community-update-classes

[pure zinc]

I use the SAR in battlefield 4 and it lasers

High accuracy, range, stablity.

Slower RPM

[dusk ether]

titanfall made me a kraber main, I now yearn for the sniper in everything

[pure zinc]

50bmg snipers

[lucid hawk]

I like being a more ammo supplier/Suppressive fire role

[dusk ether]

ironically I hate the ntw in 2042 though

zain + sniper is a jam

again if you're in that situation where someone tags you and you headshot them, you get that health back instantly

[reef orbit]

Point I’m making is I’d rather lock it in recon class when a whole squad runs recon and then we can see just how it impacts the game. I just don’t want it to turn into COD and have a bunch of one man Rambos running around … emphasis should be on team play and capping points and even bonus points should be on revives and supplying teammates. I want to bring back my buddy with a kid going 3/35 but getting third place in a match on BF1 because he went full Desmond Doss healing teammates and capping points because that’s all he was good at lol

[pure zinc]

Snipers you can't be a Rambo really

Stop bringing up cod 24/7

Not everything is about cod

You cant Rambo snipers

Only auto=semi auto guns

Also not much people do team play

Majority dont in a match

And people choose the class for the guns often times then not

Not having class locked makes it where people will start choosing a class other then assualt becuase of its ARs

Which is good

Stop thinking about the negative and thing about tthe positive

Both Class locked and none locked have its pros and cons

[feral torrent]

more often than not these rambos even open them points up by taking nice flanks and keep the momentum to hit another flag since lots of ppl are capping it anyway

most ppl who mindlessly rush flags and go 1/20 do more harm to your teams points than good

[reef orbit]

you’re right

[vagrant pebble]

Non locked weapons makes assault useless so they decided to give OP perks to assault which will make everyone use assault anyways.

[shy slate]

Maybe in 1 game in 10000. I honestly have no memories of having trouble with snipers in any BF game past BC2

[pure zinc]

Id say 1 in 100

Some of the snipers in V on pc are nuts

Those are the people that can destroy

[wind oyster]

They do

They give free wallhacks

[pure zinc]

💀

True

Lol

I mean general wise

Like kills

[tropic vine]

I'm fine with nu-assault. The sweats deserve a lil treat i suppose

[wind oyster]

Ye they put a lot of dps in pretty easily so basically any class can 1 tap whoever a scout player shot at

But thats ideally no one actually plays the game

[pure zinc]

Lol true

Me when I dont get revived

🥀🥀🥀🥀

[wind oyster]

Also sniper players take away some positioning options from players so enemies cant really fight back or push in as easily

[tropic vine]

I hope Bolt Action Carbines return

[fresh cliff]

Eh. I honestly think class choice will be pretty balanced. They’ve made pretty much every class really unfun to play against

Assault can have three different engagement ranges + self healing + an anti-tank grenade launcher

Engineer can delete tanks if the double launchers isn’t a bug

Support is the least broken, but ammo + heals is a bit weird

Recon spots you no matter what you do. You’re in their scope? Spotted. You get damaged by them? Spotted. You Spot Them? Spotted

[astral kelp]

yea, all the spotting is going be broken

[pure zinc]

Me when rangefinder in battlefield 4

[tropic vine]

that at nade is definitely bugged, probably supposed to do a tiny amount of damage. No way double engy launchers will survive either

[pure zinc]

I doubt double primaries and double rockets will be in full release

[tropic vine]

Double launchers won't survive because it immediately makes any other engy gadget irrelevant

[fresh cliff]

Probably, yeah. I hope the testers point out the absurdity of double primaries too

I’d be fine with it if it was locked to a few bad guns, but allowing every gun to be a tertiary gun is terrible

[tropic vine]

I see double assault primary surviving if it's limited to shotguns (perhaps with limited attachments)

[reef orbit]

Let’s give another example of why locked guns makes more sense, I’m assault class running med syringe (which means don’t need to rely on a medic as much, this is why I hated this tool in BF2042) and also a LMG (dont need rely on a support)… it’s why BF2042 was so bad… the more bullets you had at your deposal in that game put you at an advantage

point I’m trying to make is teamwork with specific classes even with certain guns makes this game stand strong.

The only guns that should be cross classes are ARs, DMRs/Quick Bolt actions with mini scopes (Similar to Jungle Carbine in BFV) and shotguns

Also would love to see a squad assist bonus if a squad leader calls in a rocket strike on a position and it gets 10 kills on a location. Your squad generated those points, you should be rewarded if your squad leader knows what the hell he’s doing

[tropic vine]

don't care i want unlocked guns

tired of this same old argument

[astral kelp]

They should also not let ARs have super large mags that make LMGs practically pointless

[tropic vine]

real fax

[fresh cliff]

I’d prefer locked guns, but Idrc too much because it’s most likely too late for them to actually change it

[fresh cliff]

Yeah. They need to either be removed or made extremely pricy. Like, 80 points to have a high cap mag

[tropic vine]

locked guns means medic/support is gonna get stuck to some random gun type i absolutely won't wanna play for long periods of time

[dull pier]

i mean they act like they are listening to feedback so idk

[tropic vine]

Yeah hopefully certain attachments get price balances

[dull pier]

not like dice hasn't been above lying about feedback b4 lol

but idk

[fresh cliff]

Eh. If they did it like HL, it wouldn’t be too bad

[tropic vine]

you mean guns unlock after earning enough service stars?

[fresh cliff]

Nah. I mean the class weapon layout

[wind oyster]

Im going to crash out if it has double rockets and double grenade launchers

A very lol yikes gadget balance

[fresh cliff]

This is HL’s for the 90% of you who didn’t play it

Assault:

• ars
• carbines
  Support:
• high caliber battle rifles
• heavy carbines
• lmgs
  Engineer:
• sub machine guns
• high-caliber semi autos (dmrs)
  Recon:
• snipers
• shotguns

[pure zinc]

Yeah its dumb

[tropic vine]

eh it's all arbitrary when they all fight at the same ranges with very similar ttks lol

[tropic vine]

we are seeing changes each time, someone pointed out tiny perk changes for one class from previous times. No way that stuff is surviving as is

[fresh cliff]

I do agree that they all have similar ranges, but every class felt unique when firing.

Ars, carbines, heavy carbines, and battle rifles are all very similar when it comes to engagement distances but feel very different when actually firing

[tropic vine]

yeah but imagine booting up the game and realizing you are forced to use assault, the kd chasing kiddie class, if you want to ever use your favorite gun 💔🥀

[pure zinc]

Exaclty why I like no class locked guns

I want to choose a class without having to worry about my favorite gun being on it or not

[vagrant pebble]

Still will be broken

SMG+shotgun

Literally what I run in CoD

Reloads won’t matter

[gentle star]

We have never had a shotgun as a secondary in any battlefield game

[tropic vine]

it's especially true with modern era games, but people already have a favorite gun (or several) before they even play the game for the first time

[tropic vine]

nope, never. Do not look this up or fact check it

[fresh cliff]

If someone cares so much about their “favorite gun” that they’re forced to use assault, then they are never going to be a team player anyways

[vagrant pebble]

This game has gunsmithing, you can create any AR with any Carbine, LMG or BR

[tropic vine]

that's what DICE has been saying?

[tropic vine]

not true

[vagrant pebble]

BR + shortened barrel = AR

LMG + fast mag = AR

Carbine + long barrel = AR

[tropic vine]

Anyway i love love love medic, but i loved the rsc smg. You can guess what my stats looked like, which is what DICE has said the whole time

[tropic vine]

let me know when you can turn a short barrel AK into an L85

[vagrant pebble]

Short barrel AKS would turn into AKM

[tropic vine]

It doesn't change like you think it changes.

[vagrant pebble]

They should remove gunsmithing if they are going to keep weapons open

[tropic vine]

It's not like CoD.

[vagrant pebble]

It is more broken

[tropic vine]

Sure, but it doesn't change things like you think it does.

[fresh cliff]

No. That’s just my two cents

Though, players that care so much about using a marginally better gun so much that they only play assault also aren’t the type of person to give up self healing and grenade launchers.

The assault players that “always picked assault because of the weapons” will still always use assault because it is the k/d centered class. The change won’t effect class choice as much as they think

[vagrant pebble]

Yes they do

It’s been datamined

Only SMGs are unique in the current selection due to one specific attachment they have

[gentle star]

Im not gonna pretend the pre-alpha state is even close to final

Have fun arguing about nothing

[fresh cliff]

Fair lol

[tropic vine]

people don't just choose things based on stats. I chose that gun because it was fun and weird, but people will choose based on what they like irl too. The KD sweats will always stick to Assault as that's why it exists now, but people who'd like to use other classes will be more likely to actually use the other classes if they don't have to choose between their fav gun and that other class

[vagrant pebble]

If gunsmithing won’t allow me to have an LMG with AR mags and AR speeds then it’s failed

[tropic vine]

I don't think it's best to go into detail, but you cannot change gun models

all this u can see for yourself, that is all

[fresh cliff]

Imma be real with you. I’ve never understood the concept of a favorite universal gun. When I play, I think based on classes. I have favorite guns within classes, but have never had a universal favorite gun nor ever wished that a gun was on a different class

I just take it as a part of the class balancing

[vagrant pebble]

Give shotties to assault and carbines or smgs to recon and it would be perfect

[fresh cliff]

Eh. Id be fine with those swaps but I feel like it degrades the mid-range specialization of assault

[tropic vine]

do u like guns irl

[fresh cliff]

Yeah. I don’t fire them often though

[obsidian scroll]

I hope this game has guns

[fresh cliff]

Sorry but you can only use swords and bows

[obsidian scroll]

Reverse psychology worked. Chivalry 3 here we come!

