f1-technical

[short ether]

Mercedes is trying something new with aero.

[violet shard]

vocational schools arent lol. better to do mechanical engineering than motorsport engineering

[hollow atlas]

Just studying P2 telem between Nor and Pia showing Nor was using lower drag setup. Assuming no errors in mid speed, this setup looks faster and overcomes any losses via gains betwen La Source - Kemmel and Stavelot - T20 Chicane. Will be interesting to see if Piastri goes with same setup in P3.

Piasti's higher downforce setup was delivering: 0.165 in La Source, 0.100 in entry to Le Combes and 0.15 in Stavelot. Nor Gains T1-T7 were 0.100 and 0.100 in T16-T19. Piastri loosing a lot of time (aprox 0.250s) to Norris through T7-11. Also another 0.05 in the final chicane.

[hollow kettle]

Ok thanks

[tall wyvern]

If you want to be a mechanic you don’t need a degree, and if you can do a vocational mechanic course and join a lower series that works. Racing teams are always looking for more mechanics. Ignore the other guy.

[hollow kettle]

So vocational is better?

[tall wyvern]

Email a local racing team and ask them. Look at F1 job adverts to see the requirements. A degree is 100% not necessary.

[hollow kettle]

Ok thanks

[short ether]

collecting F1 Teams wheel boot screens

mercs

VCARB's

Red bulls

[short ether]

astons

[covert obsidian]

Hello I have a question about something I still don't understand. How a car gets a slipstream or dirty air?? Does it depends of the distance? Or is something else? Thank you

[bitter trellis]

Yeah it's distance. At a certain point the air settles out

[edgy anchor]

Slipstream and Dirty air are the same thing, just context dependant.
When you're behind another car, sometimes past 50m away with how strong the parts can be, that car in front has a wake like a boat as the air behind it has been tossed around by the first cars' aerodynamics and so is considered Turbulent or dirty
This affects your car if you're behind it, as this air which hasn't stopped being chaotic and moving about in random directions, because it then cannot properly flow around your aerodynamic surfaces and causes them to Stall out or separate from your bodywork
This is great in a straight line, as the car will have less drag because the air is somewhat ignoring your aerodynamics and so you'll increase top speed, which is the slipstream or drafting
In corners, this means this stalled aero is not providing you as much downforce, which means less grip, which becomes a feedback loop of trying to rely on your tyres' ability to grip when there isn't an aero load, making your tyres hotter, and making your grip even worse

[covert obsidian]

Thank you

[bleak moss]

I got a question after reading the regulations, is the 798kg weight requirement reconsidered when damage has been done to the car, because there is nothing in the TR but I assume there is some precedent in previous stewards decisions

[quiet mantle]

If you can accurately explain why your car is underweight like damage it’s usually fine because you didn’t enter an illegal car. Since Russell has had none and Mercedes can’t accurately explain why they’re underweight it’s an illegal car since lights out

Haas got moved to the back of the grid for one race because their DRS wings opened a few mm’s to wide after being checked after qualifying

[spice hemlock]

Hey guys, i got a question...

Does anyone know if any part of any current or former F1 car had or has graphene?

[west nimbus]

Not really. Production of it is so impractical. Also current materials have a lot more research and knowledge around them

[spice hemlock]

Why its impractical?

[zinc bison]

Is 798kg the minimum car weight or minimum car and driver and compensation ballast weight

[quiet mantle]

Car weight with a dry tank and driver

There are minimum driver weights for safety concerns

[eager stratus]

yup, as far as I can remember they should be at least 80 kgs at weight including all the race safety equipments they wear. They do this before they are allowed to drink a full bottle of water as we often see towards the drivers podium finishers.

[short ether]

Why hadn't mercedes changed the wheel for like 10 years?

[bitter trellis]

If you weigh less than 80KG you just add ballast

[quiet mantle]

Some drivers do, Tsunoda is tiny

[bitter trellis]

I believe most do

[edgy anchor]

the latter

Thyough car weight is coming up to 800 flat with driver minimum coming up to 82 which I think is a good change

[opaque arch]

cuz no need

[winged wing]

do you have anymore technical channel reccs like this one? i really liked his explanation

i’ve been trying to find some consistently decent ones if anyone else can suggest some as well

[short ether]

Power units?

[winged wing]

general f1 mechanics

[short ether]

Sidepods?

[zinc bison]

When was the first formation lap?

[winged wing]

mhm anything like that would be cool

[short ether]

tyres

or cooling

[winged wing]

cooling

[short ether]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBuT2YJ7VE8

[winged wing]

ty 🙏🙏

[inland cobalt]

what are these flap things for?

[craggy moon]

what flaps?

[inland cobalt]

on the halo

[merry delta]

likely some sort of airflow control from the disturbances created by the halo

only some teams do such because only some teams see a benefit to such

[median shoal]

Just to channel airflow better/control it better

[civic fern]

Degree is useful if you eventually want to move out of being a mechanic

[tall wyvern]

The answer is downwash, which increases the angle of attack of the rear of the car and thus downforce and drag

[violet shard]

f1 cars have AoA now 😭 istg their less cars and more planes

[elfin basalt]

Interesting, you'd think it wouldn't have an impact given how far away the halo is from the rear wing

[median shoal]

Always have been lmfao. Their technology in producing downforce; rear wings, front wings, etc. is the same technology in planes but upside down

[violet shard]

well as an aspiring aero engineer, at least thers 2 fields I can work in

[spring fern]

https://youtu.be/9JKKw8NsPbI

Tldw, new fia clause* centered around asymmetrical brake bias and per lap auto presets

i believe this is worth a discussion

[paper wing]

Congrats @spring fern, you're now on lap 15

[inland cobalt]

when was/is it gonna be put in place

[spring fern]

new clause added into the regulations very recently, dont know which day but ill find that

purple bit is the new clause

my questions are, how many teams were doing this, which teams did it, and what caused the clause to happen

[inland cobalt]

so basically what red bull were doing was doing the brake bias thing but having another one for lateral rather than front to back

[spring fern]

the speculation is that asymmetrical braking can reduce quite a lot of lap time

[inland cobalt]

hm

[spring fern]

in 1998, mclaren used a third pedal to affect asymmetrical bias to gain half a second or more per lap

until it was banned

[inland cobalt]

yeah

[spring fern]

the "fiddle brake"

in any case, this is a massive allegation which could be the biggest story of the year, if teams were doing it

the rumor mill is, RBR's dominance could be explained by it, but thats speculation

the way it was released suggests this could be a "interpretation of the rules" scenario

much like the mercedes DRS

[tall wyvern]

What about Mercedes DRS?

[merry delta]

as per usual

considering the fact that RBR has been falling behind the past few races (not just Checo, he's just washed), I suspect that the brake bias thing is not the case

[spring fern]

"spirit of the rules" vs. clever interpretation

[tall wyvern]

What part of Mercedes DRS are you talking about?

[spring fern]

Oh excuse me, brain fart typo, meant the DAS, dual axis steering

[wet plank]

they done banned innovation

[median shoal]

Fr banning stuff like DAS makes no sense the whole point of the sport is to be the pinnacle of motorsport and thus innovative but the second any team innovates it gets banned

[violet shard]

@deft burrow I remember ur rant about this topic a few weeks ago

[left geode]

Well,FIA has banned and changed many things in F1 history for three reasons:

• To stop a team's domination
• To unsure more safety
• To not make F1 a really highly costly championship with so many stuff to do

[gritty sun]

is anyone here a Computational Fluid Dynamics Expert? id appreciate if someone could help me out with a project on simscale. i have to simulate incomprehensible air through a CAD f1 car model

[tall wyvern]

Can you do a part of a car instead? A whole F1 car is too complex.

[vagrant badge]

Hey all. This is Fabian. I am new here. I run Formula One Fans of America - FOFA on Facebook. I posted the video about the FIA technical regs amendment done by F1Unraveled on my page. Contentious dilaog eveloving from that. Very interesting sumemr brake development (pun intended).

[gritty sun]

through the parts where incompressible air flows from

[tall wyvern]

That’s all of it. Compressibility is too computationally expensive.

[gritty sun]

im just doing CFD simulation on simscale and it runs on browser 😭

[hollow kettle]

I’m so lost what r you trying to do

[opaque arch]

Ye the paid version runs on cloud but the free one uses ur own CPU

[gritty sun]

no simscale is free on browser

[opaque arch]

I mean where the computation power comes from

[gritty sun]

ah

[opaque arch]

When u do a simulation

[gritty sun]

i just randomly applied for a co curricular related to cfd of a f1 car without knowing what it is

so im trying to figure this stuff out. it had been 2 days and today i have to simulate it and submit it

[opaque arch]

When u try OpenFoam 💀

[gritty sun]

?

