classic-motorsport

[past drift]

ye haha

[desert plover]

Name the F1 driver

[frozen prism]

unfortunately these 3 drivers fall into my category of "Looks like this one driver, also looks like that one driver, but is really this other driver"

[paper fossil]

I know only one

Hans Binder

The rest is beyond my memory because nothing in particular sticks out

[idle gale]

Gotta love some 1950s onboard

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xg4Fr9SY04&ab_channel=DukeVideo

[frozen prism]

something that I always wanted to see was onboard race footage of the drivers in the Nurgburgring

especially Fangio in Germany 1957

by far his best drive

although I will never see it

[strange stag]

@frozen prism There is some NBR onboard footage. But not from Fangio I think.

[paper fossil]

This is a guy who still probably had it 25 years after his 1958 retirement

Safest candidate for being the greatest of all time in a grand prix car

[past drift]

no ive heard other people its atyron senner

[paper fossil]

Dear god

Think the issue there is

He was a very dangerous man on the track

[past drift]

that lie spred by the alan prots fanbas

[paper fossil]

.truth

[north sand]

Prost > Senna

[past drift]

someone MALIGNOUS had edited that so it would randomly show this or the opposite

which is, you might concur, quite blasphemous

[paper fossil]

No of course

[untold thorn]

.truth1

.truth2

[north sand]

Perez > Bottas

[past drift]

#botspam

[languid trout]

Is that still true? Ik it did seem like that in 2022 and maybe 21 but what about now?

[stark scarab]

I would say not cus although that kick sauber is bad atleat he's getting in the middle of the back and not p17 😂

[languid trout]

indeed and his pace in qualifying when he was at Mercedes was really good

[past drift]

that's not what this channel is for i'm afraid!

[languid trout]

sry i was responding to his reply

[stark scarab]

Yeah it was he was fighting hamilton in the same car

[tribal silo]

Hello!! Are there more racing historians or even writers around here?

[paper fossil]

I don’t believe we have any writers here full stop no

[stark scarab]

Senna or prost ?

[signal flint]

Rosset

[tribal silo]

I asked because I am trying to put my webpage working again and I'd be open to discuss some ideas and even collaborate with somebody with some knowledge in the area

[desert plover]

Discuss these ideas

I want to hear about them

[tribal silo]

Thanks

[desert plover]

I am guessing you like Juan Manuel Fangio? Based off of your profile picture?

[tribal silo]

Yea, sure

[tribal silo]

Sorry, yesterday was late

[past drift]

best you'll find here is armchair experts, but it can be sufficient for what you need 🙂

[tribal silo]

Well, I am a long-time racing enthusiast and history researcher, and I love to write. Well, I think I'm an armachaier semi-expert too

https://realmofmotoringhistory.blogspot.com/ - Here is my webpage

[tribal silo]

please tell me what you think, I need feedback to improve and organize my ideas 🙂

[paper fossil]

I will read some later tonight

Interesting subjects from just looking though

[tribal silo]

Many Thanks!!

[torn plank]

The side of Colin McRae that I just discovered

[meager pewter]

The 555 helmet sticks out well

[past drift]

it does!

[torn plank]

the fact that martin brundle also drove his Impreza

[paper fossil]

Mein gott

Jordan 195 in the gold Benson & Hedges ensemble

I always thought it was a nice looking car

[tribal silo]

It was a promotional initiative in 1996. Surer and Mikkola did the same in 1985

[paper fossil]

This livery scheme brings it more out

Rather than the random assortment of sponsors on the 94 and 95 cars

Gary Anderson usually did well with that sort of thing

[paper fossil]

Bruh

[tribal silo]

Winkelmann tried to set up an IndyCar team with Lotus in 1985 and signed Al Unser Jr.

[paper fossil]

Tried many things

Including a Formula One team with Jochen

[tribal silo]

Then money ran out and the intended Lotus chassis was never used

[paper fossil]

He insists also he would have been in NASCAR for 1971 also

Not too sure about that

Given Jochens accounts about doing some stuff with them before

[tribal silo]

Al Jr. was suddenly unemployed but, days after, John Paul Jr.'s was indicted into his father's shady deals and was released by Doug Shierson, who immediately hired Al Jr.

[paper fossil]

This would have been with an ex McLaren designer

Not Herd btw

I forget the name

It might have not been specifically mentioned tbh

Though Herd did also try to do something with Bernie and Jochen for 70

Which in the end became March

Which Jochen called Gremshek racing

On account of his German way of saying Grahams Shed

Graham Coaker that is

[teal hound]

The Marlboro one is really good

[thorn raven]

Thanks

[paper fossil]

🤔

[craggy ember]

What book is this?

[paper fossil]

Jochen Rindt: Uncrowned King of Formula 1

[river cave]

yes, i believe Brundle also got to drive McRae's Subaru

i forgot where Brundle was talking about it, but i have heard it

apparently the Jordan mechanics got really concerned about McRae when he started pushing the car harder after each lap and eventually pulled him in early because they were afraid of him doing his usual "in doubt, flat out" approach

[meager pewter]

Look at how Happy he is

[woven zinc]

he did yeah, they both got to drive each other's cars

[distant garnet]

One of the most unlikely podiums

[paper fossil]

Most certainly

[meager pewter]

why's no man here happy?

[oblique dock]

Coulthard looks depressed, Panis looks unbothered, and Herbert looks annoyed

[past drift]

Rainier also looks depressed

[paper fossil]

Probably because Coulthard had tonsillitis not long before this

Think he said he struggled with fitness

Sure Herbert was well chuffed in reality he was 3rd in a pretty unspectacular Sauber season

Where HHF was the clear better driver

[past drift]

tbf, Barrichello never won a race with Stewart, but Herbert did

[paper fossil]

Yeah but Barrichello more often challenged for it

Might I say

And on good merit too

Like a Prost of Trulli beat Rubens it was a chaotic grand prix that really got decided by some poor tyre choices

[past drift]

aye

but Herbert somehow got luck on his side, when he was in F1

although it didn't before he got to it

[distant garnet]

Well,blame his Cosworth engine failing in Brazil

[meager pewter]

Skilliam Issue

[paper fossil]

Precisely one of the reasons it would never happen

[languid trout]

How about a hot lap around the nordschleife, is that possible?

[shadow hull]

Not up to FIA standards (for F1) plus I doubt the teams would want to chance it

[paper fossil]

Sounds fine

[past drift]

their engine was unstressed? interesting

13y after the Lotus 49 you would expect everyone to do that

14 even.

[paper fossil]

This was Toleman

They did everything no one else would do even as a newcomer

[meager pewter]

Yeah similar is the BMW, all the Inlines you can't really stress and so the M12/13 has it's own... Cradle?

