Let’s stop going in circles
#classic-motorsport
paper fossil
round swift
A bad reflection on how bad the F1 car was. Damon was more consistence and regularly getting in the points in a few good races.
round swift
Damon had like 9 points
round swift
Sorry he had 7
paper fossil
He should have scored in Austria
But was pretty poor there that weekend given how good the Bridgestones were
round swift
He didn't even start in Australia
paper fossil
You were talking about Damon scoring points
round swift
and still scored more points
paper fossil
I was talking about his opportunities to get them
One in Britain when Nakano retired to give him one
A very good drive in a weird weekend in Hungary
And Austria where he should have got points but didn’t
round swift
And in Australia where half the grid retired
paper fossil
So once again not on pure pace
round swift
Drivers Skill pays a part in it
round swift
Not true
German grand prix for example
the top 5 retired I believe
damon did not finish in the points
round swift
It's a good example
paper fossil
Look fair to Damon he maximised Hungary
round swift
Don't make up excuses bro
paper fossil
I would expect it
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Laughable
paper fossil
But he didn’t outperform the car
It was there because the car’s weaknesses were less exposed
paper fossil
And they had an ace up their sleeve with the Bridgestones
The whole podcast on the race makes out that point
I trust the likes of Matt Beer
Glenn Freeman
Mark Hughes
Etc
paper fossil
It's a good example
It isn’t if a good deal of those retirements are car failures
Or something out of the hands of the driver
Hockenheim back then was a literal car breaker
round swift
It isn’t if a good deal of those retirements are car failures
Any damn circuit can be a good example
Lol
paper fossil
For what lol
round swift
Hockenheim back then was a literal car breaker
Because of??
round swift
For what lol
Monaco can be for downforce, Monza for High Top Speeds
paper fossil
Various things
round swift
Any circuit has kerbs
paper fossil
Right
round swift
That's terrible
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It was there because the car’s weaknesses were less exposed
It was a basic chassis design!
paper fossil
He was just one of the lucky okes
round swift
He was just one of the lucky okes
Totally not
paper fossil
On a track demanding very little
round swift
Scroll up if you still believe that
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The f1 car was very balanced but struggled because it didnt have the downforce
Did you see the website I sent??
paper fossil
YES
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Literally no point on discussing hat here
paper fossil
AND IT DIDNT MATTER ON A TRACK LIKE HUNGARY FGS
as much as other places
Fuck me man
Why do you think he did little elsewhere
He got a great quali in Austria and Europe
For the rest of the season
Add to that he was the only Bridgestone runner who was competent for the weekend with Panis being out
Trulli being a rookie
round swift
Why do you think he did little elsewhere
Because he retired from everyother race
It was a shit box
paper fossil
And it wasn’t competitive
round swift
They almost failed to qualify in Australia
paper fossil
But it was in Hungary
round swift
And it wasn’t competitive
Exactly
paper fossil
Because most of its weaknesses didn’t matter
round swift
He still got a podium and points with it
Now you understand
IT was a piece of junk
paper fossil
Sure
round swift
and he got points in it
paper fossil
Never said it wasn’t
round swift
Glad you got that
paper fossil
However it was a good car in Hungary
It worked well on the track
It is the same thing for Prost that season
Generally Jordan and Sauber were better cars but Prost were able to perform on certain tracks with the Bridgestones
round swift
It is the same thing for Prost that season
You can't use Prost as an example
It was better
paper fossil
The point was
paper fossil
The performance was a result of a factor like Bridgestones
That helped Damon in Hungary
You have to accept that
round swift
No, its that the other tyres weren't lasting as long
paper fossil
And Bridgestones were
round swift
Which is why Damon past Michael in the corners
round swift
Not on the straight
paper fossil
He passed him because Michael had fuck all tyre
round swift
Don't ask stupid questions then
round swift
Didn’t ask a question
You literally asked me why Damon was performing in Hungary and told you straight up.
Hill drove to perfection
paper fossil
All you are saying here is that you disagree the Bridgestones had an advantage in Hungary
The Arrows was well suited to Hungary
And other various things concluded by the likes of Hughes and other journalists
I never said Hills performance in Hungary was shit
round swift
The Arrows was well suited to Hungary
No, the competition had bad tyres and that allowed Damon to past Michael
paper fossil
I said it was great but it has its own context
round swift
The a18 was a piece of junk car
round swift
Wiggy why are you like this now
paper fossil
Brother
I have sent the Hill quote already
It was nicely balanced and worked well in Hungary
round swift
I've sent numerous quotes aswell
paper fossil
A track that demanded little of aerodynamic performance or engine
paper fossil
No shit but it counted little in Hungary
paper fossil
Otherwise he wouldn’t have been there fgs
round swift
Otherwise he wouldn’t have been there fgs
Like in Australia?
paper fossil
He would have been running at the back in Aus most likely
paper fossil
Until retirements allowed him to climb up
paper fossil
Yeah
round swift
Why even bring him up
paper fossil
Did I suggest otherwise
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Lol
paper fossil
Solution is that you listen to me and the website I send you
Ah nice so you just can’t be arsed listening to journos analysis of the race
Good to know
round swift
Ah nice so you just can’t be arsed listening to journos analysis of the race
Coming from someone who thinks Villeneuve was better than Damon
paper fossil
Yes
round swift
Those website trashed on Villeneuve
paper fossil
Because he was
round swift
and you don't care
paper fossil
That is my opinion
paper fossil
Nice to know
I disagree with them
I think Villeneuve peforms well given the issues that faced williams right through 97
96 was a much easier year for the team
That is a fact
I think he performs the best he can with a poor Williams car in 98
He’s pretty good from 99-01
round swift
96 was a much easier year for the team
ah yes the year where damon beat rookie Villeneuve.
paper fossil
His level drops thereafter
round swift
FW17, FW18, and FW19 were all brilliant
paper fossil
ah yes the year where damon beat rookie Villeneuve.
At the last race when Villeneuve had literally raced none of the the tracks prior to the season
And Hill was comfortable with the team and car
round swift
They all earned Autosport Racing Car Of The Year
round swift
Stop being oblivious to obvious shit
Can't even be to obvious with you because you act like it was Villeneuves fault? Hell no.
paper fossil
You would expect the guy who had been Williams main threat since Senna died to beat the rookie
paper fossil
But it was closer than was to be expected
paper fossil
Can't even be to obvious with you because you act like it was Villeneuves fault?...
