Ralle

[slow kernel]

To start with the old programming addage, what have you tried, what did you expect, and what happened?

[lethal spire]

At first when doing this i tried out with only 2 trains and that worked, but now im at the stage where i gotta have 4 trains and thats causing some major issues. Starting to think that my design of the rails are causing more issues.

Im gonna draw a bit on paint for ya and show you what the railsystem looks like

and mark where i have chain signals and normal signals

[pliant walrus]

Maybe just a screenshot of the rails vs a doodle?

[slow kernel]

Screenshot?

[pliant walrus]

Yes. Screenshot

[paper bough]

Like, you already made it in game. Right?

[lethal spire]

Ok , so i want 4 trains. One train is going from Iron Pickup ----> Iron Dropoff . One train from Copper Pickup2 ------> Copper Dropoff. One train from Iron Plate Pickup -----> Iron Plate Dropoff. And yes the iron is very far up and not optimized but i had another plan from the beginning and thats why it stayed there for now. Problem i have atm is letting iron dropoff know when there's a train coming from Copper Pickup2

[pliant walrus]

May we recommend you 2 rail 1 way setup. Vs 2 way 1 rail

Allows easier learning of signaling. Better throughput. And just less headaches at the cost of more rails. But small cost

[paper bough]

Any well-made rail network should be able to handle nearly any number of trains (up to a point of literally filling the tracks). So knowing how many trains you want to use is kind of pointless info when it comes to signaling tracks

[lethal spire]

Yeah ive been thinking about it but tought it would cause more headpain for me

[pliant walrus]

2 rail is so much easier vs 2 way

[paper bough]

Reading that back it sounds rude. Sorry if it sounded that way to you. Discord for some reason only showed me "Ok , so i want 4 trains" and I was reacting to specifically that

[slow kernel]

@agile ingot 😂

Yeah, it's counter intuitive, but 2 way rails is the harder version of signaling compared to two one way rails.

[lethal spire]

Absolutely not! Im just glad that im getting help here. Guess i just have to rebuild some and put two rails instead. See how the signaling goes after that lol

[slow kernel]

I don't think you need to rebuild at all! It looks like you've got enough space everywhere that you can just run a second rail alongside your existing one.

[paper bough]

And then someday you will understand signaling well enough to make monstrosities like Spirit has today, or even this cute little set of stations in a single chunk!

Of course, there are two mod-specific things going on in that pic lol

[slow kernel]

In spirit's defense, they seem to have turned out fairly well.

[lethal spire]

Gonna move the iron ore station down to the left instead. Seems easier rather than going for the one at top.

[lethal spire]

What even is that 😅

[paper bough]

Well, since Light Armor is needed for a modded science pack, I am automating Light Armor. In a single chunk because it's Ribbon Maze with 32x32 paths through the map. And using Mini Trains in order to have space to unload fluids within that single chunk as well

[lethal spire]

Where does the train get the iron plates from ?

[slow kernel]

It looks like the vertical rails continue off his map, so they probably came in SW/NE and took the circle around.

[paper bough]

Yep

[lethal spire]

What is even going on there 😅

[paper bough]

Single-chunk city blocks lol

[agile ingot]

sorry for messaging you here, we can take the discussion elsewhere, but I was wondering, does this mod have biters?

already what I see above (and from what you said/showed last time) it's interesting to me

but I feel I would really love it if it had varying biter strength nests guarding various resources

it would almost become like heroes of might and magic or something 😄

[lethal spire]

New layout. Seems to work so far.

Im just wondering if im doing it right here, after the train pass from top, i want the train coming from right to start going right away so i had to place another rail signal straight after the other one in order to get it working

is that correct?

lol even the circuit network i put up works. So the train doesnt go unless its needed.

[agile ingot]

I'm no expert but that looks like deadlock risk

is what you want is for the train coming from the right to come up to this point and wait until it can go down?

[lethal spire]

Yeah as soon as the train from top passes.

[agile ingot]

why do you need the top train to pass for that?

a train coming from the right can move up to that point regardless of trains coming or not coming from the top

if you use a rail signal instead of a chain signal at that point

but you may have a reason why you don't want that

I'm not sure?

like I said I am no expert

so I apologize if I misunderstand or give faulty advice

[lethal spire]

Okay, But i just want it to stop if a train comes and it does, but as soon as the train passes it should be able to continue from right, but it stays there until the "top" train reaches next block further down. And its a waste of time for it just standing there.

