f1-technical

[normal oxide]

Guys, need someone to explain me how excatly CFD and Wind Tunnel hours work... I am trying to tweak a game, and make it most close to real life.

[short ether]

oh

[sweet tree]

what

Kimi was fast as fuck in his prime

He just didn't give enough shits towards the end of it

• not the greatest car

[ornate hamlet]

he was a dominant driver in a non dominant car

[delicate kayak]

Just look at kimi's pole lap at Monaco 2005

[primal patrol]

faster than schumi

[silver jewel]

I think for my power unit for my own car I am just going to buy a used motorcycle and rip out the guts and use the parts

Either this or I go to a junk yard and see if I can find a car engine in good condition

[silent heron]

Does any of you know how many G’s were pulled by Hamilton I’m the W11 at pouhon?

[sweet tree]

Probably like 6

that'd make sense

[silent heron]

And what’s the highest G ever pulled in an F1 car?

(Without crashing)

[sweet tree]

idk I never seen anything higher than 6

maybe 7

[median ember]

would be shocked if there's anything higher than 6

[sweet tree]

You can take the SF car flat in pouhon on gt7 💀

[sweet tree]

same

6 G's is fucking insane tho

I wanna know how that feels

[silent heron]

You’d pass out

Like on a rollercoaster, but much more brain destroying

[sweet tree]

yeah i'm definitely the weakest person here

[median ember]

Depends how long it's sustained really

[sweet tree]

I mean like

into Pouhon

Has anyone ever passed out in an F1 car pulling G's?

[silent heron]

I seriously doubt someone has passed out while driving an f1 car

Otherwise they would be into a wall

Maybe they felt like passing out, but they didn’t

At least not recently

[tall wyvern]

It’s the wrong direction of g to pass out anyway, that would be vertical loading.

[sweet tree]

So you can only pass out in vertical g?

[tall wyvern]

I’m sure you could eventually pass out for both, but vertical loading you can pass out in seconds.

[sweet tree]

wow

How tf did David Purley survive his crash?

[civic fern]

Fastest driver since Senna

Think about how good Mika Hakkinen was, standing up to Schumacher (at least for a time). Then make him both younger and even faster

Thats Kimi Raikkonen in a nutshell

[sweet tree]

Yeah kimi was a fucking bullet

a hyper sonic bullet

[viral trellis]

no he was a driver

[sweet tree]

no he wasnt

[craggy moon]

didnt someone get hit by a bolt and get knocked out?

[sweet tree]

yeah Felipe Massa got hit with a spring

[craggy moon]

what year

[sweet tree]

2009 I think

[devout eagle]

2009 Hungary

[silent heron]

ah true true

[final dust]

they say that alonso was erectrocuted while driving his car at the 2015 spain pre-season test

[devout eagle]

I think this picture fits in here

[silent heron]

Yes but I don’t class that as passing out

I mean he did but it wasn’t because of a hit or smth

[proud anvil]

yeah, he crashed at 60km/h, passed out and woke up thinking he was 13 years old due to memory loss, behind him it was vettel. He got his memory back 10 minutes after waking up

[proud anvil]

yes

[vocal quartz]

Thanks because I actually wanted to know all this time what was inside an F1 car

Although I still don't know what kind of suspension is in them

And never really got the time to look into it lol

[proud anvil]

i can kinda picture an f1 suspension ngl, even tho its still a weird one

[vocal quartz]

Cool

[upper ivy]

if it helps, this is a render of a rear suspension from Mercedes https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/content/dam/brandhub/mercedes-amg-f1/news/2019/06/the-suspension-of-a-formula-one-car/3_4252.jpg

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/de/news/2019/06/die-aufhaengung-an-einem-formel-1-auto/_jcr_content/root/slider_4/sliderchilditems/slideritem_0/image/MQ7-0-image-20191104195321/2_4252.jpeg

[sweet tree]

Suspension

[vocal quartz]

Thank you so much

[upper ivy]

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2019/06/the-suspension-of-a-formula-one-car/ it's from this article

[vocal quartz]

Oh ok thanks

[edgy anchor]

https://www.autoracing1.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/indycar/misc/penskeshocks.jpg

Here's what you have when you don't use Torsion bars

Which'd be underneath the pivot points next to the number 13

[sweet tree]

kinda looks like a spinder

Is this a pushrod suspension?

[vocal quartz]

Looks like a push rod

[vocal quartz]

Ah ok

[edgy anchor]

Pushrod Coilover, aye

[craggy moon]

it was on purpose

[acoustic prawn]

Hey fellows,

Are there any rules as to the dimensions of an F1 car?

how long, tall or wide it should be?

[naive elm]

Felipe Massa Hungary 2009

got hit by a spring from Jenson Button

they had to put a plate inside his forehead because there was a hole

[viral trellis]

Rubens Barrichello*

[naive elm]

ah ok

[viral trellis]

Nice pfp btw

[short ether]

Yes. The car is split into 30 “reference volumes” and then “profiles”. All which are limits to dimensions and have their own rules and shapes etc.

For just length of the entire car, it can’t be more than 5.5metres. Width can’t be more than 2m

[short ether]

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2022_formula_1_technical_regulations_-_iss_3_-_2021-02-19.pdf

Appendix 1 has all the details

[leaden hill]

Doubt I'm first to post this but this is actually insane

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuDYnRSKgb4&ab_channel=Ermz

obviously the simulation isn't a good example, but if you read up on the Ralf Schumacher stint at Austria it's just mad

If you took an F2004 with modern slicks and a current F1 driver you're looking at lap times maybe even 5s faster than what modern F1 cars can do

of course you'll blow up the engine and use 2 million gallons of gas in the process but it would be entertaining to watch

[severe knoll]

so basically, speedrunning

[lapis tusk]

someone has died from cardiac arrest in an f1 car

[silent heron]

What??? Who?

[lapis tusk]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1345091/Driver-died-of-heart-attack-before-crash.html

[graceful sun]

Maas if that counts when he got hit by the spring

[silent heron]

Honestly my first statement was intended with passing out because of G forces through corners. Now though thanks to everyone for the info

[lapis tusk]

f1 g-forces are not enough to knock you out, but it does sometimes makes you lose color vision (temporarily).

you lose color vision at 4 Gs

[silent heron]

like it greys out?

[edgy anchor]

F1 G-Force won't ever be enough because it's only lateral (side-to-side) and usually that's not a significant force on the body. The tricky one is Vertical G which'd be on banked corners, which the bois at Texas in 2001 found out in the CART IndyCars of the time

Only a few of the young guys had no effects at all, most of them started to lose colour, some of them blacked out and woke up with their muscle memory taking them through the turn

And then Big Mo (mauricio Gugelmin) who was head of the drivers association just passed out and the car crashed in T1 and carried him all along the backstretch into T2

[short ether]

Military pilots are taught to squeeze their abdomen to keep the blood from draining into the lower body, of course they also have partial pressure suits, but do F1 drivers squeeze their abdomen? Seems like the sort of thing Angela would be advising Lewis.

[wild epoch]

Lateral Gs wont cause you to black out like vertical Gs would, plus the Gs in general arent sustained for more than like a second or two at a time for the most part so their seating position and physical fitness levels protect them for the most part

[sweet tree]

I love that this convo is still going on lmao @silent heron

[silent heron]

Lol

[civic fern]

would anyone happen to know what the rear wing angles are on 2017-2021 F1 cars?

[ripe ibex]

can someone explain this to me?

like what are the advantages of hamilton rear wing

and russells?

[delicate kayak]

Hamilton has more downforce than Russell

Hamilton is faster in corners and Russell in straights

[vocal quartz]

Yeah

The more upright shape

[sweet tree]

why does russell have a gurney flap but lewis doesnt

[vocal quartz]

Of hamiltons means that he has more down force

[vocal quartz]

What is a gurney flap?

[sweet tree]

it's at the tip of the wing

it helps produce more downforce

Russell has it on his wing

but Lewis doesn't

look at the dark line at the top of russell's wing

that's where it is

[vocal quartz]

Ahhhh that

Probably because lewis's design is already producing quite a lot of downforce

[sweet tree]

fair

[vocal quartz]

And brazil has some twisty stuff so he needs downforce

[sweet tree]

that's kinda what i was thinking but wasnt sure

[vocal quartz]

that is why Russel has it (my prediction)

[sweet tree]

yeah i agree

[civic fern]

i think it's just preference tbh

generally when you compare laps between Lewis and George across multiple tracks this season, Lewis 1) runs slightly lower downforce and 2) goes through corners using a higher gear

George would go through a turn in 4th, Lewis will do it in 5th

those have generally been the biggest differences between their laps

[sweet tree]

wow i should pay more attention to that stuff

[wild epoch]

How come KMags radio always makes him sound like a Nintendo 64 character? something with the car?