Was what Villeneuves fault
round swift
You asked for his fault??
paper fossil
You just dropped San Marino 96 into the convo for some reason
round swift
are you stupid?
round swift
I showed you that it was his fault
paper fossil
Damon made an error in both Spain and Italy himself it happens
paper fossil
I didn’t tbf
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You asked a question
paper fossil
I asked what you meant by that
round swift
and i agve you an answer
paper fossil
But idk why you dropped something about Villeneuve being at fault
round swift
You replied to me and asked for his fault
paper fossil
I was just talking about 1996 in general
round swift
Stop denying it haha
paper fossil
Can't even be to obvious with you because you act like it was Villeneuves fault?...
Why did you add “act like it was Villeneuve’s fault”
round swift
Why did you add “act like it was Villeneuve’s fault”
"Villeneuve had literally raced none of the the tracks"
He did though
paper fossil
That is a fact
round swift
No
paper fossil
He had raced nearly none of the track prior to the season
Practically new to him
Most of his career had been in the US
paper fossil
Ah nice
Two places
Out of
It was barely anything
Most of it was still new to him
round swift
Sure
paper fossil
Hill you would obviously expect to be on top of him
round swift
Because he was a better driver? yes obviously
paper fossil
No because he had 4 years underneath him
And he was familiar with the car and team
He had raced all the circuits bar 1 being Melbourne
But as the season progressed Villeneuve got better
And for me during 1997 giving the trials the team went through he did a great job to secure the title
round swift
And he was familiar with the car and team
Villeneuve did too, he was leading the first race of the season over Hill
paper fossil
I mean no
paper fossil
Despite being a rookie
round swift
Reminds me of Lewis Hamilton's rookie season
north sandBOT
Congrats @round swift, you're now on lap 30
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Thank you
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Both were good in their rookie season thought
paper fossil
When he was things like Turkey
And then China
But for a rookie his racecraft is spot on for most of the season
round swift
Oh for sure
paper fossil
But his aggressive driving would destroy the front tires
And McLaren faced a lot of issues with certain compounds
And he pushed it in Turkey and had a puncture
Which is why the next year in Turkey they put him on 3 to avoid the same issue
Also the paddle on the back of the steering wheel to reduce tyre wear
Is also him doing the worst thing possible trying to fight Fernando in Brazil
knotty mantle
Man if he was alive and retired but the teams let him drove cars against retired champions likes demon hill, ratzenburger, Alain prost yknow the world would've been different...
idle gale
And these are the results of large water spray blocking your visions
"ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME?!!!"
chrome basin
sex
oblique dock
Martin Brundle, 1984
dusk canopy
!rank
north sandBOT
^^^^^^
role is a required argument that is missing.```
queen saddle
Martin Brundle, 1984
He looks like he's gonna steal a time-travelling DeLorean to go back to 1955.
idle gale
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines"
"Turbochargers are for people who can't build engines"
round swift
Did anybody listen to Alains Prost latest podcast with F1?? I heard him say that the McLaren MP4/8 had a better chassis, suspension and electronics than the FW15C.
oblique dock
Now if Mclaren had the same Ford V8 Benetton was using, then their 1993 season would've been a slight bit different.
Also, didn't Prost say he struggled with the active suspension at one point?
round swift
On the post-race lap, Ayrton Senna and Mika Häkkinen waved to the crowds after finishing first and third in the 1993 Japanese Grand Prix.
Notice the huge difference in rear wing downforce of Senna's compared to Mika.
idle gale
Ahh, the sounds of the DFV V8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5if5g9tI-M
When a remember that Red Bull-Ford was kind of a thing back in the 90s when their branded/sponsored Sauber
Also, its funny and poetic that Red Bull Racing, which will be using Ford engines (?) at the start of 2026, started out in life as Stewart Grand Prix, which was the then Ford works team
paper fossil
Did anybody listen to Alains Prost latest podcast with F1?? I heard him say that...
He’s not wrong
Williams got caught out by McLaren early season and then developed
If McLaren had started with some engine parity or had another works deal they could have won more races
It also as I already did say didn’t help that they had to pay 16 mil to Senna for the year
Like Martin Whitmarsh said in the 24 years he was at McLaren, the only one they failed to turn profit in was 92-93 where they lost 1.5 million due to Senna's salary
Williams had data from 1992 to set up the car that McLaren didn’t as well
Had the Renault engine which was so much better than the customer Ford so they could utilise the package to run more wing
If McLaren had gone for Mika and Andretti for 93 it would have covered about under 4 mil leaving 5 mil for development that ended up being used for Senna in the first 5 races
But they wouldn’t have had Senna
General thing is the McLaren fundamentally was built well
paper fossil
If McLaren had gone for Mika and Andretti for 93 it would have covered about und...
Appreciate John Hogan of Marlboro going out of his way to pull money out of sponsors like Shell to fund it
round swift
Now if Mclaren had the same Ford V8 Benetton was using, then their 1993 season w...
I believe I heard him say in the podcast that he disliked the active suspension at first because it was different from his driving style or something but then got use to it later on in the season.
oblique dock
Ah.
paper fossil
The active car had to be chucked through corners
Something Mansell was prepared to do
Prost was much smoother which is why he had it over Mansell in 1990 in a conventional car
"The active suspension system did have a predictive element in it, but it was essentially responsive. That meant that you didn’t have the same feel as the standard car in roll stiffness.
"There was a short period on entry to corners where the car had a floaty feel and then would stabilise. Nigel realised that on the other side of this few tenths of a second, there would be more grip, whereas [teammate] Riccardo Patrese always wanted more feel."
- Patrick Head, Motorsport, 2017
"I think that an active suspension car with traction control needs to be thrown around quite a lot, whereas I like to drive a little more quietly, perhaps using the throttle more sensitively, which perhaps is not needed quite so much in an active car."
- Alain Prost
round swift
Prost also later said that although he was amazed at the general quality and technology of the car, the FW15C was not his favorite car to drive and work with, as it was such a different car to drive and work with than any of the other cars he had driven before.
“I think the work McLaren has done in the last few weeks is having new programmes on the active suspension on their car. It is much better now. We did not improve. Our car is more or less the same one we had at the beginning of the season, but everyone else has improved.” - Alain Prost November 1 1993
wary oak
It also as I already did say didn’t help that they had to pay 16 mil to Senna fo...