[opaque arch]

Ahh too late ig

Take at least couple of hours to coverge

[gritty sun]

im gonna give it my all, i hope i get the position

at least got some learning experience

[opaque arch]

To setup a simulation u need at least 30mins if u know what ur doing so....

[gritty sun]

since im pursuing aerospace, i wanted to do activities related to f1. do you know about any?

[gritty sun]

im following a tutorial lol

[opaque arch]

Fair enough ig

[gritty sun]

.

[opaque arch]

Sim scale is too weak

And u are doing the entire car

No way u can fix up geometry on that website

[gritty sun]

yea i know, i tried importing like 2 different cad models but all of them were flawed

im cooked

[opaque arch]

They should be flawed

It's normal

[gritty sun]

☠️

i learnt what a simulation is just yesterday

[opaque arch]

When every cad model is created using complex surfacing, there should be errors

[gritty sun]

i c i c

[opaque arch]

Even with the cleanest surfacing skills

And u are doing the whole car 💀

[gritty sun]

atleast i tried

i wish there were other relevant opportunities

[opaque arch]

Is ur file stp

Or igs

Or stl

[gritty sun]

ive tried both stp and stl

[opaque arch]

Use stp

Stl doesn't have volume

[gritty sun]

the cad model was flawed and i dont know how to fix it

[gritty sun]

what volume? like in context of simulation

[opaque arch]

I don't think u can fix that on simscale. U need pre-proccesing software to fix that

[gritty sun]

yea lol. Neither do i have the skills for that nor do i have time

im cooked

[opaque arch]

Stl is a shell and has no finite volume. Edges and surfaces are usually dirtier (more errors) as they are used for 3d printing and rendering which doesn't require real life manufacturing

Whereas stp is designed to store CAD data so theoretically the surfaces and geometry should be better

[gritty sun]

oh i get it

[opaque arch]

Also stp can hold solid and surfaces which CAD programs can read and work on them

Where did u get the file from

[gritty sun]

btw do you know about any small-scale activity where CAD models are used?

[gritty sun]

grabcad

[opaque arch]

Then I assume the quality shouldn't be too bad compared to sketchfab or 9ther websites

[gritty sun]

i imported an incomplete car yesterday, it was the only one which worked

[opaque arch]

Cad files are used in literally everything, from simulations to manufacturing, basically everything that is made in modern days

[opaque arch]

Go try that one, cuz u don't need to clean the geometry

[gritty sun]

i should learn this stuff and make a non profit

[gritty sun]

but would that fulfill the purpose of a cfd simulation for incompressible air flow?

[opaque arch]

That will work

Incompressible is just a type of simulations

U still have to apply boundary conditions before u can get the results tho

CFD is not a magic button

[gritty sun]

what are boundry conditions?

[opaque arch]

Like fluid domain, velocity inlet, pressure inlet......

[gritty sun]

im a 16 year old, havent studied allat ;-;

[opaque arch]

Or I can tell u is to use incompressible and steady

For ur simulation

[gritty sun]

ok this one opened, imma try to implement the instructions from the tutorial on to this one

[opaque arch]

Don't use compressible unless u reach at least Mach 0.3

[opaque arch]

I am younger than u

[gritty sun]

i feel illiterate

what do you use CAD simulations for?

[violet shard]

same :0

[opaque arch]

dont really know - improve my designs

[gritty sun]

what do you make the designs for?

[opaque arch]

hobby ig

[gritty sun]

wow

[opaque arch]

3d printing

....

[gritty sun]

cool

[opaque arch]

i just found that intriguing

[gritty sun]

regardless of the deadline, where can i learn all of this from? i searched up on yt but there weren't any good tutorials or relevant yt channels

[opaque arch]

read this and u will know what ur doing

and then u can learn CFD

[gritty sun]

ight

[opaque arch]

this book is thick so it would take some time

u also need to know calculus

[gritty sun]

i know the basics

[opaque arch]

not enough

[gritty sun]

i aint a prodigy 💀

[opaque arch]

neither

[gritty sun]

you are

[opaque arch]

nah

i am pretty dumb

[gritty sun]

or maybe its just that this stuff is common in your environment. im trying to expose myself to STEM so that i can get into a good university

[gritty sun]

im dumber

[opaque arch]

not really - I just like maths and physics and cars

machines generally

[gritty sun]

ig i just procrastinate more

[opaque arch]

@gritty sun if u really need CFD photos of a f1 car i can give it to u

i dont mind if its urgent

[gritty sun]

thanks but i dont need them now, i wont be able to learn cfd in a few hours then simulate the entire cad model in the given time lol

but i kinda like this stuff so ill stick to it

[opaque arch]

thought this is an assignment

[gritty sun]

im in highschool 💀 . also, it was for a cocurricular opportunity

[opaque arch]

aight then, dm me if u need help

[gritty sun]

thanks alot

[lost jungle]

like differential equations? like PDEs?

[gritty sun]

yes

[opaque arch]

As simulation becomes unsteady and compressible or have mrf it would be really complicated so u need to be good at maths

[civic fern]

How the hell does a high school expect you to find the computing power to run CFD on a full F1 car, let alone the knowledge to set a sim up?

[gritty sun]

i found an opportunity online, they required a CFD expert sooo

i dont think anyone in my school even knows what CFD is

[civic fern]

Anyway the very basic process if you want to CFD something is you get a CAD model, import it to CFD software, create (or import) the “wind tunnel” so you have something to add inlet/outlet/boundary conditions to, create the “mesh” (splitting the geometry into tiny little zones which is where the fluid behavior is actually analyzed by the software when the sim runs), set up the parameters (which could be anything between button clicking on a commercial software or coding everything yourself) for your simulation, and then run it

https://youtu.be/oy7JGsjzofk?si=GrsaZ0on3Ct2Q_Ex

https://youtu.be/D1Pgob61LRU?si=4OHgwuM03TWcsSly

[gritty sun]

🫡

bro i dont have to do it anymore but i appreciate the knowledge which you have shared

[civic fern]

I just found these 2. Never watched but I know its good because I worked with the guy that made this and he never told me he made it

[tall wyvern]

That’s the beauty of being an aerodynamicist, the cfd engineers do all that work and all you do is press submit.

[marble stirrup]

Good luck! I work in the aero department for the Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 team. It sounds like you are still in school and most likely in North America? Correct me if I am wrong; I'm just trying to infer from what you have said.

While I can't assist directly with your project, I can recommend some resources and activities. For now, learning from books or online courses is very beneficial until you get to university. Most universities have Formula One or Motorsport-related activities where you can engage in engineering projects within clubs. If there isn’t an F1-related society, there is almost always something similar, such as rockets or robotics. You could also participate in competitions like Formula SAE.

Building a strong foundation in mathematics and CAD projects is crucial. Additionally, learning programming is very useful.

[lost jungle]

How long did it take for you to finish this?

[marble stirrup]

This book is an undergraduate-level text on Fluid Mechanics. Depending on your prior knowledge of the subject, it could take anywhere from several weeks to a few months to thoroughly read and understand the material, in my opinion. You would need to know basic calculus, mechanics and thermodynamics before starting.
Although I think, for most purposes, reading the whole thing is unnecessary.

[lost jungle]

Thx for the info, I just started calculus and wanted to learn about the application of it when it comes to fluid mechanics

[marble stirrup]

No worries, good luck!

[gray sonnet]

can you tell about how is it to work in f1? Is it interesting, what are the minuses for you and if its not secret if the salary is good

[marble stirrup]

Sorry, I can't give that information.

[gritty sun]

thanks for suggestions:) . Im actually from Pakistan and doing ny A levels. My subjects are Maths, Further maths, physics and computer science so maybe im getting there hopefully. I really appreciate that you shared your advice

[marble stirrup]

Oh, cool, my partner is from Pakistan. Her sister works in F1, too. She is in CFD, I just looked up her A-level choices, and they are identical to yours, aha. So you are on the right track so far :)

[gritty sun]

i feel lucky that an actual f1 employee gave me their advice 😭. I feel more motivated.

I'm actually wondering if its possible to write a F1 related research paper or make a stem project.

Im excited

[marble stirrup]

You could do an F1-related EPQ if you mean before Uni. At uni, you can do your thesis on whatever you want, usually as long as a Professor or Researcher is willing to supervise you. I know someone who did their thesis directly collaborating with an F1 team.

[gritty sun]

cool, i was talking about before uni

whats an EPQ?

[marble stirrup]

You could do an extended project qualification and tailor it to what you want.

[marble stirrup]

extended project qualification

https://universitycompare.com/advice/student/epq#:~:text=It's the equivalent of 50,can be anything you want!

