YALD (Yet Another License Discussion)

[merry shard]

Post stuff in here people

[sinful vigil]

its not a derivative, so it does not break the license

[whole mountain]

Whether it is a proof of concept doesn't matter, from looking at the page for 1 minute, yes it breaks licence

[merry shard]

How are you basing this decision?

E.g. The art assets for tungsten things or other fuels are derived from the original ones by chucking them into photoshop. Thats a derivation. Its literally on the page.

[sinful vigil]

?

send a link, i do not know of this

[merry shard]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/IndustrialRevolution3AssetsExtras

[sinful vigil]

oh yeah THAT would be against the license

if it wasnt uploaded itd be fine

[muted osprey]

ir3 for SA 🤮

[sinful vigil]

i thought you meant the original patchset

[sinful vigil]

*overhauls in general

[merry shard]

I hate to break the guy's heart, because he did good work for Black Rubber Belts, which can be considered technical repair to "make it work" for a later game version (okay, turbo belts were added)

[muted osprey]

yeah the modified sprites cant be uploaded. they have to be entirely unique

[sinful vigil]

wow, who could have seen going around the license causing issues

[muted osprey]

i think black rubber belts redux also has license issues...

[sinful vigil]

i think so too

i dont know exactly though

has this been mentioned on that mods discussion page/to the dev?

[muted osprey]

CC ND means no distribution/modification even to get around technical limitations

[worthy elm]

This in fact is license breaking, so I would recommend to mirror it to github instead and make the mod an emptyfile that links there.

[merry shard]

Wanted to get community consensus before I made a post, but if one of you are already mashing their keyboard then go nuts.

[whole mountain]

That is just just breaking the licence elsewhere

[sinful vigil]

was about too but go make a post

[muted osprey]

did you shoot them in the arm?
no officer, i shot them in the foot

[sinful vigil]

i havent started

[worthy elm]

Yes; it doesn't make it legal lol

[muted osprey]

make it and we'll updoot it

same for rubber belts

[sinful vigil]

mhm

[whole mountain]

Don't tell codeGreen, he literally said this yesterday

[sinful vigil]

i’d be surprised if he doesnt see this soon

[worthy elm]

Shadow (the author) doesn't seem to be on discord

[muted osprey]

just make a new fucking mod dammit

[whole mountain]

Then why are you recommending it? Or is my dyslexia dyslexianing and I missunderstood your message?

[muted osprey]

why do people have to keep bringing back old ones

[sinful vigil]

people like the old ones

and IR3 does look nice

[worthy elm]

I did say recommend so no problem. I meant so the author doesn't get in wube trouble; that's why.

[whole mountain]

ehhhh kinda

[brave zinc]

most people are not creative enough to make good overhaul mods

[worthy elm]

What I would suggest is leaving a "license issues thread" and see how the author responds because we don't even know if they know they're breaking license

[muted osprey]

i think pointing to a license breaking thing via a mod still breaks license

[sinful vigil]

speak of the devil

[brave zinc]

empty mod pointing to github which breaks license is still breaking the licence, just not enforceable by wube directly

[whole mountain]

As someone that has tried to make one and failed, yeah defo

[sinful vigil]

i think this is the most airtime deadlock has gotten since 2.0

[muted osprey]

i think the empty mod pointing is still breaking and would be removed

[muted osprey]

get good or stop trying smh. im tired of lazy ass refits of the same 4 mods

[brave zinc]

an empty mod has nothing license breaking in it

[worthy elm]

I just posted that to keep author out of wube trouble and to not trouble the devs

[brave zinc]

it's like me saying "hey guys this website has pirated media on it"

I'm not the one doing the pirating

and analagous to the example, the empty mod does not contain the license breaking material

[worthy elm]

In fact I think Code/mods shouldn't be troubled too (if the author were to refuse then you do need mod escalation)

I'll make the thread in the mod then

[muted osprey]

rather, the advertising of 'pirated media' in this case would break license so the ad (empty mod) would be removed

cause otherwise its giving free reign for people to put up ads to things that break licenses and EULA

[merry shard]

Already there.