“It was a million dollars a race!” recalls then McLaren operations director Martin Whitmarsh. “In 24 and a half years I was at McLaren we were profitable in F1. Our other businesses every single year apart from 1992-’93. We lost £1.5m, and we were paying Ayrton a million dollars a race.”
meager pewter
It might've been better had Ford Cozzie got the VB to work
So they weren't splitting resources on a couple different engines
paper fossil
i mean at least it wasn't ford cosworth having two zetec engines
also having the zetec works ford engine for stewart in 97 and an ed ford cosworth supplied to tyrrell in 1997
that was a v8 still
ford cosworth enigne designations in the 1990's are confusing as fuck
past drift
knotty mantle
When a remember that Red Bull-Ford was kind of a thing back in the 90s when thei...
Sauber liveries > Red Bull liveries
round swift
https://twitter.com/F1Photo/status/1642901667334041602
the car Michael Schumacher declared to be good enough to win the championship in 1995, definitely should've achieved more than just that single win at Montreal
wary oak
the car Michael Schumacher declared to be good enough to win the championship in...
Shoulda, coulda, woulda. I think the reason for it not winning more was the reliability issues and driver collisions.
knotty mantle
sudden zealot
So I’m writing an argumentative essay on Spygate 2007 and I want to argue that instead of fining mclaren the $100mil, that just the involved parties should’ve been punished instead of the whole team. Anyone know of anything important I should include?
copper mango
deez
round swift
April 7th. A sad day for motorsport fans.
The day, in 1968, the world lost multiple World Champion, Multiple F2 Champion, Three Times Tasman Champion, BTCC Champion. Indy 500 winner, Sports Car Ace and Rally Sensation, Jim Clark.
In an era of totally manual machinery, terrifying risk and chronic fragility he was pretty much the fastest driver in anything he drove. Winner of 25 World Championship Grand Prix from 72 starts (and a further 18 non Championship F1 races), he finished second only once in World Championship races (with a serious engine problem).
His win ratio is still among the top three in World Championship history. He still holds the Grand Chelem record. He remains the only driver in history to be World Champion and Indy 500 winner in the same season (He was also Tasman, British and French F2 Champion that same season), 1965. The year he won the World Title in a car his team mates managed just a single podium in.
Never rammed anyone, never required team orders to get someone to move over, never vetoed a team mate,. Universally respected by his peers as the best of them. Remained shy, humble and unmoved by fame an example to everyone of sporting ethics.
Those who know, know.
idle gale
The Scotsman who won at Spa whilst managing a screwed up gearbox
wary oak
Why was there three Ferraris that were classified in the 1976 Italian Grand Prix?
Furthermore, it appears that many individuals are unaware that Niki Lauda was entitled to the 1976 Spanish Grand Prix victory due to his triumph in the race after James Hunt's McLaren M23 was disqualified during post-race scrutineering. However, McLaren contested the disqualification, and in July, their appeal was successful, resulting in Hunt being reinstated as the winner of the Spanish Grand Prix.
tough talon
The Scotsman who won at Spa whilst managing a screwed up gearbox
and won by 4 minutes may he be remembered forever
past drift
The Scotsman who won at Spa whilst managing a screwed up gearbox
classic Lotus
“if the car still holds together after the finish line, it’s too heavy”
paper fossil
the impression i get is every driver colin ever had would come to despise him
hill and rindt in 69 esp
if rindt had gone back to brabham for 70 he would have likely won the title and come out with his life
andretti and mansell seem the exceptions
clark maybe as well
past drift
Clark definitely
paper fossil
that's said
67 was a tough time
and clark had enough
and was very likely going to retire after 68
honestly given the personality of mansell i ain't surprised he would be so fond of chapman
paper fossil
hill and rindt in 69 esp
i mean more on this i just love when Lotus made a 4WD F1 car and Graham Hill drove it once and said it was shite, while Rindt refused to step in it
Colin Chapman is determined to force Graham Hill to drive a Lotus 63, by force if necessary. Thus, he sold his 49 to the South African pilot John Love. Hill arrived furious at Silverstone and only reluctantly got into the four-wheel drive on Thursday afternoon. It turns out that this model heats up a lot and that in addition it has not received the same evolutions as that of John Miles. The tone rises between Chapman and Hill who obviously receives the reinforcement of Rindt. Thursday evening, the elegant mustachioed strikes an agreement with his friend Jo Bonnier to exchange their cars. Hill recovers 49B and the Swede takes care of 63! It is a characteristic act of rebellion. Mad with rage, Chapman is confronted with a fait accompli... Refusing to recognize that his 4x4s have failed (poor Miles and Bonnier realize it very quickly...), he shuts himself up in silence. Since his pilots refuse to drive the wonders he has concocted for them, too bad for them! He sulks until the end of the weekend and loses interest in the Grand Prix.
i think we know why john miles replaced him for 70
past drift
and was very likely going to retire after 68
but if he didn’t die Chapman might still have been ready to go full in with a driver. after Clark’s death, he didn’t want to do that to not suffer another eventual heartbreaking separation
paper fossil
he is just a dick though most times anyway
the clark relationship was one he held dear
he had a nice one with emmo but they still fell out in 73
paper fossil
honestly given the personality of mansell i ain't surprised he would be so fond ...
"As far as Mansell was concerned, he never made a mistake. If he won, it was because he was just better than everybody else and he had carried the car on his back. If he didn’t win, it was because somebody else had got it wrong. It wasn’t a popular approach with the mechanics: I remember once, during the noise of the race, and with my own headphones on, I could still hear Patrick shouting into his radio: ‘For fuck’s sake, Nigel, stop whinging and just drive the fucking car!’" - Frank Dernie
common Mansell slander
W
wise dirge
Godspeed, Jim
The greatest of his era and a remarkable man, you will never be forgotten
round swift
Mansell was so entertaining on the track that I couldn't care less what an attitude he had, the man pulled off some crazy stunts
knotty mantle
I love this section of Adelaide
knotty mantle
https://youtu.be/fjXw3dHaqcQ
❤️
round swift
I love this section of Adelaide
Isn’t that the spot where Schumacher and Hill collided?
round swift
I love this section of Adelaide
party gp
paper fossil
Mansell was so entertaining on the track that I couldn't care less what an attit...
it was that attitude that only got him 1 championship
"Nigel's idea of testing was to do a few laps, then go out and do a race distance so he could switch his brain off and bang in the laps before coming in to bolt on a set of qualifiers and go on as fast as possible. At the end of the day we learnt nothing. There was some pressure on Alain to go out and match Nigel's times to stop the team gravitating towards Nigel. Alain would roll his eyes, go out and immediately go three quarters of a second faster than Nigel, come back in and say 'right, back to work'. Nigel would be crushed and start muttering about politics." - Steve Nichols on Ferrari in 1990
round swift
Also I remember Coulthard saying that Mansell would set a lap time and bugger off to a golf course lol. This was the 94 season with Williams after Ayrton passed away.
paper fossil
The same Mansell who banned Coulthard from the garage
oblique dock
Seriously? I know Mansell had his diva moments, but jeez
paper fossil
I like how McLaren changed their radio procedures in the aftermath of Spain 1995 simply because Mansell was complaining on the radio too much about the car
there is also him parking perfectly functioning cars twice in his career
oblique dock
I like how McLaren changed their radio procedures in the aftermath of Spain 1995...
