classic-motorsport

[desert plover]

Riccardo Patrese testing out the FW18

He reportedly set a time that would have placed him on the second row of the grid for that year's British Grand Prix.

[paper fossil]

I think best for Williams and himself he didn’t come back even in 1994 if I may just mention

[tribal silo]

I wrote about Monaco 1982 for Portuguese Autosport and I have an English version ready to publish

[willow gorge]

Yo that's pretty cool

[limber furnace]

Nice.

I can’t stop rewatching Senna’s lap around Monaco in 1990.

[hardy ravine]

hakkinen? they wanted both mclaren drivers?

1982 was a really interesting season. tragic, yes, but interesting

11 different winners

9 different in 9 consecutive races

keke wins wdc only winning one race

why did they move this channel so far down?

this is my favourite channel

[sour moon]

Sadly she caught fire soon after that but damn, that sound 👌 https://www.kkinstagram.com/reel/DI_vYvoKFcj/?

[tribal silo]

did my messages disappear?

[molten salmon]

Rule 3

[tribal silo]

But it wasn't with that intention, only to see if there were people interested; I wouldn't post or promote its contents here

Sorry

[molten salmon]

still, it also feels like a scam at worst

[crimson saddle]

Maybe Mika was just there to have a look too. I don't think Frank was really interested in him

Btw, Senna at Monza testing a high nose design inspired by Tyrrell 019

Kinda looks like Formula E nose I guess

[tribal silo]

No, not at all, there is no money involved. Just want to find other enthusiasts who also love to write

[willow gorge]

reliability used to be so bad

it's insane how many mechanical failures there were

even 20 years ago

[mighty ginkgo]

yeah theres basically zero now compared to around ~2 in 2017 and even by then that was considered little

whereas in every v10 race by the middle of the race everyone just starts breaking down

[paper fossil]

Every season pre 2003 looked like a minefield for actual mechanical failures

When they introduced parc ferme in 2003 it got slightly better and as the years have gone by you get teams being able to micro manage things better and if there is indeed a terminal failure they will just endeavour to shut everything down unlike 20+ years ago

[hardy ravine]

anyone here know about the pre-race warm up sessions on sunday mornings?

[paper fossil]

Know what exactly

[willow gorge]

was watching Melbourne 2000 and Jenson was magnificent until he poofed

such a shame

How do you sustain a career like that when your car is always blowing up?

[willow gorge]

Exactly

[willow gorge]

I see

[desert plover]

Which Ferrari F1 car is this

Alain Prost 1992 testing the FW14B

[molten salmon]

1979 312 T4, second picture is driven by Jody Scheckter

[desert plover]

what about the first picture, any ideas?

[molten salmon]

312 T4A, unraced upgrade to the T4

[desert plover]

Ah okay nice

[desert plover]

rip roland

[desert plover]

rip senna

[idle gale]

Sebring 1959. The race where Bruce McLaren (Number 9) scored his first F1 victory

[past drift]

youngest race winner until Alonso beat that record in 2003

[idle gale]

Ayrton and Roland

Gone but not forgotten

[willow gorge]

2000 Monaco is the weirdest start to a race I've ever seen

3 drivers jogging

[paper fossil]

2001 Austria was an ideal start to a GP

First race after the FIA officially lifted the ban on some driver aids

And it is just a total mess

[signal flint]

A red one I believe

[desert plover]

did not know, thank you

[desert plover]

Not sure if you guys knew this but the HANS device had been in development in the 1980s, and this is what it used to look like

[smoky fractal]

doesn't even look safe lmao

[smoky fractal]

le mans ahh start

[willow gorge]

lmao

[mighty ginkgo]

it probably looks like it would harm the drivers more than keep them safe tbh

[fleet wigeon]

Yeah i don't think that's safe and would not save any driver

[willow gorge]

Gonna need more than the bootleg HANS anyway in the 1980s lol

[desert plover]

There is a video of Kyle petty using HANS in nascar during the 1996 season and looks identical to the ones nowadays

Dale Earnhardt was against them and would probably of saved him…

[steady trellis]

He said that they would only act as a noose if he got in a crash

Mixed with his seatbelt being ripped out of the mount and him not wearing a HANS is what killed him

[idle gale]

In memories of Jochen Mass

[idle gale]

Powersliding in tandem

[hardy ravine]

many people don't even know that session existed

[mighty ginkgo]

its how they start the formation lap on the racetrack and not pits

[willow gorge]

I always hear the commentators talking about it in the earlier races

[hardy ravine]

a race winner.

but tragic race

[past drift]

from what i've understood, it seems like it was basically like a current free practice

at the time, practice sessions were when your times went towards the starting grid

you basically had 2 days of qualifying

[hardy ravine]

it was on the sunday mornings

for teams to adjust their race setup

[desert plover]

1986 Portuguese GP

[hardy ravine]

oh yeah, keke rosberg's yellow mclaren

was supposed to advertise the marlboro light cigarettes

ironically, he had to retire, when his car started smoking

[past drift]

heh

[mighty ginkgo]

best advertising tbh

[strange stag]

ADAC Racing Weekend 2025 Hockenheimring I Crash & Mistake
https://youtu.be/D_CEcAj8xGY

[desert plover]

Jackie Stewart’s Matra MS9, only raced once

Super awesome design and unique

At the 1999 Belgian GP, Ferrari used F1 logos to replace their Marlboro sponsorship because tobacco ads were illegal

The Jaguar R4 F1 car featured a special "Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines" livery as part of the film's promotion

[hardy ravine]

yeah, know about that

[hardy ravine]

which year?

[past drift]

would be like 68

yes, south africa 68. aka last win for Jim Clark

[hardy ravine]

not in traditional matra colours though

french racing blue

[past drift]

yeah no clue why that was

[lean sage]

Might be a Tyrell thing?

Since Stewart didn't race for the French factory Matra team

Tyrell associated his entry with the blue but given that was their first entry maybe this hadn't been established yet?

1968 was the end of national racing team colours and if Tyrell's Matras were entered under a British flag, maybe they were required to use green?

The blue might also have been an Elf sponsorship thing

[past drift]

they entered as Matra International, as they would

for the first race of 68 everyone still used national colours until Lotus got their deal with Gold Leaf cigarettes

[desert plover]

Did you know about Ferrari's black nose in 2005 at the Bahrain GP?

[trim robin]

i saw micheal schumachers f2004 abt 3 months ago

[paper fossil]

the paint on it was only a primer

unique car really

[mighty ginkgo]

shouldve used hp

[mighty ginkgo]

bro

@obsidian tendon

[hardy ravine]

that's because the pope died

[strange stag]

https://youtu.be/lAb0rKPqWIE?feature=shared

[obsidian tendon]

sorry i missed this i’m at indy today so i’m offline ; o ;

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkhXrX1_YB4&ab_channel=AidanMillward

[mighty ginkgo]

wth

[mighty ginkgo]

wait indy is today?

[obsidian tendon]

yea

it was just practice (?) and quali?

i was working so i didnt get to watcha nything...

[mighty ginkgo]

oh

[desert plover]

Possibly the greatest podium ever

[idle gale]

The fact that both the Skyline GTR R32 and the M3 GTR were so good, arguably dominant, that they were banned in their respective motorsport series

[smoky iris]

some of my pics from Hockenheim Historic

[strange tide]

lotus 97t spotted

[past drift]

yooo very cool, thanks for the pics¬

[past drift]

i think it's a 91

[hardy ravine]

1993 spain

anyway,

HAPPY 75TH BIRTHDAY, F1!

[hardy ravine]

McLaren MP4/1 spotted

the first with a carbon fiber monocoque

[hardy ravine]

where?

[smoky iris]

Yep!

[smoky iris]

Thanks!

[mighty ginkgo]

wait this is insane theres so many of them

[smoky iris]

Yeah!

One series was for F1 cars from 1966 to 1985, with around 20 entries.

Boss GP had the 1997 (I think?) Benetton (as well as some mid-2000s F1 & Formula Renault and early 2010 F2/GP2 cars)

The mid-90s Ferrari and some of the 70s F1 cars were just there for show-runs between races

And there were several series for the pre-60s Formula Cars

[mighty ginkgo]

woah

[hardy ravine]

before someone corrects me, happy birthday to the world championship! it's been 75 years since the first world championship grand prix in silverstone.

[desert plover]

Nah, first F1 car with a caron fibre monocoque was the Lotus 88, at the 1981 Long Beach GP

[past drift]

did they keep that monocoque in the 87

[desert plover]

Yeah, but the MP4 came before the Lotus 87

[past drift]

true

[wary oak]

The first F1 car to use carbon brakes, Gordon Murray's Brabham BT45

[hardy ravine]

it never raced though

and mp4/1 came a few races later

[desert plover]

It did take part in practice sessions, but FIA banned it after the other teams disapproved of it

Lotus also tried entering it at the next race, Brazil GP, but same thing happened, and so at the Argentina GP, when it didn’t even get through scrutineering, Chapman left the circuit and went to watch a Space Shuttle launch lol

[mighty ginkgo]

space shuttle launch 😭

was it an american race?

