He’s not much slower than Jacques
#classic-motorsport
knotty mantle
And is unlucky
Did her had a chance in 1996?
paper fossil
What
oblique dock
Frentzen was at Sauber for 1996
knotty mantle
Frentzen was at Sauber for 1996
Fuck I forgot hill was in William's in 1996
oblique dock
Yeah. He was Williams' second to last champion.
paper fossil
Sadly
round swift
Jacques or Michael?
I don’t think Frentzen would’ve been able to compete for the championship tbh
I also don’t understand why Hill was kicked out of Williams after winning the drivers championship, made no sense to me
oblique dock
36 isn't really old
paper fossil
Plus the stupid way his agent discussed matters with Frank
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Because he sucked so badly in 1995
If he sucked so much in 1995 how come he didn’t get kicked out until the end of the 1996 season?
Because of his contract?
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His 1995 had a lot of retirements
But other than that he finished in the podium almost every race he finished
paper fossil
He had a faster car than the benetton
And made many mistakes
Or was just not quick enough
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Some races were the gearbox and engine
paper fossil
The fact he was even in the title fight in 94 was a disgrace
But Hill was huge let down in 95
And Frentzen was doing well wit Sauber
Add to that Frank had a good relationship with his agent
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Some races wasn’t Damons fault though
paper fossil
Sure
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Like Canadian and Brazil Grand Prixs
paper fossil
But he was still being outperformed by Schumacher
In what was in reality the fastest car that season
paper fossil
And DC was slowly starting to peform better
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True
paper fossil
Yeah but even before most of those retirements Schumacher was performing better
It would be like arguing Kimi was better than Alonso in 05
Well yeah he also had a fucking rocketship newey car
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Yeah but even before most of those retirements Schumacher was performing better
I believe the FW17 was the better qualifying car than on race days
FW17 had a bunch of poles
paper fossil
Good enough car to do the job
Hill just wasn’t that great and he’s happy to admit it
Given Prost still beat him comfortably in 93 despite hating the car and his performance level being lower than his prior years
And Hill literally developing that car
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Hill just wasn’t that great and he’s happy to admit it
I disagree and that's okay. I feel like Hill was a good enough driver for Williams, bettetr than Patrese.
1995 wasn't Hills fault, but Williams fault. It was unreliable
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Only one won a championship though
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Out of all of the retirements from the FW17 during the season, only three were Accidental
paper fossil
Disagree on it not being Hills fault
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3 of the 11 were Accidental
100 percent not the drivers fault for the rest of the DNFs
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The FW17 had like 5 DNFS because of the Gearbox
Who wouldve been a better driver than Damon for the 1995 season?
Aside from Micheal because he was with Ferrari
Damon was the second best driver of the season
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Why not
paper fossil
Until Alonso and Kimi turn it it is pretty poor
Michael is easily the best
By a country mile tbh
paper fossil
Given the likes of Hakkinen got packed by Herbert at Lotus
Sure
But it doesn’t make Hill any better
He’s in like the best team on the grid
Driving a car that was easily faster
paper fossil
Yeah but no
paper fossil
Hmmm
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Exactly like Damon in 1997
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same with Damon in 1997
paper fossil
If you were going to pick out anything it would be his second career
paper fossil
same with Damon in 1997
At times being beaten by the so called pay driver in Diniz
And getting performances when the Bridgestone tyres had a performance offset over the goodyears
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At times being beaten by the so called pay driver in Diniz
Lol he retired from every race what
paper fossil
Like he does it Hungary and then is awful in Austria
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He finished like 5 races that season
paper fossil
Should have been with Trulli
paper fossil
Diniz is like faster all weekend until he has two engine failures in qualifying
Ruining his race
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Diniz finished in the points like once
faster all weekend doesnt mean anything
he got two points all season
paper fossil
Looking at the wikis is dumb as shit
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Glad im not
paper fossil
Diniz literally has Hill on quite a few occasions
But Hill scores all the big results
When the Bridgestone tyres have a peformance offset like Hungary
Like bruh Michael does a way more impressive job to score points after having to use goodyear softs
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But Hill scores all the big results
Because he was the faster driver of the two.
Diniz retired from all the races he competed in
Qualifying doesnt mean anything
paper fossil
Yeah but not as much as you would think
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Like bruh Michael does a way more impressive job to score points after having to...
Michael won a race because of the stupid situation at the US GP
paper fossil
I mean if anything Diniz is better in races to hill than Quali
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Diniz was not better in races
paper fossil
Michael won a race because of the stupid situation at the US GP
He won a race because Michelin failed to do a job a tender should
Supply safe tyres
But even then
The change to one tyre a race totally screwed Ferrari and Bridgestone
They had spent years developing tyres to extract peak peformance
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Supply safe tyres
Safe tyres that the asphalt had grooves and cuts in them, ahah F1 shouldn't of raced there!
paper fossil
How Michael even got p3 in the championship is unbelievable
paper fossil
Safe tyres that the asphalt had grooves and cuts in them, ahah F1 shouldn't of r...
