#smartgun feedback

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

glad mesa
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i made it stronger hows it feeling
i suspect HAZOPS might be cooked due to my changes but otherwise it should be good

uncut vessel
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.

twilit whale
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#1512321336821813278 message

glad mesa
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FYI

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i will be making the nerfs today

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then its gonna be like that for a while until someome touches it

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need to fuck off for.a bit for exams

uncut vessel
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@glad mesa ngl I really enjoy the changes but like

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It really needs a lock on mechanic maybe

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SG feels strong in Insur which is fine I guess but like in DS I don't enjoy it that much. Atleast from my fragger perspective M44 revolver + shotgun melts anything.

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maybe if they had like a lock on mechanic like that silly ultrakill guttertanks

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your focus + damage would increase as smartgun is able to shoot more towards the target.

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or smartguns can have special ammunition for them aswell like holo or armor piercing (the old flechette style AP that slowlys strips armors from the target while they are being fired upon consistently letting allies do more damage)

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these are my opinions you can ping me back if you want specifics about something

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you care bout

glad mesa
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legit no idea if that exists in our code already or at all on ss14 as a whole

uncut vessel
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tbh

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chip help might be needed but like

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imagine this

glad mesa
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ermm imagine what

uncut vessel
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I need to draw this actully

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fuck I need a screenshot

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so I can draw stuff

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a second

glad mesa
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thats what i want except no homing bullets just aim assist

uncut vessel
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yes

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that's peak

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I was trying to find that actully neat but I also have another idea-guys thingy I shall make and send now...

glad mesa
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unless you used HAZOPS which i think is affected weird

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but people feel like its crazzzzzy on xeno side the new SG

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particularly with stacking

uncut vessel
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SG stacking feels so strong from alien perspective yeap

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I just don't really enjoy it much

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personally

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because like in the end rifleman still has more DPS the way it makes them feel is a problem

glad mesa
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yeah i hate it

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ughhh

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i wish i knew how to code

uncut vessel
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same same...

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alt IFF should be considered btw

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someone coded it in RMC I believe.

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Alt IFF might be good for balancing it out

glad mesa
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yeah i do want alt IFF

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but i dislike it as an end solution

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let me look into that PR

uncut vessel
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also recoil comp

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should just be visual tbh

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it should still have scatter

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you just don't feel it

glad mesa
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im ngl recoil code is

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i DONT know how it works

uncut vessel
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its bad

glad mesa
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i need to check

uncut vessel
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its simply bad

glad mesa
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but it seems

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really bad

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which is

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insane for a fucking

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PVP server

uncut vessel
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I see

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I'll provide a image of my vision aswell

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when I get time

glad mesa
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okay thinking more on how aim assist would work

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id need to figure out:

  1. getting cursor location as the gun shoots? no as you click with agun then ig this code will go in and modify where its going
  2. calculate nearest valid target, distance from cursor to mob?
  3. designate valid targets based on IFF code
  4. figure out making new UI overlays ala medhud ig that goes above people and works for SG eyeset thing
  5. figure out MODIFYING that ui to designate everyone as possible targets BASED on if SG iff is on or of
  6. modifying gun shoot angle as amiddle man to not follow cursor
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what id ACTUALLY love is lowkey cursor being dragged to targets

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but that just sounds like potential issues despite being giga larp and also a lot of work

kind garden
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Sooo, we played some uhh

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DS :]

glad mesa
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if you got feedback say it

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as you can see im seeing a concerning lack of mald

kind garden
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Oh xenos malded in dead chat

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I was spectating or a lesser for the entire round

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Smartguns won every combat decisively

glad mesa
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did they stack

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i do dislike that

glad mesa
kind garden
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You get smartgunner AB and C on the front and game over, which massively compounded due to the reported still very inadequate fall-off and monsterous fire-rate combined with essentially rifle damage made USCM autorifleman worth like 4 slaws

glad mesa
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yeah i fucking hate SG stacking ill put it out there

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as a former SG main

kind garden
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Frankly I think SGs should only be strong WHEN they're stacking on their team, or with other SGs