[misty fjord]

😵‍💫

[sweet tree]

Yeah lewis didn't want it

the gurney

[tall wyvern]

gurney flaps are only really effective at high lift coefficients anyway, otherwise they add too much drag

[edgy anchor]

them speedway wings dawg

[acoustic prawn]

Hey fellows, can you help me out?

I am trying to find the official document listing the series that grant Super License points.

So far unsuccessfully.

[sweet tree]

high lift coefficients?

[edgy anchor]

downforce = negative Lift

[silent heron]

I could find how many points are granted based on category and position, on Wikipedia. Not the official document though.

[sweet tree]

oh right

[fringe prawn]

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/appendix_l_-_reference_for_super_licence_points_-_2019.pdf
Page 45

[barren pawn]

I have a question. I know that the brake line which holds brake fluid goes from the master cylinder through the suspension to reach the caliper. My question is, when a F1 car crashes and the suspension breaks how does brake fluid not leak all over the track? Or does it?

[sweet tree]

I feel like the brake line goes through where the wheel tether is

[crimson lotus]

Hello, tomorow I will go karting on my local track for the first time. Have you got any tips for me? (Can send the track layout if needed)

[sweet tree]

Fucking send it

don't slam the brakes

if they're anything like mine they will lock and you'll sbin

how fast are the karts?

[crimson lotus]

That is all i got from the site

[sweet tree]

wtf

this is an indoor track i assume

[crimson lotus]

Yes

[sweet tree]

i've only been to outdoor ones

how fast are the karts?

[crimson lotus]

They got a whole page about the carts but nothing about the speed

*karts

[sweet tree]

well mainly don't crash into a wall : )

[crimson lotus]

Okay

I will try

[vague apex]

theyre not gonna be that fast

maybe 20mph tops

[short ether]

hey that kinda looks like a track

[plush panther]

Follow the racing line, don’t be an asshole to other drivers, don’t spin, be observant (both ahead and behind)

That’s all I can really say

Oh and have fun!

[vague kiln]

Aerodynamic for mercedes Benz 😁

[zinc bison]

I've seen nothing about next years cars, what is going to change?

[fervent timber]

Is there a technical reason as to why the Ferraris make a high-pitched noise that the others don’t, or is it just the drivers screaming when the pitwall fucks them over

[vagrant wind]

Hello, I'm not sure if this is the right channel to ask but I'm curious what is that whining sound on Carlos Sainz's on-board. Is it the turbo or the sequential gearbox?

[sweet tree]

I think that might be the turbo

actually idk

[ancient fiber]

the high pitched sound is only in Carlos's engine and not charles this is mainly due to the positioning of mic on the car

[ancient fiber]

It is actually turbo but as I mentioned above the mic placement is a bit different for Carlos

[leaden hill]

Anybody know what the late 70s/early 80s F1 cars were built out of?

like chassis material and body material

[edgy anchor]

The continuous one that'll keep going up despite changing gears will be the Differential Gears

The other whines that go up with engine speed will be a mix of the engine gears, electric motors and gearbox gears

[silent heron]

Hey! I'm doing my extended essay at IB (basically a 4000 word research paper) on aerodynamic devices in f1 and how they affect lift and drag coefficients. Are there any good f1 databases, and I mean even dating back to the 2000s f1 cars, about coefficients of drag and lift of those cars?

Also, if you have any suggestions on good websites that I could use that would be appreciated.

[edgy anchor]

Aluminium Honeycomb monocoque with Fibreglass bodies

Until the MP4/1

[leaden hill]

ah so it was aluminum

[edgy anchor]

https://silodrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/Ferrari-126-C2-Formula-1-Car-Monocoque-Side.jpg

Yeah buddy

The Italians it seems were late

Hence the uh... Less than stellar driver statistics

[civic fern]

how long do you have?

[true pendant]

why do f2 cars spit fire from exhaust but f1 cars dont

[edgy anchor]

F1 cars have fuel saving criteria so they most likely cut fuel from off-Throttle as the MGU-H can handle anti-lag instead

F2 cars are larger engined, have unassisted turbos, and spec fuel systems so they probably just dump it

[vagrant wind]

Copy, understood. Thank you!

[primal patrol]

so basically F2 cars use classy ak47 antilag and f1 cars use fancy zoomer antilag

is that right

[edgy anchor]

You could put it like that, yea

[silent heron]

I think until September

So a whole year

[deep geyser]

Yooo what happened to lewis??

I heard he had some technical issue

[final dust]

Gearbox failed

[rigid thorn]

still crazy how it was the only mercedes technical issue this year

testament to how reliable that W13 is

[deep geyser]

Hm

[paper wing]

Congrats @deep geyser, you're now on lap 10

[amber kraken]

I need some clarifications here. Were the Renault RS19 and RS20 quite similar to the Red Bulls in terms of set up and drivability to let Danny Ric perform sort of decently, compared to the "tricky to drive" 2021 McLaren MCL35

[short ether]

Yes

[severe knoll]

to be fair, renault kinda prioritized ricc because... he's ricc. they probably had it similar to red bull tbh. but for mclaren he was just coming in, and since lando is a rookie, mclaren priority was on lando... the car as far as i know was more suited to lando than ricc

that's the long way of saying yes

[next prairie]

Probably wrong channel to ask, but anyone know where all the data generated in Formula 1 is stored? in a database or?

[civic fern]

ngl i miss Renault now

somehow

[dim bronze]

anything from the FIA/F1 media is most likely in AWS server stores, whereas each team will have their own server storage providers, like redbull has the Oracle cloud stack for storage

[gilded wave]

if i want to go more in depth on how an f1 car works (aero, mguh,mguk,etc), what would you guys recommend?

[deft burrow]

Uh, get into contact with some engineers

[primal patrol]

buy an F1 team

or binge watch chainbear's videos, latter's the slightly more reasonable idea

[civic fern]

Formula Student lol

Formula SAE if you're in US

[sinful ginkgo]

The

[plush meteor]

Is there any list of wind tunnel time allocations for 2023?

[deft burrow]

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2022_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_5_-_2022-03-15.pdf

Page 88 has the allocation per position and hours on each run

[plush meteor]

awesome, thank you

[unreal pivot]

I'm not a smart one when it comes to this but won't this cause lots of drag?

[edgy anchor]

I hope so so they don't use it

[glacial patrol]

Why

They would only use it for wet races from what i understand

they are already slow

Would make wet racing actually possible

[merry delta]

yeah, wet setups already are high downforce

and a way to allow for better wet racing sounds good to me

[sweet tree]

im sure they wont look taht bad

[glacial patrol]

apperance is not important, the racing is 😁

[sweet tree]

viewers say otherwise

customer is always right

https://tenor.com/view/smiley-face-hehehe-gif-23219644

[glacial patrol]

[jagged horizon]

Except the customer in this case isn't the viewer. It is the sponsors who want the cars on track and showing off their logos. If F1 had the viewers as top priority we would still have v10's

[sweet tree]

ok

[plush panther]

Interesting… I hate it yet I love it

[civic fern]

i mean, its a wet race

you're not going to see lap record breaking pace anyway

if adding mountains of drag means an actual race happens then it's whatever, better than the alternative

assuming the wheel covers are an add on and not going to be permanently part of the chassis

[unreal pivot]

Apparently the fia was looking into having them mandate at designated wet races to be permanent in the future

[tall wyvern]

No it would reduce drag a lot

[vocal quartz]

No it would actually reduce drag

Because it is on a smooth surface

So the air flows better

And it is a circular shape is very aerodynamically efficient because it is closer to a teardrop

[vocal quartz]

And a teardrop is the most aerodynamic shape

This is what I think

[unreal pivot]

Wow

[tall wyvern]

Not exactly but good effort, they inject momentum into the separated area behind the tyre so reducing pressure drag (same thing bargeboards/plates did in old cars)

[fringe hull]

, wheel covers

[weary gulch]

BTW

Is Ferrari running a conjoined turbo this year or a split turbo?