It was literally the same surface in 03 and 04
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How Michael even got p3 in the championship is unbelievable
Because Montoya missed races that year
paper fossil
It was the tyre rule that made it worse
paper fossil
Michelin literally sat there having done no testing on the new track surface for like 2 years
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Seems like a Ferrari issue then
paper fossil
And did nothing but bring the unsafe tyres anyway
paper fossil
Seems like a Ferrari issue then
So not a Michael issue
He did what he could with it
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same with damon in 1997
paper fossil
Bridgestone had a new construction many times and they would go from having the quali peformance to it sucking ass in the race vice versa
It wasn’t ideal
paper fossil
same with damon in 1997
Oh sure but he isn’t beating Jacques in 97
paper fossil
Jacques literally nearly had him in 96 having raced none of the tracks before
And the 1997 Williams was highly difficult to set up
Hill would be mince meat under the mental pressure
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Jacques literally nearly had him in 96 having raced none of the tracks before
Damon was 20 points up on him
What do you mean
Damon had more wins than him
paper fossil
He won by 20 pts
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and retired from more races
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thats still far away
paper fossil
But Hill mid season had some shit performances
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he would need to win 2 more races to past him in the championship
paper fossil
Bottled sealing it up in Italy
And wtf happened in Estoril idk
Against a rookie
Who had never raced on any of the tracks on the calendar
paper fossil
Cool
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Ok?
paper fossil
Cool
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who cares about a race dude
paper fossil
But barely
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championship>race
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19 seconds behind becasue Villeneuve was faster
was he actually faster during the season though?
No
paper fossil
He is easily in that conversation for one of the worst champions
Age old Prost beats him
paper fossil
He gets shoehorned into the 1994 title fight by sus fia intervention
And prior to that Senna destroys him ib qualifying
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And prior to that Senna destroys him ib qualifying
Senna, the best Qualifier ever
paper fossil
your point?
That despite all the advantages given to Hill he sucks
Sure
But it is still bad
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That despite all the advantages given to Hill he sucks
He sucks when you try to compare him to Prost and Senna
Hill beat Villeneuve
Lol
paper fossil
Sure
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It's literally facts
paper fossil
But the metric here is his teammates
And also the fact he gets given good enough machinery to win titles at least 3 times and wins only once
In a car clear of the second best team that season
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And also the fact he gets given good enough machinery to win titles at least 3 t...
1994 and 1995 you're talking about?
paper fossil
Yes
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1995 was going to Michael no matter what Hill did
paper fossil
Because that is fucking standard lmao
If I go through champions
I’m putting a shit ton of people ahead of Hill
Easily
He falls into the bottom
Is it any god dammn suprise given his career started out in bikes and he had never done karting
And his switch to single seaters was late
In 1994 he somehow ends up in a title fight because of some bullcrap FIA intervention
To set up a finale
1995 he has mistakes
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I’m putting a shit ton of people ahead of Hill
Obviously but he would be in the top 30
paper fossil
Williams make some also but he’s culpable just as much
1996 he wins the title in an extremely fast car against a rookie teammate who has been racing in America practically his whole life
1997 he peforms as expected when the car is competitive
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In 1994 he somehow ends up in a title fight because of some bullcrap FIA interve...
the first 8 races it was terrible
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benneton had the better car
paper fossil
Senna had it literally up with Michael in 2 of the first 3 races
Damon is way off the pace
paper fossil
benneton had the better car
Not across the season
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Damon finished on the podium on the first race of the season
Senna spun or something
Not bad for a first race of the season
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Not across the season
The second half of the season I would say that Williams had the better car
but for starting out the Williams was unstable
like what Senna said
paper fossil
Schumacher and Senna literally lapped Hill
It just sounds like a skill issue for Hill
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Once again, comparing against the top greastest drivers in F1
Hill wasn't going to win but almost managed
paper fossil
To literally mark where Hill is
Which is the point
He isn’t great at all
And he’s in a top team
paper fossil
He’s mid as fuck
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You're making him seem like he drives like de Sesaris
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He’s mid as fuck
haha nope
paper fossil
I am not
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You are
paper fossil
I am saying he’s easily one of the worst world champions
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You tell me he retired from the races because of himself and not the car, which wasn't true
paper fossil
And the standard across the field from 1994 to like 01/03 was awful
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I am saying he’s easily one of the worst world champions
haha definitely not, he deserved that championship
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I am saying he’s easily one of the worst world champions
So what about Alan Jones, Villeneuve, Benson, Schekter, Phil Hill, etc?
