f1-technical

[primal patrol]

probably to do with how thicc the post-2016 cars are

for another analogy the grilles on the new M4 look better on the racecar gt3 variant because of the wider bodykit and other racecar aesthetics

hey this again

[short ether]

Pre 22 end plates you could generate vortices off the edge

[edgy anchor]

https://twitter.com/nicolasf1i/status/1550821402353221634?s=21&t=D3TTiufJxX9ry5SiF0FNZg

nicolas carpentiers (@NicolasF1i)

Pics of the RE22 powering the @AlpineF1Team A522. First engine made in Viry that has a split assembly: compressor at the front and turbo at the back. Note the water to air intercooler as on the Mercedes but positioned higher. The inlet manifolds are really snaked tracts.

Likes

129

Twitter · Jul 23, 2022, 12:33 PM

Here's some relative

[unborn comet]

what do the orange barriers mean??

[fluid verge]

[granite tundra]

?

[worldly ferry]

what is that big pipe they put on the exhaust in the pit?

[meager ridge]

An exhaust to get fumes out the garage

[green marlin]

How do one get rid of the porpoising?
Like, what have the teams done to get rid of it?

[merry delta]

there's aerodynamic and suspension things that need to be done to prevent porpoising

I don't know the full extent of such, but those are the two main things that have to be accounted for

[green marlin]

What can you do aerodynamically to prevent it?

[merry delta]

porpoising comes from suction pulling the floor to the ground and creating downforce to the point of stalling, so you likely can create holes or other things in the floor to prevent such. RB added a skate to the bottom of their floor to prevent the floor from going too low as well

[green marlin]

Yeah, I have understood what porpoising is.

But, creating a hole in the floor, wouldn't that make them lose downforce?

[dense cypress]

Guys idk if its the right channel to ask but can u tell me like at the world record lap at monaco for example u can take the lap from the qualifiing or just from the race

[upper ivy]

lap record: fastest lap set during a race
track record: fastest lap set in any session (usually including test sessions or specific record runs outside of racing weekends)

[merry delta]

yes, but porpoising can come from the suction (downforce) produced by the floor, and so you'd want to have less downforce to prevent porpoising

sometimes, the floor edges can bend as well, only sealing the floor even better, furthering the effect

[green marlin]

Hmmm, yeah that's a dilemma then, haha.

[edgy anchor]

https://www.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/comments/tqtbkc/detailed_english_translation_of_hondas_history_of/

The Cursed component

https://preview.redd.it/ql9ubie4m9q81.jpg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22ce8a4ab191599601b1da42d42c30909b9eab02

https://preview.redd.it/nxk76me4m9q81.jpg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9eb612d8cb44146ba5b555e31d2d079036a8fcc

The Blessed one

[graceful sun]

Porsche taking notes

Wait isn’t it going to be removed for 2026

[edgy anchor]

Hopefully

[short ether]

Could someone point out the ICE?

It would seem strange for them to mount it that high up?

[short ether]

Wdym

[edgy anchor]

The MGU-H

[short ether]

Honda had terrible MGUH?

[edgy anchor]

What'd that high up is the Intake Plenum/Intercooler box

The engine is below it, beside the exhaust manifold

[short ether]

Ok

[edgy anchor]

Also chief Im talking about the H in general

[short ether]

The MGUK is connected directly to the crank, but on the side?

It spins the crank?

[short ether]

I missed the part where there is a ‘detailed English translation’

[edgy anchor]

My brother in Christ there is literally English text on the images of the Magazine

[short ether]

Damn

I see it now

Lmao

It’s 2am,

[edgy anchor]

The MGU-K is like a beefy starter motor

It sits on the side of the engine, geared to the Crank

[short ether]

I see

[edgy anchor]

The crank doesn't need it to spin

But an extra 160bhp doesn't hinder it

[short ether]

From those pics it looks like the turbo has gotten a bit larger over the years

Is there a size limit of the turbo?

Hmmm ‘an outside V layout’. Where would it sit?

Split turbo in 2017 it looks like?

Great that Honda share these pics

[edgy anchor]

Inside you mean

[short ether]

Strange

[edgy anchor]

OH

[short ether]

Typo?

[edgy anchor]

https://preview.redd.it/n9bl0qtlewe31.jpg?auto=webp&s=0e364689e67721ffe7790e58b52bfbd0ba1034fb

2015

https://www.racefans.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/honda-ra617h-4.jpg

2018

The Turbine itself, because the turbo itself is longer, has extended beyond the inside of the V

https://cdn-6.motorsport.com/images/mgl/YBeb4xM2/s8/honda-powerunit-2015-2018-1.jpg

[median folio]

Can you ignore Blue Flags if you're aiming for the Fastest Lap or you're forced to abort it? If you get a Time Penalty for ignoring Blue Flags the Fastest lap will be deleted?

[zinc smelt]

i would say it depends. If you are faster than the car that is lapping you, there should be no problem, cause you are not slowing the lapping car down... (in my opinion)

[amber kraken]

Perhaps the one of the most justifiable reasons why backmarkers and midfielders don't outright copy the front runners' designs, unless of course you're Racing Point. Yeah old video I know https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcI8RT3D8e8&ab_channel=WTF1

So I guess Aston Martin copying the Red Bull's sidepod designs really bit them in the arse because I believe they actually went slower than their initial A Spec car when the "Green Bull" first appeared

Also got a question, is AM still getting parts from Mercedes?

[zinc smelt]

in therms of the PU for shure, but gearbox, suspention and so on idk

i dont really think that this is a thing atm, cause all the cars are pretty different

[stray cairn]

i have a quick question

merc had sidepods in barca testing and they were fastest there

why did they remove them when it came to baharain and after

[deft burrow]

pre season testing isn't a good gauge of car performance

however

in the simulations and testing that Mercedes did with the no sidepod concept, it was the fastest car on paper

[stray cairn]

ohhhhhh

[deft burrow]

though that didn't correlate to on track performance and we get the data correlation issues

and you can't exactly switch back to the old car, because that would effectively make all the upgrades you were currently developing useless

[stray cairn]

got it thanks mate

[short ether]

How did they manage to get them in trouble from a brake duct?
From what I know no CAD data was ever shown to the FIA

[graceful sun]

Haas about to bring a white Ferrari to Hungary

[ancient radish]

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/what-racing-point-did-wrong-brake-duct-penalty-explained

This article implies that they were shown the CAD data from both Mercedes and Racing Point

[graceful sun]

Thing is tho they were shown it when it was a legal part

But then the following season it wasn’t legal but they already had seem them

[ancient radish]

Pretty sure the FIA's argument was that since it was not used on predecessor vehicles (prior to the RP20) then it was considered illegal to use

[graceful sun]

Yeah

The rear ones which were an evolution of the merc 2018 ones were legal

Funny how ultimately it cost them 3rd

[short ether]

Are soft tyres done after one quali lap due to thermal degradation or it is ‘wear’?

[short ether]

Thanks

[graceful sun]

Thermal

If another fast lap was done they would overheat and start to melt the surface

[short ether]

I mean just a used set, not 2 consecutive laps.
When they go again at the end of Q1 or first used run at the start of Q3.
They’re usually 5-6 tenths off.

This can’t be thermal

[graceful sun]

If you have done a lap you have already put the tyre through a heat cycle so it’s not going to give the same performance again

Also not always the case that a used set is slower

Carlos for example in one of the qualis was quicker on the used sets than new

[short ether]

So after one lap there’s no actual visual degradation on the tyre

[graceful sun]

Other than the surface layer everything should be similar

[short ether]

Ok thanks

[graceful sun]

Before this year teams if they made it into q3 would have to use the tyre they set their fastest lap with in q2

Those tyres weren’t as good as new but in a race distance they were still good for some long stints

[short ether]

Why do Mercedes take longer to put heat in their tyres/always struggle at the tyres in Monaco?
They’ve had this issue for a while now.
Suspension geometry?

[civic fern]

Ironically they used to have the opposite problem

Where the car could be blisteringly fast over 1 lap and qualify on the front row

But the tires get chewed for breakfast

[rough lava]

How do u different cars have different tyre degradation if they use the same compound

[merry delta]

different car characteristics, different driving styles, and sometimes different strategies

[jaunty surge]

merc bringing an upgrade to hungary right?

[merry delta]

ik that HAAS is, but idk about Merc right now

[deft burrow]

Yea

[trail ruin]

thats only for kmag tho isent it ?

[graceful sun]

Yeah

A white Ferrari

[trail ruin]

if only he got a actual ferrari seat.. imagine

[graceful sun]

He would bottle it

[dim knoll]

Bigger upgrade to spa

[graceful sun]

Merc just seem to be bringing updates every other race

[dim knoll]

And they don’t seem to do much either.

