classic-motorsport

[river cave]

Andrea de Cesaris, 1981 British Grand Prix

spun off into the catch fencing

[round swift]

Regular day in the office for Andrea

[paper fossil]

Rude given this was literally caused by Villeneuve spinning off all by himself in the first place

[wary oak]

True, he retired from something like 70 percent of the races he entered

[past drift]

in 81 he retired from 8/14 races

[wary oak]

in 80 he retired from 2/2 races lol

[wary oak]

actually it was 9

[past drift]

he was classified in one of these races despite crashing so 🤷‍♂️

idk where to put that

[wary oak]

which race

[past drift]

Italy

[wary oak]

it's labeled as "Accident"

[past drift]

and classified as 7th

[wary oak]

was 7th place in the points for 1981?

[past drift]

no, it was 6th

[wary oak]

welp to bad

[past drift]

oh so at Silverstone de Cesaris arrived too quickly and went out to not crash into his teammate Watson who slammed on the brakes to avoid the collision ahead of him

[wary oak]

i think his 87 season he retired from all of the races

[past drift]

yes, but was classified in 2 of them despite that
...

one of them being a podium scoring position lmao

[wary oak]

which race did he score a podium?

[past drift]

Belgium

[wary oak]

probably ran out of fuel

[past drift]

he ran out of fuel it seems

[wary oak]

yeah

did he still get the podium though

[past drift]

oh yeah he did

[wary oak]

only the car dnf-ed not him

[past drift]

he pushed his car to the line

[wary oak]

he had to push the car over the finish line

It does say Out of Fuel though

but he got a podium

never gets me a time on when he finished

[fallen dew]

Test

[chrome basin]

that looks... terrifying

[hardy briar]

What do you mean, no car is on fire and everyone is right side up, that’s pretty good for that era!

Only De Cesaris things

[wary oak]

Lol

[paper fossil]

Love James but he is the same guy who blamed Riccardo Patrese for an accident he caused himself

[digital jungle]

From the snippets of races of that time I've seen, Hunt was usually rather tame on commentary, but when he lashed out on somebody, he lashed out hard

[river cave]

Not really, Peterson's crash was Patrese's fault, and Hunt was affected really badly by it

it's why he always had a problem with Patrese from that day on

[paper fossil]

it's a load of crap

patrese was not even involved in that

it was a stupidly motivated grudge against patrese

[river cave]

What's Hunt supposed to do, plow into the back of Patrese?

he cut in front of him going into turn 1

Yes realistically Peterson should've never died in the first place, but Patrese was the one who put Hunt in that position when there was barely any space to begin with unless Hunt wanted to plow right into Patrese

[paper fossil]

i doubt he wanted to

but did

it was the reputation of patrese previously that got him into hot water unfairly

and hunt would snap back at him for nearly anything on coverage for that

bitter

hunt got spooked by patrese being alongside and is the one who hit peterson

got to remember the old run into turn 1 at monza narrowed signficantly

for sure not how hunt would later describe things and the drivers witch hunt to ban patrese

However, a few days before the US Grand Prix, an Italian newspaper published photographs that seem to absolve Patrese, proving that he did not touch Hunt. Arrived in Watkins-Glen, the Italian walks in the paddock with an attached case containing these photographs, showing them to those who want it to prove his innocence. But his peers don't want to hear anything. Only Gilles Villeneuve dares to defend him. Unfortunately, his misfortunes do not stop there since he is soon charged with manslaughter by the Italian justice system. The case will drag on for three years until it was acquitted in 1981.

[round swift]

Patrese was acquitted by both the FIA and the Italian court of all responsibility for the accident, it's that simple

If anyone is to be blamed for Peterson's death, it's only and exclusively James Hunt

[past drift]

eh, you can also blame the race director who started the race when the grid wasn't fully formed and at a halt

[paper fossil]

tbh i said he caused it

that is a fact

whether he's at fault for all the elements that came together that day is debatable

as i said monza was already dangerous as it was

only 2 years later f1 gave it a rest for the only time ever in the world championships history in holding the italian gp

it was more james having this weird distain in commentary whenever patrese did anything for the rest of his career

when he had unfairly tried to implicate him in being the main reason for petersons accident

[next pier]

Not sure if this is the best place to ask

But does anyone know what this hat is supposed to be?

It's supposed to be from the 2002 season.
It has the no.6 and the montoya stitching signature, but it has this RS thing at the back

And that threw me off

[oblique dock]

Probably Ralf Schumacher

[next pier]

Ralf schumacher at the back and montoya on the rest of the hat?

Seems... odd

[paper fossil]

only have to assume it is some sponsor

[woven zinc]

it is Ralf Schumacher's logo apparently

this is the logo of his karting place

so yeah it's very odd

guess it was a sort of "2 drivers on one hat" thing or maybe even accidentally printed on the hat

[idle gale]

And this was way before the Russian Grand Prix was thought of
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOD6J3HgsPM

[river cave]

I mean they did race in Hungary while the Kadar regime was still in power

[copper mango]

and bahrain 2010

with all that stuff happening in the country

or 2012

whichever one

[wary oak]

Mmmm 🤔

[meager pewter]

That's a nice Photoshop job, you can see the white border on the helmet

[paper jacinth]

Ayrton in Ferrari? Is Photoshop that?

[graceful fossil]

SENNA AT FERRARI?

this is schumacher

[next pier]

I've seen a bunch of other hats like that online, although they seem to be rarer than others.
It has the same labels on the inside that other hats have, so I'm guessing it's genuine?

[woven zinc]

if it has the same labels as the others, then it's most likely genuine

a bit weird yes but they probably made it like that 🤷

[next pier]

Cool, I got a special hat

Thanks for the info about the logo, I never would've found it

[past drift]

ferraris 1999 and 2000?

[wary oak]

Top one is Ferrari 1999, bottom one isn’t a Ferrari

[idle gale]

Arguably the only drivers that owned and drove for their own team

[oblique dock]

Rebaque?
Merzario?

[river cave]

Other than Brabham and McLaren, were there any other driver teams that were moderately successful?

I always hear how other than those two, every other attempt was a colossal failure

[past drift]

Dan Gurney

[oblique dock]

Ah, yeah. That’s right

[outer pier]

Well. Verstappen has leveled with Ayrton Senna

[river cave]

I think there's a lot less fanfare about it nowadays because drivers have more races per season

but also, when Schumacher did it, it was highly emotional because Schumacher was behind him when he crashed at Imola

Lewis was a lifelong fan of Senna and was rewarded with one of his helmets in front of the grandstands in Canada

While with Verstappen, it's just sort of an offhanded thing like yeah, he tied with him

at least he got a bust of Fangio when he tied with the Maestro

[round swift]

It's refreshing to have a top driver who doesn't idolize Senna

Max doesn't idolize anyone, which makes me even more eager to see him tear down a record or two

[chrome basin]

holy shit that is good photoshop, i couldn't even tell for 5 seconds

[analog lake]

Not really. When senna had 41 grands, he also had 62 poles with the finale 3 coming from Williams

Whatshisface only has 25

[chrome basin]

to be fair verstappen wasn't in a top tier car early in his career

he was in a toro rosso

then a red bull

but then again merc dominated 2016-2020

another thing though is that verstappen became more competitive around 2017

most due to the fact that merc was very dominant

so we didn't really get to see verstappen much

he was also in the younger stages of his career

so obviously senna would've had more mostly because the lotus was good enough + senna was rapid in quali. also came to mclaren after lotus and stuff and stuff

verstappen is rapid, don't get me wrong

[past drift]

he was in a top tier car for his second season, like Senna

[chrome basin]

oh yeah sorry

but then again verstappen wasn't crazy in quali in 2016 no?