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Which is why I think it needs a MAJOR damage nerf

wintry fulcrum
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i added damage fall back to it

glad mesa
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oh chip while youre here id like to ask

wintry fulcrum
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no

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just now

glad mesa
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  1. how easy is it to port alt IFF to sg iff specifically
kind garden
glad mesa
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  1. how hard is it to make aim assist for SG to replace auto fire
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code wise

kind garden
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I mean

granite sleet
glad mesa
granite sleet
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Current smart gun has it

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It’s just ass

glad mesa
kind garden
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Auto fire just already does the aim assist job, no?

glad mesa
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its aim assist not auto aim

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its different

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auto fire is conceptually fucking stupid and boring

granite sleet
glad mesa
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the point of the smartgun is it helps you hit targets

granite sleet
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That’s the lock on feature

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It’s just ass

kind garden
glad mesa
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its auto fire thats not aim assist

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thats DIFFERENT BROO

granite sleet
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Hm

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I’ll take a look

glad mesa
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THATS WHY ITS DOGSHIT

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the like

granite sleet
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I’ll fix it

glad mesa
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m,echanic id need

granite sleet
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It should auto target

glad mesa
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would need to be a weird middleman

glad mesa
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what i mean is

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it doesnt work at all for making aim assist

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i can chop up the shooting at set target part

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but id still need to write my own code for:

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1 finding cursor
2 calculating nearest valid target
3 telling that chopped off autofie code to shoot at that

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actually no i might be misremembering

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but auto fire might be too fucking slow sometimes still

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due to how edge of screen works

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and how slow bullets are

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genuinely auto fire is such a bad mechanic lazily implemented

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sorry for the ping @wintry fulcrum but i want to ask

  1. Would an alt IFF port from RMC specifically for SG be easy to do? I want to look into that atm
  2. How hard would it be to make an aim assist feature for SG? :
  • User clicks near target (maybe shown with overlay)
  • code checks if target is valid (iff or not)
  • Code then redirects gun to aim at the target, aiming the user's bullet at it
  • one footnote is i think this might fail to work with extra fast castes like runner if we use auto aim code for when it shoots and at what
granite sleet
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or

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space to lock on

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laser the lesser

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space on the queen

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die

glad mesa
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i want SG to be sovl not a weird version of sniper

granite sleet
glad mesa
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its called aiming

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aim assist does that better than lockon

glad mesa
wintry fulcrum
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not really hard

glad mesa
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but i also understand newmed v2 is way more important lmfao

granite sleet
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@cyan orchid can we agree sgo is ass rn 😭

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since supression isnt a thing i gotta basically PB my support weapon to do shit meaningfully

cyan orchid
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god bless

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aye

granite sleet
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im ivory btw

cyan orchid
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SG was good pre-nerf

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It was nerfed directly after xenos made a mistake

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And I capatalized on that

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Little annoying...

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@granite pawn this is what I was talking to you about in DMs

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I even liked when SGs were different per faction (i.e WeYu's faster fire rate)

granite sleet
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it was suppose to be a buff... but the damage falloff is so bad it takes like 20 shots HvH

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and a whole mag HvX

cyan orchid
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We've unga'd and havent gotten a single SG kill 🥹

granite sleet
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govfor killed 2 xenos that whole game

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both due to sadar

twilit whale
cyan orchid
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Next day, instant nerf

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🥀

twilit whale
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LIke

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Specifics man

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Map?

cyan orchid
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@wintry fulcrum Brotha I beg you... 🥹 Xenos make mald PRs so frequently straight after they lose a round

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We need balancetainers

granite sleet
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this was made by nzzy and me

twilit whale
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Im pretty sure nzzy was the one in charge of smartgun stuff

granite sleet
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over a week

twilit whale
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And kit apparently

granite sleet
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nzzy told me dmg wasnt gonna change

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so im like cool

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then i notice SGOs are

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how do i put this

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plant vs zombies base pea shooters

cyan orchid
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Ok maybe I was wrong then about mald PRs happening straight after rounds

granite sleet
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sure they killed a xeno in 18 seconds at 4 tiles

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thats assuming

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they dont move

twilit whale
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Chip does a lot of balance changes too

granite sleet
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and dont have any buffs

cyan orchid
granite sleet
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i LIKE the firate its cool af

twilit whale
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I dont think it needs to be reverted now

granite sleet
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i DONT like the damage

twilit whale
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Just needs a middle ground

cyan orchid
twilit whale
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Brother im in this round

cyan orchid
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We shot over 20 SG mags in total, all at same targets

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Thats...

twilit whale
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Again

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I think it needs middle ground

cyan orchid
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Correction, we used the entire bag

image.png
twilit whale
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Not saying it shouldnt be buffed again

cyan orchid
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17,500 rounds fired, not 1 kill

granite sleet
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i was carrying 9+1 mags.

