[short ether]

the attention to detail is pretty cool in F1

[vernal crown]

what is this?

[short ether]

sensors

to check if the air does what it is supposed to be, proper speed etc

[little veldt]

How the airflow is on the rear, sometimes they’ll use paint to see where it goes. Only happens cause you don’t wanna waste all your wind tunnel time

[edgy anchor]

That right there's an aero rake
It'll have a ton of pitotubes in a grid that'll measure air speed and pressure off the back of the car to see hos well it matches the cfd/tunnel model

[limber sluice]

Oh jeez ty

[limber sluice]

The Aero rake above has very less contact with free air tho

So is it for messing around the diffuser?

[zenith pumice]

it's meant to see how the air flows around the car

[limber sluice]

Ah I meant specifically that Aero rake

Above

[edgy anchor]

It's meant to see how air exits the diffuser

Whether it's stalling or not

[limber sluice]

Yeah that's what I was thinking

[zenith pumice]

ah then yes

[limber sluice]

Cool tyty

[edgy anchor]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/2GDdbqrY/s8/renault-re40-blown-diffuser-1.jpg

https://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/dscn0434.jpg

Have when Renault tried Blown Diffusers in the 80's

[jagged rose]

What is the air box for? Is kind of like the brake ducts where the faster you go=better engine cooling, or is there a different purpose for it?

[zenith pumice]

the engine needs oxygen for combustion

it gets that oxygen from the airbox

[jagged rose]

Oh so not cooling?

[zenith pumice]

it's an air intake

[edgy anchor]

The airbox used to be only for intake air. Because it's a sealed box, it means no air can escape and effectively raises the pressure of the air getting to the intake trumpets in what's known as the ram effect. While still used for intake air, the reason why you see the diff channels is for stuff like oil cooling and whatnot

But yes, the faster you go... More air, good

[zenith pumice]

faster you go = more pressure = more power

iirc that's how it works

[edgy anchor]

Hence why in F1 from mid-1994 to early-1995 they made teams put holes in the airbox

[odd dagger]

Casper shouting "THATS HOW IT WORKS!" in braking point

[short ether]

22 regs if the rim sizes stayed and no halo

[edgy anchor]

Ooooh

That's gorgeous

Maybe not the wheels entirely b7t

[proven spade]

Oh wow

That looks amazing

[bold leaf]

Amazing but rims aren't my fav

[frank surge]

wheels too thicc

[feral shell]

Just like my .........head

[short ether]

Looks better in black than it does in red

[zenith pumice]

not gonna lie, the halo completes the car

[short ether]

yeah

[edgy anchor]

I still disagree oof

[trail bolt]

Halo is here to stay

And we are all better off for that

[leaden hare]

imagine still hating on the halo in 2021

[green ether]

Halo saved Grosjean from being decapitated and Hamilton in Monza

If you hate the halo I'm sending you to Tibet

[leaden hare]

tibet? why tibet lol

[green ether]

So they can be far away from society

[crimson granite]

i think they're talking about it aesthetically

not safety wise

[leaden hare]

even then it looks alright

[green ether]

It doesn't even look that bad aesthetically tbh

I like it more than no halo, honestly

[steel lily]

Well looks are subjective aren't they?

[crimson granite]

and its reference to this

[green ether]

It's still stupid to hate the halo over aesthetics

[crimson granite]

they dont hate the Halo

[steel lily]

But they were not hating it

[steel lily]

They were disagreeing with someone that was saying it completed the 2022 car

[green ether]

Oh I didn't look up

Just thought it was a general comment

[steel lily]

Context is important

[zenith pumice]

I think that’s really subjective to the car

you wouldn’t like an f2004 with a halo now would you

or an mp4/4 for that matter

there’s a reason for that: modern cars are really wide and quite rear-heavy in terms of silhouette (huge airbox, big wing, etc)

so it needs something facing forward to complete/balance it out, which is now the halo

but it really only works on 2017 < cars

[edgy anchor]

Who said I hated it?

[zenith pumice]

some people don’t like the aesthetic of the halo, and that’s okay

[edgy anchor]

Like it's not stupid to say something looks sucky even if you understand that said thing is a lifesaver

[zenith pumice]

definitely not, in fact sometimes I look back at old cars and think “god damn pre-halo looks were fire”

but like I said, that depends heavily on the car

I hate the 2017 cars because they look like 2018 cars without halos, and that just looks off to me

[edgy anchor]

Like 1982 cars look sick but you have no feet with one bump of those

I like the single centre post with a windscreen/aeroscreen about the height of the top of the visor

[fallow flame]

What's the little purple light on top of the intake for? I think it only turns on for pitstops.