[round swift]

It doesn't matter, wins are wins

[chrome basin]

he didn't have any poles until 2019

mostly due to merc dominating

but otherwise it's somewhat unfair to compare their poles

[round swift]

If anything, 41 wins from 25 poles is a far more impressive stat than 41 wins out of 62 poles

[chrome basin]

simply put senna was in a more competitive era when he started compared to max

max literally was in the midst of merc domination

[round swift]

I mean, is there a point in arguing with someone whose server name is odious Max and who refers to him as whatshisface?

[chrome basin]

fair point

[round swift]

the thing escaped Twitter and found its way here

[past drift]

Max was never crazy in quali tbh

Hamilton is

Max is a race day driver more than a quali driver

[chrome basin]

fair enough

[round swift]

It's a benefit Max can afford due to his insane racecraft, he's very much like Prost in that regard

[analog lake]

Lol, I see the connection you can easily make. The name Odious Max has nothing to do with Verstappen. Whatshisface comment, meh, I have a lot of respect for the guy. My daughter is a huge Verstappen fan. I am not so much fan of his father. But no disrespect to either of them. Being an F1 fan since 78, Senna's performance stands out as more exciting due to the competitive nature of those times. The scake I really use to measure Max is against Perez. For me, that speaks volumes and if it was Perez 2x in the seat instead of Verstappen, there would be talk ofa an 8th for Hamilton. Cheers

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/413007764483342339/1119291810171334686/image.png

[oblique dock]

Is that one of the Eagle-Weslakes?

[analog lake]

Yes

That a 3d model I am working on

[oblique dock]

Very cool

[analog lake]

That is the 67 spa winner

[wary oak]

Lol

[analog lake]

Actually, the talk would.be an Alonso 3rd championship

[hardy briar]

Holy cow, excellent work!

[idle gale]

When F1 photographer Darren Heath discovered McLaren's second brake pedal, confirming his suspicion after he noticed one of the McLaren's rear brakes were glowing hot more then usual

[sand oyster]

A 2nd break pedal

Wow

[round swift]

Prancing donkey managed to get it banned though

[idle gale]

(Judge Dredd mode activated)

"I am the law!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MftBKQ9CaZQ

[past drift]

https://tenor.com/view/i-am-the-law-helmet-talk-snod-gif-17555391

[outer pier]

Aftermath of Berger's 1993 Brazil GP start accident.

And heres Alonso after his hard hit at Interlagos in 2003, Webber was also involved

[analog lake]

There are a lot of parts of cars that are really difficult to find evidence of or document. My current project is recreating all the F1 cars and drivers from 67. I probably have 100-140 hours into my Eagle project with 60% of that being research. The undercarriage of the Eagle was a needle in the haystack

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/547538182565265429/1119757891763716136/image.png

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/413007764483342339/1087972211652050975/image.png

The nose was pretty easy to find though

I will be doing the Lotus next.

After I texture this and model Dan Gurney.

[oblique dock]

You’re gonna model Dan Gurney as well?

That’s pretty cool

[outer pier]

Wow.

That is dedication

And very impressive

[round swift]

What software?

[river cave]

I recommend the One: Life on the Limit documentry

Andretti is pretty heartbroken about the whole thing to this day

saying "Had Dr. Watkins been in charge, I'd have Ronnie sitting next to me right now"

[analog lake]

Blender, but I use 3d coat for textures

[analog lake]

Dude, I watched that live on ABC world sports. It was I believe a rebroadcast, but same day.

That was the first time I knew I was watching F1. Before that CART and F1 sorta blurred together

[unique pagoda]

Still don’t know what CART is lol

What’s the difference between that and Indycar?

[past drift]

there was a political split iirc

[unique pagoda]

Oh

[meager pewter]

CART is the name for the POolitical body: Championship Auto Racing Teams

[oblique dock]

CART was also one of the two series that was formed during the Indycar split

[idle gale]

Even more divided than the FISA-FOCA War that was going on in F1 around the 1980s

[idle gale]

Although ironically it was the FISA-FOCA War that led to the modern F1 management that we know today

[unique pagoda]

I see, thx!

Was always confused

[old ember]

Anyone know where to watch older f1 races

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/JCeR5xs9KR4

[paper fossil]

I hate how the two have to be considered the same

But of course it should be like that because they were effectively the same thing

Otherwise you would have no way of deciding which is which

The CART that challenged F1 for popularity followed on from what came out of the first split with USAC

[analog lake]

CART was Indycar. When they raced the Indy 500, that race alone fell under USAC rules. In 94? Indy Racing League was formed. CaRT changed to Champcar and eventually died with most of the teams switching to Indycar, which is the series it is now

When I say CART was Indycar, at that time it was a nickname only

[analog lake]

Oi, back in the day with actual shifting and vlipping the throttle on the downshifts

[idle gale]

Even though if some cars like the Ferrari having the Semi Auto paddle shifter, they still have to manually rev match during the down shifts. In fact, I believe either the Williams FW14B or the FW15C were the ones that introduced the Auto Rev Match that are featured in the Automatic Gearboxes nowdays

This commentary does note the FBW brake and gearbox systems having the Auto Blip system within the FW15C
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ykV2u-TqRQ

[oblique dock]

I thought Mclaren were the first to introduce the flyby wire system

[wooden cove]

https://youtu.be/QeQ_jVjBvg4

[wary oak]

They did in 1992

According to Motorsport.com

“At the Brazilian Grand Prix early in the season, the McLaren MP4/7 ran with electronically managed hydraulic actuators instead of the traditional throttle cable.”

[hollow otter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxWiZT98OAo&ab_channel=19Bozzy92

[meager pewter]

Oooooh old Canada through the final straight fast chicane, so good

[river cave]

The fact the Mercedes is keeping up and overtaking a F1 car that was built over 10 years after the Merc is amazing

[snow lichen]

das dope

[outer pier]

Anywhere really, Twitter, Facebook, Youtube, etc. if your looking for full races there are some uploaded by the official F1 channel on YT

[idle gale]

The fire spitting McLaren

[frozen prism]

if you wanna see the real fire spitters just look at the 80's turbo cars

[hollow otter]

https://youtu.be/zGA39vxhbMo

[meager pewter]

https://external-preview.redd.it/G_WxycNAPbe0z7f5VUOtxyslbA6IQ9S6uppI7rk7N1c.jpg?auto=webp&s=44dee152a1b1ef47366b025d581c4b70b09304ca

No.

Traction control instead o turbo lag even if the anti-lag'd make the flames bigger...

[old ember]

Gotcha

[timber warren]

Lotus

[wary oak]

Honda

[round swift]

Sennuh

[timber warren]

I

[leaden jewel]

came.

