battlefield-2042

[tepid agate]

You are correct lol

[hearty flame]

1 released when the game was doing ok and one released when the game was being put into the coffin

[cedar turtle]

the bar is just so high these days, it's easy to make a dud.

[ionic gust]

yeah but at least with those skins, you'd only have to deal with folks running that specific specialist or using the tank

[velvet sand]

Kinda yeah, but it doesn't help that they overhyped the game to high hell so there was a long way to crash down to reality : /

[tepid agate]

I think we had high expectations because all of us Battlefield fans, we were waiting for that modern military game again since we had bf1 and bfv for the years

[cedar turtle]

agreed

[ionic gust]

definetly

[hearty flame]

I dunno why people are trusting the marketing. i think the only recent game that has met marketing hype is elden ring. everything else has been a dud

[tepid agate]

Do you want Battlefield to feel like Battlefield?

I'd rather see anyone use a red a gold gun

Rather than anyone using borris who dress like Santa clause or anyone using a Christmas tank

[velvet sand]

I didn't just trust the trailers. I trusted them when they walked out on camera and talked about how absolutely mind blowing the game was going to be.

[edgy oriole]

doesnt count all dark souls are W's

[hearty flame]

riiight trust the devs and spokespeople who are invested in the games success lol

[hearty flame]

they are but i mentioned recent

[velvet sand]

I mean the long and short of that is, "We literally can't trust DICE." which is uh...an incredibly shitty place to be in where you can't trust the people making the game/franchise you enjoy to be honest with you.

I get it, they want to sell a game at the end of the day and they're gonna stretch the truth and boast. But there's a difference.

[hearty flame]

its more "dont take what they say at face value. they want to sell you the game so they can make money" because the dice that made 2042 isnt the dice that made the bad comapnies and 3 and 4

[ionic gust]

ok, you've got a good point but still

[tepid agate]

You know there are lots of other games that do this kind of thing. I just prefer if they can continue doing it with those games. Please don't try and take the battlefield community and have ideas to bring that kinda stuff in here

[ionic gust]

ok, sorry

[tepid agate]

No need to apologise just a discussion we are having. We all have different interests in games, we both have different views and opinions it doesn't mean one of us is right and one of us is wrong

[ionic gust]

👍

[broken sparrow]

This game dead yet?

[hexed mango]

no

in fact the opposite since 4.0

[broken sparrow]

hm hard to believe

[nova barn]

dont see why

elaborate?

[hexed mango]

hasnt gone below 1.5k players since update, and that's during the weekdays where most people are not playing

• in the last week there was a peak of almost 5k players on at one time, which is a 500% improvement from the weeks before the update

this is the charts, highlighted is when the update was released

[nova barn]

great update

for what its worth atleast

[hexed mango]

• this is only steam numbers.
  this is not accounting for Origin players, EA Desktop players, Xbox, PS, Epic Games

[broken sparrow]

beta was garbage and changing ur attachments in game was garbage

Interesting im surprised

[hexed mango]

and. this is not the beta.

if you havent played since the beta, you are in no place to judge

[broken sparrow]

haha

I was hoping for a bf4 type play style rip

[hexed mango]

this was never going to be a bf4 remake.

[broken sparrow]

I know, didn’t say that it was

[hexed mango]

so my point is you're hoping for something you were never going to get in the first place, so why not just go play bf4

[broken sparrow]

Cuz bf4 dead

[hexed mango]

guess what?
that sounds like a you problem

[broken sparrow]

Could’ve got something similar

[hexed mango]

you can play bf3 in 2042

[broken sparrow]

ur a dick. Go play more games u no life. Games r a fat waste of life anyways Lol

[hexed mango]

damn bro im sorry that you cant handle facts.

"Could've got something similar [to bf4]"

"I was hoping for bf4 type play style"

->

"Games [are] a fat waste of life"

seems like you have a paradox going on

[broken sparrow]

Whatever makes u feel better

[hexed mango]

i already feel fine, i just hope you figure out how as well

[tepid agate]

You should give it a go. Still far from expectations but definitely improved with the last update.

[broken sparrow]

for sure 👌

[tepid agate]

Season 1 is more likely to spark the community and try pull more players back. For the 4.0 update, it definitely took steps in the right direction and increase player numbers a little. You'll still have AI bots to help fill servers but you should be able to get into matches a bit faster than before.

[cyan trout]

Still finding full lobbies on Xbox

[nova barn]

pc fps games die super fast compared to console

[upbeat sand]

ounce a games trend ends its just moved away and forgotten with a smaller community left every time

[tepid agate]

As Ecology said, player numbers increased before 4.0

Steam charts don't tell you the WHOLE online community, but they give you a general understanding of how much people are playing the game.

On that site alone, 2042 went from 1k to 3k

bfV went from 30k to 16k

[nova barn]

with pc getting basucally every major game its hard to stay relevant

*new releases

[upbeat sand]

only the main ones stay on top, and also new games are more profitable and more people jump onto a trend. thats why companys make sequels instead of updating their current game

[tepid agate]

BF4 shows about 1.9k players from steam

[nova barn]

yeah its hard to get to the top and stay there, steam is one good example

[cyan trout]

And it wasn't originally released on steam

[nova barn]

1.9k on bf4 is more than most cods on pc

[hexed mango]

where do you see 1.9 lmao

(granted that its only been on steam for a while so it could be just that not many people own it on steam)

[tepid agate]

There is the 1.9k

24 hour peak

[nova barn]

no ppl own it alright

look at the graphs

[hexed mango]

yeah 1.9k 24 hours i just thought you mean 1.9k now thats all

[tepid agate]

If you want to talk about right now....

BF4 - 900
2042 - 2.k
BFV - 7.6k

👍

[hexed mango]

and guess what....

people bashed bfv in its launch, and now its hailed as great

...

[nova barn]

na bfv is pretty bad

still having perf issues on it

[tepid agate]

It deservedly should have got bashed. People are not playing that old launch format though, they are playing the redesign version

[upbeat sand]

specs?

[nova barn]

rtx 3080, i9 10900kf 32gb f ram

[upbeat sand]

dam

[nova barn]

ddr4

thats why I find it problematic

[upbeat sand]

whats your fps?

[nova barn]

below 100 max graphics

[tepid agate]

The day 2042 can get half the numbers BFV are pulling on Steam, will give you a general understanding that bf 2042 is on track to being what it should have been

[upbeat sand]

so around 90?

[nova barn]

solid yeah

[upbeat sand]

that seems good

[nova barn]

not really, I play 240hz so under 144 fps looks off and stuttery.

[upbeat sand]

oh

i guess you could put it on high or med

[near hare]

how you below 100 fps, are you not running dlss? im on 4k highest settings with dlss on quality with 100-110 fps

with 10900k , 3080(10 gb model) , 64gb ram

[quiet shell]

Ayo DICE wheres that fucking feedback channel for specialists cause I have A LOT OF FUCKING SHIT TO SAY

[near hare]

they will never add a feedback channel lol, 100% would be ignored and only shit talk in it

[tepid agate]

The turn around that bfv did, was an example that they can they can tweak things to improve player numbers substantially and receive more praise than negatively.

They've done it before so they can do it again right? Yes, they can. However, 2042 has a bigger challenge because of the specialists.

Many people have taken issue with the class system removed. Every other battlefield I played had it. It took its core formula/identify away and became this huge free for all with 2042.

This is probably why after making much need fixed with its launch condition, the next loop discussion is focused on specialist. Let's see what they are going to do.

[hard plume]

Classes sucked

[hybrid field]

do people still play 2042

[hard plume]

No, and if they say they do, they’re lying, and if you see players on steam chart,thats steam lying aswell

Secretly no one one plays any game, all games are dead

[cyan trout]

Their 'feedback' session on specialists is going nowhere. They already said they aren't removing them.

[hard plume]

Wake up sheeples

[nova barn]

Idk bruh

[near hare]

what res are you on?

[nova barn]

2560x1440

[near hare]

turn dlss on > quality under settings

[nova barn]

I think I had it last I plaid

dont notice any difference in fps

[near hare]

hmm weird, make sure settings are maxed as well so you are utilizing more of your gpu

[nova barn]

Lowers fps

[near hare]

weird

[nova barn]

Have you tried Ray tracing its horrible lol

I had like 30fps

[near hare]

oh fuck rt lol, its not even worth it

[hexed mango]

I mean thats true until you realize that the same things people were complaining about with bfv are still in bfv to this day
which is the controversial stuff about its content (not like oh there's a DLC but like the pushing of certain ideas in a historical context)
which is an argument that I don't support

and my point is still that people hated on it
-> people were mad about it stopping

and people hate 2042

there's a correlation because this also isn't the first its happened in DICE, and 100% not the first time it happened in games in general
(i.e. BF4, FO76, NMS, CB77, etc.)

Plus, I 100% disagree with the argument that the specialists are the reason why this game is being hated. quite the opposite if I were to say anything about it, to be honest.

Specialists are a concept that the game is playing with, and it is an idea that is original and creative (not within the scope of hero shooters, but in the scope of the battlefield)
They will not remove specialists, it is the core of this game, and while yes you could say "Oh but classes are the core of battlefield", true, that doesn't stop this game from being different or creative in its own context.

Sorry for the paragraph, but given a paragraph, I respond in a paragraph

[hexed mango]

i mean im assuming you're trolling but i mean 👀

[hexed mango]

exactly

i think the intention is what about specialists (i.e. their abilities) should we alter for a better experience

on that topic, i think most would say "nerf Boris turret" or smth like that

[tepid agate]

Yes, I agree. Specialists are going to stay in this game. It is a new idea A New concept they're trying to do.

I never said specialist to the only problem with the game, they've been a lot of issues and the latest patched has fixed a lot of them.

I don't think people just want to hate on the game because it's Battlefield they had a high expectation for the prices which they paid.

Everyone has different feelings for the way things should work in the game. My feeling is that, if they somehow bring in a kind of class system for these specialists, which will bring back its core formula, then the player numbers for this game are going to increase much faster.

[hexed mango]

true, it may bring players, but with the limited amount of guns, and the already in place specialists system, i dunno if that is an appropriate response.

Specialists are the limitation, by their abilities they change the field with what they can do, by opening up guns and gadgets is (in my mind) a positive for the ability to play the game with an open playstyle.

I personally would be against a restriction of weapons and gadgets not just due to lower numbers, but because then if you limit it based on specialist, some specialists cant use guns that may be more useful for them

Like rao, he is recon, but i play assault with him i use an smg/ar and thats my fun

if they limit him to snipers, its less fun for me

thats just my main concern, the limitation of the actual division between classes that will come with that class-system styled restrictions.

and personally, while i hope people do come back to the game, i think there are other ways to engage with people playing

I think S1 will be a bonus for that, and i think updates like 4.0 are even more useful.

[hazy sun]

I think it will be swell if they just categorize the specialists and gadgets to classes. it will solve a few issues with AA spam for example. Id be ok with weapons being a free choice with a clamp on gadgets

[hexed mango]

yeah i think maybe gadgets i would be ok with, even though i like changing up my gadgets all the time

generally, im kinda against a class system
but idk we'll see.

[versed python]

Specialists are the evolution of classes. It is unlikely to go away.

I am okay with that. People are averse to change, but change is necessary to build new.

Inherently, people still play their classes regardless of specialists being a thing.

