battlefield-labs-discussion

[vague barn]

I don't know or have seen how it works in Delta Force, I'm afraid, that game holds zero appeal to me and I don't know why.

[nimble bridge]

Look at it from a youtube video, it worked like that in old DF games too, it's not a new feature but a cool one

[vague barn]

It looks to be some sort of middle-ground between normal and PiP? I notice it zooms in the overall peripheral field of vision but seems to zoom in the actual scope even more.

[feral garden]

PIP scope rendering is optional in DF

[vague barn]

Ah, might be that this particular content creator didn't have it enabled.

[feral garden]

It does have a noticeable performance cost in live MP games tho.

[vague barn]

Yeah, I don't think it should be a forced thing in, well, any game, but it would be neat as an option for those that can make use of it.

[feral garden]

I feel like making such a system, then making it optional is a bit pointless.

Make one type of scope rendering, and make it well. Not 2...and make neither the priority/ as perfect as they could be.

AKA...dont half ass two things...full ass one thing

[fierce barn]

I'm still waiting on beta

[vague barn]

I mean, I don't think it'd be something exceptionally difficult to be implement, really. Then again I am not a game dev. I just prefer PiP optics personally because it gives me better situational awareness.

[safe moat]

Insurgency Sandstorm did it optional and it was good, sure in that game its fitting way more

[safe moat]

While they look good PiP scopes also eat a lot of unnecessary resources, which is why I am in more of “If its gonna be added it better be worked on a lot and is performance friendly”

[feral garden]

Im not against it. Its just near the bottom of my list of things I want for the next game. 😄

[safe moat]

Agreed

[vague barn]

It's a QOL thing for me as well, not really make or break or something I am emotionally attached to being included.

[safe moat]

The performance cost of PiP scopes is basically you are asking the game to render the world second time on demand instantly. In games with smaller maps it works fine because there isn’t a lot of render twice but in games with bigger maps it starts to create problems

I would also be happy if they added it, but unless they somehow fix the performance problem it would create im better with normal scopes

[vague barn]

Yeah, I've played with PiP scopes in Arma Reforger and it does drop performance, but not as much as I think one would imagine.

Then again, draw distance/LODs in that game is a little, let's say, odd.

[safe moat]

Hell even in smaller games it created problems(COD Ghosts). And yes I admit that PiP scope tech in gaming is more advanced then whatever it was used on COD Ghosts back in the time

[spice bramble]

PiP scopes are quite the topic I see

[mossy marten]

I think PiP scopes shouldn't be a thing for BF

[vague barn]

To each their own.

[rustic crest]

It's not really balanced in delta force of what I've seen in gameplay, But with weapon attachments maybe have up to 6-7 attachments?
Muzzle
Grip
Sight
Stock
Laser
Hand grip.

I think DF threw it together not knowing what laserbeams you could make.

But it looks like they have the foundation. Just hope it's good at launch, amd battlefield labs should help with that.

[versed token]

There's no feasible way to balance it in the first place

unless you basically make the stats close to useless

Which in turn makes the whole system useless

[feral garden]

Weight. 😁

More attachments = more weight. The higher the weight, the more aggressive the spread.

[versed token]

🚫

[plain bluff]

capability is directly tied to gun weight irl though

but BF never had a weight system so itd be pointless to implement one now

[feral garden]

Im just saying thats ow you could balance a system like the one in DF. where they allow a crazy amount of attachments.

[plain bluff]

But a few gunsmithing options could be nice:

• Muzzle device
• Barrel length
• Grip
• Tactical slot (x2? one for side, second on top)
• Scope (+ maybe clip ons or magnifiers?)

[feral garden]

You can make the weapon a laser beam with bursting fire(Requires skill/learning the weapon you make). But a stock weapon, or a weapon under a specific "weight threshold" would have less spread, due to lower weight (Because of using less attachments).

[plain bluff]

Anything else is visual appearance and should be handled seperately

[versed token]

While that might work in DF since it basically doesn't have spread i don't see that working well with how spread currently works in BF

[feral garden]

Yeah, gunsmithing > game balance is busted in DF...because they have no spread (It needs it IMO)

Im sure you could develop a weight distribution > spread cone system for a game tho. With mimimal issues

[plain bluff]

spread is such a shitty mechanic all around. its like the basic bitch of balance stats

[feral garden]

Like imagine a system of spread designed around two circles. One circle is your minimum spread (Stock weapon) one is your maximum. As you add more and more weight, that circle of spread enlarges

Spread is necessary for weapon balance, it is insanely easy to counter

[versed token]

What would you do if not spread though?

[plain bluff]

what about ADS speed? Reload speed? Movement speed? Sway magnitude and speed?

[versed token]

Cause recoil doesn't really help

[feral garden]

tonnes of recoil is always the answer

[versed token]

and then we get goofy levels of recoil

[plain bluff]

gun recoil lessens the more shit you put on your gun though

[feral garden]

I always imagine spread as an extremely over exaggerated form of barrel overheating/warping lmao

[plain bluff]

because thats what it essentially is. fully automatic fire should be punished a bit

BC2 had the right idea but went a tad bit far with it

[feral garden]

Hense why spread is good. It doesnt happen on your first 5/6 bullets, only starts after that if you full auto. If you burst in 5-6 round pulses, you have no spread

[plain bluff]

there should definitely be a minor amount of spread at the start

[vague barn]

2 MOA, take it or leave it

[feral garden]

there is to an extent, but not so much that at a weapons expected range youll be missing shots

[low vine]

I hope bf goes towards more pubg gunplay, pubg has the best gunplay

[plain bluff]

bruh 2 moa with military issue ammo is almost fantasy

and barely possible with standard issue 14.5 in 556 barrels

[vague barn]

True, 4 or so would be more realistic.

[feral garden]

Pubg kinda has crazy recoil. At least from what I remember

[low vine]

It does but you can learn to control it

Thats the beauty of it

[versed token]

It also in turn feels awful

gunplay wise

[plain bluff]

but its good silly ideas like "me want pubg gunplay" wont happen

not to offend you, but i wont even entertain it

[low vine]

Didnt say exact copy but more towards that then delta force etc. Every gun should be unique and have their own recoil patterns to master

[plain bluff]

while more competitive mechanics like understanding your gun are okay, giving too much power to sweatlords also isnt good imho.

[feral garden]

PUBG gunplay is designed to be that way due to how low your per match engagements are. I dont think that type of gunplay would work in a single life, always in an engagement game like BF.

[low vine]

Pubg recoil is easy once you get used to it, its not some extreme tho

[feral garden]

Tho im not against learnable recoil patterns and/or weapon mastery as an idea.

[plain bluff]

and the primary reason why i actually like suppression

[low vine]

Suppression should never come back. Sorry but that is such a horrendus mechanic

[versed token]

This is something they should strive for

[plain bluff]

im sorry you think that way. you oughta take cover more often

[feral garden]

You need to also worry about making it too hard to learn for a casual players. You dont want recoil systems that make the skill gap too large. Especially in a game lacking SBMM

[plain bluff]

im for a generally random, but marginal side to side recoil

and guns should have a generalized pattern rather than a concrete one

[versed token]

Wack

[plain bluff]

BFV gunplay was exactly that

[hardy halo]

Oh I see they removed that vr post from the news section

[low vine]

Gunplay cant also be boring mouse 1 full throttle, random pattern and suppression to the mix. There wont be any skill to master and will become boring very quick

[plain bluff]

i refuse to believe people get that into "mastering" guns. you either learn to use it completely within 3 matches or it simply doesnt suit you

this only has to do with dunking on players at any range with the gun of your choice regardless of balance

specialzed tools for specialized purposes

that was off topic, but yes. and also no. you missed my point a bit

what i was trying to say is that guns should have a visualized recoil ellipse

[low vine]

Bf4 and bf3 had recoil patterns to master and you cant full empty the mag 100m+ away

[plain bluff]

i was exaggerating

[feral garden]

Tbh. These discussions are probably exactly why labs exists. They will want to test and iterate on recoil/gunplay.

[plain bluff]

gunplay is the least of their concerns

its an empirical mathematical construct

[feral garden]

I doubt that. Paired with input feeling and movement, it's one of the most important things players immediately feel.

[vague barn]

Apologies for going back in the discussion but gunsmithing is something that I sorely miss in pretty much all Battlefield games. I would say the following should be included as categories:

• Muzzle device (suppressors, compensators, muzzle brakes etc etc).
• Rail accessories (e.g. LLMs/PEQ-boxes).
• Underbarrel accessories (e.g. foregrips, bipods)
• Barrel (e.g. short, carbine, rifle length, maybe various materials)
• Optic (I won't insult your intelligence)
• Optic add-on (e.g. canted irons/red dots, LRF, magnifiers)
  I'd say those are the ones that should matter for practical effect, with other areas (e.g. handguards, stocks, pistol grips) being aesthetic only.

[plain bluff]

i read rail accesories and immediately wanted to say, just put the foregrip at the 9 oclock position

its technically a rail accessory

[vague barn]

lmao, fair point

[plain bluff]

gunplay is ultimately derived from how the game progresses in movement

for engaging gunplay, movement and positioning of gunfights precedes it

you start by letting the player move how you want. then you build a map around these movement parameters. you derive, derive and derive some more

Titanfall is a heavenly blend of movement and gunplay (for its own game direction)

its extremely unwise to translate something from one game to the other and expect it to perform how you want

if you want a more coherent game experience, slow the movement down a notch

you'll be surprised how it turns out

[nimble bridge]

We don't need more than 4

• Muzzle
• Scope
• Underbarrel
• Accessory(Mostly lasers in BF4 but other stuff too)

[vague barn]

Need? Nope, 4 is enough. Desirable? Around 6 that affect handling, more that affect aesthetic appearance.

[plain bluff]

the aesthetic appearance should be handled seperately imo. and that should be the selling point for "weapon styles" that change the following:

• handguard
• receivers
• rear grip
• stock

only a visual change. no stats are affected

[vague barn]

Agreed, it should be separate "progression chain" and/or store.

[plain bluff]

imagine, a retro m4 appearance. i want my gordon carbine man...

[nimble bridge]

I don't care about aesthetics, I care about functionality, not a single game with gunsmithing has good balance with it. Not like real life guns are lego pieces like in the games with gunsmithing. It's highly inaccurate in real life too.