Didn't Patrick Head tell Mansell to shut the fuck up one time in 1986?
oblique dock
ah
paper fossil
there is also him parking perfectly functioning cars twice in his career
Same race and Spain or Germany 1990
from recollection
insane man
wretched man
round swift
The same Mansell who banned Coulthard from the garage
For what reason?
Wasn’t it a joke?
“As a joke, 'Coulthard Banned' signs appeared in the Williams pits with a photo of the unwanted colleague with a red diagonal stripe across it.”
Nvm
knotty mantle
Isn’t that the spot where Schumacher and Hill collided?
That was 1994. The onboard I sent was 1995
knotty mantle
Mansell was so entertaining on the track that I couldn't care less what an attit...
He was good at breaking cars too!
round swift
That was 1994. The onboard I sent was 1995
I know but I was asking if that was the spot from last year where they collided
knotty mantle
vague tusk
i swear upscaled videos just make things unrealistically smooth
like it's not noticable most the time, but in that vid it definitely is
meager pewter
It's all melty
I like the interpolation but only on live action stuff... The up scaling is cool but only to a degree
vague tusk
like here it just looks all brushed over
yeah upscaling is damn good when used correctly
but when used like shit it looks shit
knotty mantle
but when used like shit it looks shit
I don't have the correct upscaler for now but I'll try keeping it TV Broadcast
knotty mantle
apologises I was a bit harsh lol
It's ok I'm just trying my best to make videos look more fresh! :))
paper fossil
Good examples of bad upscales are littered over F1 TV
They have just done it to everything they hadn’t already added a while back for 2007 and back
And the tv graphics take a big hit for some reason
It just looks a bit messy
vague tusk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjpJNykIXFs this isn't too bad of an upscale
meager pewter
It's probably coz the original fdotage was a little better of a feed, but here you can see the stuttering with backgrounds in regards to the interpolation if both the car and camera are moving
Also this lap is crazy
paper fossil
thing is with the f1 tv 07 upscale is that i've seen better
so idk how fom with probably some of the best resource available has managed to fuck it up
it is mostly just obvious from the graphics tbf but it kinda makes it close to unwatchable lmao
meager pewter
Wait is this FOM's upscale that is borked?
vague tusk
Also this lap is crazy
yeah it was insane
meager pewter
To get twitchy in an 86 car is quite the gamble
meager pewter
Nooo bruh the 2007 footage was some of the worst anyway
paper fossil
and for some reason the tv graphics are buggered
yeah but i've seen better upscales
where the graphics ain't fucked
meager pewter
Oh fr?
paper fossil
yeah there is like a hungary quali clip on youtube
meager pewter
Hungary 2007 qualifying
paper fossil
meager pewter
paper fossil
like it looks better
than the 07 races that were done up by f1 tv
bar the ones they had already had up before going through all the seasons
which i think for 07 were
usa
europe
japan i think
and brazil
only thing those don't have is the higher fps
like
it is just smudged
for some reason
as if they just grabbed some 07 full races off the internet that were from the itv broadcast and had a go at trying to make it look better
vague tusk
what i never get over is how bad the graphics are
knotty mantle
And the tv graphics take a big hit for some reason
2002 -2005 onboards looked better than 2007 and 2008
paper fossil
what i never get over is how bad the graphics are
nah i liked these
gave the right info
paper fossil
looks better than the other one from f1tv i sent
like one is noticeable from watching it normally
the other looks bad once you have zoomed in massively
knotty mantle
This commentator predicted senna championship
paper fossil
jackie stewart
ideal he agrees with the thing that got ickx for a short while banned as clerk of the course
wise dirge
No way bro said this commentator
knotty mantle
> This commentator
I MEAN MURRAY WALKER
meager pewter
IT'S JACKIE STEWART
paper fossil
I MEAN MURRAY WALKER
what
slow grail
"haha he said 'this commentator'"
knotty mantle
IT'S JACKIE STEWART
Damn. I'm so bad
north sandBOT
Congrats @knotty mantle, you're now on lap 10
knotty mantle
Shut up saibz
oblique dock
Murray Walker is English.
Jackie Stewart is Scottish
knotty mantle
Murray Walker is English.
Jackie Stewart is Scottish
They both kinda sound similar
oblique dock
.....they don't
paper fossil
😭
knotty mantle
.....they don't
Damn it
meager pewter
I mean they're vaguely along similar vocal pitch?
Tho I'd say Murray is a bit higher and more enthusiastic by his nature
paper fossil
They don’t sound the same
I can say that
Jackie is pretty recognisable by voice alone
meager pewter
Look I'm tryna advocate for my man so the blow isn't as tough Ight
Iss not that deep
round swift
They absolutely don't sound alike at all
Jackie's accent is so strong it has its own gravitational field
oblique dock
round swift
Arrows ❤️
idle gale
The engine era where the V10s, V12s and V8s raced against each other
round swift
happy birthday to JV, turns 52 today
paper fossil
W
zinc glacier
Today, 28 years ago the F1 returned to Argentina
knotty mantle
Hrmmm
vague tusk
is that upscaled?
round swift
Today, 28 years ago the F1 returned to Argentina
it was an awful track
zinc glacier
💀
round swift
It's true
the only thing that track ever gave us was the "Diniz in the oven" headline
paper fossil
1997 was pretty good
Panis 2 stop vs Villeneuve’s 3 stop
Who had illness and a gear selection problem
Two Jordans battling each other
Turn 1 chaos
Benettons recovering from their as usual awful qualifying pace in 97
Herbert 4th as well
I mean 97 is probably the best of the 4 races when it did return
It wasn’t amazing like a lot of these places tend to be
If anyone ever says that tyre wars aren’t good they should probably be reconsidering
It allows for offsets
Differing strategies
Can bring certain smaller teams into it given the right circumstances
1997 has that element a lot
Would be interesting in the kind of midfield you have now and with points extending to 10th
vague tusk
Gilles Villeneuve driving a naked Ferrari 312T5 at Fiorano in 1978.
oblique dock
Don't you mean the 312T4 in 1979?
because the 312T5 was 1980 and 1978 had the 312T3
Oh, my mistake. It was the 312T5.