Those same people become agitated because others choose to embrace the change and not play like them.

[hexed mango]

precisely, and by giving it to the person to decide, they make their own playstyle, habits, etc
so yeah, i continue to want to keep specialists. im interested in seeing where it takes us

[versed python]

Specialists allow inclusion for all styles of play, not limit or provide exclusion to a style of play.

[versed python]

Exactly.

[hazy sun]

im not against them keeping specialists at all, Mckay is probably the most fun ive had in bf in a while. but it would be cool to have a bit more nuance in the choices we have to make

[versed python]

I don't disagree.

[white geyser]

Wasn't happy with the specialist, you know I could give one of the specialist's weapons to the engineer class since engineer is my main class

[versed python]

Realistically, on an actual battlefield (or otherwise non-permissive environment), while I have a main set of kit I might run, there are opportunities to switch things up to match the mission need. I believe that's the flexibility that specialists allow.

[tepid agate]

Yes they need to bring back some kind of classes formula whether that be to specialists or the gadgets to feel more like battlefield

Removing that core formula for the characters and the gadgets created a whole new concept for their game.

They said they have learned "valuable" lessons from the criticism since launch. They showed they have learned some with the 4.0 update being a good one.

Their next focus is specialists for good reason. Let's see what they do.

[flat tusk]

Nerfs and buffs that’s it

[hexed mango]

Mackay is pretty fun lel

and plus, the idea of specialists themselves allows them to go in so many directions

they can get creative with it, thats my hope atleast :)

[versed python]

The framework for the game's base architecture is built around specialists. It's not going away. What I would like to see more of is lore, however. Lacking a campaign as it stands, there needs to be a deeper story to each that ties together and endears them to the audience.

[hexed mango]

again im pretty sure that as @flat tusk said the specialists core feedback will be about nerfs and buffs to the specialists, and changes like Rao and Paik's in 4.0

nothing like "lets remove it" or "lets scrap x specialist" but more of just how can we balance it, and make it more fun

[tepid agate]

Yes, specialists will stay in the game for sure. There has to be some kind or class system with the characters or the gadgets. This huge free for all and new experience has not gone as well as they planned.

[lyric locust]

aint whole story that specialists are mercs who join military powers to make some money, because planet is f-ed up?

[hexed mango]

my hope is that with each season we get an Exodus Clip like thing, which is minimal sure, but what i hope ontop of that is that we get story-based missions for coop.

we can play as irish maybe, or as rao (as they're the ones we see in Exodus Film) and we can go on missions for the No-Pats, maybe against Oz, trying to find Pak, idk, a bunch of stuff that could be used and i hope they do

i personally am indifferent to an entire campaign, i mean cool but like idc that much

however, it would be really cool to see what i mentioned here, the coop-based missions for the story, that maybe we get rewards (skins n shiz, or maybe unlocking new specialists idfk)

time will tell

[hexed mango]

yeah the No-Pats are people (mercs) who allied themselves with RU or US because they are the only people left standing. They ended up not having a choice basically and ended up just helping one side or another

(ik multiplayer is weird cause the same people fight the same people, but this is the story idea)

[versed python]

I'd like to see a short film for the current specialists origins, and then them release it per specialists for the coming seasons, like these are the base specialists and each season they add two more. It's sort of how Rainbow Six Siege rolled out new ones.

[hexed mango]

https://www.ea.com/games/battlefield/battlefield-2042/the-world-of-battlefield-2042
this is a good place to go for lore

[lyric locust]

it's gameplay, they cant have 128 different characters

[hexed mango]

no obviously not, and im fine with that

[hexed mango]

THE BRINK OF WAR
A food and fuel shortage ignites a shadow war between the US and Russia. To maintain plausible deniability, both sides field No-Pat Task Forces as proxies in escalating conflicts over resources – promising the refugees a piece of what's left.

Open war is imminent. No-Pats have no choice but to choose sides, fighting not for a flag, but for their future.

[versed python]

Gotta sleep, great discussion. Thanks for that, it's nice to get into different takes without people shitting on eachother.

[hexed mango]

same i should grab some zz's

[lyric locust]

kinda funny, how bots are US and RU ground forces

would love some European cities in season passes, like Rotterdam rework from BFV

and no god forsaken Metro

[sinful ore]

does anyone having problem that suddenly mouse and keyboard inputs stop for 5~10 seconds?

[hexed mango]

that would indeed be cool

[lyric locust]

Shanghai rework, or some Chinese/Japanese city, some action in US, some island warfare (forgot name of BF4 map), Narvik would be bananas on new tech

high verticality maps would be cool as well

[tepid agate]

Any older maps from the older battlefields you think could be added to portal? All the current portal maps are a new experience for me and I like them better than the 2042 ones.

[lyric locust]

imho, most of BF3 maps are iconic at this point, BF4 maps are a bit eh, BF1 and V maps would be nice, also Dice should add 128 man Wake island

is it Battlefield game without Wake island?

[tepid agate]

Imagine Fjell just wing suit off and around the mountains 😄

[lyric locust]

Mckays spidermaning around

[tepid agate]

I've seen one jungle map I like but not sure if it's wake Island

[lyric locust]

Solomon islands, most likely

Iwo Jima-like map would be cool as well

[tepid agate]

Oh Iwo was so good

[lyric locust]

establishing beach head and then moving inland

[tepid agate]

Can't do that with the wingsuit though lol

[lyric locust]

first check point was best gameplay experience in any battlefield game imho, pure chaos everywhere

[tepid agate]

That update with the US and Japanese really elevated bfV

[quiet shell]

MacKays grapple is honestly fine. The fact that it can really only give him an Elavation advantage and some faster ground traversal pales in comparison to Sundances wingsuit. Which is game breaking

[lyric locust]

i have to admit, after it launched, i no longer played anything, but those maps

[lyric locust]

oh, we aint saying it is broken, it has strong points and weak points. But i still prefer Sundance to him, even if sundance is more limited, it is better for going behind enemy lines

[lyric atlas]

wingsuits are fun

[lyric locust]

also, its fun duck hunt simulator - killing other sundances with sniper rifle 😄

[quiet shell]

MacKay, Dozier, Faulk, Irish and Webster are the only ones I can play. Mainly because their 1 liners and in game sayings arent grating on the skull

[tepid agate]

I faded off it too because it's launch was really underwhelming. So much "coming soon" in the menus. Every missed 1/4 of its campaign!! Unfunded product. But yes that update really got things back on track

And at the start they only had a level 50 cap for player ranking

[lyric locust]

oh, i dont really care about levels 😄 after i unlocked every weapon, i played for fun

[tepid agate]

I always have interest for hitting the max level until they changed it to 500 I don't have that kinda time lol

[hexed mango]

parcel storm

[quiet shell]

I got too around level 230 before I got bored of BFV and had everything unlocked

[hexed mango]

which i can only assume took place on the Parcel Islands lol

[tepid agate]

Is love that too but need season 2 or 3 to see them finally add water vechiles

[hexed mango]

ok im actually going to sleep now

[hexed mango]

LCAA and MAV: 👀😎👽

[quiet shell]

Honestly I wouldnt be surprised if DICE does a soft relaunch of 2042, does a single season to get the game fixed and filled up on content before heading over to the next battlefield game. Because thats due for 2023

[lyric locust]

Or in UPS warehouse during a storm 😄

[tepid agate]

Just 100 is enough for me 😄

I miss riding those waves on the jet ski

Those weather changes were so cool

[lyric locust]

Next bf game already confirmed?

[tepid agate]

Now, the clouds might get darker with the tornado

[quiet shell]

Was confirmed a while ago for a 2023 release

[lyric locust]

But why? They could make paid DLCs like in the past to make actually good game

[quiet shell]

Because thats not how a live service works

[tepid agate]

Yeah I read something like that too

[quiet shell]

Not that 2042 has much of a live service anyways

[tepid agate]

And people began to wonder whether they will give up and 2042, then someone came out and said most of the team is still working on 2042

[lyric locust]

I hope we wont get more generic 4 class shit avymore, specialists are way too good to give up

[quiet shell]

Bro what the fuck are you smoking?

[tepid agate]

👀

[quiet shell]

I hope specialists are dead after 2042 and we go back to classes

There is no future for Battlefield if they go forward with specialists

[tepid agate]

There can be if they give specialists classes lol

[quiet shell]

We already know from data mining DICE already has a plan to put specialists in a class-like system to fix the mess they created

Which is a bandaid over a gaping hole

[tepid agate]

It's in the next loop hole discussion so let's hope the adjustments come

The direction they wanted with specialists, no class system has driven a lot away.

People do enjoy them though. Let's see what they do.

[lyric locust]

i can finally kill people and provide ammo, no longer need to choose between good weapon and supplies

[quiet shell]

90% of the battlefield community you mean?

[quiet shell]

You could do that in any battlefield game.

[lyric locust]

and gadgets adds extra depth to BF games, where certain gadgets are just plain better on some specialists, than others

[rain wolf]

Pretty sure that datamined info was out of context stuff like "class progression" and "combat medic"

[quiet shell]

BRO BATTLEFIELD HAS ALWAYS HAD CLASS SPECIFIC GADGETZ

[rain wolf]

It could very easily just be adding a progression system to the classes in portal

[tepid agate]

Yes. I am so confident that if they released 2 versions of this game, one as it is currently and another with the standardized soldiers on both teams with classes, the original classes would be played more.

Maybe they will tweak specialists with this format in some way.

[lyric locust]

yes, at it was crap

why do i have to run assault rifhle or smg with launcer? why not sniper?

[quiet shell]

No it wasnt! It kept the game balanced!

[lyric locust]

show me one balanced BF game...

[rain wolf]

Yes because having half your team be assault but nobody reviving or throwing medic bags is balanced

Totally

[quiet shell]

Bad Company 2
Battlefield 1
Battlefield 3
Battlefield 2
Even Battlefield Play4free know how this worked

[high rover]

Anyone else not able to get into games in Aus?

[tepid agate]

See the battlefield friends video?

Medic offers a med crate

No thanks I have my own

"See what I mean it makes the specialists less special"

This new idea and concept for specialists is a larger free for all

[quiet shell]

Whenever I play battlefield 3 and 4 people are constantly reviving

[rain wolf]

When weapons and gadgets are locked to certain classes people just pick the one with the weapon they want to use and the gadgets are an afterthought, or players are forced to use weapons they suck at just to provide meaningful aid to their team

[tepid agate]

Does battlefield mobile have classes too or did they also choose this new concept or specialists?

[hazy sun]

classes i think

[tepid agate]

👍

[hazy sun]

mobile is basically bf 2/3

[lyric locust]

Tracking dart + RPG, shotguns, shotguns with explosive rounds/FAMAS/AUG/Jet/Tank, Heli Play4free was most unbalanced game ever

[lyric atlas]

i think classes and specialists should be combined somehow

[rain wolf]

Also play4free was pretty p2w as most f2p shooters are, that's basically the definition of unbalanced

[lyric atlas]

like there are still the 4 base classes, but under the classes would be specializations. you know, like how specialization works

[quiet shell]

Not the case.
What you're thinking of is a certain class acts as the fine all rounder, the class that despite having its own role, can get away mostly with what needs to be done.
In battlefield 3 and 4 is was the medic that was supported from long range by snipers, resupplied by the support, and assisted by the sniper.
In bad company 2, battlefield 1, and 5, it was the assault who could fight infantry and armor who was ressuplied by the medic, supported by the engineer and assisted by the sniper.

