Better Gleba Experience - Factorio Mods

[novel raft]

but the point of using biochamber is fact that you have to use nutrients to power it up which means that you don't need that much electricity for automation right after landing.

Main thing that slow you down in early game is the fact that automating basic resources require bacteria, not the fact that you have to use nutrients

Slow early game can be partially improved by building small first base nest to yummako farm so you don't need that much iron for belts because fruit is suprisingly good source of nutrients. That still does not provide a lot but waste and additional friuts can be used to provide heat with heating tower.

which gives small ammount of power, and nutrients, and now you only need to setup second farm

[mental hatch]

nutrients slow you down by a lot, because you need to include additional nutrients belt for everything which complicates every single design

[novel raft]

but that's how this planet and bioprocessing works
and you will have to do it anyway, so rebuild half of base into one that is using nutrients

this is just attempt of avoiding planet not making early game easier.

At least that's how it looks like
I know that you don't rly like this planet

[mental hatch]

rebuilding your whole base to make it more efficient (thanks to new machines) is kind of the gameplay loop of space age, isn't it?

[novel raft]

it is but no machine is powered for free

[mental hatch]

this is just attempt of avoiding planet not making early game easier.
it's just pushing some of the planet complexity to later stage which makes early game easier
exactly how it works with basic/advanced oil in vanilla

[novel raft]

not rly
because by removing nutrients as power source you can now use it anywhere without rly any drawbacks.

oil changes recipes
in this case you changes powering

Even if it is slower you can just scale it up and never care about nutrients

which is not great for planet

[mental hatch]

using basic biochamber is space inefficient, so if you want to be very efficient it's still better to use a normal one

[novel raft]

nutrients slow you down by a lot, because you need to include additional nutrients belt for everything which complicates every single design
or you can just scale it up and never care about mechanic because it is to complex to incorporate compared to just building more

it should be powered somehow

even if not with nutrients

you know what I mean?

[mental hatch]

I know, with power source set to "void" is a bit too op

I guess i can just make it power by electricity, but then I would need to do some tests what is a good power consumption for it to not make fuelling it even harder

[novel raft]

did not launched mod yet
does it has prod bonus?

[mental hatch]

it's a proof of concept which I made in 1h

it's just a deep copy of normal biochamber with power set to void

[novel raft]

oh okay
prod bonus also should be lower than with better one to be extra sure people will choose nutrinet powering if chasing better productivity in factory

15%?

20?

[mental hatch]

what kind of prod do you need to have enough seeds for landfill?

because making the bonus too small will make early farms expansion very hard

but on the other hand you won't need to consume fruits for nutrients, so smaller farms will be fine

[novel raft]

you know what

there could be another idea

because you can process seeds with assembler and it have negative ratio

maybe recipe that doubles seed but cut in half fruits?

alternative recipe*

with positive seed flow from assembler you can safely setup early processing and make sure farm don't die randomly

maybe something like that?

[novel raft]

i will calculate it give me a sec

50 fruits per tree gives 0.02
so you get single seed if you always have luck

but you don't

so any ammount of prod should make it positive loop

as far as i know this ratio was made to make people want use biochambers in the first place so it could be a trap if you add alternative recipe

[mental hatch]

I think 25% prod on basic biochamber would be big enough to make people use it outside of gleba and be low enough to make them consider using normal one at some point

[novel raft]

yea that could work

[mental hatch]

also normal biochamber has 4 module slots right?

I will make it 2

[novel raft]

yea

good idea

[mental hatch]

like I said it's proof of concept right now

[novel raft]

sure
balance on gleba is tough
because hardest thing is that it is different than rest of the game

I am not sure I found better way to make early game easier/more enjoyable than just playing it more XD

till the point i started to like it

[mental hatch]

most of my experience with gleba is on limited technology (either start on gleba or rush gleba as first planet)
and dealing with this planet on yellow belts + without cliff explosives is extremely hard

[novel raft]

If you don't rly like it then why go on it first?