[gritty sun]

i think my school has something similar to this. Internation Project Qualification by Cambridge

lets go

[marble stirrup]

I want to clarify that I don't think it will help you get into a uni and you should only do it due to actual interest

[gritty sun]

why so? universities prefer kids with research skills and published research papers

[marble stirrup]

It is complicated. It will definitely be a positive, but your A-level grades and personal statement hold almost all the weight. What country's Universities are you applying for?

[gritty sun]

5 ivys, nyu ad, 2 unis in finland and 3 local universities

NUST pakistan has a student formula team btw and its the best university in my country

[marble stirrup]

I see; in that case, I have no idea how the application process is. Maybe EPQ could help, maybe not. I mostly know about the UK system.

[marble stirrup]

awesome!

[gritty sun]

well im not sure either but majority of the students who get accepted to their dream universities always have extra cocurricular experience and they help you to avail financial and and scholarships

[marble stirrup]

definitely yes, the only reason I mentioned it is in the UK sometimes people believe they will get reduced grade offers if they have an EPQ which isn't true

as an extra curricular it's great

[gritty sun]

i see and it totally makes sense. Well, ive never heard about such a thing from my career counselor

[marble stirrup]

Likely because you aren't applying to the UK

[gritty sun]

i want to but UK is just way too expensive for studies and universities in UK rarely give good scholarships or financial aid

[marble stirrup]

Yes, I think the UK is cheaper, but there is very little financial aid.

[gritty sun]

true

[tall wyvern]

Formula student also isn’t the be-all and end-all

[quick wind]

Formula Student isn't the key factor for what sets you apart anymore in a highly competitive landscape in Motorsport.

Funnily enough, I never got asked a single question about it during my interview.

[gritty sun]

💀

[gritty sun]

what does then?

[quick wind]

You, as an individual.

Understandably perhaps qualifications for a specific role i.e. CFD / Coding / Aerodynamics etc. etc. (also at risk of being off-topic, we can continue this elsewhere)

[gritty sun]

im getting enlightenment

[paper wing]

Congrats @gritty sun, you're now on lap 5

[gritty sun]

ill surely inquire you later. This server is quite helpful in terms of knowledge

[quick wind]

I partly agree.

[lost jungle]

basic calculus as in simple derivatives,integrals and partial differential equations?

[lavish lantern]

Does bump stop only limit compression of the suspension, but puts no limits on expansion of suspension?

[violet shard]

Im an aussie :)

What resources or activities would you suggest? Also how did you get into the aero department? did you persue aeronautical engineering or another degree? and did you need prior experience to join the team or did you join straight as an undergrad?

to finally see an engineer and ask them is great :0

[opaque arch]

anyone know what are these lines thingy for

its only on the mercs

[merry delta]

assuming these are the same things, I'm pretty sure that it's just a connection panel or what not for the bottom of the halo

I just have a poorly drawn paint thing to illuminate where it's visible lol

[west nimbus]

Very cool! mind if I ask what you do exactly within aero?

[tall wyvern]

The best textbooks are:

• understanding aerodynamics, arguing from the real physics by McLean
• aerodynamics for engineering students by Houghton.

You can also install openfoam and get a feel for CFD using the tutorials from the openfoam user guide, josef nazgy and wolfdynamics.

F1 teams are as interested in your ability to work in a team as your technical ability. Group projects are a great thing to do.

The single biggest thing, though, is a placement year while you’re at uni, preferably in motorsport.

Most teams will only take people at the graduate level, unless you’ve already been in F1.

Aerospace engineering is the best degree by far for aerodynamics.

[gritty sun]

are there any basic introductry tutorials on how to do cfd simulations? or like a course or something? i just want to carry out small simulations in simscale

[gritty sun]

oh nvm i forgot you had sent some

[violet shard]

thanks

[marble stirrup]

These questions are highly dependent on what you want to do in F1, even within F1 aero.
How did I get in?: I applied, nothing complicated.
Degree? I did not do an Aero degree as my role is a little different in the aero team. As someone said above, getting an Aerospace or Aeronautical etc... degree is going to help your chances significantly. In terms of education level, around half have a Master and half have a PhD. I am sure some people have neither, but this is a very small subset of people.
Prior experience: I had none. I didn't join straight as an undergrad. As I mentioned, joining Aero for any F1 team as an undergrad is probably unlikely (excluding internships and placement years).

[marble stirrup]

I am trying not to dox myself, someone in this discord already figured out who I was before so holding back a little aha

Also, I can't give specifics for what I do beyond my job title contractually anyway.

[west nimbus]

Haha no worries mate, understood!

At some point I either want to do a 6 month contract with merc or mclaren, not too sure yet. Though merc is based literally on the same road as our other site so I'm closer to them 🤷‍♂️

[marble stirrup]

Also, I didn't give what degree I did because that will dox me too aha

[marble stirrup]

Nice, what type of work do you do?

[west nimbus]

Composites, so making carbon fibre stuff. Can probably guess where I work given we're in the same estate 😂

[marble stirrup]

Yeah I already guessed aha

[west nimbus]

😂 I want to go to thr brackley site, never been. Always stayed at our other one

A lot more f1 stuff there, which is cool

Not sure if we still do. But defo used to do stuff for merc f1

[violet shard]

I want to do wind tunnel testing, trackside engineering

[opaque arch]

cool pic

another cool pic

[modern crane]

Hello

I have a question, does the Williams FW15C glt the launch control system??

[edgy anchor]

Yes, I mean that car has next to everything in it

[modern crane]

Thanks, i was having some doubts as i didn't know if the launch control was used in early 2000's or also in the 90's

So why Prost and Mansell said that those hydraulic suspension cars where very difficult to drive if the got every possible facility in it?

[left geode]

Active suspension you mean

[modern crane]

Yeah, sorry for the mistake

[left geode]

Well,Active Suspension does remove part of the feeling the track a normal suspension would have since it does adjust automatically during a whole lap

[modern crane]

That make sense, thanks 🙂

[left geode]

Though it's possibly because it was the first time Mansell and Prost drove cars with completely new technologies and filled with every aid possible to be used

[modern crane]

Mhmh, that is also a good point

They said it was 1/1,5 seconds faster (without CVT)

[edgy anchor]

Both... By the same Traction Control came about, Launch Control was not far behind. I would say it at least came about by 1992 because McLaren had introduced the Throttle By Wire at least on their car

[modern crane]

What does the throttle by wire do?

[left geode]

Instead of having mechanical connections from the from the accelerator pedal to the throttle valve of the engine like cables, a electrical module and actuator is inserted in place

[edgy anchor]

That

The 1992 Honda I think had VVT too..

[left geode]

That's VTEC

[edgy anchor]

Yeah but it wouldn't've had Variable Lift

It had at least variable tract length

This is apparently the RA122E/B power/torque curve

Taken with a grain of salt coz 750hp in 1992? Naaaananana

[left geode]

Yeah,they actually had more than that

[edgy anchor]

Ah that's 1991

Yeah in 1992 they were at like 780 or so

[left geode]

It's said they had 764-805hp in 1992

[modern crane]

Where did u got those infos? 😭

[edgy anchor]

A place just called Grandprixengines

It looks at engine dev from 1902...? To like 2006

764 @ 14,400

[modern crane]

I thought the other teams didn't got a signle thing Williams didn't have

[edgy anchor]

... No?

Alot of teams had active suspension for example

Semi automatic gearboxes

[left geode]

Lotus actually was the first team to try active suspension way back to the early to mid-late 80s and Ferrari actually experimented semi-automatic gearboxes in 1979 with the 312T and Gilles Villenueve

[edgy anchor]

Wait the semi auto goes that far back?

What?

[left geode]

https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/magazine/articles/great-ferrari-innovations-the-f1-semi-automatic-gearbox

"Ferrari’s innovation was hard-won and would comprehensively alter the trajectory of F1. Pretty soon, everyone had adopted a similar semi-automatic system. But Ferrari was further ahead of the curve than most observers realised. Credit to the great Mauro Forghieri, the man Enzo Ferrari entrusted with the Scuderia’s technical destiny in 1963, when he was just 26. Fast forward to the late Seventies, with turbocharged engines the new paradigm and the finest F1 minds seeking a way to circumvent the lag that inevitably resulted.

Forghieri figured that a semi-automatic transmission might be one way of dealing with the problem, and fitted a prototype to a 1979 Ferrari 312 T. It worked by using a high-pressure hydraulic system, similar to that used in aviation, with buttons mounted on the steering wheel to trigger the gear changes. "

[edgy anchor]

Coz that massively predates even the 962 PDK's

[left geode]

"None other than Gilles Villeneuve then proceeded to test it at Ferrari’s Fiorano test track, where he apparently completed 100 laps without a hitch. There was only one problem: he didn’t like it. “Despite this successful outcome,” Forghieri opined, “he was not convinced. Gilles said to me, ‘A steel shift lever will always be more reliable than electronics.’ The project was temporarily set aside. Mr Ferrari always accepted requests from Gilles.”

