Speculations

[shrewd citrus]

and I can neither confirm nor deny any conclusion you reach

[tardy quarry]

where is my jelly yum? 🤯

[worn vigil]

im curious what pepper is scheming now

[tardy quarry]

well I didn’t like it anyway

jelly yum -> nutrient and two of them into AG science feels like its less interesting than

imagine a science made of and

just that is a bit more complicated to make

I hope they change the progression so wiggler eggs are more involved

[worn vigil]

im picturing the same capture mechanic for those egg rafts

[stray wharf]

Egg rafts are made on unbuildable terrain. How would you be able to move eggs out of them?

[worn vigil]

so you cant even use the gleba landfills? what about long inserters?

[stray wharf]

We don't know, but it'd be very strange if you need landfill to harvest eggs. Especially when eggs are way more important now.

[tardy quarry]

biochamber is already kinda a synthetic wiggler nest

[stray wharf]

It'd make sense if Wriggler egg production used bioflux and maybe nutrients. No catalyst needed.

[tardy quarry]

maybe just nutrients and u make bioflux from eggs

[red crow]

So we will have a continuous flow of bioflux to nauvis, as like with calcite

And once started the bacteria process we would be able to cultivate iron and copper on nauvis

Sounds not efficient but possible 😅

[stray wharf]

The thing is, bioflux makes something used for infrastructure. But once you start using it, you have to keep using it, or else the nest will revert to normal. So you have to not only constantly ship a spoilable material in, you have to do something with the eggs you don't need.

[red crow]

Yeah if u have to much captive nests u get big problems

Also when you refactor your nauvis smelting too foundries, no calcite shipping will really hurt you

[tropic basin]

Better make a huge buffer of calcite so you won't run out.

[tardy quarry]

or just void the eggs by recycling or burning them (assuming they are burnable)

[tardy quarry]

nah, make huge buffer of molten metals

[tropic basin]

or that. or both.
whatever floats your boat :)

[worn vigil]

Fair point

[red crow]

Do you think there is something to reduce spore pollution? Like eff modules on nauvis?

[grand fox]

Kind of assuming Eff modules work on any "pollution" since they're kind of the same thing behind the scenes, guess we'll see though

whether the Agriculture Tower has module slots is the question I guess since I think that and biochambers are what generate "spores"?

[tropic basin]

They reduce pollution indirectly by reducing power draw. But that is 1.1. Gleba pollution might not be affected by power draw.

We also know whether the Ag Tower has module slots. (but I can't remember)

[tardy quarry]

claiming more lands helps pollution absorption

[grand fox]

I thought they had a small pollution reduction too but checking base game I guess that's an SE-only thing

[tropic basin]

only the prod mod has a direct pollution modifier
during the boiler phase, efficiency modules effect is twofold though:
a) reduced power consumption reduces pollution from crafting machine
b) reduced power consumption reduces pollution from boilers

[grand fox]

Found it, SE's Eff modules actually do modify pollution:

obviously doesn't apply here but I know I had that in mind from somewhere

[tropic basin]

I mean, it could be a thing in 2.0. Other modules would have to affect pollution too though.

[stray wharf]

Oddly enough... prod modules.

Spore pollution is generated based on the resources harvested. If you harvest fewer resources, you generate less spores.

[hybrid briar]

so which planets flip which systems on their heads and how? haha

[desert coral]

I feel like it probably also has to do with crafting of certain yummy resources too
Otherwise you could merely just build a mining spot,
And then ship all the resources to the other side of your factory, and produce everything there.

[stray wharf]

... that's precisely the thing they want you to do. The map shows that the spore clouds come from the farms, not the farm processors.

[desert coral]

Huh, ok

I wonder, does spoilage affect pollution?

[stray wharf]

Only in that, if the spoilage was unintended, you've wasted a resource that could have gone to a better use.

[stray wharf]

Remember how the FFF stated that biter eggs were useful for agriculture on Gleba? I'm thinking that you use a Biochamber recipe to process them into a fluid which you use with those conspicuous fluid ports on Ag towers.

[wild swallow]

biter yolk

[spare aurora]

as long as biter breeding doesn't require "manual" work to breed.

[stray wharf]

There really isn't any "biter breeding". You hijack a nest, and you get eggs so long as you deliver bioflux. It effectively becomes a production building.

[spare aurora]

i know , i was being crude.

[tardy quarry]

so there will be ways to make placeable captured biter nests

[desert coral]

Their own quirks.
Mmm yes
Enemie forces in a bottle

[tardy quarry]

maybe the spawner as an item also spoils into biters

[stray wharf]

Given that Biochambers have gone from being 40% of your production infrastructure on Gleba to more like 70-80%, is there a chance they decided to add a module slot or two? 2 slots made sense when they were just fancy oil processing machines, but since they're now miners, having at least as many slots as a standard mining drill would be nice.

[open abyss]

Don't think module slots ever made sense for them since they're not electricity powered

[stray wharf]

Power is power; the mechanics of how buildings consume power don't care if it comes from power poles or burner fuels. The ability for burner devices to use modules isn't even new to the 2.0 engine.

[open abyss]

I'm talking about it making sense logically rather than engine being able to do that

Though gameplay wise having such a commonly used building not being able to use modules wouldn't feel great

Unless there are other methods, like more types of fuel other than nutrients

[tardy quarry]

I mostly ignore the module slots in miners tbh except maybe put eff1s to reduce pollution, but that doesn’t matter on Gleba

[stray wharf]

To the extent that modules of any kind "make sense", I don't see how the energy source on them matters. If a speed module pushes the mechanism hard, then it is pushing the power source for that mechanism hard. If a prod module can make a machine craft things more efficiently, why can't it make the machine burn more energy while doing so?

[open abyss]

Because a module made with circuits for circuits probably isn't going to work with a mostly biological building

Same reason why it doesn't work on burner furnaces

[stray wharf]

I don't think there's a lot of circuitry in a Foundry. Or a furnace for that matter.

Technically, an electric furnace has more "circuits" in it than a Foundry if you go by the recipe.

[spare aurora]

Over water it is

[open abyss]

Doesn't foundry have some recipes more advanced than casting?

Like belts

[spare aurora]

yes

it can directly make belts

(tho i am not sure if if you need to feed it gears/intermediates seperatly)

[open abyss]

So it has to have some assembling component which would require circuits

[stray wharf]

I'm guessing that it uses the regular recipe; if it didn't, they'd change the icon.

[stray wharf]

So you're saying that modules should only affect those recipes?

[spare aurora]

either way tho, 50% prod is hard to ignore even if you have to feed it all the intermediates like normal

[spare aurora]

did we ever see a foundry recipe?

[stray wharf]

We saw the recipe icons in the Factoriopedia FFF. Though some of those have changed (LDS-casting, lava processing being split).

[spare aurora]

(not to be rude) but then how do we know foudnrys have less circuits?

[stray wharf]

We also saw the Foundry's recipe in the same FFF screenshot.

[open abyss]

Is there a reason to not give it a recipe with molten metals? Won't break recycling or anything

[spare aurora]

thanks, going to review that one, cause i dont remember that

you are right

[stray wharf]

Well, 30 electronic circuits are technically more overall circuits than 10 advanced circuits. I thought it was only 20, but that was concrete.

Also, that recipe list is missing metal casting iron pipes and sticks.

[spare aurora]

i was just going to say after looking at the refined concrete recipe i was supised sticks arent on there but pipes are a good candidate too

[open abyss]

Wonder if there's going to be a casting recipe for engines

[stray wharf]

Annoyingly, pipes aren't considered intermediates, so you can't prod them (more than the 50% base prod). Which means you can't make engine units with one foundry that switches recipes.

[spare aurora]

madness

[stray wharf]

Nope; some of the LAN party B-roll footage shows them making engines. That's how I first saw metal casting of pipes.

[stray wharf]

Well you can, but you can't prod steel and gear making. If you tried, whenever you switched to pipes, the prods would go away.

[open abyss]

Fair, making engines straight from molten metal feels like skipping too many steps

[spare aurora]

also their is moving parts inside

seems like something you need to assemble.

16 days to go, they days keep slowing down

[keen hound]

we should start counting seconds, i'm sure that'll help 🙂

[stray wharf]

Speaking of metal casting, yet another non-Foundry recipe that can be feed entirely by a single Foundry switching recipes is making refined concrete.

Though I don't have a good idea as to how to best algorithmically program the switching in.

[spare aurora]

if you are willing to suffer a buffer you can do it with time division multiplexing

but you need a source of water

on a timer swap the recipes

each recipe gets a proportional amount of time (Relative to its need)

and cycle thru

you can also use a priority queue to build the least available bit

just pre-code a constant combinator with the desired quantieis, build the least owned one

using the selector combinator to drive the recipe

[open abyss]

There's an option to read assembler's recipe materials, I think you're meant to use that

[spare aurora]

many ways to skin the cat

[fallow flint]

depsite that there probably wont be a recipe for it, at least on release, I can definitley see it becoming a mod

[fossil hawk]

Would be cool if this capture mechanic applied to vulcanus and fulgora too.

Well the last one if the machine enemy is real or not; have them be used as a miner for scrap.

And the devastation as mounts/upgraded trains

[lunar wind]

next fff?

[keen hound]

hmmm, 2 FFFs left.
Prior FFF was about a big Vulcanus feature
This FFF was about a big Gleba feature
Next FFF...

that tracks

some sort of cooling tower relating to Fulgora

well actually no, prior FFF was the fluid thing

but we can gloss over that

[crystal dune]

They want testers not to talk about Aquilo

So I’m guessing they might noy cover the Aquilo building in a fff

There have been many mentions of things “saved for later fffs” that never made the cut

[kindred ice]

How do you know they've not made the cut? Why can't they just be after 2.0's release?