[strange tide]

old lotus cars are so fun to drive

in assetto anyway

[past drift]

i really didn’t enjoy the 25

[hardy ravine]

so the mp4/1 was the first f1 car to race with a carbon monocoque

[past drift]

🤝

[desert plover]

"Team Lotus left the circuit, and a statement read out at the time said Chapman heading to Florida to watch the Space Shuttle launch, to remind himself about mankind’s real technical achievements!” 😂

It was very clever the Lotus 88, nothing like it at the time

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5LjXhoW9D4&ab_channel=AidanMillward

[hardy ravine]

the double chassis.

[hardy ravine]

aidan millward is a legend whenever he uploads a video someone posts it here

[idle gale]

"Why is it so heavy?"

"It's a V12 engine. That lump weighs 180K on its own"

[hardy ravine]

An Onyx on the podium:

It's Stefan Johansson

Onyx has more podiums than Haas...

[past drift]

same for Footwork and Leyton House

[tribal silo]

Footwork and Lewyton House have to be considered as Arrows and March, so they have more years and results than Haas

[past drift]

Lancia then.

[hardy ravine]

onyx was a team that had to go through pre-qualifying.

[past drift]

oh ye i know, they were short lived as well

[hardy ravine]

yeah

[desert plover]

God tier livery though

[past drift]

yeah it looks real fresh

from the side, a bit less

[desert plover]

Yea we dont talk about the sides haha

[past drift]

the 1989 school of airboxes is a real mixed bag

you got the "normal", as in so good it created the standard to fllow

[desert plover]

Ferrari looks good

[past drift]

more lumped airboxes

[past drift]

before they changed the design it looked like another turbo Ferrari

[desert plover]

ya glad they changed it

[past drift]

the Minardis between 89 and 91 were great

this one is goofy with that lump of the rollhoop

but i like the colours overall

[desert plover]

What about the Tyrrell? Looks sick in all black

[past drift]

oh yeah that's slick

oh that car only ran in Brasil

[desert plover]

Ya, minimal sponsor's, and all black = very niceeee

Since it is race weekend in Imola, Senna qualified on Pole at Imola a record eight times out of 11 races, he achieved ZERO fastest laps during the races, and only finished on the podium five times.

[past drift]

he finished his career with a pole at Imola

[fleet wigeon]

Pink Onyx

[desert plover]

Was watching Schumacher qualify for the 1996 Imola GP, and noticed that he would try to lean his head to the side of the cockpit on the straights to get more airflow to the airbox…

[sour moon]

leclerc does it too, he goes lower in his seat on the straights, it’s super funny

[woven zinc]

and even then and even with him driving for them Ferrari only got 2nd in the WCC by 2 points

[desert plover]

Yup, Schumacher left Benneton for Ferrari, and the F310 wasn't that good of an F1 car, plus Eddie Irvine retired 8 races in a row lol

Benneton was ahead of Ferrari heading to the final race, but Alesi crashed, and Berger lost his front wing and lost a few places

[woven zinc]

yeah they also had both cars DNF for 3 races straight from Canada to Silverstone

anyway #classic-motorsport

[hardy ravine]

and scam sponsor

[desert plover]

yeah like FTX

another god tier livery

[hardy ravine]

and t-minus

and rich energy

[hardy ravine]

https://www.instagram.com/p/DJzb0UFtu6T/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

people say f1 won't be f1 without ferrari. that's false. in reality, f1 won't be f1 without lotus. sponsorship, monocoques, stressed-member engines, wings, sidepods, the DFV, ground effect. you name it, lotus pioneered it.

f1._history

On May 18th, 1958, at the Monaco Grand Prix, Lotus made its Formula 1 debut. Colin Chapman brought to the track not just a car, but a philosophy: lightness, innovation, audacity.

It would go on to become an icon, revolutionizing the very concept of the racing car. From Jim Clark to Ayrton Senna, Lotus wrote unforgettable chapters in the history...

Likes

1013

Instagram

or i just really like lotus

[idle gale]

The Lotus 49 before and after installing the wings and getting the iconic Golf Leaf sponsorship

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yC4HeC-TLg&ab_channel=AidanMillward

[past drift]

well, Lotus left a long time ago

[hardy ravine]

but they did have a lot of influence in f1

[past drift]

definitely, they set precedent for many design cues

[restive current]

what about the CG891?

i kind of like it

[desert plover]

What about the 881?

First F1 car designed by Adrian Newey

[restive current]

looks absolutely stunning too

[paper fossil]

Better than the 1987 Coppuck March that is for sure

[restive current]

for sure 😭

[past drift]

did he do more cars after that? lost a bit track of him after he left McLaren

[paper fossil]

March for 81, Spirit and then when March returned properly again

If we can ignore that RAM March thing

Don’t think Robin Herd had anything to do with it

[desert plover]

https://youtu.be/PbMSTXkvc1g?si=ygJREsCcyJ0b9bf4

[hardy ravine]

that's an f3000 car modified for f1

[paper fossil]

The 87P was yes but they eventually had the 871 during the season

And you can still see it is much different from the first Newey car

Which set the template really for the whole grid

[idle gale]

Niki and Clay

[restive current]

“2.3”

[desert plover]

All black MP4/9!

John Watson with the Sauber C15

[idle gale]

Perhaps the only time Ayrton rolled his car

[fleet wigeon]

First Tyrrell with raised nose

[restive current]

the last 4WD car to race in formula 1, the lotus 56B

[idle gale]

When the Jags had diamonds on them. Which they lost one of them

[paper fossil]

Had the gas turbine engine as well

Wasn’t that good

Thing is 4WD was a craze people had to react to the banning of the movable wings by finding mechanical ways of increasing grip

But that was soon solved by the wings we know now in 69 anyway

It just wasn’t particularly positive

[restive current]

it did

[restive current]

no, it wasn’t

but chapman did state that it should have won the 1971 dutch GP, since it was very wet and the 4WD gave lotus an advantage. dave walker gained 12 positions in 5 laps, but unfortunately he crashed out of the race

[paper fossil]

It had an advantage in those conditions yes

Like on its first F1 appearance as the 56B at the ROC

[hardy ravine]

oh, the gas turbine one

[restive current]

yes, the gas turbine one indeed

[past drift]

couldn't find many videos about that Honda powered Tyrrell 020, sad

sadder is the fact they didn't get that the notch in the middle was detrimental to the airflow. or is it the sideways pillars?

anhedral however it's said

[desert plover]

Crazy to think that’s how these pictures were taken

[idle gale]

Mr Monaco

[restive current]

1998 canadian gp

[molten salmon]

No goggles or helmet. Legend

[acoustic imp]

Long Beach, 1980, Brabham BT49
Nelson Piquet's first win

[past drift]

1980 Monaco Grand Prix, last win for Argentina there

[acoustic imp]

12th win for Reutemann

[acoustic imp]

Senna and Mansell - 1991 Spanish Grand Prix

[mighty ginkgo]

the amount of sparks is wild

[restive current]

metal skid plates, low ride height, and stiff suspension

silverstones track surface was quite bumpy at the time too

[desert plover]

Paul Tracy testing out the Benetton B194

[past drift]

https://tenor.com/view/smile-paul-tracy-indycar-on-nbc-indycar-indycar500-gif-18115800

[desert plover]

BRM's last Formula One car

[fleet wigeon]

I don't know about you but the chassis reminds of those 1980's indycar

[hardy ravine]

which year?

[desert plover]

1978

Actually 1979 maybe

[past drift]

didn’t know they tried a wingcar

kept their v12 ofc

seeing the rear wing it’s probably 79

[paper fossil]

It was never going to be raced at world championship level

Iirc

[past drift]

sadly they were probably too broke

shame because it could have been good enough for a few points, especially if it's a 1978 car

[paper fossil]

Pretty sure they failed to qualify with their last car

So I doubt it

I like that Pilbeam quote about Louis Stanley

"Louis Stanley was in a dream world. He thought he was Britain’s Enzo Ferrari. His office at Bourne was dimly lit and had one of those ceiling lamps you could pull down. He’d have it so low that you couldn’t see his face. It was all pretence. We didn’t even have a decent F3 budget. It was laughable really. Sad too.”

[past drift]

yeah i remember that quote

sad, they were on a good swing in 1971 and 72, but they went downhill real fast

[idle gale]

"It's terrible! Drives like a pig!"

[past drift]

the b3/74 is so much better than the b3 of 73

[round swift]

But it’s a Ferrari!

[honest crown]

"It's amazing all these facilities and you make a piece of crap like this?"

[paper fossil]

As almost insinuated before that isn't quite the car Lauda tested first at Ferrari in late 73

[fleet wigeon]

It's a Ferrari!

• Rush movie

[past drift]

i wonder how important he was towards the improvements of the car for 74, if he was as key and crucial to it than the movie portrays

cause it feels although he made the car and Forghieri was useless

(with the movie that is)

[paper fossil]

Forghieri often has said Merzario was as important in the development stages of the B3 when Mauro came back after a hiatus resulting from some poorer years in the early 70’s (1971-1972)

I think he’s also said Lauda and Regazzoni were both about as good as each other at setting up a car but Lauda was better at testing individual things

Like tyres

I think it is overplayed like a lot of things

Lauda didn't really get to Ferrari because of results or appearing as a genius he got recommended by Regazzoni and had some decent weekends at Monaco and Germany for BRM

Two tracks that teams paid more attention to than others

The BRM scenes in that Rush movie are nonsensical

[paper fossil]

Truly though he was the weakest performing driver in that team

[languid trout]

was BRM's reliability just below average for the time? Or was it still pretty bad, even by the standards of the 1970s?