[glacial patrol]

conjoined

[nocturne obsidian]

It would be good if they made something that could be added onto the cars and adjusted that lowers speed but increases downforce

[vocal quartz]

Ah ok

[modest gust]

U guys have wallpapers of seb vettle last race in portrait pls

[final dust]

Is there any official documents about the FIA circuit grading? Like how wide, long the track needs to be, etc... I cant find them anywhere

Im searching for grade 3 specifically, but anything is better than nothing

[sweet tree]

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/circuits_fia20200302.pdf

im just too good

[final dust]

no, i mean the regulations, not the list of tracks that have a certain grade

[sweet tree]

https://www.fia.com/circuit-list-requirements-circuit-drawing-0

this i guess

[final dust]

I want to design a street circuit, but i dont know if the road is long or wide enough for it, so i need some data about the minimum width and length of the fia grade 3 circuits

[sweet tree]

yeah i couldnt find anything either

does it have to be grade 3?

[final dust]

well it would be the best but anything is better than nothing

bc formula e races on grade 3 tracks

[sweet tree]

ah you want to make it for formula e

[final dust]

nvm, found it

https://www.fiakarting.com/sites/default/files/2021-01/7.1%2B7.2_Prépa RCIRC 2021.pdf

CIK-FIA track homologation rules

[sweet tree]

nice

[short ether]

Wait

MP4/6 suspension

Rockers look interlinked.

And there isn’t any anti roll bar

Also, if I remember, a lot of teams ran a monoshock.

Anyone have further information?

[edgy anchor]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/01/a7/4f/01a74ffd20d0ab2b13c751e314563a01.jpg

https://cdn-3.motorsport.com/images/mgl/0RrW7kB0/s8/ferrari-f92a-mono-shock-1.jpg

So from what I can see there, the are the tie rods linked to a centre single or pair of torsi9n bars

With the Shock handling heave

Which isn't too far off what we have now, just less compact length ways

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rWmfIejou48/WkV9UbifT7I/AAAAAAAAB4U/i3-9gw2g3j4Nucikn-sCgR-O_cy3S6YwwCLcBGAs/s1600/FR2.0FrontMonoShock.PNG

[unreal pivot]

Is this a new or old front wing for alpine?

[sweet tree]

old

actually that looks like the show car

[naive elm]

it is

99% sure that it is the show car

[short ether]

Thanks a lot.

[short ether]

What about the anti roll bar?
I don’t see it. When were ARBs even introduced?

[edgy anchor]

Oh ARB's were way before this

Just I don't think these had them

[short ether]

Ok

Non F1. But what are those cylindrical pieces next to each fluid reservoir?

.

[short ether]

https://twitter.com/beerusuuuuh/status/1599085689429102592?s=46&t=3eAKZIQaMfhBghUziWsckA

hamza 🦁 (@beerusuuuuh)

Honda engine 2018 combustion development - Yasuaki Asaki.

Upper: Pre-chamber TJI
[RA617H～RA618H Spec.2]
Lower: Rapid Combustion (pre-chamber + partial HCCI self-ignition) [RA618H Spec.3～]
#TechTalk #F1

Twitter · Dec 3, 2022, 4:58 PM

[primal patrol]

blinker fluid canisters

[short ether]

What’s the blue bar behind the cylinder reservoirs

[primal patrol]

flux capacitors

[edgy anchor]

That looks like a Heave damper

[inner root]

Whats the major difference on the Merc sidepods and RB sidepods?

[silent heron]

everything 💀

[merry delta]

^

the similarities are that they are on F1 cars and that they are sidepods

[silent heron]

yeah narrow the question down please.

Anyways I have a question. Is there any database that has old (even from the 90's) F1 cars lift and drag coefficients?

[tall wyvern]

No

[short ether]

Does Honda cylinder deactivation make the car difficult to drive?

[edgy anchor]

What does this question mean? What they look like, or what they're for?

[stark adder]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJlCrmUdP4I&ab_channel=yelistener

[plush panther]

Woah! Way more going on in there than I thought!

[hot cargo]

I dare you to watch Matt amys

I think that's how you spell his name

[balmy mica]

Hey everyone,

I'm doing a math exploration based upon the optimal race strategy to finish the race in the fastest time possible. I have taken into consideration tyre degradation rate, fuel load, and the type of tire. Also taken into consideration the race where there are no safety cars and DNFs. What other factors can I take into account and what math could I use to analyse it?

[final dust]

dry wheather and optimal tyre and track surface temp, and the length of a track too

[little osprey]

That there are no fights

[silent heron]

Nice

[viscid shoal]

track evolution, characteristics of the track (straights, sorts of corners), is it all hotlaps, lockups

some of these you can simply ignore by simulating that you're the only car on track achieving an optimal lap everytime

dunno if thats what you are aiming for tho

[primal patrol]

Giorgio Piola🐐

[proud root]

i didnt know that the entire vehicle telemetry is transmitted using the camera head

[dusty walrus]

I have a question. I'm writing an essey and I chose the topic of the "evolution" of the DRS. Anyone got some usefull information regarding that? Anything works, pictures, any websites, old videos and any documents you've got. Thanks in advance 🙂

[zinc smelt]

If you doing research about that, you should start at the F-duct

https://www.youtube.com/@Driver61/videos

[craggy moon]

maybe the start of active areo in the first place

then work up to its use in f1

[hot cargo]

Maybe the start of engineering

[flint yoke]

Why does F1 use a halo instead of a closed cabin? Isn’t a closed cabin supposed to be safer?

[viral trellis]

But it would be a lot harder to implement that into formula one

The driver's have tested closed cockpit and the drivers were not a fan of the closed cockpit

A canopy would also need to be cleaned and visibility would be a huge issue

And it would affect lots of the aerodynamics already put in place by the halo. Additionally getting out and moving around in an F1 car would be a lot harder with a canopy since formula one cars are really tight inside

And if we mean completely closed like an LMP car would be totally unsafe

They have doors which can be taken off Incase of an emergency

If formula 1 had those, they would be trapped inside if something was blocking the top or the car was flipped over. doors would be most likely out of the question.

Also it would add a ton of weight and inconvenience and would completely ruin the aerodynamics of a formula one car. And F1 cockpits are already hot enough, so it would be bad to close them

A lot of points not formatted very well but I hope you get the point

[lavish kelp]

Halo is safer.

We would have lost Zhou during the British GP had there been a closed cabin instead of a Halo
The later can withstand 15 times the load of the car

^ "Load"= the static load

The only problem in Halo is the field of vision

It's too less

[deft burrow]

Would we have lost Zhou if it was a closed cabin? We certainly wouldn't have had a roll hoop failure in that case, and closed cabin cars use roll bars

[lavish kelp]

I don't think I'm wrong if I say roll hoop saved Zhou that day

[flint yoke]

What happened to Zhou exactly? I’m kinda new to F1 and don’t know the incident

Thank you for the explanation. It makes more sense now

[lavish kelp]

https://youtu.be/B2XHq9d4OWI

0:25

[tall wyvern]

The roll hoop collapses

You don’t think closed cockpit cars have roll hoops? That’s what the cockpit is.

[balmy mica]

Mathematically, what factors can I take into account while trying to measure the optimal lap time, and how would I calculate some of them? I'm thinking velocity-time graphs and integrating them to find shortest distance in least time, but what else could I include?

[lavish kelp]

No, closed cabin cars have roll bars

Which was replaced long ago with halo for better cockpit ventilation and safety

[tall wyvern]

What do you think a roll hoop is? It’s the same thing

[lavish kelp]

F1 engineers are not dumb enough to have replaced one with another when they're "the same thing"

[tall wyvern]

Please show me these closed cockpit f1 cars

[lavish kelp]

https://youtu.be/71xGZ2_6wUY

Watch this video from Nov 21 instead

Nov 2021*

[tall wyvern]

Not wasting my time watching that, you said they ‘replaced’ closed cabins with halos (lol)

[lavish kelp]

They didn't?

According to you halos were added over closed cabinet then? 😂

If not "replaced"

[tall wyvern]

Are you talking about aero screens..? That’s not a closed cockpit, and there’s still a roll hoop

[rigid thorn]

the roll hoop broke on impact

so it was actually the halo that saved him

[sweet tree]

bruh what

How can you even argue about that lol

[weary thicket]

Why didn’t they do like indy car witch is having the windshield and halo bar

[deft burrow]

That comes with its own set of difficulties

and since indycar has a standardized chassis everyone must use, it's easier to homologate the airflow tubes and air ducts for the drivers

[lavish kelp]

^

[edgy anchor]

Overhead intakes

[upper ivy]

Also at the time of the decision, the Aeroscreen didnt pass the necessary crash tests

[civic fern]

this was the other idea

[sweet tree]

wtf

[undone pilot]

ew.