[tropic vine]

well that's one reason why someone would have a fav gun. People care a lot about the visuals, thinking of them as stat sticks is more of a mmo thing

[fresh cliff]

That’s fair. I have favorite guns like that within each class. I just don’t have one that I’d disregard every other class for though

Like, I love marlins/lever actions

I wouldn’t disregard other classes if only one class had marlins tho

[tropic vine]

I'm happy to have access to my favs and my fav class by default, and there's no risk of both being permanently separate. Reviving never stops being fun for me so I like it, but it really sucks when I cannot use my fav guns whatever those may be

[ancient heath]

I feel like if ars are to be the most versatile weapon choice what would incentivize people to choose the other options other than locking them or providing insignificant incentives.

[vagrant pebble]

Nothing

[tropic vine]

Locked or not, weapon types need to be balanced to a reasonable extent. There should not be a "most versatile" type. Master of none type is fine though

[vagrant pebble]

If they balance ARs to reasonable TTK then people will choose carbines or SMGs as “faster ARs”

[ancient heath]

I feel like apart of the assault class identity is the fact that they exclusively use ars

Since in this iteration atleast they seem to be exclusively anti-infantry

[mild rock]

Ah yes. Smgs my favourite assault rifle.

[tropic vine]

i feel like this situation is the BF version of the ArmaLite Rifle argument

[mild rock]

I dont understand that one sorry

[dusk ether]

I don’t follow either

Care to explain?

[obsidian scroll]

Yea this is definitely the hoopla grand tavern loop di loop experiment all wrapped up into one

[dull pier]

https://tenor.com/view/plancton-gif-4547304069248189847

[dusk ether]

I’ve been left in suspense

[obsidian scroll]

This suspense is worse than the great barrier cycle experiment of '92. Man what a shit show that was

[queen elm]

you can give AR's super large mags, but I wouild balance it out by giving them just 1 extended mag. The mag the rifles starts out wth on a match could be an extended. The moment you reload, you switch to standard capacity magazines. (typicall 30rds). That way, LMGs still have their place since they have multiple reloads of large magazines, where as an AR would have just the one.

[astral kelp]

🤔 interesting. I never thought of that

[vagrant pebble]

Extended mags are useless more often than not in BF unless you use something that’s high ROF

AR ROF isn’t high enough to warrant mag sizes more than 30-40 and reloads are typical in BF, not slow really

Extended mags will have it’s uses in LMGs and SMGs imo, due to high ROF of SMGs and due to slow reloads of LMGs

[obsidian scroll]

You guys should design videogames

[shy slate]

I guess this is why everyone uses standard and standard heavy mags, instead of standard extended, or extended heavy mags in 2042. /s

[vagrant pebble]

I will apply for a job at DICE 😛 soontm

[vagrant pebble]

Extended mags in 2042 are 40 rounders instead of 30, you don’t need more than 40 rounds in any AR really, they are in your detriment in other games too never used 50-60 round mags in CoD

[shy slate]

What BF game has extended mags that arent used by everyone?

[vagrant pebble]

BFV, people use ZK with light bolt not with extended mag

I also saw people using Turner SMLE with detachable mag rather than trench mag

[fickle fjord]

Still ain't even got an invite.

[hidden vector]

Can someone explain to me how primary weapons don't help define a class? Like if one class has SMGs and another class has snipers, they don't have the same capabilities. I'm incapable of sniping that enemy with my SMG at 100m, just like I'm incapable of placing a beacon. Is part of a Recon's job not to snipe distant enemies with their snipers? Is it not the role of the Support class to suppress enemies with their LMGs? Why isn't the primary weapon, the thing you're primarily going to be using, factored into the equation that determines what a class's role is? This is assuming that guns are locked to classes. I've seen people make the claim that gadgets determine a class's role and identity entirely, why is part of what's locked to that class ignored? Help me understand.

[gentle star]

No thanks

[wind oyster]

Because it doesnt matter

You could give supports smgs and assaults lmgs and they are still supports and assaults because of the kits they have

Theres never been a direct sort of weapons that meant “oh this is for this class”

[tropic badge]

Bla bla bla man , you lot still here. Let me tell you lot something , if 2042 never existed no one would be complaining or talking about classes.. Dice makes we play…..

Only since that thing exists that all of a sudden this is the talk of the century. But again if that was never created , no one would be questioning it!

You pick a class to define a situation , not always because of a type of gun lol , if we quickly need this or that due to a tank rolling in il quickly choose it , if need to pathfind the other end of the map for the team to flank a cap il temporarily choose recon , so yeah for the items not for the guns at times .

No real situation exists in 2042 since it’s a free for all , no one cares in that game enough to care about classes let alone squads , so stop using that bs as the primary example as the reason why it should be needed, you can’t use a disjointed mess as the reference lol. 2042 IS A TERRIBLE example to use that why should have X or Y in 6.

No one needed to change anything. The fact they did 2021 + is insane, but again no one would care if 2042 existed and they brought a game with its normal weapon class system. They’d be no talk about it , that’s a fact. Well not by the vets there wouldn’t , maybe cod clowns etc.

[wind oyster]

Still would not care if 2042 had locked restrictions and they made 6 open

[tropic badge]

Bla bla pickle a don’t give a f

The fact is this

[wind oyster]

I didnt even read what you wrote ngl i just know its hella cope with empty sentences

[tropic badge]

If 2042 didnt exist and they hadn’t changed anything no one would care

[wind oyster]

No one will care anyway

[tropic badge]

Well they clearly do lol. A tonne of player weren’t happy when 2042 came along , for several reasons

[dusk ether]

But the fact that people are actively discussing it after it’s chosen to do so means there are valid reasons for and against it

[wind oyster]

Unrestricted weapons wasnt part of the reason

[tropic badge]

I’m saying if didn’t exist and they hadn’t changed stuff no one would be questioning nor complaining

Yeah I said it was one reason

[wind oyster]

People actually liked the open weapon class and weapon + system

[tropic badge]

If you say so lol

Have to lie to convey your point. See ya

[wind oyster]

Why should you complain anyway

No one cares

It doesnt matter

[dusk ether]

If you’ve paid any attention to this channel rather than dipping whenever anyone provided a counter argument you’d know

[wind oyster]

Average tourist player

Played bf1 and then walks around with his ears covered

[vagrant pebble]

ARs for assault

[gentle star]

SMGs*

[wind oyster]

Bf3,4 had AR for assault/medic so hes technically right

And then bf5 had AR’s for assault technically

But the roles were entirely different kekw

2042 “assault” class had AR perks iirc

[gentle star]

It's just more ammo

[waxen cypress]

Ah yes the legend i pickle you is here

[wind oyster]

❤️

[hidden vector]

This didn't answer my question at all. Like, of course you could take Recon's snipers away and give them shotguns instead and they'd still be Recon...they can still place beacons and spot players. But they won't be able to snipe distant players, a role they use to have when they had snipers. Why isn't that included when talking about a class's role? Like in BFV, a large part of a Medic's role is obviously to heal and revive teammates, but that's not their entire role. They also have access to tons of smokes for pushing objectives or blocking sightlines, they have access to some of the best close-range weapons for clearing out close-quarters areas and being on the front-line, etc. Why aren't those things part of that class's role? Why is the role just limited to the special gadgets and not things like available grenades and primary weapons? This is all assuming guns are locked.

[wind oyster]

what are you arguing against

why cant they use snipers lol

and no they dont have to have a ton of smokes

and no they dont have to block sightlines

what open class system allows is for those classes to actually play more optimal in maps where maybe certain type of weapons arent very good at

meaning you in theory should have better class kit play

for example if scouts are the only class in the game with snipers, theres some more larger maps where scout is the most viable class it means that a lot more people will be picking scout and leaving other classes more untouched

or for example if its a cqc map people will pick assaults for smgs meaning you have less roles in other areas and so on

essentially restricted classes will heavily play a role in what classes become more or less used on certain maps because people are now not picking their classes based on the kits but based on primary weapons

it adds versatality to classes that are maybe much less viable otherwise

thats the entire idea behind the open class system

and even if you restrict the classes i dont think you can be very restrictive on the classes whilist having good weapon/class balance because modern weapons are extremely versetaile

a modern LMG will weigh like what at most 7kg?

a modern AR is like 2-4kg

and you can make them all more compact

so theres like real no need to actually restrict them since practically any gun is pretty much good at most ranges anyway

i dont personally care for if its open or restricted but i dont think it can be restricted in a manner that battlefield players think it should be restricted

i can only imagine a bf4 restriction system

which is like semi open anyway

[hidden vector]

My original question remains unchanged: Can someone explain to me how primary weapons don't help define a class?

Do not care about which system you like more and the reasons why. Do primary weapons help define a class, and if not, how?

[wind oyster]

i still dont understand what youre asking lol

why would a primary weapon define a class

[hidden vector]

HELP define a class

Not entirely define

[wind oyster]

an engineer kitted player will still be an engineer despite the weapon

[hidden vector]

Right over your head lol

Maybe someone else can chime in

[wind oyster]

okay but how does it define a class?