I was empty 90% of the round

cyan orchid
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It was fine before that

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Like when I played xeno

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the SGs werent too damaging neither were they too tickilish

twilit whale
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Lol

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Dude

granite sleet
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on paper the kill time with 3 SGs shooting one rav should be 18.5/3, (6.31111 seconds) thats ASSUMING the rav is at 4 tiles, and all 3 SGs hit EVERY shot

twilit whale
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You shouldve been there for the shivas round

cyan orchid
twilit whale
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3 sgs doomstacking

twilit whale
cyan orchid
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Yeah thats the round Im talking about

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I realized xenos werent taking cover or having ranged castes

twilit whale
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They were pretty awful in xeno pov

cyan orchid
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Called the SGs to stick with me

twilit whale
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We were taking cover a lot

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But it was also uh

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Shivas

cyan orchid
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🤷‍♂️ Dont think it deserved the nerf because of how good we strategized

twilit whale
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I dont think sg doomstacking should be encouraged

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That's not strategy that's just cheese

ornate wing
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bro, there is jusst 4 of that gun in whole platoon

cyan orchid
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3*

bitter plover
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@cyan orchid

hundreds-of-roleplays-hundreds-of-hours-were-deleted-v0-bubn02msi6vg1.jpg
cyan orchid
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3 SGs

ornate wing
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let them cheese it

twilit whale
ornate wing
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wait sorry 3

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not even 4

twilit whale
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Did you even look at the raw values

cyan orchid
twilit whale
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No falloff mang

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That is a glorified machine gun

granite sleet
cyan orchid
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Oh there was no falloff?

granite sleet
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for ammo carrying and targetting

twilit whale
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Yes

ornate wing
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if we care about doomstacking all that much just remove IFF and un-obotomize it

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like

twilit whale
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We're getting alt IFF

cyan orchid
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I got your middle ground @twilit whale , just make it as large as how far you can see

twilit whale
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Eventually

granite sleet
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OG SGO had falloff

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it was just far

ornate wing
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who thought it would be fun to make it deal 2 damage

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after 5 tiles

cyan orchid
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Any further and it falls off so you dont snipe with it

ornate wing
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just remove IFF at that point bro

cyan orchid
granite sleet
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yes

cyan orchid
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WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MIND

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THOUGHT ITS A GOOD IDEA

twilit whale
granite sleet
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nzzy

cyan orchid
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💀

ornate wing
twilit whale
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That's all i had a problem with

ornate wing
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not joking

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not exxagerating

granite sleet
cyan orchid
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Just make the falloff as far as you can see

granite sleet
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nazzy didnt update GAU or deathsquad SG

cyan orchid
granite sleet
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so gau is still 9.3

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everything else is 10,0

ornate wing
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i am straight up going to put sgo to never

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untill it is playable again

granite sleet
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and i just hot fixed deahtsqaud SGO to do 40 damage a shot at 15 RPM

twilit whale
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I dont disagree that sgo is pretty shit rn

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I was spitter and they tickled me

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But it shouldnt be like before

ornate wing
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literally just sprite clicking with rifleman is 10 times more engaging than tickling toes of even t1 xenos

cyan orchid
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@granite sleet @glad mesa @twilit whale Just make the falloff as far as you can see, which is like what, 10 tiles?

granite sleet
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11.5

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  • type: GunToggleableAmmo
    settings:

    • damage:
      types:
      Piercing: 30
      armorPiercing: 0
      name: rmc-toggleable-ammo-highly-precise
      icon:
      sprite: _RMC14/Actions/marine_smart_gun_actions.rsi
      state: ammo_swap_normal
    • damage:
      types:
      Piercing: 20
      armorPiercing: 40
      name: rmc-toggleable-ammo-armor-shredding
      icon:
      sprite: _RMC14/Actions/marine_smart_gun_actions.rsi
      state: ammo_swap_ap

