#Randomizer troubles (not spoilered, enter at your own risk)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

exotic silo
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So, I am hard locked by.. something right now. I'm going to just compile a list of bugs here:

  • It seems that when certain items are gathered before their usual encounter, the item interaction is either missing or does not give an item. I noticed this in the following: Serene Topper, Observatory, and ???. There's a chance it also applies to the other Leviathan locations
  • The Vinyl Crafter is showing me 1/1 items obtained, but I know I have not used it as I am missing the duplicate rune, not sure what that's about (I did pick up the completed disc already, may be a case similar to above)
  • You're already aware, but Za pieces can show up as ingredient requirements, and once those are used that recipe is hard-locked. Ducks also get consumed upon putting them back in the game
  • I'm not sure if this is the case or not because the above bugs are impacting my save, but is it possible for recipe ingredients to be obtained from within the cafe, directly or otherwise? Let's say one of the ingredients comes from the piano, but one of the piano keys is located in the cafe, or is the output of another recipe?

I have a list of other places a hard-lock could occur:

  • Piano keys are required for the item the piano spits out
  • Duplication is required for the Vinyl Crafter
  • Goo and Smoke are required (I believe) in Library Bridge and Harmony Lobby
  • Floah-Rah needs four tools which can't end up being her reward
  • Za obviously shouldn't be able to gift a piece as a reward
  • No painting scraps should end up in the Painter's Gallery or Studio
  • The Duck minigame should not contain ducks as a reward
  • The stars used to claim prizes in the carnival should not be prizes in the carnival as that makes it possible to hard-lock
  • I don't think it's mathematically possible for Gahrtz to have enough gummies in his levels to lock other levels but mentioning it just in case
  • There are certain levels such as Precarious Shells which I believe require the player to have fire in order to burn down a door so it can't contain the fire rune
  • Places like sllehS cuoiracerP and Failing Cellar I believe require the player to be able to make themselves small (there is the tile in the Painted Cave though, I'm not sure if you're counting on that being a backup step or not)
  • I could not figure out how to solve Side by ediS without teleport so if that ends up on the right hand side I think that locks the player out entirely, this also goes for Factory Heart and Rainbow Gates and Cage
  • Disc is required by Harmony Hall and shouldn't be the reward for playing the disc
  • Cathedral Connection, Crawl and Climax requires a combo of any of the material runes so shouldn't have all four (I think this is more nuanced, for instance the player can do the whole Cathedral with just smoke but I don't think that will work with just ice due to Cathedral Communion?)
  • I believe at least one material rune/null is required to get into the Reefed Refuge via Duck Boat Dock, unless it's possible for players to bridge or jump in a way to get in (I haven't tested it)
  • Getting up to places is pretty difficult without smoke, rise, dummy/sensor/sequencer/proxy, and magnetize, so they probably shouldn't all be in a high up area (Castle Outside comes to mind)

I tried to pick the ones with the most obvious locks but I also don't know how much these have been planned for already so I'm sure there are oversights here and/or locks that are already guaranteed not to happen. If anyone else sees a potential lock please list them, I also think it would be fun to hunt for the bare minimum requirements for some of these as a community

unborn spruce
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thanks for this! the list is super helpful!!!
ill put out a patch later for the more easy to fix one like the za pieces and the ducks and then ill work on some more complex logic to help if you get locked out of the specific ones

cloud ruin
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I've gotten through the door that leads to reefed refuge without transmuting the chaos liquid. Don't know about some of the others but that one's possible I'm pretty sure (if we're talking about the same thing)

cloud ruin
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I'm also pretty sure cathedral communion can be solved without smoke.

exotic silo
exotic silo
# cloud ruin I'm also pretty sure cathedral communion can be solved without smoke.

This is true, but that's not what I meant. You can go the entire cathedral without smoke, but you can't go the entire cathedral with just one other material rune - which means they can't all be in Connection, or have three of them in Connection and ice be accessible
Although now that I'm thinking about it some portal shenanigans might work there, though that does now mean you couldn't lock all material and portal in Connection and beyond, you see how this logic can get messy lol

cloud ruin
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Why is that? What requires the material runes

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(this is very impractical and maybe impossible but I wonder if it's possible to transport electricity to those areas that need a power source using Rhell)

exotic silo
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Would have to get my game open to remember the room names but the one with the water tunnel... Or can that be done with self area void and a movement rune? Then communion, which I think needs a material or portal.. maybe you can do it with duplication too

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Self not required, I just woke up and self area is my go to solution for most problems lmao

cloud ruin
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Can't you do the water tunnel with a source of downward momentum?

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You could probably use any automaton to do that (maybe not sequencer)

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plus slam

exotic silo
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Oh can you? I thought you moved too slow to get anywhere

cloud ruin
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I don't know I haven't tried

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I could also see the world where you use proxy + portal

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And then get the proxy through

exotic silo
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I think that one can just be taken off the list for now until more finalized solution hunting can take place

cloud ruin
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yep, I have confirmed that all of Cathedral is solvable with no element spells

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and no portal

ember forge
cloud ruin
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Cage is the only problematic one, I solved it with area + slam + void

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Oh wait i didn't actually do climax lmao

ember forge
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for that one

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you can just die

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and very quickly just

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go and jam it

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with yourself

cloud ruin
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yeah i didn't expect that one to not work

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i'm gonna try it with portals but no area

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ok no, weird

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You can also intangible yourself

ember forge
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that's what i did

cloud ruin
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Okay lmao i think it MIGHT be possible to solve library bridge without smoke

ember forge
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oh

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portal dummy

cloud ruin
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or portals

ember forge
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on the other side of door

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i did that

cloud ruin
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no clipping through the door

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Rhell's elemental conditions persist across different screens

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Even if you fast travel

hushed meadow
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electric dummy on top of the input

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is how I did it

cloud ruin
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yeah but you need smoke for that

hushed meadow
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how so?

cloud ruin
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electric is goo+smoke

hushed meadow
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oh tru

cloud ruin
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So if you go to "Red Staged" specifically

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There's a pre-made electric dummy

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So potentially you could get electrified and carry that electricity over on one clone but not the other to library bridge.

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Then make something to keep the charge.

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It would not be easy but MAYBE.

hushed meadow
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I DID IT

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it should be noted this WAS on a 100% save, so I had full access to using goo/smoke/portal, but I don't think it should be any different if you didn't

exotic silo
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Oof, Royal Sage just gave me a memory piece, that is possible without collecting all four with portal though

hushed meadow
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theres a cool secret backdoor way to get down the royal sage's tower without any memories ;)

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(that isnt portal related)

exotic silo
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Well I 100%d everything else, no reason to hold it from me now Rhell_Creature

hushed meadow
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there may or may not be a chandelier that is not secured well enough

flat rapids
ember forge
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OH