[past drift]

i think it was quite decent, but their car was probably quite slow and heavy

[hardy ravine]

lauda did win a race

[past drift]

with brm?

maybe a non championship idk

[restive current]

lauda never won a race with BRM, whether championship or non-championship

[desert plover]

Regazzoni got a podium with the BRM P160 in an nonchampionship race

[restive current]

yes, i believe it was in silverstone

1973, BRDC international trophy

[drifting swallow]

i really need to drive more classics in games

[hardy ravine]

with ferrari in 1974

and i don't know anything about non-championship

[past drift]

ah we were talking about brm so i was confused

[ashen acorn]

Sadly didn't get a picture but saw sennas lotus 97t in London at the lotus dealership

[past drift]

sweet

[desert plover]

Retired eight races in a row, poor Alboreto

Did you guys know that Ferrari had an semi automatic gearbox for the 1979 Ferrari 312 T, and Gilles Villeneuve tested it at Ferrari’s Fiorano test track, where he apparently completed 100 laps without a hitch. There was only one problem: he didn’t like it.

[past drift]

lmao

[floral mason]

If you’re fed up with losing and want to stop, reach out to me now. I’ll help you on any game you want.

[idle gale]

A lot of people tends to forget that the Williams FW16 was built to have the Active Suspensions from the FW14B and FW15C in mind, which was taken out due to the AS ban

Which is also the reason why Ayrton and Damon found the FW16 difficult to drive at the start of the infamous season, if I remember correctly

[past drift]

they were working on a suspension rework when Ayrton died

making the car more stable

[desert plover]

Schumachers B194, cool little digital display

[past drift]

he alreadyu had that much info in 94??

[desert plover]

I guess so, because according to the comments, they were able to change it to max entry speed, min apex speed and current speed

But I would think they would do this in practice sessions or qualifying, I don't know about races though

[past drift]

i thought he did that with the small screens next to the LEDS at the top

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NesDgpt8Yfs bit hard to see what it shows

[desert plover]

I think the LEDS at the top go purple or red or whenever to inform to upshift

[past drift]

yeah but there's 3 screens next to said LEDs

[desert plover]

Its hard to see what is on the screen

[past drift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71wSjirHHZI it seems to show speeds

i guess on your picture the screen has been heavily updated with current tech

[desert plover]

Man you must have great eyes because I can't even see anything on the screen lol

[past drift]

on certain shots and lighting you can see 8 dot numbers

[desert plover]

I still can't see anything my laptop brightness is to dark

Seems like it is off in this picture unless you can see it on I dont know

[desert plover]

If you want to read the story about it, heres the link its in the comments: https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/g9tnm3/michael_schumacher_wanted_three_digital/

[smoky iris]

I finally got back my film pics (well, one roll at least) from Hockenheim Historic and I'm in love with the contrast this film has

[past drift]

ohhh that looks good!

many F2s right?

[smoky iris]

thanks! I think F2s and F3s yeah

[hardy ravine]

option 13

[hardy ravine]

1984 Austrian Grand Prix Q1:

[distant garnet]

The first image is the Copersucar from Emerson

[past drift]

yes

[desert plover]

multi 21

[azure hill]

Y

[deep arch]

Hm..

[idle gale]

The two teams in the early 2000s that had ambitions but were screwed over by upper management

[distant garnet]

Nah,only Jaguar

Toyota was pretty much like today's Aston Martin

Deep pockets and great testing equipment but cooked development

[hardy ravine]

is this the only race won by a six-wheeled car?

1976 swedish gp

[past drift]

yes, the car was actually quite bad

anderstorp was special in that it was as flat as a pool table

[lean sage]

Tbf across both cars in 1976 it scored 10 podiums which is pretty good

[past drift]

yeah 14 pods overall not too shabby, but they couldn’t evolve it it seems

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PVF7xlwFbk

[hearty cobalt]

.mute 241144772629102603 scam

[north sand]

dreamin0 muted the_tall_girl indefinitely Reason: scam.

[mighty ginkgo]

☠️

[idle gale]

Alan Jones v Carlos Reutemann. One of the greatest heated teammate rivalries of the 1980s

[idle gale]

That is one hell of a camera mount

[agile zenith]

On August 16th 2025 it would be 55 years ago that Formula 1 started racing on the Österreichring which would be later turned into the A1 Ring and since 2014 the Red Bull Ring

[past drift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOTMPUNj7PA

V8 Turbo, because who cares about fuel consumption

[idle gale]

The Megatron powered Arrows

[hardy ravine]

1981 was crazy

if only south africa counted towards the championship

[craggy ember]

I had a dream where I met Mika Hakkinen and he told me the 1998 cars didn't have ABS, is this correct?

[past drift]

that’s correct, ABS was banned in 94

the McLaren with the 3rd brake pedal had something that would limit lock but not like an abs woupd

[idle gale]

Though the cars still had Traction Control until 2008. That strange buzzing sounds you often hear when the cars are accelerating out of corners, that's the TC kicking in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-3z-bJuG_g

[past drift]

it's bonkers in 2004

[idle gale]

The last of the V12 Stallions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ubz5ti7u1Gw

[desert plover]

Thank god they got rid of it

[idle gale]

Ah yes. The infamous omnishambles that was the 2005 US GP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9BUhU-6RKc

And this was before Max kicked his blown out tyre

[past drift]

Ralf didn't have much luck at that track

[signal flint]

Whis currently commentating the adac n24 classic,anyone know??

[half spindle]

I like that livery alongside the Leyton House and Onyx

[desert plover]

McLaren announced that Prost will drive the MP4/4 at Goodwood later next month

[past drift]

i hope he will drive #11 then

pogtastic news nonetheless!

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYCYBFRVLQY

[desert plover]

Yeah maybe it will be the chassis MP4/4-04 or 06

[runic spire]

Then why don't u post it on the 16th of August

[agile zenith]

Well, I was bored at the time and it would be too long for me to wait for August 16th

BUT, I will repost it once its August 16th

[runic spire]

Fair

[hardy ravine]

the A1 ring ruined the old flow of the osterrichring

[desert plover]

In response to the Sega-sponsored Williams, McLaren used a squashed hedgehog badge after Senna took his victory in Donington.

[past drift]

wait, was your message deleted?

what happened.

we lost a full day in this channel it seems

[desert plover]

No I just posted this

I didnt know we lost messages

[past drift]

then someone else posted it in the missing messages

or that was another channel that spoke about the sega williams?

ah yes.

[desert plover]

what channel was it

id like to read about sega williams

[woven zinc]

yeah I can't find it either, very odd

might've been from a user we banned actually

[desert plover]

Thats why

[desert plover]

In the film F1, the opening scene features Sonny Hayes racing against Ayrton Senna during the 1993 Spanish Grand Prix. However, the sequence is inaccurately set at Jerez, a circuit Formula 1 hadn't used since 1990, instead of the actual 1993 venue, Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya.

[past drift]

what car is he driving? i think there was a 1990 Lotus in the trailer

[desert plover]

Yeah so it was a 1990 Lotus in the trailer but in the movie they were racing at the 1993 Spanish GP

[past drift]

using that car?

[desert plover]

I'm not sure, and also the circuit they showed in the movie does not look like either Jerez or Catalunya

[past drift]

Jarama?

[desert plover]

Can you tell?

Also im not sure if i am allowed to share this

I am pretty sure that this is Brands Hatch

Yup I am pretty sure, according online they didn't shoot at either Jerez or Catalunya, but they did shoot at Brands Hatch

[past drift]

ye its brands

[desert plover]

Lol this scene is super weird then, nothing matches if it is the "1993 Spanish GP"

Wrong car, wrong location, wrong everything

[past drift]

thats where Herbertt had his huge accodent

[desert plover]

The crash in the movie is based off of Martin Donnelly's crash at the 1990 Spanish GP

[past drift]

ah yes, ive been told there were many crashes haha

like jesus, is that someone who genuinely raced Senna for wins, or its de Cesaris?

[desert plover]

I think it was someone like de Cesaris because he never won a race and crashed out and retired for 30 something years

[past drift]

ahhh makes sense then

[fleet wigeon]

That's brands hatch but There's an bridge for some reason

I'm not sure if there was bridge like that on brands hatch,but there is bridge on Monza

So my only guess is if it could be Monza

[solemn pier]

its this bridge

[fleet wigeon]

Oh i see

[fleet wigeon]

Also maybe wrong year?

Because the crash happened in 1990 not 1993

[desert plover]

It says online that its during the 1993 Spanish GP

But I bet they take inspiration from that crash from 1990

It would make more sense if it was 1990 because McLarens and Lotus car did not look like that in 1993

[fleet wigeon]

Yeah very true

I mean lotus livery has the camel but this is different from 1993 which is lotus 107

[past drift]

Lotus lost the Camel spinsorshup in 91

[woven zinc]

bruh that's the 1990 Lotus racing the 1991 McLaren 😭

[past drift]

they would have changed the number? Senna only drove #27 in 1990

[woven zinc]

oh is the McLaren from 1990 as well?

only saw the screenshot

oh it does say 27, didn't notice, was only working off the lines of the car

[past drift]

🤷 i was looking at the /6 and /5b side views, they’re quite similar

[woven zinc]

yeah though the 5/5B is quite a bit smaller in terms of proportions

but here it legit does look like the 6

[round swift]

Senna used the number 27 in the 1990 Formula 1 season, specifically with the McLaren MP4/5B. And in 91 his number was 1. and it was the Mclaren MP4/6.

when was the crash ? 1990 Spanish Grand Prix held at the Jerez circuit,

[past drift]

what crash

[round swift]

The 1990 Jerez crash British F1 driver Martin Donnelly Driving for Lotus F1

and brands hatch is used as a stand-in for the onboard jerez footage, where hayes crashes while chasing race-leader ayrton senna.