[tardy quarry]

no restrictions

Idk if that means they can talk about Aquilo stuff after embargo lift

[open abyss]

Still doubt that means we'll be getting aquilo fff

[crystal dune]

I mean, they could. But at that point they’re not very useful to me

[crystal dune]

They asked testers not to talk about Aquilo after the NDA lifts. Why would they do that and then talk about it themselves

[tardy quarry]

maybe its a lie

[open abyss]

Maybe things have changed

[tardy quarry]

to ensure we’re not expecting Aquilo fff

[tropic basin]

Testers can talk about Aquilo stuff too, the agreement has been changed afaik.

[crystal dune]

Has it?

[tropic basin]

source:
#friday-facts message

[crystal dune]

[tropic basin]

convo starts 6 messages up

[crystal dune]

Well, it doesn’t matter much to me

[weary widget]

2 more FFFs until release 🔥

I suspect the one several days before 10/21 will be the trailer and more general stuff about the launch/their plans

as for the one next week, I'll just say Aquilo #1 for the heck of it. ie, some descriptions of the planet and some footage of the environment, just like / / had

[wanton igloo]

Also stated in the latest FFF:

Speaking of testers, please be aware that the content/press embargo ends on the 14th October, so if you want to avoid spoilers please keep it in mind as there are no restrictions on what they can show.

[tropic basin]

What time does the NDA expire? 00:00, 24:00 or sometime inbetween?

[wanton igloo]

Unstated

[tropic basin]

better quit Discord at 00:00 at then
and drop spoilers only after 24:00
better safe than sorry

[tardy quarry]

Id say Aquilo mechanics next week, then trailer in the week after

[stray wharf]

Wouldn't they do an intro to Aquilo before talking about its mechanics?

[tardy quarry]

that would take two fffs. If they do Aquilo at all they should do all the content reveal before the embargo lift

[tropic basin]

Content will be revealed with the expansion, lore will not.

[restive linden]

Why would they make an aquilo fff before the embargo lifts

[misty falcon]

To give it the "Earendel Story Time" 😄

[desert coral]

We havent heard anything about enemies on fulgora yet,
So that could still be an FFF assuming they havent already tell us they dont exist

[tropic basin]

ye, I want that

[tropic basin]

we could also have 4th tier asteroid turret or Pepperbox' arm
or any of the topics they teased us with in the last year

If they want to cover them all before release, we'll have to wait until December

[tardy quarry]

next fff: SA delay announcement

[spare aurora]

Doubtful. I think its more likely that they release 2.0 client a week early.

[tardy quarry]

nah I want to see Aquilo please

[spare aurora]

Than delay

[tardy quarry]

I want to see it in fff before its spoiled by embargo lift

but seriously, crazy changes still happening when theres only two weeks left? Are we sure that devs have enough time to comfortably release on time?

well maybe they can release on time uncomfortably

[wild sluice]

There has never been a case in gaming history where a game wasn't released on its deadline. /s

[stray wharf]

It depends on what "comfortable" means. It's entirely possible that significant changes to recipes and the like would happen post-release.

[spare aurora]

Tweaking numbers is cheap.

Art , design and features are slow

[stray wharf]

It's cheap to do; it's less cheap for players to have to rebuild a portion of their base because a balance change broke stuff.

[wild sluice]

I have more faith in wubes beta versions than other developers final stuff.

[spare aurora]

Which is hopefully why theyll do it before shipping.

When its a lot cheaper on everyone to change it

[open abyss]

https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/s/OR6Sd3c1vz

[spare aurora]

Yep. But that’s software dev.

[wanton igloo]

What do you mean with that?

[fallow flint]

What do we think this might be? I’m still incredibly curious seeing how it’s probably related to Aquilo (rails being frozen over perhaps?)

[tropic basin]

one possibility is that the need for interrupts in interrupt has been removed
interrupts themselve are a complex mechanic, and interruptceptions even more so

[open abyss]

Was this fff released after revealing 3 other planets?

[fallow flint]

I mean maybe, but unless the devs say so themselves I doubt it

[tropic basin]

FFFs aren't an exhaustive list of all processes that happen during development

[fallow flint]

It was in 389

[fallow flint]

I mean fair enough, but in general I wouldn’t assume it was removed without having a good reason too believe so

[tropic basin]

before Fulgora and after Vulcanus

[open abyss]

Before spoilage fff, could mean gleba

Though I'm not sure it's really crucial

[fallow flint]

Oh that’s true actually

Yeah that would make a lot of sense actually

[tropic basin]

how is that crucial for spoilage?

[fallow flint]

Not fully crucial but let’s say a train has products that spoil, and they do spoil while in transit, having an interrupt in an interrupt would help with that

At least that makes sense imho

[tropic basin]

interrupts fire when train leaves a station

(also when repathing?)

[fallow flint]

Maybe? I have no clue, maybe the rules are different for in-interrupt interrupts

[tropic basin]

why would they?

I'm not saying interruptceptions aren't useful for spoilage, but they certainly aren't crucial.

[fallow flint]

I did say maybe, I just have no clue as to why they would wouldn’t

[fallow flint]

True enough, but I mean it’s the only lead we really have

Other than it maybe being on Aquilo

[tropic basin]

that's what I'm thinking

[fallow flint]

Because other than spoilage, I have no clue what it could be used for

[tropic basin]

or the mechanic requiring interruptception has been removed. stuff is moving during development

you don't know what you don't know

[open abyss]

You could have interrupt controlled trains need to be rerouted to the spoilage disposal station mid way if cargo contents get spoiled

But I'm not sure if your spoilables trains need to be interrupt controlled instead of regular schedules, and you should have spoilage filter on the drop station anyway

[fallow flint]

Still true, but I still have no reason to believe that, and I would rather believe they wouldn’t remove announced features like that without prior notice, (like how the Aquilo enemies were recently confirmed as removed, or the synthetic nest being both shown off and explained to have been removed in the last FFF)

I’m not saying that for all features

But I would think that the devs would mention it somewhere at least

[tropic basin]

they wouldn’t remove announced features
the feature requiring interruptceptions hasn't been announced

[fallow flint]

I mean true but I feel like they would mention it even if it’s main functionality wasn’t announced and then remove it silently

[tropic basin]

we only get one FFF per week

[fallow flint]

Like in general why are you so persistent that it may have been removed? Sure it’s complicated, but there are a lot of complicated features already in the game

[tropic basin]

why are you so persistently trying to tie interruptceptions to the know information?

I'm merely trying to point out there's a lot of unknown stuff.

[fallow flint]

I am quite aware, but I would still feel like they would mention an announced feature, even if not fully shown off, would be removed with no warning

[fallow flint]

I’m not, I’m only speculating, and overall curious on others opinions

I’m never said it is tied to information I only offered an example of how it could be used

[tropic basin]

are you talking about interruptceptions? they're likely still in the game
the other thing where interruptceptions are "crucial", that thing hasn't been announced

[fallow flint]

Indeed I am very aware

[fallow flint]

Oh I may have slightly misunderstood your argument, that’s fair enough to be honest

[fallow flint]

In that case I do agree with you, personally I would like to believe that it’s still in the game, but seeing how Aquilo enemies have been removed, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was in that case

[tropic basin]

yeah, lots of unknowns

[open abyss]

Don't think whatever use case those interrupts could possibly have on aquilo were related to enemies

[fallow flint]

Oh I know, it was a possibility, but still many unknowns

[tropic basin]

the only use case I could come up with was when using a generic interrupt based train schedule and you want to refuel your train
but that's not tied to a planet

improved spoilage handling is tied to a planet, but not crucial

[fallow flint]

Indeed, we will have to wait and see then

[tropic basin]

hiding from lightning storms on Fulgora isn't needed because trains are immune

[fallow flint]

And there’s nothing on vulcanus that could probably need it as well

[tropic basin]

actually not tied to a planet anymore

[fallow flint]

Indeed

[tropic basin]

the FFF said: on a planet not yet revealed

[fallow flint]

Also true

[tropic basin]

all the leads pointing to the realm of known information turn out dead
most of the unknown information is on Aquilo, so it's reasonable to expect it there

[fallow flint]

Indeed

[stray wharf]

My pet theory is that this was about lightning on Fulgora. At one point it was dangerous to trains (but not to rails). But then they decided that it was just annoying to shut down all train traffic periodically, so they took that out. And thus this feature was orphaned.

[spare aurora]

If you have a train with spoilables you can just set an interupt for spoilage and if there is any after dropping off its normal load it can disgorge itself before going back for more spoilable items. Since interupts run in order just put the spoils at the end.

[stray wharf]

Or you could just unload any spoilage at the place where you're picking up spoilables.

[spare aurora]

Yea depends how your handling it.

But either way the interupt system should be able to handle it

[tropic basin]

Take it out the other side of the train and dump it into another station for a dedicated train to pick it up.

The place where the train ships the spoilables to has to be able to handle spoilage anyway. Either directly or by sending it away via train. Might as well use that infrastructure when it's there.

[lunar wind]

huge plot twist cooling for fusion can only be done on 🧊

(or the ice to cool it can only be mined there)

[tardy quarry]

I guess they were related to Aquilo enemy which is removed together

things only become crucial when it’s about defending things right?

[tropic basin]

that's plausible

I'm curious what the Devs came up with for Aquilo. I really hope they make that mod.

[tardy quarry]

Aquilo enemy mod

[forest cradle]

late to the party, but i think eff3 will actually come from space science

source: i made it up

[timid crescent]

Was going to say, we were told the modules will be gotten off-nauvis, and I suppose that's a very literal interpretation of the statement

[forest cradle]

it seems to me to make the most sense, the place where efficiency counts the most is where you research it

[stray wharf]

But we kinda know that this isn't "literally" true, since prod modules come from Nauvis... kinda.