[lyric locust]

so like it is now? There are still archetypes behind all specialists - recon still have recon abilities, taht reveal players, assault uses offesive, support - defensive abilities

[tepid agate]

Classes were a large part of this game which deffered from the other FPS game.

This new version which I've never seen, removed that, took ideas from all other top FPS games and bundled it into one

[rain wolf]

I'd be able to kinda tolerate class-based gadget restrictions, but not weapon restrictions

[lyric atlas]

yeah, but i think people want it to be more restricted. which is rather odd when you think about it

[lyric locust]

That is exactly the case, either you take good weapon of bad class, or good class with bad weapons

[rain wolf]

Just because it's different doesn't make it good

[quiet shell]

No, you work with the strength and weakness of each class by relying on your teammates In a teamwork based game

[tepid agate]

Exactly

[rain wolf]

Battlefield games haven't been about proper teamwork since like BF2 at the latest lol

[lyric locust]

non assault or recon players in BFV was waste of space in squad...

[tepid agate]

It's kinda like always playing FIFA, main job is to defend, attacker attack, midfielders help both

A new FIFA comes out and nobody has set positions anyone does anything 😄

[quiet shell]

Yes. I never said DICE doesn't have a problem with constantly reinventing the class system

[lyric locust]

playerbase has problem with adapting to new things, wanting more of old thing and whining, that game is stale

[quiet shell]

I personally think DICE found the perfect class balance with Battlefield 4

[tepid agate]

You can change things but don't replace its core

[lyric locust]

did you even play BF4? That game is nowhere NEAR balance

[quiet shell]

No one complained about the classes being stale. Absolutely no one, the complaints were always about how the classes were balanced

[lyric locust]

BF3 changed game at its core, what is your point>?

[quiet shell]

I have over 2000 hours in Battlefield 4.

[lyric locust]

and you think that game has balance? really?

[tepid agate]

My battlefield experience began at 4

What happens to 3?

[mossy portal]

He said class balance. You’re taking what he said out of context.

[quiet shell]

No. I never said Battlefield 4 was a balanced game and it still isnt. I'm just saying Battlefield 4 had the best idea for the classes

[lyric locust]

It got same flak as BF2042 is getting. Basically BF2 was slower more teamwork oriented game and BF3 was CoD-ified a lot

[lyric locust]

game isnt based only around classes, taking one part of the game and saying is balanced is like taking apple and saying all fruits are round

[tepid agate]

So yea it seems they changed things but never changed its core identify with classes. It changes around it's core.

2042 removed it

[mossy portal]

Okay but he’s talking exclusively about classes

[rain wolf]

I think bad company 2 was the start of most of the CoD-related complaints around battlefield

[mossy portal]

If he wanted to talk about weapon balance or something he would’ve said weapon balance

[quiet shell]

No it didnt. I was there for Battlefield 3's launch. The complaints never brought that Battlefield 3 was playing like call of duty. It actually played slower than Bad Company 2 due to the map sizes.

[lyric locust]

classes got changed as well, and players were pissed about that as well

[tepid agate]

I heard gadgets got shuffled around between classes but removing it all entirely is a whole new level. It's like a new game

[lyric locust]

2 had 5 classes, basically you had to choose med bag/ ammo bag/ launcher/ whatever scout had/ C4

[lyric atlas]

i feel like i did hear the complaint that bf3 and bc2 were cod-ified

at least bf3 brought back all the vehicles

[mossy portal]

Does something being fast paced equate to being CoD like?

[quiet shell]

Scout had spotting equipment and technically there were 6 if you counted the spec ops class in the DLC.

[tepid agate]

So they had 5 classes... Then had 4 classes for 10+ years... Then saw all the trends from other games so decided to have 0 in this one lol

[lyric locust]

yeah, but i dont remember spec ops gadget for the life of me, so i left it excluded

[quiet shell]

Spec ops didnt get a gadget. Instead he had extra health and access to all the weapons in the weapon pool

[quiet shell]

EA did tell DICE's creative team too "do whats popular"

[rain wolf]

Fast paced, mostly close quarters, with little or no vehicles. Which is exactly what maps like operation metro promoted. That's CoD-like

[lyric locust]

and Metro with Locker are most popular maps

[mossy portal]

Yea but there’s something different about BF CqC compared to CoD

[tepid agate]

Yup bring in that money lol

[mossy portal]

Ziba Tower was just awesome

[lyric locust]

game engine. Whole loop is almost exactly the same

[tepid agate]

I like that jungle map in portal. More infanty to really nice paced

[rain wolf]

Yeah, battlefield started to feel like it was pursuing the CoD audience around that time and the playerbase basically allowed it by making the most CoD-like maps into the most popular

[quiet shell]

Maps like Metro, Lockers, the trench map in Battlefield 1 were popular because they made up for Dice's waning map design that over the years continued to fail in separating the infantry from the vehicles

[mossy portal]

Panzerstorm…

[lyric locust]

And now we have proper open maps with something that is different from CoD, and players are pissed, cause it's not like BF 😄 aka not like CoD 😄

[quiet shell]

Theres a reason Bad Company 2 has the best maps in the series

[lyric locust]

one of the least popular maps in BFV

[tepid agate]

These maps have hardly any cover

[mossy portal]

I’m aware

[rain wolf]

Just like a lot of classic BF maps

I mean, have you played el alamein

[quiet shell]

Proper open maps that dont seperate the infantry from the vehicles, have no cover, have vantage points without a way to counter from all possible options and little deatruction

[lyric locust]

vehicles, tactical insertion beacons, squad mates - so many different spawn options to be set up close to action

[tepid agate]

I bloody hated that one!! Lol

[lyric locust]

like good old BF2 maps

[mossy portal]

The maps from the Pacific in BFV are a good example of infantry vs. vehicles balance

[tepid agate]

4 man squads is another issue when they double there player size

[lyric locust]

gotta agree, 6 man squads (at least) should be norm now

[quiet shell]

Only transport vehicles and vehicles your squadmates are in can be spawned into, you only get 3 other squadmates and not everyone wants to run the beacon

[rain wolf]

People complain about 2042 being less of a battlefield game meanwhile the most popular games in the franchise are a result of them moving away from typical battlefield design

[lyric locust]

yup, exactly

[quiet shell]

They really didnt. Speeding up the gameplay didnt remove Battlefield from its original vision. It just matched up to peoples attention spans

[tepid agate]

Battlefield designs are not the biggest issue with the "game" just a current topic of discussion for being "A" problem

[mossy portal]

Do you guys prefer the old system of Assaults being the medics or having them be a separate class like in V?

[quiet shell]

Go back to Battlefield 2, matches could last for upwards of an hour. Bad Company 2 actually had really short matches of only around 20-30 minutes, and Battlefield 3 and 4 shared game matches that could go up to 45 minutes

[lyric locust]

speed up gameplay, smaller maps, clear division between vehicle and infantry so you dont have to deal with them if you don't want

[lyric atlas]

i think they should take a large-map with military infrastructure (transport, resources) gameplay route

[tepid agate]

This is like COD removing kill streaks in their next game.... And people are confused why it would get hate by its own community 😂

[lyric locust]

you are thinking about Squad or Arma, games that CoD kids don't like, BF needs to be liked by CoD kids

[quiet shell]

I think assaults being the Medic was the best play. It allowed your typical player to break through the meatgrind, slowed down the matches since tickets couldnt drain so quickly and made momentum and breaches in enemy lines really important

[lyric atlas]

yes, indeed i am thinking of arma. KOTH in particular because that's what i mainly play on arma

[mossy portal]

I miss traditional defibs

[lyric atlas]

they could have multiple modes, but the main mode could be a large-scale war with a need for infrastructure and stuff. keep the more casual gameplay, but make people have to work together. allow cross-squad comms, make a commander matter. stuff like that

[quiet shell]

That just sounds like Squad but less hardcore

[lyric locust]

basically, build on current maps to make them better

[quiet shell]

And DICE tried that with the attrition system in Battlefield V and people hated it

[lyric atlas]

did they...?

[mossy portal]

I got so used to attrition that it was weird playing without it

[lyric atlas]

it adds a depth to the game

[quiet shell]

Yes. At launch you had maybe 2 spare reloads for your gun unless you got an ammo bag from a support player or an engineer built the ammo nodes

I remember at launch actual melee fights breaking out because people kept running out of ammo

[mossy portal]

It wasn’t until later that they added the ability to grab ammo or medpacks from a support or medic respectively so it wasn’t always the greatest

[quiet shell]

Thankfully DICE wisened up, gave people more ammo and made it so everyone could build

[lyric atlas]

well, they could expand onto it. make it so that, if your team manages to get a (insert vehicle here) into a point, people could hold up to like 5 reloads

having to build around a vehicle and hide it, protect it from explosions, it all seems entertaining to me

[mossy portal]

I think that would be catering to the wrong crowd. I wouldn’t want to worry about logistics in a battlefield game

[quiet shell]

I mean. I dont think attrition is making a return anyways. DICE has a habit of introducing a game mechanic to a battlefield game, and then never bringing it back

[tepid agate]

It's a shame they ended the live service soon after it was thriving

[opal vessel]

i wish bf 2042 was a good game. it had a lot of potential

[lyric atlas]

kids these days smh!!

[mossy portal]

I definitely fw that stuff but only if I’m playing squad or foxhole

[quiet shell]

Actually beyond Battlefield 3, 4, and Hardline, DICE feels like they need to constantly reinvent the wheel

[opal vessel]

i think that if they were to speed up the updates and give us season one it would be a good game ngl

[mossy portal]

There wasn’t much change from 3 to 4 though

[lyric locust]

ah yes, Hardline, most hated BF 😄

is it now regarded as "good" BF game? 😄

[quiet shell]

Until now

[tepid agate]

I think they experiment the trends to see how much of another fanbase they can capture without losing their own

[mossy portal]

It was always a good video game that was never meant to be taken seriously

[quiet shell]

Hardly, hardline still sucks

[opal vessel]

yeah lol

[mossy portal]

Hindsight is a funny thing

[rain wolf]

And they would probably be able to focus on updating the game with more content if people would stop telling them to redesign the entire game into becoming BF4 2.0

[quiet shell]

Yes thats what I mean.

[lyric locust]

4 is basically DLC for 3 sold at full price

[opal vessel]

yeah i agree

[mossy portal]

They also introduced Commander mode just to remove it…

[quiet shell]

Not really. Battlefield 4 had plenty to make it different and unique from battlefield 3

[tepid agate]

Remember they added Firestorm. It had so much potential but the left it as "coming soon". It came so far after the the hype that it died off so fast

[lyric locust]

like more weapons, more vehicles and new maps? While running on same engine

[opal vessel]

will you guys buy the next battlefield game?

[mossy portal]

If there is a next battlefield game

[opal vessel]

there will be

[rain wolf]

If the beta is fun and it runs well, yeah

[tepid agate]

After this experience, I will wait for review. I won't preorder

[lyric locust]

depends, if it brings something good and isnt remake of BF3 or 4 - yes, if its more cod like crap - no

[opal vessel]

same here

i feel like a clown when i wear the mckay skin tbh

[mossy portal]

In an ideal world, I’d take Battlefield 1 with BFV mechanics and gunplay

[quiet shell]

Depends on what DICE does with 2042. If they manage to bring the game back and make it something respectable and good? Maybe. If they get 2042 into a "good enough" state and leave it in a sorry state to be abandoned for the next game? Fuck no

[opal vessel]

i think dice will do their best.

hopefully

[quiet shell]

Their best isnt good enough.

