SOP and UCMJ Overhaul (Pending Community Feedback before Merge)

[hollow condor]

Before we start here's the following CODE changes along with this PR.
Adjutant is being removed as a JO kit and will become XO as a job in menu, their rank being 1st Lt with no rank ups (refer to @solid plinth if you disagree)
JO kit limits were MERGED, limiting it to 1 adjutant (scrapped) 2 IO's 2 SO's and 1 or 2 EO's (I need to look at code for EO)

SOP Changes

All SOP changes stated below:

Command Rule Changes

JO's will NO LONGER be able to take special weapons, or operate vehicles (EO exempt from this rule if no vehicle crew or commander present)
EO has SOLE authority over Engineering, Ord Techs, and any type of ship side weapon system (ship to ship, ship to ground, etc), only CO may override this authority
Adj. Is the direct next in line for command, if there is no Adj. present, refer to standard CoC Succession rules (highest rank)
CMO (JO kit) Has sole authority over Medical and research, only CO may override this authority
CMP (JO Kit) Has sole authority over Brig, only CO may override this authority

Command arrests

When arresting a member of command (CO, XO, JOs) a facsimile must sent to the marshal office before hand with a DETAILED report with reasoning. A response is not required to proceed with the arrest. Once a fax has been sent the CMP (if presents) must be present for the arrest and one other MP. The command member must be read their rights in its entirety and if they are the commander of the operation they are given 10 minutes to hand over command properly. This may be EXTENDED in emergency situations (i.e. shipside emergencies).

UCMJ Changes

Minor Crimes

Negligent Use of Resources (NUR)
Using, Purchasing, or Dispensing resources not to the benefit of the operation, this includes and is not limited to, spending req funds, taking limited resources (i,e, spec weapons) then needed, or claiming multiple assets without the ability to manage them all (i,e, an EO taking sole responsibility of all humvees)
Punishment: 5 minute brig

[hollow condor]

regards DPs and NUR

[pliant gyro]

I like what’s here so far. Personally though, we really need to give MPs the ability to declare DNRs. So many extremely violent (often LRP too) prisoners break out and grab the nearest weapon only to get gunned down and…revived and put back in. Why? Fuck that DNR em.

[hollow condor]

No, DNRs are only allowed for suicides

[pliant gyro]

Maybe the issue is just Lrp prisoners who punch walls no matter what but it is impossible to handle when 20 prisoners are brought in for a brig that can hold maybe 8

[hasty trail]

CMP and CMO don’t exist, why’d you draft them just curious.

[hollow condor]

adding them

[visual edge]

Suicide by cop

[hollow condor]

Cant DNR

Suicide via your own actions

not tryna attack someone

[hasty trail]

I’d ask before you do that I heard something about role bloat and then being unnecessary therefore they shouldn’t be added

[hollow condor]

(i.e. OD)

[hollow condor]

I got permission to make CMP and CMO as JO kits and XO as a job

[hasty trail]

Oh?

Never mind then.

Weird random decision change.

[hollow condor]

i made my argument on their use and need

[pliant gyro]

Idk maybe if straight jackets drop which you can’t break out of it’ll be solved but it’s a real issue rn

[waxen mica]

I don't understand why the pilots have so much authority and power; not even the commander can contradict them, and they can do whatever they want. Bro, you're a pilot, not the emperor of humanity.

[hollow condor]

this just isnt true....?

define "do whatever" as thats very vague

[waxen mica]

you know what i mean

dont act

we talk about this some days ago in chat general

[hollow condor]

No I dont as im reading SOP word for word

what makes you say this

[hasty trail]

just like ahelp bro

💔

[hollow condor]

^

i dont see the issue as if you, idk, read SOP

they arent

[waxen mica]

i will execute him better

[hollow condor]

executions arebanned

[hasty trail]

dude just ground them and beat them to death

[waxen mica]

banned doest mean u cant

[hasty trail]

I’ll just spawn as high command and execute them myself

[hollow condor]

its againts the rules to violate SOP as a command member

so

yes

you cant

[gentle locust]

There’s 1 IO, 1 EO, 1 AO/XO, the rest sre staff officers

[waxen mica]

i still can do it

[hollow condor]

ty

[hasty trail]

Honestly could you just change EO to be a generalized officer to encompass Logistics and Engineering

[gentle locust]

Ffs this reads like a 1:1 copy of upstream. Real original

[hasty trail]

Not sure what term you’d use

[tough sorrel]

JO's will NO LONGER be able to take special weapons, or operate vehicles (EO exempt from this rule if no vehicle crew or commander present) I am fine with JOs not having wep specs but They shouldnt be bared from operating vics IO might need one for intel

EO has SOLE authority over Req, Engineering, Ord Techs, and any type of ship side weapon system (ship to ship, ship to ground, etc), only CO may override this authority
No you just created an LO or QM. Req techs should have authority over req as they have been given access to manage all of those munitions
XO Is the direct next in line for command, if there is no XO present, refer to standard CoC Succession rules (highest rank)
XO is not needed. we have staff officers and Adjutants

CMO (JO kit) Has sole authority over Medical and research, only CO may override this authority
as a CMO main I rather enjoy seeing that theres no overall doc in charge. They are all officers and should work together they dont need a babysitter
CMP (JO Kit) Has sole authority over Brig, only CO may override this authority
no its role bloat and takes away from what JO can do. It feels like JOs dont have much to do because they always intel when we dont have intel yet. When we do that will change.

[hollow condor]

i havent even read RMC SOP

[hasty trail]

But honestly it would make more sense

[gentle locust]

I mean the role bloat

[hasty trail]

the humble Mess Officer 💔💔💔

[hollow condor]

JOs cannot CLAIM vehicles as theirs, humvees are for infantry use, APC and tanks for vehicle crew use

Req techs are not officers also if a req tech makes a bad decision or needs assitance who are they gonna ask? Advisors arent common.

XO is being added

CMO, ok sure

CMP is needed for MP oversight and reporting

[hasty trail]

I am not bound by SOP… I am… John Mess.

[hasty trail]

Oh how is Provost going to be factored in, Provost still exists for us.

[hollow condor]

Provost was factored in for command arrests

[tough sorrel]

MPs dont need oversite as literally everyone with 2nd LT and above have to follow SOP and UCMJ thus anyone in those ranks have authority over them.

[gentle locust]

@solid plinth we don’t need a new xo role (the adjutant already is marked as), we also have the section sergeant which is still in the code but unused/hidden

Look at the JO vendor

[hollow condor]

looks at my 4 CO arrests and 7 JO arrests

blinks

yeah, fuck no

[tough sorrel]

well ahelp those because its against server rules like what?

CO is an HRP role

if people are breaking it report it

[gentle locust]

Cmo/cmp slopppp

I’m gonna exit I have nothing constructive to add

[hasty trail]

Might as well just spawn myself as a UCMJ Justice at this point

and personally just kill the Chain of Command.🥹

[gentle locust]

Oh yeah we all got to see that many times

[tough sorrel]

Req techs are not officers also if a req tech makes a bad decision or needs assitance who are they gonna ask? Advisors arent common.

They dont need to be officers but they have been granted special access to cargo. If they need help you can help them, you dont have to be a mentor to assist people anyone can do it. No admin will take an ahelp seriously if you are spending time teaching a new player what to do. Its better for the server. Yes Mentors should and I have been trying to spend more time as a mentor.

[hasty trail]

Oh yeah reminds me, I was actually going to do something adding UCMJ stuff, being they just use marine uniforms after all. Could be factored in if someone wanted to actually hold a trial. Someone remind me of this later.

[hasty trail]

Technically Synths kind of can act as a logistic officer temporally if need be, given they have have the access and ability

Am I wrong?

[tough sorrel]

Yes a synth can help out as well.

[hasty trail]

While they cannot give orders they can act somewhat.

In said position.

[hollow condor]

okay after discussion

Techs will become warrant officers and will be in charge of req souly, however in SOP it will be written that officers may not order technicians about REQ RELATED MATTERS, SO's may ask for certain things be pruchased but techs are in soul command

[lethal quiver]

????????

[hasty trail]

this probably won’t be the best idea a

[lethal quiver]

that seems like a really bad idea

[hasty trail]

Req is going to end up turning into a. dictatorship

And they are gonna start killing peoples who enter

[lethal quiver]

we do not need cargonia

[jovial slate]

req is incharge of req
(Acting) CO can still tell them to do shit

[hasty trail]

never give cargo more power then they need

[hollow condor]

?!

[hasty trail]

next thing you know the commander is decapitated by the techs and they take sole power

don’t let it get to their head…

[jovial slate]

thats just gonna land em with a perma req ban if they are that passionate

[hasty trail]

honestly just allow the XO to take control of Requisitions as an administrative overview

[static plinth]

I feel like having the JO kits in general makes no sense whatsoever.

[hasty trail]

They still technically have that administrative oversight as an adjutant.

[static plinth]

at that point, just make it into a job.

[hasty trail]

Role Bloat is the main reason they don’t wanna do that.

[static plinth]

otherwise, people will rush as JO to grab their kits.

[hollow condor]

same thing as rolling?

[stone viper]

bloat

[tough sorrel]

TBH I like the kits but I think they should be limited so theres not 4 IOs being RFN+

[hasty trail]

Honestly like I said, couldn’t you just make the XO have oversight on requisitions dude, after all the Adjutants whole job in actuality is Administrative Duty and Management of the Ship

While the Commander does the actual commanding

[tough sorrel]

I dont want an xo, I want my SOs and ADJs do fill that gap

[hasty trail]

Staff Officers have their squads and what not

[static plinth]

anything not to be parity huh

[hollow condor]

so troy asked me to reanme XO job to Adjutant

[hasty trail]

Advisors are helping new people

[hollow condor]

so Adjutant is becoming a job

rather then kit

[hollow condor]

kits are already limited in game

[hasty trail]

XO and Adjutant’s really are just the same

[hollow condor]

its just being renamed

[hasty trail]

Their actual job are the same anyway

[tough sorrel]

They are not. you can just go an take one from your vendor as a JO.