[vague barn]

Wasn't Gordon the dude with the M14?

[plain bluff]

no?

just google gordon carbine

[vague barn]

Huh, I always thought he carried that M14.

[plain bluff]

muzzle device can effect:

• muzzle climb
• side to side bounce from mechanical action
• gas blowback

a different barrel:

• recoil
• velocity
• handling

guns are actually legos bro. you build it for your specific use case

[vague barn]

I understand that you don't care about aesthetics, but a lot of other people do (myself included). It gets bland to see people run identical weapons aesthetically. Real life rifles are more or less picatinny rail adapters today, I know the Dutch Army even has picatinny on their rifle stocks for the C7/C8s

[plain bluff]

im personally a quad chud myself

geissele is fine too

[vague barn]

I'm more of a LWRC nerd myself

[nimble bridge]

• Gas blowback
  No we don't need visual recoil crap

[plain bluff]

please tell me youre joking right now

[nimble bridge]

Gas blowback is that

Visual recoil

Like in MW roman numeral 2

Weapon turns to a barbeque if you fire 2 rounds

[mossy marten]

Visual recoil better not exist in the next game

[plain bluff]

ill address this, but i gotta correct myself. gas blowback is a combo result from the gas system and muzzle device. its usually like so because of reliability

[nimble bridge]

You can't turn a PPSh into this, guns aren't legos:
https://youtu.be/fZCu7n1WjBc

[plain bluff]

modern guns are functionally legos and you just used a pssh as an example

[vague barn]

I was unaware we were discussing 1940's tech.

[plain bluff]

you 🤡

[nimble bridge]

Most modern guns aren't that too

You can slap on AK stock to every gun in DF or CoD

Or M4 stock

[plain bluff]

there exists a multibillion market for gun accessories and youre actually just talking out of your ass

[nimble bridge]

Or use G3 barrels on M4A1

[vague barn]

@plain bluff Should we tell him that stock adapters exist for AKs and ARs?

[nimble bridge]

Have you played last CoDs?

Show me a real life M4 with G3 barrel

[plain bluff]

should i tell him you only need a barrel and bolt change to swap from 5.56 to 6mm arc

[plain bluff]

now youre mad for no reason.

[vague barn]

No, that is a valid complaint, I don't want that in a Battlefield game, it should be grounded in realistically viable modifications.

[nimble bridge]

Whatever, I don't care, I just don't want that 🤡 shit in BF

Gunsmithing is that, 🤡 shit

[plain bluff]

pray tell how grounded gunsmithing is a bad idea

[nimble bridge]

It makes gameplay worse

[plain bluff]

how?

[nimble bridge]

CoD still can't balance it despite it being in 5-6 games

Delta Force is unplayable due to ARs being able to beam from 120 meters

[vague barn]

So, what exactly do you want? Everyone to run with M68 CCOs or ACOGs on M4A1s and maybe a foregrip?

[nimble bridge]

Yes

All guns should have specific advantages and disadvantages to them

[plain bluff]

have you ever played a g3 with magnum ammo in bc2

that shit was beyond saving

[nimble bridge]

I haven't played much BC2 in the first place

Besides campaign

[plain bluff]

understandable

[nimble bridge]

M4 can be a jack of all trades master of none weapon

[plain bluff]

anyway, the key to balance is to have as few modifiers as possible.

[nimble bridge]

Exactly

[vague barn]

Right, thanks for clarifying, I can now safely discard your current opinions as irrelevant and idiotic.

[nimble bridge]

Bro, DICE can't even balance a game with 4 attachment slots, do you expect them to balance a game with 10 attachment slots

Half the barrels are still broken in 2042

[vague barn]

No, I don't expect there to be no meta.

[plain bluff]

you can have that by balancing guns with specific attachments separately. or - attachments should have minimal impact to the gun

[vague barn]

I expect to have more than one configuration of a rifle that I can still be competitive with.

[nimble bridge]

If it has minimal impact then why bother?

[mossy marten]

Most of the barrels are useless since they lower RoF, but only really extend damage range slightly
Ergo, the ttk becomes out of whack and people choose faster RoF barrels because ttk = faster

[silver sinew]

Like call of duty ?

[plain bluff]

i meant to say "not insignificant"

when i say barrel length, what do you expect to change?

thought experiment

[nimble bridge]

And some barrels don't effect ROF so you get SVKs with sniper velocity shooting at ROF of a shortened barrel

[nimble bridge]

Barrels shouldn't be interchangable

Imo

[vague barn]

Between rifles? No. Between realistic options? Yes.

[novel sinew]

You guys think the quick swap will be in the next BF?

I know it was a major feature of BF2042, but I think it was broken.

Maybe a cooldown could fix a lot of issues.

[plain bluff]

when you say interchangeable, what do you mean by this?

[vague barn]

I reeally, really hope not.

[plain bluff]

obviously not on the fly because thats stupid

[vague barn]

I hate the Plus system.

[plain bluff]

the plus system is bad to put it mildly

[nimble bridge]

Meaning you can't slap on an AK barrel to an M4

[novel sinew]

I think it could be balanced with cooldowns.

For example, you could switch your Optics however many times you want.

But if you change your barrel for example, then there is a 30s - 1 minute cooldown.

So you actually commit to the change, not just randomly switching every 2 seconds.

[nimble bridge]

I would use 2042 system and cut out mag options and barrel options honestly, I would rather have accessory so people can use lasers and grips at the same time

[plain bluff]

wtf does that even mean? it feels like youre intentionally misunderstanding the barrel argument

an m4 can comfortably fit the standard 14.5 inch or the 11.5 inch barrel

[mossy marten]

Best attachment slots imho would be:

• Optics
• Muzzles (to choose specific recoil controls/first shot modifiers)
• Underbarrels (hipfire accuracy with laser, grenade launcher, grips for spread tuning)
• Stocks (movement stuff, strafe speeds, faster sprint speeds, etc)

[vague barn]

Still no. I don't want to see on the fly change of barrel lengths or calibers.

Nor optics or laser modules.

Anything at all.

[plain bluff]

agreed

[vague barn]

I just don't want it.

[nimble bridge]

You can do that if that barrel is made for M4, barrels in CoD games are from all over the place, you can use G3 barrel on that Spanish gun for example

[novel sinew]

Another way would be to force you through an animation of you "switching" it.

So it's not on the fly.

I think the quickswap is a good feature because it prevents redeploy. But it needs to be balanced.

However, if removing it is healthier then I'm fine with either or.

[vague barn]

Still no. I do NOT want it in any way shape or form

[nimble bridge]

I hope plus system stays to prevent gunsmithing tumor They need to remove mag options and barrel options though

[vague barn]

Preventing redeploy is not a good thing in my view.

It removes need for forethought.

[vague barn]

Here's the thing; you think we want you to be able to slap an incompatible barrel on a weapon system, in your own example a G3 barrel on an M4, we don't want that.

We want to be able to put a 14.5" barrel or a 11.5" AR15 barrel on an M4.

[novel sinew]

That's another thing, plus system did really well in preventing full on "metas" in the game like say COD/Warzone, because all the attachments actually had situational use which justified it.

[versed token]

Dunno about that one

I basically use the same setup on every gun

[vague barn]

The plus system did not remove the meta, the meta still exists and in my opinion in worse form than in the past.

Previously the meta was a jack of all trades master of none, now the meta is the optimal setup for all scenarios, just that you need to press an extra button to access it without any penalty.

[novel sinew]

But if I'm being honest, I haven't played BF2042 in like 9 months lol.

I just found it boring, if I'm playing a "Battlefield"-like game it's Delta Force and BF1/BF5.

[spice bramble]

I'd love to play some DF but I can't run it

And make it look somewhat decent at the same time

[novel sinew]

Bros PC is going to literally put your house on fire for Battlefield if you can't run Delta Force lol.

[spice bramble]

I have the minimum requirements so I don't know what the fucking deal is

WELL over, in fact

I don't know if it's thermal throttling or what

[novel sinew]

Battlefield games have always been pretty solid PC port/optimization wise.

I hope that's a priority for them this go around, because the trend of needing a 3080 to run anything above 60fps is cringe.

[spice bramble]

I think that my CPU is holding me back

[nimble bridge]

I don't want it because it creates a meta like moody said. That's all the CoD content in youtube right now, ''this new weapon is actually broken!'', guy shares the optimal loadout and boom everyone uses the same gun until it's nerfed 10 days later

[vague barn]

Metas are always going to exist dude.

[novel sinew]

Metas will always exist, but it was definitely less prevalent in BF from my personal experience.

I just want the game to be most importantly ACTUALLY GOOD.

[spice bramble]

The metas were basically just

AEK in BF4

M16A3 or whatever it was in BF3

In the newer fields I dunno

[novel sinew]

I think it's really cool however

[nimble bridge]

Sure but I remember beating Type 2A players with Welgun in BFV, can't do that in CoD

[vague barn]

What does that have to do with this discussion? Having a meta weapon doesn't make you invincible, go figure.

[novel sinew]

Really? A game about killing people in war and the F word is banned? lol.

Anyways, the fact that they're even doing this test thing I hope is a genuine effort of them not wanting to screw this game up.

Vince made COD and Titanfall, I have faith he can deliver with BF.

[vague barn]

Hopefully so, I'm very, very cautiously optimistic about it.

[novel sinew]

If we're going back to modern.

One thing on my wishlist is a Siege of Shanghai remake.

What a good map.

[vague barn]

Siege of Shaghai was kinda meh in my opinion.

I just didn't get along with it for some reason 🤷‍♂️

[nimble bridge]

Gunsmithing creates OP weapons that can't be beaten by other weapons, meta in DF or CoD is the same thing, creating no recoil laserbeams with lowest TTK weapons, no weapon balance exists.

[novel sinew]

I think it was the perfect "default map".

Like it's not crazy, has a cool gimmick with the building, but the layout of the whole map was generally very balanced.

[spice bramble]

Battlefield 2025 is the trump card of EA. They've killed off basically every franchise that they owned. They have the sports games left and that is it

[nimble bridge]

I could beat Type 2A players with Welgun in BFV because Type 2A doesn't have good hipfire accuracy unlike Welgun, Welgun beams from hipfire despite having high TTK

[spice bramble]

So the success of Battlefield is vital this time around

[novel sinew]

Even the sports games are declining lol.