[hidden vector]

In a locked weapons system? in lots of ways

[wind oyster]

okay how

[pure zinc]

🙃

[hidden vector]

Couple examples. The class with SMGs has the role of clearing out close-quarters, rushing in, being aggressive, etc. If any class can have SMGs, they can fill that role, it's no longer exclusive to the class with SMGs. The class with snipers has the role of countersniping, taking out distant enemies that other classes can't effectively take out. If any class can have snipers, they can fill that role, it's no longer exclusive to the class with snipers, etc.

How can I snipe that enemy with my SMG, I can't, just like I can't place a beacon

Since that type of gun is exclusive to a certain class, they have abilities that other classes don't, in the exact same way that the gadgets do

[wind oyster]

you can be aggressive with any weapon and clear close quarters with an AR weapon too

or LMGS

[hidden vector]

Not disputing that

You can be aggressive with a sniper, this isn't the point tho

[shy slate]

This is the most stupid conversation lol

Just accept that the other person has an opinion that may not perfectly match yours and move on.

[wind oyster]

okay so how does that define class

[pure zinc]

Bf4 all classes had carbines 🙃

[wind oyster]

and classes already have abilities that other classes dont?

[pure zinc]

^

[hidden vector]

I can't place a spawn beacon because I am an Engineer. I also can't snipe that enemy at 100m because I don't have a sniper.

Guns have limitations, and those limitations affect a class's effective role

[pure zinc]

I dont understand the whole "Guns define class"

[wind oyster]

me neither

[hidden vector]

They don't entirely

[pure zinc]

Partly

[wind oyster]

yeah thats why open class is better

[pure zinc]

I meant

[hidden vector]

I dont care which is better or worse

[wind oyster]

.

[hidden vector]

Dont care

Do primaries if locked to classes affect the role, if not, how in the world is that possible

[wind oyster]

so you arent arguing for class restricted weapons for a gameplay element?

[hidden vector]

I'm not arguing in favor of any system right now

How do guns not help define a class's role in a locked weapon system

That's always been the only question, I dont care which system you like more or which you think is better or the reasons why, etc

[shy slate]

Guns do absolutely HELP TO DEFINE a classes EXPECTED PRIMARY ROLE. (Capitalized for clarity...as im hot saying they are the only things that do/will define it)

[hidden vector]

I've seen several people say that the gadgets define the class entirely, I don't understand that. I guess my question is directed at those people.

[shy slate]

BF games have done a good and bad job at doing this.

BF4 for example did it well, and poorly at the same time. Giving Enginners SMGs, when it would have made way more sendse for Engineers to have carbines (Or something else), and SMGs be all class.

[hidden vector]

Yeah, BF4 is a semi-locked guns system, not a true locked guns system like BF1 or BFV.

[shy slate]

I can only speak for myself, and I pick what im going to play based on the map/team need. The first thing I look at with the class im choosing to play is their gadgets, then their weapons second.

[hidden vector]

This is how I play, essentially. I select the class first, often times based on team need, then I decide what type of gun within that class I want to use.

[wind oyster]

they had both though

[hidden vector]

Occasionally I do want to use a specific gun, and I'll do that

[shy slate]

Dude, you really need to start reading things better to understand the context of whats being said.

[hidden vector]

He means that he wants SMGs to be universal, and for Carbines to be locked to Engi, I believe

[wind oyster]

idk it just doesnt really matter

[shy slate]

Yes, that would have made a lot more sense for how BF4 actually played

[wind oyster]

what difference would that really make though?

[shy slate]

Constantly looking for an argument, so im out. time for pizza

[hidden vector]

Not everyone can use the Carbines

I mean, I'm more of an all-in kind of guy for locked guns, that's BSoD's opinion about carbines/smgs

[wind oyster]

idk

then youd just have assaults that have AR's and smgs

supports with smgs

[hidden vector]

Carbines were better than SMGs, so it makes some sense that SMGs be locked

But again, I like locked guns

[wind oyster]

i dont think we can really have a bf1 type restricted system with modern guns

[hidden vector]

why not

[wind oyster]

weapons are too modern

its harder to assess different types of weapons to classes because of that

[hidden vector]

True, you could get close tho

If you lean into what each type of gun should be good at and weaken them at other things, you can have some pretty defined guns. It starts with making ARs balanced, seems like they love making them the best guns for some reason. just make them strong at medium range and weaker up close. SMGs/shotguns should be king at close range, ARs mid range, carbines are ok but nothing special at both those ranges. LMGs mid-range, etc

[wind oyster]

i cant really think of a way to make AR's weaker

you cant reduce RPM because they afaik more keen to their real life counterparts

the only other way would be by damage reduction but you cant really reduce damage heavily

you could increase spread but that would mean that people would just play smgs or lmgs isntead anyway

and if you increase spread that would just mean that AR's are cqc weapons as much as smgs are

[hidden vector]

Make damage peak at mid range

[wind oyster]

then theres also carbines that youd need to rebalance because they are very similar with AR's

[wind oyster]

this wouldnt really work either

[hidden vector]

They would be worse than SMGs up close, worse than ARs at mid-range, but decent at both ranges, carbines that is

[wind oyster]

engagement distances would become longer and that would mean that close range damage is pretty high

[hidden vector]

A middle ground

[wind oyster]

since damage drop is linear

[hidden vector]

I'll use some numbers as an example for an AR
0-10m: 20 damage
11-20m: 25 damage
21-30m: peaks at 30 damage
31+: damage starts dropping

Don't get caught up on the exact numbers/ranges, this is just an example

[wind oyster]

this is an extremely high damage figure

we have 700-800 rpm AR's

2x multiplier to the head

[hidden vector]

I literally just said dont get caught up on the exact numbers

[wind oyster]

it would also make engagement distances super restrictive

[hidden vector]

smh

[wind oyster]

i mean you have to just to understand why current weapon balance and ttk's are the way they are

[hidden vector]

Something with that sort of model would make ARs weaker at close range, stronger at mid-range, that's the goal. They'd still be solid at close range, just not as good as they are in past games. I want to avoid another scenario where ARs are king, they dont have to be

[wind oyster]

because it will extremely heavily change the course of the gameplay and pacing of the game

[hidden vector]

Hopefully ya, the ARs are nuts in most of the games

[wind oyster]

5 had an smg/medic meta

[hidden vector]

The meta is Sturm on PC

[wind oyster]

bf1 was the only game where you didnt have a strict meta but thats ww1 era weapons its much easier to asses different weapons to different weapons

[wind oyster]

sturm is the best assault weapon 100% but zk + perma heals

[hidden vector]

2nd place to the ZK/heals, Sturm is #1. You have a health pouch as Assault that you can resupply

And anti-tank/fortifications

Nutty class

It's good at everything

Anti-air

[wind oyster]

ye the issue is with having to resupply

[hidden vector]

ZK is more common on the really tight maps like Underground or maybe Al Marj, but Sturm is king just about everywhere else

[wind oyster]

thats why medic class was much more dominant

[hidden vector]

Do you mean in past games

[wind oyster]

no 5

[hidden vector]

No sir

[wind oyster]

also zk had a pretty crazy hs multiplier lol

might aswell be AR

you can be much more aggressive with a kit that doesnt mandate you to drop your pacing and timing so you can resupply

[hidden vector]

So, as Assault, the overwhelmingly taken class role was one that allowed you to automatically heal more health than any other class. So as long as you weren't hit for more than like 45 or 50, you will automatically heal up to 90+ health. If you were hit for more, then you obviously use your bandage. But you can then resupply that bandage at any medic resupply station or from a Medic themselves. Most flags have the medic resupply station. Like I said, the ZK is 2nd most used/best, but the Sturm is King. After about 2k hours in BFV, this is what I've found. And this is on PC to be clear.

[wind oyster]

and it causes a pretty clear advantage over other classes because they are limited to only 1 heal

[hidden vector]

As a gun, though, it isn't as good as the Sturm. It's used less as well. The issue of having to resupply isn't a big one, it's not hard to find health

[wind oyster]

it out ttk's sturm in closer ranges

[hidden vector]

No it does not

[wind oyster]

youre still dropping your pacing for it, while a medic player can permanently pressure

[wind oyster]

250ms ttk til 11m

and its matches sturms ttk til 20m

sturms ttk at closer ranges is 334ms

so its like what less than 120ms to the head because zk is a 2htk to the head

50 damage per headshot

[hidden vector]

It's 268ms with body shots according to sym, so 134ms with 2 headshots

[wind oyster]

Seconds to kill 0.08333333333333333 on 2x multiplier on hs

[wind oyster]

its 250

720ROF at 25 damage

[hidden vector]

Im talking about the sturm

So it's ZK 250, Sturm 268, the difference between them is quicker than those people imploding in the titan submersible. you can't even feel it. they're essentially identical

Connection is more important in that scenario than ttk

the point is, why is the sturm nearly identical in TTK to an SMG at that range lol

And then the sturm starts to whip the ZK after 20m, but the Zk doesn't have that sort of advantage at close range

You also get lightened stock with the sturm LOL. why?