  • type: RMCSelectiveFire
    baseFireModes:

    • FullAuto
      recoilWielded: 3
      scatterWielded: 10
      baseFireRate: 10
      burstScatterMult: 4
      modifiers:
      FullAuto:
      maxScatterModifier: 4
      useBurstScatterMult: true
      unwieldedScatterMultiplier: 2
      shotsToMaxScatter: 80
    • type: RMCWeaponAccuracy
      accuracyMultiplier: 1.05
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@cyan orchid THIS IS CURRENT STATS

glad mesa
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just bring the first SG pr back if we get alt IFF

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the reason chip reigned it in is Sgs realized they could stack together and pull bullshit

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i reigned the base damage in because if i didnt it would be psychotic at close range

glad mesa
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youre leaving out the damage modifier and the falloff

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at this point bnring back old SG but delete the IFF for now ro some shit

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the actual solution is just alt IFF

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but im too busy to port that rn

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also there WAS falloff

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i just reduced it

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original PR values

image.png
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it is infact NOT just infinite range

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idfk why people are spreading misinfo

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you can READ YAML

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falloff was nuked this bad to compensate for damage being only 60% of before

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i extended the "0 DAMAGE" range to 14 tilesd

granite sleet
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nod nod

glad mesa
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here is what chip did

image.png
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please learn to read YAML 😭

granite sleet
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gg

glad mesa
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it does 0 damage because not only did falloff get back to default

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he also pulled back the range it starts kicking in to 4.5

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someone needs to port alt IFF PR from RMC for the SG

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then we can bring back my original smartgun rework

ornate wing
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NICE

glad mesa
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the M4RA has this

ornate wing
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but m4ra actually functions

glad mesa
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it really doesnt

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you need to boot localhost

ornate wing
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it does

glad mesa
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and actually test these things

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the M4RA has it at like

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15? around that range

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basira is the only gun ive touched to have longer 9999 falloff range

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READ THE NUMBERS BEFORE YOU SAY SHIT

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its not even dream maker its YAML

ornate wing
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you murdered my boyyy

cyan orchid
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looking at the damage values of the SG now makes me question who and why is someone approving these changes 🥀

glad mesa
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i did not do that bro

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chip did that bcs xenos malded insane due to SG stacking abusing it

cyan orchid
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1 prae

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can end it

ornate wing
cyan orchid
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1 boiler or 1 prae

ornate wing
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name it "colonial xenos universe"

glad mesa
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if someone wants to fix SG

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PORT ALT IFF

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then we can have our original good SG back

cyan orchid
ornate wing
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bro

cyan orchid
ornate wing
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JUST REVERT IT

glad mesa
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im busy

cyan orchid
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WHADDIYA MEAN "FIX SG"

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BRRRROOOOO

ornate wing
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this is crazy dude

glad mesa
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the hardest part is setting up localhost

ornate wing
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i am sorry but you lobotomize the gun because xenos mald and then tell us to "well if you dont like it fix it yourself chud"

cyan orchid
glad mesa
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ok so

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go into localhost

cyan orchid
glad mesa
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right click view variables on the gun

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look at all the vars a gun has

cyan orchid
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hell no man you broke it...

glad mesa
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check for keywords like falloff

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damaghe

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gun

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thats how i learned the names

cyan orchid
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i dont github contrib

glad mesa
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its not that hard

cyan orchid
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privacy reasons

glad mesa
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im telling other ppl to fix it because it is genuinely just YAML

cyan orchid
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i cant have SS14 in between machine learning forks

ornate wing
glad mesa
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fuckin' @uncut vessel or @granite sleet can make the fixes

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they know YAML

ornate wing
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if the one that lobotomized it wont bother un-lobotomizing it later

cyan orchid
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or them yeah

glad mesa
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so like not my fault bro

cyan orchid
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fellas, remember,

Marines are so much easier to kill & counter than xenos

ornate wing
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yeah am telling it to chip

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@wintry fulcrum

uncut vessel
glad mesa
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chip is mostly busy doing real coding

cyan orchid
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If a xeno is broken, marines lose 100% of the rounds

If a marine is broken, xenos might lose 10% more

glad mesa
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yea then go bother kit