[tepid agate]

I should have learned my lesson with bfV. Paying full price for a game with so much "coming soon" stuff in-game.

I bought into all the bf2042 hype with the long awaited experience of playing a new, modern version on this military franchise.

After this experience, I can wait next time.

[opal vessel]

true, but you need to keep that there is new devs in mind

but i think they could do better

[lyric locust]

honestly, i bought it just because its finally modern setting and not by Activision

[lyric atlas]

they should just copy bf4 and make it more modern

[lyric locust]

how about no? It won't sell, cause its "too much like BF4"

[lyric atlas]

yall dont want anything good

[quiet shell]

New devs to the studio. But I'm betting you everyone working at DICE already has multiple years of game development experience. Though I dont blame them for anything. I blame the leadership

[opal vessel]

no

[rain wolf]

If you wanna play BF4 then just go back and play it, nobody’s stopping you

[lyric atlas]

ummm

[opal vessel]

yeah

[tepid agate]

We had many years of the old wars with B1 and BFV. Not that I didn't like them, but I wanted the next one to he modern because that's what, over 4-5 years?

[uncut bay]

If it’s good, yeah

[whole badge]

[lyric atlas]

BF4 is a good game, it has a lot going for it. to say that i should just 'go back to play it' is to ignore the objective superiority of it. if they make it, improve it, it would doubtlessly be the best game. it was already, itself, a clone of bf3 yet improved.

improve it more, i say

[opal vessel]

imma head out now, i need to do some school shit 🙄

[lyric locust]

Old wars suck, high tech military toys are so much fun than TNT sticks and some flares

[uncut bay]

It’s hilarious when people say “just play the old games” as if that excuses anything

[lyric atlas]

they really caught lightning in a bottle with BF4, so why shouldnt they look to it?

they dont need to rebuild the wheel every time

[tepid agate]

I like old war. They can capture events that really happened and we always have a soft spot for real past events.

Just, the long wait for that modern military one again, I had high anticipations

[lyric locust]

It's not excuse, but re-releasing old game as new for full price... Seariously? old game is still running, why would I pay for BF4 in 2022, when i have it bought years ago, and can play it for free

[mossy portal]

Exactly

[lyric atlas]

is that what you said when bf4 released, given that it was a bf3 clone?

[mossy portal]

It’d literally just be BF4 with minor graphical improvements

[tepid agate]

Like the cod remastered just do it to popular battlefield games

[rain wolf]

Because if they make it too similar people complain it's not different enough to justify $60 price tag, it happened with bf4

[lyric atlas]

if they were smart, they'd look to all their creations, take the best parts of each, and improve them however they can. that would mean bf4 would be the basis

[lyric locust]

yes, and i stand by it. Its a bit shinier BF3. And i bought it on sale, cause it felt wrong paying full price

[lyric atlas]

and yet, it was the most popular and well-received battlefield. so perhaps...you are wrong?

[tepid agate]

They look at the trends from other games and what's attracting that audience, then try to change their formula to bring them in

[uncut bay]

Remasters and their popularity should be anough of an answer to this question. Regardless, I don’t advocate for a remaster or a remake, just for notes to be taken from past games’ successes

[lyric atlas]

that's how we've come to this. to having BFH, to having bf5 having trouble, to having bf2042 having even deeper trouble

[quiet shell]

Going off of Glass ceiling reviews from former devs at DICE during 2042's development and shortly after until EA did a studio clean out and brought in Vince Zampella, heres what I came to the conclusion of

DICE's leadership had primarily experience in mobile games working with 3 other developers max.

None of them had ever played a Battlefield game.

Many of them failed to communicate with each other at multiple points over petty reasons

They are all yes-men to whoever was above them and rarely if ever shared team concerns to higher ups

Many of them were related which fuels the possibility the leadership was hired on nepotism

Despite 2042 having a vision from the creative team, other leadership were constantly challenging that vision and having the devs do what they wanted and not what the creative team wanting

And lastly

Generally incompetent

[lyric locust]

BFV sold better than 4....

[lyric atlas]

any attempt to adjust the sales figures for the increasing size of the gaming community?

[tepid agate]

Let's see what they mean by having learnt "valuable" lessons, so they said.

4.0 patch was a step in the right direction. Their next focus is specialists.

[lyric locust]

spiler alert: It doesn't matter 😉

[mossy portal]

If you wanna talk about sales BF1 blows both of them out of the water

[uncut bay]

Yeah this is also something to keep in mind. A lot of people try to pin the blame on EA, but according to past devs the issue is with dice itself from top to bottom

[lyric atlas]

anyway, it doesnt even really disprove my point

[lyric locust]

and BF4 AND BFV was released on same systems

[lyric locust]

it kinda does. BF4 released on more sytems than BFV and it was outsold by BFV 😄

[tepid agate]

Maybe bfV sold more because how amazing the battlefield in-between was... BF1

[quiet shell]

The DICE leadership shake up is probably also a reason why the games fixing and updates are so slow, zampela probably has to bring in new leadership at multiple levels in the studio

[lyric atlas]

im not seeing bf4 underselling bf5, im seeing bf5 having half the sales

[lyric locust]

and its doesn't amtter 😄

[mossy portal]

I don’t think there’s a right answer. I don’t think BF4 is the best game, it really is just personal opinion. So to tell him that he is wrong is not really that great

[lyric locust]

BF4 sold 7 mil coppies, BFV - 7.3 mil

[lyric atlas]

...

[mossy portal]

He is correct

[tepid agate]

How many did bf1 sell?

[mossy portal]

25m

[lyric locust]

BF1 sold like hot cakes

[uncut bay]

Source for these numbers?

[tepid agate]

Thanks

There we go. Bf1 blew the numbers out the water

What ever was going to release next was bound to sell more than the games before bf1

[rain wolf]

BF1 was lucky because CoD was failing hard at that time due to yet another futuristic game while BF1 delivered what FPS players everywhere were interested in

[mossy portal]

I don’t know if that’s perfectly accurate but I know it sold more than 15 million definitely

So it outsold 4 and 5…. Combined/

[tepid agate]

I think we were all waiting for that old war game... Battlefield went there while cod went in the opposite direction

[lyric atlas]

I mean, my point was that they should look at their best games and take the best parts from them. BF4 would likely be a huge influence on such a strategy. this isnt deniable just because bf5 sold .3 million more units

[quiet shell]

Battlefield 1 in many regards is considered among the best battlefield games in the series. Personally I disagree for my own reasons but its clear Battlefield 1 was made at DICE's peak as a studio

[lyric locust]

Wikipedia, both stats taken from year 2018. BFV went to sell double to triple that before BF 2042 launch, but there is no data on how many BF4 were sold by the time 2042 released, so I didnt take sales date from different time points

[uncut bay]

thanks

[lyric locust]

BFV sold more, sell data is from end of 2018 for BFV

[ancient lichen]

I got a lot of fighter jets flying over me at the moment irl

[lyric atlas]

so what? they should still look back at their old games and see what people enjoyed the most.

[tepid agate]

I'm sure bf2042 sold a shit ton as well but many have left

[lyric atlas]

what people remember, what people want. the sales are secondary to those desires

[lyric locust]

They enjoyed most CoD like experience BF offered - Metro, Locker, etc. maps with no vehicles

[mossy portal]

EA hasn’t released exact figures for 2042 but it sold 4mil in one week so do what you will with that information. Sales are irrelevant

[lyric atlas]

then give those people a mode in your game. but that isnt where you stop.

[mossy portal]

2042 technically had the 2nd best launch in the series

[tepid agate]

Yeah people like me bought into the hype and anticipation lol

Truly underwhelming

[lyric atlas]

they would be smart to survey thousands or even millions of battlefield gamers. get an idea of what they liked. and the common things they say are what you act on

[mossy portal]

Every time I play I’m in this in-between purgatory of “this game is terrible” and “I am mildly enjoying this”

[tepid agate]

I play once a week for the daily missions lol it doesn't have they same effect of pulling me like the older games

[lyric locust]

How to kill your game 101

[mossy portal]

The community doesn’t always know best

[lyric atlas]

ah yes, kill your game by giving the fans what they want. genius game developer mind

[uncut bay]

honestly if they had meaningful progression i'd be more inclined to play it, right now it's just a few hours here and there to progress T1

[lyric atlas]

of course they dont know what's best, that's what the game developers are for. they're there to expand on the things people want and make them better, not just add them in without thinking

[mossy portal]

I was so livid when they nerfed smoke grenades

[tepid agate]

This is why they should have asked the community if they would like to see a change from removing classes

The poll would have been substantially once sided to keep them in sure

[lyric locust]

Community doesnt know what it wants 😄 you NEVER listen to community before you have something solid to offer

[eternal storm]

he's got a point, if we were to listen to half of the cod or BF community all we'd get is remakes and updated graphics for the same weapons and maps yearly

[uncut bay]

the community doesn't always know best, but a competent studio will know what works/what doesn't and strive to implement what the community likes without compromising the integrity of the game

[lyric atlas]

if that's the lazy path they take with the information they gain, that is their lazy path

they dont have to be lazy, though. they can take this information and expand on it. like kato implies

[mossy portal]

Also it doesn’t help that the Battlefield community has been pretty wild as of late. Devs wouldn’t touch us with a ten foot pole

[tepid agate]

This is why I never run into myhttps://twitter.com/DanielWootton6/status/1357355941327372290?t=0EGX-dr7BmJIeq-Xb8FGHw&s=19 smoke 😂 😂 😂

[lyric locust]

you don't work with people, do you?

[lyric atlas]

get help

[eternal storm]

not excusing AAA development because they are making some super shit moves across the board, but it must have been nicer maknig videogames prior to social medica/internet being so widespread now

[lyric atlas]

that's a level of delusion ive never seen before. i dont work with people because i tell you how developers can take another direction rather than merely copy and pasting from community desires?

[mossy portal]

If you’re going to post your opinion for everyone to see don’t be shocked when someone disagrees

[lyric atlas]

you claim that they will just take the stupid shit the community wants, and just add it in? no. that's your assumption, but in reality, they'd be best to expand on it

im not shocked, im just telling him he's delusional

[eternal storm]

"a level of delusion youve never seen before"- are you an adult?\

[mossy portal]

That’s going a bit far

[lyric atlas]

whether i work with people or not isnt even relevant, he is imaginign an explanation for why he's wrong that has nothing to do with this

that's why i call it delusion. because he's making up an excuse that has nothing to do with argumentation

[eternal storm]

yeah but...exaggerate much lol?

[lyric locust]

Your copium cup is overflowing, calm down. Your suggestion was stupid, and it was called out as stupid.

[lyric atlas]

like, i could say the same thing to him. does he like the color blue? is that why he thinks developers should ignore the community?

tell me, what's stupid? can you repeat it with a straight face?

[mossy portal]

I also think it’s a stupid idea to listen to the community. In every circumstance? No. For battlefield, yeah.