[worthy elm]

wait.... what!

[whole mountain]

Well you are saying "hey guys my website has media I pirated on it"

[worthy elm]

There's tons of IR3 stuff on the mod portal

[muted osprey]

yup

this is the only one so far that breaks license

[whole mountain]

somehow

[sinful vigil]

can we just wipe deadlock entirely, let this end /silly

[brave zinc]

all the IR3 stuff on the portal right now is either reskinning IR3 entities using new graphics or shell mods that are just instructions on how to edit the mod yourself

the former is normal and fine, the latter is questionable but still technically legal

[worthy elm]

I mean if somebody wants a FOSS remake we can have that instead

[brave zinc]

patchset just takes the latter a step further

[muted osprey]

make a community edition FOSS. please. end this license madness

[merry shard]

I'm not gonna tell anyone to download it now while its still up....

-# buuuuuuttttt

-# dont because that would get me banned for advocating not legal things

[brave zinc]

why would I downloaded photoshopped IR3 assets

what use would I have for license breaking material

can't use it in my own mods, nor would I want to

please let IR3 die

[whole mountain]

I would be willing to do that because by the end it would be it's own thing that I would be proud of

[sinful vigil]

“what if hurricane assets but you can only look at them and not touch”

[brave zinc]

except hurricane assets are better tbh

[sinful vigil]

True

[muted osprey]

i still think black rubber belts remaster is breaking CCBYNCND, even if it is a 'technical fix' it does more than just technical fixes

[whole mountain]

then don't touch idiot

[whole mountain]

much

[sinful vigil]

hurricane assets are very much factorio-y, i like IR3 assets but yeah

[worthy elm]

Manufacturing resistance sounds like a good alternative to the IR mod overhaul :P

[whole mountain]

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/black-rubber-belts-remastered/discussion/694aa1528f870395600399c5 been adressed and dismissed

[muted osprey]

dont tempt me im almost finished with my last back burner mod 😭

[worthy elm]

I actually don't even know what IR3 is even about or even if it was fun at all

[merry shard]

I am glad I opened the thread
I knew this was going to be a 10+msg/m shitstorm and I was right.

[whole mountain]

I want to make a group project so I can focus on the parts I like about mod making

[brave zinc]

porting black rubber belts to 2.0 is not a "technical fix" to change the format of the mod, it's still a fucking mod

[sinful vigil]

yo go through phases of power generation

steam is the first

[muted osprey]

literally admits to not complying with license restrictions omfg

[sinful vigil]

i never got past the first stage

[merry shard]

Its small beans compared to this tbf. Doesn't make it any more legal, but still.

[whole mountain]

Modern art

[brave zinc]

no, but someone took it a step further from just talking about it to actually doing it

I cannot stand people who try to justify stealing other people's work

[sinful vigil]

can we not just report this to wube directly? /gen
-# made me realise theres no report button on the mod portal

[merry shard]

sensible_chuckle.pdf

[muted osprey]

i dont have a pitchfork but have one of these🍴

[worthy elm]

no mod button because it's rarely used and easily abusable

[sinful vigil]

mhm

i know why there isnt, i just never clocked it

[whole mountain]

yeah the lack of button was something we talked about like 2 days ago lol

[brave zinc]

done

[sinful vigil]

ty

[muted osprey]

it was like deja vu... deadlock discussions, licenses, reporting...

[sinful vigil]

now, to go buy some popcorn

[worthy elm]

somehow deadlocks mod catches all the violations, SE and pY just chill :P

[muted osprey]

SE had a few in 1.1 but not too many

people dont even try with pY :P

[worthy elm]

That code is certainly something :p

[sinful vigil]

yeah because no-one wants the art /silly

[muted osprey]

recently:#mod-dev-showcase message

[sinful vigil]

does look peak as fuck

[brave zinc]

py is too complicated to even attempt copying anything from

and SE is currently being worked on so people have no reason to port

[muted osprey]

people try to copy graphics occasionally

[sinful vigil]

people will copy the idea (and then give up), but not the code 😔

[whole mountain]

protocol is sus? self report? amongus?