[timber warren]

No

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/aP8Cmc8MGoI

https://youtu.be/FsLBKDk_HQ0

Before Nakajima made his debut with Lotus in 1987

[flat schooner]

I've been watching the 2015 US Grand Prix in my free time recently. I think people forget how good Vettel was that year tbh. He was actually ahead of Rosberg in the championship right up until Hamilton wrapped it up.

[idle gale]

OBJECTIVE UPDATED: DEFEND FROM SALO

[round swift]

And defend he did!

[broken remnant]

Yup

[oblique dock]

The MP4/4B

[wary oak]

Yup

[zealous token]

https://fxtwitter.com/TomP1Bellingham/status/1676357175201918978?s=20

[oblique dock]

Surprise Jenson at the end

[zealous token]

Jenson jumpscare

[hollow otter]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWvQkL9nE6U&ab_channel=LmsRacer7

glorious v10

[tepid vigil]

What year is this photo?

93?

[oblique dock]

1992

Mansell was still at Williams

[ancient stone]

oh ffs Ferrarista

let me have my moment 😭

[timid gate]

I'm shit at it. I can't help you

[oblique dock]

Also, you can see the Honda logo on the Mclaren

[timid gate]

just a time where Ferrari was actually good

[oblique dock]

Ah shit. My bad, man

[ancient stone]

Nah it’s okay man, just joking - you gucci 😂 👍

[oblique dock]

Ferrari was dogwater in 1992

[tepid vigil]

Yo tyy

[oblique dock]

np

[oblique dock]

The F92A was terrible, and Capelli disliked it a lot. Not only that, but 1992 has to be by far, Ferrari’s worst season of the 1990’s

[timid gate]

well, I'm closing my mouth then

[tepid vigil]

Does anyone have a old f1 wallpaper like the image I sent?

[oblique dock]

Ferrari encountered a slump from 1991-1995. And of course there was 1996 when Michael Schumacher first arrived. (And the the rest was history)

[timid gate]

ok ok. Thank you!

[oblique dock]

No problem

[river cave]

Everyone: 👋

Jenson: Eyyyyyyy

[round swift]

when hope existed my boys wouldn't end up F1's most expensive failure

[outer pier]

ae

[past drift]

be careful with #rules 2 with this kind of images 😉

[outer pier]

B. Mclaren { 🇳🇿 } Victory

Suzuka, Japanese GP Podium 1988 (A. Senna BRA-🇧🇷 ) "Senna Champion"

[wooden cove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk2p2nRK-p4

[oblique dock]

I wonder what’s the context behind this

[round swift]

https://youtu.be/hxGl_6XaEzU

[wary oak]

Lmao 🤣

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/LWs3p4HQAPs

[vague tusk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnwJBzqvc4w bring this track limits back

[wise dirge]

That's sick ngl

Basically the track limits were just whatever the car could handle

[idle gale]

Paul Hawkin's car after it was recovered from the harbour, apparently

[idle gale]

When McLaren "unofficially" became the Silver Arrows

[wary oak]

When McLaren ‘Mercedes’ became the Silver Arrows lol

[round swift]

https://youtu.be/2AGBTr7qsmk

[wary oak]

Who are the actual real drivers?

Should be simple

[oblique dock]

Oh look, it’s Ayrton Senna but with his helmet colors being changed

Kinda reminds me of Ivan Capelli’s helmet tbh

[idle gale]

The crash Michael had during the 2001 Australian GP that almost everybody seems to have forgotten about

[outer pier]

schumacher finds senna poster

[wooden cove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-S85xxMNI4

[wary oak]

I believe it was oil from Heidfeld that made him lose control

[hollow otter]

https://youtu.be/MDqUs5Cm2fA

[idle gale]

The moment when Ferrari skipped a heartbeat or two

[past drift]

it was in practice?

[upbeat gate]

Hmm yeah.

[slow grail]

12.07.98: michael schumacher wins the british gp inside the pit lane

[wooden cove]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x3RJUOPPKk
so much better than current one

[past drift]

eh, not that sure

it's a blast to walk though

[wooden cove]

lmao true

[wheat wasp]

@open frost

[woven zinc]

epic troll moment

also tmw I had Schumi winning the race through serving his penalty as my server pfp before my Nitro ran out

[tough talon]

https://twitter.com/ESPNF1/status/1679121359597719552

ESPN F1 (@ESPNF1)

Sebastian Vettel took Ayrton Senna's McLaren MP4/8 out for a few laps around Silverstone 🤩

(via @formula_nerds)

Likes

24707

Retweets

1600

▶ Play video

Twitter · Jul 12, 2023, 1:31 PM

[slow grail]

105

66

49

[oblique crystal]

[idle gale]

The Hills

[grim rover]

fun fact: every Formula 1 driver with the surname "Hill" has won a World Title

[past drift]

not fun fact: every Formula 1 driver with the surname "Hill" had one of their F1 teammates killed during a race

[grim rover]

hold up really?

[past drift]

yes sir

Wolfgang von Trips for Phil Hill,
Jim Clark for Graham Hill,
Ayrton Senna for Damon Hill

[wary oak]

damnnn never thought of it that way

[past drift]

neither did I, until today lol

sparked from a remark with a friend, that both american drivers who won the WDC, won it because their closest rival, who was their teammate, died.

[outer pier]

Bruce Mclaren, one of the Most overlooked drivers in motorsport history, such a good guy, who started an empire of domination

Can-Am racing Series Champ 1967-1969

[round swift]

Anyone know why the Leyton House crashed at Goodwood? The rear tyres locked up so possibly brakes or wheel bearing. But they’re maintained pretty well so no clue.

If this was a modern car I’d say BBW failure

[outer pier]

Wait

when was this? like what year

[glad orchid]

This year

[oblique dock]

Reminds me of the time a Lotus 98T crashed at Goodwood in 2013

https://youtu.be/DWKdckeWlRI

[woven zinc]

Greg Moore 😔

gone way too soon

[upbeat gate]

Man, it's been almost 24 years after his death.

[wary oak]

Is there a video of this

https://youtu.be/TuM73S3Wk7I

I found it

[unique pagoda]

That London Rowing Club helmet is so recognizable

[north sand]

Congrats @unique pagoda, you're now on lap 20

[round swift]

Pain

[round swift]

Wow.

If I remember correctly wasn’t there someone who took a classic Lotus up the hill and was fatally injured

The safety is really poor, one slight moment especially towards the end, and you’re in a pile of trees

It would be interesting to know all (if any) safety improvements over the last 20 years

[oblique dock]

I remember this

[wooden night]

can anyone tell me if this is a mclaren or a ferarri suit?

[molten salmon]

McLaren

[molten salmon]

That photo is from 1984, Niki Lauda in McLaren. Easy way to spot is the Boss, Saima and Hercules sponsors

[past drift]

and the lack of ferrari logo on the suit

[wary oak]

Lol true

[wooden night]

thanks!

i was just confused because i thought both ferarri and mclaren had malboro as their sponsor at the time

[wary oak]

They did

1993 Ferrari had an Marlboro sponsor sticker

[past drift]

almost everyone had Marlboro as a sponsor in that time period

[upbeat gate]

Including Leyton House of Ivan Capelli.