Villeneuve won the championship because it was one of the most dominate f1 cars of the 90s
paper fossil
Just wasn’t
Field closed in 97
He faced Schumi directly
And the thing was an ass ache to set up correctly and had no direction
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He faced Schumi directly
Ferrari's car wasn't that good that year
paper fossil
The 1996 Williams was a better car
paper fossil
Ferrari's car wasn't that good that year
It was better than the horrendous 96 Barnard monstrosity
Villeneuve also got taken out in Australia
Had a car failure in Imola while leading
Had an issue that he nursed in Argentina
To win
Was on slick tyres on the front row in Monaco
Canada his fault
Crashed out
Had no pace in France and spun at the final corner trying pass Irvine
Car was awful in Germany but against he made the mistake
paper fossil
In Belgium he was again put onto the wrong tyres
Somehow got P5
We were talking about that and the 1996 and 97 Williams cars
The 1996 Williams car was easily better than the 97
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Ferrari's car wasn't that good that year
i was talking about the 96 Ferrari
paper fossil
It was better in 97
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The 1997 Williams was a good car that year
paper fossil
The point is rather unimportant
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and he almost won the chmapionship in 1998
paper fossil
And the likes of Prost, Benetton (at low drag tracks) and Jordan could win races
paper fossil
5th
paper fossil
Happens
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to villeneuve
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But 99-01 he performs incredibly
Same with Damon haha, won in 1998 and retired in 99
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99 was his worst season
also he just didnt have the passion and was pretty old at the time
and the car sucked
lol
paper fossil
Which is a good reason for Williams moving on
Hill was not a long term solution
And they didn’t believe he could carry the team
Looking at everything his sacking based on 95 is fair
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I'm glad Hill was able to find a bit of other success after 1996, because man williams in 1998 was so bad
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Hill was not a long term solution
Villenuve won a few races in 1997 and then fell off
and nobody noticed him anymore
paper fossil
Meh
paper fossil
98 Williams was not great
99 BAR couldn’t do shit
And yet he still performed peformances out of his ass
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Did he win any races?
paper fossil
No
But neither did he get any chance
Damon won one because Michael drove into the back of Coulthard
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Damon won one because Michael drove into the back of Coulthard
and also he got a podium aswell
in a shitty jordan
did Jacques get any podiums after 1997?
paper fossil
Yes
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I did not know
paper fossil
Two in 98
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He was with BAR at the time
paper fossil
Spain and Germany in 01
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Villeneuve was never the same again after Williams.
Never won anything
Expect for Le Mans
He got p2
paper fossil
He was fine
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He was mid
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1999??
paper fossil
Bro
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Worst season ever
paper fossil
That thing literally retired nearly every race
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Driver fault?
paper fossil
Watch the dammn season fgs
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Why watch, when I can just read about it lol
Did Mika Salo out score him in the 1999 season?
paper fossil
Because that doesn’t provide nearly enough
Stats f1 as a source for summing up seasons my days
You might as well use wiki
paper fossil
Ngl
It has a few things wrong
It will tell you a few extra things
But nothing massive
paper fossil
It won’t given you context to the season fully
Not unlike reading books
Listening to journalists
paper fossil
Drivers
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Yes it does
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It can link all of it
paper fossil
Not that level
paper fossil
I’ve literally read them before
It is decent
But I wouldn’t use it as a single source
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Better than Wiki lol
paper fossil
Sure
You have to watch the season
Read behind the lines
Ask
Look on the internet
Read books
I’m nowhere near clued up
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It's all on YouTube I can watch it
paper fossil
I have a friend I ask about certain info all the time
Like he has a shit ton of stories
That brings light to what actually happened
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That brings light to what actually happened
Just like what I read everywhere else
Lol
paper fossil
Sure
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Ok
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No
paper fossil
Suggesting the 1997 Williams was the fastest car of the 90’s
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Suggesting the 1997 Williams was the fastest car of the 90’s
Nope
Out of context
I said it was one of the fastest
Not THE fastest
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Like i said, one of the fastest in the 90s
paper fossil
There is plenty above it
The point about that was that Hill had it easier in 96 than Villeneuve did in 97
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There is plenty above it
Not plenty, but a few
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The point about that was that Hill had it easier in 96 than Villeneuve did in 97
Doesn't change the fact that Villeneuve was only good in the fastest f1 cars
Lol
One hit wonder
paper fossil
And Hill was worse
He spent 1993, 1994, 1995 and 1996 in the fastest cars and won 1 time
Villeneuve put more respectable performances in a pile of dog shite like the 1999 BAR
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And Hill was worse
Hill had more points, and more wins
paper fossil
And then midfield cars in 00-01
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Comapred to Villeneuve
paper fossil
You aren’t helping yourself
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Villeneuve put more respectable performances in a pile of dog shite like the 199...
Villeneuve never won a race again in his life
Why do people think Gilles was better lol
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The Jordan was mid cars
paper fossil
But better
paper fossil
The BAR’s
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Which season though
paper fossil
He won Belgium not on pure pace as a start off
paper fossil
The 1997 Arrows was a better car than the BAR ever was during 99
And the two Jordans he raced were better than anything Villeneuve had from 00-03 at BAR
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And the two Jordans he raced were better than anything Villeneuve had from 00-03...