[timid crescent]

I'm still holding out for an efficiency module buff

All the modules can be made on nauvis

[stray wharf]

Yes, but the material needed for prods come from Nauvis.

[timid crescent]

Which is a big reason why I would probably want to make them there, it's probably where I'll be making the most circuits

[stray wharf]

In any case, there was some b-roll footage where someone queued up a bunch of science all at once. One of those sciences was "Captivity", which we now know is a Gleba science. Another was "fish breeding", which sounds like a very useful thing to have if you want to make Spidertrons. Since the same player was queuing them up, odds are good that they were from the same planet.

Among these recipes was "efficiency module 3".

So Gleba seems to have 2 modules, but one of them is half shared with Nauvis and the other is mostly a throwaway.

[shrewd citrus]

hey, efficiency module 3's aren't throwaways anymore!

[serene sage]

so the "one t3 module per planet" prediction has proven false?

[timid crescent]

Not really

Just implied to be false

[crystal dune]

But the material needed to make that material comes from Gleba...

[tropic basin]

how so?

[serene sage]

.

[tropic basin]

Since the same player was queuing them up, odds are good that they were from the same planet.
I don't agree with that line.

If it was different players, we would not assume it's from different planets.

[timid crescent]

It's a weak line of reasoning

[serene sage]

yeah after reading more context it seems like a non sequitur

[hidden dune]

Well, technically the one that uses biter eggs is Nauvis t3 module, since that's where you produce it

[tropic basin]

it's produced on Nauvis, with items from Gleba and unlocks on Gleba. Where is the module from? :)

[hidden dune]

But if it's same player, there are higher odds on researches being from same planet

[tropic basin]

no

A player can queue researches from different planets freely.

My point was taking the inverse of the reasoning and showing that the inverted conclusion doesn't make sense. So the reasoning is faulty.

[hidden dune]

Your point doesn't make sense. It sounds like:
"All who are cats have ears"
"All who have ears are cats"

You can't just inverse the reasoning

It's not how causation works

[tropic basin]

You could argue that researches that are closely together in the research tree will be researched/queued up closely togehter in a timely manner (uh, lack of english). But that was not the point that was made.

[hidden dune]

If two players queue, then there are higher odds on researches not being close

[tropic basin]

Yes, you can. It's called "Reductio ad absurdum".
You prove the existence of something by proving the opposite cannot exists. Need to be careful with inverting the thing though.

[hidden dune]

If it was different players, we would not assume it's from different planets.
But we will assume there's a higher chance of that

Because two players can look up different parts of the tree

[tropic basin]

One player can look up different parts of the tree.

it's a non sequitur

[crystal dune]

You can produce any module anywhere, they're not exclusive recipes
"Where they're from" is determined by the science pack used to research them

[hidden dune]

One player is more likely to queue 2 close researches, than 2 players queueing 2 close researches

[hidden dune]

"where you produce it" was related to biter eggs - main ingredient in t3 prod modules

[crystal dune]

That is where you produce it, but that doesn't make it a Nauvis item

Because it's not a Nauvis tech

But honestly this is just semantics

[tropic basin]

It requires Nauvis items and Gleba research. It definitely blurs the line.

[tardy quarry]

so eff probably use Gleba items

[strong turret]

What would you consider to be a Gleba item?

[misty falcon]

Bioflux

Seeds

Mash

Jelly yum

[tardy quarry]

these

tbh I hope u use bioflux to make prod 3 modules instead of biter eggs

the latter sounds a bit too late in the game

[open abyss]

Do we know if other tier 3 modules are unlocked before you build rocket silo on their planet?

[tardy quarry]

probably not

I assume u need the planet science back Nauvis to unlock the modules

in that sense biter eggs are not that faraway

but still it’s worse than Vulcanus and Fulgora modules

[stray wharf]

You can build a rocket silo whenever you like on a planet. We know that the quality module 3 recipe uses superconducting wire, which is a precursor to the science pack. So in theory you could research qual module 3s without ever launching anything from Fulgora.

In practice of course, the 6 original science packs will likely be required for at least some Fulgora research, and those aren't cheap. So you're likely to want to ship Fulgora's science off-world for research purposes.

That is, I wouldn't take the fact that the prod 3 recipe requires a Nauvis-only resource fueled by a Gleba-only resource as evidence that this is how most module 3s will work.

[tardy quarry]

the thing is, I would expect most things except the techs u need to makes the science to not be trigger techs

[open abyss]

Researching quality 3 modules might require nauvis science and for that you need to build a rocket

[strong turret]

Which things are you expecting to be trigger techs?

[open abyss]

Unless you want to rebuild all the vanilla science on fulgora

I imagine only few early essentials will be unlocked via trigger tech, then everything leading to the rocket researched with planet's pack only, the rest requires navuis sciences as well

[tardy quarry]

nah I think any tech with just the planet pack would means temporary labs on the planet which is bad game design

I think u can unlock everything u need to make the science pack and send them back to Nauvis via trigger techs

[stray wharf]

What do you mean by "nauvis science"? There's no indication that the first 6 packs are Nauvis-exclusive recipes. So in theory you could make them on Fulgora. Space science is different since it needs a Nauvis resources and basically functions as Nauvis's planet-specific pack.

[stray wharf]

I really don't think Gleba in particular is going to work out that way. There are way too many completely new recipes you need to know in order to be able to locally source rocket parts. That would likely be an overwhelming number of recipes for a new player.

[tardy quarry]

I mean isn’t Fulgora and Vulcanus also overwhelmingly big for new players

large number of recipes is not scary if they come from simple combinations of a few items

its mainly the spoilage mechanics that makes Gleba hell

and people just need to deal with it no matter what

[stray wharf]

Vulcanus's recipe stack is pretty simple:

• Basic liquefaction
• sulfuric acid neutralization
• Water condensation
• Carbon from coal
• tungsten carbide
• Foundry
• lava processing for iron and copper
• Tungsteel
• BMD
• Science pack.

[tardy quarry]

u forgot all the casting recipes for rocket

and for local mall

[open abyss]

They're unlocked on nauvis, you already have them built on nauvis and you probably don't want to rebuild them all on the new planets again

[tardy quarry]

u see theres casting pipe, gear and steel to craft engines for electric motor for BMD in the b roll

that’s not a small number of recipes

[stray wharf]

But that's my point: you're assuming that doing science and building a rocket + parts are at the same tier on each planet. My point is that engagement with something like that is likely not required because it throws way too many recipes at the player.

[open abyss]

I think having everything pre rocket being a trigger tech isn't the most fun design either

[tardy quarry]

why is that a problem

u have infinite tech at home running

u may even not want to interrupt your infinite research at home for things u need to unlock to make rockets elsewhere

[open abyss]

Also you probably can automate planet's science a while before building a rocket, what are you going to do with it until then?

[tardy quarry]

just build a rocket before science then

and u can always send science faster than u can produce them

[open abyss]

Why do you need to unlock science that early then?

[tardy quarry]

just buffer some science if it doesn’t spoil

[tardy quarry]

u don’t need to

[stray wharf]

Remember: the developers added trigger techs to specifically counter the whole "here's a dozen new recipes, maybe do stuff with them". And you're suggesting that they will now employ this mechanism to create the exact problem they built it to avoid?

[tardy quarry]

u can actually unlock the ability to make rocket before making science

[tardy quarry]

the trigger tech is there to avoid u not touching the recipes and keep unlocking them

it solves the issue perfectly no matter how the tech tree looks

[open abyss]

Locking science behind building first rocket doesn't sound very fun to me

The whole implication of "science is only to be exported"

I'd rather do a bit of local research, shouldn't be hard to set up and tear down

[tardy quarry]

my point is that u probably already unlocked the ability to build rocket there on the way to get science

[open abyss]

I don't think those science recipes are that complex

[tardy quarry]

what’s the difference between local research and trigger tech if u need to remove those temporary labs anyway

[stray wharf]

OK: this is the known tree before the Gleba rework. Yumako Mash is used for 4 separate recipes. What 4 different conditions trigger them and how is the player intended to react to them?

[tardy quarry]

u know, u can have trigger techs saying ‘making 500 local science’

[stray wharf]

... are you serious?

[tardy quarry]

r u assuming theres no recipes being removed/simplified after the rework?

[open abyss]

I think having to figure out automating the new science is more fun than always focusing on getting the rocket first

[tardy quarry]

at least it is better than having to setup a local lab to research just the local science

[open abyss]

I do not view this as better

[stray wharf]

... why is that better?

[tardy quarry]

well u can always ship in rocket parts anyway

I don’t think getting rocket will be difficult

[open abyss]

That's not a fun way to do that either

[stray wharf]

Why is throwing 15+ new recipes at the player better than saying "just build some labs"?

[tardy quarry]

because u don’t build local lab and they become totally useless later

[open abyss]

Isn't that how early game on nauvis already works

You don't start building the end game build the moment you land

I really don't see the harm of doing a bit of local research before you can start exporting science if it's as simple as local science pack only

[tardy quarry]

okay u use local science to research recipes to make rockets, it probably takes u 20 mins to unlock all of them. now u have to build rockets (from some new recipes) and your science production becomes idle

it that what u prefer to have?

[open abyss]

Not exactly the way I imagined it, maybe you have a point

[stray wharf]

So the developers have two choices:

• Extend the early game on every planet with a bunch of dead time while they slowly build the infrastructure to launch a rocket, deluging the player with a copious number of trigger techs all intended to give the player what they need to get rockets going.
• Player builds labs on the planet and does some early cheap research, and they may need to decommission those labs later.

That's a real tough design choice.