[hollow condor]

Adjutant is becoming a job instad of kit

[hollow condor]

yes its limited, if its not make a #1412224462106923049 and ping potato

[hasty trail]

Why not just keep it as an Executive Officer job name ?

Adjutant could be overly like

Underestimate

[solid plinth]

Specifically for XO I want it to be a seperate role so that people are enticed to roll for it directly. We have an issue with poor command currently, so the more dedicated command rolling options, the better.

90% of the time if the CO leaves or dies, command is just fucked.

[tough sorrel]

ok so it was added 10 hours ago

could lead with that

[hasty trail]

Mess Officer is the Commander is disguise…

Honestly how would a Mess Officer properly be filled in, not the right thread for this but still LOL.

[tough sorrel]

MO is just a WJ with a chef hat

[hasty trail]

brigadier general of nutrition

[tough sorrel]

gods chosen MO

[hollow condor]

please keep it on topic.......

[hasty trail]

If you’re making adjustments to the UCMJ could you underline proper like

serving times

for crimes

[hollow condor]

its already in???

[hasty trail]

and what can be stacked

no like it’s non-descriptive

[pliant gyro]

you can stack until it reaches 30 iirc

[tough sorrel]

Are COs not leaving their tablets out when they go SSD?

[hasty trail]

Case A:
Can Johnny CLF get stacked crimes for cannibalizing a rifleman and bombing someone.

[pliant gyro]

thats just perma

[tough sorrel]

That would literaly be a crime against humanity

so its just perma anyways

[hasty trail]

just a pat on the back

don’t do that little Johnny

No but really, it should be underlined what crimes MPs can stack timewise just for discrepancy sake

[pliant gyro]

every capital crime is perma here is no exception to that

[solid plinth]

Not always, but we also just lack JOs interested in doing command, which is fair considering half of the kits are not command related.

[pliant gyro]

if it major or minor you can stack them until its 30 and then its just 30

[tough sorrel]

100% on the command JO part.

[hasty trail]

I feel we generally should have a clause where an officer has the capability of fielding to a FOB

if the situation comes to that

There’s been a couple times where that would be needed, but to due it being a crime it cannot be done.

They have all this shit for ground side command but they aren’t allowed to do so

Ex: the entire command vehicle

To my knowledge it doesn’t exist?

@hollow condor Wait what rank would a CMO be, doctors legit outrank JOs do they not?.

[hollow condor]

its a JO kit

so

their JO rank

lol

[hasty trail]

I mean I guesss

Role Authority over Rank

But still

💔

[hasty trail]

Honestly could you like make Doctors O1 starting off instead of O2

Oh wait

This was fixed never mind

[hollow condor]

docs can promote to O2 i think

[hasty trail]

a O4 Doctor outranking the Commander 🥹

Think it caps at O2 lmfao.

[hollow condor]

it does

[hasty trail]

Are those in the rank prototype, sorry to throw feedback off curious rq

Where even is that stuff located

[hollow condor]

this file path, open the job you want

[hasty trail]

OHHH

[static plinth]

I got a question. Are all JOs trained in police?

if so

remove that shit

[hasty trail]

they have police 1 if I’m not wrong

[hollow condor]

no

[hasty trail]

which allows basic cuffing

[hollow condor]

yes

[hasty trail]

Reminds me I gotta sync my fork , thanks.

[static plinth]

You know this encourages people to valid hunt any arrests if they want to be a shitter, right? But, if this (Hopefully what I think it is) discourages SOs in general to not be conducting arrests on marines, I'll be happy.

[hollow condor]

sir

[dull lance]

Woah we r an ENG server

Whatnow.

[hasty trail]

NRP+

[static plinth]

oh, yeah we're MRP+++++ GUYS!

WE'RE SO RP'FUL!

WOAH

WOAH

[stone viper]

true...

[hollow condor]

if someone is being arrested for a valid crime that they did in deed commit and theres evidence of this. What is the issue

[dull lance]

In general LRP MRP HRP r madeup terms that both communities fell for whatever reason

Ur either RP or NRP

Theres no middle areas

[solid plinth]

If you commit a crime and you're arrested for it, thats not valid hunting... they're just enforcing the laws as intended. You can't really valid hunt arrests.

[hasty trail]

son how’d we get so off topic

Honestly I could see an Executive Officer carrying out assistance with arrests

[dull lance]

Idk sonny would u like to share ur opinion

[static plinth]

no, i'm saying as JOs. I've seen pilots and officers actively seek out to arrest a marine if they broke a law infront of them

[hasty trail]

Administration and all is a decently not fine line.

[static plinth]

when they should be letting the MPs do it

[solid plinth]

Yeah, they're supposed to be able to do that

[stone viper]

by sops, anyone can detain

[solid plinth]

They can detain them and hand them off to MPs.

[hollow condor]

any officer or SL is allowed to perform an rrest if no MPs are present

[hasty trail]

Good Samaritan

[hollow condor]

if theres an MP present then they should do it

if MPs are unavilable then again, any officer or SL

[hasty trail]

Synthetics also act as a MP even if there’s a MP present which has completely gone to be never mentioned EVER.

[solid plinth]

There is an MP synth subclass.

[dull lance]

Formal arrest and detainment r 2 different things

Officers and NCOs can order detainment

Arrests r done by le commanding officers and carried off by MPs

[solid plinth]

Officers can detain and hand offs to MPs, they cannot book.

If they are booking people, MPs should arrest them

[hasty trail]

Aren’t synthetics allowed to book?

Adding to another party…

[dull lance]

Why the fuck would they be

😂

[solid plinth]

Yes, they're able to complete any role on the ship.

[hasty trail]

Thought so, unsure why people believe synthetic are incapable of doing anything.

[dull lance]

Y so

[solid plinth]

Because thats what a synth is.

They're a jack of all trades.

[tough sorrel]

God help the man who gets booked by the unfeeling machine that will 100% throw the book at you

[solid plinth]

Its a WL role for a reason.

[dull lance]

Yeah they serve in supportive roles though

Law Enforcement is a completely different topic

[solid plinth]

Law Enforcement is a supporting role.

MPs fall under auxiliary.

[dull lance]

Just because its a WL role doesnt mean you should powercreep it

[hasty trail]

They have specialization for military police for a reason and get acres to police equipment.

[solid plinth]

Its never been powercreeped, its been like this since day one.

[hasty trail]

As generation three synthetics they get those abilities.

To make lawful judgment

[solid plinth]

The whitelistees are just good about not taking peoples jobs without reason.

[dull lance]

I wouldn't call MPs a supportive role

[solid plinth]

Any role that is not combat arms is auxiliary support.

[dull lance]

R we arguing this from the server pov

[solid plinth]

From the SOP/UCMJ/in-character point of view.

And not real UCMJ, ours does not intend to mimic real UCMJ one for one.

[dull lance]

Ig

[drifting compass]

it was limited beefore server ended

oh wait i'm late

[gentle locust]

Its capped at 1, thanks to potatoed

[gentle locust]

I understand, though I stand by the the kit system for that.

It’s not random it’s coordinated, you can spawn in and just chatter with the other officers who is taking what role and perhaps even at the behest of the commander themself.

The problem you mentioned, has been lessened by limiting 1 IO/EO and the rest are either staffers or an XO

Rushing the vendor for that single IO kit is just shitter behaviour

The good officers literally communicate who is doing what ahead of operation start

[tough sorrel]

It should have been this from the start

[hollow condor]

??

why

[solid plinth]

Nah.

There can be multiple EOs.

[hollow condor]

no

[hollow condor]

@solid plinth govfor is suppose to follow Geneva convention right

or whatever we decided to call it

and I remember you telling me synths are granted human rights (mainly to prevent them getting physically abused for no reason)

Or @jovial slate

[finite palm]

btw

yeah make sure you get like them to review this extensively

due to it falling onto admin workload etc etc depending on whats written.

[hollow condor]

Troy wanted me to get community feedback before writing the PR

[hollow condor]

Just take out following SOP as a rule

[finite palm]

that isnt happening.

only command and synths need to follow it.

and thats for a good reason

[finite palm]

evergreen attempted to propose the command not being required to follow SOP and it got backlash from troy, staff and players.

#polls message

refer to this

[quick portal]

will CO have its time requirements increased then?

[atomic cosmos]

Yeah like if someone is an Lrp sweat it’s actually really annoying to trap them in a cell and remove handcuffs without them running past you through the open door and being a pain in the ass

[hollow condor]

Because I got into an internet argument, and I don’t lose those, I will be writing our own Geneva convention

[quick portal]

true shit

[hollow condor]

it will be a capital crime if you break it

[hollow wren]

I mean it won the pole tho

By a hefty margin

[dull lance]

Yea and id assume most people failed to see the "no admin enforcement" part

But its w/e

[simple root]

im gonna be really honest with the CMP thing

we're going to get a dipshit JO who's just looking to push authority and is going to fuck with MPs for the sole sake of fucking with MPs

it already happens so often with JOs

walking into brig and just doing whatever and screaming at MPs who want them to fuck off so they can do their job

[simple root]

Hello, MP here!

Regarding DNRs, you don't really need to order them.

Kill -> Cuff -> Revive -> Repeat

MPs can already order DNRs, and they will be followed more often than not without any issue.

I think CMP is generally just going to become griefing tools because nobody plays JO to be an MP.

but maybe i'll be wrong

[pliant gyro]

I understand this is the current process, my only question is why is it this way? What does repeatedly having to kill prisoners who are shitters achieve?

Totally unnecessary

[simple root]

You only have to do it twice or so.

Then you can just say "Ight don't revive that one"

Is it technically murder? Sure, but I don't think you'll find anyone who'll arrest you for it.