Because of Damons ablility to get wins in it
paper fossil
and yet the results were still pretty similar he managed to win one race because of a Michael retirement and never got another podium
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and then 2004 happened when he left
paper fossil
He wasn’t at BAR in 2004 my man
paper fossil
What
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Still got outscored by Button though in 03
paper fossil
Yes
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'04 BAR was the best season for the team
paper fossil
I have already admitted that
oblique dock
'04 BAR was the best season for the team
Possibly the best ever winless season in F1
paper fossil
But saying Villeneuve was awful after 97 is wrong
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He for sure sucked after 01
He sucked after 1997
paper fossil
Yeah no
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He couldnt win a race period
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Damon had machinery that wasnt able to win races but he mamaged
paper fossil
Hill wins one lucky race and somehow that merits
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Hill record is so much more sufficient than Villeneuve. Villeneuve was known for 1997 and that's about it. Nobody remembered him.
He was forgotten of
paper fossil
Like as I already said Hill had better machinery than Villeneuve did after Williams
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They both were garbage
but yes the jordan aws a bit better
and was able to win a race
paper fossil
Better enough
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Not by alot
paper fossil
Disagree
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It's never the car but the driver...
paper fossil
If we are talking about putting the 99 one in
That could consistently get podiums
And Hill was nowhere
paper fossil
Bruh
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same with Damon
paper fossil
We have gone over this
Because the car was nowhere near to the level needed to get podiums by pace or let alone finishing a race
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That was the Jordan
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98 was a mid season and Damon had a win in it
paper fossil
Car from like about mid season in 98 was much better
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finshed p5 or p4 in the championship
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97 was even worst
paper fossil
Sure
paper fossil
But when he did get results there was a reason
Tyre performance offset
And a nicely balanced car
It wasn’t Hill magic
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97 was as terrible as BAR
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they finished p8 in the championship
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Like do you even know anything
More than you know, I keep laughing at you for the reasons you come with
paper fossil
I have literally watched these seasons and races
And most of the comments come from journos
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We can ask Ex-Feerarista and get his opinion on this
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Stop comparing them against me
paper fossil
Listen to bring back v10’s fgs
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You make no sense whatssoever
paper fossil
It will help you
paper fossil
The facts are when Hill got results in the 1997 Arrows it was because of the Bridgestone tyres
Hungary 1997 is literally that
All the competitive goodyear runners select the wrong tyres
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The facts are when Hill got results in the 1997 Arrows it was because of the Bri...
Dude you're to funny to be taken seriously
paper fossil
And the tyre offset allows Hill to be that far up
Bro
Man
Literally listen to the dammn episode
It will save me time from your ignorance
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And the tyre offset allows Hill to be that far up
You're rubbish. Damon qualified p3 because he gave it all he had and you're saying because of a tyre offset
Completely untrue.
paper fossil
You're rubbish. Damon qualified p3 because he gave it all he had and you're sayi...
He qualified p4 about nearly a second off p3 on his best track that requires little in the way of anything apart from a balanced car which is what the arrows was it was easy to drive just not that advanced to be that quick on conventional tracks
The race is the main thing
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He qualified p4 about nearly a second off p3 on his best track that requires lit...
nope he qualified p3
Please look it up if you're confused
paper fossil
Yes sorry
Wrong race
Even then most of that still stands up
It literally features in that episode
paper fossil
Yeah mate idc
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thought so
paper fossil
Listen to that episode
paper fossil
I like how sometimes outperforms Hill turns into needing to be every time
Like mate I literally have given you info from highly experienced journos comments from people who ik what they are talking about and you pull out stats f1 and are like no
I literally have grid gaps for a lot of seasons
Superlap times for cars across seasons
And you are like yeah nope
Hill described it earlier in the year: “The car was quite nice to drive, probably because it was slow. It didn’t have any downforce but it was well-balanced.”
“While Villeneuve and – to a much greater extent – Ferrari floundered on the wilting Goodyears, every Goodyear runner that looked like it had a shot at handling the situation better hit trouble or was coming from too far back.”
“But a massive part of this fairytale was Hill’s absolute brilliance that day, and the twisty circuit negating many of the underpowered Arrows-Yamaha’s usual shortcomings.”
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“But a massive part of this fairytale was Hill’s absolute brilliance that day, a...
Exactly
"Plus Hill was traditionally superb around the tricky and technical Hungaroring. He’d even managed to get the awful 1992 Brabham onto the grid there, one of only two races he managed to qualify it for."
paper fossil
Okay that is nice
But the biggest factors are one
The Arrows shortcomings aren’t as present on such a track
It is nicely balanced
The Bridgestone tyres in a race distance have an edge
Some of the most competitive drivers are on the softer compound of Goodyears
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It is nicely balanced
"It was a brilliant drive in which Hill took complete command of the weekend after a string of confidence-shaking mishaps and misfortunes in preceding races."
"Admittedly the usual frontrunners all found ways to open the door for him to star, But as Hill showed with that unforgettable, late-braking, sure-footed, Schumacher-squeeze-resisting pass for the lead, on this day he was coming through anyway."
🥱 sure...
paper fossil
Right
Man passed a guy with no tyres
Congrats
But the fact Frentzen could have even won the race with Hill having so many advantages is poor
It was all set up to given him an opportunity
The reason isn’t because of a sudden peformance boost from Hill
It is because of factors allowing for the Arrows car to run the best it ever did that season
Like bruh jump forward to Austria and you have a similar situation where the Bridgestones look like a great tyre and until Diniz has 2 engine failures in a single Quali session he is faster than Hill and so is Trulli who is literally deputising and was nowhere in Hungary
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Like bruh jump forward to Austria and you have a similar situation where the Bri...
