my man still has the title
#classic-motorsport
hidden drift
past drift
didnt he finish and get all the podiums that year
yes he always finished on the podium that year
the last year of this points ruleset they made what hadn’t bern done before, and is no longer possible: score as many points as all the other teams combined
mighty ginkgo
the last year of this points ruleset they made what hadn’t bern done before, and...
it is possible nowadays but only with a wild amount of dnfs
also even in 2002 you still had to win every race and make your teammate finish in second
past drift
it is possible nowadays but only with a wild amount of dnfs
true, i didnt think about that
autumn marsh
Twitter
iron shadow
idk how "classic" 2010 is but what on earth happened here
australian gp 2010 fp1, this is kobayashi
simply??? how
it FOLDED
iron shadow
this was one of 3 times kobayashi's front wing got f'd up within this weekend 😭 by the third time bro was probably like omg not this again
im trying to watch 2010 right now and the way that they dont tell you quali further than 8th or race results further than 10th is just horrible
sauber being trash... likely place for them to be
iron shadow
im trying to watch 2010 right now and the way that they dont tell you quali furt...
& no sidebar telling where ppl are in DURING the race either? its horrible
alas i feel like if i google that i'll just spoil the entire race result for myself
ill try that tomorrow maybe
this racing is so weird
so many reliability issues
so many driver errors
driver errors hardly get punished in the race, you can get back to the back of the grid and then fight your way up easily
overtakes are entirely based on how big your balls are
past drift
lets not mention its name
idle gale
paper fossil
08 is a pretty extreme end of poor driver performance across a season
To the point the best driver that year was Kubica
Rather than the championship contenders
99 would probably be the same
river cave
'99 is a bit different
Mainly because by far the best driver that season sat out half of it with a broken leg
Where as 2008, Ferrari were having a competition of who could be the most mid across a season and Hamilton had issues with consistency
woven zinc
yep
if Schumi hadn't had that accident he'd be a 8-time WDC without a single doubt
on the other hand that would've meant that he would've set a WDC record that most likely wouldn't even have been equalled by now 🤣
paper fossil
Where as 2008, Ferrari were having a competition of who could be the most mid ac...
Massa and Hamilton were having a mid off
Hakkinen and Irvine much the same the difference would probably more be in the mechanicals Mika suffered while in positive positions during grand prix
Britain and Germany come to mind
Austria he’s punted around by his teammate
On the opposite end he makes mistakes in both Italian rounds
Poor start in Monaco
And disappears for half the race in Europe 99
river cave
if Schumi hadn't had that accident he'd be a 8-time WDC without a single doubt
That brings up everyone's favourite late 2000's question; where does Schumacher finish if he stays alongside Kimi for '07 and '08
woven zinc
I think he would've def won 2008, 2007 is a bit more of a question mark though
fathom orchid
Understeery lol
paper fossil
i think he would have won 07 quite easily
he was by far the most experienced driver on the control bridgestone tyres that were being used
idle gale
One way to get around the Tobacco Sponsorship ban in some countries. Put the driver's name on the cars instead
river cave
i think he would have won 07 quite easily
with the McLaren fighting each other and Kimi having a dip in form in the middle of the year, Michael's experience would've come out on top
2008 is probably similar with Kimi having an even worse slump, meaning his only competition would be Hamilton and he very nearly lost to Massa
paper fossil
I’ll get the summary of the cars later
But the McLaren had a tendency to ruin either its fronts or rears and this is a good reason for them being quicker at low speed circuits
And traction zones
Everything Raikkonen hated about driving the F2007
river cave
You could also try to pull an agrument that maybe BMW puts more development into the 2008 car but that's clutching at straws tbh
paper fossil
the Ferrari was probably in fact quicker
With a weaker line up
And had a narrower working window for set up
river cave
Generally from what i've seen that's been the agreed view
paper fossil
That heavily punished Raikkonen
river cave
the F2007/2008 were faster than the McLaren's
just that McLaren had the stronger lineup
paper fossil
High speed stuff
river cave
well except 2008
paper fossil
The Ferrari was nearly always quicker
river cave
but that's a different story
paper fossil
Heck it had the biggest winning margin by far in a gp
Michael didn’t make a lot mistakes later in 06 and was probably on top form
I would say by courtesy of the tyre compound they used from 07-10 being similar in traits to the pre 05 Bridgestones that he had lapped millions of miles around Fiorano
He would win those titles
Luca backed the wrong horse
past drift
Luca backed the wrong horse
being?
i wonder if he really tried to oust the Michael
or if he just wanted to show him he wasn't the boss
show to him and Todt
paper fossil
being?
Michael
Well
The wrong horse was going for Raikkonen because he thought Michael was past it
And the team quickly finding out that although Kimi wasn’t quite good they weren’t getting what they thought they were
bronze fern
Fr
river cave
And the team quickly finding out that although Kimi wasn’t quite good they weren...
The issue wasn't Kimi not being good as people thought; everyone saw the McLaren stint and saw him butcher JPM despite his reputation
What they didn't account for was how limited his window was
He forever struggled at Ferrari, but when he went to Lotus he was back on form
paper fossil
Yeah but dig deeper and he was barely quicker than Grosjean either
It changed once Michelin left Formula One
And he never recovered back to his pre 07 form
They expected Kimi would be as brilliant for the team in general in the same way Michael had been
But he wasn’t
He was just a moderately quick driver as Massa was for them too
How you going to build anything from that?
So as far as Ferrari were concerned in 2008 they were happy to back Massa over Raikkonen to a certain point
They changed the suspension in Germany which was probably the only race it actually performed poorly in (mostly just the drivers being terrible) and told Raikkonen to get on with it and drive around the issues
craggy ember
Given the gap in the schedule, I'd thinking about watching a classic season over the next few weeks. I've already watched 2012, does anyone have reccomendations for agreat seasons wiith champioinship fights?
river cave
Given the gap in the schedule, I'd thinking about watching a classic season over...
2010, 2003, 2005
2007, 2008
2009 if you don't mind the boring start
edgy aspen
1982 😉
river cave
There isn't that much full coverage of 1982
Even going back to the 1990's, F1 still hasn't provided race highlights for some races
edgy aspen
yeah, i know. Still, it's the craziest season IMO
junior mirage
idk how "classic" 2010 is but what on earth happened here
hahahaha
river cave
yeah, i know. Still, it's the craziest season IMO
By far
At least what, 4 different teams having a chance of winning the title
3 drivers in contention into the final race, one of them not even racing
The guy who did win it did it through consistency
Which I have to say people give Keke shit for that
Well he didn't crash, the Williams didn't break down
He gained points on everyone around him
You can't win half the races and claim you deserve the title when you didn't finish the other half
desert plover
Given the gap in the schedule, I'd thinking about watching a classic season over...