[lyric atlas]

it's stupid to...listen to the community. that's what you're saying.

[tepid agate]

Let's calm down people

[mossy portal]

Does that make me delusional as well?

[lyric locust]

YES!

[lyric atlas]

then it's no wonder battlefield is fucked

[simple merlin]

Yep

[lyric atlas]

they didnt listen to us for bf2042, and now it's fucked. they're trying to listen to us, and it's getting less fucked. it isnt a coincidence

[rain wolf]

Keep in mind, the players who actually use social media and engage in the community represent a tiny portion of the actual playerbase, especially for a somewhat casual FPS like Battlefield

[lyric atlas]

no, because i didnt say it was delusional to believe that

[eternal storm]

theyre not listening to you lol, they KNEW what they had to do before, they just didnt becausee somewhere in their development something fucked up

[lyric locust]

You look at what community wants and you look at what you can do, to keep it within vision of your product. Community is worst possible source to listen to, since it runs 90% on emotion

[lyric atlas]

i already said that...?

[tepid agate]

Most of the actual player base statyed quiet at put it away on the shelf

[lyric locust]

you said do as community says

[lyric atlas]

i already said that they dont need to copy and paste the things the community wants. i said that they take it and expand on it

[rain wolf]

So the "community" will typically be more hardcore and have opinions more biased towards their own experience without considering that of the average player

[eternal storm]

and they did expand on it- by making a bigger playerbase, with tornados/sandstorm, and 'hero' specialists...

they just released a disgustingly unfinished product

[lyric locust]

All game devs have internal statistics, that should influence all decisions, not Discord/Twitter/Reddit or forums.

[mossy portal]

The delusion is thinking that the community can rally together and just give them ideas and boom game is magically better. I’m a fan, you’re a fan, and we clearly have two opposing ideas of what’s best, so what makes you think that the community can just all agree on one thing?

[lyric atlas]

they dont have to agree, that's the point of the developers mediating the schizophrenic desires of the community and turning it into something with their talent

[mossy portal]

Schizophrenic desires. That doesn’t help your argument here

[eternal storm]

delusions...schizophrenia...i am getting the impression you dont know what these words mean

[lyric atlas]

...it's a saying for when a mass of people have discordant ideas

[lyric locust]

i guess school is not in today :/

[lyric atlas]

jesus that's desperate as fuck

[eternal storm]

as an ED RN...i have to disagree..

[lyric atlas]

??? schizophrenics dont have discordant ideas??

[mossy portal]

You’re extending this way beyond the original scope of the conversation

[lyric atlas]

no, im not, people are just saying dumb shit and i have to respond

[tepid agate]

Chill people we are gunna get some damadged keyboards

[mossy portal]

Have you considered that not everything you say is correct?

[lyric atlas]

i said they should take ideas from the community and expand on it

[eternal storm]

i think someone here would benefit with some time for self reflection

[lucid goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/arnold-schwarzenegger-peeking-serious-im-watching-you-gif-16975119

[lyric atlas]

you gonna respond to the question i asked you?

[nova barn]

This lamb dude is crazy, just look at his steam profile its clear hes obsessed with public image and attention

[mossy portal]

Oh shit hit the deck

[tepid agate]

Lol

[lyric atlas]

p...public image...?

[lyric locust]

'nade tracking!

[eternal storm]

friend, I have to work 3 days a week with people like you, im not here to answer your questions lol

[lyric atlas]

because you know you were wrong, and you just want to skip out without having to admit it lol

[eternal storm]

of course

[tepid agate]

All moderators watching this thread 😂

[nova barn]

132 badges, level 91, multiple weeb themed showcases, 500+ games

[mossy portal]

https://tenor.com/view/trump-everythings-fine-its-okay-okay-gif-7645437

[lyric atlas]

anyway, sorry that i think the developers who just released a stinker from failing to listen to the community should listen to the community

[lyric atlas]

tf does that have to do with public image?

[lucid goblet]

we're always watching.....

[nova barn]

did you even preorder the game

[lyric atlas]

wtf does that have to do with anything

[lucid goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/paranoid-theyre-probably-watching-us-right-now-big-brother-is-watching-the-simpsons-bart-simpson-gif-5417245

[tepid agate]

I'm also seeing how this unfolds

[lyric atlas]

you said schizophrenics have agreeing and congruous ways of thought. that's what you said.

[nova barn]

you dont spend a hundred bucks in random game badges to level up for your own amusement do you?

[eternal storm]

lol...where exactly did i say that

[lyric atlas]

i think i did, actually

[lyric locust]

i think thesaurus is malfunctioning 😄

[lyric atlas]

i said they had discordant thoughts. you said they didnt.

[nova barn]

yeah my point stands 💀

[mossy portal]

I thought this was a civilized conversation about the Battlefield games and now we have a pseudo-intellectual having a brain measuring contest

[lucid goblet]

can we keep the discussion civil and less of the using mental health as insults please otherwise i'll start yeet'ing people.... thanks

[eternal storm]

also didnt say that either...are you feeling ok?

[tepid agate]

I remember this all started with a talk about specialists and classes....

Now we're here 😆

[nova barn]

I was muted for posting birgitta on showcases channel

[lyric atlas]

^^^

literally a liar

[eternal storm]

oh dear

[lyric atlas]

oh dear indeed, you have no interest in responding, just gaslighting

[eternal storm]

lol

[lucid goblet]

if you have an issue with an infraction then DM ModMail.

[lyric atlas]

idk, what am i even supposed to say now? i just think differently from yall

[eternal storm]

anyways. what date does season start

[nova barn]

no it wasnt a video

[eternal storm]

agreed

[lyric atlas]

i think developers should take into account the views of the community.

[tepid agate]

@eternal storm clever move! Let's proceed!

[nova barn]

Bro censoring world news

[lucid goblet]

a topic that has nothing to do with this channel...

[lyric locust]

with summer! Good weather, and season start, not a smart move from EA tbh. Season should have been started two months ago

[uncut bay]

in actuality the majority of the player base doesn't care that much about the game, casual players are busy and will buy what they think looks cool. Only the minority cares deeply about the game, and that's why games steer towards being generic and "catch-all", so that they can appeal to the majority of gamers that don't really care all that much about petty arguments on what "a real battlefield" is. This doesn't mean that they shouldn't listen to people who care about the game, but it explains why it may not be in their best interest to do so. Regardless, i believe the ideal scenario would be a studio working with the community, filtering what works and what doesn't to make a game that's both original and enjoyable by long-term fans

[nova barn]

deletion °°

[tepid agate]

They said early summer too so maybe expect it in July

[haughty raft]

Yep that season 1 release delay is hurting the game

[nova barn]

Whats season 1

[lyric atlas]

exactly. studio should work with the community, it's very obvious

[tepid agate]

Better they fix the broken mess than add more content on top lol

[nova barn]

I preordered ultimate last year

[lyric atlas]

is it a coincidence, i wonder, that bf2042 is getting better as they listen to the community?

[nova barn]

wym listen

[haughty raft]

There’s a very obvious disconnect between a huge studio like that and a small minority of players who use social media. Not a great idea.

[tepid agate]

They said they have learned a valuable lesson

[lyric atlas]

they take the complaints and fix them with their developer skills

[nova barn]

isnt that what they said theyll do in the first place?

[uncut bay]

i don't think 2042 is the best example. The game is improving because they're adding basic features that should've already been there, no input needed from the community to figure those out

[nova barn]

not news

[lyric atlas]

so...you agree that they are and should be listening to the community?

[tepid agate]

Right bring back a scoreboard 😂

[nova barn]

I stated that it was made clear they would before release anyways so its not a new thing

[lyric atlas]

the game is improving because people hated aspects of it, and so they fix them. the only basis for a game being bad are the thoughts of people, anyway, so listening to them makes perfect sense

[lyric atlas]

okay, i never said it was new...? what does that have to do with anything?

so much intellectual dishonesty i s2g

[haughty raft]

You talk a lot about how the studio should listen to the community? What exactly is the community going to provide to them?

[lyric atlas]

it will provide to them the things that they enjoy. the features, the mechanics, the weapons, the class systems, etc

you guys, ultimately, want our thoughts to be ignored and for them to act solely in a cash-grabbing sense

[nova barn]

none of those need community input whichll be biased anyways

[uncut bay]

you could argue that and you'd be right, but a standard had been set prior to the game's release. Them bringing the game up to that standard after release doesn't necessarily mean they're listening to the community, which is why i say it's not the greatest example

[heavy linden]

a list of bugs, unwanted features that nobody likes, new weapon ideas, ideas for vehicle balancing, new maps designs

[lyric atlas]

everything is biased. meaningless

[dire quest]

Large scale rush battles have been fun in portal

[heavy linden]

and feedback on current maps

[lyric locust]

that is how you get OP stuff

[haughty raft]

Agreed

[lyric atlas]

i just cant even imagine trying to argue against the players being under slight control of the direction of the game.

[nova barn]

bugs being fixed as they arise, unwanted features nobody likes? name a few. new weapons arent necessary at this point, new maps are being developed.

[nova barn]

#game-news

[lyric atlas]

how is anyone supposed to read this as anything else besides you desperately trying to justify why they shouldnt listen to the community?

[nova barn]

Never said they shouldnt at all.

[lyric atlas]

oh, but that's what this whole discussion is about

i said they should listen to the community and expand on their desires by leveraging their talent. and somehow that was disagreeable

[haughty raft]

It’s an objectively bad idea for Battlefield devs to listen to the community. Especially now with so much vitriol

[lucid goblet]

The main issue with "listening to the community" is each individual player has their own preference/idea on how it should be, which i is fine, but from a development POV it's an absolute minefield of decisions and making everything work and be enjoyable for the vast majority, i guarantee they are listening to feedback posted on here/AHQ/Reddit and social media etc but changes take a lot of time, i believe S1 will be a great turning point for the game personally.

[lyric atlas]

you're confusing the schizophrenic nature of the community with an inability to gain information from it

[tepid agate]

Y'all need to let advancedlamb breathe

[lyric atlas]

just because it is difficult to know the best and worst advice doesnt mean it isnt possible to gain something from the advice

[haughty raft]

It’s arrogant to think that it would be easy and beneficial for devs to just look at every piece of feedback and wave their magic wand and make it appear in game

[lyric atlas]

bro...who said that? who?

[lyric locust]

@lyric atlas there is a very good point, why devs should largely ignore community "wants" and stick to needs. When WoW launched, community said that Warrior was weak and needed huge buff. When in reallity, Warrior was so OP it could single handedly run dungeons if built correctly and needed enormous nerf. Community is the last place you should look for any game ideas beyond QoL stuff

[uncut bay]

that isn't what anyone is saying. In fact i've explicitly said more than once that filtering feedback is an important part of working with a game's community

[lyric atlas]

and the community couldnt have mentioned that fact at all? nonsense.

[haughty raft]

I’m not interested in your semantics. Please just accept not every one in here agrees with what you’re saying.

[lyric atlas]

if they listened to the community, they'd see some people saying that warrior is OP and can solo raids. they would notice this.

[lyric atlas]

except they actually seem to

[lyric locust]

Community yelled for buffs, until one person came out and showed how "weak" warior is. So yes, on avg. community is dumb and doesnt know how game works, or what it needs.