The year was still 1980 though
paper fossil
Would like to know what the purpose of this was
Simulation of a race situation Gilles would probably actually create for himself
Like that time he destroyed the tyre in Zandvoort
And drivers said what a stupid and dangerous thing it was to try to continue
While fans for some reason praise the shit out of it
meager pewter
I assume alot of it was just testing alot more of the mechanical grip or torsional rigiditt
Or testing the difference with and without tunnels due to the engine which had some tunnel obstruction
paper fossil
This sounds like John Surtees telling Alan Jones he’s going to take the wings off the car to test the suspension
Forgive me for thinking this just seems a bit pointless
round swift
The year was still 1980 though
Yeah a 1980 Ferrari 312T5 at Fiorano.
knotty mantle
wary oak
Isn't that the Canada circuit?
meager pewter
Uhuh
idle gale
The Bruce McLaren
round swift
It's sad he didn't live to see his team become one of the greats like Frank and Jack did with their teams
idle gale
Jack, Bruce and Dan inspecting Bruce's car
past drift
rare pic of Bruce McLaren driving a V12
meager pewter
Are yo7 sure it's not the other way around?
Okay nvm ignore me the Weslake V12 didn't have centre routed intakes
past drift
and he would have the same suit as Gurney, I suppose?
so I'm guessing it's the BRM engine
meager pewter
Ooooh
Okay yeah that's a BRM V12... Weird, all the images I'm seeing have a radiator up top
past drift
ye i just checked, but maybe one race they changed that 🤷♂️
uncut tundra
peak timber
past drift
the one written on the airbox?
oblique dock
Hey, that’s DC
oblique dock
1995?
oblique dock
1992?
oblique dock
Ah, figured it would’ve been 1990.
upbeat gate
round swift
heady flicker
What's the story behind the Mclaren 2003 car that never raced?
slow grail
it kept failing crash tests
heady flicker
it kept failing crash tests
Funny thing is Kimi almost won the championship with the car from the previous year lol
slow grail
despite winning just 1 race lol
round swift
It had severe overheating issues too
the problem was so bad McLaren's pit crew literally had fire extinguishers at the ready every time the car would come in from the track
Engine and gearbox also didn't work well with the car at all
oblique dock
The drivers were scared to even drive it
past drift
he wanted the best aero and the cooling was very undersized as a consequence
meager pewter
Newey was trying to make an uber-slim sidepod/coke bottle cooling package a couple years too early, with a Blown Diffuser exhaust which they had used for the 16 and prior (which gave the Beryllium McLarens their signature noise) but Ferrari had started the trend to stop that practice due to rising exhaust temps
These pipes around the suspension and gearbox? YEeeeah
The gearbox itself was new, Titanium with Carbon bonding to save weight... Which delaminated from the heat
The chassis was designed so tight it compromised side impact structure and cooling space, and the shape of the chassis according to Newey Would overload the Deltawing Vortex in front of the sidepod, making it unstable and causing it to burst in certain coniditons
TL:DR, New, Fragile, Unstable and overheating
idle gale
Kimi and Mika
idle gale
I can't believe I never asked this before. What the hell is that rear wing design on Ayrton's Toleman?
Was that to increase rear downforce etc?
oblique dock
Most likely.
past drift
yes, many teams had some sort of second rear wing in 84
most of them were winglets attached to the rear wing
heady flicker
Probably unpopular opinion: those 80s cars look ugly with the noses being so short
The late 60s/early 70s and the late 90s/early 2010s cars are way cooler imo
chrome basin
I can't believe I never asked this before. What the hell is that rear wing desig...
jesus what is that wing design
that looks awful
yes it's practical but still
upbeat gate
Mclaren have a funny and awful looking shark fin in 1995
round swift
I see Nigel in the car so that was either Imola or Catalunya
what a shitshow that short "partnership" of Ron and Nigel turned out to be, but hardly surprising given the egos in question
meager pewter
upbeat gate
The car is not even fitted with him
upbeat gate
looks very funny
round swift
I like how they originally made the cockpit too narrow 
upbeat gate
it looks thin as well
vague tusk
Kimi and Mika
2 of the goats
paper fossil
I see Nigel in the car so that was either Imola or Catalunya
The race he practically parked the car again and ranted heavily on the radio
I mean the McLaren deal was just something to satisfy Marlboro and was further prompted by Bernie
And Ron really had nothing else as a choice given 1994 in the first few months before the season began was spent trying to find someone to fill the hole Senna left the grid at that time was quite shocking
Fittipaldi and Barrichello were the other options
Oh yeah and Jos Verstappen
Steve Nichols has talked about how that car was a mess though the data was telling him that effectively the front wing and rear fell off during cornering
languid basin
upbeat gate
The funny looking shark fin is back in 1996.
oblique dock
Sauber, 2002, Nick Heidfeld?
vague tusk
2 legends, really high quality pic too
round swift
the guy whom Riccardo Patrese said to fuck off
round swift
Sauber, 2002, Nick Heidfeld?
Sauber 2001 or 2000 not sure, Kimi
Pre season testing I’m positive
idle gale
When V8 Supercars champion James Courtney was part of the Jags, before he had that infamous testing crash
upbeat gate
Jeez, it almost looks like this.
past drift
What’s the driver, year and team lol
kimi first test?
wary oak
kimi first test?
Possibly
torn brook
it's jochen's birthday yippeee!!!!
heady flicker
why were the front tyres smaller than the rear tyres in the past?
chrome basin
The funny looking shark fin is back in 1996.
this was unironically cool
wary oak
why were the front tyres smaller than the rear tyres in the past?
Better weight distribution, and handling most likely.