[civic fern]

Some do, some didn’t

Spain definitely did something

As did Silverstone

You look at where the car was in Bahrain, where even Perez and Sainz are way too fast, nowadays the Mercedes is fast enough to fill the gap between VER/LEC and PER/SAI

And both drivers will put it there

[short ether]

ebay is the answer cleearly

then again, haas is red like Ferrari, so its the same thing basically

[amber kraken]

Right so I've seen people going back and forth on the subject about Red Bull, and technically Toro Rosso/AlphaTuari as well, being either a Customer Team, a full Works Team or a "Sudo-Works" Team (Yeah I still don't know what that means) when they officially had Honda badged engines powering their cars. So what was Red Bull Honda classed as? A Customer or a Works team?

[deft burrow]

Red Bull was the works team.

[dim knoll]

One Haas could be 4th best this weekend💀

[civic fern]

Works. Exclusive engine deals are basically the same as works

I.e. McLaren-Mercedes, 1995-2009

Red Bull-Renault, 2010-2015

(Renault sold the works team at the end of 2009, team Enstone was called Lotus and not owned by Renault)

[merry delta]

ah yes, the Ferr-, sorry, I mean HAAS car

[upbeat vector]

that ferrari is looking strangely white today

[copper valley]

New sponsor

[dim knoll]

Hopefully it doesn’t suffer with the same problems.

[short ether]

Has anyone got a link of the official Porsche red bull leaked document

[dim knoll]

The Morocco one?

[jaunty surge]

any pictures of upgrades only seen haas

[dim knoll]

FIA will update the sheet tomorrow but doubt it.

New wings in Hungary

[short ether]

I’ve seen that, are there any others?

[short ether]

Yeah probs, I can’t find the French GP one on the website ffs

Can u help?

🥺

[dim knoll]

Not at the moment.

[dim knoll]

I’ll see if I can find it

[short ether]

Could you direct me to which part of the website, I know wheee the official docs are for the races and quali and stuff but I never see the ‘show and tell’ upgrade document.

[dim knoll]

https://www.fia.com/documents/championships/fia-formula-one-world-championship-14/season/season-2022-2005

Il try find the show and tell one

[short ether]

@dim knoll is it there?

[dim knoll]

I can’t seem to find but I’m looking

[short ether]

Yeah idk

Others also can’t find

[dim knoll]

Apparently it’s for media only and not for the public and fans

[short ether]

O

That’s a shame

[graceful sun]

Thats so stupid

The whole point was so fans could get a better understanding of the technical aspect

I know someone on Twitter or Reddit does make a doc with the info but I don’t know who they are

[dim knoll]

Yeah. Someone in media leaks it but they’re not meant too

[odd thicket]

hungarian-gp; A slightly modified front wing to have as much downforce as possible. this comes with an increased flap just to increase downforce at the front.

[paper wing]

Congrats @odd thicket, you're now on lap 5

[dim knoll]

I like this

[jaunty surge]

no more bmw grill

[short ether]

Looks the same just with more angle

[short ether]

What were they to cool? The cockpit?

[ember relic]

I noticed that Ferrari was sixth on constructers in 2020 why did that happen was that die to the car’s performance or something else?

[short ether]

Their engine was ‘illegal’ in 2019 and mysteriously lost almost 50hp in 2020

[ember relic]

Ahhh I see They basically cheated in 2019 then got punished for having an illegal engine?

[short ether]

Pretty much. Allegedly

[short ether]

They couldn’t run their cheat code in 2020 anymore so was down on power due to not being quick in legal settings

[ember relic]

And that what’s caused them to be so low on constructers that year?

[short ether]

Their engine was slow = slow car. Not a good car. Seb was also really poor that year.

If you watch Spa qualifying 2020 you will see how low on power their car was.

[ember relic]

Okay well thank you for the information

[graceful sun]

Yeah the illegal engine allows them to basically have high drag downforce in 2019 so they were good in the straight and in the corners

But then when it was illegal they were stuck with a car that lacked power and was very draggy while also lacking peak downforce

Also the car was very tail happy and hard to drive

[ember relic]

Well this information has helped me learn something new about the sport

[amber kraken]

And people claimed that the F14T was the worst modern V6 Turbo era car Ferrari has made

At least the SF1000 wasn't proned to both Understeer and Oversteer at the exact same time

I'm still wondering how the hell did the F14T even managed to do that

[merry delta]

average Ferrari aerodynamics

[left surge]

“Aerodynamics are for people that can’t build engines” - Enzo Ferrari

[grave fiber]

https://tenor.com/view/sainz-sainz-jr-f1-formula1-carlos-sainz-gif-22691552

[civic fern]

Shitty aero package resulted in understeer, shitty hybrid system resulted in oversteer

[short ether]

Is getting a job in F1 as an engineer or pit crew member super competitive or is there a large need for engineers and members that the competition to join a team is not extremely tough

[dim knoll]

It’s probably very competitive and not “I’m qualified mechanic”, you most likely start in a pool of people, if your picked go through massive training on your role.

[sudden scroll]

read the channel description

[dim knoll]

Apparently a grey area around the new Aston martin wing this weekend, top one is the new one.

[odd thicket]

The boomerang wing for the halo has made a return for Mercedes.

we have small upgrades mercs

[odd thicket]

All car upgrades brought to Hungary for all teams

[prisma dome]

everyone: one maybe 2 things

haas: change everything!

[dim knoll]

Thank you

[dim knoll]

Least they’re not the first to do this lol, we’ve had Aston Martin, mclaren, Williams now Haas.. anyone else?

[graceful sun]

Where did you get this from?

[odd thicket]

the fia

[dim knoll]

Isn’t it media only document?

[prisma dome]

no its public info

[graceful sun]

The upgrades one isn’t

[odd thicket]

it is

[prisma dome]

I was just joking ofc they made some improvements its not as if they actually changed everything

[graceful sun]

It never shows up for the weekends fia notes

[dim knoll]

Haha I know, I’m just glad Haas wasn’t the first lol

[prisma dome]

why?

[dim knoll]

Because did you see the shit Aston got when they did it💀

[dim knoll]

Nice. Fast Seb please

[stark ember]

Wait so both Alpine and Haas have the same concept as Ferrari now?

[graceful sun]

No

Alpine is a mix of rb and fer

[dim knoll]

HAAS have gained 3 tenths from upgrades apparently

[graceful sun]

Only?

[dim knoll]

Yeah from the chart Sky produce

[rich gust]

Would the FIA ever word the rules so that it must look exactly like how they intended the rear wing to be?

[silent heron]

If they really wanted to do that (they would never) they’d just give the teams a standard car like in f2 or in this case a standard rear wing. Very very very unlikely they’ll do it

[green marlin]

Jesus, look at Ferrari

[dim knoll]

I know right?

[civic fern]

Haas: a new ass car

[short ether]

What part of the website is this from

[potent prism]

hey guys, any idea what are these holes on the nose cone of alpine?

[merry delta]

maybe something to do with a filter but idk

[silent heron]

I've heard from the sky sports f1 Italian commentary that at least for Merc those holes are kinda like tubes that bring air into the cockpit to keep the driver fresh. Last week Merc opened theirs up a bit, so I'm assuming Alpine is doing the same.

[graceful sun]

Holes for driver cooling

• also reduce pressure in that area

[weary thicket]

A mouth to eat air

[short ether]

Does anyone have the technical directive document on vertical oscillations

Is it public?

[upper ivy]

I mean, yes and no, they won't make it a standard part but they could surely add something to the rules that says the endplates may not extend above the actual wing surface
(and I assume they will ban something like this for next year)

[upper ivy]

those documents aren't made available t the public to my knowledge

[rugged sorrel]

anyone know any good places to see telemtry?

[quaint fjord]

how did georges sector times come up green even tho he put in the fastest sector times?

is it because they werent the fastest times of the entire qualifying?

[graceful sun]

None of the sectors were the fastest

Just ver close go the fastest on each one

[short ether]

Anyone got the sector timings of Q3?

I don’t have F1TV

[vale pike]

@short ether you can always check them on the f1 website

but here you go

[short ether]

Oh I didn’t know that, thanks a lot

[vale pike]

yw

[short ether]

I still can’t find sector times 🥲

[vale pike]

oh true

give me a second ill give you them

[graceful sun]

https://images-ext-1.discordapp.net/external/3zzUC1SuNO3bmCYaqxMMXxfIkhzqdKnFAvT5RN3-K-8/https/pbs.twimg.com/media/FY7OGsbXwAAD0ia.png%3Alarge

Best times over the session

Carlos should have had pole

[short ether]

Yeah

[short ether]

🥲

[vale pike]

i thought those were fine

@short ether any specific drivers you want?