[lyric atlas]

almost everyone is unanimously agreeing that listening to the community is useful, but it isnt a cure-all

[worthy inlet]

[uncut bay]

semantics lol? You put up a strawman and it was pointed out. If you don't want to argue in good faith simply do not engage

[haughty raft]

I don’t want to argue about fallacies and shit this isn’t a political debate y’all are taking this way too far

[lyric atlas]

the community is a source of information that is passionate about the game, and have lots of experience in it. they arent perfect, but neither is any other source of information. you may be able to make a useless argument like 'this one time in wow...', but i can make the same argument against why developers shouldnt be all alone in making their decisions

[lucid goblet]

one thing that should of been done wayy before launch was playtesting, playtesting and more playtesting with the playerbase, a lot of the launch issues could of been dealt with way in advance if this was the case.

[tepid agate]

I think the beta came relatively close to launch

[haughty raft]

I’m smoking and chilling last thing I’m worried about is brushing up on my debate skills

[lyric atlas]

ok then dont argue my man if you dont like it when people argue with a basis

[uncut bay]

then don't be surprised when someone points out a flaw in your argument. Unlike you, some are trying to have a productive discussion

[haughty raft]

A flaw in my argument?

[lyric atlas]

OSRS is a great example of listening to the community

[haughty raft]

I was just trying to say it’s not as easy at it sounds

I’m not discrediting what he’s saying.

[lyric atlas]

i think what is realistic is that, those community decisions which are polarizing should be looked into further, they shouldnt just go 'oh 51% voted for X, we do X now'

and like i already said, i never said it was easy, its ease was never a part or even relevant to my argument. it is likely harder, and the hard path is the most likely path to a deep experience that people enjoy

community expectations like a scoreboard or squad comms is, believe it or not, an example of listening to the community. you may try to call it 'just living up to standards', but standards are determined by the community and what they expect

[haughty raft]

This is ironic considering I was already apart of this conversation but switched accounts

[lyric locust]

Community has way less information than dev tools show to devs, and it's not exclusive to WoW, it's best known example. What community has - a lot of ego and non-objective view thinking they are better and know better, just like you are acting now. You have no objective proof, that listening to community helped game, beyond saying it does for BF2042, while devs are just doing what was planned by devs themselves.

[lyric atlas]

you're on your own here, you know?

no one agrees with you that they shouldnt listen to the community. that is an absurd viewpoint, not even the people here are on-board with it

[tepid agate]

You can't cater everything though you still must go with your vision. Can't rely on your staff telling you have to run your company

[lyric atlas]

of course you cant cater everyone. but if you let your community guide you, you can cater to the most people

[uncut bay]

A: developers should work more closely with the community, taking feedback from players and implementing what works
Your response: it's not that simple, they can't just look at everything and have it magically appear in game

do you see the issue? Nobody said it was simple, nobody said it would be instantaneous, and nobody said everything should be implemented. You attacked one viewpoint using another, which was never voiced

[haughty raft]

I knew that would be word vomit

[lyric atlas]

you didnt even read it lol

[lyric locust]

you mean by disabling community polls jsut to fix stuff, that community voted was needed and broke the game? Totally agree

[tepid agate]

Yes, get feedback and I prove it with your vision

[haughty raft]

No I didn’t read it because I have enough context from earlier in the conversation and I’m not worried about what I said

[uncut bay]

average discord user when faced with more than one sentence lmao

[lyric locust]

and OSRS were dealing with fall out of "listening to community" for last 2 years now

[lyric atlas]

so you're just a liar

[haughty raft]

What

[lyric atlas]

you accuse someone's argument as being word vomit but you admit seconds later that you didnt even read it

[haughty raft]

Yes it’s word vomit so I didn’t read it

[lyric atlas]

that...wow

do you even know what word vomit is?

[tepid agate]

I haven't seen a debate like this in servers before

[lucid goblet]

https://tenor.com/view/the-goon-star-wars-stormtrooper-move-along-move-gif-12464798

[uncut bay]

i'll be ignoring your input from now on, thanks

[haughty raft]

When you’re stoned like me right now, you don’t care for it

[lyric atlas]

it isnt just any words you dislike or disagree with. it's when the words make no sense. but you cant tell that they made no sense because you didnt even read it

[haughty raft]

I just like keeping things simple

[lyric atlas]

polls in OSRS are still going. stop misleading me rune

[tepid agate]

My man what's the main things you enjoy with 2042? Let's sway topic 😄

[lyric atlas]

you try to pretend that they ignore them, but they keep them going. you dont mention that because it'd be rather inconvenient, eh?

[lyric locust]

pretty much your chat history. Not the point, if you have actual proof that community has helped to better any game without massive fall out later on, please do at your earliest convenience. I give you a decade to wait for that to happen 😉

[lyric atlas]

OSRS. rekt

[haughty raft]

I do apologize if I offended anyone, but to attack me because I made a mistake in my argumentative skills is a bit much

[lyric locust]

Just told you, they disabed community polls to fix second land mass added by same polls and are dealing with it for 2 years now

[lyric atlas]

um the polls are still going?

[lyric locust]

to fix new land mass... 😄 cause Jagex couldnt deliver what community wanted

[uncut bay]

nobody attacked you, we pointed out said mistake and you showed quite clearly that you weren't interested in a healthy or productive discussion

[lyric atlas]

is the community perfect? no. do they sometimes make decisions that dont work out? yes. but so too do developers make the same mistakes. the best idea is to have both sides work together

[lyric locust]

you just proved that you do not know waht you are talking about, provided proof you were wrong and went to ad hominem. perfect strategy, good day to you sir in my block list

[lyric atlas]

im trying to post a link to the OSRS polls, but i cant

[haughty raft]

You’re pointing out a minor fallacy I made while discrediting everything else I had added to the conversation. Get off your high horse

[lyric atlas]

oh well, guy is running away after lying about OSRS having no community polls

[lyric locust]

chat is so much cleaner instantly 😄 so lovely

and nothing of importance was lost

[lyric atlas]

idk, i dont tend to take blocking as a victory, but i think this is one of those times

[tepid agate]

Can we get back to battlefield discussions

[lyric atlas]

this is a battlefield discussion, to be fair

[uncut bay]

wouldn't have been an issue if you'd accepted the correction and moved on

[lyric locust]

we were trying 😄

[shy bronze]

🛌

[tepid agate]

He's a liar she's a liar

[lyric atlas]

the dude claimed there are no community polls for the last two years. that's a lie.

[tepid agate]

He's wrong he apologized... We moved on not add fuel to it

[lyric atlas]

there are over a dozen polls for 2021 and 2020

[haughty raft]

Back to your original question Xeno, I think the only thing I like about 2042 is the gunplay and that says something

[lyric atlas]

if they listened to the community, they'd know that the tiny weapon arsenal and relatively lackluster vehicle customization were huge problems.

[tepid agate]

I try to get them up to mastery. Only got about 4-5 weapons so far lol

[lyric atlas]

they'd also know, if they listened to the community, that destruction is part of the lifeblood of battlefield, and without it, the game suffers greatly

[tepid agate]

Yes you're right, he apologized

[haughty raft]

I think you make good points lamb and I wasn’t trying to discredit your argument. I have been burnt on NMS, Cyberpunk, and now 2042. So yeah to a certain degree, yes player feedback is helpful

[lyric atlas]

yep. luckily, i think we all agree. except for that one dude

[tepid agate]

So do you have favourite interests currently in 2042?

[lyric atlas]

what do you mean by that?

[uncut bay]

NTW 💪

[tepid agate]

Favourite aspects of the game

[lyric atlas]

the gunplay is very smooth and i think the vehicle gameplay is quite good as well

[haughty raft]

For all the hate vehicles get, and as an infantry only player, I think vehicles are in a decent spot

[tepid agate]

I had issues when the pacth came out reset my entire controller mapping for vehicles.

Started flying and crashed it all lol

[lyric atlas]

the main problems with the game are map design, lack of destruction, lack of content for vehicle and weapon arsenals, and the specialist system somewhat messing with the pre-existing class structure gameplay loop

[haughty raft]

I’d probably enjoy the game more if I had a premade but I’m constantly solo q’ing

[tepid agate]

With no classes it's like a big free for all. Soloing it is they way

[rain wolf]

2042 actually has a decent amount of content, it's just that half of it is in Portal so if you only play AoW it feels like the game has a lot less

[lyric atlas]

that's true

[haughty raft]

Idk even with specialists I think having a premade is beneficial because you have some semblance of teamwork rather than none.

[lyric atlas]

they should probably free portal content from its chains

[rain wolf]

Like Portal has 40+ unique guns (meaning all the different versions of the 1911 still counting as one gun) or something like that

[haughty raft]

Portal could’ve been great but the bot farms and subsequent XP nerfs hurt Portal before it could really pick up steam

[tepid agate]

Who needs to stick with a squad member with ammo crates when I can be a sniper in the mountins with unlimited supply myself

[nova barn]

dmg is ass for snipers

[rain wolf]

you say that as if the specialist system affected the amount of people sniping from miles away at all

[haughty raft]

I have an unused 1500 tickets Portal server that’s just 24/7 TDM on Noshahr

[tepid agate]

Same again, who needs push up into the battlefield when I can drop vehicles in the roofs and rain down cannons on breakaway 😄

[tepid agate]

This is just one example or specialists detaching squads sticking together. They can have what ever they want

[lyric atlas]

i just want to know the argument against player feedback being considered without lying about OSRS

[mellow python]

at least it pushes them to move once they are out of the ammo to replenish

[lyric atlas]

i really want to know why im wrong on this, but it doesnt appear that i am

[haughty raft]

Randoms in this game are useful for the occasional revive, but mostly just as a spawn point lmao

[tepid agate]

They can legit camp the whole game not worrying about finding ammo lol

[mellow python]

exactly

[tepid agate]

You're not wrong, we move on

[rain wolf]

and if they're camping in the same spot the whole game it should be very easy to find them and kill them, no?

[lyric atlas]

but people were like, calling me insane for my viewpoint, i just want to know...am i crazy?

[haughty raft]

I main Falck with an ammo crate, you wish you had me on your squad hahaha

[rain wolf]

and if they have an ammo box, it means they have no insertion beacon to respawn on

[uncut bay]

hardly a revive, i swear all the medics in my games only heal themselves

[tepid agate]

Not when there 128 players in game finding 10 snipers

To Kuch other stuff to worry about

[lyric atlas]

considering the actual way those people responded to being called out on their statements of facts, i naught but assume i am correct

[haughty raft]

I think there were some in disagreement but it doesn’t make you crazy or anything

[tepid agate]

Or a sniper supposed to be more stealth firing damn rocket launchers lol

[lyric locust]

you aren't correct, you aren't worth time

[mellow python]

🤣

[lyric atlas]

yes yes, like how you lied about OSRS

also, it's weird how no one agrees with you, isnt it rune?

[tepid agate]

Y'all like a married couple 🤗 🍻 😁

[lyric locust]

Getting sniped from god knows where wouldnt make for good time

[lyric atlas]

because ultimately, everyone agrees that they should listen to player feedback

your attempt to justify why they shouldnt forced you to make an ad hominem and to lie about OSRS

[tepid agate]

I get snipped with rocket launchers from God knows where because anyone can have access to anything

[lyric atlas]

it's pretty classic, par for the course. exactly what i expect from a random human

[haughty raft]

Might be beneficial for both of you to let that go

[lyric atlas]

i suppose. but i just want to know the argument for why player feedback should be ignored and developers should act like an isolated island

[lyric locust]

Sniper glare is there to "help" players see snipers, if you played ARMA or Squad you know how terrifying snipers are - you hear the shot and you see respawn screen with no indication, where shot came from

[tepid agate]

Why are you reviving this heated discussion?