[wispy wedge]

Should have won a race

[round swift]

Fav all time driver

[hollow otter]

https://youtu.be/jvG2uWyIFrU

[upbeat gate]

I'm not a fan of V10. Here's V12.
https://youtu.be/MMCXYovkX_s

[slender veldt]

i only hear japanese dudes

[upbeat gate]

https://youtu.be/OTBVAcQA-90

[past drift]

that v12 sounds so good

[woven zinc]

it really does

[oblique dock]

Aw hell naw

[past drift]

lol

[upbeat gate]

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8jZhDzXi8o

[meager pewter]

BOSS = TAG-Porsche = McLaren

[wooden cove]

Idk if this is a real article

[wary oak]

I’m not sure but I remember an online article basically saying that Fangio thought Jim Clark was the greatest racing driver ever

[craggy ember]

How did Senna end up with number 8 in 1993?

I thought they had 11 and 12 during that number system

Or did Lotus have 11 and 12

[past drift]

they did, but you're still asking a right question

since Williams won the WCC they got to swap their numbers, 5 and 6, with McLaren which had them in 92

but it's Benetton that got them when they had 19 and 20 in 92
and McLaren got the 7 and 8 of Brabham, left vacant because Brabham went defunct

[idle gale]

The Trulli Express

[round swift]

He did this almost every race in 2005

[hollow otter]

https://youtu.be/j-vvwv4eDQo

[paper fossil]

He did it because he had a knack for outperforming himself in qualifying in a car that had no race pace

[molten salmon]

Mostly because he always underfuelled the car

[idle gale]

Ayrton was one of the few drivers during his time to wear gloves with the stitches and seams on the outside instead of the inside.

[idle gale]

Hmm....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBNN3Q-F4qI

[paper fossil]

Torque control

[idle gale]

The sound of the classic engines
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAw4LEmFJVg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-y229d958

[round swift]

https://youtu.be/CFBpXmSbXFI

[idle gale]

Before Fernando had his deckchair moment

[north sand]

Congrats @idle gale, you're now on lap 20

[round swift]

"It was so easy haha..... No it wasn't"

[oblique dock]

Spain 1999 moment

[distant garnet]

What was Sauber's engine in 2005 again?

[oblique dock]

Still Petronas

[analog jasper]

Weren't they just rebranded ferrari engines

[oblique dock]

Yup

[idle gale]

Fastest during testing. Slowest throughout the season

[river cave]

he do be cleaning

[wary oak]

Believe it or not, a small town in which I live in, has a 1991 NSX red at the Honda Dealership right now! It looks so awesome! I’ll see if I can find some pictures of it

[past drift]

wow neat

[meager pewter]

How?

Oh great refresh Discord

[outer dagger]

Damnnnn

[distant garnet]

https://youtu.be/8asphRjfxII

[agile surge]

Ivan Capelli was a great driver

[indigo phoenix]

Yet another great talent broken by Ferrari.

[paper fossil]

1992 Ferrari seat was funny

Martini claiming he had a contract which is disputed

Piquet, Senna, Prost, Mansell were all possibilities

Berger as well

"In 1991 I signed a contract with Ferrari for '92," Martini insists. "And Ferrari changed their minds and put me in Scuderia Italia and Ivan Capelli in Ferrari instead. In my whole life I had wanted to and worked to get myself in a Ferrari and I when was inside, at the last moment, they changed me and put me in the Scuderia Italia."

It was disappointing for Martini but it was not his fault. It was ultimately down to his future teams' belief that he had already signed the better driver.

"I know what happened but it is difficult to explain. It was not down to my pace. When Claudio Lombardi came in at Ferrari in 1992 he spoke with the boss of Scuderia Italia, and asked them what he thought of his potential driver-line up for 1992 - Martini and Jean Alesi.

"He was told that they had Capelli and he could have Martini, and they thought they had the better driver.

"The day after Lombardi came to Scuderia Italia, not knowing very well the situation of the drivers, Lombardi put an offer to them. 'What do you think if I give to you our engine but you give us Capelli and we give you Martini. They said OK!

"And this has been my career. Ferrari for me, as an Italian driver, for all drivers even, it is the top. I got two points for Scuderia Italia. I then could rejoin Minardi and for the next three years I scored points."

[round swift]

haha Michael go brrrrr

[distant garnet]

https://youtu.be/vE-kTmcmisE

[oblique dock]

Superb find

Also, the sound of that Porsche V12 is rather interesting

[distant garnet]

Alboreto is one of F1's most underrated Italian drivers,and the most underrated Ferrari driver

[oblique dock]

I’d say there are a few others that might be a candidate for most underrated Ferrari driver

Also, let’s not forget about Alboreto’s Le Mans victory

[distant garnet]

Both Alboreto and Ferrari actually had a chance to win the 1985 season

After this it was hell for both

[oblique dock]

But of course, reliability issues struck

[distant garnet]

Blud got four retirements in a row

[oblique dock]

I wonder how Alboreto would do if he went to Ferrari one season earlier. The 126C2B/C3 won the 1983 WCC after all, but then again, Alboreto was just starting out in F1

[oblique dock]

1986 was so forgettable for Ferrari

[distant garnet]

They almost got threatned by Ligier that season fr

[oblique dock]

Performance aside, the F186 didn’t even look all that good

It’s like Ferrari tried making their own version of the MP4/2

But it went so wrong

[distant garnet]

Ferrari during early 80s was usually a team who just copied any team rather than finding their own solutions

https://youtu.be/DEppkWqZdjI

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/J5wOOgKd96Y On the topic of the F186

[distant garnet]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/Cl4jvF8vY6j/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[past drift]

including the 126C2?

[past drift]

first car to introduce the rear wing supported by two pillars on either extremity rather than a central one, afaik!

[paper fossil]

Bruh

When Postlethwaite was about and Migeot?

Seems like an awfully harsh branding

I mean I don’t think Alboreto was ever going to beat Prost in 1985

And there was an array of better talent than people like Johansson, Alboreto, Tambay etc

Arnoux is a weird one because he probably did have the talent but it never worked properly with Ferrari

[round swift]

Ah yes, the 2000 French GP

Michael first cuts in front of DC at the start making him lose position to Barrichello, and then later deploys some "pragmatic" tactics to defend his position leading to the famous middle finger

[indigo phoenix]

Oh fuck me 2000s races count as classic

Aging is bad actually

[indigo phoenix]

All for his engine to fail anyways lmao

[woven zinc]

I feel ya

[distant garnet]

https://youtu.be/uBdSBrevDnw

F1's first Turbocharged car

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/P0lWdUXwVJs

[sour moon]

I found this. https://vxtwitter.com/krisvand2/status/1688440629250932736?

[indigo phoenix]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CeIE_VPWvng dear Andrea Colombo I worship at your altar

[oblique dock]

It’s a shame the Alfa Romeo V8 Turbos were unreliable as hell

[past drift]

funny, i wonder why they put that castle prop on the old banking

[river cave]

Michael's recovery during 1999:

[oblique dock]

Go away.

I'm busy watching old footage of the Ford GBA V6 Turbo being tested in the Lola Haas car by Patrick Tambay and Alan Jones in 1986

[paper fossil]

Patrick Tampax

[oblique dock]

Ricardo Tosser

[paper fossil]

Mr Jones called that Haas Lola with the Hart engines the hand grenade car

I also like how he once purposefully binned the car so he could get back on his jet

[oblique dock]

💀

[paper fossil]

Most terrible things happened with Haas Lola tbh

I have no clue why Neil Oatley left Williams for it

Jones made sense because the man loved money

For doing a dangerous job

[oblique dock]

I wonder how things would've been if Oatley didn't go to Haas-Lola

[paper fossil]

He would have been at Williams

Until he decided no

And then likely got McLaren anyway

[oblique dock]

And we all know what happened next.