[open abyss]

I don't mind the research going idle eventually but it probably shouldn't be "here's the recipes you need, you can research all of them the moment you get science pack"

[stray wharf]

Everyone builds starter bases, things you need to just get going with basic stuff.

You build it, and tear it down once you're ready to build the main base. It's not a complicated thing.

[open abyss]

I'm not sure how many steps you can fit into the rocket production with just one science pack

[stray wharf]

Or you ship in science from Nauvis and keep researching.

[tardy quarry]

how I imagined it is, u start from scratch, knowing nothing, hand mine some rock/tree to get some new raw materials to trigger basic production buildings, get some raw resources from the environment to kickstart basic productions, once u have produced some basic components u trigger more techs to allow to to explore the crafting tree more with one or two new buildings, then with some more advanced intermediates crafted u trigger the necessary recipes for u to craft rockets and science locally. It is up to u to make science first or rocket first but they are all available at this point

[tardy quarry]

or ship in rocket parts so u don’t need to worry about local rocket production

[tardy quarry]

no players can choose to bring rocket parts here

its a bad idea to unlock local rocket from local science pack because that’s what actually makes progression slower

u should naturally unlock local rocket on the way to local science

and u can choose to ignore local rocket completely

as nothing stops u from importing rocket parts

less efficient perhaps but efficiency is for later game

[stray wharf]

That's way less efficient than shipping science packs (which have a rocket capacity of 1000).

[open abyss]

Having just few buildings/recipes needed for the rocket be locked behind science wouldn't make it that much slower

And imo it feels more natural than doing science post rocket

[stray wharf]

Makes what progression slower?

[tardy quarry]

how many rockets can u fit in a rocket?

[stray wharf]

Less than 1000 per launch.

[tardy quarry]

one rocket equals 1000 packs

[stray wharf]

The closest to a number we've seen is that you can get 300 blue circuits into a single rocket.

[tardy quarry]

say 150 blue circuits = one rocket, each rocket can send two rockets to Gleba which means 2000 AG science back

u need 12 rockets to send enough science from Nauvis to Gleba

[stray wharf]

... huh? Rocket parts aren't made of blue circuits. They need other stuff too.

[stray wharf]

7 rockets.

[tardy quarry]

assuming other stuff is similar weight

[tardy quarry]

2000 AG science needs 2000 of each science

oh so it’s actually 7*2 = 14

my bad

forgot that u need to send space science back to ground and send it to orbit again

[tardy quarry]

what’s your expected rocket capacity of rocket fuels and lds?

also keep in mind that rocket fuel will be very easy on Gleba

[stray wharf]

The massive amount of copper LDS uses acts as a strong limitation on how many can fit into a rocket.

[tardy quarry]

the massive amount of copper used in blue chips didn’t reflect on their weight

[stray wharf]

If copper plates have a rocket capacity of 1000, LDS can't have a capacity higher than 1/5th of that.

[tardy quarry]

that’s not how factorio works

[stray wharf]

That's because copper plates are multiple recycler steps down the chain. Recycling one LDS produces 5 copper.

[tardy quarry]

numbers are tuned manually

[stray wharf]

If LDS has a capacity of more than 200, you can get 1000 copper plates from them, making shipping LDS a more efficient (in terms of rockets) way to ship copper plates.

[open abyss]

I doubt these numbers will make importing rocket parts a good option, emergency option at best

What's the point of having the new processing chain if you can choose to not interact with most of it

[tardy quarry]

also remember theres prod modules inside silo

[stray wharf]

At the end of the day, your argument is basically that setting up temporary labs is so bad that the developers will design planets with the expectation that players to send rocket parts to other planets just so that those planets can send their science packs back to Nauvis. And therefore, the developers won't have a problem dumping 20+ new recipes on a player before they get to actually research anything.

[tardy quarry]

yes

theres trigger techs that handle the 20+ recipe part

[stray wharf]

The very problem trigger techs were meant to avoid.

And you still haven't explained exactly how you trigger tech so many things that come from relatively few intermediates. Unless you think Gleba went back to the 1-fruit-per-product mechanism they previously used, these recipes are going to be an interconnected web of a small set of intermediates. So how do you trigger tech all of those without dumping a lot of recipes on the player?

[tardy quarry]

I think u don’t appreciate how good trigger techs can handle the 20+ recipe progression

what’s wrong with unlocking 10 recipes from ingredients that u r already producing?

[stray wharf]

That's literally the problem trigger techs were invented to solve. The whole point of them is to not do that.

[tardy quarry]

especially when those out puts are the items u already familiar with

[tardy quarry]

no

u understand it wrongly

[stray wharf]

The example I gave with Vulcanus explains how it works. There's a clear progression of triggers:

• getting calcite gives you basic liquefaction.
• pumping acid gives you acid neutralization and steam condensation.
• getting tungsten ore gives you carbon and tungsten carbide
• getting tungsten carbide gives you the Foundry, lava processing and metal casting
• getting a Foundry gives you tungsteel
• tungsteel gives you the science pack and BMDs.

There's a clear sense of progression of triggers leading to the science pack, and each trigger comes from a particular thing and only gives you one or two things. The Foundry trigger is the only exception, as it comes with a plethora of recipes. But you're generally familiar with most of them.

[tardy quarry]

the point of trigger tech is not to prevent u unlocking 10 recipes at once. Its to prevent u unlocking stuff two steps ahead

[stray wharf]

I really don't think the developers are going to put a gigantic roadblock in a planet's progression that will force the player to build up a massive infrastructure just to continue functioning. That sounds like something SE would do, not SA.

[tardy quarry]

SE doesn’t have infinite tech on Nauvis u can do while u go through other planets big puzzle

[late sentinel]

that's a lot of triggers

reminds me of minecraft modpack quest book

[stray wharf]

It's only really 6 triggers. Gleba likely would have to have more, especially with the new ore processing stuff that you need to have before you can even make a biochamber.

[late sentinel]

what's the reason it's needed before biochamber?

that will require some other explanations because the FFF shows it being done in biochambers

[stray wharf]

OK, I guess you don't strictly need them before the biochamber, but they are usable without the biochamber.

• Stromatolites are rock-like objects which have formed there over many years, acting as accumulated bacteria and ore for you to quickly obtain at the start.
• Yumako/Jellynut can be processed with a small chance to obtain Copper/Iron bacteria respectively, reinforcing the feeling that there really isn't much in it.
• Soon enough you unlock the Biochamber, and as you are the ingenuous engineer, you replicate and grow the bacteria in it to truly industrial amounts.

Note that step 3, unlocking the biochamber, happens after step 2. So those recipes have to be assembler and/or hand-craftable.

[late sentinel]

That is rather irrefutable.

[worn vigil]

at what point do the triggers actually help rather than hold back, if it's physically something I can't craft without touching said item/resource then it makes sense

[grand fox]

The entire point was to eliminate weirdness for new players where you would research Fluid Handling > Oil Refining > Plastic > Red Chips+Sulfur+Explosives+etc > Mining Prod 2, before having possibly even seen Oil, then open up a Chemplant and have 5-6 new recipes and no idea what was even important yet.

For SA specific stuff, it guarantees you have to actually land on the planet and interact with new things rather than researching say "Travel to Vulcanus" and then a chain of probably 5-6 new techs (shot in the dark but Acid Neutralization, Liquifaction, Lava Processing, Tungsten Mining, Vulcanus Science Pack) before having even built a space platform capable of getting there.

[worn vigil]

ok that's actually a reasonable example

I was just worried that I cant make a pumpjack if i havent touched an oil slick

[grand fox]

For pumpjacks specifically I'm guessing the are rolled into Fluid Handling (or their own tech), but you must place one before you can put down refineries or chemplants

[worn vigil]

so, based on that you need to actually have oil being produced before you can even craft refineries or chemplants?

this seems kinda restrictive honestly

[grand fox]

Also I just noticed but the unlock is free and instant

you put down one pumpjack, click Start Research, and you now can make refineries

[chilly cloak]

but id assume the pumpjack tech still costs the same

[grand fox]

From an established player yeah it somewhat is, but having introduced a lot of new people to the game and watched them setup it is a lot to dump on a new person. There's kind of a lot of Red+Green tech you can just kind of unlock and then do nothing with for a while.

Again looking at Vulcanus though, it's the same deal where you could unlock the Foundry before even being able to pump lava or have seen Tungsten.

[worn vigil]

now those red-green techs I agree with, it's particularly annoying, they're mainly personal equipment but requires you to have advanced circuits to make use of, so i could see the trigger tech for those being gated by producing advanced circuits

but really, as a seasoned player it doesnt bother me as much now, because i can just not research them if i dont need personal equipment yet

[worn vigil]

initially I thought they'd reveal a new logistic mode for use on platforms since they've taken out everything but inserters and belts, so pneumatic tubes could potentially bridge the gap, and possibly also be used in terrestrial settings as well

[misty falcon]

What's wrong with inserters and belts?

[worn vigil]

they're good, I just thought they'd add something instead of ONLY taking things away

[misty falcon]

Renai throwers!

[worn vigil]

it makes a lot of sense in the absence of gravity, maybe you'd need a catcher inserter to pull it off?

(with baseball mit)

[tardy quarry]

it seems like as soon as u unlock biochamber, u will be able to multiply bacterias using bioflux

[misty falcon]

Well, you still need to make bioflux

[tardy quarry]

so making biochambler triggers bioflux, and making bioflux triggers bioflux related recipes?