[spice bramble]

Exactly, just adds to to neccessity of the BF being GREAT, not decent

But looking at Ubisoft and how it puts out so many failures, yet it still hasn't gone bankrupt

AAAA game they said

[novel sinew]

It just needs to be BF3/BF4.... but MODERN.

Give me the movement of BF5 and the aiming of 3/4 and I'm incredibly happy by default.

[vague barn]

Gunsmithing does not in itself create OP weapons. You're going to have "op"/"meta" weapons regardless of the gunsmith mechanic being present or not.

[nimble bridge]

Gunsmithing makes those weapons only viable weapons instead

[vague barn]

Not really, no.

[spice bramble]

It's not about what it needs to be but about what the devs are willing to do

And more importantly the execs

Because if they put trends in front of classic BF again it's joeover

[novel sinew]

You already know Unicorn skin bundles and like 1 map every 4 months is coming.

If that's the case, it's going to be depressing.

[spice bramble]

Hey, but this begs the question

Why would a guy like David Sirland return just to work on another failure of a game?

He left the DICE and apparently had a reason to rejoin it

They have to be listening to the devs this time around, otherwise I don't know what the appeal would be

[vague barn]

I wouldn't put too much value in that to be honest.

[spice bramble]

I'm willing to bet he would be accepted into TTK or Embark

[vague barn]

People change jobs for any number of reasons.

[tidal forge]

Have they begun sending out invites for the playtest starting tomorrow?

[spice bramble]

no

[vague barn]

No.

[spice bramble]

But it's uncommon to leave a position just to return not long after

[novel sinew]

Based on what Vince has said so far, it does seem that they're really trying to match BF3/BF4 in terms of vibe/gameplay.

If they make something on par with those, then they're already going to see a big W on their hands.

I just hope they don't overreach and know their place.

[spice bramble]

Vince has credibility to him

But if EA throw sticks under them then they must genuinely be fucking stupid

[vague barn]

Undoubtedly, but I would still restrain my expectations.

[spice bramble]

Senile shareholders that dont know what's good

[novel sinew]

Vince has given EA like 5 Ws.

They would be stupid to keep him on a leash, he knows how to actually cook.

[nimble bridge]

EA offered him good 🤑 maybe?

EA needs him more than he needs EA I bet

[spice bramble]

What good would it be if he couldn't do meaningful work

They'd only want him back if they actually wanted to change something fundamental

[novel sinew]

EA would have another W on their hands if they actually made Titanfall 3.

But they don't like money.

[spice bramble]

They do like money

Just not the heard earned money

[nimble bridge]

Apex is TF3 ☝️ 🤓

[spice bramble]

Far from it

[novel sinew]

The word of mouth of Titanfall 2 alone is enough to make Titanfall 3 a massively hyped game.

Titanfall 2 is praised as one of the best shooters of the PS4/Xbox One era.

And they deserve it, because Titanfall 2 was incredible.

I just hope I can one day say the same about Battlefield, BF1 was the last "OMG this is a literal masterpiece" game they made.

[spice bramble]

I'm annoyed that BF1 won't click for me

[molten lance]

Battlefield 1 is indeed the best battlefield ever made.

[spice bramble]

naw

[molten lance]

it is

[novel sinew]

I think BF1 at its core is a very simple game for all intents and purposes.

But the reason it slaps so hard, is because it's probably the most immersive Battlefield game.

Operations, the art style, everything came together like glue.

[nimble bridge]

2042 is

[spice bramble]

It's the shallow gameplay that I dislike

And the settings too, perhaps

[molten lance]

A lot of people hate battlefield 1 for gameplay... i dont get it why

the semi auto guns?

what is it?

[spice bramble]

I like my guns to be accurate

[nimble bridge]

Slide button is a respawn button

[spice bramble]

And snipers not to be a pain in the ass

[novel sinew]

It's just simplistic.

Barely any weapon customization, etc was a huge gripe for people.

[spice bramble]

The vehicles weren't that interesting either

[versed token]

Smgs being stupidly good in hipfire

[molten lance]

i mean its ww1... so weapon customization its poor

and i like that xd

[spice bramble]

Having a modern Battlefield on BF1s tier would be a wet dream come true, though

[novel sinew]

My biggest request though.... PLEASE bring back the "glitchy modern" look BF3/BF4 had.

It's just iconic.

[molten lance]

I hope they bring the immersive bf1 style, dark maps consumed by smoke in the map florest fires background

i hope we get bf4 night setting also

[spice bramble]

Look?

What do you mean specifically?

The OST and loading screens are glitchy, is that what you mean?

[novel sinew]

Music + Menu/HUD/broader UI aesthetic.

[molten lance]

I absolute hate the 2042 UI...

[spice bramble]

On that we 100% agree

2042's UI is disaster

I'm also hoping that the vehicle are intimidating again

[novel sinew]

Man..... what could've been with the Battlefield 2042 UI.

So much potential... ruined.

[spice bramble]

I remember hiding from a tank on the objective and genuinely being kind of scared lol

[molten lance]

Is there anything that 2042 made good? i personally think that game was downgrade in everythingggg

[novel sinew]

snipes from building

"Why did that tank stop?"

boom, I'm dead.

Vehicles used to be pretty scary.

[spice bramble]

I like BF2042

Not anymore because performance dropped

I like it as a game not as a Battlefield though

[spice bramble]

I can just imagine that you see a sniper in a building and level the whole thing

If the destruction will be great

[molten lance]

One thing that i loved about battlefield is how good the animations are running,reload, and such... Battlefield 2042 is so goofy

[novel sinew]

When the indie horror game has better running animations then a AAA game.

[spice bramble]

BF2042 also looks REALLY plastic-y

I hate it

[molten lance]

BattlefieldV have the best movement, and tank gameplay in my opinion... i also love how planes get the wings destroyed and affect how u pilot... that was a thing in bf1 and bf5... and i love it

[novel sinew]

I think BF5 was an incredibly underrated Battlefield.

My biggest gripe was the healing system.

[molten lance]

BF4 had AI Anti air in the base to fight "spawn rape" by vehicles... battlefield 2042 didnt have that in launch and i dont even know if it still doesnt have it... 2042 is such a dumb game.

[spice bramble]

You mentioned BF V's tanks

Wasn't there a ricochet mechanic?

If I remember correctly

[molten lance]

yes, its in bf1 too

[spice bramble]

That's what I think they should add to some extent

Point and click is stale, the possibility of missing would add more tension to tank fights

Or even infantry agaisnt tank fights

[molten lance]

yeh

I loved how V1 rocket explosion in bfV can push u to the ground, i would love to see that back, but only with realy realy big explosions since battlefield have explosions every where

And bring back battlefield V Reinforcements, is such a good feature, gaining squad points to help the team in combat

[spice bramble]

Yeah

But then what would commander have if he were to return

[molten lance]

no need for commander, BFV Reinforcements takes the cake.

[heady thorn]

[stark leaf]

I d love that we get Portal in that state of game and its gameplay just like BF1 and BF5 had

[mossy marten]

[tough zinc]

do yall think they will release a teaser trailer or something else before LABS sessions will go live??

[versed token]

Nope

[safe moat]

Maybe

[wispy dagger]

I don’t think so

I think the only thing we’ll see next are the inevitable leaks

[tough zinc]

so basically people will get to know the new bf by playing labs

not that great imo

[sudden lodge]

Depending on how long the testing is going to last, I can maybe see one be released half way through testing

[wispy dagger]

Wdym I think it’s going to be great for us players

As long as the play testers give good feedback we have a chance at a great game being developed

[vital valve]

If they didn't do it - you'd complain
they do it - you complain

🤷

[tough zinc]

I meant getting to know the new bf before an actual teaser releases by playing labs is not that good

LABS is gold, dont get me wrong

there will eventually be leaks all over socials soo

[nimble bridge]

There is a state of play soon, so maybe

[steel torrent]

highly improbable

[safe moat]

For those who will be chosen, PLEASE remember that Labs will have probably Unstable Pre Alpha builds, the game WILL NOT even be close to be finished

[steel torrent]

did not meant the caps, I have my kid hitting me as I type hahaha

[safe moat]

Keep it ün caps

[steel torrent]

makes no sense for them to show anything on state of play

IMO, way too early

[safe moat]

I mean, they could show another Pre Alpha trailer

Like the one we had at the end of the Labs video

[steel torrent]

it would be cool if they did teasers or clips of the things people will get to test

for those with no chance to test it

[safe moat]

Yea

I think they should do it

Like maybe a monthly 15 second teaser clip when Labs testing is on

Straight from the test itself

[nimble bridge]

It can be another teaser

If so it's going to have BF3 marketing strat 1:1

First teaser of BF3 ended with an RPG to a building too

Also has the same quick cuts

[safe moat]

I mean, who would say no

Also I have a feeling this games focus colors will be orange, like 2042 was focused on turquoise/blue

[nimble bridge]

BF3 continued to have teasers for a while until they released the whole fault line trailer

[nimble bridge]

It might be true, first concept art had that too

[cursive ridge]

not the gif

[cursive ridge]

https://tenor.com/view/skyrim-margin-awake-marginskyrim-gif-20155428

thats the gif

lmao

[dry grotto]

💀

[tough zinc]

orange is my fav colour👀 peak BF always had red/orange

[nimble bridge]

BFV

[tough zinc]

that had blue didnt it?

[nimble bridge]

Pacific had orange

[tough zinc]

in fact pacific was the best thing of that game

[nimble bridge]

I prefer base game maps, I like some of the pacific weapons though

Except Type 2A

Should be deleted from the game

[tough zinc]

that was bad yeah but I mean the pacific expansion felt like battlefield when they announced and released it

so maybe orange is the blessed colour for the franchise

[heady thorn]

I love using this emote, one of my faves

[vague barn]

It is a kjempebra emote.

[heady thorn]

Jau 🙂

[vague barn]

Sorry but I really, really like the "kjempe-" prefix.

[heady thorn]

Giant words.

[vague barn]

Indeed.

[random vessel]

Quick question, do yall think wall rappelling would be an interesting mechanic in the next BF? Just an idea.

I think it would introduce a lot of strategy and add to the immersion of a modern warfare game.

