Speculations

[tropic basin]

the reddit comments are weird to parse. I read them 3 times total and got to different conclusions every time

What I understood last time I read them, there's infinite researches, one of which doesn't need space science
and there's productivity researches, none of which require space science

https://old.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/16ja44x/friday_facts_376_research_and_technology/

Also I like that we have one infinite research that doesn't even need space science, so you have more choises of what you want to do at each stage of the game.
and
Exactly, doesn't need space science ever.
All of the productivity researches are like that.

those two statements do not really make sense without the distinction between infinite and productivity

[stray wharf]

Those last two sentences make more sense if you assume that each sentence is addressing a separate question from the comment being replied to:

Doesn't [steel prod] need space science period or is there a point that it will require space science?

Exactly, doesn't need space science ever.

Is it same with productivity for RCU? Is it 5 Nauvis packs indefinitely?

All of the productivity researches are like that.

[crystal dune]

Maybe I’m weird for feeling this way, but… Does anyone else feel like there may be too few new techs? As in, full techs that require science packs. And I don’t mean too few unlocks, I mean the fact that single techs often unlock very many things at once. Quite different from how 1.1 does it, if you think about it. For example, I barely see any techs that unlock individual recipes for the foundry and EMP. Most if not all of their recipes are just unlocked by trigger techs. Does anyone else find this odd?

[open abyss]

If you only look at the tech from localization doc and assume it's a complete list, yes

[crystal dune]

I’m assuming it’s a mostly complete list

A few things are surely missing

[open abyss]

I'm assuming it's missing quite a lot

[stray wharf]

I thought that's how it was supposed to be. Most planetary intermediates are trigger techs. You need research to figure out what to do with those trigger tech intermediates..

[crystal dune]

I don’t mean those intermediates

I mean, you need those to make science packs to begin with

I mean things like ore melting, or crafting various things with extra prod in the EMP

[open abyss]

But what do you unlock with those science packs

That list seems to have almost none of science researched tech

[crystal dune]

Well, that’s in good part because old techs that were moved are not on that list

So artillery, T3 modules, spidertrons, etc. etc. are all missing

Making the list seem quite a lot smaller than it really is

[open abyss]

I sure hope 1.1 tech is not the only stuff unlocked with new science

[crystal dune]

Well, duh it’s not

We know about plenty of new fancy things

And the science packs associated with most of them

[open abyss]

Not that much compared to what was moved to the new planets

I expect there's more that we don't know

[crystal dune]

There may be a bit

But I wouldn’t expect anything major

[weary widget]

theres still that shovel arm mech suit thing we don't know anything about

[crystal dune]

Right, that elusive “mech armor” which makes you “become one with the machine”

[viscid ferry]

I wonder if that can be controlled remotely like the spidertron

[crystal dune]

It was implied to have an equipment grid at least comparable to power armor 2

By one of the achievments

It’s also always referred to as an armor, while the spidertron is always grouped with vehicles

[tropic basin]

The 2.0 part also gets trigger techs, so the number of researches before the first rocket also goes down.

[crystal dune]

But not that singificantly

[stray wharf]

If Mech Suits have a grid of similar size to power armor 2, I doubt that they will be researched much beforehand. Unless there is some particular limitation with them.

[crystal dune]

To me it sounds like they added some other benefit to it that isn’t grid size because quality already covers that

What that benefit could be? No idea

[open abyss]

Walking over pipes clearly

[weary widget]

jetpack?

[crystal dune]

Who knows

[stray wharf]

By that point, Spidertrons and Remote view make your personal location more or less irrelevant.

[crystal dune]

Well, we don’t know what’s before what

[open abyss]

Could be still somewhat useful for aquilo but I doubt they'd make jetpack just for one planet

[crystal dune]

The cryptic hint in the demolisher fff makes me think it’s a Fulgora unlock

Not on Vulcanus, not on Gleba because it already has spidertrons, and not on Aquilo either because it can be obtained before Vulcanus

[viscid ferry]

could still be useful for outposting if it can be remotely controlled and is unlocked earlier than the spidertron

[desert coral]

We still dont 100% know if fulgora doesnt have enemies last I heard too

[crystal dune]

I hope (cope) that it does

[weary widget]

at least for how I like to play I'd get a lot out of it. ignoring the ores and biters, this is how the terrain will be configured for my SA playthrough (except on maximum scale), a jetpack would make exploring new islands/continents easier

[crystal dune]

That seems very specific…

[weary widget]

put more generically, maps with a lot of water

[desert coral]

Maybe if we cope hard enough
Itll be like the orcs in 40k and it comes into existence

[crystal dune]

You could get a spidertron, and just pepper small dots of landfill to walk across

A spider only needs a single tile to stand, its legs have pretty good reach, and it can fit a few exoskeletons

Ok this gave me a really funny mod idea
Now that landfill is removable, what if there was a mod that let the engineer automatically place landfill under his feet and then immediately delete it as he steps to the next tile

[tropic basin]

call the mod "Jesus"

[stray wharf]

I'm sure the engine knows how to deal with player collision and landfill removal.

[tropic basin]

We know that, it has been mentioned in the minable landfill FFF. I don't think that was a technical question though.

[grand fox]

do we know if the player has to be on the first landing pad deployment, or if it can be done through remote view?

[tropic basin]

engineer has to set up the landing pad afaik

[stray wharf]

Dropping stuff from a platform doesn't place it. It just becomes an item on the ground or a capsule or something. For automated placement, you'd need construction bots. So you'd have to place it manually the first time.

Well, you don't have to place the landing pad specifically. But you do have to place infrastructure that can do the placement later.

[tropic basin]

Yeah, you said it better

short story: engineer has to go down the first time around

[tardy quarry]

imagine its only slightly bigger than current mk2 armor and they nerfed the mk2 armor grid size

[stray wharf]

There'd be no point to Mk2 armor then. You can easily get a quality version of mk1 armor that matches it.

[tardy quarry]

better armor not just have larger grids

they have better resistance

[stray wharf]

Resistances only matter if you're getting hit. By the time Spidertrons and Artillery are on the table, you're not in a position to be hit by stuff.

[tardy quarry]

then no point for armor at all

[grand fox]

Could have a special trait like you don't slow down when shooting, or walk over pipes for all the squeakthrough diehards ^^

[tardy quarry]

how dare u saying that the resistance of my ear is not important

[stray wharf]

You can do damage with PLDs from inside a Spider. You can also build stuff with lots of personal bots and run super fast.

[tardy quarry]

what’s the point of running super fast when everything can be managed remotely

[grand fox]

hm we still don't know what the demolisher dust clouds protect against do we

[tardy quarry]

exoskeleton maybe

[grand fox]

we know it applies a max speed cap to exo's, but I'm pretty sure the FFF said they also interact with something else we hadn't seen yet

[tardy quarry]

might be mech armor new feature

flying?

[grand fox]

jetpack would be my guess

could also be forced inaccuracy/misschance to artillery that goes through dust

[tardy quarry]

r u saying that the engineer inside spider acting as extra grid size is one of the main application

[grand fox]

but I agree adding Tier 3 armor with no special perk would seem odd given how beefy legend PAmk2 would be

[tardy quarry]

just have more spiders

if it can fly it would be especially useful on Aquilo to cross ocean

[stray wharf]

It's a thing you can do, and it doesn't require anything you can't have when you get Spiders.

My overall point is that having 3 tiers of power armor does not make sense with quality. You can't justify a third tier of power armor by just saying "better resistances"; there are too many good ways to work around not having those.

[tropic basin]

Can you justify a third tier Assembling Machine?

[grand fox]

more module slots ^

[stray wharf]

Also it's mid-game in SA. Not late game the way the Mech Armor probably is.

[red crow]

Factory Grid inside Mech Armor would be wild and would fit the term "become one with the machine"

[covert cipher]

i irregular grid with builtin unremovable component

[shrewd citrus]

I like the shrek suit

[grand fox]

Mech armor functions as jump clone and you can free swap between any active one?