[brave zinc]

protocol works on py

[muted osprey]

updated for factorio style GUI

[brave zinc]

thank you

[worthy elm]

If I were to do anything to pY it's just easier to depend on py-post-processing and then change the data stage however you want. No need to steal

[brave zinc]

I was going to strangle you later if it didn't get updated

[muted osprey]

i was working on porting it to 2.0, then features, then graphics

dont worry :)

[whole mountain]

yeah I have asked protocol for PySex many times, apparently I am not attactive enough

[brave zinc]

perhaps use recipe category styles on the big buttons instead of slot buttons

[sinful vigil]

protocol can i get you to make the PM manifesto /s

[muted osprey]

perhaps dm me later

[whole mountain]

looks much better imo, looks great

[muted osprey]

hm perhaps

[whole mountain]

Can I write flavour text? I love flavour text!

[sinful vigil]

(or “An Engineers Guide To The Elements (Or, How I Learned To Stop Worrying And Love The Ratios)”)

[sinful vigil]

i too love flavour text, so maybe

[muted osprey]

let me pull out my, handy dandy style explorer mod to look up cool UI things

[sinful vigil]

im still not sure if i even need to add it after the factoriopedia but

[merry shard]

polite reminder people are still in the thread and not #mod-dev-discussion in case thats important information

[sinful vigil]

oh good point

[brave zinc]

#mod-dev-discussion message

[worthy elm]

I'm guessing thread dies because there's not much more to it. Let IR3 die and FOSS it instead

[whole mountain]

What dose FOSS mean?

[muted osprey]

free and open source software

[whole mountain]

oh yeah that acronym

[merry shard]

I wonder how long until people will just also not care about the license itself and just distribute anyway. I mean, does Wube have a legal responsibility to help DL sue people? Does it make them liable themselves or an accessory by not enforcing licenses?

[sinful vigil]

its in their EULA

[muted osprey]

and the latter of your question is yes

more liable and accessory

[merry shard]

Hmm, interesting.

[whole mountain]

When it comes to IP, if you don't enfore it, you lose it. THis is very simplifed

[sinful vigil]

theres also the part where they can take down your mod at any time for any reason, without the need for explanation

[worthy elm]

Deadlock is kinda dead; that's true. IDK if they even care about forks

[sinful vigil]

(of course they dont without a justified reason)

[slow comet]

Just trademarks, I believe.

[whole mountain]

They cared before so why wouldn’t they care now

[muted osprey]

they care cause if they let small things slip then big companies can come by, see the precident, and sue for noncompliance if something of theres pops up for even a second

[whole mountain]

Tis why I said very simplified

[sinful vigil]

cough satisfactorio cough music packs cough cough character reskins

[whole mountain]

Such as the Endfield mods, right now

[whole mountain]

The amount of pirated music on the portal is astonishing lol

[merry shard]

Well thats on the side of Wube's power over you as a licensee-consumer of their IP. If you screw up, then you get your priveleges revoked/you get banned, you get blacklisted from their goods and services.

I'm focusing specifically to what extent and how seriously DL could quite literally ring up a lawyer and say "hey, this and that, license went unrespected, sue wube pls." and the lawyer going ahead with it.

But I think Protocol already answered that.

[whole mountain]

Also surprised Satisfactory has never done a Terraria style crossover with Factorio or vice versa

[sinful vigil]

i mean sounds like something deadlock would do, but also it seems kind of.. fruitless?

[muted osprey]

rather, that sort of action can only come around if a formal complaint is filed and ignored then wube can be sued

[worthy elm]

It's unknowable (until you contact them). I care about making cold chain logistics performant today but I will probably stop caring in 5 years. Not defending it, just saying.