“Then I started adding weight to the nose of the car, which for me normally would be an absolute ‘no-no’, because you’re increasing your polar moments by throwing weight out the front, but it helped to get a bit of temperature in the front tyres.”
paper fossil
Yeah idk why you replied to that conment
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“When you’re all using different compounds, someone can get ahead of the game. And so Hill demonstrated – he put his Arrows third in qualifying at Hungary, just 0.372sec off pole-sitter Michael Schumacher. From 20th on the grid and 5.347sec off the pace is Australia, that was some mark-up."
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“I’m almost bursting into laughter by this point,” Hill told Sky Sports in 2020. “I’ve just overtaken Michael Schumacher in a Ferrari, and I’m in an Arrows, and I’m leading a grand prix. I just couldn’t believe it!
Good for you Damon, Good for you
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paper fossil
Such a ridiculous comment
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Such a ridiculous comment
Actually it isn't, he deserved that. Why you do think he wasn't able to win it? Michael wasn't his tyres were crap.
“The [Ferrari’s] Goodyears were just too soft and they were graining up like hell and causing him all sorts of grief,” Hill told Adam Cooper in 2003. “So he was a sitting duck, really. Except that this was Hungary, a track virtually impossible to pass on.”
It was a great drive for Damon. Stop acting like a big baby about it
paper fossil
It was a drive you would expext
But it isn’t off the planet
For the circumstances that allowed for it
This was back when tyres had to be selected for the race after practice
Tbh a great rule
That race was excellent
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paper fossil
It is way too simple to go omg wow what an amazing drive from Damon
The race has more to it
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It is way too simple to go omg wow what an amazing drive from Damon
Ikr, it was so complex, but how he got an Arrows on a podium is something else
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Disagree
That's alright though, he still got the podium haha
"It would be the last podium an Arrows would ever score, and Barnard views it very much as a sliding doors moment for a team which would go into administration and close its doors five years later."
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But rather pointless
for you?
probably
everything goes over your head
Take a read
paper fossil
Nice so Barnard fixed the car lmao
Well done Damon for doing that
Bro it was literally as Damon stated
Nice to drive
Just safe
It worked perfectly in Hungary
You don’t have a driver perform so exceptionally to do that and then immediately be brought down back to earth in the following races without a reason
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You don’t have a driver perform so exceptionally to do that and then immediately...
i mean his teamate didn't
he qualifed p19 or something
Hill had a remarkable weekend and definitely will not be forgotten
paper fossil
Yeah because Diniz is fucking garbage
I never said he was great
The fact he could sometimes be closer to Hill or beat him until something out of his hand stopped him makes it look bad for Hill
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Where did he finish?
paper fossil
0.7% from Hill in quali
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Exactly
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You need to stop I can't keep laughing this hard
paper fossil
I literally answered that
Bro just can’t be arsed reading
“Hill, a Budapest specialist, always went well at the circuit, and the A18’s underpowered Yamaha engine was less of a disadvantage on the tight and twisty circuit.”
“Coupled with the fact that the Bridgestone compound proved much more pliable than the softer compounds some of the Goodyear teams chose, Arrows suddenly had a decent race car on its hands.”
“When you get a tyre that works with that surface, then you’re away,” emphasises Barnard.
paper fossil
You need to stop I can't keep laughing this hard
Right so I said Diniz is closer to Hill in races than he was in quali
He was on average 0.7% off in quali
0.4% off in the race
Like bro
Can you read
Just have the fucking spreadsheet lmao
round swift
Right so I said Diniz is closer to Hill in races than he was in quali
i can read. you said he was better in races. no, he never beat damon in most races.
paper fossil
I said he was better to hill in the races
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I said he was better to hill in the races
Nope
Hill still finished ahead of him
what is ur point
paper fossil
Wgat
Fgs
No
He was better to hill in the races than he was in quali
On avg pace
paper fossil
Fgs can you understand that
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do better
paper fossil
Lmao
I provide facts
Opinions from jounros
And all you have said is no
That is a you issue
Look fine
You can believe what you want
But if i see more bollocks from you here I will just call it out
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You can believe what you want
I believe in the facts, and the facts say that Damon won the race
paper fossil
I could literally get my friend to call out bollocks as well and heck you wouldn’t want to debate him
He knows loads of shit
paper fossil
Same for you
Some of the stuff you have said here is funny
I literally gave you avg pace statistics and you have been like yeah I’m not believing that
Lmao
We also covered the 1993 McLaren as well before lmao
And you just ignored stuff like Senna being on 16 mil a year contract hampering their development
Etc
None of that avg pace stuff was done by me anyway
Things like the Bridgestone tyres advantage across the weekend in Hungary etc literally has come from other people
The only opinion I provided was that I just don’t believe Hill was that great as a driver overall and he was one of the worst world champions
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And you just ignored stuff like Senna being on 16 mil a year contract hampering ...
