Hollow Knight - Silksong

[atomic ferry]

bro spoiling me

[keen lion]

Vanilla / Default / HDR Look

Vanilla / Default / HDR Look

[subtle mantle]

@keen lion you still in act 2?

[keen lion]

act3

[subtle mantle]

The issue was talking about a while ago should he viable now if you want to look

“Issue”

[sullen forge]

did you achieve the HDR look via a custom preset?

[keen lion]

it's a button in the mod

but yes

[sullen forge]

oh I never noticed these buttons before, that's neat

I think I'll be using the HDR Look one moving forward

[silk loom]

wow i normally dont like hdr look so much but its pretty stunning here

[atomic ferry]

might wanna pin that

[stiff valley]

Tried this and it looks a lot better

Especially when you're using certain abilities

[harsh iron]

sorry i'm a bit confused, is the .bundle the same as a .addon?

[stiff valley]

No it's a texture you replace in your game files

It's buried somewhere deep, sorry I don't remember the exact path

[harsh iron]

oooh very nice! ty 😄

[stiff valley]

Very nice looking

[silk loom]

...\Hollow Knight Silksong_Data\StreamingAssets\aa\StandaloneWindows64\atlases_assets_assets\sprites\_atlases

[keen lion]

@thick moss ^ glow textures debanded

[thick moss]

i was applying 5 bit dithering exclusively to it, it was working decently

this will fix it completely though

hopefully the devs will

too

[keen lion]

it's in multiple shaders

i wrote team cherry with the name of the shader

did a bug filing

the mod process seems easy, which is dump with UABEA to png, mod in photoshop, upload png back

[thick moss]

they are probably the top 50 most email people on earth these days

[sleek lantern]

i wonder how 3 people answer emails

[left karma]

more like 1

Matthew Griffin is the only PR guy

[sleek lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/delete-erase-not-worth-forget-it-clean-slate-gif-8510937

[shell jasper]

@keen lion Start of Act 3

The blue on the bottom of the "black vines", it's clipping ?

[keen lion]

Negative values maybe. Is it bone bottom?

[shell jasper]

Yes, also saw it a bit in other areas, always these black vines but not in every areas it seems

[dusty pelican]

why is hornet green is this old build? it was fixed i thought

[shell jasper]

It's "fixed" if you increase the saturation clip to 100 (and highlight clip or smth ?)
but afaik it desaturates everything that's HDR so... I kept it at new default (50 saturation clip and 0 highlight clip)

Even if it's a 2D game with "sprites", the lighting is smooth so it makes sense it gradually affect everything, unlike some old GBA game or whatever, where characters look like stickers ontop of the world

[subtle mantle]

this was the issue i wanted to share before you hit act 3

[dusty pelican]

https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1030300/view/503962497384974197?l=english

yall see this yet?

"Added Dithering effect option in Advanced video settings. Reduces colour banding but can slightly soften the appearance of foreground assets. Defaults to 'Off'."

[atomic ferry]

yeh

[agile crypt]

If it's standard dithering it destroys fine details in textures

[keen lion]

still waiting on xbox version to drop

apparently microsoft didn't pay enough

[keen lion]

called Custom/ScrollTexture (not a Unity shader)

actually, just NaNs in the render. i'm wondering from where

seems from bloom

something special about that shader

pushed a fix, should be fine. draws that one shader with saturate()

the other custom texture is tiled fog, so i have to trek all the back to the citadel for that one as well

[honest thorn]

vignette slider is nonfunctional in today's build

[keen lion]

if that's all, that's a win.

still waiting on xbox drop

[honest thorn]

i checked every other slider quickly and didn't notice anything else off

[keen lion]

green hornet in vanilla

[keen lion]

i'm at that point in hollow knight games were you every hit every wall in the map, or just start pulling in the wikis

[keen lion]

i'm free

[gleaming flint]

ayyyyyyyyy

congrats!

No more spoilers for you.

[keen lion]

never got the xbox patch

final boss was alright. i'm sure they'll make something harder in DLC

[atomic ferry]

100% means literally 100% as in done everything there is?

[agile crypt]

wdym

gamepass version not updated ?

[dusty pelican]

just got a message from the discord about it so maybe it's on all platoforms now

[left karma]

some things are not required for hundo

relics/cylinders are not, all crests upgraded are not

neither are mementos

[atomic ferry]

Ah ok

Thx

[keen lion]

causes extra banding since it flattens to 8bit

more a blur effect

[keen lion]

yeah, just makes stuff blurry, doesn't really address color banding you'll see with 16bit

off / vanilla

just fuzzy

[keen lion]

no bueno

[keen lion]

vignette is fine for me

[mellow obsidian]

From some of the messages, I realized that there will be some kind of fix for RenoDx? And one more question for SDR TV, will you need to select the SDR mode in the RenoDx panel or do you need to change some parameters?

[keen lion]

it should boot in SDR if your display doesn't support HDR. you shouldn't have to adjust anything if it's just an SDR display

[honest thorn]

does look fixed with latest snapshot, i swear it wasnt doing anything yesterday though lol

[keen lion]

be warned that vignette, i think, is also like when the game does an effect to darken around hornet

so flat 0 is probably not a good idea

[honest thorn]

i was keeping it at 67 because i'm on an ultrawide and it's very strong at the edges there

[keen lion]

silksong stole this shader: https://github.com/crosire/reshade-shaders/blob/225ec03091e4146147895b0f2c667ab606327fc9/Shaders/Deband.fx

[atomic ferry]

lul?

[agile crypt]

i soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo expected it

[honest thorn]

wait what are they using it for

is that what theyre using for the ingame dithering setting

[keen lion]

yes

[mellow obsidian]

Please tell me, why do I need a file with the pdb extension?

[keen lion]

You do not. That's for debugging crashes.

[mellow obsidian]

I used to use the addon from here :
https://github.com/clshortfuse/renodx/discussions/230
but this new one is an improved version of the addon? FRom here :
https://github.com/clshortfuse/renodx/releases/tag/snapshot
Or is the file following the link from the discussion the most optimal?

And another question, what is the difference between Stable and Repo build? Is Repo the newest version of the mod?

[keen lion]

Repo, release, snapshot are the same.

Stable is the last known working version.

[worthy hollow]

this used to happen to me back in the day with a logitech g510 keyboard. This predated MPOs. I think windows chokes if there are a lot of separate volume adjustment requests (I'm blanking on a better word)

shit, quick google search and maybe it started happening literally when MPOs were introduced

looking at an image of this keyboard makes me feel so old...

[shell jasper]

Yeah I get a stutter when it appears and when it disappear
But it's because my monitor use DSC, so I have no MPO (unless 5000 series) (so when this appear, I get into composited mode 🤢 )

[gleaming flint]

Fucking MPOs.

Genuinely happy that I don't lose my MPOs cause of DSC.

[onyx zealot]

my DP2.1a (UHBR20) monitor can do 4k240hz@10bit w/o DSC 😼

[atomic ferry]

at 400 nit 10%

[wise sail]

İs renodx better than luma hdr?

[dusty pelican]

personal preference

i like reno cause the actual bright parts are a lot nicer and don't clip like crazy

but overall i think the luma mod peaks are brighter which i kinda like but it is itm

more you can do with renodx too

[odd karma]

Has anyone tried DLDSR to downsample 8k to 4k ? Settings seem to read 8k120 resolution but after I apply it, it resets to 4k120. Maybe a reach, but thought I'd ask here

[atomic ferry]

The game looks super clean in 4k already due to the artstyle, no? Atleast from the small amount I’ve played

[odd karma]

It does yes. Thought that maybe I could get even higher clarity with this or at least test a side to side to know if it's worth it.

[atomic ferry]

Fair, i mean i can try later but im not really expecting anything

[shell jasper]

8K to 4K would be DSR 4x, not dldsr.

Pretty sure you can't use DSR/DLDSR if your monitor use DSC.

But yeah this is completely useless, as the issue is the game having blurry textures
Using cas or a similar sharpen shader would work better

[odd karma]

Yeah made jt work, but seems almost like there is no difference. Ty anyway

[atomic ferry]

Not really surprising yeah

2d Sprite game really doesn’t benefit from this

[mellow obsidian]

@keen lion Please tell me what is the effect of replacing the Core Glows Debanded texture? What should I pay attention to after the replacement, where should I look to feel the difference?

[keen lion]

#1413213618958372935 message this harsh banding on the character glows

[mellow obsidian]

Thank you for your response. Could you please tell me if texture replacement is currently relevant and makes sense?

[keen lion]

yes, you should always use it since vanilla hasn't fixed the tetxures

[smoky echo]

hello! excellent work with the hdr mod and the core_glows modded textures, the game is greatly improved with these

I've found this curious issue, it happens immediately after using focus with the ||beast crest||

initially I thought it was an intentional effect, but then I realized it looks glitchy. I also tried with the vanilla version, and it doesn't happen. I'm refering to the blue / green pixels that appear near the dark areas

[keen lion]

What version is the addon? Says on the Addon tab in Reshade

[smoky echo]

0.2025.928.1352

[keen lion]

I'll check it out. I 100 the game so probably a shader I'm missing

[smoky echo]

Thanks!

It could be tricky to find, as it appears for a very brief time

[keen lion]

should be fine since i'm sure when you pause the effect is still active

[smoky echo]

Ah, good point

This framework / toolset is awesome, and the things you can do with it are amazing, I'm gonna play with it a bit more 😎

[mellow obsidian]

Hello. I playing Silksong with this mod and replace texture , build version beta and i saw map desig and it so weird , this line look not cool

[keen lion]

that's vanilla

the game looks like that

[mellow obsidian]

For some reason, the lines on the map are kind of intermittent and small. In the first part, the map was normal. When you move the map away , it looks fine , but it 's worth zooming in ..Maybe you need to buy something to make the lines clearer like in the first part? Is this how it's supposed to be, or is it a glitch?

[keen lion]

that's how it's supposed to be. you're missing a game item

[mellow obsidian]

Is that really how the map should look?:) I was shocked after the first part, I thought it was some kind of graphics bug.
So after buying a certain item, the card will look normal, right?
By the way, I set the vignette to 25, I play in sdr mode as SDR TV. When the vignetee was at 70 ( initially ) , the upper part of the level was too darkened .