I've done it plenty of times, some with admins present, and have yet to get hit for it.

[pliant gyro]

My point is this is not addressed in UCMJ at all and it looks like a major oversight. Unless we're intentionally supposed to just be breaking it because it seems that way

[simple root]

I meannn.

The law is written on paper. And the world isn't flat or black and white.

[pliant gyro]

Look if we gotta do the "shoot his head off twice with a shotgun and then illegally declare DNR" something is very very wrong

because I HAVE done that and I do

you literally have to

it needs to change

[simple root]

It won't change until prisoners stop trying to escape.

And that will simply never happen.

[hollow condor]

DNRs are illegal however you can still do them

[simple root]

Yeah.

[pliant gyro]

Well

[simple root]

They are illegal, but if you have a good enough reason, nobody will arrest you for it.

[pliant gyro]

noted

[simple root]

I issue them all the time as GOVFOR.

[pliant gyro]

why not just make it legal...?

[simple root]

Just how it goes.

[simple root]

That'd require removing the clause that says we need to give captured combatants care

which essentially gives free reign to mass DNR all hostile combatants

[hollow condor]

Just don’t be the CO or JO and it’s fine

[pliant gyro]

I disagree. We could simply add a clause for repeat violent offenders and those who prove unable to be contained

Well or that

if that is the official answer I will take that. I don't think any CO or JO would disapprove of violent criminals being DNRd

[hollow condor]

The reason is

We want people to get trials

So they go to orbital station and face trial

And see if their DNR is worth it

[simple root]

LOL

no dude

that isn't going to happen in practice

they are going to continue attempting jailbreak while a trial is organized

[hollow condor]

Host Vision

[simple root]

and i am going to shoot them in the head with a shotgun

[pliant gyro]

maybe its a culture issue but 90% of the prisoners will break doors down with their fist and tackle you

[hollow condor]

That’s fine just revive them for their trial

[simple root]

Which means... forcing doctors to just

stay in brig.

instead of helping people.

[pliant gyro]

Brig medic's back on the menu 😼

[hollow condor]

More incentive to take them to orbital faster

[simple root]

More incentive to just not bother

and let them rot

[hollow condor]

That’s a capital crime

[simple root]

It's one I have committed many times, in front of many COs, and have yet to be punished for

[pliant gyro]

i was gonna say, we're allowed to break the law anyway right

it just seems flawed

[simple root]

If you order a DNR and people agree they deserved it, then nobody will punish you

[hollow condor]

Command is not

[pliant gyro]

I want prisoners to have trials too, swear

[simple root]

Command arguably breaks the law more than anyone

lmao

[hollow condor]

It violates server rules

[simple root]

COs ordering mass DNRs, JOs torturing prisoners with blowtorches

[hollow condor]

But admins will let it slide if it’s good rp

[simple root]

yeah

like

[hollow condor]

Which is what #1512712851234488493 is for

[simple root]

The rule, in practice, is not against command breaking the UCMJ

The rule is don't be LRP as command

[hollow condor]

It’s for shitters

[simple root]

🤝

[pliant gyro]

CO wont order the DNR in this case then becausae they cannot break the law. The way I see it MPs illegally order it and if the CO ignores it you're good.

[simple root]

We agree

[hollow condor]

Who is will DNR everyone

For no reason

[simple root]

Indeed

We agree here i think

[hollow condor]

I’m fine with DNRing John jailbreak who reached for my service weapon 4 times

[simple root]

ye

That is who gets DNR'd

[pliant gyro]

honestly I'll accept this but it should be clear for new MPs

[simple root]

hmm

lowkey i disagree

[pliant gyro]

new MPs are scared to break any law cuz they think they'll get banned. It isn't intuitive

[simple root]

i think it's good RP for new MPs to learn

"Oh"

"I can just do shit?"

"Okay huge"

[hollow condor]

MPs aren’t required to follow SOP apparently

[simple root]

i'm p sure they are, by SOP

[pliant gyro]

well you see what I mean? It's not intuitive. No MP will find that out without worrying there's admin repercussion

If I just started playing sec I would not go out of my way to break laws and SOP knowing I'm playing a "high expectation" role

that's all

[simple root]

i think you can meet high expectation, while ordering DNRs when people are being nrp

but

yeah

i understand where you're coming from

[pliant gyro]

Okay but as the POLICE you do not expect to just order ILLEGAL DNRS only because nobody will arrest you for it. I totally agree with you on what you're saying, by the way. It should be made clear in the rules somewhere yeah

we def agree

[simple root]

i just dont know how it could be made clear without encouraging it

yknow?

[pliant gyro]

well, it should be encouraged because if not MPs spend 2 hours in a loop reviving asshole NRP prisoners thinking if they dont they get rolebanned

[simple root]

I think it should be encouraged by the MP culture

not the law/rules

if that makes sense

but that requires... MPs who know to always be on

yeah

[pliant gyro]

I've made it my mission to teach E4 MPs as much as I can

[simple root]

mhm

im still an e4 MP

😭

[hollow condor]

E5 is 24 hours

E6 is 50

[pliant gyro]

E6 💪

but anyway, I think we've came to a good point for improvement. Hopefully the admins/mods or whatever discuss this further

[hollow condor]

I’m writing it

[pliant gyro]

thank you

[simple root]

RELEASE ME FROM CORPORAL HELLLLLLLLLLLLL 😭 😭 😭 😭 😭

[hollow condor]

hot take

MW is the most fun MP role

[simple root]

correct

that is why i have nearly 400h on MW

and always declare myself to be the MW at the start of MP rounds here

[hollow condor]

Sob?

[simple root]

Sob?

[pliant gyro]

it's nice to have a competent warden who's keeping track of things too

[crude olive]

I played a lot of warden in regular ss13 back in the day, I should give MP a try in CM for once

[hollow condor]

Should I just add a kit to MP vend only one dude can take that just makes them a warden

[simple root]

not really

[pliant gyro]

Hm

[simple root]

because if it gives any mechanical benefit it'll just be rushed

[hollow condor]

It’s a title

lol

You’re a paperwork jockey

[simple root]

Not worth adding then imo

[quick portal]

I hate to say it but we are seeing the limits of the anti-role bloat direction

I think it may be more trouble than it's worth to break departments apart like this

[simple root]

✅

[crude olive]

specialist role is getting added too isn't it, removing the vendor

[simple root]

i already think CMP is gonna cause problems

[pliant gyro]

know nothing JO who tells experienced MPs what to do

[simple root]

✅

[pliant gyro]

doesnt need MP time either

[simple root]

There have been many times I've considered just arresting an IO who came into brig to scream at us

ohh speaking of

[hollow condor]

Yes

[simple root]

@hollow condor add a section making orders given by personnel who are detained or evading detainment void until such a time as any detainment has ended or their charges have been dropped

[hollow condor]

Is that not in SOP

[simple root]

nope

[hollow condor]

bruh

[simple root]

it's in RMC SOP

but not here

legitimately we would benefit so much from copying a lot of RMC's SOP verbage

because theirs is just

more fleshed out in a lot of spaces

Up until a few months ago (vest addition emoji_11 ) their laws were genuinely pretty nice

[hollow wren]

Idk why its so anti-execution tbh

Its a bit crazy

[simple root]

Because nrp MPs will just blast you

for being permabrigged

[hollow wren]

I prefer the free market of We-Yu justice

[simple root]

✅

I am judge and I am jury. The MK221 in my hands is the executioner.

[pliant gyro]

I thought it was a remnant of CM-13 and it being marine only but then they made it seem like this was intentional despite insurgency now existing

[simple root]

No you can just slime people on CM13 too.

They like to do organized executions according to their execution SOP.

But like, if a guy tries to run for it

You can just light em up

[pliant gyro]

If "no executions" was tacked onto CMU that would be strange. I know they aren't looking for parity with the real ucmj but even the real one permits executions under certain circumstances.

[quick portal]

@hollow condor okay here is my truth nuke

AO kit is getting cut since it is the hosts view that XO should be implemented

the mythical LO (I don't know if there are ever plans to implement) and the currently real EO are both niche roles whose duties shift throughout play, so why don't they both get eliminated and we readd the ASO. The ASO should just be reimplemented as in CM13 with oversight over the Hangar, Engineers, Intel, and Req, I feel it's a sort of natural gap filler to help fight role bloat

As for CMO and CMP both of these department chiefs are pretty core and require a niche in terms of attention and skillset which I would argue that would best be served by dedicated roles

[simple root]

PLEASEE GIVE ME A CMP ROLE

!!!