What was there to hamper? There chassis was as good as Williams, the problem was the engine. The horsepower numbers were down. They were still a better team inn 1993 than they were in 1992.
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Things like the Bridgestone tyres advantage across the weekend in Hungary etc li...
And Damon was a prime example of getting a podium in a piece of junk F1 car
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The only opinion I provided was that I just don’t believe Hill was that great as...
I could say the same thing to Villeneuve and I did
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I literally gave you avg pace statistics and you have been like yeah I’m not bel...
pace stats doesn't show me jacksquat. Its where they start compared to where they finished. Diniz rarely finished in the points IF that. Damon almost always finished races in higher positions than his teamate.
round swift
Some of the stuff you have said here is funny
What is funny of what I said? I'm literally telling you quotes and websites of articles proving to me why Hill deserved that podium in Hungary. You keep saying that the Ferraris tyres were shit and he shouldve had more of a challenge, but that is when Damon excelled. I've never seen Villeneuve do that in a piece of junk F1 car. Never.
paper fossil
What was there to hamper? There chassis was as good as Williams, the problem was...
Development of the car
In general
paper fossil
They had a better chassis and electronics than Williams at the start of 1993
Williams further added to their car
round swift
All of these articles are saying Villeneuve was worst champion than Hill
paper fossil
And as much as horsepower was a good thing it was also the packaging
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I agree with them, because its the truth and its factual
paper fossil
They were able to run more wing
paper fossil
I agree with them, because its the truth and its factual
I disagree
round swift
Ok?
paper fossil
As a driver overall I think Villeneuve is better
paper fossil
I will later
round swift
Gladly
paper fossil
This shit has Keke Rosberg at 32
round swift
They had a better chassis and electronics than Williams at the start of 1993
But they were 80-100 horsepower down on the Renaults
paper fossil
Fuck off immediately
round swift
Dude calm down
paper fossil
What is this
round swift
your opinion got you mad?
paper fossil
Who made this
Bleacher report
Lmao
Yeah I want some more credible motorsport journos here
Rosberg isn’t close to the worst world champion
round swift
"The original "Flying Finn"—although he was born in Sweden—Keke Rosberg won his only world title in 1982. He only had one other really good season in F1, when he finished third in the 1985 championship, behind Alain Prost and Michele Alboreto.
Interestingly, Rosberg had more wins (two) in 1985 than he did in his championship season (one). In fact, five drivers won more races in 1982 than Rosberg did, though he edged John Watson and Didier Pironi for the title.
Other than being the first Scandinavian to win a world championship, Rosberg's career does not really stand out. For example, his five victories leave him tied for 45th on the all-time list.
In short, Rosberg did not possess the consistency, nor the longevity, that distinguishes the truly exceptional drivers."
paper fossil
Ah nice 1982
Where Mclaren
Ferrari
And Renault
All had faster cars
Like Prost has had praise for Rosberg
So have others including his own employers
He’s better than more people here I’m afraid
round swift
Bleacher report
You can search up different websites yourself if you're in disagreement
paper fossil
Ranking him low because of the lack of wins and 1982 is dumb
round swift
We all have different opinions on drivers
paper fossil
Some are very ill informed I’m afraid
round swift
But when the statistics come out, they really show about a certain driver
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We all have different opinions on drivers
.
paper fossil
It isn’t that simple
round swift
Was a good season aside from the deaths
paper fossil
And even myself or anyone else who is an observer
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like i said, your opinion but i totally understand
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For sure
paper fossil
And certainly pulling put certain stats can be ridiculous
They can be meaningless with context
round swift
they seem pretty normal to me
Five different statistics will be included in this ranking.
Winning Percentage: Percentage of starts won.
Points-Per-Start: This is adjusted so that all drivers are scored according to the system used from 1991 to 2002, with points to the top six finishers in each race (10-6-4-3-2-1).
Number of Seasons: The number of seasons in which the driver started at least 50 percent of the races.
Championship Percentage: Percentage of seasons (as defined above) where the driver won the world championship.
Pole Percentage: Percentage of starts where the driver qualified on pole.
round swift
True, Qualifying doesn't mean much
paper fossil
Championship percentage nah
round swift
Winning Percentage I would choose over Qualifying
paper fossil
Still wouldn’t
Comparison to teammates
Avg pace
Comparison to other competitors in era
You can have all the other stats sure
But meh
I would just value a collective of opinions from experienced journos, drivers, staff etc
Because then there is some weight to it
And most of it comments on the approach a driver had to racing
How they operated etc
An overall package
Not looking for the quickest driver of all time
round swift
I would just value a collective of opinions from experienced journos, drivers, s...