[short ether]

Both Ferraris, George and Max please

Q3 runs

[vale pike]

max?

[short ether]

@vale pike

Yeah, just to see how bad the other sectors were

Even if it was 1.3 off

[vale pike]

Sainz
Leclerc

Russel

verstappen

@short ether

[short ether]

Thanks a lot

[vale pike]

you're welcome

[short ether]

Could you also lastly send Sainz first run in Q3? Just to know what his purple sector 2 time was.

[vale pike]

you can see that here

[short ether]

Ah

Ok

[proud pumice]

Does anyone know the min ride height of this generation's cars pls ?

[short ether]

Can you update the specs of current engines within the pool?

[graceful sun]

No

[short ether]

Can u clarify this then?

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/114022/fia-allows-engine-change-under-parc-ferm-rules-after-f1-rule-changes.html

Second to last bullet point

[graceful sun]

If you are under the 3 engine season limit you can change it to a newer one

[short ether]

“An update has been made allowing a Power Unit to be replaced in Parc Fermé with one of the newer specification”

• Does this mean Max, who is using his 2nd PU, can switch to a third PU tomorrow? One which hasn’t been used yet?

[graceful sun]

What I thought you ment was if you use a competent in the pool then could you replace that with a newer version and the answer is no

[graceful sun]

Yes

[short ether]

Mate they haven’t even updated it in the sporting regs

[edgy anchor]

Wdym minimum Ride height?

[short ether]

There’s no minimum as far as I know, the cars have a plank, which is where ride height is measured after a race, and it can’t be worn greater than 1mm.
So as low as you can go.

[coarse badge]

2025 concept????

[vestal depot]

Beautiful renderings

But no closed cockpit

[short ether]

Interesting

[graceful sun]

No not in a million years

2025 cars will basically be the same as what we have but smaller and have active aero that increases drag efficiency on the straights

[frozen plaza]

hey y'all. Can you suggest where i can find technical datasets for each GP this season? Like lap times, average MPHs per lap etc

[frozen plaza]

also not a big fan of this design lol

[jade jewel]

I don’t think they would have glass or plastic in F1 it’s always been open

[dim knoll]

Try here https://www.statsf1.com/en/default.aspx

[sonic inlet]

Do you guys think Hass's update to Kmags car was a flop or might it just be that it aint so god for this type of track

[short ether]

With certain gearbox failures, it is possible that the cassette just jams and stops the crankshaft from spinning?

Which causes the car to not accelerate, or would the crank still be spinning.

[short ether]

I don’t think it’s had enough time to be tested properly yet. We will see in the next few races. It may just be a minor improvement in performance, but better in reliability.

[short ether]

FIA website, then click the Grand Prix, then ‘event/timing information’. There’s also max speeds there.

I don’t know how to get lap by lap sector times though.

[short ether]

Can’t seem to find sector times or speed traps here

[errant plaza]

@graceful blade

[floral bramble]

Hey with the carbon neutral fuel coming, could f1 go back to previous engines like V12, V10 or V8?

[merry delta]

more than likely not, the V6 is currently the consumer relevant type of ICE, so that's likely the engine that'll stick around

[frozen plaza]

thanks!

[sudden scroll]

no, it's not that technical. but you got pole times, fastest laps, lap by lap orders etc. for almost every single race of F1 since 1950.

[bronze sentinel]

Spa is the last track for engine upgrades, right?

[proud pumice]

Ok cheers

I was also looking at the 2022 LMH regs

And all they mentioned was som kind

Of reference plane below the car

[dim knoll]

Yeah it has a lot of info on there

[dim knoll]

No point spamming this. F1 will fix this to happen anyways

[modest gust]

ik

[deft burrow]

Read the channel description

[potent prism]

damn makes sense, tanks a bunch

[river sluice]

I have a kinda hyper specific question. Does anybody know what this element is on the bottom of the nose of this 2016 Mercedes?

Another picture of the other side

It looks like its creating a bit of outwash

[graceful sun]

Looks like a complicated version of the cape that McLaren had

It likely is used to direct air to the floor

[dim knoll]

I still want to know why hard tyres were so poor today??

[deft burrow]

Low track temp

[graceful sun]

Cold track temps ment getting heat into them was hard and also the meds in cooler conditions could just last a lot longer

[tender rapids]

The flight path of the f1 tv helicopter

[dim knoll]

Strange in a sport this complex and advanced they can’t get heat into a tyre

[proud pumice]

Might be an air duct which channels the air around the car

They were perhaps trying to control the airflow on the sides

[sudden scroll]

they're called turning vanes

[proud pumice]

Is the answer then

[proud pumice]

Could it be used theoretically to reduce drag or control the outwash of air behind a diffuser ?

[sudden scroll]

as the name implies, it is there to turn the air that goes through it, so a portion of the air that would go under the car. redirected to the sides (the top surface of the floor, the sidepods..)

[proud pumice]

Right, ok

[river sluice]

i see, thanks!

[short ether]

Zandvoort, second deadline is 1st Sept. First was 1st March.

[graceful sun]

Does anyone have graphic for tyre stint length for each driver

[graceful sun]

Thanks

[dim knoll]

Look at that Leclerc hard stint ffs

[bronze sentinel]

Thank you!

[bronze sentinel]

A bit higher res

[short ether]

How does shutting off sensors in engines solve issues with loss of power? Aren’t the sensors just there to ‘sensor’ things?

[merry delta]

the performance issue doesn't exist if you can't see it 😉

it could be that there is some sort of safety wiring set up with the sensors so that they lower performance to prevent an engine failure if something very off nominal is detected

[hidden flame]

Can anyone explain me what is the diferencial, brake bias and how suspension works? (both for the game, and to acquire knowledge)

(and pin me cuz it's time to sleep here in South America)

[turbid rivet]

demn this channel not for me

[ripe sorrel]

i know teams monitor tire pressure, but can they regulate the pressure in-race?

[proud pumice]

Brake bias allows you to change the amount of braking "force"that gets applied on either the front brakes or the rear brakes

For example : 54%front 46%rear

This element changes on the driving style and or the type of track

It can be changed by the driver during the race using the steering wheel

Hamilton's "magic"switch at the Azerbaijan GP is also an example, the "magic" switch puts most of the force at the front brakes to warm up the front discs, but it resulted in a lock up a few hundred meters later

Putting too much bias at the front can result in oversteer and even the rear "go wild" under braking

Putting most at the rear might see as a solution but

Under braking, the weight shifts due to momentum towards the front

Making it more efficient to have a slightly front bias

Rear bias can result in understeer under braking I think

The differential is way of transmitting
Traction to the road

Open differential : ideal for cornering but not great for straight line traction
Closed differential: *the opposite

If you see it that way

The wheel that has to cover the bigger distance will be given the most torque or more revolutions depending on the type of differential (electronically or mechanically)

Now...

The suspension in formula 1 is a pullrod double wishbone type

Changing the stiffness of the springs will have an influence on how the car will behave on track

Stiffening the suspension would mean that the car would be more responsive on straights , but unstable on bumpy parts of the track more slide prone in corners

Whereas having a softer setup, would make the car less responsive on straights but more stable in the corners

But there's also the anti-roll bar that comes into play

....I gtg have lunch now

[upper ivy]

with front bias the front tyres will lock up first, resulting in understeer. This is in most cases the preferred option because understeer is still a lot more "controlled" than oversteer

[prisma dome]

you mean on the car? no

[short ether]

Teams can’t, they are given min pressures for the weekend. FIA has all the data of temps and pressures of all tyres on and off track.

[proud pumice]

Yes, I agree, but in the case where the car doesn't lock up

#memes-no-ai-will-delete-😡

Or general mate

[proud pumice]

Then there's also the anti roll bar

Now if we put identical cars with same setup with low drag downforce settings, the car with softer suspension would have the most grip

Because the weight shifts to the outside of the corner depending on how is the roll bar set up

But having a soft roll bar setup will mean that the body will roll more than if it was stiff

the disadvantage of having a soft roll bar is weight shifting and a lack of grip in some situations, and the weight shift can increase the tyre wear as a big load is applied on them

It's why, it could be seen as weird as weird for some, that in racing games, I usually couple a stiff anti- roll bar with a soft suspension

Usually, to rise the ride height of car, stiffening up the suspension is a solution

As well

This comes from formula e

But the concept should be the same

When the car goes over a bump, the pushrod pushes against a rocker that connects and exerts the pushrod force on the dampers/springs

These dampers/springs can as you might have guessed be soft to stiff

[proud pumice]

Described up there

There's also the pull rod suspension

Which is some kind of flipped over pushrod scheme(← heavily simplified)

Hopefully that helps, and if I said something wrong , please somebody tell me

[hidden flame]

ohh

Man I understand it now

You explained it easier than what I was expecting

[proud pumice]

But like mentioned by @upper ivy , you go whizz straight on in the case of a lock up

[proud pumice]

Np 👍🏽

BBL must be the brake balance

[deft burrow]

isnt that BBAL

[proud pumice]

Yea ..I forgot the A😩

[somber zephyr]

Hey can anyone explain the benefits of a no pod design? Why has Mercedes locked that in?