[keen lion]

yes, it is. you need to sit at bench for it to update

https://www.destructoid.com/how-to-find-maps-quill-and-compass-in-hollow-knight-silksong/

[keen lion]

messed up my own tonemappass logic. shouldn't have adjusted neutral sdr. should have left it alone. i did the game's custom brightness and saturation on neutral, which breaks the untonemapped/neutral_sdr ratio, causing the delta near 0 to blow up

made it harder on myself

"trust the science"

[keen lion]

@smoky echo fix pushed to repo

[onyx sparrow]

What power mode do u use i just use H.P

I end up having to inject reshade globally (through sk) most of the times for reno to work. If iam injecting sk globally

One thing i dont understand fully is frame pacing hmm

[onyx sparrow]

Whats the relation between frame pacing n latency

[smoky echo]

🔥 works beautifully! I just tested it

[onyx sparrow]

That makes so much sense , everything is clicking in place now thx lol

Interesting also does windows power mode affect any of this just curios
Also ig for a game like silk song its stable frame pacing > low latency?

also one thing that iam trying to figure out is
on amd systems or if u just dont want to use reflex
is it still better to cap ur fps below ur refresh rate to enable VRR for games like silk song for an example?

Is ulti perf a gimmick (on windows) or does it actually help? I just use high perf 99.9% of the time

I see hmm
ur talking about VRR Flickering correct?

also stable frame pacing is achieved ig when theres no stutters and stuff correct?

I use sk / riva tuners frame time graph usually

SK gives a lot of options on what u want to measure irc

alr thx

ah ic alr

U mean reflex low latency mode
or overal low latency is required? if u dont want to suffer

[onyx sparrow]

yeah true thx

[smoky echo]

would you find this useful? is it ok to create a pull request? @keen lion

I didn't manage to increase the resolution (this was my original plan), it's much harder than expected. but a quick shader edit was pretty straightforward. the slider only fades between blurred / original texture, it doesn't change the blur technique

[slim roost]

Gah, this bull* right here is responsible for most of the banding in the game 😕
Why couldn't they ship such an important asset uncompressed?

Seems the consensus is we solve banding by post-processing the final image rather than touching up or replacing the textures that are actually causing it? 🙂

Why do devs keep doing this crap? 🙂

[silk loom]

yeah its awful

check pins

anyway has anyone else had a little green thing appear in the top left?

its part of reshade

[keen lion]

Yeah, we replaced it and repacked it in Unity format. Hollow Knight 1 has the same issue

It's not compression. They screwed up the gradient in Photoshop

[keen lion]

Likely a reshade fx that is taking a while to load and/or crashing

[keen lion]

#1413213618958372935 message check with alpha channel and you'll see how botched it is

[silk loom]

Oh thanks that would make sense

[hollow nova]

some issues with the shaders

i finished the game with luma,so i went to try with renodx

(i found the issues is darktable UCS)

[keen lion]

darktable is known to be broken

it's not default so you'd have to go out of your way for that

[subtle mantle]

you just replace the file in the game folder, right? cause I'm for sure still seeing banding at the edge

[silk loom]

It's technically not banding at the edge

I know what you mean

It's just that the alpha doesn't have a soft falloff at the edge

[stiff valley]

Use film grain and be happy

[keen lion]

i can probably make some convoluted system to upgrade the texture and resolution when a shader tries to right to it. i think there are only two pixel shaders for blur? one to generate and one to composite?

[slim roost]

This AddOn causes a crash when fast traveling, dunno if that's a known problem?
ReShade doesn't handle the Media Foundation SwapChains safely it seems.

MF is used for FMV playback.

SK has special handling of this to ignore it and prevent any problems:

10/07/2025 14:39:13.642: [DLL Loader]   ( UnityPlayer.dll              ) loaded '                                                                                                          mfplat.dll' <  LoadLibraryW> { '            UnityMain' }
10/07/2025 14:39:13.643: [DLL Loader]   ( UnityPlayer.dll              ) loaded '                                                                                                     mfreadwrite.dll' <  LoadLibraryW> { '            UnityMain' }
10/07/2025 14:39:13.643: [DLL Loader]   ( UnityPlayer.dll              ) loaded '                                                                                                              Mf.dll' <  LoadLibraryW> { '            UnityMain' }
10/07/2025 14:39:13.710: [   DXGI   ] [!]                     CreateDXGIFactory         (     IDXGIFactory4, 6acde490h)                          -- [ mfplat.dll                <                      MFTEnum2>, tid=0xde4c ]
10/07/2025 14:39:13.714: [   DXGI   ] [!]                     CreateDXGIFactory         (     IDXGIFactory4, 6acde490h)                          -- [ mfplat.dll                <                      MFTEnum2>, tid=0xde4c ]
10/07/2025 14:39:13.733: [   DXGI   ] [!]                     CreateDXGIFactory         (     IDXGIFactory4, 6acde2f0h)                          -- [ mfplat.dll                <                      MFTEnum2>, tid=0xde4c ]
10/07/2025 14:39:13.785: [   DXGI   ] [!]                     CreateDXGIFactory2        (0x0000,      IDXGIFactory7, 6f67e620h)                  -- [ nvwgf2umx.dll             <                   NVDEV_Thunk>, tid=0x8a04 ]
10/07/2025 14:39:13.785: [   DXGI   ] [@]  Return: S_OK  -  < CreateDXGIFactory2 >
10/07/2025 14:39:18.163: [  D3D 11  ]  * Ignoring Media Foundation D3D11 Device.
10/07/2025 14:39:18.163: [   DXGI   ] [!] D3D11CreateDeviceAndSwapChain (Flags=0x0)                                                              -- [ d3d11.dll                 <       D3DPerformance_EndEvent>, tid=0x101e4 ]
10/07/2025 14:39:18.163: [  D3D 11  ]  <~> Preferred Feature Level(s): <0> - N/A

[keen lion]

i 100% the game without issues

i'd imagine it's a reshade issue, since the addon itself doesn't mess with that, unless swapchain upgrade to 10bit would be a problem

[smoky echo]

Yep, I think. But the shader used for compositing is also used in another place. It could get tricky, and I'm not sure it's worth the effort. On the other hand I tried modding using bepinex / harmony, and it was much easier to increase the resolution, I already have pretty rough but functional mod

[keen lion]

yeah, that might be better external. somebody on nexus mods said the mod didn't work with bepinex

the logic would be to find when the shader is drawn, then take the render target and assign it a special cloning logic (ResourceUpgradeTarget) then ask for it to clone.

[subtle mantle]

@slim roost do you find global injection works for this game? This game the original hollow knight only worked with local for me

[smoky echo]

Odd. Bepinex and RenoDX, mod+devkit worked for me with no issues. In fact, I actually used the dekvit to confirm that the HarmonyPatch I wrote for increasing the resolution works properly

[shell jasper]

Yeah I also use local inject for that game
with ReShade64.dll alongside
It was freezing with global +renodx loaded through reshade as sk plugin iirc

[mellow obsidian]

@keen lion Hello. Please tell me what needs to be included in Reshade or in the addon in order to see in real time the difference between the Vanilla version and the applied mod. I want to compare it for myself. That is, the screen is divided in half and the difference is visible.

[atomic ferry]

dont think you can do it divided, thats a feature in LUMA

[mellow obsidian]

Ok . I just saw a video with a Luma mod for Deus Ex, I thought maybe there was such an opportunity.

[atomic ferry]

maybe if Shortfuse wants to make something like that for Renodx in the future but Im not aware he mentioned any such plans so far

[sharp ivy]

can't be done in a lot of games

[keen lion]

Feature wouldn't really work right since the majority of the mod is upgrading textures. You can't upgrade half of a texture.

[sharp ivy]

cause of lutbuilders

[keen lion]

You can simulate with Reshade before after fx

[sharp ivy]

you could quantize to 8 bit

[keen lion]

Doesn't work for how it does blending.

[sharp ivy]

but you'd have to do it for every upgraded texture

[keen lion]

The vanilla/off is already kinda inaccurate but anything truly accurate is going to be extra complicated in code and kill performance

[tawny solar]

I feel like I saw those title screen issues once already, not sure how to fix it anymore though

[keen lion]

what are your settings? that looks really brightened

[tawny solar]

putting saturation clip to 100 gets rid of the weird blue and red lines. they also only seem to appear in the title menu from what I could gather

[keen lion]

Does it go away with Vanilla option?

What graphics card?

If on Nvidia 50 series did you force anisotropic filtering?

[tawny solar]

it does go away with Vanilla. Am on an AMD RX 7800XT and on Linux if that matters. I've played another hour or two and have not seen similar stuff in-game, so it is really minor and maybe just some stuff with my setup

[mellow obsidian]

I want to say that the last build for RenoDx is very good. I paid attention first of all to the display of the color of the Hornet cape. It looks better than before , there is no fading .

By the way, I'm using the Snapshot build, and I see that the Night Build was updated 10 hours ago. But the descriptions are the same, and what changes in the end between them?

[onyx zealot]

https://github.com/clshortfuse/renodx/commits/main/

last update for silksong was 3 days ago according to GitHub commits

[keen lion]

does it go away with scene grading or hue clip? i would need to pinpoint where it's happening

[tawny solar]

scene grading to 0 gets rid of it, hue clip to 0 almost eliminates the blueish but does nothing to the redish shapes

also have to revise my statement: saturation clip at 100 does not get rid of it, it just lessens far enough that I didn't see it without my glasses on

also let me know if you prefer for me to @ you in here

[keen lion]

can you try this build?

i think i found it actually

bad division

this should probably fix it

[tawny solar]

sadly still the same. this is with all settings default

gimme a minute, my screenshots won't load

and this is with tonemapper changed to vanilla

[keen lion]

can you try this one?

i think i have to nuke my save to get that screen again

[tawny solar]

sadly that's one of the middle game startscreens, I can send you my save if you want. I just looked at the initial startscreen and that one was okay

oh, not even necessary. you can change menu styles under the Extra option in main

some things did change though:

that was not there with the older build

yeah, went back to snapshot and: main menu screen Silksong is fine, main menu screen Citadel of song has lines, in-game is fine again

[keen lion]

hmm, i didn't find it. i'm on xbox version. maybe i'm blind. already nuked my saves and it was the same intro

i backed up my save files, but won't restore at all

[tawny solar]

maybe version differences?

and I sure hope I am not responsible for you losing your save 🥹

[keen lion]

i'll get it back, but don't know how to unlock menu styles

but if you're getting at the bench i can go there

[tawny solar]

that's the bench in the first church up in Songlcave

like I said, those lines appeared with your new file you send here in Discord

it's normal in the snapshot build

I have to get some work done now, I'll check in later. thanks a lot for looking into it 💙

also gotta correct myself: First Church = First Shrine

[keen lion]

well, save file isn't going to get fixed anytime soon but i can replicate

oklab no bueno for this. ictcp fine

er

okay, doing it another way

[atomic ferry]

this specific pic looks cool tho xd

[keen lion]

i'm dumb. i've worked this gamut compression for luts out with hades2 already

[atomic ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/ace-ventura-pet-detective-jim-carrey-comedy-duh-gif-18104219

[keen lion]

@tawny solar this should be fine

[tawny solar]

perfect 🔥 hope your save files recovers!