[vague barn]

Grappling hooks/scaling equipment could be interesting. Makes sense as it's a rather common activity for VBSS and mountaineering shit

And also for rescuing a shitload of hostages in Iranian embassies in metropolitan London in 1981.

[mossy marten]

Nah, a zipline up/down would be better

Wall repelling should stay in R6:S

[feral garden]

Yeah...I dont want players able to hang off the sides of buildings and camp/shoot me. Thats like Mackay in 2042 X1000 levels of frustration

[minor linden]

Would be cool, but I feel like it’d either be incredibly overpowered or never used

[feral garden]

Map designers nightmare also...how do you place/design cover when all angles are viable shiooting angles

[vague barn]

Yeah that's no bueno for me as well, but using it as a scaling method would be fine imo, i.e. not being able to use any weapon system while on it.

[spice bramble]

I mentioned this 10 times already but a grapple hook that works like a ladder would be nice..

[random vessel]

I think the upward zip line and Mackays grappling hook were done poorly in 2042. It just lacked realism in my opinion

[spice bramble]

BF2 special forcessss

[vague barn]

MacKays grappling hook is entirely idiotic.

[spice bramble]

Maybe we'll just get it

So many people want "movement" that I dunno anymore

[vague barn]

Speculation is my favorite hobby.

[spice bramble]

The best hobby

[random vessel]

Yeah for sure

[vague barn]

Fair point though, I can't imagine them overcoming this so I guess I will have to change my opinion.

[minor linden]

Fr. Something like the hardline grapple would be really good to have

[spice bramble]

Tbh players did use helicopters to get themselves into all sorts of places

[feral garden]

Mackay introduced similar issues in 2042. Thats why im kinda against any form of grapple hook/fast wall traversal gadgets in the next game.

Players uses grapple hook/line to reach a roof not conventionally reachable > shoots other players > players cant reach them to kill > Player becomes frustrated.

[wispy dagger]

No grapple hooks

Someone on a roof bothering you?

Blow up the entire building

[vague barn]

Yeah, the more I think about it, the less I like the idea.

It would be cool until someone else used it >:(

[heady thorn]

There is a difference between one random guy getting on a roof by jumping out of a transport helicopter, than every person having the capability of doing it via a gadget or class.

[minor linden]

Eh, imo any building that a grapple could realistically reach the top of should already be conveniently reachable. It’s not like a grapple hook can be launched to the top of a skyscraper

[nimble bridge]

They should bring back Mackay

[vague barn]

No thanks.

[spice bramble]

This

Or just make grappling time consuming

Not a 2 second flight in the air to get to the top

[vague barn]

Yeah, if at all implemented it'd have to be limited quite drastically to the point that I can't really see it being worthwhile.

[nimble bridge]

What if he's a DLC

[vague barn]

No thanks.

[spice bramble]

Hobbyist, imagine it like this though

Imagine there's a bridge and you can conventionally use the stairs to get on it

But instead you grapple in the middle of it potentionally outflanking people on said bridge

[minor linden]

That’s the one issue I have. Even in hardline, grapples are only really used to get the jump on people camping the conventional paths onto roofs. There’s not really ever a reason to use the grapple if you can easily get up there conventionally

[spice bramble]

Shoot a grapple on the bridge -> climb it like a rope

[feral garden]

They arent tho. Look at a 2042 map like Manifest for example. Mackay players can get on top of ALL of those containers/containers on ships, ETC. Other players can not get to them easily (Without also swapping to using a grapple hook)

[minor linden]

That’s cause Mackay’s grappling hook has unfathomable reach and those maps aren’t properly designed for him

There’s a reason why I said should

[vague barn]

Cool, but very situational.

[feral garden]

Same with cranes on any of the maps. Grapple can get you to the top of the crane, non grapple using players cant reach there

[spice bramble]

Wouldn't hurt to have it

And it was just one example after all

[heady thorn]

Having some blocked off areas is a net positive, can you imagine if mackay could get on amien, rotterdam or seine crossing?

[vague barn]

I think it'd hurt quite drastically in other scenarios.

[feral garden]

even a grapple that can reach 5' away would introduce such issues, so its not about reach

[vague barn]

Especially urban ish maps.

[spice bramble]

If it could be somehow restricted

In BFH you had certain spots you could shoot it on

[feral garden]

Its just my opinion that having grapple/zip line gadgets significantly restricts the type of maps you can make

[spice bramble]

I can do without the hooks so it's a whatever for me

[versed token]

The amount of unintended spots you could get to was staggering

[spice bramble]

From personal experience, I didn't have any problems

[feral garden]

Like @heady thorn said above, imagine how shit past games maps like Seine Crossing, Rotterdam, Amiens, Grand Bazaar and such would be if those games allowed easy scaling of buildings.

Even heavily restricted its a nightmare for testing, and having to set hard map boundaries/restrictions

[heady thorn]

It absolutely destroys and ruins any attempt at map flow

2042 is a great example of that

[versed token]

From personal experience i used a bunch of them

and found many

[spice bramble]

Alright

If it were to hinder the game I don't want it

[sudden lodge]

What if it was used as build defensive or whatever it was called in BFV
Where you could build a zip line to help your teammates getting in to the adjective, and enemy team could destroy it, or build one for them self?

[feral garden]

As long as its a built in part of intended map flow, im fine with ziplines

[heady thorn]

It is not about the fact that some players can find glitch spots, or ways to get to areas but the fact that it would be easy, accessible and everyone would have the capability.

Op Underground had a glitch spot where you could into if you knew what you were doing, but wasn't the easiest and if broken you couildnt get up there. With Mackay, theoretically you still could

[feral garden]

Akin to the lines that allowed fast track scaling of the tall building on Orbital.

To a degree im a bit against the use of ziplines for solving map flow/traversal issues. But as long as a zipline isnt always used as a way to solve a map design issue, its fine

[mossy marten]

any tall buildings should have other ways to scale other than just elevator or an aircraft. Ziplines help (BF4 Siege of Shangai, I'm looking at you)

[wispy dagger]

Omg I hope none of you vaccine play testers no offense

[sudden lodge]

I thought of it as like rainbow six ask where zip line could be used to get in to buildings in short distances

[wispy dagger]

No grapple hooks no zip lines

[mossy marten]

bro wants to get insta killed leaving an elevator on a skyscraper 😭

[feral garden]

I liked siege for exactly these reasons. It was well designed as you could enter from the bar level, or take the higher point elevator entry...but not be able to capture/defend from up there

[wispy dagger]

There should be multiple ways to assault a building

[vague barn]

I can't talk intelligently on how it works in Siege.

[mossy marten]

yes

[wispy dagger]

Helicopter, parachute, stairs, elevator

[mossy marten]

ziplines

[wispy dagger]

No grapple hooks no zip lines

[sudden lodge]

Like a zip line

[mossy marten]

[wispy dagger]

We’re doomed

[feral garden]

Like IMO...the roof objective on Orbital, due to its amount of entry points is not a defendable point.

[sudden lodge]

And an elevator and stair

[wispy dagger]

That’s because it was a poorly designed map

[feral garden]

5 separate entry points, not counting from helicopters/transports

[minor linden]

Eh, siege is more balanced than you think. The elevator allows for a well defended point, but it’s insanely open to aircraft attacks

[sudden lodge]

I agree with you

[wispy dagger]

Siege is a 5v5 small map game

[spice bramble]

Taxi transport choppers were the way on Shanghai

[wispy dagger]

Not a 32v32 all out warfare with vehicles

[minor linden]

“Siege” of Shanghai is a map from bf4

[mossy marten]

Then again, skyscrapers like in Siege of Shaghai shouldn't be in BF imho

[wispy dagger]

Got it

Missed that point

[heady thorn]

flags ontop of skyscrapers aint it

[mossy marten]

and that

[wispy dagger]

Siege was a great map

The fight for the top was fun

[feral garden]

Are you team building stays up, or team building must come down?

🤣

[heady thorn]

makes shanghai way worse ngl

[minor linden]

Imo siege was a good map. Snipers were a bit annoying, but they have to actually predict where you’re moving since they’re so far away

[mossy marten]

Siege played better when skyscaper was knocked

[feral garden]

I preferred it when it was up. Vastly so haha

[spice bramble]

When it was up it had a different atmosphere

[feral garden]

The central flag becomes indefensible once the building falls. Its just shooting fish in a barrel.

[spice bramble]

Dunno how to explain

[minor linden]

Building stays up for 90% of the match then comes down near the end

Imo the rubble is better for end-of-game plays

[spice bramble]

When the building was up all the action was there

So you could run around other objectives

[feral garden]

Then they give you an attack boat for owning it beacause...reasons? It would have been good of the waterway actually wrapped around the skyscraper. But it was always funny when you sailed up the side canals, and it just leads nowhere. 😄

[wispy dagger]

Stays up so we can parachute off the top

[sudden lodge]

Just to change the subject
What weapons do we hope will be in this game

[feral garden]

The attack boat would have been cool of there was a connecting canal there on the blue area

[vague barn]

In the interest of keeping the list simple:

• LWRC IC-A5
• HK417
• Glock 17 Gen 5 MOS

[feral garden]

Instead you just driver around in the open and have rockets and snipers shot at you haha

[spice bramble]

Would you guys like to be able to flank through the sewers?

[mossy marten]

Idk, just better be a good amount of them and most of them use-able

[vague barn]

This is probably a better answer than I gave tbh. I just want a bunch of variety and variants so you can stay competitive with more than just one weapon system.

[ancient lark]

Do we want to keep the on-the-fly customization like 2042 introduced? The 'T' menu? Changing scopes / ammo / rail mid-battle?

[vague barn]

No.

[ancient lark]

lol

Fair enough... I liked it. But no other game 'needed' it

[vague barn]

I despise it with my every fibre of my being.

[mossy marten]

But some specific guns that I want to see that aren't very much seen.

• Beryl
• AK that is actually 7.62
• MSBS
• Tochnost

[feral garden]

Plus systems flexibility mainly makes sense in the context of 2042s single life hazard zone. It was cool to have in 2042 core modes, but I dont really care if they remove it for the next game.

[ancient lark]

In the end.. at least for scopes.. nothing that a 1.5-4x cannot solve.