Something to do with tire degradation or superior temp generation?

[civic fern]

Less drag

Mainly

Thats probably the single biggest change compared to the traditional sidepod, the much smaller frontal surface area

[short ether]

Guys

If Honda still hasn’t transferred the engine IP to Red Bull yet, meaning that RB can’t open the engine and use it for their development.

Then how do they fix internal engine problems/replace spark plugs etc during a Grand Prix?

Because in parc ferme, teams are allowed to take out spark plugs.

[slender wagon]

Where did you learn this from? I have a book you might like.

[slender wagon]

what do you mean by: it shifts to the outside depending how it's set up?

[hidden flame]

@slender wagon dou you have an online book of the basics of the f1 cars mechanics?

[deft burrow]

Honda does everything related to fitting the engine into the RB chassis, the mechanics can work on the engine as they please throughout the weekend. I'm not sure what you mean by "meaning that RB can’t open the engine and use it for their development." Because engine development is frozen for the next 4 years

[slender wagon]

Not F1 cars, but for race cars in general 🙂

[proud pumice]

Reading ,being obsessed with cars and F1, games, and Adrian Newey's how to build a car

[proud pumice]

If the roll bar is set soft which allows the body to roll even more on a x axis, the weight contained in the body to is in action

Centrifugal force I think

And the faster you go then

The more "weight"is applied on external elements

Such as the tyres

Thus tyre degredation

[slender wagon]

uhh.. what?

Okay let's say my roll bars are set to infinitely stiff vs. incredibly soft. What happens in these scenarios?

[slender wagon]

look up Race Car Design by Derek Seward 🙂

[proud pumice]

Wait wdym by that ? On how the car behaves

[proud pumice]

Cheers👍

[proud pumice]

You found another Bible of Motorsports!!!

[slender wagon]

Nah, the real bible is RCVD by Milliken & Milliken. ;)

[sudden scroll]

rcvd?

[slender wagon]

Race Car Vehicle Dynamics

[proud pumice]

Hehehe

[hidden flame]

I would really like to read it

[sudden scroll]

can you explain why it fits the channel

[bronze sentinel]

I assume the people here would like to drive an F1 car, but if not, my apologies.

I'll delete it.

[sudden scroll]

yes please, this is not the kind of content for this particular channel 🙂

[bronze sentinel]

Sorry.

[short ether]

I mean Honda hasn’t transferred IP, therefore RB can’t look into the engine and use it for their 2026 programme.

[deft burrow]

That would be correct, though that has no bearing on standard operations regarding the engine in a weekend

[short ether]

I see

So RB can open the engine

Going to be difficult to police if they use for development, or is that in data only?

[graceful sun]

Honda taking L in f1 all the time

Porsche gonna come in and get all the information + f1 team in one deal

[limpid ermine]

does anyone know why Honda pulled out of F1? they got a grand opening and grand closing and still dont know why

[edgy anchor]

They Left due to boards not wanting them to be in anymore

Then a change of politicians in company and they have the ability to stay

So that's where the RBPT but still Honda kinda stays in

With HRC on the engine cover

[amber kraken]

You guys reckon that Carlos would had continued on at Imola if he did a J Turn by swinging his steering to the left when he was going backwards in the gravel? There was a possibility that Carlos would have gotten back onto the track had he did a quick J turn at the right time and angle instead of stopping the car and getting beached

[short ether]

Red Bull has announced an extension to their technical support agreement with Honda to the end of 2025

https://twitter.com/redbullracing/status/1554420060176932865

Oracle Red Bull Racing (@redbullracing)

We're delighted to announce an extension to our technical support agreement with @Honda to the end of 2025 🤝 #F1

Likes

21015

Retweets

1800

Twitter · Aug 2, 2022, 10:53 AM

Guys why is this news? Weren’t they always going to provide until 2025

[short ether]

That would be difficult, he went in backwards and lit up the rears

[short ether]

Honda haven’t transferred the IP

[graceful sun]

Not directly but through know how

[short ether]

Yep

[dim bronze]

news as originally planned to have it be changed over to RBPT til 2026, but the Honda deal will strengthen their case for the 2026 engine concessions

so they'll go to 2025 with Honda, 2026 -> with Porsche/RBPT

and still accrue the concessions the engine providers need to still confirm

but the other big thing is, this means RB is doing what they did with Renault before, running one engine but tagging it as another, so rather than Tag Heur, it's now an RBPT tagged Honda Engine

[jaunty surge]

mercedes’ will get more wind tunnel testing correct?

i think that’s the right way to say it

[short ether]

So,
“Honda made the PU, not us (RBPT), so for 2026 can you give us extra dyno time cos we r a ‘new supplier’?” ?

[dim bronze]

pretty much

[short ether]

Do you know rules for new engine suppliers?
What extra stuff to they get
+
Do teams have specific dyno times for their engines, like how they have maximum wind tunnel times?

[short ether]

They labelled it Tag engine? I thought that was just a regular sponsor

[dim bronze]

well no one knows, not even the teams do yet because the 2026 agreement isn't done

also yes, when RB was having a fallout with Renault their engine was officially labelled as Tag Heur

[short ether]

Damn

Lol

I didn’t know that.

[dim bronze]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Bull_RB12

[short ether]

Thanks

[civic fern]

Unless Red Bull sack Perez and just run 1 car for the rest of the season, yes

Based on WCC positions

[edgy anchor]

If he was on the gravel, a J would skew the car sideways so the tyres would dig into the gravel

[amber kraken]

So back last year Ferrari had a couple of redesigns for the SF21, which is an evolution of the SF1000 I might add, such as the sidepods and stuff. But did they had a tweaked SF1000 engine or was the SF21's engine a different Power Unit all together?

[tacit python]

I believe it was the same engine but tweaked as they did use the same car for 2020-2021 as money.

[silent harness]

🤔

[green marlin]

Ye, I think it was the same engine but tweaked.

[ornate hamlet]

they used the same engine from 2020, but they brought the new engine upgrade in Russia which is the one they're using atm

[short ether]

What year was automatic clutch bitepoint find banned?

[amber kraken]

Although not noticeable like the Red Bulls from 2020 and 2021, the Red Bulls in the late V8 era also had a High Rake design. I wonder if the concept was similar to the High Rake designs from 2020/2021 to achieve some downforce, or whatever the High Rake was designed to do

[sudden scroll]

if you have read Adrian Newey’s book, he’s been using high rakes for a long time now, already back in his Williams days.

What do you call concept in that case?

[edgy anchor]

I find it nuts how rake was so core to cars recently to the point where the tub was at a skewed angle to the rest of the body

[lost ice]

what would it take for F1 to race at one of the INDYCAR street circuits?

[deft burrow]

change the whole car completely

[edgy anchor]

Considering they run at Saudu

Probably not alkt

But how dare they commit less than a Minute 20 for lap time

[final dust]

The car is not built for 99% full rev racing, and going all the time full speed. The car would broke down before the end of the race

[upper ivy]

aren't Indycar's street circuits pretty normal racetracks

unless street circuits means ovals?

[sudden scroll]

they're normal street tracks, ig they meant ovals indeed

[short ether]

Why are the new 18” tyre cars more stiffly sprung?

[short ether]

They can do that?

[short ether]

Tracks r too short and probs wouldn’t be up to FIA ‘grade 1’ standards.

[edgy anchor]

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2784/4966/products/DSCF0627_4000x2677_crop_center.jpg?v=1601658794

Lookit the floor angle vs the Tub

[short ether]

Is the lowest part of the floor the bib?

[edgy anchor]

Especially so

https://f1tcdn.net/gallery/var/resizes/2019/redbull-eb15-launch/rb15-012.jpg

Like the tub is flat

[short ether]

Here it’s flat?