[smoky echo]

I've managed to complete the mod that was discussed previously https://www.nexusmods.com/hollowknightsilksong/mods/661 . not actually renodx related, but this project motivated me to study and get deeper into modding, and I am happy with the results

[atomic ferry]

oh damn very nice

[onyx sparrow]

6 pass looks nice

[thick moss]

it is indeed called "Blur Fast" in their code.

6 pass seems offsetted?

[smoky echo]

yep, I noticed that too. it slightly offsets the background, the more passes you use. I'm not sure if it breaks anything, or if it is an easy fix for it. the way the mod works is by altering some game parameters that ultimately end up in the shader. I didn't alter the shader itself in any way

[smoky echo]

I think it's actually "Hollow Knight/Light Blur". but yes, using multiple passes with the same shader (which basically calls Graphics.Blit(renderTexture, renderTexture4, this.blurMaterial, i % 2); in a loop from 0 to BlurPassCount) ends up with the offset you noticed. I think the only proper way to fix it is to replace the shader entirely

[thick moss]

I can probably fix it in shader

[smoky echo]

I was curious I and took a look at the decompiled blur shaders (there is 1 for each axis, so there are 2) and I found something rather curious. these seem to be the coordinate offsets for the samples. r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;, where cb0[2].yyyy is probably the texture scale and v1.yyyy is the current texture coordinate. but why are the offsets so ... weird? they're not centered, and are unevenly spaced, and this is what ultimately causes the offset
I also tried fiddling with those numbers, and I came up with these float4(-2.5, -0.5, 1.5, 3.5) (it's basically 4 values from -3 to 3, evenly spaced, and offset with 0.5) . this I discovered experimentally, and seem to work well in regards to eliminating the offset of the resulting effect. but in the end it looks... different, smoother

[thick moss]

Could be a bug

It this default Unity code

Or Hollow Knight

[smoky echo]

yep, the hollow knight blur shader are exactly the same

[thick moss]

Are the offsets different depending on the number of passes? They shouldn't. Range should be the same afaik.

[smoky echo]

nope. the offsets are the same, and appears exactly like that in the decompilation. the number of passes just affects the number of times the material is applied to the renderTexture (two textures are used back and forth, in a loop)

[thick moss]

i wonder if that even works in ultrawide.

backgrounds might appear blurred differently

[smoky echo]

I think it should be fine. the 4 offsets are multiplied, as you can see in the code above, with a value coming from the game cb0[2].yyyy (also cb0[2].xxxx is used for the horizontal blur pass) this is most likely the texture scale, and should be properly calculated for wide resolutions as well. but I'm not entirely sure, and I don't have ultrawide to test

[radiant zinc]

I'm trying to set the peak brightness to 2300 but the game only achieves 1000 nits, is that how the mod works or I'm doing something wrong? also the in-game brightness has to be on the default 100% right?

[keen lion]

What do you think in the scene should be 2000 nits?

Or, rather, over 1000

[radiant zinc]

The scene at the beginning where hornet wakes up besides an old lady has bright light pass the lady but the highlights never reach the peak brightness neither the lava level.

[keen lion]

You could lower white clip, but by default there's no fake HDR element to the mod. You'd have boost with Contrast or Highlights

If the scene is coded to 1000 nits, then that's it. Explosions do go to 10000 nits though

[keen lion]

it's not the parallax effect based on offset?

[smoky echo]

Nope. It's the offsets of the blur shader

I adjusted those offsets and got it to work correctly regardless of number of passes. But as I said, with these adjustment, the effect looks a little smoother compared to vanilla

Even with the default 2 pass. That's why I'm not that happy with this fix

[keen lion]

uniform sampler2D image;
 
out vec4 FragmentColor;
 
uniform float offset[3] = float[](0.0, 1.3846153846, 3.2307692308);
uniform float weight[3] = float[](0.2270270270, 0.3162162162, 0.0702702703);
 
void main(void) {
    FragmentColor = texture2D(image, vec2(gl_FragCoord) / 1024.0) * weight[0];
    for (int i=1; i<3; i++) {
        FragmentColor +=
            texture2D(image, (vec2(gl_FragCoord) + vec2(0.0, offset[i])) / 1024.0)
                * weight[i];
        FragmentColor +=
            texture2D(image, (vec2(gl_FragCoord) - vec2(0.0, offset[i])) / 1024.0)
                * weight[i];
    }
}

here are your numbers

https://www.rastergrid.com/blog/2010/09/efficient-gaussian-blur-with-linear-sampling/

https://stackoverflow.com/a/12733667/1426683

[smoky echo]

Uuu perfect info! Many thanks, I 'll read it carefully

[keen lion]

float mergedOffset(x1, x2, w1, w2) {
  return (x1 * w1 + x2 * w2) / (w1 + w2);
}

• mergedOffset(1,2,792,495) == 1.3846153846
• mergedOffset(3,4,220,66) == 3.2307692308

those numbers come from the Pascal table

i'd assume cb2[y] is 1/height

it's not? it's just 1?

anyway, the offset is weird, i don't know where those numbers came from

it's possible it's a bug

yeah... seems misaligned from that, not sure why they have them intentionally offset

seems to cause issue with edges in vanilla

yeah, vanilla has ghosting

[smoky echo]

Then we can fix it in renodx, and will probably work correctly with my improved blur mod

[keen lion]

you can easily upgrade the texture, fyi like this ```cpp
r0.xyzw = cb0[2].xxxx * float4(3.23076892, 1.38461494, -2.76923108, -0.615384996) + v1.xxxx;

float width; float height;
t0.GetDimensions(width, height);
r0.xyzw = lerp(
r0.xyzw,
1.f/width * float4(3.23076892, 1.38461494, -3.23076892, -1.38461494) + v1.xxxx,
CUSTOM_HERO_LIGHT
);
r1.xz = r0.yw;
r1.yw = v1.yy;
r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.xy).xyzw;
r1.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.zw).xyzw;
r1.xyz = r2.xyz + r1.xyz;
r1.xyz = float3(0.316260993, 0.316260993, 0.316260993) * r1.xyz;
r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, v1.xy).xyzw;
float3 center_sample = t0.Load(int3(v0.xy,0)).xyz;

r1.xyz = r2.xyz * float3(0.227026999, 0.227026999, 0.227026999) + r1.xyz;
r0.yw = v1.yy;
r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.xy).xyzw;
r0.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.zw).xyzw;
r0.xyz = r2.xyz + r0.xyz;
o0.xyz = r0.xyz * float3(0.0702700019, 0.0702700019, 0.0702700019) + r1.xyz;
o0.w = 1;

o0.rgb = lerp(o0.rgb, center_sample, CUSTOM_GRAIN_STRENGTH);

though i still don't understand the weird offsets

and i'm getting weird ghosting

i hijacked grain and hero light sliders for testing, but i'm fighting some sanity checks

[keen lion]

user error, ghosting was my fault, it seems, over lerped

[radiant zinc]

I'm using the HDR Look preset and not even the boss explosions reach 2000 nits unless I set whiteclip on 0 and game brightness to 500. should I use vanilla preset?

[keen lion]

game brightness should basically always be 203

and no, vanilla preset just capped sdr look

if you jack up brightness then you'll reduce your range

use the highlights slider

white clip 0 means no tonemapping at all, basically, just hard clip anything above your peak/brightness ratio

[radiant zinc]

I see so I keep using HDR Look and leave White clip on 20, Game brightness on 203 and try with highlights slider?

[keen lion]

your HDR range is peak / game brightness

you put 2000/500, you're at 4:1 range

sdr range is 1:1

you can scale brightness, sure, but you're just scaling up the image and sacrificing range. no real reason to boost game brightness outside of fighting room environment (eg: sunlight)

[radiant zinc]

For what I understand the recomended whitepoint for 2000 peak is 343

so I guess 2300 should be higher than that?

[keen lion]

It's 343 with a gamma to drop it down again

After all is said and done, it's basically like a 100 nit image, still really dark. I have the slider so I can take a screenshot of what 2000+343+recommended gamma looks like

Gamma is just alternative to contrast and highlight boosting

I only really understood it this week, to be fair

HLG the display output type (not HDR10 that we use) has an HDR Look built into it

[keen lion]

2000/203/1.00 vs 2000/343/1.33 vs 2000/343/1.00

The idea is if you boost reference white for your peak then you also boost the overall gamma so that it is still around at 203. If you don't do an overall gamma, then it's too bright at just 343.

let me make you a build with the gamma slider, it'll probably be a bit better for what you want, but you'll still probably have to end up boosting the highlights a bit to your liking

[radiant zinc]

Thank you for taking your time to explain this to me, I''m new to HDR I just bought my first oled

So I'm trying to set the games to the peak brightness of the TV for better highlights

Moving the highlights sliders seems to boost peak brightness but also contrast?

[keen lion]

yeah... it's not that great of a function, the biasing is pretty early, but balances pretty with contrast slider

gamma probably does a better job, but throws out midgray, which game brightness then equalizes

https://tenor.com/view/panic-control-buttons-gif-5736737

basically becomes this

for high peaks over 1000, Gamma is probably what's missing most

[keen lion]

HDR, in a nutshells has these expectations:

• SDR was graded for 100 nits
• SDR was encoded with BT709
• SDR was decoded with BT.1886
• SDR had an effective encoding/decoding gamma of 1.2 (per channel)

So HDR is

• SDR 100 nits is mapped to 203 nits
• HDR baseline is 1000 nits
• Anything outside 1000 nits has 203 value shifted and 1.2 gamma (by luminance) shifted

Doesn't exactly work because PC games don't encode with BT709 (sRGB instead) and don't decode with BT.1886 (2.2 instead), so gamma is closer to 1.0. And definitely wasn't meant for 100-nit brightness and has much brighter viewing environments. But that's mostly boring so things get invented to make it look different.

[radiant zinc]

I see, yeah I always wonder why HDR looked so bad most of the time and didnt bother until I gave it another try with the oled tv

It doesnt help that not even devs make it right from the get go

for most games

[keen lion]

i'm actually trying to do it to spec. most game devs don't even do the 2.2 on SRGB decoding that PC SDR has. that has a smaller gamma difference than movies/tv, but enough to still feel washed out.