It was a reason for 2014 they stuck with V6's too

[oblique dock]

F1 onboard cameras uncovered

https://youtu.be/mfU2U77RKds?t=1615

[meager pewter]

oooh that's neat

[oblique dock]

The inner workings

and the exterior cover

[paper fossil]

What exactly are the reasons for running stressed and unstressed

[past drift]

ah yes i remember now!

[past drift]

think it's simply because it's an inline-4. https://youtu.be/NQeIhVJ5A34?si=cGEdHTEU9Mi6y8C9&t=393

(timestamped)

oh it was SkippY who did the original explanation for why you can't, i'll let them handle it 😊

[paper fossil]

I was just rather confused by your message in reply too tbf

Was the DFV stressed or unstressed

In that car

[past drift]

the DFV was stressed

that's the main innovation of the Lotus 49 i reckon

[paper fossil]

Oh right

After the monocoque I suppose and aerofoils by Monaco time

Seems like a Chapman thing to do

To just put in way more risks

[past drift]

https://youtu.be/GKFLrr_fwo0?si=0RzHihAneKpuSe1L&t=1315

[past drift]

i think Brabham had put wings on their car slightly before Lotus did, in 67

[paper fossil]

Yeah they had in 67

[past drift]

but they're not as big, more like winglets around the wheels

[paper fossil]

Lotus had a pretty odd one in Monaco

And then everyone came out with more at Spa

Such as Ferrari and Brabham

[past drift]

how many wings can one put on a car?

• yes

[paper fossil]

Tbf I don't think it was so bad there

Ferrari had some fins

Moderate bi plane wing

Bruce won the grand prix though with a pretty standard car

Only because Ken had forgot to account for the mechanics changes to the car when drawing up the fuel numbers himself

Plus the conditions

[paper fossil]

Yeah Colin got caught out with this eventually at Montjuic

Where the stresses were clearly just way too much and they bent and collapsed on both cars

Nasty shunt for Rindt

Banned at Monaco by the CSI

[past drift]

yeah. seems loke Montjuic was always a car breaker. this time for the greater good? i dont recall if someone died in 69

[paper fossil]

No

[past drift]

but in 75 spectators did

[paper fossil]

But Jochen was definitely close

[past drift]

😬

[paper fossil]

The armco luckily was working that time

Didn't work for him at Monza a year later sadly

[past drift]

😔

[paper fossil]

That got the blame instead of Chapmans car failure

Which almost certainly was

[past drift]

he lost the brakes didn't he

[paper fossil]

Rob Walker believes that anyway

When he sent the brakes off for cracks test

From his cars

And the results were clear

Yeah the shaft broke

[past drift]

ah :/

[paper fossil]

Almost certainly

But one of armcos bolts slipped out or something

So it didn't do the job it was supposed to

Which was slide down it

He got speared off into a violent spin

And as he wasn't wearing crutch straps he just slid down the cockpit

And was most certainly killed by then

[past drift]

nasty case, especially whjen he wanted to finish this season asap to retire

[paper fossil]

Yeah well

There is definitely different opinion on that

Stewart says he was going to retire

But Marko had a chat at one of Jochens last races before then

And he wanted to earn the money as world champion but said some of the trust he had of Chapman the year before had gone

I think he would have done the extra year

[past drift]

just not at Lotus

[paper fossil]

I think he would consider it

[past drift]

might have fancied joining Tyrrell, who knows

[paper fossil]

Like had for 70

[past drift]

with his buddy Jackie

[paper fossil]

This was not a thing I think

Because of Cevert

Only other things might have been with Winkelmann again

Or with Bernie for his own team

[past drift]

who?

[paper fossil]

His F2 employer

Former

Before he joined Lotus

[past drift]

yeah i think he would have become a team owner, clearly.

since that was part of his plan with Bernie

that's why i think the retiring theory is very plausible

[paper fossil]

Winkelmann said NASCAR was a thing

Which idk really

Given he didn't like previous experiences with it

And hated the 500 for USAC

He told Nina he would do the extra year

Apparently

[past drift]

oh i saw an interview with Jacky Ickx

initially Ferrari wanted Stewart for 68

[paper fossil]

So I believe he would have spent it with Chapman

[paper fossil]

Yes

Until he demanded many things

Ken to run F2 ferraris

That there would a saltire on the car

And Enzo then spoke to Ickx about Stewarts demands being unacceptable

Which Ickx duly told Stewart

[past drift]

he went there with his lawyer, which upset Enzo to begin with

Enzo then asked his secretary "what does this english man want?"
To which Stewart replied, obviously "scottish, please"

[paper fossil]

The definitely wanted him

But not for what he was asking of them

Like Ickx was a pretty odd appointment

[past drift]

he said he was contacted during an f2 race in Sicily

[paper fossil]

Sure he won F2 without the graded drivers

And had a good German grand prix

But it wasn't really that big

[past drift]

he said why he was always so good at the Nurb

there was a 86h race at the Nurb back thenm, which he did 2 years in a row

he would drive 14h during the day, and his teammate 10h d uring the night

he said "if after 3 and a half days of driving this track you don't know it inside out, all its traps, the water puddles etc. then something is wrong with you"

[paper fossil]

Redman I think got an offer

[past drift]

84 hours, my bad

[paper fossil]

But he always flatly denied proper full time F1 offers

Which is a shame

[past drift]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathon_de_la_Route#Nürburgring_2 guess this is it

yeah Redman did very good!

[paper fossil]

Amon I don’t think actively said yes get Ickx

Is the thing

He did with Stewart

Solana I think

Nope not him

Parnelli Jones

Is the one he also wanted

Jacky had always expected Tyrrell to turn up but the 2nd car didn't exist

Until 69

And that got a Matra driver in anyway

Which Ickx was not

Neither French

[past drift]

sadly, being belgian and french native isn't enough for Elf

although Elf wasn't in the mix then iirc

could be wrong

[paper fossil]

It was on the car

But they didn't have a serious 2nd car

Until 70

Beltoise was there because of Matra blah blah

Replaced Schlesser at Matra too

But that is another story

[past drift]

they went for Beltoise with his blocked arm when Ickx was the better driver and drove with Matras

[paper fossil]

I don't exactly know when Elf started the academy driving school thing

But they definitely gave Ken a bit of a budge to get Cevert

Who was at Tecno

Which Elf also sponsored

[past drift]

it's a bit sad Beltoise did relatively poorly in 69 with the Matra

for the longest of times my dad had a Beltoise Marlboro BRM sticker in his workshop at home, so i've always known that name

[paper fossil]

5th is good

All things considered

Remember he was one of the cars going for the win at Monza

In the dead heat

Beltoise was I think quite underrated

[past drift]

he did relatively well in teh standings, quite consistent

but he didn't win a race

[paper fossil]