You thought you struggled for one legendary armor, now make 4 more

[tardy quarry]

I don’t see why more grid is not needed even we already have quality mk2 armor. With how powerful a group of spidertrons can be, why there’s no need to get a even bigger grid if its just for the engineer

quality power armor mk2 do have a lot of grid. That is, however, not a reason to stop the devs to add a power armor with even more grids

At least I don’t see anything broken with this addition and if the mech armor can make u fly it would be a great addition

[stray wharf]

At some point, you run out of useful stuff to put into it. Being able to control 500 bots, with nearly instanteous recharge and moving so fast you can phase through matter while never running out of power is good enough.

[tardy quarry]

tool belt

something I saw in the translation site

tool belt equipment that probably expands your inventory

also shields

power and batteries for those shields

even more PLD because they are nerfed

u never have enough grid size that’s it

funny to see someone posting ‘we have too much grid’

[weary widget]

||I'm almost positive the mech suit will have more grid space than PA2. There's a new achievment for "filling every tile of legendary mech armor with legendary equipment", suggesting its an even greater achievment to fill that vs legendary PA2 because of its grid size. And besides... its a nice endgame reward to have a silly amount of grid space to use for mass construction/killing||

[tardy quarry]

also keep in mind that only comes after Aquilo

[crystal dune]

Actually, that very achievement suggests the opposite

To me this sounds like their grid sizes are comparable, if not equivalent

Wait is that the wrong achievement

Hold on

[weary widget]

2 different achievements I believe

[crystal dune]

Nvm

I mixed these two together in my head

[weary widget]

all good. I wonder if the mech armor "does" anything other than have more grid space. although even if thats all it does, its still a nice upgrade

[tardy quarry]

one guess is that u can fly

[crystal dune]

I’m fully expecting it to do something extra

[viscid ferry]

I don't think they added an entire mech armor for more grid space

[tardy quarry]

basically ignore all obstacles and ocean

[crystal dune]

I mean, if it was just more grid, it would be called power armor mk3

Another mk3 item already exists, that line was already crossed

[weary widget]

hopefully

[tardy quarry]

if u can fly it’s probably much easier to fly with the mech armor than riding a spidertron

because its probably faster

and spiders don’t cross water

[viscid ferry]

I'd guess so, it has to fill some space that the spidertron doesn't

[crystal dune]

The spider is a unit and a vehicle, this is an armor

[viscid ferry]

is that confirmed? a mech suit could easily be a vehicle

ah I see the achievements says "equiping" aswell

[viscid ferry]

yeah same, i wonder if it will change the SPM meta

[restive linden]

There was a line in the translation that was an error message saying something like “cannot interact with this when flying “

[weary widget]

good find

[stray wharf]

Is that a more recent version? The one I downloaded yesterday doesn't have anything about "flying".

[wild swallow]

yeah you have to look on the website not the white text black screen download thing

[stray wharf]

That's all Mech Armor does? It flies? Even if that's an early planet tech, how long will you use it before it just stops mattering? Remote view already takes a lot away, and Spidertrons do the rest.

[wild swallow]

how do you know that its talking about mech armor

[wild swallow]

I guess on aquilo where there are a lot of potholes of water it could be useful

[stray wharf]

Because it talks about whether you can take armor off or not, and the only new kind of armor I'm aware of is "Mech Armor". Also, flight would be horizontal progression from Power Armor Mk2 and therefore would justify its existence.

After railguns that start at 10k damage, do we really need orbital bombardment weaponry? Artillery might be considered "seismic" damage.

[grand fox]

could be unused and was previously a vulcanus turret reward

[desert coral]

Seismic relates to earth and crust

[silent meadow]

so, the pieces are finally here together.. about the ||mysterious back hoe suit, called "Mech suit"|| but what tis the purpose of such it..

[desert coral]

That and we havent heard of a vulcanus turret

[grand fox]

could be scrapped

[desert coral]

Whos to say it is scrapped?

[grand fox]

could also be like a... quasi storyline research for that last area

[desert coral]

They havent mentioned everything

Yeah

I doubt theyd put something scrapped into translation

[grand fox]

right, endgame is ||shattered planet|| which could make sense why you're researching seismic stuff

[silent meadow]

i find it interesting that the ||3 achievements for the shattered planet gos from 10km to 60km is it survivability to go there?||

[desert coral]

I could also see it relate to vulcanus
What with that demolisher and how it hits you with attacks from the ground

[grand fox]

but it could just be fluff research like the SpaceEx mod (not SE) where it has very expensive final techs you have to complete before you can get the victory screen

test firing the weapon and you have to collect data before they'll let you return home empty handed ^^

99% it's bs but this is the wild speculation channel

[hybrid briar]

The Weapon?

[desert coral]

I still feel like it has to relate to vulcanus though,

[silent meadow]

like the demolisher's weapon?

[agile river]

seismic sounds like the demolishers damage type

[desert coral]

Yeah

[open abyss]

If it is related to vulcanus it's probably demolisher's damage new type

But I don't know why it needs a new one, why not just give it explosive

[grand fox]

the entry was for an ammo item which is weird, I don't know about how enemies are coded under the hood but I assume they don't have projectile counts

[desert coral]

I mean,
We gotta remember that they arent telling us everything
We dont know what the research tree is like

They likely still kept some surprizes
Like a seismic weapon

[open abyss]

Or it's something scrapped

I heard the doc was updated, are tungsten pipes and other gleba plants still there?

[stray wharf]

Because you might have defenses against it. Also, if you're flying, seismic damage probably wouldn't hurt.

[desert coral]

If its scrapped, then what would be the point in giving us the translation mention?

[stray wharf]

Because pobody's nerfect.

[desert coral]

I doubt theyd just keep it in translation though

[open abyss]

But they did

All 12 gleba plants

[desert coral]

Thats fair

Didnt notice that

[open abyss]

Anything interesting?

Besides apparently flying armor

2.0 adds base game achievements?

[restive linden]

What was the changes to the doc

[crystal dune]

Because of this I think mech armor is on Fulgora

And not later

[tardy quarry]

I think mech armor on Fulgora is reasonable

it makes traveling on Aquilo between islands much easier

[timid wing]

how so?

[tardy quarry]

we think u can fly with it

[open abyss]

But do you really need flight on fulgora

I assume you'd mainly need it for vulcanus or aquilo, fulgora should be relatively easy to traverse

[tardy quarry]

I think u mainly need it on Aquilo

[timid wing]

oil oceans sound very easy to traverse yep

[tardy quarry]

so it doesn’t really matter gameplay wise where it is unlocked

as long as it’s before Aquilo

thematically Fulgora fits

I do wonder what’s the recipe tho

mk2 armor needs T2 modules in the recipe

if mech armor needs T3 modules it means it need techs from multiple planets

say it needs speed3 and eff3

speed3 is on Vulcanus and eff3 is on Gleba

[timid crescent]

Techs that need multiple planets is the stuff I'm super interested in right now

Looking forward to tomorrow

[tardy quarry]

perhaps it needs speed3,eff3 and supercapacitors so requires all three planet unlocks

[crystal dune]

The demolisher thing made it sound like it could be unlocked before you come to Vulcanus

[open abyss]

I still think eff3 is space science unlock

Using u235 for it would make sense as well

[crystal dune]

But we know it uses fusion cells

[open abyss]

Do we?

[tardy quarry]

things may have changed

[crystal dune]

Well, that could be said about anything that was revealed

[tardy quarry]

Gleba do need more toys so perhaps they gave it two modules

but I do like the eff from uranium theory

I just don’t believe it will be in the game anymore

I hope Im wrong tho

[crystal dune]

No, not uranium

Lithium

[tardy quarry]

wut

Aquilo?

[crystal dune]

Fusion cells, not fission cells

The blue ones

[tardy quarry]

eff3 can’t be from the final planet

[crystal dune]

Maybe they can

[open abyss]

I mean it can, but that's a bit late no?