1997
1999
past drift
Sauber C14 appreciation post
First win for Benetton (Mexico 1986 with Gerhard Berger)
Last win for Benetton (Germany 1997 with... Gerhard Berger)
south tree
Sauber C14 appreciation post
1995, correct?
past drift
1995, correct?
aye
past drift
i agree, before the headrest some were proper lookers
river cave
The season with some of the best looking cars
I prefer the high nose cars
the low noses look like aardvarks trying to sniff the ground
river cave
First win for Benetton (Mexico 1986 with Gerhard Berger)
Last win for Benetton (...
i love the fact i got to ask him about Mexico lol
past drift
i love the fact i got to ask him about Mexico lol
what did you ask him about that race?
river cave
what did you ask him about that race?
not much, it was from the Race members club interview they did
Mostly it boiled down to how did that race win affect his career and how does he rank it amongst his other grand prix wins
the irony i'm realising is if someone went back and listened to that interview, people would realise i used my actual name
whoops
river cave
and what did he reply?
uhhhhh
first part was a big of a generic answer, mostly going into how it lifted a big weight off his shoulders getting the first win and how it helped get him into Ferrari
i have to go back to it to see what he said about the second part
also tbh i doubt most people paid to get access to the Race Member's club lol
past drift
ah it’s not like on yt
river cave
Nah
Patreon and their website
Unless they release it later down the line like they did with Mansell
idle gale
Do love some old footages of a classic layout of a race track
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKddIXF-RQc&ab_channel=LarsHalvardRødberg
paper fossil
another lost Amon win
hidden drift
Schumacher's Ferrari F2001 Championship Winner Veichle
warm sandal
Collection of Tom Pryce photos Kyalami, 1977
dreamy vault
Some guy on tiktok has beef with the 1973 season. Its so random that its funny
(The post was about f1 seasons that deserve movies)
oblique dock
Some guy on tiktok has beef with the 1973 season. Its so random that its funny
.......but why
Also, 1973 literally had Jackie Stewart's last F1 title, Francois Cevert's death at Watkins Glen, the death of Roger Williamson at Zandvoort, and Ronnie Peterson's first ever season with Team Lotus
not to mention Jody Scheckter's infamous multi car pileup at Silverstone
river cave
Some guy on tiktok has beef with the 1973 season. Its so random that its funny
was 1973 a competative season?
or was it more Stewart takes the lead of the title and runs with it?
river cave
Collection of Tom Pryce photos Kyalami, 1977
unfortunate really
desert plover
was 1973 a competative season?
The first half of the season was pretty competitive
river cave
The first half of the season was pretty competitive
i see
3 wins a piece by monaco for Stewart and Fittipaldi
it's just Emmo suffered from Lotus' unreliablity in the second half
past drift
yes
paper fossil
or was it more Stewart takes the lead of the title and runs with it?
More competitive than 71
The 72 was still probably the better car
And then the M23 was introduced too and was on pace with both the 006 and 72
Revson a reasonable enough driver could win multiple GP in it
river cave
Revson a reasonable enough driver could win multiple GP in it
yes i noticed McLaren took a few wins that year
dreamy vault
or was it more Stewart takes the lead of the title and runs with it?
Well Peterson and Fittipaldi were pretty good rivals, and overall the story of the season was good
olive folio
Some random photos from tumblr idfk
hidden drift
Schumi in '98
round swift
Bruce McLaren in his McLaren M7C making his way through the Monaco streets to the urban circuit for the Friday qualifying. 1969 Monaco GP
south tree
Collection of Tom Pryce photos Kyalami, 1977
Wasn’t this the race where he died?
oblique dock
Yes
mighty ginkgo
Bruce McLaren in his McLaren M7C making his way through the Monaco streets to th...
i thought this was part of the monaco gp circuit itself 💀
scenic gale
Schumi in '98
Coulthard’s Nightmare lol
hidden drift
Coulthard’s Nightmare lol
exactly :D
hidden drift
Oh shit Chumaker
yuo will pay for making me place 3rd in the 2006 istanbul gp fernunda.
😡
scenic gale
yuo will pay for making me place 3rd in the 2006 istanbul gp fernunda.
Not my fault you were breaking because you had wife and 2 children home
hidden drift
Not my fault you were breaking because you had wife and 2 children home
shit youre right furnando 😡 you have no wife and kids.
scenic gale
tribal silo
Some random photos from tumblr idfk
That's Koinigg's helmet. He died 50 years ago
olive folio
That's Koinigg's helmet. He died 50 years ago
I know
warm sandal
Collection of Tom Pryce photos Kyalami, 1977
More Tom Pryce photos at the race he died.
strong patrol
not sure if this is the right channel but can anyone tell me what this yellow snowman lookin logo is? I can tell it says “mode” but google doesn’t provide anything and I’m just wondering what it is.
On the Renault R26 btw
it’s all over the car
paper fossil
it is the whole logo
as in i-mode
some soon to be defunct japanese internet service
strong patrol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-mode
Tysm man
I thought the I was like a person or sum idk
scenic gale
opal apex
Nah it looks more like cardboard
willow gorge
Thats a real picture
😭
desert plover
I think he means Clay Regazzoni
Oh, I don't think its Regazzoni
river cave
Oh, I don't think its Regazzoni
maybe, i don't see the swiss cross on the front of his helmet
desert plover
maybe, i don't see the swiss cross on the front of his helmet
His name is Geoff Lees
river cave
His name is Geoff Lees
He looks like he's wearing one of those skull helmets
looks similar to what De Angelis used to wear
south tree
looks similar to what De Angelis used to wear
I have a miniature of this car, De Angelis version
past drift
Maybe 1969?
yes that’s in 69 after they banned wings from high pylons attached to the suspension
by creating one of the oldest aero rules of f1: “no moveable aerodynamic devices”
after the spanish gp in barcelona where these high wings breaking caused many accidents
elfin siren
Likely took sometimes to have New Version of the Front Wings
past drift
not that much actually, many cars started being built with wings in mind, such as this Matra MS80
but the wings were very rudimentary, i dont know if teams used wind tunnels already
i mean, if any team did
they were still fiddling around in 1970 when Rindt died, his car wore no rear wing at Monza to see if it would make it faster overall
elfin siren
Sometimes change to the Wings is the Important One
paper fossil
The same grand prix they had solutions
Matra were particularly good with these things early on
Most of the teams if they were doing wind tunnel tests were using external ones
past drift
ye, i think Matra is the first to come up with a chassis that was designed around wings
so they couldn’t fully comply with what Monaco demanded as a consequence
charred prawn
not that much actually, many cars started being built with wings in mind, such a...
theyd probably have tested them on a runway or something
past drift
(wings were banned or something of the sort in Monaco 68 and 69)
charred prawn
good to know f1 killing innovation isnt an entirely modern thing
paper fossil
Where the wings bent
past drift
theyd probably have tested them on a runway or something
what Matra did at the time, other than cars, was ballistic missiles. they probably had access to some french military facilities
charred prawn
what Matra did at the time, other than cars, was ballistic missiles. they probab...