He often could shake up things on the F2 scene too

At the time Clark, Stewart and Rindt were clearly the best drivers in the world

[past drift]

aye

odd career Rindt had, he didn't get good cars until 68

[paper fossil]

He did but he definitely wasn't as much a man for them

Given the injury Beltoise was very quick

Ken spotted Ickx in touring cars in his younger days

And did try to get him to test some cooper formula junior cars

That Jackie would do also

But he was going to do his national service

So declined

[past drift]

ye he mentioned Ken very early

so it’s a bit odd he never drove for him in the end

like, he could have been the replacement for Cevert rather than Depailler. except again, not french

[meager pewter]

You want to run a stressed member for a race car most, if not all, of the time, because that's a whacking great hunk of metal that can be used to increase structural stiffness. V engines are great at this because the mounting points are like a Triangle or Trapezoid so you have resistance against Torsional Forces

With an Inline well you... You don't

Not nearly as much anyway

Also you'd essentially put double the bearing load if you tried to on half the mounting points

[paper fossil]

Oh right

[paper fossil]

Anyone know why Toleman put radiators in the front wing for 1983

Seems like a thing you would be doing 10 years prior

Until everyone started doing the Lotus 72 trick

Tyrrell moved it back into the front of the car during 77 with the P34 iirc

To the dismay of Depailler and Peterson

[tribal silo]

https://realmofmotoringhistory.wordpress.com/2024/07/24/tom-pryce-the-welsh-dragon-y-ddraig-gymreig/ - I wrote a new article on the new webpage

[meager pewter]

I think it must've been coz of the engine change, coz they had the opening up front on the 82 car too

[paper fossil]

Engine change?

Still had the Hart inline 4 no

[meager pewter]

They went to the Hart in 1981 and half the time bits of the engine were exposed

So for 1982 they had that trunk nose out front and 83 went to rads in the front wing

I'm speculating for those cars they were tryna control engine temps

[paper fossil]

Maybe

Wasn’t the typical thing by then though

Toleman-esque in that sense

I should probably generalise that to Witney and Enstone-esque

[meager pewter]

wdym Toleman-Esque?

It was toleman

[paper fossil]

That they would try different things instead of the standard practice to stay in the sport longer and eventually be successful

Though Toleman fell Benetton and later the Renault teams tried radically different things to win

There is a Pat Symonds quote that explains, which I will get later

I probably worded that wrong but it was a style to their motor racing that all the subsequent iterations of the entry adopted

[meager pewter]

ooooo

https://imgur.com/a/williams-f1-3q9C7

Oh yea

In 2003 Williams actually modelled and simmed up a car that had alot of rules stripped back to 1980

[paper fossil]

Some of the ideas on the original 83 car no?

6 wheels

4 at the rear

Amazing they were actually on pole in Rio for 83

After they straight up banned the floors

[meager pewter]

The FW08B yea, Dernie gets into it here that it's Lift:Drag benefit was crazy

[paper fossil]

Likely they worked on the weight when switching up to the actual 83 car

That others were slow to develop

Also Michelin tyres?

[meager pewter]

... Oi

Don't diss

[paper fossil]

Radials anyway I think they might have had

Was beneficial early on

[meager pewter]

Wait what're you talking about now?

[paper fossil]

Start of 83

When Williams arrived with the DFV and put it on pole at Rio

[meager pewter]

DFY

[paper fossil]

Yeah well

That was still effectively under the DFV banner

But I get the point

[meager pewter]

... Fair point

[paper fossil]

Sure it shocked the turbo cars

Till Brabham came into the grand prix

But I suppose Williams were more prepared than the other turbo cars for 83

Originally

Didn’t last long

[meager pewter]

When was the """"Water-Cooled brakes""""" banned?

[paper fossil]

That was the 82 race no?

Love when they only DSQ’d certain cars

To satisfy Renault?

[meager pewter]

FISA moment

[paper fossil]

They injected water into something during 83 didn’t they

Was that the fuel

Tbh people doubted the actual benefits of that iirc

Reading the Tambay book

[meager pewter]

Nonono the DFV teams used to have water cooled brakes that worked as ballast that they'd empty after pre-race

[paper fossil]

I think that wasn’t there in 83

But yes

Was just expanding into other things

Ferrari had the water injecting thing

Probably all the turbo guys I guess

[meager pewter]

No, I'm getting confused with what Tyrrell did after which is the lead shot in the fuel tank after some had put the lead in that brake system to get even further

[paper fossil]

That was an even more radical attempt

And tbh

It was a bit bullshit how they got done

But oh well

[meager pewter]

Yeah water injectionis a forced induction thang

[paper fossil]

Yes well

That was a water thing being done

In 83

For sure

Again apparently the benefits were negligible

To Tampax (Tambay) at least

[meager pewter]

There's a reason that Methanol Water injection isn't just Water

[paper fossil]

I think the button or whatever it was failed a few times tbf

[meager pewter]

O

[paper fossil]

And annoyed Patrick at Montreal I believe

It was more of annoyance than anything

Is the main thing

[meager pewter]

Gimmie duh damn Toluene brother

[meager pewter]

wait it was a driver decided thing?

[paper fossil]

I think so

I should have put all the stuff in here

Tbh

I did with some of it

[meager pewter]

what?

[paper fossil]

That Tambay book

On his time at Ferrari

I put some important stuff in this channel

[meager pewter]

Oooo

[paper fossil]

It wasn’t really that technical

Mostly just stories

Anyway I need to drive now so goodbye for now

[paper fossil]

With the end of Renaults engine program being a matter of when not if, would like to share one of my favourite liveries from their first foot into Formula One during the 70s and 80s.

[oblique dock]

I personally prefer the RE50's more than the RE60's

But the RE60's livery is ok

[distant garnet]

That was actually in 1984

I remember Tyrrell got DSQ from the season because of that

[meager pewter]

Wow really it was that late?

N9 that's the lead shot fuel tank or whatever heckin'...

[distant garnet]

"In several races, after Tyrrell's final pit stop, lead shot could be seen escaping from the top of the car.
It turned out that Tyrrell were running the car underweight during the race then, in the closing stages, topping up water injection supply tanks with an additional two gallons of water mixed with 140 lb of lead shot to ensure it made the weight limit.

As this was pumped in under significant pressure, some escaped through the tank vent and rained down on neighbouring pits, in sufficient quantities for other teams to sweep the shot away before their drivers pitted."