@smoky echo @radiant zinc gamma slider and blur offset fix

[radiant zinc]

Windows HDR seems to have been problem too

[keen lion]

Windows HDR is accurate, for better or for worse

gives you 1:1 mapping of sRGB

but nobody used accurate 1:1 viewing of SDR content on PC

only photography users

[radiant zinc]

But renodx for most games I have tried so far seem to peak with the peak brightness slider even Hades 2 is only silksong that doesn't reach were the peak brightness slider says

[keen lion]

well, peak means absolute peak

white clip shows what peak maps to

100:1 is the default

you're compressing 100:1 to ratio to 4:1 ratio

which means 10000 nit input

or rather, 100x 100% white

white clip 20 would be 2000% white

but you would clip anything the game renders at 2000 nits

Vanilla clips everything above 100%

[radiant zinc]

for some reason Neither chrome or windows defender is letting me download the file it seems to be giving me a false positive

[keen lion]

the point of tonemapping is to leave room for brightness that's yet to come. if you don't tonemap, then you're just clipping

vanilla clips everything after 100%, so you have a pick a number to map input to output peak

like, what would map to 2300 nits

ultimate the goal of sdr and hdr and really everything is to simulate real life. when you don't you're applying artistic look and feel.

like boosting contrast, or oversaturating

a bit harder in 2D games, but generally how all the math works in 3D games

[radiant zinc]

I notice that 3d games seem to popup a bit more than 2d

my tv uses Clipping mode for tonemapping in Gamemode

for what I understand its the same as hgig mode

[keen lion]

2d games usually are just layered on top, but you can still tonemap 2D. all the compositing are based on real math

yeah hgig means TV does nothing

though what TV do you have that does 2300 nits?

[radiant zinc]

Panasonic Z95B

[keen lion]

then yeah, should be the same, as long as you don't see the Windows HDR 10% calibration screen get dimmer or go too far beyond the measured peak of your TV

[radiant zinc]

rtings.com says the 10% is 2400 on Game mode but im using 2300 for sutained 10% to avoid ABL territory

[keen lion]

you're supposed to use 70% brightness it says

When setting the TV's HDR brightness past 70, you get a brighter image overall, since it acts similarly to a dynamic tone mapping feature. However, you lose accuracy when you do that, as shown in the PQ EOTF results and score with the brightness maxed out.

basically a highlight booster after 70

[radiant zinc]

Yeah thats the default for film maker mode too

it suppose to be more accurate

I mean it suppose to follow the EOTF curve more accurate

but the peak seems to be limited in 70

rtings even did two test

one with 70 and other 100

it got different results for the peak brightness in the 10% windows

the panasonic seems to behave diferent from other TVs

in that regard

[keen lion]

this is the file in rar

[radiant zinc]

same issue, its weird is the first time this happens is blocking my download

[keen lion]

i can't really control that

[smoky echo]

some interesting finding. let's break down these params.
(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108)
param1 and param2 are the same from the blog post, param3 == param1 - 2.0, param3 == param2 - 6.0
So, my guess is that they probably used the initial idea and added some adaptations in order to make it look okish. And did not take into consideration that the summed result is uneven / offsetted

In any case, I will continue to play with it tomorrow

[smoky echo]

I have adapted this shader code, and works pretty nice. it's still noticeably different. here is a comparison https://imgsli.com/NDIzNzQ0
I also created a PR

I will test a bit, if it looks wrong (or if you think it's not needed) the PR can be closed

[sour leaf]

Is this what I think it is, an actual high quality blur?

[smoky echo]

sort of. it doesn't replace any shader. it adjusts the game logic in order to use a higher resolution render target for the background, and apply the blur shader multiple times. the result is a higher quality blur

[sour leaf]

gonna set it up right now to test it since I was waiting for forever for someone to make this, since the blur quality was basically one of the only things in terms of SS visuals that was bothering (especially sine early trailer and screenshots clearly used a much more high quality version of it)

plus HK was much better in that regard when it would scale of of your resolution so it was much nicer looking

@smoky echo I have a quick question if you don't mind, do you need to create a folder inside the BepInEx/plugins for this mod, or should I put the files from the archive directly in to plugins folder?

[smoky echo]

I think it would work either way

[sour leaf]

yep it works, and thank you for the quick answer and obviously for the mod if i didnt thank already

also a really convenient menu may I ad

@smoky echo also from what I can assume the vanilla preset and settings are literally the vanilla look correct? so there is like no reason to play without the mod since if I for some reason wanted to return to default for comparison purposes for example then that would be it?

[smoky echo]

yes, exactly

thanks for the appreciation

[keen lion]

thanks! though i already had this written here: #1413213618958372935 message and as a slider

have you tested it with your resolution changes? does it work to solve the drift as you increase the resolution?

also this build, i think is the same #1413213618958372935 message

[smoky echo]

yep, it completely removes the offset

[smoky echo]

yep, your approach was better. I did a similar thing in the end. this is the PR https://github.com/clshortfuse/renodx/pull/432

[sour leaf]

This mod is fantastic, omg, this is it, this was the last piece. I mean just look at the difference between vanilla and RenoDX+ Donut fix+ Blur improvement

now this, this how the game was supposed to look like from the beginning, good fricking job man, I'm really grateful to you 💖

(I left the blur on medium since it was the best in my opinion, it eliminated the artifacts while not unblurring to much)

plus it didn't offset the image, since I originally was thinking between 4 and 5 passes, but while 4 worked perfectly 5 was moving the image just a bit

[sour leaf]

also is this PR "version" fixes that?

[smoky echo]

Yep, with the shader offset fix, you can use any number of passes, it will still look good

[sour leaf]

wait what exactly do I do with this https://github.com/clshortfuse/renodx/pull/432 ?

[smoky echo]

it's the source code for the blur shader fix. you compile it 😅 or you use this, I compiled it for you

[sour leaf]

oh I see, so I use this instead of original renodx I assume?

[smoky echo]

yep

[sour leaf]

I see, thank you so much. And thanks again for the amazing mod, like I cannot describe how much I and a lot of other people were waiting for this specific thing, you are terrific, god bless you man

[keen lion]

i don't see the same math, fyi: mine: ```cpp

r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;

float width, height;
t0.GetDimensions(width, height);
r1.xyzw = lerp(
r1.xyzw,
1.f / height * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -1.38461494, -3.23076892) + v1.yyyy,
CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX);