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im fine with other people messing with the smartgun

ornate wing
cyan orchid
glad mesa
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let it be known my word is not law on the smartgun

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i just took it upon myself to make changes

ornate wing
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you gotta see how annoying this is here bro, he does something "not real coding" he has time for it, but then when asked to revert it he does not have time because he is doing real coding

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how did he had time to listen to marine malds and nerf it then in the first palce

twilit whale
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Btw

glad mesa
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yeah i wish someone else actually made the pr instead of chip

twilit whale
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But i guess you have to be specific

glad mesa
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i lowkey hate parsing chips PRs its so big

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😭

glad mesa
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but no it did not have zero falloff

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it had low falloff to compensate for the fact it was a pea shooter'd

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i intended to 100% buff it's range to work as a suppressive tool

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result: it works

ornate wing
glad mesa
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problem: it works ESPECIALLY WELL with IFF stack

ornate wing
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marines get the slightest buff, it immediately gets reverted and lobotomized 2 days later

glad mesa
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which i think is boring

ornate wing
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i dont understand

twilit whale
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Yea that's what i dont like

glad mesa
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again

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  1. Port alt IFF to SGO from an RMC14 PR
  2. disable IFF on all SGs as a temporary measure, bring back my old values completely
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these are your options

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if you want true SG aura back

ornate wing
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i lowkey want this to not repeat instead

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i am ngl

twilit whale
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Is there a pr open on rmc for alt iff?

glad mesa
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let me check

twilit whale
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Ive ported a pr once i can do it again but i need to finish what im doing

glad mesa
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you would need to figure out moving this from smartscope to SG

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but i think that wouldnt be insane

twilit whale
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Could just do it for both no

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Unless

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We dont want scope alt iff yet

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No promises i think

cyan orchid
glad mesa
cyan orchid
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I'm honestly shocked how the minority gets treated better

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Ok wait no...

glad mesa
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we dont even offer the smartscope ithink

cyan orchid
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Holup...

glad mesa
twilit whale
cyan orchid
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I meant xeno minority

glad mesa
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stare cool it with the anti xeno remarks

ornate wing
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getting smartgun to nerfed when you already win 90% of rounds is crazy work, actually listening to them and thunder nerfing it is crazy work, and then telling players to fix what was broken by a maint is also crazy work

twilit whale
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Also marines are never the minority

cyan orchid
glad mesa
cyan orchid
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I'll be anti xejo all I like if I wanted to

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Shit I could be anti marine

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Anti xeni

glad mesa
#

if you want it to be fixed you gotta do it yourself

cyan orchid
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Anti carp

uncut vessel
ornate wing
glad mesa
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i dont have the time rn to sit down and figure out a compromise Sg value or do alt iff port

ornate wing
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if i fix this myself how do i know chip not gonna nerf another thing next day cuz a grand total of 10 xenos malded about it

cyan orchid
ornate wing
#

then i'll have to fix that too cuz chip does not have time

glad mesa
ornate wing
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"you gotta fix it yourself man sorry" is not a great argument for something you did yourself

glad mesa
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my hands are jsut tied bro

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if you want it fixed that is the only solution i can offer

glad mesa
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there's 2 stages of falloff for SG

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well like 3

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pre-falloff where there is zero damage changes

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first falloff where it's like -4 on default per tile, -1.5 on mine

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2nd falloff is 12 default 14 on mine

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where it does 0 damage beyond that range

ornate wing
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also in general forcing a obnoxious falloff on smartgun is counter-productive both effectivity wise and gameplay fun wise

glad mesa
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if i remember correctly these dont work like 7+12 but rather 7th tile then 12th tile

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so SG range was 12 tiles max on default

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14 tiles max on mine

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after that zero damage

ornate wing
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by making him useless on range you are encouraging smartgunner to play like rifleman pointman and steal the positioning of riflemen that does not have IFF guns to shoot

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so they constantly have to fight with one of the three dudes in the whole platoon to have any sightline to xeno targets at all which does not makes any sense at all

glad mesa
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idk what you want me ot say man

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i was trying my best to fix it

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got busy

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chip saw i was busy saw people were abusing IFF to make laser beams

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so he just did some rough tweaks then went back to doing his usual shit

cyan orchid
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@glad mesa its a good opportunity to ask maintainers to start paying attention to what they merge

glad mesa
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so thats where we're at

ornate wing
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if it turns out cheeks