[tardy quarry]

theres no way

yeah

[open abyss]

Especially if you already unlocked fusion

[timid crescent]

Unless they buffed/changed efficiency I guess

[open abyss]

I feel like if there was a change to efficiency we'd have fff about it

[timid crescent]

There's going to be a lot that we didn't get an FFF about

[shrewd citrus]

removing efficiency modules?!? are you crazy? you of all people pepperbox!!

[tardy quarry]

no not what I mean

I mean the fusion cell in eff theory

tbh I think lower tier modules deserve to have different recipes

different recipe between eff, speed, prod and quality modules

[crystal dune]

Meh

I see no need for it

[tardy quarry]

cheaper eff module makes it feels smoother

[crystal dune]

In fact, if it wasn’t for quality, I would even prefer the IR3 approach

[tardy quarry]

no need but nice to have

[timid crescent]

Quality would work fine with the IR3 approach

[crystal dune]

Oh, but the new T3 recipes wouldn’t

[tardy quarry]

tbh I hoped a improved version of IR3 approach where u don’t need to reprogram it in a recipe, u can just reprogram it in the module slots UI and its a blueprint thing

[timid crescent]

You could make it work, just include the unique ingredient as a part of the writing recipe, and return it on the formatting recipe

[tardy quarry]

don’t return them

[timid crescent]

I would say that's also valid

[tardy quarry]

I kinda hope u make eff modules as the ‘basic version’ and u add more ingredients to make it into other versions

eff modules are quite expensive interms of what they provide

[timid crescent]

The T1 ones aren't

[crystal dune]

They’re already “cheaper” in the sense that the lower tiers provide a good enough benefit most of the time

Like, the higher tiers are needed only when paired with other modules

And there’s very rarely an overlap between “can use speed/prod modules” and “wants to conserve power”

It’s usually one or the other

New buildings having more module slots will help T1s even more, all of them will be able to easily reach -80% with just T1s

[tardy quarry]

they are very expensive compared to other methods to get power

[timid crescent]

It's not just about getting power, it's about cutting pollution as well

[tardy quarry]

these unique advantage only become valid with extreme world settings

otherwise it really doesn’t matter that much

also talking about pollution on other planets

[open abyss]

Energy is more expensive on other planets though

[tardy quarry]

not really

[crystal dune]

Efficiency modules will feel much more at home in a world where you can land on a planet with power-hungry buildings immediately at your disposal, but no power production set up yet

[open abyss]

Maybe not significantly but still

[tardy quarry]

Id say it’s cheaper tbh

[crystal dune]

In 1.1, you can always produce an appropriate amount of power for your tech level, because your base evolves over time

[tardy quarry]

Vulcanus u have 4x solar and 500C steam from ground

[timid crescent]

The difference between being able to run 1 foundry and 5 foundries will make a difference on vulcanus before you're able to kill demolishers and blow up cliffs for more solar

[tardy quarry]

500C steam is no joke

[late sentinel]

steam though

[timid crescent]

T1 modules are cheap, might as well stick it in there if no other modules are going in them

[tardy quarry]

T1 modules are not cheap

[crystal dune]

They kind of are

[late sentinel]

t1 modules are very cheap for what they do

[crystal dune]

15 greens and 15 reds for -80% power consumption
80% of a foundry or EMP is a lot of power

[tardy quarry]

unless u play the game super casually I usually always find better use for my red chips

like for roboports and nuclear reactors

[viscid ferry]

I saw module calculations last week that showed T1 modules pretty much pay themselves off within minutes no matter where you put them

prod specifically it was i think

[crystal dune]

Yeah speed and eff don’t “pay themselves off”

[late sentinel]

I actually disagree here

t1 modules are really solid

[crystal dune]

Modules are what eats all your red chips by way of sheer quantity alone

Like, how many roboports do you need just for contruction coverage

Not super many

[late sentinel]

I priority split it to modules

so any excess red ciruit production makes some modules

[tardy quarry]

prod modules yes

eff modules questionable

it also depends on where u put them

miners for example is quite a big sink for eff modules

while refineries and chem plants are the place where u can save the most power by using eff

then its assembler mk2

[crystal dune]

Mk2 can’t even reach -80%

[tardy quarry]

still u save more power per module than in other places

[late sentinel]

true, eff modules questionable

speed and prod t1 are lowkey busted though

[tardy quarry]

speed 1 is close to okay but I think a small reduce in cost would be nice

[late sentinel]

you play with old beacons you wouldn't get it

[tardy quarry]

true

[crystal dune]

Oh, right, I almost forgot about the “full prod and speed actually saves you more power than eff” thing

That’s kind of an underlying problem

[late sentinel]

yeah, that doesn't apply at t1.

[tardy quarry]

: 5 2
: 5 3
: 5 4
: 5 5

[late sentinel]

this would be more of a pain in the ass than helpful imo

[tardy quarry]

: 2 2
: 3 3
: 4 4
: 5 5

[olive seal]

Alright, we've had a great time in this channel, but sadly it will end today

[misty falcon]

The channel should stay for 2.1 speculations and general FFF speculations

[timid crescent]

I think at that point it can just be folded into #friday-facts

[violet path]

thats crazy isnt it

just one more week

seems so unreal now that its almost here

or maybe im just too hyped for a video game

[warm anvil]

Damn, reading this .ini file is crazy lmao

[timid crescent]

You should check out the changes to base.ini as well

There's some pretty cool stuff

Powerful offensive vehicle capable of mounting various weapons.
Was changed to:
Powerful offensive vehicle capable of mounting various weapons and equipment.

[warm anvil]

Can I crtl f search here?

[silent meadow]

top right is discord's search system. you can filter channels too

[crystal dune]

I never thought I’d see the day

Mainly because I didn’t really want to see it

[timid crescent]

Tank getting a nice upgrade

Some other text implies that other vehicles will be remote drivable, not just trains/spidertrons

[crystal dune]

Could you show me that

I’m not finding anything

[timid crescent]

duck posted this earlier

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1215073493142474833/1295238884275261511/Screenshot_2024-10-13_at_10.16.14_PM.png?ex=670decb6&is=670c9b36&hm=230787ce539cb2fa69235214f40e9c02bf41bf04a710e404b63f58bb9f856199&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=487&height=185

[crystal dune]

Either the search really sucks or that was removed

I’ll try again

Ah, I found it in core

Not base

It appears to be car only

There is a message for “this vehicle cannot be driven remotely”

Which I presume will pop up if you try it on the tank

[timid crescent]

If it's a part of core it's likely a prototype definition thing, in which case it would apply to both the tank and the car

i.e. the tank is a car

[timid wing]

yep the tank is a CarPrototype

[tardy quarry]

tank as early spidertron?

[timid crescent]

yeye

We'll have to see what 'equipment' it can take

[violet path]

pog

remote controlling an army of tanks

imagine

[timid crescent]

And how much it can have as well

[viscid ferry]

Tank with roboport for early remote expansion?

It would feel balanced at least

[violet path]

do we know if qual spidertron has bigger grid?

