classic-motorsport

[paper fossil]

slowly and surely developed a specific way for a constructor to remain in formula one as we entered the modern era

i mean lola had to literally be saved by Martin Birrane

and could then continue doing what they had for most of their existence

supply of chassis

[round swift]

You are talking in what-ifs and making conjectures, I'm talking about what's a documented reason for Lola's failure. We can't know for sure what would've happened with Lola and we never will because MasterCard killed any chance of it ever happening.

[paper fossil]

sure but mastercard being there in the first place is also important to lola

the very fact they caved into the agreement for entering a rushed 97 shows enough for the credibility it had

stuff like them building their own engine etc just sounds incredibly unremarkable as well

i don't think it is all that much a shame that the lola project didn't get anywhere past the disastrous aus weekend

i like how ford impounded their engines after the silverstone test as well to prevent them running in brazil

[round swift]

Anyways…

What they doing in this picture??

Lol

[oblique dock]

Huh. Looks like De Angelis is on a weighbridge

[meager pewter]

In regards to Lola, they also wanted their own engine program which fell through

[idle gale]

The OG Aston Martin team

Which didn't do so well

[paper fossil]

Sums up Gilles Villeneuve and De Cesaris well

[oblique dock]

Silverstone 1981

[paper fossil]

Ideal stuff

[lavish moth]

Reminded me of a school bus crossing the racetrack at circuit of the americas, F4 us championship that was

[analog fjord]

Cool car, tragic history

[oblique dock]

It was also used as some inspiration for the MP4/4

[analog fjord]

interesting

B or original spec bt52? Which camp are y’all on

[oblique dock]

Original spec

[analog fjord]

same here

It just looks cleaner

[oblique dock]

The huge rear wing kinda ruins the simplicity of the design

(For the B spec)

[analog fjord]

yeah

Although saying that i do like some big wing cars

The v wing tyrell 012 i find cool

Looks like a formula e car lol

[oblique dock]

I don't really see any semblance

[analog fjord]

Fair enough

Kinda what comes to mind when i see it tho

[oblique dock]

However.... There is this. The Longhorn LR02 (which is basically an old Williams FW07 used for sportscar racing)

[analog fjord]

wow

[oblique dock]

And here's the LR02 in its Indycar spec

Driven by 4x Indy 500 champ, Al Unser Sr.

[analog fjord]

Bt52 or 53?

[oblique dock]

52

[analog fjord]

I’m not too* sure but I’d probably say 52 too

[idle gale]

The last time Porsche had an engine on the F1 grid

[oblique dock]

That would be 1991

Porsche made their 3.5L V12 for the Footwork Arrows team, and it was horrible

They ended up switching back to Ford-Cosworth power

[past drift]

so Porsche started making a V10, like Renault did.
but then they had no team to put it in. so they put it in the cupboard.
to remember about it some time later and fitting it in the Carrera GT

[upbeat gate]

https://youtu.be/Bqd3kjJfR8M

[past drift]

love that vid

when most drivers drove super cautiously with the camera mounted, he drove as if it was a normal stint

[terse shell]

Fortnite Arena?

[analog fjord]

?

[tiny sierra]

very colorful

[weak hare]

i'm gonna do what's called a pro gamer move

literally 1984 tyrrell (the one where they put lead shot in the tanks lmao)

[onyx radish]

[round swift]

that livery is just so... loud

[meager pewter]

It's excellent

[heady flicker]

Unpopular opinion: Prost is the greatest ever

[oblique dock]

I think quite a few people in the server would agree on that, so I don’t think it’s entirely unpopular

[past drift]

.truth

[north sand]

Prost > Senna

[wary oak]

Top 5 greatest f1 driver

[lavish moth]

🐐

[upbeat gate]

Jim Clark and him is one of my favourites actually.

[elder seal]

A leyton house is also on the podium

It can be either Ivan Capelli or Mauricio Gugelmin

[past drift]

that would be Capelli

Gugelmin sadly retired while P2 that race

[lavish moth]

Capelli my beloved

It could have been a win...and possibly a double podium for leyton house

[past drift]

they had the pace for a double

alas.

[lavish moth]

yep, great strategy by them that race

[past drift]

didnt they basically not stopped at all?

[lavish moth]

yep, no stops

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSsJ8iAOtPI&ab_channel=TheMobileChicane I got to know about it throught this video, you can check it out if you want

[lavish moth]

while capelli was leading his left mirror fell off so he couldnt see prost if he was fanciyng a move after the main straight, to add to that oil pump fell off the cappelis car which made it even more difficult to keep the professor behind. Prost eventually flew by and cappeli made it to the finish line in second

[manic reef]

Funny how that time in F1 it was either the samey results or wildly impressive

[past drift]

most important thing for a top team then, was to be more reliable than the rest

[north sand]

Congrats @analog fjord, you're now on lap 5

[round swift]

He's number 2 on the list of the greatest drivers for me, only behind the Michael

[heady flicker]

Why do you consider Michael greater than Prost?

[round swift]

He had everything, consistency and strategic mind of Prost combined with aggression and speed of Senna. He was fast in the dry, fast in the wet, fast in the pack, out in front, in the qualifying. Born leader able to rally an entire team behind him like no driver before or since. Incredible at adapting to any given situation. He could take a mediocre car like B193 or a straight up dog like F310 and make it regularly compete at the front (while his teammates floundered). His sheer ability behind the wheel remains unparalleled imo.

I could go on and on, talk about his fitness and his complete approach to racing, mention some individual performances that were either a demonstration of power (Belgium '95) or straight up laughing at his rivals (Spain '96), the fact he was consistently a top dog from his Benetton debut in '91 all the way up to his first retirement in 2006... Point is, Michael was something else and there's reason why he's such an icon.

[analog fjord]

Went to beaulieu last june, here’s some cool cars i took pictures of

also whats the car next the williams ( red, black, gold)

[round swift]

Lotus from the 2010s I think

[analog fjord]

could be

thanks

[analog fjord]

i was guessing that too, just wondering if it could have been anything ekse

[round swift]

Different Lotus F1 team from the 1960s

[meager pewter]

it's a display car that's an amalgamation

[round swift]

Most F1 cars on display aren’t real

As they have no engines in them

[analog fjord]

damn😔 i feel like i've swindled y'all now

shoulda done some more research to see if they were real

[rare jackal]

The old Kyalami>>>

[round swift]

Rip Gilles Villeneuve - 1982 May 8th

[rare jackal]

What a driver

[round swift]

the way sharl and carlito are describing the current ferrari is eerily if not entirely similar to how alesi and capelli described the '92 car

something to think about

[round swift]

on another note, i bet some of you guys might know this

how did christian danner not only manage to qualify for four GPs in 1989, but actually manage to score points at phoenix

in a car with this poor pace

[oblique dock]

And it was a 4th place finish, too. Remarkable

[round swift]

tbf it was the 1989 US GP and it only had 6 finishers

[oblique dock]

oh wow

[round swift]

and the race didn't finish in allotted laps because 2 hour limit was reached

[oblique dock]

Huh. I gotta look back at the 1989 race

[round swift]

also a rare Arrows podium

[idle gale]

Basically an adapted USAC Indy series chassis with an F1 engine bolted to the back

Now where have we heard about an F1 team with a chassis that's from another Open Wheel racing series, attempted to be adapted for F1 and bolt a new engine in the back of said chassis?