very true, id forgotten about that
past drift
their first business was weapons, before doing cars
past drift
Which would give way in 1975
such a wild race that
past drift
Stommelen almost winning, in the end Mass won his only race for half points
paper fossil
As a consequence
past drift
and yeah, spectators died sadly
past drift
As a consequence
oh ok! didn’t know that
charred prawn
Yeah Matra getting into motorsport is because of detente
vaguely along the saab lines then, they went from only making planes to building cars because of low sales
paper fossil
It was probably the best way to make some money
charred prawn
(i think)
paper fossil
And they were very good at it
Well making the cars
As was proven post 1969 they couldn’t really do an engine too well or run the actual team
past drift
they could do one or the other for f1
charred prawn
side note but i always preferred matra's prototypes to their f1 cars
past drift
but not both i suppose
charred prawn
and road cars, dont get me started on the murena
paper fossil
Tyrrell was just a built team though
past drift
yeah sports cars is when they excelled
paper fossil
They had like a number of the best staff on the grid
paper fossil
Like if you look at every step up they make they usually start winning quickly
past drift
whatever. 3 seats in the front
charred prawn
charming but a bit crap
past drift
paper fossil
Can’t believe Hill took his Le Mans victory in a Matra
past drift
Matra had no competition then, didn’t they
he’s been a lot more lucky with the 500
so much luck it’s Stewart who was voted rookie of the year, despite Hill also being a rookie and winning
paper fossil
Well the one he won certainly
paper fossil
Matra had no competition then, didn’t they
There was shadow manufacturer presence at the time
Autodelta would effectively be Alfa Romeo anyway pretty sure they always owned that “tuning company”
I don’t know about the competitive landscape
south tree
There was shadow manufacturer presence at the time
There was also Porsche with their 917, and Ferrari with the 512 and 312PB
The last Works Porsche was from 1972 I believe, the Pink Pig
paper fossil
Twitter
past drift
Poor safety
Jacky Ickx was taken to Madrid and left the hospital with a few superficial burns. The Belgian can consider himself very lucky. Although he owed his minor injuries to his fireproof suit, he had seen death up close. Left to his own devices in the furnace, he nearly died of carbonization without anyone coming to his aid. So, while the infrastructure of the circuits had indeed been improved in previous years, the training of race stewards and the organization of emergency services left much to be desired.
The drivers' association led by Joakim Bonnier and Jackie Stewart would express its dissatisfaction to the CSI.
(Spain 1970)
warm sandal
meager pewter
side note but i always preferred matra's prototypes to their f1 cars
didn't their results also?
Gr.6 was kinda fire
idle gale
The outtake reel of the Pizza Hut commercial featuring Murray and Damon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nafnclzeOYo&ab_channel=chrisjlocke
paper fossil
you seen the original F310?
that is the 73 312B3 isn't it
the car that made Ickx briefly return from his Ferrari disassociation at Monza
where all the same problems he had at Silverstone were still there
might it be fair to say that the whole of Ferrari's 1973 F1 campaign also ended up killing the WSC outfit?
desert plover
that is the 73 312B3 isn't it
Ferrari 312B3 'Spazza Neve'
paper fossil
He didn't enjoy 1973 did Jacky
desert plover
paper fossil
Enzo teared into him
and his ability at this stage of his career was being called into question
but what exactly is to be done when you are qualifying outside the top 10 most of the time and even at some points being the slowest team
paper fossil
that said he wasn't any good at Lotus either and that ultimately ended his serious F1 career
paper fossil
interesting fact is that the most seasons Ickx spent at a team was with Ensign
paper fossil
That was one hella ugly livery
south tree
Didn’t know the F2004 was used as a test mule for a V8
past drift
2004-M is the first adaptation for the 2005 season, but the front wing is wuite low.. 🤔
idle gale
Keep forgetting that the early and late 90s cars were more susceptible to powerslides
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQV-YjisANM&ab_channel=9469832
paper fossil
God were they a handful
charred prawn
worse tyre tech, less downforce and spiky power delivery
not surprising they were a handful
paper fossil
All good things
elfin siren
Never seen this One but this is from 1959
round swift
1970 Spanish GP - Jochen Rindt (Lotus)
quasi monolith
Why does the nose of the car look like a fighter jet ngl
past drift
first car with sidepods
also had anti dive suspension but these were tricky to setup iirc
desert plover
Lotus was pretty innovative. First ones to have inboard brakes, side-mounted radiators in sidepods, aerodynamic wings, ground effect, 4WD, bi-plane rear wing, carbon fibre monocoque, twin-chassis and probably much more
paper fossil
Ground effect (technically not)
4WD no
Aerodynamic wings (technically speaking again no)
I like how a lot of ideas managed to usually find their way to Lotus
And Colin was often the man to make it happen rather than be the originator
round swift
1995 Canadian GP - Jean-Christophe Boullion (Sauber C14)
desert plover
Usually lotus improved on everything they could to win a championship, like what they did with the Lotus 79
Also, the 79 was also the first F1 car to be designed using computer design aids. Lotus was super innovative
The first car to be fitted with active suspension.
98T included a two-stage ride height adjustment, water injection through the intercoolers, an early form of barge board (also present on the 97T), and an advanced (for the time) fuel consumption microcomputer.
past drift
they didnt do it, but it also had pneumatic valves
desert plover
98T had pneumatic valve springs for the first time and the 92 had active suspension
But I guess Mansell did not like it so much even though he would win a championship with one in 1992
past drift
But I guess Mansell did not like it so much even though he would win a champions...
yeah apparently the 92 made him dislike electronic aids a lot
elfin siren
I can't believe this is the Car that is Last to be driven by Ayrton Senna when he join the Team same Year before his Tragic Accident 😕
No wonder why Adrian Newey is charged for what believe to be Manslaughter on the Car
paper fossil
He was acquitted
The whole of the Italian prosecution seems like a sham anyway from reports
paper fossil
Well he was a heavy presence on the grid for only about 6 years at that point
river cave
The whole of the Italian prosecution seems like a sham anyway from reports
The entire argument hinges on the evidence of what might have happened
Even Adrian on the high performance podcast this year stated that from the data Williams had of the accident (a large amount of which was lost when the computer was smashed into the wall) indicated that the car skid and jinxed before going off, which is collaborated by Michael's testimony from seeing the car bottom out, then go off track
To be completely honest, Adrian didn't have much to do with the steering column adjustment, that was the engineers and Head
paper fossil
Williams have always accepted that the column broke but only that the forces exerted in the accident had broken it
round swift
I've watched the analysis and it did break
meager pewter
I can't believe this is the Car that is Last to be driven by Ayrton Senna when h...
why?
Why can't you believe that?
elfin siren
Because i was Born 1 Year before that Incident of Senna happen
paper fossil
I've watched the analysis and it did break
river cave
Williams have always accepted that the column broke but only that the forces exe...
Williams have always argued no one can prove if it broke on track or when it hit the wall
What doesn't help is that the last 2 seconds of Senna's onboard simply doesn't exist apparently
Which tbh I call bullshit on, Bernie held the footage and when the Italians got it, the last 1.6 seconds suddenly weren't there
river cave
The whole thing is just a furball
the steering column is realistcally the most believeable and straightforward answer
but then you have people like Schumacher saying they saw the car bounce and oversteer before going off
and obviously the Benetton onboard is useless because it's got the video quality of a potato and Senna is halfway down the road
if you want to hear Newey's current thoughts on Imola:
desert plover
Mika in 1998 is truly unbeatable
They had a great driver and great designers
The car essentially had ERS too which is kind of funny
paper fossil
Deeply impressive Michael took it to the final round
elfin siren
The Benetton B194 during the 1994 Belgian Grand Prix where Michael Schumacher get Disqualified after winning the Race
desert plover
In 1997–1998, McLaren introduced an additional brake pedal designed to target the back two tires and give drivers more control when navigating curves. Hakkinen and Coulthard lapped the whole field at the 1998 Melbourne opener, worth about 0.5 seconds per lap. Ferrari objected, and it was outlawed for the next race.
fiery sierra
ralf schumacher driving the FW25 in the 2003 British Grand Prix
vague pollen
The Benetton B194 during the 1994 Belgian Grand Prix where Michael Schumacher ge...
