#total weapons overhaul: fun included

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

teal prairie
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Hello fellow CMUs, today we'll discuss weapons and why they suck or give to suck and how we can balance them to ensure fun for both sides.

For introduction, we'll compare AG80 to other main rifles and SMGs, including whole platoons compare to understand why some guns suck and other dont.
Lets get into pure numbers:
AG80 has 40 dmg per bullet, 60 bullets in normal mags, 99 in extended. Firerate is 3.9 bps (bullets per second).
L90 has 40 dmg per bullet, 40 bullets in normal mags, 30 (as a bug) in extended. Firerate is 4 bps.
M41A Mk2 is pretty much the same as L90.
M41A Mk1 is one of the best guns you can get - 44 dmg per bullet, 95 per mag. Firerate is 4 bps.
And probably the best AR, L23: 50 damage with 10 AP, 30 bullets per mag. Firerate is 2.75 bps.
Lets count aprox. DPS per every gun with time needed to empty magazine [DPS/Time to empty mag[s]] and get efficiency by mult it:
AG80: 156 / 15s = 2340
L90/Mk2: 160 / 10 = 1600
Mk1: 176 / 23 = 4048
L23: 137.5 / 10 = 1375

Now, how can we understand this data? Pretty simple, in theory, - the more - better - the longer we can provide higher DPS, the more chances we can win. At Top 1 we get Mk1 - pretty reasonable, and, surprisingly, the second is AG80. After that there's L90/Mk2 and the last one is L23. But, in reality, we get field dominated by L23 and Mk1, where AG80 massively underperforms. Why is that, you may ask - scatter, my friends. L23 has almost none scatter, Mk1 and L90/Mk2 have managable scatter, and AG80 even after buffs still has massive scatter while having incredible 1.75 accuracy with extended stock.
L90 has 5 scatted wielded, Mk2 6, Mk1 4, L23 4, and AG80 8. While we could simply change AG's scatter to 5 or 6, i feel like Mk1 is simply opie.

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Now lets divide by our scatter:
AG80: 292.5
L90: 320
Mk1: 1012
Mk2: 266.7
L23: 343.75
And while we ignore proper accuracy value, we still get a better understanding that something is not right.

Thus, imo we should change to a system with more standartised weapon stats divided by groups: Battle Rifles, Assault Rifles, SMGs, where every group will dominate in either Long Ranges, Mid Ranges or Close Ranges, giving around 150-170 DPS in their field, not including unique weapons such as CMB's P90 or UACG's guns - for what i call "non-conventional" factions.

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As base example for BR we'll copy-paste L23 as I am biased towards BR's godo:

    recoilUnwielded: 4
    scatterWielded: 4
    scatterUnwielded: 20
    baseFireRate: 2.75
    burstScatterMult: 1
    modifiers:
      Burst:
        fireDelay: 0.1665
        maxScatterModifier: 6
        useBurstScatterMult: true
        unwieldedScatterMultiplier: 2
        shotsToMaxScatter: 6
      FullAuto:
        fireDelay: 0
        maxScatterModifier: 6
        useBurstScatterMult: true
        unwieldedScatterMultiplier: 2
        shotsToMaxScatter: 4
  - type: RMCWeaponAccuracy
    accuracyMultiplier: 1.3
    accuracyMultiplierUnwielded: 0.7```
Mags capacity: 20-40
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As base example for AR's we'll take Mk2 as it is just a solid gun

    scatterWielded: 6
    scatterUnwielded: 20
    baseFireRate: 4
    burstScatterMult: 1
  - type: RMCWeaponAccuracy
    accuracyMultiplier: 1.3
    accuracyMultiplierUnwielded: 0.6```
Mags capacity: 40-60
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And for SMG's we'll take M39 as it is solid overall:

    recoilUnwielded: 1
    scatterWielded: 14
    scatterUnwielded: 14
    baseFireRate: 6.667
    burstScatterMult: 4
    modifiers:
      Burst:
        fireDelay: 0.0999
        maxScatterModifier: 10
        useBurstScatterMult: true
        unwieldedScatterMultiplier: 2
        shotsToMaxScatter: 6
      FullAuto:
        maxScatterModifier: 3
        useBurstScatterMult: true
        unwieldedScatterMultiplier: 2
        shotsToMaxScatter: 4
  - type: RMCWeaponAccuracy
    accuracyMultiplier: 1
    accuracyMultiplierUnwielded: 0.7
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Mag capacity: 50-70

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  • the M39 would've score of:
    226 / 7s = 1582
    113 by the way
    very shitty at long/mid ranges but solid in CQC
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The general idea is that BR's tend to have lower DPS * time to empty mag, but with less scatter, AR's tend to have more DPS * time to empty mag but more scatter, and SMG's have high DPS with low time to empty mag, with higher scatter

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The AG80 fails in this world because of low accuracy (rather scatter) AND RoF, making it neither AR nor SMG for some reason (i am biased against UPP godo)

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The unique weapons, such as Mk1, P90, M39B2, L90, ABR40, will stay the same, as they are unicorn guns for their platoons

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On the other hand, underperforming weapons, such as Type 71, M16, MP5, Type 64, and hellish AG80, will be buffed, making them viable weapons for their factions.
Guns that CLF uses will generally stay the same, as they CLF, from my understanding (except ofc 3rd parties), is not expected to be viable frontline faction

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Also, something like MAR-50 would be cool for CMB instead of freaking chinese MG godo But we shall see if Dryfuses CMB SG will be finished

round fog
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Perhaps weapons could be differentiated slightly based on the goals of the faction using them (roughly like real life counterparts).

So for example, since the Brit rifle is bullpup but rifle length, it has a slightly lower cyclical rate, less spread, but per shot spread increases slightly faster during rapid fire as the weight is in the back of the gun so it bounces around more when shooting?

This would translate to TWE marines using shorter and sharper bursts to attack. So they would be slightly better off in attritional and longer range fights.

Also make their guns not dogshit versus CLF and pulse rifles thanks.

Angry British noises

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Many levers to pull with weapons, starting with making any faction's guns viable as long as used correctly. CLF crap should jam a lot or come with low armour pen or low mag capacity as they aren't using caseless ammunition.

Ammunition and item weight anyone? Would certainly force CLF into guerilla action Vs forces who can fit 90 rounds in a stick mag.

teal prairie
edgy crane
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I think guns are fine the way they are. Just make the Kramer do more damage.

dark pendant
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the kramer is supposed to be some hard hitting/slow fire rate rifle

teal prairie
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I'll check its stats

novel bobcat
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as ive said: kramer bipod godo

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also, how much is it's mag capacity?

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we dont yet actually have a gun that goes up to 95 rounds for standard rifles like canon m41a

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if i need to burst shoot (like scatter rampup goes insane after 3 accurate burst) but i get 95 round mag no need to reload id be happy