Larger rear tires provided better traction
idle gale
Whether this was done by accident or intentionally by Michael is still up for debate
heady flicker
Is David Croft the goat of f1 commentary?
past drift
Is David Croft the goat of f1 commentary?
no
past drift
Murray Walker, paired with James Hunt i would say
oblique dock
Murray’s done F1, Motorbikes, Touring Cars, and even Rallycross. He even made a guest appearance in Indycar during the 1994 Nazareth round.
meager pewter
Crofty stresses me out to sleep
round swift
Murray Walker and Martin Brundle was the real deal
I believe Murray even said a few times he enjoyed working with Martin the most
meager pewter
I loved James Allen as his voice is what I grew up with, but I know that for alot of people he wasn't it due to his British bias
oblique dock
Ben Edwards and John Watson were an underrated duo imo
round swift
they were the Eurosport duo right? I've always liked Watson's commentary but don't care much for Ben, he feels a bit too dry for me
oblique dock
Yea. The Eurosport duo
“RICCARDO ROSSET, YOU FOOL”
“And look at this GLOOOOORIOUS- 4 wheel drift.”
Some of my favorite Watson commentary bits
vague tusk
Murray’s done F1, Motorbikes, Touring Cars, and even Rallycross. He even made a ...
his videos about motorcycle safety are great
oblique dock
I know
I was actually invested in the stuff being taught
Very cool bit of content, if I do say so.
Ah, man I forgot to mention Murray's time in the military. He mentioned that on Letterman one time
round swift
yep, served in WWII as a member of the Royal Scots Greys 4th Armoured Brigade
idle gale
Ahh, the Japanese commentaries. Almost always over-the-top
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLb84MRsC8U
oblique dock
I remember seeing a clip of the start of the 1998 Canadian GP with Japanese commentary
Also, Keiichi Tsuchiya did some F1 commentary during the 90s
willow gorge
Ahh, the Japanese commentaries. Almost always over-the-top
https://www.youtube.c...
what the fuck
some silverstone 2022 shit
how have i never seen this
oblique dock
Also, Keiichi Tsuchiya did some F1 commentary during the 90s
The drift king himself being an F1 commentator.
Also, a rare onboard of Ukyo Katayama
tough talon
Is David Croft the goat of f1 commentary?
.vettel
north sandBOT
BUT HERE COMES SEBASTIAN VETTEL!!!!
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/418152690044895242/959255452758179850/Vettel.mp4
tough talon
2 legends, really high quality pic too
i literally just watched rush lmao fricking great
tough talon
Murray Walker, paired with James Hunt i would say
This is the perfect pair
frozen prism
there was also that one chinese commentary during Bahrain last year
it was pretty raw and crazy and I loved it
round swift
Hunt was a bitter, immature, unprofessional ass
Criticizing drivers is one thing, but insulting them and the whole Patrese thing was just behavior of a 13-year old
frozen prism
Hunt was just too full of pride
He was a womanizer and a prick
hell of a driver when he figured it out though
sucks that he died right when he started turning his life around
frozen prism
Criticizing drivers is one thing, but insulting them and the whole Patrese thing...
are you talking about how some of the drivers were blaming Patrese for causing the crash that killed Ronnie Peterson?
oblique dock
If I am not mistaken, they also wanted to ban Patrese from the F1 paddock for the United States Grand Prix
frozen prism
didn't they actually follow through with the ban?
round swift
Yeah. Patrese was cleared of any involvement both by FIA and the Italian court (after reviews of the footage revealed Patrese was well ahead when the accident happened and it was in fact Hunt who clipped Peterson) leading to all the drivers who were ragging on Patrese apologizing to the man except Hunt who continued hating him and going on downright ridiculous tirades against him on air
frozen prism
oh the irony
imagine blaming the wrong guy for indirectly causing your best friend's death
only to realize it was actually you 💀
past drift
i don’t think that’s irony
he just didn’t want to accept he was at fault for that accident
frozen prism
he just didn’t want to accept he was at fault for that accident
well i wouldn't blame him
i would be in denial too
but he was a real asshole for continuing to blame Patrese
idle gale
The iconic race when Ayrton inadvertently discovered Donington Park's "shortcut"
oblique dock
He set the fastest lap in the pitlane
round swift
Minardi cameo
round swift
Reminds me of Schumacher winning a race in the pit lane
dapper compass
Hunt was a bitter, immature, unprofessional ass
Hard agree. Absolutely no idea how he kept his post for even 1 season. All the Patrese stuff was really unjust.
The only thing I really liked about his commentary is how when you watch replays of it (e.g the Rene Arnoux incident at monaco, you probably know the one I'm talking about. If not search it up.) The way Murray walker just ignored his fellow commentator's comments to break the awkwardness
oh and his british bias was ridiculous as well (we're talking like 42 times any of the current commentator's stuff)
winter temple
as alot of people say, he didnt know but he didnt want to be in the car
meager pewter
He called Alain the night before
round swift
He saw and talked with him too during the weekend aswell
round swift
I never liked the mythology that formed around Ayrton's last day
It is true that he was perhaps the most severely affected of all the drivers by Roland's death, it is true he expressed discomfort with the car but surely other drivers had doubts about their own cars as well in light of what happened to Rubens and Roland. In the end, it was everyone's decision to go racing and unfortunately, things turned out the way they did. I certainly do not subscribe to some wild tales out there of how he predicted his demise or how there were signs around him (like the Bible story for example).
meager pewter
I don't like the idea that he knew he would die himself, he just was incredibly in conflict and did not want to do that race and it likely should've been that he dsidn't
upbeat gate
Spirit 201, 1983
oblique dock
Can't believe this year marks the 40th anniversary since Honda made their (first) return to F1 during the turbo era, not to mention the first Honda F1 V6 being made
upbeat gate
Man, time flies.
idle gale
"No! OOH MY!! OH MY!!!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVpi5IhzBDY
round swift
three drivers clocking in identical times in the final qualifying of the season, two of whom were the WDC rivals, was just epic
inner current
honest bramble
My son!
sacred grove
I remember that his engineer once said in the podcast that he walked into a restaurant and someone had "Felipe baby stay cool" as there ringtone lmfao
Imagine lmao
past drift
i’d sue them for copyright infringement /s
idle gale
Before Oracle Red Bull Racing, there was Benetton Oracle
Williams at their Prime and towards their Peak (?)
meager pewter
It's the front suspension bulge
round swift
Yeah cuz of the active suspension
past drift
yes, i don’t like that bulge
upbeat gate
chrome basin
to bulge... or to not bulge?
round swift
Gerhard really did use to have a lot more hair on his head, didn't he
past drift
correct!
round swift
What’s Senna reading
I can’t make out what it says
Something about Senna and Gilles (Villeneuve?)
clever ravine
It’s an Italian newspaper so it’ll be a connective word for the two drivers I presume
clever ravine
Something about Senna and Gilles (Villeneuve?)