[meager pewter]

Ooooh they had the water Injection

Also damn 64kg of lead in the car, that'll do

Ah okay the water cooled brakes were Brazil 82

[distant garnet]

Not like being this lighter saved them anyway in the season

[meager pewter]

... I mean by 85 that's... Like 530hp at most against 850-900

Whuff

[distant garnet]

They were the only team still using the Cosworth N/A engine while everyone else had turbocharged engines (even the simplest ones like Hart)

[meager pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/dirty-docks-shawty-triflin-shawty-triflin-she-gif-22455514

[paper fossil]

I think I had a bit of a chat about this in the f1 general channel with someone

But Tyrrell was about go to out of its own way to basically clear itself and win a case against FISA but then they crumbled and restored their payments for travel etc

It was all a bit silly

[paper fossil]

Yeah Ken was completely averse to the Turbo monopoly

I think he was somewhat right to feel like that given when he finally got his hands on the Renault turbo they were literally there to support Lotus and that is about it

[paper fossil]

I don’t know about it actually being a bet

Zonta clearly made an error and Jacques just took way too much speed

Plus I think that has been denied recently

Shame that doesn’t show the shot of Craig Pollock

[paper fossil]

Chris Witty recalls that before Benetton entered the picture, the team almost passed into the hands of another colourful F1 sponsor. Skoal Bandit, the US chewing tobacco brand whose cowboy logo was plastered on John Macdonald's RAM Racing F1 team, pursued serious talks only for the US company to go cold in the wake of an anonymous tip-off regarding salacious claims about Hawkridge's private life

Respectfully glad this didn’t happen

[meager pewter]

Awh man SKOAL cars are cool

[paper fossil]

yeah but Benetton cars were also cool

and they were very hands off with their management until the late 90's

Peter Collins coming aboard was also helpful

[meager pewter]

huh... Was that coz of Renault pressure?

[paper fossil]

i was referring to when Rocco briefly became TP

and they relented on the selling of the team to Ford etc

team lost its own track of thought with the depature of schumacher

and then within about 18 months all the great parts of the team had been basically gutted

Skoal could have likely just run what was the Toleman team down which is something Hawkbridge did worry could happen during the discussed sale to Benetton

but when he met their reps he could tell they had the right attitude and just wanted top continue the work that had already been done by Byrne and co

1985 was of course basically just Benetton but they had to remain under the Toleman banner because of FISA rules

[past drift]

so why did they keep the Hart in 85 ?

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3eBksK0Kfs&ab_channel=AidanMillward

[paper fossil]

Because the TG185 has already been finished up before the takeover could be completed

So arrangements were already done

It was over the course of 85 that Collins helped forge a relationship and then Luciano Benetton eventually headed over to Munich

[meager pewter]

I watch F1 for the action
The action:

[paper fossil]

Essex Petroleum!

My favourite fraudster David Thieme

Actually that is probably a lie because F1 had Rossem

But he’s up there

Bruh

[paper fossil]

Woah

Still a damn sight better looking than this

[frozen prism]

I mean would it really matter anyway

if they hadn't crashed their cars in qualifying

the damned thing would have broken down sometime in the race

[paper fossil]

I think he’s said because of Villeneuves crash he approached the corner with more caution and in proceeding to do so got onto the outside of the kerb

And had the big accident

The bet thing I believe is a myth

Classic JV

[frozen prism]

most probably

[paper fossil]

Would always be nonchalant about such things

[frozen prism]

it kinda sucks

I really feel like JV's best years were wasted in BAR

[paper fossil]

Maybe

But they might have been at Williams who knows

99-00

Weren’t amazing cars

01 is probably when JV went into decline

Panis was much more of a challenge and up for it than Zonta had been

[frozen prism]

I'd say post-01

especially when Button came in

[paper fossil]

And Zonta was like good

So it says a lot

[frozen prism]

fair

i also feel like JV himself just lost motivation

[paper fossil]

He had that chance to go to Benetton before the BAR renewal

Obviously the chance of McLaren for 99 iirc

Idk how serious that really was

The Benetton thing was though

If Jacques had stayed at Williams doubtless Button would have not arrived

Hard to say if JV beats Ralf

Because then that judges who JPM likely replaces

I wager Jacques

Because of 98

[round swift]

Aero was crazy fr

[meager pewter]

Stacked wings are kinda gorgeous y'kna

[paper fossil]

Stacked?

You just referring to the photo you sent

[past drift]

im fine with 3 planes, but 4 is silly

[meager pewter]

All of the above bruh idk

[paper fossil]

Ah

that isn’t the diffuser gary anderson had to jump on I don’t think

But it is close

[meager pewter]

That's the Jordan 192, not the 191

[round swift]

was this to improve downforce than other wings?

[meager pewter]

Yes, the lowest beam wings extend the diffuser, and stacking wings relieves the high pressure sides from the ones beneath to increase efficiency, peeps correct me if I'm wrong

[south tree]

Gotta love F1 in the past

Wild racing

[oblique dock]

Was this from the Lotus 93T?

[meager pewter]

I think so

[meager pewter]

Ngl I kinda like these wangs

[oblique dock]

Figured. There's no way it could've been the 95T or 97T anyways

[meager pewter]

Granted, the 183 pulls it off way better

the design is more cohesive anyway

[oblique dock]

What about the 1983 Spirit?

[meager pewter]

Really bulky

I kinda prefer it without the middle wing tbh

Idk if it's mechanical bias

Like this looks really clean by its' lonesome

[oblique dock]

I think it would look good if it had an engine cover of some sorts

[meager pewter]

This is why I said this

I like seeing the modor

[oblique dock]

I'll say this, exposed engines work for some F1 cars, some don't, and they always work for F3000 and F2 cars

[meager pewter]

Lotus 91?

[meager pewter]

Exposed vibes?

[oblique dock]

Real exposed hours

[meager pewter]

The bulky boye who doesn't look like an F3000 car I swear

[south tree]

NSFW

So much shown

[paper fossil]

What a lovely era

[meager pewter]

Fr fr

I'm pretty obsessed with 1982

[meager pewter]

mmmm mmm

[paper fossil]

I don’t how to feel about that livery I must say

In one way I liked it but in the other it was such a mismatch of different ideas

Imperial Tobacco really left and then just left them all confused

[oblique dock]

1979. Probably one of the lesser discussed years about Team Lotus imo

[paper fossil]

When it all started to go wrong you might argue

[meager pewter]

Yeaaaaa

JPS left and they were like awh damn... Uh, come back pls

[oblique dock]

Yup. Went back up during the 1980s gradually, and then after 1987, things went straight to hell

[paper fossil]

88 was a step just too far

80 same thing I guess

Difference is the 88 might have actually worked

Reutemann refused to drive the 80

[paper fossil]

Well unless your name was Colin and you liked the money from Thieme

[meager pewter]

Kid named Structural stifness

[paper fossil]

Was always a problem of having a difficult car to drive

I don’t know if Sennas conduct with the team and with JPS/Camel put them on a doomed path tbf

Just poorly managed anyway as Collins and Wright would find out in 1990

By then anything they could do to steer the ship wouldn’t save it eventually

Actually Warr resigned originally because their finance director was arrested just before they were about to put together a deal with Coca Cola and BP

R. J. Reynolds requesting his resignation which is all the more funny as they were fed up and about to sign a decent deal with Williams and a big one with Benetton anyway

[paper fossil]

Because his contract for 87 originally stated the keeping of JPS as sponsor, he could claim Lotus had breached the agreement which the team protested, they felt the spirit of the agreement was just the guarantee of sound sponsorship in this case Camel.