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or have copy of it is old version of something at the very least so we can revert it to how it was before

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instead of finding an entirely new solution to it

glad mesa
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i will say

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i think someone accidentally fucked with the smartgun somehow

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chip only edited one value

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but i see other values are different

ornate wing
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at this point the original smartgun is more preferable

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like

glad mesa
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the max range is 12

ornate wing
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cant we just return to that?

glad mesa
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on chip's PR

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which is weird because it was 14 on mine

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so something happened inbetween our PRs

ornate wing
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fuck rpm, fuck damage, get us back to old smartgun

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one with 4.0 rpm

glad mesa
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but i dont think it was intentional seeing as no changelog was made

cyan orchid
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I agree with keeping each GOVFOR SG unique

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As in revert all the changes to SGs

ornate wing
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make ammos more rare too if there is a complaint with sgo not running out of ammo

glad mesa
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for what its worth i do believe somewone fucked up smartgun values to be both my values and default

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like

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somethings weird abt chip's PR

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its only 1 line change to falloff range but other values are different

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so

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fuck if i know

#

again im literally gone for like ~2 weeks

#

if nobodys fixeds it when im back ill fuck with it again

glad mesa
#

my original intention was ONLY changing the USCM sg

#

BUT

#

all the other fucking SGs parented theirs off the USCM one

#

so yeah now all of them are fuckin shooting fast

#

like look

#

i get your concerns but like man

#

i tried my best bro

#

i will give it another shot when im free

#

im sorry we had to fucking change it around bcs we're unorganized

#

i feel demotivated to work on this if people are just gonna say i shouldnt have ever done this and we should go back to vanilla bcs i just said "sorry bro im in a bind and you either fix it yourself or ask chip to do it and hope hes got the time still to do that"

#

ive been explaining how the YAML for this works and how these tweaks you want are easily PRable

#

besides alt IFF

twilit whale
#

Nzzy just tell me the values you would do for no IFF sg if you have time

ornate wing
#

i am sorry if it came off negative but it is lowkey a common courtesy to finish what you start, for whoever made the smartgun the way it is now

twilit whale
#

I'll probably fuck with it i dontgot time for alt iff yet

glad mesa
twilit whale
ornate wing
#

i dont know how you guys look at it but to me starting something and saying you dont have time to fix it so i have to fix it if i dont like is kind of rude too

glad mesa
#

if that feels too good still

glad mesa
#

we're not 24/7

#

so things are just fucking disorganzied and a lot of PRs happen

glad mesa
#

i speak like this man sorry

ornate wing
#

nah its fine but i was mostly talking to chip anyways

glad mesa
#

make it 2

#

or 2.25

#

either way im of the belief

#

my odl SG rework with no IFF would be fine

#

the actual issue is if the no IFF component would fucking work...

#

GAU has it off but it somehow still has it on

#

either GAU fucked it up or the disable component is broken

ornate wing
#

can't you just make its code like a normal gun

glad mesa
#

no

#

it needs other Sg stuff still

#

MD, recoil comp

ornate wing
#

i mean am ngl make recoil value zero, and personally MD is not that needed

#

give it to its goggles?

#

nobody uses "shoot single target every once in a while" anyways it is jusst a noob trap to drain battery power

glad mesa
#

ive got my own plans for reworking recoil comp

#

but that is neither here nor there

ornate wing
#

and i would say no AP on/off switch is also acceptable

glad mesa
#

doing all that to get no IFF is insane

#

just better off fixing no IFF

ornate wing
#

i mean according to you it doesnt work

#

and i would bet figuring out why it does not work would take longer than doing what i said

glad mesa
#

nah theres probably some hacksaw fix we could do

#

like just deleting the mechanic itself..

#

i think either EG's IFF changes broke it somehow

#

or our codebase just decided to be evil like it always does

#

anyhow ireally gtg now

cyan orchid
#

I genuinely dont think there needs to be any middle ground

#

The change came after the result of one-three rounds

#

The strategy never became the "meta", and xenos never attempted to adapt to it yet

#

I'd say to completely undo any SG changes

#

They were fine before any touches

#

I think certain SGs should be able to have no damage fall off while others not

#

That is a change I could agree to

#

Assuming we go back to the old SG

#

All SGs should have a minimum of 11.5 tiles

twilit whale
#

But idk pointless arg

#

Ill see what i can do

cyan orchid
#

And I have to say,

#

So what?

