UPP territorial guard rework

[modest adder]

I have been thinking about how little to-no western european the UPP is even tho they control a lot of it.
The main idea behind this is to completely rework the territorial guard into a more german/swiss looking force instead of the chinese/russian style they inherited from the naval forces, basically giving them a more unique look and arsenal.
Expect something similar to how the LACN and USCM differenciate even tho they are part of the same faction.

Mostly a space for sharing and talking planning for the far future
may happen, may not.

Some pics it may be based on

[remote kiln]

Can we get some Polish Peaked Caps such as these (they're officially called Rogatywkas)

[modest adder]

Anyone with cool ideas for this please share 🙏

[modest adder]

JW GROM

Poland

They even got a mf with the smartgun rig on the left side 😭

Modern time are shit

Before the 2000 we had unique crazy looks on all militaries of the world

Now everyone uses the same shit

[modest adder]

@quaint hound imma drag your ass here for a opinion on this

(sorry🙏)

[quaint hound]

imo look into swedish and yugoslav gear

[cedar karma]

honetly the biggest inspirations for territorials aught to be swedish and german

germany as one of the THREE FOUNDING NATIONS OF THE UPP is criminally under represented

[quaint hound]

i agree but also we have better systems to give germans cool special snowflake units

[cedar karma]

we have to work on undoing the over representation of china in the UPP military while retaining a presence

[quaint hound]

better thing to do imo is having territorials be centrla asia + east europe with a mix of russian chinese german gear
germans get their own unique detachments and gear down the line

[cedar karma]

increased russian german and yugo/polish representation

[quaint hound]

look look russia they

[cedar karma]

the only issue with that is naval inf is already central asia and eastern europe

[quaint hound]

if we increase russia any more the Z larp is gonna be bad

[cedar karma]

you'd just be further increasing the already existing over representation issue

so either naval inf needs a make over

or terries need to be the diversity

[quaint hound]

UPP in general needs a makeover..

[cedar karma]

yeah

[quaint hound]

iirc we kinda fuckin merged our naval inf anyway?

with llike the other half

[cedar karma]

the current gear is nice....but naval inf is JUST russians with chinese guns right now excepting the 4047 and german AG80

it is BLEAK

[quaint hound]

germans only having one gun..

truly crazy

[cedar karma]

CM13 PVP and it's consequences for UPP

[quaint hound]

the recession cantbe that bad bro

[cedar karma]

others have been sprited on PVE

but we've yet to port them and i dont recall if they ever got full merge'd

[quaint hound]

fuuck let me pull up cm13 pve codebase

[cedar karma]

PVE is doing it's own slow diversification of the UPP

but it's a backburner project

so im unsure how much progress has been finalized

[modest adder]

And the ag80 is ugly 😔

I don't like it

Never did

[cedar karma]

i mean

it's a utilitarian design

it's also design wise perfectly functional

it fits for a communist/socialist german firearm

especially one not hamstrung by being a soviet puppet

why waste resources on niceties and features that would never get used

you forget there's 2 flavors of german military design

overomplicated and maybe quality

and unbreakable parts perfected brick

[modest adder]

The germans may become their own thing

[cedar karma]

yeah but this is aliens

everyone is more or less recognizable doctrinally

and cold war east german design doctrine even paired with more modern HK and MOD projects

has never TRULY changed

in all of germanies long military design history

it's either fancy and expensive usually iterated on sortof "craftsman" style production

or industrial bricks

with the latter becoming more and more common as time has gone on ironically

just with the usual bells and whistles expected on military hardware

the 416 for example

is JUST a piston AR built to better than market standard specs

with a flat top rail

[modest adder]

Less gun nerding and more military fashion CT

We gotta set up their drip and aesthetic first

[cedar karma]

yeah and german military fashion is outdated camo and bricks

tank? brick

gun? brick

uniform?

same as everyone else but in a old as balls camo

east germany?

gun? russian

tank? russian

helmet? wierd hybrid design of old and new

uniform? fucking russian

[modest adder]

Tbh i want it to be the more "western" side of the UPP

[cedar karma]

consult the first 3 points of german design

[modest adder]