[primal patrol]

yeah I'm glad the halo was chosen

[plush panther]

This just ain’t it

As much as the halo looks a bit wonky

My god the aeroscreen looks shit on the F1 cars

It looks good on the indycars

But definitely not on the F1 cars

[upper ivy]

Honestly Im sure we'd have gotten used to any of the options

Well except this one maybe

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/648225957907398656/1040411247260221500/image.png

But this early concept for the shield looked pretty good IMO

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/news/main_image/unnamed.png

[primal patrol]

how many variations of these wacky head protection device prototypes did they make

[upper ivy]

• Red Bull's aeroscreen

and in 2011 they also did some crash tests with an actual jet fighter canopy

https://youtu.be/8GSmNuaNGI8?t=71

there are additional pictures of some of the tests they did with the more wacky designs in this article: https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/auto_14.pdf#page=12&zoom=100,-62,706

[weary gulch]

https://youtu.be/xRtjeWsIscc

[plush panther]

This would be cool

[modern nimbus]

https://youtu.be/JGjuGo_xZtU?t=39 Why does the RB18 has such a strange steering wheel in this video?

[edgy anchor]

Usually teams don't like showing their actual steering wheels because they're ten times the price of the sim ones

[modern nimbus]

I guess you're right. Or maybe it's some sort of dev wheel they use while building the car? Any way, I think it's quite interesting that they use this one, since it doesn't even come close to the real one. It's a totally different shape and layout.

it definitely looks way cheaper.

[fallen tulip]

especially since that is one of the original show cars and not the actual rb18

[brave field]

Just a fake one with maybe a working screen

[zinc bison]

can a team lie about FIA orders to a driver to placate them? ie if a driver cut a chicane against their teammate and the real FIA gave no penalty, but the team radios that "The FIA says give the place back"?

[primal patrol]

even if it's not illegal then it would cause more harm and good

[edgy anchor]

Why do they need to say that rather than just give that back please

[zinc bison]

I just figure that the team saying give it back might hurt the relationship with the driver but id the FIA says it then it wont hurt the relationship

the thought spawned from Checo vs jenson in monaco 2013

[mild iron]

How was this filmed

or how in general are helmet cams filmed

and is there any way you could do this in karting for example

[stark adder]

can be something in the corner like this, or other people will use a cambox meca

[small rivet]

DRS will be removed for 2023 right?

[primal patrol]

what

[stark adder]

no?

[deft burrow]

No.

It won’t be removed for the foreseeable future.

[sweet tree]

bro read all the UU sources

[stark adder]

DRS was to be considered removed in the future, but it was nothing official

[true pendant]

Whats the point of the titanium block that sparks under the car

[primal patrol]

the FIA checks it to make sure teams arent running too much downforce

[true pendant]

so they check both the plank and the titanium

[sweet tree]

it looks cool

[fringe hull]

If any time soon DRS can be removed in 2026

Well

actually not DRS removed

rather changed

I think Ross Brawn said active aero is considered for the near future

[amber kraken]

Some people debate about this but who actually had the highest revving unrestricted V8 engine in the 2006 season? Some say it was the Cosworth used by Williams while others say it was the Mercedes V8 used by McLaren

Not that these high revving engines actually helped both Williams and McLaren with performances that year

[edgy anchor]

https://youtu.be/Rdfd3VBlaE8

I mean you can see it here that Williams actually got there at race weekends

I'm surprised BMW isn't in that fight

[lapis tusk]

it was actually renault. at 20500 RPM

[edgy anchor]

How? Renault have never been the big revvers

[severe knoll]

lmfao what 💀

[edgy anchor]

Yeah B

Oneumatic Valves

[amber kraken]

You know, I never noticed that the RB18 had a slight high rake angle. It's not noticeable like on the RB16 and RB16B but they say that the rear of the RB18 is raised around 20 millimetres higher than the front

[sweet tree]

yeah

tbh i like they way the rake looks on the previous gen

but on these cars i prefer them flat

[tall wyvern]

Ideally you want a degree or so of negative rake to counteract boundary layer growth under the floor

[vague apex]

@tall wyvern are you familiar with 2 stroke design and physics?

[unique parcel]

im confused about when and where brake migration is something youd want to change so much and why

[paper wing]

Congrats @unique parcel, you're now on lap 5

[unique parcel]

if anyone knows about this sort of thing,

what situations (corners?) would a driver change bmig and for what reasons?

I have an understanding of the principle but im having trouble putting the concept together in my head

oh and one small thing, what are the the advantages of having a diff that isnt just open?

[edgy anchor]

It allows to control understeer as an open diff will always just put power to path of least resistance

[unique parcel]

so if im getting this right, it will give some stability in the right situations?

[edgy anchor]

Yes, in cornering with an open diff there's a likelyhood all power will be routed to one wheel, and it won't be the one with grip

[finite lodge]

Biasing to the front causes fronts to lock up first which causes a more understeery car

[unique parcel]

I mean brake migration

Not balance

[finite lodge]

It causes the brake bias to change as the brake pressure increases so they can use it to turn the car sharper as they get into the and during the corner

Or less sharp depending on the driver

[unique parcel]

@finite lodge I mean, in what ways does it do this

[finite lodge]

They bias to the front initially then slowly move it rearward to shift load more rearwards

Depends on corners as well

[thorny prawn]

I have a question: can a driver serve a drive-through or a stop-and-go penalty during a Safety or a Virtual Safety Car?

[coral glade]

Nope

[vague apex]

When you approach the corner and start to brake, the weight pushes towards the front wheels so you want more braking up front.
As you let off the brake and start the turn, you want the brakes to shift towards the middle (rear). This will allow the front tires to do more of the turning work.
Tires have a limited amount of grip, so whatever grip is being used to turn the vehicle, can't be used for braking anymore.

[sweet tree]

This is why we trailbrake?

[vague apex]

Yes, its a factor in trailbraking as well by keeping the weight up front

[hot ridge]

I think so

[stark adder]

could be wrong, but doesnt having a helmet above the halo kind of miss the point of having a halo? (photo: Daniel Coyle)

[vague apex]

only thing hitting the driver's head would be a tire maybe

The helmet really isnt above the halo

[stark adder]

yeah i figured the roll hoop is kind of a backup, i guess it's only important when the roll hoop fails

persay silverstone '22

[deft burrow]

The roll hoop is the primary roll device, you only need to be within the bounds of the hoop when you get your seat fitting, you know those videos where you see the driver get in and they run this big measuring beam from the roll hoop down? Halo is the secondary roll device

[stark adder]

ah i see

thanks for being smart

[deft burrow]

Bad photo but oh well

[stark adder]

interesting

[true pendant]

when the car is on the grid before formation lap. there are those blowers they put in the air pods

is it to cool the engine or to warm the engine

[red basin]

To warm

[true pendant]

but the leaf blowers on the brake discs and pads is to cool them?

[onyx wagon]

I don't think so?

[true pendant]

everytime a car comes in the pit from the track the mechanics rush to put on those leaf blowers

[edgy anchor]

The blowers on the sidepods are to cool them, as engines idle and the radiators don't have their own fans

On the brake ducts, they're also to cool the rotors down

[true pendant]

the rotors are at risk of bending when hot?

[true pendant]

During gridwalk the engines are on idle?

[edgy anchor]

Less that and more that the heat soak of the brakes will toast up the rims with none of the rapid air cooling it down, which in turn will bake the tyre carcasses which makes things annoying if they want to take the wheels off but not rapidly like with a pitstop

[true pendant]

oh makes sense

[balmy mica]

Hi there, I am doing my my school research paper based upon who took Turn 21 in Abu Dhabi 2021 better out of Hamilton and Verstappen looking at their telemetry. I plotted their velocity-time graphs and found various things such as when their acceleration was minimum before going into the turn, also finding who covered more distance in a given amount of time, and also I determined the racing line radius. I have a few questions

1. What exactly would determining the racing line radius help me for? How helpful is it? I found it in terms of inner radius, outer radius, and the angle formed. I just wanted some insight to gain additional knowledge regarding this.