[wind oyster]

oh theres 2 1-5s

but yeah medic is just a more optimal class

[hidden vector]

assault more versatile

which takes me back to the map difference. underground and al marj, oh yeah, gimme that ZK. pretty much every other map, gimme sturm

or shotgun on those two maps for that matter, if we're sweatin

i mean, we're sweatin no matter what if we have a zk/sturm

[wind oyster]

its actually crazy what they did to shotgun in that game

[hidden vector]

wdym

[wind oyster]

reload is insanely fast for a shotgun imo, you can rapid fire with no real setback

[hidden vector]

model 37 is pretty nuts, 12g right behind

[wind oyster]

yeah in a way i understand why but imo bf1 shotguns played a lot better

because the more rapidly you fired the shotgun the more the spread of the pellets increased and you couldnt do full damage shots

[light quarry]

You can balance ARs to carbines and smgs by giving them worse handing and by how much is ofc to be tested. Think things like slower ads, more sway over time, more drag when aiming(helldivers 2 implements this pretty good), having to lower your gun the closer you are to a wall corner, windowsil or going sideways through a doorway to peak. ARs are generally quite a bit bigger and heavier so it would make sense. It would give smgs a clear advantage at cqc with carbines sitting in between the two while they all keep the same damage and ttk at close range. There will be friction initially ofc bc people dont like it when a gun feels sluggish but when balanced right you hardly notice it when aiming at things further away and people get used to it. It allso allows really good people so still use ARs somewhat effectively at closer range bc you can learn to compensate for it to an extent. This would probably also mean dice would have to make the bullets come out of the actual barrel of your gun and not out of your forehead like it currently is(fixing headglitching in the process too)

[pure zinc]

Might as well just play a milsim at this point 💀

[light quarry]

Im just giving a a way to balance ARs, besides we dont have to approach millsim lvls of sluggish

Actually bro nah what you talking about. Bf would still be arcade af compared to a milsim with this implemented

Is helldivers a milsim to you?

[wind oyster]

idk modern AR's are just 2-4kg

my R-20 service rifle was like just under 3kg

so idk

imo its easier to just buff smgs without nerfing AR's to hell

idk i dont really care tbh i just hope its a shooter game

[light quarry]

If something is longer its just harder to swing around even if its the same weight as something shorter, thats just physics. ARs these days might be relatively light but its still going to be heavier than shorter guns.

[wind oyster]

shortened stock AR's arent very long

[shy slate]

https://tenor.com/view/knocking-head-stupid-gif-22346679

[light quarry]

[white temple]

Would be nice for bf labs to show actual stats instead of a bar

Such as damage: 34dpshot

[median geode]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/359171603797639170/1341910917209784320/ofyx6vv6n0ke1.gif

[pure zinc]

👀

[dusk ether]

No but it would feel painful trying to play with that much drag

I know balance for ARs to make them not as strong is tough but there aught to be other methods

[shy slate]

You just make other weapons behave differently, so they perform better in their intended ranges. Aka, much faster ads, sprint to ads speed on smgs.

You don't need to make ARs weak, you need to make other weapon categories strong in their expected ranges/combat types.

[light quarry]

I agree with that playing bf with as much drag as some guns in helldivers would be painfull, thats why i said that the amount would have to be tested so it wont feel absolutely terrible but still make a big enough difference. I'd love to test it out for myself, i think it would be fun.

[wind oyster]

Ads times are fast anyway, if you increase sprint to ads people will just cry over it

[shy slate]

It's just an example of easy ways you can balance and differentiate weapon classes.

Another would be letting smgs have much better hip fire accuracy.

[wind oyster]

Im also going to predict that hipfire of smgs already is pretty strong as is aswell because of the past 3 games

Its not very easy to balance something by just making it outright much better or something very debuffed

[shy slate]

I'm not terribly worried about how they will differentiate the different weapon classes.

I'm more curious about how relevant they make the signature weapons.

[wind oyster]

Wont it be the same thing where certain classes get perks for their signsture weps? Like in 2042

If yes then likely wont impact the game much

[shy slate]

There is no real info about signatures, outside of an old game version leak and one example given in the BLOG.

Thankfully they are building this system from the base up. Instead of trying to shoehorn it into the game, as was the case with 2042 weapon perks.

I'd love for them to make the recon bolt action signature be headshots denying a revive

[stone tundra]

they already do from field upgrades unless they got changed again

[shy slate]

Yeah but that peek needs to be earned. With makes player understanding of the perk and it's triggering seem confusing and inconsistent. Both for the shooter and the target.

[wind oyster]

Would be cancerous

[shy slate]

Failing making it the signature, I'd like for them to have infinite steady scope, with no need for breath hold the signature. But then add the headshot revive denial as lvl1 perk in a marksman sub class.

[gentle star]

Would make snipers and actual threat

[wind oyster]

They are an actual threat anyway

[shy slate]

Yes, and it worked perfectly fine in BFV

[gentle star]

lol

[shy slate]

Snipers/bolt actions are not a threat in any BF game after BC2.

[wind oyster]

?

What

[gentle star]

Only time they have been is when they had sweet spot damage

[shy slate]

Bro don't even start. 99.99% of the player base are absolutely trash with bolt actions.

Most don't even bother using them

[wind oyster]

?

Why does that matter

[shy slate]

Because you said they are a threat. They aren't as 99.99% of players are not capable of using them effectively. Additionally, there is no real reward for being a marksman and getting headshots, which the denial of revive would bring to the table. As a result it may entice more players to use, learn and get better with them.

[wind oyster]

You can deny so many positions with scouts, without really being able to fight them, the dps they input is insanely high + hs kills

Its 100% a strong weapon class lol

[shy slate]

Means nothing when considering the reality of how BF is played.

[wind oyster]

? Thats literally how scout is played

[shy slate]

Doing high damage and having high per shot damage potential, and being effective/strong are not the same things.

[wind oyster]

Ofc its effective

Youre denying options for the enemies which your team can use, your team can kill enemies far faster meaning your teammates are more less likely to die

[shy slate]

I'm not even going to start this with you, cos you will argue that a blue wall is red.

[wind oyster]

The faster you can kill and the more you can pressure enemies down the faster you can get on objectives

[shy slate]

You're also completely losing sight of the original context...that being giving recon a strong signature and subclass for marksmanship

No tangents here please

[wind oyster]

?

[shy slate]

?

[wind oyster]

.

[shy slate]

Yes, a correct statement

[wind oyster]

Yikes

[shy slate]

Let's look at pickles stats and see how many bolt action kills across all BF games. Then compare them to an actual threat in combat, like ARs, SMGs and LMGSLs.

[waxen cypress]

Good snipers (wink wink) in BF 1 made a lot of useful kills but yes they'll never have high kdr, thank god the kdr is not the achievement in this game

[shy slate]

Because of sweet spot mechanics allowing 1 shot body kills.

[mild rock]

Wait sorry do you mean the cut 5v5 perk cause that wasn't properly implemented into bf5.

Or were you messing about.

[waxen cypress]

You said after bc 2

[wind oyster]

Lol

1895 russian sniper is within my top 5 weapons

[waxen cypress]

Is my top 1 for kills

Lol

[wind oyster]

At 3kpm i mind you

Smle is within my top 10

[shy slate]

Yes, bolt actions were the most effective by far in BC2 over any BF game past it. They were still not crazy effective in bf1, just moreso than in other "modern" BF games. And even then it was through 2 artificial means. 1 being the era that game is set in (large quantities of the medium/long range weapons being single or semi auto) , and the other being a game design element (sweet spot ) designed to make them stronger

[waxen cypress]

Martini Henry in my top 5 too

[wind oyster]

Yikes

[shy slate]

Yikes for saying the truth?

[wind oyster]

And this is your anecdotal opinion based on your own experience?

[shy slate]

Show me your bolt action stats outside of Bf1?

[waxen cypress]

I disagree on this. It depends what you consider effective. Absolute number of kills or what? If I dont let you near my flag with my sniper am I effective?

[wind oyster]

I can farm up some scout kills np

It doesnt matter much

[shy slate]

No, I said show me your actual stats as of right now. Because if bolt actions are as deadly and effective as you say surely you must have 1000s of kills with them?

[waxen cypress]

Bolts in BF 5 were great too you could two-shot people easily

So the answer to my question was "absolute number of kills"

[wind oyster]

I just dont find scout gameplay interesting

https://youtube.com/shorts/P7_oNv6G_i0?si=CrycVDIaQbnmHwNI

My friends clips

Ineffective etc

[shy slate]

I'm good, I don't need to see your friends clips. I wanted to see your stats, to back up your opinion that bolt actions are deadly and effective.

I've not once said Bolt actions can't be effective, I've said that they aren't in 99% of players hands.

This was also started as a discussion of possible recon class weapon signatures/sub class perks. Which was derailed on this tangent.

[wind oyster]

?

[shy slate]

Can't you follow along or read?

[wind oyster]

.

[dull pier]

oh god not this again

[shy slate]

Yes, they aren't. As 99% of the playerbase is not effective with them. How are you not getting this?

[wind oyster]

Player effectiveness doesnt = weak weapon class

[shy slate]

They were in BC2, as HC was the default mode, and every bolt action was a 1 shot to the legs or body

[dull pier]

https://tenor.com/view/plancton-gif-4547304069248189847

[waxen cypress]

I have over 1k

[shy slate]

And how can anyone say that weapon effectiveness and player ability with that weapon isn't a factor. Of only under 1% of players are capable of using bolt actions effectively, then that weapon class is something I do not consider effective, or a threat when playing.

Bolt action rifles don't fire themselves afterall. They are only as useful as the player shooting them. Which 99% of the time is not a competent rifle player/user.

[wind oyster]

You cant base a weapon classes potential on bad players lol

[shy slate]

I sure can

[wind oyster]

Yikes

You really cant lol

[shy slate]

I sure can

[wind oyster]

They underutilize every kit and every weapon in the game

[shy slate]

I'll remember this comvo for when you use player skill as a reason to, or not to do something in future tho.