Yes thats why I sent that website link regarding to Damons hill Podium finish
paper fossil
Yes and some of it gave praise to hill
Some of it talked about other factors
The whole original point was about Hill as a driver
Overall for me he wasn’t consistently at a high level
He could rock up in Hungary and do a great performance with a bit of luck but it didn’t count for everywhere
round swift
Overall for me he wasn’t consistently at a high level
and overall to me is that villeneuve wasn't as good as a racing driver as Hill
paper fossil
For me he is better but is nowhere near the elite
round swift
Put them in a good F1 car and watch them do good, but put them in bad F1 car and watch them exceed.
paper fossil
Yes
Which Villeneuve and Hill have both done
I just think Villeneuve did it more
I just think as a whole driver package Villeneuve is better
round swift
I believed Hill had more memorable drives and top finishes (and one win)
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1996 Monaco
paper fossil
Yeah unfortunately his fault
round swift
Whos fault?
paper fossil
He has even said he should have never tried that
Should have waited
I mean as I said anyway
That race should have never decided the title
round swift
and Europeon 97
paper fossil
Senna full pelt on the gas went into Prost in 1990 Japan
Behind Prost
And took a year to admit it
Having lied to Jackie Stewart
Europe 1997 fully on Michael
One of the worst things he’s done
1994 Australia for me isn’t close
round swift
He defended his corner
Former F1 driver Jonathan Palmer and pit reporter Barry Sheene both claimed that the crash was entirely Schumacher's fault.
paper fossil
I disagree
I think it a lunge from Hill he should have never made
Schumacher was right to defend the corner
paper fossil
What is funny of what I said? I'm literally telling you quotes and websites of a...
It wasn’t a piece of junk that weekend though
Which is the main point
If it was he would have been where he usually was
round swift
It wasn’t a piece of junk that weekend though
Same F1 car. Bad tyres for the competition. Still outqualified his teammate and eventually got rewarded with a podium with his unprecedented driving because of the competitions bad tyres.
plucky sierra
I think it a lunge from Hill he should have never made
He had all the rights to do it
Schumacher just shutted the door
Or he never looked to his mirrors
past drift
He had all the rights to do it
because you can doesn't mean you should
plucky sierra
because you can doesn't mean you should
There's a title fight on the table
Would you just let go your championship rival when he has made a mistake
That might of cost him the title
Personally I wouldn't let it slide
past drift
if you read the race properly, you would notice something is off cause you gain lots of ground in very little time
which indicates a mistake you couldn't see
plucky sierra
That pretty much doesn't make up an excuse for that shunt
past drift
if there's damage, you will breeze past at the next straight
if there isn't, you know the driver is under pressure and might commit more mistakes
plucky sierra
You're talking like both were not even under pressure
Under normal conditions
Daily stuff
past drift
what i;m saying is, with more experience (it was Hill's 2nd full season only) he would have gotten the title in 94
and everyone would be pissed at that, because Schumacher was the better driver
so we'd have arguments about the FIA
paper fossil
No
past drift
Well Lewis won his title on his second year
with a much more professionalising rising
paper fossil
Same F1 car. Bad tyres for the competition. Still outqualified his teammate and ...
Sure same car but better suited to the track
It’s performance suggests so
You can’t extract anything more out of a car than it’s potential
You can appear to have done so by circumstances out of your control most often
Like fundamentally that weekend the car was good
And Hill always liked the Hungaroring
It would take the poor ability and inconsistency of someone like Diniz to have it further down the grid but yet he still on like 3 occasions outqualified Hill and was very unlucky in Austria given his pace across the weekend
Panis managed to do the same thing with Bridgestones in races like Brazil, Argentina and Spain with the graining
Trulli as a rookie came in and was leading the Austrian GP for all of the first stint
But the Jordans and Saubers were probably better cars
fast fulcrum
with a much more professionalising rising
Lewis was certainly groomed, and i say this as a biased lewis fan
Every single driver is pretty much that groomed now, the sport is different
knotty mantle
I have a rare onboard buy sadly copyright
paper fossil
Yeah well Lewis managed to have such a great 07
But then limped home in 08
It is quite amazing
Tbf there was a few chinks in the armour for Lewis in 07
round swift
Sure same car but better suited to the track
I have a different take on this. Although the track was well-designed and the Arrows F1 car performed admirably, it lacked the downforce and top speed required to compete on the circuit. Damon Hill overtook his competitors not on straight stretches but during curves and braking, as evidenced by his move against Michael. It wasn't so much that the car was inappropriate as the other drivers' tyres were failing, leaving them unable to resist Hill's advances.
round swift
It would take the poor ability and inconsistency of someone like Diniz to have i...
In Formula One, it's critical to distinguish between outqualifying and outscoring. While a great qualifying position does not directly transfer to points, a good racing result does. In this perspective, it's worth remembering that Diniz could have been better at qualifying, as he only scored points on race day once all season.
round swift
But the Jordans and Saubers were probably better cars
In the 1997 Formula One season, it was clear that the Jordan car outperformed the Sauber car. This was evident from the overall points and positions achieved by both teams during the season. Despite the Jordan car only finishing in 8th place in the constructor's championship, Damon Hill's masterful driving skills led to a podium finish. To bad Diniz only was able to get p5 after passing Panis in his first race back after breaking his legs in Canada.
round swift
Panis managed to do the same thing with Bridgestones in races like Brazil, Argen...
Possibly because the Prost team was better than Arrows, scoring more points over the season and finishing P6 in the constructors, also their best season ever in F1.