#

Theres only THREE smartgunners

#

With all those counters? You can bet your ass if the xenos wanted to target SGs they'll take them out within 10 minutes

astral scarab
#

what aoe stuns?

#

also, ranged attacks aren't a counter, that's kinda the problem with removing falloff

cyan orchid
#

Area of Effect

astral scarab
#

I know what AOE means

ornate wing
# cyan orchid SG Counters: - AOE stuns - Ranged attacks - Fast moving xenos(A single frenzy pr...

hedgehog ravager is just a straight up smartgunner counter, you can break formation and cohesion with opressor prae, a well placed boiler door snipe fucks up smartgunners, and overall nobody can really play smartgunner well anyways, even before nerf you usually ended up with guys that played it like pointman and got captured 10 minutes in, the menace smartgunner that never dies is gonna be as rare as a good xeno player, maybe even rarer

cyan orchid
#

Same with Bulwark

ornate wing
#

if anything the current problem is newmed2, ranged attacks wont do anything to smartgunner now but the reason is not smartgunner having or not having damage faloff or anything about the gun itself, it is jusst newmed2, everytime you spit at me i can take a step back, click on myself with ointment and be like new 10 seconds later,

cyan orchid
#

wut...

#

here I gotta call you out

ornate wing
#

it wasnt like this at newmed1 slowly you stacked eschar or your limb health went down

cyan orchid
#

newmedv2 made me heavily heavily dependant on a corpsman

ornate wing
#

because your playstyle is agressive to compensate for crazy faloff so you get hit by xenos constantly

#

no amount of spitters or base praes will make you need a corpsman

#

as long as you dont lose a limb or die now you can just go back, spam click yourself with ointment/gauze, chug a tricordrazine pill and be fine 30-45 seconds later

cyan orchid
ornate wing
#

i believe in testing their patience and waiting for a mistake to punish over-extension or a slip-up against a sadar but it is just different views so

kind garden
#

Like

#

Before this braindead shit happened

#

or excuse me

#

pre-whatever the fuck this feedback thread did to it

#

the smartguns were cool and interesting with their different firerates

#

have some be stronger than others ig

#

but like

#

THE issue was the falloff, was it not?

#

@glad mesa

#

My suggestion is beside that, whatever this did, destroy it

#

this thread

#

you're gonna tell me with a straight face it's basically an M13 or whatever the fuck the autopistol on CM is called now

#

This thing reads like literally every cook possible was in the kitchen and they fucked it up horrendously

kind garden
# kind garden <@404564366122287105>

I didn't have an issue with the smartguns besides them just straight not having fall-off (if I remember right) before whatever the changes that started this thread did to it

#

I new shit was gonna be bad when the opening line to the thread was "You know, I think I made one of the factions turbo strong 😜"

kind garden
#

Like fr tho, the smartguns should not have infinity range but don't incentivize me to get up in the warrior's face and get nuked for adequate damage eitehr

glad mesa
#

i dont know why people believe it has zero falloff

#

no the issue was IFF stacking plain and simple

glad mesa
#

i increased the range at which SG bullets do zero damage by 2 tiles

#

i reduced the per tile damage reduction from 4 to 1.5

#

but keep in mind i multiplied its original damage by 0.6

#

it was intended as a falloff buff so it could work as a suppressive tool and it did that but people took it to the extreme with IFF stacking

#

compounding with high ROF which due to lag compensation is powerful

#

i did not account for IFF stacking exacerbating a somewhat overtuned gun into hilariously broken

kind garden
glad mesa
#

please do not inform yourself of the raw numbers based on deadchat mald

#

otherwise im fine with mald feedback

#

but saying it literally does zero falloff is crazy

kind garden
glad mesa
#

i tested its raw DPS and compared an M41A

#

it was shockingly similar at edge of screen

#

the reason it feels crazy is accuracy

#

since people run m41a full auto

glad mesa
#

subjectively the CM SG lacks aura and does not feel like a machine gun

#

its a weird IFF cuck tool

kind garden
#

Like the xenos did not have fun

glad mesa
#

it was a sniper because people stacked 3 SGs

kind garden
#

Which like

#

If it tends to do that, why not balance it around that

glad mesa
#

i wanted to add alt iff

#

is the answer

#

but got busier than i thought

#

i dislike SG stacking myself its fucking stupid

kind garden
#

There's really not a way to get it not to happen

#

Frontline mode ig??