[spice bramble]

Coyotoe sight is all I need

[mossy marten]

Oh
and they better have a true 1.00x sight and not 1.25x as the lowest

[cedar flax]

I liked it alot but maybe it could be limited to when you're interacting or close to an ammocache

[minor linden]

No. It ruined the whole point of customizing your loadout to cover your weaknesses. When I play sniper I have a shotgun or fast-firing secondary for close quarters action. Same with assault but the opposite way. With the plus system, you can go from a long range combo to a short range combo in 2 secs so there’s no point in min-maxing your guns to try to cover as many ranges and situations as possible

[feral garden]

Realistically, the plus system fixed a problem Battlefield didn't have.

[ancient lark]

Those are great takes.. I tend to agree. It wouldn't be too hard to adjust back to a load out before you spawn. You just have to be thoughtful on what your next engagement will be and scope/ammo/rail appropriately.

[minor linden]

If anything, the plus system just made the “meta” guns even more meta since you could use one gun for nearly any situation

[sudden lodge]

I hope if the rumor, that is NATO vs private military is true,
Going to highlight the different weapons in use by different nation in nato

[crystal fossil]

Ak74, AK12, groza 4, ak103, ak15

[crystal fossil]

so russia is a private military...

that's sounds mid

[minor linden]

I kinda want a marlin lookalike lever action as one of the random guns

[mortal hawk]

Hello all!

[minor linden]

Would be neat to use

[crystal fossil]

nah

[ancient lark]

One thing I'd like to see punished is the sway-gun fights. Just strafing left/right while shooting. It seems like such a silly way to conduct combat. but it is highly effective in 2042

[minor linden]

It’s been leaked to be a pmc. Basically just a corporation-owned military

[crystal fossil]

lol, russia army a pmc

[versed token]

You do get increased spread/accuracy penalty for moving and shooting

[crystal fossil]

so there aren't russia team

[mortal hawk]

Something what is bottering since the last battlefield and should imo be improved on in the new battlefield.
Why make 4 classes if (i assume) there are 5 men squads, make 5 classes : Assault, Medic, Engineer, Support, Recon for better squad play.

[crystal fossil]

I just hope the shooting mechanics is exactly like bf3, same goes for movement

[crystal fossil]

assault seems useless then

assault should be medics

[ancient lark]

I would like that. You'll see me reference BF:2 a lot, but the gun fights were way more realistic there. If you came upon someone.. you both stop.. start shooting.. and usually the first one to crouch and continue to fire won. None of this jumping / strafing biz

[wispy dagger]

Assault medic engineer recon spec ops

[minor linden]

I like what it seems like they’re doing rn. Medic gets merged into support while engineer takes its place

[crystal fossil]

and you don't empty your magazin in a row, you shot burst by burst

[ancient lark]

Yes.. to control groupings!

[crystal fossil]

yes

bf1 still had this

[ancient lark]

That's funny, I actually forgot about that burst

[crystal fossil]

after this

it was gone

[ancient lark]

2042.. is largest magazine wins

lol

[crystal fossil]

my hated bf are 2042, V and hardline for COD like gameplay

[sudden lodge]

I don’t know but that’s how I heard it struggling

[minor linden]

I’ve never understood the people who complain about having to burst. They literally just want laser rifles that allow you to control full auto at long range

[minor linden]

Why hardline tho. It’s just 4 reskinned

[crystal fossil]

these people all came from call of, that's why

[mortal hawk]

depends on what weapons and gadgets it could have

[vague barn]

Bro is full of bad takes.

[crystal fossil]

my opinion tho, hardline looked something that I couldn't call bf

[spice bramble]

Plenty of them as of late

[minor linden]

It’s basically just 4 with some addons. I do love it tho. It’s easily my second favorite bf

[vague barn]

As CPL said, it's basically a reskinned BF4.

[sudden lodge]

Despite me asking the question the only weapon I actually knew I and want this game is a M6E6 and Beretta AR70

[crystal fossil]

so, I don't liked it

[vague barn]

ok

[crystal fossil]

😑

[minor linden]

I wish it would’ve been launched under a different name. It was a really good game, it just wasn’t a true battlefield game cause of the theming

[vague barn]

M60E6?

[crystal fossil]

that's what I meant

it can't be called bf

[sudden lodge]

Yes in-service with Denmark

[vague barn]

With what?

[crystal fossil]

I hope there are heroes in the new bf 🤓

[minor linden]

[sudden lodge]

With what?

[vague barn]

As previously mentioned, bro is full of bad takes.

[crystal fossil]

I would love to see spiderman 🤓

[manic gate]

the chocolate?

[vague barn]

You mentioned Denmark but I don't know about what that is?

[crystal fossil]

bf2042 is okay to have bad takes

[minor linden]

They should def add Star Wars characters too

I wanna be decapitated by darth Vader after pushing a corner

[crystal fossil]

YEAHHH

[ancient lark]

Battlefield v Battlefront

[crystal fossil]

and that's how bf2042 was ruined

[sudden lodge]

I meant that the M60E6 is in-service in Denmark

[vague barn]

I can see my subtle hints aren't bringing my joke across. I am Swedish, Denmark is the arch-enemy, as such, I don't recognise it as a country as a joke.

I wasn't aware the Danish Army used M60E6 though, that's rather interesting, any reason they chose that one over the FN MAG or MG3?

[naive lintel]

kinda late to the party, but what if you had semi-permanent (can be destroyed) grapple hooks/ziplines that are found in map?

[vague barn]

You mean as preplaced map objects?

[minor linden]

Would be fun to launch a rocket at some poor guy going up a grapple

[sudden lodge]

Jeg håber du er tilfreds og du har lige lavet en fjende svensker.
But yes Denmark adopted it due to issues with MG3 in Afghanistan

[naive lintel]

yeah like on a building there's some gun that shoots a zipline that can be reel'd in/destroyed and repaired

[vague barn]

Jag är väldigt tillfreds, tack.
Seems odd to adopt the M60E6 as a replacement for it though. Do the Danish use the Minimi?

[naive lintel]

or like there's some grappling hooks kits that spawn in the map

[vague barn]

Eh, I'm skeptical about it. I feel like it's a little too open to abuse.

[minor linden]

Could actually be cool if it was like the weapon pickups in 4

Would def make it less abusable than something like a gadget

[pulsar parcel]

That kind of thing was a class gadget in the BF2 special forces expansion

[naive lintel]

Im sure it would be hell to design a level with these in mind, so if they just don't do it i wouldn't be mad

[ancient lark]

2042 had ziplines in sensible places.. those were fine

[vague barn]

Yeah, that's my concern as well after it was brought up earlier.

[ancient lark]

Would be interesting if those could be destroyed / repaired to help fortify

[sudden lodge]

I don’t know all I know is what I just told you, I guess they thought it was more reliable

[pulsar parcel]

It's not that bad actually. Just add a little more verticality. Taller buildings and that kind of thing

[vague barn]

Alright, thanks anyways, I've met my quota of learning something new for the day now.

[naive lintel]

IF they were in fixed spots that are thought well like the launchers and turrets in 4 and 1 it would be balanced. Good luck figuring that out tho

[vague barn]

I feel like the effort-effect is a bit too heavyy on the "effort" side to justify it but presuming it's done well and has restrictions applied to them, I'd be interested in seeing it but, like you, I wouldn't mind their absence.

[pulsar parcel]

You don't need to overthink grapples and ziplines. Just give players the tool and the verticality to use it. 2 story buildings are enough.

[vague barn]

The problem is, as BSoD (I think) mentioned earlier; how do you design a map when every level surface can be accessed and grappled onto?

Like how do you design cover against that sort of threat?

[ancient lark]

Not that we want to keep basing things on 2042.. but the Assault operator has a grapple and that didn't cause any major issues

[vague barn]

Idk man in my opinion McKay's grapple hook has caused a lot of issues.

[pulsar parcel]

Pretty much the same as every other map. You wouldn't need to change anything on Arica Harbor for example

[ancient lark]

and you have personal flying craft, multiple helos / aircraft that you can jump off of.. .and create spawn beacons in high to reach places.

[sudden lodge]

The only specific thing I know was that the reasoning was the MG3 was too long and unruly in house to house combat, and the M60 was shorter and easier to carry in comparison

[vague barn]

Fair enough

[vague barn]

I'd say a lot would have to change in the town on that map.

(If we're thinking of the same map)

[naive lintel]

yeah but in previous titles you couldn't "break" the sandbox so easily. You NEEDED a veichle at least to reach a specific point, so it was balanced

[pulsar parcel]

Why? We can already reach most of those rooftops. It would just give us access to them from different angles

[ancient lark]

That is fair, it happened much less frequently and thus limited the use/function of getting up high like that.

[vague barn]

Would it give more angles to approach from; yes, which isn't necessarily a good or bad thing.

[pulsar parcel]

I'd argue that it's exclusively a good thing. It makes it much harder to end up with 32 people on each side of a single door throwing grenades through and completely stalling out a map

[vague barn]

I don't see how 32 people on each side of a single door on that map would realistically happen.

As you mentioned, there's already a bunch of rooftops accessible through just normal methods.

[naive lintel]

i'd take that over 32 people switching to a grapple hook and it becoming a call of duty match. Changes the game too much

[pulsar parcel]

I think you misunderstood my statement. I was referring more to the bad parts of Locker and Metro where everyone on both teams gets clustered around 2-3 doors

[vague barn]

How would a grappling hook help on Locker and/or Metro though?

[pulsar parcel]

It wouldn't, but you could design a similar map which also has ways to get out and break deadlocks like that by adding an upper level accessible by grapple

[pulsar parcel]

Counterpoint, Don't use a McKay style grappling hook. Use a grappling hook that stays as a climbable rope for the team to use.

The 2042 grappling hook is much worse for the game than the BF2 SF grappling hook

[vague barn]

I think the easier way to just avoid the problem with grappling hooks is to just not have them. They're very situational and hard to design suitable maps with.

[naive lintel]

now you're cooking

[pulsar parcel]

It is absolutely not hard to design a map that you can use grappling hooks on

[vague barn]

Like, yeah, I could imagine a lot of useful cases, but I could also imagine a lot of abuse of them.

[pulsar parcel]

All you need is any level of direct verticality

[naive lintel]

a map as large and well made as those in bf3/4/1? I think it is

[pulsar parcel]

Not really. Imagine Ballroom Blitz, except with a ladder up to the roof on each side

[naive lintel]

yeah, impossible to defend

[vague barn]

That's not my point, my point is how do you provide cover on such levels when any opponent can get up on any surface and get a line of fire on you?