[edgy anchor]

They turn that pink, yellow and green, and I believe red too

I believe it's a small light to denote the state of the ERS system

[fallow flame]

Ah ok, makes sense. Thanks

[raw nest]

Purple is the pit limiter

Not exactly the pit limiter but you can see when they turn the limiter on it goes purple and on pit exit when they turn it off it goes green. It is the ERS state though

[bleak estuary]

Found this
https://youtu.be/TY3_2jUEVfE

[short ether]

my god wtf1 videos explain the obvious

[edgy anchor]

If you didn't know... If you don't wear them massively, they aren't worn massively when most are

[zenith pumice]

not to mention, they barely lasted 58 laps

[edgy anchor]

https://youtube.com/shorts/mcx3rPZEGZ4?feature=share

Without the nose behemoth ay

[celest cypress]

i just read some news

i found out the FIA wanna remove drs in 2022

[cursive wraith]

Brown said it’s a good idea to keep drs for 2022

[nocturne dock]

i thought drs will stay just not used in the way it was before

[edgy anchor]

It'll stay but the idea is to phase it our

Because DRS is the equivalent of sticking a Plaster on road rash

[zenith pumice]

good

I feel DRS takes away from the overtake

you don’t have to fight for it as much, just press a button or pull a lever and you’ve got extra speed to the car ahead… it’s gonna be much easier to pass

now obviously I understand why DRS happened, there’s a lot of dirty air these cars produce and slipstreaming can get affected to a pretty high degree, but with regulations like 2022 which phase out this issue I think DRS should go with it too

[edgy anchor]

It's like... Cheap Push to Pass

[nocturne dock]

2017 just made the dirty air situation 20x worse

[proven spade]

im pretty sure the '22 regs cut out a lot of the dirty air

they should do a season of no drs

just as a trial type thing

[edgy anchor]

I still find it bothersome they're into Outwash tho

2017 did make the situation way worse but it doesn't mean that that footprint is inherently so

[proven spade]

ig thats just the sacrifice that has to be made if you want a quicker car

[uncut sonnet]

I think the FIA just went : “you know what, just make the car fast then we’ll think about it in the following years”

[proven spade]

i mean the cars do look a lot better

and i wouldnt say quality of racing has gone down from the 2017 reg changes

[uncut sonnet]

Mmmh imo the 2015-2016 cars looked very good

Apart from the rear wing

[proven spade]

the front wing was naf

[uncut sonnet]

If they used a skewed back design similarly to the 17 regs it would have looked awesome

[proven spade]

wdym

[uncut sonnet]

Yeah i agree, especially cause the reg changes shuffled the grid a little

[uncut sonnet]

?

[proven spade]

wdym

[uncut sonnet]

The rear wing of the 2017 onwards cars

It’s different from 2016 and prior

[proven spade]

with the the rest of the 2015/6 car?

hmmm

i just prefer the overall look of current cars

[uncut sonnet]

I mean not exactly the same size and stuff

[proven spade]

i mean yes they are much much wider

[uncut sonnet]

On that i can agree

[proven spade]

they look lower and sleeker too

[uncut sonnet]

But i still liked the 2015 and 16 regs

[proven spade]

fair enough

[uncut sonnet]

The 70s cars were probably the best looking

So w i d e

[proven spade]

the mclaren mp4/3 tho

back to something technical

can anyone explain to me how a sequential transmission works

[uncut sonnet]

Man it’s 00.00 my brain ain’t working anymore for that sorry

[merry mango]

New 2022 restrictions finna be interesting

[light laurel]

Agreed

[tardy dirge]

They will be hella interesting

[swift wing]

A sequential gearbox is similar to a manual transmission, but it’s a bit different. In a car with a manual transmission, you shift the car through the gears in an “H” pattern. The top left position is first, and then you move straight down to second. To get to third, you shift up, to the right and up again. Fourth gear is straight down from third. In a vehicle with a sequential gearbox, you just hit a lever or a paddle to click through each of the gears in order, whether you are up-shifting or down-shifting.