East germany is just soviet

[cedar karma]

brick brick old as balls

[modest adder]

We wanna get as far as possible from soviet shit

[cedar karma]

so we're gonna fall under cold war and early modern german military aesthetics

aka G3's and bricks with legacy camo patterns

[modest adder]

Germans gonna be keep aside from the territorial guard

They got to much cool shit and tbh dont fit the shitty grunts army style

[cedar karma]

if we wanted a more UNIQUE german aesthetic

and not just

flecktarn and bricks

[modest adder]

The territorial guard suppose to be

[cedar karma]

could look to some special units

falschirmjaegerzug wouldn't be bad

have them be UPP paratroopers

to avoid the VDV

[modest adder]

Sounds good tbh

[cedar karma]

toss em the unique helmet

[modest adder]

No more Z shit

[cedar karma]

for sanities sake and because it makes no sense DONT give them flecktarn

much as knowing real life

they'd still be fucking wearing it

[modest adder]

Sorry buddy

[cedar karma]

as for rifles?

[modest adder]

Flecktarn will be

[cedar karma]

maybe some hybrid design of G36 and G3 with a bit of G11 tossed in

[modest adder]

Or this

[cedar karma]

or if we want to be funny

hear me out

we aliensify

the STA52

with the underbarrel shotgun

and integrated sight

[modest adder]

That shit is horrible

What is it supposed to be

[cedar karma]

helican belt drum based magazine

that's from KZ1

it has a single shot slam action shotgun

and a integrated sight G36 OG style

the belt thats coiled in the drum because yes

this uses a quick belt system like the IRL ultimax drums

for relaible and easy feed

managing to cram 52 full size cased rounds into a relatively tiny drum

singaporean ultimax 100 for refgerence

no that drum is not a simple yugo AK style one

it's a 100 round compact belt feed drum

that needs no manual allignment or feed assistance to begin firing

this means UNLIKE most rifle drums

it feeds reliably

it just has the added downside of also spitting links everywhere

ironically for as much as NZZY called the STA52 FAMAS looking

this is a VHS-2

which ironically has more in common with the FAMAS even if it LOOKS german

[cedar karma]

simply curve the over handle to fix the looks

and use the back end from 2-3's design

[modest adder]

sorry dude thats gonna be for the french

the rifles kinda

looks like smgs

[cedar karma]

sorry the french are already built off of this one hard image

[cedar karma]

also size comparison of the LMG11 and the MG3

with the SAME ammo load

the LMG11 could fit 6 MG3 quick drums worth of ammunition

just ready to rock

[quaint hound]

new rifle just dropped per thwomper

german color scheme imo

mags

[whole barn]

Doesn’t PVE already have the French?

[cedar karma]

that's.....what i was telling them

the french in PVE we're workshopped off that image

and some of the FELIN program designs

[whole barn]

Real

[modest adder]

first attemp at german flecktarn

not successful

[stone coral]

Also, alpenflagen can be an option. You did mention the swiss

[brazen olive]

Dont forget that we will get german KSK

[brazen olive]

The TG was supposed to be Ukrainian. Hence why they are called TG in the first place as well as they use yellow armbands.

I dont mind rework tho and would like to see more unique gear

[modest adder]

yeah we wanna make the territorial more west european

germany was supposed to be a big part of the territorial guard but with nzzy decided to keep them out of it and them being their own thing

[whole barn]

https://tenor.com/view/buynov-vdv-desant-gif-20196192

need UPP parachute op so bad

[brazen olive]

We already had that

Went canonically

[quaint hound]

instead of vdv bouta be fallschirmjäger cagmaxxers

[quaint hound]

btw on this all the colors irl are milder and a little bluer on closer inspection i think

[brazen olive]

https://youtu.be/tuwvE80wQak?is=exWQSswM0a9yW7XZ

https://youtu.be/joe1F1lKUYI?is=qEjGMJlNEB9cnC7H

Non trap remix also

[modest adder]

imma be honest with you nzzy

my shitty chinese TV i got for a monitor causes a lot of trouble on color distinction

[modest adder]

getting anywhere?

[brazen olive]

I like grayish uniform

Not sure about tan pigment on the armor tho..

