Hey, I recently disovered that you can build a train network with the train parameters using interrupts. But I am not quite sure I understand what makes it better than the good ol fashined dedicated trains... Any ideas why one might use it?
#Advantages of non-dedicated trains
ebon wind
robust summit
i havnt bothered with it. if you dont see the need, ez to skip
but people use it to have fewer trains transport different items. also refuel interupts. i always just default to normal refueling at station as they travel through
finite void
The main "advantage" is that you can theoretically serve many different item types, while having minimal number of trains on the network.
Instead of having 1 train each for 
and 
and 
ore,
You could instead have 1 single train that takes care of them all.
That's about it for advantages.
And even then, it's a fairly weak thing to be the lone entry in the "advantages" list.
Especially for vanilla game, where just plopping down more locomotives and wagons is very cheap in regards to materials.
For downsides....
Its incredibly complex to implement.
You get a very basic system running, and then you run into problems cos the system isn't behaving in ways you want it to.
So you implement a complex fix to the way train stops are enabling, or how the interrupts work, or whatever else, and it fixes that one issue.
And then you realize you need the system to also allow for this other thing, and implementing the fix for that, while also dancing around your previous stuff so it doesn't break, and so on and so on.
I personally reached for generic trains because the Modpack I'm playing, Pyanodons, adds an immense number of recipes and items, most crafting processes had "byproduct" stuff that I needed to deal with, and also trains are incredibly expensive to craft.
So dealing with maximal item types, while having minimal trains required, is highly appealing.
For base game, I'd only suggest reaching for generic trains if the goal is to do it on principle, for the sake of figuring out how to do it.
ebon wind
whoaa, thanks for the fast and long answer :3
high mural
What they also didn’t mention (directly, anyways) is that your trains for low-demand items might spend the majority of their time idle, whereas logistic/non-dedicated trains can continue to serve other resources
Though you could make trains dedicated to two resources using interrupts
finite void
A mixed system of mostly dedicated trains for high throughput items, and a handful of generic trains which handle the very low throughput items, is very much an option.
But honestly even then.....
If you pull 350 iron plates, 70 steel plates, and 15 copper plates from your furnace stacks, you can hand craft an entire 1 locomotive + 1 wagon train in 4 minutes. (Ignoring that engines can't be hand crafted)
But my point is, trains are so dirt cheap in the base game, that the "cost" of having a dedicated train wait idle for a low throughput items is just not that much.
shell parrot
Overall in vanilla generic trains are not good
You consistently need basically all resources and trains are cheap as hell
tired nexus
I like it because it decouples trains from factories. Every train has the same schedule, and simply pasting a station blueprint is enough to add it to the network. If you feel your stuff is not being delivered, copy paste a train. In the end, it kinda feels like the bot network, where all you have to do is all I/O chests and enough bots
sacred frost
It’s way easier to manage than manually doing the routes for all the different item types. I really don’t think it’s at all “incredibly complex” to set up.
In my world:
- Every item pickup station is named “Item Pickup” and has an appropriate train limit set.
- Every item drop off station is named for what it receives, using the item icon in the station name (“
Dropoff”, “
Dropoff”) and has an appropriate train limit set. - All the trains are in the Bag Of Trains group together, and there’s enough of them to fill the stations
- The schedule for the group contains a single entry: Go to Item Pickup and wait until full.
- The group has an interrupt instructing it to drop off whatever it carries at a matching station.
And they manage themselves. If I add a new station to the network I just paste a couple more trains in.
brisk geyser
Honestly, bots are the best comparison for trains. Only these bots can haul hundreds of stacks of random crap at once at pretty respectable speeds and only be 1 "bot".
finite void
Honestly, bots are the best comparison for trains. Only these bots can haul hund...
the place where that breaks down a little is when trying to implement any "bot" things beyond "red chests" and "blue chests".
finite void
It’s way easier to manage than manually doing the routes for all the different i...
this sort of setup will still result in 1 train "needing" to be at each pickup station.
if i have a pickup station for items A, B, C, and D, I'll need 4 trains. one for each item type.
which.... isn't much different functionally from just assigning each of the trains to an item type explicitly. even if the trains are, technically, "generic".
brisk geyser
the place where that breaks down a little is when trying to implement any "bot" ...
Few comparisons are perfect.
And honestly you can do a lot of shit with just those two anyway.
finite void
no disagreements from me on either of those points
eternal pelican
It’s way easier to manage than manually doing the routes for all the different i...
Wouldn't that lead to trains picking up an item but not necessarily needing to drop it off? So it could end up idle in the drop off station waiting to be emptied?
pliant hazel
yes
it's about the same as having dedicated trains, with only enough to fill the supply stations
but a bit worse than that
eternal pelican
I've messes around with generic trains a little. I found the best way is having a dedicated depo. That tells the train what it should go pick up and drop off based on what the system needs. You can use radar signals to allow the system to communicate its demand and what's on the way to track if requests are being satisfied. The main drawback is I haven't found a way to get multiple depots working, so the trains can only be set so quickly. And of course they have to travel to the pickup then dropoff as opposed to just dropoff. Hands down easy to use and set-up, just paste them down and watch them go type thing. But the second throughput is higher it tends to underperform.
pliant hazel
you can have multiple depots by cycling through them
pliant hazel
depots shouldn't care about which item, just which train
can let the train pick the item from the available signals
eternal pelican
I have it send the highest signal to the train
So whatever is in highest demand the train gets sent to fill
Then the stations have priority and train limits to determine which gets the trains first
Definitely could refine the circuits, it's very janky
exotic harbor
i build a city blocks with generic trains and its working quite well
the best thing ist that if u scale things up thr trais dont care, the can do everything
fallow glade
Personally I avoid scheduling the trains via circuits, only train limits and interrupts.
Trying to "optimize" the usage of trains by ensuring a train only go pickup something when it can drop it off is too complex and finicky to be worth it.
Plus, trains are meant to move items in bulk, so a train sitting at a pickup when full isn't that much of a downside IMO.
finite void
Squeezing the last drops of optimization out of a system that has long since stopped giving good returns on the effort spent there is something some people find worthwhile on principle.
Generic trains and developing a system that has robust features, using only basic tools provided by the base game, is something you do for the sake of the process, not for the results.
I almost certainly would have never bothered with the bitshifts and bitwise operators in ACs had i not been pushed towards them out of necessity, while trying to make a good generic trains system. And in the end, while I did abandon the system for a different one, I'm better off for having gone through the process.
pliant hazel
the main advantage i see is the journey to making multi-cargo trains picking up from 1+ stations and dropping off to one
but i don't think i've seen anybody actually do it, they always stop short
finite void
Not accounting for multiple item types through the same station is ultimately the flaw that drove me to abandon my system made out of vanilla parts, and to seek a mod instead.
And there's at least 3 mods that I'm aware of that make generic trains for more feasible, cos they deal with a lot of the stuff in the background instead of you having to manage everything via combinators and interrupts.
finite void
the main advantage i see is the journey to making multi-cargo trains picking up ...
Oh.
I read this wrong at first. I read "sushi stations", where 1 station handles more than 1 type of item.
You're talking about "sushi trains" where a train gets loaded with multiple items, in a generic way.
Yeah that's wild.
Idk how that'd be accomplished
finite void
Oh sure.
You can have sushi trains get loaded at sushi stations or single-item stations.
And single-items trains can load/unload at both sushi stations and single-item stations
They're just different, mutually inclusive, concepts.
I've only ever done sushi trains as non-generic.
Like, loading up defense supplies to send out to a variety of perimeter wall stations.