[merry mango]

Interesting stuff

[light laurel]

Haas

[swift wing]

A bit different but good I reckon

[edgy anchor]

https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/inside-a-formula-1-car-transmission_100690594_h.jpg

The sequential gearbox works via one barrel which has grooves in it...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/C5VP_RjNiNCxWa9XBHchldu9qkE7c3SYz0cPJnIJDMJMjKYEh7_DbOkPPEH0BCJPVD_3CYW0tHEMVjchWAwjWAJP9y_idR-SlVfmVaSDayuApt6U6QBiSISRHEA

The grooves move the forks which engage each set of dog teeth to the output shaft

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Gearbox_4gears_sequential.gif

Instead of having the separate engagements of the manual, the single barrel does said work

Because it's so quick using Hydraulic pressure, it doesn't usually necessitate the use of clutch work, hence the typical useage without Synchromeshes

Also for newer ones they'll resort to two barrels, not just one, in order to break any disemgagement time that could result in loss of drive and therefore speed

[true pendant]

why do F1 cars have a clutch for the start, but through out the race dont use it?

[left quest]

"Formula One clutches and gears are electrohydraulically actuated, so after going from a standstill/stationary into 1st gear, the driver won’t need to use the clutch again, as it’s electrohydraulically controlled by the electronic sensors and actuators connected to the transmission computer, or TCU."

not sure if its accurate but found it online

[true pendant]

okay thanks makes sense, in short to start from standstill needs driver input

[proven spade]

okay right thanks

so basically because it uses hydraulic pressure instead of clutchwork it is quicker

right?

[edgy anchor]

Yes, since seamless shift was introduced by Honda in the 2000's, clutchwork is basically non existent unless when the car is going slow

[short ether]

you said they use 2 barrels, each barrel has exactly the same pins? ot there's one for 1-2. one for 3-4

[edgy anchor]

So I think it works along the same lines as a double clutch, like how one disengages at the same time as the other engages the next

So the gears them selves might be positioned in order of 1 3 2 4 5 7 6 8

[short ether]

ah ok, makes sense 🙂

[true pendant]

The ICE lewis put in his car is it the same clone as the one removed or is this one upgrades in performance?

[toxic moth]

Were the teams running an asymmetrical setup for turkey? Asking because of the asymmetrical vortices produced from the rear wing, could see that especially on the AlphaTauri. How does it help them?

[south token]

f1 car go vroooooooooom

[zenith pumice]

can you send a photo/video

[spark harness]

How does the driver engage reverse?

[toxic moth]

https://youtu.be/lBvpFfIKzDc

Significantly visible on the left side of the rear wing but not so much on the right

Same with Stroll's Aston Martin

[zenith pumice]

I think that’s just because they’re turning

but I don’t know fully so someone please correct me if I’m wrong

but I think that’s just because they’re turning to the left

[toxic moth]

Also, look at the camber of the wheels.

Could just be an illusion from the TV feed, but that's what it looks like.

[zenith pumice]

what about the camber

[toxic moth]

It looks asymmetrical is what I'm saying. I want to know how it really helps the car and what kind of handling does the driver expect.

[zenith pumice]

I don’t think they’d intentionally do asymmetrical camber

[toxic moth]

It was the case in Monza as well. AlphaTauri ran an asymmetrical aero setup (including different wheel cambers)

[zenith pumice]

that would affect the car’s handling (one wheel would grip less than the other)

[zenith pumice]

huh, that’s a bit weird

[toxic moth]

from Monza

[zenith pumice]

no… that’s an artefact of the tv angle

from the front they’d do the same camber, it would make no sense to do different chambers (especially around Monza)

Monza is mostly straight, an imbalanced camber angle would make the car unstable

also if you set up the left wheel to have more camber than the right wheel, the cars will be very unstable in right turns

[toxic moth]

I initially thought that too. I delved into the comments of the post I found that image from (https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/comments/plwxsr/asymmetrical_camber_alpha_tauri_monza/) and it turns out they do it, but I failed to find an explanation as to how it affects the driving

[zenith pumice]

well yes it’s not uncommon

but the extremity is different

now what I was saying is if the car was perfectly stable then different cambers would be weird

I guess optimising the cars for left or right turns by making the other wheel less grippy is fine

[toxic moth]

I see.

[cursive wraith]

Nico once said that cambers were changed massively to suit left hand corners in Monaco or smth like that

[toxic moth]

https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=28574

Alain Prost used to use different tire compounds on different wheels 🤔

[leaden hare]

u just learnt about that

most drivers use to do that

[toxic moth]

Indeed I did

[short ether]

I hope someday this is possible again

[true saffron]

I hope the mandatory pit stop gets taken away.

[toxic moth]

That would make "nooo my rear is right graining" a thing of the past, wonder if that makes it more interesting.