[past drift]

Minardi!

[chrome basin]

epic

[upbeat gate]

https://youtu.be/tDPnURICn_8

[vague tusk]

30 years ago today

[tough talon]

simply a beautiful sight...

[past drift]

only time it happened iirc

[digital jungle]

It looks especially cool cuz it's the old Hockenheim

[digital jungle]

I love how diverse this podium is: 3 different teams, 3 different engines, 3 different nationalities, 3 different colors

[vague tusk]

correct

[paper fossil]

Same V8 Ford for Senna and Schumacher

Though not the same spec at that point in the season

[round swift]

Yup

[outer pier]

ah yes, prost, senna. and schumacher, 3 goats, 6 between prost and senna (this is before prost won 4 i believe) all together it would be 14 WDC between them all

bruce mclaren content!!

we need to remember this man more!

[outer pier]

also look what i found https://youtu.be/F-HFZb1TX3Q

[digital jungle]

Ah fuck that's true, I forgot McLaren used Fords for this season after Honda left

[paper fossil]

Impeccable driving

[past drift]

whats this got to do with the channel?

[round swift]

🤣 I don't even know

[idle gale]

Tearing up the track. Literally

[upbeat gate]

https://youtu.be/Io9M6tckIwg

[upbeat gate]

Lotus E21 from 2013.

[upbeat gate]

Today is 48 years of 1975 Monaco Grand Prix

37 years of 1986 Monaco Grand Prix
26 years of 1997 Monaco Grand Prix

[slow grail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1itUrFokDhs

[slow grail]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-fall-epic-embed-fail-fail-funny-gif-21341768

[upbeat gate]

Lol

[round swift]

McLaren leading the race makes me very happy, even if it's old times

[past drift]

when they had the most optimal team colour of grey

[round swift]

Funny how 1996 and 1997 were both rainy Monaco Grand Prix’s and Schumacher crashed on the first lap during the 96, and won the race in 97.

[unique pagoda]

nice name lmao

[paper fossil]

Williams not managing to secure consecutive Monaco GP victories smh

Only won it 3 times

1980, 83 and 2003

[round swift]

Schumacher was pretty good at Monaco so no surprise

[paper fossil]

or the fact williams put both their drivers on dry tyres at the start

[round swift]

No

He still won over 50 seconds

[paper fossil]

right

but williams threw away a 1-2 on the grid with such a stupid decision like that

i mean schumacher was 50 seconds ahead of a car that across the season usually did better in qualifying than the race

and was generally poor

[round swift]

Rubens came second I think

[paper fossil]

ik

[round swift]

Later to be teammates

[paper fossil]

that is why i said that

[round swift]

It was meant to be

[paper fossil]

the stewart that season was a poor car

to be expected for a team in its infancy and pre gary anderson

i mean generally the point was about why williams managed to throw away any chance of victory there

that was the reason

[round swift]

Michael had first in the drivers standing after he won

[paper fossil]

not schumacher

[round swift]

And Ferrari were first too

Schumacher did good

[paper fossil]

ok?

yes he did

[round swift]

of course he did

[paper fossil]

i mean his peformance in france was better

australia

[round swift]

Was it raining

[paper fossil]

hmmm

has nothing to do with it

[round swift]

He is the rain master after all

Monaco 1996 was embarrassing though

[paper fossil]

happens

[round swift]

Exactly

Can you name me races where Senna spun during a wet race

I can’t remember which races

[paper fossil]

did crash into the back of brundle in 89 australia

[round swift]

Hahah yes

[paper fossil]

did that too many times in his career tbf

italy 93

god that was awful

seem to remember he spun in 92 spain while trying to lap someone

his 92 overall is incredibly forgetful

[round swift]

Easily his worst season at McLaren

[paper fossil]

fully

1 point ahead of berger only

lot of mistakes by himself

i mean the mclaren is still the 2nd best car that season and he finishes behind schumacher

[round swift]

Schumacher beat him in his first full season of F1 aswell in a Benetton

Unexpected

[paper fossil]

i mean idk how that meant he could demand 16 mil for 93

but mclaren couldn't find anyone else

realistically was not ideal

[round swift]

Didn’t he do some Indy tests during 92?

I wonder if he would’ve went there if he didn’t get the 16 million

[paper fossil]

good

because that financial year was awful for mclaren

and forced john hogan of marlboro to demand more money from other sponsors like shell to pay for the wretched man

[round swift]

I agree with the sentiment and even though it's an unpopular opinion, as a McLaren fan I always felt Senna should've been dropped once the outlandish demands started

Unless he's Bruce McLaren himself, no driver is bigger than McLaren and no driver gets to treat the team that drove him to three titles with such arrogance and impunity

Mika was there, he had already been brought from Lotus, put him into the car and see how he does with Michael and let mister 16 million drive around in America

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/8T3Z82c3oXk?t=1492 An audio recording of Senna confronting Irvine

[meager pewter]

D7de the music after that confrontation goes crazy

[round swift]

There's fragile ego and there was Senna ego

Good on Eddie, basically laughed him off and provoked a three time WDC into embarrassing himself big time

Eddie's views on Senna are intriguing, he greatly respected him as a driver (modeling his helmet after his in the junior categories) but he also (in his own words) greatly disliked him as a person, even before this incident.

[past drift]

that’s not intriguing imo, i feel the same for some drivers

or the opposite, like with the Michael

[paper fossil]

Weirdly enough Nigel Mansell managed to be an ass while driving and being a person

[unique pagoda]

Mansell seems to be a nice person

[oblique dock]

Mansell was a drama queen on some instances

During one race, Patrick Head literally told him to shut the hell up while he was complaining

[round swift]

Nige is a great guy nowadays, but he was definitely one of the more difficult characters during his F1 days

Regardless though, he was fantastic to watch and Britain's national icon during his time

[slow grail]

12.05.02 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgQz9-xmi4c

in other news, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSR0DOMrEFg

it looks terrible but both were fine

[paper fossil]

"As far as Mansell was concerned, he never made a mistake. If he won, it was because he was just better than everybody else and he had carried the car on his back. If he didn’t win, it was because somebody else had got it wrong. It wasn’t a popular approach with the mechanics: I remember once, during the noise of the race, and with my own headphones on, I could still hear Patrick shouting into his radio: ‘For fuck’s sake, Nigel, stop whinging and just drive the fucking car!’" - Dernie

“Jonesy didn’t tell you what to do: he just told you the problem and let you decide how to solve it, which is what the engineer prefers. It’s much worse if you’ve got a driver who thinks he knows how the car works, like Mansell did." - Dernie

“Montoya was a bit like Nigel, a really hard racer, but more likeable because he was less obnoxious out of the car." - Dernie

[round swift]

How do you manage finding these? They are Golden!

[oblique dock]

I tend to watch a lot of clips featuring Japanese broadcasts of F1

[round swift]

Nice! Do you speak or talk Japanese?