[wind oyster]

?

I mean man look at it this way

[dull pier]

my brains fried, fuck this lol

[wind oyster]

Lets say like idk for example overwatch tracer or whatever, a bad player playing it doesnt really = the character being bad

So you cant base that the character is bad because of the performance of that player

Skill 100% matters lol

[shy slate]

You're distorting what I am saying.

I am saying that bolt actions aren't a threat because 99% of players are not capable of using them effectively

[wind oyster]

But you said they were ineffective and havent been strong since bf2?

Based on what

Those same bad players?

Meaning youre basing the weapon potential on what those bad players can do?

[shy slate]

Yes, they were far more effective in BC2 as any player can 1 shot to anywhere with any of the rifles. This made them significantly easier to use, which made the average player far more powerful, irrespective of skill.

[wind oyster]

I mean yeah thats 100% much stronger but it doesnt really outright make current snipers ineffective lol

[shy slate]

It makes them massively less effective.

Especially for the 99% of players who otherwise are terrible with them.

[wind oyster]

Why are you still basing weapon effectiveness around bad players lol

You shouldnt also build mechanics around those bad players

Like a headshot making it impossible to revive you would be unbearable

[shy slate]

Because weapon effectiveness x player skill is how I define the threat of a weapon class.

[wind oyster]

Thats an insanely strong mechanic

[shy slate]

Would sure make use of bolt actions on recon a worthwhile choice. Amirite

[wind oyster]

Im more of a threat on pieper than you are on smg 08 likely does that mean that smg 08 is a less deadly gun than pieper now?

Like what

[shy slate]

No, because I won't be fighting you often.

[wind oyster]

Why does that matter

[shy slate]

You actual don't get what I'm saying at all

So never mind, you are right. Cya

[wind oyster]

? Lol

[light quarry]

pieper picked a pepper

anyway i think BSoD is trying to say that (most) people playing the sniper class arent a threat, not persay that the class itself is bad but that it could use some sort of buff so its more effective in the hands of more people

[dusk ether]

I’ve always wanted a means to dissuade people from just sitting 200m back somehow

[shy slate]

While at the same time making bolt actions more powerful in the hands of a recon class player. Which was the actual topic, before it got railroaded into an argument

[dusk ether]

But then again I never do anyways so that incentive would just be to try and get others to play how I do I guess

[shy slate]

Sweetspot did this. But it was largely hated.

[mild rock]

Sweetspot was not good.

[dusk ether]

Yeah I got the reasoning behind it when it became a thing

But of course it just felt like random instakills

[mild rock]

I think other incentives like a guaranteed kill to the head is a good idea.

But truth be told it's annoying but it doesn't bother me a whole lot.

[shy slate]

IMO, it's fine that bolt actions exist as they do now. They could be improved by having a heavy bullet damage affect. Aka, getting hit with a bolt action shot would FEEL harder, and make you unable to regen health for much longer than normal.

[dusk ether]

I was thinking just more bullet drop and less speed

[mild rock]

Messing with health regen no.

[shy slate]

That's a major part of the next game anyway, so no harm in making it a mechanic of bolt action use.

[mild rock]

It's due to change and messing with health regen with a chest shot will just be annoying as fuck.

I understand WHY but shooting the hcest just means you cheaped out.

If the health regen isn't as intense then sure, I wouldn't mind it so much.

[shy slate]

Giving bolt actions utility outside of just one shot headshots is necessary imo.

Keeping it as it is/has been, only further keeps bolt action utility with the 1% of 1% of players.

[mild rock]

I agree sure but I don't think mitigating regen for shooting the chest should be enforced.

[gentle star]

The ammo types that have leaked will probably fill that role

[shy slate]

I'd prefer that be removed from bullet types available to weapons tbh.

My head canon logic for a bolt action doing it when used by a recon is them being a marksman, and hitting vital organs.

[wind oyster]

Its already good lol

[gentle star]

Recon as a class is good

snipers as a gun category is less so

[wind oyster]

People should really stop searching for aids from mechanics because they are bad at the game

Lets stop the cope

What scout class is is either confirm kills on low health targets, or lower peoples healths

Which you can do perfectly fine

~60-70 damage to the body is a very large sum of damage lol

[shy slate]

Imagine wanting video games to have mechanics based in reality.

You don't need to force your opinion on everyone, or laugh at the ideas of others

[wind oyster]

You can obviously get more kills with fully automatic rifles and so on so forth and kits allow them to play for more kills

But snipers are just purely an aiding class of weapons

[wind oyster]

What reality lol

[shy slate]

The reality that a marksman would better be able to shoot a target for maximum damage/affect.

[wind oyster]

I didnt ask for that

[shy slate]

OK cool

[wind oyster]

Thats like the worst thing you could want from scout gameplay

[shy slate]

👍

[onyx hornet]

The whole idea of the class system is to have certain things that benefit a certain playstyle over other classes, recon is a perfect example, once we start trying to make them all the same what's the point of the class system in the first place, personally I like having classes specialized in certain weapons and having a kit unique to that class, imo bf1 does a lot of this pretty good already, same with bc2.

[thin bloom]

🙄 I'm not happy that we haven't seen thermal sights yet at this point in the pre-alpha phase, as they're a fundamental part of the arsenal, especially for better calibrating the game's performance, since using them consumes more resources.
Do you think we'll have them at launch?

[dusk ether]

Hope not

[thin bloom]

Don't you want to see thermal sights? Incredible... they are very fun and useful accessories in the game and have been in every BF.

[dusk ether]

I’m all for better visibility but thermals are a little too good for that

And thank god they stopped letting them see through smokes

That’s one good thing

[thin bloom]

I love them, and the more variety the better, thermal, infrared, etc. BF3 was great because of its enormous variety, it had everything in general, BF6 should be the same, and we should demand the most from the developers.

[mild rock]

Yeah no thermals unless some sort of limiting factor.

[shy slate]

80/100 points to use thermals. 👍

[dusk ether]

I’d argue that if that variety breaks the experience it shouldn’t be considered

Thermals don’t necessarily break the game down but I just don’t like them too much, but just in general that is

[steep cloak]

Why not having lock weapon / class this way :

• Recon
  -> long distance scoot : bolt action
  -> short range scoot : smg

Support
-> support / cover role : lmg
-> close combat revive : smg

Engineer
-> urban combat : carabine
-> open area maps vehicles / mid distance : dmr

Assault
-> anti infanterie open area : AR
-> anti infanterie Close quarter : shotgun

It will counter the most seen complaints :

• non lock weapons (obviously)
• assault being able to carry a bolt action / dmr for long distance and a smg for short distance at the same time, being able to handle pretty much any kind of fight against any infanterie class
• sniper with unlimited amo + health at long range

It gives the spirit of battlefield with the new changes :

• each class has 2 kind of range / gameplay but keep their signature weapons
• assault remains the anti infanterie class with most versatile weapons : the ar
• It is still a lock class weapon system but more permissive than bf1 / bf5
• the weapon upgrade still affect 1 of the 2 categories each class can us

[gentle star]

No

[dusk ether]

Tempted to follow suit and list my own class structure but what’s the point

[shy slate]

Lots of class ideas could work for sure. There are hundreds of possibilities. I kinda want to see fully fleshed out class signatures and subclass perks before asking for much tho.

[steep cloak]

Am I late and everyone agrees with non lock class weapons ?

[dusk ether]

It’s mixed

Plenty of reasons for both sides

[steep cloak]

Fair enough

[shy slate]

I would say the majority don't want unlocked weapons. But some of those people only don't due to 2042, and them not wanting another failed game (understandable)

I sit in the middle, as do many.

Some want unlocked weapons for selfish reasons. Other want them as they liked unlocked in 2042, and understand that the failings of that game don't relate to the weapons being unlocked.

It's probably something like this

• Want locked (prefer games like bf3/4/1) : 35%
• Want locked (2042 trauma ) : 15%
• Don't mind locked or unlocked : 30%
• Want unlocked : 20%

[dusk ether]

sounds about right

the ones who don't mind unlocked will be the ones keeping quiet and getting mass downvoted

but the discussions we've have made it clear it's got a lot to it

[steep cloak]

Isn't part of 2042 failing ? Having unlock weapon is equivalent to 2042 class system right now isn't it ? 🧐

I mean there are other reasons sure, but I thought non lock weapons as also something to do with the complains about "non battlefield gameplay" from bf2042

[dusk ether]

while I do feel the greatest flaw of 2042 was it's prioritisation of sandbox over restriction, weapons don't have as much of an impact in the grand scheme of things

I’m still for weapon restrictions personally though

[shy slate]

Launch 2042 had unlocked weapons AND gadgets. That's why it sucked. The class system they reintroduced was a half measure, and the specialists themselves only compound that issue.

It's still my opinion that the unlocked weapons in 2042 aren't an issue. But I'm fine with the next game doing whatever they have planned.

[dusk ether]

And vehicles basically being unlocked too

that was such an irritating phase

[shy slate]

Yeah, Vehicles being unlocked and 90% of maps having all of them always available.

[mild rock]

Class perks and upgrade trees should push for people using the gun

Also

[dusk ether]

Who thought putting the aa vehicle in the same slot as tanks, and letting them not run aa weapons, was good

[mild rock]

I did see a bf4 system in the new battlefield

Vehicle

[dusk ether]

Boggles the mind

[shy slate]

It was like brain rot design. Give all vehicles seats with guns, explosives and grenades. Don't give your players a single second of silence ever.