pr:
```cpp
  float offsetCorrection = -0.307691946;
  float4 offsetCorrectionFloat4 = cb0[2].y * float4(offsetCorrection, offsetCorrection, offsetCorrection, offsetCorrection);
  r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy + offsetCorrectionFloat4;

you're also shifting r1.xy as well?

i also had support for increasing the resolution later, possibly by skipping the cbuffer

or maybe this is clearer ```cpp
float width, height;
t0.GetDimensions(width, height);
r1.xyzw = lerp(
cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy,
1.f / height * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -1.38461494, -3.23076892) + v1.yyyy,
CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX);

[keen lion]

also fast_bloom has this ```cpp
r0.xyzw = cb0[3].xyxy * float4(0.440510005, 0.108919993, 0.472079962, 0.494199961) + v1.xyxy;
r1.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.xy).xyzw;
r0.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.zw).xyzw;
r0.xyzw = r1.xyzw + r0.xyzw;
r1.xyzw = cb0[3].xyxy * float4(0.0894600004, -0.139719993, -0.375760019, -0.387800008) + v1.xyxy;
r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.xy).xyzw;
r1.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.zw).xyzw;
r0.xyzw = r2.xyzw + r0.xyzw;
r0.xyzw = r0.xyzw + r1.xyzw;
r1.xyzw = cb0[3].xyxy * float4(-0.109269999, 0.521640003, -0.533469975, -0.173179999) + v1.xyxy;
r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.xy).xyzw;
r1.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.zw).xyzw;
r0.xyzw = r2.xyzw + r0.xyzw;
r0.xyzw = r0.xyzw + r1.xyzw;
r1.xyzw = cb0[3].xyxy * float4(0.456049979, -0.41069001, 0.161559999, 0.632239997) + v1.xyxy;
r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.xy).xyzw;
r1.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.zw).xyzw;
r0.xyzw = r2.xyzw + r0.xyzw;
r0.xyzw = r0.xyzw + r1.xyzw;
r0.xyzw = r0.xyzw * float4(0.125, 0.125, 0.125, 0.125) + -cb0[4].zzzz;
r0.xyzw = max(float4(0, 0, 0, 0), r0.xyzw);
o0.xyzw = cb0[4].wwww * r0.xyzw;

which isn't centered either

hollow knight was centered ```cpp
const float4 icb[] = { { 0.020500, 0, 0, 0},
{ 0.085500, 0, 0, 0},
{ 0.232000, 0, 0, 0},
{ 0.324000, 0, 0, 1.000000},
{ 0.232000, 0, 0, 0},
{ 0.085500, 0, 0, 0},
{ 0.020500, 0, 0, 0} };

[smoky echo]

cb0[2].x and cb0[2].y already contain the correct values for 1.f / width and 1.f / height. the logic in the PR avoids the call to GetDimensions, and the division. perhaps the logic in the PR was not that straightforward. essentialy, what it does is adjusts the existing offsets. it can be simplified like this

  r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * (float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + float4(offsetCorrection, offsetCorrection, offsetCorrection, offsetCorrection)) + v1.yyyy;```

or better yet, adjust the offsets directly. in the end, the result looks almost identical in the vanilla game, with a barely noticeable offset. but this fixes a lot of issues when using more passes with the mod

I will check the fast_bloom as well, I'm not sure the mod affects it

nope, it's not affected. the fast_bloom render target uses a quarter resolution, that scales with the main resolution (960x540 for 3840x2160), while the ligh_blur uses a fixed 640x360 regardless of main resolution (what the mod intended to fix in the first place)

[keen lion]

my confusion is why not just replace it so it's symmetrical like in the tutorial. isn't that the point to fix it?

the PR lets the shader do the math with the wrong values, and then offsets them in float. doesn't it make sense to not let it use the wrong values? Vanilla does

float mergedOffset(float x1, float x2, float w1, float w2) {
  return (x1 * w1 + x2 * w2) / (w1 + w2);
}

mergedOffset(3,4,220,066); // 3.230769230769231
mergedOffset(1,2,792,495); // 1.3846153846153846
mergedOffset(2,4,792,495); // 2.769230769230769
mergedOffset(1,0,792,495); // 0.615384996

that's where the numbers come from. they're not symmetrical, and should be according to https://www.rastergrid.com/blog/2010/09/efficient-gaussian-blur-with-linear-sampling/ why not fix the numbers so they are symmetrical? (also the dimensions was because you were working on that renodx mod that had it scale up texture resolution, so i slipped that in there)

[keen lion]

basically this ```cpp
// r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;

// https://www.rastergrid.com/blog/2010/09/efficient-gaussian-blur-with-linear-sampling/
// GaussianOffset(3, 4, 220, 066); // 3.230769230769231
// GaussianOffset(1, 2, 792, 495); // 1.3846153846153846
// GaussianOffset(2, 4, 792, 495); // 2.769230769230769
// GaussianOffset(1, 0, 792, 495); // 0.615384996

r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy
* lerp(
float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108),
float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -1.38461494, -3.23076892),
CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX)
+ v1.yyyy;

[smoky echo]

why not just replace it so it's symmetrical like in the tutorial. isn't that the point to fix it?
using symmetical values makes the effect looks ... somewhat different, softer. not entirely sure what was the original intention, but I tried to preserve the look and fix the offset issue

[smoky echo]

thanks. I will try this version and test it with the slider

[smoky echo]

nope, something doesn't look right, no clear idea why

[keen lion]

it's probably intentionally so it blends a bit different, like anisotropic filtering. shouldn't it be (1.38461494 + 3.23076892 + -0.615384996 + -2.76923108 + 0)/5 because it's 5 sample (with 0 as center) making it 0.24615355679999995 ?

  r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;

  // Custom: Fix drift by averaging
  r1.xyzw += cb0[2].y * (1.38461494 + 3.23076892 + -0.615384996 + -2.76923108 + 0) / 5.0;

(also it's not good to have magic numbers in the files themselves. PR descriptions and commit messages aren't as clear).

[smoky echo]

oooh excelent point, it should be /5 because 5 samples

[keen lion]

  r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;

  if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 1.f) {
    // Custom: Fix offset by averaging
    r1.xyzw += cb0[2].y * (1.38461494 + 3.23076892 + -0.615384996 + -2.76923108 + 0) / 5.0;
  } else if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 2.f) {
    // https://www.rastergrid.com/blog/2010/09/efficient-gaussian-blur-with-linear-sampling/
    // GaussianOffset(3, 4, 220, 066);  // 3.230769230769231
    // GaussianOffset(1, 2, 792, 495);  // 1.3846153846153846
    // GaussianOffset(2, 4, 792, 495);  // 2.769230769230769
    // GaussianOffset(1, 0, 792, 495);  // 0.615384996
    r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -1.38461494, -3.23076892) + v1.yyyy;
  }

this is if we want a [Vanilla, Centered, Symmetrical] slider

[smoky echo]

nice. I will add these updates

[keen lion]

i like to have "Off" Preset show the original version, so it's behind a cbuffer.

[smoky echo]

will do

also, should I also add [branch] before the if here? I'm not familiar with it's use in slang, but I've seen it in similar places

[keen lion]

this one is a bit weird. i like to keep the original decompiled code in there, at least commented, so when you diff with a clean decompile you can see what was changed. for [branch] it's usually on variable assignment, so it would look better like this

  // r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;

  // https://www.rastergrid.com/blog/2010/09/efficient-gaussian-blur-with-linear-sampling/
  // GaussianOffset(3, 4, 220, 066);  // 3.230769230769231
  // GaussianOffset(1, 2, 792, 495);  // 1.3846153846153846
  // GaussianOffset(2, 4, 792, 495);  // 2.769230769230769
  // GaussianOffset(1, 0, 792, 495);  // 0.615384996
  [branch]
  if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 2.f) {
    r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -1.38461494, -3.23076892) + v1.yyyy;
  } else {
    r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;
    if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 1.f) {
      // Custom: Fix offset by averaging
      r1.xyzw += cb0[2].y * (1.38461494 + 3.23076892 + -0.615384996 + -2.76923108 + 0) / 5.0;
    }
  }

that's the more efficient way, though harder to read

for lonely if states the gpu does this implicitly: ```cpp

[branch]
if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 2.f) {
r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -1.38461494, -3.23076892) + v1.yyyy;
} else {
r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;

[branch]
if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 1.f) {
  // Custom: Fix offset by averaging
  r1.xyzw = r1.xyzw + cb0[2].y * (1.38461494 + 3.23076892 + -0.615384996 + -2.76923108 + 0) / 5.0;
} else {
  r1.xyzw = r1.xyzw;
}

}

but you don't have to do this

[smoky echo]

I have update the PR, but I have 2 comments:

• regarding the centered / averaged option, the /5.0 version still has a noticeable offset, /4.0 works perfectly, there is no offset even with 32 passes; I included it in the PR
• regarding the symmetrical, it' doesn't look right as far as I tried. as I said, it causes heavier blur, and looks curious. also it seems the order of the parameter does matter, and I don't want to mess with the rest of the shader. I would suggest removing the option and just leave vanilla / centered

you can test it if you wish, and you have the time 🍻

[keen lion]

i guess the /4 is right because you're not also moving the center offset, just the x points (top/bottom/left/right), so unless you also move center it will probably misalign.

the symmetrical is the "correct" way though, as 9tap gaussian is supposed to be: here's another one from 10 years ago: https://github.com/Experience-Monks/glsl-fast-gaussian-blur/blob/master/9.glsl

9 tap refers to 1 center + 4 shifted in Y, 4 shifted in X

maybe explanation is here https://developer.nvidia.com/gpugems/gpugems/part-iv-image-processing/chapter-21-real-time-glow

like it's intentionally offset to simulate the 3d?

[smoky echo]

hmm beats me

[keen lion]

it's off because the size differs when it's symmetric. i found some neat stuff, including this image from https://bartwronski.com/2020/02/03/separate-your-filters-svd-and-low-rank-approximation-of-image-filters/

Also this collection of blurs is cool https://evanw.github.io/webgl-filter/ (tilt shift!).

Basically, before the size was [-2.76923108, 3.23076892], which is a size of 6. With symmetrical, the size is [-3.23076892, 3.23076892] which is 6.4. that increase means the blur is stronger, But I added slider to control the strength and mostly looks the same, after all is said and done.

The recentering isn't perfect though, because it's supposed have some weight to it. not all 4 weights are equal, so you're not supposed to divide them all equally.

i redid one shader ```cpp
r0.xz = v1.xx;

// r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;

// https://www.rastergrid.com/blog/2010/09/efficient-gaussian-blur-with-linear-sampling/
// GaussianOffset(3, 4, 220, 066); // 3.230769230769231
// GaussianOffset(1, 2, 792, 495); // 1.3846153846153846
// GaussianOffset(2, 4, 792, 495); // 2.769230769230769
// GaussianOffset(1, 0, 792, 495); // 0.615384996
[branch]
if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 2.f) {
r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -1.38461494, -3.23076892) + v1.yyyy;
} else {
r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;
if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 1.f) {
// Custom: Fix offset by averaging
r1.xyzw += cb0[2].y * (1.38461494 + 3.23076892 + -0.615384996 + -2.76923108) / -4.0;
}
}

r0.yw = r1.xz;
r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.xy).xyzw; // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * 1.384615)
r0.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.zw).xyzw; // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * -0.615384996)
r0.xyz = r2.xyz + r0.xyz;
r0.xyz = float3(0.316260993, 0.316260993, 0.316260993) * r0.xyz; // 63.25% inner (2 samples)
r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, v1.xy).xyzw;
float3 center_sample = t0.Load(int3(v0.xy, 0)).xyz;
r0.xyz = r2.xyz * float3(0.227026999, 0.227026999, 0.227026999) + r0.xyz; // 22.70% center (1 sample)
r1.xz = v1.xx;
r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.xy).xyzw; // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * 3.230769)
r1.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.zw).xyzw; // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * -2.76923108)
r1.xyz = r2.xyz + r1.xyz;
o0.xyz = r1.xyz * float3(0.0702700019, 0.0702700019, 0.0702700019) + r0.xyz; // 14.05% outer (2 samples)