Or just watching lol

[oblique dock]

I just watch

I wish I was fluent though

[upbeat gate]

This exceeding from pre-2003 smh

[upbeat gate]

| UNDER INVESTIGATION | Driver 97 exceeding from pre-2003 on Sector 2

[round swift]

lol

[digital jungle]

https://sun7-20.userapi.com/impg/oBrb3MkuaExN2XQFjcFhS1tXzgFRM023DMc-0A/FMzJdRMvWL8.jpg?size=1280x856&quality=95&sign=a11c7f1c75207b0f27a7620e56808a2d&type=album

[slow grail]

13.05.50 - new championship who this

[wary oak]

Lol

[past drift]

you mean new championship? F1 is first used in 1948

[upbeat gate]

Probably

[slow grail]

yes new championship

[hollow cipher]

Depressing story for the Tifosi:

Coming off their championship winning season in 1979, Ferrari and their drivers, Scheckter and Villeneuve who came first and second in the WDC, entered the 1980 season with their old 312 car. As the other teams made advancements with their aero and their Cosworth engines, (which most of the grid ran) Ferrari were pretty much going nowhere with their unreliable Flat 12 and heavy car. The car got more an more uncompetitive over the year and in Canada, the reigning champion didn't even qualify for the race.

The season was the first winless season since 1973 for Ferrari, and made Jody Scheckter retire of the sport at age 30

Ferrari came 10th in the WCC that year, with only 8 points.

[past drift]

don’t know how they managed, but their flat-12 was very unreliable at the season start, when it used to be bulletproof since its introduction in 1970

[round swift]

most of Ferrari's F1 history is depressing for Tifosi other than the 50s and the Schumi era

It's understated just how much Michael stat-padded Ferrari

[past drift]

open a book and look at the 70s?

[hollow cipher]

the 70s werent that good for ferrari

if it werent for the goated drivers they had

a lot of ups and downs

some really good years and also their worst

[past drift]

idk, they won 4 WCCs in that decade, and finished runner up two other years

[paper fossil]

1970’s didn’t start ideally

I mean if we forget Ickx’s 2nd in 70 which really should have been Brabham

But yeah Ferrari have really only had one period of utter dominance in the sport

Mid to late 70’s probably comes 2nd

[round swift]

Isn’t the Ferrari 312T series the most successful F1 car design ever?

It won 27 races, 3 Drivers' Championships and 4 Constructors' Championships

Mid to late 70s seems around right though

[paper fossil]

Yeah but they were close run things

1979 was very open as well

[round swift]

1979 was a reliable year for Ferrari compared to other teams such as Williams

Williams had double the amount of retirements compared to Ferrari

[paper fossil]

Yeah well

There was a good reason we removed dropped points

Though it didn’t matter in the end it could have

[past drift]

it's quite unfair, it's like counting the sales of the different Corollas together because they're called Corolla

[paper fossil]

For sure though Ferrari didn’t have the fastest car across 1979

And barely ever had it on a weekend

[wary oak]

It was the same design though, just various versions. Just search it up.

[round swift]

I thought Ferrari was thought to be the best team in 1979 as it was developing faster than Ligier throughout the season, thought the Lotus 78 was pretty fast in ‘78

[paper fossil]

The Williams was the faster car in the second half of the season

But yeah not the best

79 goes through stages though

Very competitive field for the time

[round swift]

But Ferrari overall was very reliable in the 1979 season which helped

Compared to other teams

[round swift]

what about them?

They were slightly better then than their average shitshow, it was still a paltry return for a team with such an ego and "prestige"

[paper fossil]

There was defo a sense of Ferrari making mistakes

Enzo got way too involved

But given all that they ended the 1970’s way more healthy than how the 60’s had ended

[paper fossil]

Firing everyone close to Lauda after 77 is an example of that

"Judas selling himself to the competition for thirty kilos of salami". - Enzo Ferrari on Lauda's move from Ferrari to Brabham

This was insanity also

Luca leaving after 1975 until he would return after the death of Enzo and the big Ferrari power vaccum was also not ideal

Harvey Postlethwaite probably carried Ferrari to those back to back constructors championships in the 80’s

Plus Arnoux and Tambay being a solid enough pairing

I think a lot of decisions around the 1970’s set them on the path to the wilderness years

For sure

But it was ultimately a successful period given the circumstances

[oblique dock]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3rpCKpgeK0&pp=ygUOTGFycm91c3NlIExDOTA%3D

[analog fjord]

What year?

[cursive blade]

1990

[analog fjord]

thanks

[queen saddle]

Finally found the theme song for BBC Grand Prix's 1988 season review.

https://youtu.be/gFjWsdamcE0

https://youtu.be/0SuqBpBWvrM

[hollow cipher]

im getting sitcom intro vibes

[peak swallow]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/601937472804487208/1099164055563939850/its_not_joever.gif

[hollow cipher]

im a relatively new F1 fan but i can proudly say that i recognized all but one driver at the beginning

Somehow forgot about Cheever

[queen saddle]

Same with me when I first watched it except Nannini was the one I didn’t recognize.

[queen saddle]

And it’ll feel more like a sitcom intro if the drivers’ names are written in cursive over their faces.

[hollow cipher]

his nephew won a race last friday

[oblique dock]

In Indy NXT?!

[hollow cipher]

yeah lol

i was like "oh shit nannini"

with not his nephew sorry

his (first cousin once-removed)

still

[lavish moth]

Ngl, that kinda looks like a shitpost

[lavish moth]

Exactly

[round swift]

Schumi casually celebrating after clowning the field in an utter shitbox, one of the most impressive race performances of all time

[slow grail]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrOC3Z_7RTo

[round swift]

On this day back in 1988, Ayrton dominated Monaco Qualifying and the race until he crashed.

[potent tendon]

Really late, but today marks the birthday of the death of Elio De Angelis. 🕊️

It's a real shame when you read about the story surrounding his death...

[oblique dock]

It's very nice and touching that Alesi made this tribute, considering his helmet design was a homage to Elio's.

RIP Elio De Angelis...

[round swift]

Interestingly enough, the test which took Elio's life was originally supposed to be done by Riccardo Patrese

However, Elio wanted more time with Brabham BT55 as he was having trouble coming to grips with it, so he asked Riccardo if he could take the test instead of him to which Riccardo agreed

[wintry elm]

Half life Alyx gman is a blessing

Fuck you if you disagree

[past drift]

TIL 😦

[languid basin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1104639874641961061/1107968678969999360/340651643_165974006387232_6833606964322287490_n.jpg

[analog fjord]

What ferrari is that

[oblique dock]

Ferrari F310

[oblique dock]

Hmmm… interesting bit of classic F1 material

[round swift]

Lewis sure looked mature for an 18-year old

People must've aged faster in 2003

[idle gale]

The first of the classic Turbocharged monsters

Unfortunately, due to power and reliability issues, the Renault didn't do so well

Like that problem again plagued Renault at the start of the Modern Turbo era...