[viscid ferry]

Yeah i believe it does, don't quote me on that though

[crystal dune]

It does

It was in 375

[viscid ferry]

Actually a tank with roboport feels like the last piece of the puzzle for full remote view before the spidertron

[crystal dune]

I don’t think there was any puzzle to speak of

[viscid ferry]

Remote building outposts without building roboport lines outside your base, specifically on Fulgora

[crystal dune]

Fulgora was the specific case

And that’s just incentive to go to Gleba

[viscid ferry]

👍

[tardy quarry]

the incentive is still there even if we got remote tank tho

I would imagine the tank will have very limited grid size

say 2x8

so no exoskeleton

and quality may have no effect on its grid size

and u can’t RTS control a group of tank, u can only manually drive one tank remotely

last prediction before everything spoils: tank has equipment grid size of 2x8 and the grid size do not scale with quality so u can never use exoskeleton or portable fission/fusion in it

[misty falcon]

8 minutes to speculation results

[tardy quarry]

see a tank in the b roll

it must act as an early spidertron

[viscid ferry]

Not really a reason to use it on Fulgora otherwise

[honest summit]

I think we all know already that the endgame is || make as many standard pistols as possible ||

[tardy quarry]

a major disadvantage of tank compared to spidertron is that u can easily crash your base when u try to move around

[misty falcon]

That's from our team's base. One of our dudes really likes tanks so he sent them all planets as a care package 😄

[timid crescent]

I would hazard a guess that the RTS remote doesn't work on tanks either

[tardy quarry]

and that’s even worse if tank can take exoskeletons

[viscid ferry]

2x8 was what i was thinking aswell, no exoskeleton, no fusion reactor. So still big incentive for the spidertron

[timid crescent]

That's just incentive for a instead

[misty falcon]

Imagine legs on a tank 😄

[tardy quarry]

the equipment grid may not scale with quality

[misty falcon]

That sounds hilarious tbh

[timid crescent]

That would be super giga omega lame

[tardy quarry]

just for tank

[honest summit]

tanks need love lol

1.0 tanks are kinda just like... forest-travel devices

[tardy quarry]

or only the horizontal dimension scales

[misty falcon]

It's time.

OK

Tank has room for legs

[weary widget]

it flies! mech suit flies!

[misty falcon]

Tank is remote driveable

Tank has no radar

[weary widget]

#space-age message

[tardy quarry]

OMG legs for tank 🤣

[viscid ferry]

And can use roboport too?

[misty falcon]

Definitely!

[viscid ferry]

Nice

[misty falcon]

Tanks are the "early game spidertron" now

[weary widget]

how big is the grid for mech armor?

[crystal dune]

What science is mech armor at?

[misty falcon]

Very

10x12 IIRC

Mech armor is.... pack!

[timid wing]

10x12 normal, 15x17 legendary

[hidden dune]

Argh, the wait is unbearable

[hidden dune]

That is so sicks!

So you don't need roboports all over your base to make remote view work!

[weary widget]

much appreciated

[covert cipher]

I can see detaild recipes and tech cost somewhere?

[misty falcon]

Check #space-age and ask 🙂

[misty falcon]

@tardy quarry Original bioflux was removed, and Jelly-Yum was renamed to bioflux. So unfortunately, it's only in the game in spirit 😦

[tardy quarry]

no.

what’s the new AG science recipe

[misty falcon]

Same, just uses the jelly-yum recipe

Original bioflux needed biter eggs

IIRC

[sand saddle]

yeah

and spoiled in 10 minutes

and you had to get it to aquilo

[crystal dune]

Bioflux+wriggler eggs

You got your wish

[tardy quarry]

biter eggs?

🤯

u mean pentapod eggs right?

[misty falcon]

No, biter eggs! Seen in the latest FFF

[tardy quarry]

waaaat

🤯

[misty falcon]

There's biter eggs and pentapod eggs

[tardy quarry]

u need AG science for biter eggs tho

[misty falcon]

Of course 🙂

[crystal dune]

I did, oops

[tardy quarry]

pentapod egg in sicence lets gooooooo

[misty falcon]

Ah in science yea pentapods

but for you need biter eggs

[tardy quarry]

okay

[misty falcon]

And what do you need for ? Guess

[open abyss]

Uranium?

Guess not

[misty falcon]

Something from

[open abyss]

I was excited for more uranium sinks

[tardy quarry]

jelly?

[open abyss]

Pentapod eggs

[tardy quarry]

bioflux?

[misty falcon]

IIRC, it actually is

[tardy quarry]

[misty falcon]

Like you speculated

[open abyss]

Can't you farm spoilage with fish on nauvis?

[misty falcon]

In general, @tardy quarry were almost always spot on

[tardy quarry]

I guess eff3 is actually that useless so they use

[misty falcon]

Had to be something cheapish 😄

[weary widget]

what about ?

[tardy quarry]

any examples

[tardy quarry]

tungsten carbide?

or tungsteel

more likely tungsten carbide

[misty falcon]

Yep

You were right about metal bacteria

[tardy quarry]

I kinda feel Gleba needed ores from fruits

Quite happy I was right about predicting there will be Gleba rework fff and then Aquilo fff

[grand fox]

the loss of "Yummy value" as a stat is tragic

[misty falcon]

It was there last time, for nutrients

[grand fox]

Oh, I thought it got renamed to a generic fuel value given the .ini mining

[misty falcon]

No yummy in the inis?

[grand fox]

at least not in the spage-age.ini the first night it was up

[misty falcon]

IMHO bioflux should also have yummy value, as it's digestable by biter nests

[misty falcon]

But sorahn showed you yummy here 😄

[grand fox]

yummy value has been a running joke in my household for a month now, i'd be sad if it wasn't ^^

[misty falcon]

It's there

Like Sorahn's image

But it's indeed not in the inis

[grand fox]

wonder if it's due to being part of entity stats

[misty falcon]

It's in core.cfg

It sucks to have a chronic migraine and not being able to play ever 😄

[late sentinel]

feels so illegal to see you guys posting stuff now

[misty falcon]

IKR?!

[crystal dune]

Wait a minute

About efficiency 3

Were we technically sort of right all along

When we said it’s a Nauvis module

Because fish can turn into spoilage

Meaning it can be made with 100% locally sourced ingredients

I’m kidding of course, I still think the main determining factor is technology

But it’s funny how it ended up that way

[tardy quarry]

the fish module!!!

[crystal dune]

Honestly the Nauvis farming chain so so very comical to me

After subjugating many alien worlds and commiting unspeakable monstrosities
Engineer guy retires to a peaceful life of farming trees and fish

[crimson bough]

What do we speculate on now

[misty falcon]

2.1

[tardy quarry]

idea: nuclear rocket fuel as an alternative recipe for rocket fuel

which give more use for u235

say light oil + u235 = rocket fuel

tbh I hope cryogenic science take u235. So u put your u 235 into science that unlocks fusion before fission power becomes useless

[crystal dune]

It doesn’t

Womp womp

Biolabs and synth spawners do take it though

[tardy quarry]

well its just a setup cost tho

I also hope u need bioflux instead of biter eggs to craft prod module 3 so its a bit easier

[crystal dune]

Nah, I think it’s perfect the way it is

[tardy quarry]

[grand fox]

This seems the place for it; since tanks are remote controllable and have grids, a "combat bot deployer" equipment for player/tanks/spidertrons would be super cool for 2.1

[crystal dune]

I’m seriously wondering when you would ever use remote tanks. Genuinely, what is their use case? What good is a base extending tool that can’t actually work outside your base? If any testers read this: What purpose did it serve in you guys’ playthroughs? Am I missing something?

[grand fox]

I'm off planet and being attacked and I need to personally assist. Either ammo ran out, power was low, or I didn't cover a spot

[misty falcon]

We had 8-10 players in the team so expanding was done by hand

But it can clear nests around the base I guess, even though it doesn't have radar

[crystal dune]

That’s actually fair. I really didn’t consider the possibility of defenses every being breached. After so much time in my megabase save, I kind of forgot it can happen

[grand fox]

I mean for an experienced player yeah it's a low chance

[misty falcon]

You will want to expand your ore patches at some point

and full bot coverage isn't always an option

[grand fox]

though more possible Iguess with biter eggs and such

you might get biters in super awkward places

[misty falcon]

You need something to build your train tracks and outposts

[crystal dune]

How are they on Fulgora though

Is it even possible to use them there?

You can’t radar creep over tar

[shrewd citrus]

a personal combat roboport was thoroughly discussed at the LAN and is popular with the devs, but there was no time for 2.0

[grand fox]

I do wonder how much you can cheese it through, you can place BP's through fog of war and in theory drive through blind

[crystal dune]

Can you?