[edgy anchor]

Well look

The tub is flat

The floor is raked

[short ether]

I see

[sudden scroll]

does it make the tub uncomfortable that it's angled like that

[edgy anchor]

I assume not

Because the skew upwards means they have a touch more space to work with underneath where there's angle space

Again, assumptions

[amber kraken]

So Mark actually stated that he had snapped his brake pedal in half when trying to, unsuccessfully, avoid the Lotus of Heikki Kovalainen in front of him. Like how strong are the pedals meant to be? Because I find it surprising that Mark actually snapped his brake pedal in half by the force of his own foot

[west flower]

does tyre wear decrease the more the track is rubbered in

[dapper falcon]

I would think so because you pick up rubber but then that could make the tire uneven and then lead to vibrations

[civic fern]

In Newey’s book, he simply made the mistake and didnt pull out early enough from behind the Lotus that had much worse braking distance

[edgy anchor]

I doubt he'd snap it but those Pedals have very little travel but alot of pressure

Because the body recognises force better than location

[true pendant]

hi guys relativly new to f1,

when during practice, the driver comes into the pit, why does the pit crew run towards the wheels and blow it with hairdryer type things

is it a heatgun

[edgy anchor]

They are typically Dry Ice like... Almost Leaf Blowers, to keep temperatures cool for high heat
Inside the wheels having the brakes mean unless they're going at speed where the vent is allowing all the air to rush through, they're insulated essentially by the wheel, and that heat now can have opportunity to soak the wheel/tyres or just itself and start to catch on fire

[paper flame]

Hi hello

I’m still hoping for next years cars to be the same V8 turbo charged as before

And those are not hairdryers they are lag bolt guns so it’s Easter to break of the large nut from the actual frame connected to the tire

Easier

Sorry

[edgy anchor]

... Same V8 Turbocharged as before?

The Only Turbo V8 in F1 was Alfa Romeo's slug from 83-86

[amber kraken]

You guys reckon that this is one of the most plausible ways on how the SF90's engine managed to achieve, pretty much, warp speed on the straights? Since you know, they still haven't disclosed the secrets of the SF90's engine yet. But yeah, trying to figure out when the Fuel Flow Sensor checks the PU's fuel flow is no easy task

[clear vine]

What is break shaping and break migration

[clear vine]

I can’t find the info anywhere

[zinc bison]

BMW had the most powerful V10 engine, how good was their V8?

[civic fern]

Power isnt everything, especially not when determining how good the overall package is

Shockingly enough

The Mercedes V8 was the most powerful but the Renault was more fuel efficient, and therefore could fuel less/go further (before 2010)

And the throttle mapping was miles ahead which complemented the Red Bulls it went in

[prisma dome]

that can be down to the individual driver

[edgy anchor]

The common theory was a controlled Intercooler Leak

Which'd pass a small amount of coolant into the Mix which'd reduce Intake Temps for better compression/Boost if nothing else

[true pendant]

like for real, if they dont put leaf blowers in

[edgy anchor]

There's been a couple of cases of brakes exploding or catching fire

Especially this year, tho rarely in the pits

[spice dune]

guys . were can i find good videos to understand all the technical aspects of f1? also resources , books etc.

[spice spire]

Amogus?

[clear vine]

In Austria Carlos car kept rolling, does f1 not have a similar feature to road cars where putting the car in gear stop the wheels

[brave field]

Chain Bear

[clear vine]

If you need me to rephrase it I can

[bronze jolt]

Normal cars have a handbrake to stop them rolling but f1 cars don’t for some reason

[clear vine]

Yea but as a secondary to the handbreak (which I know f1 doesn’t have) you are supposed to put a car in first with the engine off just in case you have hand break failure

[brave field]

But you would never use the handbrake so

[clear vine]

What?

[brave field]

In an f1 car

[clear vine]

I’m not talking about using a handbreak, I’m asking what systems do formula 1 cars use to stop an immobile car from rolling down a hill

[brave field]

None

[bronze jolt]

that’s why carlos rolled in austria

[clear vine]

So there is no way to stop it rolling?

[brave field]

I dont think so

[clear vine]

That what’s I said at the start

[brave field]

Except braking

[bronze jolt]

yeah ik

[clear vine]

AH OK CUS if you put a road car in first with no engine it don’t move. But I remember that the car kinda needs to be on for the gears to work

[bronze jolt]

being on fire might also not have helped

[clear vine]

Yeah probably@melted the rear breaks ngl

I think I asked yesterday but chat was dead

What is beak shaping

*break

And migration

[edgy anchor]

GrandPrixEngines for websites off the top of my head
B Sport and KYLE.Engineers for Aero

[primal patrol]

brake warming is pretty much lewis' brake magic but brake magic also sets the current ERS mode and charge mode

brake migration is like

uhhh

brake balance but the car adjusts that itself accordingly with braking input

[drowsy rampart]

So this isn't really a "physically technical" discussion I'm having but focused on the WDC. According to my calculations if Charles were to win every race including the sprint in Brazil and get the fastest lap for every single grand prix, and Max were to get P2 in every race from now, Max would still leave Abu Dhabi 7 points ahead in the championship. It should be impossible at this point for Charles to win the championship and to a certain extent I believe it's over, but you can't ever say never in F1 and I believe if Charles can rely on four key factors coming together IMMEDIATELY after the summer break, he might still have a shot at the WDC.

---

1. It is absolutely critical he makes zero mistakes on his end from now until the end of the season; he can't afford to DNF or even compromise any of the eleven races remaining; only consistency and solid performances allowed.

2. Ferrari gets their shit together, stops being a circus act, stops having PU issues for BOTH cars (ties into next point) and makes good strategy calls that get and keep him and Carlos (also leading into the next point) at the top.

3. Paramount Carlos gives his all to support Charles in this second half of the season. It is basically mathematically impossible for him to win the championship now so the focus needs to switch completely to a Valtteri/Checo role. He cannot purposefully beat Leclerc should the opportunity ever present itself as we saw in Silverstone, even if that would benefit the team as a whole. With Checo still in play it's probably safe to say the constructors' championship winner is decided unless the next factor becomes true, and otherwise Ferrari needs to only focus on staying P2. He also MUST defend from Red Bulls and Mercedes to either help Leclerc get back up quicker from a lower position or keep him in the lead/higher position and defend from any lower contenders. If he finds himself leading Leclerc, he needs to back out, period. Next season might be Carlos's, this one isn't anymore.

4. Mercedes somehow comes between a gotten-shit-together Ferrari and Red Bull so that Max finishes lower and even if Hamilton/Russell finish higher than Leclerc, Max is still stopped from getting those vital points. Paramount Mercedes does not surpass Ferrari because otherwise Ferrari and RB and subsequently Max and Charles will finish with very similar points gainings.

Max being inconsistent/getting comparatively poor results isn't a factor as we know how strong and consistent he is this season.

---

I think it's unlikely all four of these happen but I really hope they do as I want a Leclerc victory/Ferrari comeback. Even if Max wins though, he will fully deserve it as he's been absolutely on point this season. As with last year, if Leclerc is somehow in title contention going into the last few races, both contenders will fully deserve the championship.

lmk what you guys think

[bronze jolt]

is perez still in title contention? i know rb will definitely want him to play number 2 driver but he’s only 5 points behind charles so idk if he’s technically still in contention

also mercedes they’re not far off ferrari now

[vital lion]

nah checo isnt even for title contention

[sudden scroll]

he mathematically still is in contention, everyone up till Vettel is.

realistically however, he isn’t in contention unless Max can’t take part in the rest of the season for whatever reason (injury, illness..)

[bronze jolt]

ah ok thanks

[civic fern]

How much easier does 1 DNF for Max make it?

[vernal basalt]

Probably 10% or 5% to see Max out of the race

[civic fern]

Eh

All it takes is a trip to gravel in Spain or another 360 to end in the wall

On a less fortunate day

And its a DNF

[vernal basalt]

I will be realistic, Charles lost the championship already in France

The Red Bull reliability is more strong than Ferrari, but less than Mercedes

So is almost impossible to see Max make a mistakes

[vital lion]

well max cant make mistakes but others on track can

a short view back to past : brazil 2018

and obv there r some unavoidable errors

[drowsy rampart]

yes but the problem is a leclerc dnf is almost certain as well

this is assuming they will both dnf at least once in the next eleven races

and face it, charles will probably have more than max

[drowsy rampart]

no, he’s too far back and they will want to prioritize keeping max in the lead

charles is only theoretically still in title contention because its another team

checo is #2 now

[clear vine]

Theoretically, yes but the way he’d have to do is practically impossible

[pure mural]

why to do donatu need to move your brake bias to the front? shouldnt be just a "work" of throttle?

[edgy anchor]

What does this mean?

[merry delta]

do you mean change front brake bias before braking?