[edgy anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/ironic-star-wars-chode-gif-5274592

[left geode]

And Lotus used active suspension firstly in 1983 with the Lotus 92 (reverted to a normal setup with the switch to the Lotus 93T and 94T) and then in 1987 with the Lotus 99T, though it had it's drawbacks

[edgy anchor]

Mainly that it was big heavy and engine sappy

[left geode]

A additional 25kg/55lbs and a loss of 5% of the Honda engine

[edgy anchor]

It does make me sad active suspension went by the wayside because it is a very road relevant tech

Granted nowadays you'd have to mandate it's static nature

[left geode]

Well,it was a considerably expensive technology (not every team had it in 1993) and then like most electronical aid it was prone to failure (I.E Berger crash at Estoril due to a suspension failure) and then given how F1 teams works, they would find their ways to make it way more overpowered

[modern crane]

Yeah i know but Williams got some technologies other teams didn't have, and i didn't know other teams also got type of technologies williams didnt have

Idk if u guys understeand me, my first language is spanish so i am not really good w english

[edgy anchor]

Nonono you're fine

[modern crane]

Its like, i though williams got every single advances in terms of techonlogy

[edgy anchor]

Williams have even said that McLaren's ohlins active suspension got better than the Springless ones Williams had themselves, but idk if that's just false humility

They did pretty much get the jump on everybody

But not like... It didn't take long for others to do similar because they have to

Like Ferrari used the Semi-Automatic gearbox but Williams were the first to have a true sequential motorcycle type one

[modern crane]

I think the only team to get a lil bit close to the Williams was actually McLaren

[edgy anchor]

Absolutely, but muh Ford-Cosworth HB5

[left geode]

Yeah,McLaren actually had the best chassis in 1993 but they got capped by the V8 Ford-Cosworth engine

And they started the season having the customer engine,only after some time they got to convince Cosworth to also give them the works engine used by Benetton which was the most updated version

[edgy anchor]

Apologies, McLaren had Bilsteins not Ohlins

[modern crane]

So, beside chasis and engine power, what other things McLaren glt that Williams didn't?

[edgy anchor]

Adrian Newey idk...

Obligatory https://youtu.be/_zAeX-SittI?si=Ux3PDOe0bymWMqto

if only Isuzu did the funny

[left geode]

Barge Boards

[edgy anchor]

The FW15C didn't have Bargeboards did it?

[left geode]

Nope,they didn't have it

[edgy anchor]

So... That... Isn't true

[left geode]

Williams only brought bargeboards with the B spec of the FW16

[modern crane]

Damn thats true

[edgy anchor]

9h you meant the other way around

[modern crane]

Yo guys, i have a doubt

Why the McLaren MP4/4 was so dominant? Beside having 2 of the goats, what was special abt that car?

I mean, aerodynamic didn't seem to be a huge problem back then

[civic fern]

Yeah i was thinking the other day >how has that not made it to the road

[opaque arch]

Just managed to build the fastest car just like redbull 2023

[modern crane]

Yeah but why they were the fastest? RedBull was incredibly fast bc of his suspension, so why was McLaren so good?

[edgy anchor]

It has

[short ether]

anyone know what the slowly blinking blue light on the wheel, not the antistall is on the f1 car after a crash?

[abstract pawn]

The antistall

[opaque arch]

bro the media just hyped too much about anti-dive that's not even the main reason

[opaque arch]

there's no such magic bullet in f1, its all about how all parts interect together

thats why you can see ferrari upgrades are downgrades

[left geode]

Summaring:

• A lower centre of gravity
• A car which shared the same philosophy Gordon Murray had with the late Brabham cars of very low sidepods and compact body to allow for decreased drag and improved airflow
• A Honda engine which was very reliable and economic in a year where turbocharged engines had a limit of 150 liters of fuel per race
• Using three longitudinal gear shafts instead of two in their gearbox which allowed them to extract even more performance compared to Lotus (which used the same engine),which had two shafts

[lost jungle]

How did the extra gear shaft help them extract more?

Performance

[left geode]

Correcting,three longitudinal gear axles

In a way,pretty much having better load distribution,handling and traction

[modern crane]

Damn bro, thank you

[paper wing]

Congrats @modern crane, you're now on lap 5

[gritty sun]

should i take chemistry in my A levels if i want to become an aerospace or a mechanical engineer?

for both motorsports and aeronautics

[west nimbus]

Chemistry won't really make a difference for those imo, but if you want to take it then go for it!

[acoustic condor]

The only way I could see chemistry helping is if you specifically want to work on batteries (for cars or planes… or whatever)

Formula E has had and continues to have issues with batteries, chargers, etc. Not an easy problem space, but should have a large potential future

[lost jungle]

What about thermodynamics and its involvement when it comes to airflow?

[opaque arch]

its still high school - doesn't matter

do what u want to do

[tall wyvern]

as long as you do physics and maths

[gritty sun]

true ig

[marble stirrup]

What else are you taking? What Uni's are you targeting?
If you are in the UK, the top universities require an A-star in maths and an A-star/A in Physics. They also recommend you take Further Maths (this usually means if your school offers it, you should take it; if not, no worries). So my advice would be to take those three, and if you can handle it, also take chemistry, but only take chemistry if you have those other three first (unless your school doesn't offer FM).

Above, I am specifically referring to Imperial and Oxbridge.
UCL says maths A star /A and Physics A star/A is required and they like Chemistry as a third choice. So it depends on what University you are applying to

Chemistry is a very good choice if you know that the University doesn't have a partitcular preferrence ( or likes it such as UCL)

So check the Uni's you are interested in for their requirements and preferred subjects and then make a decision

[gritty sun]

im from pakistan, we bave talked before.i have 4 subjects; Maths, physics, computer science and further maths. Im targeting ivy leagues and 3 unis in UK (ICL, Oxford and Cambridge)

[gritty sun]

got it thanks 🫡

[marble stirrup]

This would be the most ideal combination: Maths, physics, computer science and further maths. It's important to note that the standard offers from Imperial and Oxbridge is 3 A stars if you are doing 3 or between 2 A stars with 2 As and 4 A stars if doing 4. Also, there is the ESAT exam.

[marble stirrup]

no worries

[gritty sun]

ill give SATs next year 🫡

[marble stirrup]

i don't mean SAT, I mean the exam that Imperial and Cambridge do called ESAT

SAT is requried for the Ivy leagues.

[gritty sun]

ohh

[amber kraken]

I guess the current Ground Effect cars really hampers the driving styles of some of the current drivers, especially drivers like Lewis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OukkawLaA5M

[static breach]

Would explain Ricciardo's sudden drop since 2022 to now

Surprised people didn't figure it out sooner

[edgy anchor]

are we surprised?

I would say this is similar to his previous state with McLaren... He succeeds with the heavy topside aero cars and when the balance shifts he's up there but not dominant by any means

[static breach]

Hopefully after the 2026 regs kick in we should see a much more reminiscent version of Lewis

[edgy anchor]

Why?

[static breach]

Cars won't be as reliant on ground effect

Therefore the wings will come much more into play which is to Lewis's liking

And helps his driving style

[edgy anchor]

... They won't?

[limpid token]

yes, they are scaling down on freedoms in floors

[tall wyvern]

That doesn’t mean the floor isn’t powerful

[static breach]

Well yeah but it won't be as powerful as it is now

Therefore the wings will be a little more important

We aren't saying the floor isn't powerful we're just saying it's losing some of it's power

There's no doubt it's still going to be one of the main focuses of the new regs (+the engine obv,)

[tall wyvern]

You can’t know that though. The front wing is de powered and the front tyre wake control is better, which means the air going into the floor is better.

[static breach]

Ah yeah true

Can't say for certain but a quick overlook imo means the floor won't quite be as powerful

We can only wait and see

[limpid token]

Therefore the wings will be a little more important

technically they dont have to be more important if they are neutered even more, since they got rid of the outer 15-20cm on front wing to control outwash and made beamwings flat, just to name a few

[left geode]

The thing about ground effect is that the downforce delivery is more progressive and lesser static or linear than in a normal aerodynamic flow setup such as the previous regulations

[tall wyvern]

What?

[edgy anchor]

What?

[left geode]

I don't know how to explain it, but ground effect does have a very different way of gaining downforce compared to the usual car from 2021 to before

[merry delta]

as in the downforce generated is more of an exponential (or some other non-linear function) curve than a linear curve based on relative airspeed?

[left geode]

It's what i believe i guess, downforce is much easier and quickly produced more and more as the speed increases while during low speeds and reductions downforce bleeds out normally

Like the porpoising or currently the bottoming phenomenon

@merry delta

[merry delta]

I see

[merry delta]

the wording here was a bit awkward, so I asked for confirmation

[civic fern]

What?