[dusk ether]

And the damn transport aircraft

My word

[shy slate]

Most of the vehicles including transports having 30mm and 50mm explosive cannons was a joke.

[dusk ether]

That weapons overhaul was easily one of the most refreshing updates

[shy slate]

Yeah

[dusk ether]

And the one that removed the top gear intro sequences

[steep cloak]

Agree or disagree with lock weapon system, there is at least something everyone agrees about 2042...

[shy slate]

Member the first 2 years where you were forced to spawn at start of a match?

[dusk ether]

utter pain

without a word of a lie it baffles me, some of these decisions

[shy slate]

Not done picking your loadout? Too bad.

[dusk ether]

don't want to go all negative nancy but stuff like start of match spawning, scoreboards, vehicle type and loadouts all being messed up seems like such a rookie error

[steep cloak]

Best moment of the game : jet crashing into the enemie spawn, what a time to be alive

[shy slate]

They should have also disallowed vehicle callins within sectors you don't own.

That would have given more depth to sector capture/defence

And you wouldn't be able to call in a tank on an enemy owned flag. Which is just terrible

[dusk ether]

that would have been nice

I do really want to see how the aircraft feel in the next game

getting bad memories from 2042 and I am just curious whether i'll have to start another campaign to get previously included features back

[shy slate]

I just want air vehicle gameplay to not be 90% lock on or radar missile BS.

Ww1/2 BF air gameplay is so much more enjoyable for lacking lock ons imo.

[mild rock]

Not gonna lie it's weird seeing you so non chalant over 2042 during pre release (lack for good words )and now you genuinely dislike it.

[shy slate]

All of my good memories from 2042 come from playing with friends, not the game itself. Those same things would have been happening had we played any BF game. Solo play in 2042 is still a nightmare.

[brazen rock]

Are we gona be able to preorder mid June with reveal trailer

[void vessel]

Could be as late as Gamescom which is late August

Probably gonna be an independent announcement though

[shy slate]

https://tenor.com/view/robin-hood-fortune-teller-future-prediction-gif-25704815

[brazen rock]

I cant wait no more

[brazen rock]

What did you see is it working

[shy slate]

It just said "ask again later"

[boreal harbor]

What does “non battlefield gameplay” even mean?

AFAIK and still experience when I hop on 2042, still experience BF gameplay and BF moments

[shy slate]

It's anything that wasn't seen in BF 3, 4, 1 or V.

[boreal harbor]

Is it as good as or memorable as 2/BC2/3/V? no but it’s still there and I’d attribute most of that to an incoherent base level design that they’ve had to reverse engineer to get into its current state and bad map design (outside a few standouts)

[shy slate]

2042 will always be remembered as a stain on the franchise. Regardless of how any of us view it's current state.

It's a good lesson in what not to do tho. So valuable in that respect.

[boreal harbor]

The classes still work after they restricted the gadgets to classes.

Whether I use an m5a3, ac9, svk etc my role within the team is still tied to my class kit.

If I pick

Zain: I’m a frontlines/flank buster
Falck: team medic
Lis: anti vehicle and repairs
Blasco: intel, counter intel and setting up spawn beacon flanks

[boreal harbor]

All the hardline hate has turned into “should’ve appreciated it more” sentiment by many

[shy slate]

Na, people still don't like Hardline. I've not seen that at all enmasse

[boreal harbor]

Not saying people will remember 2042 as a total package fondly but all but the biggest doomers after a while will be “hmmm it ended up not that bad”

[shy slate]

I'll remember 2042 as the game that released broken, had us content starved, but was a solid 6/10 shooter.

[boreal harbor]

Sounds like the same as BF4 first 12 months lmao

[shy slate]

I'll never return to it again tho, once the new game releases

[boreal harbor]

Except the content starvation, you just couldn’t reliably play the new content cuz the servers were so dog shit

[boreal harbor]

Agree, even if I wanted to tho I doubt the servers will have anyone to fill a match

Need dice to officially announce this new BF so the player counts jump back up til the next one releases. Too many bots in matches lately

[shy slate]

Will probably not achieve anything as long as the social services remain broken, paired with the issues casual, non experienced pc players are having with the anti cheat

[boreal harbor]

Let a man hope

[shy slate]

I tried playing 2042 with a friend on Sunday. He booted > secure boot warning > solve that > random driver incompatible > both of us said F this and played the finals instead.

[daring blade]

I agree. I used to think weapon class had to be an essential part of class identity because in the early games, it did! But recent entries have been adding new abilities & gadgets to the classes, culminating in what 2042 has. Now I actually prefer this, seeing the classes rely on gadgets and abilities. At the end of the day, a gun is a gun.

I mostly stick with the recommended class weapons anyway, and I just haven't seen any major issues while playing caused by unlocked weapon classes. I've been having tons of fun. Most of the arguments I've seen against unlocked weapons are purely hypothetical and unrealistic, e.g. "You could have a whole team using sniper rifles." A) You can have that with locked classes, too. B) I have never seen anything close to this actually happen in a real game.

Additionally, I assume they are going to keep adding the things that incentive players to grind particular weapons. I hate this, but let's just assume it will be in the next game again. I like being able to do the grind without feeling stuck using a class that's not what my squad and team really need at the moment.

[ancient heath]

Supports shouldn’t use snipers thou lol

[vagrant pebble]

Assaults shouldn’t use SMGs though

[ancient heath]

Literally nobody complained that they were locked in the same way people absolutely lambasted it when they were unlocked in 2042 like lol why fix what’s not broken I don’t get it.

[gentle star]

No one should use guns

[boreal harbor]

People have been talking about unlocked weapons since BF3.

DICE has stated how it was broken in their own eyes. Their data suggests people don’t play the classes, they just play whatever allows them to use their favorite gun within a locked system

[boreal harbor]

It’s always the support with a sniper boogieman

[vagrant pebble]

Make love, not war

Battlefield dating sim

[shy slate]

Lovely rewriting of history here. There has been discussion of locked weapons across every BF game I can remember.

[gentle star]

Locked weapons is one of the reasons i only played Noshahr tdm only on bf3

[vagrant pebble]

He's right, no one asked DICE to unlock weapons

No one said ''why weapons aren't unlocked in this class based shooter'' before 😂

[shy slate]

They 100% did say "Why cant a recon use ARs" tho. So they are still factually incorrect

😂

[boreal harbor]

Ya no one was, DICE added universal weapons in BF4 because people definitely weren’t asking for more weapon freedom

[shy slate]

Weapon freedom is just a staple of modern combat BF games. Been this way since BF4 guys! Stop questioning it. This is just an evolution of BF4!!!!!

[boreal harbor]

BF1’s extreme restriction had nothing to do with its setting… nothing

[gloomy kite]

Class-restricted weapons:
Faction-restricted weapons:

[fresh cliff]

We need to return to HL’s system

[vagrant pebble]

BF Vietnam*

[gray nimbus]

Is dice going to fix this game or are they determined to give this command and conquer generals 2 treatment ?

[dusk ether]

No idea what that treatment is but labs is all about constant iteration so stuff will change over time

[gray nimbus]

It’s called the “try to have your cake and eat it too but when you can’t do that you throw the franchise away and find another scheme to have your cake and eat it too.”

[dull pier]

yeah i remember that totally lol

im sure someone mentioned it

[shy slate]

Its been a common thing across all BF games with locked/semi-locked weapons.

[dull pier]

uh huh

[dull pier]

halo, you spawn with the same gun

you need to find one at a little Hologram to upgrade

and if u die someone else can have it

[shy slate]

People try to force a logic aspect when it comes to locked weapons . AKA.."It makes sense for X class to use Y weapons"

When in reality it does not make logical sense at all for most of the weapon classes. For example it doesnt make logical, realistic sense why a recon, Engineer or Support couldnt use AMGs, ARs, ETC.

The only weapons that do have some logical sense behind class restrictions are Bolt actions and LMGs.

[dull pier]

EA will probably do this if BF6 fails

[tropic badge]

Bro listen to me , if 2042 didn’t exist you wouldn’t even be questioning it. You know as well as I do new devs , new team took over , they started changing and dismantling unnecessarily, that’s it , the end , bottom line and all we’re saying is - please don’t change those aspects , I don’t care for x reason or y , just leave the structure alone

THE END

[shy slate]

Bro go away. lol

THE END 🤣

The next game is simply an evolution of the open weapon systems from BF4. 🐧

FIN

[gentle star]

If Dice never changed anything Battlefield wouldn't exist anymore

[steep cloak]

I personally hate the bf4 weapon system, it is too open
I prefer the bf3 open weapon system : have close quarter open weapon, but in open map situation you still need to use your class weapon

I agree with you : I don't understand why people ask for lock weapons but ask the bf4 system in the same time, the most open weapon system of any classic bf game...

[shy slate]

Im open to whatever they decide on. For me, it wont greatly affect my enjoyment or playtime

I played BF4, liked BF4. Played BF1, Liked BF1. So all good from me.

"Its the way it always has been" is a terrible reasoning for doing, or not doing something. Every BF game has had different class system make up. So no, its hasn't ALWAYS been a certain way.

[pure zinc]

Its not that deep 💀

[daring blade]

I completely agree with BSoD on all points.

[dusk ether]

[wispy carbon]

Any changes that upset the dogshit reddit community is a welcome change in my eyes 🙂

[light quarry]

so you'd be okay with pay to win gun unlocks? lootboxes? bunch of flashy skins?