I can understand sending spidertrons through it, they have their waypoints

Tank driving is manual

[grand fox]

spiders have radars so it's moot for them

[misty falcon]

radar is quite long range

especially with

[crystal dune]

I guess I may be overestimating the distance between islands

You can probably always take a roundabout route through a few close ones, leaving lightning rods+radars on solid ground

[grand fox]

now I def want to try blind driving a tank and then just spamming a radar+solar BP blindly once I know i've hit a ledge ^^

[tardy quarry]

I think radars have fair range which is way longer than large power pole ranges, and islands are not too faraway, just a bit further than larger power pole ranges

[hidden dune]

What was original buoflux?

[misty falcon]

jelly-yum + biter eggs, IIRC

so was 2 way round trip

[hidden dune]

Efficiency only needs spoilage?

And blue circuits?

[hidden dune]

Thanks!

How is Tungsten Carbide made?

[late sentinel]

and pentapod egg

[misty falcon]

Tungsten+carbon. Shocking I know

And calcite I think

[hidden dune]

No way

Where can you get ice and carbon, other than from asteroids?

[misty falcon]

Ice from ammoniacal ocean

[late sentinel]

carbon is made from soul burn

[misty falcon]

Carbon from spoilage or coal

[misty falcon]

That's cabron 😎

[late sentinel]

I still can't believe I just randomly told you about the event in dms and you were like 'what event?!'

[weary widget]

how do you control the tank, with the RTS tool or something else?

[hidden dune]

Remote control like trains

RTS only for spidertrons

[crystal dune]

I thought it was acid

[misty falcon]

Maybe

Coal and acid is carbon

[timid crescent]

Efficiency modules needing spoilage is so stupid I love it

[stray wharf]

It seems pretty clear that the developers are in on the joke of efficiency modules being kinda bad at this point.

[late sentinel]

what can you do about it

[tardy quarry]

just make eff modules cheaper in general

[misty falcon]

Combine eff with other stuff

Lets say 7 and 1

[hybrid briar]

give eff modules a tiny prod multiplier which adds across themselves but the sum multiplies with any productivity effects present

and the efff modules would still be able to broadcast from beacons

the highest yield for the most expensive stuff would then require you to use prod + eff not because of a penalty for speed but because the eff would be getting even more material out of the prod

you could think of it as the eff giving a discount on the input cost

similar to how the big mining drill decreases ore depletion, or the biolab only costing half the science input per cycle of output

[crystal dune]

Overkill

[hybrid briar]

but without having to do fractions of inputs, just augmenting the output prod

[shrewd citrus]

in SA, efficiency modules are not bad. there is a significantly longer amount of time where you are power-constrained much more than resource-constrained

space and fulgora are the two big places

and folks are severely underestimating how power-starved fulgora is

to the point where people were complaining that they "had to" carpet 70% of their island with accumulators just for the base to work

and efficiency modules are extremely valuable

power is "free" only on Nauvis and Vulcanus

because of 1. Nuclear power and 2. Sulfuric acid steam

it's gonna be a very long time until you get fusion and during that time, efficiency rules

[crystal dune]

Especially if you decide to be cheeky and use big miners/foundries on Fulgora

You will definitely need to -80% those

[honest summit]

What prevents you from using conventional power on ? Lack of water?

(e.g. steam turbines from burning the infinite heavy oil)

[misty falcon]

Boilers using from scrap is viable. The limit is water. But lightning and quality accumulators is good

[tardy quarry]

I do think eff modules becomes a lot better with SA introducing more power hungry machines and space/power constrained scenarios

[crystal dune]

With 1.1, you always have buildings with power consumption appropriate for your production

In spage, with new planets, not so much

You can bring incredibly power hungry stuff to a freshly starting planet

[shrewd citrus]

lack of water, lack of space for accumulators

[tardy quarry]

water is 10x more dense for steam now tho

[honest summit]

Yeah my question was "if you're running out of space, why not use a constant power source like nuclear or first gen steam"

[shrewd citrus]

you can mitigate this to an extent with a platform processing ice above, but that requires several techs

[shrewd citrus]

if you're consuming 200 MW your scrap isn't enough to sustain power generation

[tardy quarry]

I think a bigger issue is that early on u cannot connect power network across islands

[shrewd citrus]

actually, that's a misconception

[honest summit]

Having played an extensive 0 seconds of spage, my thought would be something like ice harvesting platform in orbit + occaisional nuclear fuel shuttle from nauvis -> power?

[shrewd citrus]

there are large archipelagos of big islands that are easy to connect

but they have 0 scrap

[tardy quarry]

Id say hybrid power might work

[shrewd citrus]

but the thing is, the more you build, the more power hungry you are, and the more of your space wants to be eaten up by accumulators

[tardy quarry]

how big do u have to build reasonably before u unlock Aquilo stuff

[crystal dune]

Ice harvesting would be pretty weak, and unnecessary

Gleba has normal water, Vulcanus already has nuclear-level power locally

[honest summit]

My guess is it massively depends on how rich you feel like being lol

[tardy quarry]

I saw some SA base from Youtube and they all seem to be bigger that what they need to be

[honest summit]

Apparently you can get a big chunk of the way through all 3 tier-2 planets without or

but you kinda have to slum it, I assume

[tardy quarry]

theres even an achievement for not unlocking before getting a planet tech researched

[crystal dune]

Missing out on damage upgrades and destroyer bots from yellow would make Gleba and Vulcanus pretty tough

And I don’t even have to explain why you really want elevated rails

[tardy quarry]

also did they make any of the recipe easier? like faster crafting speed or any

[crystal dune]

Nope

That’s what new buildings are for

Rev up those fish farms

[tardy quarry]

I saw in a Youtube video that produced from assembler mk3 (without modules) are suspiciously fast

[shrewd citrus]

was it a quality assembler?

[tardy quarry]

like 15s or something instead of 30s per rocket fuel

[tardy quarry]

no I don’t think so

[honest summit]

beacons?

[tardy quarry]

https://youtu.be/Kfu2IkMgGiM?si=8jhN7co7fIvrd3oB
18:46

[honest summit]

Can you see quality in alt view?

[tardy quarry]

yes

[honest summit]

(of buildings etc)

[tardy quarry]

this is before space platform unlocked

and the base doesn’t have quality at all

[honest summit]

huh

[tardy quarry]

its like outputting rocket fuels every 12s

normalize it by the assembler speed of 1.25 we get crafting time of 15s for rocket fuel

instead of 30s in 1.1

it aslo means they made solid fuel recipe work faster otherwise there’s not enough chem plants to support those rocket fuel assemblers?

[honest summit]

yeah that would make sense

btw I noticed that the FFF about space platforms seems super out of date now

[tardy quarry]

found it

decreased the crafting time of rocket ingredients

[honest summit]

Specifically:

• You can walk around on the space platforms now?
• There's no "space science in space" distinction from early space science?

[tardy quarry]

decreased crafting time of solid fuel

[tardy quarry]

I think now u unlock space platform starter pack together with the silo, and u unlock space machines with space science together by a trigger tech triggered by launching a space platform starter pack

[honest summit]

Yeah in the tech tree I found it looks much simpler now

[tardy quarry]

yeah

[honest summit]

get rockets, unlock platforms by launching one, unlock space science by harvesting an asteroid?

[tardy quarry]

u unlock space science by crafting an asteroid catcher?

or building an asteroid catcher?

or catching an asteroid as u suggested

[honest summit]

so yeah rip this progression

[tardy quarry]

😅

rip skipping space science in space by launching stupid amount of satellites

[honest summit]

I guess it's over a year old so, fair haha

I'm significantly more weirded out by being able to walk around on space platforms

[void basin]

when was the translation file updated

[honest summit]

or that biter eggs can hatch on space platforms??

[tardy quarry]

I think they can still hatch

[honest summit]

but I guess the drag eggs to the 💣 planet was a more interesting challenge than the realism of biters should probably die immediately in space

yeah you and biters can both walk around, the part where you just hang out in a hub is seemingly gone, based on some gameplay videos that released today

[tardy quarry]

imagine the biters spawn in the hub and immediately destroy your platform

[honest summit]

Plot of the next Alien(s) movie...