However, it should not be underestimated that Hill deserved the podium finish based on his performance, which was the best among all drivers.
"Defending World Champion Hill, who had been having a poor year in the uncompetitive and unreliable Arrows". It also had the fastest lap in practice after sitting out with a gearbox issue. Despite having a difficult year due to the uncompetitive and unreliable nature of his car, Hill showed his skills by setting the fastest lap in practice after missing out on track time due to a gearbox issue. During the race, he maintained a comfortable 35-second lead over the second-placed driver, and was likely to win the race had it not been for his teammate's retirement. Therefore, Hill's achievement should be acknowledged as a remarkable feat.
round swift
Damon Hill's performance at the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix was also unquestionably one of the high points of his racing career. Hill began third on the grid driving for the Jordan team, outqualifying his teammate Ralf and the two Ferraris. Hill showed terrific pace and commitment throughout the race, eventually grabbing the lead after Schumacher crashed into the back of Coulthard. This extraordinary performance was even more remarkable because Hill's car had technical problems and lost power steering earlier in the race.
Hill's win in the Belgium Grand Prix demonstrated his driving aptitude and ability to produce under pressure. It was also a notable accomplishment for the Jordan team, known for being the underdog and frequently struggling to compete with more established sports teams. Hill's performance at the 1998 Belgian Grand Prix showcased his talent and commitment, and it remains one of the most memorable moments in Formula One racing history.
round swift
Senna in 4k
The one I set above is the highest quality I could ever find of Senna. You can see the setup tv screen in his eyes!
paper fossil
In Formula One, it's critical to distinguish between outqualifying and outscorin...
My man I have literally sent you his average race pace to Hill
He was closer in races than qualifying
paper fossil
I have a different take on this. Although the track was well-designed and the Ar...
It is literally a well known fact that the reason Damon was able to make that move so easily was because of Michaels destroyed Goodyear compound
Hill never made a similar move in his career like that
Not certainly on someone like Schumacher
paper fossil
In the 1997 Formula One season, it was clear that the Jordan car outperformed th...
What lmao
This shit looks like it was said by a bot in chatgpt
What the fuck are you talking about
I think we can end there
round swift
He was closer in races than qualifying
Yes but Hill still outscored him during races, which makes that irrelevant. It is critical to take a comprehensive view of the competition and consider all relevant factors.
round swift
It is literally a well known fact that the reason Damon was able to make that mo...
That is correct, but Damon surpassed Schumacher for a variety of reasons, including his ability to identify and exploit weaknesses in his opponents' performance, as well as his mastery of handling his vehicle in a variety of conditions.
round swift
This shit looks like it was said by a bot in chatgpt
Nah it's just you I think, reread if you're confused lol
I think we can end there
paper fossil
Yes but Hill still outscored him during races, which makes that irrelevant. It i...
Not to the point you made
paper fossil
That is correct, but Damon surpassed Schumacher for a variety of reasons, includ...
That is just a bunch of shit
When you have massively better tyres you will have the sufficient pace to pass someone
It is also worth remembering Frentzen was looking good for the win himself before a car failure
round swift
Not to the point you made
My point was that Diniz wasn't able to beat Damon period. Sure he was able to qualify higher, but Damon still had the race pace to fight for points.
paper fossil
I mean if we look at the times Arrows scored points it was when the Bridgestones came into their own or because of benefactors like other peoples car failures
Diniz did it once and should have done so in Austria as well
round swift
That is just a bunch of shit
It's literally not. Damon drove to perfection.
paper fossil
Hill did so twice
paper fossil
It's literally not. Damon drove to perfection.
He drove well
Like I should expect a world champion to do so
round swift
I guess every driver drives well
round swift
It was one of his best drives
paper fossil
Not hard
paper fossil
Japan 1994 would be above
round swift
paper fossil
My point was that Diniz wasn't able to beat Damon period. Sure he was able to qu...
The point was that outqualifying and outscoring were different
Sure
round swift
The point was that outqualifying and outscoring were different
That's what I said too
paper fossil
But I count avg pace in there as well
And it is literally a fact he was closer in races
round swift
But I count avg pace in there as well
No thats irrelevant
paper fossil
Lol
round swift
Who cares about that
paper fossil
Sorry mate
paper fossil
My man there is literally a website
For it
Stop being flippant
Avg pace
Head to head
Not looking at points
I never said Diniz was better than Hill
I said on occasion he could beat him
round swift
I know there is, you sent it, and i went through it. It told me that he was still worst than Hill in Qualifying and in-Race.
paper fossil
Yes
round swift
Literally leant nothing from that
paper fossil
I never made a point he was better though
round swift
I'm saying Damon was better
paper fossil
The point was that you made it out Diniz was closer in quali
But he wasn’t
So I sent that
I said Diniz beating Hill on occasion was a bad reflection on Hill at times
But Diniz was still inconsistent as fuck
round swift
The point was that you made it out Diniz was closer in quali
Diniz was still as bad in Qualifying as in races
paper fossil
And nowhere near his level
paper fossil
You have just repeated my point