[left geode]

I'm trying to make sense

[civic fern]

This is the negative downforce equation. Do you see anything that suggests an underfloor (part of Cl) would gain downforce differently from a wing (also part of Cl)?

[civic fern]

Like….the reason you’re getting people with aero experience straight up asking you “what?” is because what you’re saying is so far out of left field they have no idea what you’re talking about

[edgy anchor]

Woah hold on now with the tone

[edgy anchor]

clarify

[left geode]

No,i'm really too cooked for this one for real

[gritty sun]

hello, can someone help me with a science project? the problem statement is: "Pump air into a plastic water bottle partially filled with water. Under certain conditions, the bottle is launched and flies into the air. Investigate how the acceleration during liftoff depends on relevant parameters". now i have to do 3 main things: firstly understand the phenomenon of this experiment. secondly, make a mathematical model/equation of the observed phenomenon and conduct data analysis.

my experiment looks like this. except for the pink wings

[merry delta]

@gritty sun funnily enough, there are water rocket simulation tools that you can find online

while this does not have one such simulation tool, this group has done stuff with water rockets for years, and thus, their website has a bunch of useful resources & links:
http://www.aircommandrockets.com/

to ensure that you get accurate results with your rocket as well, I might recommend making a more robust/repeatable launcher

thus, you can control launch pressure more consistently than with using a cork

[median shoal]

Don’t quote me cuz science isn’t my strong point but I would assume the reason the phenomenon happens is due to a change in pressure from the air inside the bottle compared to out. Air is still a particle that needs its own space, when the bottle is full the air pushes out the only way it can go; down an through through the lid, pushing the bottle up. I would also imagine if the experiment was repeated using hot air being pumped into the bottle it’d go further as hot air is more dense than cold. Again this isn’t something I’m clued up on so don’t quote me on it 😭

[gritty sun]

thankyou :)

[weary gazelle]

crazy

[edgy anchor]

Also the partially filled with water is important because in this level... Fluids aren't compressible

So the pressure would uniformly press on the lid through the water

[merry delta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrPt-AktIMs

just make sure to use the right amount as well lol

[gritty sun]

hey it would help if you could clarify one other thing tho. if i express for example d(volume of water flowing out)/dt = product of cross sectional area of where the fluid the flowing out from and its velocity would it make it less accurate. im confused if ill have to take the flow of water going out as constant then since it would make it less accurate

and if it does make it less accurate then idk how much it would be because the eater will literally flow out in a burst

[gritty sun]

id appreciate it you could help as well

[edgy anchor]

Uhhh...

[median shoal]

I have no clue, sorry, my understanding of the rocket thingy was from a very basic knowledge of science from back when I was in Secondary School 😭😭

[gritty sun]

😭

thanks anyways

[raven dock]

is it just me or does the new 2026 front wing feel like it war taken from the 2004 cars

[edgy anchor]

That's the idea

The 2004-08 inwash wongs

[radiant iris]

Alr this isn't f1 but someone pls rate this thing, i think it's a flop

[violet shard]

thats actually really good!

[radiant iris]

Thxxx matee cheers

[opaque arch]

looks pretty good tbh would be better if u remove the black marker traces so people could actually see the car or you can make the traces thinner

[radiant iris]

Thx mate

[blazing saffron]

I think it looks awesome

but yeah try making the marker stripes a bit fainter

[amber kraken]

It turns out, according to Max, that the RB20 is suffering from both Oversteer and Understeer issues. Why does that reminds me of the Ferrari F14T?

[merry delta]

because the F14T also suffered from those issues

https://youtu.be/nNdwrR4iwx0

[amber kraken]

Almost looks like he has no power steering with that understeer

[merry delta]

that does make me wonder what RB screwed up with the RB20

ik it's not just 1 simple reason, but there definitely ought to be a simplification of the litany of reasons

[violet shard]

the just doesnt turn wtf

[left geode]

Simplifying it, the upgrades RedBull brought (after Newey's exit/after Miami) is disrupting the aerodynamical balance which was really refined to a perfect point with the previous year cars but also it possibly screwed the mechanical grip or advantage they also had

[violet shard]

Somehow the RB20 is now understeery and oversteery

[left geode]

Also,it's said that the floor Max used during the weekend (which was a remanufactured version from the early season's spec) was 2 tenths slower than the one Perez is using (which is the current/new spec)

https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/red-bull-weaknesses-mclaren-exploited-dutch-gp-mark-hughes-report/

[violet shard]

max still got p2, shows how much of a beast he is

[left geode]

""Not only that, but the older-spec floor Verstappen used was believed by the team post-race to have been around 0.2s slower than the newer version used by Sergio Perez. But the deficit of the inappropriate wing setting was greater even than that, it believes.""

[left geode]

And that's the thing, is it predictable or is it unpredictable like the F14T?

[violet shard]

Id say unpredictable

[left geode]

If you can't predict how the car will behave in every turn, you'll be losing a lot of time trying to correct it in a understeer or make it stable in a oversteer

We're at a point were we are seeing that Max is actually making the difference and covering the deficit from the car to the others now

That's why i said yesterday, if you really want to know where the RedBull car is situated just look at Perez which is a average/middle point driver

[civic fern]

Looks pretty cool actually

[civic fern]

Chucho is not an average/middle point driver

Hes worse

[left geode]

He's at least at the same category as Bottas

[civic fern]

No even Bottas is far ahead

Especially this year

Last year Bottas wasnt much, but this year hes actually been driving solid races that get undone by Sauber being Sauber

Chucho was awful last year and no better this year

[left geode]

Anyway, like i said, if you want to know where RedBull is situated at the moment just look at Checo.
Last year he was commonly at the podium or at least at the top 6 before McLaren started the upgrades

[tall wyvern]

So does max blow upwards really hard for more downforce or something?

[left geode]

Explain better what you're talking about please

[tall wyvern]

The car is fastest at the edge of grip (or power). This is what lap sims do. They have a physics model which drives constantly at the limit of grip (or power). Max gets closer to this theoretical lap sim lap. It is impossible for him to drive faster than the car is capable of, up to the limit of grip (or power)

[left geode]

Theorically in driver terms it's possible (overdriving for example), but obviously this means wearing and heating the tyres more than what is desired which obviously means losing a lot of time and risking early stops or a accident if the car snaps or goes out

It's also possible to achieve faster times if the car is finely setupped and not suffering from aerodynamical or mechanical instabilities

Which is obviously RedBull's achilles heel

The current issue all teams have in the current ground effect era is that any upgrade can easily improve your car or make it go backwards in a instant as the current cars are totally dependent on having a perfect air flow and direction through the whole car from the front wing,to the body and the floor,to the diffuser and rear wing

You change a small thing and it's totally improved or disrupted and thus another problem appears (i.e Ferrari bringing the update which gave Charles his win at Monaco, a low speed track but then brought bottoming and bouncing at medium-high speed tracks)

[left geode]

@tall wyvern

[left geode]

Oh,and you also have to account the engine modes,ERS and the fuel

[civic fern]

And you think the lapsim doesnt?

[left geode]

Simulators do account all factors but then it's not accurate on all factors that are variables

Weather, temperatures, air speeds, track conditions are easily changeable if it's not predicted or expected

[tall wyvern]

The whole point of a lap sim is to work out how to set up the car. It literally tells you what to do for the fastest lap time.

[tall wyvern]

That’s also always been the case

[tall wyvern]

Also always been the case. Cfd and the wind tunnel is the whole car anyway.

I do agree with you in the sense that an upgrade for a certain car trajectory is not always better.

[left geode]

https://youtu.be/kulRPNfQjJA?si=xPRwJCSNUO1PyDhQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZoMJsltuMs

[left geode]

So,now we have a possible reason of why McLaren's upgrades and the whole car seems to be so balanced on all tracks:
https://www.fxxinstagram.com/p/C_NMQd-ihzv/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

They can simulate better how the car will react in different angles against the wind

And it seems Ferrari is also going in this upgrade route for their wind tunnel

"A yaw rotation is a movement around the yaw axis of a rigid body that changes the direction it is pointing, to the left or right of its direction of motion."

[tall wyvern]

Wind tunnels can’t do actual corners because they (obviously) can’t do curved flow

[inland cobalt]

how do wind tunnels work?

i always thought they were just tunnels with massive ass fans on one side

[violet shard]

they basically are

[tall wyvern]

all f1 teams use closed return wind tunnels, which means the wind tunnel is a loop. it looks like this

[violet shard]

neweys book is cool af

[inland cobalt]

ohh

thanks

[opaque arch]

printing leaked f1 car parts 💀

[fading cosmos]

3D Experience right?

[fading cosmos]

1:1 scale????

[opaque arch]

1:2

[opaque arch]

ye i use catia - this model was leaked a few years ago

[fading cosmos]

leaked?