[paper fossil]

MP4/5

[oblique dock]

MP4/6

[paper fossil]

MP4/10

W car

Idk how he managed to design such a piece of shit

Or part of it I should say

Idk whether the chassis was really the biggest problem

[oblique dock]

The MP4/10 was ass

[paper fossil]

But this was the car that Nichols found out that both the rear and front wing effectively fell off while braking

The effect at least was that

Annoying because the two previous cars had actually been good

This was the first truly awful car since the M28/29

[oblique dock]

Truly forgettable cars

[paper fossil]

I mean it has to be said

When Mika finished in 1994 it was a podium

It was a good car

[oblique dock]

Shame the Peugeot engine was shite

[paper fossil]

Happens when you basically take the WSC engine

Peugeot would have probably got better though

The worst thing they did was expect their customers to do well despite paying nothing into development

But 1997 was good

They had one of the most powerful engines

It was reliable

[oblique dock]

Just because a 3.5L V10 worked in a different category doesn't mean it'll work in F1

[oblique dock]

Jordan scored some podiums

[paper fossil]

It was only Jordans poor execution that stopped them winning a race

And a rookie line up

Something Gary Anderson has admitted

[oblique dock]

Fisi and Ralf Schumacher

Imagine if Damon Hill went to Jordan a year earlier than expected

And then Fisi would probably take up his seat at Williams

I mean Arrows

[paper fossil]

Better

Barrichello stays

[paper fossil]

I mean Ligier was a possibility

[oblique dock]

oh yeah....

[paper fossil]

Because it was owned by Briatore and Fisi was his driver at Minardi

That he also owned

Originally there was plans for Walkinshaw to buy Ligier

Moved to Arrows instead which pissed off Dernie

Because he was expecting it to be Ligier

Having asked about his future with Briatore

As he was on loan from Benetton to help

Is also all the talk of Panis drive never being safe at all

[oblique dock]

Walkinshaw owned Ligier would've been something

[paper fossil]

Probably a better platform to build from

[oblique dock]

Yeah

[paper fossil]

Though

I mean in the end idk what engines they would have had without Nakano

Unless they bothered paying

Never a great situation

[oblique dock]

I mean, I could either see Ford or Peugeot being possibilites

[paper fossil]

As Williams found out in 2008-2009

[paper fossil]

Would be Ford

[oblique dock]

Besides, it's not the first time they had Ford on board with them

[paper fossil]

And the same awful V8 fords

That Tyrrell got

Might have got Hart idk

[oblique dock]

I was thinkning the Ford V10's Stewart used

[paper fossil]

Nah

That was an exclusive deal

That Sauber had previously

[oblique dock]

Oh

[paper fossil]

They would need to settle for the V8

I mean they always bring in Nakano anyway because cba paying for Mugens

And it is write off year practically

With a bonus being the car is ok and they have bridgestones with a good enough driver like panis

[meager pewter]

Well I believe they had more creedence to use it because it was built for F1 let's be real, but the issue being that it was built for F1 but 680bhp not 760, and who would've throught things that transmit that power, aka flywheels, don't cope with that jump?

[paper fossil]

That was the second one they brought in for 94 wasn’t it

Which was described as a hand grenade

Much like how Alan Jones described Brian Harts engines

Though I am a bigger fan of the Yamaha being called a sewing machine engine

[meager pewter]

Yeah the A4 became the A6 that year

[magic mortar]

brawn gp

[round swift]

Idk if it counts but today I'm seeing a few BossGP's (2000s F1 cars)

[indigo phoenix]

I mean if we’re going my >20 years is classic… yeah 2000s is 😭 Wild. BUT that’s cool as hell

[agile surge]

well the upper limit here is 03

[upbeat gate]

2004 next year.

[agile surge]

yep

[indigo phoenix]

Nawww cause I feel old now 2003 is classic

[agile surge]

I’m classic

amazing

[upbeat gate]

Epic

[indigo phoenix]

Oh no

[paper fossil]

Good stuff about Reutemann

I love Nigel Roebucks impressions of him, Patrick Head and Rob Walker in this

[wooden cove]

can u send link to the whole video

[paper fossil]

Frank Dernie podcast on YouTube

Will be the first thing that comes up

He says some excellent stuff

[wooden cove]

thanks man

[paper fossil]

The Rob Walker impression

God F1 genuinely sounds so much more interesting and better back then as regards to running a team and also building a car

[wooden cove]

ikrrr

[paper fossil]

Interesting he says semi automatics and the braking systems we have now are the two things that have most killed the overtaking aspect of racing

And his points are reasonably sound

Also engines being easier now pedal wise apparently

5% throttle travel = 5% torque

Though I don’t know if he’s right about that

His point about the DFV being difficult though sounds valid

Can tell he hated working with Mansell

[hardy briar]

Cars got faster and more consistent, but the racing got worse, kind of the tradeoff we got. :/

[idle gale]

When the first corner turns into a 10 cylinder wrecking yard

[wise dirge]

what a great gp

[idle gale]

Oops...

[round swift]

It's even funnier that everyone had to do another formation lap because of this

[wise dirge]

reminds me of that stupid glitch at Abu dhabi on f1 22

where the last guy would park sideways 😭😭

[past drift]

it’s even funnier he did that 2y after

[round swift]

guess the year

[oblique dock]

really?

It's 2001

Kimi's debut year

[outer pier]

there is no tomorrow!

[wary oak]

Guess the car

[wooden cove]

a brabham im assuming

[paper fossil]

Yeah well idk which chassis

Could be BT19/20/24

[wary oak]

Ya Bt19

[idle gale]

The Lancia turned Ferrari (?)

[fleet wigeon]

Michele alboreto onboard 1990

[clever ravine]

woah

[paper fossil]

The over rev is crazy

Though Alboreto got constantly berated by Ken Tyrrell for breaking DFVs

These are the days when the new boys to GP were told their gearboxes wouldn’t be lasting if they didn’t know how to manage them in a proper race distance

[paper fossil]

He was known to not use the clutch when downshifting

To skip gears

Clearly learnt how to do it properly

[oblique dock]

Meanwhile there was Senna’s downchanges

If you look at his onboards from Suzuka 1989, Jerez 1990, and Adelaide 1991, the over rev is also a bit crazy

[wary oak]

Yup

[fleet wigeon]

David Coulthard Williams fw17 onboard 1995

The renault engine sound though

[next pier]

This might sound really far fetched but does anyone have any idea how I could possibly get in touch with someone that handled the merchandise for BMW Williams back in the day?