Idk if this is a hot take or not but imo the Mild Seven Benettons look better than the Renaults from 2002 - 2006
edgy aspen
This is my favourite Benetton livery
vague pollen
I love how the cars around 84 - 88 looked almost identical to CART cars
river cave
ralf schumacher driving the FW25 in the 2003 British Grand Prix
closest they ever came to a title
frozen prism
Fun Fact: Graham Hill has raced with every champion from 1954-1980
talk about longevity
frozen prism
Idk if this is a hot take or not but imo the Mild Seven Benettons look better th...
an argument can definitely be made
the camel Benettons looked really good too
then there was that period with ING
which depending on person to person looks decent or really bad
paper fossil
Fun Fact: Graham Hill has raced with every champion from 1954-1980
It is a good list
Bruce McLaren has been suggested to have intended to keep going until the age Brabham stopped
Whether it would have been in F1 is questionable
As he tried to effectively get himself out of F1 for 1970
By partnering Stewart with Hulme
Mistake I think
He should have gone with Rindt
past drift
he wanted to focus on being a team owner rather than a driver ?
paper fossil
That said I think Rindt wanted to do Can Am
As well
And have a bunch of guarantees
past drift
idk if Bruce could have won a title with the M23
paper fossil
I imagine he would have been bit part
For the rest of the time up to 1982
Or 81
When he would reach the age Brabham also retired
past drift
ye 1981, wild.
paper fossil
But like there is distinct possibility he’s racing against even more potential world champions
Let’s think
Piquet
Rosberg
Prost
past drift
Jones
past drift
oh true
paper fossil
Because he raced with another privateer
past drift
although technically, they never raced together
as Hill qualified for 2 races in 75, none of them featuring Jones
but he was engaged in more of them races and didn't qualify
paper fossil
he wanted to focus on being a team owner rather than a driver ?
He was planning to retire or just do Can Am
past drift
ok ! makes sense, they were dominating canam
vague pollen
then there was that period with ING
I'd say they don't exactly look good but the 07 - 08 livery is definitely better than the 09 one despite being tainted bc it's famous for CrashGate😅
paper fossil
The ING is pretty iconic now
vague pollen
It's a shame tho bc this was the OG concept livery for 07
paper fossil
It's a shame tho bc this was the OG concept livery for 07
Yes I liked this
I like how they still have the no1 on the car
In the impression
vague pollen
But it is so awful
Tbh I'm starting to think it's not as bad as we remember it but it was only annoying bc it still had a dark blue front & rear wing
vague pollen
And also the yellow lines that ran on the sidepods down to the nose cone were totally unchanged from 2002
Too much leftover from the old livery
paper fossil
Honestly what makes it slightly better than the 09 one is simply because of the car it is on
I prefer the 09 liveried car in this case
vague pollen
It's weird bc it almost looks like the Benetton livery but without the light blue
past drift
i guess the 07 concept is before they lost Telefonica
i really like hte 08 Renault, livery wise
vague pollen
Oh that 2nd pic isn't the 08 livery
vague pollen
i really like hte 08 Renault, livery wise
It's the 09 livery on a 07 or 08 car like what they'd use for demo runs
The actual 08 livery is basically identical the only difference was the shark fin
past drift
Oh that 2nd pic isn't the 08 livery
didn’t say it was, i remember the 08 season and the car looked cool
distant garnet
Well,it was the livery of Alonso's worst Renault years and the Singaporegate
Though Alonso still was able to get a win at Fuji,a podium in Brazil,a pole in Hungary 2009 and a podium at Singapore 2009
vague pollen
Well,it was the livery of Alonso's worst Renault years and the Singaporegate
I mean ye that doesn't help it🤣
Tbh tho I reckon the main reason ppl don't like it is bc of this
It still has the same yellow stripes & lines the 02 - 06 livery had
And also the same dark blue front & rear wings the 04 - 06 cars had
past drift
Tbh tho I reckon the main reason ppl don't like it is bc of this
it’s why i like it lol
vague pollen
Wait hol up
Do u mean u prefer the white & orange to the Mild Seven blue?
Bc tbh ye it does still work pretty good even with the old leftover colours from the 04 - 06 livery
past drift
Do u mean u prefer the white & orange to the Mild Seven blue?
no, but i still like it even tho it’s not blue
vague pollen
I mean tbf I actually prefer the 2002 - 2003 version of the Mild Seven Renault livery
past drift
ye true, front wing looked better
vague pollen
Like the white on the front & rear wings jus give it more contrast
And also imo the dark blue looks better on the airbox
As well as the Mild Seven logos being slightly smaller lol
It's weird tho bc I found this the other day as well
They almost went with this for 04
past drift
that’s hot
but ig the dark blue was for telefonica
for the front wing end plates and the rear wing
paper fossil
I-mode
past drift
also for i-mode, but i meant for the final 2004-2006 designs
paper fossil
Mostly for i-mode
I imagine
The presence of the dark blue came before Telefonica
Presumably it was for that or clearly just a part of Renaults corporate colours
If you take a look at Telefonicas sponsorship of Suzuki and Gresini in grand prix motorcycles
It was all a lighter shade of blue
past drift
Presumably it was for that or clearly just a part of Renaults corporate colours
doubtful, it is yellow
vague pollen
Presumably it was for that or clearly just a part of Renaults corporate colours
It'd make sense why the concept livery for 07 was originally gonna be dark blue
I guess they thought it was like the new version of French racing blue bc it's kinda similar to what Ligier/Prost used from 95 - 01
vague pollen
doubtful, it is yellow
It could also be French racing blue
Although that's never been 1 consistent shade of blue tho🤣💀
past drift
no our racing blue is closer to the mild seven
vague pollen
It's weird bc Ligier & Prost clearly wanted their cars to be that blue
But they did it a bit too dark
past drift
their blue was that of Gauloises in the later years
look up Ligier in like 1979
then you have french racing blue
vague pollen
their blue was that of Gauloises in the later years
Isn't it the same as the Gitanes one?
vague pollen
Weird how on the cigarette packs it's different
But Ligier didn't change the blue on their cars
I wonder if Gitanes ever got annoyed at Ligier for not running their cars in a brighter shade of blue
vague pollen
Ye it only changed to Gauloises in 96
vague pollen
Nah no that's fine🤣
I jus found it weird bc I only rlly know the 95 - 99 cars
I never rlly seen any full races from before 1995
So I jus didn't know the 70s - early 90s cars & drivers that well lol
past drift
i've seen a few and honestly they're quite boring
vague pollen
I gotta say as well it's a shame Prost couldn't swallow his pride abt it being a "all French" team
Ditching the Mugen Honda engines was by far the dumbest thing they coulda done
past drift
Ditching the Mugen Honda engines was by far the dumbest thing they coulda done
if it was for the Renault ones, then it would have been a good move
but he was naive to believe in Peugeot
vague pollen
Or even if it was for some Supertec/Mechachrome engines
Bc despite what ppl say & like to believe, they were still pretty decent engines even in 2000
past drift
nah he would have wanted a works deal
that's why he went with Peugeot
they were!