So he basically ended up taking $5m a year instead of the originally agreed 2.6

Justifying that because of Camels increased budget

Oh yeah that and and an unlimited R&D budget too

Bit of a piss take

Like yeah it is valid but annoying

Peter Warr absolutely fucked it up

[frozen prism]

I actually really liked how the Tolemans looked

especially Senna's of course

[meager pewter]

Oh same... That one anyway

[frozen prism]

i mean their first car looked really clean

i missed when company logos used to have style or life

nowadays we have entered minimalistic hell

[past drift]

there's something you might know. i am wondering what happened to Trevor Taylor that led him to become so poor, he was really quick for his first 3 races then nothing

is it the accident at Spa and he got somewhat scared and couldn't reach his confidence before that?

bit sad, cause his replacement, Peter Arundell, had the same kind of stuff : very quick for the first few races then nothing

[wary oak]

Driver meeting at Spa 1961

Name the drivers

[paper fossil]

well can see, clark, brabham, moss, mclaren, gregory, p hill

would have to assume taffy is there

the rest are so blurry and have their head turned away i can't really tell

innes ireland has to be there

guy next to moss must be joakim bonnier

is that gurney next to brabham

god knows

i do wonder if people like ireland and ginther were in the "gpda"

i think bonnier in the early days would basically allow drivers in if they turned up and peformed to a high standard

this was only ginthers first full season but he had already been 2nd in monaco to moss

[paper fossil]

dear god

great photo

[paper fossil]

McLaren next to Gurney though 😭

dammn i love this era so much i can even spot the future president of csi and the fia

Paul Alfons Maria Clemens Lothar Philippus Neri Felix Nicomedes Prinz von Metternich-Winneburg

his full name

well i think it is anyway

oh yeah it will be as he was president of the avd at the time in 1961

and this was taken at the german round of the world championship that year

[obsidian galleon]

https://youtu.be/pQE-0nG2kYE

This video doesn't have that many views oddly enough

but if anyone is interested

one hour of Brazil 1991

ft. Murray Walker, James Hunt, and a very crappy Williams gearbox

[tropic swallow]

swag pictures or nah?

photos taken at Brookland museum

[oblique dock]

Mega swag

[last gate]

i just munched a whole packet of strawberries

wrong chat

sorry lmao

[desert terrace]

i can't tell if this is a new conversation or a response to the above

[paper fossil]

not related

[craggy ember]

Did Fangio do every race for mercedes in the 1950s?

[past drift]

when it comes to F1 yes

[paper fossil]

When it comes to world championship grand prix yes

[past drift]

ive checked non championship races as well 🤔 did i miss any?

[shell helm]

I thought he also drove for Alfa Romeo as well?

and Maserati

[past drift]

he did, and also Ferrari

[paper fossil]

Alfa Romeo, Maserati, Mercedes and Ferrari

[paper fossil]

yeah well i don't have a full record on all those

and not all are grand prix's of course

[past drift]

true

[paper fossil]

i love how there used to be the Grand Épreuve term

and i swear Stewart is the only guy who still uses it

who is alive

[past drift]

maybe some races that were important but didn't offer a big prize to the winner

[paper fossil]

Although the term [Grande Epreuve] is frequently used to describe any Grand Prix in the World Championship series, the truth is rather different. The list of Grandes Epreuves is published by the FIA in their Code Sportif, and they are those events which, because of long establishment, have priority in fixing the International Calendar. The present list is composed of the Belgian, British, Dutch, German, Italian and Monaco Grands Prix and the Indianapolis 500-mile race.

Other Grandes Epreuves used to be the Spanish and Swiss Grands Prix (the former is likely to be restored to the list fairly shortly) and the Tourist Trophy (the RAC asked for the British Grand Prix to be substituted). The French Grand Prix was also a Grande Epreuve until 1968, when organisation of the race was taken over by the Federation du Sport Automobile from the Automobile Club de France.

i always thought it meant world championship event

and prior to that just all the important events alfa, merc, auto union beforehand all entered

[tough junco]

bae

[frozen prism]

ah Jo Bonnier

there is that one infamous photo of 60's F1 drivers all huddled around a young Damon Hill

Wolfgang von Trips (right most) would die presumably a few months after this picture in late 1961, Bruce McLaren (left most) would die in 1970, Joakim Bonner (2nd from the right) would die at LeMans in 1972, Graham Hill (3rd from the right) would die in a plane crash in 1975. Only Stirling Moss and Tony Brooks (2nd and 3rd from the left) would live beyond 1975 and see Damon Hill flourish in F1

[past drift]

quite sad, especially for his dad

[frozen prism]

his dad was ready to lean back and see his son start his racing career

along with his own racing team

ironically he was really the one who took all that away from himself

note to everybody guys, best not to pilot on an expired license

[distant garnet]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/refuelling-fire-photo-1994-verstappen/4500293/

[paper fossil]

Okay yeah get it now

[south tree]

The Arrows and the McLaren look great

[tropic swallow]

f1

[meager pewter]

The boosty boi needs to be held gentle like hamburger

[wary oak]

Brabham designer Gordon Murray chats with Carlos Reutemann, sitting on the Brabham BT45 at Long Beach in 1976.

[paper fossil]

not really a fan of murray

but all hail lole

[meager pewter]

Why?

[paper fossil]

comes across as a bit of an arse in some interviews

tried to claim credit for design work on the mp4/4

when all he really did was act as a liaison

because he was bored stiff of formula one

it is all silly because of this bt55 stuff

but nichols had done the 87 car when barnard had left and then the mp4/4

while Oatley did the /5

i mean 8 members of the design team signed a letter of intent to ron about this in the 1990's when Gordon had made a comment

beyond that i appreciate all his prior work and quite frankly he might be a nicer bloke if you just walked up to him

[meager pewter]

Ah right...