[limpid token]

is it from the williams dings?

where they leaked fairly high quality model of their new car as a 3D model

[violet shard]

does anyone have blueprints on f1 cars?

anything after the halo was added is good

[fading cosmos]

it's hard to find it, but i have 3d model of f1 car. the creator is surface designer on f1 team

[violet shard]

ooh can you send it here please?

[paper wing]

Congrats @violet shard, you're now on lap 45

[violet shard]

i have no life

[fading cosmos]

unfortunately, he takedown the whole model

but the front wings can still be downloaded

https://grabcad.com/library/front-wing-01-1

[cinder abyss]

does anyone know any good physics programs to test aerodynamics with?

[glossy ruin]

ansys

you also need a beefy ahh computer

dont even try it without a beefy ahh computer

and be prepared to spend hours and hours troubleshooting

[cinder abyss]

my laptop is a gaming laptop but its 5 years old so ill test how my laptop handles the program before getting too serious with it

[glossy ruin]

what are the specs

most likely will be shit

[cinder abyss]

let me check

which ones are relevant

[glossy ruin]

GPU and CPU and Ram

[cinder abyss]

ok

give me a few minutes while i try to remember where to find these

[glossy ruin]

open up task manager

click on performance

[cinder abyss]

i have 8 gb of memory

[glossy ruin]

what gpu what cpu

[cinder abyss]

my cpu is an intel(r) core i5-9300h

my gpu is an nvidia geforce gtx 1650

[glossy ruin]

yea prob not worth attempting

[cinder abyss]

damn

what specs would i need to run it

[glossy ruin]

new cpu new gpu more ram

[cinder abyss]

ok ill probably just have to look for a physics program that my computer can run

[glossy ruin]

you likely wont find any

[cinder abyss]

damn

[glossy ruin]

CFD is like notoriously high performanec

[cinder abyss]

maybe ill just have to build a physical model

[glossy ruin]

yea probably ur easiest bet

[cinder abyss]

i have a fan and flour i could figure out how to make that work

[glossy ruin]

flour would be shit

you'd want to use smoke

[cinder abyss]

yeah i figured lol i was mostly joking

[cinder abyss]

or water vapor

water vapor would probably be better considering i have to present my project at school

[glossy ruin]

that would also probably not work

[cinder abyss]

oh

not visible enough?

[glossy ruin]

yea

[cinder abyss]

hmmm

[glossy ruin]

id either go incense or dry ice

incense easier to get

[cinder abyss]

even though dry ice is harder to get ill have to use that instead of incense cause my school has a no scents policy

id just rather not use smoke from smoldering or burning for a school project anyway

[glossy ruin]

fog machine?

i mean i guess a vaporizer would work

[cinder abyss]

my school might actually have a fog machine, ill have to ask one of the music teachers

[glossy ruin]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AerospaceEngineering/comments/1e11ayv/diy_wind_tunnel_garage_experiments/

hes using a vape

prob not allowed at school

could find an alternative tho

[cinder abyss]

definitely not allowed at my school lol

[glossy ruin]

lol

[cinder abyss]

i have an idea as to how i could make water vapor work

[glossy ruin]

https://www.instructables.com/Make-your-own-smoke-fluid/

this looks easy

[glossy ruin]

this is prob the easiest way

[cinder abyss]

what about a water diffuser

these things

[glossy ruin]

i've never used one

how often does the vapor come out

[cinder abyss]

always

[glossy ruin]

yeah that could also work then maybe

[cinder abyss]

as long as its turned on theres water vapor coming out

[glossy ruin]

make sure its allowed by ur shcool

[cinder abyss]

yeah

im sure itll be fine as long as theres no scents in the water

but ill double check

for the model of the car i could see if the computer science teacher will let me use his 3d printers and maybe help me with building the model in blender

[cinder abyss]

@glossy ruin do you think this could work?

[glossy ruin]

yea prob

[cinder abyss]

ok

[glossy ruin]

any libraries near you prob have 3d printers too

[cinder abyss]

i dont think mine does

im sure ill be able to figure out this project

[merry delta]

you might also be able to help one these with propylene glycol. That is a common fogging solution

and it's rather cheap

in the US, 1 gal (~3.79 L) is around $40

more than likely, you'll be able to dilute it with water, helping prolong this volume

[opaque arch]

make sure the fog machine makes laminar flow

or it would be pretty pointless

[opaque arch]

i have that - i know him

this surface model right

[opaque arch]

dm me

[violet shard]

for?

[opaque arch]

the model

if u want to

[fading cosmos]

can anyone tell me how to become surface design engineer or aerodynamics engineer??

[opaque arch]

just learn how to use CATIA

its not that hard

for aerodynamics its much harder

basically be good at maths and physics and do aerospace in uni

[violet shard]

@opaque arch it wont let me DM you, just send it here?

[fading cosmos]

i can use catia but not that good

[fading cosmos]

i'm mechanical engineer student

[opaque arch]

i am 14 lmao

[violet shard]

LMAO

[opaque arch]

i made this a few months ago

[fading cosmos]

nice model

i made the rear wing

[opaque arch]

did u get a cracked license?

or school?

cuz u cant buy v5 now

[fading cosmos]

cracked, v5 is no more

why v5? i thought 3dx is better

[fading cosmos]

where you learn catia?? youtube??

[opaque arch]

3D Expereience EDU + prior CAD experience

[opaque arch]

who the hell likes cloud plm

if the server is down ur fucked

the only good thing is u get modern UI

[fading cosmos]

are you from eu?

[opaque arch]

nah i am from AU

[fading cosmos]

better than v5, but v5 not that bad

[opaque arch]

u cant even export ur files in 3d experience if ur server is down

and the software itself is fat

like 50+GB

[fading cosmos]

if you really 14, i think you are very talented

[opaque arch]

thanks

[fading cosmos]

yeah, at first i thought it's not cloud base because the size is so big

[opaque arch]

they got 2 types of 3d experience

the first one is like tinkercad and second one is the app version which most of the f1 teams use

v5 is goated

i know people still uses it

if ur doin a personal project then go for v5 if ur doing group work then 3d experience

[fading cosmos]

does AU have good motorsport industry? i really want to work at motorsport

[opaque arch]

nah

AU sucks

at engineering

[fading cosmos]

so why you choose 3dx? do you avoid cracked software?

[opaque arch]

it was free when i got it, i have a cracked v5 installer but i am too scared when trying to install it

my 3d experience is expriing soon

[fading cosmos]

so motorsport just grow in EU?

[opaque arch]

i would either buy student license 3dx or get the cracked v5

[fading cosmos]

why? if you not cracked it will be written as student version

[opaque arch]

the installer page says if its illegally distributed they can track u down and get ur personal details - maybe i am too worried about...

[civic fern]

DS doesnt give a fuck

[opaque arch]

i am a kid so u know

[civic fern]

V5 isnt the cash cow for them anymore

Selling 3DX to corporate customers is

[fading cosmos]

maybe if you use it for commercial project, they will charge you. but i think they don't give a fuck

[opaque arch]

and i run out of storage cuz i have OPENFOAM

[civic fern]

3DX also >>>>> V5 but a lot of the advantages you just wont see as a single person almost exclusively doing CAD modeling

[opaque arch]

true i have been designing by myself

and i am on a normal pc not a workstation

i run on 3050 so its a bit low end

[fading cosmos]

who are you? are you really 14? that's crazy kid

[opaque arch]

and a 4 core CPU

[opaque arch]

u can get my linkedin if u wanna too

[civic fern]

For example, you can VR the entire process of an F1 pit stop in 3DX with the right apps. You’re not doing that in V5 lmao

[fading cosmos]

yeahh, sure

[opaque arch]

Bro 😭 I run on shitty pc

simpleFOAM fucking crashed my pc

[civic fern]

Well you’d need specific roles to have a shot

[opaque arch]

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ted-l-4aa024258/

[civic fern]

I know its possible because my company has them for a different purpose

[fading cosmos]

do you work for f1 team??????

[opaque arch]

i will ask my parents to get a workstation when i turn 16

[civic fern]

But i dont think DS markets them to enthusiast consumers, 99% of which will only use CATIA (if they even make it out of Solidworks) to make stuff for 3D Printing

[civic fern]

No im in aerospace

[fading cosmos]

you should. i run catia,sw,fusion,ansys on gtx 1050 laptop

[opaque arch]

3dx is graphics and cpu demanding

[fading cosmos]

are you aero engineer/mech engineer?

[opaque arch]

i dont know how the software works but it takes like 5 minutes for my laptop to start 3d experience

so its kinda frustrating

[civic fern]

I was Aero/MechE in college. Title is Systems at work

[civic fern]

Whats your laptop?

Also do you care about specifically using CATIA at all?