[past drift]

sadly for them, Renault was never good with Turbo engines

[round swift]

Now it's 2003 https://youtu.be/93QKt44OsIU

[round swift]

Oh man, I'm still bittersweet about that one

It was nice seeing Fisi win in a woeful Jordan, but not at the expense of Kimi and McLaren losing

[oblique dock]

Damn, never knew Arturo Merzario went there

[analog fjord]

james moment

[river cave]

Very strange podium as well, i think it could be one of the very few times not all 3 drivers were on the podium

[wintry elm]

Built different

He had the balls for racing and bitches

[cursive blade]

Bruh lmao aoziwkzklaoa

[chrome basin]

that's why he's the GOAT

https://tenor.com/view/the-goat-black-guy-gif-17915341

the GOAT

[slow grail]

18.05.80 - monaco gp: heroics into ste devote on lap 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urgOyTVSzEM

56

[hollow cipher]

Great race, classic monaco with Ferrari having a shit car and strategy but I'm surprised Gilles finished fifth, a lot of retirements i guess, and he was a great overtaker in Monaco

Sad day for Depailler, he was doing fantastic that race, even sadder it was one of his last ever races as he would pass away in an accident in Germany...

Awful race for Jones' title hopes as he lost the lead of the championship, but he still pulled it off in the second half of the season

[idle gale]

(Name a bigger downgrade)

[oblique dock]

Ferrari in 1979: Ferrari 312T4
Ferrari in 1980: Ferrari 312T5

There’s your downgrade

[round swift]

speaking of downgrades

[round swift]

Ferrari F2004 and F2005

Schumacher watching a reply of Roland’s fatal crash during Imola Qualifying

😔

[upbeat gate]

Sure.

[meager pewter]

https://motorsportmagazine.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/Ayrton-Senna-McLaren-1993-Monaco-GP-Monte-Carlo.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/707/32418588831_a9dd2f6c66_b.jpg

As much as I love the MP4-9

[paper fossil]

Decent cars

It was the MP4-10 that was a dog

[upbeat gate]

How about huge upgrade?

[wary oak]

To be honest, the MP4/9 was a letdown. It was hindered by the unreliability and performance of its exploding Peugeot engine and failed to win any races—the first time McLaren had done so since 1980.

[slow grail]

19.05.96 - the most monaco gp of all time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEs7jS5bsAc

[wary oak]

But yeah the MP4/10 was worst than the MP4/9

[paper fossil]

When it finished with Hakkinen it was practically always on the podium

To call it one of the biggest downgrades is eh

The mp4/10 is when the standards for a shortwhile slipped at McLaren

Much as Mansell likes to make the point it was before then and that is why Senna left

Given where Jordan was able to go with Peugeot engines McLaren should have tried harder to create a working relationship where they would guarantee to invest heavily and take into consideration all aspects of the engine and car

Instead of what Peugeot did at Prost which was just make a powerful engine with no consideration for packaging, reliability etc

[wary oak]

Yeah WHEN it finished lol. Only like 9 times. The engine was like a hand grenade. I remember one of the races the whole engine blew up and went into flames.

https://youtu.be/_bct74R42qk

[paper fossil]

Key thing though the car was competitive

It’s engine was flawed

It wasn’t that much of a downgrade when you are thinking about losing Ayrton Senna for christ sake

Which is why Dennis took so long to announce the 2nd driver because of a clear lack of a talent pool in F1 at the time

Schumacher ruled the roost completely after Senna died until Alonso and Raikkonen emerged really

[paper fossil]

No front wing

Little aerodynamic devices

And ground effect

Best it ever worked

For racing

[digital jungle]

Everything you need is there, p much

[undone cloak]

imo only big downgrade in between this cars was lack of Michael

[round swift]

1995 in general was an utter piss take for McLaren; it kicked off with losing the DC case to Williams in front of the FIA Contract Recognition Board, then Marlboro shoehorned Nigel into a seat while completely disregarding the long-standing animosity between him and Ron, MP4/10 was a bucket which had to go through a revision immediately upon its introduction (the cockpit was too narrow), the fight to sign Michael was lost to Ferrari despite McLaren having had the lead there for most of the negotiating period (to the point where Michael to McLaren was seen as a done deal in the Spring), the results were poor, Nigel was gone after two races (to nobody's surprise) and it all rounded off with Mika's near-fatal crash in Adelaide.

Summarized, '95 was a nadir for McLaren and one of the worst seasons the team has had to this day (when taking everything into account)

[sour oar]

And within 2 years they had completely turned it around and dominated the championship.

[paper fossil]

And within 2 years of getting back to the top they found themselves behind the red machine that became Ferrari

[idle gale]

(Name a bigger upgrade)

[paper fossil]

peformance wise

agreed

personally liked the winfield williams cars

[round swift]

FW21 to FW22 wasn't really that much of an upgrade

FW22 scored 36 points while FW21 scored 35 points, with all of FW21's points being scored by one driver aka RSC

Zanardi was just criminal unfortunately

[upbeat gate]

FW22 to FW23 was just huge upgrade honestly.

[round swift]

It was

They went from 0 wins and 36 points to 4 wins and 80 points, along with bagging 4 pole positions (FW22 had 0) and 9 podiums (FW22 had 3)

[paper fossil]

They had button as a rookie in 00 as well

With less problems for him than ones Zanardi faced

I reckon in reality Williams had a better car than the 99 one

People forget a good reason for Zanardis success in IndyCar was his relationship with Mo Nunn

Who would translate his feedback on the car expertly

And the radical ideas he had would be made workable

In F1 they just stuck him with a race engineer who had no F1 experience with an effort to replicate that

Totally destroyed his confidence during 99 and he gave practically no fight to save his formula one career

[idle gale]

Okay, how the hell did they not noticed the two Arrows puttering around Albert Park until much later, when it was clear that they shouldn't be out on track after their cars have conked out at the start

[digital jungle]

Orange livery on the Orange advertisements around the track worked like a camo

[frozen prism]

FW35 to FW36

from hiring Massa to switching to Mercedes PU and finishing 3rd in the WCC

[past drift]

i like orange, great isp

[round swift]

sometimes i wonder if we'll ever get a crowd phenomenon as self-contained and unique as the asturian army of 2005-2006 in F1 again

the orange army i feel doesn't fit that description, because they've been in soccer for way longer than F1

[paper fossil]

probably not

that was a huge marketing win for renault

[sour moon]

Tifosi? Or does it not count if they’re mostly in one location

[wary oak]

The only reason it won races because of Senna. 4/8 had like two podiums from Mika Hakkinen and Michael Andretti together.