[past drift]

a comment about what?

it's odd, cause it seems like he's changed his speech about the /4 now

[paper fossil]

as late as 2021 he was saying nichols didn't design it

and that he was fed up people were living off his reputation

[past drift]

damn

that's nice teamwork here

[past drift]

i'd need to rewatch that bit then, it was in the designer legend thingy from Sky F1 with Steve something

maybe im imagining things

[paper fossil]

it was for motorsport mag

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single-seaters/f1/im-sick-of-people-living-off-my-reputation-says-gordon-murray-in-mclaren-mp4-4-row/

there is a whole 2hr+ interview with nichols on yt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDE2XzqGV6s

that goes into explaining the mp4/4

among other parts of his earlier and later career

most of the Murray disagreements are at the end

[past drift]

come on, this is the /3 and you can see they're already trying to clean the airflow for the rear wing

[paper fossil]

the low line stuff had been worked out before gordon came yeah

[past drift]

maybe they took the idea from the BT55, but that's how F1 works

[paper fossil]

well nichols says he never saw any drawings

and that it would have been unethical anyway

[past drift]

yea but i mean

[paper fossil]

these were proper ip of brabham because the ideas had been used on the car

[past drift]

they surely saw he tried something very different with that car

[paper fossil]

murray has like no need to be this annoying about it

he had a pretty stellar career until the bt55

which tbh was not fully his fault either

[past drift]

yeah, and in the end the flaw with the 55 was simply the engine that couldn't work with the design, i suppose

[paper fossil]

perhaps

[past drift]

an inline 4 is surely taller than a v6

if that bmw engine was like a v4 (was this already a thing in motorbikes then?), it would have been a killer car

or a flat-4

[paper fossil]

skippy went over it before

[past drift]

yeah, i mean, he either made a compromise on his low drag idea, by keeping the engine mounted correctly

or tilted it in a way

but with a V engine he probably could have done without htat compromise and all the subsequent complicated things needed to make this somewhat functional?

[paper fossil]

the 4/4 i think was simply more better designed and thought out

murray tried too much on the bt55

but it has its credits

[meager pewter]

Gordon was insistent on the Gearbox though, was he not?

[paper fossil]

as elaborated

[past drift]

oh yeah definitely

[paper fossil]

yeah but nichols didn't need to agree

he did as a suggestion

and they did great work on that

[past drift]

the gearbox of the /4?

[paper fossil]

weismann and murray

same at brabham for the 55

3 shaft gearbox wasn't it

[meager pewter]

Nuts how the 55 went for a triple shaft 7 speed

Unless "7 speed" meant 6 + R which is one of my bottom 10 moments

[past drift]

sadly there's probably no onboard to attest of that

[meager pewter]

Hoomphé

The crankshaft was not on center with the car, but the transmission was, so the axles would be the same length. The case housed the very first 7 speed transaxle in F1 to make the most of the narrow 1000 rev power range

Nevermind

That's a 7 alright

That's badass

[languid trout]

so the engine was mounted at an offset to make it a stressed component?

[past drift]

no i think it was offset just to lower it

[meager pewter]

No it wasn't to stress it, it was to make it lower/thinner so to reduce the front area of the car

[past drift]

haha was about to post it

[past drift]

seeing the HUGE tilting angle and how unreliable it made the whole thing, was it all worth it?

[meager pewter]

So only that intake manifold was up top like a V engine which meant the engine cover top only needed to be as wide as the rear headrest

[meager pewter]

Absolutely not considering Benetton

And they had to keep it for 1987 and not Megatron

[past drift]

oh yeah, how come? i thought BMW had basically left for 87, with Megatron being a sort of Mecachrome/Supertec kind of vibe

[meager pewter]

I think just coz like... Contractual agreements

[past drift]

hmm yeah, probably

[languid trout]

i see, and didn't they have it be that specific engine (the straight four) because they wanted the car to lower aswell?

[meager pewter]

BMW announced their withdrawal from F1 at the end of 1986, but that they would continue to honour their contract and supply, Brabham, with their tilted M12s for 1987. Arrows team boss Jackie Oliver, with support from the team's primary sponsor USF&G, brokered a deal to continue the use of the upright BMW engines under the name of its subsidiary Megatron, Inc., founded by long-time F1 aficionado John J. Schmidt.

[past drift]

shame BMW kept their M12/13 for so long, I bet they could have had more success with a V-something

But then, they were not a huge car company then

[meager pewter]

Well I'm not sure about that coz they'd first started using the BMW's in 1982, when the cars were significantly bulkier

It's like the Honda... It was a turbocharged F2 engine

[oblique dock]

The RA163E?

[meager pewter]

... Am I wrong?

[oblique dock]

I was just asking

[meager pewter]

Yes

My fault bruh

But originally that BMW would've probably done great for Tunnel runners

[paper fossil]

BMW stayed basically with Brabham didn't it

despite Collins working together a near works deal

[past drift]

yeah

[oblique dock]

It's ok

[paper fossil]

but they had to just abandon all that mid way through 86

benetton had a neat trick with the BMW though

[past drift]

haha

Symonds already making dodgy things by 86

[meager pewter]

Pffff

[paper fossil]

yeah basically pat says later on he dropped one out of his pocket when rosche asked for it

[past drift]

what book is that?

[paper fossil]

and in the confusion he picked up the race one

so benetton ran the qualifying one

basically

[past drift]

heh

[paper fossil]

benetton: rebels of f1

[past drift]

that sounds good

[meager pewter]

Oh to pump out smog at 5.5Bar

[paper fossil]

they did the same kind of thing with brian hart at toleman

[past drift]

with electronics?

[paper fossil]

took an airspeed indicator as a boost bar gauge

but it was modified

[meager pewter]

Wait so he'd use more quali maps with lower booft?

[paper fossil]

to read incorrectly

so they used over what brian allowed for

but brian didn't know

when he checked

[meager pewter]

Pffff

[paper fossil]

like they had to get someone else to modify this and they were asking "these are not going to be attached to aircraft are they?"

[past drift]

well, sort of

[paper fossil]

i can't really explain it

but they just had better peformance

seemingly

[meager pewter]

Right

[paper fossil]

i thought you might know more idk

[past drift]

that book spans which era?

[paper fossil]

well it goes through benetton in f1

[meager pewter]

Ay ECU's is untouched much for me

[paper fossil]

most of it is on the constructor team

[past drift]

just Benetton? 86-2001?

[paper fossil]

but it has a brief bit on the company

at the start

sponsoring tyrrell, alfa

decent part on the toleman team

[past drift]

ok 😄

[paper fossil]

then goes into the constructor

which tbh i would rather count as 85-01

but because they only entered at monaco after the takeover they had to enter as toleman

for the whole year

[meager pewter]

GOATed combo

[paper fossil]

honestly yeah

[meager pewter]

Livery wise anyway

[paper fossil]

shame euroracing were really crap

[past drift]

looks very nice

[paper fossil]

and so was the car

like they would just run out of fuel nearly all the time

[meager pewter]

And the boof aaahh engine

[paper fossil]

and it was so heavy

[past drift]

this V8 Turbo is a mystery to me, it sounds so overkill

[meager pewter]

You'd be right

[past drift]

and they didn't have electronic injection did they?