[desert plover]

Yup

[idle gale]

George in the 50s

[round swift]

haters will say this is ai

[limber furnace]

May I please ask a question about Suzuka 1989?

I saw the footage from the helicopter that showed Alain deliberately turning in front of Ayrton’s car. That was Prost’s wrongdoing. When Senna told the marshals to push him onto the escape road, was that immoral and blatant cheating? Did he really deserve that disqualification?

[past drift]

no i think it was a convenient excuse to disqualify him

[idle gale]

Ivan Capelli. One of the most unluckiest drivers in F1 (?)

[lean sage]

Outside assistance from marshals is illegal in F1. It's a harsh rule and pretty much exclusive to F1 but it's the reality

[mighty ginkgo]

it’s fair like that

lots of loopholes if it was allowed

[lean sage]

Yeah it is more faur

I do quite like it in indycar when a non-destroyed car can get recovered and rejoin (shortens yellow flag periods and can reduce unnecessary DNFs) but objectively speaking outside interference isn't particularly fajr

[hardy ravine]

the lotus livery is wrong too

for 1993 that is

[desert plover]

everything in the scene is wrong haha

[round swift]

Ayrton Senna's controversial 1989 Japanese Grand Prix disqualification, which effectively handed Alain Prost the championship, stemmed from Senna illegally rejoining the track by cutting the chicane after their collision, despite marshals assisting his restart; this decision was widely seen as politically influenced by FIA President Jean-Marie Balestre in Prost's favor, prompting McLaren team principal Ron Dennis to famously question, "Where's the consistency?" given similar incidents in previous races had gone unpunished. Even another driver before the 1990 Suzuka Gp started in the drivers meeting room said That "There was a big fuck up with ayrton last year. " stating that it wasn't fair and saying also - " The only thing that is dangerous is a driver driving towards the other oncoming cars." and Mr. Balestre replied - " so does anybody else support this" all of them Says yes or cheers or raises their hands (sorry kinda forgot I'm writing this from memory)

And Senna leaves the meeting saying " I'm sorry ihave to leave this is the same thing that happened to me last year and Now you allow it and when it was me it wasn't allowed. it's not it's not fair for me . I'm sorry ihave to ihave to leave I'm sorry- then he leaves.

this is because even the previous Years of racing in the Track suzuka That same runoff area where Senna was helped by the marshals it was used previously before 89 basically it was used in 88 87 86 etc.. And no one was banned or disqualified from it. It was completely okay to drive. Because how Come would you say that was a "cutting" if you literally have Obstacles innit. 💔🥀

so in short technically (fia Way) he deserved the ban. But In Logical sense He didn't. It was truly unfair

[round swift]

Ayrton Senna was disqualified because of "cutting" the chicane when rejoining the track not because of the marshals helping him... While marshals did help him restart his car after the collision with Prost, the act of their assistance itself was not the reason for the disqualification. The specific rule violation cited by the stewards was Senna's illegal re-entry onto the circuit by bypassing the chicane.

[lean sage]

Is that actually true?

[round swift]

yes Iwouldnt lie to you guys you can search it up On Google or Google ai /Gemini , or search for footages about sennas unfair89 ban.

Mr. Ron Dennis (mclaren principal team that time) said "Where's the consistency"

This is one of the reasons why Mr. prost is also oneof the most Underappreciated F1 Drivers in History.

His friendship gave him advantage Political power By being friends with FIA President Jean-Marie Balestre

So basically if it weren't for Prost Going to Balestre after his contact That contributed him leaving the race . Senna would have had 4 WDC.

In 1989 (and earlier), it was generally accepted for marshals to push a car out of a dangerous position or gravel trap, and the driver could continue the race. This was particularly highlighted by the controversial 1989 Japanese Grand Prix incident involving Ayrton Senna. Senna was pushed by marshals after his collision with Alain Prost, rejoining the track. However, he was later disqualified, with the FIA's then-president Jean-Marie Balestre citing that Senna passed inside the pit lane entry and should have abandoned his car. While the disqualification was highly debated and seen by many as politically motivated, the act of marshals pushing a car itself wasn't necessarily an automatic disqualification then, especially if it was to clear a dangerous situation.

So in short like isaid Mr balestre Took the World champion Trophy from his hands and Gave it to Alain prost Instead

It is widely asserted by many F1 commentators that drivers had previously cut the chicane at Suzuka (and other tracks) without being disqualified, especially if it was a result of an incident and no lasting advantage was gained. The argument was that Senna was simply taking the safest and most logical route to rejoin the track after the collision, and he didn't gain a time advantage since he had to stop, be restarted, and then repair his car.
The specific "disqualification for skipping the chicane" for Senna in 1989, and the subsequent upholding of that decision by Balestre, was seen by many as an unprecedented and politically motivated application of the rules. There were no prominent cases of drivers being disqualified for a similar chicane-cutting incident in 1988, 1987, or 1986 at Suzuka, or indeed at other tracks.
In fact, the controversy around the 1989 decision was so significant that in the drivers' briefing before the 1990 Japanese Grand Prix, the drivers were explicitly told that they would NOT be disqualified for using the run-off at the chicane – a direct response to the previous year's contentious ruling. This further highlights how unusual and specifically targeted the 1989 disqualification of Senna was perceived to be.

[round swift]

did I answer your question?

[limber furnace]

Yes. Thanks for the essay.

[round swift]

Welcome

[lean sage]

I feel it's an exaggeration to say Senna would've won because he still would've had to beat Prost in Adelaide in order to be champion (which he did not)

Also AI is not a good source to cite

[woven zinc]

^^

pls don't blindly trust AI/Google Gemini summaries

[past drift]

Meh, it was just due to his not spectacular and planned way to handle races

vs drivers like Mansell or Senna who drove in the same years and were very spectacular drivers, in an era where the TV was becoming proeminent

Prost really took a lot from Lauda who favoured the small points consistently over huge wins every now and then

[round swift]

respectfully ididnt get all of this from ai Majority of the data is Basing off of F1 Footages

[woven zinc]

yeah yeah just saying this in case dw

[round swift]

Yea that makes sense

[round swift]

okays But yeah if u guys watch the footages about Regarding the 89 Suzuka race even on 1990 A driver Has Really Said to the Drivers room before the Suzuka 1990 Gp race that using the run off area shouldn't be illegal. as it was used back then in 88 ,87,etc.. without being penalized

so that's why Mr. Ron Dennis said "Where's the consistency"

[woven zinc]

yeah that's understandable

though he did cut the track in this case

[round swift]

iget that but yeah iguess sorry for the exaggeration because that was the citing of the Footages Saying that Senna Would have won the championship. andif iam not mistaken Mr. Prost already had been given the 89 World title after that same 89 suzuka GP So this is not bc of ai but bc of also the footages and The New 2024 Series -"Senna" In 4th or 5th episode iforgot already it was shown that after the 89 suzuka race where they made contact senna wasbanned and Mr. prost instantly gets the 89 wDC after the race ended. (I still might be wrong but this is the most accurate as IAM WRITING THIS DOWN FROM MEMORY. SO IF YOU WANT A REAL ACCURATE ONE you should watch footages and F1 official data.)

[round swift]

iguess but that's why it was debated too back then in 89 and 90s. Cause of how Unfair that was and even considering that the run off had its own Obstacles before getting back on track you can see it both in series "senna" andthe 2010 movie "Senna" If I'm not mistaken it was part of the movie too.

So like That's why Ron Dennis Anda driver said "there's was a big fuckup with ayrton last year" In 1990

So yeah he was banned Fpr cutting When the same runoff was used previous years before 89 itself. So why ban him

so that makes sense why It was seen as senna was being attacked and targeted

[tribal silo]

The Senna/Prost issue in Suzuka was completely mishandled

But there were a lot of conflicts between Balestre and Ron Dennis back then, so the idea of him favouring Prost just because he was French is a bit exaggerated

[crimson saddle]

I still don't understand why they didn't disqualify Senna for getting back on the track with help from the marshals, it would be a much less controversial decision

[crimson saddle]

(technically they helped to push start the car but you get the point)

[tribal silo]

Because if the car was in a dangerous position, regulations back then allowed it to be pushed by the marshalls

[idle gale]

You know seeing how the current Red Bull cars have the notoriety of a difficult car to drive by some compared to the team's lead driver reminds me of the traits of the 1994 Benetton B194

A really twitchy, oversteery car to drive that needed an aggressive setup and certain driving styles to drive, which Michael managed to tame but his teammate didn't

[desert plover]

Same with the 1995 Benetton B195

Bin Laden family sponsored the 1979 Williams F1 car. One of F1’s most unexpected sponsorships ever

[past drift]

they became wealthy by getting loads of public construction contracts in saudi arabia

[round swift]

the FIA rules n regulations ofc wasnt the same back then in 80s and 90s that's why