[hearty aurora]

Is there really a point for #1240418991386787920 any more?

[hidden dune]

We are no longer safely strapped to the hub

what did that ancient fff post imply the interrupt^2 were for?

[honest summit]

hard freeze or stuff spoiling I assume

May have originally been for fulgora lightning but I don't think trains take damage from that anymore

[hidden dune]

Isn't that weird, that the coldest planet has no solid resources, other than chunks of ice in ammonia ocean?

[crystal dune]

What?

[tardy quarry]

solids are all deep in the ocean, and the ocean used to be gases

[viscid ferry]

i guess for 2.1

i'll start: even further improvements to fluids

[hearty aurora]

"We reworked the rework of the rework of fluids and now they work the same as Satisfactory" 💀

[tardy quarry]

we removed legs for tank

[viscid ferry]

also Kovarex said something about adding a way to send signals between surfaces. If that's not added by monday it could be a 2.1 feature

[barren oasis]

Didn't they already rework the reworked fluids?

[misty falcon]

Well you can know the state of fluids by reading Raiguard's user note

[tardy quarry]

what is this?

[viscid ferry]

is that the heater?

[open abyss]

Recycler

[honest summit]

No that's the 3rd thing 3 rows down

[late sentinel]

I'm 99% sure you could figure it out

[tardy quarry]

technically recycler is a furnace

so 😅

[undone spade]

Isn't that fone trough radars?

[viscid ferry]

that only works on the surface itself, not between surfaces

[undone spade]

Oh

F

[crystal dune]

Nah, all planets sharing the same radar net would be terrible

There has to be a way to separate them

[covert cipher]

configure in radar

[undone spade]

One could have checkboxes in each radar saying "do share your network values with radars in planet X" and all radars of planet X that listen to the emitting planet receive the info

Would that work?

That radar could even change its direction to point somewhere else 👀

[tardy quarry]

Id say landing pad center act as interplanetary radar is okay

[misty falcon]

Oh something no one talked about... this is astro toilet

[tardy quarry]

[tardy quarry]

The last fff: Space Age is Ready

we will finally get a proper trailer

[late sentinel]

We haven't seen one yet

[restive linden]

How come the platform slows down when thrusters stop?

[grand fox]

lets say gun turrets just really have that much kick firing on the final few asteroids

[tawny snow]

honestly with all the crap flying around on space I would not be surprised if the answer was drag

[crimson bough]

recoil from all the turrets

[narrow vale]

Honestly, with all that space junk flying around how is the Engineer's space platform not turned into shrapnel the second it moves?

[honest summit]

Magic 🪄

[misty falcon]

[honest summit]

The same magic that lets an ostensibly human person build a nuclear reactor with their bare hands in 8 seconds.

[narrow vale]

I'm referring to space dust, micro particles. Which could be moving at the speed of light at times iirc.

[misty falcon]

Cosmic rays?

[narrow vale]

Well, then again the Engieer's spacecraft isn't made of basically thin foil (unlike ours, which are), so it just bounces those off I assume.

[misty falcon]

We don't fly that fast

[winged pivot]

*near speed of light, nothing with mass moves at the speed of light ☝️ 🤓

and it's not dust that does that, but particles

[narrow vale]

Ah, thank you.

Ye

[honest summit]

None of the space physics makes any sense because it's not supposed to. It's designed to be fun and an interesting logistics challenge.

[crimson bough]

I do all the time

[desert coral]

"When my craft gets hit, no one bats an eye
But when the james web telescope gets hit
Everyone loses their mind"

[restive linden]

Wouldn’t that like disintegrate the platform

[winged pivot]

That's covered here:
https://youtu.be/wdP_UDSsuro?si=L3xv8zL61HN5IbZ1&t=139

[crystal dune]

Oh, just remembered this

I guess it was kind of a fail

But I wasn’t expecting anything else anyway

Though, if you really stretch it…
You could say that all the resources on Aquilo come from “fountains”

And that level is called “Secret Fountain”

[restive linden]

I always see those yt videos “shooting a grain of sand at earth at the speed of light and it’s devastating

[tardy quarry]

My ear fff, finally

[tawny snow]

they kept you waiting right until the end lmao

[tardy quarry]

my ear is already spoiled by now

[misty falcon]

To be fair, I expected it to come in the very last FFF with the trailer 😄

[wild sluice]

I speculate that the new armor will be awesome

[tardy quarry]

u don’t need to speculate

[grand fox]

"We have one more thing that none of the testers have really seen in the works […] It might drop first patch after release.” resume speculation

[fallow flint]

Where did you get this from? I’m very interested

[weary widget]

https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/1g6xy3v/you_are_not_ready_spoilerfree/ its a quote from the playtester discord apparently

last bullet point in OP

[fallow flint]

Aye thank you!

[hidden dune]

If it's something as big as 1.0 spidertrons, that would be amazing

• I'm sure there will be some sort of easter egg at the end of route to Prometheus

[crystal dune]

I really hope so too

Like, anything

Literally anything

[hidden dune]

[viscid ferry]

I knew they would do a surprise feature, just like 1.0

[plain ermine]

What are you all going to speculate about after the release?

[hidden dune]

2.1

[plain ermine]

[hidden dune]

[viscid ferry]

Factorio: High Fashion

[radiant quiver]

Promised biter dating sim secret level

[tawny snow]

you already date the biters, you buy them dinner (bioflux) and then they... uhhh... I don't want to continue this analogy anymore

[crystal dune]

Biter dating sim will be an in-universe dating sim that the engineer just runs on the biolab’s neural hardware

[tawny snow]

basically the matrix but for biters at this point

[undone spade]

I have a (mini)problem
From yesterday, my browser can't find reddit website. I simply assumed reddit was down for everybody but now I'll look for a solution.

I use firefox and am located in switzerland.
NOTE: here is the list of all things I tested while writing the message
Edge also can't find it
My phone can't find it
My phone actually can find but only trough mobile data...
I need to talk to ask the owner of the wifi-box (I just got by my parents)

[weary widget]

It could very well be your internet connection. Reddit is pretty good with uptime.

Maybe some kind of parental lock is on your internet? Not too sure.

[undone spade]

well idk if reddit got blocked by wifi intentionnaly or not
But all the rest of internet work (that I know of)

(my messages got quite off-topic I know; originaly I wanted to ask you about the content of the reddit post but I'll read it on phone)

[weary widget]

If everything works but reddit there's some deeper issue going on I think. Perhaps continue this on #offtopic if you need more help.

[undone spade]

I'll just close the topic here:
My dad blocked wifi-acces to reddit something like eight years ago; and since I discovered reddit only after moving away from home I just discover this lol
Let's speculate about Factorio again

[undone spade]

Could it be that flying ennemy of https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-367 ?

They explicitely said it was not there; but what if?

[weary widget]

could be an enemy, could be a new weapon, could be new graphics for stuff. it could be anything

[undone spade]

Oh and it will not be present at release

[tawny snow]

rip jelly bros, gone but not forgotten, would have made for a rad biolab

[covert cipher]

rip jellyyum

[crystal dune]

I really believe cooking/baking Gleba items in furnaces was a hilarious concept and it’s a shame it’s gone

Now even burning spoilage into carbon is done in a biochamber instead of a furnace

Somehow

But tbf this one might have been for technical reasons

Because spoilage would have been both a fuel and a smeltable

[misty falcon]

Likely

[crystal dune]

It looked like it did work at some point, but I did only see it in like 10 seconds of footage

So maybe it was a lot more jank than that footage let on

[wanton igloo]

Maybe it is a 2.0 Switch build

[static root]

After all this time... Biter dating sim ?

Pentapod dating sim even ????

[open abyss]

I had a dream about what this feature could be and it made a lot of sense

Unfortunately I forgot

[hidden dune]

They also told that they had to abandon spidertrons in the development of 1.0

[sand saddle]

how do you think you are making the biter eggs?