[short ether]

Also that. It's another gimmick to try and make the show better, but it's artificial

[zenith pumice]

yeah in general (and even I didn’t know about this, so thanks) the camber angle is a compromise between straight line speed and handling. Too much negative camber (the type that f1 cars have) will cause detriments to straight line speed and to handling, but the just the right amount of camber for the turn will mean that the tyre then straightens itself out when you turn into the corner, allowing better grip and hence faster laps

if a car is inherently imbalanced in a turn (one side grips the other doesn’t) then you can change the chambers to help with that, and obviously if there’s a circuit which is mostly right handers, you would have less camber on the right tyre since that’s not the one under pressure a lot of the time, and instead when you turn the car gets pushed more outwards to the left, which means that the left will grip (because it’ll straighten itself out) and you can accelerate

I might be getting things mixed up so anyone with more technical knowledge on this please correct me if I’m wrong

[true saffron]

I mean strategy could be more interesting.
Like do I go with the slower tyre and not pit or with the faster tyre and pit.

[toxic moth]

Thanks for the write up 🙂 Definitely makes a lot of sense.

[zenith pumice]

yeah thanks for telling me about this topic

very interesting

[zenith pumice]

thought this would introduce some problem wouldn’t it? the other tyres degrade faster and then you’re left with a really grippy tyre with no others left, maybe imbalance issues

[toxic moth]

do they run different setup for clockwise and anticlockwise tracks too? i feel like i read that somewhere, attributed to nico rosberg [citation needed].

[zenith pumice]

but also if your car is really bad with rear management on a track, you could do hards on the rear + mediums on the front for example

and then pit when the mediums go off

[leaden hare]

full wets at the back and softs at the front

[zenith pumice]

probably do

there’s many factors in set up

general wind direction, degree of the turns, elevation changes, surface, etc these are all dependant on the track

[toxic moth]

https://www.f1technical.net/features/21555

[toxic moth]

Looks like it's different for different cars.
In the W12, its by long pressing the neutral button.

Source: https://www.carthrottle.com/post/why-is-it-so-difficult-for-a-formula-1-car-to-reverse/

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/878255051260792832

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

F1 car's reverse gear, a small gear (purple) with a special tooth pattern is pushed into engagement by a hydraulic actuator.

Likes

105

Twitter · Jun 23, 2017, 2:14 PM

[toxic moth]

does anyone know what this part of the front wing is called?

[past blade]

its a tyre sensor

[celest cypress]

aka Lewis's screaming device

[edgy anchor]

That's a Tyre sensor?

I thought it was airspeed

[past blade]

idk its some kind of measurement thing lol

I thought it was tyre because it makes sense to have something facing back measuring tempreature thats directly infront

[crimson granite]

Yea those are thermal cameras iirc

For measuring the tyre temps

[toxic moth]

Does this not affect the aero much

[fallen tulip]

probably not enough to outweigh the benefits

[zenith pumice]

doesn’t look like it does

they probably work around it anyways

[limber sluice]

everyone needs it. i am guessing they will have it where it affects the aero the least

3.39 (d) in 2021 technical regs (front wing auxiliary equipment):
A fairing that contains a single tyre temperature sensor. The entire fairing and sensor
must:
i. fit in the union between two volumes, a cuboid which is 15mm wide, 60mm
long and 50mm high and a circular cylinder which has a base diameter of
30mm and a height of 60mm. The axis of the cylinder must coincide with the
major axis of the one of the 15mm x 60mm faces of the cuboid.
ii. be symmetrical about a plane which is parallel to the 50mm x 60mm faces of
the cuboid, and
iii. intersect either the profiles defined in Article 3.3.6 or the endplate defined in
Article 3.3.5. A fillet radius no greater than 5mm will be permitted along the
periphery of this intersection.

[past blade]

yes

[toxic moth]

thanks guys

[edgy anchor]

Mmm... Fillet

[toxic moth]

https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/comments/q439aa/altitude_effect_on_f1_cars/?

[short ether]

Do you have a question?

[zenith pumice]

altitude always is a matter of cooling everything down

[short ether]

Can F1 Drivers put on 2 tire compounds at once
Like Softs in-front and Mediums behind

I couldn't sleep last night thinking about it

I know that most likely the answer is that they can't

but I haven't searched the regulations yet

[urban ravine]

Don’t think so 😂

[carmine steeple]

Warp drive

[main ermine]

Max and Stroll needed the hards on the rears at Baku

[past blade]

That is a big illegal

However you can mix multiple sets of tyres in the race as long as they're yhe same compound

[main ermine]

Mixed tyre set taken literally

[limber sluice]

That'll seperate the men from the boys

Lol the teams will have a hard time getting the setup right

[edgy anchor]

That hasn't been a thing since I believe the late 1980's

It might've been a practice until 1994 but definitely banned past then

[ashen solstice]

yo