[crimson saddle]

I see why marshalls would have to move thr car, I don't see why the car was allowed to continue the race as normal, but ok

still, seems like a moral plausible argument to disqualify senna

[distant garnet]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/DL0K4sjolF4/?igsh=bnAzeWhpcmtuc2F3

f1._history (@f1._history)

October 23, 1993 – Suzuka
Some days come back to you for no particular reason. Not because of what happened after, but because of what, quietly, happened before.
We were staying at the same hotel. I opened the door to my room, and at that exact moment, the door next to mine opened too. It was Ayrton.
“Where are you going?”
“To Tokyo Disneyland, just for a walk.”
He smiled. “Can I come too?”
And so we ended up there, just the two of us, surrounded by music, mascots, and wide-eyed children. He walked slowly, taking everything in as if he wanted to memorize every detail. He seemed happy. Not loudly happy, but quietly and peacefully so, the kind of happiness that only shows itself to those who know how to recognize it.
Eventually, we got hungry. We stopped at a fast food place, the air full of that familiar smell of grilled meat and fries.
“I’m getting a hamburger,” I said.
He turned to me, eyes lighting up: “You know, I haven’t had one in two years\…

InstaFix

There's more on the description,just saying

[round swift]

It's a run off The same runoff used in 88 and 87 and 86 Before the 89 Suzuka race itself The cars that ended up spinning out on to the Runoff or just simply Gets leaned into the run off more then they have no choice but to go through the runoff instead of the track but this is not called cutting whether they kept a good momentum of the car through getting in and out.of the runoff and getting back on track or not Like sennas Case he Lost a considerable large amount of time after that contact with prost the Marshals helped him because he had to get the Car off the grass etc and Get back on track and on the run off because simply continuing on the track itself is kind of more of a cutting than going through the run off that had obstacles innit And he was disqualified for that

[round swift]

Idk how to tell you butyou should know to yourself a runoff is made for a purpose. to continue racing while some runoff may eat lots of Seconds too that adds a challenge to drivers to get back on their positions. you should know run off is made For the drivers to continue not to get disqualified . so idont get why why you don't see the drivers are allowed to continue the race after going through it.

[round swift]

Ron Dennis and many, many others who witnessed that event and its aftermath. The consensus among a vast segment of the F1 community, including key figures like Ron Dennis, was indeed that Senna did not gain an advantage, and the disqualification was a political maneuver.

ill summarize it for you why Ron Dennis and many like him felt this way.

The "Cut" vs. Reality: As ihave pointed out, Senna lost significant time, had to be pushed by marshals, and his car was damaged. From a practical racing perspective, he gained no "advantage" in terms of time or position by his re-entry. The argument from his camp was that he took the only viable route to continue, as turning sharply to go through the chicane might have been impossible or even more dangerous given the circumstances. Ron Dennis, being intimately familiar with the car's state and the on-track situation, would have had a very clear view that no sporting advantage was gained.

Inconsistency with Past Incidents: This is my core point, If other drivers had used that run-off in a similar manner (bypassing the chicane after an incident) and gone unpunished, then the application of the rule against Senna was inconsistent and discriminatory. While exact parallels are hard to find due to varying circumstances, the spirit of penalizing an advantage was certainly challenged by the Senna situation.

• Jean-Marie Balestre's Role: This is the smoking gun for many.
  Prost's Nationality - Balestre was French, as was Prost. The perception of favoritism was strong.
  Public Statements & Actions: Balestre's initial strong stance against Senna, including the heavy fine and suspended license, and his labeling of Senna as a "dangerous driver," fueled the belief that this was personal and political.

Fia Pres Balestre's Role: This refers to the strong belief, confirmed years later by Balestre himself, that the then-FIA President intentionally influenced the outcome of the 1989 championship in favor of Alain Prost, due to perceived political motivations and French nationalism. This is often cited as the primary reason unfairness of Senna's disqualification.

Idk if you still don't get why After all these information idropped

[edgy aspen]

His point is not about Senna using the run off to get back on track, but about the marshalls pushing his car, he thinks he should have been DQ'ed for that

[lean sage]

Key word I see here is "perceived" rather than "proven"

I won't deny there's inconsistency, but I have always felt Balestre's alleged bias has been grossly overexagerated by a combination of Senna's massively passionate supporter base, the general unpopularity of FISA and Balestre and the assertions of media about Senna specifically intended to tell his story in an exciting engaging way (and it sounds way cooler to say "the FIA was plotting his downfall" than "a questionable disqualification was the final nail in the coffin in a losing battle in 1989")

[round swift]

then we'll call it that so no one gets attacked fair and square

[round swift]

ionly said that to let the person know the story But He was indeed the FIA president And he himself has admitted this that his Banning to Senna that time was Because of Being in favor of prost etc.. ionly explained It to the person because that's the real story the F1' community will almost always keep debating about Even when there's already credible data and footages and some. choose to believe something that opposes to it. Ofc to believe is not seeing and seeing is Reality You feel me ? I'm not calling it sennas side but all sides I've explained almost every inch of this story then you put the focus on me Saying that I kind of being biased do note that ionly explained It to the person and did the same thing to everybody else including you . it sounds way cooler to call it fia was plotting his downfall" then we'll call it that whatever you say no pressure ionly dropped the real story But I'm not entirely calling it one-sided for sennas side and nobody else's.

[round swift]

It's not just fans and media it's the man himself admitting it.

If acknowledging the facts makes it sound sensational then so be it . I'm just presenting what happened

[desert plover]

.truth

[north sand]

Prost > Senna

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_nZTMdD614

Also the weird fact that this car had the accelerator pedal in the middle while the brake is on the right side

[past drift]

interesting

maybe the pedal setup wasn’t fully normalised by then

[wary oak]

holy AI chat

[round swift]

truly respect everybody here has their favorite drivers but if prost was better than Senna (though prost is a lightning speed driver himself if Senna wasn't around he would have got 5 or 6 wdc) Then how Come he comes top 20 and Senna being the fastest *Official F1 /And AWS Study confirmed With machine learning using 80s data to 2020 data recalibrating Analyzing who's the fastest Mr. senna comes in first and schumacher 2nd this proves schumi is undoubtedly the fastest of his time too that's why many ppl look up to him too But Ido respect whoever made this prompt to this carlbot

[wary oak]

Qualifying doesnt make you a better driver btw Senna had 65 poles but only 41 wins whereas Prost had 33 poles and 51 wins

Senna used Prost's F1 car setups because he knew he was better for setting up cars

[round swift]

So it's always people Dismissing Information in their faces rather than accepting it

you got official f1 right there

[round swift]

but who did the set up better?

[wary oak]

I am not dismissing anything, but when Senna and Prost faced each other, Prost came out on top both times

[round swift]

if you watch certain footages regarding prosts and senna rivalry prost has admitted to himself Around 90s and 2000s Where He says Senna was truly better and Very focused while he himself was "boring"

[round swift]

I'm not saying they didn't.

I'm saying that Mr.Prost in almost everyway is not that close to senna

considering the f1 data Proves

[wary oak]

the documenty and tv series show bias towards Prost, and he did not like it at all how they portrayed him

[round swift]

Series isn't what I'm talking about that 2024 one?

it's not the only documentary we should watch

[wary oak]

F1 stats prove that Senna was quick in the rain and in qualifying, that's it

[round swift]

okay sure Batlez

let's agree to disagree

cause this ain't going nowhere

[wary oak]

I mean you can look at their stats all you want, its clearly siding towards Prost

[round swift]

The Statistic analysis Is done by humans and Machine learning technology both has been done with the help of aws This data was confirmed in 2020 published in the same year people just can't Accept it

[wary oak]

Prost overall was a more complete driver than Senna

This picture proves it

[round swift]

Then how come doesn't he dominate the same cars with him? why would F1 data say He's top 20 Though he's still very fast he's 20 and why is Senna at number one??

[wary oak]

Prost did dominate, he had more podiums and victories and fastest laps then any other driver in the 1980s

[round swift]

That's with niki laudas times and do Reconsider Ayrton was In Mclaren at Late 80s which is 88

[wary oak]

yes prost had more points than Senna in 88

[round swift]

Then how did Senna keep the 88 championship title?

💥

Ohmylord

[wary oak]

Because in 1988, only the best 11 results counted for points

Lol

[round swift]

Huh

what's your point for best 11 ?

[wary oak]

You didn't know that

[round swift]

he won 88 title if prost had more points he would have kept the 88 title

[wary oak]

Back then not all points counted towards the drivers championship

[round swift]

Ah

[wary oak]

Senna had a total of 94 points and Prost had 105*

[round swift]

Weird yk cus Prost would defo keep that considering FIA pres is a friend of his

[wary oak]

Senna had one more victory than Prost so thats why he won the championship

[round swift]

But Yk we shouldn't base off stats Mr.