Yeah I’d guess so
Ohhhhh so basically the cover is asking who’s better, senna or Gilles
round swift
Oh okay
What year do you think that picture was taken
It says 1986 Brabham on the cover
It should be 1986
I think Lotus had different overalls in '87
True it was all yellow
oblique dock
Lotus used Camel sponsoring in 1987
sterile sand
Niki Laudas helm after the crash in Nürburgring 1976
oblique dock
https://youtu.be/NDsWNaXKqnc?t=152 I found some footage of Allan McNish driving the MP4/5C at Suzuka
Shame it's a brief clip
round swift
"McLaren was busy designing and building MP4/5B race cars during the 1990 season while also working on an MP4/5C test car to accommodate Honda's new V12 engine for the following season. Despite the severe damage sustained by Senna's first 'B' car during pre-season shakedown trials at Silverstone, the incident provided valuable evidence to support the driver's assertion that the new chassis was more responsive than the MP4/5. McLaren test driver Allan McNish drove the MP4/5C during its public on-track debut at Silverstone ahead of the 1990 French Grand Prix. Even though McNish did not push the car to its limits, the V12 engine impressed with its dependability at such an early stage of development."
wary oak
"As long as my passion for my profession is kept alive, my dream will be to survive. The day when this passion starts weakening, my dream will end. Formula One is a world of strong emotions and personality where the weak do not survive." - Ayrton Senna
oblique dock
How old is McNish
As of now, McNish is 53 years old
He’s just several months younger than Michael Schumacher
wary oak
Jesus that qualifying lap from Berger looks insane, probably one of the most intense onboard video I've seen from the 90s
and to think that Senna was 1.2 seconds faster...
upbeat gate
idle gale
I do love the sounds of the old Ferrari V12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsrhAr_i1WU
upbeat gate
Not F1 related but here is Roland Ratzenberger and Roland Rat
(He's been mentioned in 8:08. Rest in peace, Roland.)
https://youtu.be/j6o-aCZSyi8
magic venture
meager pewter
https://youtu.be/d6BjcEoMgXg?t=141
My guy's downshifting into braking zones is hard
true tiger
round swift
What F1 car is this?
oblique dock
Isn't that a Formula 2 car
because it certainly doesn't look like any F1 car Team Lotus has produced
round swift
I thought maybe it was the Lotus 49
round swift
Thanks
oblique dock
digital jungle
round swift
how tf u find those good photos
Instagram lol
outer pier
oooooh
outer pier
oblique dock
Rest in peace, Roland Ratzenberger.
July 4, 1960 - April 30, 1994
round swift
floral spoke
Rest in peace, Roland Ratzenberger.
July 4, 1960 - April 30, 1994
R.I.P
upbeat gate
Rest in peace, Roland Ratzenberger.
July 4, 1960 - April 30, 1994
😔 It's been 29 years after his death.
dusty hamlet
Rest in Peace, Ayrton Senna. March 21, 1960-May 1st, 1994.
upbeat gate
Tomorrow is him.
dusty hamlet
Tomorrow is him.
It's Monday here.
meager pewter
Rest in Peace, Ayrton Senna. March 21, 1960-May 1st, 1994.
How tired was bro here? He looks older than when he was at Williams
dusty hamlet
How tired was bro here? He looks older than when he was at Williams
He was driving a toleman.
meager pewter
Oh damn fair
ocean zenith
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/schumacher-in-trouble-1.121931
🤣
round swift
Senna leading the 1994 San Marino GP
timber warren
outer pier
29 years since senna death
love you senna! you too ratzenberger
so cool to see everyone uploading roland pics here aswell
round swift
Today marks the 29th anniversary of Ayrton Senna's death, a true legend in motorsport. His skill, courage, and dedication to his craft inspired millions and fans still feel his loss deeply. Let us remember him for his incredible accomplishments on the track and his commitment to making the sport safer for everyone. Ayrton Senna's legacy lives on and will be recognized as one of the most significant drivers of all time.
oblique dock
Ayrton Senna. Forever my favorite driver, forever an icon in the world of Formula 1.
Godspeed, Ayrton.
round swift
so cool to see everyone uploading roland pics here aswell
It's definitely nice to see, Ratzi is often forgotten and that's just heartbreaking
Ayrton himself would be the first person to be upset about it
outer pier
yes
digital jungle
north sandBOT
Congrats @digital jungle, you're now on lap 5
fair ivy
wise dirge
Gone but never forgotten 🙏
oblique dock
frozen prism
Ayrton Senna, national hero, the best in the rain, the best when he reigned, 3x World Champion, 41 Wins, 65 Pole Positions, still holds the record for the most wins at Monaco. Never Forgotten
frozen prism
Roland Ratzenberger, 1993 LeMans Class winner, promising rookie, a great friend and contemporary to those around him. Never Forgotten
manic reef
Lets not forget Roland, taken too soon and yet no official tributes to him or a single mention, just tucked away in shame by F1
not a single recognition of him, its so fucking sad
past drift
FIA president went to his funeral and not Ayrton's
manic reef
The F1 instagram comments on Ayrton's post was all asking about Roland
oblique dock
His helmet resembles Austrian flag which is interesting.
I think that was the point of his helmet design
idle gale
The final podium
round swift
Lets not forget Roland, taken too soon and yet no official tributes to him or a ...
Absolutely embarrasing by F1, shambolic and disgusting. Not a single mention of Roland, as if he never existed in the first place
Just like I have no respect for drivers who couldn't be bothered to attend Roland's funeral, I have no respect for an organization that won't even acknowledge your passing unless you've achieved great results
round swift
“Honestly, it’s very difficult for me to talk about Ayrton, and not only because he’s not here any more. He was so different, you know, so completely different from any other racing driver – any other person – I’ve ever known…” - Alain Prost
round swift
Classic F1 gamers, who was F1's last non-classified race finisher?