[quick portal]

yeah the Chief Officers should have their own role

[hollow condor]

@solid plinth

Troy is adamant they’re bloat and need to be kits

So convince him and I’m game

[simple root]

@solid plinth MP griefing will skyrocket when JOs who don't get the IO kit fast enough choose CMP and have no idea what they're doing

[quick portal]

I would also argue that Intel should have it's own role for a number of reasons

Intel Officers currently have a repute as LRP fraggers which is the opposite of what the role should be, I would argue that the Intel teams should require pretty high times to be played since the role implies navigating combat zones as an armed but non-combat oriented personnel, whether the Armed DS Intel Officer or the Covert INS Intel Officer, both require a lot of tact and skill when intel nowadays is an excuse for Lieutenants to frag out while being called sir

and my final little ideaguy idea is that thinking about how auxiliary departments often have senior enlisted leading them and that if the ASO is split in attention, maybe the SEA role could have kits implimented to focus on different things, Quartermaster is the first that comes to mind

but in current play we don't really need a quartermaster, I just think that it would serve better doing the same kind of things as advisor

i dunno

I don't feel as strongly about SEA kits

but I do feel strongly the JO role should be eliminated

a little role bloat goes a long way

SEA Company Advisor, Quartermaster, Senior Engineer, Senior Policeman
open 3 SEA roles max

[hollow condor]

Req is self governed now

[quick portal]

right

[hollow condor]

Techs are becoming WO’s and have full rights over req

[quick portal]

I don't know

I feel like Tech should stay an entry level role

[simple root]

I feel like SEA already fills all of this rather neatly

They are an SNCO who has soft authority

[quick portal]

yeah I don't feel strongly about SEA kits I more just am thinking about these SNCO positions

[simple root]

really i think it'd be best off as like

you know how CM13 lets you choose your role name?

i.e. doctors being Surgeons, Pharmacists, or Doctors

something like that for SEA + having appropriate drip in the SEA vend

[quick portal]

yeah that could be cool

[quick portal]

is this change up for debate

[hollow condor]

nah

[quick portal]

I feel pretty firmly not all Techs should become WOs

die kit die

[hollow condor]

kill Troy bro

[hollow wren]

Reqs are WOs? Lol

Lmao

[simple root]

To be fair

[quick portal]

okay hear me out

[simple root]

Req needs someone who can order an arrest for a chud who will not fuck off

[quick portal]

just give Aux Tech an insane rank up pipeline

[hollow condor]

The tech

Or XO

[quick portal]

like every 15 hours until they hit Gunny

[simple root]

Techs could not order arrests before this

[hollow condor]

ya

They could

[simple root]

??

no

they were not officers

[pliant gyro]

Private Shitstain is all grown up now 🥹 Gunnery Sergeant Shitstain

[quick portal]

0hr Pvt
10hr PFC
25hr LCpl
40hr Cpl
55hr Sgt
70hr SSgt
85hr GySgt
100hr WO

[simple root]

only an officer can order an arrest

[quick portal]

who is hitting 100 hours as aux tech? someone who deserves the rank of Warrant Officer

[hollow wren]

Wtf is the rank time for CT btw?

[hollow condor]

nah

techs are an exception

[hollow condor]

10 hours

[simple root]

where

[hollow wren]

I’ve got 30 fucking hours and I’m still a pfc wtf

[hollow condor]

Req line rule plaque

[hollow condor]

That’s the max I think

[simple root]

req line rule plaque does not give req techs the right to order an arrest

[hollow wren]

I see corporal cts all the time

[simple root]

it gives them the right to refuse service

[hollow condor]

Then it’s 50 hours

[hollow condor]

If they don’t leave they can be arrested

[quick portal]

someone tell me this isn't a good idea

[hollow condor]

Your ideas are awful

[simple root]

in this one specific circumstance, yes

[hollow condor]

jk jk

[quick portal]

do yyou mean that... 🙁

[simple root]

but most of the time when req is being harassed they lack the ability to act on it

[hollow condor]

Techs shouldn’t be ordering arrests in any other case

[pliant gyro]

Maybe a Corporal max bruddah idk about E-7. I actually don't hate jobs having a lot of rankups but the later ones should take much longer

corporal is above most people anyway

[quick portal]

the billet of Quartermaster is often held by a E7-E9 when they're needed so I think giving Auxtech a high hour pipeline since it's a niche and boring role is like one of the only roles where it's fine if we want to avoid just adding another role with the high rank

[pliant gyro]

tbh you aren't wrong about that

Maybe have it start as corporal and rankup to E-7 like MPs do

[hollow wren]

I think every job should be able to to rank to colonel

[quick portal]

I don't really care I don't play reqtech cause I'm a fragger god

[solid plinth]

CMO, CMP and ASO serve very little purpose here as seperate roles seeing as the people in the department can do their jobs with very little change. If someone wants to make CMO a JO kit, I wouldn't be opposed, but there is very little reason for the others to exist here.

I especially hate ASO ngl

[hollow wren]

We need shitbrains rifleman with colonel status

[quick portal]

#TRVTHNVKE

why the ASO hate

ASO can do the job of like 3 officer roles in one and cut down on the CO getting phone called literally every 30 seconds

[solid plinth]

ASO was a role added (in my opinion) with very little reason to exist.

CE already did the job of ASO, then they added a role that exists purely for a mechanic that takes a max of 10 minutes every round.

A mechanic that we don't really have to worry about since we streamlined it.

[simple root]

CMP as JO has massive griefing potential, which is the main concern.

I would rather just not have a CMP exist than have some idiot JO who doesn't know what they're doing come in and fuck up my department.

[solid plinth]

CMP is just not something that is really needed, its all written out for you + literally any officer can order the arrest of an MP if they break UCMJ/SOP.

So its redundant.

[quick portal]

I am of the opinion having played a lot of command lately that the lack of ASO or any departmental officers means that the way rounds flow the Captain will get a call every 3 minutes and most of it is concerning auxiliary duties

If Engineering gets expanded upon why add a CE when we could relegate it to an ASO
Same goes for Req and Intel, plus it's a role for pilots to be accountable for

[simple root]

So we don't need a CMP at all then

if we just remove the CMP kit i'm fine with this.

[hollow condor]

People have asked for it

[simple root]

A JO CMP is going to grief because they weren't fast enough to get an IO kit

[hollow condor]

Ahelp

[quick portal]

I think it is very important that there is an intermediate auxiliary focused officer between the Captain and the departments and that it can't be a JO kit because it require deep familiarity with the other departments

[simple root]

There's no reason a role with 0 MP playtime requirement should be in command of the MP department

[quick portal]

that's true

[hollow condor]

Command roles will require mp playtime i think

Like Jo xo co

Idk

[simple root]

So I'm going to get useless MPs who want to play CIC roles

[hollow condor]

Happens in RMC

[simple root]

Correct

[solid plinth]

IOs operate independently and therefore don't need command.
Req runs itself essentially outside of the commander designating a general plan roundstart.
Engineering duties pretty much don't exist in current implementation and anyway CTs manage themselves under their SLs just fine.
Pilots are incharge of their own ships and outside of being told to hold for evac, have very little need for oversight.

[simple root]

In RMC there are also dedicated CMPs

RMC is also a hugbox with no antagonists and MP is a greenshift

[hollow condor]

also I think it’s required because we have people taking command, not reading SOP or UCMJ and then committing 18 crimes

so yes I think you need MP playtime for command

[simple root]

I think that this will just lead to illiterate MPs. What we need is MPs enforcing the UCMJ on COs.

[hollow condor]

Prob like only an hour

[solid plinth]

Commander and XO will require a bit of MP playtime on launch.

[hollow condor]

I do and I get villainized

[ornate schooner]

I feel like that will just result in no changes other than players sitting through a DS MP round before they do any commanding.

[simple root]

^

[quick portal]

Regardless of this being true, which I understand that it is, I still feel strongly that the lack of a dedicated in-between role hurts this, however maybe if XO is added that could take the brunt since that is part of an XOs job

[hollow condor]

Then if they commit a felony as CO they get role banned

:)

Problem solved

[quick portal]

well it won't require 1 hour of MP it will probably require 5-10 which will mean multiple rounds

[solid plinth]

CO, XO and SOs should all be able to spread the workload pretty well.

I do somewhat think that SOs maybe need to become their own role, but IDK.

[quick portal]

I just feel that the kits are kind of a bad bandaid to avoid role bloat

[solid plinth]

The issue we have right now is that a lot of people roll JO JUST for EO/IO and then don't command.

[quick portal]

but in reality it often means that gaps get opened

[hollow condor]

I roll EO to do req

Since EO is fucking useless otherwise

[quick portal]

IO really needs to be it's own role, or have specific SOP written and brutally enforced for it

[solid plinth]

Which is exactly what you're not supposed to be doing.

[simple root]

This is why a CMP kit is a bad idea to be honest.

[solid plinth]

They have crazy high construction skill, build the FOB.

[simple root]

They will take the CMP kit because it's all that's left and just fuck around.

[quick portal]

IO fraggers with 2 primaries and heavy armor every insurgency round drive me insane

[ornate schooner]

I feel if we get CMP players it could be decent to have a role to handle appeals instead of CO

but also that could just be a fax responder

[hollow condor]

Make IOs actual Intel officers and not the rifleman

[solid plinth]

I need to write a design doc, but I think we'll split SO off of JO into its own thing and leave JOs as the more 'mechanic' focused roles, maybe make them WOs IDK.

[hollow condor]

Make them undercover

IOs should be under cover demons

[ornate schooner]

If I remember right that may be possible once the removable rank thing is added.

[solid plinth]

They have all the tools they need to do this, its just about how the players roleplay it.

[quick portal]

the issue is Intel should have a lot of lattitude but inexperienced and LRP players get IO and just play it very poorly

[ornate schooner]

If it is I may play IO again

[hollow condor]

Chevrons have to get added first

[simple root]

This would need someone to roll JO with the intent of maybe getting CMP, instead of just.. rolling MP for the guaranteed pick.

[quick portal]

I feel part of why it should become it's own role is so strict playtime requirements can get added

[quick portal]

they're in

latest changelog

[hollow condor]

Mb

[quick portal]

chud

[simple root]

If CMP was its own role I'd absolutely roll it, but there's no way in hell I'm rolling fucking JO for a chance to.

[solid plinth]

The most effective IO round I've ever seen was someone sneaking the radio jammer into the CLF base ngl.

You can do covert larp as IO

[ornate schooner]

If chevrons have been added I hope to see atleast one IO roleplaying like the CIA next playtest

[hollow wren]

Actual crime to force competent leaders to play MP

[quick portal]

I think my overall point concerning things like ending kits, implementing ASO, or CMO or CMP or etc etc etc is that

There is just a serious gap in command that JO is failing to fill and that I feel does require separate roles to focus on, I hope if JO can be reworked and XO implemented it can solve it but I doubt it will

[solid plinth]

If someone wants to give IOs a disguise briefcase with civilian clothes, I'm fine with it. Just repurpose the CL briefcase.