Cause

The Qualifying is your performance whoever does best to it it's always most likely the best driver to that track

[wary oak]

Not necessarily, remember when Senna qualified 1.4 seconds ahead of Prost at the 1988 Monaco GP

Senna crashed out because he lost focus

and then Prost won the race

[round swift]

Yeah So the reason for his spin out and crashing onto the wall was bc he recieved a message

from mclaren team radio

Which disrupted his

Flow state

[wary oak]

He was 55 seconds ahead of Prost, and then he blew it

[round swift]

🤠truly respect you but please do note that Even when Senna in 84 85 86 he didnthave the best cars but he Still manages to Take some podiums especially in 84 he was at toleman

[round swift]

that was because of a radio message that said "you're so far ahead slow down"

then he crashed

[wary oak]

Yes he was great in all of those seasons, really all of his seasons he was great except for 1992

[round swift]

92 was hard for him bc of Williams

And 93 too

He kept 90 and 91 bc he had undoubtedly reliable cars

[wary oak]

Not just because of Williams, he just didn't have pace or anything

He retired more often then not

[round swift]

while the 93 mp 4 8 was reliable it wasn't enough for that unfair Williams Fw15

[wary oak]

the MP4/8 had the better chassis in the 1993 season than Williams

There Ford engine was very underpowered thats why

[round swift]

don't base off His actions going off becausehe was being upset already If you compare all the mclaren cars he ever driven mp 4 4 is the quickest and most reliable

[wary oak]

actually his 1991 season he scored more points than in his 1988 season

[round swift]

see you're making your own observations that is battling the "prost>senna" Case itself

[round swift]

That doesn't matter. What matters is car Performance not Season domination/performance

Oh my god

Please

Stop

Basing off

Stats

[wary oak]

Stats tell the story, not just some amazon stat thing lol

[round swift]

Okay batlez

Let's agree to disagree

That's where people get fooled

[wary oak]

Pick a season and we can talk about it

I am literally telling you everything I know

[round swift]

It's like Comparing Mr. LeBron to Mr. Jordan of the NBA

[wary oak]

Not really

Did Lebron and Jordan play with eachother?

No

[round swift]

ididnt say that

Lmao

It's like you're comparing uneven Stats

[wary oak]

Senna and Prost did

[round swift]

It's not stats.

It's performance

[wary oak]

You're making no sense comparing different people in a different sport

[round swift]

you dontget it

itsokay

letsget back to f1

[wary oak]

Yes thats fine

[round swift]

So Basically If you Really look at all the possible footages you can find for Prost and Senna you would always most likely see sennas Onboard shit

[wary oak]

Yes

[round swift]

which I understand It's kind of Because how f1 community is majorly looking up to senna

[wary oak]

Senna was way more aggresive, hence more videos of him

[round swift]

so not only that but the reason why If you look at a video in YouTube by Nico Rosberg

Nico robbers talks with prost

An old prost now ofc

[wary oak]

Yes i've seen the video

[round swift]

So What did he say

[wary oak]

About what?

[round swift]

it's understandable he was more of a the one who doesn't fear death or something

[round swift]

in the whole video

Atleast one part

can you Underlineorhighlight

[wary oak]

I remember from one part of the video Prost basically admitted he had to face that level of harassment from fans around some circuits

I'm not saying Senna is some slouch, hes an amazing driver aswell, just look at the 1988 Japanese GP

Great stuff by him

https://tenor.com/view/alain-prost-tristonho-gif-3876888234015911760

[round swift]

If honestly iwas the one to Take responsibility for doing that top 20 Thing Iwould Say prost would take 4th or 5th maybe 3rd Because Idont think he was that slow In essence . but when compared prost , Senna, schumi

Schumi outshines with his Powerful leveled up car In the bennetton years especially in 94 . I'm not saying prost is A slow driver he's The best if Senna wasn't around.

[wary oak]

Another reason was Senna's 1992 wasn't a good as 1991, because of Schumacher aswell

Prost had a terrible 1991 season and took a sabbatical, so really the only competition was Williams and Schumacher

The Ferrari 643 was terrible aswell, as Prost said it handled like a truck lol

[round swift]

idont know what to reconsider because there's no further information Can be attained regarding sennas downfall in 92 and 93. But yeah again like isaid we have to base off Their driving capabilities meaning we Have to Consider the cars performance how the cars differs to the other Not the drivers actions

but icould say Even on 94 he didn't perform well enough he's admitted to himself And To prost that He's unmotivated to drive without him

so to Close This debate it's highly likely better to respect both views

But the most credible Data we have is the f1 study itself

And it's true The Ferrari was shit

shitbox cars As always

[wary oak]

I would say Senna had one of his greatest drives in 1993

[past drift]

he said 1990 was a dream and 1991 a nightmare

[wary oak]

Yes Prost had a great 1990 season, he could've won the championship too

https://tenor.com/view/ayrton-senna-alain-prost-ferrari-gif-23509325

[round swift]

91 to 95 was seasonsof underperformed f1 ferrari carz

in 96 the moment Schumi joined in the team they got a better car

[past drift]

no 95 they were up there

96 was crap

[wary oak]

jean alesi first and only win in 1995

[round swift]

upto 2004

[past drift]

look at the races in detail and not just the points tally

Michael wasn’t lying when be sais he coule have been champion on the 95 ferrari

[wary oak]

Also last ferrari that had the v12

[past drift]

and that new 3L engine sounded amazing

https://youtu.be/fKw7K3d1o7Q

[wary oak]

Yup its on F1's main YouTube channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAlOrmooZa8

[past drift]

the harmonics of a V12 are really geeat

[idle gale]

Love the fact that you can hear the Honda V10 screaming by over the scream of the Lamborghini V12 of the Lotus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwnQzuKvIdc

[edgy aspen]

The quote, actually "It was like a horrible truck to drive," is taken out of context. This was after a shock absorber had gone, making the car extremely difficult to handle.

[past drift]

oh yeah, remjnds me of

https://youtu.be/wDLuA0fQ1Mw some of the finest onboards of the era

most drivers drove super slowly, Depailler just drove normally

at a time without radial tyres, so sliding was necessary

[crimson saddle]

That's not what I meant, actually. I'm not saying drivers should be disqualified just for going through the runoff. What I said is that I don't see why they were allowed to continue racing after receiving help from the marshals to push-start the car after a crash.
Back then, the rules were obviously different - but as far as I'm aware, if the marshals help you move the car in any way, you're out of the session, which, to me, makes more sense

[round swift]

isee now iget you

[lean sage]

Something that's often overlooked about Prost's career is the 1982-83 Renault period where he could easily have won two titles with less diabolical reliability

[past drift]

and he was bloody fast back then

[tribal silo]

If the car was deemed to be in a dangerous position, the rules allowed it to be push-started

[desert plover]

Yup the Renaults were super fast in qualifying but poor reliability in the race caused Prost to miss the titles

[past drift]

bloody electronic control box

[desert plover]

Do you know if Prost recieved an offer from Renault to drive for them in 1980 instead of McLaren

Because god that McLaren was terrible

[past drift]

let me check what he said

i conveniently have this

[desert plover]

haha nice

"Despite having two years remaining on his contract, he left McLaren and signed with Renault. Prost later explained that he left because the car frequently broke down and because he felt the team blamed him for several accidents"

[past drift]

it doesn’t seem so for Renault, because they had Arnoux who was great and Jabouille who was the sort of architect of the car

but!

when Lauda abruptly retired at the canadian gp of 79, Bernie asked Alain, who declined

he also said no to McLaren for the season ending at the Glen

“I didnt want to miss my entry in the sports by doing an insufficiently prepared trial, so I declined”

but Mayer hadn’t forgotten him, so after having sacked Tambay he asked Alain tk join, who was fine provided he did a test with them

so they went to Paul Ricard with Alain, main driver John Watson and an eventual rival for the seat, Kevin Cogan

Watson set up the car and they did testing in the track.
Prost beat them both

[idle gale]

The Jarno Trulli Express Train

[hardy ravine]

is it just me or do i like the lower-revving cars of this era better?

[hardy ravine]

renault had radial tyres at that time

[past drift]

only Michelin runners, so Renault and Ferrari

but that Tyrrell did not

[past drift]

they revved higher in 95 in particular, because they lowered the displacement from 3.5 to 3L in the aftermath of San Marino

and then its taste, you can’t be wrong about liking or disliking something 😊

[hardy ravine]

i like the sound of the dfvs from the onboards, but unfortuantely, there are a not a lot of them

[past drift]

true

just the regular DFV sound is epic

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPNx37xyRQ0

[idle gale]

The early 1990s were interesting when it came to engines. Because they had V8s, V10s and V12s racing against each other

[mighty ginkgo]

it shouldve been the other way around

[past drift]

why should it have been that way?

[mighty ginkgo]

oh wait senna or prost

[past drift]

Prost

[mighty ginkgo]

oh mb

[desert plover]

I made a python code that grabs the first 160 races and displays all of their stats

[idle gale]

Yesh. It's amazing how Alex Zanardi managed to survive this wreck at Spa in 1993

[desert plover]

Crash was so bad it changed his height

[past drift]

||Like his 2001 crash||

[idle gale]

The Williams Reunion

[lime arrow]

https://youtu.be/vAfnjP5dZsc?si=x2gxe1MXf1zsv01e

Found this interesting documentary about old suzuka when it first opened

[distant garnet]

https://x.com/tcaellc/status/1943153039151337486?t=qwjyw52HLVV9ZV-EMRHx9w&s=19

TCAeLLC (@tcaellc)

A post inspired by a recent one from @LarryMac28. The setup sheet for Robby Gordon’s 2003 Sonoma win in the #31. Thank you Larry Mac for teaching me to keep old notes!