[olive seal]

[tardy quarry]

[static root]

trying my best to not be overly vulgar here

[sturdy oriole]

I speculate..... Expansion tomorrow

[tawny snow]

no way

[desert coral]

We sure? Theres a chance it might be monday instead

[sturdy oriole]

I speculate.... Expansion today

[ripe gyro]

The expansion will release in 6725.8 inserter swings

[chilly cloak]

... it counts down

ah it stopped counting down

[hidden dune]

It does it for 30 seconds

[viscid ferry]

Have fun today everyone. It was fun speculating with you guys the last year 👌

[misty falcon]

We'll still speculate on 2.1 😄

[chilly cloak]

you can still speculate for 5 mins more

[hidden dune]

I speculate...You all are downloading the expansion

[tardy quarry]

I will never forget the days waiting for may ear reveal, no need to wait anymore…

and no need to wait to play Space Age anymore!

[late sentinel]

@tardy quarry do you have it installed

[tardy quarry]

no I’m not at home 😢

need to finish working today

so I still need to wait

[ripe gyro]

The expansion has already been released, go play it!

[desert coral]

I speculate space age will be accessible via my computer

[hearty aurora]

What will this weeks's FFF be about?

[timid crescent]

Release and sales/player numbers, probably

[fast night]

And that one new feature no one has discovered yet

[misty falcon]

Getting top selling and 7th played on Steam is nice

[tawny snow]

tripling your all time player peak is also kinda nice

[misty falcon]

Very

It's the top poster for the Steam store right now

Unfortunately a bit pixelated

[undone spade]

top-selling, according to what metric? I am quite confused with all sources I have found, they indicate an order but no corresponding number

I hope someone can explain me

[misty falcon]

Revenue

[weary widget]

They deserve every penny... it'll be interesting to see what they choose to invest that in next, since Factorio is evidently coming to a close sooner than later (for now at least)

[narrow vale]

Which is sad ngl.

But, who knows, maybe they'll make 3d factorio xD

[misty falcon]

They won't.

Wube said they want to make a whole new game in a different genre

some time in the future

[hidden dune]

I wonder if they will make it follow the same lore

Imagine a Factorio RTS

[tardy quarry]

a Factorio RPG

[narrow vale]

xD

Just yesterday there was talk about a Rust RTS in their discord.

What next, Satisfactory RTS?

[tardy quarry]

Factorio survivor

[quiet gyro]

I predict that this friday's FFF will be about how the launch went

[misty falcon]

Yeah like 3 versions already and a ton of long tail bugs

[thorn arrow]

What about a Factorio Visual Novel?

[misty basalt]

In Factorio 3.0, we will have 3 layer of train rails

[tardy quarry]

stack train wagon

[desert coral]

Every new whole number update
They add a layer of rails

[misty falcon]

Factorio Netflix Live Action adaptation

[static root]

Factorio 8.0 - 32 track directions, 8 track layers

[hybrid briar]

Factorio 360?

[hidden dune]

Galaxy of fame: https://www.factorio.com/galaxy

[leaden socket]

Wonder what that will be, maybe it will be mentioned in the future FFFs?

Maybe it's no longer Factorio Friday Facts

[misty falcon]

This week's FFF will definitely be about the release, some sales numbers, amount of bugs found and patched. Possible talking about some feedback e.g. requiring double click for choose stuff after quality....

[misty falcon]

Solutions are being discussed btw e.g. single click and you have to select quality first

[viscid ferry]

That seems like the best and simplest solution

[open abyss]

Logistic request already have quality selection at the bottom of the window, don't know why they didn't do the same for ghosts

[misty falcon]

For ghosts you can alt-shift-mousewheel

Or in general that works

[hidden dune]

They added Galaxy of Fame in 2.0.10 experimental, I'm sure that by Friday that version will be stable and they will mention it

[thorn arrow]

I hope it's not getting closed before I finish it /hj

[misty falcon]

I don't think it's planned to get closed...

[thorn arrow]

I was thinking of websites/links of some old games you had as on CD disk, that don't work anymore.
But true, it's just got out and I plan to finish Space Age before the end of time

[violet path]

what is that

[hidden dune]

Check 2.0.10 changelog on the forums

https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=116963

https://www.factorio.com/galaxy

[young breach]

I don't get it

[hidden dune]

It's the "Hall of Fame" for the players who completed the game

[thorn arrow]

You can look at their bases, platforms and other stats

[hidden dune]

Though bases are only in the map view

[weary widget]

kovarex has his save in it https://www.factorio.com/galaxy/Iron I: Alpha1-1.A1W3

[misty basalt]

new game can have name started with f

[misty basalt]

Fatisfactory

[misty falcon]

Do note it's old map gen, with biters on . But it is the 200kSPM base...

[weary widget]

cool thanks

[young breach]

oh ok, on a phone I couldn't click on the stars

[misty falcon]

So today the speculation for me is:
"We released! Thank you for the <some number> of sales! We solved a lot of bugs and working furiously on more. And here's a little treat: Galaxy of Fame."

[young breach]

some insight in some weird bugs that got fixed would be nice

[undone spade]

seems good
Maybe some plans for futures as well

[misty falcon]

Called it

[hidden dune]

Called it

[misty falcon]

True, but I called more things 😛

Obvious as they may

[hidden dune]

Well, sales amount was obvious

And I called GoF earlier

Any speculations for the next FFF?

I speculate that GoF will recieve some updates and they will be mentioned in FFF

[misty falcon]

Next FFF may be future plans and or technical stuff

[viscid ferry]

#friday-facts message
Fair chance that FFF's may have more time in between for now

[quiet gyro]

I was right, shocker

[wild sluice]

I'm not surprised

[lament basin]

I still find it very interesting how they completely removed the alternate of Space Science. Because back in 381 they mentioned how satellites could be launched to gain 10-30 per launch till you create them in space.

A few days ago I was wondering what happened to all that about them lol

But I’m not complaining

Does seem a bit like an unnecessary step

[tawny gulch]

It was very unnecessary. The new way is so much better.

I just watched my brothers build their first space platform and once they remembered to look at the tech tree, the trigger techs guided them through the process pretty nicely.

[tropic basin]

I haven't played it with Satellites and Uranium, but I do very much like the current implementation. Straight to Space Science and guides us to space factories.

[tawny gulch]

I still miss the uranium, but I've made my piece with that.

[open abyss]

Maybe one day we can have u238 in yellow science

[tardy quarry]

I hope we have a new robotics facility that makes engines, electric motors, bot frames, inserters, turrets etc. with 50% prod

[crystal dune]

Stone facility for making bricks, concretes, landfill, walls, rails, tungsten carbide...

[misty falcon]

I wanted stack size increase for my inserters, but didn't want to do oil yet. I went to the field with a pumpjack and a solar panel, just to unlock it

[tardy quarry]

yeah I did the same lol

just put down a pumpjack and don’t touch oil for a long time

[tropic basin]

Bring a tank to get a headstart for when you actually want to start Oil.

oh wait, that's locked behind Oil :/

[misty falcon]

Personally I think non-bulk inserter stack size research should not be locked behind bulk inserters

At least the 1->2 which is a huge boost

[tropic basin]

I think it should be that way. Hulk Inserter is the hand stack size inserter, other inserters only get increased hand stack size as side effect/free bonus.

[misty falcon]

For me the "other inserters" is the main bonus ^^;;

[timid crescent]

Early on the difference between a 2 hand size fast inserter and a 4-6 hand size bulk inserter just isn't super meaningful in most cases

especially for how expensive bulk inserters are relative to fast inserters

[tardy quarry]

tbh I hope bulk inserters are unlocked behind all the regular inserter hand size upgrades

tech progress will be : regular inserter hand size upgrade 1->2 and 2->3, then unlocks with hand size of 4
: upgrage hand size to 6, then upgrade to 10 then upgrade to 12

the player though process would be: ‘hey I want more inserter throughput’ -> ‘oh nice heres this upgrade tech that boosts all my inserters, and I can do 2 levels.’ -> ‘hum I want more’ -> ‘oh I need bulk inserter which gives me more hand size at the start and the following upgrades only apply to them’

[misty falcon]

Anything for today?