I doubt if senna would be able to win any races with that god awful engine tbh

Maybe one or two hard to say

[paper fossil]

oh so you do agree with me

senna could probably pull a win out of his ass in the mclaren

[wary oak]

The reason the MP4/8 did so good

[paper fossil]

i mean weirdly enough i disagree there

the car at the start of the season was good

best chassis

better electronics

but a down on power engine

[wary oak]

Senna won the last two races of the season I think

[paper fossil]

said enough by williams staff at the time

they 93 car was basically what they had in 91-92 for the first part of the season

they were able to develop better though

and had the advantage of running a year with active + running less wing with the powerful renault

[wary oak]

Yup good video of that is the British Grand Prix, where Prost was able to pass Senna on the long straight

Extra horsepower

https://youtu.be/X4qGYaFw0y4

[paper fossil]

but there is a good reason senna won races like japan

mclaren in the department of crafting a car were still at the top of their game

which is why i always find it amazing senna had the cheek to criticise them after a 92 where he was crashing into anyone and anything

and nearly lost out to berger

1 mil per race was ridiculous

1995 is when it went wrong

cars that had front and rear wings that effectively fell off during braking

steve nichols managed to save that almost immediately when he returned

idk what oatley was doing

[wary oak]

I would say 1994 was when it was the start of the decline

[paper fossil]

they lost out with senna

not much they could do

and there was no one else they could get

peugeot was a risk but not much choice again

[wary oak]

and a terrible engine supplier that hurt them

[paper fossil]

they genuinely made a bad car in 95

for the first time in a while

i'd say it would have to be 80 the last time they had

begining of 81 before barnard and dennis i guess

mansell made it seem as if it was downhill when senna was there

but someone like blundell who moved from williams to mclaren as a reserve driver has a completely different opinion

mclaren was much more ready for what became modern formula one than williams

[wary oak]

Yeah maybe mclaren was preparing for the late 90s early 2000s whereas williams were focused on each year in the 90s

[paper fossil]

No they just stayed like they always were

And it cost them big time

Frank Williams was an awful team boss in reality

I mean literally all his previous attempts prove that

He did some dumb shit

[wary oak]

The new regulations hurt them big time in 1998

[paper fossil]

No shit

[wary oak]

Why are you getting so hostile lol

[paper fossil]

But the reason they lost Newey was because of Williams and Head sacking drivers

And never speaking to Newey

Hence Newey trying to convince Dennis to sign Hill in 98

Never really had the intention of doing so

[slow grail]

51

[wary oak]

Senna stats in Monaco:
-10 races
-6 wins (record) 🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇
-5 pole positions (record)
-1 second place🥈
-1 third place🥉
-8 podiums on 8 races completed
-1 DNF for engine (1985, while leading the race)
-1 DNF for crash (1988, while leading the race).

https://robbreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/gpl-93-mclaren-mp-4-8-senna-monaco-2-1-e1617307547103.jpg?w=1000

[hardy briar]

The king of Monaco

[dapper compass]

wierd question, but does anyone know anything about a Lotus 49 being ran in a blue and gold livery? I

[past drift]

maybe in the south african gp? they tend to have local sponsors

[paper fossil]

quite possibly

think i talked about this with someone recently

possibly dave charlton or john love

[queen saddle]

Weird how the MP4/5B (1990) is drawn here with the front wing of the MP4/5 (1989).

[wary oak]

Did senna have the number 27 in 1989? Looks the the MP4/5B based off his number and sponsor.

Front wing looks like 1988 though

[queen saddle]

Senna had the 27 number in 1990, but the front wing in the poster resembles that of the MP4/5 in 1989.

[wary oak]

Cant be because it has three front panels

On the front wing

[past drift]

he had #1

[round swift]

I don't think the point of the art was to go into some accurate detail, it was simply meant to portray the most successful driver in Monaco (in a vague representation of his most famous cars) and the home kid

[wary oak]

Can you dm me. I have something to ask you.

[digital jungle]

There are prolly more things wrong with the poster other than the wing but like the majority of the people won't notice

Not complaining btw, I have the same view on the poster as Lychee

[wary oak]

Definitely looks cool tho

[queen saddle]

Ah, I didn’t notice the extra panel at first. Seems the front wing is (somewhat) accurate for the MP4/5B but not shaped right. Anyways, it’s only meant to represent the King of Monaco without going for serious accuracy.

[wary oak]

https://youtu.be/1O9ThHfcS_s

0:30

[paper fossil]

Confusion

[paper fossil]

God damnn what an ugly car

1984 had to be the worse

[past drift]

the McLaren was probably the prettiest out there

[meager pewter]

https://cdn-1.latimages.com/images/mgl/WWM81/s4_1/84Monaco_Hesnault_6.jpg

Factually not the best tho

https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/58ca467629687f05a707f2d3/1490453982973-3398HU7NDX2ORID1962Z/dl2_britgp84.jpg

[past drift]

the airbox doesn’t really work for me

[meager pewter]

Or lack thereof

[past drift]

or the rollhoop ye

[meager pewter]

Good point, if all of the cars had their paint stripped I wonder what would do the best

https://i.redd.it/jo005btfqkb21.jpg

The GOAT

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/tWnbdIc2JLo

[meager pewter]

https://cdn-1.latimages.com/images/mgl/zpxy6/s4/open-uri20120928-20188-hzox8z.jpg

[oblique dock]

RE50

[round swift]

what I don't like about those cars from an aesthetic point of view is how squished they look

[meager pewter]

It's okay, shape is nice and round

But 1984 was the worst year after ground effects coz they suddenly got fat

[oblique dock]

Meanwhile the MP4/2 was used for 1985 and 1986

it looks less chunky without the 1984 spec rear wing

[hybrid sundial]

I love the old Marlboro cars

[meager pewter]

https://live.staticflickr.com/75/31234232130_541415ded7_b.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvIntv3W8AADOtj?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

1985 had this tho

[oblique dock]

The FW10 is cool

[meager pewter]

https://motori.ilmessaggero.it/photos/HIGH/32/69/7093269_04164453_2015_patrick_tambay_4.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/7196/6941178073_762f895fb5_b.jpg

https://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/car/4812/Alfa-Romeo-182-F1-138013.jpg

https://motorsportmagazine.b-cdn.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/De-Angelis-Austria-82-800x450.jpg

It just wasn't 1982 in terms of looks tho

the 85 brabham is close, but

[oblique dock]

I didn’t really like the look of the 1985 Brabham

I liked the look of the 1987 car more

[meager pewter]

I'd say it's kay but to me feels generic by that point, but that might be due to livery

[wary oak]

Yeah definitely looks cool. Reminds me of the mp4/4

[past drift]

they tended to be very packed at the rear

[meager pewter]

It took until 1986 for rules to mandate feet meet at or behind the centreline of the front axle

[paper fossil]

is this a gordon murray burner account?

[analog fjord]

Tbf i acc like them

[analog fjord]

I prefer the bt55

Tragic history

Cool car

Rip elio

[analog fjord]

Hard

[past drift]

isn’t it the first brabham

[analog fjord]

Thats a ligier

[past drift]

you mean a Matra?

[analog fjord]

No a ligier

Oh damn actually you may be right

Looked it up further

Oops turns out it is a brabham

My bad

[meager pewter]

fire Arrows

[past drift]

no problem 🙂 Ligier in F1 started in 76 and they’re basically Matra after Matra stopped sportscars racing

the dude raced briefly in f1, but he used private entered coopers iirc

[round swift]

the not Arrows

Murray kept calling them Arrows regardless

[wary oak]

No my other account got shut down by discord

[paper fossil]

Yeah well they built all their cars for a while

Which is why it went downhill fast when they eventually left

[upbeat gate]

And Alain Prost takeover the team and rebranded to Prost in 1997 until 2001 right?

[past drift]

yes

[past drift]

it went downhill fast when their lead designer Gérard Ducarouge left

[analog fjord]

Best brabham fr

[oblique dock]

It’s a shame De Angelis suffered a rear wing failure and his accident in the BT55

To think he was still alive while he was stuck in the cockpit while being overturned. If only proper assistance was at his aid sooner….