[quaint hound]

use a phone

[quaint hound]

grrr uniform shading off again
too tan, need to make it brighter and slightly more orange

[quaint hound]

ermm ngl for the uniform at this point just recolor CCA one its kinda cooked

[quaint hound]

camo wise bit too bright now although orange levels are ok

lowkey toss a brown in the mix maybe so the colors match better

[quaint hound]

crazy how the singing is let down by gods chillest instrumental

[brazen olive]

it surely lacks instrumental but it has soul in it

pure singing is has so much power

i think that was one of the reasons trap remix was created lol

[quaint hound]

"life wants to be won" 🔥💯🗣️

goofy ahh language

[brazen olive]

yeah what about your country's march songs

[remote kiln]

I mean it'd just be better if it was multiple variations of uniforms you could pick from

like German/Swiss, Polish, Spanish

[modest adder]

germans aint gonna be part of the territorial guard

they gonna be paratroopers

[modest adder]

Detachment

[modest adder]

Lowkey i give up on the camo

[remote kiln]

Polish military Khaki uniforms or normal olive green russian ones

it's literally gonna just be different colors of the normal UPP fatigues

[quaint hound]

good ngl

i dont want to set the standard of doing camos

i had to work a lot to make mine sorta work

still looks like puke

[modest adder]

No recolored UPP stuff

[rotund hornet]

Spain should also be an influence given they're part of the UPP as well

[modest adder]

I forgot about that

[quaint hound]

spanish detachment when

[brazen olive]

when you add sprites

:godo;

[modest adder]

Spanish legionnaires improving morale with their tight uniforms

[modest adder]

We should 100% have the spanish legionnaires as a FOF really cheap reinforcement

Just 3 guys without armors in those silly uniforms

[modest adder]

If someone can find some cool stuff from spain please share

From what i have seen they are quite "generic"

[whole barn]

Goofy future warrior program

[modest adder]

Peak actually

[modest adder]

Lowkey the AG80 should be resprited onto an HK g36 type gun

This doesnt look confortable

[whole barn]

There’s a reason this shit never became official lol

[cedar karma]

least obese future warrior program rifle "it's trying to be another OICW"

and since it's built off a G36 that GL and optic are putting ALL of the weight either just above or forward of the grip

meaning it'd be a bitch to hold at ready

[modest adder]

AG80 resprite to a sci-fi G36?

[whole barn]

nah AG80 is the UPP m41

just using a PPS or a PPSH instead of a thompson

[remote kiln]

Make them use the Type 71

we have it, they use it in all other CM servers and it's realistically what'd they use alongside the Type 64 SMG, in addition they're both basically just the QBZ-95 and Bizon SMG respectfully

[modest adder]

The whole point of this rework is making the UPP less chinese/russian

[modest adder]

G11 pulled from the thwomper files

[quaint hound]

enough chinese slop

[quaint hound]

imo metal part of stock on bottom g3 too thick

i would say make it look more futuristic looking but i dont rlly have any ideas rn so

[modest adder]

idk man i wanna keep it looking like a somewhat outdated rifle, like its gonna do the job but still nothing compared to stuff like M41a

most UPP guns kinda looked like their IRL counterparts before the FTE sloppening

fallschirmjäger

[quaint hound]

whats the mask supposed to be

[quaint hound]

and ngl upper uniform on left guy still kinda wonky

get more colors in there..

[modest adder]

idk, just slapped some pixels to see how the color looks

[quaint hound]

buddy you gotta learn shading...im sorry...

just visualize it in your head

make 3d render in brain

unless youre one of those sorry fucks who cant do that

[quaint hound]

also, caseless or no?

[modest adder]

The G3s no

[quaint hound]

all is well then

me and my 100 year old remodernized rechambered G3s

[stone coral]

Remove the ammo counter. Idk why, bit adding an ammo counter to every gun just feels funny

[cloud olive]

How else am I supposed to know when the gun's empty?????

[quaint hound]

well tbh the only issue is that everyones ammo counter is somehow standardized and looks the same

its not that silly its just we get lazy spriting it

[wicked ore]

Alienified HK guns....