X · Jul 10, 2025, 3:39 AM

[strange stag]

One of the last DTM Class 1 cars. These are the one being sold by Audi:

https://youtu.be/HjlbLVB5az4?feature=shared

[idle gale]

Lotus. Sometimes stands for Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious

[hardy ravine]

"add lightness"

[flat prawn]

“Have you tried using magnesium parts?”

[desert plover]

Im pretty sure the engine and wheels had magnesium 😂

[flat prawn]

Had, not anymore

[desert plover]

No, everything now is carbon fiber, titanium, and aluminium

[fleet wigeon]

Guess clarkson was right about that

[hearty oyster]

when lotus was on fire and i mean literally on fire

[half spindle]

Is it me or his head is being smashed to the steering wheel like Hakkinen in 1995

[half spindle]

He was great with Leyton House

I think

[half spindle]

"From bad to Wurz"

[half spindle]

When Gugelmin had a flying start

[desert plover]

Same with Patrese

[idle gale]

Martin Brundle definitely had one rough F1 driver career

[desert plover]

Tyrrell: Martin, how many fingers am I holding up?

Martin: Tuesday

[past drift]

yeah probably a worse career than his skill should have allowed him

[idle gale]

One of the epitomes of McLaren's known unreliability in the early 2000s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkvudttABcM

The start of the Michael Schumacher Era

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxwNMTxC-FM

[half spindle]

I dont think that was the Grand Prix start but cool

[desert plover]

Nope but this was!

[half spindle]

Yeah I remember that

[half spindle]

Never saw this angle of the crash

[cobalt socket]

I love this old style of f1

[half spindle]

Same

Alongside late 80s and late 90s

[timber warren]

1974 two McLaren schemes

gotta love how sponsorship works

[past drift]

that's when you have non official entries

official McLaren being Marlboro sponsored for the first year, snatching them from BRM

and a semi official entry for Mike the Bike using what might be leftover Yardley budget?

poor sod broke his legs on the Nordschleife while running in a convincing 6th place in the standings, tied with official driver Denny Hulme

[idle gale]

It must have been a weird feeling to Rev Match with the Paddle Shifters, since a lot of F1 cars with the Semi Auto gearbox didn't have the Auto Rev Match/Auto Blipping feature until about the mid 90s when the Fly-By-Wire brakes and throttles became more common thanks to the 1992 and 1993 Williams, I believe

[paper fossil]

Ah yes the Yardley McLaren that I think Revson just gave up as an option

It was a McLaren entered car though

Having got sick and tired of waiting for McLaren and Yardley to patch up their differences, Peter Revson left to join the UOP Shadow team managed by Alan Rees, and had the first of the 1974 Shadows, DN3/1A, to drive in Argentina. Jean-Pierre Jarier suddenly decided he didn’t like March Engineering after they’d given him the equipment to win the 1973 European F2 Championship, and chose to buy himself out of the balance of his four-year contract with Max Mosley. By the satisfied expression on Mosley’s face, we concluded that privilege must have swallowed most of his retainer from UOP. Jarier used Oliver’s car from Watkins Glen, DN1/6A, in Argentina, as the second 1974 Shadow will not be ready until the European races.

I get the impression from Jody that McLaren didn’t want him flat out but perhaps that was because at Canada 73 they hadn’t yet figured out they would have 3 cars

Ik he thought he would be replacing Revson

[lean sage]

I've always felt that F1's rule mandating totally identical liveries within teams is a bit strict

I understand not allowing something like the dual livery BAR concept where both cars look totally different

But I think a bit of freedom to distinguish more between the two cars (more than just t-cam colour and sometimes wheel guard accent) would be useful

[timber warren]

i thought it was because the fact that Yardley and McLaren still had a contract agreement, hence a third car??

or am i wrong

[hardy ravine]

many people copied the leyton house floor from that

[upper relic]

Is it weird that I watched the whole thing?

[hardy ravine]

two different models too

[mighty ginkgo]

what

[hearty cobalt]

We don't have any proof to go off of to base your claims so there's nothing we can do

If you have proof to send us use modmail

[analog island]

how do I use mod mail 😭

[hearty cobalt]

@analog island @valid latch if you guys have proof, DM the modmail bot and we can take better action through there, coming in and spamming messages is not ok. Just send a DM like you would a normal user and it will ask you which server to connect to. Also please stop using this chat to discuss it

[analog island]

I know that was not me spamming messages I apologize for him spamming it.

[hearty cobalt]

Saying it in general

[analog island]

I was apologizing

[idle gale]

You know, I reckon Williams between 2001 and 2003 had some untapped potentials for their cars. They arguably had the most powerful engine on the grid but their chassis wasn't all up to spec, especially when you compare them to the chassis of the Ferraris and the McLarens

[past drift]

yeah apparently tthey were really let down by their subpar chassis. big what if cause they looked so good, especially in 2003

i remember praying Juan could beat the Michael for the title

[valid latch]

rah

peace

[paper fossil]

This is pretty accepted

The car was the limitation

[paper fossil]

sort of weird how David Coulthard's top line career just stops after he almost wins the first three races of 2003

after Brazil he is mostly anonymous compared to breakthrough star Raikkonen and because the renamed MP4-18(19) is a challenge until France the following season he only then puts in some decent enough qualifying performances before leaving after 9 seasons there

[desert plover]

Does someone want to delete these

[paper fossil]

❓

[idle gale]

Derek and Martin

[desert plover]

Someone spammed some crypto stuff that’s why

[hardy ravine]

ironic how he came back to the team he was blocked form joining 4 years earlier

[paper fossil]

not like it was anything to do with Lotus though

just a certain Sao Paulo Taxi driver

[past drift]

and that meant 4 years too late, approximately

[round swift]

why f1…

[past drift]

huh?

[young surge]

bro what

[hardy ravine]

yeah

[agile zenith]

Today 30 years ago Michael Schumacher won the German Grand Prix at Hockenheim making him the first german F1 driver to win it

[tame current]

Nice!

[stray iron]

hell yea. new to the server here but longtime f1 fan, remember watching that race when i was 7

for whatever reason i distinctly remember it felt like a dominant win but looking back semi recently Coulthard wasn't that far behind

[distant garnet]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/DMqEoqexN8O/?igsh=MWp1bHN2bnA0YjQ0ag==

Archive Racing🏎️🏁 (@archiveracing)

In the early 1990s, tuning giant HKS boldly set out to engineer its own Formula 1 powerplant, a native 3.5 L V12 with five valves per cylinder, high-revving to 13,500 rpm, and delivering around 650–680 PS (640-670 HP) on standard pump fuel. Code-named the 300E, this wheel-to-piston project included dyno and real-track shakedown tests in a modified Lola T91/50 chassis at Fuji Speedway, earning it the unofficial title “Japan’s fifth domestic F1 engine” after Honda, Yamaha, Mugen, and Subaru.

While the 300E never raced, the feat remains a testament to HKS’s engineering ambition. It was the only Formula 1–spec V12 ever built by a Japanese tuning company, demonstrating that world-class motorsport talent can emerge outside OEM walls. The engine has since been displayed at events like Tokyo Auto Salon, preserving HKS’s dream of entering F1 and reminding us that passion often precedes opportunity.

via @hks_japan

#f1 #formula1 #hks #jdm #motorsport #rac…

InstaFix

[idle gale]

The 1990s were the Wild West Days of Formula 1, wasn't it. Especially when it came to the engines and electronics

We had teams using the likes of Judd, Cosworth, Mugen, Yamaha and even Lamborghini

[stray iron]

Speaking of Lamborghini

Did you notice in the f1 movie (spoilered if you haven’t seen)
||The footage of Sonny’s 90s f1 career ending crash is

1. clearly CGI Brands Hatch instead of Jerez
2. audio of a Ferrari 641 v12 instead of the Lambo v12 from the Lotus 102? ||

[desert plover]

Yeah I was talking about that the day it came out

[paper fossil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MnX6kQLYxc

[distant garnet]

https://x.com/autosport/status/1950862895287320910?t=dKRuWOeWBQGtHtRZK1Np4g&s=19

Autosport (@autosport)

31 years ago today, a terrifying moment for Jos Verstappen and his team during what was supposed to be a regulation pit stop at the German Grand Prix at Hockenheim.

Fuel sprayed onto the Benetton driver and his car as the crew fumbled in attaching the refuelling rig. A split

X · Jul 31, 2025, 10:15 AM

[stray iron]

Steve Matchett's book about the '94 season is fascinating, in particular his recounting of the fire

[stray iron]

excited to give this one a listen!

[stray iron]

2/3 through, two hilarious things so far

1 - Peugeot blaming Brundle for the engine blowing up on the grid at Silverstone
2 - Ron Dennis actually admitting that Philippe Alliot was the worst driver he ever had at McLaren

[idle gale]

Stefan Bellof's relatively short F1 career

[past drift]

at the Dutch GP for his last race

still driving for Uncle Ken, although he was supposedly moving to Ferrari

[hardy ravine]

he had to overtake alesi in the chicane for that right

[past drift]

no thats the european gp at the nurb

looks like the Michael was fighting DC that race

[hardy ravine]

oh german gp not european

[stray iron]

wonder what would have transpired in that race had damon hill not gotten the yips and thrown it away on lap 2

[idle gale]

Damon in the Arrows at Hungary

[stray iron]

Also a great what-if!