[pure mural]

when u see drivers do a dunat after it u usually see them locking the fronts cos they changed the brake bias to the front in order to help the with the donts

thats at least what ive heard

why

[white sedge]

Who designs the MFD software?

[amber kraken]

Lotus's front exhaust seemed to be a good idea, if it had the right tyres. I think it was the tyres that didn't work with the front exhaust idea, I can't remember

[short ether]

Each team has their own different set of software suppliers. I’m not sure on names of companies.

But they make it themselves mostly

[white sedge]

Like don't FIA make a common software?

Williams MFD looks wierd tbh

[short ether]

Nope

They get help from Magnetti Marelli probably, since they are the official telemetry providers for F1

[short ether]

Guys

Can someone explain technically using physics principles how in 2019 Ric said that the brakes are knife edgy. How are some brakes more edgy than others? It can’t be downforce related.

[formal estuary]

Brakes are very effected by downforce

[prisma dome]

affected*

[lucid island]

hi does anyone know what adr means?

all i could find was "australian design rules" but i dont think that is right 😂

[short ether]

Accident Data Recorder

[jagged perch]

https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl/6AEPyVw6/s1200/red-bull-racing-rb18-beam-wing-1.webp

Redbull Beam wings from the past 13 races

[short ether]

Will a greater electrical emphasis make the 2026 cars lower revving?

Or is the abandonment of the MGUH the only factor

[delicate crystal]

Hello, I want to ask is there anyone here studies IBDP and is now studying in university?

[lucid island]

ah thanks!!

[short ether]

Does this delay relate to how Ferrari in 2019 managed to increase fuel flow?

[lucid island]

i thought they messed with the FFM?

im not sure how to explain that in english tho :/

[edgy anchor]

It'll be down to less fuel, so... Probably the same if not less revs

[short ether]

The starter motor drives an F1 car to over 10,000rpm and they have to heat up the engine. Why doesn’t an F1 car start at 1000-2000rpm?

Is it due to the gaps between the cylinder wall and the piston

[upper ivy]

the document said "same revs" but with a lower fuel flow rate I can't imagine it won't go lower

[edgy anchor]

They don't have enough momentum to idle that low

Also the quicker you can get it started and running, the less time it's creating friction wear as starting is one of the most damaging parts of engine operation

[formal estuary]

Can someone explain how the cars won't be much slower with the new regs?
The engines are losing 200hp but the electric motor is gaining 200hp right sounds good right?

But how will they maintain the energy regeneration with the removal of the mguh while also having to power the electric motor that's 3x as powerful? They still aren't allowing front wheel regen either.

Like are they are gonna strap on huge batteries to last the race or are we gonna have 500hp cars that have a 300hp overtake button? Unless they somehow tripled regen from the rear I don't see how they won't be heavier (bigger batteries) and slower.

Plus they'll sound like dog shit with a lower rev limit

[short ether]

Yeah they sound like they are going to be way slower

They should have went front regen also

Maybe something like active aero makes up part of the gap

Considering they are about the same weight ( 2 kg less) doesn’t appear like the batteries are going to be noticeably bigger

[rancid echo]

I'm really new to the technical side of F1 so this question might be stupid but how is the MGU-K connected to the rear breaking?

[deft burrow]

We are getting 350kw regen
and an increase from 2MJ to 9MJ

So a lot of the wasted energy in the regen is gonna be able to be used now

[median sluice]

hi guys

I find these a little confusing to me

where did those 200kw go

if they are not used to propel the car

the efficiency can't be that low

...or can it?

[edgy anchor]

So it drops when you hit 340 so you don't exceed that speed

It seems they want to hard limit the speed of the cars which sucks

[short ether]

Yeah that really sucks

Not a fan of these regulations at all

[edgy anchor]

They're better than before but that's... Not... Hard

[proud pumice]

It's involved in a brake by wire system

[rancid echo]

so is the brake regenerative?

[short ether]

Yep

[short ether]

The MGU-K is connected by brake by wire, and actually helps slow the car down via electromagnetism.
This is ‘regen’ as the kinetic energy of the wheel is now being transferred into electrical energy for the hybrid unit.

A common misconception is that the MGU-K/H takes heat energy from the brakes.

Guys

For new PU suppliers in 2026, their dyno time is ‘N’.
I don’t understand.

[rancid echo]

ahh gotcha gotcha

so sorta like the regenerative braking on evs

[short ether]

Yes

[short ether]

Do F1 engines have valve overlap?

[short ether]

Is there a direct connection between the MGU-K and MGU-H or does it always have to pass through the ES as an intermediary?

[edgy anchor]

The MGU-H can feed the K directly, yss

And every engine has valve overlap

[short ether]

Thanks @edgy anchor

Btw what is this? It’s from Scarbs Instagram

[edgy anchor]

Thassa Battery dawg

[short ether]

Oh

Damn

That’s huge

[short ether]

Who supplies the bbw actuators?

[proud pumice]

Do you think

Grapheme supercapacitors

[sudden scroll]

what about them

[proud pumice]

Could be an alternative

[proud pumice]

They would perhaps replace the current generation of batterys

[amber kraken]

So there were little-to-no chance that Daniel could have flick spinned his way out of this situation right? And not, you know, reverse into Daniil Kyvat.

You know, to this day, I'm still wondering how the hell did Daniel not see Daniil right behind him when he tried to reverse out

[amber kraken]

Oh yeah, speaking of reversing. How do they engage Reverse Gear? I know some teams, mostly Mercedes in 2019, had to hold down the Neutral button to select Reverse

[deft burrow]

You put the car in neutral and hold your downshift paddle

and then you hope the transmission catches reverse

the purple arrow is pointing at the reverse gear

[zenith pumice]

that is a really small reverse gear, interesting

[sudden scroll]

well, you are unlikely to spend more than 10 seconds using it during a race so.. save da weight 😄

[deft burrow]

As small as they can get it. That being said, often times when you try to put it in reverse, the gear slips and then you gotta repeat the process. Hamilton had to do it like… 3 or 4 times at Imola last year because it wouldn’t go into gear.

[civic fern]

As long as it will go with repeated tries

[short ether]

Will Porsche-RBPT have extra dyno time for the 2026 regs?

Since it’s confirmed they’re a new supplier

And the Honda supply will be until 2026

[upper ivy]

Im surprised those are all straight cut gears

[short ether]

It’s a race car though? Correct my ignorance

Where would the throttle body be located?

[edgy anchor]

Where they've always been

The ITB's breh

[lean tundra]

question

although its called MGU-heat it converts kinetic energy into electrical current right?

[edgy anchor]

It works like a windmill for the Turbo

[lean tundra]

bro

you dont have to dumb it down if im already talking about kinetic energy n shit

furthermore i doubt that windmills are used to power batteries...

[edgy anchor]

Oh bruh I misread your statement entirely

You are correct

[lean tundra]

ok thanks

[edgy anchor]

[sage walrus]

I get the complexity behind the MGU-H but tbh

Couldn't they just make it a standard part?

I know Mercedes and some other manufacturers split the compressor and turbine but still

[deft burrow]

Yes, but they want to be more road relevant

[spiral gyro]

the costs of developing the mguh's too are a key factor in the decision of the removal

[sage walrus]

wouldn't it make it a standard part like the current fuel punp (done to prevent cheating and complications with ethanol) make it cheap(er)

[short ether]

Were rhe F2004 exhaust shaped like this to exploit airflow gases over the beam wing etc?

[nimble marten]

yes

plus lower the area more the pressure

and more pressure under the wing produces more downforce

that's the simplest explanation

[bronze sentinel]

When they had the rainbow tyre system, were all the tyres available on the same weekend?

[warm kelp]

im pretty sure that there were 3 dry compounds chosen for each track just like nowadays

[edgy anchor]

Have the same on the F2002

Adrian wanted to keep diffuser exhausts, hence the single exit beryllium McLarens sounding different, but stuff got too hot

[upper ivy]

3 different types of dry tyres were available each weekend just like now

All that changed is the overall number of types (I think Superhard and Hard were discontinued; since Hard was used like once or twice and Superhard never) and that the colouring red/yellow/white is used every weekend

[bronze sentinel]

Ah neat, thank you!

[wild pasture]

have any of the teams made any major changes for this weekend?

[graceful sun]

Wouldn’t know that until fp1

But expect lots of upgrades

[wild pasture]

ah gotcha - guess im waiting on the selection then

[spiral gyro]

Yeah most teams will bring changes

not sure if its true but heard that redbull will bring a new chassis which is lighter

[terse hamlet]

Mick is getting the Haas upgrade

[scenic sand]

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/alpine-investigating-hydrogen-power-as-f1s-future/10357009/

Your thoughts on this guys?

