#signal is being fed to station is just

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novel basalt
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the depot right? where the train is waiting at

young agate
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correct

novel basalt
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The only time I had issues with the constant combinator and trains not going is when I was missing a wire or if a station was named correctly tbh

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but I am running a very similar design

young agate
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maybe i am missing something fundamental, do the stations need to be connected by wires?

novel basalt
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this is my constant combinators going to the train stations. Note two different wire colors (one for liquid and one for items)

young agate
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i tried connecting them with radars and it didnt seem to make much difference

novel basalt
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another reason is the provider station is disabled (is why train isn't going). But from your picture the stations seemed enabled

young agate
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yeah i started with some more complex stuff happening and have troubleshooted down to what i think is a very simple setup here

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im really not sure why the signal parameter is not working with the station name

novel basalt
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instead of not at provider, do is not full? I doubt it matters but that is the only difference really (I also used to do not at station until I realized I don't need to)

young agate
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is not full doesnt even trigger the interrupt

novel basalt
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is send to train enabled in the depot station?

young agate
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yes

novel basalt
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all I can think is your train isn't at the station

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maybe try adding the station as apart of its schedule? (I don't see it as apart of the schedule or as an interrupt)

young agate
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if i just set the station to copper provider and hit go it does

novel basalt
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No not to the copper provider

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set it to the depot as apart of its schedule

young agate
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oh that did it actually

novel basalt
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like this

like_this.png
young agate
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it must have barely not been at the station... not even sure how that happened, i didnt manual it at all

novel basalt
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Yeah I think maybe the train wasn't being considered at the station so it wasn't receiving the signal

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You can either use an interrupt to go to the station or just set that group to it. I have not tried the interrupt much yet not sure if I will

young agate
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well thanks for the help here, i may have more questions as i continue to troubleshoot this

novel basalt
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yeah the pictures I sent above is literally my entire schedule and it works. But there are issues l ike 2 passive -> 1 requester 2 trains go at the same time. And 1 passive -> 2 requesters it doesn't balance evenly like LTN. You would need more advanced circuits/conditions to fix that

young agate
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the red and blue chest symbols are just the names of your stations?

novel basalt
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yeah

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@empty owl btw what is your design? The above images I sent is my design for a pull based system

young agate
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the only problem i see with your system is it seems like if your provider stations fill up all the way they will not get picked up from anymore

empty owl
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i'm trying to design where there's trains that can handle iron/copper/stone all with the same schedule, and no matter how many receiving/loading stations there might be, they won't ever get into a situation where there isn't a train available to handle a request.

novel basalt
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Sometimes, although this really sucks, the train gets stuck at a provider because the requester station gets disabled while its filling up. Not sure how this is happening though but it is rare

novel basalt
young agate
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nvm, the chest symbol was throwing me off

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i was thinking it was referencing the chests being not full, not the station

novel basalt
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ah okay XD
The only reason I switched to this is I kept getting confused with unload/load or pickup/dropoff

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provider/requester ended up being much better. And luckily there is an emoji for it

young agate
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thats fair, i suspect it just takes some getting used to

novel basalt
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I think I might make an interrupt that sends full trains to the depot... and hopefully those trains get used first. Just seperate out my interrupts instead of one big one

young agate
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does your system ever get messed up with multiple trains picking up materials and then the requester getting full before it gets delivered

novel basalt
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Yeah that is what is happening now

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I think splitting up into multiple interrupts might be better especially since a train doesn't reserve multiple stations at once for some reason

young agate
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yeah, most people seem to be falling back on having full trains sitting in providers

novel basalt
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I won't do that, but I might send the full trains back to the depot

young agate
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i think that might cause you to run out of trains or depots

novel basalt
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But idk how you make it that the full trains get used first

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Well worst case scenario, the requester station gets freed up right? And the full train goes to that and a new train goes to the provider

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Best case scenario a new train isn't sent to a provider as there is already a full train ready for the requester

young agate
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how does it free up requester stations?

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will free up providers

novel basalt
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requester stations naturally need more items eventually so they should free up automatically

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the only case my system ever has a train stuck at a provider is if the requester gets disabled mid-way the train is filling up. So in that case it might be better to have it sit in the depot

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and so long as we only send trains to providers if the provider AND the requester is empty (from trains), then we shouldn't hopefully not get into a death spiral

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where all the trains become copper

young agate
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you will need a new interrupt to redirect it to a requester when it comes available

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i am trying to put that together now

novel basalt
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I am trying to do the opposite XD

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I am separating it out to three interrupts. To provider, to requester, and to depot

young agate
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yeah

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that is ultimately my goal

novel basalt
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but what I had should before works mostly

young agate
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the item parameter for a train checks its own cargo doesnt it

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?

novel basalt
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yup

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so if you have an interrupt checking for the item parameter, it can only be in the case that the train has cargo. So its only for sending to dropoff/requester

young agate
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yeah

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i think i have things working at a basic level now, which is relieving