o0.w = 1;

o0.rgb = lerp(center_sample.rgb, o0.rgb, CUSTOM_BLUR_STRENGTH);

idk what the exact number is because maths, but 70% blur symmetric is about the same as recentered

interesting ```cpp
r0.xyzw -= cb0[2].xxxx
* ((1.38461494 * 0.316260993)
+ (3.23076892 * 0.0702700019)
+ (-0.615384996 * 0.316260993)
+ (-2.76923108 * 0.0702700019));

this keeps the pixels centered, and just have the skewed blur

with weighted sum offset / averaging

uh, maybe not the best example to only edge of something

[sharp ivy]

bart wronski the local tonemapping guy

[smoky echo]

😲 wow excellent finding

[keen lion]

  r0.xz = v1.xx;

  // r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;

  // https://www.rastergrid.com/blog/2010/09/efficient-gaussian-blur-with-linear-sampling/
  // GaussianOffset(3, 4, 220, 066);  // 3.230769230769231
  // GaussianOffset(1, 2, 792, 495);  // 1.3846153846153846
  // GaussianOffset(2, 4, 792, 495);  // 2.769230769230769
  // GaussianOffset(1, 0, 792, 495);  // 0.615384996
  [branch]
  if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 2.f) {
    r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -1.38461494, -3.23076892) + v1.yyyy;
  } else {
    r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;
    if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 1.f) {
      // Custom: Fix offset by averaging
      // r1.xyzw = cb0[2].y * (1.38461494 * 0.316260993 + 3.23076892 + -0.615384996 + -2.76923108) / -4.0;
      r1.xyzw -= cb0[2].y * ((1.38461494 * 0.316260993) + (3.23076892 * 0.0702700019) + (-0.615384996 * 0.316260993) + (-2.76923108 * 0.0702700019));
      v1.y -= cb0[2].y * ((1.38461494 * 0.316260993) + (3.23076892 * 0.0702700019) + (-0.615384996 * 0.316260993) + (-2.76923108 * 0.0702700019));
    }
  }

  r0.yw = r1.xz;
  r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.xy).xyzw;  // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * 1.384615)
  r0.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.zw).xyzw;  // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * -0.615384996)
  r0.xyz = r2.xyz + r0.xyz;
  r0.xyz = float3(0.316260993, 0.316260993, 0.316260993) * r0.xyz;  // 63.25% inner (2 samples)
  r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, v1.xy).xyzw;
  float3 center_sample = t0.Load(int3(v0.xy, 0)).xyz;
  r0.xyz = r2.xyz * float3(0.227026999, 0.227026999, 0.227026999) + r0.xyz;  // 22.70% center (1 sample)
  r1.xz = v1.xx;
  r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.xy).xyzw;  // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * 3.230769)
  r1.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.zw).xyzw;  // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * -2.76923108)
  r1.xyz = r2.xyz + r1.xyz;
  o0.xyz = r1.xyz * float3(0.0702700019, 0.0702700019, 0.0702700019) + r0.xyz;  // 14.05% outer (2 samples)
  o0.w = 1;

  o0.rgb = lerp(center_sample.rgb, o0.rgb, CUSTOM_BLUR_STRENGTH);

might actually be this, still experimenting (i also moved center sample for recenter)

i was messing with a desmos plot, and basically, if the bounds are moved, then the center is moved, so it makes sense to sample off-center as well

it's not skewed, or tilted. it's off-center, so center should be sampled differently

https://tenor.com/view/pooh-think-gif-1340462643755215586

[keen lion]

needed visual aid

[smoky echo]

Oh you got really in depth 😯

[keen lion]

same picture

so it's this... 9 points

circle size is the relative weights

[keen lion]

@smoky echo

The weights, after all things considered, is off center by ~0.27583 (first image)

• By using the average0.307788211, you're offsetting, but not taking into account the weights so it's slightly off. Not all 4 samples are equal. For example imagine adding 2 more samples with 0 weight. (second image)

• By offsetting everything by 0.356646290293 you're essentially centering the sampling (third image lining up the purple dot) while keeping it slightly skewed as intended.

You could center the 4 points and adjust weight 0 (essentially what the lerp did), but it wouldn't have the same bias to the edges. You could also adjust the output, but it's more efficient to keep center (and a free lerp for strength).

math comes out to this for adjustment

[smoky echo]

Brilliant! And it actually makes sense

[keen lion]

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/t4rhn0t6a7

you can play with the numbers and scales there (edit: updated)

  r1.xyzw = cb0[2].yyyy * float4(1.38461494, 3.23076892, -0.615384996, -2.76923108) + v1.yyyy;

  // https://www.rastergrid.com/blog/2010/09/efficient-gaussian-blur-with-linear-sampling/
  // GaussianOffset(3, 4, 220, 066);  // 3.230769230769231
  // GaussianOffset(1, 2, 792, 495);  // 1.3846153846153846
  // GaussianOffset(2, 4, 792, 495);  // 2.769230769230769
  // GaussianOffset(1, 0, 792, 495);  // 0.615384996
  float weight1 = 0.316260993;
  float weight2 = 0.0702700019;
  float adjustment = (weight1 * (1.38461494f + -0.615384996) + (weight2 * (3.23076892f + -2.76923108)))
                     / (2.0 * (weight1 + weight2));
  r1.xyzw -= cb0[2].y * adjustment * CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX;

  r0.yw = r1.xz;
  r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.xy).xyzw;  // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * 1.384615)
  r0.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r0.zw).xyzw;  // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * -0.615384996)
  r0.xyz = r2.xyz + r0.xyz;
  r0.xyz = float3(0.316260993, 0.316260993, 0.316260993) * r0.xyz;  // 63.25% inner (2 samples)
  r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, v1.xy).xyzw;
  float3 center_sample = r2.rgb;
  r0.xyz = r2.xyz * float3(0.227026999, 0.227026999, 0.227026999) + r0.xyz;  // 22.70% center (1 sample)
  r1.xz = v1.xx;
  r2.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.xy).xyzw;  // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * 3.230769)
  r1.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, r1.zw).xyzw;  // float2(v1.x, v1.y + cb[2].yyyy * -2.76923108)
  r1.xyz = r2.xyz + r1.xyz;
  o0.xyz = r1.xyz * float3(0.0702700019, 0.0702700019, 0.0702700019) + r0.xyz;  // 14.05% outer (2 samples)
  o0.w = 1;

  o0.rgb = lerp(center_sample.rgb, o0.rgb, CUSTOM_BLUR_STRENGTH);

now it's cleaner like this, with no branching

[smoky echo]

you have refined this solution to it's absolute best version. excellent work!

[smoky echo]

😕 I think there is still an tiny, barely noticeable issue, and this solution by offseting is not perfect. check this out. the offset fix on vanilla settings (360p, 2pass) shows a slight staircase effect (not sure how to call it) in the top center of the background. with the mod it becomes unnoticeable at 4+ passes

[smoky echo]

in any case, this is a great improvement. I think it's worth including it, with a default on vanilla. I will mention on the mod readme that the issue can only be fixed with renodx. you can commit the code if you wish. I could also update the PR, but it contains only work done by you 😄

[tawny solar]

that's looking nice 👍

finished my 100% playthrough a couple days ago with the mod. thank you all very much for improving an already excellent game!

[smoky echo]

I couldn't stop thinking about this, I belive it happens because the center sample coords are the issue. then I had an idea. instead of trying to adjust the existing offsets, why not just offset the texcoord? I tried something quick like this float2 adjustedv1 = v1; if (CUSTOM_BLUR_FIX == 1.f) { float offset = -0.11538446; // ((3.23076892 + 2.76923108) / 2 - 3.23076892) / 2; adjustedv1 += cb0[2].xy * offset; } and just use the adjustedv1 instead of v1 in the rest of the file. it seems to work very well

cropped, to illustrate the issue with the existing code

[mellow obsidian]

@keen lion Hello. Today, I updated Silksong in beta mode, and I noticed that the developers had automatically enabled the Dither setting in the video settings to High. As a result, the environment became darker, so I had to turn it off. The vignette is set to 25. I wrote this because I remember you saying that your mod disables the Dither setting, even if it is enabled by default. So, with the new update, we need to wait for the new version of the RenoDx mod.

Right?

And of course I use Debanded glow texture from nexus

[keen lion]

Yeah, I don't have access to whatever they changed.

[atomic ferry]

beta is public fyi

[keen lion]

xbox

[atomic ferry]

oh

https://tenor.com/view/sullimvs-jinrinotes-jinnielabs-dog-crying-gif-22771721

[keen lion]

and i paid the $20 despite having game pass. because when the game released it wasn't available as game pass and steam was down

[atomic ferry]

bruuuh hahaha

[stiff valley]

I bought GOG for this exact reason

[keen lion]

i had concerns about multiple passes if you offset all points, and not just around center. in the desmos as another value g_c. If you want offset everything then it's just the v value which is 0.275709690828 (in negative).

That's (weight1 * (1.38461494f + -0.615384996) + (weight2 * (3.23076892f + -2.76923108))) effectively, because c is (0,0)

[smoky echo]

makes sense, from the graph. testing in game, it's still too big 😕 I added a slider and messed with it, and it seems it works best with -0.275709690828 / 2

I've tried the latest beta, and indeed, the added [off / low / high] to the Dithering option, that messes with RenoDX. and theres a brand new Film Grain [on / off] option, that looks waay to aggresive for my taste

and, of course, new shaders. but it's better to wait for the stable release, there was a beta build yesterday, and 2 more just today, I think they are preparing for the public version

[keen lion]

the film grain shader has always been there, but they never enabled it

i saw it recently

it's in the save files as well, to enable it

i wonder if the film grain is as broken as it was in Hollow Knight

which was just noise

[mellow obsidian]

@keen lion A new update was released last night, and GamePass already had an update?

[atomic ferry]

Xbox not it seems? Kek

[smoky echo]

@keen lion indeed, it's the same noise_grain_0x0BF02D38.ps_4_0 noise_grain_0xF1B9A141.ps_4_0 that were uses in the old hollow knight. they will require a similar fix, the rendering is clipped when the effect is enabled

[smoky echo]

I was able to follow the existing code, and implement a fix that will allow the vanilla noise/film grain to work correctly in hdr. this should also work for the old hollow knight. comparison: noGrain - vanillaGrainNofix - vanillaGrainFix
do you think this is a good approach? @keen lion
https://github.com/clshortfuse/renodx/compare/main...alexkiri:renodx:hollowknight-noise-grain?expand=1

[keen lion]

vanilla should retain vanilla behavior (clip). adding negatives into the pipeline wouldn't really be vanilla

but for silksong, there's a toggle for grain, so it'll have to be more advanced to auto-detect if grain is on

also i don't want to make grain dependent on the menu option being enabled because that means i'd break old Silksong versions

[smoky echo]

I see, makes sense. Indeed the included film grain effect is not ok in a hdr pipeline. Best to keep it disabled then, and use the one included with RenoDX

[mellow obsidian]

@keen lion I decided to check if the core glows spriteatlas file had changed. It turned out that after the November 7 update, the file was re-downloaded. I had to download it again from Nexus and replace it with your version. However, I have a question: can you check what has changed with this file from the developers? The file size is smaller than yours. Have they made any improvements? Is your file still of better quality?

[smoky echo]

@sour leaf the devs updated the core_glows.spriteatlas.bundle in the latest version. comparison 1.0.28891 vs 1.0.29242, not sure what breaks but the atlas is definitely different

[sour leaf]

Fuck, It's seems they messed around with all the textures in it and draged half of them oround in difirent positions

I"ll fix the new version today as well, but that would also mean there would bave to be 2 diffirent versions for pre and post recent patch

Damn this patch broke a lot of shit for everyone didnt it

[sour leaf]

Wellp judging by how everythong should be fixed again I would argue that maybe there sould just be a separete version for post patch, that way everything on the old one would be fine and you could fix the new one without worrying about it

Since stuff like donut would already need 2 diffirent version for pathces

[mellow obsidian]

Hello. It turns out that the texture file that uploaded to nexus won't work properly with the new update, and need to wait for the new debanding version? I replaced it yesterday, but I'm not sure if it's working correctly.