[wispy carbon]

Hell yeah sign me up, nicki minaj skins and slide cancelling too

[light quarry]

[pure zinc]

[soft star]

Omni movement when?

[light quarry]

minecraft creative flying, fortnkife building

[dusk ether]

Titanfall jump kit when

[minor yew]

reveal trailer ... when?

[dusk ether]

Nevaaarr

[dusk ether]

To appease the masses, what would you think about giving the assault a med box as a class gadget instead

[steep onyx]

No

If you want to keep class identity, then you'd at least lock some gadgets for certain classes

I personally have no issue with it, but people will riot

See: 2042

Since imo, open weapon class is the way to go

[dusk ether]

The idea being that assault becomes the medic and the support just for ammo

[steep onyx]

That's literally just bf4

[dusk ether]

Yup

It works great for the playstyle, and having it be a box instead of a pouch moves the frontline up with them

[steep onyx]

I mean

If you like playing medic/assault yeah

If you like playing support not as much

Either way, if we are going open weapons, the identity of the class is just gonna be their gadget pairing

So in the end it's just gonna be which class can have the most stupid damage dealing gadget being spammed all over the place

Or just infinite self heal

[dusk ether]

That is definitely one of my worries I will admit

[steep onyx]

I mean

It's been this all the time anyways

When weapons are locked

People play whichever class that have the most broken weapon + ability pair

Without actually doing the work they supposed to do

With open weapon class at least some of us can have some degree of freedom of weapon choice

For example I like rushing with snipers, but with restricted weapon class, recom class is just dressing you up to camp

Of which imo 2042 opening up weapons is good

(Tbf I am the few people that had no issue with open gadget so what do I know)

[dusk ether]

Since class will always be the conscious choice as opposed to just being the accompanying class for the weapon (for those who pick based off weapon first) it should ideally have people recognising the class they’ve chosen and actually play it

[steep onyx]

Not a chance in this world lmao

We would all wish

But realistically not gonna happen

[dusk ether]

In theory….
Theoretical theory lol

I always pick class first anyways so it’s less important for me, but being able to play classes with other weapons was so fun

[steep onyx]

People all say "previous bf did blah blah blah right" where imo, in the end most people play all bf the same

Pick the most stupid weapon, pick the most stupid gadget

And go kill people

It's all just meta loadout anyways

For me I pick medic/engi and then I think about gun choices

In which case it has worked decently well for me in the last few installments of the game

So

[dusk ether]

It’s a tough discussion in my opinion

In any situation I can think of equal points for and against restrictions to where I can’t even make my mind up

[steep onyx]

For me I don't really care

We will all figure out a way to play around jt

Whether we get restrictions or not

And people will invariably complain

As long as sniper/marksman are not recon only I'm whatever

[dusk ether]

‘Reddit, finds a way’

Must be tough being a dev where no matter what you do there will be people against it

[steep onyx]

Yeah

[obsidian scroll]

They should find the BF with the most sales, replicate that and call it a day. You aren't going to make everyone happy.

[shy slate]

Which would be BF1. But its mechanics wouldnt translate all that well to a modern setting

[clever yacht]

it would work because the majority is the casuals and because of them the game lives

[boreal harbor]

He’s saying a ton of BF1s mechanics were born from the restrictions the WW1 setting imposed on developing the game… which don’t translate to combat in a modern setting

[shy slate]

Bf1 mechanics wouldn't work with high dps long ranged automatic rifles, tanks with APS, helicopters or jets with jdams and lockons.

[pure zinc]

https://youtu.be/zMTtOYeWYRc?si=o0nwB6RTGIQjdBIe

This video perfectly illustrates how delusional the battlefield fanbase is, thank you for uploading it @wispy parrot 🙏

[wispy parrot]

😂

[wispy parrot]

💯

[tropic badge]

Erm what else

[shy slate]

Lol

[pure zinc]

Its not that deep

[tropic vine]

imagine being so mad but also being so wrong

[shy slate]

DW, I've learned your opinions are to be ignored...as you ignore all others and put opposing ideas to yours down to "You only play 2042", or "go back to playing 2042...".

Maybe one day you'll take off the blinkers, lose the tunnel vision and become open to ideas not built of someone elses opinion, or rooted in the past. 🫡

[tropic badge]

Not mad anymore bro , worse things to be not fine about , I know I get it , horrible things occurring in the world , it rests and sits heavy on our shoulders

Just was hyped about that cinematic they show 2 months ago and the words “back to roots”

No it’s not that BSoD , someone mentioned Reddit being the issue , that was all. I didn’t want to see reply becuase I don’t want to create another argument with people that are practically living here. Also open to opinions but also know what works and what use to

Didn’t get as flamed as I thought…. Yet

[tropic vine]

back to roots doesn't mean exact 1-1 copy, as everything changes over time. What matters is if the core gameplay flows the same or similar, which none of us will know until probably the beta

[tropic badge]

I don’t necessarily want 1:1 copy it’s what doesn’t have to be changed necessarily

True enough, though.
is what it is now

[tropic vine]

i expect we'll get at least 2 open tests, which should reveal the gameplay flow after a few hours

[shy slate]

Break your NDA speedtest

It is not

Read your emails

[tropic badge]

Fair play , didn’t know that , seen others mention it was all.

[tropic vine]

never trust others

[minor yew]

guess BF6 is some kind of urban legend

[dusk ether]

Thank for the read

I just had a jab at Reddit users always finding ways to complain and get all that

Glad you are so passionate about the topic 👍

I love the very subtle sarcasm

[tropic vine]

I lowkey wanna play with the biggest reddit whiner at launch

[carmine hornet]

Why cause yourself more anxiety by interacting with trolls?

[dull pier]

gonna be honest this entire channel is just sad

[carmine hornet]

Just pick the gems from the manure and wash hands after. Bad actors doesn't stick with me

[dull pier]

by the time your done sanding the shit off there'd be no gem lol

[carmine hornet]

Mentally ignoring comments that don't add value to me is state of mind I guess.

[tropic badge]

Yeah sure thing. Anyone that wishes to voice their own concerns must be a troll.

I wasn’t talking or had mentioned anything about hardcore mode , either play it or don’t never bothered me , so I don’t know why you’re referencing me as a troll

People said reddit was a bad place , I just simply re outlined what a majority of vets are concerning about on there , that was all (now deleted)

Last I knew this channel was created to voice concerns regarding class designs , but anyone that does is a troll or a Reddit troll? All accept you lot have essentially taken over it , practically live here and rage bait anyone that “don’t belong here” that makes a comment.

[shy slate]

Youve spent the last 2/3 weeks calling anyone not 100% wanting class locked weapons children, 2042 fanboys and clowns. Id advise getting off your high horse. If you want to preach freedom of opinion, allow others to express theirs without being attacked by you

Source:
#community-update-classes message

#community-update-classes message

#community-update-classes message

#community-update-classes message

The worst of your comments in this respect were deleted, and you were muted for a week...so those are unable to be shared above

[gentle star]

[boreal harbor]

Had the receipts printed out like Mapquest directions

[lucid river]

You just unlocked a core memory for me holy fuck

I legit had to print those out for my dad before our trips when I was like 8 lmfao

[boreal harbor]

Then he yells at you because he didn’t get to the right lane 2 miles ago even though you 100% called out the exit coming up

[shy slate]

Less receipts, more just searched their name and the term "2042". theyve also tagged and referenced ME as a 2042 fanboy over the same period...when nothing could be further from the truth

[obsidian scroll]

You guys are getting too dramatic over a videogame man 😂 especially one YOU aren't designing yourself and putting the work into.

[dusk ether]

Except the literal purpose of this chat is to give ideas to shape the game

[obsidian scroll]

Giving ideas and discussions are different than immature hurls of arguments lmao

[shy slate]

90% of us are just talking about ideas.

[dusk ether]

Fortunately the majority of discussions here are civil, it’s just this guy being a nonsensical nuisance

[obsidian scroll]

Yes I know, there's a select few

[lucid river]

Lmfao holy shit too accurate

[void vessel]

Guys I think they should add superheroes to the next battlefield game

[carmine hornet]

Disappointment and opinions aren't wrong. I want talking about criticism in constructive ways. Like I hate hardcore. But I don't toot softcore horn and rant how it's wrong to want hardcore because it never worked in BF (comment I see at times).

I think we need cowboys and Indians Battlefield next. Just good old 1800 gunslingers versus the East India Company.

[red bay]

I would like to have weapons locked to classes, and no specialists, that would be fine imo. And would allow for easier changes to balance vs. every class having all guns available, which is a nightmare to balance

[void vessel]

We need battlefield primal

[carmine hornet]

Limited time Dino Hunt would probably be a bad idea.

[fresh cliff]

I don't really understand why some people hate Hardcore so much. I understand not liking it and not playing it, but saying that it shouldn't exist is just weird

[dusk ether]

Because the people who don’t like hardcore don’t want the next game to take any inspiration from it, and want to claim it shouldn’t exist so that the game sticks to their preferred style

[fresh cliff]

Idk what inspiration you could even take from HC besides for higher TTK. Everything else is just visual changes that they 100% would not implement into the normal game like removing killcam and 3rd person in vehicles

[carmine hornet]

Agreed. I dislike it in part because it's not something I have good experience on, because in BF generally I feel, it's been an afterthought and never implemented well, in any capacity. Other part is, I'm a softie heh. Game by default is hardcore enough. I've played a few Arma early versions and clones, just not my thing. Battlefield's always been between casual and simulation in the best way.