[upbeat gate]

Tiago Monteiro on a Renault, 2002.

[digital jungle]

Yeah, Footwork name wasn't popular in the F1 vernacular

[analog fjord]

yeah, hurts to think about

🫡 elio

[upbeat gate]

Footwork is a Japanese express company. So it could be make sense it is not so common from outside Japan.

[past drift]

Footwork Porsche ❤️

first engine bad, let’s do another engine.
in the end it costs too much, put it in the trash.

a few years later: yo we need a super cool engine for our new carrera gt, shame it’s gonna take a while to engineer it
the lads: well actually….

[upbeat gate]

Let's change to Cosworth when Porsche makes us disappointing in early 1991.

[past drift]

it’s not a great choice, but you know what you get

[digital jungle]

Didn't Footwork have a fucked up way of doing a Porsche V12?

I seem to remember that they just took two V6 engines, smashed them together and put them in their cars

[past drift]

yes

[digital jungle]

Lmao

That doesn't actually look that bad

But the idea itself is funny

[past drift]

it’s as bad of an idea as the H-16 of BRM

well, not of an idea but rather of a result

[meager pewter]

They built the Porsche V12 from two of the TAG V6's but the issue was the TAG was already outdated, heavy and in 1986 was suffering harmonics issues due to different and slightly heavier pistons

Should've used the Neotech The same concept of a centre drive but like cool and tested in a 962

[oblique dock]

Wasn’t the Neotech tested in a Porsche 962 chassis once?

Oh

Nvm

[meager pewter]

YEah

[digital jungle]

Ah right they used the V6 engines that Prost and Lauda won their titles with

[past drift]

yep

slightly altered so that it does 3.5L in total

[river cave]

Cramming 1500bhp out of a tiny I4 engine is just incredible

[wary oak]

It’s fantastic!

[chrome basin]

jesus christ, in that tiny little engine?

what the fuck

i am horrified by engineering

[past drift]

it would rev 32,000 times then die

[paper fossil]

Well at least it wasn’t like a sewing machine engine

[river cave]

Yep, they would have one gearbox and engine specifically for qualifying in the Brabham that could go up to 1500bhp with like 4-5 Bar of boost through the turbo, and it would last probably about two laps before they would have to chuck it because it would already be at the point of failure

the Turbo era was completely nuts

the engine alone wasn't all that powerfull, maybe 350-400bhp

[chrome basin]

still pretty good though if it's not modified

at least for a miata

[river cave]

that turbo crammed more horsepower into it that should be physically possible, even in race trim it was still pumping out over 900bhp

[paper fossil]

Don’t forget the fuel being used at the time

[oblique dock]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9t4yfHfTfDs&pp=ygUFYjE4NiA%3D

The last car to ever win a race with a 4 cylinder engine

(And also the last BMW powered car to win a race until 2001)

[river cave]

pretty good for an I4; the Evo X was pushing 290 with a turbocharged I4 and that's from like 2009

you can always trust BMW to build a proper racing engine

[river cave]

Berger funnily enough won his first and last race with Benetton

[paper fossil]

I’m always annoyed he got up to Benetton

Because his debut season wasn’t that great

[oblique dock]

Yeah

[river cave]

which i find a little funny given how a lot of people rate Alesi above him, yet in all his time at Benetton, it was Berger who won

[paper fossil]

And Boutsen had him

[paper fossil]

It has its up and downs

[oblique dock]

But didn’t Berger debut with ATS and not Arrows?

[paper fossil]

Well I meant after

[river cave]

ATS then Arrows

[paper fossil]

Debut season meh season after an improvement but the move from a performance perspective isn’t fully sound

Though I know there is context

[oblique dock]

I know

[paper fossil]

And he got better later on

Berger was alright tbf

But probably outstayed his career

Idk what Benetton were doing employing Berger and Alesi in 1996

[river cave]

I don't think he ever outpaced Senna

i could be completely wrong

[paper fossil]

Pissed off Ross Brawn

[oblique dock]

He had more total career fastest laps than him though

[paper fossil]

So he left eventually

[paper fossil]

Not many did

[river cave]

Yeah i think over one lap the two could be closer

[paper fossil]

But he was probably better in 1992

[river cave]

but in race pace, even with Senna not being at the same level as someone like Prost, i don't believe Berger ever actually beat him

Suzuka '91 is the exception, but that was because Senna let him past to honour a promise to him

[paper fossil]

I see

More to being just faster

That is why Senna barely beat him in 1992

But Berger soon after got comfortable and clearly declined

[oblique dock]

At least Berger won the last round of the 1992 season

[paper fossil]

I mean his 1993 Ferrari contract was daylight robbery

But I would take that if offered

[river cave]

He was much closer to him in '92 but I will say the '92 McLaren also wasn't the best even by McLaren's standards

[paper fossil]

Car was ok

[river cave]

I mean neither of them beat ze young German in the Benetton

[paper fossil]

Didn’t have the electronics

That was the main thing

Because if you move to 93 they have better electronics than Williams at the start

And chassis

But Williams have the Renault

Have all the data to run active correctly

[river cave]

It was still okay, the 7 finally put in a semi-automatic gearbox which probably didn't help with reliability

but it was still pretty much the same as the 6 with a semi-auto gearbox

[river cave]

I've heard that a lot and agree the MP4/8 technilogically was the superior car and it's my favourite of that era of McLaren's

[paper fossil]

It was the fact Senna was paid 16 mil

That killed development

[river cave]

the issue was as you said the engine, it was at first an underpowered customer Ford V8 up against a works Renault V10

[paper fossil]

And only getting Ford engine parity late on

[river cave]

They were literally paying him a few days before each race on a one race deal for the entire season

[paper fossil]

And the other two things I’ve mentioned

Williams were able to run with more wing

Because of the engine

And had a year of data to work with

[river cave]

Along with that, you have at that time a 3x World Champion in one car, and the test driver who helped iron out the active suspension system in the other

[paper fossil]

I’m still of the belief the 94 McLaren was also solid but had unreliability

Whenever it did finish it was on the podium basically

The first awful car they produced was 95

Which is why Steve Nichols came back and fixed everything

[river cave]

I was about to say chassis wise the 9 was still perfectly fine and capable, maybe not to the same level as the Benetton and Williams, but McLaren had to content with the Peugeot engine

the '95 car was a piece of hot garbage, terrible car with a terrible engine

and it did nearly kill Hakkinen

[paper fossil]

Well the front and rear wing effectively fell off under braking

Aero centre of pressure things

[river cave]

and it also had that really weird airbox wing

[paper fossil]

Idk how Oatley crafted that car

[river cave]

that made no sense

[paper fossil]

Because he led the development of the 5 in 89

Among other things

And yet needed Nichols to return to fix the mess

[river cave]

i think McLaren got lost along the way

somewhere in their development they screwed up and needed Nichols with his experience to come back

[paper fossil]

It was of the opinion that McLaren had become the Ferrari Nichols saw during his time there

[river cave]

and then of course later on they nabbed Newey out of Williams' stupid mistake

[paper fossil]

Williams stupid mistake of not getting ready to become a modern day Formula One team