[opaque arch]

i am making a chassis right not - i havent finish the halo so it looks weird

[opaque arch]

yes i do - surface design is just better

[civic fern]

Have you tried Siemens NX?

[opaque arch]

intel i5 11320H and rtx 3050 16gb ddr4 512gb ssd

[fading cosmos]

Does working in aerospace require really good fluid mechanics?

[opaque arch]

ye i did

[civic fern]

No

[opaque arch]

but the student version is quite annoying in terms of importing and exporting so...

[fading cosmos]

that's top tier gaming pc

[opaque arch]

how

[civic fern]

Ok….it shouldnt take 5 minutes

[opaque arch]

its under 1000 dollars

[opaque arch]

it does indeed

[silk mauve]

for 3d print?

looks nice

[opaque arch]

ye soon

[silk mauve]

nice

[fading cosmos]

so how good does it need? just basic understanding of fluid mechanic?

[fading cosmos]

that's lot of money

[opaque arch]

perspectives ig

[civic fern]

Well if you just want a job in the aerospace industry, just passing and getting your almost-anything engineering degree will do. If you specifically want to do flight sciences, then yeah you’d need uni experience in aero

[opaque arch]

i wanna get sth like a2000 but its too expensive

its a thousand dollars for a graphics card

i also wonder whether i should get an old threadripper or just a consumer cpu

[fading cosmos]

i just want to be design engineer/mechanical engineer and i'm currently study mech engineering

[opaque arch]

is mechanical engineering boring

or i should say is it not cars related

[civic fern]

@opaque arch this is a 2019 thinkpad with no actual GPU that would give DS an aneurysm if they ever found out i ran 3DX on it. If it doesnt take 5 minutes to load up on this thing, theres probably time to be found on your machine lol

[violet shard]

ayyy another aussie

[fading cosmos]

it's less than $1000 on my region

[opaque arch]

could be my edu server unreliable so it takes so long to connect

the edu server is based in EU

[paper wing]

Congrats @opaque arch, you're now on lap 10

[civic fern]

Yeah you’ll be fine

[opaque arch]

i mean saving a file would crash my 3dx sometimes but its better after the 4.19 update

[civic fern]

Ok somethings wrong, that should not be happening

[opaque arch]

i talked to the 3dx guys and they said the edu server is sometimes quite unreliable

i run on student license and its free so you know...

[fading cosmos]

it's not boring, but if you compare it to mechatronic/electronic it will look boring

[civic fern]

I just coughed up the $60 a year

[opaque arch]

i got my license from project of the year

[fading cosmos]

it's still related

[opaque arch]

ok then its not that bad ig

[civic fern]

Also are you sure youre not just better off served with NX? It runs a lot better on my ThinkPad than 3DX

[opaque arch]

i am not trying - i am not gonna unintall like 75gb of files and install NX and i cant continue my projects

they are all 3dxml

and its annoying

[fading cosmos]

are you from eu? because it's hard to find aero/mech designer jobs in my region

[civic fern]

US

[fading cosmos]

i know it's funny question but, do they accept student from sea?

[civic fern]

I think your best bet is car companies

[fading cosmos]

there is no RnD at my country, it really sucks

[civic fern]

Depends on company, some will sponsor visas and whatever. Im not familiar with exactly what it takes cuz i never had to deal with it lol

[opaque arch]

I am in Aus its even worse

[fading cosmos]

buy another ssd/hdd

[civic fern]

Hes getting a workstation in two years isnt he?

[opaque arch]

my dad wont let me to upgrade my laptop he said its dangerous and i will break the laptop

[fading cosmos]

i thought au is better than sea

[fading cosmos]

aight thank's, it really help me

[fading cosmos]

just do it kid, it's not that hard

[opaque arch]

my parents wont let me

[civic fern]

Im just gonna say hes against the idea but definitely not for that reason lmao

[opaque arch]

they would rather buy me a new pc then doing that

[civic fern]

Time to build a PC

[fading cosmos]

they won't let you if they know it lol

[opaque arch]

ye my brother built his pc and he plays minecraft. Its got 32gb of ram and its such a waste

[civic fern]

Bruh

[fading cosmos]

yes, better if you build pc

[fading cosmos]

32gb ram just for playing cube game, that's wild

[opaque arch]

and he got a 4060 just for that 💀

[fading cosmos]

that's wild

[violet shard]

yeah you just gotta migrate to europe

do a degree in the UK

[green pond]

george got DSQed because of the weight issue, and that all he needed was 1.5kg. he didn’t pick that weight up because Spa doesn’t have a cool-down lap. so if there was a cool-down lap then he would’ve retained his P1? or what’s the issue exactly?

[opaque arch]

maybe - i dont think its worth migrating to place a just for a job

[civic fern]

If your goal is F1 you’re migrating all over the world

[fading cosmos]

i think it's worth if that job is your dream job

[opaque arch]

idk

how much do u make as an cfd engineer

or an aerodynamicist

[civic fern]

In F1? Peanuts

As with every role unless your name is Adrian Newey

[opaque arch]

what role do u need to be to make 200k USD

per year

[civic fern]

Well maybe not literal peanuts, but for someone with a masters degree in engineering F1 pay really isnt great

[opaque arch]

ye know that

ferrari the worst

[civic fern]

Software Engineer

[opaque arch]

i dont like software engineer thou

[civic fern]

In Tech.

Like if you graduate CS and work at FAANG you’ll hit 200k very quickly. Outside of that….its gonna be tough

[opaque arch]

i know someone whos a fresh grad in US and he works for crowdstrike bros was already getting 200k for his first job lmao

why do motorsport engineers get paid like peanuts while software engineers get better offer ?

[civic fern]

Because tech makes more money

[fading cosmos]

sad but true

[fading cosmos]

how much?

[civic fern]

The guy building spaceships to Mars vs the guy building a way to get 0.5% more ad revenue from moms in Kansas? The 2nd guy gets paid double because the money doing that will make the company is much higher than what the government pays the 1st guy’s company

[civic fern]

Like 40k US last i checked

From entry level

You might be asking why i call that peanuts, but for someone with a masters in Aero (basically everyone who is good enough to get an interview from an F1 aero department will have that at minimum) you can clear 100k in the US

And you dont even need to live in California or somewhere crazy expensive to achieve that

This is all fresh grad with 0 full time job experience

[fading cosmos]

how about the living cost,work load?

[fading cosmos]

so US>EU sallary?

[civic fern]

Ask someone who lives in the UK, and F1 workload is probably 24/7

In the US basically all engineers work 40 hrs, regardless of industry

Anyone doing more is an exception

[fading cosmos]

sorry, i thought you know more about it

[civic fern]

Generally speaking, yeah

[fading cosmos]

so it's worth to work in US?

[civic fern]

US companies will outsource labor to people in other countries because they come cheaper but ive never heard of any company coming to US because they can skimp on payroll lmao

[civic fern]

Yes

[fading cosmos]

but i heard that lot of gun violence in US, is that true?

[civic fern]

No

[opaque arch]

100k only and bro has a master wtf

[civic fern]

A lot compared to countries with actual gun laws

But its not a huge deal for the most part

[civic fern]

If you work in tech you dont even need the masters to hit 200

[opaque arch]

Then why people do it passion?

[fading cosmos]

so is it safe to work in us?

[civic fern]

Yes

[civic fern]

Do what?

[fading cosmos]

so how mech eng to get 200k? switch to cs??

[civic fern]

Get to director level management after 20 years, maybe 10 in a high cost of living area, or build a startup

Or somehow get hired by Apple to design iPads lol

[fading cosmos]

and cs get 200k less than 5 years?

[civic fern]

Yeah just look up Facebook Apple Amazon Netflix Google salaries

[fading cosmos]

🙂🙂🙂🙂🙂

[deft burrow]

that cube game can take up quite a bit of ram

[deft burrow]

just dont live in real ghetto neighborhoods and you'll be fine

[fading cosmos]

I mean, isn't that a bit too much for minecraft?

[fading cosmos]

what is ghetto neighborhoods? sorry i don't know about it

[deft burrow]

lets move to #deqeneral-🤪 I didn't realize this was the technical chat.

[fading cosmos]

ok, sorry

[violet shard]

just work in australia

its fire

[opaque arch]

maxing out my cpu just for openfoam

who doesnt like OpenFoam

[fading cosmos]

how long it take to solve?

[sharp juniper]

Hey guys

The issues with the RB20

Isn't it the same as the FW16?

[civic fern]

depends on cell count on the mesh

and whether its transient sim or not

[fading cosmos]

mesh element right?