[modest adder]

getting somewhere i believe

[cloud olive]

Beautiful. Is the gas mask integral to the helmet? Looks a little like the gas mask goes all the way up to where the helmet turns green (BiMex chads won't have this issue )

[modest adder]

kind of the final look

[brazen olive]

Holy shit

[cloud olive]

The green visors hit 🎯

[cloud olive]

Love modernised FAL. G11 had better have the 2000 RPM 3 round hyper burst or the crowds will RIOT (I will riot)

[wicked ore]

Doesn’t look quite as ragtag and undersupplied anymore, but I like it

[brazen olive]

Because it is falschirmjager

[modest adder]

not the territorial guard yet, just a detachment of it

[modest adder]

territorial guard and the falschirmjager

[modest adder]

WIP

[wicked ore]

Mmmm G3....

[quaint hound]

btw change the fg stock

well not stock sorry grip

sokme of them have this cool ass giga angled grip which looks more sci fi and is distinctive

type E i believe

[modest adder]

🫡

[cedar karma]

early model versus late model FG-42's yeah

type 2 FG-42

[modest adder]

Type 2 superior tbh

[cedar karma]

type 1

[quaint hound]

stinky real gun instead of the perfect star wars prop

[cedar karma]

oh far as reliability and actual ergenomics?

the type 2 as better in almost every way

[quaint hound]

oh 100% that type 1 grip looks disgusting

[cedar karma]

it also saw slightly more production

[quaint hound]

id kms holding it

[cedar karma]

though there weren't THAT many of either kind made to begin with

[quaint hound]

but we dont need to care about that ingame

[modest adder]

Yeah that grip looks horrid

Would ruin your hand

But sci fi needs horrid stuff

[cedar karma]

i am told it's not THAT bad if your prone while using it

or it's set up on a bipod down low

but yeah

[quaint hound]

but its a paratrooper gun lol

[cedar karma]

not exactly an ideal pistol grip design

[modest adder]

Yeah that, shit gotta hurt to shoot standing

[quaint hound]

also ngl MG at the top a little crusty still

avoid 1x1 holes

trust me

they are uhh

[cedar karma]

i mean the FG-42 was intended to replace the MG34/42 the k98 and the MP40 in falschirmjaeger service so they could stop using the fucken pod drops for their long guns

[quaint hound]

you cant make them work :(

[cedar karma]

in the end however

german paratroopers mostly got relegated to purely grounded operations

and the FG-42 only ever actually got shipped out to a few paratrooper units of some renown

where it was used similarly to a BAR and the existing self loading rifles

history lesson aside

gun look cool

and for aesthetics type 1 is more spacey

[quaint hound]

btw as for SMGs

i will glaze the aesthtics of the PM-63 RAK

polish

trying to find smth cool for spain rn

[modest adder]

I been looking for some spain stuff

They mostly just use the same as germany

[quaint hound]

its a little bleak i wont lie

[modest adder]

Yeah

[quaint hound]

heres the pistols i found

what if 1911 was more tacticool or wtv

idfk

the baby 1911

there is also this..thing..

[cedar karma]

ah yes the what if we take that war era tokarev derived SMG made by partisans and turned it into a polish uzi

the rak is just beeg pistol and automatic

with a stock

[modest adder]

Found this spanish smg but it does looks like a long tec9

[cedar karma]

i mean

tech-9's we're all semi auto as manufactured

that aside

yeah

tube with magazine and perforations

is kinda the cheap SMG look

and has been since ww2

[quaint hound]

incredible though how the CETME Ameli LOOKS like a bad scifi prop

[cedar karma]

i mean

[modest adder]

This one looks pretty cool tbh

[cedar karma]

the ameli is LITERALLY just a mg42

rechambered

[modest adder]

Yeah

[cedar karma]

the original ameli's being captured 42's

[quaint hound]

stupid ass m16 carry handle

[modest adder]

Small and 556

[cedar karma]

newer production onesare nicer

and have the 5.56

butt he original ameli's

we're literally cludges

[modest adder]

It was on cod Ghost

Pretty cool gun

[quaint hound]