[pulsar parcel]

The same way they already do.

[vague barn]

Which is how exactly?

[pulsar parcel]

With walls that have a horizontal cover over the top of them called a "roof"

[wanton igloo]

Ballroom blitz one of my favorite all time maps.

[pulsar parcel]

Or objects that are slightly taller than the player that blocks line of sight from higher angles like storage containers, trains, concrete walls, etc.

[vague barn]

Okay, but how do you deal with approaches to said structures?

[pulsar parcel]

Or by the player recognizing that there are snipers in elevated locations and going prone

[ancient lark]

When I think of gadgets like that.. I am only thinking with Conquest mode in mind.

[vague barn]

Because reasonably you can't exactly have every map be FIBUA.

Or every part of every map for that instance.

[pulsar parcel]

Don't need it to be. Not every part of every map needs to be designed to maximize the benefits of a grappling hook. At the end of the day it's just a tool to let players get to places that are taller.

[vague barn]

"Going prone" is not a solution to snipers in elevated positions.

[pulsar parcel]

Yes... it is. You go prone behind something chest high and suddenly they can't see you anymore

[vague barn]

Eh, I just think it's more problem than it's worth.

[vague barn]

And just camp behind there for the rest of the match?

[pulsar parcel]

Do you even play these games?

[vague barn]

Yes, I do.

[pulsar parcel]

Not even asking about 2042 here. I mean BF3 and BF4 had tons of verticality

Did you just lock up on Siege of Shanghai?

Or silk road?

Dragon valley?

Karkand?

Caspian Border?

[vague barn]

No?

[pulsar parcel]

Firestorm?

All of those maps have elevated positions that can be reached and people snipe from

You could profitably use a grappling hook on all of them

with 0 changes

The issues you are raising are all solved issues

And as long as helicopters are in the game, you need to design with players using those elevated locations anyway

They get up there, place a spawn beacon and snipe for the whole game

[naive lintel]

yeah but are reachable on foot or with something that IS NOT on the kit. You are trying to solve problems that were never there

[pulsar parcel]

I'm not solving a problem. I'm giving a benefit. For the opportunity cost of not taking a grenade launcher or something similar, you get a tool that allows you to reach high places.

[hexed seal]

Who has the bonus package for Battlefield 5, Chapter 6

[severe mesa]

don't spam the question

[vague barn]

I think we just have different perceptions of the pros and cons of this stuff. I think it can and would be abused far too much, you don't.

Shush.

Anyways, I have to make something to eat.

[pulsar parcel]

The much stronger version of the tool already isn't. The version of a grappling hook that I want doesn't even let people zoom up the side of the building. It's a teamplay tool

[pulsar parcel]

It was good talking to you. I hope we can enjoy bf6 together regardless of what's in it

[naive lintel]

you'd have to make it balanced by having it destructable and limited use tho. I think we kinda want the same thing but are saying it in different terms

see ya in bf6

[pulsar parcel]

Yeah, like the player only gets 1 and would have to resupply in order to use it again. And the other team shooting the hook to destroy it is a good addition

[ancient lark]

I'd say, even up through 2042.. when you are up high like that.. you become chopper food. 8)

[pulsar parcel]

Nobody

Please stop asking

[hexed seal]

[sudden lodge]

The what?

[manic gate]

the bonus package for Battlefield 5, Chapter 6

[sudden lodge]

I know I don’t remember what it is exactly

[gritty fossil]

I know it wasn’t as popular but Hardline had this exact mechanic. You could bring a grapple or a zip line as a gadget and you could place them down for team traversal. They could also be destroyed quite easily.

[pulsar parcel]

It wasn't as popular because it was finicky as hell and just didn't work 80% of the time. I would at least want it to function

[ancient lark]

If you take the lineage that was BF:2 > BF:2 Special Forces. They added 6 or 7 new maps.. and all of those gadgets (grappel, zip line, gas grenade, flash grenade) and.. the game worked fine? So it didn't create some kind of issue. You just adapted and played like it was BF:2 + some really fun stuff.

Now.. those gadgets weren't backwards compatible.. so you could only use them in Special Forces Maps. So if a new game were made, with those in mind, it would be a non-issue just like it was in Special Forces and 2042. Sounds like hardline too, but I never played that.

Fine.. we'll go back to talking about the queue

😉

[pulsar parcel]

We could talk about boats

[minor narwhal]

Has anybody gotten any invites to the playtest that starts tomorrow?

[weary sandal]

sure

[mossy marten]

Suppression shouldn't affect spread or give visual recoil

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk

[gritty fossil]

So it just shouldn’t be a thing then is what you’re saying

I don’t know what else it would do if neither of those things. So just don’t have it in the game

[midnight dagger]

anybody get in yet? signed up the day it got announced

[mossy marten]

there's the suppression that DF has that makes the edges of your screen blurred slightly to know you're getting shot at

[mild girder]

No playtests yet, keep waiting

[midnight dagger]

signed up so quick that at the time, post was only 30 minutes old and i was like 7000th person in the que

[midnight dagger]

okie yeye

[mossy marten]

but yes, either ZERO suppression effects or just the blurred screen edges

[mild girder]

and i was one of the firsts , 20min or so before the trailer and site went officially up. didnt have to deal with a queue

[midnight dagger]

we need submarines, you can park the submarine, get out and enter an underwater base, where its like locker bf3, close quarters claustrophobic yk

[midnight dagger]

pretty much! i mean my wait time was literally 3 minutes on the clock lmaooo

[midnight dagger]

and like there is a tiny bit of port on the surface where you could use the same submarine to get to the port,
not using a submarine and trying to swim down or up between the underwater base will result in death as these two places are too far apart

imagine tiny submarine combat ingame, with torpedos and water physics, itll feel so much different than air to air combat

damn bro

[mild girder]

Either you are talking nonsense or ea did an oopsie, there are no Invites yet

All Playtest Signups that show up are NOT Battlefield Labs

[minor narwhal]

Must be a mistake

[wispy dagger]

Might not have been a mistake though

Maybe they’re pushing it back and accepting more people with the influx of signups

[midnight dagger]

additonally you could by choice choose to put one of the modifications on your gun that real life underwater guns have, to allow the firing pin to still function as usual.
this could add a layer of underwater conbat when diving inside. those who choose not to add the modificaton wont be able to use their guns underwater.

additionaly ramming players with tiny submarines!!!!! helllllllll yeahhhh

[wispy dagger]

Maybe they weren’t expecting the amount that did

[mild girder]

it was, you dont have to sign up for a different playtest to get invited. You already did the Sign up and will only get a Mail when invited which cleary says that you are invited

[midnight dagger]

i was defending bf like crazy in the insta comments who were all "dead game, shut yp n word"

[midnight dagger]

checks out, nice pfp my guy

[midnight dagger]

after the playercount and state of the game i imagine yes

[ancient lark]

NOICE

[mild girder]

ALL OTHER PLAYTEST INVITES THAT SHOW UP ARENT BATTLEFIELD

jesus

[minor narwhal]

lmao

[fleet robin]

this is sent to each user individually and can't be shared, breach of tos

[weary sandal]

i already reported him

https://tenor.com/view/realkimroro-police-gif-23236998

[lost gale]

If you don't get picked, just learn programming and get a job at Dice.
This way you also get access 👌🥲

That's what I'm gonna do if I don't get picked

Jk

[feral garden]

https://youtu.be/jgYYOUC10aM?si=eMGUieA_2BrehR42

[ancient lark]

Chef's Kiss.. perfect! 8)

[lost gale]

This

😂

[dim temple]

Is the playtesting homepage empty for anyone else? The BF Labs signup is not there anymore for me (slightly off topic but also the Skate sign up isn't there anymore since BF Labs got announced), is that because they made it that you can sign up successfully one time then it's gone or am i banned from these or something for some reason?

Can't find an answer anywhere in support or FAQ

[scenic oasis]

The playtests start tomorrow???

[feral garden]

Playtests are also blank for me, since BF Labs announcement my other playtests are also gone.

[dim temple]

Ok so it's not just me, super confusing, especially that there's no way to see what you're signed up for currently and no statuses like accepted, pending or whatever, hopefully they can update it a bit to make things clearer

[feral garden]

There is no info on when playtests start

[minor narwhal]

No it was something else

[scenic oasis]

Ah

[weary sandal]

it starts february 30th at 1pm

[nimble bridge]

Yes.

[feral garden]

I thought it was starting on Marchtober 32st?

[nimble bridge]

Meta guns:

• PP29
• SFAR
  Neither of them benefits from plus system

[feral garden]

All weapons benefit, and suffer from the plus system

Benefit - Extra ammo from additional mags
Suffer - Because of said extra mags for other ammo types, they reduce the pool of ammo per mag type

[pulsar parcel]

I liked the plus system. You have a weapon suitable for different parts of the map so you don't have to pick up someone else's weapon or burn a ticket when moving from an indoor cqb obj to a wider field objective

You're also never going to not have meta guns

[fleet robin]

i feel like this invalidates and reduces the importance of gun customisation

why bother tailoring a gun to your playstyle when you can just have all attachments for all scenarios all the time

[pulsar parcel]

How would a tool for gun customization invalidate or reduce the importance of the thing it's a tool for?

That's like saying a hammer invalidates nails

[nimble bridge]

SFAR already has like 240 rounds per ammo type, it would be overkill if it had like even 400 rounds with a single ammo type

Same goes for PP

I want plus system to stay just so it can prevent gunsmithing tumor to infect BF too, they should ditch different ammo types and even extended mags imo though

[pulsar parcel]

Because you only have 3 of each type of attachment. It's not full customization, but lets you not automatically lose in different situations

[fleet robin]

3 is plenty, there are pretty much only 3 or so good attachments in each category in the first place

and even then, 3 is a lot more than one lol

i just don't like the idea of everyone having everything whenever they need it

[pulsar parcel]

Why not?