[final cedar]

Ohhhh my goodness, that sounds amazing

[meager pewter]

https://youtu.be/fjXw3dHaqcQ

From this video

Trust the Japanese to have the best quality stuff from the period

[paper fossil]

Must just be the audio quality but you definitely get a sense 1995 is when the V10’s became the full screamer

In 94 onboards and prior they sound just bit different

[past drift]

ye when they reduced the displacement from 3.5L to 3L

[paper fossil]

Yeah that seems fair

[past drift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYpP6TrDEe0 vs https://youtu.be/fKw7K3d1o7Q

[paper fossil]

I forgot about any displacement change that year

But I suppose the 4 strokes screamed louder after they reduced it to 800cc for 2007

And they were reving them like crazy

Well Ducati were. A key to their success at least that year

[past drift]

im not well versed into motogp 😄

[meager pewter]

https://youtu.be/bjou0zRJZBE

Also revs surprisingly didn't go up too much from 1994-1995

But the V8's tone was strange with the 3.5's

[paper fossil]

V10 one to me is different

V12 the least

[distant garnet]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/CwDseHrtjQ1/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

[river cave]

Apparently someone knows the 4th number after it and the order was actually still correct

[round swift]

I love Michael's face here

"I'm crashing you out tomorrow you little shit"

Meanwhile Heinz-Harald looks like he'd rather be anywhere else

[fleet wigeon]

Stefano Modena onboard

[paper fossil]

So damm physical

[meager pewter]

I wonder how much rpm these engines were built to take as a safety factor for a bad shift

[paper fossil]

Lol

Fucked within a race distance

Throw it out

Probably

I mean as for just a bad shift idk

As I said previously Tyrrell readily got onto Alboreto for skipping gears on downshift

Which would wreck the DFV

I mean I remember Newey saying even in 05 McLaren and Mercedes had failed to factor in Kimis use of revs for the start of Imola 05 which destroyed the driveshaft

I guess the only thing there is they had that radical positioning of the crankshaft in 05

[past drift]

in general? or the judd in particular

[meager pewter]

In General. You can often hear the skip shifts have higher revs than their powerbands so I'm thonkin' they must've built the valvetrain to sustain a bit more than that

[past drift]

yeah probably, the heavy downshifting at suzuka 1989 always gets me

good q

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/Nb1n4QSEBRw?feature=shared

Patrese’s downshifts here are smooth

Especially his downshifting from 6 to 4 to 2 into turn one

[past drift]

dang yeah that's smooth af

he must have had loads of confidence in the brakes

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/zTyzCv8PkQs?feature=shared

The sound of the V10 when it over revs on downshifts

[past drift]

yeah it's great

[oblique dock]

It’s brutal

[past drift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_PBvTHWazs

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/d6BjcEoMgXg?feature=shared

Berger was driving like a madman here

[past drift]

as he would

classic de Cesaris not looking in his mirrors as well lol

[paper fossil]

Yeah this is mad

I strongly side with Dernie when he talked about the driver being taken further out of the picture and that diminishing the on track action

[oblique dock]

Berger’s disappointment says everything

[paper fossil]

As opposed to it being predominantly an aerodynamic problem

[past drift]

did hetalk about that in a podcast or in a book?

[paper fossil]

Podcast

With motorsport magazine

He said the two things were that

And brakes

[past drift]

guessing he'd prefer the driver to be more important in the result 😄

[paper fossil]

I have to agree with his reasonings

The DFV point he always makes is interesting though

Everything being computer matched now to him is ridiculous

Time is being found minimally on the track because most of the drivers perfect things

I would imagine now if everyone was in the same car the field from first to last would be covered by about 1% per lap

I mean again you could argue going back to manual gearboxes would be backwards

But hey I’m literally still driving with a gear shifter

Most of the people ik are as well

[past drift]

what is it?

[paper fossil]

I will get it in video

Rather than quote or paraphrasing

[past drift]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clVI3jxMN_w

before you post it

also this track was low downforce, sliding galore after the main straight

[paper fossil]

Prost masterclass that day

[oblique dock]

And then there was Senna’s accident at the Peraltada

Followed by him getting injured the year after that

[paper fossil]

God there is so much stuff it is hard to find the DFV thing

Will probably take me a while

[past drift]

P13 to P1 with a 25s lead over his own teammate

[oblique dock]

Geez, come to think of it

Senna was caught out by a puncture in the race in 1990

He crashed at the Peraltada in 1991

And he crashed again, plus injuring himself in 1992

(Even though 1991 and 1992 happened before the races themselves)

[past drift]

not a happy record at this track for him

[oblique dock]

Yea…

https://youtu.be/lelNF_lkkBs?feature=shared

The ironic thing about this was that the crash looked tame, but the outcome was pretty bad for Senna

[meager pewter]

Wow that clutch load sounds worrying

Also those Honda V12's sound so weird, I know why but

[oblique dock]

Meanwhile the Lamborghini engines from 1990 sounded sorta similar to the Honda V12’s

https://youtu.be/4SICzfxFpbA?feature=shared

It has that same raspiness to it

https://youtu.be/4FYXCfpUAlw?feature=shared

[meager pewter]

Oh wow so it does

[oblique dock]

Yup

[meager pewter]

Yeah they both must've had 60°V12's with 12-4-2 with unequal bewteen the pairs

But Lambo was known for running equals

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/Wc53Zm-egy4?feature=shared Meanwhile there was Mansell’s Ferrari at the 1989 Brazilian GP. It too had that raspiness to the exhaust note

[meager pewter]

https://youtu.be/_zAeX-SittI?si=KMsNr2oQCeSvmtt9

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/P0lWdUXwVJs

[meager pewter]

This is more what I'm used to with the Lambos

[oblique dock]

Same

[meager pewter]

A bit more of a Ferrari imitation

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/guaoUC_jVWE?feature=shared And of course there is the Yamaha V12

[meager pewter]

The Porsche didn't sound too bad either

[oblique dock]

Yeah. The HKS and Isuzu as well

[meager pewter]

Me and the Bois

I love the HKS man

It was just like 4 or 6 guys managing to make a Honda copy that was only down a couple revs and a couple ponies

[oblique dock]

The Isuzu also had a lack of revs compared to the Honda

[meager pewter]

Well yeah but for all injtents and purposes even then HKS was massive by comparison

[paper fossil]

I think an ideal bullet avoided

All the comments around the time was suggestions of doing things efficiently

[meager pewter]

I honestly think it still would've been better than Peugeot

And the drivers thought so too

[paper fossil]

I mean Chrysler for certain would have put more effort into this supply of engines than had been seen in the previous seasons prior but a solid team like Larrousse had suffered in 92

[meager pewter]

Oh yeah, and around that time Chrysler also sold Lambo to the Sussy SEA geezers

[paper fossil]

Peugeot came good though

[meager pewter]

They did?