at least they had the reliability Peugeot never had
vague pollen
And they revved pretty high as well
Like in some 98 onboards they're reaching the same kinda revs as cars from 2000 & 2001
past drift
they really pushed hard the development
vague pollen
Tbh given how much development went into the engine from 90 - 97
It's rlly weird how their 2001 - 2003 engine struggled so much
vague pollen
Like it was ok but it definitely struggled to keep up with the Honda's & Ford Cosworths
vague pollen
with the wide angle
It's weird tho bc if they kept the 70⁰ angle that coulda jus given them reliability problems
Bc Mercedes had a 70⁰ block from 95 - 03
And that shit was never reliable😅
past drift
well, when they reverted to a conventional 72 degrees from 2004 onwards it was good from the get go
vague pollen
I wonder if they tried to use any of the old Supertec engines to develop that one
Bc despite being old, in onboards from 98 & 99 they sound pretty different to how they sounded from 90 - 97
Like they almost sound kinda similar to the 01 - 03 engine
paper fossil
Ditching the Mugen Honda engines was by far the dumbest thing they coulda done
on reflection they didn't work as one
but at the time taking on Peugeot would have been seen more shrewd than keeping the inherited Mugen Honda deal that goes back to Briatores ownership of Ligier
it was a good engine in 1997
vague pollen
I'm wonderin tho when did Briatore stop owning part of Minardi & Ligier/Prost?
No one rlly mentions it but it clearly went on for a while bc Alonso got a Minardi seat bc of Briatore
Despite already being signed for Benetton/Renault
paper fossil
i can tell you well before 01
in ligiers case he sold it off in early 1997
when it would become Prost GP
and his Minardi share went to Minardi and Rumi probably in 96-97 too
like considering when Tyrrell got sold off to BAT then probably between the end of 96 and start of 97
as Briatores main aim was to sell off Minardi to BAT
i assume this was part of a plan Bernie had because I think he got Briatore into Minardi to begin with
and helped BAT get Tyrrell because they had refused to sign up to the new concorde along with McLaren and Williams
round swift
heyyy
vague pollen
and helped BAT get Tyrrell because they had refused to sign up to the new concor...
I wonder if Tom Walkinshaw had anything to do with this as well
Bc he also liked doing that kinda shit
Basically being Flavio's 2nd man in the Minardi & Ligier situation😅
I think even with Simtek as well
paper fossil
I wonder if Tom Walkinshaw had anything to do with this as well
Flavio sent Tom and TWR over to run Ligier for him
Yes
But he soon went off to buy Arrows from its Footwork state
meager pewter
It's rlly weird how their 2001 - 2003 engine struggled so much
Just to comment on this... When Renault rejoined with the 111°V it had its' own silver lining. Because of the harsh Harmonics that came as a result of the wide angle you can hear on the onboards it sounds so hot on slow down It limited them to beneath 18,000, which incentivised them to make power through Torque more than the others (BMW cracked 19 in 2003). This meant when they did switch to 72°V's for 2004 they already had the resources to make a strong engine without the cutting edge revs... Whilst now having the availability to make those revs, which also affected reliability massively which was good for 2005
You can hear the mid note is WEeeird
vague pollen
Just to comment on this... When Renault rejoined with the 111°V it had its' own ...
Idk tho to me it sounded the same as the previous 70⁰ Renault engines Benetton & Williams were using around 90 - 98 & 2000
More like the Benettons tho bc they had a rougher & more grunty sounding exhaust
meager pewter
Example?
vague pollen
In the 97 vid that sounds like it's revving above 16.5K RPM as well
There's also a lap of Wurz in Suzuka 1998 where it reaches the same kinda revs
But the sound quality isn't as good on that vid
But they are 100% revving to at least 17K RPM around 98 & 99
meager pewter
I know, The 2001-3 ones were effectively rev limited
I wasn't talking about pitch, I was talking about how heckin' Harsh the wide angle sounds especially when off-throttle
The midtone just comes out like a saw
paper fossil
It's rlly weird how their 2001 - 2003 engine struggled so much
“They were on a very good trajectory from the disastrously uncompetitive 2001 car. It was the oddball design of that car that had a wide angle V10 that ended up needing to be beefed up and have its revs restricted to keep it in one piece which put the team on a path that would ultimately lead to those 2005 and 06 titles. And putting extra weight in the rear, which was forced upon them in 01, turned out to work brilliantly well with the Michelin construction, giving it fantastic traction and then they re-optimised the torque curve around reducing maximum revs, and brought gains in fuel consumption - therefore how light the car could be at the start of the race and how tractable it was at lower revs, and that worked hand in hand with the greater traction to give stunning start line performance. Also because you have to match the aero distribution with the weight distribution, there wasn't the same requirement to get massive aero load on the front, which was very much the aero limitation of that time, so they could have a very aero efficient car. So they kept those traits, even with the much better cars of 2002 and 03, and it was almost a given at the start of any race that they would make up one row from where they qualified. And it was a unique technical philosophy and it was interesting because they weren't just trying to do the same but better than the top team, which is always a big ask; they were instead doing something different, and that made its ultimate potential unknowable but exciting, and you could see this progress being made each season.”
Mark Hughes
vague pollen
I wasn't talking about pitch, I was talking about how heckin' Harsh the wide ang...
That's what I mean tho the Benettons had the same rough grunt to the exhaust sound as well
It jus doesn't sound as ear piercingly sharp bc the OG 90 - 97 ones were obviously less developed
vague pollen
I know, The 2001-3 ones were effectively rev limited
I wonder if the wide angle block was the reason they kept flat sidepods from 01 - 03 then
Bc most teams still had them but in 03 sidepods were starting to become more round & undercut
meager pewter
YEs, in... Especially Brazil in 2001 there's a cutout in Benetton's sidepods and you can see all up in ther
meager pewter
The engine was literally too thicc for the car🤣💀
vague pollen
Goddamn that is a fat AF exhaust
meager pewter
That's a good example of stepped headers too
past drift
what's stepped headers ?
meager pewter
what's stepped headers ?
Notice halfway down each exhaust header pipe the diameter of the pipe goes up? With a step like that, you have the acoustic wave of an exhaust pulse reflect back down the pipe
How do... I explain this without too much annoying language
past drift
Notice halfway down each exhaust header pipe the diameter of the pipe goes up? W...
oh ok! what’s the gain for that?
meager pewter
oh ok! what’s the gain for that?
Y'know how the exhaust collectors scavenge/suck out the pipes at a particular rev range?
This step halfway down each pipe adds another stage to that at half the revs that the collector is made for
And also has the side effect, because this is acoustic, of making the exhaust tone much more blary/sharp
Around the turn of the 2000's it came about
Improves midrange
vague pollen
Notice halfway down each exhaust header pipe the diameter of the pipe goes up? W...