2. What could be possible factors I have not taken into account while judging who took the Turn better? Basically, what weaknesses lie in there?

3. Finding when they hit minimum acceleration.....exactly how is this helping me? Because the turn starts at 1.6 seconds and I found out that Verstappen hit minimum acceleration at 0.64s and Hamilton at 0.59s. I judged through this that Hamilton had more time to accelerate meaning he took the turn better but is this enough justification and what weaknesses may lie in this inference?

[short ether]

How good will the new wind tunnel make the McLaren? (If 2024 development starts on them being the 5th fastest car)

[carmine wharf]

I don’t see how a new wind tunnel makes a difference

other than convenience

a wind tunnel yields the same result unless its faulty

[carmine wharf]

hate to break it to u but there is no turn 21 💀

on wait there is

I was looking at the old layout

my bad

no wait hang on a minute

2021 had 16 corners

[carmine wharf]

variation in racing line means variation in distance covered and how quickly u get on the power as well as how late u have to brake

tyre deg is a big weakness in ur experiment

there will always be a difference because both were on different strategies

actually now that I think of it u can’t really determine who took the corner better unless u consider lap times with the same tyre life, compound and fuel loads

But I doubt anybody will look close enough to find the fuel loads part

[deft burrow]

It will certainly make things easier. It saves them the trip to Toyota's wind tunnel in Germany, and it'll also be quicker/more efficient for the team to do their job with everything being in the UK

So you save some resources from having to not make a trip to another country to test parts or full concepts

[unreal pivot]

How does the fia monitor how long teams use the wind tunnel

[primal patrol]

i have no idea

not a bit

[topaz basin]

They prob ahve a monitor or a guy who watches it

[oak ocean]

hasnt sum of abu dhabi been removed

[zinc bison]

Why was the 2020 Eifel GP not called the 2020 German GP?

[short ether]

Can someone explain to me how the transmission works in a formula 1 car?

[balmy mica]

Were they? It was qualifying

[carmine wharf]

u failed to mention that 😔

but there is still no turn 21

so

16 wud be the same thing tho

[upper ivy]

because the AvD holds the rights to that name; but the 2020 race was held by the ADAC

[edgy anchor]

https://images.hgmsites.net/hug/inside-a-formula-1-car-transmission_100690594_h.jpg

Top : Barrel

Middle: Output Shaft
Bottom: Input Shaft

The barrel has for each fork a track which shofts the fork from middle to left/right, these are controlled by Hydraulic/Pneumatic pressure to dictate where in rotation it is

The forks force Dogteeth rings hard, square teeth instead of a gradual cone to synchronise that connect each gear pair to the output shaft, as those dogteeth rings spin fixed to the output shaft, and force whatever gear is selected to spin with the shafts

https://www.formula1-dictionary.net/Images/gearbox_sequential_animation.gif

Here we go

Albeit a violent and arguably crude technique, the rapid response means very little downtime for engines to be not doing work, and the cutting of throttle/blipping it, as well as Clutch inout during these shifts are done via electronics as part of the shift

[craggy moon]

what was mercedes brake magic?

[coral glade]

A way of moving brake bias back and forth to heat the tires and brakes up

Iirc

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.tech-tuesday-what-is-the-magic-brake-setting-that-cost-hamilton-in-baku-and.79Mw4XSrxksy7jen3CE8FX.html

Nvm it was just full front bias

[craggy moon]

so it rapidly changed the brake pressure on the front brakes?

so heat them and the tires?

[coral glade]

Essentially

[stark adder]

yeah basically just a quick setting to set it super high in the front

[amber kraken]

And lets not forget, Lewis wasn't the only one that had issues with the Magic Button

Apparently George during his" debut" for Mercedes at Bahrain back in 2020 had overshot and clipped the jack man during one of his pitstops due to him accidentally pressing the Magic

[carmine wharf]

can't say their related

george was still being guided around what to do on the steering wheel and where over the radio

whatever the case

they were both unrelated accidents

[latent shoal]

Bro lost a race because of essentially a keybind

[vivid pine]

imagine an f1 steering wheel keyboard

a sim wheel that is a keyboard with handles on both sides and a screen straight down the middle

space key also split

[sweet tree]

lol keyboard with force feedback

that'd be the chunkiest keyboard

[eager cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/kimi-raikkonen-f1-gif-21833616

Was there any reasoning for Kimi doing that

Like saving tire wear

Or was it just purely “not wanting to”

[primal patrol]

https://tenor.com/view/kimi-kimi-cahd-kimi-chad-kimi-raikkonen-chad-no-idea-gif-21642108

[upper ivy]

His tyres maybe didnt need more warming up at that moment

[tacit hamlet]

Kimmi was having a drink at that moment

[amber kraken]

You guys reckon that the pre-2016 cars had the turning radius/turning circles to avoid the wall like what happened to Lewis at Imola back in 2021?

Because I know that Lewis did light up the rears in an attempt to avoid the wall but due to his car being longer than, lets say the modern V10 and V8 era cars, he couldn't quite get the angle he needed to turn

Does weight also have something to do with it?

[sweet tree]

I think it is just the fact that the cars are longer

just less rotation

[craggy moon]

is there any rule stating that ballast in the has to be solid

[fallow pivot]

any aero engineers

[tall wyvern]

Why?

[vague apex]

Guessing not

[tall wyvern]

Oh sorry, no haha, why do you ask?

[nimble marten]

he might have pushed too hard, the surface temps would have sky rocketed, so he was just not weaving at that straight, pretty sure he did weave after that

[tall wyvern]

Google aero map

[craggy moon]

The telemetry thing?

[pearl lava]

The telemetry thing.

[short ether]

i actually managed to do it :)

i used tableu to do it

[craggy moon]

what are the rules surrounding ballast?

[plush meteor]

https://vxtwitter.com/MarkLaneF1/status/1617632513207459841

since the helmet cam is an option for every driver this year, how long do you think before we get stabilized helmet cam video for broadcast?

[ashen briar]

Any updates on the spray reduction stuff?

[stark adder]

not that i know of

[onyx python]

There was the idea of wheel arches

[short ether]

does any body have more info about ground efect couse i want to do a school project on it

[craggy moon]

its all about trapping air under the car and using the car like a reverse wing

its the same concept for normal wings but just the whole car

[short ether]

ok thx man

[craggy moon]

id start in the 80s

with sideskirts

[silent heron]

If it's a big project I suggest you buy a book on aerodynamics and/or look up data and graphs on underfloor and ground effect.

More simply, an f1 car has like these tunnels on its floor which are shaped like an upside down wing if viewed from the side. As the car gets closer to the ground, you can almost think of the air getting squeezed more and accelerating. If the air moves faster the internal pressure decreases. This means that the higher pressure above the car will be pushing the car down.

More complicated:
The mass flow rate equation is ṁ = V × A × ρ . ṁ is mass flow rate and it's constant, V is velocity, A is area and ρ is density. The density of air is always the same. As the area decreases, the velocity has to increase.

Bernoulli's equation is p + 1/2ρV² + ρgh = constant . p is pressure, ρ is density, V is velocity, g is acceleration due to gravity 9.81m/s², and h is height.
Basically the height change is very tiny, so ρgh is almost the same. The velocity, from earlier increases which means 1/2ρV² increases. This means p (pressure) has to decrease.

[short ether]

One question how do you know this stuff so well couse Jesus Christ

Also Thank you very much

[silent heron]

Honestly, I might've made some mistakes so I suggest you look up the equations and explanations on the internet, or wait for Prophet to come online here when he has time.
I know this stuff "well" because I'm doing a school project on this aswell and I want to become an engineer. Thanks for the compliment

Prophet = Beam wing

[short ether]

Nice man keep up the good work and I know one day you will become a engineer

I believe in you man!

[silent heron]

haha thanks

[short ether]

I mean I got like 4 months for this project so I should be fine

[fervent timber]

Does anyone here have experience with engineering in motorsport? Looking for the sort of qualifications I should be aiming at

[tall wyvern]

No you nailed it 🙂 I will add four things:

• you mean static pressure, not internal pressure. p is static pressure , 1/2 * rho * V^2 is dynamic pressure (or Q). The combination together is called ‘total pressure’ or ‘stagnation pressure’.
• technically density doesn’t actually stay the same, you can treat it as incompressible up to about a third of the speed of sound, but compressibility could be a consideration in the tunnels.
• Bernoulli’s equation is technically not enough to describe the flow, because it assumes inviscid, steady and incompressible flow. Under the floor none of these are true, because it’s vortex dominated. However, the general principle of faster air = lower pressure is true.
• vortices have a very low pressure in the core, and ‘attach’ a flow to the floor roof, which sucks it down.