[fleet robin]

sure you could let people carry 5 gadgets from different classes so they don't "automatically lose" when faced with something they didn't prepare for, but then why do we have loadouts in the first place? People are supposed to make a kit and deploy with it, if they run into something they're not prepared for that's part of the game. If i catch a dmr user off guard i should have the advantage for getting that close, not just have them switch sights, grip, barrel, and ammo type to immediately have an easier time countering me

[nimble bridge]

3 attachments are too much honestly, guns should have 2 attachments, a scope and a suppressor/compensator

[pulsar parcel]

To be fair, if you get the drop on them and they have time to swap the attachments on their weapon in order to level the playing field, they deserve the level playing field. They either need to have developed the skills to hot swap that fast, or have the situational awareness to let them get to a safe place to make that switch

[fleet robin]

just an example

could just as easily be a scenario where i get close, they see me and run behind cover, then pop out with a completely different setup

[pulsar parcel]

To your point though, carrying all the gadgets would be too much for sure. But minor stat changes on a weapon aren't as big a deal as hot swapping grenade types, which is why sunburst lost the grenade belt

[fleet robin]

i could be fine with switching a sight, or taking barrel attachments on/off, but barrel switches, ammo type switching, etc just aren't things that should be in battlefield imo

[pulsar parcel]

Ammo type is the easiest of all the switches you could do tho. It's just reloading

[fleet robin]

but it isn't just minor, sights and ammo type completely change what situation a person can tackle

[fleet robin]

yeah fair i was thinking about caliber changes

[pulsar parcel]

At least BF doesn't let you do that. That would be ridiculous.

[nimble bridge]

Good players mapped T to mouse wheel so they instantly change attachments on the fly with pressing 1-4

[fleet robin]

i mapped it to a thumb button

[nimble bridge]

I still use T, I'm in no hurry to change attachments or mags

[pulsar parcel]

Still T here as well

[safe moat]

Since my hand is fucking ginormous I can use T while running easily

[pulsar parcel]

Would you feel better if there was an animation for it that played in the background and queued while you were switching so it took a minimum amount of time, changing the math on when people could hot swap attachments?

[safe moat]

Depending on how long the animation is

[pulsar parcel]

Like the character pulling off the grip and putting on a new one

[fleet robin]

i think that would help keep it more balanced yeah

could be 5-10 seconds depending on what you're swapping

just so it's not something people can do on a whim, more in preparation for an engagement

[ancient lark]

Maybe 3 seconds per item swapped

[pulsar parcel]

Not quite that long. 1 second per attachment max.

A second is a long time

[ancient lark]

gotta plan.. gotta hide

[pulsar parcel]

People really underestimate how long time is in combat

[fleet robin]

this isn't cod, a second is hardly a hindrance, you'd switch every attachment in less time than it'd take an lmg to reload once

and again, if sitting out 5-10 seconds gets you killed, then i don't think you should've won the engagement in the first place

[pulsar parcel]

Well switching the ammo type would still be a full reload

[ancient lark]

I only really change scopes.. rarely even rail.. never barrel / ammo

[pulsar parcel]

Like I said, you're underestimating how long time actually is. 5 seconds is the full life cycle of a grenade. Think of how many times you throw a grenade and it feels like it takes forever to go off

And for anyone who wonders how you would switch a grip that fast, if you had one that had a spring loaded button that controlled the rail pin, you could hold the button and slide the grip off, grab the new grip and slide it on, then release the button on the new grip and it would be locked in place

It would work for sights on rails too

[vague barn]

But would it hold zero? 👀

[ebon beacon]

For scopes/sights? Yes. Maybe even suppressors and other muzzle attachments. I can suspend my disbelief enough for those. Ammo and barrel types though, that's pushing it. Like look at the M5's close combat rounds, your gun can magically switch from 6.5mm to 9mm on-the-fly? lol

[vague barn]

QD mounts are common but generally have disadvantages that aren't easily modelled in a game like Battlefield.

[pulsar parcel]

Nop

Not well at least

[vague barn]

And yeah, barrel lengths and different calibers is a no-no for me.

[feral garden]

Plus system encourages min/maxing weapons, which IMO is a bad thing.

It essentially makes you strive to have the perfect setup, and once youve found that for all scenarios (Close, medium and long range) to never return to customize that weapon again. A self hating gunsmith, with a goal to make you stop using it to smith guns.

[pulsar parcel]

That said, a sight on a gun near an explosion probably wouldn't hold zero very well either

[mossy marten]

Plus sustem should not come back

[pulsar parcel]

Counterpoint: If you don't have the plus system, you do exactly the same thing, but when you die, you switch guns to the gun with the appropriate setup.

[ebon beacon]

I don't think there has ever been a phrase more reductive/destructive to this franchise over the past 15+ years than "this isn't cod." who gives a shit about cod?

[fleet robin]

i understand how long it is, and that plays into how i see the plus system as a whole. If it's to be implemented, it shouldn't be done while running and gunning, it should have a serious time penalty. Someone who was shooting at medium range decides they want to go up close? Fine, swap a barrel attachment, different sight, whatever, but they'll be sitting there for a moment while they do it

[vague barn]

Absolutely agree with the right honorable BSoD. Once you have that set-up available you never need to touch it again whereas a semi-permanent system (e.g. BF4) forces you to engage with it.

[vague barn]

Yes, but you can't do it all in one life, which is sort of the point.

[silk vault]

Plus system sounds tricky to balance with these many sides to it

[pulsar parcel]

That's also my point. It forces you to burn a ticket just to switch to the appropriate weapon for going outside, or just accept that you'll be at a disadvantage

[fleet robin]

my point is battlefield isn't nearly as fast paced as cod, you're not slide cancelling and diving around corners to kill 5 people and get back up to run into the next group immediately after. There's zero need for such a short animation on attachment swaps

[vague barn]

Being at a universal advantage due to having the plus system is not a good idea in my opinion.

You should be forced to make compromises and not be able to switch in the field to make the optimal gun set up for every environment.

[pulsar parcel]

On an individual 1v1 level, it's much slower. But when you factor in the larger teams, the time between engagements and the player density, the game actually ends up being faster.

[feral garden]

Yes, the key point being that a decision you made (the config of your weapon) made you lose a fight or perform not as you needed it to. Resulting in you tuning your weapon to better suit your needs.

IMO allowing you to do this inside your soldiers life is too flexible, and makes the gun customization feel non-existant/boring. Especially in a game that is by design not single elimination

[pulsar parcel]

You aren't at a universal advantage tho. You are at a universal level playing field

[silk vault]

I don’t know if the plus system itself is the issue but the attachments in 2042 in general. Short barrel was really the best if a weapon had it

[feral garden]

My main issue with the plus system is not how good it is in combat, but how boring it makes weapon customization.

[vague barn]

Okay fine, you are at a universal level playing field, which is, in my view, bad and undesirable.

You shouldn't be able to on the fly adapt your weapon system to fit any environment. It removes an element of forethought and strategy.

[feral garden]

Its probably been 6 months since I added, or changed a single attachment on any weapon in 2042. The gunsmith menus are essentially a skin equipping screen for me now.

[mossy marten]

[vague barn]

Additionally, as the right honorable BSoD mentioned, it makes the customisation boring and uninteresting.

[pulsar parcel]

Honestly, that's mostly to do with the attachments available in the game more than the plus system itself. There's 2 archetype grips, laser, bipod, or launcher as underbarrel options spread through like 15 attachments

[fleet robin]

same, plus system removes any need to touch the customisation menu more than once (after you've got all the attachments unlocked, that is)

[mossy marten]

then again.
99% of the time i run the same attachments on all guns (in older BFs), so i skip the equip screen either way
Unless i change the gun i'm playing with

[pulsar parcel]

And once you like the optics you like, you pick the short, mid, and long range optics you want and leave them at that.

[feral garden]

Plus systesm basically has the same issue as specialists had before being put in a class system with locked gadgets. It encourages min/maxing...and makes the overall gameplay elements uninteresting. If you never have to make a choice/decision...then im just bored and repeating the same loops over and over

Pre class system re-addition, you just had a bunch of Raos with stingers, Falck and Angels with rocket launchers...then the odd Mackay.

[pulsar parcel]

But the same thing happens in bf4 and bf3. You set up your weapon for how you want to run it, then just leave it. If you're going cqb, you take a different weapon. If you're going long range, you take a different weapon. You rarely modify the weapon you are currently using to take it in a different configuration when you respawn

[silk vault]

Would limiting the system down to only 2 per category but only for muzzles, under barrels and scopes still be to versatile?

[vague barn]

In my opinion, yes.

[fleet robin]

any version of the plus system is too versatile to me

[spice bramble]

The plus system is quite the hot topic today

[pulsar parcel]

You missed grappling hooks

[spice bramble]

No, I was here

[ancient lark]

Hehe.. just was playing 2042 last night and that question dawned on me. 8)

[spice bramble]

I have nothing better to do

xd

[feral garden]

Not really, players would still end up (Under 2042s design) just equipping the best 2 mags/barrels...and the one red dot, one ranged scope

[ancient lark]

I've thrived in both systems.. so I was curious.

[pulsar parcel]

They do that anyway without the plus system. Feel free to go look for guides on meta weapons in bf3 and bf4. They're there

[spice bramble]

nvm namedropping

BF3 had meta attachments?

There were lke 5 in total

lol

[vague barn]

I don't agree with this, I modify my weapons in BF4 quite a lot, I don't use one set up for everything nor do I use one gun for everything, which imo is a better idea than being able to set your gun up for everything on the fly.

[feral garden]

Yes, but you are never really having the best of all worlds type weapons. Weapon crafting in BF3 was mostly about making yourself effective at midrange, with ok to average performance in CQC and long range.

2042 allows you to stock attachments to make you excel in all areas of combat.

[silk vault]

That’s pretty true

[pulsar parcel]

And I modify my plus menu setups in 2042 exactly as often as I modify my BF4 setups. Different strokes for different folks

[silk vault]

I feel like the system is one of those things where the next game would be fine without it imo but I can see the idea behind it

[feral garden]

2042 goes a step worse tho...cos not only can you excell at all ranges, you can also hot swap on suppressors, and thermal sights. Past games you would have to use a thermal sight, and reap both the benefits (thermal imagery) but also the pitfalls (Poor visibility).. 2042 allows you to bypass all pitfalls by letting you swap to another sight/scope

[pulsar parcel]

This is true

[vague barn]

I honestly can't see any good reason to have the plus system at all other than pleasing tryhards.

[tepid plinth]

Plus system begone

[vague barn]

It just makes no sense, the system or the implementation.