[paper fossil]

94 was a horrendous mistake made

On reliability

But by 97 they had one of the most powerful engines in Formula One

And Jordan with better execution would have won races in 97

[meager pewter]

Tell that to Prost

[paper fossil]

Multiple ones

Yes

[oblique dock]

1995 and 1997 were good years

[paper fossil]

At Prost they basically said fuck spending more money on this

And stopped developing

[oblique dock]

Peugeot shot themselves in the foot once they signed with Prost

[paper fossil]

They had ok power but the engine by around 00 was way too heavy

Just as the likes of ilmor were finding neat ways to save weight

Was very crucial for the reg changes in 98

[meager pewter]

I think the best solution McLaren could've had for 1994 is Ford gave them EC's which they weren't going to do and the VB was stillborn by then, or McLaren got the Ilmor 2175B early from/with Sauber

[paper fossil]

The issue is

[oblique dock]

And dated

[paper fossil]

Peugeot still expected Prost to do well

[meager pewter]

Oh yeah I forgor the Asiatechs in a straightline were pretty nippy

[oblique dock]

The Ford engines, I’d see that happening

Only thing is that they’d still be stuck with customer engines

[meager pewter]

The 1994 EC was actually like... Good

[oblique dock]

As Benetton is still the factory team

[paper fossil]

I mean when Hakkinen finished in 94 more often than not he was on the podium

The chassis was still one of the best

Aerodynamically was sound

The engine when it wasn’t a hand grenade very decent

They started proofing those problems with Jordan immediately

[meager pewter]

Mfw I'm a flywheel for 680hp and 760hp wants to go through me

[paper fossil]

McLaren probably in the end got the security with Merc

But it was a tough ride

Peugeot was probably the best way to go for 94 with what was on offer

[meager pewter]

Hakkinen would agree

[paper fossil]

Looking at it in 93

[meager pewter]

O

[paper fossil]

I have to wonder how Prost would have done it

No less he wasn’t interested

After doing that test

[meager pewter]

I'm just tryna think what was on offer then

[paper fossil]

I assume that

And Ford

Idk

[meager pewter]

Neotech

[paper fossil]

Not looked much into the 94 engine dilemma

I mean the fact Briatore had to buy Ligier just to get Renaults engine supply says enough about the hole Honda left

And the really poorly thought out designs other manufacturers were coming and going with

[meager pewter]

Coz prior of course with Group C not being a lamb to slaughter and revs not quite as insane, Engines were flying left and right

But 93-94 was the confluence

[paper fossil]

The Porsche stuck together TAG engine was

Let’s say

L

Adrian Newey and Mansell then Schumacher would have been horrified

Though by the time Schumacher was consideration for Footwork the Porsche would have been gone

[meager pewter]

...

I mean they had that V10 done and dusted for 93

a return to reunion?

https://www.vw-dealer.jp/blog/shonan_kugenuma/P1140111.JPG

TIL the HKS 300E was another 75° unit

Seemed that that became the best of

https://twitter.com/frentzen_hh/status/1695198114997588257?s=20

Heinz Harald Frentzen (@frentzen_hh)

Jordan party in Silverstone with Mika

Twitter · Aug 25, 2023, 10:15 PM

[paper fossil]

You know having thought about Williams in 88 the Judd wasn’t bad at all then

March got up there with it

And most of Williams problems in 88 was active

[meager pewter]

Active what?

[oblique dock]

Y’know, the FW12C is an underrated car imo

[paper fossil]

Suspension

[oblique dock]

It not only performed well, but it also gave the Williams-Renault partnership its first victories

[meager pewter]

They tried it in 88?

I knew Lotus did in 87

[paper fossil]

They tried it before then

Dernie had done the whole thing himself for Williams

[meager pewter]

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2Fr_xhEYDRp2zIXtfdfm789G48208sDhtj1IWVx1xG6VE.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dffb54255977b3ddfb42a46b7f70b99a0610a62c3

But you see I'm an aesthetics man

[paper fossil]

That airbox was dire looking

[oblique dock]

That’s the FW13.

[meager pewter]

Awh man I liked the suacer airboxes

[meager pewter]

I... I know

[paper fossil]

Can’t lie I seem to remember the car they brought for Portugal 89 being incredibly disappointing

Williams at that time had a lot of problems with wind tunnel correlation

And someone had mucked things up

Head for certain wasn’t pleased

Newey was what really brought them back into proper contention

Having lost the only real aerodynamic guy they had in Dernie

[meager pewter]

Didn't Williams Copy March before they brought in Newey?

Coz of the flip in France?

[paper fossil]

Newey was like at Williams

By then

At least after France

He had his first days at Williams

[meager pewter]

I thought he was brought in in like... Oh wait the roll was 1990

OH THAT WAS IT

Newey had tried to get Suzuki into F1 on behalf of March

[paper fossil]

88 March is like one of the most influential cars in F1 history though for sure

[meager pewter]

Idk I probably talked about this

[paper fossil]

That is the platform to the furthering of aerodynamic understanding

Newey had to go about fixing issues he had created himself which made them uncompetitive the following season and into early 90

[meager pewter]

I got some goodies in regards to Newey in the previous year I'll put into #pitstop

[paper fossil]

Convincing a hired bookeeper to allow him to fix the problem with money

Before he then got effectively sacked/left

[meager pewter]

Oh yeah... Hearing Capelli talk about the whole Leyton House deal tbh is sad

Just sad

Akira Akagi basically March and gave 7 million on a handshake to Capelli to get him into F1 and it seems like he really enjoyed what he was doing at the time

https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fexternal-preview.redd.it%2FN5qA8zlCL1KeKO5mbRGZjDbt9d-8x0Qy6p467JXuu1Y.jpg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3Dd210bb3e618662b70c24f93b576ef36025d553ff

And judging from this it seems he still loved it, but alas... Japan Bubble

[paper fossil]

Leyton House I think was always likely to run out of steam

The fact some management changes which then enacted on personnel changes only made that happen quicker

Chris Murphy basically got told to be conservative

And they were

[oblique dock]

And then he had a run in with the authorities

[meager pewter]

Yeah, tbh I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't know what was going on either

I know businessmen aren't the most trustworthy bunch

But that crash... Iyyyeee

[paper fossil]

Too much shady shit back then

Middlebridge

Rossem

Murder F1 Team that was Larrousse

[meager pewter]

Oh yeah what was that about

[paper fossil]

Basically

This

One of the least known yet most remarkable stories of the era was that of Gerard Larrousse's partner Rainer Walldorf who was briefly involved in F1 in 1992. The 50-year-old German was actually called Klaus Walz and was wanted by the police in several countries in connection with four different - and rather nasty - murders. F1 only discovered this when news came from France that Walldorf's house had been raided early one morning by a posse of French police. He had taken his arrest calmly and asked if he might collect something important from the desk in his study. He rummaged around until he found the hand grenade he was looking for and then gave the assembled policemen a choice: they could all blow up together there and then, or he could take the police chief hostage and handcuff everyone else to the available furniture. The policemen had a vote and were manacled to the fixtures and fittings while Walz and the police chief went off in a car into the country. On the way he telephoned an accomplice and they met in the hills, leaving the police chief handcuffed to the steering wheel of his car, and throwing the hand grenade into a nearby chicken coop.

A month later Walz was tracked down to a hotel in Germany where, after being surrounded for nine hours by German police, he was killed in a gun battle...

[meager pewter]

Awh wonderful

[paper fossil]

Was another guy

But I forget his name

His story was less convoluted

But he had been working on Larrousse also

I actually want to head over to Germany and find out more about this

If anything can be found out about it

[oblique dock]

Sassetti
Akagi

[paper fossil]

Like who was Klaus Walz actually

Etc

Mike Earle and Nigel Roebuck have some great quotes about Rossem though

"It turned out he had been embezzling money. Shocked me, I thought he was a straight guy. They tried to indicte him, but it turns out in Belgium, you can't be charged on a civil matter if you are a Member of Parliament. So, he stood far Parliament, and strangely he offered everyone free houses, free cars, free everything and he got elected. It was absolutely amazing. So he did two years of that, and the story goes when the King of Belgium was opening Parliament, he stood up and shouted 'Viva le Republique' and they arrested him and he went to prison for three years"

[meager pewter]

So what they just exploited his Malicious generosity and then had him arrested?