[simple root]

It's how we get the competence out of them before they hit Command

[hollow wren]

How to ensure only the worst players play command

[solid plinth]

My plan right now is implement XO and SO as seperate roles and see how things go, I really do not think ASO/CMO/CMP are needed at all.

They're just bloat command roles for departments that have very little need for overarching command.

[quick portal]

I think CMO is the most unneeded

CMO, LO, and CE are all bloat roles and I don't think need to be added, but these departments should have individuals (or more likely a central individual (like ASO )) to report to who can focus purely on them and not also the combat space

[solid plinth]

I see it in CM13 all the time. CE/QM/ASO/CMO/CMP tend to just kinda fuck off and idly do nothing the entire round because there is very little need for them outside of niche circumstances for like 10 minutes of the round.

[quick portal]

I agree

[simple root]

To be fair, CM13 is not a server with a heavy focus on HvH.

CMO/CMP will have work to do here if they are added.

[solid plinth]

The HvH focus does not really make a huge difference as none of those roles can leave the ship/base/fob anyway.

[simple root]

I have 800 hours of MP on RMC, and a decent chunk of time on CM13

I am telling you it does make a huge difference

[quick portal]

I do think CMP is an important enough role to warrant implementing as we grow in size

I also think that even with JO revisions and an XO added the aux departments (Engi, Req, Med) will still eventually need a central leader to focus specifically on them

[solid plinth]

CMO would just be a doctor with different clothes, we have very little need for them that a normal doctor does not already fulfill.

[quick portal]

just role CMO duties into the ASO role

[simple root]

Every doctor deploys, and most head off near the front to provide support. A doctor that cannot do that, and can do treatment faster, will prevent us from just rotting prisoners.

[quick portal]

since medical is auxiliary

[quick portal]

there should always be more than half of medical in the medbay

[solid plinth]

UCMJ does not allow doctors to deploy, we ahelp MANY MANY of those people a day lol.

[simple root]

simply not how it works in game.

[ornate schooner]

This is honestly just nrp doctors

[quick portal]

see above message

sorry if that came off as snarky

I am not snarky I am a kindhearted individual

[solid plinth]

Generally you should have a doctor on the ship and everyone else in the FOB IMO.

[ornate schooner]

When I play doctor I sit in medbay bored until suddenly the dropship vomits 20 hugged marines like god intended

[solid plinth]

Field hospitals are the best way to do it.

[simple root]

correct

[solid plinth]

You know what.

[simple root]

and when the doctors are all in the field hospital, and only 1 is left on the ship

prisoners rot when they riot

[solid plinth]

We'll put this to democracy.

#polls soon

[hollow condor]

Oh god

[simple root]

i'll point at my most recent insurgency round

1 doctor is simply insufficient to quickly heal 5 people who were shotgunned to death

even 2 doctors lost one of them.

[pliant gyro]

We operate the prison like a gulag here. And I like it this way

[ornate schooner]

Maybe dont shotgun prisoners to death after one warning?

[crude olive]

With current med? That's surprising

[simple root]

I give 5

I give prisoners ample warning that I will shoot them, and I give them ample time to stop trying to break out of the brig

[pliant gyro]

The door punchers are the ones who deserve it most tbf

[simple root]

^

[ornate schooner]

Yeah door punching is horrible

[simple root]

Door punchers should just be shot immediately

I'm not fucking around with you destroying my door

Die now

[ornate schooner]

I feel that @simple root shotguns prisoners too much

but door punching is bad as well

Honestly we need a brig update

[simple root]

Certainly a valid take

[ornate schooner]

add ways for prisoners to escape that involve rp and are fun for both sides

[simple root]

I have killed very many prisoners, and I will not say I don't enjoy it

[ornate schooner]

or atleast funner than doorpunch

[simple root]

yeah

Like the uhh.

Bush brig.

is just ridiculous.

impossible to even attempt escape from.

[ornate schooner]

Yeah

[simple root]

But there is no way to escape from any brig that isn't doorpunch.

[ornate schooner]

I wish I actually knew how to contrib honestly

[simple root]

I honestly think the biggest contribution to stopping NRP jailbreaks

[ornate schooner]

I got interested once and learned the basics of YAML before giving up

[simple root]

Is adding hypersleep pods to brigs.

So prisoners can cryo.

[ornate schooner]

That does help some but also you can do the ghost command in console at anytime

[simple root]

There's an aversion to /ghosting when you get captured because it's generally seen as NRP

[ornate schooner]

I mean it sort of is

but I dont think any MP main would blame you

[simple root]

I don't really see it that way

When I lose I ghost

[ornate schooner]

We hate the current brig system as well

[simple root]

Whether that's being capped by xenos or being capped by GOVFOR

I'm capped and round removed

I lost

[pliant gyro]

If the brig were enlarged into a prison and given its own little ecosystem it might be more engaging to be a perma and also allow for constant MP/prisoner interactions

[ornate schooner]

Yes

I also want some way for prisoners to escape and rejoin the round if the MP are really incompetent or the prisoners are very skilled or lucky

[simple root]

That exists

[ornate schooner]

Currently just MP being competent is enough to make all escapes impossible

[simple root]

It's called tackling them and stealing their gun

[ornate schooner]

Yeah its really not feasible

[simple root]

It is

[ornate schooner]

The amount of luck you need is absurd

[simple root]

It actually happened a few days ago

like 7 CLF broke out of brig and murdered the MPs

[ornate schooner]

You have to 1 tackle down and kill a MP without the other MP killing you

[simple root]

so

[ornate schooner]

and then

you have to get off the ship

[simple root]

The technique is baiting an MP in

Which is super easy on Bush

[ornate schooner]

without dieing to the entirety of govfor

[simple root]

Since you're supplied knives.

Just stab another inmate to death.

And get the MP to come in and retrieve them

Then tackle the MP and jump them for their shit.

[pliant gyro]

its not really baiting an MP in when command insists 20 living unrestrained CLF members be gathered into a brig designed for 6 people

[simple root]

✅

At that point you go to req and get a flamer.

I'm not fucking around with that dude.

Just kill them.

[pliant gyro]

if I got into mapping and I was given permission I would love to turn brigs into prisons

Sounds fun

[ornate schooner]

If you do that on most ships/maps though it makes no sense for govfor to have a entire prison

[simple root]

mhm

[pliant gyro]

if local law enforcement remains a big deal they could have the max-sec prisons

[quick portal]

@solid plinth I really think if you wanna avoid role bloat (assuming we do eventually decide to add department heads) to make ASO the Med, Engi, and Req head and give them authority over the hangar so they are working directly with the air attaché

I think CMP is important enough to warrant it's own role though

that way the ASO is completely and soley concerned with all auxiliary matters

[solid plinth]

I'd rather just have seperate department heads then do one big fuckall ASO type role ngl.

If we're gonna go in on a rework we may as well add the rest.

[quick portal]

really?

[solid plinth]

CMP/CMO/LO is the plan.

Though frankly I think we might do QM instead of LO IDK

[quick portal]

QM would be cool

lot of officers

fuck it what if we had a Warden and QM and any officer matters could be referred to the XO

[simple root]

Warden role......

Give it to me.....

[quick portal]

XO is the Deputy Commander and Adjutant, meaning they act with command authority but focuses on auxiliary and administrative tasks, if for any reason Req or MPs need an Officerial opinion the primary person they should come to is the Adjutant which is the XO or a Staff Officer acting as adjutant, just as how the XO can act as Commander in lieu of the CO

[hollow wren]

Whats really that bad about prisoners rotting?

Prisoners have kinda reached the end of their lifecycle once they’ve died as a prisoner

[simple root]

To me, nothing.

But you're not supposed to do it.

[hollow wren]

I feel like its a bit revive crazy on this server

[pliant gyro]

Govfor doctors sprinting to revive the prisoner who just broke out and killed 2 people with an M41A before instantly getting vaporized

[simple root]

There's a general focus on avoiding RRs.

[hollow wren]

I remember actively having to fight a doctor during colonyfall from reviving a dude that tried gunning down a crowd of civilians

[solid plinth]

Whats bad about prison guards letting people die in their prisons IRL?

Thats the answer.

[hollow wren]

We literally didn’t even have a functional prison anymore

Because xenos had ripped it apart

[simple root]

Letting people die in their prisons who orchestrate jailbreaks and attempt to steal their guns in order to kill the prison guards, specifically.

They're a very clear threat to everyone's safety and they cannot reasonably be contained.

[solid plinth]

Well, once orbital is done it won't be that much of an issue anymore. You can send your prisoners off to the courts (literally).

[pliant gyro]

truke

[hollow wren]

IRL there wouldn’t be revival for a dude who got a hold of a m16 and started shooting people to death in prison

[solid plinth]

There would be, actually...

[simple root]

I have negative faith in this working.

[solid plinth]

https://www.collinsattorneys.com/police-duty-for-medical-care-in-custody/

[simple root]

It'll be interesting seeing the first few times a prisoner transport gets hit though.

[hollow wren]

Idk dawg I doubt medicals ability to revive someone with more holes than swiss cheese

Like yeah if they surrender

After the massacre

But thats not something happening here

[solid plinth]

They're legally required to provide medical aid for suspects until it is no longer viable. Its why there is bodycam footage of cops doing CPR on mass shooters and shit.

[ornate schooner]

So would orbital have a proper large prison?

[solid plinth]

Orbital is gonna have a proper perma and court alongside other things.

[hollow wren]

I mean I guess you’re right, I just find it a bit of a waste RP wise

Prisoner RP is the lowest form of RP

[solid plinth]

Completely dependent on the person playing the prisoner.

[hollow wren]

Its not really enjoyable on any front from my experience

[pliant gyro]

Do they load onto a ship and reach orbital? Or wym by that. It sounds cool

[ornate schooner]

Yeah prison is basicly just round removal as soon as you are sent up

[simple root]

Are they going to have prison guards for the inevitable breakout?