[tepid plinth]

Even if you only had say, scope switching that’d be too much

But it’s a leftover of their ‘player agency over balance’ design approach at launch

[pulsar parcel]

So the question I have is why are you objecting to being able to round out your personal abilities to handle different engagements? From a player standpoint, this is entirely a benefit.

[tepid plinth]

If the next has learnt anything about how to approach such a topic, I reckon it’ll be gone next time round

[pulsar parcel]

Except it doesn't directly impact balance

[feral garden]

Again tho...like the vehicle call in system...the plus system feels like a half finished version of itself.

Where the vehicle call in system should be reliant on points gain in round to call a vehicle...the plus system feels like it should be based on some type of rating/value system. Where X scope/mag has a cost...and you cant exceed that cost on your loadout.

[pulsar parcel]

You may as well say the ability to open doors affects balance because if players can open and close doors, then someone next to a door has an advantage in a firefight because they can close it

[manic gate]

turn the 'plus' system into a minus system, you're only able to hotswap ammo with a delay

[tepid plinth]

Constraint then, better way to put it. Give everyone everything and there’s no element of choice and sacrifice

[manic gate]

maybe they can have other types of ammo only be replenished by support too

[ancient lark]

I don't hate the idea of a support crate / reload crate allows you the swap.. IF on the fly were removed

[feral garden]

Angel used to allow this...kinda still does but its kinda clunky

[vague barn]

That's not even close to an equal comparison.

[feral garden]

Who remembers when owning a flag meant only your team could use the automatic doors? Wow that was annoying

[pulsar parcel]

My point is that players moving between parts of the map can be placed at significant disadvantages because of their weapon setup, either taking a dmr into a building or taking an smg into an open space. The plus system can easily be balanced so that the dmr is never equal to an smg in cqb and the smg is never equal to the dmr at distance, but that the gap in balance can be reduced.

[pulsar parcel]

No, it's an extension of the point movement lover was arguing. Player agency increases (can control doors) which gives an advantage, thereby affecting balance.

[manic gate]

I hated that

[feral garden]

Then you have things like the BSV-M that completely breaks balance between weapon classes like you state here. 😄

[silk vault]

Wouldn’t it be against the core weapon mechanics in Battlefield reducing the gap between guns?

[pulsar parcel]

That's an issue with the weapon, not the plus system

[feral garden]

Its both

Its a weapon designed to use the plus system

Not simply a weapon

[pulsar parcel]

All the weapons in 2042 were designed to use the plus system

[silk vault]

That thing on launch was the best Smg AR sniper rifle I ever used

[feral garden]

You know what I mean. That specific weapon is made to exploit the plus system, by design

[pulsar parcel]

If you have a weapon that dominates in all areas, it's an issue with the weapon, not the plus system

If it was an issue with the plus system, all weapons would be equally dominant

[feral garden]

No, but it specifically was made to be exploitive of the system. No other weapon really behaves the same

[pulsar parcel]

Which means there is an error in the design of the weapon

[heady thorn]

Plus System can turn weapons into everything guns IMO. Should've been scopes only

[feral garden]

Yes, it is a mistake in design of the weapon.

But a mistake made possible by the system

Double edged swords and all that

[silk vault]

So BSVM on the fly could turn into a DMR or a SMG on the fly. Mean while in the older system you are kinda locked into one role

[feral garden]

Its just that no other weapons really change their characteristice as much, with the swap from attachments to attachment, mag to mag

[pulsar parcel]

So if the attachments had different statistics to reduce very long range and close range performance, leaving it as a mid-long range weapon it would be fine

[silk vault]

Yeah. So that was really strong but at least if you kept those characteristics but without the plus system you are only locked into either a DMR or an SMG

[feral garden]

M5A3 for example can swap to the short barrel/close quarters ammo and go from 700 RPM, to 950 RPM. but the BSV can go from 300 RPM > 1100RPM with the same swap. It can then swap to being a 2 shot headshot at range DMR, with a 4x thermal scope. Its too versatile.

[vague barn]

I don't understand why this is even a discussion that needs having. The ability to convert an assault rifle into an de facto SMG or into a de facto DMR on the fly seems like such an obvious negative to me, I just can't understand it.

[silk vault]

Or swap to high power rounds for it be a very awful 650 rpm weapon

[pulsar parcel]

Which means they overtuned it at close rance

[pulsar parcel]

I don't understand why you say it's a negative.

[steel stirrup]

They just need to release more guns like in BF4 so you can choose your preferred rate of fire etc... having attachment in 2042 makes sense since there's so few guns.

[heady thorn]

Being able to do it on the go is where i don't like it :p

[feral garden]

Yeah, but if the plus system didnt exist. This weapon would be totally fine in my book. As at the touch of a button, you wouldnt be able to swap between weapon versatility modes. You'd have to live with your choice.

[vague barn]

I probably should have inserted that detail somewhere.

[silk vault]

It’s kinda fun. But leaning to the probably shouldn’t have it cuz it’s also a balancing nightmare

[pulsar parcel]

It still wouldn't be fine, it would still be an op mess in close-mid range or very decent at long range and would still be a meta weapon

[fleet robin]

i don't like invoking the i word, but to me a part of it is also immersion. 3 sights, 3 grips, 3 barrels, 3 ammo types all swappable and usable in the blink of an eye is pushing the game-ness of battlefield a bit too far imo

[vague barn]

I just can't see how having a one weapon that you can modify on the fly with near impunity is in any way fun or balanced.

[pulsar parcel]

It's more balanced because the power differential between players is more even

regardless of equipped weapon

[feral garden]

Not at all. the Vector or AC9 is still a better choice in CQC, SKS better choice long range. The reason the BSV is OP in 2042 is because of the plus system

[vague barn]

Likewise, if there had been an animation for changing them I would have been less opposed to it, but still opposed to it.

[pulsar parcel]

Likewise, knowing that I can enter engagements without simply being out-powered at different ranges is more fun to me

[fleet robin]

yeah animations were discussed a bit earlier, i'd be more accepting of it with long animations per attachment but would still rather not have the system at all

[feral garden]

I dont care about the plus system when it comes to immersion. I just think it makes weapon crafting boring AF haha

[fleet robin]

that's the main problem for me, immersion is just a small part of it

given battlefield lacks immersion in other areas

[vague barn]

Knowing you don't need to give any forethought into your choice of weapon is fun to you?

[feral garden]

Next step is vehicle plus system!

[pulsar parcel]

It overperforms with close quarter subsonics and short suppressor in close range. Nobody gets to know where you are so you can hose down an entire team

[fleet robin]

don't give them any ideas

[vague barn]

Hell yeah, I better be able to switch from a 120mm APFSDS-T cannon to a 25mm autocannon.

[silk vault]

Switching from AP to HE and vice versa 😳

[vague barn]

Just so I don't get outplayed in a fight.

[feral garden]

AT and AA missiles at the same time on the wildcat!!!!

[pulsar parcel]

I do give forethought into my weapon of choice. I get to choose which weapon I want to play with and not have to worry that sector 1 of the breakthrough map is mid-long range, then sector 2 is cqc indoors.

[feral garden]

Why require choice!!!!

[tepid plinth]

giving me bad memories of when tank and wildcat was in the same slot

[vague barn]

I'm sorry to have to say this, and don't take this as a personal jab at yourself, but your category of player is probably the worst out of all.

[pulsar parcel]

Casual?

[feral garden]

I hope for vehicles in the next game...they arent afraid to just let vehicles have passive passenger seats. You dont need to give every seat a weapon or launcher haha

[silk vault]

Getting destroyed by air and my wildcat is running the 57mm cannon

[vague barn]

Dumbed down.

[pulsar parcel]

Casual battlefield player for 20 years?

almost anyway

[vague barn]

I don't really care about how long you have played Battlefield, you can still be a poor judge of game mechanics.

As you have proven to me.

[fleet robin]

having to deal with the downsides of your loadout are just part of the experience imo, if you have a dmr and get into close quarters you better have some good aim or a reliable sidearm

[silk vault]

^

[vague barn]

Exactly this.

[feral garden]

Yeah, plus system to an extent also made sidearms irrelivant.

[pulsar parcel]

The plus system doesn't change that reality. DMRs don't out perform assault rifles, shotguns, and smgs at close range

[vague barn]

BSVM vs M5A3 disproves your point.

[pulsar parcel]

BSVM isn't a dmr

[vague barn]

Then what is it?

[fleet robin]

it closes the gap significantly, reducing the punishment players get for putting themselves in scenarios unsuitable to their loadout

[pulsar parcel]

a mistake

[vague barn]

A non-answer, okay.

[pulsar parcel]

If you treat the BSVM like an assault rifle, it will work better than treated as a dmr

[feral garden]

The VCAR and the G248 also are as good, if not better than ARs in close/medium. Its not only the BSV

[pulsar parcel]

The VCAR isn't a dmr either. It's a close range weapon. Nothing "marksman" about it

[silk vault]

That’s also a great question, should DMR’s or Marksman rifles have full auto?

[vague barn]

No, with very few edge cases.

[pulsar parcel]

DMRs should have recoil and handling to suit their class

BSVM and G248 don't

[silk vault]

I agree

[fleet robin]

no

[pulsar parcel]

They should have what they have irl, but with the drawbacks that comes with

[silk vault]

So Definitely don’t add full auto DMRs in the next game please

[vague barn]

So basically because they don't fit your argument, you're disqualifying them?

[pulsar parcel]

Because they don't behave like DMRs, I'm not going to treat them like DMRs

Like the VCAR

[silk vault]

I don’t know if that’s how it works

[pulsar parcel]

which is almost entirely set up for cqb

It only got a sight for mid range when they added the 5x

[vague barn]

That

No.

Just no.

[silk vault]

You’re forgetting that these weapons are places in a CLASS for a reason I think

VCAR and BSVM are Marksman weapons

[pulsar parcel]

You're definitely forgetting that how a weapon is used is determined more by it's PERFORMANCE than it's class

[vague barn]

What you treat a weapon as has no bearing on what they are.

[pulsar parcel]

And that VCAR is best used in cqb, and BSVM and G248 both work best as assault rifles

[silk vault]

So if I’m using the M5A3 with high power and single fire is it a DMR?

[pulsar parcel]

Closer to one than the BSVM and G248 are in default setups

Though it doesn't outperfrom the DM7