[smoky echo]

yeah, sadly. this will be harder to manage, and somewhat confusing for users. I'm not sure what's the best approach.
they just made some small adjustments to some of the glow textures. as far as I can tell, there is no new texture in that texture atlas. but the reason why the textures are in different positions is probably unintentional, this texture atlas for this bundle was generated by unity at build time

but I might be wrong 😅

[sour leaf]

Yep, but no matter intentional or not the old one i asume wont work properly now (i havent tested anything yet myself)

I mean i update it anyway and post, and you guys can decide on what to do

Most people will just be on the recent one and wont even know about all of this so the old one is kind of obsolite

So again, i prupose to update the texture and reno and stuff without the old one in mind, and juzt leve old stuff as optional for people who knows what it is and who wanna play on the old patch for some reason

[smoky echo]

hmm, I quickly tested the old core_glows.spriteatlas.bundle with the new version, and it appears it works correctly

[sour leaf]

👀

[keen lion]

I'll see if I can get embedded textures to work so it's less of an issue for upgrading

[keen lion]

Atlas files probably have sub texture asset positioning

[smoky echo]

Inside the .bundle files, right? Then it makes sense that it works, but there might still be other differences in the bundle file. The best approach is to extract the png file from the new bundle, edit it, and pack it back into the new bundle

[sour leaf]

damn i really hate what they did to film grain

to be honest before, I was using the grain that was in the AppConfig, I manually turned it on and it worked well with reno without fucking with the whites

but now its the same as in HK and its just messes with reno

and i cant even have the previous one

[sour leaf]

yep I tested it as well in it seemed to work proper

but I redid it now with a new file

so here is the new post patch fix

BUT

I noticed something new

I dont know why, or how but they changed something about the bloom or idk

cause I noticed after the patch it looks a bit different

for example

[atomic ferry]

[sour leaf]

pre patch (left) after patch (right)

you may think its the same but its not, and most noticeable is the hornet herself

[atomic ferry]

bro i hate this little black screen transition that they added on PC smh

makes it harder to look at comparisons like that

[sour leaf]

did they moved the paralax lvl of bloom or something? or made it behave differently, cause it now doesnt affects her as much as it used to

or here (dont mind the grain since it was with old one on) like the "yellows" or what not was a bit more pronounced and overall colors more punhy

they defiantly did something with the bloom or colors or idk, cause it looks different in reno then before

[keen lion]

grain is usually okay in images, but the motion is usually killer when it's not well randomized

actually, with a flat background the pattern was pretty bad in HK, even in images

still nothing

[atomic ferry]

is this the html code for said blackscreen animation? not sure i can edit that persistently

yeah.. not persistent

maybe i can get that shit as a custom plugin or sumn

[onyx zealot]

ublock should be able..

[keen lion]

tampermonkey script can do it

[atomic ferry]

i am not using the browser version

discord app

[crystal copper]

Am i overthinking this?

Should the Output Mode switch to HDR if the game is started in HDR mode?

[keen lion]

all options, like Output Mode, are auto saved when you select them. the game boots with your last settings on Preset 1

if it doesn't start in HDR, it means you picked SDR and closed the game like that

[mellow obsidian]

@keen lion Hi, have you had an update for Silksong yet?

[keen lion]

yes, apparently yesterday

[atomic ferry]

[keen lion]

i'll work on it tomorrow

[keen lion]

oof, that noise and grain is gross

but i don't see i need to patch anything

[keen lion]

making a "Noise" slider. that's not film grain, no matter what they call it

[smoky echo]

Yep, awful. It repeats at a very noticeable period, and the texture used is horrible. Dunno why they added this

[smoky echo]

I think there is an issue with the vignette slider not working in certain cases, I think it's related to the High in-game dithering setting

But if your set both Dithering and Noise to Off, then yes, you don't need to patch anything 😅

[slim roost]

Why don't they just re-encode the gradient textures without compression, rather than adding even more noise to mask the defects? 😕

Using BC3 compression for a vignette is just stupid.

That could either be generated at runtime, calculated in a pixel shader, or just stored uncompressed.
All the banding problems are caused by poor asset authoring decisions, and adding noise on top of that is technical incompetence.

[keen lion]

Hollow Knight was originally a gamejam flash game, basically. and made on some beginner game-maker stuff. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSAlVBFdC6k

HK being bad is not too surprising. Not improving technically at all after 7 years is surprising (Silksong still uses the exact same shaders as Hollow Knight at times).

[atomic ferry]

Kinda sadge

[sleek lantern]

it is 3 people

[atomic ferry]

well yeah it but youd still expect them to improve at the technical aspects of their game

[sleek lantern]

i guess

[onyx sparrow]

how do u use this?

do i use this instead
#1413213618958372935 message

do i keep in game dithering and blur high? or low hmm

[smoky echo]

Set Dithering and Film grain to Off, and use the alternate settings is RenoDX. Blur doesn't matter, you can leave it to High

[onyx sparrow]

Whats a gud film grain value for renodx hm

[smoky echo]

Whatever you like. I personally prefer to disable it completely

[onyx sparrow]

Alr , what about renodx dithering, max right? Iam using the pinned files to fix glow effects debanding as well

[slim roost]

Yeah, uses the exact same input code too 😬
An updated version of the Unity input plug-in (InControl), but that's about it.
Has the same input bugs in this version as the original. Can be impossible to get the menu screen open with a gamepad if you have more than one 🙂

[onyx sparrow]

@smoky echo any idea hm?

[smoky echo]

yes, the rightmost option, 10+2 dither, should be the highest quality. but the dithering itself is intended to fix the banding effect present in the rendering pipeline, as well as in some of the textures themselves. given that RenoDX already fixes the banding effect in the pipeline, this dithering effect is barely noticeable anyway

[smoky echo]

hmm played a bit with the settings, and I noticed these things:

• the RenoDX "Debanding" setting seems to work only if you set the in-game "Dithering" setting to "High", otherwise does not have any effect
• the RenoDX "Vignette" setting works only if you set the in-game "Dithering" setting to "Off"

so, it's best to leave both in-game "Dithering" and RenoDX "Debanding" to Off / None for now, especially if you want to use the "Vignette" setting

[mellow obsidian]

@keen lion Hi. I'm curious to know if you have the opportunity to release a RenoDx mod for Terminator 2 No Fate? It uses the Unity 6 engine. In my opinion, gradation and banding would not hurt to adjust in this game, if it is possible, of course.

[sleek lantern]

you probably want #1413695723404398674

[dusty pelican]

Anyone get constant pauses in menus and shit when playing

everytime i change screen or open it up it stutters a bit

surely not due to reno right?

takes like 5 seconds to open map up

[subtle mantle]

@thick moss I know you’re continuing to update your Silksong mod. Any idea how it compares to Reno? I know your mods generally go a bit deeper with changes but I can’t image there’s much to do with Silksong

[thick moss]

There's some Ultrawide fixes and various light customization fixes, with a lot of code to fix banding. Less option for customization because I like to see my mods as must have extension of the game, not actual "mods". Try and pick what you like.

[dusty pelican]

Wasn't the luma mod just itm pretty much

was it updated?

[subtle mantle]

if one was to run specialK with luma, how would you hypothetically do that? with reno i just put the addon in the folder but for luma has another folder with it

[thick moss]

It works.

[subtle mantle]

silksong was broken with specialK global injection but it works now so i can it that way

[subtle mantle]

do you run reshade through specialK or on its own normally?

[thick moss]

I never use sk

Also the reshade that Luma comes with isn't mandatory. It's just for convenience

[subtle mantle]

is 0 true netural for the hdr boost?

[dusty pelican]

I'm getting issues when opening the menu it'll take a while to open it and changing screens on it sometimes pauses the game for a bit. you think maybe this is related?

I'm just using one controller and mnk though (mainly controller)

[slim roost]

Could have been, except the last patch completely replaced the game's input code 🙂

[subtle mantle]

Having a hard time deciding between Reno and Luma because the debanding is just so much better in the luma mod but I think I prefer the the look of Reno in terms of how bright some of the lower highlights, like hornets head in the hero light, can get with luma. Reno feels closer to unclipped SDR to me but with banding.

@keen lion the debanding slider in your mod is dithering, right? I can’t find the update that you listed that in lol

[keen lion]

It's not on Nexus Mods. But i think it's on the repo.

[subtle mantle]

As in it uses a different method on nexus or it just lacks the slider on nexus?

I just meant I couldn’t find the post that would tell me if it was dithering

[keen lion]

Maybe it is on Nexus? I forget.

Vanilla "dithering" is blur

I have 8+2 dithering and 10+2 dithering

[subtle mantle]

Gotcha. Just use the one that matches your display I’m guessing? 8 or 10 bit

[keen lion]

Yeah, though you can mismatch intentionally for extra dithering

Dithering is not perceptually scaled. It's constant for all ranges (relative to quantization). Grain is perceptual (relative to how our eyes would perceive grain on film/photos)

[subtle mantle]

Could you elaborate on this? does a mismatch lead to effectively more “noise” but a better looking dithering effect? Can you up and down?

[keen lion]

Not through the options itself, but you can make the noisier in code by basically selecting both the target bit depth and the amplitude.

It's supposed to be based on how much the output encoding is. But you can pretend it's 8bit PQ. SDR would be 8-bit

[subtle mantle]

So the debanding in the mod for hdr is 10+2 with the slider controlling amplitude?

[dusty pelican]

My god i've been watching some silksong videos on youtube now that i've finished the game and jesus i forgot how bad the normal sdr is

thank god for renodx

Is there an SDR version of the mod i feel like if there is it'd be a requirement even with no HDR monitor

[keen lion]

renodx has an SDR/HDR slider

trying to make it more standard practice

[tranquil badger]

https://tenor.com/view/lauryn-hill-sister-act-nope-none-hand-wave-gif-2974115183041441308

[dusty pelican]

my god i saw base hallow knight gameplay again too and that's even worse jesus

how did that even get past production

that's gotta be atleast half of the reason why people say silksong looks way better

[stiff valley]

It's a 9 year old game made by a very small team and it was their first game AFAIK

Silksong doesn't have this excuse though

[onyx sparrow]

Banding is so bad in some of the cut scenes

Esp the secret ending

Any way to fiz it

[slim roost]

It's a Unity game, they all look terrible.

Suffer from all kinds of wrong choices in texture compression.

[radiant zinc]

Hi guys, does the renodx october snapshot in github still works with silksong's last update? or was something broken with the update?

[sleek lantern]

waiting for that PR to get merged

https://github.com/clshortfuse/renodx/pull/444

[dusty pelican]

hdr / renodrt sdr / vanilla sdr

not as big a difference as i thought just a tonemapper would make ngl

its hard to find the screenshots of sdr that look hella clipped cause it's usually in boss fights

hdr / renodrt sdr / vanilla sdr

yeah vanilla looks better here too

[keen lion]

it's just brighter higher, which isn't the same as tonemapping. tonemapping by design pulls down information so it doesn't get clipped

setting White Clip to 1 is basically vanilla, telling it to clip everything above 1.0