[river cave]

Yeah I can see the parallels, the unreliability, the team with low morale and not having a clear sense of direction

[paper fossil]

That was the difference between Frank and Ron

And it is an opinion shared by people who left Williams for McLaren

Lowe

Blundell

Etc

[river cave]

Yeah especially come the BMW days

Frank really cost them the chance to keep up with Ferrari when it was there for the taking

[paper fossil]

I think if Frank had started in the 90s he would have been finished

It was Head being there at the start that got them on top

And comfortable

[river cave]

And he also started in an era when privateers could still be successful

[paper fossil]

Well as one he wasn’t tbf

His entries kept dying

It was when they did finally start making their own chassis they got a break

[river cave]

albiet not nearly as well as they had been during Stewart's era with FISA-FOCA going on but first 4 titles of the '80's were all private teams

[paper fossil]

Well I think privateers by the late 70s were on their way out

[river cave]

I mean, I want to call McLaren a private team at that time but i also don't

nowadays i really wouldn't call them one, a semi-constructor is the best i can come up with

[paper fossil]

The F1 privateer for me is dead

[river cave]

but by the late '70s with Lotus losing the edge in ground effect and the expensive turbos coming in they were finished

[paper fossil]

Everyone designs their chassis

Or has input

[river cave]

by the time the NA engines were back the only private team left near the top was Williams

[paper fossil]

Not necessarily manufacturing

[river cave]

everyone else was either a backmarker or gone

[paper fossil]

Haas gets Dallara to do that

Still

But they do design it with help from Ferrari

[river cave]

Even then the number of teams who buy major components off the big 3 doesn't really make them private

[paper fossil]

Well the F1 privateer for me doesn’t exist

It started with concorde

Legally it died with that

Realistically died after the chassis sharing just over a decade ago

[river cave]

Yeah and there's no point to being a privateer nowadays anyway

we saw it with the three backmarkers at the start of the 2010's

[paper fossil]

I mean I don’t think you can anyway

[river cave]

you just can't do it anymore

[paper fossil]

You have to make your own car

[past drift]

nah, you need works deals since like 89

[paper fossil]

Tbf it was successful a few times

But in the 60s

Only

[river cave]

The days of Brabham working all night in a garage building his own car and then selling said car to other privateers are long long gone

[paper fossil]

Rob Walker was realistically the best privateer to ever enter

That or Matra

[past drift]

yep

matra was not a privateer

they did engines

[paper fossil]

That was the entry

[past drift]

tyrrell you mean?

[paper fossil]

Ik it was Tyrrell

But it was named Matra International

[river cave]

I was going to say yeah, because Stewart's first title wasn't with Tyyrell technically, it was Matra

hence it being the only French-based manufacurer to actually win anything in F1

[past drift]

oh ye, still they were not a privateer then, they had lots of peeps from Matra working

[river cave]

the only non-British or Italian manufacturer to do so actually

[paper fossil]

Well Matra International was considered a privateer

And had a Matra chassis

And won a title

That is why I have it there

Rob Walker stayed longer and won a number of grand prix

Take your pick

[river cave]

Rob Walker is the qintisenssial privateer

[paper fossil]

Yeah probably

[river cave]

just bought the cars and managed to win

[paper fossil]

But the point was it wasn’t a long period

Nor did it yield that much success

[river cave]

no his races were won in the late 50's and then after that

[paper fossil]

The move was always going to be becoming a constructor

[river cave]

not as much success and then slowly it became harder and harder

[paper fossil]

For any entry

[river cave]

You'll never be as competative as the guys building the car

[paper fossil]

Frank Williams Cars was probably at the bottom of that pile for privateers

Never did that well

[river cave]

Not until Wolff got his hands on it

[paper fossil]

Well by then they were making their own cars weren’t they

[river cave]

yeah pretty sure

[paper fossil]

Just about getting to that stage

I mean it would have been gone without Wolf anyway

Much as there is always that narrative that he stole credit once it did win with Scheckter

Having Scheckter does help though

Honestly with a longer career and the right choices an easy candidate for multiple world champion

He knew how to like a lot of the greats have mechanical sympathy and use his raw pace correctly

[analog fjord]

🫡roland

Cool car though

[paper fossil]

How it should be

[idle gale]

Ayrton's visit to Jim's old school

[slow grail]

02.06.96 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xctbnBWAij8

[round swift]

Domination

If anyone had any doubts about Michael's rain credentials, that race dashed them all

[grim rover]

the f2004 was something else

[severe zealot]

Imagine if he dind't dnf

[paper fossil]

God if only the Indy500 wasn’t part of the calendar for the first 10 years

Then Vettel wouldn’t have the outright consecutive win total

[round swift]

Gilles Villeneuve (Netherlands 1978)

[spiral plume]

imagine being tio pepe and watching this

[paper fossil]

Left to right: Bruce McLaren, Stirling Moss, Tony Brooks, Graham Hill, Jo Bonnier, Wolfgang von Tripps

And some future world champion in the middle that I can’t remember the name of

[wary oak]

The World Champion from 1996 maybe… 🤔

[past drift]

is it uhhhhhh Jacques Villeneuve?

[wary oak]

I believe it was the other Williams driver, Alain Prost??

[hardy briar]

2002 was even more impressive

This is the F2002’s track record, and shumi’s 2 missing results were 1st and 3rd, respectively

[round swift]

is that Stewart during the german gp in 1968?

[digital jungle]

Yeah, that race wasn't very exciting from what I've heard

[steady trellis]

Yes

[round swift]

damn thats a nice of view
also one of the bravest drives of all time imo

[grim rover]

the worst chicane ever

[round swift]

that chicane remains one of the most awful ideas anyone ever had in F1

[digital jungle]

Yes, it's undisputedly shit, even if the ppl in charge had a noble cause

[terse spire]

What happened to Zolder?

[paper fossil]

Still exists

[digital jungle]

Zolder had a good run while it lasted, it replaced Spa for a lengthy period

[river cave]

Still around, just too small for F1

[river cave]

Yes, dominated with a broken wrist, and had to be ordered by Ken Tyrrell to drive the car

[oblique dock]

It was last used in 1984, where Michele Alboreto won that year’s race

[past drift]

tbf.... Zandvoort is back..

[river cave]

Zandvoort is very different than the 80's circuit

[past drift]

yes, but that's not relevant

it's narrow af, as it was before.

[wary oak]

True some old circuits were narrow, especially newer circuits nowadays

[terse spire]

hopefully it gets put back on the calendar

Bring back an old circuit

[oblique dock]

Yeah… that’s not gonna work

Modern day F1 and Zolder wouldn’t mix

[paper fossil]

Do it up and lose all the soul yeah that sounds like a modern thought

Spa is the home of the Belgian GP should stay there

[acoustic void]

Nothing it hosts a fair amount of events tbf

Just f1 no longer races there

[round swift]

yea, i think ive also heard somewhere that its the only time Ken Tyrrell forced a driver to race against their will

[river cave]

Yep, Stewart was adament about not racing, so Tyrrell had to demand he get in the car and race

[round swift]

yea, i think it was also around that time where Stewart nicknamed the track "The green hell" after he won the race

[oblique dock]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/660180424546451482/1115875768392761354/image0.jpg

[river cave]

Who posted a teapot

[wary oak]

Anybody know the driver?