I love how even on the test version of the B201 when Renault fully took over
It still had a removable panel for the fat ass headers🤣💀
vague pollen
https://youtu.be/SrXn6sSsS7s?si=MlgpRM9Rx9fUYd0L
Goddamn the size of them kerbs on the 1st & 3rd chicanes😅
Although tbh I'd say we need kerbs to go back to that kinda height
Nowadays there's almost no point even having them on most tracks bc they're jus smooth & basically level with the main track surface
paper fossil
i do love this numbering system
vague pollen
Shadow🔥
past drift
i do love this numbering system
and the fact tyrrell stayed 3 and 4 forever
paper fossil
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Jc1g_DWfOiqv3EMpSJReA4mXPx3pxE6B4se0gt9GbEc/edit?usp=sharing
vague pollen
I jus realised
Brabham in 91
Almost had the exact same livery Tyrrell had in 90
paper fossil
Frank Dernie is rather clear in thinking McLaren had a more raceable Ford engine in 93
paper fossil
Benettons
Because Cosworth had a less electronics based approach to TAG electronics on the McLaren
past drift
ah fair
paper fossil
The Cosworth traction-control system involved an actuator that physically closed the throttle barrels; it wasn't electronic. It was slow and it never worked very well. Whereas McLaren, because they effectively owned their engines, used their own TAG electronics systems and they had a very sophisticated traction-control system using (word I will not use again lmao) and spark cut, which worked really well. They were always telling everybody we had the better engine but they actually had a more raceable engine.
vague pollen
Frank Dernie is rather clear in thinking McLaren had a more raceable Ford engine...
Well they started the season with less powerful engines than Benetton
Then was it like halfway through the season Ford decided to let them have the factory spec engines they were supplying to Benetton?
meager pewter
> The Cosworth traction-control system involved an actuator that physically clos...
That's wild
Also fun fact; that ECU found it's way into a 500cc MotoGP Bike
paper fossil
Which one
meager pewter
Cagiva C594
Has full EFI and timing tables, Active Suspension and Traction Control
paper fossil
That got their highest placing in the WDC during a decade long stay tbh iirc
Shame they got Lawson a bit past it with multiple injuries
distant garnet
meager pewter
That got their highest placing in the WDC during a decade long stay tbh iirc
Mmm, they could've won the championship but had a string of bad luck
paper fossil
I will be cautious on that
As I’m rewatching the 1990s
But it would be because of the machinery because Kocinski was ok but like not near the level of a Doohan
meager pewter
Thing weighed 122kg and made 177-185hp and made me like two strokes so I like it
meager pewter
i like it for just how most of the lap the bikes were wheel spinning
That works too
round swift
Jenson Button - Prost AP02 - 1999 Barcelona Post-Season Testing
paper fossil
The last privateer entry in Formula One
past drift
strange, statsf1 says he used number 37 that day
“registration refused” as his result for Jarama 81
paper fossil
It would be from the NC 80 GP
I just meant him being the last
Because I think he tried qualifying with a “March” in 82
past drift
yeah he did
vague pollen
The last privateer entry in Formula One
Idk, technically wouldn't that be Prost or Brawn?
past drift
they built their chassis
we could argue maybe like, HRT
paper fossil
If you technically want to twist it you would say it was Scuderia Italia in 1993
Or Toro Rosso in 2010
Who didn’t design or build their chassis for the year
Haas still design theirs and have some components of it built by Dallara
Slowly that part of the bargain is reducing
I think F1’s definition is of an entry buying a chassis from an existing builder who also enter their works cars on the grid
past drift
hmm ok
past drift
de jure or it just happened
vague pollen
Because they built their cars
I mean the 97 Prost was a Ligier
paper fossil
i think it is a stretch
to claim because the team was bought out that it was a privateer
the JS45 was built by the same people who would run the car in 97
vague pollen
Oh I thought u meant how they bought a chassis
Bc when Prost bought Ligier, he did get that
tribal silo
Ye rlly similar situation
I love these Japanese magazines
past drift
agreed, /6 reigns supreme
vague pollen
I always felt like the MP4 12 was pretty underrated
Like the West livery looked so good on 94 - 97 spec cars
paper fossil
Such a forgettable car
Number of GP it probably should have won though
Canada, Britain, Austria and Luxembourg all come to mind
past drift
at least it won races
vague pollen
Such a forgettable car
I mean tbf it was still evolving from the 95 & 96 cars😅
Which were low end midfield - backmarker tier cars
meager pewter
Is it bad I prefer both cars either just newer and older than the 6?
desert plover
Is it bad I prefer both cars either just newer and older than the 6?
You prefer the MP4/7A more?!?!
I never really liked the MP4/7A
meager pewter
Yea
desert plover
I didn't like the front design of the wing going up to the cockpit
Looks like it was designed wrong
MP4/6 was super smooth there
past drift
last Marlboro sadge
vague pollen
Also even tho it was a bit of a shit car & it almost killed Mika
The MP4 10 does deserve some credit for pioneering shark fins
past drift
rude car
dont kill the Mika 
with the weird antenna like in 2017
when it comes to shark fins, you could argue the Cooper T51 of 1959 already had one
south tree
The worst car ever
vague pollen
The worst car ever
The OG "fake Ferrari"
vague pollen
I guess it kinda counts especially with it being on the engine cover as well
south tree
The OG "fake Ferrari"
Real
desert plover
Like the length of the front wing like... Second elements?
no. From the front to the cockpit it is curved just a bit to make it a little bit awkward for me, and also 1992 was not a great season for the car and Senna
vague pollen
no. From the front to the cockpit it is curved just a bit to make it a little bi...
Do u mean how the curve doesn't straighten out when it gets to the part of the cockpit just in front of the sidepods?
Bc tbh that's something a lot of other early - mid 90s cars had
desert plover
Do u mean how the curve doesn't straighten out when it gets to the part of the c...
No Im not sure where you are getting sidepods from lol
Front wing to cockpit does not mean sidepods
It just meant it wasnt as straight as the mp4/6
just like the mp4/8 had a bit of the bend of the front wing downward
river cave
Bc tbh that's something a lot of other early - mid 90s cars had
goated Ferrari style
vague pollen
No Im not sure where you are getting sidepods from lol
Bc the front of the cockpit is literally just in front of where the sidepods are?..
vague pollen
It just meant it wasnt as straight as the mp4/6
Like I thought u meant the nose cone bc I can't rlly see that much of a curve in the front wing
desert plover
Like I thought u meant the nose cone bc I can't rlly see that much of a curve in...
because the mp4/6 is very straight and doesnt dip like the mp/7a or mp4/8
vague pollen
Right so u are talking abt the nose cone then
vague pollen
because the mp4/6 is very straight and doesnt dip like the mp/7a or mp4/8
Ye I think the dipped noses only rlly worked on cars that had anhedral front wings or early 2000s cars which still had the raised noses but they jus sat lower than the mid - late 90s noses
desert plover
Ye I think the dipped noses only rlly worked on cars that had anhedral front win...
it worked on the 1992 and 1993 williams
maybe because of the active suspension idk
desert plover
1990 williams
vague pollen
I prefer the FW13 bc it had a more aggressive & jagged kinda step
vague pollen
Ye they were a bit unreliable as well
They look so much more aggressive tho compared to the 91 - 93 cars
Especially that airbox
desert plover
thats probably why it was unreliable
glad they got rid of that design of the airbox
looked so weird
1989 was a good year for them but 1990 was like the opposite
Ferrari also had a good car that year and I think their nose cone was very straight and flat
vague pollen
looked so weird
Jordan had a similar one in 97 & 98
I gotta admit tho the oval shaped airboxes do look pretty sick
vague pollen
That jus looks weird tho especially with the tip having a round part but there being that awkward square bit around it
Like it looks like they forgot to cut the corners off when it came out the molds😅
warm sandal
paper fossil
Tom
paper fossil
they weren't as successful though
As it turns out Boutsen and Patrese running the car like a go kart made it slower than it could have been as well
desert plover
As it turns out Boutsen and Patrese running the car like a go kart made it slowe...