[silent heron]

Thank you for the corrections

[tall wyvern]

Not so much corrections as additions/clarifications 🙂

[tall wyvern]

Doubly impressive if you’re still in school!! You’re on the right path for sure.

[jagged horizon]

What are peoples predictions on teams keeping the split turbo setup in '26? I think that they will but the big benefit of housing the mguh is lost. Might go back to a conventional style turbo mounted where??

[short ether]

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/10d2ml5/ive_decoded_porsches_cryptic_instagram_post_it/

[craggy moon]

no way

they would have said something

how did he decipher that that was even a person

let alone what person

[short ether]

It kinda looks like him

[craggy moon]

not really

and who is to say that williams isnt joining fe with porsche?

and a Volkswagen team is already joining

[short ether]

It does

Gulf and Porsche do have a history together this could also explain the shakeup at Williams…

[upper ivy]

Thats long been debunked though hasnt it? All that message was about was that Porsche now has one instsgram page for their entire motorsport branch...

[short ether]

Never seen it be debunked before

[barren pawn]

Do F1 cars use timing belts or timing chain? Or neither

[edgy anchor]

https://external-preview.redd.it/GNHmTgFuCMLWvcqamyFp8PLOqEqknpljDHrU8pEIfBo.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=b7f7082fb93a95d7a922f27226fcef402ed1a08c

Gears.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E7pGIUlWQAQu6W_?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[barren pawn]

Is that because timing belts or timing chains can’t endure that many rpm?

[edgy anchor]

They theoretically could, I guess... Alfa Romeo and Renault used them when getting initially into the V10 game

But with slapping chains/belts you could have issues with the tolerances, where your cam timing could become unstable with Piston:Valve contact

Two of these gears I think will also have their own harmonic dampers

[barren pawn]

I just thought of this, because the brake line runes through the suspension to get to the brake caliper. When a driver crashes and the wheel comes of, does the brake line break and leak brake fluid?

[zinc smelt]

interesting "dent" i would say

[craggy moon]

strange

[weary thicket]

Maybe some new regs or upgrade

[craggy moon]

The ridge is interesting as well

[zinc bison]

One thing I forgot about last year, Sauber started using their own gearboxes. How did that pan out for them?

[topaz basin]

Intresting that the drivers backs dont get very hot from the trapped air

From the back of the seats

[mild shuttle]

They probably have some sort of heatshield

[upper ivy]

I think this "firewall" basically acts like that

though the things between engine and driver probably already act as bit of an insulation against the heat

if you have a look here; all the parts that get very hot are a good bit behind the driver https://preview.redd.it/3jgt82g0pq781.jpg?auto=webp&s=db78f7a2d268e4a7a9a4a932c35a5a55e57e5061

[mild shuttle]

Yeah i figured

[final dust]

If every driver is gonna get an eye cam, then on f1tv do we get an option to change to the t-cam, or we are gonna have access only for the helmet cam?

[upper ivy]

probably not? Even now we can't switch between different onboard cams on the same car

[deft burrow]

As far as I understand, there is a limited amount of bandwidth for the onboards, so we can only see what they pick on the live television. All the cameras do record, so if anyone at the F1TV crew want to show the helmet cam of lando norris at a specific time frame, I think they can just pull that out and use it for whatever they need it for

[edgy anchor]

The Things
My brother that is a Fuel Cell

[upper ivy]

the entire space?

[edgy anchor]

That entire beige is the Fuel cell, yes

https://scarbsf1.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/sf1_atl_tank.jpg

The ECU in the slot under the seat/tank

[upper ivy]

oh 😅

well

I guess it's still true that that shouldn't be hot under usual circumstances

[edgy anchor]

There have been a couple cases where drivers retire due to it being too hot under the seat tho

https://s3-us-west-1.amazonaws.com/hmt-forum/alfa_romeo_formula_one_car_cutaway4_fullsize.jpg

Here we are

[sweet tree]

what is the fuel cell made out of?

it looks like cardboard

those "layers" look flimsy

[deft burrow]

think its still kevlar

[sweet tree]

ah ok nvm then

[edgy anchor]

It's like a weird Kevlar Zylon thing that has to be setup in the tub because the plate underneath has a port that isn't as big as the back itself

[sweet tree]

woah

[nimble marten]

Kevlar plus reinforced leather

[craggy moon]

it do look like cardboard tho

[sweet tree]

fr

[nimble marten]

lmfao

[upper ivy]

leather??

[nimble marten]

yes

[dusty walrus]

Hello Guys. For my research paper I wanted to build a Drag Reduction System as a model. My resources are wood, nails, some arduino stuff like motors and more, but I need some instructions or a building plan. Could you help me?

[tall wyvern]

1. Get wood
2. Get nails
3. Attach wood to nails so you have two endplates with a nearly horizontal piece of wood between them, and then one angled piece of the wood above that.
4. Program arduino so it flips the upper piece of wood up when you press a button.

[dusty walrus]

If I can't do it with the Arduino, would there be a way to build it without the Arduino?

[final dust]

Strings attached to the top part of the wing

[tall wyvern]

I’m sure you can do it with an arduino, it’s extremely easy, and motor + button is basic. I guarantee you can find a tutorial where somebody has done it. Failing that get chatgpt to do it lol.

[fair heath]

alfa has kept its blade hoop for this year

[sweet tree]

MMMMM

FIRE

RWETWERANHGIWRGNAWE'RTGER

GQAWE

[fair heath]

it has also merged both RB and ferraris sidepod philosophy

[short ether]

The whole back of the car is basically the RB18

Except for the flore

[short ether]

☠️

[carmine wharf]

wasn’t there some change made in the regs made against that’s after silverstone?

[silent heron]

What are all those floor steps useful for?

[final dust]

If you look at the roll hoop here, you can see, its slightly taller than the new one, plus it doesnt have a "step" in it

[upper ivy]

frankly I don't really the the difference

I mean, the airbox looks different, yes

but the actual rollover structure looks pretty much the same to me

[coral glade]

That's a fake floor

Real one will be revealed at testing

[fair heath]

its stronger now

[fair heath]

yes its more rounded

so it doesnt dig in like at silverstone

[amber kraken]

Wonder why the new Sauber/Alfa's sidepod floors are like this?

[deft burrow]

Probably to throw off people. I wouldn't read into it much, they used a serrated floor for last years reveal

[coral glade]

^^

[deft burrow]

Not sure why it even had to be changed anyway

[coral glade]

Zhous crash

There are new roll hoop regulations as a result of it

It has to be beefed up

[deft burrow]

Not sure why beefing up the roll hoop structure would affect Alfa Romeo's airbox design

[carmine wharf]

no I think it was smthng to do with a limit on how flat or pointed it can be

coz in the event of a crash like that a flat or extremely pointed roll hoop isn’t as efficient

as we saw

so I expect change from Ferrari

[deft burrow]

What I saw was a roll hoop failure, either through means of the FIA not building it strong enough for the cars, or a bonding issue. I cannot possibly see how the shape of an airbox would have really any effect in the roll hoops rigidity, it hit the asphalt pretty much flat when he flipped

[carmine wharf]

not the rigidity of the hoop

oh shit

i thought the roll hoop served the purpose of bringing the car back upright in case it was upside down

my bad

[deft burrow]

roll hoop makes sure you dont die

then you have the halo which is the secondary roll device

[tepid python]

As a newer fan, should I know of any major tech changes for the 2023 seasons? I haven’t seen anything so far.

[lost ice]

How much do you know about 2022 cars?

[tepid python]

Not much either but if you mentioned specific parts I could probably understand

[lost ice]

Ok so in 2022 we got the new generation of cars that were originally intended for 2021. With the new regulations ground effect cars were brought back. While many people were worried that the new regulations would make the cars look the same, that did not happen. One main thing that was different were the side pods. As the season went on teams started to notice what side pod designs were good and what were bad, and the teams with bad designs started to “copy” the better ones. With the cars this year we can probably expect more similar designs. Also at the beginning of last season everyone was introduced to porpoising, which was a side result of the ground effect aspect of the car. The cars would bounce up and down which could result in driver head injuries, so this year the bottom of the floor has been raised by 15mm to completely stop the problem. Also on the topic of safety there are new larger mirrors this season so that drivers can have more visibility behind them.