[hollow wren]

I don’t like being a prisoner nor watching them

[simple root]

Being capped by govfor is RR, yes.

[ornate schooner]

Honestly I feel like escapes should be a bit more possible as well as needing more stuff to be done

so more stuff for prisoners to do

[solid plinth]

Colony logistics will have a shuttle that can go to orbital to pickup deliveries (which CMB can also use if they need to bring someone up there) and GOVFOR's DS can reach it as well.

[hollow wren]

Lowkey if we hate executions we should have a “forced cryo” penalty

[solid plinth]

The Orbital will also have its own shuttle they can use to go pick people up if need be.

Its gonna have like 20 LZs because all third parties have the option of returning there.

[pliant gyro]

Interesting. And is this only for people convicted of capital crimes? (or who got perma for whatever reason)

i wouldnt hate court shit or proper appeals with a judge

[solid plinth]

Orbital includes legal + perma but its also the housing for all the ambassadors and other such.

Its kinda like a 'neutral' third place.

[simple root]

[hollow wren]

My experience here is once you’re arrested you’re basically rr regardless of if you’re guilty or not

[simple root]

Right, like how hospitals are neutral

[hollow wren]

Your round is over for the next hour

[solid plinth]

Colony logi are gonna be tied to it as the ASRS is gonna be on the orbital rather than the colony, so you have a reason to actually transport your supplies. Kinda similar to the trade station in normal SS14.

[solid plinth]

Depends on what you're arrested for, outside of capital crimes (murder, etc) your max time in jail is 20-30 minutes.

[simple root]

So the orbital will not be neutral

It will be a priority point for CLF to capture

[solid plinth]

And insurgency rounds here are almost always 2 1/2 hours or longer

[hollow wren]

I remember Govfor storming the weyland labs and arresting everyone despite us not really committing crimes that round

[simple root]

Meaning that we will have nowhere to send CLF POWs..

Meaning we are at square one.

[hollow wren]

No trial, just basically permabrigged for being We-Yu

[solid plinth]

Its gonna be nearly impossible for any group to take it as its gonna have incredibly good security/lockdowns.

Logistically it makes no sense to take it.

[pliant gyro]

is there dedicated orbital sec/police roles?

im guessing they can't leave for any reason

[solid plinth]

Yeah, its got its own security/admin.

[ornate schooner]

I think the concern is that orbital roles are going to be played by people who view themselves as civilians and part of the colony

[simple root]

Logistically it makes the most sense to take it, as it grants the holder a monopoly on the colony's imports.

[hollow wren]

I mean the arrest process is like an hour in of itself in my experience

[solid plinth]

Nah, they're gonna be snobby secondary roles trust.

[ornate schooner]

So once the CLF propaganda machine gets going then govfor are back to square one

[simple root]

CLF have complete control over the colony-side narrative.

[hollow wren]

More like 30 but the point stands

[simple root]

Okay. And if they aren't, the executions will continue

[solid plinth]

UCMJ/CLAW requires them to start the time the second they start booking you.

[quick portal]

@solid plinth if adding department heads is the go then I would reiterate that in SOP they should probably be senior enlisted save for CMO and they should report first and foremost to the adjutant which is the XO or an acting staff officer if the XO is acting as CO or there is no XO available

I would also argue CMO is kind of a meaningless role, moreso than a Warden or Quartermaster, since each doctor is an officer anyway and our medical department isn't that big

[ornate schooner]

Unless the orbital gets isolated from colony announcements and comms I expect the people there will tend to side with colony

[solid plinth]

My big plan is to make JOs WOs and make department heads 2nd LTs.

[quick portal]

I see

[pliant gyro]

that would make sense actually

[quick portal]

will JOs be separated from SOs?

[solid plinth]

So you have the CO Captain/Major, XO 1st LT, Department heads 2ndlt, and JOs WOs.

[simple root]

Aren't WOs generally specialists in a specific field?

[pliant gyro]

yes

[solid plinth]

Well thats what JOs are.

They're intel/engineering.

Mainly

[ornate schooner]

Does anyone have paperwork to make people fill out when they want someone brigged?

[quick portal]

I feel like that's a little redundant to have Officer Department Heads alongside JO WOs, with the exception of Intel

[solid plinth]

JOs serve a mechanical purpose.

So they're IOs and EOs.

Which are two very important roles rn

warrant officers for mechanical roles, commissioned officers for command roles.

[ornate schooner]

Something like having the person who is bringing them to you for brigging fill it out with what evidence they have and why the person is being detained and brought to a MP

I tried to make a thing for this but im not good at paperwork

[pliant gyro]

ya

I have an appeal form for prisoners

it's a statement / appeal bundled into one

[ornate schooner]

I mean like a intake form for the random rifleman dragging them in to fill

[pliant gyro]

OH yes to that as well, but good look trying to get them to fill it out

[simple root]

why the person is being detained and brought to an MP
"Someone said he's CLF to the DP"

That's the best you'll get

[ornate schooner]

Heres the prototype I made ```
Name of Arrested: [form]

Reason for Arrest: [form]

Arrested is considered:
[ [check] ] Civilian
[ [check] ] Military Personnel
[ [check] ] Prisoner of War
[ [check] ] Other

If the arrested is Military specify their:
Rank: [form]
Role: [form]
Squad: [form]

Prisoner is sentenced to:
[ [check] ] Permanent confinement
[ [check] ] Temporary confinement (List charges and penalties below)

List of charges and penalties:
[bullet] [form] for a duration of [form]

Applicable evidence:
[ [check] ] Witness Statement (Write ID of Witness Report)
[form]
[ [check] ] Forensic (Write ID of Forensic Report)
[form]
[ [check] ] Confiscated Item (Write ID of Evidence storage locker)
[form]
Signed Arresting Personnel
[signature]

Signed Intaking Military Police
[signature]```

Honestly we need a general MP paperwork thread for this stuff

[hollow condor]

#1503938732288639086 #1506046442966483004

[ornate schooner]

Thats for a specific govfor

[pliant gyro]

That's when we turn them around and back out the base

if they can't document it it's on them

[hollow condor]

no one really cares cause it’s too much effort to make copies across all factions

Unless you make it all Nemo

[ornate schooner]

Im just making my stuff non faction specific

[simple root]

Which means we are releasing CLF into the AO, which pisses everyone off

[pliant gyro]

If they get pissed off they have a good incentive to document shit for the MPs

they do not even do a bare minimum

[simple root]

also the NEMO thing feels too faction specific, when Provost is intended to encompass all factions

[hollow condor]

Provost actually only covers 4 factions

[ornate schooner]

Also that thread just doesnt have everything needed

[hollow condor]

NEMO is a interstellar agency

[simple root]

Why do PMC MPs answer to Provost over their own command structure

[hollow condor]

International law

Corporations still listen it INTERPOL

because they can go to jail if they don’t

[simple root]

Brother the corporation is force feeding children to aliens

[hollow condor]

Not my problem

[simple root]

They aren't going to give a fuck about Interpol 😭

[hollow condor]

Then I’ll just arrest them?

[hollow condor]

You act like this is common knowledge to everyone

When it’s a very locked up company secret

[simple root]

The colony announces "WEYU IS KILLING EVERYONE" every three rounds

[quick portal]

at that point then why not make Doctors a JO kit?

[hollow condor]

that’s one facility in a multi trillion dollar corporation

Also NEMO isnt stalking some random ass colony

[solid plinth]

Because doctors are a necessity and need to be rolled directly.

[hollow wren]

Idk is it super secret knowledge for the pmcs tho?

Like a whole ship of pmcs slaughters a marine vessel in one of the games

[quick portal]

and it's fail rp every single round

[hollow wren]

Dawg I remember the single time Govfor arrested me as a Weyu goon we did NO fucked up experiments

Like zero

Govfor even let me keep my gun all the way to base until a nrp synth wordlessly stripped me

[waxen mica]

Ask doctor to OD them with mindbreaker and you will have a perma stunned guy, later when its time to the trial fix him

[atomic cosmos]

Also they will try to run past you as soon as you open the door for any reason

[simple root]

dont do that that's a crime against humanity, just shoot them to death

[atomic cosmos]

Which is why I was so fed up I had medical just remove this guys arms 😭

[simple root]

yup this is why you instantly shoot them

[atomic cosmos]

So peak

Like it’s such a simple solution

[simple root]

on like

[atomic cosmos]

No arms

[simple root]

UPP?

[atomic cosmos]

No problems

[simple root]

if you try to jailbreak i DNR you instantly

shrimple as

[atomic cosmos]

Yeah but that’s less funny

And less humane

[simple root]

nah it's hilarious

on the first FOF round a bit ago

[atomic cosmos]

Honestly MP needs a straitjacket

[simple root]

a USCM IO tried to jailbreak

i shot him with the Type 23 but missed half my pellets

so he only got put at half health

then he crawled back into the cell

😭

[hollow condor]

Warfare Interstellar Charter of Humanity (WICH)

Article 1 – Protected Personnel

Medical personnel, rescue personnel, chaplains, humanitarian workers, accredited journalists, and surrendering combatants shall be protected from deliberate attack.

Article 2 – Protection of Prisoners

All prisoners shall receive adequate food, water, shelter, and medical treatment.

Article 3 – Prohibition of Torture

Torture, cruel treatment, coercive interrogation, and inhumane punishment are prohibited.

Article 4 – Prohibition of Summary Execution

No prisoner or detained individual may be executed without lawful judicial proceedings.

Article 5 – Protection from Experimentation

Human, synthetic, xenomorphic, or biological experimentation upon prisoners or civilians without consent is prohibited.

Article 6 – Civilian Protection

Deliberate attacks against civilian populations are prohibited.

Article 7 – Hostage Taking

The taking of hostages for political, military, or criminal gain is prohibited.