Guess they cared to much for Patrese and kept him for an extra three years
vague pollen
As it turns out Boutsen and Patrese running the car like a go kart made it slowe...
Haha at least it sounded good tho
Like from the onboards it sounded so much better & more aggressive than the 91 - 98 Williams's bc they all had a much softer sounding exhaust
mighty ginkgo
Also even tho it was a bit of a shit car & it almost killed Mika
what happened
distant garnet
Adelaide 1995
past drift
he had a puncture and then a nasty accident at high speed
needed a tracheotomy on the track
distant garnet
And when he recovered,as Mika says,he totally looked like Smeagol/Gollum
meager pewter
what happened
Brother done busted his skull
This was the year before headrests were mandated and so Mika smacked into the barrier and head ricochet' off his cockpit sides like 5 times
mighty ginkgo
This was the year before headrests were mandated and so Mika smacked into the ba...
oh that mustve been insanely scary wtf
meager pewter
oh that mustve been insanely scary wtf
Yeah, there is video to be seen but I don't think it'd be appropriate to post it here
mighty ginkgo
i do not wanna see it either
meager pewter
Mika mentioned in interview that coz of ye olde skull break he couldn't move, but he conveniently had his life threatening incident right next to the corner the ambulance rear was facing, so weirdly he could relax and then passed out
river cave
This was the year before headrests were mandated and so Mika smacked into the ba...
I'm pretty sure if i remember correctly, he actually smashed his face into the steering wheel as well
the straight up whiplash he got threw his head that far forward
Of all the corners Mika could've crashed at, he was extremely lucky it was the one with two doctors stationed right next to it
meager pewter
I'm pretty sure if i remember correctly, he actually smashed his face into the s...
Oh yeah...
tardy patio
:MaFIA:
idle gale
Murray wasn't the only commentator to say about Deletraz's "questionable" driving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZYpJ6AAqlos&ab_channel=RenAmamiya
scenic gale
Belgian 1998 GP
tribal silo
Belgian 1998 GP
I remember this race, it was fantastic
scenic gale
I remember this race, it was fantastic
It probably is the most chaotic race of all time
tribal silo
It probably is the most chaotic race of all time
I think Monaco 1996 was even more chaotic
full musk
Is that available on F1 TV?
mighty ginkgo
Belgian 1998 GP
im still confused about the race
wasnt there some giga pileup right at the start caused by coulthard and he somehow managed to also get hit by schumi later in the race
river cave
wasnt there some giga pileup right at the start caused by coulthard and he someh...
So yes
Back then they had spare cars
So in the event of a red flag, a driver could jump out of his wrecked car and into the spare car and rejoin the grid
Mika avoided the carnage so DC got the spare
Then later on in the race while being lapped, DC stayed on the racing line and let off the throttle to let Michael through
Cause of all the spray, Michael couldn't see shit and rammed into the back of DC's McLaren
That first start was honestly a fucking joke because it should've been a safety car start
The fact no one was seriously injured (Rubens was in fact hurt in some way by the carnage, don't remember exactly how, I think another driver was also hurt) or worse given the amount of flying wheels and wishbones is a fucking miracle
Also I'd like to give special mention to Ricciardo "Tosser" Rosset who went flat out into the mountain of carnage, meaning Jos Verstappen's careful maneuvering to avoid most of the wreckage was ruined when he was kamikaze'd by Rosset
scenic gale
wasnt there some giga pileup right at the start caused by coulthard and he someh...
Ye, he somehow got points even by being lapped 6-8 times 💀
mighty ginkgo
Back then they had spare cars
ah
tribal silo
Is that available on F1 TV?
Yes
paper fossil
Yes well
They’ve slowed down on adding full races again
Been like nearly a year since some 03 rounds were added
Europe 03 I think was the last
Lazy bastards
Basically 04-17 all full races are there
tribal silo
So yes
Coulthard didn't block Schumacher deliberately, and both he and Nakano were 5 laps behind and didn't score points
paper fossil
18-24 full races and all sessions
99 minus imola
Rest are all mixed up
81 onwards that is
paper fossil
Coulthard didn't block Schumacher deliberately, and both he and Nakano were 5 la...
Don’t think anyone suggested he did
But what he did was dangerous
Which I think with massive amounts of hindsight David came to realise
tribal silo
Don’t think anyone suggested he did
I think it was a misjudged manoeuvre indeed; conditions were quite bad even for the standards of the day and a similar accident happened between Nakano and Fisichella shortly after, if I'm not mistaken
paper fossil
Yeah at the Bus stop
river cave
Coulthard didn't block Schumacher deliberately, and both he and Nakano were 5 la...
No he didn't
past drift
But what he did was dangerous
what was dangerous in particular?
past drift
staying on the racing line, or lifting off
river cave
staying on the racing line, or lifting off
probably the combination of the two
either one on their own wouldn't be so bad
past drift
cause Mass tried to moved out of Villeneuve’s way in 82, and that led to Gilles’ fatal crash
so i think staying where he was was the best thing for DC
tribal silo
cause Mass tried to moved out of Villeneuve’s way in 82, and that led to Gilles’...
Yes, and Pironi's crash at Hockenheim too
past drift
Yes, and Pironi's crash at Hockenheim too
wdym
paper fossil
Prost unsighted passing Daly
In the wet
Or the other way around
But he clipped the back of Prosts rear wing and had a similar aerobatic crash that took away the whole of the front crash structure
tribal silo
Yes, sometimes the best way is not changing your way amidst heavy rain
past drift
Didier was?
tribal silo
Which was completely ridiculous from him
He was trying to forget the mess he was into
tribal silo
Awful crash
vague pollen
what happened
Basically his crash was 1 of the main reasons cars have the padded high cockpit sides
Like if u look at the onboard u can actually see blood in his helmet
He was insanely lucky to survive
serene dune
Hi
hardy ravine
Tragic race
mighty ginkgo
thank god the safety regulations for marshalls have improved
vague pollen
I'm wonderin, when did teams stop building the cars with fuel tanks right next to the driver?
I saw a YT vid of Lauda explaining how his 77 Ferrari works & he jus casually pointed to the fuel tanks literally being right next to him on both sides
meager pewter
I'm wonderin, when did teams stop building the cars with fuel tanks right next t...
Judging from the cutaways of cars of the era... It seems the 79 started the trend of having the tank behind rather than beside
I assume it was to keep the sidepods less cluttered for tunnels too
The 77 for context still has some outboard fuel tank
paper fossil
The Lotus 79 what a disaster
Oh wait that was the 80
The 77 was the one after Bellamy did an interesting job for Lotus wasn't it
Peter Warr is incredibly rude about him
tribal silo
Like if u look at the onboard u can actually see blood in his helmet
Not properly. High and padded cockpit sides only became common after Senna's death. And Pryuce didn't surrivive
vague pollen
Not properly. High and padded cockpit sides only became common after Senna's dea...