[civic fern]

sort of

its the number of cells that would determine how long it takes

[merry delta]

we...don't know. The driver's do call it not a particularly great car to drive. Honestly, what the drivers are saying reminds me of the SF23. That car was super quick on a good day, and not at all on a bad day

[opaque arch]

Couple of hours for a front wing element

[raven shore]

Using i5 as quantum is flex itself

[opaque arch]

What quantum

[left geode]

Quantum computer/processor

[glossy ruin]

hes not doign that tho

[opaque arch]

its just an i5

11 gen

[glossy ruin]

fellas trippin fr

[opaque arch]

the rear is just understeery - too much rear donwforce but they dont wanna sacrifice it cuz their car would be more shit / same as w13 and w14's issue but opposite

[fading cosmos]

how you know? did you just analyze rb 20 rear wing using cfd?

[prime mortar]

If this is true locking the diff more should help alleviate some of the issues. Hence why Max who is a more front ended driver is able to perform better then checo. (Also the skill difference). And because of the balancing issues that the RB20 has, giving up rear downforce (which helps it feel more balanced) would kill the car. Max in Hungary moving BB back so far yet still not being able to rotate the car is a good example.

But another problem with locking a diff so much to stop understeer is that through certain corners, the car can feel less balanced and driving on the limit becomes a chore.

[left geode]

Nope,the issue with the FW16 in it's early season interation was that it suffered from aerodynamical stall at the rear

As Newey said to German Auto, Motor & Sport in 2015:
"[The 1994 Nogaro test] ... confirmed that the car's side pods were too long, which meant that the aero was split from the diffuser when the nose of the car dipped and the side-pods got too close to the track."

RedBull's problems with the RB20 come due to a inherent issue that the ground effect era gave for every team which is that any upgrade/update/change on any part of the car can easily disrupt the airflow or balance from the car at varying situations

The clearest examples in this year is Mercedes bouncing forward during Austria to Spa and then going backwards returning from the summer break, and Ferrari bringing updates earlier and then suffering from bouncing

[prime mortar]

Another issue with this current era is the ability to create a car that is faster then what we have. Sure we will get cars faster next year. But with the ground effect era, the floor is only so big, the wings can only be so different, and sidepods can have so many more concepts.
Which means that the FIA timed the length of this current regs pretty well. But if anything next year may be a battle with weight and chassis more than aero. This year is the final year where teams will be directing full resources into this reg. As you may know starting Jan 1 2025 you will be allowed to start developing the 2026 cars. Hence why this year is so crucial to settle the grid for 2025.
Obviously there will be some teams sticking to developing this current reg rather than the next one. Williams I believe is one of them.
Thats why stuff like the "Illegal" braking system that Redbull "may" have used is one of the strongest things to have. The mechanicals is going to surpass the importance of Aero soon. (Not that mechanicals weren't equally important in the first place). Sure there will still be some new Aero trends in the future. But more likely than not we will say WAY more use of this years parts in next years car.

We already know Redbull is sacrificing the development of the RB21 to try and keep hold of the 2024 championship. This year there is a chance Redbull could win at least one title. Next year it could be anyones game. We know Merc and MCL have a good base. Ferrari has to figure out their development path for the future. And Redbull has some car consistency issues (like Ferrari 2022). I think we have known since around R7 or so this year that 2025 will be a incredible season.

[opaque arch]

suspension geometry and chassis design always acts a huge role. Techincally in 2020, redbul has the best aero car but mercedes cooked with das and fixed the w10 suspension

rb16 is not bad

[opaque arch]

the honda engine wasnt strong enough - have to derating so much earlier

[prime mortar]

Said that in my first message

Just buried somewhere in there

[crude glacier]

then isnt it a ferrari f2012?

[crude glacier]

thats always been the case, rb = better aero, but merc too strong with ep

so thats why rb dominated more on tracks like monaco

[prime mortar]

Also because Merc always had one of the longest wheelbases on the grid, and RB and one of the shortest. While it doesn't make a world of difference it is still a factor at places like monaco. Let not forget the Mclaren 2015-2017 cars had solid chassis but it had the horrible engines.

[left geode]

Nah,this is more like the F14T

[fading cosmos]

how you guys analyze car weakness and problem? watch from last race or what?

[serene crest]

Um

That’s a very good question

I can ask Lando if u want

[quiet mantle]

Multiple races since last upgrade package, sometimes the team gets the setup wrong

[fading cosmos]

really?😂

[fading cosmos]

so how you decide the weakness of the car if there is no upgrade like in early season?

[quiet mantle]

Problems that persist every race, for example lack of straight line speed, continuous bouncing at high speed, higher tyre degradation then other teams

[opaque arch]

L 3d Experience

second time today

now the third time

massive L

[fading cosmos]

it's time to switch into V5

[opaque arch]

recommend installer or link?

[fading cosmos]

ok thanks bro, it really help me

[fading cosmos]

getintopc.com

but you need some installer exe, i'll send you if you need

or you can find it on the comment section

[opaque arch]

what version do u have

[opaque arch]

can u send me some

@fading cosmos

[fading cosmos]

lastest version on that website

[fading cosmos]

it will take a time, i suggest you to download it and i'll send you the installer.exe

[opaque arch]

the latest one is 2018

couldnt see 2024

[fading cosmos]

v5r 2018/v5r 28

[fading cosmos]

there is no catia in 2024

[opaque arch]

i pretty sure there is R2024

or R2020

[fading cosmos]

no, it's 3dx

[opaque arch]

found a 2020

even 2021

[fading cosmos]

maybe you can try it

i'm using that website because it's easy to download the file

[fading cosmos]

you can download it, if it works i'll download it too

[opaque arch]

it works but its slow

[fading cosmos]

can you send me the link?

[opaque arch]

https://filecr.com/windows/ds-catia/

[fading cosmos]

use IDM for better speed

[fading cosmos]

what is 3dx file type?

[opaque arch]

3dxml

[opaque arch]

whats that

[fading cosmos]

internet download manager

[fading cosmos]

just that? no STEP?

[opaque arch]

bruh u need to pay that

ye u can import step

and other file

but 3dx native file is 3dxml

v5 is cat i thin k

[fading cosmos]

bruh you know what i mean

[opaque arch]

i mean idm

canu zip that and send it to me

its gonna take like 16 hours for me to download

[fading cosmos]

it's cat part, you can make it step to open on catia v5

[fading cosmos]

DM or here?

[opaque arch]

dm

[frosty helm]

hey, I guess this is the best place to ask, i wanted to make a website to compare sectors and pace etc of drivers from any season and session so I wanted to use to fastf1 api but that is a python package and I am not sure how to use it n javascript etc so i can convert it for the frontend., if anyone could give me pointers that would be good

[rotund kelp]

Might wanna try #ot｜tech that’s where the geeks are

[frosty helm]

will send it in there, thanks

[civic fern]

@opaque arch did you actually manage to get V5?

It sounds like youre trying to go backwards from CATIA V6-3DX back to V5 with a 3dxml file

I get the feeling it doesnt work like that

Holy shit nvm it actually does

I just imported a step from 3DX to V5 on my work computer and it actually kept all the data

[fading cosmos]

really?

[civic fern]

Yep

[fading cosmos]

do you know about class a surfacing?

[civic fern]

Points, lines, 3D Curves etc

Kept their data and can be edited

[civic fern]

Not really

I know what it is and the idea behind it, but never had to make any

[fading cosmos]

can't it be edited anymore?

[civic fern]

You can

[fading cosmos]

i really wonder how engineers design cars in catia, what workbench do they use? GSD? ICEM?

[civic fern]

Generative Shape Design

[fading cosmos]

wow, i just knew it

[civic fern]

Generally speaking you start with the outside and then work inside with structures

[fading cosmos]

so they making complex car body design using points, splines??? wow

[civic fern]

Essentially

Well the thing they’d probably use a lot of is “Curve by Law”

Tldr you generate a curve based on a mathematical equation

[fading cosmos]

how i can learn it? i really want to learn about it

[civic fern]

Thats how you ensure tangency and end points over a wide area

Class A Surfacing lmao

[fading cosmos]

i never found an online class on udemy that talk about that

[civic fern]

Do this a bunch of times, fill it in, and you get a surface

[fading cosmos]

specifically

[civic fern]

In reality it’d be coded

So you’d run a script (like a macro) that generates all that for you

[civic fern]

Its no joke. Curve by Law isnt an easily accessible feature

The student version of 3DX for example doesnt come with it. I only found out it exists through my work laptop

[fading cosmos]

how we sure that script is fits our design?

the engineer make the code?

things are very complicated now

[civic fern]

Its simply but not easy

Take creating the hood of a car for example

You start with the 4 corners: the corners of where it connects to your windshield, and the corners where your headlights are

Then you generate a longitudinal curve to connect the two corners on the windshield side

Same to connect the headlights, but because you used mathematical equations you can control the curves to maintain tangency simply by defining the equation the curve follows

[fading cosmos]

using curve by law?

[civic fern]

Yes