Article 8 – Collective Punishment

Punishment may only be applied to responsible individuals and shall not be imposed upon groups for the actions of others.

Article 9 – Protected Infrastructure

Hospitals, medical facilities, evacuation centers, civilian shelters, and emergency services are protected facilities.

Article 10 – Biological Weapons

The creation, deployment, transportation, or release of biological weapons is prohibited.

Article 11 – Chemical Weapons

The use of chemical agents designed to incapacitate, maim, or kill is prohibited except where specifically authorized by law.

Article 12 – Weapons of Mass Destruction

The use of planet-killer weapons, mass extinction devices, or indiscriminate strategic weapons is prohibited.

Article 13 – Incendiary and Area Denial Weapons

Incendiary weapons and area denial systems may not be used against civilian populations.

Article 14 – Autonomous Combat Systems

Fully autonomous weapons systems capable of lethal action without oversight are restricted and subject to review.

Article 15 – Acceptance of Surrender

Combatants who clearly surrender shall not be attacked.

Article 16 – Perfidy

False surrender, misuse of protected insignia, and deceptive use of humanitarian protections are prohibited.

Article 17 – Xenomorph Weaponization

The deliberate breeding, transportation, release, deployment, or weaponization of xenomorphic organisms is prohibited.

Article 18 – Protection of the Wounded

Wounded personnel shall be protected and afforded medical treatment whenever practical.

Article 19 – Synthetic Rights

Non-combatant synthetics are entitled to protection from unlawful destruction, tampering, memory alteration, or abuse, and are granted "Human Rights" by Article 19, as long as they aren't in violation 0f Articles 10, 11, 12, 14, or 16

Article 20 – Synthetic Identification

Combat synthetics and synthetic military personnel must be identifiable to lawful authorities, and must identify to anyone that they are a synthetic regardless of their coded command or owner.

Article 21 – Orbital Bombardment

Indiscriminate orbital bombardment of civilian populations or civilian infrastructure is prohibited, unless in response to a violation of article 10

Article 22 – Protection of Space Stations

Civilian stations, trade hubs, and medical installations are protected entities.

Article 23 – Protection of Escape Pods

Escape pods and emergency evacuation craft are protected from attack.

Article 24 – Hospital Ships

Hospital ships and clearly marked medical transports are protected entities.

Article 25 – Distress Signal Integrity

False distress calls, falsified rescue beacons, and fraudulent emergency broadcasts are prohibited.

Article 26 – Colonial Survival Infrastructure

Atmospheric processors, water purification facilities, and essential life-support infrastructure are protected assets.

Article 27 – Genocide

The deliberate extermination of a population, colony, species, or protected group is prohibited.

Article 28 – Forced Relocation

Mass deportation or forced relocation of civilian populations is prohibited unless necessary for immediate safety.

Article 29 – Slavery and Forced Labor

Slavery, involuntary servitude, and forced labor are prohibited, unless in a form of punishment by a rightfully tried and convicted felon.

Article 30 – Crimes Against Humanity

Murder, extermination, enslavement, torture, biological experimentation, and other severe abuses committed on a large scale constitute Crimes Against Humanity.

Article 31 – Enforcement Authority

The Nautical Examination Marshal's Office (NEMO) possesses authority to investigate alleged violations of the Warfare Interstellar Charter of Humanity (WICH) by military personnel, military police, government officials, contractors, and associated organizations.

Article 32 – Universal Jurisdiction

Violations of Articles 10, 12, 17, 27, 29, and 30 may be prosecuted regardless of location, rank, faction, or command authority, if otherwise the individual is protected by their military or corporation internal documents from arrest from internal documents.

[hollow condor]

@quick portal geneva convention

might change some of these articles

[quick portal]

I can throw some feedback when I get home

[hollow condor]

kk

actually

let me move this

if you came here to give feedback on the Geneva convention redo look at #1514031680372084826

[knotty rock]

I liked the name adjutant officer I think we should keep it instead of xo

[hollow condor]

it is adjutant

for XO

XO is a nickname but the offical is Adjutant

[knotty rock]

So what changes or are the changes already in?

Actually let me read again

[hollow condor]

im writing it

rn

[knotty rock]

I don’t quite agree with JOs not being able to utilise vehicles. I’d personally make it so the Acting Commander had to make the decision of providing the vehicle. Obviously if the commander decides not to then there should be a separate hierarchy such as EO takes control of the vehicle the IO/SO etc. since there are rounds where an EO does not spawn and blatantly disallowing the usage of the vehicle just doesn’t seem right to me to lock it behind role

[hollow condor]

heres the offical wording I wrote for it

Vehicle and Motorized Assets

If a vehicle or other general motorized asset is deployed for any reason the following regulations apply

• Authority of the vehicle falls under the on duty Vehicle Commander, and then to be operated by the Vehicle Crew. If no Vehicle Commander or Crew is present it falls under the Engineering Officer
• Only Technicians may operate APC's, Tanks, IFV, and simillar vehicles.
• Humvees are exempt and may be assigned to a sqaud for use by the XO or CO, if it is not assigned humvees automatically fall under Vehicle Crew assignment
• Medical assets fall under the jurisdiciton of the Chief Medical Officer. If no CMO is available it falls to the above stated jurisdicitons.
• If a vehicle is to become INOP or unsafe for use it is to be returned to the installiation and may only be redeployed if authorized by an EO.

[knotty rock]

Oh that’s perfect 👍

[hollow condor]

Summary of all changes

Game Rule changes

Military Command may not deploy to the Area of Operations (leave the ship) unless they are Intelligence officers retrieving intel (including talking to the local population) or Engineering officers to build and maintain the FOB and then they may only do their jobs as described. This does not apply if it is a CO or Adjutant(XO) following deployment law in SOP/UCMJ

Combat synthetics and rogue synthetics are not bound to any kind of behavioral inhibitor and may engage in combat at any given moment they deem necessary / beneficial just as a human would do. You may utilize any sort of weapon, explosives, or otherwise, and may engage in active combat even if risky. Your self-preservation directives are more relaxed, meaning you may engage in riskier situations more often. You are not bound to auxiliary roles, and even if able, you may decline superior orders to aid in supportive areas if you deem those inefficient. You are still bound to your faction's directives and must follow any superior orders in the best of your capacities as any other synthetic unit would do.

Command SOP Changes

Command Arms

Command must obide by the following regulations regarding arming themselves on the ship or in the field:

• Command may not take any type of special weapon from Req or Vendors, and may only use standard issue arms found in their respective armory, or rifleman prep. (This does not include magazines)
• Command may only arm with a Pistol, PDW, or SMG while shipside and it must be stored on their belt, back, or in a bag unchambered (it may be chambered if on a ground based installation)
• Command are allowed to operative heavy weapons only if no one else in the vincinity is doing so or there is a emergency situtation going on.

Command Field Deployment

- The CO or Adjutant(XO) may deploy to the field if they beleive it is more beneficial to the operation. However BOTH cannot be deployed and only one or the other may be deployed.

Detainment Authority

The follow regulations apply in the regards of Command ordering detainment or being detained.
- All orders from the detained command personnel are null and void, and shall not be followed by anyone.
- Command may not order the arrest of someone on grounds of suspicion
- Command may not pardon anyone of a crime, unless for the sakes of an emergency, this does not apply to Capital crimes, or violent crimes (i.e. Murder)
- The CMO may order arrests on the grounds of Insanity if done so after a proper examination with documentation. Under no other circumstances shall a person be ordered to be arrested for Insanity.

Command Arrests

When arresting a member of command (CO, XO, JOs, etc) a facsimile must sent to the marshal office before hand with a DETAILED report with reasoning. A response is not required to proceed with the arrest. Once a fax has been sent the CMP (if presents) must be present for the arrest and one other MP. The command member must be read their rights in its entirety and if they are the commander of the operation they are given 10 minutes to hand over command properly. This may be EXTENDED in emergency situations (i.e. shipside emergencies).

Do Not Revive Orders

The follow regulations apply for DNR orders issued by MPs or Command
- DNRs may not be issued by the XO or CO without proper documentation received from NEMO or HighComm.
- CO or XO may request for a DNR through NEMO or HighComm.
- If a person requests a DNR from the CMO for themselves and it is approved, it must be followed by law, chargeable by VoL (major crimes).

Aircew SOP changes

Aircraft Integrity

• Ship doors may not be tampered in a way that causes them to remain INOP in flight (i.e. bolting them open then taking off.)

Seating and Cargo

• Seating may not be completely removed on the primary dropship, seating may be completely removed on the attack dropship if it is NOT the only operatable ship.

Parachute Operations

- Ensuring that they are not deploying troops into an active firefight for safety reasons.

Purchasing of Munitions

• When Purchasing Munitions for the dropship, Flight Crew may only:
  • Spend 20% of the budget freely (rounding down to nearest whole number, i.e. 2109.77 is 2109). Anymore then this falls under the approval of the LO, if none is present the Tech. If the installitation grants a DP access to their own purchases, violators may be charged with NUR and FTFP
  • May request any munition at anytime as long as it does not conflict with the first regulation.
  • Are responsible for the transportation of all their munitions, but may REQUEST (not order) assistance from Technicians or other staff authorized to use a powerloader.

Equipment SOP Changes

Standard Issue Equipment

• The Acting Commander may issue special equipment on a case by case basis, such as special headsets or special weaponry for certain personnel or units as long as it does not violate the UCMJ or a specific ban as stated in SOP

Firearm Handling Regulations

• Under normal circumstances, weapons may only be fired in the firing range. (Unless for cermonial purposes)
• If no firing range is available MPs may be asked to designate a temporary safe area for weapons to be discharged.