white clip 100 means make room for up to 10,000 nits of inputs (100*100)

HDR Look button sets the clip point to like 1500 or 2000 nits I think. But that's kinda relative to how much range you want.

Common SDR tonemapping is like White Clip 4

[nova socket]

Reading this makes me wonder, if there is some kind of advanced user guide.
Usually I just leave everything default, aside of peak brightness and something like film grain, because I like that look.

[subtle mantle]

most mods are designed to look correct out of the box. reads monitors peak from windows and sets paperwhite/ui accordingly. the numbers on most mods at "default" settings are also not necessarily default, the mode could be doing whatever it wants.

some mods also have buttons at the bottom for preset looks

but unless the mod author says otherwise, stock settings are fine

for this mod specially i prefer stock settings but theres a vanilla like and an hdr look option too

[nova socket]

I thought as much, since it always looks great to me, so far.
It's more out of curiosity and the joy of learning something new about a topic I like.

[keen lion]

it's generally defaulted for HDR usage. SDR is there but for a game that blows through SDR limits, it'll be dimmer

[nova socket]

That makes sense, since that's exactly what I install it for in the first place. Honestly phenomenal to me, when software works great, out of the box.

[mellow obsidian]

Hello. Could you please tell me if there’s an Sdr mod similar to this one but for Tlou 2? Or is it not possible to make any adjustments there?

[subtle mantle]

To improve the SDR? Or did you mean hdr?

[mellow obsidian]

Yes , i mean improve SDR and some little banding

[mellow obsidian]

And one more question, do I need to use sdr eotf emulation if I have an SDR TV?

[agile crypt]

@atomic ferry

does the game only need reno or luma ?

the texture things i've seen around is included ?

[atomic ferry]

Bro I’ve played like 3 hours on release with like Reno

I’ve no idea how it’s changed since then

[agile crypt]

[atomic ferry]

[agile crypt]

Is it still the go to mods ?

Or is everything merged in reno

I'm confused

[mellow obsidian]

So , where to find this Donut fix+ Blur improvement ?

[sour leaf]

the donut I assume is on nexus as an optional file (although idk if it was updated post some patches so here it is just in case)

Silksong_Data\StreamingAssets\aa\StandaloneWindows64\atlases_assets_assets\sprites_atlases

and the blur mode is also on nexus as a different mod, I think its like the only one or the biggest one so you won't miss it (i just don't know if you allowed to post nexus links here)

It's called "Background Blur Improved"

[mellow obsidian]

Does it turn out that these two files work well in conjunction with the last asset from Renodx?

I saw a recent version of Atlas assets posted here earlier, while the version on Nexus at that time was outdated.

[sour leaf]

I mean I played silksong yesterday a little and it all seemed to be working fine

[sour leaf]

has everyone seen that Silksong "Pharlooms Glory" mod that restores Coral Gorge? It looks incredible!

[dusty pelican]

i have not

mods kinda suck ass for hollow knight

bricked one of my saves for the og game messing around with mods

[onyx sparrow]

what kind of mods did ya even use

also backup saves b4 cooking with mods

[dusty pelican]

yeah shoulda known better

[onyx sparrow]

gws 😢

[mellow obsidian]

@keen lion Hi. A new beta update for Silksong came out just yesterday. I recall you have the GamePass version, but perhaps something has changed since then. My question is: does the new update cause any issues with the Reno mod?

[atomic ferry]

just judging by the patchnotes i would say theres nothing mentioned that should break it.

[agile crypt]

@tropic radish try the donut fix

[tropic radish]

ty for the recommendation but I'm not fully sure what I'm meant to do with the bundle file 😭

[agile crypt]

put it in the folder mentioned above

Silksong_Data\StreamingAssets\aa\StandaloneWindows64\atlases_assets_assets\sprites_atlases

[tropic radish]

I just did that but there's still a bit of a noticeable circle this might be intentional but it looks kinda strange and kinda breaks immersion in my opinion 😭 is there anything I'm doing wrong or is this how it is meant to look like?

it's especially noticeable in darker areas

[agile crypt]

the texture is gone but the circle should be hero light

you can control it with the hero light slider i think

[tropic radish]

thank you for attempting to help but this might either be my monitor or it's just an unfixable issue exclusive to silksong since hollow knight doesn't have this issue for me 😭 I'll just try to ignore it while playing

[dusty pelican]

https://tenor.com/view/test-gif-12993999557818669691

[agile crypt]

looks fine to me tbh.

the texture fixed this specifically

oh wait

uhm

i'm still seeing it

when you installed the donut fix you did override the one already present right ?

oh well idk

[thick moss]

that's a shader problem, not a texture problem. luma fixes it

[agile crypt]

@tropic radish can try the silksong luma mod

[tropic radish]

after installing it, silksong looks like a horror game 😭 is it cuz I have renodx and luma installed at the same time or smth else

[agile crypt]

yeah use only one

[tropic radish]

okay ty :D it does seem to fix that issue fully! (why is everything grainy now tho 😭)

[agile crypt]

can you adjust filmgrain in the sliders ?

[tropic radish]

I'm not sure which sliders

I have a total of

3

[agile crypt]

ah well mb

[thick moss]

You need to disable the film Grain or noise in the game settings

[tropic radish]

it is disabled tho

[thick moss]

Ok. It's dithering

Only done on some textures.

[tropic radish]

this reminds me of the saying "pick your poison" 😭

how did this person get all of these fancy menus tho?

[onyx zealot]

this person = Pumbo

[thick moss]

luma shaders are in the files

u can change the dither bit depth to 7 or 8

it might already be exposed to the advanced settings tab, don't remember

[tropic radish]

also question why does it darken the image drastically while I'm screensharing to someone?

[tropic radish]

like specifically with luma

[thick moss]

That's discord or something. Probably doesn't support scRGB HDR

[keen lion]

bought the steam version finally

[mellow obsidian]

It will be interesting to know your opinion about the latest build, maybe there will be any improvements to your mod 🙂 If it's relevant, of course.

[nova socket]

Just some days ago I tested Luma, and it runs just fine. Unless Reno works very differently from that, I'd assume, it's still compatible.

[keen lion]

https://bartwronski.com/2016/10/30/dithering-part-three-real-world-2d-quantization-dithering/ they're using this dithering for the hero light now

just keep layering more and more dither algorithms

[subtle mantle]

did i miss an update?

[keen lion]

marth 15th

[subtle mantle]

oh i read through that one already

i guess its under "various minor fixes and tweaks" lol

[keen lion]

added the newer hero light shader and removed their hard clip at the edge

[subtle mantle]

hard clip at the edge of hero light finally fixed?

god is real?

[keen lion]

it wasn't in the texture

it was in the shader

[subtle mantle]

wat

[keen lion]

basically a dumb hack saying if alpha is less that 1% just leave it

[subtle mantle]

how do you manage to hard clip in a shader

[keen lion]

so there was no ramp to 0% alpha

[subtle mantle]

oh

[keen lion]

it ramped to 1% alpha

[subtle mantle]

yeah that uh

wow

[keen lion]

which is dumb because it's overengineered with the mesh they built

so not sure what they're trying to save

[subtle mantle]

im guessing its a case of not knowing any better

as most of their choices are

on the tech side

they seem to be not that up to date

[keen lion]

the vertex shader already is chopped up the texture to pieces, so it's not like you were fast alpha testing anything that mattered

at best it saves when the screen is blank? or results in black?

i just put it at 0.0001 and it's fine

so alpha to 1% becomes alpha to 0.01%

it's in a lot of places actually

i think i can fit somewhere else actually

let' ssee

r0.xyzw = t0.Sample(s0_s, v2.xy).xyzw;
  r1.x = r0.w * v1.w + -0.00999999978;
  r1.x = cmp(r1.x < 0);
  if (r1.x != 0) discard;

that's in all blending

src\games\hollowknight-silksong\render\blend_screen_0x85C89D5B.ps_4_0.hlsl

[subtle mantle]

is it possible they built some effects around that though? like techically some stuff would be dimmer towards the edge, right?

cause the gradient starts a bit earlier

[keen lion]

nah, just microoptimizaiton

[subtle mantle]

so 1 = .01, which fixes the hard clip because 0.01 is basically just not visible, right?

[keen lion]

it fades to 0.01% alpha now, not 1% alpha

ah there's a new blend shader

they probably added dither to that too

[subtle mantle]

right i meant how it worked orignally vs now
like the fading to a lower amount means it would technically be dimmer slightly closer to source right? i mean the difference is probably inpercievable but still

i feel like im explaing this poorly lol

[keen lion]

the difference is perceptible because you can see 1% to 0

[subtle mantle]

heres my shitty ms paint drawing that's hyper exaggerated

if you slope of to a lower value, it effects the whole slope, right?

am i thinking about this wrong? lol

[keen lion]

it's not sloping it's clamping

[subtle mantle]

does it extend out slightly further now then?

[keen lion]

yes

[subtle mantle]

oh

well

that would explain it then

LOL

i couldn't understand how it wouldn't effect everything

thought i was losing my mind

[keen lion]

basically doesn't start showing the glow until 1% alpha which is silly

[subtle mantle]

yeah i see now

very silly

[subtle mantle]

wait do you mean stops showing the glow at 1%?

[keen lion]

matter of perspective

if alpha would be less than 1%, then it doesn't draw anything on top of the base texture

[subtle mantle]

oh i see

because transparency and such

[keen lion]

it's a fast check and exits early assuming it wouldn't be visible

but 0% to 1% is visible

0% to 0.01% isn't

[subtle mantle]

from source to edge its 100 to 1 base game. you've basically extended it to 100 to 0.01

probably doesnt start at 100

but still

correct?

[keen lion]

yeah, basically center is full, and goes to 1%, but going to 0.01% is better

other blends are like that too, but the hero light is most noticeable

[subtle mantle]

i see

cool

[full bison]

just wanted to clarify: should luma/rendox be used separately for Silksong, or can they be used in tandem?

[sleek lantern]

cant be used in tandem no afaik

[undone notch]

They both serve the same goal area so. I've generally chosen Luma if available, it's what I've used for HK/Silksong.

[mellow obsidian]

Is your mod still up-to-date for Silksong, or should we expect it to be updated because of recent minor changes in the game?

Oh , just chek that you actually updated
hk-silksong: update hero light shaders

[mellow obsidian]

@keen lion A new update was released today, I tried to run it and I got an error in the add-on to the Solution, that is, some kind of add-on error 1114

The addon is your newest one, I downloaded it yesterday.

[keen lion]

you need reshade 6.7.3

[mellow obsidian]

Ahhh, that's the reason. Thanks 🙂

[vast barn]

does RenoDX's 'HDR Look' option still respect creator's intent or how the game would look if it actually had native HDR? I know it's the artist's preset basically. But is it still accurate? I like how colorful the game looks, but the thought of it not being accurate is in the back of my mind, so I tend to be torn between default/HDR Look in various games like HK Silksong, lol

[sleek lantern]

idk but i feel like hdr enhances the art in HK's case

[vast barn]

you mean the HDR Look option?

[sleek lantern]

either

[vast barn]

yeah I think the main difference HDR Look has is a good bit more highlight saturation, which looks really nice and appealing. it's also a bit more contrasty and moody looking! the way the lava looks is glorious too.

[sleek lantern]

i'd use hdr look myself

even if it technically is less accurate

[vast barn]

yeah

Think I will just use that honestly. Love the eye candy.

[keen lion]

A "Look", in grading sense, is not a 100% faithful port. It's an artistic expression. This one applies all the things commonly seen to show/exploit HDR. It's the application of that artistic look on top of the original look.

Default is like a port that is SDR+, if you will.

But when people think or even consume "HDR" it's usually with that look in mind.