I guess ‘crafting a machine’ works well as a trigger

u probably don’t ‘need’ the bacteria breeding to make your first agriculture tower and biochamber

as u can harvest a lot of iron and copper (bacteria)from rocks

but I think bacteria breeding will still be a trigger tech

[stray wharf]

The following is what I would consider to be the minimum trigger techs needed to get to Ag science under the new paradigm. This presumes that the recipe for Ag science replaces Jelly-Nuts with Bioflux, and the assumption that bioflux comes from the two mashes in a biochamber:

• Yumako or Jellynut: yumako mash+seeds and jellynut mash+seeds
• Yumako mash or Jellynut mash: spoilage+iron ore and spoilage+copper ore
• Spoilage: carbon, nutrients
• Eggs and seeds: biochamber and yumako mash->nutrients
• Placed biochamber: bioflux
• Bioflux : Ag science

Note that of these recipes, only 3 of them likely require the biochamber (though several can still be done in one). Also, this represents a similar number of recipes to what you get on Vulcanus, and they have a similar number of required biochambers vs. required foundries.

If you want someone to be able to launch rockets before they can do science, you would need to add some way to trigger the following recipes:

• ore catalysis
• rocket fuel
• plastic
• sulfur
• lubricant (you need lube to make a silo, not to run one)
• egg manufacturing
• baked jellynuts & jelly-yums & nutrients-from-jelly-yums (for mass nutrient production, thanks to all of the biochambers you'll need to sustain rocket launches)

Note that baked jellynuts could be an ingredient in bioflux instead of jellynut mash, so that would be triggered above. Regardless, pretty close to double the recipes.

[misty falcon]

This channel is going to die on Monday.

Was a great time though

[stray wharf]

I think we need a thread specifically for people asking specific questions of those who actually know the answers.

[tropic basin]

something like #no-spoilers?

[stray wharf]

Like the opposite of that: a thread specifically for being spoiled, but very specifically.

[tropic basin]

I'm in a discord server with both #spoilers and #no-spoilers.
#no-spoilers is the one where we use spoiler tags (and limit answers to what was asked)

[tardy quarry]

why can’t u unlock all of them by bioflux produced

[stray wharf]

I guess that goes back to the whole "is it good gameplay if trigger techs dumping a bunch of recipes on a player in a short space of time?" thing.

[tardy quarry]

rocket fuel, plastic, sulfur, lubricant are all products that players already know. Assuming u make them from bioflux + fruits, its similar to molten recipes on Vulcanus

and bacteria breeding is also just a new way to make items that players already know

jelly-yum ikd

I feel like they removed it

now u make 50 nutrients from bioflux

[stray wharf]

A new, more complicated way that requires another biochamber that they have to farm eggs for.

[tardy quarry]

nothing wrong with that

[stray wharf]

You do know that bioflux was in the game before they made these changes, right?

[tardy quarry]

probably not as early as where it is now

[stray wharf]

Playtesters: Hey, Gleba's start is slow.

You: Let's change Gleba's start to be way slower.

[tardy quarry]

not way slower if its interesting

and I’m sure u will automate eggs earlier than u think

[stray wharf]

Attacking a dozen biter nests for eggs is not "interesting". It's interesting the first time. After doing it 3-4 times, it's just tedium.

[tardy quarry]

u just need to attack one nest for about 9 eggs

[misty falcon]

you need eggs anyways for stuff

also it's not biters on gleba

[tardy quarry]

oh theres more needs for eggs?

[misty falcon]

it's pentapods

[stray wharf]

That might be just enough biochambers to make the... copper you need. You now need another 9 for the iron you need. Then another several for all the bioflux and nutrients you need to run those things. Etc.

[tardy quarry]

I’m gonna be happy if pentapod eggs are used for a vital item

[stray wharf]

No other planet requires dozens of its main machine to be able to produce science packs.

[tardy quarry]

how much copper do u think u need anyway

[misty falcon]

There are some needs for them, which is enough

[tardy quarry]

not just for biochamber?

[stray wharf]

You are the one arguing that players will need to launch rockets before they can actually start researching Gleba stuff. Rockets are not cheap, even in SA.

[tardy quarry]

hey they are

[misty falcon]

biochamber is required for pretty much everything on the planet

[tardy quarry]

I think the amount of biochamber u need for ore will be much less than how many u need for science and other products

[misty falcon]

yeah naturally

[tardy quarry]

so the fighting for egg arguments doesn’t really stands for me

u probably unlock egg automation by trigger techs

[misty falcon]

If it's tedious, it's probably not what the devs planned

Like how burners can be made quickly and you don't need to mine even a single ore patch

Of course, some players like holding their button on a patch for some reason

Small difference is that bio stuff spoils 😛

[tardy quarry]

spoilage is useful anyway

I wonder if devs simplified pentapod egg automation by making the eggs easy to void

if so theres chance they go into AG science

[misty falcon]

It's easy to void eggs. Put them in a chest and have turrets around it 😛

[tardy quarry]

🤣

[tropic basin]

in a single stack, or should we spread them out?

[tardy quarry]

imagine doing that force spawn the wigglers

[misty falcon]

Indeed. As mentioned in FFF, they spoil to wigglers 😄

[tardy quarry]

can we please turn eggs into nutrients or burn them as fuel?

I still wonder what will be the main power source on Gleba

nuclear?

boiler?

do u need a lot of power here anyway that biochambers takes nutrients only

do they also take power tho

[stray wharf]

Gleba's got plenty of water and fuel literally grows on trees. Assuming that spoilage's fuel value has not been buffed in the recent changes, before you've learned how to turn fruit into rocket fuel you can always run your factories on carbon, which is produced from spoilage. You can even do this more efficiently (though slower) if you turn mash into nutrients and let them spoil, then burn the spoilage for carbon.

At the same time, now that the initial part of Gleba involves deliberately making spoilage because ores are a byproduct of that process, you're going to have a lot of it lying around. May as well turn it into a useful fuel.

[tardy quarry]

spoilage is probably the initial way to make nutrients as the fruit version requires biochamber

I wonder if u can just burn fruits as fuel

[stray wharf]

There's a recipe to turn mash into spoilage. One the FFF makes pretty clear is an assembler recipe and thus is hand-craftable (but it's also usable in the biochamber).

Also, it's never wise to make a fuel also be a furnace ingredient (though that's what they did with spoilage, so...)

So if you need some spoilage, you just mash the fruit (and collect any seeds) and then turn it into spoilage (and collect any ore bacteria).

But the "make nutrients and let them spoil" trick is for later when you want to mass produce things that use spoilage as an input, like carbon fiber or sulfur.

[tardy quarry]

wait theres an assembler recipe from mash to spoilage?

where was that

[stray wharf]

• Stromatolites are rock-like objects which have formed there over many years, acting as accumulated bacteria and ore for you to quickly obtain at the start.
• Yumako/Jellynut can be processed with a small chance to obtain Copper/Iron bacteria respectively, reinforcing the feeling that there really isn't much in it.
• Soon enough you unlock the Biochamber, and as you are the ingenuous engineer, you replicate and grow the bacteria in it to truly industrial amounts.

Note that step 3 comes after the Biochamber, which implies that step 2 comes before the biochamber.

[tardy quarry]

that makes sense

the thing is if u want to get spoilages this way u have ore as byproduct

[stray wharf]

Also, they really need to buff the number of module slots Biochambers have. Because unless there's something we don't know about those recipes, I can't see a reason to ever use the Biochamber version (maybe to save power) over using an assembler 3 (more module slots and faster).

[tardy quarry]

well it could also be that the recipe is hand craftable but not in assemblers

[stray wharf]

Yes, but you need that byproduct and it's not an efficient way to make spoilage. The nutrient method makes way more spoilage per fruit consumed.

[tardy quarry]

or devs forgot that u actually need biochambers to automate it

[stray wharf]

It doesn't work that way for fruit mashing; those can be used in both assemblers and biochambers.

[tardy quarry]

it could also be that u get more fuel value by burning the fruits directly

[tardy quarry]

fruit mashing can be in biochambers?

[stray wharf]

According to B-roll footage, yes. It's how I first found confirmation that green cubes come from jellynuts.

[tardy quarry]

nice observation

it could be that the biochamber recipe is the no seed version

the assembler recipe gives u seed but much less mash

it also seems like biochambers don’t consume electricity

[stray wharf]

Except for possibly the seed thing, I really don't think anything can get over "is 25% faster, doesn't require a hazardous intermediate and therefore is easier to quality cycle, and has 4 module slots".

At least one of those needs to be removed as an assembler advantage.

[tardy quarry]

I mean the seed recipe could have much lower mash yield

also they could have changed it so the seed recipe can only be handcrafted

or in biochamber

what if biochamber has base speed of 2

[tardy quarry]

this is fair tho

u may not need the mash to trigger biochamber tho, imagine the assembler recipe only gives u seed and no mash

or the assembler recipe is removed entirely

u just get some seed from trees to kickstart

where do u get your first seed to start the agriculture tower anyway

[stray wharf]

You don't get seeds from trees; you get seeds from fruit mashing.

[tardy quarry]

why don’t u get seed from trees

I mean

the tree u chop down manually

or they changed it so u don’t need seeds to make the biochamber

[restive linden]

Heard an sa streamer say “rail gun” by accident when looking through blueprints

[tardy quarry]

now u only need pentapod eggs and some metal parts

[tardy quarry]

🔫

[misty falcon]

Are there SA streamers already?

Embargo lifts only on Monday

[stray wharf]

... because that's how "fruit" works? Like, that's what "fruit" literally is: it's the seed-bearing part of a plant that also contains something to make it enticing for other creatures to eat, thus allowing the seeds to be spread farther away when those animals poop them out later.

[misty falcon]

@tardy quarry https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/blog-sync/fff-414-assembling.mp4

[tardy quarry]

I mean this is before the Gleba change right?

I trust nothing from this fff now

WHERE is my jelly yum?