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full cargo and empty cargo are still a little temperamental

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i feel like having full trains sitting in depots will eventually cause your trains to fill up with an unbalanced amount of materials though

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like having all your trains full of uranium when you need copper and iron ore

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which is why everyone keeps defaulting to sitting in providers with full trains i think

novel basalt
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I get you, that has been my concern and I have ran into those issues a ton. I think so long as I try to prevent trains from going to providers unncessarily it should be fine

young agate
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true

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you could maybe read train content in your network and limit trains at providers using that

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but im relative novice at signals atm

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just getting into logic systems

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been using too much LTN lol

novel basalt
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yeah same, after this playthrough I am just going to use LTN

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too much hassle to use vanilla

young agate
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im hoping for some elegant solutions to show up

novel basalt
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so like, destination full or no path apparently doesn't count trains with nothing to do

young agate
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it does not, no

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that would be for the situation where the requester is full though

novel basalt
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yeah, so the only reason for the interrupt to depot is for that situation as you said. I still need to assign trains to the depot

young agate
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my 3 atm are train empty, go to depot

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train empty at depot, go to provider

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train full at provider + requester in need, go to requester

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if you want your full trains to not sit at providers, you can say if it is full at a provider, go to a depot

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using specified location and item parameter

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obviously none of this works for multi item trains and stations

novel basalt
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My goal is to set up manual sushi trains that use the providers

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So having the providers be empty is important if I want to do that

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but I also want to avoid all my trains being turned into copper/coal/iron

young agate
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like i said my thought on that would be if you can export train contents from your depots to your logistics network and then use that to set max train limit at your providers

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basically if you have 3 or 4 full trains of iron, shut off your iron providers

novel basalt
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yeah that could work but it would murder my attempt at sushi train since the provider station would be disabled

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huh, "is not full" only for detecting if a train is already there?

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rather than station enable/disabled

young agate
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i dont think it will work if the station is disabled, but yes

novel basalt
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for some reason, even if I add the condition the trains shouldn't go unless the requester station is not full, the trains still think they can go to providing stations

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I think you need to both disable the station and set the train limit to 0?

young agate
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yeah your condition isnt checking that the train limit is 0, just that it is not full

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although im not sure if train limit 0 qualifies as "full" or not

novel basalt
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I am hoping it does

young agate
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seems to be the case in my test

novel basalt
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lol so we should both disable stations and set the limit to 0

young agate
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i suspect your issue is one of timing

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but couldnt say for sure

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they may leave for the provider just before a train arrives at the requester, etc

novel basalt
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I was messing around too with the order of interrupts to see if it would change anything

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or adding an interrupt that applies mid travel to a full train going back to the depot

young agate
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you can make interrupts interrupt each other

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though it sounds like a bit of a mess

novel basalt
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another possibility, which I really don't like, is you can't use a constant combinator for this and instead you need to switch one by one

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as maybe, the request circuit wildcard is different item from the provider in the interrupt. Due to it being provided an entire list of potential items

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So rather than each item being evaluated one by one for the entire interrupt, it evaluates it per station to make the condition pass

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Now what if I told you, that is exactly the issue?

south pendant
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Was fluid wagon liquid amount changed in 2.0?

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I remember it was 25K, but it seems it is 50k

novel basalt
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yeah its doubled

south pendant
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I dont recall seeing that in FFF

novel basalt
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you should probably also double your storage at stations

south pendant
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2 tanks per section

image.png
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Each tank is 25K

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So we have a buffer of 50K per section

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Oooh, but it will never be above 200K

image.png
novel basalt
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that is fine, unless you are disabling your station and require your train to leave empty

south pendant
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Technically I am not "doing anything" yet. Planning phase of my train network

novel basalt
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@young agate Combing the circuit I made to select one item at a time in a clock and setting the train limit to 0 has made my new interrupt schedule work.

So now trains will not get stuck at provider stations they will wait in the depot. And they will be selected first.

the_grand_solution.png
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I am not sure if train limit 0 is actually needed either tho, but for sure constant combinator is not working when you are checking it for 2 stations

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To test I made my trains instead wait at provider stations for 5 seconds rather than load full. The trains stuck in the depot finally got drained once I added the clock system

south pendant
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I now understand what you meant..