ALFA MG

[cedar karma]

i love frances adopted LMG post ww2 all the way till 2015 as standard

was a POS refitted tank MG from ww2

[quaint hound]

heres the CETME model L ig

tbh too similar to G3s lol

[cedar karma]

yknow....the model L's got a bit of a bad rap

due to production being a bit fucked

[modest adder]

I sprited this thing before

[cedar karma]

issues with model L production persisted all the way till it left service

with them being known for being less accurate than the prior models less reliable

and prone to the odd breakage

[quaint hound]

CETME C2 is prolly our best spanish one

also saw this

[cedar karma]

still remember this prototype abomination

[modest adder]

Sten 🥀

[cedar karma]

in 7.92x40

CETME engineers in 1949 being high as a kite and not speaking a lick of spanish

as per usual

[modest adder]

I got to focused on Main rifles and mgs that i forgot about the ATs

[quaint hound]

oh my GOD

EVIL.

the straight mag battle rifle AK

[cedar karma]

oh yeah the 308 AK battle rifle

[quaint hound]

certified yugo momenmt

[cedar karma]

they really do just make AK in everything

except 5.45

[quaint hound]

theres also this disgusting artillery cannon ofan MG by zastava

[cedar karma]

least it's not the inzuni 30mm GMG

[cedar karma]

also the fucken ukranians developed a full auto shoulder fired GL

20mm grenade machinegun

courtesy of african arms manufacturer inzuni

originally

denel land systems

but they fell apart

and CURRENTLY the design is owned and solely...not produced

by inzuni

and has...not seen any development since

[quaint hound]

two man AT lol

[cedar karma]

i mean...most non disposable AT platforms are INTENDED to be used as part of a two man team

loader/ammo bearer

weapon operator

some are just more OR less suited to single man operation

[quaint hound]

we need to include more two man stuff tbh

[modest adder]

True

Force players to cooperate

Fuck it

No AT gun will be usable by a single man

Give a stupid long reload time unless someone else is putting that shell in

[quaint hound]

does RMC have sniper/spotter yet

[modest adder]

Idk

Swear i saw some spotter stuff ingame

Could we include the second man reload mechanic on emplaced MGs?

[quaint hound]

ermm @golden hedge

[golden hedge]

Yes.

Mechanically complete.

[quaint hound]

@modest adder you must cook with the AT

what if we made AT that both needs loader and that loader needs to spot

[cedar karma]

considering the member states for inspiration

[quaint hound]

nah jk just sniper/spotter + SADAR/Loadeer

[cedar karma]

your stuck with either...a carl gustav derived design

or something german

russian AT since ww2 onward outside of tripod mounts

has all been on the lighter side of things

and most european nations stick with one or the other

choose prog man

[quaint hound]

tbh carl gustav

this is the one place we'd be allowed to flex that heritage

[quaint hound]

we have already G11, G3, FG42 as the main rifles

theres enough german influence already

[cedar karma]

tbh could make the DMR a swiss design

since yes

moneybags sweden

is somehow a prog state

[quaint hound]

veto because i think its so godddamn ugly WTF

[cedar karma]

that's....kindof the point?

it's uggly and cool

[quaint hound]

that might be the nastiest gun to stock connections ive seen JESUS

[cedar karma]

and was replaced by the generic as balls SG552

[quaint hound]

real firearm

[cedar karma]

they exited ww2 got these

[quaint hound]

that actually looks reasonable

[cedar karma]

and ended up only replacing that when they got the SG series

[cedar karma]

yeah but it's a soulless modernized furniture package

instead of my k31 bolt handle grenade launching spigot mule

image of a modernized STGW57

with a bayonetoptic

and the rifle grendes

the shot mag shown is meant for rifle grenade blanks

and yes that short little polymer bit

is the extent of the intended space for your hands

also the swiss LMG going into ww2 and for some time after the AM55

replaced by the SG552 in the 80s alongside the FN minimu replacing the AM55

and fun fact

it took till fucking 2012

for the swiss military to fully ditch the 20 round magazines for 30s

and the 20s are still used in training

[quaint hound]

hahahaha

20 round mags comrade we are COOKED!!!

lowkirkuinely we should make territorial guard suffer with them

[modest adder]