[tardy quarry]

but since u posted this one

I guess I will trust you

[misty falcon]

This shows a yumako being mashed into mash and seeds, in an assembler

[tardy quarry]

the fact that u made this post implies it stays the same after the Gleba change

btw the recipe icon looks gross now I had a closer look

@misty falcon how does the jellynut mashing recipe icon looks? I guess its even more disgusting

[stray wharf]

Where was Bioflux from the first FFF? It was always there; it just wasn't something they wanted to discuss beyond a brief mention.

The more recent FFF talks a lot about Bioflux because... the stuff it talks about is where bioflux gets used (though some of that is a more recent change). They didn't need to talk about Jelly-yums because those weren't involved in the changes they wanted to talk about.

Gleba could have changed radically more than what we saw. But there's nothing in what we saw that I would say requires any substantial changes to what we've seen. Like, they could have changed the plastic or rocket fuel recipes. But they would only have done that if those recipes were part of a problem they wanted to resolve.

I would hazard a guess that Bioflux in old-Gleba was used for pentapod egg replication and Nauvis biter egg production. So in that version, it was probably something you researched, like carbon fiber and all of its ilk.

But since the new version uses Bioflux to propagate ore bacteria, it's probably lower in the tech tree. It may even have a simpler recipe, since you'll need a decent amount of it.

[weary widget]

it wouldn't surprise me if those blue tank shell looking things from the space age logo are the ammo for that

[desert coral]

Like they were playing regular factorio and said it?

[crystal dune]

That was my first guess too, but it's not the case

I caught a glimpse of a mashing biochamber outputting seeds

[tardy quarry]

oh

[crystal dune]

I assume the biochambers just use a different, more efficient recipe

[tardy quarry]

it could be that biochamber has base speed of 2

[crystal dune]

Because there is legitimately no reason to use it otherwise

[tardy quarry]

like centrifuges

well it would be perfectly fine if biochamber has base speed of 2 and 50% built in prod

[stray wharf]

Considering that the biochamber only shares... 4 recipes with the assembler, it'd probably be better to just create biochamber-specific versions of those recipes.

[crystal dune]

It's somewhat unusual, I agree, but it's better than the alternative

[tardy quarry]

maybe remove the assembler version

[stray wharf]

... why? Unlike most things on Gleba, Biochambers do not grow on trees. Early on, biochambers will be scarce, and the more the player can devote to science production, the faster they can progress.

Indeed, the first stage of the planet's special resource production not using the main building is pretty common. Tungsteel may be a Foundry process, but tungsten carbide is not. Holmium ore first goes into a chemical plant, then an assembler/Foundry. It's only after those that it goes into an EMP.

It would be strange indeed for Gleba to force biochambers onto people so quickly. Especially since making biochambers requires combat early on. I know you think it's good game design to force players to engage with dangerous spoiling processes like catalytic egg production as soon as you possibly can, but I've yet to see anything in the game that suggests that the developers agree with this thinking.

[crystal dune]

Especially now that the first biochambers you do make will probably be dedicated to bacteria sifting

I think letting assemblers handle mashing early on is fine

How else would we even get nutrients to fuel the first biochambers

From spoilage only?

[stray wharf]

I imagine that the Biochamber will come with the Yumako mash->nutrients recipe. But to kickstart it, yes, you'd need to make half-spoiled nutrients.

[crystal dune]

Oh, right, I just remembered the original recipe screen leak

Spoilage is indeed the only pre-biochamber source of nutrients

[late sentinel]

what do you guess green cube is called

[viscid ferry]

Jelly-jelly?

[timid crescent]

Just jelly, surely

Nut jelly would be funny though

[stray wharf]

Jellynut mash?

[tardy quarry]

jelly

imagine the yumako mash is called yum yum

[tardy quarry]

its not like u can’t automate spoilage to nutrient process with assemblers. And it is actually more important that players get familiar with the spoilage version because that is one way how u can deal with spoilage

devs are surely into more enemy interactions in SA, but for those players who don’t like combat theres a no enemy option anyway where theres still nests but no enemy spawns

[worn vigil]

Will non enemy players be disgruntled that they have to destroy big clusters of passive spawners

[tardy quarry]

its just like trees and rocks except u need to shoot them

or perhaps chop them

[timid crescent]

or "mark them for deconstruction"

[tardy quarry]

I hope theres an artillery planner

u just area select enemy nests

[timid crescent]

I expect an artillery remote rework/update

similar to how we got the RTS controller

If it isn't in 2.0 It should be in 2.1, surely

I just want to select an area and have nests/worms marked until they're all gone

[stray wharf]

Considering that artillery no longer guarantee-ably one-shots nests, this seems likely.

[tardy quarry]

alternatively they can add artillery damage upgrades

[violet path]

that would be epic

and i kinda see it with the new enemies and biter buffs

[tardy quarry]

imagine u can use artillery to attack demolishers

[open abyss]

I will be disappointed if artillery isn't one of the best ways to deal with demolishers

[shell cape]

you probably can but i think you'd need a lot of artillery to actually kill one outright. what was it, 1500 regen per second? that is doable with enough cannons but it's not quick or cheap. artillery might be a way to get demolishers attention and attract them into a pre-prepared killing area though

[open abyss]

Artillery should be much easier to stack enough of than any other turret to burst the demolisher down quickly

From the safe distance as well

[tardy quarry]

they will be at least helpful, remember they can be as additions to your regular combat method

[timid crescent]

Thinking about it, being able to mark a target to be shot at until destroyed would be very useful for using artillery to kill demolishers

They're large and slow enough that just targetting the head would probably still have artillery hitting the body

[tardy quarry]

woah only one day before fff

and on Monday this channel will be gone

[timid crescent]

Send it off, good riddance I say!

I welcome the game's release

[sand saddle]

Damn. Last fff and we never heard about the

[tardy quarry]

my ear

[timid crescent]

No more Expansion speculations after monday

Ah yes, the Pepperbox ear

[sand saddle]

Pepperbox ear is kill

[tardy quarry]

I hope its Aquilo this week

[open abyss]

Fulgora enemies for sure

[timid crescent]

More QoL!

I'd be fine with anything tbh

[mint berry]

Maybe the ear has been scrapped like the brain boys

[timid crescent]

Nah, there's now way the Pepperbox ear was scrapped

That would be mean

[mint berry]

Indeed, I hope it's not scrapped

[open abyss]

What, you don't want quality ear?

[crystal dune]

We really are running out of fff topics...
Fulgora enemies (possibly sharing with Pepperbox ear) and the sussy Aquilo building are the only feasible ones left out of the stuff that we know might be coming

That's wild

I guess there also might be one more turret

[fallow flint]

indeed the devs did a good job of sharing both alot, and yet still leaving much up to interpretation

[violet path]

i really hope for aquilo building tmrw

they quite literally stated that they will share more on that in the fusion fff

[crystal dune]

And this thing

[tardy quarry]

‘will be covered later’

sounds like a promise

and tomorrow might be the last chance before everything spoils

[mint berry]

Aren't there many other things that they said that will be covered later? Must be after release, I suppose, for most of them at least.

[violet path]

seems like it would be the same building

im a hard believer that the coolant building isnt just a coolant building

[violet path]

and on the fusion images where you can see them very compressed the colors vaguely match with this one

[viscid ferry]

A lot of SA players have also said there's a ton we haven't seen yet, but of course we have no idea what those things could be

[violet path]

that sounds really cool

and fits the theme extremely well

guess we find out in less than a week

[open abyss]

Tomorrow for sure

[tardy quarry]

On Monday we will know everything

[weary widget]

hopefully you don't aggro 10 of them at once

I could see this being an issue with arty on gleba as well with stompers, having your defenses completely overwhelmed

[crystal dune]

I know, that's why I added that last "that we know might be coming" part

I was mainly referring to just fff coverage

[tardy quarry]

I kinda feel my ear will be a cherry on top addition to SA similar to spidertrons in 1.0

so wont be covered in fff

at least not before the release

[silk citrus]

your ear?

[tardy quarry]

yes my ear

[silk citrus]

cool thanks

[red crow]

Would guess the ear is just an add on u can have early on with a functionality like personal roboport without the need of bots

Would be great to have a possibility to place blueprints early on

[silk citrus]

I must have missed something. To me an ear is the thing on the side of your head that you use to hear sounds with

[crystal dune]

The right ear of Pepper's profile picture

It's a snippet of some new entity

That was seen a few times in various fffs

[silk citrus]

ahh that explains it - I have compact view with no profile pics visible

[winged pivot]

Maybe tomorrow is trailer day.
My reasoning is that the embargo ending will create a large influx of people looking for the game, going to the steam page and FFFs.
A proper steam page with a trailer might go a long way in boosting sales.

[stone cradle]

I'd also love a proper 2.0 changelog, but that could also wait for the next one

[viscid ferry]

the changelog will be like a book

[misty falcon]

Would you believe me if tmrw will be || ||?

[covert cipher]

it will be release postponement announcement

[misty falcon]

F in chat for those who took 2 week vacations

If that would be the case

[desert coral]

Gotta love when discord only shows that message lol

[tropic basin]

That makes sense. Trailer today and Aquilo introduction next week.
Rather than the other way around, like I expected.

[subtle summit]

I would also consider the space logistics (and its dev history) as a likely fff topic

[hearty aurora]

If we dont get Aquilo today we will learn about it from content creators

[tropic basin]

It certainly is something of mechanical relevance to us, so a likely FFF topic. Some of the platform - planet interaction has been covered before, so might not fill an entire FFF.
The trailer won't allow anything else to go into the FFF.

[hearty aurora]

it doesn't make sense to not talk about aquilo

[tropic basin]

I don't see how ... exactly.

[hearty aurora]

The embargo lifts on Monday right

Someone will talk about Aquilo as it is the only planet we have 0 info.

so either way we will know on Monday.