[oblique dock]

Emanuele Pirro

He’s done a lot of testing with Mclaren

[past drift]

is that like a 4B?

[oblique dock]

Yeah

The design of the engine cover gives it away

[wary oak]

Yes

[river cave]

Never realised up until now, the '84 Portuguese Grand Prix where Lauda won his last title had two future World Champions on the podium with him

[river cave]

so I'm guessing the 4B is just a MP4/4 with a NA engine in the back?

[oblique dock]

Yup

A V10

[paper fossil]

I mean the B was still a different car

Given Oatley was put in charge of the direction on that

[oblique dock]

Meanwhile there was the normal MP4/4 but with the 3.5L V10 in the back

https://youtu.be/iBz9ugqnNE4

[willow gorge]

https://youtu.be/LimksV4_0VI i love this video, the sense of speex

[oblique dock]

You should look at some of the quali laps at Magny Cours from 1991

[outer pier]

Decided to make an edit of Schumacher and Senna..

[round swift]

the mobile chicane

[oblique dock]

The car that wasted Sospiri’s talents

[idle gale]

Ambitious but rubbish

No joke. These engines had the worst time clocked in the old Pre-Qualifying sessions (And arguably throughout F1 history)

Subaru Coloni - 5:15.010 (1990 US GP)

Life L190 - 7:16.212 (1990 San Marino GP)

[oblique dock]

I’d love to see both of those cars, the Andrea Moda, the Mastercard Lola, and many more slow as heck F1 cars race each other

[paper fossil]

Half of them would be gone within the first 10 or so laps

[oblique dock]

In that case, make it a 3-5 lap sprint

[paper fossil]

That’s probably for the best

Was a good podcast on this by the race

Love me Tarquni being the best at PQ

[upbeat gate]

"For safety reasons, we will check these broken and utterly rubbish engine first."

[paper fossil]

Oscar Larrauri I think holds the record for the most failed attempts to qualify

[oblique dock]

“Eh, but who cares anyway. They’ll just give way after 5 seconds.”

[outer pier]

jesus.

that makes me look godly in monaco

[round swift]

fires him mid-season two years later because Eddie

[upbeat gate]

"And we are go, go, go!!!! Good start for Sospiri but Gary Brabham struggles to even start due to chuncky W12 engine!"

"That Forti of Pedro Diniz knows to overtake a slower Andrea Moda car...."

"IT'S ROSSET!!!! Oh dear, what does he doing on the tarmac..... Let's look at the reply, oh dear....... He just spun out, and accidentally throttle to the tarmac, but he's not out of the race yet! Martin, please tell me he don't have any championship material."

"You are right, Murray."

[crisp dagger]

What is the cutoff point of this channel, what year does f1 become ‘classic’

[upbeat gate]

1950-2003

wait for next year

as 2004 will be part of them.

[past drift]

whatever is at least 20 years old, basically

[meager pewter]

https://youtu.be/uQfTbc5vwoc

[wooden cove]

Not an f1 classic but
Remembering Pierre Levegh and others after 68 years.
One of the darkest days in history of motorsport.

[idle gale]

The sound of that Subaru engine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QClKo8jrQc0

[oblique dock]

Great find

[wary oak]

Question, which of the ones I’m about to list do you guys believe is the worst F1 team ever, like to not even DNPQ?

Andrea Moda, Mastercard Lola, LIFE, Scuderia Coloni, EuroBrun, or Tecno?

[round swift]

Life and Coloni are a whole different category of a complete failure

It takes talent to be a whole minute down on the rest of the grid 💀

[idle gale]

The Michael's debut

[grim rover]

idk why but i remember the sides being divided with red/blue with the MasterCard logo on the center and the nose being orange for some reason

am i the only one with this mandela effect?

[river cave]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il2nLFbKaME

[meager pewter]

that sounds brutal

[round swift]

Man was playing on 5% AI that day

[wary oak]

Lol

[digital jungle]

Well, most of that year Williams was like a 100% AI, so you gotta balance that somehow

[round swift]

Michael doesn't get enough credit for 1996, that car was an utter dog and he was grabbing wins and podiums, pretty much the only driver to somewhat compete with the Williams

[paper fossil]

utterly anihilated irvine

on average 0.753% faster in races

only 3 other pairings with a bigger advantage that year

had him by nearly 1% in qualifying

i mean for sure the 96 benetton car was better but they were employing alesi and berger in 1996 fgs

that made ross brawn quite frustrated

[oblique dock]

I feel like 1996 is one of Benetton’s more forgotten years. That and 1987

[paper fossil]

88

where boutsen is 3rd

or 4th actually

[oblique dock]

Nah. 87 had them use the GBA V6 and the B187 wasn’t anything special

Besides, it was the only time Benetton used V6’s

But hey, at least the B187 was a podium scorer

[paper fossil]

88 is defo forgettable i'm not going to lie

[oblique dock]

Fair enough

[paper fossil]

nanninis victory in japan the next year makes it much more memorable

and then piquet has a go with it for a few years

[oblique dock]

Remember when Pirro was a driver?

[paper fossil]

ye

herbert for like the first few rounds iirc

while on incredible quantities of painkillers

[oblique dock]

cause of that massive F3000 accident

Wait, that was 1988

[paper fossil]

it was

nannini was a decent enough driver tbf

had some pace but for sure was a guy who had no clue about car dynamics

[oblique dock]

He was doing well up until his helicopter accident in 1990

[paper fossil]

which didn't set him up well if he was going to end up at ferrari

would be a jean alesi similar thing again

who literally thought the 1992 ferrari was a great car

meanwhile you have capelli who does understand a car saying it was horrendous

guess who they listened to smh

though idk why ferrari signed capelli anyway because Gugelmin had him through 1991

i mean that kind of situation has happened before tbf

ronnie peterson thought the 72 march was sound despite lauda saying it was a complete mess

and they listened to peterson of course

[oblique dock]

Alesi

[paper fossil]

sadly

i have a feeling some ferrari mechancis and senior staff were happy to see the back of alesi and berger

only downside being you get irvine who most likely was the one who played on his gameboy during briefings

though that isn't fully clear

[meager pewter]

I saw this whole 21 part docu on the GBA's development, it was fun but also Cosworth reallymugged emselves trying to make the debut of that engine when power figures were at their highest

[paper fossil]

i think it only got awful for them during 1999 when irvine was demanding things as if he was closer to michael now

when he clearly wasn't

[oblique dock]

Wasn’t it called Equinox?

[meager pewter]

Maybe?

[paper fossil]

he had kept quiet publically before then

[meager pewter]

Had a bit of a 1984 intro lookin' thang

[oblique dock]

https://youtu.be/1LkxGx5WJzA

[meager pewter]

Yes

But different source with a bit higher quality

[idle gale]

Graham and Jim

[past drift]

https://media.formula1.com/content/dam/fom-website/manual/races/2015/Canada/95cdn29.jpg.img.640.medium.jpg/1433232669511.jpg

[north sand]

Congrats @wary oak, you're now on lap 5

[wary oak]

What Grand Prix?