[oblique dock]

Shame the Turbo V8 was ass

[paper fossil]

yeah i wish to forget this semi alfa romeo of 1979-1985

[oblique dock]

Ironic how Alfa Romeo headed to CART and ran a Turbo V8, but ultimately failed

[paper fossil]

although at least autodelta was actually alfa

[oblique dock]

But hey, that's Alfa Romeo in the end

[paper fossil]

well

[past drift]

honestly, 80 to 83 are quite good years

[paper fossil]

its tuning company

or whatever

[meager pewter]

I assume it was because traditionally Italian engines were really quite small, but here the V6 was obviously the best all round convergence point. Then they tried a 4 pot and that was awful too

Also the 182 is one of my favourite F1 cars of all time

[past drift]

ah yes, the Marlboro car

[paper fossil]

it was good enough to convince mario

over mclaren

[past drift]

overtaken by the Marlboro McLaren

[paper fossil]

as it turns out

[past drift]

or however Murray Walker would say it

[paper fossil]

terrible choice

[meager pewter]

It won a race

[oblique dock]

didn't arnoux dislike the 4 cylinder they tested at balocco?

[meager pewter]

It looks better to me than the MP4/1 does

[past drift]

Ducarouge was really the shit in the early 80s

[meager pewter]

Yeah and Alfa being... Unfortunately stereotypical heard that and got offended and cancelled the Ligier deal outright

[meager pewter]

He went to Renault didn't he?

Blown exhaust innovator?

[past drift]

he went to Lotus after Alfa

[paper fossil]

not a world championship grand prix though

at least in 81 mclaren did finally win their first since 77

[past drift]

and he was at Ligier before

[meager pewter]

He... Could've done the Ligier Tunnel reliefs...

[past drift]

and Matra, he did the MS80 of Stewart

[meager pewter]

If so, badass

[paper fossil]

he was hella young

like late 20's

[past drift]

yeah, he was born in 41

[paper fossil]

i do think some names are missed from that car though

in design

i can't for sure know

[past drift]

which one?

[paper fossil]

but bruno morin was about for matra's first feet into f1 with tyrrell

and i'm sure he designed

he was important in any case

[past drift]

seems like Bernard Boyer was in the mix, he was probably more senior than Ducarouge

[paper fossil]

morin might have just been an overseer idk

previous to the ms80 though

Meanwhile, work continued on the MS10, with Bruno Morin from Matra now involved and judged by Rutherford to be vital to the way the team worked: “He spoke excellent English. He was a nuclear physicist and an engineer. He was a good man to have around and an accomplished interpreter which we badly needed. We also had a mechanic supplied from Matra called Marcel Vieuble who was extremely friendly and likeable... but his English was as poor as our French.”

as i said he was impotant

[meager pewter]

Oh Matra

[paper fossil]

i love matra

well

[meager pewter]

How I wish you got the Turbo in the car

[paper fossil]

i loved matra until they turned all french

[meager pewter]

It was done

[meager pewter]

That's the way innit?

It's like Prost

[past drift]

hey we do rocket launchers and missiles

let's do racing cars.

[paper fossil]

that's how dsj described

it

by like

what was their last full year

71?

72

[past drift]

Matra went all french in 70

last full year in F1 was 72

[paper fossil]

yeah but that was just about an okay step

[past drift]

when Amon almost won the french gp, the day Marko lost his eye

[paper fossil]

i think tbh tyrrell did blow it out of the water though

[meager pewter]

Oh wait we mean Matra as a team not Ligier-Matra

[paper fossil]

that car ended up being the fastest all season

despite being introduced late on

but 0 reliability

[paper fossil]

yeah

70-72 team and car constructor

[past drift]

then they just did sportscars

[paper fossil]

constructor 68-72

[past drift]

and idk how or when, but Ligier took control of all of that sportscar ex-f1 crew for his team

[paper fossil]

i do like how amon at matra was like the highest paid guy on the grid

[past drift]

and voilà

[paper fossil]

not stewart

[meager pewter]

Moi Teapot

[paper fossil]

not fittipaldi

[past drift]

this huge and quite polished airbox

for just 3 races

[paper fossil]

ah yes well

the huge airbox

[past drift]

i think it looks quite well, compared to some others

[meager pewter]

The ram effect is no joke

[paper fossil]

when they banned those

shadow

took a real hit

[past drift]

oh yeah

[meager pewter]

That... Doesn't surprise me

With their background

[paper fossil]

really love that team

[meager pewter]

Also their other racing forays

[paper fossil]

mostly because of jarier

jarier got matra engines there too

[past drift]

was about to say

poor Jarier who couldn't go to Ligier because, uhh i forgot exactly why

[meager pewter]

I love them mostly for their Extra-Curricular activities in F5000/Can-Am though yes the DN7 Matra is a highlight

[paper fossil]

could have all been prevented if jarier had gone to ferrari for 1974

[past drift]

too close ties with Matra?

[meager pewter]

A full 500hp

[paper fossil]

when

[paper fossil]

monaco 73 and regazzoni basically prevented that but anyway

said before they could have got amon too

as he was trying to get past the tecno madness

where he had asked someone else to design a car for him

it was that bad

honestly i think chris would have sorted out the car ickx had hated in monza as much as niki did

the way it is described it seems like laudas first test with ferrari basically set the course for them from 74-79

[idle gale]

I love how Eurosport managed to get footage of the Life L190 just trundling around at Canada

https://youtu.be/8l4mTVP0u6s?feature=shared&t=195

[paper fossil]

W12 😭

Brabham later stated that the car did not have a functioning tachometer in either of the pre-qualifying sessions, and that the team did not possess a tyre pressure gauge, having to borrow one from the EuroBrun team. This claim is disputed by the team's former mechanics.

[past drift]

76 when Ligier went into F1

[paper fossil]

i think it was going to be beltoise

but Guy had this thing against JPB because he had ousted Jo Schlesser from Matra so they did a shootout with Laffite at Paul Ricard which was totally not unfair

Pescarolo did a whole piece about it to L'Equipe

but yeah Jarier got ruled out for his contract

Ligier manage to make it seem as if it was because of his year out and age but I don't really buy it

the chassis bared the initials of Schlesser

Gitanes seemed to be the reason why JPB got named initially

[devout quartz]

How do you know such much about F1 history

[desert plover]

Wiggy full time job is reading about Formula 1

[idle gale]

Not the greatest of the Italian Stallions but still quite the looker

[paper fossil]

I wish

[tribal silo]

Yes, it was supposed to be Beltoise and Gitanes entered the project because they expected a renwoned French driver to be in the team. However, Laffite was doing great and there was interest in promoting him too, so Guy held the shootout and Laffite was faster.