  • Train A reached provider station // Station had 200K (8x25K) buffer
  • Train A filled up
  • Provider station is now empty
  • Train A made it's deposit
  • Provider station is still empty, so train A cannot fill up yet
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I could:
a) Disable provider station and make train go to depot
b) Let provider station enabled even if it doesnt have enough resources

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Doubling the buffer can smooth that behavior

novel basalt
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Just for others, this is the circuit to swap between each item one by one

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
You still update a constant combinator but you need to make sure you add 1 to the count every time (so 1 = iron, 2 = stone)

south pendant
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In that specific case I dont see harm keeping it enabled, as I will not scale my sulfuric acid production

south pendant
novel basalt
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are you using a pull based system where you use a constant combinator at the depot to assign the train what stations it can go to?

south pendant
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Yesn't

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Currently doing that in half of the trains

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(WIP)

novel basalt
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Basically, "swap" means it cycles through each item one by one to make sure that only one item is selected per tick

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because if you send an entire list and you have 2 conditions checking for the same signal, the evaulated station could be different (the provider not full would be different from requester not full)

south pendant
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So I have a depot, and a global signal that there are 3 stations lacking copper, 1 lacking iron ore and 1 lacking plastic

image.png
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This is what you mean by "pull based system", correct?

novel basalt
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yeah basically, yours is just a bit more automatic

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I manually update a constant combinator

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the only issue with what you have is if you are checking multiple stations with the same circuit wildcard

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or looking at how I am doing this, what I am saying is this will pass because it will say "Ah, an iron ore provider is not full and a copper ore requester is not full, good to go!"

At least that is what it seems to be doing for some god awful reason. Just the condition

this_is_all.png
young agate
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@novel basalt there was a reddit thread about this cycler just the other day

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i havent looked at your blueprint yet, but someone put together a BP book for it, i can see if i can find it quick

novel basalt
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All it is is clock + check if clock = item count

And an extra circuit to calculate how many unique items there are to set the upper bound of the clock

south pendant
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For a certain tick, the condition will be true for all trains

novel basalt
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yes but train limits stop all trains from going crazy

south pendant
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Indeed, but they will be assigned to go to a station in it's limit

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Hence reaching sleep mode

image.png
novel basalt
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So yes, that can happen in the case of 2 providers and 1 requester right?

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2 trains will be sent to fullfill the request of 1, but after 1 of them is sent to sleep mode I send them to the depo

south pendant
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I plan to have more requesters than providers

novel basalt
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and when the request is empty it will pull from the depo first

south pendant
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Let's say 3 iron plate providers, and >10 iron plate requesters

novel basalt
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Yeah, that is hard with my system it doesn't work well with that

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I would have to wait until the requesters to fill up for it to saturate the other 7

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okay so like, 100% its just the constant combinator screwing things up

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I think train limit 0 stops 2 trains being sent in the 2 providers 1 requesters scenario

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which is only happening to me because I have 1 disabled requester. But its not considered "full" unless the train limit is 0

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maybe?

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nah its still sending 2 trains to the providers stations for some reason

young agate
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a couple of useful discussions:

south pendant
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Train limit 0 stops trains being sent.
But I believe it does not stops trains to being set to send

young agate
south pendant
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The destination could be set by the trigger, but it will not go yet. Reaching sleep state

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Thanks for the reddit references

south pendant
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Doesnt make sense to make trains go to the mine station when there isnt ores available

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Oh, not full stock. Not full of trains

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My bad, misunderstood it

young agate
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lol yeah ive made that mistake a couple times today

south pendant
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yeah, that condition might fix my problems

novel basalt
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The really hard part is support 1 long trains, 4 long trains, and fluid trains for a pull based system when you use a global circuit network

young agate
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you should be able to handle it in the interrupts logic

novel basalt
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How would you handle it in the interrupt logic? even the reddit post doesn't really say anything on that

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Like how would a train know that when it receives the oil signal that its a fluid train and should go pick up oil?

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or that the train is 1 long and we use 1 long for red science packs

young agate
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fluids and solids need to be on a separate setup

novel basalt
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I was able to make a filter just for fluids via manually defining what a fluid is

young agate
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as for 1 long vs 4 long, you could have seperate depots for both and circuit different things to them

novel basalt
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and then I used green wire for fluids and hooked those up to the stations. red wire for items

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I mean I guess you can set up another filter just for 1 vs 4 long

young agate
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as long as they are consistent throughout your base, yeah

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if you have a 1 train and 4 train solid fuel setup, things will get wonky again maybe

novel basalt
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yeah idk how you would do coal being both 4 long and 1 long lol

young agate
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requires more granularity for multiple train lengths for sure

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the second reddit thread has an interesting idea about broadcasting a train count calculation using radars to prevent over delivering to requesters

novel basalt
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at the very least I figured out how to make the trains wait in the depo rather than wait in the provider stations if an overdelivery does happen (and depo is pulled from first)... tbh idk how worth it is to make a global network just to prevent overdelivery

young agate
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just a tool in the toolkit at this point, im still just designing blueprints in creative mode preparing for my coop game

novel basalt
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lol that is basically all I am doing. I have the coop save open and I am just fixing all the problems before I play with my friend

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my unloading cargo design though, has much to be desired. But its what I get for using blue inserters

unloading.png
young agate
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just throw some splitters at it until it looks professional