[tropic basin]

I suspect the request to not talk about Aquilo/endgame until release has been dropped as part of an FFF rescheduling.

[hearty aurora]

oh has it?

If that's the case then yeah u are right

[tropic basin]

yeah, LAN attendees can freely talk about everything on Monday.

[hearty aurora]

oh ok then someone will show/talk about Aquilo

on Monday

[tropic basin]

I can even speculate that the hypothetical FFF reschedule has been caused by risk management.

[hearty aurora]

possibly

[tropic basin]

I was a bit surprised when I heard the NDA would expire before the release. I think the idea behind it was that there's marketing buzz before release, to help create the "wave" Kovarex talks about in the czech interview held during the LAN party.
Then Wube realised this awkward situation is going to happen:

If we dont get Aquilo today we will learn about it from content creators
So they changed FFF plans, which allowed to drop the request to not talk about Aquilo.

[late sentinel]

I can't say why it changed (I don't know), but my personal theory is that it just wasn't realistic.

[hearty aurora]

So it did change.

[tropic basin]

the NDA*, yes
FFF plans, only Devs know
-# technically not the NDA, as the request wasn't part of it as far as I understand it

[late sentinel]

no you know wrong

[tropic basin]

eh, ok 😅
are you allowed to elaborate?

[late sentinel]

original one said 'don't talk about ...', then were told later 'nevermind'

[tropic basin]

so not talking about Aquilo/endgame after the 14th was part of the NDA?

[late sentinel]

correct

[tropic basin]

Why did everybody say it's a request by Wube and not legally binding?

[late sentinel]

maybe I didn't read mine well

It is at least mentioned in it

[tropic basin]

yeah, it doesn't matter much anyway. I was just curious. :)

[late sentinel]

Okay, it is both true.

"We ask you to refrain..." but written in the document

[timid crescent]

Turns out requests can be legally binding

[tropic basin]

not a lawyer, but "asking" means it's mandatory in an NDA imho

[late sentinel]

That's my interpretation and opinion too, but it's irrelevant now

[viscid ferry]

why would it be risk management?

[tropic basin]

Asking people to partially shut up has a higher risk of them saying something they shouldn't.
And you there's only one way to unilaterally alter an NDA.

(the risk of somebody spoiling Aquilo before Wube does)

[viscid ferry]

yeah that makes sense

[covert cipher]

Friday Facts #432 - Aquilo

[tawny snow]

the new years snow was actually real

[tardy quarry]

Aquilo wins

mechanics explaination in this fff as I expected yay

[tropic basin]

Reading the first section makes it clear why the super landfill comes from Aquilo.

or the remaining parts of the space platform that dropped you here
Trupen

[tropic basin]

8 modules slots wtf
my quality calculator now has to go through 5 times as many combinations to find the best module composition. 55 million for the cry-ogenic plant ..

[misty falcon]

A combination of quality and prod is probably prudent there

Think of the speed reductions though

[tropic basin]

It can only optimise material cost

also, isn't there a min speed for crafting machines?

[misty falcon]

Not that I know of. I only know of a min power consumption

[tropic basin]

8 prod mods: -20% crafting speed. turns your Cryogenic plant into a Recycler

[timid crescent]

You should test it

[restive linden]

I knew it

[tropic basin]

I predicted a 4th tier asteroid turret. I wished for a railgun.
I didn't expect it to be that big 🫣

[timid crescent]

I predict space enemies

(only kinda, just giga asteroids would do the same thing tbh)

[tropic basin]

pretty sure the front plating has

   FRONT
TOWARD ENEMY

written on it

[restive linden]

Doesn’t mean that there’s enemies

[tropic basin]

there's enemies in other places
and huge asteroids

[restive linden]

Speculation: successfully flying to aquilo is very hard, as there are those giant asteroids that you have little hope to stop from FFF 406. Rail gun is the way that these asteroids can be destroyed as they asked us at the end of this fff

[misty falcon]

The FFF mentioned getting to the planet with a beat up platform, that didn't even make it back 🙂

[tropic basin]

yeah, I also didn't expect the railgun to be on Aquilo
because we need it for safe passage

[restive linden]

Yeah I assume getting there is one of the big milestones of the planet

[tropic basin]

The way the question is framed, I'm starting to think huge asteroids is not the answer to Earendels question.

You don't unlock a weapon as massive as this to help you with clean up duty.

[tardy quarry]

I think its just huge asteroids

or something related to end game

giant wall at the edge of solar system

[tropic basin]

Huge asteroids isn't a solved problem at that point, but something you have gone through successfully to reach Aquilo.

[violet path]

[serene sage]

"successfully" might be a stretch, given what happened to the first space platform in the FFF

[sullen forge]

This assumes someone even made it to aquillo

[restive linden]

I think many people did

[tropic basin]

I know many people did

[misty falcon]

Many people did.

At the LAN about half the teams reached it

[tropic basin]

"Any landing you walk away from is a good landing
It's a great landing if you can use the plane again"

[timid crescent]

It's definitely been a while since the LAN as well

[serene sage]

and space platforms are 2d, so they are indeed planes

[tropic basin]

only we thing we need now is a landing

the asteroid successfully landed on the platform?

[misty falcon]

The asteroid successfully turned one platform into two

[covert cipher]

i wonder what chemical plant recipes can a cryogenic plant use

[tardy quarry]

most of them I guess

basically a replacement of chem plants in most situations

say plastics

sulfur

explosives

batteries

acid

[tropic basin]

I don't think it'll be a drop in replacement (ignoring the size diff)

[misty falcon]

In the FFF they mention and

[tardy quarry]

8 module slots is no joke

[tropic basin]

also I'm sorry about your arm
It wouldn't have been as awesome as Aquilo :/

[misty falcon]

Ear*

[tardy quarry]

well I didn’t expect it to be in an fff tbh

[misty falcon]

Maybe next week

[tropic basin]

that reminds me, I wanted to add the Cryo plant in my program

[tardy quarry]

and remember its said that u want the machine to pair with foundries and EMP

so it definitely do plastics for circuits

transporting coal is much better than transporting plastics with how much prod we can have

and with fluid 2.0 petroleum is not a big problem throughput wise

[tropic basin]

makes sense
I wanted to add 1 Coal -> 2 Plastic
but it's also double the stack size

[grand fox]

Can't wait to have to import tungsten rounds for the railgun!

[tardy quarry]

stack size doesn’t matter that much when its on belts

[grand fox]

"you wanted a deathworld planet, how about deathworld orbit"

[tardy quarry]

and there’s probably prod research for plastics

funny that with the best module u only need 10 levels of plastic prod to reach the +300% prod cap

that’s 1 coal for 8 plastics

kinda crazy

[tawny snow]

I may just go full coal trains and liquefy -> plastic on site if the cryochamber does cracking

+200% per step with is quite powerful

[tardy quarry]

would be crazy if it does

that sounds too broken tbh

perhaps crude oil and cracking is still left for refineries and chem plants

[tropic basin]

results are in
this is non-intermediates

[timid crescent]

I guess the question is what items can you actually make in the cryoplant?

[tawny snow]

and what items it takes, if I want quality holmium, I can just make whatever needs it on an 8 quality moduled cryochamber and then recycle it

[timid crescent]

If they're recyclable. It may not be an assembler recipe so no guaruntees

[tawny snow]

true

[weary widget]

hopefully it can craft plastic, that would be helpful on vulcanus if mass producing red circuits there while loaded with prod modules. having a cryochamber on a volcanic planet is a strange thought though

I'm sure its going to have some serious power consumption, more than the EMP/foundry for sure

[tawny snow]

assuming cryoplants can do liquefaction and cracking, if my numbers are right 10 coal nets 1027 petroleum gas, with max prod that's 411 plastic for 61.375 coal, compared to getting petroleum gas from elsewhere, where you would get 491 plastic for the same amount of coal, so an ~83% yield

[covert cipher]

will be more expensive compared to

at late game

[tardy quarry]

that’s kinda crazy

I think cryo plant will not replace refineries

[tropic basin]

focussed on recipes that need cold temperatures and a lot of precision
yeah, it doesn't look like a machine for low tech stuff

[tardy quarry]

low tech

[tawny snow]

I'm not expecting it to replace all oil infrastructure but it would be nice to have it help a little here and there to reduce demand

ok what if it improves barreling and you instead freeze the stuff and put it on belts and they spoil and when they spoil the stuff melts and you loose your fluids that would be nice

aquilo orbit seems quite intense, maybe once the railgun is researched asteroid mining becomes a viable strategy

[covert cipher]

i want asteroid mining and space megafactory

[tropic basin]

gotta wait until 21st

[tardy quarry]

the new fluid system pretty much makes that obsolete

u have unlimited fluid throughput within a local system

[tardy quarry]

someone will make a mod for that

well, SA is also a mod, technically.

[stray wharf]

Don't we already have that in SA?

[tropic basin]

maybe it's platform factories that abcd is after

[violet path]

we cant really mine asteroids

just shoot them down and collect parts

[stray wharf]

Potato potato.

[hybrid briar]

Drive me closer, I want to hit them with my sword grabby arms!

[violet path]

having asteroids big enough to place miners on would be pretty cool

[stray wharf]

Why? What does it matter how you extract resources from asteroids?

[violet path]

i just think it would be cool

no particular reason

[weary widget]

maybe if you can collect both iron and copper on your aquilo routes, it can craft LDS on the platform to drop it off, provided you ship plastic up there which I'm sure will be a lot lighter than the LDS itself

its definitely worth experimenting with

[tawny snow]

is much simpler tho, specially with the direct casting

and particularly nice for quality, as you only need plastic

[stray wharf]

Plastic on a space platform is going to be a bit hard to come by, but it's still doable if you can place an oil refinery and use basic liquefaction.