King moves

[glad orchid]

💀

[fleet wigeon]

Ayrton Senna onboard monaco 1987

[river cave]

I hope we go back to something like this

as in the sound

[indigo phoenix]

If I can’t be this level of unhinged in life then what’s the point

[fleet wigeon]

Thierry boutsen Renault 1989 french grand prix onboard

[meager pewter]

Weird hearing an F1 V10 only rev to what Sports cars did later on with the JUDD GV4

Like 11,000 range

[paper fossil]

That do be an interesting noise

[distant garnet]

https://www.ddinstagram.com/p/Cwf5Iw2NFcD/?igshid=NzZhOTFlYzFmZQ==

[paper fossil]

“Anything Formula One before 2003”

😭

[tacit gulch]

Eurgh my bad

[paper fossil]

Np 👍

[idle gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9oAEtDvgto

[wary oak]

25 years ago today

[slim eagle]

Michael Schumacher being told that he won the championship after colliding with his championship rival Damon Hill in the 1994 Adelaide Grand Prix

[paper fossil]

didn’t even get to lead a lap lmao

[woven zinc]

oh look, 2 Stewart SF01s and neither of them are stranded on the side of the track with a mechanical failure

[naive solar]

.sessions

[desert terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/impressive-darth-vader-gif-13593833

[woven zinc]

it sure was whenever one of them finished lmao

[desert terrace]

https://tenor.com/view/belgian-gp-1998-1998belgian-gran-prix-start-chaos-gif-17178509

they didnt finish often

[paper fossil]

Austria 97 a very interesting weekend and race

One of Jacques Villeneuve best Grand Prix peformances

That year and across his career as well

[past drift]

Trulli on that race omg

his first season, he's in a Prost, and he led for the first 37 laps

[paper fossil]

Prefer how Diniz was second in practice and then had two engine failures in qualifying

[past drift]

L

[paper fossil]

Hill also given the Arrows was good there was shocking

[past drift]

true true

the Arrows from Hungary onwards was quite rapid, given its weak engine

[paper fossil]

Panis would have so won Hungary if he had been healthy

Providing he gets a good quali

[past drift]

probably would have won at least one race

that season

[paper fossil]

Argentina

For sure

[past drift]

and this time, it would be on pure pace

[paper fossil]

Villeneuve was ill as fuck in that race

[past drift]

yeah, the fact Irvine of all drivers, finished less than 1s behind Villeneuve tells a lot

[paper fossil]

I think it is very built Villeneuve managed to cope with tyre blisters in Spain as well

Alesi somewhat did

Rest of the Goodyear guys had problems

I will die on a hill to defend Villeneuve in 97 though

That Williams had no mechanical grip and its set up window was so narrow

[past drift]

https://www.statsf1.com/en/1997/australie/qualification.aspx that gap

[paper fossil]

One of the all time pole laps

No question

[idle gale]

On the old Spa

[torn finch]

Does anyone know any saves from 2000-2009?

[hybrid mango]

Because this Weekend McLaren celebrates 60 years

What was your Favorite Classic McLaren Cars

These are Mine

1976 M23-D
1984 MP4/2
1988 MP4/4
1993 MP4/8

[round swift]

West McLarens were the bomb

Sometimes literally (thank you, Ilmor)

[paper fossil]

MP4/13

[oblique dock]

1991 MP4/6
1984-86 MP4/2
1998 MP4/13
1988 MP4/4
1989-90 MP4/5

[paper fossil]

MP4-20 has to be up there

[meager pewter]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/06/b1/06/06b10663c6a5ff1dd91bfef94aaf1d88.jpg

https://www.racinghalloffamecollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2001-mika-6.jpeg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c3/9a/88/c39a88bec91b98ef879abb81b6914836.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3b/1e/b3/3b1eb350a6fb49b792206f228e1abd8d.jpg

[outer pier]

https://youtu.be/eyZMwgXg8YM Posting it here cause idk where else, 60 years

[wary oak]

MP4/6

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/f1wikia/images/f/fa/Ayrton_Senna_McLaren_MP4-6_1991_United_States.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1200?cb=20221027051002

[outer pier]

Mclaren MP4-4, or Mclaren M9A

[wary oak]

The last F1 car to win the championship with a manual gearbox and the only F1 car powered by a V12 engine to win it. Also arguably the best design aswell

[nocturne river]

Ayrton Senna’s Mclaren MP4/4 at the Mclaren Technology Centre

[vague tusk]

https://vxtwitter.com/PaulMcG92/status/1698650018981224621 flavio jumpscare

[paper fossil]

Podium being difficult?

Never was in doubt

Big fan of Fisichella only winning by 5.5 seconds despite literally starting 10+ places ahead of Barrichello and other top runners

[idle gale]

The day Michael won in the pitlane, while serving his penality

[analog fjord]

1990 mp4/5b
1988mp4/4
1976 m23d
1985 mp4/2

bit late but nvm

[woven zinc]

also late af but the 1993 MP4/8, the 1991 MP4/6, the 1989-1990 MP4/5(B) and the 1998 MP4-13

[terse wind]

There are many historic races that aryton senna did One more that many do not forget is the japan gp in 1988, when maclaren almost left aryton senna in the hand, it was when he left the p22 position for p1 it was for me and for many a recovery of history, and also because it was his first world title

[idle gale]

When Jordan had a unexpected championship contender

Actually, where there any other teams and drivers that got into an unexpected battle against the top teams/drivers for the championships?

[past drift]

could argue Wolf in 1977 was unexpected as it was a fresh team, maybe Ligier in 79?

depends on your criteria

[upbeat gate]

Name the team that have a greatest debut (1950-2003)

[past drift]

March

[sleek cargo]

Walter Wolf Racing

[storm tendon]

Whoever won in 1950

[past drift]

Alfa Romeo

[frozen prism]

probably Alfa Romeo

they were the dominant car that day

Fangio would've probably finished 1-2-3 with Farina and Fagioli if he didn't suffer a mechanical (or engine) failure

[wary oak]

Probably the Lotus 78. It was powered by a reliable but aging Cosworth DFV engine, and it managed to win the Constructors Championship. Mario Andretti, driving for Lotus, secured the Drivers Championship

[paper fossil]

Eh what

[frozen prism]

I mean I guess

I doubt anybody would have thought Lotus would be a contender in the fashion that they did that year

they literally dominated the season

[wary oak]

Yeah I mean they did finish second in the constructors the year before

[past drift]

don’t you mean 79?
by 1978, it was clear Lotus would win, all they had to do was make their 78 reliable, and they did

[meager pewter]

It was powered by an aging Cosworth DFV engine
You mean the engine all but what? 3 teams were still using?

[past drift]

and proved the best compromise until 1983

[paper fossil]

The DFV was like not remotely a bad engine to have till the big teams had a Turbo

So 81-82 time

It wasn’t that shocking Lotus had built another great car and were there for at least two seasons

Was way harder for Keke Rosberg in 82-83