[paper fossil]

Yes

“Faster”

By no means Beltoise never held it against Laffite

Or anyone really

But Pescarolo and others were rumoured to have been at this test and there was a piece about it for L’Equipe

Honestly Guy always had no plans to have Beltoise in the seat and should have just said it

[tribal silo]

Yes, he hadn't by then; but had to keep up the appearances (which generally doesn't work very well)

[north sand]

Congrats @tribal silo, you're now on lap 5

[paper fossil]

He was announced as their driver through Gitanes, and had a contract, but Guy Ligier was concerned about his age, and his year out in 1975 (he developed the car). So Jarier was the first choice, having driven with the Matra engine at Shadow in 1975, and also being French, but he could not get out of his contract. Pescarolo was ruled out due to being too big and heavy to fit in the car. So a shootout test was organised between Beltoise and Laffite at Paul Ricard, which was totally not rigged and did not involve Laffite being on better tyres. It was so rigged in fact that Pescarolo wrote an open letter to l'Equipe about it - "Le piège tendu à Jean Pierre Beltoise". Some other drivers (including Pescarolo) may have actually been at that test too, but sources unclear. It is possible that Guy Ligier's desire to get rid of Beltoise goes back further, as Beltoise's quick rise through the 4-wheel motorsport ladder in the 60s led to Jo Schlesser losing has Matra drive after 1966, only having a Ford France sponsored Matra to compete with before ending up at Honda. Schlesser was originally to Matra and Jean-Luc Legardere what Jabouille was to Renault before Beltoise came along, and it is no coincidence that Ligier (whose chassis designation bared Schlesser's initials) did everything he could to get rid of Beltoise for Laffite. Beltoise himself said years later that he was never angry at Laffite getting the drive and ending his F1 career, because of what happened between him and Schlesser.

[tribal silo]

Many Thanks!!! I didn't know the Schlesser/Beltoise connection

[past drift]

yet, Beltoise drove for Ligier (24h of Le Mans 1975)

[round swift]

Currently watching the 1990 season (:

[desert plover]

https://tenor.com/view/ayrton-senna-alain-prost-ferrari-gif-23509325

[compact canyon]

"And its happened immediately!"

[desert plover]

https://tenor.com/view/murray-walker-walker-murray-murray-walker-f1-f1-gif-16219006

[compact canyon]

Rest In Peace Murray 🙏

[meager pewter]

Oh great heavens

[tribal silo]

It's 1986

[paper fossil]

and a burning Ligier

Jacques Laffite was way down in 19th position after two days which were a living demonstration of the proof of Dr Sodt’s Law: if something can go wrong, it will go wrong. At the end of the first untimed session, his car caught fire during the second qualifying session, he made a mistake and took himself and Keke Rosberg off. As Keke said later, he’d have been furious had anyone else done it but when Laffite admitted to an error he was happy to accept it, after all, ‘Happy Jack’ was about to equal Graham Hill’s record of 176 Grand Prix starts... Entering Paddock Hill Bend for the first time, Thierry Boutsen had something go on his Arrows. The car turned sharply to the left, Boutsen fighting it, and it hit the barrier. This bounced him backwards across the road. In trying to avoid the Arrows, most of the following men either hit each other or hit barriers. One of them was Laffite whose Ligier buried itself into the Armco. Dr Jonathan Palmer was out of his damaged Zakspeed in a trice to be the first medical man at the scene. The front end of the Ligier was a sorry sight for the car hit at right angles and there appeared little give on the Armco. So Jacques had made his 176th start but yards afterwards had two severely fractured legs and a fractured pelvis.
Motorsport Magazine Race Report, 1986 British Grand Prix by Mike Lawrence

[meager pewter]

Oooh that one

[tribal silo]

Jacques Laffite initially wanted to continue in F1 and was supposed to drive for Ligier. However, he was yet in much pain and wasn't fit yet and, after a test, Ligier strongly advised him not to come back. They also wanted an Italian driver due to the Alfa Romeo deal. Laffite ended driving for the works Alfa Romeo WTCC team.

[paper fossil]

best way to get away from the madness of tecno?

bring back chris amon racing!

[meager pewter]

what was Tecno?

I remember they had a V12 or whatever

[paper fossil]

tecno was not very good

that is all that really needs to be said

amon literally got someone else outside of the team to build a car for him and tecno were so furious they refused to send the transporter out for grand prix

came from junior formula ladder

so european f2 etc

Amon became available, having been suddenly dropped by March at the start of the year. With few options, the New Zealander signed for sponsor Martini & Rossi (he was never directly contracted to Tecno). Unconvinced by existing plans, Amon persuaded Martini to pay for a separate chassis designed by Goral Engineering, a company set up by designer Gordon Folwell and Alan Phillips. The Tecno E371 featured a new monocoque built by John Thompson's TC Prototypes in Northamptonshire.

tbf the original car showed some promise

the issue was is that david yorke of tecno and count rossi of martini wanted amon while the pederzani brothers who founded the team wanted clay regazzoni

and the car to be built by certain people

[oblique dock]

It was a flat 12 iirc

https://youtu.be/fHhABhAoO44?feature=shared

[paper fossil]

That’s the tauranac car

[past drift]

isn’t that Trojan?

[paper fossil]

What?

tauranac was a freelance designer when he sold off his Brabham shares

Worked on the FWRC car too if I recall

Trojan was 1974

[past drift]

yeah he did the iso marlboro or the fw polytoys, one or the other

[paper fossil]

The latter

Iso and Marlboro were the backers

As had polytoys

It was just the first FW

[past drift]

ok 🙂

[paper fossil]

The numbering is kind of out of sequence though because by the time it became the FW[insert number]

They had made 4 different types other than car

But tweaked the 4th

So just named it the FW04

[past drift]

2 models of "iso-marlboro" and 1 FW after that?

[paper fossil]

Politoys FX3, Iso-Marlboro FX3B, Iso-Marlboro IR, and Iso-Marlboro FW

Though the last might have just been a rename

In which case it does make sense

I think in the end they had 3 surviving cars of the Iso-Marlboro gen

And named them FW01, 02 and 03

The 05 was just a modified Hesketh that Harvey tricked up when Wolf became involved

06 was the proper beginning for Williams as a car constructor and team

[paper fossil]

Ken’s shortlist of about 14-15 people for one of the Tyrrell seats in 1984 is so unhinged

[past drift]

fifteen??

can we really call that a shortlist lmao

[paper fossil]

Danny Sullivan, Emerson Fittipaldi, Jonathan Palmer, John Watson, Roberto Guerrero, Mauro Baldi, Bruno Giacomelli, Jean-Pierre Jarier, Raul Boesel, Kenny Acheson, Stefan Johansson, Corrado Fabi, Roberto Moreno and Pierluigi Martini

Not including Brundle and Bellof

[past drift]

so he was already set on Bellof for the other?

[paper fossil]

No

He nailed down Brundle in like February

The best thing is Jarier hearing about this interview and then ringing up Ken asking for a job

Stefan wasn’t high up on priority because his money was very little