Nah I meant them being made mandatory by the FIA
Besides the high cockpit sides in the 80s weren't padded & they weren't designed as part of the head rest
sterile sand
Tom Pryce the forgotten driver
paper fossil
are you talking about this one specifically? Like yeah, he ploughed through a marshal and was struck by a fire extinguisher so of course he veered off the course.
Shadow actually built some good cars for him
he's part of the lost generation of British drivers though I really only think Tony Brise had the talent above them all
Tom was quite good though
he kept getting linked with Lotus season after season but I think Ronnie would have ended up there no matter if Tom died or not for 1978
says a lot that Brise was Alan Jones best performing teammate
with time he might have been flawed or found no way into a great team but the consensus is he was really good
Brise qualifying results against teammates
Spain: 18th to 25th (Merzario)
Belgium: 7th to 22nd (Migault)
Sweden: 17th to 26th (Schuppan)
Netherlands: 7th to 17th (Jones)
France: 12th to 20th (Jones)
Britain: 13th to 20th (Jones)
Germany: 17th to 21st (Jones)
Austria: 16th to 23rd (Rolf)
Italy: 6th to 23rd (Rolf)
Not beaten once
river cave
The Lotus 79 what a disaster
I was gonna say, 79 was the one Andretti won the title with 💀
paper fossil
I would class that as a disaster tbf
vague pollen
Makes me think
What'd ppl say was the worst car to win a title?
I'd say the Ferrari F2003 has to be up there
hardy ravine
I have a question, why is it Tyrrell → BAR → Honda → Brawn → Mercedes and not Matra → Tyrrell → BAR → Honda → Brawn → Mercedes?
past drift
I have a question, why is it Tyrrell → BAR → Honda → Brawn → Mercedes and not Ma...
Tyrrell and Matra coexisted.
Plus when Tyrrell was established as its own thing, rather than "Matra International" they didn't use Matra stuff. Maybe a few personel but i ain't even sure
paper fossil
Because Tyrrell was the entity
Matra supplied a chassis
And the team just got named Matra International
It operated as a privateer in effect
hardy ravine
So did Jackie Stewart win 1969 with Ken Tyrell's team or the actual Matra?
paper fossil
In fact Matra entered its own cars too in 68-69
paper fossil
So did Jackie Stewart win 1969 with Ken Tyrell's team or the actual Matra?
Both in effect
past drift
in 69 it was different, Matra didn't enter as their own this year iirc. with the V12
Beltoise drove for Ken
while he's a Matra driver. not a Tyrrell one
paper fossil
Ken entered the cars and ran them while Matra supplied the chassis
hardy ravine
Ok I get it
past drift
ye in 69 in effect Ken Tyrrell's team was the works Matra team
hardy ravine
So in 1970, Ken made his own chassis
hardy ravine
ye in 69 in effect Ken Tyrrell's team was the works Matra team
then why isn't it matra, tyrell, bar, honda, etc.?
past drift
it was just this 1969 year that this is true
before and after, Tyrrell was a privateer that just bought cars from Matra and entered them
well, not after. but i mean they were not Matra
paper fossil
So in 1970, Ken made his own chassis
Started the season with a March 701 then yeah
hardy ravine
before and after, Tyrrell was a privateer that just bought cars from Matra and e...
ok
paper fossil
Derek Gardner designed the 001
past drift
if you want a link with other teams, then ypu would have Matra -> (hiatus for a few yuears) -> Ligier -> Prost
hardy ravine
so we are counting only constructors, not privateers
past drift
yep
paper fossil
Tyrrell wasn’t a car constructor until 1970
But it entered cars itself
I mean when it boils down to it Matra really only supplied the car once it was all done
Tyrrell did the rest of the engineering
Back at Ockham
hardy ravine
Tyrrell only won one WCC right?
past drift
they improved the chassis Matra sold them?
past drift
Tyrrell only won one WCC right?
yes in 71
hardy ravine
Yeah Lotus won 1973
hardy ravine
Unfortunate
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😔
hardy ravine
Crazy to think that Albon has more race starts than Jackie Stewart
paper fossil
Crazy to think Stewart was 1 from 100 starts
past drift
he would have led the race and have his engine expire with 2 laps to go
paper fossil
And Prost 1 from 200
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i'll be bold and say Cevert would have won the Glen 😤
hardy ravine
Crazy to think Stewart was 1 from 100 starts
yeah
past drift
if it was Stewart in the lead, Jackie would have let him through to pass on the reins
paper fossil
Though that was a mistake from Stewart that Cevert refused to punish him for
Out of respect for Jackie
past drift
top lad
hardy ravine
Though that was a mistake from Stewart that Cevert refused to punish him for
what happened?
paper fossil
Yes well
Oh Stewart just missed a gear or something on the straight
And instead of passing him Ceverts rationale was that he had shown he wasn't quicker than him and therefore he shouldn't pass
Honestly it sounds like a very Tyrrell esque Ken thing
That he would have liked
Not that he had any direct influence on it I think Ken interfering with direct team orders was not his thing
paper fossil
if you want a link with other teams, then ypu would have Matra -> (hiatus for a ...
Oh yes that was funny
Getting Jabouille to design Ligiers which weren't very good
past drift
then both Jabouille and Laffite leave the team
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and they're stuck with checks notes Jarier
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ah didn't know that
paper fossil
and they're stuck with *checks notes* Jarier
Having Jarier is fine but the car was rubbish no Ducarouge because Guy fell out with him in 1981 and he went to Alfa then to Lotus
I mean there is a case he could have won 83 Long Beach
Till he wiped Rosbseg out
Certainly a chance of a podium
past drift
ye very possible
Guy Ligier (again) has a memorable rant: "That's too stupid! [...] I talked to Jarier. His collision with Rosberg was stupid. He could have avoided it. He lost the chance to win all by himself..." Ligier is unfair with "Lead boot". But he is convinced that thanks to Michelin, his blue cars could have won in California...
hardy ravine
I think Rosberg's decision to go to McLaren was wrongly timed. It was the time that the Williams was getting better and the McLaren TAG engine started showing its age
past drift
but ye, losing Ducarouge was what led to Ligier's downfall
past drift
I think Rosberg's decision to go to McLaren was wrongly timed. It was the time t...
Prost would agree with you
he left just as Williams was getting back to the top
paper fossil
I think Rosberg's decision to go to McLaren was wrongly timed. It was the time t...
He was retiring
And thought Ron would be the ideal guy to look up to for his future career
In business
Probably right
past drift
ah fair, didn't know that
hardy ravine
oh ok
paper fossil
He knew very well the Williams was the car to win 1986
Honestly Mansell is lucky to have got the Williams seat for 1985
Only reason he was there is because he had raced the Renault turbo
Frank wanted Alboreto
past drift
Only reason he was there is because he had raced the Renault turbo
what's that got to do? were they already eyeing on Renault?
past drift
ok!
paper fossil
Unlike the FW10-11 whatever it was
hardy ravine
the renault was unreliable tho
paper fossil
09B 10
past drift
he still got a pole with the Renault turbo in 84