[radiant zealot]

The 80's and 90's when the Rally was better than F1

[paper fossil]

Debatable

[strange stag]

https://youtu.be/5To4Lxp-7v4?feature=shared

[idle gale]

One of the most interesting contract dispute that came out in the early to mid 2000s

Jenson signed a second drive contract with Williams for 2006 which led to a bit of a kerfuffle with BAR-Honda. But ultimately, he stayed with BAR for 2006 for a number of reason but allegedly because of Williams' sharp decline in performance around that time

Similar to what happened with Alex Palou in Indycar back in 2022, come to think of it

[hushed dagger]

On this day in 1957, Fangio delivered one of the biggest Masterclass in history of F1 by catching 48 seconds on Collins & Hawthorn, getting 9 fastest lap on second half of the race and overtaking them in the final lap

[stark crater]

Whats your favorite f1 car from the 1950s and 60s?

[past drift]

Lotus 49

[paper fossil]

Bought himself out of a contract

The CRB ruling that blocked his intended move for 2005 is more of the one that got BAR worked up

[hardy ravine]

nurburgring

[hardy ravine]

yup same as reb.

[stark crater]

What would you consider to be deadliest. 70s f1 or Group b rally

[tame current]

You didnt ask me but it has to be group B coz it also includes the spectators

[paper fossil]

Eagle T1G

[idle gale]

I guess this was a small tribute to how Enzo Ferrari got the inspiration for the famed prancing stallion logo

[half spindle]

.truth

[north sand]

Prost > Senna

[long kindle]

fax

.truth

[north sand]

Prost > Senna

[foggy vigil]

Facts

[young surge]

.truth

[north sand]

Prost > Senna

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t8ronIHecU

[stark crater]

How successful was Toleman

[past drift]

not very, they were a small team with a rather bad engine

they struck gold in 84 with Senna though, he managed 3 podiums and they finished 7th in the standings, ahead of Alfa Romeo, Ligier or Arrows

but they were successful enough to be purchased by Benetton who had deeper pockets and went on to be actually successful, with titles in 94 and 95 with the Michael
also that's where Rory Byrne started in F1, who was a key component of the Ferrari era of dominance in the early 2000s

[idle gale]

"Aerodynamics are for people who can't make engines"

• Enzo Ferrari

"Turbochargers are for people who can't make engines"

• Keith Duckworth

[past drift]

Duckworth really said that?

[idle gale]

Allegedly so, yeah

[hardy ravine]

my outright favourite is lotus 49(B) as mentioned earlier.

but i also think the sharknoses look pretty cool

[hardy ravine]

both of them resisted change.
change that revolutionised the sport.

their once successful operation lagged behind the field now.
ferrari in 1968/69 was bad too

[past drift]

the Ferrari 156, or the Eagle T1G

[paper fossil]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtLUlbXWiD0

[paper fossil]

the 312 was actually in its 68 iteration a highly competitive car that Ickx and particularly Amon should have won multiple races in

it was a handful of instances where the amon and ferrari were foiled that prevented this

Chris could have easily won or contended for the championship

despite being a driver of mercurial nature and definitely not as good as peak Stewart/Hill

1969 is forgettable and then Forghieri returned to the design and race team after a year out to do a sportscar and all of a sudden they were good again but unfortunately had Ickx as lead driver and not someone like Stewart

[desert plover]

At the Canadian Grand Prix, the "Bring Back Hockey" slogan featured on the airbox as a reaction to the 2004-05 NHL lockout.

[stark crater]

I need the model of this car

[hardy ravine]

ferrari

[drowsy ruin]

explains why the ferraris have the aerodynamics of a drick nowadays

[paper fossil]

Hardly

[stark crater]

This Toyota goes so hard. Was it successful?

[past drift]

as all Toyotas in f1, no

[desert plover]

The remains of David Purley's crash at the 1977 British Grand Prix. He survived but sustained multiple bone fractures after his car's throttle stuck open and he crashed into a wall. His deceleration from 108 mph to 0 in a distance of 26 inches is one of the highest G-loads survived in a crash (180 G).

[idle gale]

"What engine have they got in the back of that Sauber, Murray? Isn't it a Ferrari?"

"Ah, well. Yes, it is. Haha, Martin, you are a cynical chap"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yh-w9D2_JpE

[hushed dagger]

Leyton House with her very clean livery
Hungary 1988

[paper fossil]

No not really

Made Panis decide to quit a race early that’s for dammn sure

[past drift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGWnhmQZKII i wonder what the original video showed, the counters of revs just jump

[stark crater]

6 wheel appreciation

[paper fossil]

one of the most forgotten sponsors for a front running team

i guess

looked better in the blue and yellow let's be honest

[past drift]

on the next Tyrrell, the 008, it looks great

[paper fossil]

still don't like

compared to at least the original plain blue with elf and ford branding on the 001-007 range

[past drift]

so what do you think of the 1979 model then

[paper fossil]

009 had two drivers I like greatly in it

Neither are Pironi

[idle gale]

Essentially the first F1 car to compete in races with a carbon fibre chassis. Which might have saved John Watson's life after he wrecked at Monza in 1981

[rocky quest]

Fernando Alonso's Pole Lap in Magny-Cours (2004)

[idle gale]

"And what is Deletraz doing?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUhOYBpzp1M

[agile zenith]

https://fixupx.com/ScuderiaFerrari/status/1956679834962395252

Scuderia Ferrari HP (@ScuderiaFerrari)

P1 for Niki! 🏁
︀︀Our Austrian puts it on pole at Monza in front of the Tifosi, while Clay claims P2 to lock out the front row for the team.
︀︀
︀︀#MonzaRewind

**💬 10 🔁 98 ❤️ 1.4K 👁️ 67.9K **

▶ Play video

FixupX · Aug 16, 2025, 11:30 AM

[desert plover]

"Michael, you have 19 laps to pull out 25 seconds. We need 19 qualifying laps from you" - Ross Brawn to Michael Schumacher during the 1998 Hungarian Grand Prix

P.s he won the race by ten seconds

[idle gale]

Michael driving on 3 wheels after that crash with David

[hushed dagger]

Benetton's early years

[past drift]

best BMW user that year

[paper fossil]

Benetton engineers did a neat thing with that engine

speicfically the chip installed on it for boost i believe

i don't have the rebels book with me atm so i'll have to get back to that later on in the week

[past drift]

putting it upstraight was a nice thing to begin with

and Rory Byrne was a great engineer and he could finally show it with the Hart ditched

[tame current]

It looks like it's breathing, so cool https://vxtwitter.com/MotorsportMP4/status/1957027574816596142

Motorsport MP4 (@MotorsportMP4)

Williams’ revolutionary active suspension system delivered Nigel Mansell the championship in 1992, but it was banned in 1994 💀

▶ Play video

vxTwitter / fixvx · Aug 17, 2025, 10:31 AM

[hardy ravine]

lapped 10 times. 10 TIMES!

[hardy ravine]

it won a race too.
1976 sweden

wait thinking of it

1976 sweden was won by six wheels

1977 sweden was ligier's first win

1978 sweden was won by the fan car

oh yeah

1975 austria was won by a person who then proceeded to spin out

1976 won by a penske

1977 won by a shadow

1978 was peterson's last win

[hardy ravine]

that's the car that i can find the most onboards of in the 70s

[hardy ravine]

i like the 1976 p34 better. share wiggy's views that i like the plain blue

[hardy ravine]

wow this looks much better than the elf livery

[past drift]

Depailler is one of the only drivers of the era to go full blast during onboards

[hardy ravine]

only the long beach one in my opinion

[past drift]

the wet montreal as well

[hardy ravine]

oh yeah seen that

but why is it that it is mostly tyrrell only?

only in 1978 you ars starting to get other teams

[past drift]

great question!

[idle gale]

The times Ferrari put blue on their cars

[hardy ravine]

and they won the championship in that blue

in one crazy race

mexico 1964

Michele Leclere in the 1975 United States Grand Prix

[stark crater]

Can we all just appreciate the castrol tom supra

[half spindle]

I thought it was leclerc

[idle gale]

The dominators of their respective series in the 1990s

[hardy ravine]

that was me at first. i was watching the 1975 season, and it goes "tyrrell has a third driver for the last race of 1975, leclere"

[hardy ravine]

Graham Hill giving his visor to Jo Siffert

[idle gale]

Just to clarify. Walter Wolf didn't buy the Williams team that we know back in 1976 to become Walter Wolf Racing, he bought Frank Williams' first racing team, Frank Williams Racing Cars

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQhdBGhjQb4

[half spindle]

Temu Lotus

[past drift]

so much temu that their first season their driver finished 2nd in the championship , ahead of the first Lotus

[half spindle]

Yes

Temu lotus power 🗣🔥

[desert plover]

GOATs

[half spindle]

"Getty Images" 🔥

[idle gale]

I love the fact that you can actually see a glimpse of Jackie's infamous accident at the Masta Kink on the old Spa layout in Grand Prix 1966

[hardy ravine]

one of three teams (other than 1950 british gp and indy 500) to win their first grand prix

[hardy ravine]

the one that started his safety crusade

[half spindle]

Thats nice

Btw the livery looks like its a lotus ripoff

[tame current]

<@&781898349006684170> scam

[desert plover]

Pretty sure that was Phil Hill driving the Camera F1 car

Imagine doing 135 mph through Masta Kink WHILE it is raining... absolutely crazy!