💯

Not a single mag that gets over 40

[cedar karma]

make some SG552 derived design or something STGW57 adjacent with 20 round mags

oh and for AT purposes?

territorial guard should get AT rifle grenades

especially innefectual ones

[quaint hound]

bullets hit harder but not AP like TWE

lower mag size

still good firing speed tho unlike TWE

[modest adder]

i like the idea of the territorial guard being slow as fuck but hitting hard

[cedar karma]

yeah and reasonably accurate

not as accurate as TWE

but

it retains an innacurate full auto setting

flick to semi for precision

[quaint hound]

(basically for xeno ofc)

[cedar karma]

or blow your mag every which way

[modest adder]

Geared for long range combat and trench warfare

[cedar karma]

and not hit shit

for 20 rounds

[quaint hound]

gigarecoil

[cedar karma]

M14 full auto style

[quaint hound]

me and my beautiful 7.62 warriors

with no recoil control

[cedar karma]

the dichotomy is gonna be so funny

with the flick of this switch i cease being combat effective past 3 tiles

however

[quaint hound]

LACN if it was goated basically ngl

[cedar karma]

https://youtu.be/ch5H6sYnenc

[quaint hound]

good close range, reasonable long range however no suppression

[cedar karma]

https://youtu.be/VAABMvmaGWQ?t=106

[full rivet]

on the topic of reowrking things that dont need rework

[quaint hound]

nah it does

you havent seen the fucking amount of Z larp

[modest adder]

The current territorial guard its just naval forces but poor

Lets try to give them some unique looks at least

[whole barn]

https://tenor.com/view/airborne-ww2-band-of-brothers-carentan-purple-heart-lane-gif-21748643

[brazen olive]

💦💦💦

I will steal this polish SMG to grom

[wicked ore]

I can't wait

[cloud olive]

holy shit, UPP that actually looks scary

[wicked ore]

Any ETA on this Pato, or are we still pretty far out?

[whole barn]

My genuine reaction

[cedar karma]

you see if the UPP had a SSH-68 adjacent helmet or honestly ANY helmet design that looked less like the goddamned sfera

the sfera is just not an intimidating helmet design

[whole barn]

They had an SSH, I just don’t think they ported it here

[wicked ore]

Dude the UPPs helmet right now is so fucking ugly

[cedar karma]

yeah

[wicked ore]

It looks like a janky helicopter pilot helm

[cedar karma]

it's based on the sfera

aka

the "diaper helmet"

[wicked ore]

The diaper

[whole barn]

It’s a titanium bucket that’s why

[wicked ore]

Not even aramid?

It's just solid titanium

[cedar karma]

yeah

literally just titanium with a heap of padding

[whole barn]

Yea UPP has other helmets, I think they just only ported the sphera

[wicked ore]

I feel like the SSh fits them way better

The 6B26 is basically just Russian PASGT

[cedar karma]

and the 6b47 is JUST a ruski mich

[golden hedge]

It is very difficult to get a curved helmet like that to look good. All of the helmets are kinda boxy for a reason.

[cedar karma]

behold gregori our totally original helmet design

[whole barn]

Was there only the sphera in the UPP overhaul or was there more helmets?

[cedar karma]

for ratnik future soldier

[golden hedge]

I’m not sure imo.

[modest adder]

probably a few weeks, still gotta do a lot of inhands for the guns and their magazines + the YAMLing

[wicked ore]

Works for me, take your time

[icy dagger]

They’re going to be a platoon adjacent to the UPP right?

If so, could be cool to have a terry guard revolt with UPP sent in to put it down

[golden hedge]

It’s possible, they’d need a bit more content to hit the mark though.

[wicked ore]

Terry Guard spawning as a small force on a UPP map would be interesting

Same with UACG really

[full rivet]

Guns look nice but I think the uniforms are a little strange

I think it's the shoulders, you don't see a lot of CM clothing with the rounded out shoulder area like that

[inner shore]

ooooooh this is what it was for

i saw you post these sprites in #spriting and thought you were trying to resprite the whole UPP

[remote kiln]

Wait you actually gave them the Polished peaked caps? His spriting, is it fire?

[whole barn]

so looked at the CM github, they still have the old weird UPP helmet sprites