Someone who made it to the finish line, but couldn't even manage to lap 90% of the race distance
Latest one I could find was Gianmaria Bruni at the 2004 Aussie GP with Minardi
past drift
there's Webber, Germany 2005 ; Albers Hungary 2005 ; Webber Brasil 2005 ; Sato Turkey 2006
probably quite a lot of non classified tbh
round swift
Kovalainen Malaysia 2010 and di Grassi Brazil 2010 are the ones after Sato so far
Glock Australia 2011, Ricciardo Italy 2011
past drift
anyway, they're actually not that rare
round swift
Bianchi Australia 2014
They got rarer, the more teams realized you could definitely just pull into the pits and save engine mileage
Alonso with McLaren could've had a lot of NC finishes, but most of the time he just went to the pits and did something else
round swift
So the last NC finish then was nearly ten years ago, Bianchi with Manor in 2014
might be too recent for classic tbh tbh
past drift
definitely!
round swift
here's something more classic
past drift
a Forti? now that's not very frequent
oblique dock
Ah the FG01. The last F1 car to use a full H pattern manual gearbox
dreamy prawn
Am I the only one who thinks Roland Ratzenberger's helmet looks beautiful
no, it’s so simplistic i wish helmets were like this
it’s very beautiful
round swift
a Forti? now that's not very frequent
glad you like the pic, moreno is my personal hero for dragging the shittiest cars known to man onto the grid
paper fossil
ah my favourite thing about the fortis is the constant mention by a certain f1 journo about another car having sex with it it to create even more hideous looking f1 cars
1996 ferrari take note
meager pewter
glad you like the pic, moreno is my personal hero for dragging the shittiest car...
And winning in Cleveland
river cave
Absolutely embarrasing by F1, shambolic and disgusting. Not a single mention of ...
Crofty did bring it up during the race saying it was the anniversary of his passing
but nothing from any of the teams or the FIA
I guess that sort of thing tends of happen when a multiple world champion dies
While he didn't win the championship, Everyone remembers Villeneuve's death in '82, barely anyone remembers Ricciardo Paletti's death at the Canadian Grand Prix
oblique dock
No one remembers Manfred Winkelhock's death in the middle of the 1985 F1 season compared to Bellof's death. (ironically, both died in sportscar events. Winkelhock died at Mosport, Bellof died at Spa.)
idle gale
A compilation of Ayrton Senna's unique throttle technique https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brjNZ6VlgSg&ab_channel=A.Santos
oblique dock
Prost, Mansell, and even Berger stabbed the throttle mid corner on several occasions
round swift
I remember watching some Mansell onboards and he would definitely do it, along with quite a few other bizarre driving habits that made him so exciting to watch
oblique dock
upbeat gate
digital jungle
round swift
What year defines “classic” for here again?
upbeat gate
1950-2003
round swift
Ahhhh right on
round swift
what happened in 2004 /j
ngl i would consider up to ten years ago canon as well
call it nostalgia, because it is, but 2012 was a classic to me
upbeat gate
The young Nico Rosberg, 2002
round swift
I think 20 years is the perfect cut-off
next year we get to talk about Schumi's 2004 demonstration of power
digital jungle
The young Nico Rosberg, 2002
Man he's been with Williams for a long ass time
hallow snow
Man he's been with Williams for a long ass time
for two years 2006 to 2009 he achieved two podiums for the team in 2007 i think
oblique dock
Didn't he also score a podium in 2008, too?
hallow snow
Yes i think
round swift
correct
2006 regs introduced them, actually!
a transitional period from the 1998 to the 2009 regulations
meager pewter
Kinda cringe ngl
round swift
Toro Rosso still ran a V10 in 2006 albeit limited to 16,700 rpm
STR1 had been basically a reskin of 2005's RB1
upbeat gate
Minardi and Super Aguri using Arrows A23 between 2003 and 2005.
Even before 2013 until 2016, Rosberg and Hamilton were teammates in 2001.
digital jungle
for two years 2006 to 2009 he achieved two podiums for the team in 2007 i think
Yeah, he really pushed Williams during the Toyota days
digital jungle
Even before 2013 until 2016, Rosberg and Hamilton were teammates in 2001.
Yeah, that was the reason why Ham and Nico were happy to be teammates in Merc in 2013
I think it was even one of the reasons that ultimately pushed Lewis to choose Mercedes over McLaren
paper fossil
I mean Wurz thought Nico was one of the fastest drivers on the grid after his season with him in 2007
round swift
funny how 7 years later they still don't talk to each other and it's becoming increasingly likely they never will
hallow snow
Yeah
upbeat gate
It's a shame about Lola
paper fossil
is it
lola were about 10-15 years past when they should have thought about entering formula one
this was just when formula one was becoming for the big sharks
tbf probably a good 5 years into that
didn't stand a chance
upbeat gate
Deserved to join in 1998
meager pewter
lola were about 10-15 years past when they should have thought about entering fo...
Bro hasn't heard about Larrousse
paper fossil
chassis
vs running a whole team
i mean larrousse still didn't last
and it had quite a few problems like having two murderers as part of management
klaus walz was an interesting guy
if lola had thought about a full blown entry in the 1980's then maybe it would have some way of elevating itself up the grid or establishing itself as a ligier type of team
but to reap the benefits of mastercard and sponsorship it had to enter in 97 when it was nowhere near prepared
that kind of team being established during the late 90's was never going to cut it
manic reef
and it had quite a few problems like having two murderers as part of management
Whats the context of this
paper fossil
Whats the context of this
One of the least known yet most remarkable stories of the era was that of Gerard Larrousse's partner Rainer Walldorf who was briefly involved in F1 in 1992. The 50-year-old German was actually called Klaus Walz and was wanted by the police in several countries in connection with four different - and rather nasty - murders. F1 only discovered this when news came from France that Walldorf's house had been raided early one morning by a posse of French police. He had taken his arrest calmly and asked if he might collect something important from the desk in his study. He rummaged around until he found the hand grenade he was looking for and then gave the assembled policemen a choice: they could all blow up together there and then, or he could take the police chief hostage and handcuff everyone else to the available furniture. The policemen had a vote and were manacled to the fixtures and fittings while Walz and the police chief went off in a car into the country. On the way he telephoned an accomplice and they met in the hills, leaving the police chief handcuffed to the steering wheel of his car, and throwing the hand grenade into a nearby chicken coop.
A month later Walz was tracked down to a hotel in Germany where, after being surrounded for nine hours by German police, he was killed in a gun battle...
"On February 28, 1989, Calmels killed his wife, with whom he had several children. According to the later findings of the court, it was an act of jealousy . Calmels was sentenced in March 1990 to a six-year prison sentence, but released early from prison in 1992"
round swift
is it
yes it is. Lola's failure was entirely MasterCard's fault, the original plan was for them to join in 1998 only for MasterCard to change their minds at the last minute and force a 1997 entry with disastrous results (as the car was haphazardly put together to meet the deadline)
this has nothing to do with big sharks or whatever, this is a story where there is entirely a clear-cut guilty party who is to blame and that's MasterCard