[lyric locust]

yeah, that's stupid quirk of the game, but i like it, gives good fighting chance against tanks

[lyric atlas]

because i want to know what i did wrong. but these people run away and make me wonder what it is

so im trying to get an idea from others that dont run away

[tepid agate]

You are right. Let's move on

[haughty raft]

“Enemy Man - Front - 300m” and then you just die

[lyric locust]

if its sub sonic bullet, you hear "pow'

[lyric atlas]

crazy how the chat was so active when they saw a 'person who it was okay to disagree with openly' but now it's quiet

[tepid agate]

Super crazy

[lyric atlas]

mob mentality does not disappear just because we're on the internet

[uncut bay]

honestly most gunfire is terrifying in arma and squad. I still remember my first mission with a unit, we were huddled up against an ambulance trying to figure out where the frontline went

jokes on us, we were the frontline

[haughty raft]

What’s terrifying is artillery in Squad

[lyric locust]

yeah, BF fails to capture gun sounds, they sound like plastic toys in all games

[lyric atlas]

you dont think that's interesting? that mob mentality can be seen on discord?

[haughty raft]

That shit makes me nervous

[lyric atlas]

dayz has some based gun sounds

[lyric locust]

I loved BF2 artilerry sounds, you could hear enemy arty fire and then you have 5 seconds of dread, that it is pointed at you

[uncut bay]

good artillery sound design is nightmare inducing

one of the things i find BFV nailed was vehicle sounds

[lyric locust]

BFV missed out of arty sounds

[haughty raft]

Guys BFV gave me ptsd whenever I hear a Condor I look up trying to find a V1 lmao

[lyric locust]

I love 2042 tank sounds just as much, tbf

[haughty raft]

Makes me wish that the interiors were more detailed instead of just darkness and vignette

[uncut bay]

i don't spend much time near tanks or in them, so i can't really compare. But also yeah V1 rockets were incredible, just the entirety of BFV was jaw dropping when i came back to it a few months ago

[lyric locust]

There was shooter that did "inside" gunfire right

[lyric atlas]

hunt showdown has really good audio design

[haughty raft]

I agree I’ve played that with some friends and it’s really good about keeping you on your toes

I can appreciate a game that has good sound design

[uncut bay]

i hear (lol) a lot about hunt and its sound design, i want to give it a try some day

[lyric locust]

its exaggerated to fit gameplay, wouldn't say it's "good", but its great for what game is supposed to be

[lyric atlas]

i wonder if there are any games that raytrace audio. i thought hunt was one of them, but i cant find any info about that

[haughty raft]

…RT audio? That exists?

[lyric atlas]

hunt is literally known for having some of the best audio in gaming. i think rune is confusing good with realistic

[lyric locust]

Insurgency did inside shooting right, that

[uncut bay]

yes, forza horizon 5 does that

[lyric atlas]

yeah, it can and likely does...somewhere

[haughty raft]

Ah man insurgency haven’t heard that in a while definitely awesome sound design

[lyric locust]

no, Frostbite has something similar, but most games, like forza uses Dolby to "emulate" it

[lyric atlas]

not much use in forza having RT audio

[lyric locust]

something that is close to real spatial audio, is DCS World, but it is demanding on system

but games, ultimately wouldn't benefit much over now used systems

[haughty raft]

Yeah unless you’re an audiophile the average consumer wouldn’t know the difference

[lyric atlas]

it's more about the effect it has on how gun audio carries through buildings and across landscapes

[lyric locust]

it needs a lot more power to project audio correctly also a lot more robust network structure for online games

[lyric atlas]

if you shoot in a basement, the audio would be dampened greatly with RT audio, and that would have a gameplay impact

[haughty raft]

Tarkov has some pretty good sound design

[lyric locust]

its not in a quality of audio, rather distance, interaction with surroundings

Tarkov uses same concept as Arma

[lyric atlas]

the problem with RT audio is that it has an impact on gameplay, so it wouldnt be fair for some to have it and others not to. and for now, RT audio would likely be too expensive. in like 6 years when everyone has a gpu with RT cores (which i presume can do RT audio), it will be more likely to be adopted

[haughty raft]

I can’t even wrap my head about audio being ray traced

[lyric locust]

because it is stupid

[lyric atlas]

it's how sound works IRL, though sound can go through walls

[lyric locust]

sound engine would have to be modeled after fluids

[haughty raft]

So just really accurate acoustics

[lyric atlas]

yep. no more could you shoot deep inside a bunker and be audible to others, but at the same time, you could be audible to those who realistically could hear you if you left the doors open or something

it'd literally add a whole layer of depth to the gameplay, to say it's stupid is rather...laughable

[lyric locust]

yes, and ray tracing would mean it wouldnt work like sounds, but light

[lyric atlas]

no it wouldnt?

you can have transparent surfaces, and that's how sound works just like light

it isnt like RT makes it impossible for light to go through surfaces. some surfaces, like windows, allow light through while still having slight bounces depending on its thickness

in a game like tarkov, you could use RT audio to pinpoint where people are based on the nature of the sound. if you know there's a warehouse in a certain direction, when you hear a severely muffled shot, you know where it came from. if you hear an echo behind you, you know that there is a clear path between the sound source and the echo location

like said, not everyone can imagine the gameplay implications, but it's far larger than RT ever could offer

[haughty raft]

Yeah I don’t think liquid is the right comparison here it’d have to behave like light

[lyric locust]

It doesn't calculate for destructive interference, or how sound wave propagates or interacts with surroundings.

[haughty raft]

Surfaces would have to be transparent to simulate absorption and stuff

[lyric atlas]

yes it does?

it wouldnt be about waves, though. but that isnt exactly important

if you solely had a wooden wall between you and a target, the sound would leak through far more than if the wall was made of solid metal. you dont need to simulate the waves to get this.

[lyric locust]

Surfaces are not transparent to sound per se in real world. You need to dampen it, also, some sound is reflected, some sound should be cancel out due to interference by other sound waves. Certain objects should make sounds lower volume. There is a reason, why scientific equipment uses fuild mechanics for sound immitation

[lyric atlas]

what does that even mean

[arctic grove]

it means that im gay

[lyric atlas]

like, sure, it wouldnt be perfect, but so?

[haughty raft]

I mean fundamentally ray tracing couldn’t effectively simulate things like diffraction and interference

But not entirely impossible

[lyric atlas]

i mean, it can

though you are right that it isnt effective at it. for now.

[lyric locust]

it would need a lot more calculation power to force sound act like sound, by using light calculation methods, while wanting very accurate acoustic design

[lyric atlas]

idk what the point of his statements are at this point besides contrarianism

RT audio = bad because it isnt perfect. amazing

[haughty raft]

Well yeah it’s not going to be a perfect 1:1 recreation of how it works in real life

[lyric locust]

and difference in quality/price is not enough just for "cool" factor

[lyric atlas]

it isnt about cool factor. it has gameplay implications. this guy has no idea what he's on about

tarkov is a perfect example of how it could add a new dimension to the gameplay

[haughty raft]

I think the point is that light waves, in certain ways, behave similarly to sound waves so if you had enough rays/particles you could simulate sound pretty accurately.

[lyric atlas]

yep. and you could just use little shortcuts to fix any major discrepancies

it is, however, too expensive for the current time

though i guess it probably isnt that expensive if it uses RT cores

[lyric locust]

I am not saying, it is impossible, it just need more juice, than it is worth. Reason why current sound design largely ignores walls is - its cheaper and has almost no cost on CPU

[haughty raft]

It definitely sounds like a novelty at the moment but in time I think it could have interesting uses. That’s what lamb is saying

[lyric atlas]

i wonder if there are any tech demos that use RT cores to do RT audio

it'd be cool to see just how expensive it is

[haughty raft]

I think a game would have to be designed around RT audio for it to really shine

[lyric locust]

no idea what he is saying, nor care enough to not ignore him, in future ofc we will get better sound simulation, but not with current tech

[lyric atlas]

this dude would be arguing against 3d graphics because it's 'too expensive' and 'not worth it'

[lyric atlas]

yep. everyone would have to use it, or else it's pointless and unfair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVp88IjDX24

you can literally tell where the dude is walking based on the sound

whether he's under something, next to a wall, etc.

[haughty raft]

That’s a nice example

[lyric atlas]

it also just adds so much more variety to the sounds

[haughty raft]

Idk this guy is talking about how expensive and intensive it is but here it is, running in Unreal engine lol

[lyric atlas]

and that was in 2017

[haughty raft]

A horror game with that kind of audio would be so cool

[lyric atlas]

in singleplayer games, it'd add so much immersion to the world

https://youtu.be/Ozhywx2YbzM

an example of a medieval type environment to give an idea what sort of differences it makes for sound. imagine like a king talking, you could hear him so differently if you decided to hide on the roofs vs being inside

you could hear someone talking far away, and know that they're at least a few rooms away because of the echos

i think it's not just worth it, but it's possible NOW

[uncut bay]

it definitely has incredible potential

[lyric atlas]

yeah...it's basically inevitable. the first game that manages to make it part of the gameplay will likely get some good attention. FH5 got some attention for its implementation, but racing games arent exactly good for this sort of thing

[haughty raft]

Yeah it seems kinda pointless for Forza

[lyric atlas]

it's only really good if you're in a city i guess

[haughty raft]

Unless you’re driving through a tunnel I can’t see any other practical uses

[lyric atlas]

yeah basically. racing games are too large scale for this sort of thing to be appreciable

[lyric locust]

UT has simulation of what you were talking about, its no way perfect. Source has something similar, but it is just built in env factor that was put while building map, just like UT5 tool does

[lyric atlas]

it'd be cool to hear the battlefield sounds, all the explosions and such, from within a building. then you walk outside and then all the sounds are far more clear. i think that's very valuable for immersion and for sound differentiation when fighting inside vs outside

[lyric locust]

you have to actually put trigger for those, true accurate acoustics would need to calculate it, like RTX cards do with light

[haughty raft]

Okay I think I’m seeing this contrarianism

[lyric atlas]

if someone argues against an obvious advancement of something, they're most likely just a contrarian. to point out flaws or difficulties in a strategy is just a desperate attempt to make yourself seem knowledgeable and relevant against an inevitability

[lyric locust]

we might be talking about different things, my assumption is you want true acoustics with not in-engine triggers, where sounds source calculates all interactions for give representation to players

[haughty raft]

People like that are always the most pessimistic

[lyric atlas]

did 3D graphics have flaws? for example, could you have said 'the 3d models will need to look like shit because you cant realistically model 3d humans'? yes, but...so?