[graceful sun]

Pipe dream

Hydrogen isn’t the future

Expect f1 to continue with ice with non fossil fuel for a long time

[zinc smelt]

And for oldtimers and general IC-engines

[upper ivy]

Hydrogen ICE? no way lol

If anything, Hydrogen Fuel Cells perhaps, but even those likely would be more relevant for trucks than normal passenger cars

I have recently wondered actually if a series hybrid system would work for F1? As in, have a high-power ICE that drives a generator, and the wheels themselves are driven only through an electric motor.

It would definitely be weird to have a racing engine on more or less the same revs all the time but maybe it could be a better step between the current hybrids and going full electric than hydrogen.

[graceful sun]

Thats also a bit pointless

Just a regular ice with sustainable fuel + focus on regen should be good

[zinc smelt]

But why?

[plush panther]

This is the future I see in road cars, too

But yes

Good for F1

[graceful sun]

Na for road cars batteries are the way

[plush panther]

Not imo

Electric and batteries is expensive, harmful to produce, and hard to dispose of

Lithium and other components of a battery are incredibly hard to obtain and require very extensive mining

Also, the power still has to come from somewhere

So unless we can switch to a fully sustainable power grid and find a safer, less harmful and more efficient way to obtain the necessary resources, I don’t see a fully electric powered future for cars

[graceful sun]

Once solid state batteries are a thing ice are dead

[plush panther]

Yes

[upper ivy]

Efficiency is the same if not worse than Otto/Diesel-Engines and even if the Hydrogen is produced with green energy it's just more efficient to directly charge a battery with it.

[zinc smelt]

Yes i know, but for the engine sound you know

[upper ivy]

Well, that's really not the most important thing 😅

[zinc smelt]

But for shure a big point

if you want to do it with a hydrogen fuel cell its basically Formula E

[proud pumice]

Let's introduce the Wankel ICE !!!

Which seems to perform way better with hydrogen than petrol

The combustion is more complete

The flame propagation with hydrogen

Is way superior than petrol in other terms

But there's the issue now of how it would be stored inside the car

The hydrogen could be either gaseous or liquid

Even though yes , fuel cells are more efficient

But like mentioned above

There's already formula E

[upper ivy]

The Glickenhaus way https://cdn.carbuzz.com/gallery-images/840x560/864000/700/864720.jpg

[proud pumice]

😂

[proud pumice]

I like the aerodynamics

It's a rolling H bomb

[upper ivy]

It somewhat reminds me of that standardised air intake the Euro-F3 car had

[proud pumice]

Ohhh yes

[proud pumice]

This ?

[upper ivy]

Yep!

Shame that series ended

[proud pumice]

😭

[proud pumice]

So better fuel efficiency this fuel economy too

Now I need some help...really

Idk if it's appropriate for this channel but it's concerning my future maybe

I live in France and I really want to become a designer/engineer in F1 or Motorsports in general, so I'm planning on going to this engineering school called ESTACA (where the current team principal of Alfa Romeo studied)but then I found out since the UK seems to show an even bigger enthusiasm for racing, should I go study there (Motorsports Engineering Degree)

Instead

And I was looking at this place

Oxford Brookes

Which offers this pretty specific degree I want to do

[spiral gyro]

Hydrogen ICE just a big no

[edgy anchor]

While Yamaha have been working on a Hydrogen version oif the 1UR

With how rich it has to be, regardless of Octane and whatnot, and physical storage?

Naaaaah man

[graceful sun]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/294636779129012227/1012044012162654218/unknown.png

So is that rear wing completely new or am I reading into a sticker too much

Just the angle of the top element is strange

[jaunty surge]

I dont think so

idk why'd they would put upgrades on a sticker

but i could be wrong

[spiral gyro]

id rather wait for the actual car and check out the upgrades 😂

[plain heath]

What is the goal of these parts on RW?

[graceful sun]

Left one is the drs actuator and the one on the right is a sensor

[plain heath]

Oh thanks

[sterile laurel]

Came over an interesting post having to do with the impact that helicopters have on the aerodynamic performance of F1 cars on a F1 circuit. Never thought that they would pay a factor

[final dust]

Why in spa. Why

[reef nest]

in FP1 to gather data

probably to compare the speed differences between the cars

[warm pewter]

What are the important design features that the cars should have for Spa?

[short ether]

Low drag

What system does F1 have in place if the timing transponder system fails?

[graceful sun]

There’s like multiple transponders

[short ether]

What if the system that relays it to the FIA fails I mean, someone cuts the wire at the broadcast centre

[edgy anchor]

You'd have a red flag

[zinc smelt]

and also there are muliple sensors, so if one fails (exept the DRS-detection sensors) this shouldn't be that big of a problem

[graceful sun]

Tech upgrades Belgian GP

Mercedes: Fron Wing Endplate, Floor Fence & Edge, Rear Wing Flap & Tips
Red Bull: Engine Cover, Rear Wishbone Shroud
Ferrari: Rear Wing, Beam Wing
McLaren: Diffuser, Rear Wing, Beam Wing, Rear Brake Winglet, Engine Cover, Cooling Louvres, Front Trackrod Fairing
Alpine: Rear Brake Ducts, Floor Fences
Alpha Tauri: Rear Wishbone Shroud, Rear Brake Winglets, Rear Wing, Beam Wing
Aston Martin: Front Wing Flaps, Rear Wing
Williams: Front Wing Flaps, Rear Wing Flaps, Beam Wing
Alfa Romeo: Front Wing Flaps, Rear Wing Flaps & Endplates
Haas: Rear Brake Winglets, Beam Wing

[paper wing]

Congrats @graceful sun, you're now on lap 30

[zinc bison]

So no name has a new road for bikes, and the bus stop and le source both have new gravel traps

and eau rouge/radillion is less steep and with more runoff

[proud pumice]

Floor fence and edge... Interesting

[civic fern]

1.5s was probably Melbourne

Ferrari in 2012: perfect driver, perfect team, dogshit car

Theyre probably steaming watching Ferrari bottle 2022

Oh wait theyve been working at Mercedes now

Nvm

[proud pumice]

I was wondering

So far , Mercedes looks like it has the most "extreme" design ,by removing the big sidepods

But currently their pace seemed to have not improved much regarding that bit of the car

So I was wondering, if they went back to a more traditional option, then they might pick up some pace

???

Is it bringing a real advantage relative to other teams ?

[short ether]

Who else other than James Alisson moved?

[rich gust]

Probably the weirdest qn to ask

but why do F1 V8s produce such a high pitched whining sound while Nascar V8s produce such a deep, growly sound?

[sudden scroll]

i would guess the displacement (5.86L) which allows them to have more power at lower rpm than the F1 V8 (2.4L). the NA F1 engines were all about the high rpm to reach the power band

so bigger displacement and lower rpm

[edgy anchor]

1. F1 V8's were smaller, with a whole lot less stroke, and Dual Overhead Camshafts, allowing them to double the revs of a NASCAR V8
2. F1 V8's used Flat-Plane Crankshafts, which allow for less mass, and have firing orders that're evenly spaced on either side of the engine

Cross plane cranks, like Most American V8's, have unbalanced firing orders, and so the engine has that lump in the exhaust pulse, this can also be seen on i4's like the current Yamaha R1's

If you wanna hear what something like that sounds like

NASCAR did use however X-Pipe exhausts from 1994 into the 2000's which allowed all 8 exhaust headers to collect into one pipe, which gave you an extra layer on top that sounds like you're screaming at double the revs as the roar going on

https://youtu.be/ApaahB7NKLc

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.corvetteforum.com-vbulletin/320x180/mercedes_amg_gt_black_series_cross_plane_crankshaft_5ffce6ca0dc34_a6639cb06ba55729f04ade98ad49fffac90fae15.gif

[civic fern]

Aldo Costa

[ornate hamlet]

it was 1.5s gap to Mclaren

[stray wraith]

I mean I'd guess that the pace deficit has to do with the floor being not at good at RB and Ferrari than the side pods but we honestly can't really know from an outside view

The side pods are just the most visable thing to the viewer but not necessarily the most important thing

[zinc bison]

Can every car on the grid start itself this year?