[shrewd citrus]

heck, just use the old liquefaction recipe

[stray wharf]

The one that uses steam? That's a bit hard to come by without a nuclear reactor.

Basic liquefaction only requires sulfuric acid.

[shrewd citrus]

you'll very likely have reactors in space

[stray wharf]

Sure, but at some point, you want to switch to fusion power.

Especially for a platform meant to feed Aquilo with raw materials.

Then again, it'd probably be better to dump the coal directly down to Aquilo and let them make plastic in-situ.

[shrewd citrus]

what's wrong with having a reactor just for steam?

1 reactor, 1 heat exchanger, all the steam you want

[stray wharf]

It takes up space and requires frequent trips to Nauvis to refuel it.

[shrewd citrus]

"frequent"

I'm also talking purely theoretically since I have no idea what the context of this is

obviously it's better to just ship the plastic anywhere than make it in-situ on the platform 😄

but if you somehow wanted a self-supporting factory in space to make LDS and red circuits, I'd rather go with nuclear powered regular coal liquefaction than the simple one

[tardy quarry]

perhaps u just ship lds and blue chips to Aquilo

say from Fulgora

lds has reasonable rocket capacity according to fff #426

[stray wharf]

I think LDS is going to be more scarce on Fulgora than people think. There's relatively little of it in scrap, and you need it to launch rockets to send out science, EMPs, and the like. If there is some extra, then yes, you can send it out. But its better to just source it from elsewhere.

[tardy quarry]

I think Fulgora bottleneck will be holmium tbh

[covert cipher]

3.33333 kg per item?

[tardy quarry]

I think weight is not the definition now

items are just defined by rocket capacity

rocket silo just calculate the approximate weight to show u

it’s actually more convenient for devs to tweak numbers this way

and also easier for us to calculate ratios

[covert cipher]

nice

is rocket capacity the same on every planets?

or is it moddable for each surface

[tardy quarry]

it’s probably the same

it doesn’t really add much to the game to have different rocket capacities on different planets

[covert cipher]

but i think it will make sense for modders

[tardy quarry]

it doesn’t nothing but making ratio calculation more tedious

[tardy quarry]

maybe

perhaps u can have rocket with capacity multipliers

or a planet with capacity multiplier

because gravity is not all that matters

pressure also matters

[covert cipher]

how does pressure matter?

[tardy quarry]

different amount of buoyancy

its much easier to go up in ocean than in air

even if the gravity is the same

[covert cipher]

launch rocket on ballon/submarines

[tardy quarry]

I mean its easier to move upward if u r deep in ocean

u can swim in ocean but not in air

[tardy quarry]

Aquilo solar: 0.6kw per panel

actually

600W

[tardy quarry]

I hope the landing pad centre act as a global radar within the solar system for signal transmission

[crystal dune]

I had to do it

Even though we are literally 2-3ish days away from getting access to the recipes anyway

[sullen forge]

Assuming people wrote that down

[grand fox]

I'm sure people will start wiki updates on Monday just from scouring streams and having nothing else to do

[crystal dune]

Prediction: Cryo plant can only do chemplant recipes with one fluid input

[misty falcon]

Why?

[crystal dune]

How would you distribute two different inputs across three

Disable the middle one?

[misty falcon]

That's a solved problem

Many buildings in the past in mods do that in some ways

[crystal dune]

Oh

I wasn’t aware

Well, it certainly would be neat if the cryo plant could do cracking and sulfur

[tardy quarry]

Ammonia + ice > ice platform

[tropic basin]

Don't even have to look at mods for that. Inputs are defined:

[tardy quarry]

bruh machines all have several kW of passive power drain

which u need a handful of solar panels to support on Aquilo

[tropic basin]

water is worth 10x as much now, burner devices work
might be a good idea to bring regular boilers
still need chemplants to separate ice from ammonia (and melt it)
might even bring a handful water barrels
reduce the kickstart phase as much as possible

or bring a nuclear reactor, it uses water more efficiently

[open abyss]

Skipping straight to heating towers is tempting

[tardy quarry]

keep in mind that both heat and power are required to kickstart things

heat only ensures things don’t freeze

u still need power to melt ice or unbarrel the water

[misty falcon]

heating towers with heat exchangers and turbines sounds like a good plan, because Aquilo doesn't have much room

And that uses water more efficiently

Of course nuclear is still denser due to neighbor bonuses, but that requires constant shipments

[tardy quarry]

no electric heater powered by fusion

[covert cipher]

any news about promethium, shattered planet and solar system edge?

[crystal dune]

The crowdin is all we have, and to my knowledge it hasn’t changed in any way in the past few hours

[crystal dune]

Huh… I guess I forgot. I could have sworn that basic oil had two inputs for crude and 3 outputs for gas

But it’s better this way anyway

[honest summit]

How does one "read" the crowdin stuff?

[open abyss]

#friday-facts pins

[honest summit]

ty

[tropic basin]

that makes me assume the heating tower is a trigger tech
I don't think boilers/turbines work when not heated by heat pipes first
resulting in a hen-egg problem unless something can provide heat without being heated itself

[covert cipher]

mine giant asteroid near the scattered planet for promethium to craft promethium science pack. go to the edge of solar system to win the game

[open abyss]

I hope you get a win before getting promethium

[tardy quarry]

heat tower is useful on Gleba as an incinerator, maybe its unlocked there

I mean burning fuel for heat doesn’t sounds like a very advanced tech that is delayed until the final planet

shattered planet seemslike post endgame content

and promethium science is the post endgame science

[tropic basin]

Heat tower feels like the secondary building of Aquilo.
It's a hybrid of boiler and nuclear steam production.

[open abyss]

Why is there so much focus on heat tower being useful on gleba when you already have recycler to do the same thing?

[tardy quarry]

recycler needs loop tho

not sure about the consumption rate

[tropic basin]

Heat tower probably has a lot of throughput when disposing of organics.

[crystal dune]

Or boilers+steam condensation, though this might be something of a meme strat I feel like

[open abyss]

Don't all recycling recipes have the same speed?

[tardy quarry]

no idea

[tropic basin]

me neither
would be bonkers for the slow recipes

[tardy quarry]

crazy that the new speedrun achievement is win the game in 40h

basically 5x the base game

[tropic basin]

"speed"

[tardy quarry]

well theres 5x the planets

[open abyss]

Either way, I wish you could unlock heat tower before aquilo, using it as an early alternative to nuclear sounds fun

[honest summit]

Doesn't it only go up to like, 30C?

[open abyss]

1000

[tardy quarry]

dev said 1000

[tropic basin]

30 °C is needed to unfreeze the buildings

[open abyss]

30 is building's thawing temp

Reaching 500+ with regular burnable fuels will take a while though

[crystal dune]

Ooh, wait… What if steam condensation only works on 500 degree steam 😳

[tropic basin]

that would be a weird limitation on a system that's built for continuous temperature use

[open abyss]

Didn't someone say steam condensation is vulcanus exclusive recipe

[crystal dune]

That would be acid neutralization

[open abyss]

Not sure why you'd need one without the other

[crystal dune]

You wouldn’t

[crystal dune]

But there is this funny strat

Which I guess may be kind of useful if you’ve gone to Vulcanus and Gleba, but not Fulgora yet

[misty falcon]

It means heat exchangers + turbines for uraniumless planets

I wonder if it's more efficient than boilers for power though? It's very much smaller because turbines are 6x times more effective than engines, but does it matter?

[tropic basin]

smaller, yes
more fuel efficient? I dunno
either is enough for some people to transition because efficiency

I had an idea. Even if Heat Towers have no temperature readout. Place a Nuclear Reactor next to your heater stack and stop fuel insertion to avoid waste.
Surely the immense cost of the reactor will pay itself back ... eventually.

[covert cipher]

we have recipe productivity research for

research
asteroid
scrap-recycling
processing-unit
steel-plate
low-density-structure
plastic-bar
rocket-fuel
rocket-part

[tropic basin]

Plastic will be funny. 1 Belt going in, 8 Belts going out

[covert cipher]

i like asteroid productivity for my gaint spaceplatform

[crystal dune]

Asteroid prod is an unexpected addition

Also, note the lack of agriculture prod

[misty falcon]

plastic and rocket fuel prod is agri prod, kinda

[crystal dune]

I would have expected them to either do both or neither

I wonder why they decided asteroids specifically needed it…

[tardy quarry]

so u have more resources to spend from limited asteroids?

[crystal dune]

But asteroids aren’t limited

[tardy quarry]

they are throughput wise

[crystal dune]

Oh, you know what, nevermind

I just remembered that travelling platforms need asteroids too

And those aren’t scaled infinitely

[tardy quarry]

its the same reason why u need prod for oil

[crystal dune]

And agriculture definitely is, especially now that we know about “overgrowth soil”

[fast night]

So.. where did yummy value go?

[crystal dune]

🪦

[tardy quarry]

where is my jelly yum

[tropic basin]

my prediction

research                 all 3, and/or Aquilo
asteroid                 Vulcanus
scrap-recycling          Fulgora
processing-unit          Fulgora
steel-plate              Nauvis
low-density-structure    Vulcanus
plastic-bar              Gleba
rocket-fuel              Gleba
rocket-part              all 3, and/or Aquilo

[stray wharf]

If they do require some off-world tech, I think it would likely be:

• Pre-space: Steel
• Space: Asteroid
• Vulcanus: LDS
• Fulgora: Scrap&blue circuits
• Gleba: Rocket Fuel&Plastic
• First-3: Rocket Part (pre-Aquilo)
• All: Labs

[tropic basin]

Kovarex mentioned months ago that none of the productivity researches require space science. It could have changed ofc

[misty falcon]

IIRC he said some do not even require space sciecne