I did like BF 1 Standard Issue Rifles (think thats what it was called) which limited you to infantry singleshot rifles of the nations. Not quite HC, still diffent and more WWI esque.

[mighty zealot]

Are we still arguing about unlocked weapons? Or did we move onto the next controversy about movement ?

[fresh cliff]

HC isn't even really a Harder version of BF imo

It's just some tweaked settings to make it slightly slower in some areas and faster in others

[fresh cliff]

50/50

This channel sees more of the unlocked weapons talk tho

[carmine hornet]

I think the movement will be the same for everyone. Just a guess.

[fresh cliff]

Eh. Movement is very different depending on what you play on. Even with the same mechanics, PC can use movement much easier than Console due to input differences

(This is why I think Crossplay should be heavily limited or completely removed)

[clever yacht]

the bad company 2 movement is perfect or medal of honor movement,i think it could work great for that grounded feel without having twichy movement

[fresh cliff]

I don't think there's such a thing as "perfect movement" because there's a multitude of different movement styles

Like imo both titanfall 2 and Insurgency have amazing movement but they fall under two completely different styles

For a modern-era BF, I personally think a middle ground between 4/HL and V would be best but it could go either direction and fit fine

[dusk ether]

Plus many people attribute good movement to animation, camera motion and input feel over actual mechanics

[gentle star]

Incredible scam

[terse token]

im probably alone on this opinion but i did like the bfv movement and the 2042 movement, the reason for it is because it felt fluid

[bleak willow]

[umbral carbon]

true dude i agree with you

I spent 500 hours playing Battlefield V and really felt that the flexible action system allowed me to quickly move between cover.

[pure zinc]

There isnt going to be specialists

[red bay]

yeah I know, i threw that in as a on top of that already being the case locking to classes

[fresh cliff]

They should throw everyone in a loop and faction lock guns again

[vagrant pebble]

Would be based but too much financial incentive to not do that

Not like it matters tbh, it's NATO vs NATO 😂

[steep onyx]

Imo for me hardcore is very boring and promotes camping and extremely skilless

Which personally, give bf6 portal, and just allow community to make hc, everybody happy

[steep onyx]

If it's gonna be a continuation of 2042 lore wise faction would be similar to 2142 that's my guess

[vagrant pebble]

It’s probably a prequel

Or a new universe altogether like BC games

[dull pier]

in bfv i do this to myself with the addition of faction unique class saves

its rlly fun

[obsidian scroll]

Did you guys discuss weapon locked classes yet?

[dusk ether]

many times

[dull pier]

Weirdly it seems to shift away from that in conversation lol

[minor yew]

now, they are fighting each others about their complain.

[obsidian scroll]

My ideas and complaints are superior to all of you. I am John Battlefield

[minor yew]

wait til dev drops new info .. they would fight about that new topic again 😂😂

[tropic badge]

Not 2/3 weeks , please don’t exaggerate and I was muted for 3 days due to bad language. Probs spent a couple hours in total in here , not sure , doesn’t matter

I’m more open to the idea of what they’re trying to do now regarding classes , before I wasn’t , but at the time it felt like this place was getting far too clicky to have any opinion without it getting unnecessarily undermined so was already in defensive stance

Anyways my apologies for any inconvenient grief!

[waxen cypress]

I don't see anything wrong with that

[tropic badge]

I don’t actually recall calling people children that wanted locked weapons , got heated on the subjected of squad work and 2042 being more tailored for circus like gameplay , ie sundancer and tick-tock clips , so attracts more clownish type gameplays rather than in an actual squad , no sense of that all I was getting at regarding clown , either way it all sort of veered off and got unnecessarily over passionate about the premise of what the game is meant to be about

[obsidian scroll]

They always talk about the battles on the field but never the battles within the discord chat 😮‍💨

[dull pier]

eeeeeeerrrrrrrrrm achuallly

i have peacekeeper so im clearly right ghuys

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-emoji-nerd-meme-radar-gif-26497624

[tropic badge]

Superior? Na I just found some of the things people were saying absolute bs , like BfV medics being the worst in the series or there was about the same lack of squad work as 2042 etc etc .

Well my memories were different and so are many others , doesn’t make anything superior. As for the whole class shit , na I just enjoyed the structure and understood why old Dice did it and that if 2042 didn’t exist no one would really be concerned or care about this class question , superiority doesn’t even come into it.

Can we move on now like , coz there’s a reason why I’d got my back up , so let’s not start again eh ?

[shy slate]

If you actually wanted to clear the air and move on, you wouldnt have DM'd me calling me a liar/exagerator (even tho I posted links to your own comments), then telling me to shut up

[wind oyster]

People are extremely overthinking it ingeneral

I dont think people will care at all once the game releases with open weapon class systems

[dull pier]

We'll have to wait and see

[wind oyster]

2042 is a pretty good example i dont think many people were actually super thrown off by open weapon class

[dull pier]

Dude a fair amount of people literally called it a halfassed class return

[wind oyster]

The halfassed class return was about dice asserting specialists under classes (there originally werent classes)

Aka trying to make classes out of specialists

Not because of the open weapon selection, it was also the smallest concern about 2042

[obsidian scroll]

Stop being man babies, kiss and make up and move on lmao

[wind oyster]

?

No ones even being insultive or toxic lol

[tropic badge]

Bro relax it was just a message wondering why you had to exaggerate, before id messaged here as I wasn’t gunna , you didn’t reply so was compelled , ya made it seem like I’ve been bombarding this place for 3 weeks straight everyday when not the case at all , anyways 😘

[tropic badge]

The likely scenario yes

[pearl kernel]

The classes being open really isn’t that big of a deal as long as the game is good.

[fresh cliff]

If they balance it right, yeah

If they don't balance it correctly, people will def blame the open weapon classes

[wind oyster]

they should blame the weapon balance not the open classes lol

you cant really have terrible balance with open class system

[shy slate]

Weapons wise, no. Gadgets wise, you can

[wind oyster]

ye

[fresh cliff]

A lot of balancing concerns I see are from class perks

Like being spotted just for spotting a recon

Or being able to auto spot while aiming with any gun

[vagrant pebble]

Every nuCoD

[median geode]

i love BF

[wind oyster]

nu?

[vagrant pebble]

Every CoD basically lol

No need to say nu

[wind oyster]

Its not the open weapon wheel within itself though

Mostly broken abilities and mechanics

[vagrant pebble]

It is

LMGs are basically useless in every CoD

BFV and BC2 had perfect LMG balance despite having class locked weapons

[wind oyster]

Open weaponwheel isnt in fault for a set of weapons being bad

[vagrant pebble]

https://tenor.com/view/t1000-terminator-no-gif-10344359

Devs won’t bother fixing less used weapons 🤷

[tropic badge]

Yeah they far exceed open weapons (although a number of people not keen on recons using smgs and spawn beacon spamming with them , this is another thing that concerned balance, it does me still but hey it isn’t going to get changed) , people can create loadouts based on how it use to be if wish, I know I will. Rather them invest time where it needed.

Agreed not liking the recon perks , way too op , one of those perks could be replaced for pathfinder or marksman , something like that , already got a drone for spotting so the spotting features don’t seem necessary , everyone will be constantly lit up

But yeah 2042 , forever felt like was getting constantly spotted , always under fire , always pressed , regardless of a 128 or a 64 player match. Need to ease off on all the ways of getting spotted , they’ve brought some of that back I feel.

Hope they also decrease the size of the spotting blocks over the player too , unnecessarily large.

I don’t wish to always reference BFV but they got that right. It wasn’t intrusive, didn’t clutter the map.

[gentle star]

You were spotted like 24/7 in 5 too

[tropic badge]

You ‘were’

I’m still playing V , just my experience.

What with a flare ? Can be avoided or you shoot it out. You can also unspot yourself with smoke (spot notification disappears ) Not every game someone is using a spotting scope either or certain perks (one is either spot when they get shot , aka marksman or use another snipers spawn , there isn’t two lots of spotting types ) , with 6 there’s no escaping getting spotted currently , I also like the size of Vs icons used when you are spotted , not so intrusive or too obvious , there’s just more of an equilibrium regarding the entire thing in comparison

If you’re happy with two types of spotting perks at the moment despite having a drone as well then fair play. I thought one could be put to some other use that doesn’t involve too much spotting , considering there’s other ways of doing that.

In 2042 , there was not only drones , but spotting throwables and other stuff and then the manual spot which left a massive square over your head , much more consistent stuff than V no ? They also used a tidy marker for manual spotting which left no square over your head just a modest yellow/red marker of last place seen , either way 247 is an exaggeration in comparison

One annoying thing in BFV is not being able to hide from a planes spotting scope (regardless of being inside a building, same with a flare , but smoke can counter that at least) , could have been tweaked fairer , but again not everyone is running that specialisation in every game played luckily

[dull pier]

holy fuck i forgot about the spot grenade

the nightmares are returning to me

[waxen cypress]

I gave 42 another chance yesterday, turned it off after 5 minutes what a horrible game

[white temple]

I did that last week too 💀

Literally 3 mins into match

[boreal harbor]

You clearly didn’t, you went into it with the same old biases

[waxen cypress]

If I was biased I wouldn't have done it

[steel mango]

As we're continuing our testing we will have a follow-up on the classes topic in the near future. You can continue discussions and feedback around classes and other topics in #battlefield-labs-discussion, and we'll likely create a new dedicated channel when we have the next blog going out to you.