[edgy anchor]

They should be able to with the Hybrid regs, yes

[short ether]

Not really an F1 related but why is it called feeder series

[slow oracle]

Because it's all an group of competitions with the goal to create new talent for Formula One

[short ether]

Ah thank you

[slow oracle]

No worries my man

[floral bramble]

Does ground effect result on lesser slipstream?
I think it's pretty obvious and visible that now a lot of overtakes have to rely on the straights with drs, and honestly kills a point of racing
Not side to side through corners but just bigass cars overtake other defenseless cars on the straight with drs

[graceful sun]

Ground effects has ment that over the body aero has been simplified so slipstream is less effective

But both things aren’t mutually exclusive

[floral bramble]

Honestly hope they will go for much smaller and lighter cars in the 2026 rule change

Like

https://twitter.com/F1/status/1563946765459546120?t=alr_TGc1p9GROnTJRMBaJA&s=19

It just looks much faster

Even though our current cars are a lot faster

[edgy anchor]

Wdym now? That has been the case for a hot minute

[plain heath]

If the Ferrari has a higher clipping than the Red Bull does it mean they have a different engine mapping or is it the RB18's hybrid part that works better?

[short ether]

How has the battery evolved from 2014?
Have they remained the same size?

[short ether]

They need to change the onboard broadcast, they have side cameras near the sidepod I think but never seem to use them

[floral bramble]

It can be seen through out the year for me, most obvious in imola
They have to rely on drs for most overtakes

[edgy anchor]

As I said

Like... That's been the case for years

[west pasture]

Quali: 1st picture

Race: 2nd picture

Redbull seem to have a much more efficient car. It’s very balanced as it is faster in the straights and corners & for the race it had less tyre degradation. It is a very efficient car.
Because of the balanced car, it is able to go on full throttle way faster than the Ferrari’s. This helps the RB car the most + the straight line speed because it has less drag. The Red Bull also runs higher and still get a ton of downforce which helped trough Eau Rouge as it didn’t scrape the floor as much as other teams. And it barely bounces. As seen in this tweet: https://twitter.com/redbullracingen/status/1564560412913303555?s=21&t=yxXS85NRILiUYbqzoexcSw

@short ether

RBR News 🇳🇱🇲🇽 (@RedBullRacingEN)

🎥 | RB18 vs F1-75

A visual representation of the levels of porpoising between the Ferrari and the Red Bull 😯

Video credits: @OMOTEURAF1

Likes

550

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 30, 2022, 10:27 AM

The Red Bull seems to be very balanced, so I think we can see them dominating in Zandvoort again.

And well, I think Monza speaks for itself.

And Red Bull are bringing a light weight chassis to Singapore which should give then 2-3 tenths.

[proud pumice]

Does this mean the current generation of cars are more aerodynamic ?

After the Belgian Gp

Ig everyone caught on the fact that mercedes was draggy on the straights (which cost them plenty of time on sector 1)

https://youtu.be/8Xf7ZIkFPg8

And around 2 thirds in the video

He mentions that the car seems to have had some kind aero balance issue

And from what I can understand

From what he's saying ("rear starts sliding"after applying the brakes)

This means

That either the floor seems to be still THE issue here

Or it's the rear wing which is the problem here which simply loses a significant amount of downforce causing the loss of grip, so while during cornering/braking , the centre of pressure of the car shifts forwards

So during cornering/braking , the centre of pressure of the car shifts forwards, so which element is exactly the problem here ?

Source: https://www.formula1-dictionary.net/aerodynamic_balance.html

[west pasture]

Yes they are.

[proud pumice]

Ok, this means slipstream is less effective then

[west pasture]

Yes.

[proud pumice]

👍

[formal estuary]

Can also be brake balance or weight transfer issues. They have to run their car very stiff since it's so low so it's likely that the weight can't shift to the front and it causes a slide.

[west pasture]

The Mercedes is overweight.

I think it’s 807kg, and the Redbull is 806kg.

And the minimum is 795 I think.

[west pasture]

This is very true.

This will hurt them in Zandvoort.

[short ether]

What causes weight transfer issues?

[short ether]

This is due to a lack of rear grip. When you hit the brakes, the weight shifts forwards and less weight holding the rear tyres.
CofP is too forward
More rear downforce would help

When coming on the brakes, the car can pitch/roll, so CofP shifts forward and front downforce is more effective, because the car is literally tilting forwards.

Stiffness of springs and anti roll bar adjustments can deal with this, to an extent.

[vernal elk]

Are teams allowed open up their engine to fix it or are there regulations preventing it? I can't seem to find anything when I google...

[formal estuary]

Mercedes run extra stiff suspension and have a smaller window of what they can do with that than other teams.

[proud pumice]

Yea👍

So the issue

Could just be that the car was set up badly

[short ether]

Engineered poorly I’d say

Probably just focused on downforce levels from the wind tunnel too much

Without realising the balance dynamics

And correlation issues with the bouncing

[short ether]

Why can’t they just run less stiff? What in particular about their car design forces them to run stiff?

[formal estuary]

They run the car much closer to the ground than everyone else to generate the most downforce, so you need stiff suspension to stop the car from hitting the ground.

When it works their concept is pretty fast, look at silverstone they had the fastest cornering speed.

[formal estuary]

That's the issue. They have a very narrow window of what they can do with setup

[short ether]

Looking at pics, I think they all run as close to the ground as possible. I think maybe the structural flex stiffness on the Merc is less

Hence the floor stays etc

[formal estuary]

Nah that's not true, Mercedes is basically touching the ground on some tracks

Belgium is a different story

[short ether]

Yeah

All cars were literally touching the ground tho

Look at the Ferrari pics

You cannot see underneath

For some reason I want to think the no sidepod design is causing this issue

Higher ride height for Belgium

[west pasture]

Definitely not

The RB’s ride height is the highest, with Mercedes being the lowest. I’m pretty sure.

[formal estuary]

Don't use Belgium as an example because all teams raised the car because of eau rouge + the td. But most other races Mercedes is by far the lowest

[proud pumice]

Kk

[proud pumice]

Yea,too, that makes sense after all

[short ether]

Yeah

[short ether]

F1 banned inerters too, so Merc could also be struggling with this.
Not being able to apply grip on all 4 wheels as they want.
There’s a lot of reasons I guess we will never known

[west pasture]

I think this is why RB dominated so much.

All season long, the ride height of the RB was quite “high” and still very efficient. So they barely had to raise to car for Eau Rouge.

[short ether]

Good shot of Ferrari and Merc ride heights at Silverstone

Interesting, RB has slight rake

[odd citrus]

I don't think so

Rake doesn't help much

Maybe it looks like this at high speed, but when the car is parked it doesn't look like so

[west pasture]

This was from the “test day” back before official testing. There’s no rake.

[short ether]

Nah it was fp2. But yh both are not parc ferme sessions

[short ether]

Yeah

[west pasture]

Quality isn’t great so i thought it was the old sidepods.

[short ether]

Anyone know what that huge thing is on the back? Haven’t seen this on other engines?

[west pasture]

Pretty sure that’s cooling.

I think it’s from this part of the car.

[west pasture]

You can see water cables going to it so i’m 89% sure that’s cooling.

[short ether]

Has to be, just never seen that style of cooling, it’s huge. They also have double air to air intercoolers so idek

It just looks weird

[short ether]

For example this is the Merc.

[west pasture]

Well the Mercedes has a way different style of car.

The Ferrari would be a better comparison

[short ether]

Yeah, if someone could explain the RB intercooling setup…

(Ferrari)

I think this is from 2021

Still looks completely different to RB

[west pasture]

I’m a software engineer/chef, not a car mechanic so I wouldn’t be able to explain. I just like to consume knowledge 😅

[short ether]

Same lol

[west pasture]

Well there’s a big chunk missing I think.

[short ether]

Yeah

Hmmm

Need more pics

[odd citrus]

Ehh i guess the engine and other related parts xD

[merry delta]

Williams

[short ether]

Wow thanks,

[merry delta]

Williams actually has been switching between having 1 or 2 intercoolers over the engine intake

so it's a similar solution to RB

[short ether]

Are those the only 2 teams have have an intercooler over the engine?

[sleek spear]

🤔

[merry delta]

more than likely not, but idk

if I am not mistaken, every team uses an intercooler for the engine in some sort of format

[dark trench]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/status/1565293142261235714 how would the gravel work here as the f1 car wouldnt be to sink if are the gravel is glued together?

Albert Fabrega (@AlbertFabrega)

Solución en Zandvoort para evitar que grava vaya a pista cuando un coche va por el interior de T12. Yo no puedo despegarlas, veremos un F1

In Zandvoort they glued the gravel to avoid stones going on the track when a car cut T12. I can't move it, let's see if F1 cars can
#f1

▶ Play video

Twitter · Sep 1, 2022, 10:59 AM

[nimble marten]

its like having the stopping capabilities of gravel without causing mess like gravel

[west pasture]

There’s like a edge of glued gravel, and the rest is normal gravel.

[dark trench]

ah alr

[west pasture]

It’s shown here quite good.

[graceful sun]

Its just gravel covered in resin