[sinful vigil]

unless the person comitting the breakage is adamant at not rectifying it, and wube doesnt do anything (which they would), then yeah sure sue them

[merry shard]

Yeah, which brings me back to my original point. If the endeavour might be potentially fruitless, then many people might just start to realize the toothlessness of DL's use of BY-ND-NC

[sinful vigil]

if i hated myself enough and didn’t care that wube was already told (and hated everyone else, presumably) - i’d just contact deadlock

maybe its a good thing he had no contact info

[merry shard]

Like the werewolves attacking hogwarts scene once the shield goes down.

[whole mountain]

But an educated guess says he still would care

[worthy elm]

I agree

[merry shard]

fair point

[brave zinc]

I do think using copyrighted material from outside factorio is a much different topic than using other people's factorio content

[sinful vigil]

well yeah, ofc

[whole mountain]

So deadlock is still alive irl they just left?

[brave zinc]

the shrek mod is literally made by one of the devs

deadlock quit modding because of 2.0 fluids

[sinful vigil]

…yes

[sinful vigil]

wait really? never noticed

[merry shard]

spicy take, ngl 🦆

[whole mountain]

No fucking way really?

[worthy elm]

are any of us alive irl? outside the factorio discord

/j

[brave zinc]

there's a thread on the forums

[sinful vigil]

i can confirm im not

[brave zinc]

couldn't find it for the life of me but it's there

[slow comet]

It was quite annoying to get all of the fluidbox connections working.

[sinful vigil]

still the weirdest thing to leave over, not redoing his mod, not the factoriopedia, not space age

fucking fluids??

[worthy elm]

pY stuff is broken because of it :( but it's no big deal (in pY)

[merry shard]

-# not the tips and tricks / menu simulations >.>

[whole mountain]

Also it is fixable and the changes were made for the better imo

[slow comet]

Menu simulation worked with surprisingly little effort. Tips & Tricks I might try to fix, but they never worked in 1.1.

[sinful vigil]

i’d have loved to hear his opinions on quality or any other “controversial” thing in factorio rn

[worthy elm]

If you really want it, you can have your special pipes that graphically (but not logically) connect and run the entire simulation inside lua in control, right?

[whole mountain]

I am not an expert when it comes to code, everything else I am quite knowledgeable just not code so idk

[brave zinc]

not fluidboxes, the fluid system

fluidbox change could have happened with 1.1 fluids

[worthy elm]

I really dont like that the only ok sign in the server is named hahayes

[sinful vigil]

god 1.0 fluidboxes, may they rot in peace

[slow comet]

You mean, he didn't like the new Thermal Expansion-esque system?

[muted osprey]

rot? rest. they were perfect

[sinful vigil]

i think i saw the forum he made about it, or im thinking of something else

[worthy elm]

because 👌 =/=

[sinful vigil]

they were hellish

more ways to break, harder to figure out, larger in general

[whole mountain]

What do you mean?

[sinful vigil]

TE is mentioned in the fluid FFF

[slow comet]

https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-416

[sinful vigil]

glad (nearly called him hakita 😭) raiguard was allowed to write out “grab your best lube”

[whole mountain]

Yes that is what they mean

[whole mountain]

There is an update, turns out people are just ignoreing the license now

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/IndustrialRevolution3AssetsExtras/discussion/699b779234e06dda7fead239

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/IndustrialRevolution3AssetsExtras/discussion/699b7986f75cc90aebc62808

@merry shard Forgot to add you to the previous message

[muted osprey]

aint no way

[whole mountain]

what aint no way?

[muted osprey]

people just ignoring licenses

[whole mountain]

It annoys me to no end

[whole mountain]

Then I'll just only use Malcolm Riley's Unused Renders exclusively (as do a large portion of mods currently hosted here), remove "Industrial Revolution 3" from the title, and this won't even be a talking point :)
This is what you should have done in the first place, let deadlock die!

[sinful vigil]

-# or learn how to use blender

[whole mountain]

It isn’t as hard as people think, I want to try to recreate the quake key cards in blender soon

[merry shard]

removing it from the title only is silly, the mod slug is still there. It just shouldn't have been uploaded in the first place, nor with that name.