[tropic basin]

Landmine nerf

[tardy quarry]

lmao I’ll wait for it

tbh one way to nerf is to decrease their explosion effect radius

one of the main reason why my landmine ship works is because the landmines can be triggered 2-3 tiles away from the center so asteroids can trigger the landmines before they touch the space platform tile

[tardy quarry]

me too

[tropic basin]

we have cannon turrets

I can't even quote the "we have <thing> at home" meme
Cannon turrets are so OP, they straight up delete stuff instead of dealing damage

[tardy quarry]

can they delete asteroids

[tropic basin]

Yes. Damage is at least 10k, huge asteroids have 5k health and 3k resistance.
Except the Huge Promethium Asteroid. It has 10k health and 3k resistance. weird

ah, they all have twice as much health

a single railgun damage upgrade rectifies that

[hidden dune]

Cannon?

Do you mean railgun?

[tropic basin]

yes

that it uses electricity to propel the projectile is not important
big chunk of metal comes out the barrel, it's a cannon

[chilly cloak]

time to speculate a bit I guess

Vulcanus: 0.7071 FAU
Nauvis: 1 FAU
Gleba: 1.2247 FAU
Fulgora: 1.5811 FAU
Aquilo: 2.2361 FAU
SSE: 17.3205 FAU

if 1FAU = 1AU then vulcanus would be comparable to venus and fulgora would be comparable to Mars

[tawny gulch]

It's really easy to discover the exact numbers by looking at the prototype definitions 😛

Each space location is defined by a distance and orientation, not x/y coordinates.

[tropic basin]

that sounds like polar coordinates

[chilly cloak]

im aware that the inner planets are each 5 distance apart from each other and aquilo is 10 from fulgora but im calculating those of the solar power from space so its more realistic I guess

[tawny gulch]

That's because it is 😄

The orbital transfer lines are linear interpolations in polar coordinates

[chilly cloak]

ive used magnitude and gravity to calculate some more stuff relative to nauvis

Masses:
Vulcanus: 9 FM
Nauvis: 1 FM
Gleba: 2.42 FM
Fulgora: 0.648 FM
Aquilo: 1.5 FM
Volume:
Vulcanus: 3.375 FM^3
Nauvis: 1 FM^3
Gleba: 1.331 FM^3
Fulgora: 0.729 FM^3
Aquilo: 1 FM^3
Densities:
Vulcanus: 2.6667 FM/FM^3
Nauvis: 1 FM/FM^3
Gleba: 1.8182 FM/FM^3
Fulgora: 0.8889 FM/FM^3
Aquilo: 1.5 FM/FM^3

the star would have have the volume of 1000 Nauvis's

it would theoretically be possible to get nauvis's volume and hence mass through the stars colour if the star is correctly scaled

[tropic basin]

now I want to check the space map, but it's not there. weird

[chilly cloak]

yeah the stuff is in the game files

[tropic basin]

It sure is there. But if the transfer lines are actually linearily interpolated, then they should curve outwards a bit.
I wanted to check whether that's true and by how much the curve deflects from a straight connection.

[chilly cloak]

they can curve if you move the planets on the star map

they act a bit like a spiral if you do it far enough

[tardy quarry]

I tested the interrupt in interrupt, its only meaningful when u have an interrupt that has more than one stops

and when an interrup interrupts an interrupt the interrupt that’s being interrupted is cleared completely

I hope I wrote it clearly

basically, interrupt in interrupt still only works when the train decides to leave a station. It is not triggered in the middle of a route

[agile river]

same as all interrupts then

[hidden dune]

Say interrupt one more time

[hidden dune]

So it's not really an interrupt, it's just additional IfElse for choosing where to go after each station

[tardy quarry]

you didn’t interrupt my speculation on train interrupt interrupting interrupts

[tardy quarry]

basically if all your interrupt only has on destination, it acts as normall interrupt

[hidden dune]

I meant normal interrupts

Interrupts in interrupts are just 2nd level interrupts, which have priority over normal interrupts

[tardy quarry]

no the priority is determined by the order u put them in the interrupt schedual

[tardy quarry]

interrupt^2 can trigger when the train leaves station C, which normal interrup cannot

[hidden dune]

Okay, can you explain normal interrupts to me, like I'm a six year old girl?
Please:>

[tardy quarry]

when a train leaves a station, it checks the interrupt schedule one by one and the first one that satisfies the condition is triggered. Once triggered the train will add temporary schedual(s) based on how the interrupt was defined

[hidden dune]

Oh, so interrupt can add several temporary stations

And on these temporary stations, only 2nd level interrupts can add another temporary stations, normal can't

[tardy quarry]

yes

that’s what I call long interrupts

[hidden dune]

Can interrupt in interrupt interrupt an interrupt in interrupt?

[tardy quarry]

I think they do

[hidden dune]

Oh, that's neat

[tardy quarry]

not too sure tho

didn’t test it

[hidden dune]

Would make sense for their name

They are called interrupts in interrupts, not 2nd level interrupts

[tardy quarry]

imagine if u have a long interrupt^2 that triggers itself before it finishes

[hidden dune]

Before I thought interrupts can only add 1 temporary station

[tardy quarry]

also a thing is

when an interrupt is triggered, it clears any existing temporary schedules

[hidden dune]

So, interrupts^2 don't act different from interrupts^1, if you don't have long interrupts(which add 2+ temp stations)

Huh?

[tardy quarry]

basically yes

[tardy quarry]

so after the train finished station E, it doesn’t continue to go station D

[hidden dune]

So if interrupt^2 intetrupts long interrupt, the train won't finish what it's been doing? That's sad

[tardy quarry]

yes

tho I still don’t know why we would need to use long interrupts at all

[hidden dune]

Well, I can see potential usecase

Got signal for needing A:

• Go to A load
• Go to A unload

Though A unload still should be covered by a general unload interrupt, so not the best example

[hidden dune]

I wish we got a tutorial from the devs about that

[tardy quarry]

the thing is u can define it using two interrupts

1: go to pickup if needed
2: go to dropoff based on what u have

I fail to see what kind of long interrupt can’t be just defined using multiple short interrupts

[hidden dune]

And two short interrupts is better, because it won't be broken by intettupt^2

[tardy quarry]

yup

[hidden dune]

Wait, does normal interrupt work after D?

[tardy quarry]

yes

[hidden dune]

Maybe D still counts as "In interrupt"

[tardy quarry]

nah

[hidden dune]

When I fail to see the usage of interrupts^2

But the devs definitely used them for something

[tardy quarry]

I think many devs also have no idea why they needed it

perhaps only Kovarex

or Klonan

[shrewd citrus]

it was kovarex, and apparently it was to do with handling spoilage

none of the other devs really knew what he was referring to at the time, nor did anyone else use them for spoilage in the first place 😄

[hidden dune]

[misty falcon]

Not for spoilage, but for generic stations on fulgora handling overflows to go to recycle

[tardy quarry]

I still don’t get why its needed tho because its equivalent to normal interrupts if u don’t do long interrupts

[tropic basin]

Interrupts in interrupts have been mentioned in FFF-389
where it says

There is some very specific case where this is a crucial thing to have, but it is on a planet we didn't reveal yet, so more on that later :) .
Fulgora has been FFF-398

[misty falcon]

I don't understand it either. I asked Kovarex at the LAN, which prompted him to show me and a couple of guys his 200kSPM base

[tropic basin]

He showed you and you still don't understand?

Must be one esoteric use case.

[tardy quarry]

well actually I have and idea where it could be useful: space platform schedule. Because if the destination is not to an adjacent planet it may not follow the route u want, which means u may want to use long interrupts to define a specific space route