glad mesa
#

its called not having current IFF

#

aka alt IFF

#

which is also frontline mode btw

#

thats how frontline mode works

kind garden
#

yes

#

this is true 🗣️

glad mesa
#

like

#

im not opposed to feedback

#

you do not have to come in here and mald me bcs i agree it was broken

#

but like it absolutely had okay falloff the fact people figured out stacking it tripled its DPS

#

which made it psychotic at range

#

we would have a similar issue if we could IFF ops with M4RA

twilit whale
#

Is this still going

#

I got 0 sleep so nothing from me today in terms of making changes

glad mesa
#

someone repeated no falloff verbatim 🥹

kind garden
glad mesa
#

i swear guys stop trusting deadchat mald

#

they are not reliable at pointing out the solution but they can point out when something sucks

#

before the real SG mald day kicked in

#

we had the SGs on DS and nobody complained

#

because none of the SGs stacked

kind garden
#

Yes

glad mesa
#

i was begging people for feedback and got none

#

so like...ok i guess even xeno players dont mind

granite sleet
glad mesa
kind garden
#

And they currently can stack at any time they wish

glad mesa
#

yeah i dont agree with stacking existing

kind garden
#

I'm not personally a fan of alt IFF and I think other solutions can be made

twilit whale
glad mesa
#

nah alt IFF works

twilit whale
#

But here we are

glad mesa
#

i have other logistical complaints about SG i need to load onto the role in the future

kind garden
#

It works, but it would make it annoying for me personally, and for a good amount of others I imagine

glad mesa
#

buuut i need

#

aim assist to justify allat

#

which ehhh im not coding anytime soon

glad mesa
#

you get genuine SG aura but you actually have to position

kind garden
kind garden
#

Personally I don't think alt IFF would necessarily change the issue of them being absolutely insane when they stack besides having to step to the side, which is what I think you mean by them having aura, them doomstacking still isn't any more fun for the xenos once they do

#

I'm saying all of this because even way before, SGOs were already individually the best kill you can get in terms of value

#

I feel like I'm losing my mind house

glad mesa
#

and medics

glad mesa
#

alt iff means i actually need to care about whos near me and frontline sometimes to get my dps out there

#

which means: vulnerable to MELEE or having to position constantly --> less focus on max dps downrange

#

this will help a lot more than you think because any injuries you cause induce SG downtime

#

alt iff increases the likelyhood of injuries (esp on highpop!) a lot more

#

this effectively means a reduction in sg uptime

kind garden
#

I was showering

kind garden
#

Or 2 per tile, suppression is important but like I'd instead think having actual mounted weapons (where the fuck is the M56D) be good at longer ranges would be cooler

glad mesa
#

sorta

#

i would like to flesh out faction identity more eventually

#

UA and WEYU should imo be the most heavily reliant on SGs

#

LACN lugs around their kramers

#

UPP has some SGs but...yeah chud pack that machine gun

#

RMC needs a bren gun

#

i need to make a harrington rifle gunsprite down the line as SG predecessor

kind garden
#

UPP machine gun IMO is the most cag of them all, actually the coolest feeling for suppressing fire

glad mesa
#

ive seen UPP MGs stack up

#

the aura is insane

#

for now i want to get base smartgun feeling good

#

then i start personalizing balance

kind garden
#

something something prediction

glad mesa
#

SGs are insanely fast yeah

#

im okay with that for USCM SG and WEYU

#

but i dislike that for the others sorta

glad mesa
#

so idk i cant imagine the annoyance in this scenario

#

it just happens to me constantly regardless

kind garden
#

Mfw I die round the corner to bro's bullets

glad mesa
#

ive been tackled from 5 tiles away

#

let me find a clip..

#

fackk cant send it

arctic basin
#

can you extend some of this kindness to the govfors that dont get smartguns

#

all of them get juiced in five minutes because this was the only marine buff