Synthetic Operations

• Synthetics are not at any point authorized to weild a firearm, synths may hold firearms in one hand for transport or safety reasons.
• Synthetics are allowed to carry knives, tools, and other simillar equipment if needed to function in their job at optimal levels.
• Synthetics may conduct arrests but are not allowed to sentence due to not being able to understand spirit of law. If MP or CMP is available, the Synth may sentence.
• Synthetics designed for specified tasks shall be expected to conduct those tasks with minimal supervision, if a synthtic is assigned a task outside their defined purpose in their user manual, they shall be supervised by an experinced personnel.
• Synthetics used in a combat capacity must be monitored 24/7, if remotely monitored if any connection failure is to occur the synthetic shall be declared rogue and marked shoot to kill until a reset is performed fully.
• Syntethics may be sent to their manufacturer for examination if a represenitive or alike is on or near installiation. If the units user manual says not to allow access by other companies, it must be respected.
• Synthetics may be dismissed from the current position if ordered by the Department Head of their specialization (General use synthetics may only be dismissed by CO or XO)
• Synthetics may perform operations alone, but should not be sent off installiation for longer then 10 minutes unsupervised.

Grooming Standards

• Synthetic units are exempt, unless their users manual states otherwise

Vehicle and Motorized Assets

If a vehicle or other general motorized asset is deployed for any reason the following regulations apply

• Authority of the vehicle falls under the on duty Vehicle Commander, and then to be operated by the Vehicle Crew. If no Vehicle Commander or Crew is present it falls under the Engineering Officer
• Only Technicians may operate APC's, Tanks, IFV, and simillar vehicles.
• Humvees are exempt and may be assigned to a sqaud for use by the sqaud, the assignment being ordered by the XO or CO, if it is not assigned humvees automatically fall under Vehicle Crew assignment
• Medical assets fall under the jurisdiciton of the Chief Medical Officer. If no CMO is available it falls to the above stated jurisdicitons.
• If a vehicle is to become INOP or unsafe for use it is to be returned to the installiation and may only be redeployed if authorized by an EO.

Rank Structure

Rank Authority

Authority is determined by rank if two individuals are NOT in the same department. The highest ranking individual present is the acting authority and holds final decision making power, unless command is explicitly delegated by an individual of higher rank.

If two individuals of equal rank are present, authority defaults to the individual with greater seniority (time served).

Department Authority

Heads of Department (LO, CMP, CMO, IO, EO, and APOLLO) hold the final authority over those operating in their department regardless of rank. If cross department operations would be required (LO and EO working on logisitcs together) it then falls to highest rank.

Departments members may not have their orders overruled by anyone unless approved by the XO or CO.

XO and CO hold final authority on all department decisions including dismissal of a Department Head if found to be in violations of SOP or health standards.

Specialized Authority

Certain jobs and roles have specialized authority depending on their location and use, these are outlined below.
- Logistic Technicians hold authority over Req, and may order the arrest of any member that violate their orders in regard of REQ MATTERS (i.e. a rifleman is refusing to leave the line / REQ interior. NOT the CO is refusing to increase budget after already doing so once)
- Ordnance Technicians hold authority over their workshop, if anyone poses a hazard they may be dismissed (i.e. a rifleman is refusing to disable the pilot light on their M34 or a pyro on their M34T)
- DCCs hold the same authority as a DP in regards to aircraft interiors, and may dismiss anyone from the interior if they find them disruptive to operations
- Weapon Specialists hold the sole authority over their preferred speciality. They cannot be ordered by Command or their SL to pick a certain speciality. This does NOT apply to WS called in or awoken by Command

Third Parties

##Orbital Station Personnel

• Orbital Station Personnel are allowed onto military installiation at all times as long as they do not pose a threat to said installiation or hinder operations.
• Oribtal Station Personnel may oversee the transfer of prisoners as needed onto orbital shuttles.
• Orbital Station Personnel may represent any persons on military installiation as protected by law.

[hollow condor]

UCMJ Summary of Changes

Capital Crimes

Violation of Warfare Interstellar Charter of Humanity (WICH)

To engage in actions that violate the WICH convention

Major Crimes

Violation of Legal DNR (VoL)

To violate a medically issued DNR or DNR approved by NEMO/HighComm.

• 20 minutes.

Minor Crimes

Failure to Attend Combative Briefing

Failing to attend briefing as a combative personnel (i.e. sqaud members, vehicle crew, intel personnel)

• 5 Minutes

Saluting in Vehicle Operations Area (SVO)

Saluting on flight line, in garages, on designated vehicle travel paths, ACTIVE parking lots, is forbidden for personnel safety.

• NJP
• Second offense: 5 minutes.

Head Covers in Vehicle Operations Area (HCVO)

Wearing a non-strapped head cover (i.e. berets, patrol caps, beanies, etc.) on flight line, in garages, on designated vehicle travel paths, ACTIVE parking lots, is forbidden for personnel safety.

• NJP
• Second offense: 7 minutes.

Negligent Use of Resources (NUR)

Using, Purchasing, or Dispensing resources not to the benefit of the operation, this includes and is not limited to, spending req funds, taking limited resources (i,e, spec weapons) then needed, or claiming multiple assets without the ability to manage them all (i,e, an EO taking sole responsibility of all humvees)

• 5 minutes.

[hollow condor]

@quick portal

[hollow condor]

@jovial slate @tough sorrel @vale walrus
(Pinging due to changing game rules)

https://github.com/AU-14/ColonialMarinesUniverse/pull/1284

[quick portal]

Rank Structure SOP should clarify authority over Military Elements, mainly Squads and the Company (can we stop calling it a Platoon please please please)

`Tactical Authority refers to the right to direct placement and employment of members of a combat arms unit, and the unit itself.

The Squad Leader and relative Staff Officers have tactical authority over their respective squad which cannot be overwritten by any personnel not directly involved with the tactical operations of the combat arms, this includes Junior Officers or Senior Enlisted who have deployed and attached to squads.

The SL can relinquish authority to another individual of higher rank on their own will, only with approval from the CO or XO, and only to complete objectives relevant to the new authority (IOs gathering Intel, SEA conducting training, MPs conducting a field arrest.)`

The Commanding Officer, following the line of succession, has full authority over their unit regardless of the presence of an individual of higher rank on their vessel or installation, unless that individual commands a unit of greater scale such as a Battalion, Brigade, etc., or unless that individual has signed permission from the Commanding Officer's own superior. (I.E. A Major Pilot cannot overwrite a Captain CO, nor can a LtCol. Company Commander overwrite the CO of another Marine Company without express permission.)

[quick portal]

Condense that, rewrite it, whatever you need to do, but I feel like the general of this needs to be added to SOP

@hollow condor

who is dropping Xs without explaining why

[quick portal]

that's chud

I would also specify in command arms what is a heavy or special weapon

can an IO stow a SLAW/DAAMSL?

[hollow condor]

no

ill define it in glossary

[tough sorrel]

Perform briefing in the hangar. Everyone gets arrested because they salute to the captain

[hollow condor]

yep

[dull lance]

top 5 rules that will not be followed

by any1

[stone viper]

top 5 rules admins with nothing better to do will message you for, number 3 will bwoink.ogg you

[dusky moth]

even if you do this just for the sake of the larp - even though we all know this will be used to valid hunt by mps because no player will ever bother reading this-

the saluting rule should purely and only be within veichals everything else is something you made up for no apparent reasons, please do tell me why you include saluting in flight lanes garages designated veichle travel paths or active parking lots?

a humvee driver not saluting is not any different then being asked to not text and drive,
a guy riding a humvee not asked to salute to not blidn the one sitting next to him wit his elbow is logical

Real life causes and effects, to introduce this rule i fail to see the reason and please do tell me kit what is the reason for this? is this what results in hrp? is the does the salute emote have a 10% of hitting the player sitting next to you in the face?

now even if for the sake of argument this is accepted, IRL prohibitions exit solely within veichals, So why did you add garages vehicle paths or active parking lots?

why add these designation when even in real life where this things is not something included in a sop and is just a obvious must know and if you do it the only thing you will get is a slap on the head by the guy sitting next to you but first offense is njp and second is 5 min jail -wowzers-

even in real life this is purely and solely within vehicals whne peopel are sittign together, why did you add garages or any of these areas?

what is your source or reason for that?

what is the safety concern in that?

a salute blidns you to moving cars? or does it flash bang the drivers?

[hollow condor]

you cant salute on the flight line

period

lol

not just iwthin vehicles

but the flight line period is a NSZ

[dusky moth]

sure sure no problem

why garages or parking lots

please tell me what is your source for taht

[hollow condor]

same reaons as FL

[dusky moth]

Which is

[hollow condor]

You must stay attentive in the areas of active vehicles at all time to prevent injury

[dusky moth]

yes how would a salute cause injury or remove complete attention,

how iwl lyou not hear feel or see the humvee

[hollow condor]

if you're worried about if you're walking towards an officer or not you may not see the fully loaded semi barreling behidn you

rules are wrriten in blood

[dusky moth]

you do know that people salute in motor pools right?

[dusky moth]

yes please bring meo ne single real life sources for these rules

[hollow condor]

i just stated why

its a safety hazard

[dusky moth]

i am not askign why i am asking for a source

[hollow condor]

flight lines and active vehicle areas are NSZ

[dusky moth]

these rules come from real life right?

[hollow condor]

Yes

[dusky moth]

People salute in garages kit

[dusky moth]

okay great not hard to bring me a real life source of salutes being banned in motor pools or garages or active parking lots

Flight line salutation being banned in understandable,

[hollow condor]

you can happily look for one yourself, but again due to us storing air vehicles in garages, of which must be spooled to move, the rule was written

[dusky moth]

even if we purely ingore the idea of why you would nit pick such a thing to add its understandable because it exists in real life, it ruins situational awareness near dangerous things such as jet intakes

[dusky moth]

[hollow condor]

also because currently our air vehicles (liek vtols) are also stored in the same garages and parkign lots as ground vehicles

due to lack of mapping

so again

polus first offense is just an NJP

[dusky moth]

great