If I missed anything someone can say more

There is also some new regulations for the roll hoop after Zhou’s crash

[tepid python]

Very interesting, I mostly get it. Thank you :)

[final dust]

What brought you into the world of f1?

[tepid python]

My friend started sharing his clips of the F1 game and I started playing the game too, watched a few races and many of the clips and baddabing baddaboom, I think F1 is awesome.

[tall wyvern]

The floor edge is 15mm higher, but the diffuser throat is 10mm higher. The floors are also just over 40% stiffer than last year too.

Those are the main changes.

Also, porpoising isn’t purely aerodynamic. Last year they banned inerters, which are a suspension component which removes the natural frequencies of the car. Without the inerters, and with the super low, stiff cars, they bounce.

[storm bridge]

anybody know why F1 cars don't have windows like attached to the halo? I think they'd be even more safer so that basically nothing can get into the driver seat and also they'd improve aerodynamics too

[unreal pivot]

You mean like this?

Pretty sure it’s not as strong as the halo or something

[sweet tree]

i mean

technically it has a halo

It has deflected wheels before

so I think it is as strong

[edgy anchor]

Indycar's execution is using the Halo with a screen on top, however F1 didn't test them with the centre pillar, which didn't give it as much strength, and F1 unfortunately doesn't wanna change using over top engine intakes, which the screen washes airflow over

[deft burrow]

Nor does F1 need a windscreen, and no one wants to deal with the airflow complications it brings for the drivers

[vestal depot]

I mean they had to add cooling hoses because Indycar drivers got too hot under there which inevitably adds more weight

[silent heron]

“They’d improve aerodynamics” is a whole new discussion. Just because something looks cool and has a shape that looks smooth doesn’t mean it improves the aerodynamics.

[tall wyvern]

I mean, it would (still don’t want them though)

[silent heron]

How though?

[tall wyvern]

No separation and recirculating in the cockpit

[storm bridge]

the wind going into the cockpit creates more drag than it just flowing over the car even tho it prob doesn't make too much difference

[sweet tree]

Are lighter cars safer than heavier cars?

[tall wyvern]

Depends what and where the weight is

[vestal depot]

Prototype racing is a perfect analogy, open cars were popular for a while but as the late 2000s and early 2010s progressed more switched to closed designs as the better aerodynamics countered the additional weight

[tall wyvern]

That’s more the wheels than the cockpit

[sweet tree]

shit idk then

[clever elbow]

Anyone having a clue on what the sharkfin gap on the car is for?

[dark onyx]

Idk prob aerodynamics

[unreal pivot]

They ran out of money can couldn’t fill it in

[merry delta]

they did something like this last year to have an extra exit for the cooling

[clever elbow]

Ah ok

[ruby charm]

Sf23 vs W13 illegal Wing, difference?

[fallen tulip]

the difference is that the ferrari isn't designed to last years spec, the language that (ambiguously) said supports must be primarily structural/measurement and not for aero from then has been removed for this year
now they must only be a form of structural connection with no limit to aero effects

[pearl lava]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/why-ferrari-can-run-the-front-wing-design-that-mercedes-could-not/10432014/

[ruby charm]

Oh ok

[fair heath]

ferrari has a hidden duct

[plush panther]

😳

Interesting

[silent heron]

Wow

They’re not connected to each other

I don’t think the one under is only for cooling purposes

Might go straight to the rear of the car if that’s allowed

And idk the one on top looks like it’s split into two parts coming from the sidepod and somewhere from the front

But the air that’s coming from the front I doubt is coming from the front wing’s hole, but maybe is being picked up along the front wing possibly from under?

[silent heron]

maybe this is where it comes out from

[gilded wave]

can someone explain what this gap in the halo does aero wise?

like how does it help?

[silent heron]

"The winglets ... help to control the airflow over the safety device, ensuring the flow remains attached, whilst conditioning and improving said flow to the rear of the car." https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mercedes-hungarian-gp-upgrade-package/10345212/#gal-10345212-m0-mercedes-w13-front-wing-detail-63946027

it's extra structure which helps the air flow follow the shape of the halo more rather than without the extra structure

[gilded wave]

thanks

[unreal delta]

https://twitter.com/ScarbsTech/status/1625574161450950658/photo/1

Craig Scarborough (@ScarbsTech)

Is it a type of S-duct? Taking the inlet flow through to the bathtub exit.
This could clean up the boundary layer along side of the chassis before the inlet.
and/or
Keep the airflow attached to the bodywork along the interface of the bath tub.
#SF23 #F1 #F1TECH

Twitter · Feb 14, 2023, 7:14 PM

S duct?

hmm

[silent heron]

don't think it's that shape

I thought it was from here

to

and this jut from sidepod or under the driver's feet

like this one (his response)

[tall wyvern]

cleaning up the boundary layer

What

[silent heron]

I think he means: if there’s a boundary layer along the bodywork (before the duct) which is 5cm thick, the inlet “takes away” 4 cm of it.

[silent heron]

Purely guessing what he means and guessing the values. I don’t even know if it’s possible

Red is the inlet, green is the boundary layer and purple is the bodywork

I hope this makes it a bit clearer

[tall wyvern]

You can make a boundary layer thinner, yes, but you can’t ‘clean it up’, whatever that means.

[gilded wave]

back end of the car is tighter than last year or same?

[storm bridge]

does anybody know why Mercedes' 1954 and 1955 constructors championship wins dont count?

[solid holly]

back then constructors championship wasn't there

it was started in 1958

[storm bridge]

oh yeah true

so the drivers titles from 1954 and 1955 count right?

so they have 9 drivers champion wins in total

[solid holly]

yes but not the constructors championship

[storm bridge]

cool

[solid holly]

yes

[short ether]

Can porpoising affect/drop engine RPMs, and to an extreme change the engine harmonic balance?

(I.e. is porpoising a factor in poor straight line speed)

[flint sorrel]

I’m a newer f1 fan, so can someone tell me how these front wings are different from the normal ones?

[sweet tree]

shit

some complicated ahh shit

I think that they created vortices differently or something

Where as the 2022 reg front wings don't really create vortices

i think

[sweet tree]

um

mercedes w14

😎

[silent heron]

Lots of outwash (wings and shapes pointing outwards) and lots of vorticity (y250) from the flat standard plane in the center connecting to the wing elements

Something along these lines

[sweet tree]

yea

[gilded wave]

fr tho wtf is that body

its like they smushed a main sidepod to make 2 mini sidepods lmao

prolly generates hella downforce tho, so 🤷‍♂️

[sweet tree]

it does look a bit odd ngl

[fair heath]

lmao we though last year was extreme sidepods

[gilded wave]

merc doubled down

so its either gonna be fast af or slow

[flint sorrel]

Right…aight :)

[sweet tree]

lol

[sweet tree]

There are plenty of videos that would help

they helped me at least

start with the simplified versions and work your way up to the more complex explanations

KYLE.ENGINEERS is a good channel

he has some basics and complexity

[silent heron]

Looks pretty sick from this view. It looks like the exhaust cover aims directly to the beam wing

And they get the flow to follow that kind of tube

[sweet tree]

mhm

some blown diffuser shit

[silent heron]

like this kind of

also coming from the side up maybe, but that's hard

[silent heron]

kind of, but rather than blown, just concentrated flow

[ripe linden]

old question but why did aston martin's rear wing upgrade get banned last year? i thought the upgrade they made didn't disrupt the airflow to cars behind so how did it fail regulations?

[silent heron]

it's basically an end plate which causes turbulent airflow to cars behind

more turbulent than without, and obviously brings a performance advantage aswell.

[mint tinsel]

It's a bit tighter. I watched a video of aero analysos

I got amazed

https://youtu.be/vA8xxmEyOqI

Watch this

[sweet tree]

yes

[gilded wave]

thanks for this

[languid meteor]

What does Anti-Rollbar mean?

[jovial delta]

I saw a lot of poeple asking if the W14 is all in carbon (so without any painting) or full painted

Actually its à mix of both
Blue is real carbon
And cyan is painting

[upper ivy]

honestly at that point just leave it all carbon lmao

[ancient fiber]

Can kyle stop copying me lol

[edgy anchor]

You can see the separation line between paint and carbon on the engine cover

[rose oak]

Anyone see any other cars with this aggressive body work coming off of suspension arms? It's like a mini-cape/collar

It looks like the rest of the field has the traditional flat area here, last's years merc was a bit shaped but nothing like this

[silent heron]

Is it trying to direct the flow down towards the tunnels?