[mental hatch]

when I talked about gleba with kovarex he always goes there with shit ton of technology and resources from other planets

and gleba on green belts is a different gameplay than gleba on yellow ones

[novel raft]

It is
but it is the same as for going into fulgora wiith stack inserters

(which is rly nice)

[mental hatch]

I'm a content creator and people simply enjoy watching other suffer xd

[novel raft]

I also go gleba first but because I like it

[novel raft]

I would say having high quantity of any belts helps a lot

or some sort of space mall that makes them

[mental hatch]

you sounds like you are running away from building a mall on gleba 😛

[novel raft]

not rly
but you need long belts to setup farms in the first place and that takes the most amount of time in my case

automating iron before I have farms is kinda my pain point

because I need iron to automate iron

other than that it's few cosy days with blueprints

anyway
2 module electric version with less productivity but not powered by nutrient sound much better than just slower version with void 😅

[dire goblet]

Good mod @mental hatch! I have a good amount of experience with playing Gleba early, and it's solid. This change might make Hard Gleba more playable for people

linked it from the page

[mental hatch]

damn, now I have to polish it

[young gate]

Am I understanding this right in that you can just make a build with 4x the footprint to avoid interacting with nutrients? If so, perhaps the tier 0 biochamber should also not have any bonus productivity so there is more incentive to upgrade once you're past the "early game" of gleba.

[novel raft]

idea is that is has to have some productivity

because of seeds ratio

but I am also concerned about not using nutrients in biochamber

[young gate]

I'm just thinking that footprint isn't such a huge concern for many players, so building a bit bigger would be totally feasible longterm

[novel raft]

yea

[rancid topaz]

If it produced pollution/spores it would not be usable at a large scale

[rain flint]

Reading all that, probably I wouldn't change from void chambers to nutrient ones, until UPS starts to drop 😉
Having it create spores as @rancid topaz suggests would be a nice counterweight

[novel raft]

Oh
This is very good one

[novel raft]

Void -> electric

Just void would probably break the game

[mental hatch]

After getting some feedback I nerfed the basic biochamber quite a lot to make it less viable option mid/late game

• Modules slots: 4 -> 0
• Productivity bonus: 50% -> 25%
• Crafting speed: 2x -> 0.5x
• Power usage: nutrients -> electricity (50kW)
• Beacons: affected by beacons -> not affected
• Pollution: reduce pollution (-1) -> produce pollution (1)

to give you some comparison in mid game setup:
Biochamber on the left produces 18.5 mash/s
Basic Biochamber on the right produces 1.25 mash/s
which means basic Biochamber is 15 times slower

[rain flint]

My recommendation, so it can trigger attacks on Gleba as well:
emissions_per_minute = { pollution = 1, spores = 1 }
This would add spores on Gleba and pollution on Nauvis.

[mental hatch]

there can be only one type of pollution on surface, so pollution = spores right?

hmm, so there is both
https://lua-api.factorio.com/latest/types/AirbornePollutantID.html

[novel raft]

On surface

Yes
But one building can emit multiple types of pollution

So spores on gleba
And
Pollution pollution on nauvis

[novel raft]

Not sure if this exact code but something like that

[mental hatch]

I think that exact code would work, here is the current one

basic_biochamber.energy_source =
{
    type = "electric",
    usage_priority = "secondary-input",
    emissions_per_minute = {pollution = 1}
}```

[novel raft]

Yea probably
Try it

[mental hatch]

ok so now it makes spores and pollution, but I wonder if spores = 1 wouldn't be too much

[novel raft]

You never would want a lot of these chambers
So no
It's fine i think

Im someone will try to spam them instead of switching to nutrients he will be hitting himself with pentapods

Sounds good

[rain flint]

Yeah, it probably should make less spores than pollution, since it is a stronger pollutant.
1 Tower generates 40 spores in 10 minutes + 47*15 ~ 705 spore for harvesting the trees.
so around 11 spores/m for 240/m fruit.

Could go deeper into calculations, but just try a number between 0.5-1 by gut feeling

[novel raft]

I would stick with one