[agile ingot]

yea right now even with chain signal it will come all the way as long nothing is here:

oh I get it now

wait no idk if I get it

ok look

let's delete this rail signal you added for a moment

[lethal spire]

If i dont have that small block section, the chainsignal from right is gonna take input from the yellow block, and if the train from top passes it will still stsand still from right until its out of the yellow block

[agile ingot]

right now in this picture, the trains from the right won't come if there is someone down here:

[lethal spire]

Yeah exactly. Or , the train from the right will come but stop before the chain signal until the top train leaves the yellow block

[agile ingot]

now if you replace the chain with a rail this will happen

(sorry I deleted the first pic cos I accidentally cut something)

[lethal spire]

Yeah now it works. Hm. I just went by the logic i hear everywhere (or if i missunderstood) that always a chain before a crossing and a rail after.

[agile ingot]

yes that's the thing

doing what I posted above should only be done if you know what you are doing

because it can lead to deadlock depending on what the railway to the right of the pic looks like

so what does it look like?

unless it's all 1-way

then I think it's fine

but I'm not sure cos I'm no expert

[lethal spire]

Atm its just one train going there but im about to build more so i needed that to work

[agile ingot]

we are looking here in the earlier pics yea?

[lethal spire]

Yeah exactly.

[agile ingot]

and what signals are here?

[lethal spire]

From right , rail - rail- chain

applied the same logic there as the first one to the left lol

[agile ingot]

oh you have another one of those double rail thingies?

gotcha

yea I believe that is likely inadvisable as a general rule of thumb

if the 1 rail signal is blocking in a way you don't want

the solution is not to add another rail signal directly in front of it

but rather to add more signals in the system or change signals depending on what you want

[lethal spire]

Aah i see.

[agile ingot]

if you want the train to go up to a point even if things after that point are blocked, you use a rail signal

BUT this can lead to deadlocks depending on your system

[lethal spire]

Because chain looks one more block ahead right?

[agile ingot]

chain looks infinity blocks ahead

up until it hits a rail signal

[lethal spire]

oh

aah

[agile ingot]

so rail signals are the "come up to this point no matter what's going on after this point"

and chain signals are "only start coming if everything after this point is clear (up to the next rail signal)"

[lethal spire]

Could you maybe explain another issue i have? or maybe 2 rails is the best idk

[agile ingot]

at least that's how I understand them, but again I must stress I am no expert so take all I say with a grain of salt 😄

[agile ingot]

sure thing

btw

one thing

this chat was created for your earlier discussion

if you have new questions ask in the #train-help so ppl can see and respond

since I am no expert

they are more likely to give you better responses

but I can respond to the best of my ability

[lethal spire]

Think it might be easier than i first tought. But idk

i need another train going to Copper Pickup 2 and down to Copper Dropoff but seems pretty easy now when i think of it

[agile ingot]

I believe the rule of thumb is that you should aim for a railway design that allows you to add as many trains as you need

without needing to redesign anything

except maybe needing to add extra stations so more trains can be there at the same time

[lethal spire]

Yeah my railway design is not that optimal haha. First time doing this and im about to get greyhaired from it

[agile ingot]

haha dw, you learn

so what is the problem atm?

what makes it difficult to add the extra train?

[lethal spire]

As i said i think it will be easier than i first tought. I think ... Haha

[agile ingot]

lol ok

in that case, godspeed!

[lethal spire]

Appreciate the help mate 🙂 really.

[lethal spire]

Hm for some reason my new train has no path

[agile ingot]

show me

but let's continue in #train-help

so others can potentially chip in with more insight than I

[lethal spire]

i forgot to put signal on the other side of the track so the train understands it goes two ways ...

[slow kernel]

So this was halfway about correct.
Remember this general rule of thumb for intersections: chain in, signal out.
Place chain signals before each rail line intersects with another, and place a signal after they merge. From there, continue placing signals a little more than the maximum length of your longest train.

[lethal spire]

The way i did it was placing a rail signal instead of chainsignal and it works. Why is chainsignal better?

[pliant walrus]

chain signal wont let it enter the next block unless it can exit. prevents deadlocking

[agile ingot]

oh oops I just realized my screenshots were wrong

yea the chain I switched to rail should remain chain

but you need a rail at the start of where the single rail is coming from the right

for what I showed in the screenshots to happen