I have no idea what the reason for it is

[craggy moon]

cooling maybe

[silent heron]

Anyways no, nowhere else in the field I’ve seen that

[silent heron]

In what way?

[craggy moon]

idk

a guess

[rose oak]

My guess it's less about directing flow and more about creating a bit of low pressure behind it to help pull the energized air off of the front wing back down, seems too small to really push air out passed the pods/inlet

plus with all of the drag from the suspension/steering arm it's probably more about conditioning the air coming from that area? Usually teams just try to minimize the connection points to minimize how much air is disturbed, Merc is embracing the drag thats already present?

[craggy moon]

it might be gaining a larger surface area for air to get sucked under for more downforce

like directing air to the underfloor

[rose oak]

yeah like an upper t-tray kind of

hard to say if with the pictures we have at least, cant tell how far down it extends

I also think its likely ZeroPod specific, other teams don't want to mess with any of the air around there

It's actually pretty aggressive, it looks like it's ~10cm of area extended out from the body of the car, pointing down directly into the floor scoop like @craggy moon thougt

[jovial delta]

It was introduced in silverstone Last season

To stop porpoising

It affects airflow

[rose oak]

Good eye, was able to spot it on the F1TV Feed, harder to see with the silver I guess! Looks like they've made it even more aggressive this year

[silent heron]

so are you saying it is or is not directing air to the tunnels (floor)

what I meant was this

not to shed it around the sidepods and to the mid floor

but just straight down

so basically in red is the airflow and then the curved shape is this cape kind of thind.

I don't see the flow on top staying attached at all, maybe it just goes towards the cooling intake. WHile the flow under is forced towards the floor if that is in any way possible

looks like it could cause some lift in that area, but minor compared to the benefits gained by the downforce from the floor I imagine

[fervent timber]

why are the noses on the cars a bit different this year? merc’s kinda reminds me of the old 90s williams

[silent heron]

alpine with an insane solution

[silent heron]

idk what you mean, it's just the rules I think

they have to shape it like this

they can't go for something old style

I mean 2010s style

[fervent timber]

idk i am a noob

[silent heron]

don't say that

it's basically the rules say you mst have that kind of nose basically. There's no more y250 (picture) and I think they have less freedom on the nose shape because of this.

[ripe linden]

can we get some analysis on alpine? from the pics it looks like there's a small reservoir on the top of the sidepod. but idk i might just be tripping

[silent heron]

In my opinion, looks like a shitbox

[tall wyvern]

The opposite, you’re now allowed to develop between y=0 and y=250, whereas before that region was banned, hence the vortex on the free tip.

[gilded wave]

i thought that the connectors on the front wing arent allowed to be used for aero purposes?

hv they removed that rule or smtg?

[placid lynx]

they edited the wording now its allowed

[silent heron]

Ohhhh alright thanks

[delicate kayak]

Can you explain why ?

[silent heron]

that tunnel-like thing looks crazy

it's either super good or super bad

[short ether]

Is that s duct for cooling or aero

Did Merc change only their front suspension or rear also?

[deft burrow]

They changed a lot of things. Things they won't specify

[gilded wave]

ah k, thanks

[ocean plume]

Bad pic quality but are these wide sidepod inlets? Probably this has been talked about already

[fallen tulip]

that looks just to be the shadow from their sidepod 'wing', the real width of the inlet can be seen on the left inbetween the wishbones

[ocean plume]

Ok makes sense Ty

[craggy moon]

are there any rules surrounding how the ballast can be and where it is in the car?

[stray wraith]

Theyre a different shape this year

https://youtu.be/Jg1koBb03yY

[lusty pond]

seems like they're trying to direct the air to push down the sides so as not to get the same effects as last year's porpoising.

[short sentinel]

Do the Mercs still have the porpoising issue? Other than that what are some other exciting changes to the new cars?

[gilded wave]

dont know yet, we'll prolly find out in bahrain

new bodywork changes for merc

[wispy wren]

I’d honestly be surprised if it still does. We don’t really know anything about the new cars though. We will see next week

[edgy anchor]

It looks mostly good but some merc video could hint they're too stubborn for their own good and might still have it

[deft burrow]

Although I find that video to be worthless. You can't draw conclusions from a showcase video, certainly not porpoising.

[gilded wave]

i thought that was just bumpy track?

[latent shoal]

Someone other than me can explain porposing much better but that was not it

[edgy anchor]

Well that's why I'm saying it looks mostly good because he hits a bump it oscillates and then it stops as he brakes

[merry delta]

fascinating

[severe knoll]

i'm a little confused

[merry delta]

the connectors of the wings to the endplates are of a similar solution to merc

[quick plover]

is there a possibility F1 could transition into other types of renewable energy other than Electric (Because we have Formula E) and Biofuel like the one they're working on now? Question?
Like a hydrogen combustion engine like what Toyota is doing currently

[clever bolt]

allinol fuel sounds pretty promising tbh

[little osprey]

W

That was the cars 2 fuel right?

[silent heron]

Yes

[modest solstice]

Just tryna make more outwash

Whats is interesting is this

Maybe

[silent heron]

.

[silent heron]

.

[silent heron]

Certainly

[tall wyvern]

Not just outwash. In yaw you lose a lot of downforce, this can help decrease it by powering up the pressure side and the wingtip vortex. As well as generally powering up the vortex in general, since the vortex rolls off the wing and backwards, which is force enhancing

[iron shale]

Compared to render

[edgy anchor]

Yes, tho F1 is late to the game like usual, they're just committing to Ethanol useage which while being produced from Gen2/3 means to not consume food sources, it's not the most optimised fuel

Hence why I think they're doing an energy limit as opposed to a fuel weight limit, to open up the bracket for different fuel sources

[quick plover]

I see

[edgy anchor]

I'd personally love to see different sources as I'm a big engine and biofuel nut but the Industry doesn't seem like the biggest fan, neither do alot of fans who're knowledgeable which is a shame

[frozen cradle]

If biofuels or hydrogen or whatever can bring back the V10s, sign me up!

[severe knoll]

yes please

[gilded wave]

hell yea

[edgy anchor]

that's the idea

[ancient scaffold]

Hello, what’s so special about the McLaren floor

Apparently they are trying to hide it in videos

It looks like it has a hole in it, and the front of the floor is sort of a lump instead of it being flat but idk why that’s special.

[vale iron]

Surely couldn’t be a hole could it?

If that’s coming off the inlet to the floor the flow would travelling down and powering the diffuser but would that really be that beneficial

[coral glade]

Yeah it's blurred out 🤔

[ancient scaffold]

If it isn’t then what else can it be?

[silent heron]

Just looks like the shadow tbf

[coral glade]

It's a hole for sure @ancient scaffold

Very circular too

[brave field]

Yeah

[coral glade]

This was lowkey a hint

The bump

[silent heron]

I doubt it to be a hole

How is it even allowed in the regulations

When intersected with any X or Y plane it must produce a single section which is continuous, closed and with all parts of the section visible from either above or below.

Well it would not be closed if it’s a hole

Plus why would they even have a hole there, aerodynamically speaking?

[edgy anchor]

https://youtu.be/W8UiE7yvO_M

This is why we like high profiles bwoah

[short ether]

Very similar

[ancient scaffold]

Thought so

[primal patrol]

there is a hole in your right wing!

[ripe linden]

a hole in your wing? could be more likely than you think

[silent heron]

I'm ready to bet it's not a hole

it's the shadow from the sun directly above

[coral glade]

It looks eerily circular either way

From all angles

[ripe linden]

idk looks like a hole to me

wonder if they're trying to find a way within the rules or classify it as part of the sidepod instead of the floor?

[silent heron]

We will see easily tomorrow whether it’s a hole or not

[craggy moon]

interesting

[ripe linden]

from that angle doesn't really look like it

oh well

[edgy anchor]

It's the mandatory impact structure innit?

[merry delta]

that floor edge is insane

[wicked fiber]

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGTR/status/1628637898210742272?s=20

Mercedes///AMG #F1 Habercisi (@MercedesAMGTR)

Mercedes bu alanı bir Lego gibi tamamen değiştirilebilir hale getirdi. 💥

#F1Testing

Twitter · Feb 23, 2023, 6:08 AM