[haughty raft]

Even ray tracing is still nothing more than a gimmick

[lyric atlas]

true. but that's partially because the fake lighting they've made is actually so good

sound doesnt quite seem to be up to that level of fake quality

also, lighting is very difficult to comprehend. what is a scene supposed to LOOK like? it's hard to know. but we all know, deeply, what stuff is supposed to SOUND like

[haughty raft]

You know what pisses me off? Frostbite has always had amazing spatial audio and for some reason in 2042 it’s awful

[lyric locust]

oh, that's frostbite problem - very hard to work with

[uncut bay]

for real, sometimes i need to double check that i don't have RT enabled. Some SSRs are just really damn good

[lyric locust]

frostbite is very nice sounding and good looking engine in general

[lyric atlas]

indeed frostbite is known for being a nightmare to work with. somehow

[haughty raft]

Even the Need for Speed games using frostbite looked and sounded amazing

NFS Rivals holds up very nicely

[lyric locust]

I would argue Frostbite is best looking game engine to date

[lyric atlas]

cryengine, ue5

ue5 one shots everything, easy

[uncut bay]

frostbite is good but i can't say it holds a light to UE5

[haughty raft]

Frostbite definitely pales in comparison to UE5

[lyric atlas]

though i guess it's kinda unfair since it isnt in a game

except that matrix thing. but it's now released...so

[haughty raft]

That UE5 showcase they had last year was just mind blowing

[lyric atlas]

cryengine is also probably better looking than frostbite. games like star citizen are amazing looking

[lyric locust]

It fails to UE4 demo as well, but UE4 failed to reach that level, will wait for actual games with UE5 and hyper realistic visual to judge it

[lyric atlas]

you can go play the matrix thing right now

[haughty raft]

Yeah I could download it on my ps5 rn it’s free I’m pretty sure

[lucid goblet]

Try to stick with BF2042 in here please, if you wish to discuss UE5 etc go to #technology 👍

[uncut bay]

yep, incredible tech demo

[upbeat sand]

i would like the support healers have snipers removed, mainly cause how can you counter something that just hides in a corner 200m away with an ar

[haughty raft]

oh yeah 2042 lol

[lyric atlas]

carpo: people being mean? nah
also carpo: people talking about UE5 by an organic topic switch...i cant stand for this

[haughty raft]

has anyone noticed the weird M5A3 meta going on with the close combat mags? Been seeing a lot of it

[lyric atlas]

frostbite is very good looking though. i think bf2042 initially* being a BR might be why it seems so shallow

[lyric locust]

been good since launch

farmed to T1 with cqc mags, never needed anything else 😄

[lucid goblet]

if you have an issue with others report it to ModMail.... having a difference of opinion is not "being mean"

[uncut bay]

i'd bet all my money it's due to the BR hype. Large maps, large servers, no scoreboard, a bunch of things indicate that the game was going to be a battle royale initially and had a change midway through. It's a shame

[haughty raft]

Been trying to decide what AR to use but I’m not really feeling any of them

[lyric atlas]

yeah...canned response, i know

[haughty raft]

I think the AK is the only one I like

[lyric locust]

oh no, another BR was not released, oh agony... oh noes

[lyric atlas]

it's not just the BR hype, it's the theory that it was literally made to be a BR

[uncut bay]

i find the AK to be the best for me, M5 is okay but feels weird

[lyric atlas]

not sure if it's true, but it makes so much sense

[lyric locust]

AK or M5 are only real choices if you want to be flexible on range

[lucid goblet]

AK is good, m5 is still "the best" currently

[uncut bay]

yes, that's what i was referring to. The game was going to be solely a BR, but they tried to salvage it at some point during production and we got the half-assed leftovers through hazard zone

[lyric locust]

dunno, AK feels better at close ranges than M5

[haughty raft]

Definitely. I think the M5 is just made to be the jack of all trades AR, considering it’s the first

It’s consistent so people use it

[uncut bay]

eh consistent isn't the word i'd use, though that goes for all weapons

[next onyx]

Ak24 and M5 are the better guns at the moment.

Pp29 as well.

Subsonic rounds on the m5 gives it a very good 5HK range.

[uncut bay]

except the PP, forgot about that, it's the only gun i can actually say is consistent

[haughty raft]

It felt weird to me after they nerfed it so I haven’t given it an honest chance

[uncut bay]

it's still solid honestly, just kicks harder. But at least bullets go where you aim

[next onyx]

M5 is nice I just wish it had more reserve ammo.

Or generally all guns.

[uncut bay]

don't get me started on the vector. Had to start carrying around an ammo box for myself

[lyric locust]

i love K30 tbh

[next onyx]

At least with the Vector you can carry two reserve drums.

[haughty raft]

I’ve started carrying ammo crates because of the vector too lol

[lyric locust]

I CAN FEEL THAT SENTENCE

[next onyx]

But yeah 20+1 rounds in a mag at the start is pain.

Never again.

[lyric locust]

drum mag aint better, you run out of ammo fast anyway 😄

[haughty raft]

I want so badly to use the MP9 but I can’t see a reason to over the vector

[lyric locust]

better recoil, better range, better ammo retention

[uncut bay]

i was going for vector T1 but honestly it's just really hard, i can never find myself at the correct range since bullets start flying sideways past 20m or so

[lyric locust]

oh, you dont aim vector, you just shoot

[haughty raft]

Yeah lol, hold the fire button, pull down and pray

[lyric locust]

yup, spray n pray

[haughty raft]

8/10 you’ll beam someone at a respectable distance

[uncut bay]

so i hear. Just isn't very fun outside rare circumstances

which is a shame, it's my favorite gun

[haughty raft]

It’s hipfire performance is amazing

[lyric locust]

oh, its always fun, cause other player is most likely fuming at that bullshit

[haughty raft]

I don’t even aim in close quarters

[lyric locust]

Vector is weapon made to destroy enemy morale by being so stupid it works

[haughty raft]

I’ve been trying so hard to get good with the .45 lever action (GVT?) and it’s so bad

I feel like it could be a great weapon but it’s just eh

It’s pinpoint accurate and has amazing projectile velocity but it’s tough to use if you’ve been using snipers or DMRs frequently

[low timber]

And subsonic ammo on K30 and MP9 is only 20 rounds

[lyric atlas]

mp9 is awesome in many of the games it's in

[haughty raft]

We’ve got the Vector, and the mp9, but goddamnit if there was a P90 I would be using that all day

[uncut bay]

i really hope for a p90 too

[lyric locust]

Famas or Aug, plox

even F2000 would be ok

[uncut bay]

i've haven't actually used the mp9 yet, same with the shotguns

[haughty raft]

ACR pls

[lyric atlas]

they really should just add a bunch of BF4 weapons

[low timber]

So P180

[lyric locust]

auto shotty is bad, takes longer to kill than K30

[haughty raft]

I was about to start talking shit about the other shotgun but I think I’m realizing I put slugs on it and forgot and think it’s bad

[lyric locust]

ironically, heavy sniper is better shotgun than shotgun 😄

[uncut bay]

man i love the ntw, i was winning every ffa game with the M5 and wanted to try something harder, but the ntw is better than i expected

[haughty raft]

Shotguns are so underwhelming in this game

[low timber]

The MCS-880 difference buckshots are also hard to choose from, not much difference on paper but still all different.

[haughty raft]

I just like the NTW because it’s a one shot to the chest

[lyric locust]

NTW is great anti sniper weapon, if you can use it well - almost always it will be one shot kill to most of the body

[haughty raft]

I wish they didn’t nerf it’s vehicle damage

[uncut bay]

yep, even in close quarters it's pretty good. I don't use it at longer ranges because of the low bullet velocity. And yeah i was hoping it'd stay as a vehicle hunting weapon, now it's more useful against infantry

[low timber]

At least pre 4.0 patch the flechette ammo was the only ammo type that didn’t loose effective range with the heavy suppressor.

[haughty raft]

I don’t understand Flechette

Better penetration yeah but I can’t see it being useful all the time

[low timber]

It should also have penetration on soft cover, like the anti armor rounds.

But not on vehicles ofc.

[lyric locust]

this, but its wonky as hell

[low timber]

And you carry so few rounds of flechette as well.

[ionic saddle]

Thx u

[grizzled whale]

still no replies on my 57mm bug report

a day without 57mm wildcat is a day wasted

[next isle]

What's broken about it?

[upbeat sand]

now you have to aim

[grizzled whale]

when you shoot it the projectile kinda lags

[next isle]

Got a video/link?

[grizzled whale]

it seems like it stops in mid air for a split second

and it doesnt do it all the time, so its really annoying trying to lead your shots now

[shy latch]

Taking into account the small number of maps, their approximate design, the limited choice of weapons available and the monotony of the matches, Battlefield 2042 is a mediocre shooter: not bad, not good, but anonymous and bland.
The biggest problem with this game is that it has "Battlefield" in its name. A name that conjures up a franchise of games from which you expect a certain type of mechanics, gameplay and experience.
Well, this game has very little of "Battlefield".
The dubious and unsuccessful design choices are many, starting with the complete removal of the class system in favor of "operators" that, together with a rewards system that does NOT reward teamplay, has turned the game into a "generic FPS with vehicles". To ruin the teamplay also contributes to the lack of voip, a shared scoreboard and the aforementioned system of "operators", which restricts the possibilities in the choice of gadgets.
The maps are another major sore point: bare, empty, lacking any form of coverage. Result? The gameplay is reduced in trying to run through enemy fire without getting killed to reach this or that goal. These huge open spaces alternate with closed spaces equally empty and bare in which thirty people are trying to shoot each other.
Portal mode, which was meant to embody the sandbox nature of the game, feels more like a jumbled collection of reused assets than a "love letter to fans of the series".
Side notes are the absence of scoreboards, the lack of persistent lobbies (you're forced to redo matchmaking after every match), bugs galore, and a less than promising future for the game.
Maybe one day EA/DICE will wake up and decide to solve the problems of this game (if they are fixable), but in this state better to avoid the purchase and bet on something else.

I took this review from Steam and translated with Deepl (I'm lazy to translate manually this long text), it's funny how people write things that doesn't make sense just for the matter to denigrate something that they don't like; the whole review seems to be a constructive feedback but the highlighted sentence is totally meaningless, without considering other stuffs written above.

[grizzled whale]

thats a wall of text im not gonna read

[next isle]

Not sure I see it in this video, but I'll forward it

[thick copper]

yeesh imagine still posting walls of text on a discord channel

[grizzled whale]

look at the projectile right after it apears, it looks like it comes back a little before it shoots out

[next isle]

Seems like more of a visual bug

[shy latch]

it seems a sort of lag/rubber bending immediately after shooting

[thick copper]

the projectile is reaching terminal velocity then it drops with gravity

[craggy cliff]

Skim!

[lyric atlas]

oh yeah you can see it in that video for sure. going frame by frame you can see it

[grizzled whale]

it started happening after 4.0 and im barely able to hit my shots with it now, while before i was able to hit pretty much anything

[lyric atlas]

it isnt just the whole 'it goes fast at first and then due to perspective and acceleration drops it appears to slow down', it's a literal rubberband

[next isle]

Forwarded it

[grizzled whale]

thanks

it feels horrible to use now

they finally buffed its uphill speed and now i still cant destroy lobbies

[shy latch]

hey @grizzled whale, just for curiosity: in Portal with the M98B sometimes I was unable to shoot when ADS before 4.0 update (I didn't try with the new update, I forgot it), did you ever experienced it?

[grizzled whale]

i have had that happen before yeah, i thought it was a bugged or something, but i dont remember if i had it happen after 4.0

[shy latch]

I reported it on EA bug report forums some time ago but then I don't know if they red it